The Steve Tiberius Donoghue Book Club: A Distant Mirror - First Meeting!
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2024
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When I first read this book back in 1978, I don't think I really grasped what a great book this was. Since then I have read a lot more about the period through the 1400s, so I have more of a foundation for appreciating this. And I am so entertained by Tuchman's style, the way she manages to formulate a salient ironic twist at the end of most paragraphs. This is a most enjoyable selection!
As for Enguerrand, I am not annoyed at all, for he is like a grotesque fingerpost that we encounter along the way. Twisted though he was and flimsy as he stands as a plot element, he is a kind of yardstick against which to compare and contrast the goings on all around.
Personally, I really love her decision to follow one person and talk about how he was affected by events of the era. Her discussion of why she did not choose a wealthy person-or a woman-is really persuasive. What I don’t feel totally persuaded by is the idea that he is in some way typical. It isn’t necessary for the chosen person to be typical in order to be an illuminator.
Tuchman's power of storytelling is amazing! I also really enjoy how she is able to dump plenty of information (about what food people ate, what clothes they had etc. etc.) without it being an 'info dump'. And yes, I agree with you about our main character, Enguerrand VII. He is just not that interesting...
I was lucky in having two inspirational history teacher's, one at Grammar school, the other, my grandfather a haulier who was self taught, but both talked about history as if the most important part was 'story'. It surely worked on me.
I don't mind Enguerrand's presence all that much right now but I agree that centring the narrative around him wasn't necessary as it's plenty interesting on it's own. The plague chapter in itself was grim yet riveting but little additions on her part like "ghost ships" creeping into ports with the entire crew dead just bring attention to the fact that the book is littered with literary flourishes like this. Also while we're discussing the plague, being infected and undergoing that grisly death sounds horrible but surviving, especially those cases where literally evryone around you is now dead, also sounds like hell. Great pick for the book club, I'm having a blast reading this.
I like having Enguerrand as focal or vessel in the narrative. It seems he makes the actions personable , relationship and intrigue more viable . This opinion may change but for now he’s a welcome thread.
I am enjoying and learning a lot reading this and look forward to my time with it. The Coucy connection is defiantly not necessary but so far has not got in the way of the narrative, so I guess I don't care that more time is spent on one character than another. I personally think Charles of Navarre that keeps coming up and also changing sides is a fascinating person. One rabbit hole of many that this book has inspired in me. I have to refrain from going on searches every page to learn more.
Ch.5 was an absolute crazy reading experience. Between the details of the plague, Jewish persecution, rise of the flagellants…that chapter’s definitely been the highlight of the book so far for me.
I read this book last year and I'm still blown away by chapter 5. Incredible.
I am enjoying the book immensely, there is so much detail and often several great points of interest in each paragraph. I am reading it pencil in hand. It is a rich book and so engrossing. I'm excited to see how the group will develop over the coming months. Thanks for starting the book club and for the video.
I bought my dutch copy of this book in 1987 and it still stood unread on my shelves, until now. After this read I will have to throw it out as the edges are riddled with disease. The tropical climate is not conducive to keeping books in good condition 😐
Great book Steve. I have only finished the first three chapters but I am loving it. I can’t believe you didn’t read from description of their dress. The part about their short tunics (p. 54 in my copy) made me laugh out loud! Thanks for hosting the read a long.
I had a laugh-out-loud moment when after all the finery of the regular folk was described, a comment about how prostitutes had to wear their clothes inside out in order to identify their trade, just had me thinking about the 'walk of shame'...and I definitely giggled!
@@bad-girlbex3791 Tuchman's descriptions are definitely adding some spice to the Middle Ages! They have me laughing in some parts and grimacing in others (black death). When an author can get the reader to do that, I think that is a good sign of a well written book. She has me engaged in the reading.
Love this book choice Steve, and I have to say I have been hoping for years you would start a book club!! I was so excited for 2023 when I heard your announcement. I do like Enguerrand appearing every so often to bring the wide sweeping history into sharper focus. Perhaps as I continue with the book I will tire of it or on a second or third read. I am keeping up with the reading schedule and am surprised as there is so much in every chapter and I don't want to rush. My biggest take away so far is a tremendous appreciation for the author. It is one thing to think of the time, the research, the details she accumulated, but then another altogether to think of the skill with which she distilled all of it into such an accessible and enjoyable text. Thank you for this book choice. I am in the "it has been on my shelf for years and I have not read it" camp.
Jonique'a Smith:I see something behind you and it's moving.
I’m really interested in her use of The Monk of Saint Dennis. His narrative seems to guide the story along.
Yes, the issue with Coucy VII was one of my complaints as well, actually! There are times where it works, but I feel like it works less as it goes on--especially given that he dies in an awkward place in the narrative that leaves Tuchman having to summarize the conclusion to a lot of the big events we've been following. But I think Coucy's duplicitous nature is a good illustration of the way that national identity was just starting to come to fruition, and the way that political/military power is conniving and underhanded. There were some times where the diversions complicated the narrative though. Overall though, I still really really enjoyed this, and it made me wanna read some contemporary accounts like Froissart's Chronicles :)
I'm behind schedule with this one as I was only able to start in with it last night. I'm up to chapter 3 now and about to settle down for another stint, but I figured I'd swing by and see how it was going down with everyone else.
Personally, I'm really enjoying the Coucy history, and the centring of Enguerrand VII (every time I see his name I want to say "en garde!" in my head, lol) definitely makes me feel more grounded in this story. Because it *is* a story, it's just one that's a lot more true that the stories we find in the 'fiction' section of the bookshop.
I wasn't worried about reading a book about history when this book was announced; nor was the length of any unnecessary concern. The main negative thought I had running through my mind as I decided whether or not to read along with this was: "Yeah, but do I really care enough about 14th century France to bother?" I know that probably gets your bile raging Steve (I'm not a self-confessed 'mood reader' - I swear) but I'm of an age now where various annoying ailments - and their corresponding medications - are creating a kind of 'analysis paralysis' any time I try to decide what I want to read. Time is ebbing by, my eyesight is declining, my ability to sit for any long period of time is inhibited by pain, brain fog frequently threatens to impair my cognitive abilities in order to even process, let alone retain new information...and on top of that I seem to be sleeping for at least 12 hours 'per diem' on a GOOD day!
Because of all that, I need to choose carefully. Not because I want everything I read to be the best selection of the Western canon that I can squeeze into however many waking hours I have left on this earth, but because I want to get "something" out of each book that serves its own particular purposes. If that happens to be a biography of George Michael, sue me. If it means I'm working through Thomas Sowell's back catalogue, well that's just swell. Waiting on the next book in a series of Finnish Noir crime procedurals? Awesome. Trying to read Marcuse, Foucault, and Freire's 'Pedagogy Of The Oppressed'? Yes, I know. My brain is already enough of a mess without all that guff getting up in my head, but I've decided it's important. And that's all before I manage to work 'Anna Karenina' and 'War & Peace' into my not-too-distant-future-TBR-pile, on top of a few other biographies and memoir.
What I'm really just trying to say is that I don't want to be stuck reading a dud that once finished merely leaves me feeling "meh" and wishing I'd chosen something else. And that's what worried me when this title was first announced. BUT!!!!!! I decided to put my faith in what you said about this book, prior to the February kick-off (we might not agree on a bunch of things but I've yet to be steered in the wrong direction when it comes to your book recommendations) and just go for it.
So how is it going for me? Brilliantly! I don't care how unimportant or distasteful Enguerrand VII is. In all honesty the main centring character could have been any number of other individuals, but it's the utilising of a central character as an anchor to the whole space of time and place, that really works for me. I'm guessing that when you say that this device seems to have irked you somewhat during this reread, it's possibly just because you're now so familiar not just with the time period itself, but this actual account of it, that the anchor is entirely unnecessary to your ability to read it. Maybe it'll just becomes a noticeable distraction or an unnecessary annoyance to us too once we're also much more familiarly acquainted with the absolute mishegoss that was, 14th century France & England?
I don't know. Like I said, I'm only three chapters in, but Tuchman has done such a brilliant job of hooking me in almost immediately and starting her tale with just the right amount of focus and fun (c'mon, some of this stuff is an absolute riot!) that before I knew it, I was finding myself starting to see her weave threads together from not just across France, but all around Europe, to set a really secure scene on which to move forward. I'm sprinkling highlights all the way through my Kindle version because so many little bits just stop me in my tracks and make me want to remember them.
Oh and one last trivial little thing...as I'm reading the Kindle version, I've got the front cover that I think is the most up to date one in print? Mine is 701 pages and was published on 5th October 2017. I just think it's a really lovely cover and will hopefully help to appeal to those who are less inclined to read 45 year old books with late 70s cover art, lol. It's a small thing, but I really just appreciate that the cover has been adapted/updated to keep it looking as fresh as the text still sounds. Anyway, I have waffled enough. Time to go back to the 1300s and see what utter arseholery this Enguerrand VII bastard is up to now...pardon my French!
ONWARD!
PS. I'm putting #DonoghueMadeMeDoIt at the bottom of every update I leave on Goodreads. Maybe also #ClubSTD to really weird people out.
I'm curious why you consider reading Marcuse, Foucault, and Freire important 🤔
@@ThatReadingGuy28 To be better able to follow the pathway through leftist thinkers which helped to carve out, shape and ultimately completely alter the course of not only our education system, but all the main pillars that have either upheld or served our society over the years. I can listen to someone take me on a brief summary through these thinkers and activists and their work, but in order for the whole thing to make sense to me on a larger-scale (where I can see not just the examples I was previously introduced to, but how they in turn affected other offshoots of philosophy and pedagogy. I just have an annoyingly pedantic brain that doesn't like to barely understand a concept, I have to really dig in and read into it a lot more, so that I can feel comfortably acquainted with the subject. Not for any academic reason, or to even necessarily even discuss with anyone else. I just have to satisfy my odd little intellectual curiosities. Hope that made sense!
I so enjoyed reading your comment/essay and can relate to many of the issues you are dealing with and how they effect your reading and reading choices. Thank you for contributing ... hope to hear from you again!
Yes, I agree with your view on the Enguerrand de Coucy element, but I would go further: it’s annoying. Every time he came up I would roll my eyes and start skimming. I’m using the past tense, by the way, because I am not currently reading this book. I read it thirty years ago and still clearly remember much of it, including the sections you shared in this video.
I also think Enguerrand de Coucy has unnecesary appearences because he ends up being so small a character every time, and you don't end up comprehending or empathizing more when he comes up, the narrative already did that. And then the parallels are eye opening: the hundred year war with the Russian-Ukranian one, religion influencing how you behave with all this new ideologies, blaming a single person for bigger problems (like when they dicapitated and hunged that priest), activism that goes nowhere (poberty movements) because the powerful classes doesn't want them to go nowhere, climate change and natural disasters (even though ours is artificially made at this point), and of course the pandemic, the only difference is that we know so much more about it, but it affects us as terribly either way.
Excellent video!!!
One of my favourite books!
I think I can safely count myself as past the first part of this, and find it tough to read in long stretches but at the same time challenging to put down. Part of that's my own struggle with reading non-fiction in general, as I had the same struggle with Ash & Elm in January. Regardless, with my behind state, I'm still soldiering on a little further each week until I read the end.
Enguerrand doesn't really add much for me, either. If he was more central, perhaps, but he seems to be tossed in at the end of a chapter mostly as an afterthought to humanize parts of the history already discussed.