Not only is this the most interesting subject matter ever, it's heartwarming to see four experts being so friendly, respectful and kind to each other without egos getting in the way. Thank you for being such great role models gentlemen.
I agree. They are each comfortable and confident in their own knowledge and skills that they don't feel like they have to compete. They just get to the heart of the issue.
These boys have been treated like they're lesser humans their whole lives. Society told them it didn't care what they suffered as children. That's messed up.
I was a kid when this happened and my perspective of this case was extremely skewed to the negative against them. Why did people think it was okay to make fun of these two? Their childhoods were HORRIFIC.
I feel bad bc I misjudged these guys back in the day. Now that I am a mental health counselor and I see so much trauma, I'm so ashamed of myself for drinking the Kool aid
@@cynthiakluck-johnson5895 as a mental health worker???? I'm very disappointed at your tunnel vision. Don't use victims you have assessed and referred to the correct services to annalise these 2, on tv no less! That is disrespectful. These 2 are on tv for gods sake! They have not recieved a diagnosis that would be a pathway to your 'counciling'. And you have not even considered neuro divergence. ODD for example. Left untreated is the pre cursor to the worst anti-social personality disorders - psychopathy, sociopathy etc. Untreated leads to the worst entitlement and defiance. Not the person's fault if the experts overlook it in the vital early/formative years. It is genetic as you would be aware. Many of my colleges agree they would most definitely recommend neuro assessments with these 2 problematic, immature young adults. Obviously, some of the behavioural issues could very well be trauma, however we dont know, as they have refused all assessments. And as a MH expert, you would agree that many many people have had the most horrific lies, life destroying false accusations told about them, all due to the ODD RETRIBUTION. As you are aware, they live for it, retribution is their fuel. It is very often the answer to that old question, "what makes someone a mass murderer?" or, "how could someone kill thier parents?".
I worked under Mendez for 1 year. In a meeting, he told us, we were family. I told myself, 1st were not family and secondly, if this is how you treat family, I’m out of here. I quit shortly after that meeting. About 6 months later, he was murdered by his sons. I had no idea how bad he was at home but he was an angry man with underlying issues.
@CherylAnnRose an unfortunate and cruel typical life scenario: unhealthy and unwell parents raising unhealthy and unwell children. Who do we blame? M/ seniors father? His grandfather or great-grandfather? At some point, the cycle of systematic abuse needs to be broken, not elevated to homicide. All players in this scenario are on the same MH and behavioural spec. All 3 are unstable evil abusers. Ppl who are idolising the M/ bros are forgetting that the youngest M/ was SA'd by his BROTHER. yet they want a p*do out on the streets? This screams of unbalanced 🤔 thinking.
@jennibarnes140 Lyle was a kid when he did that to Erik. That doesn't make him a pedophile. Stop it. They're both victims. And they killed their parents probably partly in revenge. But they have served their time for that. I bet anything neither of these boys hurts another person. Ever. And they will be released. Mark my words.
@Mamma20111987 he was 12, and yes, kids at that age are removed from other kids and have de programing due to the exceptionally high risk. Pedos almost always did it to coudins, siblings, and schoolmates in thier pre teen or teen yrs. Read some actual evidence based facts!
These boys were abused and obviously couldn’t find another way to end this abuse. And yes a normal human would find other ways, but they couldn’t develop normal behaviour due to the abuse. It’s right they were sent to prison but it’s about time to set them free.
Or any other UA-cam body language analyzers.... I sampled a few and they have much to be desired.... i am spoiled by The Behavior Panel !!!! 🌟 🌟 🔎 🔬 🔍 🌟 🌟
15 mins in and Scott has said something very profound (to me) about how children who are abused become incredible observers, this I know to be true as I am always observing other people and watching to see how “the land lies” before saying or doing anything.
I think it's true, speaking personally, but after something happened to me, I was able to work out who was good or bad for my family and friends but never had the ability for myself unless it was really obvious. Nowadays if someone in my house is acting slightly different, like a pin dial different from normal I'm asking them what's up, which can get really annoying for them lol!
I'm the same way. When I was younger and around others I would be very quiet watch everything and everyone before I interact. I never knew that was why. Amazing always learning something new.
This absolutely true. In my experience and the way I've explained it before is you're constantly on guard waiting for others to turn on you. You're super alert and begin to decode their behaviours and moods. Everything I'm learning from the guys are things I've picked up from being super observant. Just that now, I have proper terminology and definitions. Really a mind blowing realization as an adult!
Greg, I am sure many of your viewers have said this, but I am deeply sorry for your loss and for that of your wife. I have one child, a son who is an adult. I can only imagine the nightmarish and never ending heartbreak this has caused you both. There can be no greater loss. 💔
I was also going to offer my condolences. I always say there is no greater loss than to lose a child. Our son was recently in a horrible car accident and has severe brain damage. We can barely function. I can only imagine what devastation the finality of losing a child would be like. 💔
@@VioletJoy I'm sorry to hear that. I had a serious pedestrian accident when I was 21 and got hit in a crosswalk by a car going 40mph. Recovering mentally and emotionally was a million times more difficult than recovering physically, which wasn't easy either. Hopefully you can all get professional support.
If you have never been abused sexually, physically and or emotionally/mentally you have ABSOLUTELY no clue how well you can hide it especially when you need to. They deserve to be free now.
i got out of an abusive (verbal /emotional/physical) long term situation with my mother at 19 (after being abused since I was 5 or 6) by literally just running away and now I am 30 . The police actually asked me if I wanted to put her in jail and in the end I just told them I want an ongoing permanent restraining order. Honestly, I think society imagines family, especially mothers as people that can "do no wrong" and that by doing this (restraining order) I am being cruel to my parents, but they dont really understand the longterm scars that abuse can lead that is almost like killing a child.
@@Adara007 Hi there. Yes it's getting better. I have been trying to get back in relationship with my cousins now. I tried to get back to see if I could do a relationship with my mom, but that is not the case. I also have been working a lot on myself, a lot of therapy, and I eventually want to go back to school for a master's in psychology as well because I feel that I could be helpful for others in that way. I am encouraged by your words and I'm glad you were able to make a negative to a positive. The biggest thing I am dealing with right now is the aftereffects it gives you. Sometimes I just randomnly blank on things. Sometimes someone may say something to me but I dont hear them. A lot of self judgement in my head.
As a survivor of childhood abuse by my parents, I can totally confirm that being in the moment of a memory can cause a survivor to revert back to a child. I will disassociate or go into child mode whenever there is confrontation or I'm worried that I've upset someone or if I've done something wrong... even just spilling a drink... I apologise all the time to the point where my husband has told me countless times that I say sorry too much but the residual guilt makes me feel like I've still not said sorry enough. I constantly feel like I'm not good enough. I cannot imagine how traumatic it must be to have experienced such horrific abuse only to end up in jail without any chance for freedom. Trauma upon trauma upon trauma.
@America's Rabbit Hole Thank you for sharing too. I totally relate to fearing that your partner will leave. I still don't understand why my husband stays with me. I have so many issues but I've spent years in and out of therapy but I still have a poor view of myself. It's a comfort to know we're not alone. BIG HUGS xx
Funny, my reaction was to harden. Apologies were never said cause they were never accepted. The abuse only stopped when the anger was spent. It has been difficult, but life goes on. We are damaged for life. I had to break the cycle so I didn't hurt my own children, though I wanted to. When that is all you learned, it is difficult to learn another way. I am 61 now and a great grandma. Hugs to you both.
All of what you said, true, and so familiar to me. I have CPTSD and become dysregulated in the face of loud noises or shouting (prelude to beatings), sudden events like collisions, loss of balance, sudden vulnerability. I revert instantly and become very rattled and scared. It's almost impossible to stop the reaction, even though I'm an adult and might know rationally what happened. There is no greater plague in our society than the general prevalence of child abuse.
@@jeanettecook1088 me too - about the loud noises . It causes a confusion that almost paralyses me and I’m nearly 70! I then behave like a frightened kid who has done something wrong. It’s so damaging but I managed to bring up my kids to be super kind and they are saved from the cycle that so often goes on. I think kids in school should be taught how to be a good parent! They would then recognise if their own parents are abusive, plus be better prepared to be a parent themself. I found that counselling still helps every now and then, plus a 10 minute mediation for the anxiety. X
As a survivor myself of child abuse, torture by the very persons who were supposed to care for me (in my case a mentally ill adoptive mother), I can tell you that the rage and shame and fear are very intense for a little child. Many many children who are severely abused fantasize about killing their abusers. Most of us, I guess, just don’t have the nerve. Also yes you don’t show emotion. You learn that abusers get off on that; they love the screaming and crying and begging. So you learn to be stoic.
I hope you find peace - I’m sorry you had to endure that. Keep going and say kind things to yourself every single day. I’ve found that hugging myself deliberately as a soother, works well. It tells my body that it’s cared for as an adult even if it missed that part as a child. Bless you x
agree.. when i was 12 ,i almost go through with it, i was holding a knife on her forehead while she was asleep ,the second time i was going to bash his head but I can't possibly be strong enough to actually kill them because i was obviously smaller than them ... That realization made me dropped the plan altogether.. i was also afraid that people might paint me as monster if my abusers die ,i mean i have no evidence so I'll be the evil one.. It's true i fantasize killing em almost everyday, even now in adulthood,i still wish i could harm them the same way they did me.. but some of em are already dead and the others have their own family, i couldn't bring myself to take that away .. it's so frustrating.. it's like the world moves on but you're still stuck in a loop..
I’m glad my comment enabled some great conversation about it. To those who are younger than me (I will be 60 next year) please know that the road to recovery is long and painful but worth it. It is a lifelong journey. It is totally NORMAL to feel intense anger and confusion and probably around age 35+ is when you can even approach being ready to move past that phase. What really helps is stuff like yoga, movement, exercise, animals, finding the beauty in the world in tiny places. Build a safe place for yourself mentally.
My heart broke for these two brothers. I really liked how the panel pointed out common traits and adapters that abused kids develop. I could just imagine the two of them being broken as young boys and it just made me sick! I have a young boy of my own and it makes my stomach hurt to think of how these two suffered! I'm sorry, but not sorry, I can't muster much sympathy for the parents. The mother and father sentenced both of thier sons to a life sentence long before the murders.
Chase is talking about a triggered trauma response. Because the nervous system doesn’t tell time, when we recall something traumatizing, the entire body and brain are engaged as if we are surviving that trauma again.
In the simplistic form; As a mature adult, when a parent demeans you in that familiar, condescending tone; “Oh, Kathy...”- You spring right back into the emotional mind of your “10-year-old self”, even though you’re 60! I’m sure we’ve all experienced it. These scars run deep. Suddenly, you’re that kid who disappointed or fell short...again.
Anyone wondering why they didn’t leave needs to consider that the younger one was still being raped by his father at age 18. Th is illustrates how arrested he was in his development and just how tyrannised he was by his father. Most boys abused physically or sexually by a male family member end the abuse once they mature to the level of strength that they can protect themselves around age 15. But he didn’t because he was abused into a state of total helplessness. That’s why he asked his older brother for help to make it stop.
@@freudulant they couldn't think about running away because their development was limited yet they could devise the murder plans, lie to the police, buy restaurants and private coaches, throw parties and what not ? That's what I don't get it. Is not like they just snapped and then panicked and called police and confess about the situation! That was not the case. So they DID had some presence of mind didn't they ?!
@@hnr4994 yes these are childish solutions and childish plans with no foresight into the future consequences. Very common with cases of childhood trauma. You don’t understand abuse dynamics and it shows. I’m not blaming you, the questions contrasting what they could versus couldn’t do is a logical questioning thought process. But normal presumptions based on well functioning brains just don’t apply here. Their brains do not function in the same way as someone else who has healthy attachment with their primary caregivers.
Forgot all about these guys! Great video, as always. So.... I'm a flight medic. We work 24 hour shifts. As soon as admin is gone for the day (they're a bunch of buzzkills), our tones are replaced with Mark saying "HELP, HELP" when we get a call out 😏 Unless I cant use his voice without permission. If that's the case, this is strictly a hypothetical scenario.
It's not an excuse for cold-blooded, calculated m*u*r*d*e*r. They were young adults who could have ask a counselor for help, reported their parents to the authorities, or left home and started their new lives. They made this decision. They are psychos who should never be released from custody.
@@tengallonhat2741 So by your logic someone who was brutally abused their entire life and felt they had no other choice but to kill the person who abused them means that person is a psycho? Like the panel mentioned in the video, abuse stunts a person immensely. Experts evaluated the Menendez brothers to be at a mental age of 8-10, and they didn't see the options that you've laid out as viable options because of that. Also I think one look at the crime scene will tell you this was not cold-blooded but in fact there was a high degree of emotion and overkill based on the randomness and number of shots.
@@mayakrause9384 Even when you are 8 or 10 you know you can't kill people. It was not self defense. Were they afraid for their lives? They could leave their house. No away.
@@tengallonhat2741It’s not an excuse but an explanation. I don’t think life without parole is appropriate for two people who were terrorised their entire life and finally snapped. Abuse from such a young age changes the way your brain develops. They clearly made decisions that weren’t rational and saw no other way out. Also I don’t think they’re “psychos”. All of the experts who evaluated them said they didn’t have enough of the traits to be diagnosed with anti social personality disorder. One of these people was Park Dietz who evaluated people like Jeffery Dahmer.
@@mayakrause9384 "...and felt they had no other choice but to kill the person who abused them." ----- These were intelligent, adult young men and this heinous, cold-blooded act was un-necessary and pre-meditated. I believe the jury made the right decision.
Greg seems like the sweetest, kindest and gentlest man in the world. At the same time one you would never mess with. I think most true alphas are like that. A teddy bear, but a grizzly bear at the same time.
Can you imagine if he had a daughter, and when she got old enough to date? Wouldn't want to be a guy in that scenario! Or maybe the daughter either. Ha!
Those boys absolutely should have not got life sentences .I know what it's like to have a father who was extremely abusive ,both emotionally and violently. And I tell you now .if I hadn't been so young and scared of him and a female ,I'm not sure what I would have been cable of because the one thing I do remember is wishing him dead every day from my earliest awareness of how much I hated him,that's what abuse can do over many years .
yes, I also hated my stepfather so intense that he fell from the potty dead with his naked butt in the air at 54 years. Nobody grieved, not even his own young son. What had made my hate even more severe was that my mom told me nor to take myself so seriously. What she meant was that it didn't matter what he was doing to me because I was not important
I understand and I can tell you now ,that you mum obviously didn't know any better unfortunately and that you are and always where important and whatever happened was not your doing or fault.Treat the little child that u where once back then,we all the love and care ,that you always deserved ❤️
IM BLOWN AWAY THAT THESE TWO BROTHERS KILLED THERE PARENTS WITH A SHOT GUN..AND KNOWING THERE GUNNA GET CAUGHT AND SPEND THE REST OF THERE LIVES IN JAIL....THE PREMEDATATION KNOWING THE END RESULTS AND THIS NEVER MADE THEM CHANGE THERE MINDS..ITS A UN ANSWERED QUESTION THAT IF I RECALL WAS NEVER BROUGHT OUT OR ASKED THE BROTHERS.
The fact that the abuse was not allowed in the second trial is a miscarriage of justice imo. If this trail happened today, the end result would be much different!
Greg, the conflict Lyle had with his brother before calling 911 was that Erik was in so much distress that Lyle had to drag him from the room their parents were twice because Erik was going there constantly. You can hear Erik screaming on the 911 call and Lyle telling him, screaming at him to get out of there (he went back several times during Lyle's phone call) And also you said about Erik how he leans forward to hear better, he was disgnosted with multiple speech, hearing and understanding disorders and severe PTSD. Also i want to point out that their therapists said that at the time of the crime their emotional maturity was between the ages of 10-12, if we can explain Lyle's crying on the phone (Chase said something about this) Mark, i think the soften of, what we all call abuse, and called it "thing", happened because, compared with the other things their father was doing to him, is insignificant. Also they had therapy for the past 3 years in prison , a reason, maybe of dissociation. Scott, the fact that his head was down when he said that his mom didnt interviene, is not only because he is ashamed, is more because he thinks she shouldve interviene when his father was molesting him; his mom knowing about it from the begining. And thank you for bringing up the fact that they were trained not to show emotion. That particular thing was their father philosophy, never to show emotions, dont let people read you. He also "trained" them how to not show pain. Mark, in the closing you said you cant really say if there was an other motive for killing, and the other guys said that they dont think they were in fear for their lives. For that, you have to know or listen to them testify about what happned the week prior to the killings. And i'm going to point it out in a few sentences: 1. Erik found out that he was still going to have to sleep at home 4 nights a week even if he was going to be on a college compus (so the sexual molestation wouldnt stop) 2. Erik tells his brother about the abuse he endured for 12 years (Lyle's abuse was from 6-8 years old, Erik's was from 6-18 years old) because he was afraid he would kill himself otherwise, he wanted Lyle to do something about it. 3. They found out their mother knew about the sexual abuse all their lives and never intervened. 4. Lyle confronts his father, telling him that if he wont stop touching Erik, he will tell the police and the family, Jose refuses to stop the molestation and at some point (on the night of the killings) as Lyle is talking about a place he wants to go for a tennis training, Jose says something like "why you want to go? it doesnt matter anymore now" as if he already decided to kill his sons due to the fact that they now want to go to the police. As Lyle said, a lot of things happened in that last week to really make them believe that their parents were going to kill them. If someone happened to read all this and is willing to know more about the case but doesnt want to spend months (like me) watching the trial on Court Tv, please watch the mini series Erik Menendez speaks on, called "Erik tells all" relating everything that happened . Thank you for this video, it was really interesting and powerful!
Also another thing i would like to add for people saying Lyle lied about his mothers sexually abusing him: Dr Conte evaluated Lyle throughout the 90s and he mostly focused on Lyles abuse. He said that talking about his father was emotional for him, however some aspects of abuse by his mom was “positive” for Lyle and that he really yearned for affection from his mother and her doing that was somewhat positive for him, he noticed those details while talking to him. He also recounted that Lyle was very reluctant and refused to fully open up to him about his abuse. Lyle experienced several other very traumatic stuff but he downplayed it on the stand to protect his parents, he was not lying about anything.
There are also other testimonies from different people that really proves that it’s most likely that Lyle got molested by his mother too. But people sadly too often love to say it’s a lie.
If I was their mother I would have killed my husband. Then help my kids hide his body. Kidding, I’d have reported the dirty sod. No one would touch my kids and get away with it.
Family members testified the mom would be covered in bruises, and I think one of the sons said he would r*pe Kitty too. It seems like they were such a dysfunctional family.
As someone with a similar father as they had, they were clearly and visibly abused. Does that justify gunning them down? Of course not, but I understand why they did it. I certainly thought about it or my father since the violent abuse was that bad. But I never did. If they were poor women that did the same thing, all the naysayer critics of them would be supporting the women. It’s because these were rich white young men, and small minds are unable to differentiate. Only those that violently abused repeatedly by a monster parent understand these guys.
I only found this case a year or so ago and it was one of the hardest things I've ever watched and I watch/listen to this stuff all day long at work. These men should not be in prison.
To me Chase’s comment that murder/killing may not be so deviant a thought/behavior based on the context of the family these boys lived in is a brilliant point (paraphrasing). This case devastates me. If these were girls telling the story, there would have been a very different outcome. I’m down the Menendez rabbit hole currently.
@@whiteheart6827how are you so sure. Abuse of any kind especially SA is very traumatic, those boys were abused in a very traumatic way,this is my opinion.
Yay! This is one I've been hoping you'd cover. Could you please do Nichol Kessinger (Chris Watts' girlfriend) and her possible guilty knowledge or involvement?
I've been through SA. These boys were abused. By their father. It was allowed by their mother. They shouldn't have done what they did, but I understand They've more than done their time. They did their time before they went to prison, too. They went through horrific abuse, at the hands of the people who should have protected them.
I think the grief muscle isn't there because he's not in the grieving stage yet; he's still just a confused, lonely little boy who's relieved to be heard for the first time in his life.
It was the 90's and we never heard about sexual abuse in any trial. The media portrayed it as they were lying about the abuse to get out of jail . I watch this now and realize they were abused. It's so sad
They still won’t discuss it. Why didn’t ME TOO include only women but not CHILDREN when pedophiles run Hollywood, the Catholic Church & goes all the way to the highest echelons of government & the Elite… All scams, all Bs. If we can’t protect our children then wtf are we good for?!
Really glad you did this one, as I must admit, I thought they were spoilt rich kids looking for an excuse, but I can see the genuineness in their testimony. A shame that they went to trial at a time when this defence wasn’t really accepted or well understood
Whew. This one was hard... I knew about them but never saw any footage, and the level of abuse seems horrible. What a horrible waste of four lives. Scott, you’re so cute when you get mad and say “Dadgummit!” ☺️
Actually 5 lives, their cousin Andy later overdosed over years of guilt in 2003 for not helping Erik when he told him about the abuse when he was 13 and Andy was 10.
It’s absolutely horrible what these boys had to go through- the inhumane emotional and physical abuse, and then to relive it in front of the whole world through the case, word for word, thought to thought. It takes tremendous strength to first live it and then retell it before the world!
I literally gasped and screamed "NO!!?" when I saw that thumbnail. No later than yesterday I was thinking to myself I wish the panel would do the Menendez brothers.
Anyone who understands the psychology behind this kind of extreme abuse on all levels since childhood would never question why they didn’t “just leave”. Similar to Gypsy Rose (and some cult scenarios), the psychological and emotional terror and manipulation kept them captive, making them feel as if they didn’t have any other way out. Don’t forget that they lived in this terror from the day they were born and it shaped their entire worldview.
I was an abused child sexually by my older brother and physically by my dad and sister. So I really believe them and I feel sad for them, I really do. And if you look into the history of physical and sexual abuse by rich people and celebrities then you understand that they are telling the truth. Look at Corey Haim. It's awful what they have been through.
This was interesting, thank you. I watched this trial as it was happening, it was one of the most heart wrenching trials I have ever seen. I believed Lyle and Eric were abused, that abuse fractured them and the parents received a just sentence.
The brothers were lying. By killing his mother, Lyle said on tape to his therapist, the brothers “were doing her and us a favor . . . putting her out of her misery, really.” But it would be ridiculous to kill only their mother, Lyle Menendez said, and leave their father alive. Erik Menendez said. “He was putting my mother through torture,” Lyle Menendez said, “we thought that we would just kill Dad, and eliminate the problem.”
Timestamp Guide 1:25 Quick run down 3:01 Clip One 3:47 Eyebrows 6:00 Jugular vain 6:39 Lip biting adapter 9:01 Signaling with brows 9:19 Biting lip to contain 9:54 What an adapter is 11:29 Tactic to try & get subjects shoulders even to avoid unconscious fighting stance 13:13 Clip Two 21:18 Clip Three (911 call) 23:30 Red flags 24:35 S.T.R.I.P. 27:18 What's missing 28:23 Story vs. Crime 29:30 Significant Changes 33:08 Clip Four 35:20 Auditory/Digital memory 39:32 Illustrators 43:47 Clip Five 47:43 Anti gravity movements 48:40 Clip Six 51:44 Clip Seven 1:01:18 Clip Eight 1:02:45 Softening of language 1:05:10 Honest vs. Nervous Behavior 1:06:42 Distancing language 1:10:00 Clip Nine 1:11:07 Step one for trial consultants 1:12:20 Signs of real crying 1:13:47 What's hardest to reproduce 1:17:30 Greg shows us his grief muscle & chin boss skills 1:18:27 Clip Ten 1:20:30 Traumagenic arrested development 1:24:21 Clip Eleven 1:25:32 Barriers 1:26:54 Blink rate increase & recall 1:28:46 Team focused pronouns 1:29:30 Compartmentalization & dissassociation 1:32:18 BP giving their verdict
Scott's comment that small children who have been abused become powerful observers is 100% acurate at least as far as my own personal experience. You learn there's no one to depend on so it's up to you to pay very careful attention.
People who have been abused become great observers, it takes years and years for others to learn. Yep, true. I lived it and can pick up on things many others can't.
@@imjusthereforthecomments4159 yes. It's very true and sad. From what I've researched abused people can feel so much of what others are feeling, but then have a hard time connecting with themselves. This is part of the work that has to happen as you get older so you can learn your true self.
I knew three adults who had been severely abused as children and had become very skilled manipulators... but they were also victims of other manipulators because they were trapped in certain patterns (e.g., while pathologically playing daddy to other adults, they were each looking for a father figure, were convinced by any sign of authority, were severely under the sway of a friend or shrink, etc.) I say this just to remind you that abuse can activate and train certain skills, but at the same time create major blind spots on one's own functioning. The key is to go to the end of self-knowledge and deconditioning.
Wow, I didn’t know that. Last I heard they’re were really involved in teaching inmates and adding value to other prisoners lives. Both married aren’t they? Sad, they will never see freedom
Personally I find Scott the most intuitive and empathetic when reviewing these cases. I think he’s spot on with his analysis of the feelings displayed towards the parents. He talks the least though which is a shame.....,again, just my view - everyone has a favourite no doubt. You’re all great though 😊
I find it interesting that there are so many new comments, all of us drawn here by the Netflix dramatization. Monsters did not paint them in a favorable light, please remember it was a drama show. Listen to their actual testimony and review the actual evidence. These men have done their time. Even if you disagree with me, please review the actual evidence and not the Netflix show and base your opinion on that.
@@toniderocha2588 No one does unfortunately, which is why I put stock into what the extended family members said on the stand and have continued to say since.
@@toniderocha2588we do know that witnesses were told by Kitty to stay away from the master bedroom when Jose would take the boys in even with cousins living there. The cousins heard the noises that made them want to help the brothers but were warned by Kitty to stay out of it. The photos of the boys genitalia were collected by kitty. Her handwriting on the packet saying it’s a particular birthday photos. Her demeanour was not that of a dear in the headlights blocking out knowledge. She was fully aware and not showing fear
They were convicted of 1st degree murder in the state of California. The judge had 2 sentencing options - death penalty or life without parole. He gave them the lightest sentence allowed by the state of California. There aren't a lot of legal options available. Had they negotiated a plea deal in the beginning, they would probably be out on parole today. They chose to fight the charges. They claimed self defense, but the crime does not meet the legal standard of "self defense." Honestly, their lawyer failed them by leaning on the abuse rather than pleading to lesser charges.
@@cassie1264it did meet the standards of imperfect self-defence, which was what half the jury who believed them voted in the first trial. They didn't give them the option to vote for that in the second trial.
Doesn't change the fact that they killed their parents in cold blood. It was pre-meditated. If they were so afraid, as legal adults, they could have left their home and gone no-contact. It's not that people don't empathize with the abuse they've been through, but it was an unnecessary murder of two people.
@@VivPhotography Well the legal defence the brothers had argued was imperfect self defence and all that is really required is that the person has a genuine but unreasonable belief that their life is in danger. It's definitley possible that the brothers were in fear at the time and there is evidence which points towards the killing being unplanned. This is why they had two hung juries in their first trial.
@@VivPhotography Nah... If the death penalty was made for anyone, it’s pedos. Also, their second trial was full of misconduct & parricide cases do not usually serve LWOP. They should’ve never been handed that sentence. Ever. Also, Abuse causes death... It’s not funny that ppl think you can break another person and it won’t come back around to bite you in the arse. Abuse in and of itself is a type of murder. Breaking someone else’s spirit the way their parents did is a death. Ppl don’t take it seriously enough.
@@VivPhotography are you for real?!?! The brothers had the mental maturity of 10-12yrs old because of all they suffered, plus victims of long term abuse, sexual, physical, whatever, do not think rationally, they can’t do what others would see as “normal”! It’s why so many domestic violence victims are with the perpetrator for many years sometimes, they cannot ‘just leave’!! It’s why, sometimes, the victim kills in self-defence, because they see no other way for it to stop. In some cases, it takes the perpetrator hurting another person, a child, a family member, etc, for the victim to be able to ask for help or to retaliate
I grew up in an extremely controlled, abusive household. We were good kids who suffered for doing things like talking to each other in the house or stealing food from the refrigerator . I lived in fear and tried to live by all the rules so I didn’t suffer as much as my older siblings. to get right to my point, when I heard the Menendez brothers had shot their parents I thought that some horrible stuff must have happened, projecting my experience onto their situation. Throughout my childhood I thought the only way out of this hell is if my parents would die. Anytime I saw an ambulance drive past me on my walk home from school, I’d hope so strongly that it was her having a heart attack or something that would be fatal. If I were a boy with the pent up rage , I can easily see obliterating them for never protecting or caring for me. What you don’t know on the child side is that the hell is with you even if manage to get out. I can realistically see them shooting their parents to end the pain, but getting rid of them won’t take away the damage. For all of us, living free or not, your whole life is damaged.
The only difference is they were RICH and the minute they killed they went out and shopped for extremely expensive items and cars and luxury items. Greed.
@@moniquemonicat I understand that it's easy to believe that they did it out of greediness. The logic is they are already rich and the family members testified that there is no change in their spending meaning they can really buy whatever they want even tho they haven't killed their parents. I know that accusing something negative is way easier than protecting them right?
I feel the same way. I burst into tears when I saw a clip from the trial seeing Erik cried reminded me of happened to me before. Im so into this case that I will do what I can to help them in any way.
Sunset, I felt I was reading my own story. I’m so sorry that you had to go through such a horrific childhood, but you are not alone…blessings sister!❤️
Interesting that Jose Menendez has since been accused of drugging and raping a member of Menudo--a boy band. He was a music exec and that industry has a reputation for such abuses that has come out in recent days.
I believe that when asked about mum's reactions to dad's abuse, he looks down mouth half-open also for another reason. I think that he sees himself back then, remembers his mum doing nothing to help him, thinking that at the time, he didn't understand why mum wasn't helping. He felt confused, in pain and probably thinking that since mum had not reacted, it wasn't a big deal (what dad was doing to him), so he should not see it as abuse. Internal conflict caused by external, painful factors, the dearest people we trust as children, our parents. SHAME ON PARENTS LIKE THESE.
51 witnesses including family & friends who visited the home testified for the defense about the abuse the boys suffered from both parents. Very disturbing behavior
Too bad they didn’t speak up in time to save two innocent boys from becoming killers. How could anyone stand by? 51 people seemed to able to do it? Really? Shame. They let those parents ruin them. For God’s sake!
@@harrietcraig7817 That's not why a bunch of those witnesses didn't testify and in one of those cases the friend (Brian Esliminia) that Lyle asked to lie for him said that Lyle had asked him early on in his jail time (before Lyle had agreed to testify and before he had even revealed his own molestation by his father to therapists). Lyle called the friend up and told him he wouldn't be needed anymore because Lyle had agreed to testify himself and speak truthfully about his abuse. This was also corroborated by his jail priest Father Ken. One of the other instances it was stipulated to at trial that Lyle had asked his former girlfriend to lie on the advice of his previous counsel, the same year as his arrest. The only other instance of this was a letter Lyle sent to another ex girlfriend asking her to testify about a previous dinner they had together with the parents. There is debate as to whether this incident is actually true or not since there's no real indication in the letter that Lyle was asking her to lie. Outside of this all of the events seemed pretty minor in regards to their entire defense so I don't really find them to be significant, especially seeing as their own lawyers (Jill Lansing and Leslie Abramson) were actively trying to prevent Lyle from doing this. (Brian Esliminia spoke about how Leslie Abramson scolded and berated him for even agreeing to help Lyle in the first place)
If those had been young women in that trial, instead of young men, there never would have been a 2nd trial. Boys being abused is still not treated the same way, but it is getting better.
@@dianedeck you are right. They were young men, chronologically. Emotionally, I'd argue they were boys. Abuse victims often have arrested development and they were boys when the abuse started. Eric was still being raped and brutalized by his father. Since he was an adult, I don't think words like molested or abused apply. Rape and physical assault are more appropriate. Symantics aside, if 2 young women with the kind of history of physical, psychological, and sexual abuse starting in childhood and continuing into adulthood that these boys experienced, were on trial, the 1st hung jury would have been the end of it. Feminists would have championed them, books and movie deals would have followed. Women would not have been doubted. Boys/men who are sexually abused are treated differently. Especially back then, even still now.
I agree. It is heartbreaking to know how much they suffered during their formative years. You cannot come out of that unscathed. It is just pure horror. If it was young women, there is a strong likelihood they would have gotten off. Double standard. These men suffered extreme abuse. Turns my stomach.
Boys (and men for that matter) are also more reluctant to come forward about their abuse. It makes it even more horrible to think how many cases are not even reported because of that. I think it's getting better though.
I was afraid to watch this as I just finished the documentary (not the docudrama) and I believe them. I don’t think they killed their parents strictly for revenge. They said they had fear, their father threatened them & they were young, 18 and 21. Also Jose had told Eric he was not allowed to go away to college. Lyle wanted to stop his younger brother’s abuse.
People just didn't want to hear about boys being raped by their own father, and they blamed these guys for talking about it. Watch the whole trial and listen to the way the judge e.g. talks to them - total contempt verging on anger and hatred. You were boys! Why didn't you just punch him off? That actually seems to be the attitude. Meanwhile they were 6 when the dad started assaulting them. Personally I don't blame them for killing their rapists - and I do include the sadistically complicit mom in that - just to make it end. Hell, just as revenge. But I can also believe they legitimately feared for their lives.
My filthy pedophile dad did this as well. Apart from the daily abuse and constant humiliation, they try to drown you under the pretense of teaching you how to swim. He took away my sandals and I was forced to walk on burning hot pavement which left me with scars on my feet. If I told you everything he did you would not believe me. I still have nightmares about him to this day and I'm in my 60's now.
I’m so sorry your father did this to you. I am so sorry that you didn’t have someone to take you out of the situation. Regardless of what happened, you sound like a fighter. I hope you have people supporting you and embracing you with love and peace.
I wasn't on their side 35 years ago. Now, it's hard to not have empathy for the brothers. Especially after hearing that their father was also a predator in the Menudo child s.a. scandal.
@@TheBehaviorPanel 😞 Sad on your behalf. My "Fardo" died 37 years ago and he is still a big part of my mental furniture (which he is not allowed to be on, btw).
These poor guys never had a chance in life and I presume the majority of viewers will never understand what a mix of fear and shame creates. They were failed by their parents, coaches, teachers and eventually the judicial system.
The other video of what they went through is unimaginable that parents could do this & make them act like they are proper. Family's used to keep all the downfalls secret because no one wanted the neighbors to know God forbid. I pray they get another trial 🙏🏻 ✝️
Scott, it seems true that they were trained not to show emotions. The brothers mention several times that their parents didn't like them to show emotions.
I'm totally with Chase. When you're in an abusive household, you are groomed and softening language is the way the horror is swept under the rug and "normalized". So, so sad. These boys grew up with horror. They "snapped". The spending a lot is not so weird to me, either- they lived in 90210, maybe that was a type of psychological revenge. A shout of "freedom".
It's unbelievable how many times the attorney said "when your father had sex with you" or "when the rough sex occured" And never "when your father RAPED you" or "when the RAPE occured" - I guarantee this made a huge difference within the jury. The way you talk about it matters.
They killed their parents. Why didn't they seek help or left the house? If they knew it was wrong? Why didn't they call the cops? You can't just kill people. It's basics.There were many solutions avaiable for them and they chose the worst.
These men are not guys that will be a harm to society. They were terribly abused, and yes they did a very bad thing but they would not go on a killing rampage if let free. In my opinion, the father deserved to die. Maybe not so at the hand of the boys but who else would have done it? If there truly is a Hell, I hope he is down there! A heartbreaking story .
@@zovalentine7305 Agree. But we have to obey society's rules. It is up to the Judiciary to decide about such parents. Otherwise it would be all a mess and even worst things would happen. But I believe in God and I believe that this kind of people have a very special place to them so that they can learn. And we as a society knowing that such things exist must make avaiable to young and older people help so that the bad guys have their time in prison and don't harm anyone else. And the victims can begin a treatment. Killing the abuser is a no solution. Thousands of years ago it was the answer. Today it isn't. 🌷🙏🌷
I can’t believe in 2024 there’s still so many outdated assumptions and theories about these brothers in the comments. The money argument is completely ridiculous when they already had access to their parents funds - they’d bought Lyle a condo and were paying for his college already! It was purely that they finally confronted their father about the abuse and things snowballed out of hand due to their fathers threats to kill them over the years, and the panic that he might make good on those threats so they felt they had to do it first.
I think they probably were molested, but I don't believe this as a self defense case. Their claim in thay respect isnt believable to me. They were adults and could have left at any time. They bought the shot guns two days in advance, planned it, murdered their parents, removed evidence & lied about it. They ran out of shells, only to go back for more to finish off their mother, whom I'm skeptical of having done anything other than possibly being a bad parent. I think they wanted the money and revenge on their father, so mom had to go as well.
Mark, on your point of softening abuse is very true, they also referred to RAPE as sex which was so wrong , their up bringing was so sad and traumatic 💔
@@TheBehaviorPanel You have to stop saying that, your nose is 100% normal. I'm half italian and half lebanese, so you can trust me on this! And Chase looks orange. I really like the guy, learn a lot from him, but he is orange. I'm really sorry about your dog btw 🙏
They where abused ?? For real ?Not just claiming it to get away with it moore. Cause then i can maybe a bit understand why things went south.I dont know this case at all to be honest.
@@crowmedicine3890 At the time of that trial, none of that was believed. Lots of people believed back them they were fabricating that story to gain sympathy. Fast forward to today and it’s all being challenged.
@@kelseymariel2127 yes, you're right. I remember when this case happened. Everyone thought they were two evil guys just wanting to spend mom and dad's money.
There is so much to unpack with this situation. The prosecuting attorneys were absolutely despicable human beings. They victimized the brothers all over again. Yes. They killed their parents. They have both said openly that they were sorry the second it happened and wished they could take it back. They endured years of rape and torture at the hands of their father. Their mother bore witness to the torture and betrayal and ignored it. She blamed her sons. Family members witnessed the extreme physical abuse that took place when the boys were barely out of toddlerhood. Those boys loved their dad in the twisted way an abused child frames their entire lives. The desire for love and approval from their same sex parent was twisted and manipulated into the powder keg that would eventually explode. It is painful to watch Lyle and Erik testify. The anguish is palpable. The shame so heavy they can barely form the words. The fear and pain and rage and betrayal is always swirling around their words. They are deeply humiliated to be airing their family’s deepest darkest secrets. They are conflicted in their desire to preserve their father’s legacy. They have been punished and punished in so many ways for far too long. Their 20 year separation was just a flex from the utterly corrupt and incompetent district attorneys office. The second trial was manipulated by the district attorney to create a guilty verdict as the only possible outcome. They have more than paid their debt to society. They have been model prisoners. They have worked to better the lives of those around them. Let them out. Now. It’s time.
At the dinner table....age 11....when Eric said “He would just look at her” , the memory of that, his eye movement looking up and tone of voice indicate, to me, that in his father’s look at his wife was an attitude/tone of “don’t you dare say a word” ! Facial/eye movement , intake of breath, indicates that he feels anger and strong disgust of his father. How these children suffered in horror. It is inconceivable. I know of someone who has seen “that look”. That look from his father, evokes extreme fear and she shuts down ....it is a strong , evil, psychological punch to the gut! * Extreme pain and shame when Lyle talks about his father’s abuse. Were these guys sentenced as they were , because no one knows/knew what else to do with them?
they purposely set up the second trial for their first degree murder conviction. they did not allow testimonies of the sexual abuse and the defense was extremely limited. the judge also basically got rid of the “imperfect defense” the defense argued in the first trial so the jury only had murder options. extremely sad and miscarriage of justice.
Expressions are so interesting, regarding that "look at his wife" at the dinner table. My own Dad could freeze us kids with "The Look"--but neither of my parents were abusive. It was simply a no-nonsense look that said "No, and that's my final answer." or "Don't talk back, period." Many years later after he retired, my Dad worked part time as a bus driver for our state-run residential school for deaf and hard of hearing children. He was too old by then to effectively learn American Sign Language. When the kids started getting rowdy on his bus, he only needed to look into the rear-view mirror and give them "The Look" and they settled down. He never punished them and rarely even turned in to the school for bad behavior. "The Look" was enough; he was strict, but also very fair. It is amazing how much can be communicated with only a look. I do feel sad for the Menendez brothers, I can see their father giving that signal not to interfere.
I don't think revenge was the motive - I think they wanted to put an end to it, which is quite different. It can still be premeditated but the emotion behind it is different.
I recommend watching the mini series Erik Menendez did called "Erik tells all", he explains a lot of things that were said in the court or portraited in the media (those, most of them totally false).
They may have had somewhat different motives for killing their father and their mother. I wish they were asked separate questions rather than "did you kill your father because of this and you mother because of that?".
@@coronatyrus2391 I'm always so shocked at how can people be so damn ignorant! This is utterly disgusting! How could you all totally ignore sooooo many corroborating witnesses and evidences?? Lord 🤦♀️
I’ve watched many of their analyses. Always enlightening. Love that Chase gives us a tour of his house, either that or of his travels. His backgrounds vary so much.✨
When Lyle was 16-17 years old, he started losing his hair out of stress, and by the time he went to college, he was totally bald on the top of his head. poor guy has had to wear a hairpiece since before he graduated High School. How humiliating! Pops was a douche
At the time of the trial I thought they were evil, spoilt kids. Now I see them as victims who couldn’t take the life long abuse anymore. Tortured by the father and a mother who let it happen.
Amazing that you guys said this two years ago and now with the Menudo documentary, it has come out that the Menendezes's father also raped one or some of the band members... so now the Menendez brothers are going to try to appeal again. I hope they get a shot at being free.
I do too. I feel bad bc I misjudged these guys back in the day. Now that I am a mental health counselor and I see so much trauma, I'm so ashamed of myself.
Not only is this the most interesting subject matter ever, it's heartwarming to see four experts being so friendly, respectful and kind to each other without egos getting in the way. Thank you for being such great role models gentlemen.
This 🙌🏼 they are so respectful. It’s like a fresh breath of air listening to them converse.
And you can see over time that they are all learning from each other... It's really cool! 🙂 It must be exciting for them at their level in their field
I was hoping for this one.
I agree. They are each comfortable and confident in their own knowledge and skills that they don't feel like they have to compete. They just get to the heart of the issue.
Yep, no mansplaining here 😀
I'm 56, and never considered myself a groupie until I started listening to these gentlemen.
Lol!
🤣😂
57 here and feel the same. "Absolutely" love them and the panelists. What a great group of people and it's all due to these Rock Stars!
🎙️🎧🎸🎵🎺🎼🎷
Me, too. And I'm 59. I'm a huge fan of these guys, and I really look forward to their videos.
💯 agreed!
These boys have been treated like they're lesser humans their whole lives. Society told them it didn't care what they suffered as children. That's messed up.
VERY!!
Based on what evidence? Or because you think it, it must be true?
You treat them like celebrities. They are not. They are shmurderers.
I was a kid when this happened and my perspective of this case was extremely skewed to the negative against them. Why did people think it was okay to make fun of these two? Their childhoods were HORRIFIC.
I feel bad bc I misjudged these guys back in the day. Now that I am a mental health counselor and I see so much trauma, I'm so ashamed of myself for drinking the Kool aid
The case was presented as they killed their parents for the inheritance.
Because they were rich.
@@cynthiakluck-johnson5895 as a mental health worker???? I'm very disappointed at your tunnel vision. Don't use victims you have assessed and referred to the correct services to annalise these 2, on tv no less! That is disrespectful. These 2 are on tv for gods sake! They have not recieved a diagnosis that would be a pathway to your 'counciling'. And you have not even considered neuro divergence. ODD for example. Left untreated is the pre cursor to the worst anti-social personality disorders - psychopathy, sociopathy etc. Untreated leads to the worst entitlement and defiance. Not the person's fault if the experts overlook it in the vital early/formative years. It is genetic as you would be aware. Many of my colleges agree they would most definitely recommend neuro assessments with these 2 problematic, immature young adults. Obviously, some of the behavioural issues could very well be trauma, however we dont know, as they have refused all assessments. And as a MH expert, you would agree that many many people have had the most horrific lies, life destroying false accusations told about them, all due to the ODD RETRIBUTION. As you are aware, they live for it, retribution is their fuel. It is very often the answer to that old question, "what makes someone a mass murderer?" or, "how could someone kill thier parents?".
@@annabell3385and it wasn't ? The money spent afterwards was just a little byproduct of the premeditated murder. Nice . 🤢
It's unbelievable that these guys got life while Casey Anthony is a free woman...
That's absolutely maddening. That goes to show all the different factors that go into a case- evidence, representation, jury, judge, etc.
No justice for Kaylee thats for sure 😔
A true travesty.
Amata...
The only thing that's unbelievable...
Is the fact that they didn't get the gas-chambers!! It would've safe the taxpayers some money!!
so sad :(
The panel would like to see you do OJ Simpson...and if Mark says he’s never heard of the case, I want Scott, Greg and Chase to read his body language
hilarious!!!
Lol!
You just won the Internet!!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼🥇🏆
Haha that's great..🤣🤣
Mark would be excellent analyzing Johnnie razzle dazzle Cochran 🎬😁🧤
I would not want to be on the receiving end of an interrogation by Greg. He's intimidating enough just sitting in silence ...
I would mess with exactly none of these guys.
No but I would love to see anyone who ever crossed me get interrogated by him. He would make a great body guard. 😉
Everyone scared of Greg...😂
He’ll waterboard ya.
Agreed with all. I want him to negotiate my next car deal for me
I worked under Mendez for 1 year. In a meeting, he told us, we were family. I told myself, 1st were not family and secondly, if this is how you treat family, I’m out of here. I quit shortly after that meeting. About 6 months later, he was murdered by his sons. I had no idea how bad he was at home but he was an angry man with underlying issues.
His colleagues despised him and said they were happy to hear he was killed. I mean that says a lot about the type of person he was smh
Did u meet Lyle? If so, how did he come across to you?
@CherylAnnRose an unfortunate and cruel typical life scenario: unhealthy and unwell parents raising unhealthy and unwell children. Who do we blame? M/ seniors father? His grandfather or great-grandfather? At some point, the cycle of systematic abuse needs to be broken, not elevated to homicide. All players in this scenario are on the same MH and behavioural spec. All 3 are unstable evil abusers.
Ppl who are idolising the M/ bros are forgetting that the youngest M/ was SA'd by his BROTHER. yet they want a p*do out on the streets? This screams of unbalanced 🤔 thinking.
@jennibarnes140 Lyle was a kid when he did that to Erik. That doesn't make him a pedophile. Stop it. They're both victims. And they killed their parents probably partly in revenge. But they have served their time for that. I bet anything neither of these boys hurts another person. Ever. And they will be released. Mark my words.
@Mamma20111987 he was 12, and yes, kids at that age are removed from other kids and have de programing due to the exceptionally high risk. Pedos almost always did it to coudins, siblings, and schoolmates in thier pre teen or teen yrs. Read some actual evidence based facts!
I just love Marks personality .Positive and bit theatrical(probably spelled that wrong).He is so funny and charming at times !
They all have their special, endearing quirks! I love how they interact with each other!
@@LúciaKitten I agree.Its a perfect "match".But Marks my fave i have to admit .
I agree. I'll always remember his damsel in distress impression "help! Help!" 😂
He uses his own body language the most. He’s the opposite of Chase 😄
@@sashasash9940 haha his accent doesn't "hurt" him one bit! 😉
My condolences on the passing of your dog Scott.
Rest in powerful peace Albert⚘
Thank you so much.
Losing a beloved pet is gut wrenching. I am so sorry for your loss.
So sorry for your loss, Scott. Prayers for your comfort and your family. Love your and your cohorts' fantastic program!!
So sorry for your loss Scott, sending you and your family lots of warm prayers.
Every time My four white uncles post, I’m here for it!!
LOL
Lol 👍
😭🤣😂
Lol 😆
😂😂
These boys were abused and obviously couldn’t find another way to end this abuse. And yes a normal human would find other ways, but they couldn’t develop normal behaviour due to the abuse.
It’s right they were sent to prison but it’s about time to set them free.
Your video’s are better than any TV show currently on the air.. 👍🏼
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⭐"ABSOLUTELY!" ⭐
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Yes and yes!!
Or any other UA-cam body language analyzers.... I sampled a few and they have much to be desired.... i am spoiled by The Behavior Panel !!!!
🌟 🌟 🔎 🔬 🔍 🌟 🌟
Yes
15 mins in and Scott has said something very profound (to me) about how children who are abused become incredible observers, this I know to be true as I am always observing other people and watching to see how “the land lies” before saying or doing anything.
I think it's true, speaking personally, but after something happened to me, I was able to work out who was good or bad for my family and friends but never had the ability for myself unless it was really obvious. Nowadays if someone in my house is acting slightly different, like a pin dial different from normal I'm asking them what's up, which can get really annoying for them lol!
I'm the same way. When I was younger and around others I would be very quiet watch everything and everyone before I interact. I never knew that was why. Amazing always learning something new.
I just thought I was guarded and wanted to gain information about others before I share my own. Can't be trusting just any one!
This absolutely true. In my experience and the way I've explained it before is you're constantly on guard waiting for others to turn on you. You're super alert and begin to decode their behaviours and moods. Everything I'm learning from the guys are things I've picked up from being super observant. Just that now, I have proper terminology and definitions. Really a mind blowing realization as an adult!
Same here..
Greg, I am sure many of your viewers have said this, but I am deeply sorry for your loss and for that of your wife.
I have one child, a son who is an adult. I can only imagine the nightmarish and never ending heartbreak this has caused you both. There can be no greater loss. 💔
I was also going to offer my condolences. I always say there is no greater loss than to lose a child. Our son was recently in a horrible car accident and has severe brain damage. We can barely function. I can only imagine what devastation the finality of losing a child would be like. 💔
@@VioletJoy So sorry to hear about your sons accident my thoughts and love to your family
@@christopherferriman5876 I really appreciate that. He recently spent his 21st birthday in the hospital - not exactly what we had in mind.
@@VioletJoy I'm sorry to hear that. I had a serious pedestrian accident when I was 21 and got hit in a crosswalk by a car going 40mph. Recovering mentally and emotionally was a million times more difficult than recovering physically, which wasn't easy either. Hopefully you can all get professional support.
Oh geez I didn't know this. I'm so sorry. 💜
If you have never been abused sexually, physically and or emotionally/mentally you have ABSOLUTELY no clue how well you can hide it especially when you need to. They deserve to be free now.
i got out of an abusive (verbal /emotional/physical) long term situation with my mother at 19 (after being abused since I was 5 or 6) by literally just running away and now I am 30 . The police actually asked me if I wanted to put her in jail and in the end I just told them I want an ongoing permanent restraining order. Honestly, I think society imagines family, especially mothers as people that can "do no wrong" and that by doing this (restraining order) I am being cruel to my parents, but they dont really understand the longterm scars that abuse can lead that is almost like killing a child.
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@@Adara007 Hi there. Yes it's getting better. I have been trying to get back in relationship with my cousins now. I tried to get back to see if I could do a relationship with my mom, but that is not the case. I also have been working a lot on myself, a lot of therapy, and I eventually want to go back to school for a master's in psychology as well because I feel that I could be helpful for others in that way. I am encouraged by your words and I'm glad you were able to make a negative to a positive. The biggest thing I am dealing with right now is the aftereffects it gives you. Sometimes I just randomnly blank on things. Sometimes someone may say something to me but I dont hear them. A lot of self judgement in my head.
@Kybele Kordax I'd like to connect if that's ok
As a survivor of childhood abuse by my parents, I can totally confirm that being in the moment of a memory can cause a survivor to revert back to a child. I will disassociate or go into child mode whenever there is confrontation or I'm worried that I've upset someone or if I've done something wrong... even just spilling a drink... I apologise all the time to the point where my husband has told me countless times that I say sorry too much but the residual guilt makes me feel like I've still not said sorry enough. I constantly feel like I'm not good enough. I cannot imagine how traumatic it must be to have experienced such horrific abuse only to end up in jail without any chance for freedom. Trauma upon trauma upon trauma.
@America's Rabbit Hole Thank you for sharing too. I totally relate to fearing that your partner will leave. I still don't understand why my husband stays with me. I have so many issues but I've spent years in and out of therapy but I still have a poor view of myself. It's a comfort to know we're not alone. BIG HUGS xx
Funny, my reaction was to harden. Apologies were never said cause they were never accepted. The abuse only stopped when the anger was spent. It has been difficult, but life goes on. We are damaged for life. I had to break the cycle so I didn't hurt my own children, though I wanted to. When that is all you learned, it is difficult to learn another way. I am 61 now and a great grandma. Hugs to you both.
All of what you said, true, and so familiar to me. I have CPTSD and become dysregulated in the face of loud noises or shouting (prelude to beatings), sudden events like collisions, loss of balance, sudden vulnerability. I revert instantly and become very rattled and scared. It's almost impossible to stop the reaction, even though I'm an adult and might know rationally what happened.
There is no greater plague in our society than the general prevalence of child abuse.
I agree totally.
@@jeanettecook1088 me too - about the loud noises . It causes a confusion that almost paralyses me and I’m nearly 70! I then behave like a frightened kid who has done something wrong. It’s so damaging but I managed to bring up my kids to be super kind and they are saved from the cycle that so often goes on. I think kids in school should be taught how to be a good parent! They would then recognise if their own parents are abusive, plus be better prepared to be a parent themself. I found that counselling still helps every now and then, plus a 10 minute mediation for the anxiety. X
As a survivor myself of child abuse, torture by the very persons who were supposed to care for me (in my case a mentally ill adoptive mother), I can tell you that the rage and shame and fear are very intense for a little child. Many many children who are severely abused fantasize about killing their abusers. Most of us, I guess, just don’t have the nerve. Also yes you don’t show emotion. You learn that abusers get off on that; they love the screaming and crying and begging. So you learn to be stoic.
I hope you find peace - I’m sorry you had to endure that. Keep going and say kind things to yourself every single day. I’ve found that hugging myself deliberately as a soother, works well. It tells my body that it’s cared for as an adult even if it missed that part as a child. Bless you x
agree.. when i was 12 ,i almost go through with it, i was holding a knife on her forehead while she was asleep ,the second time i was going to bash his head but I can't possibly be strong enough to actually kill them because i was obviously smaller than them ... That realization made me dropped the plan altogether.. i was also afraid that people might paint me as monster if my abusers die ,i mean i have no evidence so I'll be the evil one..
It's true i fantasize killing em almost everyday, even now in adulthood,i still wish i could harm them the same way they did me.. but some of em are already dead and the others have their own family, i couldn't bring myself to take that away ..
it's so frustrating.. it's like the world moves on but you're still stuck in a loop..
So true. 😪🙏🤍
Very, very true about the stoicism!
I’m glad my comment enabled some great conversation about it. To those who are younger than me (I will be 60 next year) please know that the road to recovery is long and painful but worth it. It is a lifelong journey. It is totally NORMAL to feel intense anger and confusion and probably around age 35+ is when you can even approach being ready to move past that phase. What really helps is stuff like yoga, movement, exercise, animals, finding the beauty in the world in tiny places. Build a safe place for yourself mentally.
so little empathy even in 2024 is crazy to me.. I thought the world would be more trauma informed by now..
My heart broke for these two brothers. I really liked how the panel pointed out common traits and adapters that abused kids develop. I could just imagine the two of them being broken as young boys and it just made me sick! I have a young boy of my own and it makes my stomach hurt to think of how these two suffered! I'm sorry, but not sorry, I can't muster much sympathy for the parents. The mother and father sentenced both of thier sons to a life sentence long before the murders.
Chase is talking about a triggered trauma response. Because the nervous system doesn’t tell time, when we recall something traumatizing, the entire body and brain are engaged as if we are surviving that trauma again.
100%, that really makes sense to me having survived childhood trauma too
PTSD
And that's why cps is being sued
In the simplistic form; As a mature adult, when a parent demeans you in that familiar, condescending tone; “Oh, Kathy...”- You spring right back into the emotional mind of your “10-year-old self”, even though you’re 60! I’m sure we’ve all experienced it. These scars run deep. Suddenly, you’re that kid who disappointed or fell short...again.
ABSOLUTELY. 💯
You four realize by now that we -the panelists-are watching as much to fangirl you guys as we are “the content” 😊❣️😘❤️
🙃
@@TheBehaviorPanel so THAT'S what that emoji is for
Dibs on Mark 🤭🥰
@@dianjane I said fangirl not onlyfan. For goodness sake it’s online fanspeak for their synergy and communication as a cohort. What in the world 😳!
🤩
Anyone wondering why they didn’t leave needs to consider that the younger one was still being raped by his father at age 18. Th is illustrates how arrested he was in his development and just how tyrannised he was by his father. Most boys abused physically or sexually by a male family member end the abuse once they mature to the level of strength that they can protect themselves around age 15. But he didn’t because he was abused into a state of total helplessness. That’s why he asked his older brother for help to make it stop.
@@freudulant they couldn't think about running away because their development was limited yet they could devise the murder plans, lie to the police, buy restaurants and private coaches, throw parties and what not ? That's what I don't get it. Is not like they just snapped and then panicked and called police and confess about the situation! That was not the case. So they DID had some presence of mind didn't they ?!
@@hnr4994 yes these are childish solutions and childish plans with no foresight into the future consequences. Very common with cases of childhood trauma. You don’t understand abuse dynamics and it shows. I’m not blaming you, the questions contrasting what they could versus couldn’t do is a logical questioning thought process. But normal presumptions based on well functioning brains just don’t apply here. Their brains do not function in the same way as someone else who has healthy attachment with their primary caregivers.
Forgot all about these guys! Great video, as always.
So.... I'm a flight medic. We work 24 hour shifts. As soon as admin is gone for the day (they're a bunch of buzzkills), our tones are replaced with Mark saying "HELP, HELP" when we get a call out 😏 Unless I cant use his voice without permission. If that's the case, this is strictly a hypothetical scenario.
Lmao! That's truly awesome!
Lol thats so cool. Might as well make the best out of a potentially bad situation and start off on a light note. Marks Help,Help cry is the best.
🤣
DM me at ScottRouse.com and I’ll send you the mp3 and wav files. 🙂👍
LOL, well he doesn't own the phrase...however if you are using recording of Mark actually saying it...nah, your still good.
Now you've got Body Language experts saying the brothers are being truthful about the abuse and people will still refuse to believe it lol.
It's not an excuse for cold-blooded, calculated m*u*r*d*e*r. They were young adults who could have ask a counselor for help, reported their parents to the authorities, or left home and started their new lives. They made this decision. They are psychos who should never be released from custody.
@@tengallonhat2741 So by your logic someone who was brutally abused their entire life and felt they had no other choice but to kill the person who abused them means that person is a psycho? Like the panel mentioned in the video, abuse stunts a person immensely. Experts evaluated the Menendez brothers to be at a mental age of 8-10, and they didn't see the options that you've laid out as viable options because of that. Also I think one look at the crime scene will tell you this was not cold-blooded but in fact there was a high degree of emotion and overkill based on the randomness and number of shots.
@@mayakrause9384 Even when you are 8 or 10 you know you can't kill people. It was not self defense. Were they afraid for their lives? They could leave their house. No away.
@@tengallonhat2741It’s not an excuse but an explanation. I don’t think life without parole is appropriate for two people who were terrorised their entire life and finally snapped. Abuse from such a young age changes the way your brain develops. They clearly made decisions that weren’t rational and saw no other way out. Also I don’t think they’re “psychos”. All of the experts who evaluated them said they didn’t have enough of the traits to be diagnosed with anti social personality disorder. One of these people was Park Dietz who evaluated people like Jeffery Dahmer.
@@mayakrause9384 "...and felt they had no other choice but to kill the person who abused them." ----- These were intelligent, adult young men and this heinous, cold-blooded act was un-necessary and pre-meditated. I believe the jury made the right decision.
Greg seems like the sweetest, kindest and gentlest man in the world. At the same time one you would never mess with. I think most true alphas are like that. A teddy bear, but a grizzly bear at the same time.
Greg ❣ Hartley
Yea I agree I think he's so cool for his knowledge
Nailed it.
Can you imagine if he had a daughter, and when she got old enough to date? Wouldn't want to be a guy in that scenario! Or maybe the daughter either. Ha!
That's exactly it. True alphas are people who don't need to tell you that they're alphas.
Those boys absolutely should have not got life sentences .I know what it's like to have a father who was extremely abusive ,both emotionally and violently. And I tell you now .if I hadn't been so young and scared of him and a female ,I'm not sure what I would have been cable of because the one thing I do remember is wishing him dead every day from my earliest awareness of how much I hated him,that's what abuse can do over many years .
yes, I also hated my stepfather so intense that he fell from the potty dead with his naked butt in the air at 54 years. Nobody grieved, not even his own young son. What had made my hate even more severe was that my mom told me nor to take myself so seriously. What she meant was that it didn't matter what he was doing to me because I was not important
I understand and I can tell you now ,that you mum obviously didn't know any better unfortunately and that you are and always where important and whatever happened was not your doing or fault.Treat the little child that u where once back then,we all the love and care ,that you always deserved ❤️
It's a privilege to view you guys doing this stuff. I really look forward to these each week. Thank you. Greg UK.
Thanks so much!
IM BLOWN AWAY THAT THESE TWO BROTHERS KILLED THERE PARENTS WITH A SHOT GUN..AND KNOWING THERE GUNNA GET CAUGHT AND SPEND THE REST OF THERE LIVES IN JAIL....THE PREMEDATATION KNOWING THE END RESULTS AND THIS NEVER MADE THEM CHANGE THERE MINDS..ITS A UN ANSWERED QUESTION THAT IF I RECALL WAS NEVER BROUGHT OUT OR ASKED THE BROTHERS.
@@MarkBowden1 HEY MARK.
@@tinabriggs162 Hey!
The fact that the abuse was not allowed in the second trial is a miscarriage of justice imo. If this trail happened today, the end result would be much different!
Greg, the conflict Lyle had with his brother before calling 911 was that Erik was in so much distress that Lyle had to drag him from the room their parents were twice because Erik was going there constantly. You can hear Erik screaming on the 911 call and Lyle telling him, screaming at him to get out of there (he went back several times during Lyle's phone call)
And also you said about Erik how he leans forward to hear better, he was disgnosted with multiple speech, hearing and understanding disorders and severe PTSD.
Also i want to point out that their therapists said that at the time of the crime their emotional maturity was between the ages of 10-12, if we can explain Lyle's crying on the phone (Chase said something about this)
Mark, i think the soften of, what we all call abuse, and called it "thing", happened because, compared with the other things their father was doing to him, is insignificant. Also they had therapy for the past 3 years in prison , a reason, maybe of dissociation.
Scott, the fact that his head was down when he said that his mom didnt interviene, is not only because he is ashamed, is more because he thinks she shouldve interviene when his father was molesting him; his mom knowing about it from the begining.
And thank you for bringing up the fact that they were trained not to show emotion. That particular thing was their father philosophy, never to show emotions, dont let people read you. He also "trained" them how to not show pain.
Mark, in the closing you said you cant really say if there was an other motive for killing, and the other guys said that they dont think they were in fear for their lives. For that, you have to know or listen to them testify about what happned the week prior to the killings. And i'm going to point it out in a few sentences:
1. Erik found out that he was still going to have to sleep at home 4 nights a week even if he was going to be on a college compus (so the sexual molestation wouldnt stop)
2. Erik tells his brother about the abuse he endured for 12 years (Lyle's abuse was from 6-8 years old, Erik's was from 6-18 years old) because he was afraid he would kill himself otherwise, he wanted Lyle to do something about it.
3. They found out their mother knew about the sexual abuse all their lives and never intervened.
4. Lyle confronts his father, telling him that if he wont stop touching Erik, he will tell the police and the family, Jose refuses to stop the molestation and at some point (on the night of the killings) as Lyle is talking about a place he wants to go for a tennis training, Jose says something like "why you want to go? it doesnt matter anymore now" as if he already decided to kill his sons due to the fact that they now want to go to the police. As Lyle said, a lot of things happened in that last week to really make them believe that their parents were going to kill them.
If someone happened to read all this and is willing to know more about the case but doesnt want to spend months (like me) watching the trial on Court Tv, please watch the mini series Erik Menendez speaks on, called "Erik tells all" relating everything that happened .
Thank you for this video, it was really interesting and powerful!
THIS is excellent. I nominate you for your own show.
THANK YOU!
Also another thing i would like to add for people saying Lyle lied about his mothers sexually abusing him: Dr Conte evaluated Lyle throughout the 90s and he mostly focused on Lyles abuse. He said that talking about his father was emotional for him, however some aspects of abuse by his mom was “positive” for Lyle and that he really yearned for affection from his mother and her doing that was somewhat positive for him, he noticed those details while talking to him. He also recounted that Lyle was very reluctant and refused to fully open up to him about his abuse. Lyle experienced several other very traumatic stuff but he downplayed it on the stand to protect his parents, he was not lying about anything.
There are also other testimonies from different people that really proves that it’s most likely that Lyle got molested by his mother too. But people sadly too often love to say it’s a lie.
Wow! What a great comment!
If I was their mother, I’d be the one in prison for killing their father 😡
Their mother dismissed and covered for the father for years.
A lot of mothers are complicit in their children’s ab u se and hide behind the father. But Kitty was an ab u ser too😞
If I was their mother I would have killed my husband. Then help my kids hide his body. Kidding, I’d have reported the dirty sod. No one would touch my kids and get away with it.
Ja mother's just hide it.....they prioritise their husbands more than their kids it's aick
Family members testified the mom would be covered in bruises, and I think one of the sons said he would r*pe Kitty too. It seems like they were such a dysfunctional family.
Yes!!!!!!! Oh my goodness I shouted ‘yes’ out loud when this popped up on my phone!!!! Going to get snacks and watch it right away!!!!!
I know, right ? 🙌
🤨
👆This! What a terrible case but really interested to get your individual and collective analysis. Thank you!
You're not alone! 🤓🍿
Me too
As someone with a similar father as they had, they were clearly and visibly abused. Does that justify gunning them down? Of course not, but I understand why they did it. I certainly thought about it or my father since the violent abuse was that bad. But I never did. If they were poor women that did the same thing, all the naysayer critics of them would be supporting the women. It’s because these were rich white young men, and small minds are unable to differentiate. Only those that violently abused repeatedly by a monster parent understand these guys.
I only found this case a year or so ago and it was one of the hardest things I've ever watched and I watch/listen to this stuff all day long at work. These men should not be in prison.
ok bottom line.. 1. it was planned. 2. Go into a rage and blow them to pieces, then go back and re-load.
Then party away for months on end..
I haven't watched the whole story so I don't know what has happened.
In prison for sure, but Not forever ...
@@JacGBoots1 they got life without parole
@@JacGBoots1 oh I see what you mean. Yes agree
To me Chase’s comment that murder/killing may not be so deviant a thought/behavior based on the context of the family these boys lived in is a brilliant point (paraphrasing). This case devastates me. If these were girls telling the story, there would have been a very different outcome.
I’m down the Menendez rabbit hole currently.
Yeah two of the lawyers and maybe the judge would of shoot their shot too. Your delusional. It is about the money.
I agree with you. I'm just beginning to go down the rabbit hole. Any suggestions of good videos?
@@whiteheart6827 I'm sorry I don't understand what you said.
@@cat-mum-Jules Watch the Menudo + Menendez documentary
@@whiteheart6827how are you so sure. Abuse of any kind especially SA is very traumatic, those boys were abused in a very traumatic way,this is my opinion.
Yay! This is one I've been hoping you'd cover. Could you please do Nichol Kessinger (Chris Watts' girlfriend) and her possible guilty knowledge or involvement?
Honestly, not sure I could listen to her voice ever again.
I've been through SA. These boys were abused. By their father. It was allowed by their mother.
They shouldn't have done what they did, but I understand
They've more than done their time. They did their time before they went to prison, too. They went through horrific abuse, at the hands of the people who should have protected them.
I think the grief muscle isn't there because he's not in the grieving stage yet; he's still just a confused, lonely little boy who's relieved to be heard for the first time in his life.
It was the 90's and we never heard about sexual abuse in any trial. The media portrayed it as they were lying about the abuse to get out of jail . I watch this now and realize they were abused. It's so sad
They still won’t discuss it. Why didn’t ME TOO include only women but not CHILDREN when pedophiles run Hollywood, the Catholic Church & goes all the way to the highest echelons of government & the Elite… All scams, all Bs. If we can’t protect our children then wtf are we good for?!
I remember that being their defense when it happened.
That's right different time area big difference thank God it's changing now. They should have just got 20 years and another court date .
Really glad you did this one, as I must admit, I thought they were spoilt rich kids looking for an excuse, but I can see the genuineness in their testimony. A shame that they went to trial at a time when this defence wasn’t really accepted or well understood
Whew. This one was hard... I knew about them but never saw any footage, and the level of abuse seems horrible. What a horrible waste of four lives. Scott, you’re so cute when you get mad and say “Dadgummit!” ☺️
🙃
Hahahahaha! Yes. That was cute. 💛✨
Actually 5 lives, their cousin Andy later overdosed over years of guilt in 2003 for not helping Erik when he told him about the abuse when he was 13 and Andy was 10.
@@gx9954 Oh my goodness. More tragedy.
@@gx9954 Oh, wow. I hadn't heard about this. So sad.
Hi Behavior Panel! WISHLIST 😃:
-OJ Simpson
-Whitney Houston (Diane Sawyer "crack is wack" interview)
-Princess Diana ("An Interview with HRH The Princess of Wales")
-Robert Durst (from 'The Jinx' Documentary)
-Jeffrey Dahmer (his jailhouse interview)
-Anna Nicole Smith (Marshall family fortune court case)
-Charles Manson (his 1987 jailhouse interview)
🙏🤞😃
John Bennett Ramsey, please
Jeremy Bamber.
It’s absolutely horrible what these boys had to go through- the inhumane emotional and physical abuse, and then to relive it in front of the whole world through the case, word for word, thought to thought. It takes tremendous strength to first live it and then retell it before the world!
I literally gasped and screamed "NO!!?" when I saw that thumbnail. No later than yesterday I was thinking to myself I wish the panel would do the Menendez brothers.
Me too! 🤪🤪🤪
Same...audible gasp to no one 🤣
I gasped as well. Saved it to my watch later list earlier today. Laying in bed watching now...
I was thinking the same thing yesterday.
Anyone who understands the psychology behind this kind of extreme abuse on all levels since childhood would never question why they didn’t “just leave”. Similar to Gypsy Rose (and some cult scenarios), the psychological and emotional terror and manipulation kept them captive, making them feel as if they didn’t have any other way out. Don’t forget that they lived in this terror from the day they were born and it shaped their entire worldview.
I get excited everytime I see their thumbnail pop up on my recommendation
Yay!
These lads should not be in prison. They are not a danger to anyone and have suffered so much.
I was an abused child sexually by my older brother and physically by my dad and sister. So I really believe them and I feel sad for them, I really do. And if you look into the history of physical and sexual abuse by rich people and celebrities then you understand that they are telling the truth. Look at Corey Haim. It's awful what they have been through.
I’m so sorry you were forced to endure that sadistic torture. I believe you.
So sorry and I hope you are doing OK.
This was interesting, thank you. I watched this trial as it was happening, it was one of the most heart wrenching trials I have ever seen. I believed Lyle and Eric were abused, that abuse fractured them and the parents received a just sentence.
The brothers were lying. By killing his mother, Lyle said on tape to his therapist, the brothers “were doing her and us a favor . . . putting her out of her misery, really.”
But it would be ridiculous to kill only their mother, Lyle Menendez said, and leave their father alive. Erik Menendez said. “He was putting my mother through torture,”
Lyle Menendez said, “we thought that we would just kill Dad, and eliminate the problem.”
Timestamp Guide
1:25 Quick run down
3:01 Clip One
3:47 Eyebrows
6:00 Jugular vain
6:39 Lip biting adapter
9:01 Signaling with brows
9:19 Biting lip to contain
9:54 What an adapter is
11:29 Tactic to try & get subjects shoulders even to avoid unconscious fighting stance
13:13 Clip Two
21:18 Clip Three (911 call)
23:30 Red flags
24:35 S.T.R.I.P.
27:18 What's missing
28:23 Story vs. Crime
29:30 Significant Changes
33:08 Clip Four
35:20 Auditory/Digital memory
39:32 Illustrators
43:47 Clip Five
47:43 Anti gravity movements
48:40 Clip Six
51:44 Clip Seven
1:01:18 Clip Eight
1:02:45 Softening of language
1:05:10 Honest vs. Nervous Behavior
1:06:42 Distancing language
1:10:00 Clip Nine
1:11:07 Step one for trial consultants
1:12:20 Signs of real crying
1:13:47 What's hardest to reproduce
1:17:30 Greg shows us his grief muscle & chin boss skills
1:18:27 Clip Ten
1:20:30 Traumagenic arrested development
1:24:21 Clip Eleven
1:25:32 Barriers
1:26:54 Blink rate increase & recall
1:28:46 Team focused pronouns
1:29:30 Compartmentalization & dissassociation
1:32:18 BP giving their verdict
thankssss
Scott's comment that small children who have been abused become powerful observers is 100% acurate at least as far as my own personal experience. You learn there's no one to depend on so it's up to you to pay very careful attention.
People who have been abused become great observers, it takes years and years for others to learn. Yep, true. I lived it and can pick up on things many others can't.
That blew my mind when they said that. I always wondered why I have such a good eye for detail and can pick up on things so easily. Kind of sad though
@@imjusthereforthecomments4159 yes. It's very true and sad. From what I've researched abused people can feel so much of what others are feeling, but then have a hard time connecting with themselves. This is part of the work that has to happen as you get older so you can learn your true self.
I knew three adults who had been severely abused as children and had become very skilled manipulators... but they were also victims of other manipulators because they were trapped in certain patterns (e.g., while pathologically playing daddy to other adults, they were each looking for a father figure, were convinced by any sign of authority, were severely under the sway of a friend or shrink, etc.)
I say this just to remind you that abuse can activate and train certain skills, but at the same time create major blind spots on one's own functioning.
The key is to go to the end of self-knowledge and deconditioning.
They have finally been allowed to be in the same prison. They're not on the same unit but do get to see each other now.
Wow, I didn’t know that. Last I heard they’re were really involved in teaching inmates and adding value to other prisoners lives. Both married aren’t they? Sad, they will never see freedom
Personally I find Scott the most intuitive and empathetic when reviewing these cases. I think he’s spot on with his analysis of the feelings displayed towards the parents. He talks the least though which is a shame.....,again, just my view - everyone has a favourite no doubt.
You’re all great though 😊
🙂
I find it interesting that there are so many new comments, all of us drawn here by the Netflix dramatization. Monsters did not paint them in a favorable light, please remember it was a drama show. Listen to their actual testimony and review the actual evidence. These men have done their time. Even if you disagree with me, please review the actual evidence and not the Netflix show and base your opinion on that.
The movie made the brother's look guilty. How does anyone know what was said between Kitty and Jose
@@toniderocha2588 No one does unfortunately, which is why I put stock into what the extended family members said on the stand and have continued to say since.
@@toniderocha2588we do know that witnesses were told by Kitty to stay away from the master bedroom when Jose would take the boys in even with cousins living there. The cousins heard the noises that made them want to help the brothers but were warned by Kitty to stay out of it.
The photos of the boys genitalia were collected by kitty. Her handwriting on the packet saying it’s a particular birthday photos.
Her demeanour was not that of a dear in the headlights blocking out knowledge. She was fully aware and not showing fear
They were convicted of 1st degree murder in the state of California. The judge had 2 sentencing options - death penalty or life without parole. He gave them the lightest sentence allowed by the state of California. There aren't a lot of legal options available. Had they negotiated a plea deal in the beginning, they would probably be out on parole today. They chose to fight the charges. They claimed self defense, but the crime does not meet the legal standard of "self defense." Honestly, their lawyer failed them by leaning on the abuse rather than pleading to lesser charges.
@@cassie1264it did meet the standards of imperfect self-defence, which was what half the jury who believed them voted in the first trial. They didn't give them the option to vote for that in the second trial.
How come they don't have people like these guys as jurors. Instead of regular people that can't read people from telling truth or lying. 🤔
Doesn't change the fact that they killed their parents in cold blood. It was pre-meditated. If they were so afraid, as legal adults, they could have left their home and gone no-contact. It's not that people don't empathize with the abuse they've been through, but it was an unnecessary murder of two people.
@@VivPhotography Well the legal defence the brothers had argued was imperfect self defence and all that is really required is that the person has a genuine but unreasonable belief that their life is in danger. It's definitley possible that the brothers were in fear at the time and there is evidence which points towards the killing being unplanned. This is why they had two hung juries in their first trial.
@@VivPhotography Nah... If the death penalty was made for anyone, it’s pedos. Also, their second trial was full of misconduct & parricide cases do not usually serve LWOP. They should’ve never been handed that sentence. Ever. Also, Abuse causes death... It’s not funny that ppl think you can break another person and it won’t come back around to bite you in the arse. Abuse in and of itself is a type of murder. Breaking someone else’s spirit the way their parents did is a death. Ppl don’t take it seriously enough.
@@VivPhotography The abuse like they suffered doesn’t make you rational like an adult who has had loving, caring parents .
@@VivPhotography are you for real?!?! The brothers had the mental maturity of 10-12yrs old because of all they suffered, plus victims of long term abuse, sexual, physical, whatever, do not think rationally, they can’t do what others would see as “normal”! It’s why so many domestic violence victims are with the perpetrator for many years sometimes, they cannot ‘just leave’!! It’s why, sometimes, the victim kills in self-defence, because they see no other way for it to stop. In some cases, it takes the perpetrator hurting another person, a child, a family member, etc, for the victim to be able to ask for help or to retaliate
Thank you thank you for covering this terrible story. I find the boys testimonies utterly heartbreaking 😢😢😢
Me too.. since the case, I always felt they should have had therapy and set free..
It's pretty hard stuff to watch.
@@MarkBowden1 would you guys do a part 2 reading into their testimonials, please? I really love to see your take on whether they are truthful or not.
I grew up in an extremely controlled, abusive household. We were good kids who suffered for doing things like talking to each other in the house or stealing food from the refrigerator . I lived in fear and tried to live by all the rules so I didn’t suffer as much as my older siblings. to get right to my point, when I heard the Menendez brothers had shot their parents I thought that some horrible stuff must have happened, projecting my experience onto their situation. Throughout my childhood I thought the only way out of this hell is if my parents would die. Anytime I saw an ambulance drive past me on my walk home from school, I’d hope so strongly that it was her having a heart attack or something that would be fatal. If I were a boy with the pent up rage , I can easily see obliterating them for never protecting or caring for me. What you don’t know on the child side is that the hell is with you even if manage to get out. I can realistically see them shooting their parents to end the pain, but getting rid of them won’t take away the damage. For all of us, living free or not, your whole life is damaged.
The only difference is they were RICH and the minute they killed they went out and shopped for extremely expensive items and cars and luxury items. Greed.
@@moniquemonicat I understand that it's easy to believe that they did it out of greediness. The logic is they are already rich and the family members testified that there is no change in their spending meaning they can really buy whatever they want even tho they haven't killed their parents. I know that accusing something negative is way easier than protecting them right?
I feel the same way. I burst into tears when I saw a clip from the trial seeing Erik cried reminded me of happened to me before. Im so into this case that I will do what I can to help them in any way.
I don’t think you should call them greedy.
I think you should call them victims of abuse.
Sunset, I felt I was reading my own story. I’m so sorry that you had to go through such a horrific childhood, but you are not alone…blessings sister!❤️
Interesting that Jose Menendez has since been accused of drugging and raping a member of Menudo--a boy band. He was a music exec and that industry has a reputation for such abuses that has come out in recent days.
Oh really?
I believe that when asked about mum's reactions to dad's abuse, he looks down mouth half-open also for another reason. I think that he sees himself back then, remembers his mum doing nothing to help him, thinking that at the time, he didn't understand why mum wasn't helping. He felt confused, in pain and probably thinking that since mum had not reacted, it wasn't a big deal (what dad was doing to him), so he should not see it as abuse. Internal conflict caused by external, painful factors, the dearest people we trust as children, our parents. SHAME ON PARENTS LIKE THESE.
I'd be interested in going through some Ted Bundy footage... especially where he was questioned about victims beyond what he was convicted for.
Yes, please do Ted Bundy.
I can only agree.Ive asked 3 times !
51 witnesses including family & friends who visited the home testified for the defense about the abuse the boys suffered from both parents. Very disturbing behavior
Too bad they didn’t speak up in time to save two innocent boys from becoming killers. How could anyone stand by? 51 people seemed to able to do it? Really? Shame. They let those parents ruin them. For God’s sake!
@@sandrabast7080 because Jose was a powerful millionaire mogul
@@pinkpugginz Thanks for the introspective. I bet you’re right.
It also was proved that Lyle suborned perjury-why the 50 eyewitnesses weren’t invited to the second trial.
@@harrietcraig7817 That's not why a bunch of those witnesses didn't testify and in one of those cases the friend (Brian Esliminia) that Lyle asked to lie for him said that Lyle had asked him early on in his jail time (before Lyle had agreed to testify and before he had even revealed his own molestation by his father to therapists). Lyle called the friend up and told him he wouldn't be needed anymore because Lyle had agreed to testify himself and speak truthfully about his abuse. This was also corroborated by his jail priest Father Ken.
One of the other instances it was stipulated to at trial that Lyle had asked his former girlfriend to lie on the advice of his previous counsel, the same year as his arrest.
The only other instance of this was a letter Lyle sent to another ex girlfriend asking her to testify about a previous dinner they had together with the parents. There is debate as to whether this incident is actually true or not since there's no real indication in the letter that Lyle was asking her to lie. Outside of this all of the events seemed pretty minor in regards to their entire defense so I don't really find them to be significant, especially seeing as their own lawyers (Jill Lansing and Leslie Abramson) were actively trying to prevent Lyle from doing this. (Brian Esliminia spoke about how Leslie Abramson scolded and berated him for even agreeing to help Lyle in the first place)
As a thriver who experienced early childhood abuse they are absolutely 💯 telling the truth. Intuitively I know it
Ditto that!
If those had been young women in that trial, instead of young men, there never would have been a 2nd trial. Boys being abused is still not treated the same way, but it is getting better.
These aren't boys.
@@dianedeck you are right. They were young men, chronologically. Emotionally, I'd argue they were boys. Abuse victims often have arrested development and they were boys when the abuse started. Eric was still being raped and brutalized by his father. Since he was an adult, I don't think words like molested or abused apply. Rape and physical assault are more appropriate. Symantics aside, if 2 young women with the kind of history of physical, psychological, and sexual abuse starting in childhood and continuing into adulthood that these boys experienced, were on trial, the 1st hung jury would have been the end of it. Feminists would have championed them, books and movie deals would have followed. Women would not have been doubted. Boys/men who are sexually abused are treated differently. Especially back then, even still now.
I agree. It is heartbreaking to know how much they suffered during their formative years. You cannot come out of that unscathed. It is just pure horror. If it was young women, there is a strong likelihood they would have gotten off. Double standard. These men suffered extreme abuse. Turns my stomach.
Boys (and men for that matter) are also more reluctant to come forward about their abuse. It makes it even more horrible to think how many cases are not even reported because of that. I think it's getting better though.
@@lile8602 Well stated!
I was afraid to watch this as I just finished the documentary (not the docudrama) and I believe them. I don’t think they killed their parents strictly for revenge. They said they had fear, their father threatened them & they were young, 18 and 21. Also Jose had told Eric he was not allowed to go away to college. Lyle wanted to stop his younger brother’s abuse.
Eric could go to college but Jose wouldn't allow him to live in a dorm he still had to live at home and later work and stay close to his dad
People just didn't want to hear about boys being raped by their own father, and they blamed these guys for talking about it. Watch the whole trial and listen to the way the judge e.g. talks to them - total contempt verging on anger and hatred. You were boys! Why didn't you just punch him off? That actually seems to be the attitude. Meanwhile they were 6 when the dad started assaulting them. Personally I don't blame them for killing their rapists - and I do include the sadistically complicit mom in that - just to make it end. Hell, just as revenge. But I can also believe they legitimately feared for their lives.
Agree!
My filthy pedophile dad did this as well. Apart from the daily abuse and constant humiliation, they try to drown you under the pretense of teaching you how to swim. He took away my sandals and I was forced to walk on burning hot pavement which left me with scars on my feet. If I told you everything he did you would not believe me. I still have nightmares about him to this day and I'm in my 60's now.
I'm so sorry that happened to you ❤😢
Day dreaming
I’m so sorry your father did this to you. I am so sorry that you didn’t have someone to take you out of the situation. Regardless of what happened, you sound like a fighter. I hope you have people supporting you and embracing you with love and peace.
@@mufasasdaughter4831wtf bro? Seek help
I'm so sorry 😢 (((hugs)))
At the beginning of the 911 call, the dispatcher asks Lyle "are the shooters still in the house?" Lyle says "yes" and quickly changes to "no."
@@4Mr.Crowley2 no he was in state of shock lol its pretty obvious when you listen to it back, he was hysterical
"People who were abused as children are powerful observers." That's right! That's the only way we could survive. Love this channel, thanks guys.
Yeah you develop hypervigilance
@@jilliandiperna and skilled manipulators, which is not a negative word, especially when used to survive!
@@jennibarnes140 100% agree that manipulation can be survival!!
I feel so bad for those two brothers, they never stood a chance. Their parents destroyed them with abuse.
It seems like so many prisoners need therapy and rehab. Not prison.
It makes me so sad that they ended up in prison 🥲 . They have had no life !
I wasn't on their side 35 years ago. Now, it's hard to not have empathy for the brothers. Especially after hearing that their father was also a predator in the Menudo child s.a. scandal.
I'm sorry about the loss of your dog Scott.
Thank you. I miss Albert all day, every day. 🙁
@@TheBehaviorPanel 😞 Sad on your behalf. My "Fardo" died 37 years ago and he is still a big part of my mental furniture (which he is not allowed to be on, btw).
@@TheBehaviorPanel im sorry for your loss. 🌹
Rest in powerful peace Albert 🙏
@@TheBehaviorPanel 😔😔🤍🤍🤍
I don't think anyone should assume the abuse was past tense. It could very well have been ongoing right up until the murder.
It went on until a few months (May) before the killing (August)
@@elliotmaxwell8402the full rape was last in May 1989 but he said that there was still molestation up to near august if not within the weeks before.
I’m so sorry about your dog Scott. I know this is old video but losing a pet, the pain never goes away. Sending love
These poor guys never had a chance in life and I presume the majority of viewers will never understand what a mix of fear and shame creates. They were failed by their parents, coaches, teachers and eventually the judicial system.
Hello, Again, Gentlemen!
Thank you for doing this video. I asked for this one in the comments of the R Kelly video. You guys are awesome! 😃
Yay!
I can't see justice by these men bring imprisoned for being molested and abused their entire lives. worst crime trial I've ever seen. So sad for them
Life is so unfair. These men suffered enough. I pray that they will be free soon.
The other video of what they went through is unimaginable that parents could do this & make them act like they are proper. Family's used to keep all the downfalls secret because no one wanted the neighbors to know God forbid. I pray they get another trial 🙏🏻 ✝️
Scott, it seems true that they were trained not to show emotions. The brothers mention several times that their parents didn't like them to show emotions.
I think many of us who grew up during a particular time had parents who fit into this category. Lot different today.
Kids who had parents who were emotionally abusive hate it when a child displays anything but positive emotions
I'm totally with Chase. When you're in an abusive household, you are groomed and softening language is the way the horror is swept under the rug and "normalized". So, so sad. These boys grew up with horror. They "snapped". The spending a lot is not so weird to me, either- they lived in 90210, maybe that was a type of psychological revenge. A shout of "freedom".
It's unbelievable how many times the attorney said "when your father had sex with you" or "when the rough sex occured" And never "when your father RAPED you" or "when the RAPE occured" - I guarantee this made a huge difference within the jury. The way you talk about it matters.
Apparently the judge said they weren't allowed to say the word Rape. They were absolutely set up, and the judge was corrupt as they came!!
yes, and not like he's a defense attorney for the father- since he is deceased...😢 Despicable
Jose worked with P Diddys mentor Clive Davis. This is all a huge set up and a mess
@@Leonforever5 totally despicable!
Personally, I wish they would get put on close parole but released from prison, let them live happily for once in their lives before they die.
***HannSoloTX*** I appreciate the way you present this. I agree with you!
They killed their parents. Why didn't they seek help or left the house? If they knew it was wrong? Why didn't they call the cops? You can't just kill people. It's basics.There were many solutions avaiable for them and they chose the worst.
@@soberanobrasil9370 you can't abuse your children and call yourself a parent, karma will come calling
These men are not guys that will be a harm to society. They were terribly abused, and yes they did a very bad thing but they would not go on a killing rampage if let free. In my opinion, the father deserved to die. Maybe not so at the hand of the boys but who else would have done it? If there truly is a Hell, I hope he is down there! A heartbreaking story .
@@zovalentine7305 Agree. But we have to obey society's rules. It is up to the Judiciary to decide about such parents. Otherwise it would be all a mess and even worst things would happen. But I believe in God and I believe that this kind of people have a very special place to them so that they can learn. And we as a society knowing that such things exist must make avaiable to young and older people help so that the bad guys have their time in prison and don't harm anyone else. And the victims can begin a treatment. Killing the abuser is a no solution. Thousands of years ago it was the answer. Today it isn't. 🌷🙏🌷
I can’t believe in 2024 there’s still so many outdated assumptions and theories about these brothers in the comments. The money argument is completely ridiculous when they already had access to their parents funds - they’d bought Lyle a condo and were paying for his college already! It was purely that they finally confronted their father about the abuse and things snowballed out of hand due to their fathers threats to kill them over the years, and the panic that he might make good on those threats so they felt they had to do it first.
THIS!!!!
It WAS self-defense! Their last chance for self-preservation!
I think they probably were molested, but I don't believe this as a self defense case. Their claim in thay respect isnt believable to me. They were adults and could have left at any time. They bought the shot guns two days in advance, planned it, murdered their parents, removed evidence & lied about it. They ran out of shells, only to go back for more to finish off their mother, whom I'm skeptical of having done anything other than possibly being a bad parent. I think they wanted the money and revenge on their father, so mom had to go as well.
You nailed it with the “panic” idea. They were totally panicked - probably couldn’t sleep or think straight.
@mwheeler138 just because you say so. Smh.
@ 20:18 Chase, you addressed distorted thinking. So many survivors of abuse have to fight this everyday.
Mark, on your point of softening abuse is very true, they also referred to RAPE as sex which was so wrong , their up bringing was so sad and traumatic 💔
Ive developed a serious crush on all four of you handsome men! Thanks for doing this channel! It’s excellent!!
Scott is my favorite. Probably because he’s handsomer than Chase and could probably beat up Greg too. And his nose is normal sized.
@@TheBehaviorPanel Still my favourite as well, Scott, but there’s 3 Very Close runners up! 😁
@@TheBehaviorPanel 🤣. You’re all lovable in your own ways. Appreciate all of you!!
@@TheBehaviorPanel You have to stop saying that, your nose is 100% normal. I'm half italian and half lebanese, so you can trust me on this! And Chase looks orange. I really like the guy, learn a lot from him, but he is orange. I'm really sorry about your dog btw 🙏
Orange is my favorite color❣️
Oh you guys really pay attention to the comments! You spoil us! 🤩🥺
I remember watching as a little girl and feeling like they were being honest about the abuse. Tragic case. Thanks for your analysis!!
They where abused ?? For real ?Not just claiming it to get away with it moore. Cause then i can maybe a bit understand why things went south.I dont know this case at all to be honest.
@@sashasash9940 yes, they were actually abused. From the time they were quite young, and horribly.
@@crowmedicine3890 At the time of that trial, none of that was believed. Lots of people believed back them they were fabricating that story to gain sympathy. Fast forward to today and it’s all being challenged.
@@kelseymariel2127 yes, you're right. I remember when this case happened. Everyone thought they were two evil guys just wanting to spend mom and dad's money.
@@crowmedicine3890 I think it’s a complex case. Lots of abuse and entitlement. They were already into petty crime and robbery.
There is so much to unpack with this situation. The prosecuting attorneys were absolutely despicable human beings. They victimized the brothers all over again. Yes. They killed their parents. They have both said openly that they were sorry the second it happened and wished they could take it back. They endured years of rape and torture at the hands of their father. Their mother bore witness to the torture and betrayal and ignored it. She blamed her sons. Family members witnessed the extreme physical abuse that took place when the boys were barely out of toddlerhood. Those boys loved their dad in the twisted way an abused child frames their entire lives. The desire for love and approval from their same sex parent was twisted and manipulated into the powder keg that would eventually explode. It is painful to watch Lyle and Erik testify. The anguish is palpable. The shame so heavy they can barely form the words. The fear and pain and rage and betrayal is always swirling around their words. They are deeply humiliated to be airing their family’s deepest darkest secrets. They are conflicted in their desire to preserve their father’s legacy. They have been punished and punished in so many ways for far too long. Their 20 year separation was just a flex from the utterly corrupt and incompetent district attorneys office. The second trial was manipulated by the district attorney to create a guilty verdict as the only possible outcome. They have more than paid their debt to society. They have been model prisoners. They have worked to better the lives of those around them.
Let them out. Now. It’s time.
I agree.
a lot to read through, but Yes !🎉
The 2nd trial was a miscarriage of justice ⚖ all the sexual, mental and emotional 😢😪😭 abuse was not allowed 🚫😢 to be heard in 2nd trial
At the dinner table....age 11....when Eric said “He would just look at her” , the memory of that, his eye movement looking up and tone of voice indicate, to me, that in his father’s look at his wife was an attitude/tone of “don’t you dare say a word” ! Facial/eye movement , intake of breath, indicates that he feels anger and strong disgust of his father. How these children suffered in horror. It is inconceivable.
I know of someone who has seen “that look”. That look from his father, evokes extreme fear and she shuts down ....it is a strong , evil, psychological punch to the gut!
* Extreme pain and shame when Lyle talks about his father’s abuse.
Were these guys sentenced as they were , because no one knows/knew what else to do with them?
they purposely set up the second trial for their first degree murder conviction. they did not allow testimonies of the sexual abuse and the defense was extremely limited. the judge also basically got rid of the “imperfect defense” the defense argued in the first trial so the jury only had murder options. extremely sad and miscarriage of justice.
50 years later I still sometimes duck or flinch if someone raises their hand real fast when they're close enough to hit me.
Expressions are so interesting, regarding that "look at his wife" at the dinner table. My own Dad could freeze us kids with "The Look"--but neither of my parents were abusive. It was simply a no-nonsense look that said "No, and that's my final answer." or "Don't talk back, period." Many years later after he retired, my Dad worked part time as a bus driver for our state-run residential school for deaf and hard of hearing children. He was too old by then to effectively learn American Sign Language. When the kids started getting rowdy on his bus, he only needed to look into the rear-view mirror and give them "The Look" and they settled down. He never punished them and rarely even turned in to the school for bad behavior. "The Look" was enough; he was strict, but also very fair. It is amazing how much can be communicated with only a look. I do feel sad for the Menendez brothers, I can see their father giving that signal not to interfere.
Most of us at some point seen "the look"
I don't think revenge was the motive - I think they wanted to put an end to it, which is quite different. It can still be premeditated but the emotion behind it is different.
I recommend watching the mini series Erik Menendez did called "Erik tells all", he explains a lot of things that were said in the court or portraited in the media (those, most of them totally false).
They may have had somewhat different motives for killing their father and their mother. I wish they were asked separate questions rather than "did you kill your father because of this and you mother because of that?".
@@doublehelix2609
And that's okay if you have such screwed brain!! So premeditated murder becomes okay!??
No - not revenge. No - they weren't scared either!! The motive was GREED - AND CRIMINAL BRAINS!! Do you think they're locked-up for nothing!!???
@@coronatyrus2391 I'm always so shocked at how can people be so damn ignorant! This is utterly disgusting! How could you all totally ignore sooooo many corroborating witnesses and evidences?? Lord 🤦♀️
I’ve watched many of their analyses. Always enlightening. Love that Chase gives us a tour of his house, either that or of his travels. His backgrounds vary so much.✨
When Lyle was 16-17 years old, he started losing his hair out of stress,
and by the time he went to college, he was totally bald on the top of his head.
poor guy has had to wear a hairpiece since before he graduated High School.
How humiliating!
Pops was a douche
Horrific how their sexual abuse was dragged out of them in court.😊
At the time of the trial I thought they were evil, spoilt kids. Now I see them as victims who couldn’t take the life long abuse anymore. Tortured by the father and a mother who let it happen.
Yes- the media really painted them as privileged and evil kids. This video is an eye-opener.
Agree, my opinion on them has shifted.
They are evil. It’s not unusual for victims to turn into perpetrators. Hopefully they never get out.
@Norma Jean Vandever Sociopathic murderers deserve to be unleashed on society as long as they were victims.
@Norma Jean Vandever stop bringing up the will, that theory got debunked in court
It’s a an absolute crime that the 2 of them are in prison.
I agree! They were abused with no help! They snapped. 😢
Amazing that you guys said this two years ago and now with the Menudo documentary, it has come out that the Menendezes's father also raped one or some of the band members... so now the Menendez brothers are going to try to appeal again. I hope they get a shot at being free.
I do too. I feel bad bc I misjudged these guys back in the day. Now that I am a mental health counselor and I see so much trauma, I'm so ashamed of myself.