Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I can understand how after being ranked so high by some reviewers it may not live up to that for some.. My personal experience with the Timeless though, Im extremely impressed. Could not stop moving to the music and enjoying the great detail, speed and generally very natural and relaxed sound of these. Extremely happy with them after going from Sennheiser IE8 to the Timeless, they are different leagues. If I had to criticize the 7hz for something then it is that it doesnt have some of the bass slam that a dynamic driver can have (but the bass is plentifull and of great quality) and on a few songs I could hear small timbre imperfections. Fairly small gripes in a set that especially at this price point blew me away. It really does outperform anything (including fullsized headphones) up to at least 300-400€ that Ive heard.
Hello my friend, are you using it with a DAC amp? I'm tempted to buy one but i wonder if they will play OK in my smartphone/PC or if i will have to buy a DAC for it to play better.
I honestly just have to disagree with the whole point of the video. I’ve tried many iems around $200 and well above that margin and the Timeless is by far the best iem around the $200 mark. It should honestly be worth $300 for how great it is at this price point
I agree with you. The sound is awesome and is easily one of the best not only around the $200 mark, but as an experience in general. The fact that he gave the HEXA 5 stars makes me pretty skeptical of his abilities when it comes to judging audio, it's just some reference IEM with inoffensive neutral tuning and mediocre technicalities.
I accidently watched the Tin P1 review from a couple of years ago. Damn! The quality of your reviews have improved amazingly! The pitch of your voice back then made me feel like I was watching an infomercial. NOW, you almost have a therapist tone when you talk. SOO much better... and kind of soothing. The lighting nowadays is phenomally better and the same goes for the music. The only thing I'm still not so sure about is the mic. It definitely sounds more natural now than 2 years ago, but it feels a little distant or hollow or something. Maybe you need room treatment? I'm not an acoustic technician so I dunno. Anyway, just wanted to give you mad props for taking giant leaps in only two years. Way to go! 👍 ⭐⭐⭐⭐
Hello Mark, I really appreciate your honest review. Just wanted to add my 2 cents - I received them today and I think it's worth adding that Timeless sound quality really does >immensely< scale with source quality and power. Tried it with my smartphone and with my old AK70 mk1 DAP and to put it simply - it sounded correct, but also a bit meh. Then I tried it with my Shanling M8 DAP and it finally started showing its brilliance after setting it on either middle or high gain (even on M8's low gain setting, somehow it is feeling kind of dim and unimpressive). With M8 I would describe tonality as neutral, with long bass shelf - as mids and fruther extension to upper frequencies feels rather even to me. I fully agree with you that such tonal characteristics is simply not for everyone. I have to admit, I was rather surprised to hear your impressions regarding bass, because I personally find Timeless' bass to be one of the most pleasant (if not the most) bass I've heard in any IEMs. Imo, it has quickness and timbre typical for planar drivers and I find it actually really well controlled and textured - the bass shelf is extended probably slightly too far which makes lower midrange sound fuller but also less detailed. My final recommendation for people - if you would like to use it with smartphone or some cheap DAP/dongle then this might turn out disappointing. However if you are able to use it with some decent desktop setup or TOTL DAP then there is a chance you will be rewarded with amazing sound. What an irony, isn't it? Relatively cheap and "quality" IEMs, that require rather expensive source to really shine.
No need for expensive DAP...i tried first with Zishan DSD..meh. but connected using phone-uapp-tempotec sonata hd pro high gain using trrs adapter....marvelous. i need to crank 80% vol though.
Ive had mine for about 3months now and added foam tips which really helped. Plugged into my Sony NWZ A-17 Walkman adjusted the equalizer these sound phenomenal!!
I'll not refer to anything said before 13:40 since it is subjective. The Timeless was said to be the best planar iem so far, it was said by other reviewers (sorry, I an not mentioning names and postind links since my posts get deleted for doing). Now the fit - the fit of Timeless might be problematic but you may overcome it by using Lucos hard long foam tips which also eliminated 99% of the slight sibilance of the Timeless that it produces in some songs. Next the comparison in the review - Timeless beats the three: P1 rolled off in the bass, others lacking micro detail. It was said that Timeless is warm - well, more bass doesn't mean warm. The Timeless does great separation between sub- bass and bass and that leads to two 'issues' - it is said to have a bit slow attack to bass and categorised like warm. The Timeless has FR that is extremely close to Blessing Dusk2 but it has more energy, slightly more micro detail and slightly bigger sound staging. The Blessing Dusk2 is more refined but that makes it a bit boring sometimes, so you choose better refinement or more micro detail and energy and staging. Now, the Timeless being congested - well, might be depending on source. I used as a dongle the Helm Bolt, as a portable dac/amp the Hidizs DH80s and as dac+amp Burson Conductor+Soloist 3X and - the Timeless plays like an iem on staging only with the Helm Bolt! With the Hidizs and The Bursons it is wide, wider than the Blessing Dusk2! Finally, it was said that the Timeless is 'laid back warm sound' - wow!, it is so energetic and full of micro detailing that I cannot imagine how it is 'laid back'! So, the best planar iem that beats the Audeze and Tin ones - what do you need more!? Btw, the Timeless needs quite a lot more juice - a good portable dac/amp or even more. It needs more juice than the Blessing Dusk2. All comparisons done under A-B testing from the mentioned sources, feed by Tidal MQAs.
I have also both...different sound...hard to compare...but what they share the same is this I call it perfect cross...like exquisite tonal balance it doesn't matter what is boosted or little exaggerated and that's so hilarious ...it is quite rare at any price, and the other thing is this open back feeling in closed IEM...I am very happy to enjoy both...great contrast...✌️ 😁
As an ex owner of the P1 i was really interested in the 7hz timeless because of all the hype they have recently gotten by many reviewers that i tend to trust and hold their opinions highly but after watching your first impressions of the 7hz timeless i think I'll wait to maybe test a pair and not just blind buy.
@@SuperReview yes i actually did..i thought it was great....i used it balanced with the e1da power dac V2 and it was very impressive... The only reason I sold it was because of the power requirements to make the special come out and i was looking for a set i could use in bed or on the go... Till this day the best all around set that has kinda satisfied me is the blessing 2 dusk and i sold it also and ended up with the Mele because of it's weighted notes and fullness and what "i" perceive to be natural timber of instruments.... I'm looking to step up into the 1k territory next but I'm scared because I'm not a reviewer and that's real money.
@@Allaces305 If you like Mele you'll probably like Timeless because it's better in every way. Timeless does "weighted notes and fullness and natural timber of instruments" better than Mele by far. When you watch this reviewer you need to understand that he leans more toward lean sounding iems. He probably can't stand bass lol, which is why he underrates almost all good, even high quality warm sounding iems that are highly rated by other reviewers and users.
I use P1 daily for almost 2 years. Love P1 soo much because of their great detail and transients. Sweet lush vocals. Wait almost 2 years to find better upgrade alternative from P1. After trying 7hz Timeless... I fall in love with it. Already sold my P1 and wait for my own timeless to come. Is it really A tier IEM? Yes it is. But i Think you should find a proper and synergy source to drive it. I Use 1st gen Shanling M6. AK4495SEQ ver. It drive Timeless wonderful. Nice details and properly driven
Honestly the hype for the Timeless in my opinion is based on whether you love the way Planar Drivers typically sound in headphones and the same is true with IEMs. They sound very different than typical DD, BA, and Hybrid sets. So if from the beginning you don't typically prefer Planar headphones in the first place then you will not like the Timeless. However if you're a big fan of the way a Sundara sounds for example then you will likely absolutely love the Timeless. Also the reason why they're getting so much hype is not that they're the best sounding IEMs on the market it's that they're the best sounding Planar IEMs on the market. Personally I think the bass is one of the best qualities of the Timeless because of its speed and how it doesn't muddy anything even though it's emphasized which the same can't be said for most typical IEMs. And for me at least the Timeless isn't that sibilant it can be peaky at times but it's never sibilant at least for me.
I like the Sundara, but I can't say I'm a big fan of the Timeless either unfortunately. I think the tonality on the Sundara is more balanced (less bass, a more wide emphasis in the mid-treble). Apple and oranges, though!
@@Precogvision to be fair we are talking about a closed back ultra convenient IEM vs an Open Back headphone that costs $100 more and needs an amp. So some perspective does come into play. It gives a big Planar sound in a tiny form factor is what I'm getting at which some people might want like myself. There have been many times when I've traveled and I miss that Planar goodness from Sundara's that I just can't get out of basically any other IEM and now I can get something close to that in a portable IEM is kind of the point I'm trying to make. It doesn't replace big Planars it compliments them.
@@SuperReview well the speed of the bass is one thing. It's emphasized yes but it has that same speed quality to it and doesn't muddy the other frequencies at all. The treble and micro details are also similar as well as the mids which to me at least sound amazing and vastly better than basically all my other IEMs. Vocals are better on the Sundara as well as soundstage and imaging. Also I don't find the Timeless to be very forgiving the sound changes drastically to tip changes, source changes, and even the quality of how tracks are recorded. The best tips I've found for it in terms of sound and fit is SednaEarfit Crystals the Sedna Earfit Shorts sound congested and narrow in comparison. I've also found the soundstage adjusts to whatever you listen to because sometimes for me it sounds narrow and sometimes it sounds wide and vast. It basically sounds like what I would interpret a baby Sundara would sound to me which makes sense considering it's a small Planar driver in a IEM.
@@SuperReview These are my take on the similarities between Timeless and the Sundara. Taken from my Headfi review of the Timeless. "Running the 7hz Timeless from the 2.5mm balanced port of the Hiby R3 Pro Saber Dap in high gain reminded me a lot about the sound signature of Sundara. Similar tonality with the sound stage taken down a notch but still retaining its immersive quality. I am not sure what gives the Timeless its very immersive sonic qualities despite it being a closed-back iem. I take it to be an overall result of the combination of its sub-bass extension, forward vocals as well as great instrument separation and clarity. Not to mention the crisp and detailed treble. The width of the sound stage is comparable to something like the Fiio FD3 Pro. One can easily feel the musical notes travelling from extreme left to extreme right and vocals taking the central stage in various tracks. However, the soundstage limitations of this being a closed-back iem still applies. Tracks with a lot of instruments and atmospheric sounds work especially great with this iem."
I’m pretty frustrated that my timeless has not shipped yet from drop. I’ll probably have to cancel the order and get it elsewhere but I really want to try it because I do like my planar lcd-x headphones. I wonder how I will like the timeless compared to my favorite IEM the mangird tea. If the timeless has elevated bass yet feels very detailed and has a good treble extension I should be in love. I mean crinacle shilled the timeless so….
Listen to Porcupine Tree's - Russia On Ice. There is a section to the track that has deep bass. I have never heard bass played this way from any headphone or speaker for that matter. The Timeless handles bass like nothing I have heard before. These headphones for the money are the best I have heard for separation, treble and bass. The midrange can get slightly foggy when a lot is going on, but you can remove this with some EQ adjustments. In my opinion the 7hz Timeless are a 9/10. I do have too add I use PowerAmp driving FLAC files through a Fiio BTR7. This makes a huge difference to sound quality. Frankly if you are paying over £200 for headphones you are obliged to use lossless files driven through an LDAC.
Thank for the review. I've got the 7hz timeless and am enjoying them. However, it's definitely not perfect. It's early days for planar IEMs in many ways so hopefully we'll see more entrants and improvements. The detail is there. And for simpler music I really enjoy wearing them, especially outdoors where their slight brightness is an asset. However, spacing and positioning with more complex pieces like symphony orchestras are well behind some of my IEMs. They work for Bach but less well for Beethoven. And great for simpler 1950s music. But with expressive women's vocals where there's also more in the mids there's definitely have room for improvement. I find them very comfortable and there's a great range of tips. Also, good to use with more powerful sources.
Hey, I know you didn't love this, but it's my sound signature, I don't mind the aesthetics as you do, so I just ordered on Amazon. Used your link. Love my MELE but I suspect this will give me better detail, treble extension and separation while retaining the bass emphasis.
I agree about the Timeless being on the sibilant side. Otherwise perfect for me. I really love it for EDM music that doesn’t have vocals so you don’t notice the sibilant sounds.
Great review and comparison as always. 2 questions: 1. Is the oxygen better than the hana 2021 in anyway (to justify it's higher price point) or are they basically equal in sound and comfort? The graphs look identical (I'm not kidding). 2. Would the better of the two be an upgrade to the oh10 or more a sidegrade? (What aspects each perform better than the other?)
I think you did a good review because it is easy to understand your opinion (for me at least). I found some comments below should respect your personal taste. Different ears, different gears
I think whether you will love this iem depends a lot on whether you love planar tonality or not. Here is my small comparison with my Hifiman Sundara. "The feedback on this iem by BGGAR and the unbelievable impressions of this by Crinacle made me take a leap of faith and purchase the 7hz timeless. Suffice it is to say that, my trust in these reviewers was not misplaced. For about 6 months now, I have been using a Hifiman Sundara on my desktop audiophile setup and have been loving its sound signature. When sufficiently powered ( I am driving the Sundara currently using the Xduoo XA10 Dac/Amp through the XLR balanced port), Sundara has a full sound signature with tight bass, forward and lush vocals and crisp but non-fatiguing treble. The sound stage is also immersive though not the widest by any means. Running the 7hz Timeless from the 2.5mm balanced port of the Hiby R3 Pro Saber Dap in high gain reminded me a lot about the sound signature of Sundara. Similar tonality with the sound stage taken down a notch but still retaining its immersive quality. I am not sure what gives the Timeless its very immersive sonic qualities despite it being a closed-back iem. I take it to be an overall result of the combination of its sub-bass extension, forward vocals as well as great instrument separation and clarity. Not to mention the crisp and detailed treble. The width of the sound stage is comparable to something like the Fiio FD3 Pro. One can easily feel the musical notes travelling from extreme left to extreme right and vocals taking the central stage in various tracks.However, this simply beats the FD3 Pro when it comes to sub bass extension, instrument separation as well as overall clarity. The only advantage FD3 Pro has over the Timeless is its heavy mid bass punch and those who strictly prefer the Harman target or simply prefer sub bass over mid bass may not consider that an advantage as well. Tracks with a lot of instruments and atmospheric sounds work especially great with this iem. However, the soundstage limitations of this being a closed-back iem still applies.
@@nikolaygramchev Is it really unfair? Now a days, a lot of iems cost as much as headphones. Iems like Thieaudio Clairvoyance cost more than a Hifiman Ananda or an Audeze LCD2C. If a manufacturer can price an iem equivalent to or higher than certain audiophile headphones, why should us customers refrain from comparing headphones with iems? Coming to the 7hz Timeless. It has a similar tonality with Hifiman Sundara and the music played through both has a similar immersive quality as well. Despite one being an open backed headphone and other a closed back iem. My point is that Timeless sounds like a portable mini Sundara!! (Atleast through my setup) These are my observations from using both. Others may have a different opinion.
@@Hari-kx2er Hi, I am positive on your comparison and sorry, if it was not clear. And yes, many iems cost more than a better headphone so we have to make the right picks. Last, the Timeless has more emphasized sub-bass and bass than the Sundara, not that tight but meanwhile better separated. There is another Hifiman planar that has closer and better bass than the Timeless, sub-bass - depends.
@@nikolaygramchev I would be very interested if someone can point out the manufacturing cost of an iem like Thieaudio Clairvoyance and compare it to the manufacturing cost of a similarly priced planar like Hifiman Ananda. What is really the profit margin of an iem and how much does it differ from the profit margin of a headphone? Cheers!
@@Hari-kx2er There is nothing like and no more pricing done on manufacturing cost. It is done one added value, benefits, perception, marketing campaign cost, brand image, pipeline, ...
I hear a lot of build quality issues with most of these CHI-FI, as well as customer support to be problematic. I would love to try out the Moondrop Kato or Blessing 2 (or 2 dusk). I'm interested in Shure Aonic 4 since i've got the Shure SE215 wich I liked. The bass on the 215 is okay but I would love some better bass pressence. I like the vocals on the sure SE215. But I use those mostly for sports. Now I'm looking to transition from headphones to IEM's on my desktop as well for movies and music and occasional gaming. I do have Philips Fidelio X2R right now but I am looking for comfortable IEM's since most headphones (over ear) are not comfortable enough to me whilst the Shure SE215 are really comfy. My genres: Rock, metal, gymcore, pop punk, modern rock, alternative metal, and various techno styles and occasional edm and music like taylor swift.
Thanks for the review and generally agree with your impressions of the ones I've owned. Strange how my impression of the Timelines is very different. Very textured yet full sounding bass. Liquid mid-range. Very detailed without being overly etched. Perfect highs. Moondrop S8 comes off as thin with poor timbre compared.
S8 poor timbre against the Timeless? Really? The S8 timbre is way more natural, almost scarily true to life to my ears. Given the shallower insertion depth of the Timeless, people will get a resonance peak lower at a lower frequency (around 7-8k for me), which makes things like cymbals sound too forward. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Timeless, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the S8, except perhaps in bass physicality, the bass in the S8 is very detailed but not impactful.
It so fanny how many controversial opinion about Timeless low end presentation? One reviwer mentioned that bass on 7hz Timeless is the strongest point of iem and he newer heard any better bass qualitty under 1k$, then the other thinks that the bass presentation is the weakest side. I guess i should get it on 11.11 to find out by myself.
@@SuperReview Salty? Absolutely not. You can accept criticism especially when it is constructive. My opinion is that you confuse the listeners when you compare a DD with a planar. We all know you love Moondrop but It's better to compare the Kato with a similar product like the FIIO FD3 PRO for exemple than with the T7 planar. In front of the FD3 PRO the Kato can go quietly to bed because from a "technical" point of view quality of the sound (B, M ,T, details of the scene, imaging and quality of the cable, etc.) additionally the price ! There is no doubt the FIIO FD3 PRO buries the Moondrop Kato in first class! That's factual no ?
@@PAQUIDAN comparing DD with a planar may be a crispy helpful to those unfamiliar with the characteristic qualities of a planar sound. I believe that there's no reason one could't and shouldn't compare different types of drivers.
Personally I don’t care for the design but hopefully the hype behind this will inspire more innovation in planar IEMs down the road…I’m curious with the 4.4mm cable, do you have a favorite dac-amp for desktop use? I have an ifi zen dac but find the noise floor a little distracting.
Hi Mark I just received my Timeless...I just played The Cure as you referred for sibilance I heard no like no sibilance at all...and that was the best replay of this Album I ever heard...✌️ 😁 BTW loving Blessing2 ❤️
Great review as per usual ! You're detailed and honest. im looking for IEMs for Classical and Jazz music, what do u recommend? Would u recommend these 7hz Timeless ? thank u and keep up the great work!
I just got them, and it really depends on what type of jazz/classical you like. These excel with music with alot of layers like concertos (rachmoninoff's 2nd concerto is a great example of this), but they lack the slam and prescense of dd iems. They are great at separating everything and providing great detail, but have a soft presentation. I don't listen to too much jazz, but they sound great from what i've listened so far (again, the seperation and detail is great). The only issue i have is that it can sound sibilant occasionally and the high's are somewhat fatuiging, but I think that's because the included tips are bad (I've heard that the timeless is very fit dependent, so I'll be buying spinfits to fix this)
Are you planning on reviewing the Timeless AE? They added 3 dB of bass, improved the cable, claim to have smoothed out the treble and increased soundstage. I wonder what you think...
Intrigued but apprehensive. That's my standing with these as I ponder adding them to my collection. I'm suspect of overly hyped audio gear. I dived head first into the Tin P1 madness years ago and I could never bring myself to love them. They're not awful or anything, I even still have them. They're just not usually what I end up grabbing off my shelf when I head out for a walk. I generally run my IEM's off a BTR5, Q5S dac/amp.
I'll tell you what made me apprehensive...spending $2,000 on the 64 Audio u12t, $3,200 on the Empire Ears Odin, and another $1,700 on the Sony IER-Z1R. The risk is enormous when you're throwing a lot of money at an IEM where the expectations are an order of magnitude higher. And while I could have returned any of those, doing so would have cost me a penalty of two to three times the price of the 7Hz Timeless. I understand that mine is just the opinion of one person, but the 7Hz Timeless could very well be the best sounding IEM priced at $1,000 or less that I own, and it can hold its own against IEMs that cost even more. The 64 Audio u12t is still my favorite IEM, and the EE Odin is a very close second (so spending more money is no guarantee of audio supremacy). But I like the Timeless at least as much as the Empire Ears Valkyrie MKII (which cost $1,200 more), and it sounds considerably better than my Moondrop S8. I'm still putting my relatively new Sony IER-Z1R through its paces so it is too early to judge them.
Quite strange and UNNATURAL sound. Good bass excellent detail retrieval but the mix between mids and treble sounds so strange that becomes rather fatiguing when you switch to Sundara for relief purposes. But all changes when I connect it to Fiio UTSW5. Somehow Bluetooth losses together with akm chips help to “tame” this 7hz and the result is QUITE SATISFYING
I don’t really understand your criticisms, not only did the vast majority of reviewers rave about this. I bought it, and I agree with the others. I think this punches way above its weight. It is surprisingly resolving, and I feel the bass is tight, and itself resolving. I think I know why your review differs from my experience and that oftener reviews, you mentioned that even though there were lots of different sized tips, you admit you reviewed the IEM with the stock tip that does not really fit you, “a little bit small for me.” Well…a poor fitting tip will destroy the intended experience. I find these IEMs super sensitive to fit, and with a loose fit there will be a lot of loss of bass and treble. Why would anyone do that? Really shakes my impression of your review. I agree with Crinacle, this unit competes with IEM at $500 to $1,000 range. I bought it hoping for (and getting) and mild V shape resolving IEM that was also inexpensive. Fits the bill, and provides an alternative for my U12t and Dunu EST 112. The U12t is far superior, but sometimes you want a little more drama. And cheap enough to have great audio in higher risk environments. But I think for the VAST majority of people, this is all you need. The benefits of the high end IEM are real, but subtle. One other issue, you probably should use a little more power to drive there. The difference between driving it balanced on the iFi Blu vs iPhone or Qudelix is dramatic. Your observations of the blunted attack may simply be lack of overhead. These are a little more demanding than most other traditional IEM.
> I think I know why your review differs from my experience and that oftener reviews, you mentioned that even though there were lots of different sized tips, you admit you reviewed the IEM with the stock tip that does not really fit you No, I just don't love it. I don't prefer bassy sets to begin with, I think KATO and Hana21 do this signature better, Timeless is a bit sibilant for me, and I don't care for the form factor. It is just one opinion, it is normal that not everyone has the same opinion.
Just received my 7Hz Timeless a couple of days ago. The first thing that I'll say is that I don't think that I've ever disagreed with you more than I do on these. Secondly, change the cable!!! Yes, it looks good & handles well but it was quickly evident to me that it is an underperformer that is choking the life out of the Timeless. I got my Timeless in the 4.4mm balanced version. I too wasn't suitably impressed but then switched the cable to a Tripowin Altea 4.4mm & it made a world of difference! Bass definition increased along with better treble extension & detail. It felt like I had spent 100 to 200 dollars more on the iem's. The Altea's are not an overly expensive cable either & are a worthy consideration. At this point the stock cable is back in the box to never ever be used again. It's an insult to the Timeless & I find it amazing all of the positive reviews when using it. Thirdly, they perform best when suitably powered & used balanced. The same can be said for the PMV PP's (which also benefitted from the 4.4mm Altea) & most planar earphones I've encountered. Yes, they will perform well with your phone or dongle but not at their best.
Arthur, I appreciate the lengthy response, but to be honest I have dozens of cables, multiple amps, and balanced sources, and I've never heard a significant difference by swapping between them.
I hope they tame a little bit the harshness and they adjust the bass in the v 2 version.If they do it i think they will hit on the face iems that cost double-triple because they are very capable in the tremble extension
Have you (or anyone in the comments) used foamies for tips on this? I use them on my Sony EX800STs and Emotion Etymotic ER4XR exclusively and pretty much can't listen to IEMs with silicone as everything just sounds too thin, except for maybe the Etymotic's deep insertion triple flanges. Mine don't get in until around the 20th, so I have some time to decide if I want to pick up some foam tips for this before it arrives.
How is the soundstage, immagninarion, technicality, detail on this one, if compare to binary chopin, tanchjim orign, EA1000 fermat, kiwi orchestra? I'm looking for something that comes best with those traits within that price range. Please give some suggestion.
Hey man . Thanks for making vids. I’m a singer and I use the kz ZS10. They sound great tbh and I just always love to try out stuff and want better I guess lol . What do you recommend for me ?
For me, the major takeaway from your Timeless review is that Timeless doesn’t compare all all that well to similarly priced IEMs. Before that, I had mostly though of Timeless in relation to other planars which, in retrospect, was too narrow a way for me to think about it. Respecting your prediction that the Timeless driver will appear in other IEMs, do you think the sound might be improved that way?
The prediction is based on this: squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,7Hz_Timeless,Shuoer_Soloist_2 Two near earphones with 14.8mm planar drivers that graph almost the same -- I gotta guess it's the same driver, which suggests some new OEM available to anyone making IEMs. I don't know enough about tuning IEMs, but the same driver in different applications can absolutely sound different.
Reviewers like Crinacle compared Timeless with other planar iems because in his opinion this is the most well tuned planar iem to date that also does not sacrifice on technicalities. However, if you see his ranking list purely based on sound quality, you will realize that Timeless shares it 'A' grade with many higher priced iems of which some are single DD, and many are hybrids, BAs and few tribrids.
@@SuperReview Perhaps, the main purpose of a review is to help people who don’t have the item decide if it is worth their money. What a review shouldn’t be able to do is make something that sounded good before suddenly sound lousy. If that does happen, it probably isn’t the reviewers fault.
I already try Timeless and sell it immediately after a few days, it's not match my preference which is full-bodied vocal, extended but smooth treble, and punchy bass with slams, if you're preference just like me just don't buy Timeless, the vocal dry and laidback, the bass boom but not slams your eardrum, the treble is good extended but sometimes could be piercing
I have the timeless with the blue paper behind the nozzle and even though it is sub-bassy it is a nice alternative to my other IEMs. The bass is not textured or particularly fast but it is very engaging. The stand out features for me for the price are the detailed midrange and treble extension. The inclusion of the Acoustune tips and a super hard aluminum travel box is a nice bonus. This whole package makes it worthwhile not any one aspect. The only con that I have is , my set is hard to drive and does not sound good off the headphone jack on my phone and needs a decent travel dac/amp to keep the bass sounding anemic flabby and loose.
That sounds like the stereotypical headphone review that you would wirte if you would make an audiophile caricature. Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you :-) Except with the statement that 15 ohms IEMs would be "hard to drive".
@@kwinzman Yea probably I have too many headphones so I'm starting to sound like a reviewer, not my intent, but the observation is fair. I just meant they are hard to drive on my phone which was why I got them :( . Hopefully the Mele will take to my phone better.
How's the soundstage with 7hz timeless? Some say that the soundstage is narrow while others say it's above average so now I'm very confused. I listen a lot to orchestral and videogame soundtracks so soundstage is quite a must for me to enjoy my tracks. TIA
@@Error-tr9ke Great Question . Had to break out the good DAC and the track Bubbles by Yosi Horikawa since I don't listen to soundstagie tracks on IEMs. Bass had poor soundstage on my upgraded THX789, It was much better on the Mjolnir2 but not great . Treble and mids were ok not amazing. On my other test track - She's Crafty by the Beastie Boys , the soundstage was better due to the excellent treble extension. It's an IEM so soundstage is never great IMO. If you ever hear a great soundstage on a decent IEM plz let me know. I use open back headphones or STAX to enjoy soundstage.
First of all, really appreciate your reply. I've really been going back and forth with 7hz timeless and Moondrop Kato since I can get either till end of the holiday season at about $150 or $100, respectively. My current set are about
With all the spec talk, it comes down to whether or not you LOVE TO LISTEN to them. Clearly you don't. What do you LOVE to listen with? What makes you want to reach for them because the experience is so what you're looking for? Second, I don't listen to the Cure "Disintegration" or any other Cure. In fact, I don't usually listen to Rock n Roll. I listen to 99% acoustic, analog-Classical orchestral music. Classic Jazz-Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Mingus, Eric Dolphy, Miles, Ornette Coleman. I listen to singer-songwriter folkies. I listen to Blues. How does your review relate to me? My first test is whether a solo Steinway piano sounds like a piano.
These are some I love: ua-cam.com/video/0_MLClhEdKg/v-deo.html RE: Your second question, I don't really find genre-based generalizations very useful. I listen to a fairly wide range of music, and if I like a set I typically like it for everything.
As a source i have the ibasso dx312EXN paired with ibasso IT07 and Beyers Xelento. Im never fully happy with the sound. Ive tried Mest II, Kinera Nanna Imperial 2.0, Nanna I, Fiio Fa7, CA Solrais X and some other 1000+ and - dol iems and im still not happy with the sound. The closest is IT07 and was Kinera Nanna I/II but still not there. Kineras were great in mids but lacked bass extention. It07 has almost everything great but this balanced armature timbre is not natural for me. All others hybrids/tribrids had the same issue. Xelentos have great bass and bit more natural timbre but they sound thin and plastic in vocals. Having and loving the natural sound of the Hifiman Sundara ive decided to go with the Timeless. I think for some, like me, who pay a great attention to the timbre, there is no other way than the planars anymore. Lets see how they perform.
I waited to watch this until I had the 7Hz Timeless, because I ordered it a few days before your review. I got mine with a 2.5mm connector, and have listening on the BTR5 ( because that is my familiar setup ). I wasn't surprised that you weren't nuts about it, but it was a bit too much bass for your tastes. The detail and speed of response on the planar sets are hard to top for the money. The P1 has no bass, so it tracks that you like the sound on it. I do agree that new Hana is interesting, and I can't put my finger on what it is, but they are magic. -- I have a hard time taking your claims on the build quality of the Kato seriously. My two most recent sets from Moondrop are poorly built, and note that neither have left my desk. My Starfield which is missing about a quarter of its paint, and the Aria's loose cable connectors make me wonder when it is going to fail completely. At this point Moondrop have 6 months on a new IEM without major complaints, before I believe they can make something worth buying again.
That's not a great record with the Moondrops. FWIW, I have like 10x Moondrop IEMs, no issues except the stock cable with my Blessing 2 had reverse polarity on one side.
@@SuperReview worth noting that the tips are a bit different on the newer ones, they put them in plastic cases and didn't have that one grippy tip, and those black straight sides were white, but look the same. The basic ones were 5 sizes of typical silicone. Also thank you for knowing that those blue ones were Acoustune tips. I was curious, and wanted to find them, so I re-watched this, because I remembered you named one them.
Could you, by any chance, give your impressions on the Timeless & BTR5 combo? Would have been of much help to me as the BTR5 is the only source I have at the moment and am very interested in Timeless. I'm getting an impression that it's not exactly my kind of sound, but I just can't help it still. Always wanted to try a planar and all this unprecedented hype is not helping at all. What other IEMs do you have apart from the Moondrops?
@@juanblanco7898 I really like the Timeless BTR5 combo and think they go well together, but Timeless doesn't really need power, and can run fine straight off a $10 dongle too. I own a bunch of IEMs, my current rotation are Mele, Aria, and KZ ZEX. I already owned a planar and knew I loved the sound.
This is why I never listen to people who review product on this platform as it’s only one person opinion! Now I’ve had the p1 and I hated them and now I’ve got the timeless and I rate the over the p1. As a person who reviews iem a lot why would not replace the cable? I’ve always tired the cable but most times I use my own cables.
For most of my time spent with Timeless, I did use a different cable to make it feel nicer. I am quite influenced by aesthetics and feel, so I wanted to feel as good about the Timeless while listening.
I so completely love the Timeless with the Schiit Asgard 3 with multibit DAC. That's a complex-warm DAC with a high power class A amp. It's not as inspiring with lesser or more sterile DAC-amps, including even the Schiit Modi 3+/IEMagni combo.
I’m not sure if you would see this comment, but how do these compare to the IKKO OH10? Would the 7Hz timeless be a good upgrade? Or would it be smarter to go for the moondrop dusk?
I think OH10 is more V-shaped than Timeless, with more dominant bass. So Timeless is a bit better balanced in comparison. I think Timeless handles detail a bit better too. Dusk is, IMO, a big step up from both, but also pretty different, more midrange focused.
I should have trusted your review and not the other ones hyping that iem like a god tier. I am in the process of returning it because the sibilance and the timbre it's unbearable to my taste. All the other stuff as you said was very good, coming from a fiio fh3 the details and micro sounds were way better. Is there anything around that price point or just a bit higher that shares the details, bass and etc but has more pleasing vocals? I find my fh3 has pretty decent vocals but is back in the detail department and also not the thickest sound for heavy metal and rock. Maybe hanna 2021? I would appreciate if you could answer. Basically a mix of fh3 and timeless would be a good one for me. I was considering hanna for the 3d effect that you mentioned.
Hi Mark! Thanks for the review. Can you suggest me IEM under 200? I'm very sensitive to sibilance, my current IEMs have all problem with treble (cymbals makes me mads!) : Kz ZS10 pro, KZ ZAX, PR1 HI-FI. Thanks!
Creo que voy por el Kato o Hana, por el sonido más natural y más cercano, los dos espero que superarán mis Audiosense AQ 0 en realidad de sonido, dinámica de bajas frequencias y sonido más real en resto, sobre todo más agudas...
Surprising that you endorse the original P1. Other reviewers did not. I have the P1 and Kato and prefer Kato. Otherwise I like the openness of P1 but it is so difficult to drive specially when I am in the street. Having P1 (original) and Kato, does it make any sense to get timeless?
Based on the wide ranging reviews and comments from people who own the Timeless, it makes me wonder if there's some significant unit variation... Maybe those who received a good unit (like Crin) think it shoots way above it's price point, while others have received faulty units, or just not as well tuned. Maybe this all comes to QC issues. It would be interesting to see reviewers swap units and see if their opinion changes.
Just seeing a lot of hd660s reviews, i got that it's just opinions. And it's a great thing! if you have an idea about their tastes and how yourself evaluate the sound quality. Some say it's even clearer in detail than hd600, but darker. Others says i'ts just a dark mess. I do even heard people saying it's the brighter ( (and how a person percieve bright, it's from upper mids or highs? that's the point) with best technicalities (another partial subjective topic). And i know some reviwers that i like says the 660s i'ts their favorite headphone, the most natural ones (over focals, anandas), and others just saying it's overpriced bullshit. We need to get used to a wide range of opinions...
I've been doing some EQ with the timeless. An interesting found is that the sibilance of timeless I heard actually come from the slight drop starting from 4khz if you compared the fr to IEF target. I boost the treble from 4k to 10k and it basically removes the sibilance and reduce that somewhat dark tone. I would personally give it a 4 star. Wished it was a little less bass oriented.
@@SuperReview I use AutoEQ to generate graphicEQ settings to use with euqalizer APO on windows and wavelet on android. I have it compensated to both IEF target and harmanIE2019v2 (both with customized bass shell).
Sorry to hear that you don't love them. I absolutely do love them and I own some pretty damned expensive IEMs costing thousands of dollars. Glad I just pushed your reservations aside and bought them anyway. The price of admission is absurdly low and the rewards were potentially too great to be dissuaded by a naysayer or two (or a nit picker or two). This was easily the best $220 I spent on anything audio related in the last 30 years.
this is the first time i come to your channel, and i already love it. I have a question, if you can only choose one, will you take 7hz Timeless or Kato? thank you before. Subbed !
Many reviewers are reporting that these scale with power and throw 1 watts at them. Did you happen to notice something similar when you threw more power at it?
@@KaneAmaroq Not true, DAC or amps with more power do bring out more dynamics and body to sound. I have an S9 Pro and a HIP Dac V2, and while I can achieve the same volume from both, the HIP DAC V2 delivers a fuller sound on my Oppo PM3. They aren't the be all end all headphone, but certainly sound better with more power.
@@KaneAmaroq you obviously don’t have much experience with planar magnetic drivers. Power matters! If you have ever tried the Hifiman he-6 you would know they don’t perform worth a damn on lower power amps. Some people hook them directly to a full-size speaker amp in order to get them to perform properly. The hifiman susvara is the same way.
My personal take running this 2.5mm - Soundstage is 3D but extremely narrow for an iem that doesn't do deep fit - Vocals don't exactly sound amazing either, it comes across overly analytical - Bass region does overpower the lower mids, extremely prominent in rock genres - Tuning is excellent, nothing much to fault there - Note weights are somewhat blunted, and bass slam also suffers from this - Cable is bad, the stock one has such a recessed treble presentation Overall it's alright because of the tuning but it's not as amazing as all the other reviews hype it to be. The sound is pseudo planar/dynamic more so than an actual planar - I'm sure hifiman and audeze owners can relate since the speed and detail just isn't up to par (but fine for the price I guess). Selling mine away but an additional tip would be to use wide bore eartips to mitigate the narrow soundstage and reduce the awkward bass slam.
It think I am gonna get the Timeless Mark😄😉...also I didn't get og Hana yet...but tomorrow I am gonna get them...I have the O2, but still want to here the second tuning to Oxygen...unless you would have some other advice for 11.11🙋♂️❗️
Thanks Mark...I can shop now ony on Ali because of the tax situation in my country...but I want to get Blessing2 for $250...Hana will have to probably wait again ✌️😁
What would you recommend to someone looking for a more analytical and lean sounding IEM at this price point? I value the speed, sounstage size, instrument separation (a sense of space between them rather then pure definition/resolution) and a balance between microdynamics and macro dynamics. I have an Ikko OH10 and want something a bit more tonally balanced/neutral without sacrificing perceived techical abilities. Timbre is not a top priority to me. I'm prepared to loose in soundstage size and the "bite"/sharp leading edge to the notes (significant upper mid accent) due to a different tuning, but I certainly don't want anything that sounds a lot softer, darker, warmer and slower. I don't feel like I have any decent options except the Kato, but I'm worried about it's single DD technical capabilities. Also I'm still not sure if those are a "warmish" sounding set or rather cold and somewhat thin. I'd go for the FDX1 if it wasn't so hard to get here where I live and the accounts on it's somewhat compressed dynamics. Slightly metallic timbre? I think I can live with that. God, I feel like it's a tough post to read through, sorry.
Have you heard the Blessing 2? They have lots of bite and separation, and certainly aren't warm or congested. Just be aware that they won't be a big step up from what you have. What they do is excellent, though
@@kylerclarke2689 haven't heard them, sadly. I'd like too that's for sure. I've read a lot about their shortcomings, though, so I have some doubts. It's all likely in relation to more expensive sets, but it implants itself deeply in mind and forms a bias nevertheless. I think I would be OK with their purportedly unengaging character. Things like treble extesion which is, again purportedly, not that great are another story, though. Them being not a big step ahead from what I've got sounds discouraging to me for sure (since it's a pretty big step ahead in terms of price for me), but this might be subjective, so...
@@juanblanco7898 idfk what treble extension is but I own the S8 as well partly because of claims of this "extension" and prefer the B2's treble. And they're definitely engaging. I know it's not advisable to go in blind but honestly, too many reviews just lead to reading 100 contradictory opinions. I hope you find something that works for you, anyway!
@@SuperReview Thanks! I have my doubts about them, but it looks like I've just got to listen to them somehow. I may be content with a sidegrade, but not a downgrade in terms of technical performance which I suspect may be the case with the New Hana and KATO. So that pretty much leaves me with Blessing 2 Indeed, I guess. They aren't HD600 kind of dull neutral, are they? To hell with bass, but I like my mid and highs transparent and slighly bright
Would getting the SE version over the 4.4 one make any difference in sound quality? I'd prefer the 3.5 for its versatility, but only if I am getting basically the same SQ.
Balanced results in higher output power versus SE on amps/dacs that have both. Balanced does have a bit better sound in my experience, but if you have ample power with SE, I wouldn't immediately go to Balanced. If you have an amp with both, and only use an amp, you might as well go for balanced
@@Vaterraman The only time there'd be any sonic difference is if you either A, did not initially have enough power for the device on SE (Some headphones are very insensitive, Arya/Susvara come to mind), or B, the manufacturer did not design the SE out as well as the balanced out on their specific device, such as the Schiit Magnius. Otherwise, in terms of how they function, there is no difference in quality between the two. Just more power. This is of course speaking about a balanced output. From DAC to Amp, there are benefits of balanced audio related to interference and ground loops, but once it's reached the amp, it's all up to the design of the amp itself.
@@jaroslavfricek7772 Not really, only if they are insensitive. Extra power only results in more volume, and amp's ability to drive a load correctly is not a power issue.
I own the FH5 which (if I understand correctly) is similar. Imho it isn't an upgrade, but I prefer what the 7hz is doing. The vocals aren't as in my head, and the tuning isn't as intense, while still being plenty fun. Bass level seems comparable. I wouldn't get the 7HZ as an upgrade, just a different flavor!
what dac/amp did you used to graph this planar iem ? what would have happened if you graphed a planar iem from a low power source such as apple $10 dongle dac ?
I primarily listen via Sony A105 and Hiby R5s. Graphs are made on an Apple dongle: squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,7Hz_Timeless They all sound the same.
@@SuperReview in a week i will receive and test my shuoer s12 (very close to 7hz) with my apple dongle dac (that many say it won't have enough power) and compare it with btr5 that is about 10x more powerfull and i believe i will come to the same conclusion that all dacs sounds almost the same and that audiophilia is a mental distortion that bends reality through our subjective impressions.
Always best if you can test for yourself. If you think you hear a difference, try to get someone to help do a blind test, even a short one is enough -- watch confidence evaporate.
Hola, no entiendo todo muy bien en inglés, pero entendí de que no te convencen de todo. Ayer visto en you tube una comparativa de sonido de varios modelos y distintos precios y la verdad que no suena como yo esperaba después de tantas buenas críticas. A mi me parecía un sonido algo alejado y muy detallado - como AKG - como ver un concierto en ua sala grande deportiva. Algo frío.... Espero que comparando con Kato, Kato quedaría con el sonido más cercano y más humano....?
@@SuperReview por eso tengo ahora dudas sobre 7hz, porque parece que son algo poco realistas, y el Kato con falta de cuerpo en mitad de frequencias - desde sub bajos hasta mitad de medios.... Ya no se pensar.... Y no se como quedaría Ikko 10 en estas comparativas.... Por lo visto Tri 3 están bien..... Pero no se a final cual de ellos podría mejorar mis Audiosense AQ 0 en Algo más de realidad y un poquito más dinámica en sub y bajos
It just seems like you can't pick up or discern the detail, which kind of discredits all your other reviews of higher end monitors. the fact that you rated the Kato higher or prefer it is insane to me, truly.
You either got a bad set or you didn’t use a powerful enough amp. Planar magnetic drivers require quite a bit of power to properly perform. I’m not talking about volume levels, I’m talking about brute power at lower volumes. All planar magnetic drivers perform better with proper power. The 7hz punches way above its weight class, it’s one hell of a bargain and a great earphone for its price. Plugging it directly into a phone isn’t going to cut it, I wouldn’t recommend it if that’s what you are looking for. Plug it into a good amp and you will be rewarded with one of the best earphones I have ever heard.
@@SuperReview I see that you're dismissing power and amping as possible improvement. Even from objectivist camp, any amp distorts, and distorts more when closer to its max power output. So it'd be better to listen to more powerful source / amp but with lower gain due to less distortion.
So, as a first true and good IEM which one - Kato or 7Hz Timeless? Basically ~200 USD, music primarily R&B, Jazz and lots of Currently mainly use HD600/HD58x open back headphones from Sennheiser, along with bluetooth PXC 550-II. Thanks.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I can understand how after being ranked so high by some reviewers it may not live up to that for some.. My personal experience with the Timeless though, Im extremely impressed. Could not stop moving to the music and enjoying the great detail, speed and generally very natural and relaxed sound of these. Extremely happy with them after going from Sennheiser IE8 to the Timeless, they are different leagues. If I had to criticize the 7hz for something then it is that it doesnt have some of the bass slam that a dynamic driver can have (but the bass is plentifull and of great quality) and on a few songs I could hear small timbre imperfections. Fairly small gripes in a set that especially at this price point blew me away. It really does outperform anything (including fullsized headphones) up to at least 300-400€ that Ive heard.
Hello my friend, are you using it with a DAC amp? I'm tempted to buy one but i wonder if they will play OK in my smartphone/PC or if i will have to buy a DAC for it to play better.
@@Parkwaydriver Im using it with a Fiio BTR5. Phone should be able to power it, though a dacamp will certainly sound better
@@phalanger1 Great, thanks for answering
@@phalanger1 nice to hear this, i just bought my ifi go blu, im eyeing also in this iem ;) and im using my old co donguri shizuku.
@@phalanger1 same bro got 7hz with 2.5 jack and a BTR5 and wow it blew my mind best sounding IEM experience I've ever had.
Man, I've just discovered your channel and now am binge-watching all your videos. Thanks for the amazing content, I really love the way you talk.
🤙
I honestly just have to disagree with the whole point of the video. I’ve tried many iems around $200 and well above that margin and the Timeless is by far the best iem around the $200 mark. It should honestly be worth $300 for how great it is at this price point
👍
I agree with you. The sound is awesome and is easily one of the best not only around the $200 mark, but as an experience in general. The fact that he gave the HEXA 5 stars makes me pretty skeptical of his abilities when it comes to judging audio, it's just some reference IEM with inoffensive neutral tuning and mediocre technicalities.
How would u compare them to ap5 or quintets?looking to buy one of them.
I have truthear zero red and I didn't love it so much. Do you recommend me to buy timeless?
I absolutely love the Timeless, even more than my B2Dusk. However I totally respect your opinion and preference. Peace
I accidently watched the Tin P1 review from a couple of years ago. Damn! The quality of your reviews have improved amazingly! The pitch of your voice back then made me feel like I was watching an infomercial. NOW, you almost have a therapist tone when you talk. SOO much better... and kind of soothing. The lighting nowadays is phenomally better and the same goes for the music. The only thing I'm still not so sure about is the mic. It definitely sounds more natural now than 2 years ago, but it feels a little distant or hollow or something. Maybe you need room treatment? I'm not an acoustic technician so I dunno. Anyway, just wanted to give you mad props for taking giant leaps in only two years. Way to go! 👍 ⭐⭐⭐⭐
Hello Mark, I really appreciate your honest review. Just wanted to add my 2 cents - I received them today and I think it's worth adding that Timeless sound quality really does >immensely< scale with source quality and power. Tried it with my smartphone and with my old AK70 mk1 DAP and to put it simply - it sounded correct, but also a bit meh. Then I tried it with my Shanling M8 DAP and it finally started showing its brilliance after setting it on either middle or high gain (even on M8's low gain setting, somehow it is feeling kind of dim and unimpressive). With M8 I would describe tonality as neutral, with long bass shelf - as mids and fruther extension to upper frequencies feels rather even to me. I fully agree with you that such tonal characteristics is simply not for everyone.
I have to admit, I was rather surprised to hear your impressions regarding bass, because I personally find Timeless' bass to be one of the most pleasant (if not the most) bass I've heard in any IEMs. Imo, it has quickness and timbre typical for planar drivers and I find it actually really well controlled and textured - the bass shelf is extended probably slightly too far which makes lower midrange sound fuller but also less detailed.
My final recommendation for people - if you would like to use it with smartphone or some cheap DAP/dongle then this might turn out disappointing. However if you are able to use it with some decent desktop setup or TOTL DAP then there is a chance you will be rewarded with amazing sound. What an irony, isn't it? Relatively cheap and "quality" IEMs, that require rather expensive source to really shine.
Thanks for the report 👍
No need for expensive DAP...i tried first with Zishan DSD..meh. but connected using phone-uapp-tempotec sonata hd pro high gain using trrs adapter....marvelous. i need to crank 80% vol though.
Is the Fiio BTR5 capable of driving 7hz timeless?
it's just louder my dude
Pro tip if you want it to sound as good on a dongle: turn the volume up! =)
Ive had mine for about 3months now and added foam tips which really helped. Plugged into my Sony NWZ A-17 Walkman adjusted the equalizer these sound phenomenal!!
I'll not refer to anything said before 13:40 since it is subjective. The Timeless was said to be the best planar iem so far, it was said by other reviewers (sorry, I an not mentioning names and postind links since my posts get deleted for doing).
Now the fit - the fit of Timeless might be problematic but you may overcome it by using Lucos hard long foam tips which also eliminated 99% of the slight sibilance of the Timeless that it produces in some songs. Next the comparison in the review - Timeless beats the three: P1 rolled off in the bass, others lacking micro detail. It was said that Timeless is warm - well, more bass doesn't mean warm. The Timeless does great separation between sub- bass and bass and that leads to two 'issues' - it is said to have a bit slow attack to bass and categorised like warm. The Timeless has FR that is extremely close to Blessing Dusk2 but it has more energy, slightly more micro detail and slightly bigger sound staging. The Blessing Dusk2 is more refined but that makes it a bit boring sometimes, so you choose better refinement or more micro detail and energy and staging. Now, the Timeless being congested - well, might be depending on source. I used as a dongle the Helm Bolt, as a portable dac/amp the Hidizs DH80s and as dac+amp Burson Conductor+Soloist 3X and - the Timeless plays like an iem on staging only with the Helm Bolt! With the Hidizs and The Bursons it is wide, wider than the Blessing Dusk2! Finally, it was said that the Timeless is 'laid back warm sound' - wow!, it is so energetic and full of micro detailing that I cannot imagine how it is 'laid back'! So, the best planar iem that beats the Audeze and Tin ones - what do you need more!?
Btw, the Timeless needs quite a lot more juice - a good portable dac/amp or even more. It needs more juice than the Blessing Dusk2.
All comparisons done under A-B testing from the mentioned sources, feed by Tidal MQAs.
Thanks for the long take. Feel free to link to other reviews in my comments, not a problem for me.
People dont purchase iems to pair with amps like soloist and conductor. Iems are primarily for portability.
Do your self a favor and buy the ifi go blu, for portability, you'll love the ifi go blu, you tube it if you Haven't heard about it,
This the best iem I've got. Loving this set, my blessing 2 is for sale now.
What's your take on Timeless vs. Blessing?
Can I buy it?
Keep both...both are phenomenal...❤️❗️💯😁
I have also both...different sound...hard to compare...but what they share the same is this I call it perfect cross...like exquisite tonal balance it doesn't matter what is boosted or little exaggerated and that's so hilarious ...it is quite rare at any price, and the other thing is this open back feeling in closed IEM...I am very happy to enjoy both...great contrast...✌️ 😁
As an ex owner of the P1 i was really interested in the 7hz timeless because of all the hype they have recently gotten by many reviewers that i tend to trust and hold their opinions highly but after watching your first impressions of the 7hz timeless i think I'll wait to maybe test a pair and not just blind buy.
Did you like the P1?
@@SuperReview yes i actually did..i thought it was great....i used it balanced with the e1da power dac V2 and it was very impressive... The only reason I sold it was because of the power requirements to make the special come out and i was looking for a set i could use in bed or on the go... Till this day the best all around set that has kinda satisfied me is the blessing 2 dusk and i sold it also and ended up with the Mele because of it's weighted notes and fullness and what "i" perceive to be natural timber of instruments.... I'm looking to step up into the 1k territory next but I'm scared because I'm not a reviewer and that's real money.
@@Allaces305 If you like Mele you'll probably like Timeless because it's better in every way. Timeless does "weighted notes and fullness and natural timber of instruments" better than Mele by far. When you watch this reviewer you need to understand that he leans more toward lean sounding iems. He probably can't stand bass lol, which is why he underrates almost all good, even high quality warm sounding iems that are highly rated by other reviewers and users.
@@Allaces305 Just watch Crinacle's review on these iems on his channel.
@@Allaces305 ua-cam.com/video/dCgPrQ8yYJU/v-deo.html
The tips that you think are "odd" sound by far the best to me. Much more balanced sounding.
That's the best part of including a bunch of tip types, good to find what works for you 👍
I use P1 daily for almost 2 years.
Love P1 soo much because of their great detail and transients. Sweet lush vocals.
Wait almost 2 years to find better upgrade alternative from P1.
After trying 7hz Timeless... I fall in love with it. Already sold my P1 and wait for my own timeless to come.
Is it really A tier IEM? Yes it is. But i Think you should find a proper and synergy source to drive it.
I Use 1st gen Shanling M6. AK4495SEQ ver. It drive Timeless wonderful. Nice details and properly driven
energy source doesn't matter
Honestly the hype for the Timeless in my opinion is based on whether you love the way Planar Drivers typically sound in headphones and the same is true with IEMs. They sound very different than typical DD, BA, and Hybrid sets. So if from the beginning you don't typically prefer Planar headphones in the first place then you will not like the Timeless. However if you're a big fan of the way a Sundara sounds for example then you will likely absolutely love the Timeless. Also the reason why they're getting so much hype is not that they're the best sounding IEMs on the market it's that they're the best sounding Planar IEMs on the market. Personally I think the bass is one of the best qualities of the Timeless because of its speed and how it doesn't muddy anything even though it's emphasized which the same can't be said for most typical IEMs. And for me at least the Timeless isn't that sibilant it can be peaky at times but it's never sibilant at least for me.
What characteristic do you find similar between Timeless and Sundara?
I like the Sundara, but I can't say I'm a big fan of the Timeless either unfortunately. I think the tonality on the Sundara is more balanced (less bass, a more wide emphasis in the mid-treble). Apple and oranges, though!
@@Precogvision to be fair we are talking about a closed back ultra convenient IEM vs an Open Back headphone that costs $100 more and needs an amp. So some perspective does come into play. It gives a big Planar sound in a tiny form factor is what I'm getting at which some people might want like myself. There have been many times when I've traveled and I miss that Planar goodness from Sundara's that I just can't get out of basically any other IEM and now I can get something close to that in a portable IEM is kind of the point I'm trying to make. It doesn't replace big Planars it compliments them.
@@SuperReview well the speed of the bass is one thing. It's emphasized yes but it has that same speed quality to it and doesn't muddy the other frequencies at all. The treble and micro details are also similar as well as the mids which to me at least sound amazing and vastly better than basically all my other IEMs. Vocals are better on the Sundara as well as soundstage and imaging. Also I don't find the Timeless to be very forgiving the sound changes drastically to tip changes, source changes, and even the quality of how tracks are recorded. The best tips I've found for it in terms of sound and fit is SednaEarfit Crystals the Sedna Earfit Shorts sound congested and narrow in comparison. I've also found the soundstage adjusts to whatever you listen to because sometimes for me it sounds narrow and sometimes it sounds wide and vast. It basically sounds like what I would interpret a baby Sundara would sound to me which makes sense considering it's a small Planar driver in a IEM.
@@SuperReview These are my take on the similarities between Timeless and the Sundara. Taken from my Headfi review of the Timeless.
"Running the 7hz Timeless from the 2.5mm balanced port of the Hiby R3 Pro Saber Dap in high gain reminded me a lot about the sound signature of Sundara. Similar tonality with the sound stage taken down a notch but still retaining its immersive quality. I am not sure what gives the Timeless its very immersive sonic qualities despite it being a closed-back iem. I take it to be an overall result of the combination of its sub-bass extension, forward vocals as well as great instrument separation and clarity. Not to mention the crisp and detailed treble. The width of the sound stage is comparable to something like the Fiio FD3 Pro. One can easily feel the musical notes travelling from extreme left to extreme right and vocals taking the central stage in various tracks. However, the soundstage limitations of this being a closed-back iem still applies. Tracks with a lot of instruments and atmospheric sounds work especially great with this iem."
I’m pretty frustrated that my timeless has not shipped yet from drop. I’ll probably have to cancel the order and get it elsewhere but I really want to try it because I do like my planar lcd-x headphones. I wonder how I will like the timeless compared to my favorite IEM the mangird tea. If the timeless has elevated bass yet feels very detailed and has a good treble extension I should be in love. I mean crinacle shilled the timeless so….
He literally did not shill them lmao
@@brendonelliott4499 I’m joking. He joked about it in the video. I love crinacle. He is pretty much a legend.
@@jdk_360 lol I figured you were joking. I didn’t want people who haven’t seen the video to take that at face value. Sorry to ruin the fun🤓
Listen to Porcupine Tree's - Russia On Ice. There is a section to the track that has deep bass. I have never heard bass played this way from any headphone or speaker for that matter. The Timeless handles bass like nothing I have heard before. These headphones for the money are the best I have heard for separation, treble and bass. The midrange can get slightly foggy when a lot is going on, but you can remove this with some EQ adjustments. In my opinion the 7hz Timeless are a 9/10.
I do have too add I use PowerAmp driving FLAC files through a Fiio BTR7. This makes a huge difference to sound quality. Frankly if you are paying over £200 for headphones you are obliged to use lossless files driven through an LDAC.
Thank for the review. I've got the 7hz timeless and am enjoying them. However, it's definitely not perfect. It's early days for planar IEMs in many ways so hopefully we'll see more entrants and improvements.
The detail is there. And for simpler music I really enjoy wearing them, especially outdoors where their slight brightness is an asset. However, spacing and positioning with more complex pieces like symphony orchestras are well behind some of my IEMs. They work for Bach but less well for Beethoven. And great for simpler 1950s music. But with expressive women's vocals where there's also more in the mids there's definitely have room for improvement.
I find them very comfortable and there's a great range of tips. Also, good to use with more powerful sources.
There is no $200 iem that will be perfect. There are always inperfections
Hey, I know you didn't love this, but it's my sound signature, I don't mind the aesthetics as you do, so I just ordered on Amazon. Used your link. Love my MELE but I suspect this will give me better detail, treble extension and separation while retaining the bass emphasis.
I agree about the Timeless being on the sibilant side. Otherwise perfect for me. I really love it for EDM music that doesn’t have vocals so you don’t notice the sibilant sounds.
totally agree
Gracias por esta análisis, por tu opinión como melomano y no solo información técnica, que muchas veces no da garantía de calidad de disfrute musical
Great review and comparison as always.
2 questions:
1. Is the oxygen better than the hana 2021 in anyway (to justify it's higher price point) or are they basically equal in sound and comfort? The graphs look identical (I'm not kidding).
2. Would the better of the two be an upgrade to the oh10 or more a sidegrade? (What aspects each perform better than the other?)
I heard Oxygen and Hana21 months apart so can't say much more than they sound the same as far as I remember. I like my Hana21 better than my OH10.
I think you did a good review because it is easy to understand your opinion (for me at least). I found some comments below should respect your personal taste. Different ears, different gears
It's fine, people get too invested in their favorites 🤷♀️
I think whether you will love this iem depends a lot on whether you love planar tonality or not. Here is my small comparison with my Hifiman Sundara.
"The feedback on this iem by BGGAR and the unbelievable impressions of this by Crinacle made me take a leap of faith and purchase the 7hz timeless. Suffice it is to say that, my trust in these reviewers was not misplaced. For about 6 months now, I have been using a Hifiman Sundara on my desktop audiophile setup and have been loving its sound signature. When sufficiently powered ( I am driving the Sundara currently using the Xduoo XA10 Dac/Amp through the XLR balanced port), Sundara has a full sound signature with tight bass, forward and lush vocals and crisp but non-fatiguing treble. The sound stage is also immersive though not the widest by any means.
Running the 7hz Timeless from the 2.5mm balanced port of the Hiby R3 Pro Saber Dap in high gain reminded me a lot about the sound signature of Sundara. Similar tonality with the sound stage taken down a notch but still retaining its immersive quality. I am not sure what gives the Timeless its very immersive sonic qualities despite it being a closed-back iem. I take it to be an overall result of the combination of its sub-bass extension, forward vocals as well as great instrument separation and clarity. Not to mention the crisp and detailed treble. The width of the sound stage is comparable to something like the Fiio FD3 Pro. One can easily feel the musical notes travelling from extreme left to extreme right and vocals taking the central stage in various tracks.However, this simply beats the FD3 Pro when it comes to sub bass extension, instrument separation as well as overall clarity. The only advantage FD3 Pro has over the Timeless is its heavy mid bass punch and those who strictly prefer the Harman target or simply prefer sub bass over mid bass may not consider that an advantage as well. Tracks with a lot of instruments and atmospheric sounds work especially great with this iem. However, the soundstage limitations of this being a closed-back iem still applies.
A bit unfair to compare to a planar headphone but it stands well, a!?
@@nikolaygramchev Is it really unfair? Now a days, a lot of iems cost as much as headphones. Iems like Thieaudio Clairvoyance cost more than a Hifiman Ananda or an Audeze LCD2C. If a manufacturer can price an iem equivalent to or higher than certain audiophile headphones, why should us customers refrain from comparing headphones with iems?
Coming to the 7hz Timeless. It has a similar tonality with Hifiman Sundara and the music played through both has a similar immersive quality as well. Despite one being an open backed headphone and other a closed back iem.
My point is that Timeless sounds like a portable mini Sundara!! (Atleast through my setup)
These are my observations from using both. Others may have a different opinion.
@@Hari-kx2er Hi, I am positive on your comparison and sorry, if it was not clear. And yes, many iems cost more than a better headphone so we have to make the right picks. Last, the Timeless has more emphasized sub-bass and bass than the Sundara, not that tight but meanwhile better separated. There is another Hifiman planar that has closer and better bass than the Timeless, sub-bass - depends.
@@nikolaygramchev I would be very interested if someone can point out the manufacturing cost of an iem like Thieaudio Clairvoyance and compare it to the manufacturing cost of a similarly priced planar like Hifiman Ananda. What is really the profit margin of an iem and how much does it differ from the profit margin of a headphone?
Cheers!
@@Hari-kx2er There is nothing like and no more pricing done on manufacturing cost. It is done one added value, benefits, perception, marketing campaign cost, brand image, pipeline, ...
Good review! I'll buy Hanna! Thank you!
I hear a lot of build quality issues with most of these CHI-FI, as well as customer support to be problematic.
I would love to try out the Moondrop Kato or Blessing 2 (or 2 dusk).
I'm interested in Shure Aonic 4 since i've got the Shure SE215 wich I liked. The bass on the 215 is okay but I would love some better bass pressence.
I like the vocals on the sure SE215. But I use those mostly for sports. Now I'm looking to transition from headphones to IEM's on my desktop as well for movies and music and occasional gaming.
I do have Philips Fidelio X2R right now but I am looking for comfortable IEM's since most headphones (over ear) are not comfortable enough to me whilst the Shure SE215 are really comfy.
My genres: Rock, metal, gymcore, pop punk, modern rock, alternative metal, and various techno styles and occasional edm and music like taylor swift.
Super Review Man ♂️ what are your professional qualifications in audio,our you just giving us your opinion?
I would go somewhere else if you're looking for professional qualifications for reviews of chifi.
Thanks for the review and generally agree with your impressions of the ones I've owned. Strange how my impression of the Timelines is very different. Very textured yet full sounding bass. Liquid mid-range. Very detailed without being overly etched. Perfect highs. Moondrop S8 comes off as thin with poor timbre compared.
S8 poor timbre against the Timeless? Really? The S8 timbre is way more natural, almost scarily true to life to my ears. Given the shallower insertion depth of the Timeless, people will get a resonance peak lower at a lower frequency (around 7-8k for me), which makes things like cymbals sound too forward. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Timeless, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the S8, except perhaps in bass physicality, the bass in the S8 is very detailed but not impactful.
It so fanny how many controversial opinion about Timeless low end presentation? One reviwer mentioned that bass on 7hz Timeless is the strongest point of iem and he newer heard any better bass qualitty under 1k$, then the other thinks that the bass presentation is the weakest side. I guess i should get it on 11.11 to find out by myself.
Very interesting. I just got done reviewing a bunch of 1xDD IEMs with pretty good bass (Hana21, Falcon Pro, KATO) so they kinda set my expectations.
I think the presentation is full of bias . You right, you have to make up your own mind
Daniel Ginet, why so salty? This is just my opinion of an earphone.
@@SuperReview Salty? Absolutely not. You can accept criticism especially when it is constructive. My opinion is that you confuse the listeners when you compare a DD with a planar. We all know you love Moondrop but It's better to compare the Kato with a similar product like the FIIO FD3 PRO for exemple than with the T7 planar. In front of the FD3 PRO the Kato can go quietly to bed because from a "technical" point of view quality of the sound (B, M ,T, details of the scene, imaging and quality of the cable, etc.) additionally the price ! There is no doubt the FIIO FD3 PRO buries the Moondrop Kato in first class! That's factual no ?
@@PAQUIDAN comparing DD with a planar may be a crispy helpful to those unfamiliar with the characteristic qualities of a planar sound. I believe that there's no reason one could't and shouldn't compare different types of drivers.
It's got bass and mid-range warmth. You were never going to like it.
Tonally it's pretty similar to Hana21 and KATO, and I love those 🤷♀️
Personally I don’t care for the design but hopefully the hype behind this will inspire more innovation in planar IEMs down the road…I’m curious with the 4.4mm cable, do you have a favorite dac-amp for desktop use? I have an ifi zen dac but find the noise floor a little distracting.
I actually don't have any balanced desktop sources. My Hiby R5s and Cayin N3Pro have 4.4.mm, though.
Hey actually you can try to use the line out port with it placed to variable out . So the noise floor should be gone
@@zerotwo_.002 thanks, I’ve tried that as well. It does get rid of the noise floor but you loose some dynamic range
@@samyg123 well yeah the noise floor is the whole reason I made my headphone amplifier lmao
Finally someone that doesn’t automatically love them
Is that a good thing?
Depends on what you have and have tried.
Hi Mark I just received my Timeless...I just played The Cure as you referred for sibilance I heard no like no sibilance at all...and that was the best replay of this Album I ever heard...✌️ 😁 BTW loving Blessing2 ❤️
Iam using right now Tri tk2 Dac amp and it's wonderful...✌️ 🙋♂️
great review.. Disintegration is also one of my fav album..
Disintegration so good.
Great review as per usual ! You're detailed and honest. im looking for IEMs for Classical and Jazz music, what do u recommend? Would u recommend these 7hz Timeless ? thank u and keep up the great work!
Genre recommendations don't compute for me, sorry I can't help.
I just got them, and it really depends on what type of jazz/classical you like. These excel with music with alot of layers like concertos (rachmoninoff's 2nd concerto is a great example of this), but they lack the slam and prescense of dd iems. They are great at separating everything and providing great detail, but have a soft presentation. I don't listen to too much jazz, but they sound great from what i've listened so far (again, the seperation and detail is great). The only issue i have is that it can sound sibilant occasionally and the high's are somewhat fatuiging, but I think that's because the included tips are bad (I've heard that the timeless is very fit dependent, so I'll be buying spinfits to fix this)
Nice Review Sir 👍
What do you think about Timeless when compared to Tri I3 Pro, which is better?
I haven't heard T3 Plus.
@@SuperReview
Tri I3 Pro Sir, not T3 Plus
Sorry, but ditto.
Are you planning on reviewing the Timeless AE? They added 3 dB of bass, improved the cable, claim to have smoothed out the treble and increased soundstage. I wonder what you think...
Intrigued but apprehensive.
That's my standing with these as I ponder adding them to my collection. I'm suspect of overly hyped audio gear. I dived head first into the Tin P1 madness years ago and I could never bring myself to love them. They're not awful or anything, I even still have them. They're just not usually what I end up grabbing off my shelf when I head out for a walk. I generally run my IEM's off a BTR5, Q5S dac/amp.
I'll tell you what made me apprehensive...spending $2,000 on the 64 Audio u12t, $3,200 on the Empire Ears Odin, and another $1,700 on the Sony IER-Z1R. The risk is enormous when you're throwing a lot of money at an IEM where the expectations are an order of magnitude higher. And while I could have returned any of those, doing so would have cost me a penalty of two to three times the price of the 7Hz Timeless. I understand that mine is just the opinion of one person, but the 7Hz Timeless could very well be the best sounding IEM priced at $1,000 or less that I own, and it can hold its own against IEMs that cost even more. The 64 Audio u12t is still my favorite IEM, and the EE Odin is a very close second (so spending more money is no guarantee of audio supremacy). But I like the Timeless at least as much as the Empire Ears Valkyrie MKII (which cost $1,200 more), and it sounds considerably better than my Moondrop S8. I'm still putting my relatively new Sony IER-Z1R through its paces so it is too early to judge them.
Quite strange and UNNATURAL sound. Good bass excellent detail retrieval but the mix between mids and treble sounds so strange that becomes rather fatiguing when you switch to Sundara for relief purposes. But all changes when I connect it to Fiio UTSW5. Somehow Bluetooth losses together with akm chips help to “tame” this 7hz and the result is QUITE SATISFYING
I don’t really understand your criticisms, not only did the vast majority of reviewers rave about this. I bought it, and I agree with the others. I think this punches way above its weight. It is surprisingly resolving, and I feel the bass is tight, and itself resolving. I think I know why your review differs from my experience and that oftener reviews, you mentioned that even though there were lots of different sized tips, you admit you reviewed the IEM with the stock tip that does not really fit you, “a little bit small for me.” Well…a poor fitting tip will destroy the intended experience. I find these IEMs super sensitive to fit, and with a loose fit there will be a lot of loss of bass and treble. Why would anyone do that? Really shakes my impression of your review. I agree with Crinacle, this unit competes with IEM at $500 to $1,000 range. I bought it hoping for (and getting) and mild V shape resolving IEM that was also inexpensive. Fits the bill, and provides an alternative for my U12t and Dunu EST 112. The U12t is far superior, but sometimes you want a little more drama. And cheap enough to have great audio in higher risk environments. But I think for the VAST majority of people, this is all you need. The benefits of the high end IEM are real, but subtle.
One other issue, you probably should use a little more power to drive there. The difference between driving it balanced on the iFi Blu vs iPhone or Qudelix is dramatic. Your observations of the blunted attack may simply be lack of overhead. These are a little more demanding than most other traditional IEM.
> I think I know why your review differs from my experience and that oftener reviews, you mentioned that even though there were lots of different sized tips, you admit you reviewed the IEM with the stock tip that does not really fit you
No, I just don't love it. I don't prefer bassy sets to begin with, I think KATO and Hana21 do this signature better, Timeless is a bit sibilant for me, and I don't care for the form factor. It is just one opinion, it is normal that not everyone has the same opinion.
Just received my 7Hz Timeless a couple of days ago. The first thing that I'll say is that I don't think that I've ever disagreed with you more than I do on these.
Secondly, change the cable!!! Yes, it looks good & handles well but it was quickly evident to me that it is an underperformer that is choking the life out of the Timeless. I got my Timeless in the 4.4mm balanced version. I too wasn't suitably impressed but then switched the cable to a Tripowin Altea 4.4mm & it made a world of difference! Bass definition increased along with better treble extension & detail. It felt like I had spent 100 to 200 dollars more on the iem's. The Altea's are not an overly expensive cable either & are a worthy consideration. At this point the stock cable is back in the box to never ever be used again. It's an insult to the Timeless & I find it amazing all of the positive reviews when using it.
Thirdly, they perform best when suitably powered & used balanced. The same can be said for the PMV PP's (which also benefitted from the 4.4mm Altea) & most planar earphones I've encountered. Yes, they will perform well with your phone or dongle but not at their best.
Arthur, I appreciate the lengthy response, but to be honest I have dozens of cables, multiple amps, and balanced sources, and I've never heard a significant difference by swapping between them.
Just gonna quote crinacle on this: cables, amps yada yada don't make much difference
I hope they tame a little bit the harshness and they adjust the bass in the v 2 version.If they do it i think they will hit on the face iems that cost double-triple because they are very capable in the tremble extension
Those big round pucks are just asking to be coated with some sort of reflective metal or paint
Have you (or anyone in the comments) used foamies for tips on this? I use them on my Sony EX800STs and Emotion Etymotic ER4XR exclusively and pretty much can't listen to IEMs with silicone as everything just sounds too thin, except for maybe the Etymotic's deep insertion triple flanges. Mine don't get in until around the 20th, so I have some time to decide if I want to pick up some foam tips for this before it arrives.
No, I didn't use foams, I generally don't like them as much.
How is the soundstage, immagninarion, technicality, detail on this one, if compare to binary chopin, tanchjim orign, EA1000 fermat, kiwi orchestra? I'm looking for something that comes best with those traits within that price range. Please give some suggestion.
Hey man . Thanks for making vids. I’m a singer and I use the kz ZS10. They sound great tbh and I just always love to try out stuff and want better I guess lol . What do you recommend for me ?
Blessing 2
these sound fantastic im done searching
Good feeling.
Looking for the audience Q&A? It's here: ua-cam.com/video/53fZRDK48Qk/v-deo.html
For me, the major takeaway from your Timeless review is that Timeless doesn’t compare all all that well to similarly priced IEMs. Before that, I had mostly though of Timeless in relation to other planars which, in retrospect, was too narrow a way for me to think about it. Respecting your prediction that the Timeless driver will appear in other IEMs, do you think the sound might be improved that way?
The prediction is based on this: squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,7Hz_Timeless,Shuoer_Soloist_2
Two near earphones with 14.8mm planar drivers that graph almost the same -- I gotta guess it's the same driver, which suggests some new OEM available to anyone making IEMs. I don't know enough about tuning IEMs, but the same driver in different applications can absolutely sound different.
Reviewers like Crinacle compared Timeless with other planar iems because in his opinion this is the most well tuned planar iem to date that also does not sacrifice on technicalities. However, if you see his ranking list purely based on sound quality, you will realize that Timeless shares it 'A' grade with many higher priced iems of which some are single DD, and many are hybrids, BAs and few tribrids.
Yes, he likes it more than I do.
@@SuperReview Perhaps, the main purpose of a review is to help people who don’t have the item decide if it is worth their money. What a review shouldn’t be able to do is make something that sounded good before suddenly sound lousy. If that does happen, it probably isn’t the reviewers fault.
I already try Timeless and sell it immediately after a few days, it's not match my preference which is full-bodied vocal, extended but smooth treble, and punchy bass with slams, if you're preference just like me just don't buy Timeless, the vocal dry and laidback, the bass boom but not slams your eardrum, the treble is good extended but sometimes could be piercing
I have the timeless with the blue paper behind the nozzle and even though it is sub-bassy it is a nice alternative to my other IEMs. The bass is not textured or particularly fast but it is very engaging. The stand out features for me for the price are the detailed midrange and treble extension. The inclusion of the Acoustune tips and a super hard aluminum travel box is a nice bonus. This whole package makes it worthwhile not any one aspect. The only con that I have is , my set is hard to drive and does not sound good off the headphone jack on my phone and needs a decent travel dac/amp to keep the bass sounding anemic flabby and loose.
That sounds like the stereotypical headphone review that you would wirte if you would make an audiophile caricature.
Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you :-) Except with the statement that 15 ohms IEMs would be "hard to drive".
@@kwinzman Yea probably I have too many headphones so I'm starting to sound like a reviewer, not my intent, but the observation is fair. I just meant they are hard to drive on my phone which was why I got them :( . Hopefully the Mele will take to my phone better.
How's the soundstage with 7hz timeless? Some say that the soundstage is narrow while others say it's above average so now I'm very confused. I listen a lot to orchestral and videogame soundtracks so soundstage is quite a must for me to enjoy my tracks. TIA
@@Error-tr9ke Great Question . Had to break out the good DAC and the track Bubbles by Yosi Horikawa since I don't listen to soundstagie tracks on IEMs. Bass had poor soundstage on my upgraded THX789, It was much better on the Mjolnir2 but not great . Treble and mids were ok not amazing. On my other test track - She's Crafty by the Beastie Boys , the soundstage was better due to the excellent treble extension. It's an IEM so soundstage is never great IMO. If you ever hear a great soundstage on a decent IEM plz let me know. I use open back headphones or STAX to enjoy soundstage.
First of all, really appreciate your reply. I've really been going back and forth with 7hz timeless and Moondrop Kato since I can get either till end of the holiday season at about $150 or $100, respectively. My current set are about
Is the Cable on the KATO the stock one???
That white finish looks gorgeous and I'll be glad to see if they are for sale alone.
Yeah, stock cable.
With all the spec talk, it comes down to whether or not you LOVE TO LISTEN to them. Clearly you don't. What do you LOVE to listen with? What makes you want to reach for them because the experience is so what you're looking for?
Second, I don't listen to the Cure "Disintegration" or any other Cure. In fact, I don't usually listen to Rock n Roll. I listen to 99% acoustic, analog-Classical orchestral music. Classic Jazz-Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Mingus, Eric Dolphy, Miles, Ornette Coleman. I listen to singer-songwriter folkies. I listen to Blues. How does your review relate to me? My first test is whether a solo Steinway piano sounds like a piano.
These are some I love: ua-cam.com/video/0_MLClhEdKg/v-deo.html
RE: Your second question, I don't really find genre-based generalizations very useful. I listen to a fairly wide range of music, and if I like a set I typically like it for everything.
Barely making on the BTR5, this iem definitely needs an amp with more headroom.
BTR5 has enough power to blow your ears off with the Timeless, I don't get it.
@@SuperReview Any higher than 45 and artifacts lowly creeps in....prefer something with a wee bit 'headroom'
@@lancewood1410 switch to balanced cable should give u more headroom
@@Zany34 They are already on 4.4 pentaconns
Don't understand if you're talking balanced,my BTR3K balanced is super nice...going out👍❗️
As a source i have the ibasso dx312EXN paired with ibasso IT07 and Beyers Xelento. Im never fully happy with the sound. Ive tried Mest II, Kinera Nanna Imperial 2.0, Nanna I, Fiio Fa7, CA Solrais X and some other 1000+ and - dol iems and im still not happy with the sound. The closest is IT07 and was Kinera Nanna I/II but still not there. Kineras were great in mids but lacked bass extention. It07 has almost everything great but this balanced armature timbre is not natural for me. All others hybrids/tribrids had the same issue. Xelentos have great bass and bit more natural timbre but they sound thin and plastic in vocals. Having and loving the natural sound of the Hifiman Sundara ive decided to go with the Timeless. I think for some, like me, who pay a great attention to the timbre, there is no other way than the planars anymore. Lets see how they perform.
I waited to watch this until I had the 7Hz Timeless, because I ordered it a few days before your review. I got mine with a 2.5mm connector, and have listening on the BTR5 ( because that is my familiar setup ). I wasn't surprised that you weren't nuts about it, but it was a bit too much bass for your tastes. The detail and speed of response on the planar sets are hard to top for the money. The P1 has no bass, so it tracks that you like the sound on it. I do agree that new Hana is interesting, and I can't put my finger on what it is, but they are magic. -- I have a hard time taking your claims on the build quality of the Kato seriously. My two most recent sets from Moondrop are poorly built, and note that neither have left my desk. My Starfield which is missing about a quarter of its paint, and the Aria's loose cable connectors make me wonder when it is going to fail completely. At this point Moondrop have 6 months on a new IEM without major complaints, before I believe they can make something worth buying again.
That's not a great record with the Moondrops. FWIW, I have like 10x Moondrop IEMs, no issues except the stock cable with my Blessing 2 had reverse polarity on one side.
@@SuperReview the sad part is the SSP is my travel set, and one of the best made on the market.
@@SuperReview worth noting that the tips are a bit different on the newer ones, they put them in plastic cases and didn't have that one grippy tip, and those black straight sides were white, but look the same. The basic ones were 5 sizes of typical silicone. Also thank you for knowing that those blue ones were Acoustune tips. I was curious, and wanted to find them, so I re-watched this, because I remembered you named one them.
Could you, by any chance, give your impressions on the Timeless & BTR5 combo? Would have been of much help to me as the BTR5 is the only source I have at the moment and am very interested in Timeless. I'm getting an impression that it's not exactly my kind of sound, but I just can't help it still. Always wanted to try a planar and all this unprecedented hype is not helping at all. What other IEMs do you have apart from the Moondrops?
@@juanblanco7898 I really like the Timeless BTR5 combo and think they go well together, but Timeless doesn't really need power, and can run fine straight off a $10 dongle too. I own a bunch of IEMs, my current rotation are Mele, Aria, and KZ ZEX. I already owned a planar and knew I loved the sound.
This is why I never listen to people who review product on this platform as it’s only one person opinion! Now I’ve had the p1 and I hated them and now I’ve got the timeless and I rate the over the p1. As a person who reviews iem a lot why would not replace the cable? I’ve always tired the cable but most times I use my own cables.
For most of my time spent with Timeless, I did use a different cable to make it feel nicer. I am quite influenced by aesthetics and feel, so I wanted to feel as good about the Timeless while listening.
I'm surprised you didn't love the Timeless, most people in the community swear by these.
It's not a bad set, I see why people like it.
I so completely love the Timeless with the Schiit Asgard 3 with multibit DAC. That's a complex-warm DAC with a high power class A amp. It's not as inspiring with lesser or more sterile DAC-amps, including even the Schiit Modi 3+/IEMagni combo.
I now use Timeless with the Cayin RU6 which is a discreet R-2R dongle Dac. RU6 with the Timeless makes a great combo.
I’m not sure if you would see this comment, but how do these compare to the IKKO OH10? Would the 7Hz timeless be a good upgrade? Or would it be smarter to go for the moondrop dusk?
I think OH10 is more V-shaped than Timeless, with more dominant bass. So Timeless is a bit better balanced in comparison. I think Timeless handles detail a bit better too. Dusk is, IMO, a big step up from both, but also pretty different, more midrange focused.
I should have trusted your review and not the other ones hyping that iem like a god tier. I am in the process of returning it because the sibilance and the timbre it's unbearable to my taste. All the other stuff as you said was very good, coming from a fiio fh3 the details and micro sounds were way better. Is there anything around that price point or just a bit higher that shares the details, bass and etc but has more pleasing vocals? I find my fh3 has pretty decent vocals but is back in the detail department and also not the thickest sound for heavy metal and rock. Maybe hanna 2021? I would appreciate if you could answer. Basically a mix of fh3 and timeless would be a good one for me. I was considering hanna for the 3d effect that you mentioned.
Hi Mark! Thanks for the review.
Can you suggest me IEM under 200?
I'm very sensitive to sibilance, my current IEMs have all problem with treble (cymbals makes me mads!) : Kz ZS10 pro, KZ ZAX, PR1 HI-FI.
Thanks!
cant think of any except prob shure
would you prefer the Kato over these?
Edit: I should have watched the full video first lol
Creo que voy por el Kato o Hana, por el sonido más natural y más cercano, los dos espero que superarán mis Audiosense AQ 0 en realidad de sonido, dinámica de bajas frequencias y sonido más real en resto, sobre todo más agudas...
I haven't heard AQ0 asi no estoy seguro, pero los does (KATO y Hana) son fantasticos.
Surprising that you endorse the original P1. Other reviewers did not. I have the P1 and Kato and prefer Kato. Otherwise I like the openness of P1 but it is so difficult to drive specially when I am in the street. Having P1 (original) and Kato, does it make any sense to get timeless?
I quite like the P1, yeah. If you already have KATO, IMO don't need Timeless. They're similar tunings.
Based on the wide ranging reviews and comments from people who own the Timeless, it makes me wonder if there's some significant unit variation... Maybe those who received a good unit (like Crin) think it shoots way above it's price point, while others have received faulty units, or just not as well tuned. Maybe this all comes to QC issues. It would be interesting to see reviewers swap units and see if their opinion changes.
Just seeing a lot of hd660s reviews, i got that it's just opinions. And it's a great thing! if you have an idea about their tastes and how yourself evaluate the sound quality. Some say it's even clearer in detail than hd600, but darker. Others says i'ts just a dark mess. I do even heard people saying it's the brighter (
(and how a person percieve bright, it's from upper mids or highs? that's the point) with best technicalities (another partial subjective topic). And i know some reviwers that i like says the 660s i'ts their favorite headphone, the most natural ones (over focals, anandas), and others just saying it's overpriced bullshit. We need to get used to a wide range of opinions...
I dunno, I watched Crin's review after doing mine, and TBH what he describes sounds in line with what I'm hearing. Just different preferences.
I've been doing some EQ with the timeless. An interesting found is that the sibilance of timeless I heard actually come from the slight drop starting from 4khz if you compared the fr to IEF target. I boost the treble from 4k to 10k and it basically removes the sibilance and reduce that somewhat dark tone.
I would personally give it a 4 star. Wished it was a little less bass oriented.
What do you use for EQ?
@@SuperReview I use AutoEQ to generate graphicEQ settings to use with euqalizer APO on windows and wavelet on android.
I have it compensated to both IEF target and harmanIE2019v2 (both with customized bass shell).
Hey Mark, are you reviewing the Ikko OH2 since you reviewed all the other Ikko IEM?
Not sure, I imagine they will want to send it to me but I'll be doing fewer reviews for the rest of the year I think.
How do these isolate compared to something like the DT770/DT1770?
Please do review TRI I3 Pro. Thank you
Sorry, no plans.
Sorry to hear that you don't love them. I absolutely do love them and I own some pretty damned expensive IEMs costing thousands of dollars. Glad I just pushed your reservations aside and bought them anyway. The price of admission is absurdly low and the rewards were potentially too great to be dissuaded by a naysayer or two (or a nit picker or two). This was easily the best $220 I spent on anything audio related in the last 30 years.
I'm in the same place with IEM's and I think it's the best purchase I've ever made in the world of audio.
this is the first time i come to your channel, and i already love it. I have a question, if you can only choose one, will you take 7hz Timeless or Kato? thank you before. Subbed !
KATO for me 👍
Hey, which IEM is a good upgrade from timeless under $600 for laid back relaxed sound?
EJ07M / Kinda Lava, Symphonium Meteor
Many reviewers are reporting that these scale with power and throw 1 watts at them. Did you happen to notice something similar when you threw more power at it?
I don't know what people mean when they say things like that. If you put 1 watt of power into these, they would destroy my ear drums.
That's.. not how headphones work at all, lol. Nothing "scales with power," that's not a thing.
It's not impossible unit variation accounts for difference, but I think more likely is just different personal preferences.
@@KaneAmaroq Not true, DAC or amps with more power do bring out more dynamics and body to sound. I have an S9 Pro and a HIP Dac V2, and while I can achieve the same volume from both, the HIP DAC V2 delivers a fuller sound on my Oppo PM3. They aren't the be all end all headphone, but certainly sound better with more power.
@@KaneAmaroq you obviously don’t have much experience with planar magnetic drivers. Power matters! If you have ever tried the Hifiman he-6 you would know they don’t perform worth a damn on lower power amps. Some people hook them directly to a full-size speaker amp in order to get them to perform properly. The hifiman susvara is the same way.
My personal take running this 2.5mm
- Soundstage is 3D but extremely narrow for an iem that doesn't do deep fit
- Vocals don't exactly sound amazing either, it comes across overly analytical
- Bass region does overpower the lower mids, extremely prominent in rock genres
- Tuning is excellent, nothing much to fault there
- Note weights are somewhat blunted, and bass slam also suffers from this
- Cable is bad, the stock one has such a recessed treble presentation
Overall it's alright because of the tuning but it's not as amazing as all the other reviews hype it to be. The sound is pseudo planar/dynamic more so than an actual planar - I'm sure hifiman and audeze owners can relate since the speed and detail just isn't up to par (but fine for the price I guess). Selling mine away but an additional tip would be to use wide bore eartips to mitigate the narrow soundstage and reduce the awkward bass slam.
It think I am gonna get the Timeless Mark😄😉...also I didn't get og Hana yet...but tomorrow I am gonna get them...I have the O2, but still want to here the second tuning to Oxygen...unless you would have some other advice for 11.11🙋♂️❗️
Best 11/11 deal I've seen so far is Dunu EST 112 for $350.
Thanks Mark...I can shop now ony on Ali because of the tax situation in my country...but I want to get Blessing2 for $250...Hana will have to probably wait again ✌️😁
Thin sounding, bass lacking, no punch or wow factor / differences vs BAs and dynamic drivers. Sold it after a week of test.
What would you recommend to someone looking for a more analytical and lean sounding IEM at this price point? I value the speed, sounstage size, instrument separation (a sense of space between them rather then pure definition/resolution) and a balance between microdynamics and macro dynamics. I have an Ikko OH10 and want something a bit more tonally balanced/neutral without sacrificing perceived techical abilities. Timbre is not a top priority to me. I'm prepared to loose in soundstage size and the "bite"/sharp leading edge to the notes (significant upper mid accent) due to a different tuning, but I certainly don't want anything that sounds a lot softer, darker, warmer and slower. I don't feel like I have any decent options except the Kato, but I'm worried about it's single DD technical capabilities. Also I'm still not sure if those are a "warmish" sounding set or rather cold and somewhat thin. I'd go for the FDX1 if it wasn't so hard to get here where I live and the accounts on it's somewhat compressed dynamics. Slightly metallic timbre? I think I can live with that.
God, I feel like it's a tough post to read through, sorry.
Have you heard the Blessing 2? They have lots of bite and separation, and certainly aren't warm or congested. Just be aware that they won't be a big step up from what you have. What they do is excellent, though
I was going to recommend FDX1. Otherwise, go up to Blessing 2.
@@kylerclarke2689 haven't heard them, sadly. I'd like too that's for sure. I've read a lot about their shortcomings, though, so I have some doubts. It's all likely in relation to more expensive sets, but it implants itself deeply in mind and forms a bias nevertheless. I think I would be OK with their purportedly unengaging character. Things like treble extesion which is, again purportedly, not that great are another story, though. Them being not a big step ahead from what I've got sounds discouraging to me for sure (since it's a pretty big step ahead in terms of price for me), but this might be subjective, so...
@@juanblanco7898 idfk what treble extension is but I own the S8 as well partly because of claims of this "extension" and prefer the B2's treble. And they're definitely engaging. I know it's not advisable to go in blind but honestly, too many reviews just lead to reading 100 contradictory opinions. I hope you find something that works for you, anyway!
@@SuperReview Thanks! I have my doubts about them, but it looks like I've just got to listen to them somehow. I may be content with a sidegrade, but not a downgrade in terms of technical performance which I suspect may be the case with the New Hana and KATO. So that pretty much leaves me with Blessing 2 Indeed, I guess. They aren't HD600 kind of dull neutral, are they? To hell with bass, but I like my mid and highs transparent and slighly bright
Are these worth upgrading over my etymotic er2 xr?
Hey man long time no see
Sup Ishaan 🤙 How are things?
bit wordy, but great visuals !
Which one is better fh5 Or this one?
I wonder if Timeless is a hit and miss on channel balance and if there is 8 kHz peak.
Channel imbalance is not audible to me.
Hi Mark, would you compare timeless with PMV PP?
I haven't heard the PMV, sorry.
Haha inevitable review, surprised its negativo nice review m8
🤙
My place have some user sell used timeless.i never tried maybe which is not suitable for everyone
Would getting the SE version over the 4.4 one make any difference in sound quality? I'd prefer the 3.5 for its versatility, but only if I am getting basically the same SQ.
It does not affect sound quality, no.
Balanced results in higher output power versus SE on amps/dacs that have both. Balanced does have a bit better sound in my experience, but if you have ample power with SE, I wouldn't immediately go to Balanced. If you have an amp with both, and only use an amp, you might as well go for balanced
@@Vaterraman The only time there'd be any sonic difference is if you either A, did not initially have enough power for the device on SE (Some headphones are very insensitive, Arya/Susvara come to mind), or B, the manufacturer did not design the SE out as well as the balanced out on their specific device, such as the Schiit Magnius.
Otherwise, in terms of how they function, there is no difference in quality between the two. Just more power.
This is of course speaking about a balanced output. From DAC to Amp, there are benefits of balanced audio related to interference and ground loops, but once it's reached the amp, it's all up to the design of the amp itself.
Just question of power...planar loves power..✌️
@@jaroslavfricek7772 Not really, only if they are insensitive. Extra power only results in more volume, and amp's ability to drive a load correctly is not a power issue.
BQ needs upgrade. someone just posted on FB that the cover just come loose like a humpty dumpty doo.
Would this be a sensible upgrade if I already own the Fiio FH3s?
Depends on what you want. Personally, I'd take the stronger midrange focus of FH3.
I own the FH5 which (if I understand correctly) is similar. Imho it isn't an upgrade, but I prefer what the 7hz is doing. The vocals aren't as in my head, and the tuning isn't as intense, while still being plenty fun. Bass level seems comparable. I wouldn't get the 7HZ as an upgrade, just a different flavor!
@@kylerclarke2689 What would you suggest to choose between these two?
what dac/amp did you used to graph this planar iem ? what would have happened if
you graphed a planar iem from a low power source such as apple $10 dongle
dac ?
I primarily listen via Sony A105 and Hiby R5s. Graphs are made on an Apple dongle: squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,7Hz_Timeless
They all sound the same.
@@SuperReview in a week i will receive and test my shuoer s12 (very close to 7hz) with my apple dongle dac (that many say it won't have enough power) and compare it with btr5 that is about 10x more powerfull and i believe i will come to the same conclusion that all dacs sounds almost the same and that audiophilia is a mental distortion that bends reality through our subjective impressions.
Always best if you can test for yourself. If you think you hear a difference, try to get someone to help do a blind test, even a short one is enough -- watch confidence evaporate.
@@SuperReview agree, in a blind test i cannot even differentiate uncompressed vs 128k mp3, this is why i only listen to mp3 :)
hi, how do you find 7hz stands against something like B2 or B2Dusk??
Personally I don't think it's very close, Blessing 2/Dusk are much stronger for my tastes.
Mark sorry...but you missed this review...love you anyway...✌️😁
Hola, no entiendo todo muy bien en inglés, pero entendí de que no te convencen de todo. Ayer visto en you tube una comparativa de sonido de varios modelos y distintos precios y la verdad que no suena como yo esperaba después de tantas buenas críticas. A mi me parecía un sonido algo alejado y muy detallado - como AKG - como ver un concierto en ua sala grande deportiva. Algo frío.... Espero que comparando con Kato, Kato quedaría con el sonido más cercano y más humano....?
Creo que UA-cam demos de sonida no son muy precisas.
@@SuperReview por eso tengo ahora dudas sobre 7hz, porque parece que son algo poco realistas, y el Kato con falta de cuerpo en mitad de frequencias - desde sub bajos hasta mitad de medios.... Ya no se pensar.... Y no se como quedaría Ikko 10 en estas comparativas.... Por lo visto Tri 3 están bien..... Pero no se a final cual de ellos podría mejorar mis Audiosense AQ 0 en Algo más de realidad y un poquito más dinámica en sub y bajos
It just seems like you can't pick up or discern the detail, which kind of discredits all your other reviews of higher end monitors. the fact that you rated the Kato higher or prefer it is insane to me, truly.
OK
people steering away from oh10 after crinacle's rating. i still like it
My biggest problem for OH10 is the same as Timeless -- Hana21 exists.
@@SuperReviewcool. if only i knew about it before. never the less blessing 2 is the only viable upgrade for most people
You either got a bad set or you didn’t use a powerful enough amp. Planar magnetic drivers require quite a bit of power to properly perform. I’m not talking about volume levels, I’m talking about brute power at lower volumes. All planar magnetic drivers perform better with proper power. The 7hz punches way above its weight class, it’s one hell of a bargain and a great earphone for its price. Plugging it directly into a phone isn’t going to cut it, I wouldn’t recommend it if that’s what you are looking for. Plug it into a good amp and you will be rewarded with one of the best earphones I have ever heard.
MEMES
@@SuperReview MEMES???????
Straight memes on memes.
@@SuperReview I see that you're dismissing power and amping as possible improvement. Even from objectivist camp, any amp distorts, and distorts more when closer to its max power output. So it'd be better to listen to more powerful source / amp but with lower gain due to less distortion.
hi sir, what do you think about KZ ZEX?
Not sure, but I think one is on the way.
What iem would you recommend for under $200?
A lot. squig.link/list/?price-zone=5&score=5,4
So, as a first true and good IEM which one - Kato or 7Hz Timeless? Basically ~200 USD, music primarily R&B, Jazz and lots of Currently mainly use HD600/HD58x open back headphones from Sennheiser, along with bluetooth PXC 550-II. Thanks.
I prefer KATO.
@@SuperReview Thanks, will get the Kato then. 👍🏼
Shanling UA1 would be sufficient to drive these??
I don't have a UA1 but I would be surprised if there's an issue, Timeless has no unique power requirements.
@@SuperReview Great!! Good to know..Awesome review btw!!
🤙
Please review the kz zex electrostatic
Is it cause some fatigue in hours session of listening?
It's not really fatiguing, no.
Can you do a review on the Corsair Virtuoso XT Wireless Gaming Headset I would love to hear your opinion and your professional perspective?
Sorry, but very unlikely.