To be honest, they aren't even the best at that - Arcane casters can teleport, Druids can Wildshape into flying fast creatures, Paladins can likely steed away, Monks can use Ki... only really Clerics, Rangers, and Fighters are not as good as Rogues at fleeing. Yeah, the whole 'take out targets before they get a turn' thing is just not mechanically represented by Rogues, unless you are facing low level guards or something. The DPR of a Rogue is very low, and also subject to being unreliable. There isn't really any reason a party of most any other class would not be able to do the same thing. Even stealth for surprise isn't a good argument: Rogues can get expertise in stealth, but most other characters can quite easily pass the passive Wisdom (Perception) checks of enemies if they try - the real challenge with stealth is staying out of line of sight and mechanically Rogues do not get a benefit to this (in fact, casters do this better from ritual familiar scouting to Darkness, etc.). Then you have the whole squishness, lack of battlefield control, lack of aoe, lack of condition inflicting, etc. For this reason, I don't agree with the B ratiing - even the fun aspect is player-brought; there is nothing stopping a party of most any other four classes doing this (eh, maybe Clerics might have difficulty). They really are C rating that you can make fun with the exact right campaign, a very complicit DM, and the players going all in on a specific playstyle and hoping the dice isn't against them (from skill checks before reliable talent, to attack rolls, to damage rolls, to saving throws, etc.). 5e is pretty random with the d20 far outstripping most flat modifiers.
@@RJWhitmore I disagree. Wizards and sorcerers have magic yes, but they are normally only able to take themselves unless they are high level. Druids can run fast, for quite a while but again it only applies to themself. Same with paladins. An entire party of rogues can stay together as they run, and usually outpace most enemies. Plus if they can break line of sight, they can hide. Even if caught up with, their disengage ability can help them keep from being locked into combat.
I have a team of all rogues and a wizard who thinks they are all talking about the weather when talking in thieves can't, and dubbed them "The Weathermen".
Imagine this: You are a powerful Lich whose plans keep being foiled by some stealthy organization. To increase your security, you have a pair of powerful undead minions to protect you. Suddenly both undead have been slain and you yourself are nearly killed off. You hear a complaint that they messed up. In a panic you cast your most powerful area of effect spell on the enemy that appeared before you: meteor swarm. As the smoke clears, you see three of the four assailants standing unharmed in the middle of the rubble. Unseen by you, the fourth lands a killing blow.
Imagine this: but with the CoS they did not go there to save every one or kill the man him self!! no they are there simply to brake in to his vault and empty out and brake out of there! that is it! the go in to death house not to save the children but to robe it! and every thing they do! just winds up helping out the people while stumping are man Strahd like just when he think he has thies hero's on the rope there gone! when he think there going to one place they hit another! and when he prepping to face them in castle! for some epic show down! they just aren't there! as some one informs his his vault is empty!?.... when he final catch up to at the border trough the mist step a group of people who been looking for them as well! to arrest them!? what then the shove the blade and the rave crest in the main guys hands! who some sort of paladin and point at the vampire's & Strahd! who ever the allied with destroy Strahd's tower crystal! right as the fight happens! one kills his mount! to piss him off during the fight wit the new guy! and they the have sliped way! from the the men who came to arrest them and Strahd!
Most beautiful thing about this is that with 4 different rogues, you'll be seeing expertises in the Weird Skills for once. Sure everyone is picking Stealth Expertise (unless your Wood Elf took Wood elf Magic) but you only really need one-or-two pickpockets.
My own half-elf rogue in a campaign is a Scout with expertise in athletics acrobatics stealth and perception. He was raised and trained to be a sniper (soldier) and he also is really good at climbing and grappling. Rolled good stats so that at level 11 he has 16 str, 20 dex, 16 con, 11 int, 12 wis and 13 cha. He is the only party member who doesn't use magic at all nor does he understand how it works
@@nathanfivecoate5848I got to briefly play a rogue like that, human variant with the athlete feat, had 16 STR and 18 DEX, took assassin at lvl 3. He'd climb trees or buildings to shoot from above and avoid getting hit.
@@nathanfivecoate5848 I was making a Ranger (Hunter) Rogue (Scout) for a game and found it to be a very interesting combination. Which I think makes an interesting perspective on the Rogue, as the scout isn't necessarily a thief and has expertise in more unique stat options.
That’s what I was thinking too. The Mastermind can go, you need to find other ways of getting sneak attack. In fact you could go “uh oh all Kobolds” and probably always have advantage. The Thief is doing so much more here.
@@shawnheckert3725 Or Arcane Trickster with Gift of the Metallic Dragon works, too. You can still have your Thief grab the Healer feat as a backup, or your Mastermind and/or Swashbuckler can take Magic Initiate to get a single cast of healing word per long rest (cleric/druid for Mastermind, bard for Swashbuckler).
Thief rouge support does so much work here. If you nab healer and chef to heal people and make full use of scaling, movement and the other off the wall magic items. This way of playing rewards the more creative player and getting someone back up when they get knocked out is such a value machine.
The funny thing about heavy armor (and some medium armor) is that it provides disadvantage in stealth, but once rogues get Reliable Talent, disadvantage means very little. So if you can start with medium armor proficiency (gith or dwarf), you can have an 18 AC with stealth checks still being 25 minimum.
a rogue taking Medium armor Proficiency then Medium Armor Master lets them be one of the tankiest monsters in the game which is why I love doing such a build on a swashbuckler rogue, cause they want to be in melee so often
@eskimoquinn1 I like MAM, but it's not worth it Best you can do is half plate (15) +3, but if youre planning on capping dex anyway, studded leather is 12+dex (17), so a feat for +1 AC, you could take Defense. It would work just as well as MAM and have cheaper armor. I only mentioned the heavy armor thing bc I thought it was funny
Don't forget shields (+2 AC ) and magic armor with additional bonuses. Add a feat or two to help and boom, my arcane trickster has a 22 AC atm. (Can use shields bc I also bought a casting focus on a necklace.)
@@crownlexicon5225 You forget its a two feat investment and you get proficiency in shields so without magic armor its a total AC of 20 and since bounded accuracy is a thing having 3 extra ac means you are not having to waiste your Uncanny Dodge 15% more often and if you started off as variant Human or Custom Origin you can have both by level 5 when Uncanny Dodge comes on line but the real waste of feats would be also grabbing Tavern Brawler then Dual Wielder so your shield classifies as a weapon so you end up with 21 AC and finally take Defencive Duelist so instead of using Uncanny dodge you bump up your ac to 27 if the attack wasn't a crit, Bwahahahahaha
That is one of the two installments of this series I was waiting for. It's early in China and I'm listening happily to 2 Canadian dudes who explain to me the hobby I started with in the late 80s in Germany. Perfect start of my day.
I cannot wait until you guys get to the all Artificer "Mad Science" party, just because of how well they could play off of each other. They all fill very common roles and would make for a particularly solid team. Also, just having a party of mad scientist solving their problems with the power of **SCIENCE** is just amazing. I wanted to run an all-Artificer party once (but nobody wanted to =/)
I’ve sketched out a party like this,(based on the Dudes series of videos) and it’s really really cool how much an artificer party supports and props up each other. I think it would be a blast.
Personally, I think this party doesn't really work unless you have a Thief Rogue with the Healer feat. Having a reliable way to bring up downed allies is essential for preventing a TPK for a martial heavy group and Thief Rogue does it beautifully, including through their ability to cast spell scrolls.
@@darkestlight660It isn't good, but you do need some way to bounce up an ally who is making death saves in a tough fight. I think you could totally do that just with healing potions, but some DMs are very stingy with those. Probably good idea to talk about it at session zero with the DM.
Thanks dudes! You guys are killing it! Jeez, maybe a D&D vacation is in order? Dudes, Colbs and Tmonk in the Caribbean playing a series of 1 shots on the beach with a different dm each game? Hmmm ❤
My 4 Rogue Party: Swashbuckler Rogue is the Face, Dex + Charisma Scout Rogue handles the nature-oriented stuff and is just the nimble person in general, probably also has a bow and sharpshooter. Arcane Tricckster rogue is our magic-user, and gets access to an essential heal spell via a feat. (Probably takes several feats for expanded spells and cantrips), as well as the Ritual Caster feat. Soulknife Rogue is never unarmed, sets up the party to succeed with telepathy, and can push the potential of their skills to insane heights with psy knack, so maybe they take some of the highest-stakes skills.
I know there's some redunduncy, but I think that a soulknife rogue that takes the telepathic feat would be very useful with that detect thoughts spell that they can then communicate to someone else. Or perhaps the arcane trickster for the recasting + you gotta have something for when the comms break down and you need to coordinate. I can even see reason for swashbuckler or mastermind to take the feat. (Swashbuckler is the guy over the comms that tells you how to seduce/bard and well this feat explains how the mastermind communicates those weaknesses so well.)
A high level Rogue AT can cast major image. Hiding inside an illusion to finish the heist is pressing the easy button. Side note, they specified no multiclassing, but if a rogue took levels in Glamour Bard, wouldn’t they call it going rouge? 😊
Not sure Scout does much for a party of rogues. It's a subclass I really like, but it mostly does things for itself. It doesn't synergise with other rogues, or offer something they lack. They mostly just move really well in combat and that's most of it I'd switch the Scout for a Phantom in that party
I can't believe you didn't talk about Sleep. The arcane trickster having access to Sleep at level 3 absolutely destroys encounters where they're outnumbered by lower CR creatures. 'Oh, you attacked us with 8 goblins, at 7hp apiece thats, hold on 5d8, I rolled a 21, that's three of them asleep. Four vs Five now and we still have three other rogue attacks to go.'
If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise, and intimidation on your side. But if any one element is lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them. Only then will you ensure victory and have your trophy.- Count Dooku. Rules I follow when I play a rogue!
When I play a rogue my chief weapon is fear; fear and surprise. My two chief weapons are fear and surprise, and ruthless efficiency. My three chief weapons--
I’ve done this in a party of three and it was really fun. It was like Ocean’s Eleven and sometimes it felt like we were three separate games, all working different angles.
@@twicedeadmageSaves aren't skill checks. Easy way to tell is that they aren't called the same thing and have their own separate boxes on the character sheet XD
@@twicedeadmage 2 attacks. 3 if thief. no rogue doesn't use two weapons :) now imagine 4 snerak attacks per turn. but if it's not a non magic setting, they will be seen by an invisible watcher or they arrive and find out the mage just teleported in, took all loot and teleported out again :)
It's interesting how your thoughts went to a heist style campaign right away. My mind went to a hitman style campaign, and I thought Soul knife (telepathy), Assassin (dps), Phantom (chip damage to other targets and skill versatility), and Scout (for better travelling) was a solid party.
Monty is referring to the Boots of Springheel Jak. They were used to both survive the fall escaping from the Imperial Palace, as well as making a high jump to get into the palace. Oblivion was one of my favorite games.
I remember I loved the boots so much I snuck out through the palace instead of jumping into the shaft cause I wanted to keep them after the quest. I don’t remember how but I did manage to escape undetected.
@@pcdeltalink036 They were awesome. Another trick was to take the boots off, then once you jump down the shaft, hold the controller either forward or back (can’t remember) once you started falling. There was a little ledge you could catch to break the fall, and survive without the boots. If I remember correctly, the boots were the same as acrobatics at 100, so obviously if you had acrobatics maxed then they were useless, but considering just how freaking long it took to raise acro, the boots were the shiz. LOL
I will say this I think the biggest weakness you addressed is that the party needs to be a well oiled machine which is fine until one or more Nat 1s rear their ugly head. And I think that's where a good DM would need to come into play to allow the players access to those items as early rewards. And even if you don't make them rewards you can use another staple of the genre, black markets to buy items that'd be hard or illegal otherwise.
The Dudes don't often talk about what ancestry/race you should choose but in an all rogue party you are seriously missing out if you don't have a halfling who then takes the racial feat to be able to reroll his party members' natural 1s.
@@EvilGeniusPrime Yeah in the sorcerer one they did address this a bit more but still overlook how races can compensate for party weaknesses. Like Sorcerers don't make for the best explorers but I pointed out take a changeling and use the shape change to infiltrate.
I wanna suggest multi-class dips for each of these 4 and I totally agree with the subclass choices. Arcane trickster - dip divination wizard for a familiar and portent Mastermind - dip cleric for extra support Swashbuckler - Dip battlemaster or hexblade to make them better at being the melee combatant. Soul knife - aberrant mind sorcerer to double down on the psionics
It still surprises me that Soulknife psionics don't have any use for Intelligence but the Psi Warrior does, especially since Intelligence seems more at home in the Rogue wheelhouse as tertiary stat than it does in the Fighter one
Optional other multi classes: AT: Artificer, lean in to the gadgeteer. Armorer sounds really good here. Mastermind: Ranger or Druid to pick up Pass Without Trace. Gloomstalker is obvious, but Wildfire can be good for an extra body and teleportation. Swashbuckler: Swords Bard gives additional team utility, extra attack, and manuevers, plus Med Armor. Paladin could be good too, but probably too supporty Soul knife: Beast Barbarian opens up the "we're made, go loud" option, making 4 attacks a turn as early as lvl 8
Super loved you both talking about my favorite class. Great series. I would like to present for consideration my theoretical all rogue party. The Conman: SoulKnife Lizardfolk with a high charisma and focusing on face skills. Take the Inspiring Leader feat. This character has a great synergy between psy blades and Natural Armor, they can infiltrate any event with nothing suspicious on them and have the SoulKnife abilities to survive and escape if things go south. The Muscle: Mountain Dwarf Mastermind, has high strength, moderate dexterity for medium armor and takes the Tavern Brawler feat and maybe tough. Gets up close and personal, providing sneak attack opportunities and stabbing with a shiv. (Improvised Weapon) Takes care of key strength challenges, has dark vision and I would take Expertise in Insight and support the Conman by feeding them telepathically information about the mark. Also swap a Dwarf weapon proficiency out for nets. The Sneak: Gnome Thieve with wisdom as a secondary stat, expertise in Stealth and Perception, then takes Healer feat as soon as possible and later Skulker. This is your medic keeping everyone alive, this is a natural improviser using magic items and Fast Hands to unexpectedly turn the situation around, they are your eyes and ears keeping anyone from sneaking up on the group, but beyond that they can be a solo infiltrator when necessary. Between dark vision, Gnomish Cunning, perception and stealth, they can survive a lot of narrow escapes with only their street smarts. The Arcanist: LightFoot Halfling Arcane Trickster. This is your mini wizard, your utility and the one who bends the rules and can step in to fill anyone else’s role in a brief burst of magical potential. High intelligence and I would recommend Thieves Tools and Sleight Of Hand to synergize with Legerdemain, later take some knowledge expertise skills. Take Ritual Caster to round out utility and I would later take Sentinel actually. (It can mesh with Mirror image and I like the idea of going in to support the muscle sometimes) Magical ambush works great with Haflings ability to hide behind medium sized teammates. Also, once everyone gets BlindSight, pick up the darkness spell to and enjoy. ❤❤❤ I love this rag muffin team of scoundrels
I feel like in the cases of full martial class parties, you have to account for setting stanards and other player options. If my friends and I were to play such a party in the Eberron setting, in Sharn, I imagine our Face would choose to play a changeling, the arcane trickster would probably opt for the Jorasco halfling subrace to add some healing spells, and there would probably also be a thief due to how common magic items are.
I just thought of another advantage for a soulknife: they can enter an area or situation "unarmed" (like either a fancy party or a tense negotiation) and not be caught off-guard if things go south
You need a mountain dwarf strength rogue who can hold people down while the rogues pound on them, they could be soul knife, or another subclass, but sometimes you just need brute strength as a solution and you really aren't leaving much behind with that, they can get medium armor so you still want an 14 dex, but you can dump wisdom and int heavily, it's thematic anyway. :D
With a single feat. you can dump dex completely in favour of Heavy Armour! Though the rest of the party would hate how noisy you are unless your armour is made of mithril
I'm excited for your thoughts on an all fighters party. I'm going through BG3 with four dwarf fighters and it's so fun just carving through each encounter
I could see a lot of good campaign ideas: 1. Commando strike team for the king in a low magic environment. 2. A group of traveling knights participating in tournaments (like “A Knight’s Tale”, but for all players) 3. Players are a part of a mercenary guild that participates in battles between different factions, sometimes fighting against former allies based on whose hired them.
I was in a legitimate "Oops all Rogue" party like five or six years ago and it was extremely memorable. Our DM had said that he had run all one class games before, so it wasn't a big deal for him... but one of the most memorable moments in the game was that when combat hit and we excitedly rolled initiative every one of us scattered... and then hit and ran our way to a very successful couple of rounds. The ability of the rogue to uniquely navigate a battlefield with bonus action disengage or a judicious use of the mobile feat (I was the one playing the "mobile" character) makes it very much feel like a game of whack a mole for the DM. It was almost immediately useless for the DM to even try and construct a battlemap as half of us where off of it with in the first round or so. It was a great time but yes, it's very much a situation where you can never be prepared enough for it and a bad roll can really derail you. We ended up TPKing which was the first time I ever experienced it as a player, because one of the other PCs kept getting nat 1s. We didn't make it to Reliable Talent levels but it would have been a lot stronger if we had had a bard or someone who had the ability to get us up from down without having to sacrifice a turn and a half to get to someone to make them drink a potion. When combat goes south its like dominos even if you get the line to stop falling, you have your work cut out for you putting it all back together. But I will tell you this: It was EXTREMELY enjoyable even the TPK no one walked out with any hard feelings. And it was where I fell in love with the "Oops all (one class)" concept. I would LOVE to do one with Clerics. That makes me like salivate with how busted that would have to be.
Combat feels like it would be exceptionally fun because of how dynamic it would be. Rogues have exceptional movement abilities and are at their best when they are tag team ganking a single enemy. It would almost be like a dance, having one rogue dive in to finish off an enemy tying up the second rogue to allow him to move and assist the third. Knowing how to work the rolled initiative into this dance would be tricky, but it would be the most dynamic combat you have.
I absolutely agree with this party make-up. As soon as I saw the title of the video I knew exactly which four archetypes the Dungeon Dudes would pick. With clever choices of lineages you can add quite a bit to the party and help make up for some of the weaknesses. Specifically, I would go with the following: Mastermind: Wood Elf. As the member of the party with the highest Wisdom, you'll probably want to be proficient in Survival, and Wood Elf synergizes well with the outdoorsy feel that you'll probably go for. At Level 4 pick up the Athlete feat. With proficiency in Longbow, you'll probably want to stay away from the front line. Athlete lets you climb to a safe location where melee enemies can't get to you, lie prone so enemies have disadvantage on their ranged attacks against you, then get back up using only the bonus 5 feet of movement your Wood Elf heritage gives you. Just be sure to stay within 30 feet of an enemy (and hope they can't climb) so you can use your Master of Tactics. Swashbuckler: Half Elf. Gain Booming Blade from High Elf Heritage. This gives you the option to run in, sneak attack the enemy and at the same time lock them down with Booming Blade, then run away. You might not use it on every attack because you sacrifice the ability to attack with an off-hand weapon, but when it's more advantageous to run away than to stay, it's always good to make the enemy reluctant to chase you. Alternately go with Kobold (MMotM) as your lineage, which also lets you get Booming Blade. Arcane Trickster: Eladrin. (MMotM) Add teleportation to your bag of tricks. If you always have Spring as your season, you can "hand off" the teleportation to your allies if needed. At Level 4 pick up Elven Accuracy. This makes you the go-to for the Mastermind's Master of Tactics ability. You'll also have the ability to swap out tool and weapon proficiencies each day, to give you a little more utility outside combat. Soul Knife: Owlin. You're the best ranged attacker in the party (you can attack twice per round if needed and you outrange the Mastermind if they want to use Master of Tactics), so having flight gives you the ability to find a perch out of reach of the enemies. At Level 4, pick up the Skill Expert feat to gain an extra skill proficiency and expertise. You want as many skill proficiencies as possible to make best use of your psychic dice. Alternately go with Tabaxi as your lineage, which gives you an extra proficiency above the Owlin and a burst of speed when needed, but you downgrade your flight to just a climbing speed. Note that all the races above get Darkvision, so that's one less problem to worry about.
I love the Phantom's ability to bounce their Sneak attack damage. If they work together with a Monk (because of their great mobility on the field) or a Swashbuckling Rogue to flank and get advantage regularly, it becomes a huge asset. I played one in a group with a Swashbuckler, a Mercy Monk, a War Cleric, and a Sorcerer/Warlock and my Phantom does not disappoint. (To sweeten the deal, she's an Eladrin. That teleport ability combined with all the Rogue skills is *chefs kiss*)
Not allowing any multiclassing is understandable, since it would make every video in this series take twice as long to make with all the possibilities to consider, but also severely hampers the powers of single-class parties in most cases. Here’s my character ideas for a rogue-only adventuring party that *does* allow multiclassing: - Swashbuckler/lvl 1 Hexblade (or lvl 3 w/ revised rules) - Arcane Trickster/lvl 3 Armorer - Assassin/lvl 5 Gloomstalker - Mastermind/lvl 3 College of Whispers - Thief/lvl 5 Alchemist - Inquisitive/Blood Hunter (idk about subclass or level I haven’t played a Blood Hunter) - Phantom/lvl 5 Way of the Long Death - Scout/lvl 5 Hunter or Beast Master - Soulknife/lvl 5 Psi Warrior
This sounds like so much fun! I can imagine a group based on thieves of legend. Like Bonnie and Clyde. It could be Bonny the bagman and Clyde the cleaver. Also I like having no actual healer, because it ups the stakes of a heist, while opening up the campaign to alternate solutions. Like having an "under base" with a hospital you can recover in, making extracting your fallen friend from a situation important. Decisions have more weight. Do you pop that limited store of health pots now or later? Do you keep that spell scroll or turn it over? Also heist's could straight up have "pay grades" with a decision. Do you keep the magic gear you stole for your gang or turn it over to a client for crypto? And if you did the job well, maybe there is bonus pay or faction benefits. This makes prep for future heists more meaningful and encourages teamwork on the fly.
Excellent content guys. I could definitely use a boost in your audio, though. I have to frequently turn the volume up and down to account for the drastic volume range. A bit of compression could fix that.
Me, a 5e DM of several years, have been planning an All Rogue Campaing for my players, and man is it gonna be a blast. My players are hyped too. This will indeed be a city-focussed-campaign in Waterdeep and Skull Port. These characters are not out to save the world. This is about turf war and flaunting their newly aquired wealth, avoiding rival gangs murder attempts, tipping off the "Police" about other gangs activities so they get in trouble, avoiding the same happening to them, raiding other gangs hideouts & vaults etc. Occasionally travelling to other cities to carry out a burglary or even an assassination. At higher levels they sneak into all kinds of monsters lairs to plunder, leaving a trail leading to another powerful monsters lair just to have them fight it out. They will be a part of a Thieves guild and have a guild leader sending them out on tuff like that. It's gonna be so much fun to see this. But this will be a short and fast campaing where they level up after every session, then back to the original "Main" campaing.
Alright pre-video team; Arcane Trickster for magic utility, Thief for non-magical utility and maybe doing something for support? Mastermind for support and social, and then either scout or Swashbuckler for front lining or skirmishing (so diverse I know)
It’s cool that I’ve actually seen (or at least heard) people play this before because NADDPod did a short campaign with an all rogue party. It was cool since they were three generations of the same party
The old Thieves' Guild RPG (Gamelords) was fun. Essentially a system in which Thief was the only class available. There were a whole bunch of sourcebooks and a city setting (The Free City of Haven). Characters had 12 abilities which split the standard 6 into halfs, so that Dexterity became Agility and Manual Dexterity, for example. The most transferable part of the system was the Skills, which I used for a while with a 1E DnD game. Characters could chose from a library of skill proficiencies, each of which had a proficiency level from (I think) 1-4. Memorable examples were Level 1 Horsemanship - "Has sat on a horse", and Level 1 Numeracy - knows the exchange rate from Coper to Silver to Gold - you better have that one!
I think the Eldritch Adept feat is awesome for this party. Since then you can get some really nice abilities, like at will detect magic, at will disguise self, reading all languages or even at will speak with animals. Additionally it is only a weak party in a traditional campaign. If you just play a standard module yes, clerics and druids are just better as an all 1 class party. But if you're playing with a DM that is willing to go with it, it can be absolute S tier. In fact if I would run a campaign like that I would probably have pretty low magic setting, or something like Ebberon, which has a ton of magic, but it's also available to almost everyone through magic items, and high lvl magic is still extremely rare to basically none existant. But I think this kind of party is the way you can bring a dishonered like setting to life for example eventhough it's D&D or even something like Shadowrun without too much difficulty. I probably wouldn't put a single high lvl caster in the whole campaign. Below lvl 11 you have a completely different game than above it though, since reliable talent completely changes the game. A perfect mission is just basically impossible with something as swingy as a D20 with the frequency you roll it. Something like expertise just isn't enough to make a lvl 3 rogue party reliably sneak in for example. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun, just different.
Finally got around to listening to the “all…party” episodes. Really loving the idea! Camdyn, my Changeling, Rogue-Soulknife is FUN to play! He is a “daggers-only” character, who’s proficient with poisons.
Ive never been in an all rogue game, but I have run a 1 on 1 side game for my party's rogue. Probably one of the best sessions ive ever run. The great thing about it was that instead of throwing in the occasional thing that lets a player shine, it was always things that let them shine. He got to infiltrate the seedy underbelly of the town and locate a secret thieves guild. Lots of troubles and hijinks ensued. Single class parties would be great from a DM perspective because you can tailor the game to fit one playstyle, rather than a bunch.
First thought on seeing "All rogue party," and only reinforced as the playstyle approach gets described: "Watch your back Shoot straight Conserve ammo And never, EVER, cut a deal with a dragon" While Shadowrun fulfills a very different fantasy, the vibes that this party brings feel a lot like a 'Runner team. Also, weirdly, I feel like your players who love the all wizard party will love this one, too. Every situation wants an unconventional approach, and this party either has the tools and tricks to pull it off or can and will go get them! Also, yeah, if people are looking for alternate systems for heist-filled goodness, I semi-recommend Shadowrun 5e. It's hard to learn and kinda scuffed so you'll want an experienced GM to learn it, and it's SUPER crunchy, but the setting is fantastic, the integrated skill-based rolls are a load of fun, and the way that character creation works helps inspire really creative, unique, and memorable characters where the fluff and mechanics mix, merge, and mingle in a wonderful way, which is just awesome! ^v^ Also, for statistics nerds, you're rolling a pool of d6 and counting the 5s and 6s, so your rolls tend to not just get higher but also more consistent as you get better at things, which feels nice.
Currently playing an all rogue campaign and it’s incredibly fun! We have yet to have a combat encounter but the amount of shenanigans is off the charts.
I am only 3 minutes in but my first thought was build a Dwarven (for armor) thief rogue & pick-up the Healer feat. Later add the Chef feat, it means your healer can now heal 1 hit point to recover someone from going down as a bonus action using a healer's kit & once/rest (might be long-rest) heal 1d6+the-target's-level as an action using a healer's kit. When you pick-up the Chef feat you can then hand out temporary hit points. Inspiring leader might be good too for the temp hit points, but that would require investment in CHA that you might not be interested in.
From a flavor / campaign point of view, there is another classic example: Robin Hood and his Merry Men. Hiding out in the woods, any number of heists against the Sherriff of Nottingham and his cronies - totally rogue flavor!
This plus a top to bottom run through of Keys to the Golden Vault consecutively and getting rewarded a sweet sweet magical item at the end of each quest
An all Rogue Party: 1) Count your party size. Record. 2) Roll a matching die, rounding up. (4: 1d4, 5: 1d6, 6: 1d6) 3) The result of the roll is *how many party members spell it "ROUGE."*
I think a Thief would bring a lot to the group too! Fast Hands letting them use items/thieves tools with a bonus action means they can get really creative with item use or unlocking things in a hurry. Really helps since items are the best option for AoE they get for mobs, so just scattering ball bearings/caltrops behind as the gang runs away and fires arrows would help a lot. Or throwing flour to reveal invisible objects, throwing or setting explosives/traps with a bonus action, and if they take the Healer feat they can become the combat medic too! 1d6+4+Target's Max Hit Dice HP heal with a bonus action is really nice, and healer kits to do it with are super cheap (5 GP for 10 uses). Makes them into this Macguyver/Combat Medic/Getaway Specialist mix, and you can throw the extra stats anywhere you want (maybe Strength to carry more/jump further?).
We have done a one shot (well it lasted 2 to 3 sessions) like this where we all played rouges. It was a 5e conversion of the 1e module L2 The Assassin’s Knot.
I love Rogues, and was finally able to get the gang to make an all Rogue party for a one-shot we played. It was great! Just last week they were saying we should do it again, and I'm SO HAPPY! #RogueForLife
Here from Treantmonk’s new video. The first time I ever DM’d was for a group of 3 friends who all wanted to be Rogues. Forced me to get creative with encounter building, but it was a lot of fun
I played an all-rogue mini-campaign in my earlier years with D&D. Some great memories of shenanigans from that one. Funnily enough, our party was a Mastermind, a Swashbuckler, and an Arcane Trickster.
I agree that this is a party who should (and can) cut and run if a battle doesn’t look like an easy win. Which I also think would be super fun to play. However there is a neat optional tule in the DMG which could help with mob situations, Cleave. If you reduce an enemy from full health to zero in a single attack, you can transfer the remaining damage to another enemy within range. And if that reduces the new target from full health to zero, repeat. 👍🏼💀💀💀
One of my favorite 2nd edition short campaigns I did was 4 rogues in a big city that had to figure out a heist. Love single class parties because everyone can build they character completely different but still be on the same wavelength, it’s pretty neat!
I think it would be a fun collaborative session between 2 groups of rogues trying to steal the same thing, but only the 2 gms can talk to talk to each other. Party goes for item 4, but its gone and the guards are on guard because the other team already stole it, now they have to find another way to continue the heist, etc
It really sounds funny, i can imagine making a one-shot for my friends with this. The only thing i would change is switching the mastermind out for a inquisitiv. Yes, he is more of an inspector kind of rogue but exactly this part fits very good for being a scout.
For low level games, color spray and sleep are still effective and accessible by the arcane trickster. At mid levels they can get blur and mirror image to buffer themselves further. They can also take darkness and silence. As for dealing with mobs, that's what bombs, fireflasks, oil, caltrops/ball bearings are for. You don't need to kill large groups, just slow them down enough for you to pick them off 2 or 3 at a time.
Keep in mind, Sneak Attack doesn't state that an attack needs to be made with the DEX stat, merely that the attack must be made with a weapon with the finesse property. Theoretically, you could multiclass Rogue with Barbarian, wield a finesse weapon like a short sword, scimitar, or rapier, rage, and make reckless sneak attacks with your STR, and when you score crits, not only are you doubling weapon damage and sneak attack damage dice, but are also doubling brutal critical dice (assuming you get to 9th level Barbarian or take the Half-Orc ancestry) and tacking on extra rage damage. That said, if we're looking to stay within just the Rogue class, I imagine that the Swashbuckler would likely work just fine as a STR-based Rogue.
@@ATG3192also with the option of expertised athletics plus shield master for BA shoves could be superb with this. Still get sneak attack, regardless of if shove worked, advantaged if it did & everyone else can run in & get advantage
Crafting would actually be an amazing tool for an all rogue party with everyone getting potions of speed scrolls and other items that are really useful to patch up holes in the gameplay.
Cool fact about those boots in Oblivion! If you have high enough acrobatics, you don't have to equip the boots during the quest where you fall a long distance (low acrobatics will kill you). This way, the boots will survive in your inventory, whereas normally this destroys the boots. Then you will have the boots permanently and can get your acrobatics high enough to jump out of cities.
When our normal DM needed a break from DMing, I volunteered to run a shorter side campaign with different characters for a bit; four out of the six players ended up wanting to be a Rogue so we all just ran with it. Established that they’d all been scooped together by the bard (the prior DM’s character) who wanted to turn their otherwise directionless edginess into something that could do some good in the world. The missions they undertook were often a bit sketchier than what the main party did but gave the players a chance to be sneaker and more creative with their methods and tactics which everyone enjoyed. They were fun side missions and we still occasionally go back to our little band of marauders, but I don’t think I could run that party as a full campaign, couldn’t keep coming up with elaborate scenarios fast enough :D
I still think you should do a consideration of races that could enhance the party. For example, I think earth genasi would be incredible for the swashbuckler. The party gets Pass without trace, and the swashbuckler can get pb turns of bonus action blade ward (and aren't slowed by difficult terrain).
Thief and Fast Hands feels like it would be so iconic in a game like this. The Healer feat works well to make a pseudo healer that is always using the surroundings to benefit the party.
I had an all rogue campaign that lasted over 10 years, all kinds of mayhem was involved. Starting in 1st edition it ended in the midst of 3.5. Keep up the Sage work, not to mention your top tier campaign.
I played a party where I was a bard and the one other player was a druid. Every single part of the campaign we were able to stealth through it. The campaign was supposed to be longer but we only ended up having a single combat and finished the entire campaign in seven sessions. We did a stealth speedrun haha. I DO sort of feel bad for the DM because he had some interesting encounters planned, but we were just like "okay, its invisible rat time."
DMed for it and it was awesome. It was only two players but it was still great. I was going to DM a one shot for two of my players when we knew the other player couldn’t make it. I had a plan but when both players (without talking to each other or me) came to me with a rogue character. I dropped all of my plans and immediately started planning a heist. The characters made it in and out of the heist without ever being seen and killed the BBEG Archwarlock without the Warlock ever getting a turn. It was incredible. If I remember correctly it was an Assassins and a Soul Knife. The soul knife absolutely used their psychic abilities to the fullest neither character ever spoke out loud.
The often underrated thief would be a necessity in this group. Fast hands combined with the healer feat makes them a combat medic, not to mention already being a controller with caltrops and ball bearings. Once they reach 13th level, they can start using all the class/race specific goodies the party has stolen(holy avenger backstab!) as well as being the best scroll casters in the game.
Love stuff like this. One of my favorite “Rogue” like shows is Leverage( Hitter, Hacker, Grifter, Thief, Mastermind ). I have 2 straight Rogues. ( Assassin Lvl 4 and Phantom Lvl 8) and one Multi Class. ( Rogue 5, Bard 3 )
Scout might be an option too. 2 more expertise and 13th level feature is an easy source of advantage first round. Oh, and what about an all kobold party for this? Draconic cry for lots of advantage, and kobold legacy to get everyone green flame blade (except soul knife who takes friends). All of a sudden crowds aren't as much of an issue. Also you could totally do the 3 kobolds in a trench coat thing
Yeah having them operate as part of a guild would probably be the best way to fill up any gaps, have an Artificer like Q from James Bond who just makes cool stuff for the Rogues to use, be it infusions, scrolls, or potions, maybe a caster to cast some long-lasting spells on them before they go which also adds time pressure to the heist, a bard guild leader who can give them all a bardic Inspiration as part of the planning (fudge the duration so it lasts 10 mins from the start of the mission), and a medic to patch them up when they get back, for healing you can also have the Healer feat obviously but also the Inspiring Leader feat for the swashbuckler for a bunch of TempHP. There's also the rarely used Assassin 9th level feature that lets them develop a cover identity, great for infiltration, being the guy on the inside posing as a guard.
Interesting concept for a stealth character to get XP for avoiding combat. So they need devices or strategies for creating scenarios for stealth multiple times in a confrontation. For instance they have smoke bombs or other distraction techniques to regain the ability to hide, get away, or sneak attack.
A Feat I would consider would also be Eldritch Adept. Rogues do have that extra ASI/Feat at lvl10 which I would give consideration towards that Feat. Even with just one Invocation, Eldritch Sight gives Detect Magic all the time, Mask of Many Faces gives unlimited Disguise Self, heck even Devil's Sight fixes the 1 guy who didn't take a race with Darkvision. Yes the options are limited for non-Warlocks, but they are still strong
The Eldritch Adept feat has as a prerequisite either the 'Spellcasting' or 'Pact Magic' class feature, so all of the Rogues would have to multiclass to take it except for the Arcane Trickster.
Arcane Trickster can be the charismatic one as well, if you play Kenku, you can mimic voices perfectly and with disguise self, you're golden Also, the Phantom rogue is a monster at multi enemy damage
(Before Watching) My choice of subclasses would be: -Swashbuckler: This is the party face and closest thing to a frontline a rogue can be since it can impose disadvantage on a target. -Arcane Trickster: You need spells, he has spells, and invisible mage hand shennanigans are good to have -Soulknife: Baked-in multi-target damage with their bonus attack psychic blade throw, telepathey for the whole party, and a bunch of other psychic goodies -Scout or Phantom: These are the skill monkey-est skill monkeys to plug up holes in the party. Take Scout if you wanna be extra monkey for exploration, take Phantom if you need more AoE damage.
The All-Rogue party does actually have a neat strategy for mob encounters: Turning aroung and double-dashing the nine hells outta there
To be honest, they aren't even the best at that - Arcane casters can teleport, Druids can Wildshape into flying fast creatures, Paladins can likely steed away, Monks can use Ki... only really Clerics, Rangers, and Fighters are not as good as Rogues at fleeing.
Yeah, the whole 'take out targets before they get a turn' thing is just not mechanically represented by Rogues, unless you are facing low level guards or something. The DPR of a Rogue is very low, and also subject to being unreliable. There isn't really any reason a party of most any other class would not be able to do the same thing. Even stealth for surprise isn't a good argument: Rogues can get expertise in stealth, but most other characters can quite easily pass the passive Wisdom (Perception) checks of enemies if they try - the real challenge with stealth is staying out of line of sight and mechanically Rogues do not get a benefit to this (in fact, casters do this better from ritual familiar scouting to Darkness, etc.). Then you have the whole squishness, lack of battlefield control, lack of aoe, lack of condition inflicting, etc.
For this reason, I don't agree with the B ratiing - even the fun aspect is player-brought; there is nothing stopping a party of most any other four classes doing this (eh, maybe Clerics might have difficulty). They really are C rating that you can make fun with the exact right campaign, a very complicit DM, and the players going all in on a specific playstyle and hoping the dice isn't against them (from skill checks before reliable talent, to attack rolls, to damage rolls, to saving throws, etc.). 5e is pretty random with the d20 far outstripping most flat modifiers.
@@RJWhitmore B is fine. Roques has another options beside straightup frontal attacks with using cheats(spells)
Ah, the Jonathan Joestar technique
Excuse me fighters can dash twice too, they just need a smol short rest afterwards
@@RJWhitmore I disagree. Wizards and sorcerers have magic yes, but they are normally only able to take themselves unless they are high level. Druids can run fast, for quite a while but again it only applies to themself. Same with paladins. An entire party of rogues can stay together as they run, and usually outpace most enemies. Plus if they can break line of sight, they can hide. Even if caught up with, their disengage ability can help them keep from being locked into combat.
I’ve done this before. We called it our Surprise Party.
I'm doing it right now
I have a team of all rogues and a wizard who thinks they are all talking about the weather when talking in thieves can't, and dubbed them "The Weathermen".
Imagine this:
You are a powerful Lich whose plans keep being foiled by some stealthy organization. To increase your security, you have a pair of powerful undead minions to protect you. Suddenly both undead have been slain and you yourself are nearly killed off. You hear a complaint that they messed up. In a panic you cast your most powerful area of effect spell on the enemy that appeared before you: meteor swarm.
As the smoke clears, you see three of the four assailants standing unharmed in the middle of the rubble. Unseen by you, the fourth lands a killing blow.
Imagine this: but with the CoS they did not go there to save every one or kill the man him self!! no they are there simply to brake in to his vault and empty out and brake out of there! that is it! the go in to death house not to save the children but to robe it! and every thing they do! just winds up helping out the people while stumping are man Strahd like just when he think he has thies hero's on the rope there gone! when he think there going to one place they hit another! and when he prepping to face them in castle! for some epic show down! they just aren't there! as some one informs his his vault is empty!?.... when he final catch up to at the border trough the mist step a group of people who been looking for them as well! to arrest them!? what then the shove the blade and the rave crest in the main guys hands! who some sort of paladin and point at the vampire's & Strahd! who ever the allied with destroy Strahd's tower crystal! right as the fight happens! one kills his mount! to piss him off during the fight wit the new guy! and they the have sliped way! from the the men who came to arrest them and Strahd!
Aren't undead generally immune to critical and sneak attack?
@@doughboy_6439 Why would they be?
Most beautiful thing about this is that with 4 different rogues, you'll be seeing expertises in the Weird Skills for once. Sure everyone is picking Stealth Expertise (unless your Wood Elf took Wood elf Magic) but you only really need one-or-two pickpockets.
My own half-elf rogue in a campaign is a Scout with expertise in athletics acrobatics stealth and perception. He was raised and trained to be a sniper (soldier) and he also is really good at climbing and grappling. Rolled good stats so that at level 11 he has 16 str, 20 dex, 16 con, 11 int, 12 wis and 13 cha. He is the only party member who doesn't use magic at all nor does he understand how it works
@@nathanfivecoate5848I got to briefly play a rogue like that, human variant with the athlete feat, had 16 STR and 18 DEX, took assassin at lvl 3. He'd climb trees or buildings to shoot from above and avoid getting hit.
@@nathanfivecoate5848 I was making a Ranger (Hunter) Rogue (Scout) for a game and found it to be a very interesting combination. Which I think makes an interesting perspective on the Rogue, as the scout isn't necessarily a thief and has expertise in more unique stat options.
Expertise in athletics is a lot of fun as a grappler. My scout with the mobility feat and cunning action loves to drag people around the battlefield.
Expertise in Animal Handling, to settle the spooked horses.
The Thief with Healer feat is a must have imo
That’s what I was thinking too. The Mastermind can go, you need to find other ways of getting sneak attack. In fact you could go “uh oh all Kobolds” and probably always have advantage. The Thief is doing so much more here.
@@okayhellohihowyadoinkobolds yelling sneak attack would be hilarious
Arcane Trickster with Artificer Initiate can get you some healing as well
@@shawnheckert3725 Or Arcane Trickster with Gift of the Metallic Dragon works, too.
You can still have your Thief grab the Healer feat as a backup, or your Mastermind and/or Swashbuckler can take Magic Initiate to get a single cast of healing word per long rest (cleric/druid for Mastermind, bard for Swashbuckler).
Thief rouge support does so much work here. If you nab healer and chef to heal people and make full use of scaling, movement and the other off the wall magic items. This way of playing rewards the more creative player and getting someone back up when they get knocked out is such a value machine.
I feel like these all one class videos needs a one shot pairing, they always seem so fun
Yeeeeessss! Please
Totally!!!
The funny thing about heavy armor (and some medium armor) is that it provides disadvantage in stealth, but once rogues get Reliable Talent, disadvantage means very little. So if you can start with medium armor proficiency (gith or dwarf), you can have an 18 AC with stealth checks still being 25 minimum.
a rogue taking Medium armor Proficiency then Medium Armor Master lets them be one of the tankiest monsters in the game which is why I love doing such a build on a swashbuckler rogue, cause they want to be in melee so often
@eskimoquinn1 I like MAM, but it's not worth it
Best you can do is half plate (15) +3, but if youre planning on capping dex anyway, studded leather is 12+dex (17), so a feat for +1 AC, you could take Defense. It would work just as well as MAM and have cheaper armor.
I only mentioned the heavy armor thing bc I thought it was funny
Or perhaps one of the earlier missions is to steal some mithral armor, which doesn't cause disadvantage on stealth checks.
Don't forget shields (+2 AC ) and magic armor with additional bonuses. Add a feat or two to help and boom, my arcane trickster has a 22 AC atm. (Can use shields bc I also bought a casting focus on a necklace.)
@@crownlexicon5225 You forget its a two feat investment and you get proficiency in shields so without magic armor its a total AC of 20 and since bounded accuracy is a thing having 3 extra ac means you are not having to waiste your Uncanny Dodge 15% more often and if you started off as variant Human or Custom Origin you can have both by level 5 when Uncanny Dodge comes on line but the real waste of feats would be also grabbing Tavern Brawler then Dual Wielder so your shield classifies as a weapon so you end up with 21 AC and finally take Defencive Duelist so instead of using Uncanny dodge you bump up your ac to 27 if the attack wasn't a crit, Bwahahahahaha
Did it once, it was loads of fun. The DM's reaction when he realized we basically had a secret language thanks to thieves cant was gold.
That is one of the two installments of this series I was waiting for. It's early in China and I'm listening happily to 2 Canadian dudes who explain to me the hobby I started with in the late 80s in Germany.
Perfect start of my day.
I cannot wait until you guys get to the all Artificer "Mad Science" party, just because of how well they could play off of each other. They all fill very common roles and would make for a particularly solid team. Also, just having a party of mad scientist solving their problems with the power of **SCIENCE** is just amazing. I wanted to run an all-Artificer party once (but nobody wanted to =/)
I wonder which subclasses they will pick
I’ve sketched out a party like this,(based on the Dudes series of videos) and it’s really really cool how much an artificer party supports and props up each other.
I think it would be a blast.
@@HiopXthere’s only 4 subclass so likely one of each.
@@AtelierGod did you hear a whoosh when the joke went over your head?
Yeah I am really looking forward to that one.
Personally, I think this party doesn't really work unless you have a Thief Rogue with the Healer feat. Having a reliable way to bring up downed allies is essential for preventing a TPK for a martial heavy group and Thief Rogue does it beautifully, including through their ability to cast spell scrolls.
Meh, healing isn't really required for parties in DnD, overrated in general
@@darkestlight660It isn't good, but you do need some way to bounce up an ally who is making death saves in a tough fight. I think you could totally do that just with healing potions, but some DMs are very stingy with those. Probably good idea to talk about it at session zero with the DM.
You could also pick up skilled and use it to become proficient in the herbalist kit and bunch of other tools. You make the potions for the group.
@@aidandunne5978Or you could just, not go down?
I agree. A Thief with Healer feat and his Fast Hands could use its Cunning Action to use a Healer's Kit and bring back a downed character.
Thanks dudes! You guys are killing it! Jeez, maybe a D&D vacation is in order? Dudes, Colbs and Tmonk in the Caribbean playing a series of 1 shots on the beach with a different dm each game? Hmmm ❤
I'd love a crossover between them.
An artifact in the thieves guild that can cast Rary's Telepathic Bond would be cool. It would also set a time limit before the comms breaks down
My 4 Rogue Party:
Swashbuckler Rogue is the Face, Dex + Charisma
Scout Rogue handles the nature-oriented stuff and is just the nimble person in general, probably also has a bow and sharpshooter.
Arcane Tricckster rogue is our magic-user, and gets access to an essential heal spell via a feat. (Probably takes several feats for expanded spells and cantrips), as well as the Ritual Caster feat.
Soulknife Rogue is never unarmed, sets up the party to succeed with telepathy, and can push the potential of their skills to insane heights with psy knack, so maybe they take some of the highest-stakes skills.
I know there's some redunduncy, but I think that a soulknife rogue that takes the telepathic feat would be very useful with that detect thoughts spell that they can then communicate to someone else. Or perhaps the arcane trickster for the recasting + you gotta have something for when the comms break down and you need to coordinate. I can even see reason for swashbuckler or mastermind to take the feat. (Swashbuckler is the guy over the comms that tells you how to seduce/bard and well this feat explains how the mastermind communicates those weaknesses so well.)
This was my four as well. Scout is really good.
A high level Rogue AT can cast major image. Hiding inside an illusion to finish the heist is pressing the easy button.
Side note, they specified no multiclassing, but if a rogue took levels in Glamour Bard, wouldn’t they call it going rouge? 😊
Not sure Scout does much for a party of rogues. It's a subclass I really like, but it mostly does things for itself. It doesn't synergise with other rogues, or offer something they lack. They mostly just move really well in combat and that's most of it
I'd switch the Scout for a Phantom in that party
I can't believe you didn't talk about Sleep. The arcane trickster having access to Sleep at level 3 absolutely destroys encounters where they're outnumbered by lower CR creatures. 'Oh, you attacked us with 8 goblins, at 7hp apiece thats, hold on 5d8, I rolled a 21, that's three of them asleep. Four vs Five now and we still have three other rogue attacks to go.'
Sleep is good at low levels, but it scales poorly and can be countered with positioning and canny foes.
The telepathic feat, earth genasi, and the medic feat can be incredibly useful to such a party.
If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise, and intimidation on your side. But if any one element is lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them. Only then will you ensure victory and have your trophy.- Count Dooku. Rules I follow when I play a rogue!
When I play a rogue my chief weapon is fear; fear and surprise. My two chief weapons are fear and surprise, and ruthless efficiency. My three chief weapons--
If you're in a fair fight, you've already fucked up
I’ve done this in a party of three and it was really fun. It was like Ocean’s Eleven and sometimes it felt like we were three separate games, all working different angles.
That sounds like fun
This sounds terrifying, a party that just cannot fail any skill check XD
"Roll me a Strenght Save"
@@twicedeadmageSaves aren't skill checks. Easy way to tell is that they aren't called the same thing and have their own separate boxes on the character sheet XD
@@adamkaris No shit Sherlock, but Skill Checks ain't the whole of the game. 1 attack per PC and weak saves will be the doom of a Rogue party.
An all rogue/something else gestalt party could be interesting and I think there should at least 1 that uses druid.😊
@@twicedeadmage 2 attacks. 3 if thief. no rogue doesn't use two weapons :) now imagine 4 snerak attacks per turn. but if it's not a non magic setting, they will be seen by an invisible watcher or they arrive and find out the mage just teleported in, took all loot and teleported out again :)
I started this video right when I left from the airport and right when I pulled into my drive way you guys were doing the outro. How perfect.
It's interesting how your thoughts went to a heist style campaign right away. My mind went to a hitman style campaign, and I thought Soul knife (telepathy), Assassin (dps), Phantom (chip damage to other targets and skill versatility), and Scout (for better travelling) was a solid party.
Phantom is very interesting for the mob issue
Wow! this one really hit it out of the park. More than any of the others, I so want you guys to make this party!
Yes! Soul Knife is just SO good! I had a TON of fun playing one!
I would also pick Soul knife if I played a Rogue. Arcane trickster is one of those classes that needs too high of levels and I'd rather play a Bard.
And the capstone is a veritable trap, @@Charok1.
I miss my rouge. Autognome Soul Knife. SO MANY DICE
Monty is referring to the Boots of Springheel Jak. They were used to both survive the fall escaping from the Imperial Palace, as well as making a high jump to get into the palace. Oblivion was one of my favorite games.
I remember I loved the boots so much I snuck out through the palace instead of jumping into the shaft cause I wanted to keep them after the quest. I don’t remember how but I did manage to escape undetected.
@@pcdeltalink036 They were awesome. Another trick was to take the boots off, then once you jump down the shaft, hold the controller either forward or back (can’t remember) once you started falling. There was a little ledge you could catch to break the fall, and survive without the boots. If I remember correctly, the boots were the same as acrobatics at 100, so obviously if you had acrobatics maxed then they were useless, but considering just how freaking long it took to raise acro, the boots were the shiz. LOL
@@thetowndrunk988Damned Elder Council and their Levitation Act. Look what we honest thieves have been reduced to as a result
I will say this I think the biggest weakness you addressed is that the party needs to be a well oiled machine which is fine until one or more Nat 1s rear their ugly head. And I think that's where a good DM would need to come into play to allow the players access to those items as early rewards. And even if you don't make them rewards you can use another staple of the genre, black markets to buy items that'd be hard or illegal otherwise.
The Dudes don't often talk about what ancestry/race you should choose but in an all rogue party you are seriously missing out if you don't have a halfling who then takes the racial feat to be able to reroll his party members' natural 1s.
@@EvilGeniusPrime Yeah in the sorcerer one they did address this a bit more but still overlook how races can compensate for party weaknesses. Like Sorcerers don't make for the best explorers but I pointed out take a changeling and use the shape change to infiltrate.
This sounds like an S Tier campaign in terms of strategic fun.
With the right DM, this could be absolutely legendary.
~_~
Agreed!
I wanna suggest multi-class dips for each of these 4 and I totally agree with the subclass choices.
Arcane trickster - dip divination wizard for a familiar and portent
Mastermind - dip cleric for extra support
Swashbuckler - Dip battlemaster or hexblade to make them better at being the melee combatant.
Soul knife - aberrant mind sorcerer to double down on the psionics
I love these ideas :D
It still surprises me that Soulknife psionics don't have any use for Intelligence but the Psi Warrior does, especially since Intelligence seems more at home in the Rogue wheelhouse as tertiary stat than it does in the Fighter one
Optional other multi classes:
AT: Artificer, lean in to the gadgeteer. Armorer sounds really good here.
Mastermind: Ranger or Druid to pick up Pass Without Trace. Gloomstalker is obvious, but Wildfire can be good for an extra body and teleportation.
Swashbuckler: Swords Bard gives additional team utility, extra attack, and manuevers, plus Med Armor. Paladin could be good too, but probably too supporty
Soul knife: Beast Barbarian opens up the "we're made, go loud" option, making 4 attacks a turn as early as lvl 8
They specifically SAID no multiclass
Peace Cleric Rogue Multiclass. So many extra dice.
Super loved you both talking about my favorite class. Great series.
I would like to present for consideration my theoretical all rogue party.
The Conman: SoulKnife Lizardfolk with a high charisma and focusing on face skills. Take the Inspiring Leader feat. This character has a great synergy between psy blades and Natural Armor, they can infiltrate any event with nothing suspicious on them and have the SoulKnife abilities to survive and escape if things go south.
The Muscle: Mountain Dwarf Mastermind, has high strength, moderate dexterity for medium armor and takes the Tavern Brawler feat and maybe tough. Gets up close and personal, providing sneak attack opportunities and stabbing with a shiv. (Improvised Weapon) Takes care of key strength challenges, has dark vision and I would take Expertise in Insight and support the Conman by feeding them telepathically information about the mark. Also swap a Dwarf weapon proficiency out for nets.
The Sneak: Gnome Thieve with wisdom as a secondary stat, expertise in Stealth and Perception, then takes Healer feat as soon as possible and later Skulker. This is your medic keeping everyone alive, this is a natural improviser using magic items and Fast Hands to unexpectedly turn the situation around, they are your eyes and ears keeping anyone from sneaking up on the group, but beyond that they can be a solo infiltrator when necessary. Between dark vision, Gnomish Cunning, perception and stealth, they can survive a lot of narrow escapes with only their street smarts.
The Arcanist: LightFoot Halfling Arcane Trickster. This is your mini wizard, your utility and the one who bends the rules and can step in to fill anyone else’s role in a brief burst of magical potential. High intelligence and I would recommend Thieves Tools and Sleight Of Hand to synergize with Legerdemain, later take some knowledge expertise skills. Take Ritual Caster to round out utility and I would later take Sentinel actually. (It can mesh with Mirror image and I like the idea of going in to support the muscle sometimes) Magical ambush works great with Haflings ability to hide behind medium sized teammates.
Also, once everyone gets BlindSight, pick up the darkness spell to and enjoy.
❤❤❤ I love this rag muffin team of scoundrels
The Thief Rogue with Healer feat can probably help te survivability problem in this party
I feel like in the cases of full martial class parties, you have to account for setting stanards and other player options.
If my friends and I were to play such a party in the Eberron setting, in Sharn, I imagine our Face would choose to play a changeling, the arcane trickster would probably opt for the Jorasco halfling subrace to add some healing spells, and there would probably also be a thief due to how common magic items are.
I just thought of another advantage for a soulknife: they can enter an area or situation "unarmed" (like either a fancy party or a tense negotiation) and not be caught off-guard if things go south
You need a mountain dwarf strength rogue who can hold people down while the rogues pound on them, they could be soul knife, or another subclass, but sometimes you just need brute strength as a solution and you really aren't leaving much behind with that, they can get medium armor so you still want an 14 dex, but you can dump wisdom and int heavily, it's thematic anyway. :D
With a single feat. you can dump dex completely in favour of Heavy Armour! Though the rest of the party would hate how noisy you are unless your armour is made of mithril
Shield master for BA shoves could be fantastic for this, lets you still action attack & shores up the now weaker dex save
I'm excited for your thoughts on an all fighters party. I'm going through BG3 with four dwarf fighters and it's so fun just carving through each encounter
I could see a lot of good campaign ideas:
1. Commando strike team for the king in a low magic environment.
2. A group of traveling knights participating in tournaments (like “A Knight’s Tale”, but for all players)
3. Players are a part of a mercenary guild that participates in battles between different factions, sometimes fighting against former allies based on whose hired them.
I was in a legitimate "Oops all Rogue" party like five or six years ago and it was extremely memorable. Our DM had said that he had run all one class games before, so it wasn't a big deal for him... but one of the most memorable moments in the game was that when combat hit and we excitedly rolled initiative every one of us scattered... and then hit and ran our way to a very successful couple of rounds. The ability of the rogue to uniquely navigate a battlefield with bonus action disengage or a judicious use of the mobile feat (I was the one playing the "mobile" character) makes it very much feel like a game of whack a mole for the DM. It was almost immediately useless for the DM to even try and construct a battlemap as half of us where off of it with in the first round or so. It was a great time but yes, it's very much a situation where you can never be prepared enough for it and a bad roll can really derail you. We ended up TPKing which was the first time I ever experienced it as a player, because one of the other PCs kept getting nat 1s. We didn't make it to Reliable Talent levels but it would have been a lot stronger if we had had a bard or someone who had the ability to get us up from down without having to sacrifice a turn and a half to get to someone to make them drink a potion.
When combat goes south its like dominos even if you get the line to stop falling, you have your work cut out for you putting it all back together. But I will tell you this: It was EXTREMELY enjoyable even the TPK no one walked out with any hard feelings. And it was where I fell in love with the "Oops all (one class)" concept. I would LOVE to do one with Clerics. That makes me like salivate with how busted that would have to be.
Combat feels like it would be exceptionally fun because of how dynamic it would be. Rogues have exceptional movement abilities and are at their best when they are tag team ganking a single enemy. It would almost be like a dance, having one rogue dive in to finish off an enemy tying up the second rogue to allow him to move and assist the third. Knowing how to work the rolled initiative into this dance would be tricky, but it would be the most dynamic combat you have.
I absolutely agree with this party make-up. As soon as I saw the title of the video I knew exactly which four archetypes the Dungeon Dudes would pick.
With clever choices of lineages you can add quite a bit to the party and help make up for some of the weaknesses. Specifically, I would go with the following:
Mastermind: Wood Elf. As the member of the party with the highest Wisdom, you'll probably want to be proficient in Survival, and Wood Elf synergizes well with the outdoorsy feel that you'll probably go for. At Level 4 pick up the Athlete feat. With proficiency in Longbow, you'll probably want to stay away from the front line. Athlete lets you climb to a safe location where melee enemies can't get to you, lie prone so enemies have disadvantage on their ranged attacks against you, then get back up using only the bonus 5 feet of movement your Wood Elf heritage gives you. Just be sure to stay within 30 feet of an enemy (and hope they can't climb) so you can use your Master of Tactics.
Swashbuckler: Half Elf. Gain Booming Blade from High Elf Heritage. This gives you the option to run in, sneak attack the enemy and at the same time lock them down with Booming Blade, then run away. You might not use it on every attack because you sacrifice the ability to attack with an off-hand weapon, but when it's more advantageous to run away than to stay, it's always good to make the enemy reluctant to chase you. Alternately go with Kobold (MMotM) as your lineage, which also lets you get Booming Blade.
Arcane Trickster: Eladrin. (MMotM) Add teleportation to your bag of tricks. If you always have Spring as your season, you can "hand off" the teleportation to your allies if needed. At Level 4 pick up Elven Accuracy. This makes you the go-to for the Mastermind's Master of Tactics ability. You'll also have the ability to swap out tool and weapon proficiencies each day, to give you a little more utility outside combat.
Soul Knife: Owlin. You're the best ranged attacker in the party (you can attack twice per round if needed and you outrange the Mastermind if they want to use Master of Tactics), so having flight gives you the ability to find a perch out of reach of the enemies. At Level 4, pick up the Skill Expert feat to gain an extra skill proficiency and expertise. You want as many skill proficiencies as possible to make best use of your psychic dice. Alternately go with Tabaxi as your lineage, which gives you an extra proficiency above the Owlin and a burst of speed when needed, but you downgrade your flight to just a climbing speed.
Note that all the races above get Darkvision, so that's one less problem to worry about.
Don't forget the Phantom Rogue can walk through walls, and even hide in them temporarily (but it hurts)
That can probably be achieved in some way by the Arcane Trickster. Phantom is just not a good subclass. I've tried.
I love the Phantom's ability to bounce their Sneak attack damage. If they work together with a Monk (because of their great mobility on the field) or a Swashbuckling Rogue to flank and get advantage regularly, it becomes a huge asset. I played one in a group with a Swashbuckler, a Mercy Monk, a War Cleric, and a Sorcerer/Warlock and my Phantom does not disappoint.
(To sweeten the deal, she's an Eladrin. That teleport ability combined with all the Rogue skills is *chefs kiss*)
Phantom is underrated. Its a really a shenanigans through walls and soul token intel hunter if you kill the guards of the missions area
A campaign based on the game Theif where everyone is a different Subclass of Rogue. I think that would be so cool
Thief* I can't English lmao
This series is great and i love how indepth you go with these videos 👏🏻
"What if Everyone Plays a Warlock" is next, right Dudes?
Enjoyed this a lot. Keep on keepin' on, dudes!
Fighters and Warlocks are next up.
Not allowing any multiclassing is understandable, since it would make every video in this series take twice as long to make with all the possibilities to consider, but also severely hampers the powers of single-class parties in most cases.
Here’s my character ideas for a rogue-only adventuring party that *does* allow multiclassing:
- Swashbuckler/lvl 1 Hexblade (or lvl 3 w/ revised rules)
- Arcane Trickster/lvl 3 Armorer
- Assassin/lvl 5 Gloomstalker
- Mastermind/lvl 3 College of Whispers
- Thief/lvl 5 Alchemist
- Inquisitive/Blood Hunter (idk about subclass or level I haven’t played a Blood Hunter)
- Phantom/lvl 5 Way of the Long Death
- Scout/lvl 5 Hunter or Beast Master
- Soulknife/lvl 5 Psi Warrior
28:31
Green Lantern: “Can you fly?”
Batman: “In a plane.”
Next PC for me is going to be a Plasmoid, Soul Knife. I cant wait.
This sounds like so much fun! I can imagine a group based on thieves of legend. Like Bonnie and Clyde. It could be Bonny the bagman and Clyde the cleaver.
Also I like having no actual healer, because it ups the stakes of a heist, while opening up the campaign to alternate solutions.
Like having an "under base" with a hospital you can recover in, making extracting your fallen friend from a situation important. Decisions have more weight. Do you pop that limited store of health pots now or later? Do you keep that spell scroll or turn it over? Also heist's could straight up have "pay grades" with a decision.
Do you keep the magic gear you stole for your gang or turn it over to a client for crypto? And if you did the job well, maybe there is bonus pay or faction benefits.
This makes prep for future heists more meaningful and encourages teamwork on the fly.
Excellent content guys. I could definitely use a boost in your audio, though. I have to frequently turn the volume up and down to account for the drastic volume range. A bit of compression could fix that.
Me, a 5e DM of several years, have been planning an All Rogue Campaing for my players, and man is it gonna be a blast. My players are hyped too. This will indeed be a city-focussed-campaign in Waterdeep and Skull Port. These characters are not out to save the world. This is about turf war and flaunting their newly aquired wealth, avoiding rival gangs murder attempts, tipping off the "Police" about other gangs activities so they get in trouble, avoiding the same happening to them, raiding other gangs hideouts & vaults etc. Occasionally travelling to other cities to carry out a burglary or even an assassination. At higher levels they sneak into all kinds of monsters lairs to plunder, leaving a trail leading to another powerful monsters lair just to have them fight it out. They will be a part of a Thieves guild and have a guild leader sending them out on tuff like that. It's gonna be so much fun to see this.
But this will be a short and fast campaing where they level up after every session, then back to the original "Main" campaing.
Alright pre-video team; Arcane Trickster for magic utility, Thief for non-magical utility and maybe doing something for support? Mastermind for support and social, and then either scout or Swashbuckler for front lining or skirmishing (so diverse I know)
It’s cool that I’ve actually seen (or at least heard) people play this before because NADDPod did a short campaign with an all rogue party. It was cool since they were three generations of the same party
The thief is your medic with the fast hands feature, and the healer feats, they get action sneak attack with bonus action potions and healers kit.
I've been waiting for this one. My currently party is 3/4 Rogue's and it's been so much fun
The old Thieves' Guild RPG (Gamelords) was fun. Essentially a system in which Thief was the only class available. There were a whole bunch of sourcebooks and a city setting (The Free City of Haven). Characters had 12 abilities which split the standard 6 into halfs, so that Dexterity became Agility and Manual Dexterity, for example. The most transferable part of the system was the Skills, which I used for a while with a 1E DnD game. Characters could chose from a library of skill proficiencies, each of which had a proficiency level from (I think) 1-4. Memorable examples were Level 1 Horsemanship - "Has sat on a horse", and Level 1 Numeracy - knows the exchange rate from Coper to Silver to Gold - you better have that one!
I think the Eldritch Adept feat is awesome for this party. Since then you can get some really nice abilities, like at will detect magic, at will disguise self, reading all languages or even at will speak with animals.
Additionally it is only a weak party in a traditional campaign. If you just play a standard module yes, clerics and druids are just better as an all 1 class party. But if you're playing with a DM that is willing to go with it, it can be absolute S tier. In fact if I would run a campaign like that I would probably have pretty low magic setting, or something like Ebberon, which has a ton of magic, but it's also available to almost everyone through magic items, and high lvl magic is still extremely rare to basically none existant. But I think this kind of party is the way you can bring a dishonered like setting to life for example eventhough it's D&D or even something like Shadowrun without too much difficulty. I probably wouldn't put a single high lvl caster in the whole campaign. Below lvl 11 you have a completely different game than above it though, since reliable talent completely changes the game. A perfect mission is just basically impossible with something as swingy as a D20 with the frequency you roll it. Something like expertise just isn't enough to make a lvl 3 rogue party reliably sneak in for example. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun, just different.
Definitely agree - expertise in deception + mask of many faces was my first thought
Finally got around to listening to the “all…party” episodes. Really loving the idea!
Camdyn, my Changeling, Rogue-Soulknife is FUN to play! He is a “daggers-only” character, who’s proficient with poisons.
Ive never been in an all rogue game, but I have run a 1 on 1 side game for my party's rogue. Probably one of the best sessions ive ever run. The great thing about it was that instead of throwing in the occasional thing that lets a player shine, it was always things that let them shine. He got to infiltrate the seedy underbelly of the town and locate a secret thieves guild. Lots of troubles and hijinks ensued. Single class parties would be great from a DM perspective because you can tailor the game to fit one playstyle, rather than a bunch.
First thought on seeing "All rogue party," and only reinforced as the playstyle approach gets described:
"Watch your back
Shoot straight
Conserve ammo
And never, EVER, cut a deal with a dragon"
While Shadowrun fulfills a very different fantasy, the vibes that this party brings feel a lot like a 'Runner team. Also, weirdly, I feel like your players who love the all wizard party will love this one, too. Every situation wants an unconventional approach, and this party either has the tools and tricks to pull it off or can and will go get them!
Also, yeah, if people are looking for alternate systems for heist-filled goodness, I semi-recommend Shadowrun 5e. It's hard to learn and kinda scuffed so you'll want an experienced GM to learn it, and it's SUPER crunchy, but the setting is fantastic, the integrated skill-based rolls are a load of fun, and the way that character creation works helps inspire really creative, unique, and memorable characters where the fluff and mechanics mix, merge, and mingle in a wonderful way, which is just awesome! ^v^
Also, for statistics nerds, you're rolling a pool of d6 and counting the 5s and 6s, so your rolls tend to not just get higher but also more consistent as you get better at things, which feels nice.
Currently playing an all rogue campaign and it’s incredibly fun! We have yet to have a combat encounter but the amount of shenanigans is off the charts.
A Thief with the Healer feat could provide a good level of healing.
I am only 3 minutes in but my first thought was build a Dwarven (for armor) thief rogue & pick-up the Healer feat. Later add the Chef feat, it means your healer can now heal 1 hit point to recover someone from going down as a bonus action using a healer's kit & once/rest (might be long-rest) heal 1d6+the-target's-level as an action using a healer's kit. When you pick-up the Chef feat you can then hand out temporary hit points. Inspiring leader might be good too for the temp hit points, but that would require investment in CHA that you might not be interested in.
I think what this video shows is just how well the rogue, and its subclasses, play mechanically into the fantasy it suggests
From a flavor / campaign point of view, there is another classic example: Robin Hood and his Merry Men. Hiding out in the woods, any number of heists against the Sherriff of Nottingham and his cronies - totally rogue flavor!
This plus a top to bottom run through of Keys to the Golden Vault consecutively and getting rewarded a sweet sweet magical item at the end of each quest
The all-rogue and all-monk parties are super fun for people who like to play on hard mode.
An all Rogue Party:
1) Count your party size. Record.
2) Roll a matching die, rounding up. (4: 1d4, 5: 1d6, 6: 1d6)
3) The result of the roll is *how many party members spell it "ROUGE."*
I think a Thief would bring a lot to the group too! Fast Hands letting them use items/thieves tools with a bonus action means they can get really creative with item use or unlocking things in a hurry. Really helps since items are the best option for AoE they get for mobs, so just scattering ball bearings/caltrops behind as the gang runs away and fires arrows would help a lot. Or throwing flour to reveal invisible objects, throwing or setting explosives/traps with a bonus action, and if they take the Healer feat they can become the combat medic too! 1d6+4+Target's Max Hit Dice HP heal with a bonus action is really nice, and healer kits to do it with are super cheap (5 GP for 10 uses). Makes them into this Macguyver/Combat Medic/Getaway Specialist mix, and you can throw the extra stats anywhere you want (maybe Strength to carry more/jump further?).
We have done a one shot (well it lasted 2 to 3 sessions) like this where we all played rouges. It was a 5e conversion of the 1e module L2 The Assassin’s Knot.
I love Rogues, and was finally able to get the gang to make an all Rogue party for a one-shot we played. It was great! Just last week they were saying we should do it again, and I'm SO HAPPY!
#RogueForLife
Here from Treantmonk’s new video. The first time I ever DM’d was for a group of 3 friends who all wanted to be Rogues. Forced me to get creative with encounter building, but it was a lot of fun
I played an all-rogue mini-campaign in my earlier years with D&D. Some great memories of shenanigans from that one.
Funnily enough, our party was a Mastermind, a Swashbuckler, and an Arcane Trickster.
I agree that this is a party who should (and can) cut and run if a battle doesn’t look like an easy win. Which I also think would be super fun to play.
However there is a neat optional tule in the DMG which could help with mob situations, Cleave. If you reduce an enemy from full health to zero in a single attack, you can transfer the remaining damage to another enemy within range. And if that reduces the new target from full health to zero, repeat. 👍🏼💀💀💀
One of my favorite 2nd edition short campaigns I did was 4 rogues in a big city that had to figure out a heist. Love single class parties because everyone can build they character completely different but still be on the same wavelength, it’s pretty neat!
I think it would be a fun collaborative session between 2 groups of rogues trying to steal the same thing, but only the 2 gms can talk to talk to each other. Party goes for item 4, but its gone and the guards are on guard because the other team already stole it, now they have to find another way to continue the heist, etc
lmao Monty getting the rarest coin in a gacha ad is too good
It really sounds funny, i can imagine making a one-shot for my friends with this.
The only thing i would change is switching the mastermind out for a inquisitiv. Yes, he is more of an inspector kind of rogue but exactly this part fits very good for being a scout.
For low level games, color spray and sleep are still effective and accessible by the arcane trickster. At mid levels they can get blur and mirror image to buffer themselves further. They can also take darkness and silence. As for dealing with mobs, that's what bombs, fireflasks, oil, caltrops/ball bearings are for. You don't need to kill large groups, just slow them down enough for you to pick them off 2 or 3 at a time.
I just wish there was a strength-based rogue class like in 4e, it would be awesome to have a Muscle
Keep in mind, Sneak Attack doesn't state that an attack needs to be made with the DEX stat, merely that the attack must be made with a weapon with the finesse property. Theoretically, you could multiclass Rogue with Barbarian, wield a finesse weapon like a short sword, scimitar, or rapier, rage, and make reckless sneak attacks with your STR, and when you score crits, not only are you doubling weapon damage and sneak attack damage dice, but are also doubling brutal critical dice (assuming you get to 9th level Barbarian or take the Half-Orc ancestry) and tacking on extra rage damage.
That said, if we're looking to stay within just the Rogue class, I imagine that the Swashbuckler would likely work just fine as a STR-based Rogue.
@@ATG3192 oh I'm aware, but that bruiser flavour isn't there
@@ATG3192also with the option of expertised athletics plus shield master for BA shoves could be superb with this. Still get sneak attack, regardless of if shove worked, advantaged if it did & everyone else can run in & get advantage
Druids next please. I've already played an all-druid game and I want to hear your take on it.
Crafting would actually be an amazing tool for an all rogue party with everyone getting potions of speed scrolls and other items that are really useful to patch up holes in the gameplay.
The show "Leverage" is this and full of great archetypes and inspiration!
Was going to say the same. You can even see the subclasses. Would need to create a brawler homebrew, like pathfinder has, to do an Elliot.
Cool fact about those boots in Oblivion! If you have high enough acrobatics, you don't have to equip the boots during the quest where you fall a long distance (low acrobatics will kill you). This way, the boots will survive in your inventory, whereas normally this destroys the boots. Then you will have the boots permanently and can get your acrobatics high enough to jump out of cities.
When our normal DM needed a break from DMing, I volunteered to run a shorter side campaign with different characters for a bit; four out of the six players ended up wanting to be a Rogue so we all just ran with it. Established that they’d all been scooped together by the bard (the prior DM’s character) who wanted to turn their otherwise directionless edginess into something that could do some good in the world. The missions they undertook were often a bit sketchier than what the main party did but gave the players a chance to be sneaker and more creative with their methods and tactics which everyone enjoyed. They were fun side missions and we still occasionally go back to our little band of marauders, but I don’t think I could run that party as a full campaign, couldn’t keep coming up with elaborate scenarios fast enough :D
I still think you should do a consideration of races that could enhance the party.
For example, I think earth genasi would be incredible for the swashbuckler. The party gets Pass without trace, and the swashbuckler can get pb turns of bonus action blade ward (and aren't slowed by difficult terrain).
Thief and Fast Hands feels like it would be so iconic in a game like this. The Healer feat works well to make a pseudo healer that is always using the surroundings to benefit the party.
The swashbuckler combo was sick dont know how I didn't see it from the jump
I had an all rogue campaign that lasted over 10 years, all kinds of mayhem was involved. Starting in 1st edition it ended in the midst of 3.5. Keep up the Sage work, not to mention your top tier campaign.
I played a party where I was a bard and the one other player was a druid. Every single part of the campaign we were able to stealth through it. The campaign was supposed to be longer but we only ended up having a single combat and finished the entire campaign in seven sessions. We did a stealth speedrun haha. I DO sort of feel bad for the DM because he had some interesting encounters planned, but we were just like "okay, its invisible rat time."
this is why i love shadowrun, i think it is an excellent system for something like this. shadowrun is absolutely my fav ttrpg ive played so far
DMed for it and it was awesome.
It was only two players but it was still great.
I was going to DM a one shot for two of my players when we knew the other player couldn’t make it. I had a plan but when both players (without talking to each other or me) came to me with a rogue character. I dropped all of my plans and immediately started planning a heist. The characters made it in and out of the heist without ever being seen and killed the BBEG Archwarlock without the Warlock ever getting a turn. It was incredible. If I remember correctly it was an Assassins and a Soul Knife.
The soul knife absolutely used their psychic abilities to the fullest neither character ever spoke out loud.
The often underrated thief would be a necessity in this group. Fast hands combined with the healer feat makes them a combat medic, not to mention already being a controller with caltrops and ball bearings. Once they reach 13th level, they can start using all the class/race specific goodies the party has stolen(holy avenger backstab!) as well as being the best scroll casters in the game.
I would love an all-kobold, all-rogue party one-shot!
Love stuff like this. One of my favorite “Rogue” like shows is Leverage( Hitter, Hacker, Grifter, Thief, Mastermind ). I have 2 straight Rogues. ( Assassin Lvl 4 and Phantom Lvl 8) and one Multi Class. ( Rogue 5, Bard 3 )
This concept excites me so much! But I have to say, Blades in the Dark is an experience O recommend to everyone.
Scout might be an option too. 2 more expertise and 13th level feature is an easy source of advantage first round. Oh, and what about an all kobold party for this? Draconic cry for lots of advantage, and kobold legacy to get everyone green flame blade (except soul knife who takes friends). All of a sudden crowds aren't as much of an issue. Also you could totally do the 3 kobolds in a trench coat thing
One thing I took from bauldrs gate 3 is the thief rogues ability to take a second bonus action.
how to bump magical support on a rogue: play arcane trickster, and play a dragonmarked race to expand the spell list, and take feats that give spells.
Yeah having them operate as part of a guild would probably be the best way to fill up any gaps, have an Artificer like Q from James Bond who just makes cool stuff for the Rogues to use, be it infusions, scrolls, or potions, maybe a caster to cast some long-lasting spells on them before they go which also adds time pressure to the heist, a bard guild leader who can give them all a bardic Inspiration as part of the planning (fudge the duration so it lasts 10 mins from the start of the mission), and a medic to patch them up when they get back, for healing you can also have the Healer feat obviously but also the Inspiring Leader feat for the swashbuckler for a bunch of TempHP.
There's also the rarely used Assassin 9th level feature that lets them develop a cover identity, great for infiltration, being the guy on the inside posing as a guard.
Interesting concept for a stealth character to get XP for avoiding combat. So they need devices or strategies for creating scenarios for stealth multiple times in a confrontation. For instance they have smoke bombs or other distraction techniques to regain the ability to hide, get away, or sneak attack.
Leverage is also a great example of an Oops! All Rogues! party in media
A Feat I would consider would also be Eldritch Adept. Rogues do have that extra ASI/Feat at lvl10 which I would give consideration towards that Feat. Even with just one Invocation, Eldritch Sight gives Detect Magic all the time, Mask of Many Faces gives unlimited Disguise Self, heck even Devil's Sight fixes the 1 guy who didn't take a race with Darkvision. Yes the options are limited for non-Warlocks, but they are still strong
getting to level 10 is not that easy if they only have single target burst damage
The Eldritch Adept feat has as a prerequisite either the 'Spellcasting' or 'Pact Magic' class feature, so all of the Rogues would have to multiclass to take it except for the Arcane Trickster.
Arcane Trickster can be the charismatic one as well, if you play Kenku, you can mimic voices perfectly and with disguise self, you're golden
Also, the Phantom rogue is a monster at multi enemy damage
(Before Watching)
My choice of subclasses would be:
-Swashbuckler: This is the party face and closest thing to a frontline a rogue can be since it can impose disadvantage on a target.
-Arcane Trickster: You need spells, he has spells, and invisible mage hand shennanigans are good to have
-Soulknife: Baked-in multi-target damage with their bonus attack psychic blade throw, telepathey for the whole party, and a bunch of other psychic goodies
-Scout or Phantom: These are the skill monkey-est skill monkeys to plug up holes in the party. Take Scout if you wanna be extra monkey for exploration, take Phantom if you need more AoE damage.