P&S ModCast 292 - The Applicability of Small Caliber Pistols
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Primary & Secondary ModCast
The panel discusses the applications of small caliber pistols.
Host: Matt Landfair
Panel:
Darryl Bolke
Rhett Neumayer
Nate Osborne
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I will listen to this podcast multiple times like the snubbies podcast. My 2 favorite so far, full of outstanding info for real world guys.
I watched the snubby vid all the way at least a dozen times ..exspecially when db does show n tell with his firearm collection
Same here
I have been a ccw holder for 35 years and have carried manny guns at least a year and im 74 now and the sw 43c and the sw 351 pd is my go to guns now I can not take the weight on my hips anymore the fed punch ammo in 22lr and 22mag has changed my life for the better I also have 2 ruger lcps that have made it into my pocket rotation now they were problem children at first but ruger finely fixed mine after a couple of trips back to them .Im not going to save the world with these guns just my family and myself if it comes down to no other way out . Im so happy that you guys are the voice of reason out there surrounded by tactical ninjas
I really enjoy these videos you do for normal people as you would say. Rhett is a great addition to your lineup. He is doing some interesting stuff over on his youtube channel that I would encourage folks to check out.
I've been shooting pistols for almost 50 years. Been carrying for about 40. Not a cop, but I've met some scary people through the years. I'm over 70 with significant arthritis in my hands. Subcompact 9s are great but getting harder to run fast. I have a couple of LCRs a 9 and a 22. Love the 22. Gonna seriously practice with that thing.
This was a seriously awesome conversation. Great things to think about. Great to see some practical examples of how to carry snubs as well. I will be rewatching this one.
I really enjoyed having the discussion.
Another small gun that has really surprised me is the Kel-Tec p32 (overall I can’t say I’m a Kel-Tec fan). They really did nail it with this model as a great backup/non permissive gun and the fact that so many people can swear by its reliability over the last 20 plus yrs that it’s been produced. I agree a 32acp LCP Max would be the bees 🐝 knees!!! Everybody stay safe and be BLESSED!!!
Have you considered Buffalo Bore hardcast 75gr in .32?
That's maybe the ultimate load.
You can find it for about $25.78/20. Which may be the lower cost for that.
Gives you 220 ft lbs of energy. The higher I've seen.
A buddy of mine is super into the idea of a .22lr revolver with Federal Punch to carry. I'm thinking about a similar idea of a Summer carry with a Glock 42. I just moved from the middle-of-nowhere New Mexico to a beach on the East Coast so my attire has changed a lot! Awesome stuff P&S!
Friends don't let friends carry 22LR.
I had a Makarov first. Loved it more than I thought I would. Heard about the CZ82 thought I would love it even more! Had the same initial reaction you did Matt. I've warmed up to it though.
I just bought a 1908 Pocket Hammerless, and I enjoy the hell out of it!
Saw that US Armament was making an updated 1908 PH and was going to release them soon.
I love my little 1908 "Vest pocket" in .25 literally fits in the palm of your hand.
Imagine if Ruger made one of those in polymer and .32 acp.
@@robertpatter5509 why?
Great discussion. I have gone back to a 5 shot 38 that can go from pants or coat pocket to AIWB which is what I started with in 1994. I can wrestle with my grandkids with an airweight in a Phlster city special without worrying about losing the gun or being uncomfortable. It is a system for my real-life day to day.
Realizing this is a nearly year old podcast, I still wanted to comment.
My carry guns vary with circumstances. However, my most common carry is a .38 Special Charter Arms Undercover. In a customized minimalist IWB Kydex rig AND a Beretta 2032 Tomcat in a pocket rig. Both are loaded with Underwood Xtreme Defender ammo. I carry a reload for each.
I'm 71 years old. I learned to shoot with a S&W Model 10 when I was 11 years old. I own roughly 40 handguns. .22, .32 ACP, .380 ACP, .38 Special. .357, 9mm, .40 S&W, .44 Special and .45 ACP. From micro compacts to 14+1 .45 ACP.
So, why do I carry a snubby .38 and a .32 auto? Easy to shoot, fast to draw, adequate giddy-up and reliability. Add to that, I live in Florida where shorts and golf shirts are typical daily wear.
My wife's pistols are primarily an 8 shot, snubby Charter Arms Pathfinder in .22LR. Or, a Beretta 21A Bobcat. Both loaded with Federal Punch. I trained her to point (instinctive) shoot at very close range. Single hand grip. Not using sights. She has gotten pretty good at that. Two-handed grip at greater distance.
Little guns can get the job done. What is the " job"? To break contact with attacker(s). There is no other purpose. Stop or discourage assailants and get the hell out of there.
Even being a year old - your input still adds to the episode's value.
I really appreciate these small gun discussions. As someone who's on the smaller side, 5' 8", the idea of carrying something like a Roland Special was always out of the question for me. Also, living in MA even though I have a LTC i could lose it if someone sees it calls the cops. Most of the year I can get away with appendix carrying a 9mm Shield but I want to get something like an LCR to wear in the summer. Only time I have gotten away with a full-size gun is in the winter but I still didnt feel very comfortable with it.
In the process of shopping for a duty BUG. This is pure gold knowledge transfer. Thank you!
This was an eye opening discussion and in great detail about all aspects. Thanks for sharing and illustrating this great perspective
Great talk guys! I shoot on the Clark’s range pretty regularly…. I got money I know who DB was talking about carrying all the j frames.lol. Can’t wait for the shoulder holster episode !
Regarding the dry fire grip comment I absolutely experienced this 4 days ago. I recently started doing dry fire very frequently. Went to the range with the carry pistol (a very compact 9mm) and realized my grip was not acceptable for follow-up shots, first round accuracy was great but follow-ups, especially rapid shots were not on target. Interesting learning moment.
I worked for almost 20 years in said environment. Sometimes in the field & people's houses.
Easist to conceal was my J-frames. And then my Kahr CT380! And I made it those 18+ years without being made.
I always carry my Beretta 21a in a pocket when my jeans go on in the morning. Even when I carry a larger gun in a waist band holster. I see so many people get ridiculed for carrying a 22 for self defense and I think of it this way. You can take the biggest tough guy in the world and if God forbid you need to defend yourself with a .22, I feel that a mag or cylinder of CCI mini mags to the face will either make him break contact with you or You will be able to beat the snot out of him if he doesn’t.
Beretta needs to copy Ruger in terms of magazine design. The Ruger LCP II .22 magazine is a bit better design.
I don't like the open sides of the 21A magazine.
I'm 72 I have severe arthritis in my hands. It's difficult to grasp pistols tightly because of pain and swelling. I love my small 9s but I have a 22 LCR I shoot really well. Everyone else says stay with the 9s but in a close, entangled encounter revolvers are superior which most people don't understand. Just ordered a City Special for the LCR will begin dry firing and shooting that lots more. If I get confident with that then I'll work it in.
Thank you for the enlightenment gentlemen.
Greg from LionQuest Fitness always talks about a revolver being “jury friendly”, and this podcast reinforces that idea. I carry various sized revolvers, but always have a J frame in my pocket.
I took the Claude warner challenge on accident I guess...I worked at autozone for two years and carried a Glock 23 with a TLR1 in a holster with DCC clips so I could still tuck the shirt in. I guess it doesn't count, because my manager knew damn well I was packing and didn't care, and in Alaska no customer would complain even if I was made.
An internal or shrouded hammered 2" revolver is the most difficult handgun to disarm someone of due to the user having the leverage, additionally the most reliable in "real life" CQB situations. Going on 40 years as a LEO and trainer. Off duty I normally wear athletic clothing and my typical CCW guns are two revolvers: S&W 638 - Win 148 Wadcutters or LCR .327 - .32 S&W Long BB WC - IWB / NAA 22 Mag - pocket.
And great for concealment
I have some CCI SGB stands for Small Game Bullet. It's a 40 gr lead flat nose rated at 1235. I haven't shot much of it. Haven't chronoed it. But shoots well in LCR and should penetrate well.
Thanks very much for this video!! As a senior I am moving toward smaller calibers and I agree with everything you guys are saying. Its refreshing to see experienced experts reach out to us civilians and share your knowledge and suggestions!
God bless you all!
I'm 5'6" and a j-frame aiwb is basically all I can carry. I'll still stick with my 340PD with 38 specials for carry, but I did buy a 43c as a trainer. It has been amazing for improving my shooting and has paid for itself in under a year.
However, mine has a lot of light strikes. It likes CCI SV, but not much else. Everything shoots low as well (2" with most ammo at 10 yards, 1" with SV), and the grip angle is ever so slightly nose higher than my 340PD, so replacing the front and grinding it shorter for correct POA/POI is just going to make the grip angle even more different; I'd rather aim higher and have an identical sight as my 340PD. Some of the cheap ammo even binds up the cylinder/trigger pull afterwards; it seems to be rubbing the case head after firing. I have yet to try Punch or Velocitors though, since I was mainly hunting a cheap ammo with acceptable accuracy. Accuracy with the SV is 2" at 10 yards, other ammo is worse; idk if I've found SV's limit in my gun, or if the limits of my abilities are just 2" at 10 yards (likely, given the little bit of 35/357 I shot this spring).
I too have noticed the magical ability to still shoot a j-frame well despite a junk grip. I haven't seen anyone else talking about this though until now.
It’s funny Darryl said, “We’re not all trying to retake the plane” when several top tier operators of Israel in the 1970’s retook a terrorist controlled plane armed with Beretta 71’s in .22lr.
Excellent episode!
still trying to figure out how Rhett draws so fast and efficiently from deep conceal...
You can put a lot of 22LR ammo in a standard RX pill bottle. Those can be transparent or not.
I think this really sold me on the 22 revolver. I'd love to try magnum, but that costs real ammo money in today's market and I already have LR stacked up. I loved carrying a 642 but absolutely hated the recoil no matter how I gripped or what rubber monstrosity of a grip I swapped onto it. Trying a 38 LCR was even worse. 43C here I come...
I went the Ruger LCR route for 22 revolver and it has been outstanding.
@@PrimaryAndSecondary one of my local shops has a 22 LCRX used for a fair price, I may just get that on a lark.
@@tangero3462 I went hammerless just for easier pocket carry
Don't underestimate the value of situational awareness and physical fitness. The comment on the 365 trigger was worth the price of admission. I greatly prefer a long trigger pull for my edc.
Welp, great, now I have to buy more guns. Thoughts on just using 9mm fmj? It's cost effective and very soft shooting compared to even standard pressure 124 HST's. Is the juice worth the squeeze?
also Darrel said he takes a shot gun with a shockwave grip with him in all 50 states can you give me some advice on how that could be ok in Calif thanks
I appreciate the discussions about non-conventional disucssions. Some of the recommendations or ideas may not be a good fit for my situation, but I loved the discussions. It makes us think. So much of the gun community is anti-thinking in a cult like manner, so people that come up with new ideas with reasons are treated harshly. We have all made the mistake of turning down a new good idea, because it was different. That is why the true professionals have an open mind ...but ask for reasons.
My non-permissive carry is an LCPII with specially modified RH pants pockets. Am I playing pocket pinball or getting a firing grip? (pun not intended) It was a Llama IIIA with the hammer down (for ND safety), beginning in the mid-80's.
My Police Chief was drunk in uniform at a local bar during the day, and she left her Glock on the toilet tank in the restroom. She was not arrested, but a normal citizen would be arrested. Don't worry, our Police Chief is good at drunk driving, so she made it home safe. That is one reason why I am always sober and take carrying a gun seriously. Sometimes the only thing I can do is mock those that are irresponsible with guns. That works well to teach others about the importance of being responsible in concealed carry class.
I know too many people that carry and drink while armed... it's annoying, stupid, and potentially unsafe.
@mattr918 I completely agree with you. If I am carrying (or just respect the 2A), I am not drinking (to excess) or misbehaving. I don't drink at all, but that is a personal choice.
Our alcoholic Police Chief that lost her gun while drunk at the bar is also anti-gun, shocker! She cried when concealed carry was passed into law. She lacks any intelligence, but she is a puppet for whatever the Mayor wants.
My Mom's 2nd husband was a Chicagoland Deputy that primarily worked EP for corporate executives and organized crime members. He carried a P7M8 in a pocket. This was before the new polymer wondernines were present. He shot and ended the life of the robber that broke my Mom's jaw to steal her Rolex. The criminal never saw it coming, because this was decades before Illinois allowed concealed carry.
The Chicago stories of prosecuting good people with guns are 10+ years out of date. Those stories were true but are no longer true. Even back then a good Fixer was all that was needed to purchase favorable justice. My neighbor was a fixer attorney that escaped all prosecution. My friend "Steve" used a not-allowed handgun in Chicagol to end the lives of two home invaders. He was charged with a not legal handgun and discharging inside city limits. $8k to the judge, and everything went away. Cook County has the best judicial system that money can buy. All they want is the money.
Did you just casually tell a story about someone bribing an American judge in? I thought that sort of shit could happen in Russia, not America.
@@smolkafilip In places like Chicago. .
Corruption is rampant.
Why doesn't a manufacturer make a double firing pin model, like the old Henry rimfire? Coupled with quality ammo this should nearly eliminate reliability issues.
I've been thirsting after a .22 snubby for a long while
I've been looking for an lcr in 22 for a bit. Gunbroker calls my name.
@@PrimaryAndSecondary why do they need to be so expensive
@@DarkMatter946 I suspect supply and demand
@@PrimaryAndSecondary agreed. And I have a strong feeling it's going to get worse before it gets better.
@@DarkMatter946 the 43C is a higher end j-frame model, which probably leads to the increased cost
LCR in 22lr or LCP max? Which one do you get?
The lcr22 has run THOUSANDS of rounds without failure for me. The LCP Max failed more than a dozen times in my first 500 rounds.
The lcr22 has no recoil
The LCPmax is snappier than my g22
While a great discussion I can’t understand why you’d carry a 43C when you can carry a 340PD chambered with the 38 special BB FBI load. It’s a proven round, very effective at one shot stops. 22LR not so much. Also, carrying 5 J frames on you is next level special…
Super interesting.
Which shooting is Rhett referring to?
I'm really curious what the velocity differences are between the LCP 22lr and the LCR 22lr. Anybody have an idea?
does anyone have a solid way to carry a beretta 21a or tomcat? Their short nose makes holster selection challenging.
I have found they aren't horrible in the pocket with a holster
I carry mine in a front or back pocket in a pocket holster.
You can look at many hunting and farming videos. 22lr has dropped 4lb animals to 2,000lbs animals instantly with headshots
Cz 82 is 9x18 Makarov, NOT 7.62 Makarov. 😑
One way or another I am going home. To my family on Earth so be it. To God in Heaven, so be it. If, is the second; I will make enough noise that the Angel of death will have no trouble finding me and my enemy.
Perception Management
Many people perceive the color pink as a girl's color. This is false. It's not a girl's color ,but a man's color. A specific type of man.
Why?
White represents Intelligence, Wisdom, Education, Knowledge, Military Tactics, Strategy. Athena.
Red represents Martial Prowess, Ambition, and Combat. Mars
If you combine them you get pink. Marcus Aurelius.
Blue is a girl's color because of the sky and fertility. Venus.
How can you use this to your advantage?
I like color coding pistols.
In the future I will cerakote all pistols in .380 with a pink frame and white slide.
For .22lr it's a blue frame and white slide.
Most people think pink is for women. Now you can shape the perception of others. Even though it's literally false.
They look cute don't they?
Good.
You know who else thinks it's cute?
School teachers who serve on juries.
You won't be judged by a jury of your peers. That's in a military trial for military members only.
The same principle applies to rifles.
A wood stock or camouflage patterns says something over just a black rifle.
Same for the fanny pack.
It does look a bit touristy,but use that to your advantage.
You can even apply this to clothing.
I've been wearing Retro Rifle shirts.
Palm Trees, Flamingos, Flowers etc .
All these elements are ways to Perception Management.
People DO judge by the cover. Even though they say they don't.
You can try to fight human nature and eventually you'll lose.
So the next time people make fun of you for looking goofy. Just keep in mind it's better to look goofy than to be in prison.
Every advantage counts.
-Pink,blue,purple and white frames
- Hawaiian, wool,color patterns, flowers, trees on shirts
- Fanny Pack
- A Ruger LCP II in .22lr or .380
- Hiking clothes
- Camping equipment
- Hunting stuff
It all can be an advantage if used correctly.
How about some options.
-Beretta 21A .22
- Beretta 950 Jetfire .25
-Beretta Tomcat .32
- Keltec P-32/P3AT
- NAA Guardian .32
- Ruger LCP II Max .380
- Ruger LCP II .22
- Ruger LCP/II .380
- 2" J Frame revolve
- S&W Bodyguard 380
- Taurus Spectrum/TCP
My criteria is
- 16oz or less loaded
- .38 spcl or less
- Pocket or Ankle carry. Best if they can do both.
- Flush fit magazine(Semiautomatic)
- Barrel 3.5" or less
Buffalo Bore hardcast 75gr .32 acp is a good load.