I bought that book a couple of years ago and it worked like a miracle. I still hang from a bar any time I go to the gym before and after my workout to keep my shoulders in good shape. Bar hanging works far better than any other PT techniques or PRP shots I've tried. This stuff really works and you feel results within a week or two. That book is worth it's weight in gold! You don't have to hang with you feet off the ground. Just put your shoulders under as much tension as possible by grabbing the bar with your hands. Trust me, this works!
I appreciate this comment ... my next video coming out next week will cover a few more techniques and modifications to help too, so glad you are still hanging and moving well!
I have a torn supraspinatus and a tear at the musculotendinous junction. hope this helps bilateral evenness in reaching and being able to get equal ROM!,,
Have been hurting from shoulder impingement for 4 years, was advised surgery but thought it wasn’t the best option... came across your video tried and so far after trying it for 2 days it feels a lot better than before.. I have more range and regular activities do not hurt!! I am amazed at how simple this was and how quickly I saw results!! Not sure why physical therapist never recommended this? Feel like they would rather perform surgery and take your money!! Thank you so much Dave!
@@DaveReddy Thanks for checking Dave, I haven’t been hanging regularly after the first couple of weeks, and I am able to resume normal activities such as throwing a ball over the shoulder etc but every few weeks I feel a little tighter around the shoulder so I hang for a 20’ seconds and I feel better immediately. I feel like my muscle/something has gotten weaker from all these years of impingement. Do you recommend any stretches/exercises to slowly strengthen my shoulder?
@@nareshdhakan5912 Dude, check out this video where he shows you the shoulder exercises to do after you hang, believe me they will help to strengthen your shoulders they have done wonders for my shoulder strength.... ua-cam.com/video/hbFm9z_bvhM/v-deo.html
@@nareshdhakan5912 how are feeling now Naresh? I just started hanging and it instantly helps me relieve me of pain in the left shoulder. Just want to check it's long-term effects.
I worked for a electric motor company, lifting motors from 30 to 60 pounds, something more, for 8 to 10 hours a night. My shoulder felt like a really bad muscle cramp, up my neck, down my chest and back, and down my arm, or was just a really sharp pain in my shoulder. This pain was most of the night, every night, and even followed me home. Trying to lift my arm about shoulder high was hard to do, and I did not have full range of motion. And my company was no help in this matter. And I was like this for over 3 years (had been doing the job for maybe 8 years) living with sometimes incredible pain, until I was able to change jobs, but the pain was still there at times even when I was not lifting. I finally retired, and the pain lessened, but was still there when trying to do things. NOW, I have been doing these exercises for a few days now, and can already feel relief. Thank you.
Love it ... seems we can get temporary relief from basic range of motion and anti-inflammatory treatments, but this just seems to change the effected structures just enough to make the difference. Keep it up ... I worry that people with labrum tears are hanging too much, and so that is a red flag, and really just changes hanging technique and muscle engagement enough to support the joint, but when it is purely impingement of a rotator cuff tendon, hanging is pretty awesome. I appreciate the comment.
@@DaveReddy can i ask you if there is a test for labrum tear to get a better idea of what is causing my pain? im almost 21 years old, 2 months ago my friend pushed on my shoulder weird while fighting, i pushed him off me in a awkward position with my shoulder/arm bent behind my head, immediately felt pain, took it easy in the gym and pain dissapeared. went with a heavy shoulder workout few weeks later and boom i hurt it again, thing is i dont really have a limited range of motion, its just more of a constant, seemingly chronic now dull achey pain right in the back/side/top of the shoulder. been doing hanging but not consistently but now am, also band pull aparts but pain is still here :(, have a super physical hvac job and i really need to stay healthy any advice on my situation? god bless
Agree wholeheartedly, and I follow Dr Hirsch’s book religiously, to compliment other rehab exercises as I am in recovery day 114, from three fractures in surgical neck of my right humerus bone. Since adding the hanging method and light weights, I easily moved to full ROM to my great delight! Your video is spot on! Good job😉
I just bought Dr. Kirsch's book on hanging as I am suffering from a reoccurrence of frozen should in my left shoulder. Just happened upon this video and figured it was worth watching. And was it ever! Excellent explanation and demonstration of Dr. Kirsch's shoulder exercises! Thanks so much!
So glad to hear this ... did you begin in a modified position? I am going to shoot a follow up video today or tomorrow about modified versions of the hang - so did you have to begin with your arms less than completely overhead? Also, did you do the dumbbell exercises, or just the hanging? I appreciate the comment!
When I initially developed frozen shoulder 10-15 years ago I could barely raise my left hand above the horizontal. The technique I used back then was to stand in a hot shower and slowly walk my fingers up the shower wall. Happily this time around I have fairly good range of motion directly overhead and can reach the bar. The most restricted movement is when I attempt to raise my hands from my sides and touch them together over my head. In terms of my hanging technique I have severe rheumatoid arthritis which has caused the fingers of both hands to deform and grip strength is poor as well. Hanging from the bar seemed to really stress my fingers so I purchased a set of weight lifting hook cuffs. These work extremely well and after 3 sessions of five 1 minute hangs I am almost able to support my entire body weight (135 lbs) while hanging. I could detect significant improvement after the very first session, by the end of the second session range of motion had really improved and shoulder discomfort was greatly improved as well. I am really impressed with this technique!!!!!
I started hanging and the recommended exercises in Feb 2021. They resolved my (posture induced?) shoulder impingement in about 6 weeks. I had been suffering for two months prior, as it was painful when I tried to sleep. Thanks for the maintenance advice.
How's your posture? Typically this begins in the spine (what you call your posture), as our upper back is naturally pretty flexible, and we tend to flex forward chronically. This changes our shoulder blade mechanics and may lead to impingement ... if you cannot extend upright to a tall posture, your shoulder blade will sort of round further and not allow full flexion through your shoulder joint, so I imagine that is more or less what helped you out. Keep it up ... throw in some "snow angels", ideally on a high density foam roller 1-2x/day to help with this even more. I will cover that in part two of this video in a few weeks. I appreciate your comment!
@@DaveReddy It's been a year++, and I just wanted to say that my shoulder is still in good shape. I have followed your maintenance advice. I had the same issue ~9 years ago about my posture (as diagnosed from an ortho and PT). When Covid shut down my gym, I got lazy (welcome to the human race!), I again suffered the consequences of poor posture and lack of exercise.. I am very conscious about my posture when walking or sitting at the computer these days. Anyway, I just wanted to pass on my heartful thanks. (from a 72 yr old male).
Love it ... how is your upper back posture? Is your stiffness or pain mostly (or was it) mostly in your shoulder, or at all in your upper back and neck? If so, how does your neck and upper back feel? Regardless, I appreciate the comment, so glad you are feeling better.
i have had 3 years of shoulder pain due to tendonitis from gym (im 19 rn) physical therapy and band exercises didnt do much but hanging made most of my pain fade after like 2 months its so crazy. ty
Very, very, very, very, very, very helpful! Thank you very much! I got an impingement 6 months ago from practicing my volleyball serve (with really bad form, unfortunately) and have had PT on and off ever since. I've got a bar already in my house for pull ups, and it's the perfect height. Have started hanging just last week; I think it's helping. Working up hand grip strength will be a challenge, but, once developed, it's something I can also apply to other things such as dead lifting, where grip strength has been a limiting factor for me.
Been surfing for 40 years, started having tendinitis in my shoulders at about 19, (30 years ago,) I've tried this hanging from a doorway, and almost instantly it started feeling better! Shoulders only hurt when i surf, and as I've gotten older its harder and harder to do something i love.
Love to hear it ... how do you train for surfing, or do you just got out and surf as your exercise? Do you do any maintenance work or daily practice to feel good when surfing?
@@DaveReddy I don't train. Surfing has been my exercise, but I'm at an age where if I want to keep surfing that has to change. I bought some wall hangers and handle set, trying to figure out where to put them currently, but I think I'm going to start with just the shoulder stretches and exercises for now, and see what else I need from there. I have an active job, I'm on my feet all day so I could be in better shape, but I could be in a lot worse shape. ;) Thanks for your videos and response!
Thank you for this video. I had a bad proximal humerus break 4/2/21 along with an elbow break. I was stuck in a sling for almost 3 months. When I was finally ready to start PT and cleared it with my surgeon, I came across this book and, since then have been hanging at least twice a day. I hang 45 sec and rest 30 for either 6 or 12 reps. I never added the additional exercises from the book to my regimen but have been doing the exercises prescribed by my PT. I still lack some ROM in the shoulder and elbow,which my doc says may never improve, but as a 69yo woman, I won’t give up.
I love it Judy, great job. I am publishing a new video in the next week or two about some research I have done on this, along with some modifications and complementary exercises that may help you with your range of motion. Keep moving sister!!
@@DaveReddy thanks for the kudos. I read a few more comments and am finally going to add the light weights to my regimen. Can’t get my arm behind my back yet or comfortably touch the back of my head. Looking forward to more videos.
Hi, I have seen that in Rural India, people don't have shoulder pain.. Reason -They are using Plough to dig their fields... I tried it in my backyard..and yess..it worked...the jerk of digging the mud really releases the tightness in the shoulders...
Use it or lose it, I imagine if they are manually ploughing their fields, they are simply sitting less, changing positions more, dropping into a deep squat regularly, and generally expressing much more range of motion per joint overall. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.
I'm doing a LIVE video at 11 am central today to discuss whether to "hang loose" or "engage" your shoulders and hip muscles while hanging ... check it out ... "Hanging for Shoulder Pain Part 2 ...." Thanks for watching and please subscribe ... I will be posting more vides as the school year ramps back up this fall. - Dave
Hi again Dave. I just came back from the Doctors office where I met with a ortopedic surgeon. He told me I got a frozen shoulder and it can take up to 2 years to heal. I showed him the book and talked about hanging cure. He did not know anything about it. Can hanging also help cure a frozen shoulder faster? He gave me a hydrocortisone shot right into the shoulder socket. This is my day1 to full recovery and I want to make sure I do all the best training that I can to heal faster than 1 year from today if possible?
Just started doing the hang today, I had pain in the front of the shoulder and Trouble lifting the arm at 30 degrees (arc pain), also tightening with pain in the outer arm... outer bicep area. Right away I felt better from doing the hang. Will keep doing it this week to see how it goes
Keep me updated K C, listen to your body and keep your shoulders and abs engaged a bit to protect the area as you get comfortable hanging ... do you have a pull up bar, are you doing this at a gym or fitness center? Also maintain/restore mobility in your shoulder joint and girdle with some big fwd/bwd shoulder circles to help strengthen and mobilize the entire upper back. Hope it helps!! Dave
Brilliant explanation coverd the danger's for different people and the benefits of doing this are remarkable I've been hanging for only s few weeks and the difference is fantastic.
Awesome video. I just started today. Been having terrible pain in my shoulder for 6 months. I was only able to hold the bar and stretch with about 10% of my weight applied. It hurt so bad but felt so good afterward. It is exactly the problem you describe in the video when I move my arm straight overhead with stinging pain so I'm hoping this can heal my injury?
Possibly yes, the theory is to open up space in the impinged area to allow for movement and healing, also to encourage blood flow and other joint fluid "flow" to deliver nutrients required for healing. This is a tough spot in the shoulder, and surgery rarely helps, hence ideas such as hanging. UA-cam "wall slides" too, as another way to practice overhead reaching with the support of the wall which seems to help too. Then try lying on your back on the floor to do a "snow angel" and see how that treats you. These positions mobilize and lengthen the tissues and structures that lead to shoulder and neck pain. Eventually the goal is to hang for 10-30 seconds several times throughout the day as a type of maintenance. Good luck and I appreciate the comment.
@@DaveReddy Hi again Dave. I just came back from the Doctors office where I met with a ortopedic surgeon. He told me I got a frozen shoulder and it can take up to 2 years to heal. I showed him the book and talked about hanging cure. He did not know anything about it. Can hanging also help cure a frozen shoulder faster? He gave me a hydrocortisone shot right into the shoulder socket. This is my day1 to full recovery and I want to make sure I do all the best training that I can to heal faster than 1 year from today if possible?
I've been in pain for years. I damaged something in both shoulders 25 years ago from placing my hands too close on the incline bench press. I felt pain in both and it left my humerus loose in the sockets. So now I've had shoulder impingement for years. I started this hanging 6 weeks ago and its getting better especially after a hanging session. I figure it took years for my shoulders to get in this bad of shape so its going to take time to change. I was curious about how long it takes to reshape bone and ligaments. This is what I found. How long does it take to reshape bone? About 20% of all bone tissue is replaced annually by the remodeling process. There are five phases in the bone remodeling process: ACTIVATION, RESORPTION, REVERSAL, FORMATION, and QUIESCENCE. The total process takes about 4 to 8 months, and occurs continually throughout our lives. So I'm thinking it may take as long as 6 months. Any thoughts on this?
How are things going, your comment was from two months ago? I apologize for not replying sooner ... also google Wolfe's Law for an further explanation of tissue/bone remodeling. Your initial trauma is curious, I wonder if you just tore your capsule in both shoulder joints creating this instability? Are you still benching at all? And what pulling exercises are you doing? I am making another video soon, long overdue, about complementary exercises to do with hanging, and some strengthening exercises for the entire shoulder girdle (shoulder blades.)
@@DaveReddy I never had it checked out but I had pain in the front of my shoulders right off and if I did certain movements I would have the same pain and have to take anti-inflamatories. Last month Ive been sticking to doing rotator cuff exercises with bands mostly targeting the rear with external rotation exercises because i felt like the internal rotation muscles were a lot stronger and was part of my problem. They are feeling much more stable now with a small amount of inflamation in my left shoulder. It too is getting better. I'm also doing some upper body work but very light. Doing some hanging too. I think most rotator cuff work i am doing is working the infraspinatus muscle. I am benching but with light dumbells right now. Pulling exercises are low pulley rows light weight and holding the contraction a few seconds. Cable pull downs light weight medium grip holding the contraction for a few seconds. Thanks for the video and answering me.
Very cool ... it is a short read, it breaks down the anatomy with several xrays, and does include the dumbbell raises to the front and side that I only mention in the video. Tell me what you think, and how your shoulder is feeling after practicing hanging for a few weeks.
57 year old here- working out in my garage gym - moderate efforts in squats, dips, t bar rows - and biceps/triceps workouts for a few years. Got a power rack with a pull-up bar on the weekend so i tried to pullups - most of the time could not get 1 up even. Tried resistance bands - 1 set of 5 reps. While i was in the mood - i also had PB on t-rows and dips - did 10x dips for the `1st time. Then a few days later i'm out. I think im hit with some rotator cuffs issues on my ride side..lost a lot of strength in my right arm and shoulders - nearly couldn't military press an empty barbell up. A few days before the pain set in i thought my arms never felt so ripped - the skin felt stretched and tight. Then i lost strength and the pain at the front of the biceps and side of the deltoids.....woke up 1 night nearly crying.....I'm scared shitless now....can't tell exactly which exercise did it. My hunch could have been all that playing around the pull up bars....maybe it was too much for a 57 yo..could be my PB 10x dips.....was 100% painfree before the power rack weekend.
So sorry I didn't reply sooner, how are you doing today? I am 47 years old, and while I still train, I gave up dips probably in my mid-30's. Dips are awesome for strength and building mass, but they are rough on shoulders with 21st century posture. The head of the humerus, (upper arm bone) sites too far forward during the movement, and your biceps tendon often pays the price with a pretty mean shearing force tearing at it. I imagine that is what happened to you. The goal would be to work on keeping your horizontal, then vertical pulls strong, while building up your pressing strength again. I plan to make a few more follow up videos based on all of these questions and comments soon. How are you feeling today?
I had been having shoulder, neck and back pain for years that come and go. I been doing the hang about a week now at first I was able to hang for 15 to 20 seconds, now I can do a full minute easy for staters now and the pain just went away slowly and my grip is extra strong now.
It does Brenda, though start with modified hangs, meaning keep your feet on the floor with your torso diagonal as you "hang" with only some of your bodyweight pulling. Does that make sense? Osteoarthritis comes on for a few reasons, typically the bones are not positioned or patterning correctly during movement and that causes some excessive friction that leads to eventual grinding away of the healthy padding or cushioning of the cartilage, and this tissue just doesn't regenerate as we age leading to arthritis ("inflammation of the articulation between bones") Hanging may provide traction, separating the space a bit between the bones, and this can offer some relief. Listen to your body, pain does not equal gain, find an intensity level and range of motion that feels comfortable and as if providing relief, and progress from there. Has a doctor said you are bone on bone in both shoulders?
I have a shoulder slap tear. I work out every day. Started hanging yesterday. Should I stop working out until the pain goes away or is it okay for me to work out?
Hey Gene, so how is the hanging going? This is a tough as a SLAP tear directly influences the biceps tendon that runs up your arm and into your shoulder socket, so you want to stop with any pain running down into your front shoulder or biceps area. The theory with hanging is to change the structures causing pain and impingement, but with a torn labrum or capsule tissue, you may have compromised the structures you are essentially hanging from, so it may not be recommended. As I have stated in many of these comments, I am not a doctor but enjoy the conversation and explaining many of these things to people who are training … so experiment with what and how it feels. Having said that, if you are going to hang, remain engaged, don't just "hang on your meat" or dangle from the bar as to not overstretch or irritate the tear. Did you get an MRI to confirm the SLAP tear? Finally, you may find a modified version of the hang to be useful, meaning to hang at a diagonal, partially unloaded angle with your feet on the ground until you can work up to a full hang, if that makes sense. I plan to do a part 2 of the video as this exercise is apparently pretty popular, I will be following up soon with modified hanging options, and some foam rolling and mobility work to complement your hanging. Good luck and let me know how you are doing after a few days.
Did I directly answer your questions Gene? Should you stop "working out"? What does your workout consist of? No, you should never really completely stop - continue your mobility work, continue your squats, steps, and lunges, and practice rows - how does a horizontal row feel - a bentover dumbbell row or a seated/standing cable row feel? You probably still want to practice reaching overhead, but not in a loaded position, just to maintain the ROM and active mobility. What position hurts the most? Reaching straight up? Does it matter how your arm is rotated, meaning if you lift your arm leading with your pinky pointed at the ceiling, does this hurt more?
Hi Dave. Did you ever make the follow up video about modified hanging versions? I looked through your playlist but couldnt find it. So far I am unable to lift my bad arm up high enough to be able to do a vertical hang. Thanks.
I'm scared I really messed up my shoulder because of how I sleep. I can't lift my right arm. I feel a nasty pinch in my shoulder. I have no insurance. Should I still try hanging?
Sorry for the late reply ... sorry to hear about your situation. If you are working on this still on your own, begin with low level hanging, as in anything you can manage. Can you grab a door knob and slowly pull your hips and body away from it for 5-15 seconds? That is a place to begin to see what you can tolerate. Second question, how well can you lie on your back with your arms to the side like a snow angel? Either way, keep moving it ... continue shrugging your shoulders up and down, do shoulder rolls and circles, and move your shoulder blades often. This is key, your upper arm bone anchors into your shoulder blades, so keep your shoulder blades moving on your rib cage daily, and then slowly get into reaches and VERY LOW level hangs, and try to remain in a pain free range of motion.
What would be the recommended technique for performing these hangs ? Would you rather try to keep your shoulders engaged and squeeze your shoulder blades together? Or would you try to stretch as much as possible?
GREAT QUESTION, and one that is often discussed. You want to be engaged to the point you are not hanging by your ligaments and other non-contractile tissues, but still want to hang in such a way that your shoulders are flexing to 180 degrees, if possible. Unlike in a pull/chin up, the goal is not to engage our shoulder blades to help stabilize our shoulder girdle in order to perform the pull up, but rather to cause change in the shoulder joint structure. So you want to be mobile enough in the position to hang freely, but without depressing (reverse of shrug) or retracting (squeezing together) your shoulder blades excessively. You want to feel safe and supported, but still hanging, if that makes sense. When we squeeze our shoulder blades together, that often changes the position of the upper arm bone in the shoulder socket. Having said that, if you feel like you are feeling pain or can't comfortably get into that hanging position, then you may want to begin with a modified hang with your feet on the floor, knees bent. So hang, then perform a partial reverse shrug, just enough to feel engaged and in control of the hang, and then see how much you can hang during a 5 minute time period, resting and stretching your wrist and fingers between hangs. Does that all make sense? Thank you for the comment!!
Hey John, how are things going? Comments don't always rise to the top so I don't see them, but this is from 6 months ago? Have you been hanging? Doing modified hangs?
I think I hurt my shoulders from pull ups and push ups. I was told by an Orthopedic that I have “internal bruising” I went to physical therapist and hanging was never discussed. Hanging has really helped my shoulders and my back. At 57 yo this seems like a better exercise. Lol curious what your thoughts are.
Injuries are typically a perfect storm of activities or lack thereof, meaning 3 sets of 12 push ups after sitting hunched over a desk for a long 9 hour work day can bother your shoulders, the same goes for pull ups. Hanging is a per-requisite for pull ups, and probably for push ups too. The ability to dead hang, or hang slightly engaged through your shoulders and upper back should be reasonably comfortable, otherwise, you should probably lay off of your push ups that day. The older you get, the more joint mobility work you have to balance with your push ups and pull ups. You can get away with just those two exercises, you just have to appreciate the positions and the postures you are in most of the day. Does that make sense? I have talked to a few PT's about hanging, but they typically do not prescribe them unfortunately as it is not a modality or treatment covered by insurance. That is another story. Long answer and I am babbling, but question for you, have you simply hung with an overhand and shoulder width grip? How does that feel?
Hello sir . My shoulder feels good and my ROM also improves when i contract my shoulder blades backwards but when i loose them up ( frontward) i have impingement in my right shoulder , so what do u suggest
Thank you for the informative video. I am going to try hanging on a regular basis, I tried a bit before but I think my error was not activating the shoulder muscles while doing it which probably didn't help my shoulder irritation. I've been dealing with shoulder pain for over 3 years now. Had x-ray and ultrasound which didn't show much. Physio with months and months of exercises which has not done much. Saw chiropractor yesterday and he thinks I may have a labrum tear. My sports doctor signed me up to get an MRI (whenever that will be). If my elbow is straight, I can move my arm overhead or most directions with good mobility and low pain, but with elbow bent 90 and out in front of my body I can not get it up any higher than my belly button (so a movement such as lifting a kettle off the stove is painful and weak) it simply feels like my shoulder gets completely jammed.
I have been been doing the hanging exercises daily for the past week. I have also been doing the side lateral and front raises daily. Should I be doing those exercises every other day to give those muscles time to heal?
In order to fit in other exercises and schedule a well balanced routine, yes, I'd perform the exercises every other day. You really aren't doing enough work to damage muscle tissue with the lateral and front raises (as you might with more intense weight lifting), but if you are indeed causing change in the muscle and bony structures, as Dr. Kirsch theorizes, then yes, the rest won't hurt. Hanging can be done daily though, especially if you are deskbound at work, sitting most of the day. That forward head and shoulder posture can begin to wreak havoc on your shoulder mechanics, so hanging is one great way to "unglue your body" from that seated position. "Your body gets good at what you ask it to do most of the time", so asking it to hang every day is a good thing, even it just a modified hang from your door frame. A pull up bar is a nice investment though.
I have tear in my right tendon I developed that playing decades of tennis. Actually its not hurt when serving or do overhead activities but more like when turning my shoulder back. When hitting forehand and etc. I have mixed information about hanging from doctors and physics. Some say not do anything above shoulder height especially not hanging that makes tear more damage. But some said do hanging and external rotation exercise. Not sure what to believe.
I had surgery Feb. 4, 2021 (SLAP/Bicep Tenodesis). Shoulder is still extremely sore and weak, bicep is very weak. Been in therapy 8 weeks as well. Curious as to when it would be relatively safe to practice hanging. I think that would feel great! I still can't get my arm/shoulder straight up by itself and keep it there. Just lack the strength. Range of motion is getting a little better. Been a long, sleepless and painful journey. Thanks!
@@pixelkat1819 I have made great progress as far as getting my arm straight up, out to my side and in front of me. Strength has gotten much better, using dumbbells to strengthen biceps/triceps and bands for the shoulders. It is still sore and I'm still limited to some movements, especially trying to reach my right back pocket and lower back. I continue at home therapy every other day and can see a little progress weekly/monthly. I still have not tried to hang, I'll wait until I'm very confident I won't damage or re-injure it. I definitely don't want to go through this again. It has been life altering to say the least. I remember asking my doctor how long and when I would know it is healed and he commented you'll know when you can use it without thinking about it and it does not cause pain. I will at some point get into hanging, it's proven it works and if it keeps me away from another surgery I'll definitely continue to do it. Kind of long winded, but this is how it is going so far. Take care and best of luck.
@@michaele4468 Now at 17+ months and it is still improving. Been an extremely slow process. Range of motion and reach has increased as well. I am slowly, with very little body weight, hanging. Yes, feet on the floor, I'm not taking any chances on re-injuring myself. Def don't want to go through this again, but it is getting better. Baby steps, lol. Best of luck with yours.
I’m 63 and I hang 5 minutes a day in 4 or 5 sets. Upon searching dead hanging everyday apparently it’s not good for the shoulders. They say it can lead to overuse of the shoulders. What’s your thought?
Hey John ... "overuse" is a tricky word. If your car has 160K miles on it, does it struggle from overuse if repairs begin to add up? Or if your car axel gets bump off kilter just 3%, you probably wouldn't notice, but after driving 5,000 miles on it, you'd notice a problem on one of the affected tires. Is that overuse or was it just not moving well or compensating with each revolution? Not sure why the car analogy came to mind but I just hear this a lot when clients return from doctor office visits. Having said that, while hanging should be a near daily practice, I don't think 5 minutes is necessary. People seem to experience relief building up from 20 seconds a day to 3 minutes a day, but a maintenance/preventative routine may only require 30-90 seconds a day. Your body gets good what you ask it to do most of the time, so if you aren't good at hanging, practice just enough to improve it ...it's like learning a language and then speaking just enough to maintain the ability. I imagine there are a few more stubborn conditions such as a bone spur that may not respond as well, and that may result in what a doctor may call overuse. Listen to your body, more flexibility isn't always better, the bigger issue is often when one side of the body is quite different than the other, especially in the lower body as it causes several imbalanced gait and posture issues. Are you having any issues? Or just being proactive about your hanging practice? It's a great question ... I'd love to know if any of the commenters below found relief for a while but then did too much. When I sit down to my computer like this and work for an hour, I walk over and hang for 10-30 seconds to unglue that desk chair posture. Nothing much more than that, then when I actually train at some point during the say, I may hang a few different ways, build up to pull ups, or do some lying on my back practice to mimic hanging in a unloaded way. I will post a video soon on that ... Five Moves to Supplement your Hanging Practice (or "Get the Most Out of Your Hanging Practice." Hope that helps ...
Thank you so much for the video. I have what is believed to be a rotator cuff tear. I absolutely know the computer work and resulting bad posture and socket position are a part of the storm, along with ping pong, my new love. I have a fair amount of pain and I cannot get my right hand overhead. Do you recommend doing this in a modified version and working up to the full hang or should I hold off until my shoulder pain goes away?
Have you been diagnosed with a RC tear or just guessing from the symptoms? I would try a modified version of this protocol, and really listen to your body. If it feels sketchy, it probably is. I am going to shoot a video today or tomorrow about modified versions of this exercise using TRX straps, rings, Smith Machine, racked barbell, etc, along with a few brief videos from my phone on vacation next week as I will find places to hang there too;) I apologize for not replying sooner, it has been 3 weeks, have you had any relief?
nicely done. i see there are many related videos based on this book. it's said that other than trauma, most shoulder issues are impingement. what confuses me is that i have no problem raising my arms or any shoulder mobility. but when i do push ups, or chest presses of any kind, i sure get a twinge of pain in my right shoulder. right underneath the front of the shoulder muscle near the top. the harder i push, the worst the pain and about a year ago i had to stop chest exercises altogether for a while. very frustrating. do you think hanging is likely to be the remedy?
Hey James, great question and a common one unfortunately ... hanging won't hurt, but it sounds like you have some biceps tendonosis. The biceps muscle has two muscle "bellies", hence the "bi-" that therefore have two tendons that both attach up in the shoulder, one on a notch in the shoulder blade, the other runs straight up the upper arm and over the arm bone into the shoulder joint socket where you are describing. Impingement is typically a notch higher and a bit more to the outside, where as a bicep tendon pain is as you describe, and can be irritated by pressing exercises. If you grab your shoulder and "massage" the front of it with your thumb, is that where you are feeling the pain? Irritation and inflammation of a rotator cuff muscle tendon typically causes impingement symptoms, versus what you are describing. What is your upper body routine? If you are focusing on push ups, how often are you doing them? Push ups are those male/ego exercises that are great, but sometimes we focus on doing them every day, or try to hit our age with them, when in fact we need more rest between push up workouts or need to balance them out with "pulling' and "rowing" movements. Long reply, but does this all make sense?
@@DaveReddy it does. i do more pulling work than pressing and i only do resistance training twice a week (i'm 53). and i don't go heavy as possible, i take a lot of precautions. i'm now doing a deep dive and see there is lots of info on this potential injury that may be the issue. thanks for the direction.
Man Dave, I have Never seen such a detailed and thoughtful response to a comment!!! Totally Beautiful of you to take such time and care with your reflective response!! Thank you!!!
My problem is, I have a lot of pain when I try to move my shoulder into that position. Is this only viable when you don't have much pain while reaching out above your head? Or should you not care about the pain and just try it for a few days?
Hey Ozzy, it really depends on where you are, meaning, how long has it been like this? Many or most people who benefit from hanging begin hanging because traditional PT or other therapy haven't "worked", or they begin hanging when the pain is mild to uncomfortable but they can still reach over head. Does it hurt to get to that position but after you are there it subsides, or painful the entire time? Have you had it looked at? A doctor or therapist? Finally, are you using it often? Playing an overhead sport or doing manual labor?
@@DaveReddy Hi Dave, thanks for the response. It has been 6 months now, gradually got worse. Been taking physio for one month, not helping much. I can not raise my arm vertically and it doesn't subside in the vertical position. I can not properly hang on a straight vertical line, but I could hang in a slightly angular (30 degrees forward) position. I tried to hang on my feet for 4-5 secs, several times. I had moderate pain. I thought it was good enough and gradually I could do more. But then, in the night it got inflamed, and now after 2 days, still not good. Maybe I tore apart some things, I don't know.
I'm suffering from impingement for a year I'm starting this today every day 😕 can u please answer these questions? 🙏🏼🙏🏼 it will help me alot 🟡When doing the hanging, How wide should I place my hands 🟡Which approach is better : 1- hang then while resting doing front raises, then hang and while resting again doing Lateral raises.... Ect to the end of 15 minutes Or 2- hanging for 15-20 minutes, then doing the raise exercises 🟡While hanging, is it ok to tight the abs? Or i need to loose the core 🟡Will this method help removing the scar tissue? Thanks ♥️
GRIP SPACING. The closer you have your hands on the bar, the more your shoulder joints will potentially impinge, so be aware of this, and then vary the distance. Shoulder width/arms vertical should be fine, and you may find yourself being able to inch them closer as time passes. APPROACH #1 or #2. I like approach #1 as you describe it more, as it is more time efficient. Dr. Kirsch recommends a longer protocol in the book, but I like "supersetting" the hanging with the dumbbell raises so whether you get 3 minutes or 15 minutes total, you are getting both exercises. The best exercise is the one that you will do, so any duration is great, and some days you may have more time than others. TIGHTEN CORE. This is the million dollar question with hanging. You do not want to "hang on your meat", meaning you don't want to dangle by your soft tissues and ligaments, you want to remain engaged in your abdominal muscles and keep your shoulder blades engaged too, if that makes sense, so you feel a sense of control. Do a complete "loose" hang, then slightly pull your shoulder blades down away from your ears just enough to feel your shoulder girdle engaged. Concerning your "core" or "abs", slightly tuck your tail to keep your pelvis in a relatively neutral position, and to help lengthen your spine. The traction you get from hanging helps globally, not just in the shoulder joint. SCAR TISSUE. In theory, Dr. Kirsch believes that your CA ligament and the hook/acromium process of the shoulder blade will change shape just enough to allow for more space within the joint. Therefore it is tough to say whether you are changing the scar tissue or just making more room for it. That being said, exercise and physical activity are beneficial for regeneration purposes, the more you can safely stress the body and signal the regeneration and remodeling of muscles and tissues the better. This is a big reason we exercise in the first place. We'd like to think that if you are stressing tissues closer to and around scar tissue, that it will be part of what is removed and replaced with new tissue. I hope that helps ... good luck!!
So do you just hang? Absolutely relaxed? You're not pulling up in the slightest? I've tried this, but I wasn't relaxed; I felt if I totally relaxed I might pull a muscle or especially a ligament or tendon. So I pulled myself up, but only about 1/2 an inch, so that the muscles would get a workout too. What say you? PS- I had no shoulder pain before I began. Another web site suggested that one "shrug" the shoulders, which to me seems to mean to pull up slightly, isn't that what "shrug" would mean in this context? Thanks.
Great question and two quick replies are (1) feel out a relaxed hang but only in a modified, standing position, meaning using a Smith machine bar or gymnastics rings, or simply stand on a box and just soften your knees as to allow for most but not all of your bodyweight can handle the stress. "If it feels sketchy, it probably is", to your point about feeling like something may tear. (2) As you mentioned also, slightly engage your shoulder girdle (your shoulder blade/rib cage "joint") to support your shoulder, and to perform a nice isometric strengthening movement for your mid to lower traps. It is actually a reverse shrug, meaning a regular shrug is where you elevate your shoulders, but a reverse shrug is when you draw your shoulders down (depress your shoulder blades) while under load. Hope that makes sense.
@@DaveReddy - Thank you for replying. There's hardly any difference between pulling yourself up half an inch or pulling your shoulders down... but there is SOME difference... I'm going to explore this some more, this is very interesting, thanks again!
@@DaveReddy - No live Thursday July 28th appearance, huh? What was it, stage fright? The dog ate your script? Too bad; there I was: all dressed up and nothing to see... sigh...anyway, thanks for commenting.
@@TaichiStraightlife Wow, this is an impressive comment, actually, it takes me 30-60 minutes to set up a live stream and it went OK I think. ua-cam.com/video/1XglkxJEQh4/v-deo.html
So I’m on a wait list for shoulder replacement surgery after a semi rollover accident last November, osteoarthritis no cartilage I’m told . I’d like to try for pain relief and avoid surgery, any one with this worked for who was supposed have this surgery?
The bar isn't high enough for me to hang so I have to bend my knees instead and I wish somebody would show the exact position for that. It seems the videos are always cut off at the waist or at least not low enough to show the legs. If somebody has a link to refer to I would appreciate it
I got diagnosed with sub-acromial bursitis (ultrasound) but overhead movement doesn't bother me at all. However I cannot flat benchpress, pushup, etc without the left shoulder feeling unstable during and flaring up after those movements. Would hanging benefit me?
My calisthenic coach always tells us to engage the scapulas before we do pull-ups or muscle ups. Do you tell your patients to engage their scapula before hanging from the bar?
Great video.. thank you!! I did something to my shoulder while doing dumbbell flies for chest and now it hurts when I raise my arm past 45 degree angle. Going to try the hanging method recovery.
Dumbbell flies can be rough on your shoulder joint, as the weight it takes for them to be effective in strengthening your pec major muscles is usually too much sheering force on your anterior shoulder tendons - namely your biceps tendon. Flies also force your rotator cuff to work (mostly to stabilize your shoulder joint) while being stretched quite a bit which isn't ideal. A muscle is not in an optimal state of strength when stretched too far, therefore when you get that big stretch with your flies, you are compromising the force production and stability of your shoulder joint. If you want to stick with flies, I'd do cable flies to allow your shoulder blades to move a bit more during the exercise which reduces the stress on the front of your shoulder, and stick with dumbbell presses at different bench angles with varying tempos and stretch (or depth of each rep), if that makes sense. You just need consistent reps with a decent amount of weight to build or maintain your chest if that is your goal. I recommend hanging though regardless, especially if you also tend to work at a desk during the day - hanging is a great way to prepare for upper body workouts (especially pressing movements.)
I was diagnosed with should impingement, but my biceps also hurt. I was told that's because of impingement as well. Is this true? Can this shoulder hanging exercises help both?
i have torn my rotor cup 80 % they also call it frozen shoulder.. my surgeon said to watch you and might help. as i been going for physiotherapy for 8 months now and still no improvement as i had an injection of cortisone and that has helped for about a month now it is strating to become sore again . would like to get it operated on so i can get back to life.
Hey Eldin, your "surgeon said to watch you and might help" meaning trying hanging? You know your body best, though research continues to support the idea of non-invasive (non-surgical) rotator cuff pathology solutions. How old are you? Be sure to ask any surgeon willing to operate what his or her expectations are from the surgery, as I have had clients with multiple RC surgeries and are still struggling with instability. Frozen shoulder is a little different, and typically results from not moving the joint due to pain, and "your body gets good at what you ask it to do most of the time", if you hold your arm at your side, that is all it will want to do. Last question, your therapist has help you with your core strength, your shoulder girdle (shoulder blade stability and control) and your shoulder joint external rotation? I hope that with 8 months of working with him or her, you understand that question. Your discernment in this case will depend on your desired results - do you hope to just sleep better? Work over head? Throw a baseball or serve a volleyball?
In the book it talks about the possible permanent disability caused by having subacromial decompression surgery. I had this procedure back at the end of July. Nobody has been paying much attention to the fact that I have scapular dysfunction, and this is the primary reason I've had issues. Will I still be able to do passive hanging or will my shoulder be too far gone now? Is there a safe way to find out if I can start hanging?
Don't know why your comment didn't show in my feed months ago, how are things going? Your issue is common unfortunately, doctors and therapists do not traditionally assess the shoulder girdle (the shoulder blades relationship with the rib cage) and the muscles and movements associated. So scapular movement dysfunction and winging cause many issues in the shoulder joint and elbow that are treating at the place of pain versus the source. So I would still recommend modified hanging as tolerated, but to UA-cam serratus anterior muscle activation/exercises, and other scapular control movements. Performing inverted rows and modified push-ups mindfully with full scapular movement can also help depending on the overall health of your upper body.
@@DaveReddy I think I didn't actually have subacromial decompression done. Based on carefully reading the details of the surgery and conversing with my surgeon, it looks like he cleaned up a tiny bit of fraying on the labrum and got rid of the cyst that developed in that area, and then loosed the the middle and lower ligament in the shoulder. So it's not looking like anything crucial for function was removed. However, the original pain is still in the front of the shoulder so I have a feeling something may have been over looked. Before I had this surgery I had a previous visit with a specialist who reviewed my MRI, and he claimed I had biceps tendonitis. That matches up with the symptoms I feel regularly. I'm scheduled for another MRI on December 15th so hopefully that will help figure out what's going on, because once again another specialist seems confused and is guessing tight shoulders/ adhesive capsulitis. I'm banking on it being the bicep tendon, and if it is that or just tightness in general do you think it'd be safe to slowly start easing into hanging?
@@exothermic8525 Halfway through your comment I was thinking it could be bicep tendonitis. Tendonitis seems to need to run its course regardless of what treatments we throw at it ... are you training regularly, or doing manual labor that continues to aggravate it? And yes, to answer your question, I would do some level, or angled hanging with your feet on the floor, but also work in some chest opening exercises, things like lying on your back with your arms out to the side, palms up for 60 seconds. Can you tolerate that? When that biceps tendon gets inflamed, it tends to slip out of its groove (or track) and continue to experience friction, so you may want to stay away from overhead movements and biceps curls, at least reduce your weights used. Do you have a foam roller by chance? I can post a new video with a few floor exercises to optimize your hanging.
@@DaveReddy I've taken a substantial amount of time off from using it regularly. Over the past 4-5 years I've had to put a halt on virtually all upper body training. The last time I was using my upper body regularly was during rehab after the shoulder surgery (July 2021), but the PT kept irritating my shoulder so my surgeon ended the therapy, and they most likely kept irritating it because they were hyper focused on improving ROM and weren't paying attention to anything else outside of what was done in surgery. I'm a personal trainer at a gym so I don't really need to do a lot of physically strenuous activity, and sadly that's playing into my job situation which means I can't demonstrate exercises. On the positive side I have a free membership and access to all of the facilities equipment pretty much 24/7. I also have stuff at home, and that includes a pull-up stand and other various tools that have been made popular by the Knees Over Toes Guy. And yes I have a regular foam roller and one of the long ones.
@@DaveReddy and to add, I used to do an exercise with the foam roller, where I laid on it face up with my arms out to the side to stretch out the pecs, but I could only barely get to the 90 degree position before I felt discomfort in that usual spot.
It can if the reason for your winging scapula is weakness in your shoulder girdle. Your shoulder girdle muscles (traps, rhomboids, serratus anterior mostly in your case and pec minor) all play a part in stabilizing and controlling the shoulder blades when moving, throwing, pressing, pulling, etc. So if you hang and engage those muscles, and improve your strength while hanging , and practice reverse shrugs, it certainly won't hurt. If your problem is serious, and involves some issue with your long thoracic nerve, then it is hard to say. When do you feel your winging scapula, or what movements cause you to feel the instability the most?
Will this help with lateral shoulder abduction? Ive given up on over head pressing but even doing static holds at 60 degrees for lateral raises irritates my shoulder. There's no injury to my shoulder just instability
What about joint degeneration disease throughout my body? There is not that much room in my joints and the shoulder joint is pressing on a tendon and anything else that passes through the shoulder joint.
Hey man thanks for the video. I've been working out on top of climbing trees for a living for 15years. I'm 33 but I did something along the line an my shoulder hasn't been the same since. Some days it goes from my shoulder all the way into my elbow an some days it's jus my elbow that hurts. Some mornings I wake up an can't move my shoulder for the first 5minutes when I wake up because it's numb. I've been hanging an doing light workouts plus the whole work thing still. What could be the cause of this? I've read about rotar cuffs,shoulder inpigment,elbows an still just am not sure where to start. Any input would be great. Thanks for your time boss
Hey Chad, how is your shoulder doing today? The "kinetic chain" you describe begins with the spine and rib cage, then the shoulder blade sits on the back of the rib cage, and your upper arm bone fits into the socket of the shoulder blade. When anything along that chain is out of whack, you typically feel it up or down stream. So if your shoulder blade is not moving correctly, the same side shoulder and elbow may bark at you, and the numbness may be a sign of a nerve being impinged. ELBOW PAIN. Is this on the inside (closer to your body) or the outside of your elbow? Anything in the arm pit area? WORKOUTS. What does a typical workout consist of? Are you doing as many pulls as presses, rather, are you pulling your shoulders and arms back into a good, chest opening position as you are doing push ups which tend to close up your chest and round you forward? AGE. Everyone ages differently, but I know it can be the early 30's that workouts beginning changing for people, especially if hobbies or work days tend to be pretty physical. You may need more mobility work to maintain working out with your daily climbing. I hit the wall around 30 years old when my body told me I couldn't body build AND play basketball competitively 3/week. MOBILITY DRILL. How does it feel for you to lie on your back, flat on a regular floor and no pillow, arms out to the side, palms up for 2-5 minutes? Are your shoulders, head, elbows and hands all on the floor comfortably? Does anything go numb while doing so?
I have an unusual question but do you know what can cause shoulder pain when trying to do pull-ups from an "L-Sit: position? pain only occurs at the very start of the rep and feels like there's a "barrier" or "wall" in my shoulder.
Henrique, great question and super tough exercise. How does it feel with a regular pull up? The key is what is going on with your ribs and posture at the beginning of your movement. If you compensate or generate strength by rounding your shoulders forward, or adjusting your neck out of good position, this may be creating that "wall" you are describing. Are you actually performing a pull up with your hips flexed to 90 degrees? I appreciate the question and look forward to hearing more.
@@DaveReddy I am pretty comfortable with regular pull ups, able to do 3x8 as of now (aiming for 3x10) and I also do a lot of scapula shrugs in a regular pull-up position for scapula/shoulder health. I tend to keep my grip shoulder wide and make sure I lean back at the top to maximize back engagement. I also switched my training style to focus on calisthenics so since November there has been more of an emphasis on pull-ups in my training. When I am in the L-sit position, it feels a lot weaker so I may be compensating by using more shoulders and leaning forwards. perhaps I should work on scapula shrugs in the L sit position before pull-ups? I also try to do my L-sit pull ups the same way as regular pull ups. I engage my scapula, make sure everything is tight but I feel discomfort in my shoulder when I engage in the pull.
Hi, I probably have a tendinosis in a rotator cuff. Is this a good exercise or should I not do this? It hurts a little bit, score 3/10 but as soon as I let go it feels good. Second point, I have some pain in the left lats after doing this. Could this overstretch the lats to hang with full weight?
Tendinosis in the RC or the biceps tendon? Do you feel pain in the front of your shoulder running down, or around your lateral deltoid and down the side of you shoulder? The latter is usually a symptom of a crabby RC tendon. And yes, this is part of Dr. Kirsch's theory, that is your supraspinatus RC tendon is inflamed and impinging under your acromial process, you may be able to stretch the ligamentous arch out a bit to make more room for it as it heals up, though if it feels sketchy, it probably is. You can go with a little irritation, but if you brain senses too much pain, you will create a pain cycle or pattern you could do without especially in an overhead position. You could work up to a total vertical hang by modifying it to a partially unloaded diagonal hang, or hanging with bands to lighten your total bodyweight load. Second point answer - if hanging for the first time, you may have also been contracting your lats eccentrically to control the hang and decent, and isometrically which you may be sore from. That would be natural. Is or was the lat pain specific or more of a good sore? I also do snow angels on the floor between hangs. I plan to shoot part two of this video to discuss more of these questions. I'm no doctor, but have been working with post-rehab and people who have not experiencing great results from conventional rehab for decades, so I enjoy the conversation mostly, and hope to help some people. I am always working on tweaking these things myself to maintain my mobility as long as possible. What is GarageGymBro's? Maybe we can hook up for a live event, do some Q&A, talk some shop?
@@DaveReddy thanks. I think I found the problem. Have the symptoms of a SLAP tear. That's why it was so difficult to find. I now just have an RMI made through the doctor. I give an update when i have done the MRI.
Sure, are you hanging at all? Even modified hangs? Even a modified hang with finger tips one a door way frame counts and can help for stiff shoulders. You don't want to love overhead reaching ability as shoulder and neck pain often follows. Good luck ... I appreciate your comment.
This is key ... I will cover this in a follow up video. Your shoulder health begins in the spine (core, mobility), then to the rib cage (breathing mechanics), and THEN to the scapular-thoracic joint, which is how your scapular lay on your rib cage and move accordingly. Your ribs anchor to your scapulae, and your upper arm bones anchor into your shoulder blades (scapulae), so this is key, as there is a rhythm or ratio of movement between how your shoulder blades rotate and move up and down, in and out, and how your arm bone moves within your shoulder blades. You don't want to hang in such a way that you are just dangling from your rib cage, you want to remain in a slightly shrugged position while hanging, and then I like to superset hanging with snow angels on a longitudinal high density foam roller to massage trigger points and tightness throughout my shoulder blade muscles, if that all makes sense. This hanging theory by Dr. Kirsch just addresses the shoulder joint, but all PT's and movement specialists must also address the motor control and strength of the scapulae. So doing bat wings, tree huggers, hanging reverse shrugs, etc are all great shoulder blade exercises. Hope that helps and thank you for commenting.
mine hurts when i lift weights in front of me and above my head what could it be? i hang a lot do pullups often im pretty fit but i did not managed to get to the bottom of it
Hey Sile, what do you mean by "lift weights in front of you?" Your biceps tendon can become inflamed and give you trouble when doing push-ups and some overhead moves, that might just mean lightening the weights a bit and focusing on full range of motion unloaded movements for a few days or weeks. Do you mean push-ups? Are you mixing your grip up with your hangs .... wide, narrow, underhand? Then also make sure you are doing full range of motion pull-ups, many guys I work with stop short at the bottom, or are bouncing into each rep. When my shoulders are achy, I will do dead hangs between reps. One more thing, are you doing horiztonal pulling movements, such as inverted rows or dumbbell rows?
@@DaveReddy hi, my usual workout consist in doing inverted rows, pullups chest to bar, ring dips and push ups and some kettlebell stuff like cleans presses. My shoulder pain occurs for example when i simulate a barbell overhead press with no weights and no bar, going from bottom to top but in a slight circular motion it hurts, also i noticed it when i changed the wheels of my car when i grabbed the wheel by the sides and i lifted it in front of me i could feel my achy shoulder weak. Is hanging gonna help? i noticed when i deadhang without the shoulderblades engaged the problem shoulder is hurting a little.
Hi Dave - Great video. I love the shoulder warm up you recommended in your other video as well. I bought Dr. Kirsch's book. Would you recommend doing the dumbbell exercises every day or every other day? hanging every day makes sense, but unsure about lifting every day. Thanks
My wife has shoulder impingement she can't raise her arm more than 70'degrees We tried to do this and not only she could not do it but she woke up with more pain 😢 Nothing is helping her Is very frustrating !
I hate to hear it ... shoulder replacements are typically performed when someone can no longer sleep comfortably, if at all, due to shoulder pain, though people, similar to your wife, live for months if not years with shoulder pain. When she raises her arm and is nearing 70 degrees, does she immediately shrug her shoulders too to compensate? Also, if she lies on her back and does a similar movement, doing a snow angel type movement, does she feel as much pain and discomfort? Also, has she only been diagnosed with shoulder impingement or an actual rotator cuff tear? Typically it is the supraspinatus that tears and inflames causing the pain. Can she do modified hangs? So that her shoulder it just below the pain threshold or angle? A few questions there, but I am always hoping to help in some way and curious as to if modified hangs can help too.
My Orthopedist said there is very little cartilage between my shoulder connections and I will need a replacement shortly. I play golf three times a week with no pain during, but aches after. I’ve been doing shoulder hangs, maybe 50% weight only about 15 seconds twice daily. Also been doing strength training, not reaching above my head, for a couple months. Noticeable improvement. I can feel movement, clicking, popping in my L shoulder. I tore my rotator cuff years ago. I ordered the book. Will go to a longer hang, more often. Your thoughts? Thanks for the info!
Hey Peter ... my first thought is to hold off on your replacement as long as possible, medical technology is only getting better, so every year or three you hold off, the better the eventual procedure will be. People typically get replacements because they can no longer sleep comfortably if at all due to shoulder pain. So when you are golfing 1x/week in pain, and it bothers your shoulder plus you can no longer sleep at night, then you'd be close to getting a replacement. Your "strength training" it involves rowing and horizontal pulling movements? Do you do home exercises or go to a gym? I might do a video today what pulling/rowing exercises are best to complement hanging. Stick with the 50% hangs also, most of my clients over 60 do modified or partial bodyweight hangs, though a few do full hangs.
Thanks! I bought the book. Unbelievable discovery. I appreciate your additional exercises and approaches. This is the most optimistic I’ve felt about shoulder problems in years.
They would be and often are, though I am 6'5" so it's tough to find a high bar. You want to stick with the intensity that is appropriate for you, ebbing and flowing between how relaxing versus tensed up you are to stabilize and support the hang, and feeling out how much of your bodyweight you can withstand. Ideally you'd begin with both feet on the floor and just allow your knees to go limp so you are hanging, if that makes sense, and progress up to a full hang for 10-30 seconds at a time up to 2-5 minutes a day. Hope that helps!!
The short answer is to give it a try, but modify it by either not hanging with your entire body weight or by "hanging" but with your shoulder at an angle. If you hands are at your side, your shoulders at 0 degrees, walking with your arms straight out in front of you like Frankenstein, 90 degrees. The question for you then is whether you can get to a tolerable, safe, but still effective space when hanging with your shoulders at 120, 140, 160, or 180 degrees? (180 degrees is your arms straight up over head.) Bone spurs and calcifications are like calluses, they are there for a reason and protecting the area they are forming due to some sort of irritation. The theory behind hanging in your case is it to open up space around that inflamed, calcified rotator cuff tendon so it has room to breathe and heal. If it feels sketchy, it probably is, so avoid too sharp of a pain, but if you have tried regular physical therapy, or have done inflammatory modalities like ultrasound, over the counter pain killers, or even a cortisone injection and your doc is talking about surgery, I'd definitely try some consistent hanging for a week to see. Dr. Kirsch is a surgeon, he has seen some pretty bad shoulders improve over the course of a week or two, and only get better with a maintenance routine. Our goal is to facilitate healing and change in our body, our body is amazing like that, so anything we can do to encourage this healing, versus using drugs or a knife is always recommended. You may have to be patient during the initial 20 seconds or even a few days, and I imagine you will experience some improvement, but every shoulder is different. Hope that helps ... good luck and let me know how it goes. The other part of the protocol is to do shoulder raises or "presses", as if you were pressing up and holding the ceiling up overhead. Do 10-20 of those each time you hang too, and see how that goes. I will leave you with that for now.
Would this be suitable if the long head of the bicep tendon is being impinged? Or would hanging cause the tendon to be abraded and possibly torn through by the acromion? Obviously don't want to worsen anything that may be damaged already. Thanks :)
Hung for about 1year, no improvement, I was up to 60 seconds working through the pain. Did PEMP, Shock Therapy, PROLO, Trigenics, etc. etc. Nothing worked. Both shoulders frozen . Any ideas!
No fun James, I am sorry to hear it. The shoulder is crazy complex … when you say "frozen", are you shoulders at your sides more or less? How high can you raise them? How about lying on your back on the floor? Can you do a snow angle or reach high overhead with the load of your spine and shoulder muscles in an upright position? How does that feel?
A few questions and I can comment with something fruitful I hope ... how well does your "back doc" know your back? Is your back doc a DC or MD? What makes him a back doc? Does he do pain management, epidurals, adjustments, or surgeries on patients backs? Does he exercise and is he in good shape him or herself? One reason I ask is because many doctors are trained in biochemistry, pharmacology, and pathology, thus, know little to nothing about exercise, kinesiology and functional anatomy outside of a first year medical school weed out class, and I say this from talking to many doctors I have had as clients. Let me know ... is your shoulder AND back bothering you?
@@DaveReddy He's one of the top joint doctors in NYC. He helps me with my back and shoulder issues. He said NOT to do any hanging until six weeks have passed since my minor injury. But I think a lot of surgeons don't really know much about physical therapy, you know? All they seem to know about is how to cut up a person so that they can profit from their medical degrees. That's why I contacted you. Any thoughts about this would be greatly appreciated, because my healing isn't going very well doing my usual shoulder stretches.
@@tiffsaver I agree and appreciate your perspective, doctor's and even too many physical therapists do not get in the gyms themselves to understand how exercise and loading the body orthopedically or biomechanically can be so beneficial, there fix as you mention is typically a knife or a drug. So what is your "minor injury"? Regardless, you can always begin hanging in a modified and mindful way, meaning listen to your body, if it feels sketchy, it probably is, and you can keep your feet on the floor and work up to doing a 100% bodyweight hang. There are modifications to try first. There should be a link at the end of this video with "Part 2" where I talk about modified versions and if/when to contract your shoulder girdle and low back/core muscles to protect these areas when hanging. Do you have a shoulder issue that isn't going away?
@@DaveReddy Thanks for gettin' back Dave, I appreciate it. I have some shoulder pain from a couple of weeks ago when I helped a friend move, but nothing serious. To be honest, I don't trust most doctors, particularly surgeons. If you go to a physical therapist, they can't make any money, so just do the math!! When it comes to any kind of physical therapy, I ALWAYS listen to my body, first. If it hurts too much, I automatically STOP. But I just got through hanging from my bedroom door (I don't have a bar, so I just grab the top of the door and support most of my body weight by just bending my knees), and there was absolutely zero pain. I'm going to take your advice my friend, and start listening to good folks like you.
@@DaveReddy Doctors know even LESS about nutrition. In their entire medical education, they only receive around two weeks on the subject. The typical German Shepard knows more about healthy eating than they do. It's a tragedy, all designed by the medical industry, who prefer selling drugs to actually promoting health.
I've never heard that expression - "pouring of water" ... the "rest of the video" is the functional anatomy review for my Exercise Science students and some method to the madness so people develop some physical literacy and body awareness. But "pouring of water", explain that. I think I like that expression;) Thanks for the comment.
Will this work with repetitive stress syndrome or impingement from overhead movement and activity? It seems odd to me that hanging for 10 seconds would rehab a shoulder injury caused by reaching overhead repetitively for decades. I’d like to try it but it hurts to bear weight so it makes me nervous to do it. I don’t want to damage it further. 🙁
Thank you! I am huge fan of burpees, and hitting big reps. I have been ignoring the backsides of my deltoids, and these stretches help. In my effort to feel like I am making progress, I forget I just turned 50, and longevity is the aim. It’s ok for me to not be able to keep up with my active Marine friend half my age. 🥸 Recovery is important. My first 100 burpees will be payment for your help. 🙌🏻
I bought that book a couple of years ago and it worked like a miracle. I still hang from a bar any time I go to the gym before and after my workout to keep my shoulders in good shape. Bar hanging works far better than any other PT techniques or PRP shots I've tried. This stuff really works and you feel results within a week or two. That book is worth it's weight in gold! You don't have to hang with you feet off the ground. Just put your shoulders under as much tension as possible by grabbing the bar with your hands. Trust me, this works!
I appreciate this comment ... my next video coming out next week will cover a few more techniques and modifications to help too, so glad you are still hanging and moving well!
I have a torn supraspinatus and a tear at the musculotendinous junction. hope this helps bilateral evenness in reaching and being able to get equal ROM!,,
Have been hurting from shoulder impingement for 4 years, was advised surgery but thought it wasn’t the best option... came across your video tried and so far after trying it for 2 days it feels a lot better than before.. I have more range and regular activities do not hurt!! I am amazed at how simple this was and how quickly I saw results!! Not sure why physical therapist never recommended this? Feel like they would rather perform surgery and take your money!! Thank you so much Dave!
Naresh, how are you feeling now after 10 months? I hope still doing well? Still hanging? I would love to hear an update.
@@DaveReddy Thanks for checking Dave, I haven’t been hanging regularly after the first couple of weeks, and I am able to resume normal activities such as throwing a ball over the shoulder etc but every few weeks I feel a little tighter around the shoulder so I hang for a 20’ seconds and I feel better immediately. I feel like my muscle/something has gotten weaker from all these years of impingement. Do you recommend any stretches/exercises to slowly strengthen my shoulder?
@@nareshdhakan5912 Dude, check out this video where he shows you the shoulder exercises to do after you hang, believe me they will help to strengthen your shoulders they have done wonders for my shoulder strength.... ua-cam.com/video/hbFm9z_bvhM/v-deo.html
@@nareshdhakan5912 how are feeling now Naresh?
I just started hanging and it instantly helps me relieve me of pain in the left shoulder.
Just want to check it's long-term effects.
I worked for a electric motor company, lifting motors from 30 to 60 pounds, something more, for 8 to 10 hours a night. My shoulder felt like a really bad muscle cramp, up my neck, down my chest and back, and down my arm, or was just a really sharp pain in my shoulder.
This pain was most of the night, every night, and even followed me home. Trying to lift my arm about shoulder high was hard to do, and I did not have full range of motion. And my company was no help in this matter.
And I was like this for over 3 years (had been doing the job for maybe 8 years) living with sometimes incredible pain, until I was able to change jobs, but the pain was still there at times even when I was not lifting.
I finally retired, and the pain lessened, but was still there when trying to do things.
NOW, I have been doing these exercises for a few days now, and can already feel relief.
Thank you.
Not sure why your comment didn't show up in my feed months ago but how are things going today? Still retired? Still hanging? Feeling better?
Hanging worked great for me. Did physio for months without much progress and read about hanging . Fixed my rotator cuffs within a couple of weeks
Love it ... seems we can get temporary relief from basic range of motion and anti-inflammatory treatments, but this just seems to change the effected structures just enough to make the difference. Keep it up ... I worry that people with labrum tears are hanging too much, and so that is a red flag, and really just changes hanging technique and muscle engagement enough to support the joint, but when it is purely impingement of a rotator cuff tendon, hanging is pretty awesome. I appreciate the comment.
@@DaveReddy can i ask you if there is a test for labrum tear to get a better idea of what is causing my pain? im almost 21 years old, 2 months ago my friend pushed on my shoulder weird while fighting, i pushed him off me in a awkward position with my shoulder/arm bent behind my head, immediately felt pain, took it easy in the gym and pain dissapeared. went with a heavy shoulder workout few weeks later and boom i hurt it again, thing is i dont really have a limited range of motion, its just more of a constant, seemingly chronic now dull achey pain right in the back/side/top of the shoulder. been doing hanging but not consistently but now am, also band pull aparts but pain is still here :(, have a super physical hvac job and i really need to stay healthy any advice on my situation? god bless
Agree wholeheartedly, and I follow Dr Hirsch’s book religiously, to compliment other rehab exercises as I am in recovery day 114, from three fractures in surgical neck of my right humerus bone. Since adding the hanging method and light weights, I easily moved to full ROM to my great delight! Your video is spot on! Good job😉
I just bought Dr. Kirsch's book on hanging as I am suffering from a reoccurrence of frozen should in my left shoulder. Just happened upon this video and figured it was worth watching. And was it ever! Excellent explanation and demonstration of Dr. Kirsch's shoulder exercises! Thanks so much!
So glad to hear this ... did you begin in a modified position? I am going to shoot a follow up video today or tomorrow about modified versions of the hang - so did you have to begin with your arms less than completely overhead? Also, did you do the dumbbell exercises, or just the hanging? I appreciate the comment!
When I initially developed frozen shoulder 10-15 years ago I could barely raise my left hand above the horizontal. The technique I used back then was to stand in a hot shower and slowly walk my fingers up the shower wall. Happily this time around I have fairly good range of motion directly overhead and can reach the bar. The most restricted movement is when I attempt to raise my hands from my sides and touch them together over my head. In terms of my hanging technique I have severe rheumatoid arthritis which has caused the fingers of both hands to deform and grip strength is poor as well. Hanging from the bar seemed to really stress my fingers so I purchased a set of weight lifting hook cuffs. These work extremely well and after 3 sessions of five 1 minute hangs I am almost able to support my entire body weight (135 lbs) while hanging. I could detect significant improvement after the very first session, by the end of the second session range of motion had really improved and shoulder discomfort was greatly improved as well. I am really impressed with this technique!!!!!
I started hanging and the recommended exercises in Feb 2021. They resolved my (posture induced?) shoulder impingement in about 6 weeks. I had been suffering for two months prior, as it was painful when I tried to sleep. Thanks for the maintenance advice.
How's your posture? Typically this begins in the spine (what you call your posture), as our upper back is naturally pretty flexible, and we tend to flex forward chronically. This changes our shoulder blade mechanics and may lead to impingement ... if you cannot extend upright to a tall posture, your shoulder blade will sort of round further and not allow full flexion through your shoulder joint, so I imagine that is more or less what helped you out. Keep it up ... throw in some "snow angels", ideally on a high density foam roller 1-2x/day to help with this even more. I will cover that in part two of this video in a few weeks. I appreciate your comment!
@@DaveReddy It's been a year++, and I just wanted to say that my shoulder is still in good shape. I have followed your maintenance advice. I had the same issue ~9 years ago about my posture (as diagnosed from an ortho and PT). When Covid shut down my gym, I got lazy (welcome to the human race!), I again suffered the consequences of poor posture and lack of exercise.. I am very conscious about my posture when walking or sitting at the computer these days. Anyway, I just wanted to pass on my heartful thanks. (from a 72 yr old male).
Hanging work beetter than everything i tried. After two week it almost healed my shoulder impingement. AWESOME
Love it ... how is your upper back posture? Is your stiffness or pain mostly (or was it) mostly in your shoulder, or at all in your upper back and neck? If so, how does your neck and upper back feel? Regardless, I appreciate the comment, so glad you are feeling better.
i have had 3 years of shoulder pain due to tendonitis from gym (im 19 rn) physical therapy and band exercises didnt do much but hanging made most of my pain fade after like 2 months its so crazy. ty
Very, very, very, very, very, very helpful! Thank you very much!
I got an impingement 6 months ago from practicing my volleyball serve (with really bad form, unfortunately) and have had PT on and off ever since. I've got a bar already in my house for pull ups, and it's the perfect height. Have started hanging just last week; I think it's helping. Working up hand grip strength will be a challenge, but, once developed, it's something I can also apply to other things such as dead lifting, where grip strength has been a limiting factor for me.
Been surfing for 40 years, started having tendinitis in my shoulders at about 19, (30 years ago,) I've tried this hanging from a doorway, and almost instantly it started feeling better! Shoulders only hurt when i surf, and as I've gotten older its harder and harder to do something i love.
Love to hear it ... how do you train for surfing, or do you just got out and surf as your exercise? Do you do any maintenance work or daily practice to feel good when surfing?
@@DaveReddy I don't train. Surfing has been my exercise, but I'm at an age where if I want to keep surfing that has to change. I bought some wall hangers and handle set, trying to figure out where to put them currently, but I think I'm going to start with just the shoulder stretches and exercises for now, and see what else I need from there. I have an active job, I'm on my feet all day so I could be in better shape, but I could be in a lot worse shape. ;)
Thanks for your videos and response!
Thanks for giving me Hope that Kirsch hanging and exercises might cure my nighttime shoulder pain. Loved the video.
Thank you for this video. I had a bad proximal humerus break 4/2/21 along with an elbow break. I was stuck in a sling for almost 3 months. When I was finally ready to start PT and cleared it with my surgeon, I came across this book and, since then have been hanging at least twice a day. I hang 45 sec and rest 30 for either 6 or 12 reps. I never added the additional exercises from the book to my regimen but have been doing the exercises prescribed by my PT. I still lack some ROM in the shoulder and elbow,which my doc says may never improve, but as a 69yo woman, I won’t give up.
I love it Judy, great job. I am publishing a new video in the next week or two about some research I have done on this, along with some modifications and complementary exercises that may help you with your range of motion. Keep moving sister!!
@@DaveReddy thanks for the kudos. I read a few more comments and am finally going to add the light weights to my regimen. Can’t get my arm behind my back yet or comfortably touch the back of my head. Looking forward to more videos.
Thank you!!!!! Excellent demonstration and explanation with the scapula! and humerus!! The whole video was Great!!!
👍👍👍
Hi,
I have seen that in Rural India, people don't have shoulder pain..
Reason -They are using Plough to dig their fields...
I tried it in my backyard..and yess..it worked...the jerk of digging the mud really releases the tightness in the shoulders...
Use it or lose it, I imagine if they are manually ploughing their fields, they are simply sitting less, changing positions more, dropping into a deep squat regularly, and generally expressing much more range of motion per joint overall. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.
I'm doing a LIVE video at 11 am central today to discuss whether to "hang loose" or "engage" your shoulders and hip muscles while hanging ... check it out ... "Hanging for Shoulder Pain Part 2 ...." Thanks for watching and please subscribe ... I will be posting more vides as the school year ramps back up this fall. - Dave
Hi again Dave. I just came back from the Doctors office where I met with a ortopedic surgeon. He told me I got a frozen shoulder and it can take up to 2 years to heal. I showed him the book and talked about hanging cure. He did not know anything about it. Can hanging also help cure a frozen shoulder faster? He gave me a hydrocortisone shot right into the shoulder socket. This is my day1 to full recovery and I want to make sure I do all the best training that I can to heal faster than 1 year from today if possible?
Just started doing the hang today, I had pain in the front of the shoulder and Trouble lifting the arm at 30 degrees (arc pain), also tightening with pain in the outer arm... outer bicep area. Right away I felt better from doing the hang. Will keep doing it this week to see how it goes
Keep me updated K C, listen to your body and keep your shoulders and abs engaged a bit to protect the area as you get comfortable hanging ... do you have a pull up bar, are you doing this at a gym or fitness center? Also maintain/restore mobility in your shoulder joint and girdle with some big fwd/bwd shoulder circles to help strengthen and mobilize the entire upper back. Hope it helps!! Dave
@@DaveReddy thank you. I have a nice tower pull up bar
Brilliant explanation coverd the danger's for different people and the benefits of doing this are remarkable I've been hanging for only s few weeks and the difference is fantastic.
Awesome video. I just started today. Been having terrible pain in my shoulder for 6 months. I was only able to hold the bar and stretch with about 10% of my weight applied. It hurt so bad but felt so good afterward. It is exactly the problem you describe in the video when I move my arm straight overhead with stinging pain so I'm hoping this can heal my injury?
Possibly yes, the theory is to open up space in the impinged area to allow for movement and healing, also to encourage blood flow and other joint fluid "flow" to deliver nutrients required for healing. This is a tough spot in the shoulder, and surgery rarely helps, hence ideas such as hanging.
UA-cam "wall slides" too, as another way to practice overhead reaching with the support of the wall which seems to help too.
Then try lying on your back on the floor to do a "snow angel" and see how that treats you. These positions mobilize and lengthen the tissues and structures that lead to shoulder and neck pain. Eventually the goal is to hang for 10-30 seconds several times throughout the day as a type of maintenance. Good luck and I appreciate the comment.
@@DaveReddy Hi again Dave. I just came back from the Doctors office where I met with a ortopedic surgeon. He told me I got a frozen shoulder and it can take up to 2 years to heal. I showed him the book and talked about hanging cure. He did not know anything about it. Can hanging also help cure a frozen shoulder faster? He gave me a hydrocortisone shot right into the shoulder socket. This is my day1 to full recovery and I want to make sure I do all the best training that I can to heal faster than 1 year from today if possible?
I've been in pain for years. I damaged something in both shoulders 25 years ago from placing my hands too close on the incline bench press. I felt pain in both and it left my humerus loose in the sockets. So now I've had shoulder impingement for years. I started this hanging 6 weeks ago and its getting better especially after a hanging session. I figure it took years for my shoulders to get in this bad of shape so its going to take time to change. I was curious about how long it takes to reshape bone and ligaments. This is what I found.
How long does it take to reshape bone?
About 20% of all bone tissue is replaced annually by the remodeling process. There are five phases in the bone remodeling process: ACTIVATION, RESORPTION, REVERSAL, FORMATION, and QUIESCENCE. The total process takes about 4 to 8 months, and occurs continually throughout our lives.
So I'm thinking it may take as long as 6 months. Any thoughts on this?
How are things going, your comment was from two months ago? I apologize for not replying sooner ... also google Wolfe's Law for an further explanation of tissue/bone remodeling. Your initial trauma is curious, I wonder if you just tore your capsule in both shoulder joints creating this instability? Are you still benching at all? And what pulling exercises are you doing? I am making another video soon, long overdue, about complementary exercises to do with hanging, and some strengthening exercises for the entire shoulder girdle (shoulder blades.)
@@DaveReddy I never had it checked out but I had pain in the front of my shoulders right off and if I did certain movements I would have the same pain and have to take anti-inflamatories. Last month Ive been sticking to doing rotator cuff exercises with bands mostly targeting the rear with external rotation exercises because i felt like the internal rotation muscles were a lot stronger and was part of my problem. They are feeling much more stable now with a small amount of inflamation in my left shoulder. It too is getting better. I'm also doing some upper body work but very light. Doing some hanging too. I think most rotator cuff work i am doing is working the infraspinatus muscle. I am benching but with light dumbells right now. Pulling exercises are low pulley rows light weight and holding the contraction a few seconds. Cable pull downs light weight medium grip holding the contraction for a few seconds. Thanks for the video and answering me.
I just bought the book.
Very cool ... it is a short read, it breaks down the anatomy with several xrays, and does include the dumbbell raises to the front and side that I only mention in the video. Tell me what you think, and how your shoulder is feeling after practicing hanging for a few weeks.
57 year old here- working out in my garage gym - moderate efforts in squats, dips, t bar rows - and biceps/triceps workouts for a few years. Got a power rack with a pull-up bar on the weekend so i tried to pullups - most of the time could not get 1 up even. Tried resistance bands - 1 set of 5 reps. While i was in the mood - i also had PB on t-rows and dips - did 10x dips for the `1st time. Then a few days later i'm out. I think im hit with some rotator cuffs issues on my ride side..lost a lot of strength in my right arm and shoulders - nearly couldn't military press an empty barbell up. A few days before the pain set in i thought my arms never felt so ripped - the skin felt stretched and tight. Then i lost strength and the pain at the front of the biceps and side of the deltoids.....woke up 1 night nearly crying.....I'm scared shitless now....can't tell exactly which exercise did it. My hunch could have been all that playing around the pull up bars....maybe it was too much for a 57 yo..could be my PB 10x dips.....was 100% painfree before the power rack weekend.
So sorry I didn't reply sooner, how are you doing today? I am 47 years old, and while I still train, I gave up dips probably in my mid-30's. Dips are awesome for strength and building mass, but they are rough on shoulders with 21st century posture. The head of the humerus, (upper arm bone) sites too far forward during the movement, and your biceps tendon often pays the price with a pretty mean shearing force tearing at it. I imagine that is what happened to you. The goal would be to work on keeping your horizontal, then vertical pulls strong, while building up your pressing strength again. I plan to make a few more follow up videos based on all of these questions and comments soon. How are you feeling today?
I had been having shoulder, neck and back pain for years that come and go. I been doing the hang about a week now at first I was able to hang for 15 to 20 seconds, now I can do a full minute easy for staters now and the pain just went away slowly and my grip is extra strong now.
Super helpful! Does it help with opening up the space for people with the "bone on bone" osteoarthritis?
It does Brenda, though start with modified hangs, meaning keep your feet on the floor with your torso diagonal as you "hang" with only some of your bodyweight pulling. Does that make sense? Osteoarthritis comes on for a few reasons, typically the bones are not positioned or patterning correctly during movement and that causes some excessive friction that leads to eventual grinding away of the healthy padding or cushioning of the cartilage, and this tissue just doesn't regenerate as we age leading to arthritis ("inflammation of the articulation between bones") Hanging may provide traction, separating the space a bit between the bones, and this can offer some relief. Listen to your body, pain does not equal gain, find an intensity level and range of motion that feels comfortable and as if providing relief, and progress from there. Has a doctor said you are bone on bone in both shoulders?
Which is better for hanging: bar or rings? - Thanks!
Looking for info on re stabilization of the shoulder after a dislocation?
I have a shoulder slap tear. I work out every day. Started hanging yesterday. Should I stop working out until the pain goes away or is it okay for me to work out?
Hey Gene, so how is the hanging going? This is a tough as a SLAP tear directly influences the biceps tendon that runs up your arm and into your shoulder socket, so you want to stop with any pain running down into your front shoulder or biceps area. The theory with hanging is to change the structures causing pain and impingement, but with a torn labrum or capsule tissue, you may have compromised the structures you are essentially hanging from, so it may not be recommended. As I have stated in many of these comments, I am not a doctor but enjoy the conversation and explaining many of these things to people who are training … so experiment with what and how it feels. Having said that, if you are going to hang, remain engaged, don't just "hang on your meat" or dangle from the bar as to not overstretch or irritate the tear. Did you get an MRI to confirm the SLAP tear? Finally, you may find a modified version of the hang to be useful, meaning to hang at a diagonal, partially unloaded angle with your feet on the ground until you can work up to a full hang, if that makes sense. I plan to do a part 2 of the video as this exercise is apparently pretty popular, I will be following up soon with modified hanging options, and some foam rolling and mobility work to complement your hanging. Good luck and let me know how you are doing after a few days.
Did I directly answer your questions Gene? Should you stop "working out"? What does your workout consist of? No, you should never really completely stop - continue your mobility work, continue your squats, steps, and lunges, and practice rows - how does a horizontal row feel - a bentover dumbbell row or a seated/standing cable row feel? You probably still want to practice reaching overhead, but not in a loaded position, just to maintain the ROM and active mobility. What position hurts the most? Reaching straight up? Does it matter how your arm is rotated, meaning if you lift your arm leading with your pinky pointed at the ceiling, does this hurt more?
Hi Dave. Did you ever make the follow up video about modified hanging versions? I looked through your playlist but couldnt find it. So far I am unable to lift my bad arm up high enough to be able to do a vertical hang. Thanks.
I'm scared I really messed up my shoulder because of how I sleep. I can't lift my right arm. I feel a nasty pinch in my shoulder. I have no insurance. Should I still try hanging?
Sorry for the late reply ... sorry to hear about your situation. If you are working on this still on your own, begin with low level hanging, as in anything you can manage. Can you grab a door knob and slowly pull your hips and body away from it for 5-15 seconds? That is a place to begin to see what you can tolerate. Second question, how well can you lie on your back with your arms to the side like a snow angel? Either way, keep moving it ... continue shrugging your shoulders up and down, do shoulder rolls and circles, and move your shoulder blades often. This is key, your upper arm bone anchors into your shoulder blades, so keep your shoulder blades moving on your rib cage daily, and then slowly get into reaches and VERY LOW level hangs, and try to remain in a pain free range of motion.
What would be the recommended technique for performing these hangs ? Would you rather try to keep your shoulders engaged and squeeze your shoulder blades together? Or would you try to stretch as much as possible?
GREAT QUESTION, and one that is often discussed. You want to be engaged to the point you are not hanging by your ligaments and other non-contractile tissues, but still want to hang in such a way that your shoulders are flexing to 180 degrees, if possible. Unlike in a pull/chin up, the goal is not to engage our shoulder blades to help stabilize our shoulder girdle in order to perform the pull up, but rather to cause change in the shoulder joint structure. So you want to be mobile enough in the position to hang freely, but without depressing (reverse of shrug) or retracting (squeezing together) your shoulder blades excessively. You want to feel safe and supported, but still hanging, if that makes sense. When we squeeze our shoulder blades together, that often changes the position of the upper arm bone in the shoulder socket. Having said that, if you feel like you are feeling pain or can't comfortably get into that hanging position, then you may want to begin with a modified hang with your feet on the floor, knees bent. So hang, then perform a partial reverse shrug, just enough to feel engaged and in control of the hang, and then see how much you can hang during a 5 minute time period, resting and stretching your wrist and fingers between hangs. Does that all make sense? Thank you for the comment!!
Very helpful and informative Dave. I'll give the exercises and hanging a try. Thank you.
Hey John, how are things going? Comments don't always rise to the top so I don't see them, but this is from 6 months ago? Have you been hanging? Doing modified hangs?
@@DaveReddy Thank you for asking Dave. Hanging has really helped recover from a shoulder impingement. Cheers.
I think I hurt my shoulders from pull ups and push ups. I was told by an Orthopedic that I have “internal bruising” I went to physical therapist and hanging was never discussed. Hanging has really helped my shoulders and my back. At 57 yo this seems like a better exercise. Lol curious what your thoughts are.
Injuries are typically a perfect storm of activities or lack thereof, meaning 3 sets of 12 push ups after sitting hunched over a desk for a long 9 hour work day can bother your shoulders, the same goes for pull ups. Hanging is a per-requisite for pull ups, and probably for push ups too. The ability to dead hang, or hang slightly engaged through your shoulders and upper back should be reasonably comfortable, otherwise, you should probably lay off of your push ups that day. The older you get, the more joint mobility work you have to balance with your push ups and pull ups. You can get away with just those two exercises, you just have to appreciate the positions and the postures you are in most of the day. Does that make sense? I have talked to a few PT's about hanging, but they typically do not prescribe them unfortunately as it is not a modality or treatment covered by insurance. That is another story. Long answer and I am babbling, but question for you, have you simply hung with an overhand and shoulder width grip? How does that feel?
Thanks. John M Kirsch MD
@@DaveReddy I have hung with my palms facing forward the with of my shoulders
@@DaveReddy good comment. Very true
Does it also help with rotary cuff tears man?
Hello sir . My shoulder feels good and my ROM also improves when i contract my shoulder blades backwards but when i loose them up ( frontward) i have impingement in my right shoulder , so what do u suggest
Thank you for the informative video. I am going to try hanging on a regular basis, I tried a bit before but I think my error was not activating the shoulder muscles while doing it which probably didn't help my shoulder irritation. I've been dealing with shoulder pain for over 3 years now. Had x-ray and ultrasound which didn't show much. Physio with months and months of exercises which has not done much. Saw chiropractor yesterday and he thinks I may have a labrum tear. My sports doctor signed me up to get an MRI (whenever that will be). If my elbow is straight, I can move my arm overhead or most directions with good mobility and low pain, but with elbow bent 90 and out in front of my body I can not get it up any higher than my belly button (so a movement such as lifting a kettle off the stove is painful and weak) it simply feels like my shoulder gets completely jammed.
Hey Dave, how are you feeling these days? I am following up with several people who commented 10 months ago to see how things are going.
Does this work for bursitis and tendonitis of the shoulder.
I have been been doing the hanging exercises daily for the past week. I have also been doing the side lateral and front raises daily. Should I be doing those exercises every other day to give those muscles time to heal?
In order to fit in other exercises and schedule a well balanced routine, yes, I'd perform the exercises every other day. You really aren't doing enough work to damage muscle tissue with the lateral and front raises (as you might with more intense weight lifting), but if you are indeed causing change in the muscle and bony structures, as Dr. Kirsch theorizes, then yes, the rest won't hurt. Hanging can be done daily though, especially if you are deskbound at work, sitting most of the day. That forward head and shoulder posture can begin to wreak havoc on your shoulder mechanics, so hanging is one great way to "unglue your body" from that seated position. "Your body gets good at what you ask it to do most of the time", so asking it to hang every day is a good thing, even it just a modified hang from your door frame. A pull up bar is a nice investment though.
I have tear in my right tendon I developed that playing decades of tennis. Actually its not hurt when serving or do overhead activities but more like when turning my shoulder back. When hitting forehand and etc. I have mixed information about hanging from doctors and physics. Some say not do anything above shoulder height especially not hanging that makes tear more damage. But some said do hanging and external rotation exercise. Not sure what to believe.
Will hanging also improve back pain?
What if you have a bicep tendon labrum tear, is hanging still advisable ?
I had surgery Feb. 4, 2021 (SLAP/Bicep Tenodesis). Shoulder is still extremely sore and weak, bicep is very weak. Been in therapy 8 weeks as well. Curious as to when it would be relatively safe to practice hanging. I think that would feel great! I still can't get my arm/shoulder straight up by itself and keep it there. Just lack the strength. Range of motion is getting a little better. Been a long, sleepless and painful journey. Thanks!
Michael. Were you ever able to get your arm up to start the hang? Im with the same issue right now. Thanks
@@pixelkat1819 I have made great progress as far as getting my arm straight up, out to my side and in front of me. Strength has gotten much better, using dumbbells to strengthen biceps/triceps and bands for the shoulders. It is still sore and I'm still limited to some movements, especially trying to reach my right back pocket and lower back. I continue at home therapy every other day and can see a little progress weekly/monthly. I still have not tried to hang, I'll wait until I'm very confident I won't damage or re-injure it. I definitely don't want to go through this again. It has been life altering to say the least. I remember asking my doctor how long and when I would know it is healed and he commented you'll know when you can use it without thinking about it and it does not cause pain. I will at some point get into hanging, it's proven it works and if it keeps me away from another surgery I'll definitely continue to do it. Kind of long winded, but this is how it is going so far. Take care and best of luck.
@@michaelwebb57 any update michael? another michael here haha shoulder issue :/
@@michaele4468 Now at 17+ months and it is still improving. Been an extremely slow process. Range of motion and reach has increased as well. I am slowly, with very little body weight, hanging. Yes, feet on the floor, I'm not taking any chances on re-injuring myself. Def don't want to go through this again, but it is getting better. Baby steps, lol. Best of luck with yours.
I’m 63 and I hang 5 minutes a day in 4 or 5 sets. Upon searching dead hanging everyday apparently it’s not good for the shoulders. They say it can lead to overuse of the shoulders. What’s your thought?
Hey John ... "overuse" is a tricky word. If your car has 160K miles on it, does it struggle from overuse if repairs begin to add up? Or if your car axel gets bump off kilter just 3%, you probably wouldn't notice, but after driving 5,000 miles on it, you'd notice a problem on one of the affected tires. Is that overuse or was it just not moving well or compensating with each revolution? Not sure why the car analogy came to mind but I just hear this a lot when clients return from doctor office visits. Having said that, while hanging should be a near daily practice, I don't think 5 minutes is necessary. People seem to experience relief building up from 20 seconds a day to 3 minutes a day, but a maintenance/preventative routine may only require 30-90 seconds a day. Your body gets good what you ask it to do most of the time, so if you aren't good at hanging, practice just enough to improve it ...it's like learning a language and then speaking just enough to maintain the ability. I imagine there are a few more stubborn conditions such as a bone spur that may not respond as well, and that may result in what a doctor may call overuse. Listen to your body, more flexibility isn't always better, the bigger issue is often when one side of the body is quite different than the other, especially in the lower body as it causes several imbalanced gait and posture issues. Are you having any issues? Or just being proactive about your hanging practice? It's a great question ... I'd love to know if any of the commenters below found relief for a while but then did too much. When I sit down to my computer like this and work for an hour, I walk over and hang for 10-30 seconds to unglue that desk chair posture. Nothing much more than that, then when I actually train at some point during the say, I may hang a few different ways, build up to pull ups, or do some lying on my back practice to mimic hanging in a unloaded way. I will post a video soon on that ... Five Moves to Supplement your Hanging Practice (or "Get the Most Out of Your Hanging Practice." Hope that helps ...
Thank you so much for the video. I have what is believed to be a rotator cuff tear. I absolutely know the computer work and resulting bad posture and socket position are a part of the storm, along with ping pong, my new love. I have a fair amount of pain and I cannot get my right hand overhead. Do you recommend doing this in a modified version and working up to the full hang or should I hold off until my shoulder pain goes away?
Have you been diagnosed with a RC tear or just guessing from the symptoms? I would try a modified version of this protocol, and really listen to your body. If it feels sketchy, it probably is. I am going to shoot a video today or tomorrow about modified versions of this exercise using TRX straps, rings, Smith Machine, racked barbell, etc, along with a few brief videos from my phone on vacation next week as I will find places to hang there too;) I apologize for not replying sooner, it has been 3 weeks, have you had any relief?
@@DaveReddy hi Dave. Did you ever film modified example versions? I looked but was unable to find it. Thanks.
nicely done. i see there are many related videos based on this book. it's said that other than trauma, most shoulder issues are impingement. what confuses me is that i have no problem raising my arms or any shoulder mobility. but when i do push ups, or chest presses of any kind, i sure get a twinge of pain in my right shoulder. right underneath the front of the shoulder muscle near the top. the harder i push, the worst the pain and about a year ago i had to stop chest exercises altogether for a while. very frustrating. do you think hanging is likely to be the remedy?
Hey James, great question and a common one unfortunately ... hanging won't hurt, but it sounds like you have some biceps tendonosis. The biceps muscle has two muscle "bellies", hence the "bi-" that therefore have two tendons that both attach up in the shoulder, one on a notch in the shoulder blade, the other runs straight up the upper arm and over the arm bone into the shoulder joint socket where you are describing. Impingement is typically a notch higher and a bit more to the outside, where as a bicep tendon pain is as you describe, and can be irritated by pressing exercises. If you grab your shoulder and "massage" the front of it with your thumb, is that where you are feeling the pain? Irritation and inflammation of a rotator cuff muscle tendon typically causes impingement symptoms, versus what you are describing. What is your upper body routine? If you are focusing on push ups, how often are you doing them? Push ups are those male/ego exercises that are great, but sometimes we focus on doing them every day, or try to hit our age with them, when in fact we need more rest between push up workouts or need to balance them out with "pulling' and "rowing" movements. Long reply, but does this all make sense?
@@DaveReddy it does. i do more pulling work than pressing and i only do resistance training twice a week (i'm 53). and i don't go heavy as possible, i take a lot of precautions. i'm now doing a deep dive and see there is lots of info on this potential injury that may be the issue. thanks for the direction.
Man Dave, I have Never seen such a detailed and thoughtful response to a comment!!! Totally Beautiful of you to take such time and care with your reflective response!! Thank you!!!
My problem is, I have a lot of pain when I try to move my shoulder into that position. Is this only viable when you don't have much pain while reaching out above your head? Or should you not care about the pain and just try it for a few days?
Hey Ozzy, it really depends on where you are, meaning, how long has it been like this? Many or most people who benefit from hanging begin hanging because traditional PT or other therapy haven't "worked", or they begin hanging when the pain is mild to uncomfortable but they can still reach over head. Does it hurt to get to that position but after you are there it subsides, or painful the entire time? Have you had it looked at? A doctor or therapist? Finally, are you using it often? Playing an overhead sport or doing manual labor?
@@DaveReddy Hi Dave, thanks for the response. It has been 6 months now, gradually got worse. Been taking physio for one month, not helping much. I can not raise my arm vertically and it doesn't subside in the vertical position. I can not properly hang on a straight vertical line, but I could hang in a slightly angular (30 degrees forward) position. I tried to hang on my feet for 4-5 secs, several times. I had moderate pain. I thought it was good enough and gradually I could do more. But then, in the night it got inflamed, and now after 2 days, still not good. Maybe I tore apart some things, I don't know.
I'm suffering from impingement for a year I'm starting this today every day 😕 can u please answer these questions? 🙏🏼🙏🏼 it will help me alot
🟡When doing the hanging, How wide should I place my hands
🟡Which approach is better :
1- hang then while resting doing front raises, then hang and while resting again doing Lateral raises.... Ect to the end of 15 minutes
Or
2- hanging for 15-20 minutes, then doing the raise exercises
🟡While hanging, is it ok to tight the abs? Or i need to loose the core
🟡Will this method help removing the scar tissue?
Thanks ♥️
GRIP SPACING. The closer you have your hands on the bar, the more your shoulder joints will potentially impinge, so be aware of this, and then vary the distance. Shoulder width/arms vertical should be fine, and you may find yourself being able to inch them closer as time passes.
APPROACH #1 or #2. I like approach #1 as you describe it more, as it is more time efficient. Dr. Kirsch recommends a longer protocol in the book, but I like "supersetting" the hanging with the dumbbell raises so whether you get 3 minutes or 15 minutes total, you are getting both exercises. The best exercise is the one that you will do, so any duration is great, and some days you may have more time than others.
TIGHTEN CORE. This is the million dollar question with hanging. You do not want to "hang on your meat", meaning you don't want to dangle by your soft tissues and ligaments, you want to remain engaged in your abdominal muscles and keep your shoulder blades engaged too, if that makes sense, so you feel a sense of control. Do a complete "loose" hang, then slightly pull your shoulder blades down away from your ears just enough to feel your shoulder girdle engaged. Concerning your "core" or "abs", slightly tuck your tail to keep your pelvis in a relatively neutral position, and to help lengthen your spine. The traction you get from hanging helps globally, not just in the shoulder joint.
SCAR TISSUE. In theory, Dr. Kirsch believes that your CA ligament and the hook/acromium process of the shoulder blade will change shape just enough to allow for more space within the joint. Therefore it is tough to say whether you are changing the scar tissue or just making more room for it. That being said, exercise and physical activity are beneficial for regeneration purposes, the more you can safely stress the body and signal the regeneration and remodeling of muscles and tissues the better. This is a big reason we exercise in the first place. We'd like to think that if you are stressing tissues closer to and around scar tissue, that it will be part of what is removed and replaced with new tissue.
I hope that helps ... good luck!!
@@DaveReddy
Omg thank you so much you are so awesome 💙💙
This will definitely help me through my journey 💪🏼☺️
Great material! Thanking you a lot!
So do you just hang? Absolutely relaxed? You're not pulling up in the slightest? I've tried this, but I wasn't relaxed; I felt if I totally relaxed I might pull a muscle or especially a ligament or tendon. So I pulled myself up, but only about 1/2 an inch, so that the muscles would get a workout too. What say you? PS- I had no shoulder pain before I began. Another web site suggested that one "shrug" the shoulders, which to me seems to mean to pull up slightly, isn't that what "shrug" would mean in this context? Thanks.
Great question and two quick replies are (1) feel out a relaxed hang but only in a modified, standing position, meaning using a Smith machine bar or gymnastics rings, or simply stand on a box and just soften your knees as to allow for most but not all of your bodyweight can handle the stress. "If it feels sketchy, it probably is", to your point about feeling like something may tear. (2) As you mentioned also, slightly engage your shoulder girdle (your shoulder blade/rib cage "joint") to support your shoulder, and to perform a nice isometric strengthening movement for your mid to lower traps. It is actually a reverse shrug, meaning a regular shrug is where you elevate your shoulders, but a reverse shrug is when you draw your shoulders down (depress your shoulder blades) while under load. Hope that makes sense.
I have time this morning, Thursday, July 28th, I may go Live to discuss this as it is a common question. I appreciate the comment!!
@@DaveReddy - Thank you for replying. There's hardly any difference between pulling yourself up half an inch or pulling your shoulders down... but there is SOME difference... I'm going to explore this some more, this is very interesting, thanks again!
@@DaveReddy - No live Thursday July 28th appearance, huh? What was it, stage fright? The dog ate your script? Too bad; there I was: all dressed up and nothing to see... sigh...anyway, thanks for commenting.
@@TaichiStraightlife Wow, this is an impressive comment, actually, it takes me 30-60 minutes to set up a live stream and it went OK I think. ua-cam.com/video/1XglkxJEQh4/v-deo.html
So I’m on a wait list for shoulder replacement surgery after a semi rollover accident last November, osteoarthritis no cartilage I’m told . I’d like to try for pain relief and avoid surgery, any one with this worked for who was supposed have this surgery?
The bar isn't high enough for me to hang so I have to bend my knees instead and I wish somebody would show the exact position for that. It seems the videos are always cut off at the waist or at least not low enough to show the legs. If somebody has a link to refer to I would appreciate it
Any updates on the planned research??
I got diagnosed with sub-acromial bursitis (ultrasound) but overhead movement doesn't bother me at all. However I cannot flat benchpress, pushup, etc without the left shoulder feeling unstable during and flaring up after those movements. Would hanging benefit me?
My calisthenic coach always tells us to engage the scapulas before we do pull-ups or muscle ups. Do you tell your patients to engage their scapula before hanging from the bar?
Great video.. thank you!! I did something to my shoulder while doing dumbbell flies for chest and now it hurts when I raise my arm past 45 degree angle. Going to try the hanging method recovery.
Dumbbell flies can be rough on your shoulder joint, as the weight it takes for them to be effective in strengthening your pec major muscles is usually too much sheering force on your anterior shoulder tendons - namely your biceps tendon. Flies also force your rotator cuff to work (mostly to stabilize your shoulder joint) while being stretched quite a bit which isn't ideal. A muscle is not in an optimal state of strength when stretched too far, therefore when you get that big stretch with your flies, you are compromising the force production and stability of your shoulder joint. If you want to stick with flies, I'd do cable flies to allow your shoulder blades to move a bit more during the exercise which reduces the stress on the front of your shoulder, and stick with dumbbell presses at different bench angles with varying tempos and stretch (or depth of each rep), if that makes sense. You just need consistent reps with a decent amount of weight to build or maintain your chest if that is your goal. I recommend hanging though regardless, especially if you also tend to work at a desk during the day - hanging is a great way to prepare for upper body workouts (especially pressing movements.)
I was diagnosed with should impingement, but my biceps also hurt. I was told that's because of impingement as well. Is this true? Can this shoulder hanging exercises help both?
i have torn my rotor cup 80 % they also call it frozen shoulder.. my surgeon said to watch you and might help. as i been going for physiotherapy for 8 months now and still no improvement as i had an injection of cortisone and that has helped for about a month now it is strating to become sore again . would like to get it operated on so i can get back to life.
Hey Eldin, your "surgeon said to watch you and might help" meaning trying hanging? You know your body best, though research continues to support the idea of non-invasive (non-surgical) rotator cuff pathology solutions. How old are you? Be sure to ask any surgeon willing to operate what his or her expectations are from the surgery, as I have had clients with multiple RC surgeries and are still struggling with instability. Frozen shoulder is a little different, and typically results from not moving the joint due to pain, and "your body gets good at what you ask it to do most of the time", if you hold your arm at your side, that is all it will want to do. Last question, your therapist has help you with your core strength, your shoulder girdle (shoulder blade stability and control) and your shoulder joint external rotation? I hope that with 8 months of working with him or her, you understand that question. Your discernment in this case will depend on your desired results - do you hope to just sleep better? Work over head? Throw a baseball or serve a volleyball?
Does it have to be a pronated grip hang? Can you do a neutral/hands parallel grip as well?
In the book it talks about the possible permanent disability caused by having subacromial decompression surgery. I had this procedure back at the end of July. Nobody has been paying much attention to the fact that I have scapular dysfunction, and this is the primary reason I've had issues. Will I still be able to do passive hanging or will my shoulder be too far gone now? Is there a safe way to find out if I can start hanging?
Don't know why your comment didn't show in my feed months ago, how are things going? Your issue is common unfortunately, doctors and therapists do not traditionally assess the shoulder girdle (the shoulder blades relationship with the rib cage) and the muscles and movements associated. So scapular movement dysfunction and winging cause many issues in the shoulder joint and elbow that are treating at the place of pain versus the source. So I would still recommend modified hanging as tolerated, but to UA-cam serratus anterior muscle activation/exercises, and other scapular control movements. Performing inverted rows and modified push-ups mindfully with full scapular movement can also help depending on the overall health of your upper body.
@@DaveReddy I think I didn't actually have subacromial decompression done. Based on carefully reading the details of the surgery and conversing with my surgeon, it looks like he cleaned up a tiny bit of fraying on the labrum and got rid of the cyst that developed in that area, and then loosed the the middle and lower ligament in the shoulder. So it's not looking like anything crucial for function was removed. However, the original pain is still in the front of the shoulder so I have a feeling something may have been over looked. Before I had this surgery I had a previous visit with a specialist who reviewed my MRI, and he claimed I had biceps tendonitis. That matches up with the symptoms I feel regularly. I'm scheduled for another MRI on December 15th so hopefully that will help figure out what's going on, because once again another specialist seems confused and is guessing tight shoulders/ adhesive capsulitis. I'm banking on it being the bicep tendon, and if it is that or just tightness in general do you think it'd be safe to slowly start easing into hanging?
@@exothermic8525 Halfway through your comment I was thinking it could be bicep tendonitis. Tendonitis seems to need to run its course regardless of what treatments we throw at it ... are you training regularly, or doing manual labor that continues to aggravate it? And yes, to answer your question, I would do some level, or angled hanging with your feet on the floor, but also work in some chest opening exercises, things like lying on your back with your arms out to the side, palms up for 60 seconds. Can you tolerate that? When that biceps tendon gets inflamed, it tends to slip out of its groove (or track) and continue to experience friction, so you may want to stay away from overhead movements and biceps curls, at least reduce your weights used. Do you have a foam roller by chance? I can post a new video with a few floor exercises to optimize your hanging.
@@DaveReddy I've taken a substantial amount of time off from using it regularly. Over the past 4-5 years I've had to put a halt on virtually all upper body training. The last time I was using my upper body regularly was during rehab after the shoulder surgery (July 2021), but the PT kept irritating my shoulder so my surgeon ended the therapy, and they most likely kept irritating it because they were hyper focused on improving ROM and weren't paying attention to anything else outside of what was done in surgery. I'm a personal trainer at a gym so I don't really need to do a lot of physically strenuous activity, and sadly that's playing into my job situation which means I can't demonstrate exercises. On the positive side I have a free membership and access to all of the facilities equipment pretty much 24/7. I also have stuff at home, and that includes a pull-up stand and other various tools that have been made popular by the Knees Over Toes Guy. And yes I have a regular foam roller and one of the long ones.
@@DaveReddy and to add, I used to do an exercise with the foam roller, where I laid on it face up with my arms out to the side to stretch out the pecs, but I could only barely get to the 90 degree position before I felt discomfort in that usual spot.
Would this help with scapular winging as well?
It can if the reason for your winging scapula is weakness in your shoulder girdle. Your shoulder girdle muscles (traps, rhomboids, serratus anterior mostly in your case and pec minor) all play a part in stabilizing and controlling the shoulder blades when moving, throwing, pressing, pulling, etc. So if you hang and engage those muscles, and improve your strength while hanging , and practice reverse shrugs, it certainly won't hurt. If your problem is serious, and involves some issue with your long thoracic nerve, then it is hard to say. When do you feel your winging scapula, or what movements cause you to feel the instability the most?
@@DaveReddy any types of pressing movements wether it is a shoulder press dumbbell press and lateral raises
Can you do this with osteoarthritis in your shoulders?
Thanks!
What are ur thts on yoga for range of motion.
I just seems like my body is in pain cus i'm not moving my body enough
Will this help with lateral shoulder abduction? Ive given up on over head pressing but even doing static holds at 60 degrees for lateral raises irritates my shoulder. There's no injury to my shoulder just instability
Can I still do pull-ups in between hanging?
What about joint degeneration disease throughout my body? There is not that much room in my joints and the shoulder joint is pressing on a tendon and anything else that passes through the shoulder joint.
Hey man thanks for the video. I've been working out on top of climbing trees for a living for 15years. I'm 33 but I did something along the line an my shoulder hasn't been the same since. Some days it goes from my shoulder all the way into my elbow an some days it's jus my elbow that hurts. Some mornings I wake up an can't move my shoulder for the first 5minutes when I wake up because it's numb. I've been hanging an doing light workouts plus the whole work thing still. What could be the cause of this? I've read about rotar cuffs,shoulder inpigment,elbows an still just am not sure where to start. Any input would be great. Thanks for your time boss
Hey Chad, how is your shoulder doing today? The "kinetic chain" you describe begins with the spine and rib cage, then the shoulder blade sits on the back of the rib cage, and your upper arm bone fits into the socket of the shoulder blade. When anything along that chain is out of whack, you typically feel it up or down stream. So if your shoulder blade is not moving correctly, the same side shoulder and elbow may bark at you, and the numbness may be a sign of a nerve being impinged.
ELBOW PAIN. Is this on the inside (closer to your body) or the outside of your elbow? Anything in the arm pit area?
WORKOUTS. What does a typical workout consist of? Are you doing as many pulls as presses, rather, are you pulling your shoulders and arms back into a good, chest opening position as you are doing push ups which tend to close up your chest and round you forward?
AGE. Everyone ages differently, but I know it can be the early 30's that workouts beginning changing for people, especially if hobbies or work days tend to be pretty physical. You may need more mobility work to maintain working out with your daily climbing. I hit the wall around 30 years old when my body told me I couldn't body build AND play basketball competitively 3/week.
MOBILITY DRILL. How does it feel for you to lie on your back, flat on a regular floor and no pillow, arms out to the side, palms up for 2-5 minutes? Are your shoulders, head, elbows and hands all on the floor comfortably? Does anything go numb while doing so?
Is this good for pain in the front shoulders from doing bench press?
I have an unusual question but do you know what can cause shoulder pain when trying to do pull-ups from an "L-Sit: position? pain only occurs at the very start of the rep and feels like there's a "barrier" or "wall" in my shoulder.
Henrique, great question and super tough exercise. How does it feel with a regular pull up? The key is what is going on with your ribs and posture at the beginning of your movement. If you compensate or generate strength by rounding your shoulders forward, or adjusting your neck out of good position, this may be creating that "wall" you are describing. Are you actually performing a pull up with your hips flexed to 90 degrees? I appreciate the question and look forward to hearing more.
@@DaveReddy I am pretty comfortable with regular pull ups, able to do 3x8 as of now (aiming for 3x10) and I also do a lot of scapula shrugs in a regular pull-up position for scapula/shoulder health. I tend to keep my grip shoulder wide and make sure I lean back at the top to maximize back engagement. I also switched my training style to focus on calisthenics so since November there has been more of an emphasis on pull-ups in my training.
When I am in the L-sit position, it feels a lot weaker so I may be compensating by using more shoulders and leaning forwards. perhaps I should work on scapula shrugs in the L sit position before pull-ups? I also try to do my L-sit pull ups the same way as regular pull ups. I engage my scapula, make sure everything is tight but I feel discomfort in my shoulder when I engage in the pull.
Hi, I probably have a tendinosis in a rotator cuff. Is this a good exercise or should I not do this? It hurts a little bit, score 3/10 but as soon as I let go it feels good.
Second point, I have some pain in the left lats after doing this. Could this overstretch the lats to hang with full weight?
Tendinosis in the RC or the biceps tendon? Do you feel pain in the front of your shoulder running down, or around your lateral deltoid and down the side of you shoulder? The latter is usually a symptom of a crabby RC tendon. And yes, this is part of Dr. Kirsch's theory, that is your supraspinatus RC tendon is inflamed and impinging under your acromial process, you may be able to stretch the ligamentous arch out a bit to make more room for it as it heals up, though if it feels sketchy, it probably is. You can go with a little irritation, but if you brain senses too much pain, you will create a pain cycle or pattern you could do without especially in an overhead position. You could work up to a total vertical hang by modifying it to a partially unloaded diagonal hang, or hanging with bands to lighten your total bodyweight load. Second point answer - if hanging for the first time, you may have also been contracting your lats eccentrically to control the hang and decent, and isometrically which you may be sore from. That would be natural. Is or was the lat pain specific or more of a good sore? I also do snow angels on the floor between hangs. I plan to shoot part two of this video to discuss more of these questions. I'm no doctor, but have been working with post-rehab and people who have not experiencing great results from conventional rehab for decades, so I enjoy the conversation mostly, and hope to help some people. I am always working on tweaking these things myself to maintain my mobility as long as possible. What is GarageGymBro's? Maybe we can hook up for a live event, do some Q&A, talk some shop?
@@DaveReddy thanks. I think I found the problem. Have the symptoms of a SLAP tear. That's why it was so difficult to find. I now just have an RMI made through the doctor. I give an update when i have done the MRI.
Thanks for the information in this video
Sure, are you hanging at all? Even modified hangs? Even a modified hang with finger tips one a door way frame counts and can help for stiff shoulders. You don't want to love overhead reaching ability as shoulder and neck pain often follows. Good luck ... I appreciate your comment.
Thank you
how about working on scapula exercises?
This is key ... I will cover this in a follow up video. Your shoulder health begins in the spine (core, mobility), then to the rib cage (breathing mechanics), and THEN to the scapular-thoracic joint, which is how your scapular lay on your rib cage and move accordingly. Your ribs anchor to your scapulae, and your upper arm bones anchor into your shoulder blades (scapulae), so this is key, as there is a rhythm or ratio of movement between how your shoulder blades rotate and move up and down, in and out, and how your arm bone moves within your shoulder blades. You don't want to hang in such a way that you are just dangling from your rib cage, you want to remain in a slightly shrugged position while hanging, and then I like to superset hanging with snow angels on a longitudinal high density foam roller to massage trigger points and tightness throughout my shoulder blade muscles, if that all makes sense. This hanging theory by Dr. Kirsch just addresses the shoulder joint, but all PT's and movement specialists must also address the motor control and strength of the scapulae. So doing bat wings, tree huggers, hanging reverse shrugs, etc are all great shoulder blade exercises. Hope that helps and thank you for commenting.
@@DaveReddy Thankyou
mine hurts when i lift weights in front of me and above my head what could it be? i hang a lot do pullups often im pretty fit but i did not managed to get to the bottom of it
Hey Sile, what do you mean by "lift weights in front of you?" Your biceps tendon can become inflamed and give you trouble when doing push-ups and some overhead moves, that might just mean lightening the weights a bit and focusing on full range of motion unloaded movements for a few days or weeks. Do you mean push-ups? Are you mixing your grip up with your hangs .... wide, narrow, underhand? Then also make sure you are doing full range of motion pull-ups, many guys I work with stop short at the bottom, or are bouncing into each rep. When my shoulders are achy, I will do dead hangs between reps. One more thing, are you doing horiztonal pulling movements, such as inverted rows or dumbbell rows?
@@DaveReddy hi, my usual workout consist in doing inverted rows, pullups chest to bar, ring dips and push ups and some kettlebell stuff like cleans presses. My shoulder pain occurs for example when i simulate a barbell overhead press with no weights and no bar, going from bottom to top but in a slight circular motion it hurts, also i noticed it when i changed the wheels of my car when i grabbed the wheel by the sides and i lifted it in front of me i could feel my achy shoulder weak. Is hanging gonna help? i noticed when i deadhang without the shoulderblades engaged the problem shoulder is hurting a little.
I really appreciate this, just subbed
Hi Dave - Great video. I love the shoulder warm up you recommended in your other video as well. I bought Dr. Kirsch's book. Would you recommend doing the dumbbell exercises every day or every other day? hanging every day makes sense, but unsure about lifting every day. Thanks
Where can I get the book from?
My wife has shoulder impingement she can't raise her arm more than 70'degrees
We tried to do this and not only she could not do it but she woke up with more pain 😢
Nothing is helping her
Is very frustrating !
I hate to hear it ... shoulder replacements are typically performed when someone can no longer sleep comfortably, if at all, due to shoulder pain, though people, similar to your wife, live for months if not years with shoulder pain. When she raises her arm and is nearing 70 degrees, does she immediately shrug her shoulders too to compensate? Also, if she lies on her back and does a similar movement, doing a snow angel type movement, does she feel as much pain and discomfort? Also, has she only been diagnosed with shoulder impingement or an actual rotator cuff tear? Typically it is the supraspinatus that tears and inflames causing the pain. Can she do modified hangs? So that her shoulder it just below the pain threshold or angle? A few questions there, but I am always hoping to help in some way and curious as to if modified hangs can help too.
Thank you 🙏
Very helpful, thanks
My question can you overdoing it like i doing everyday for 20 min is their a limit or something?
My Orthopedist said there is very little cartilage between my shoulder connections and I will need a replacement shortly. I play golf three times a week with no pain during, but aches after. I’ve been doing shoulder hangs, maybe 50% weight only about 15 seconds twice daily. Also been doing strength training, not reaching above my head, for a couple months. Noticeable improvement. I can feel movement, clicking, popping in my L shoulder. I tore my rotator cuff years ago. I ordered the book. Will go to a longer hang, more often. Your thoughts? Thanks for the info!
Hey Peter ... my first thought is to hold off on your replacement as long as possible, medical technology is only getting better, so every year or three you hold off, the better the eventual procedure will be. People typically get replacements because they can no longer sleep comfortably if at all due to shoulder pain. So when you are golfing 1x/week in pain, and it bothers your shoulder plus you can no longer sleep at night, then you'd be close to getting a replacement. Your "strength training" it involves rowing and horizontal pulling movements? Do you do home exercises or go to a gym? I might do a video today what pulling/rowing exercises are best to complement hanging. Stick with the 50% hangs also, most of my clients over 60 do modified or partial bodyweight hangs, though a few do full hangs.
Thanks! I bought the book. Unbelievable discovery. I appreciate your additional exercises and approaches. This is the most optimistic I’ve felt about shoulder problems in years.
are your feet off the ground?
They would be and often are, though I am 6'5" so it's tough to find a high bar. You want to stick with the intensity that is appropriate for you, ebbing and flowing between how relaxing versus tensed up you are to stabilize and support the hang, and feeling out how much of your bodyweight you can withstand. Ideally you'd begin with both feet on the floor and just allow your knees to go limp so you are hanging, if that makes sense, and progress up to a full hang for 10-30 seconds at a time up to 2-5 minutes a day. Hope that helps!!
Is it good to do hanging sessions with a shoulder calcification? Does it benefits or is it dangerous?
The short answer is to give it a try, but modify it by either not hanging with your entire body weight or by "hanging" but with your shoulder at an angle. If you hands are at your side, your shoulders at 0 degrees, walking with your arms straight out in front of you like Frankenstein, 90 degrees. The question for you then is whether you can get to a tolerable, safe, but still effective space when hanging with your shoulders at 120, 140, 160, or 180 degrees? (180 degrees is your arms straight up over head.) Bone spurs and calcifications are like calluses, they are there for a reason and protecting the area they are forming due to some sort of irritation. The theory behind hanging in your case is it to open up space around that inflamed, calcified rotator cuff tendon so it has room to breathe and heal. If it feels sketchy, it probably is, so avoid too sharp of a pain, but if you have tried regular physical therapy, or have done inflammatory modalities like ultrasound, over the counter pain killers, or even a cortisone injection and your doc is talking about surgery, I'd definitely try some consistent hanging for a week to see. Dr. Kirsch is a surgeon, he has seen some pretty bad shoulders improve over the course of a week or two, and only get better with a maintenance routine. Our goal is to facilitate healing and change in our body, our body is amazing like that, so anything we can do to encourage this healing, versus using drugs or a knife is always recommended. You may have to be patient during the initial 20 seconds or even a few days, and I imagine you will experience some improvement, but every shoulder is different. Hope that helps ... good luck and let me know how it goes. The other part of the protocol is to do shoulder raises or "presses", as if you were pressing up and holding the ceiling up overhead. Do 10-20 of those each time you hang too, and see how that goes. I will leave you with that for now.
@@DaveReddy thank you very much!
Maybe its in our DNA to hang and climb. Makes sense. The stretch feels good.
Would this be suitable if the long head of the bicep tendon is being impinged? Or would hanging cause the tendon to be abraded and possibly torn through by the acromion? Obviously don't want to worsen anything that may be damaged already. Thanks :)
Hung for about 1year, no improvement, I was up to 60 seconds working through the pain. Did PEMP, Shock Therapy, PROLO, Trigenics, etc. etc. Nothing worked. Both shoulders frozen . Any ideas!
No fun James, I am sorry to hear it. The shoulder is crazy complex … when you say "frozen", are you shoulders at your sides more or less? How high can you raise them? How about lying on your back on the floor? Can you do a snow angle or reach high overhead with the load of your spine and shoulder muscles in an upright position? How does that feel?
My back doc told me NOT to hang from a bar! Who's right??
A few questions and I can comment with something fruitful I hope ... how well does your "back doc" know your back? Is your back doc a DC or MD? What makes him a back doc? Does he do pain management, epidurals, adjustments, or surgeries on patients backs? Does he exercise and is he in good shape him or herself? One reason I ask is because many doctors are trained in biochemistry, pharmacology, and pathology, thus, know little to nothing about exercise, kinesiology and functional anatomy outside of a first year medical school weed out class, and I say this from talking to many doctors I have had as clients. Let me know ... is your shoulder AND back bothering you?
@@DaveReddy
He's one of the top joint doctors in NYC. He helps me with my back and shoulder issues. He said NOT to do any hanging until six weeks have passed since my minor injury. But I think a lot of surgeons don't really know much about physical therapy, you know? All they seem to know about is how to cut up a person so that they can profit from their medical degrees. That's why I contacted you. Any thoughts about this would be greatly appreciated, because my healing isn't going very well doing my usual shoulder stretches.
@@tiffsaver I agree and appreciate your perspective, doctor's and even too many physical therapists do not get in the gyms themselves to understand how exercise and loading the body orthopedically or biomechanically can be so beneficial, there fix as you mention is typically a knife or a drug. So what is your "minor injury"? Regardless, you can always begin hanging in a modified and mindful way, meaning listen to your body, if it feels sketchy, it probably is, and you can keep your feet on the floor and work up to doing a 100% bodyweight hang. There are modifications to try first. There should be a link at the end of this video with "Part 2" where I talk about modified versions and if/when to contract your shoulder girdle and low back/core muscles to protect these areas when hanging. Do you have a shoulder issue that isn't going away?
@@DaveReddy
Thanks for gettin' back Dave, I appreciate it. I have some shoulder pain from a couple of weeks ago when I helped a friend move, but nothing serious. To be honest, I don't trust most doctors, particularly surgeons. If you go to a physical therapist, they can't make any money, so just do the math!! When it comes to any kind of physical therapy, I ALWAYS listen to my body, first. If it hurts too much, I automatically STOP. But I just got through hanging from my bedroom door (I don't have a bar, so I just grab the top of the door and support most of my body weight by just bending my knees), and there was absolutely zero pain. I'm going to take your advice my friend, and start listening to good folks like you.
@@DaveReddy
Doctors know even LESS about nutrition. In their entire medical education, they only receive around two weeks on the subject. The typical German Shepard knows more about healthy eating than they do. It's a tragedy, all designed by the medical industry, who prefer selling drugs to actually promoting health.
Slap tear can be
The exercises for the shoulders are 10:43 and 14:37. The rest of the video is pouring of water.
I've never heard that expression - "pouring of water" ... the "rest of the video" is the functional anatomy review for my Exercise Science students and some method to the madness so people develop some physical literacy and body awareness. But "pouring of water", explain that. I think I like that expression;) Thanks for the comment.
Will this work with repetitive stress syndrome or impingement from overhead movement and activity? It seems odd to me that hanging for 10 seconds would rehab a shoulder injury caused by reaching overhead repetitively for decades. I’d like to try it but it hurts to bear weight so it makes me nervous to do it. I don’t want to damage it further. 🙁
Thank you! I am huge fan of burpees, and hitting big reps. I have been ignoring the backsides of my deltoids, and these stretches help. In my effort to feel like I am making progress, I forget I just turned 50, and longevity is the aim. It’s ok for me to not be able to keep up with my active Marine friend half my age. 🥸 Recovery is important. My first 100 burpees will be payment for your help. 🙌🏻
Thanks. I'll try. I think mi left shoulder stop me doing bench press and pooshups, dips. Age 55. But never giv up exercises gym.👍🦴