What a fantastic video! I’ve got a good sized collection of 78’s some BBC boxed sets bought for pennies and even on a poor setup, they sound amazing...if I were to do what you’ve done, I think they would sound utterly superb! Thanks for sharing
First things First, get a 78 needle, not a narrow thin modern needle, otherwise it'll sound all hissy as the tiny needle slides about in the larger 78 groove
I've made transfers using a small stylus and got good results by raising the left side of the turntable 2-3 inches and at 5 grams with a lot of antiskate find the sweet spot on the outside of the groove to make awsum noise reduced transfer form worn 78's.
You can find true-mono cartridges and needles pretty easily online, but I can see that your stereo ones with a good enough tracking power and the good shape can be really efficient.
I use a Stanton 500 with three size needle tips! My 3.0 is the VERY Best for My 78`s! Including EDISON! Strangely by accident I found out I get the best play for EDISON DD Records with one of the cartridge wires removed! So I put a switch on My turntable that I turn off when I want to Play a EDISON, Or a Pathe`! I had to make a Needle for Pathe` Records by using a sapphire ball that was on a rusted shank and a needle clip that was poor! Just Super glued the little fella on the needle shank, And it plays these records very well! LOVE This Video!
hi , love your video , as a man in his late eighties with a small collection of 78 s without a way of playing them i'm interested the player you demonstrated , in the old days we used individual needles that had to be changed after you had played six or eight records as the point of the needle would lose it's shape , happy days ,
If you want budget, quality, and insane reliability, check out Califone record players. I’ve had mine for a few years now, it has a flip side stylus, one side plays 33 and 45, and the other side plays 78, (it’s a dual .1 mil and a .3 mil) it has speeds 16,33,45,78 and it has a adjustable weight and some form of auto anti skate. The 1130k (mine) has 8’ speakers (I believe, they’re rather big) that are part of the case and detach when ready for use. It has adjustable treble, bass (can be turned off to improve sound of a acoustic recorded 78) and in total weighs about 25 lbs. the buff is the amp and all sound hardware is built in. And it gets extremely loud.
I uploaded record video of my attempt to remaster a record (the quality of the digital was goofed up, but you can get a idea for the sound) I’ll try again soon and not mess with the audio. So far the only downside to the player is the fact that if a phone is brought close, the WiFi makes feedback through the speakers and when idling it emits a soft hum from the speakers (it’s solid state, what do ya expect). Other than that I’d say it tops the player in this video! Granted there are more options for the one in the video (cartridges I mean) the Califone is definitely more bang for he buck. I bought mine for 40 bucks and I got 2000$ sound! I personally believe it is made for 33s. It loves to play them and they sound more than exceptional. And if taken care of, they’ll never break.
i have one of these turntables. you can adjust the pitch from +/- 10% 20% and 50%. on 50% you can adjust the speed from 1] 16.66rpm to 50rpm on the 33.33rpm setting 2] 22.5 rpm to 67.5rpm on 45rpm setting and 3] 39rpm to 117rpm on the 78rpm setting [any speed you like between 16.66rpm and 117rpm]. if you have any 16rpm records you can play them on this.
Observation: Your cartridge may need to be moved back for correct alignment. Generally, the stylus tip should be directly under the leading edge of the headshell. They design them as such to make it easier for people to get the lateral geometry close to perfect. Not as important with very forgiving 78s, but doesn't hurt to get it right. You'll notice much better anti-skating tendencies.
You ignore the problem of equalization. If you play a 78 through a preamplifier with RIAA equalization, you will get a high end that is severely rolled off and an accentuated low end. This is because LP and 45 RPM records are recorded on lathes that reduce the low end and accentuate the high end. the reduced lows allow more grooves while allowing the stylus to stay in the groove. The highs are accentuated to cover the surface noise that is present in all record materials, even vinyl. The equalization allows the playback to be in proper perspective, 78s were recorded with almost no high boost, and much less low frequency reduction. You ccan buy control units that have the pre RIAA curves, such as AES, NAB and RCA, but they are expensive and hard to find. My quick'n'dirty solution is to use the tone controls to turn down the bass enough to get rid of the "tubby" sound, and increase the trouble until you get back the sizzle on the cymbals and the "bite" in the brass and the shimmer on the violins. You will not find a 78 that has much high frequency content above 5000 Hz, so a little application of tone controls will give you a sound similar to a solid AM radio station, and give you back a proper sonic perspective. By the way, I use a Shure M44, and I track it at 3 grams, and I don't have trouble with groove jumping, even in 78s with cracks in them. This is not intended as criticism, just as additional information. Thanks a lot for a good job of posting. .
Excellent video Matthew - how refreshing to hear your advice on cartridges for 78rpm. It stands to reason that the cartridge will reproduce whatever it is presented with - therefore if it is fitted with a stylus designed to play 78rpm you're sorted. There's too much jargon these days about equalisation, elliptical, spherical and the rest. I use Shure cartridges that are 40+ years old fitted with 78rpm stylii. They are fitted to modern day and latter day turntables and wired for mono with the tracking adjusted accordingly - and that's it. The results I achieve are as good as any I have heard elsewhere. Keep up the good work.!
THe Shure M44-7 is a VERY old pickup, and is STILL being made. I play 78's with one, along with an N44-3 stulus. It is colored GREEN, which makes me think they are 2.5 mil tips. As long as the front of the cartridge is not dragging on the record, you can continue to increase pressure until the surface noise reaches an acceptable level.
I'm using a techniques sl 1200g ,AT 95E there are 3 different stylus widths including 3 mil for 78's . There are some newer 78's that use the same groove width as LP's .
I have recently learned that acoustic gramophones track at like 130 grams so 6 is way lighter! Perhaps a bit on the heavy side for vinyl even despite the initial spec listed for vinyl being 6 grams and I have seen 1960s instructions say to track no heavier than 10 grams but for shellac 78s 6 is certainly not too bad. I finally got some 78s myself this weekend as part of Record Store Day after discovering my favorite local record store has a small 78 section so I got 6 78s including a Disney album on 3 records. Now that I have my SL-1210GR and a 3 mil stylus for my Nagaoka MP-110 on the way, I'll be all set!
Great video. But I just want to point out the two Grado’s you mentioned can track 2 - 5 grams. 78c is conical & the 78e is elliptical. Both are setup as mono internally. I have the 78c. Enjoy your records!
I have the exact same turntable (Newmark TTX). It is the perfect turntable for the "78" records and you can play the early 'speed 80' Columbia's and Brunswick's etc. at the exact speed by tweaking the variable speed control to about +2.6%. Also being magnetically driven, you don't transfer noise (rumble) from a synchronous motor as on some other decks.
Hey glad to hear another ttx user for 78 rpm. Very true about the speed control. I transferred a pathe centre start disc using this turntable that was about 90rpm!
I have a newer turntable with a radio and two small loudspeakers (radiogram). It plays all kind of records ok. The 78rpm are my favourit records. Take it easy and have fun.
Wow this is fascinating! Did anyone hear a considerable wow and flutter as the pich was lowered on the second recording? I recently started listening to LPs again. Long story!
Very nice! I recently ordered a 78rpm stylus for my ION Photon LP turntable and I can't wait to play them. I just a whole bunch of 78 from an estate sale and after giving them a good deep cleaning, I was shocked to see that MOST of them are in MINT condition - some of them don't look like they've ever been played!
By the way, my turntable is a Garrard 301. My 78 RPM cartridge is mounted in a Thorens TP 13A arm. I wish I had one like yours with the flexible speed adjustment that would allow playing those way old off standard records. I use 2 arms on the Garrard and switch between them depending on what I am playing. Thanks for posting!
My musical taste is pretty diverse as well. It ranges from things like "Mars, Bringer of War", by Gustav Holst, "Do You Believe In Magic" by The Lovin' Spoonful, "Mr. Blue Sky" by Electric Light Orchestra, "Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)" by Journey, "Thriller" by Michael Jackson, "Super Rad!" by The Aquabats, "Blue (Da Ba Dee)" by Eiffel 65, "Zombie" by The Cranberries, "Gangnam Style" by Psy, and of course "Everything Is Awesome!!!" by Tegan and Sara. In fact, my interest in vinyl allows me to branch out with music albums and artists, which is not something I usually do otherwise.
Sam Wittsell my taste is 1890-1935. Pretty much all of it. From operatic Caruso recordings to Jimmie Rodgers, id say I have quite differing tastes. However I don't care too much for records after 1935. Big band sound isn't one I like too much. Everything after I don't care too much for, however.
I modified my Harman Kardon Rabco ST-7 linear tracker for 78 (set it on 45, flip a switch I added). I'm using a Shure M91 Hi-Track with a 2.7 mil stylus for 78s. Works great.
Nice to see you discovered 78's, nice also that you are able to get a sound from that equipment, but! You'l be amazed when you discover the true sound quality hidden between the grooves and how youre sound can come alive instead of that nosy, flat, lack of bass, lack of dynamic if you use the correct equipment. You need a heavyer arm, a heavy proper true mono cartridge and matching compliance between pickup and arm. Then you need a preamp with equalisation curves for old records, there were more than 30 different before RIAA was invented. Old corrections and early "compressors" had components that is phase shifting at the master recording and also that is corrected back in a proper preamp, computer equalisation doesent do that. Correct crossover point between constant velocity and constant amplitude is important. And so on. playing 78 are far more complicated than you first think but they have higer dynamic db range than a CD, over 100 db range and low frequency can be measured down to 10-15 hz...if played with correct equipment. Cost is not an issue, you can find most stuff collecting dust at fleemarkets. Thrust me, a 50 year old Astatic or GE mono cartridge is far better than all new stuff in the market, including all you mention, with some exemption, extremely expensive Ortofon or Japaneese hand made cartridges.
Hey mate. This is an old video. Check out my other uploads of direct transfers with this turntable and cylinders - you'll be amazed at the 1930s filmophone 78s. Leave a cement
Thanks for making this video. In the past I had dismissed these Numark turntables because they looked rather flimsy in photos (and some of Numark's entry-level turntables are indeed very lightweight)... but a friend told me about his TTX and I was amazed at how heavy and substantial it is. He needed to sell it, so I bought it from him. I've been very pleasantly surprised by it. I think this will prove to be substantially easier than refurbishing a 50 year old turntable, which had been my previous plan for listening to 78s. :)
maineboy1979 the ttx really is a beast. Maybe the best 78 table in some respects - I wish there were a higher end option that not only improved on the build quality but also retained a lot the flexibility and functionality - alas, it really is a one of a kind table. 10 years with mine already
Very enjoyable video. It helps to see what another collector of 78's has done to get the most out of his records.... A few years ago I found a set of truncated elliptical stylii for the Stanton 500. There was a 1.0 mil for worn lp's and two others for 78's, 3.0 and 3.3 mil. The degree to which these stylii reduce noise and increase frequency response is quite surprising. You might be able to get something similar from Expert Stylus in the U.K. I use them only for copying 78's into my computer. I have Technics direct drive turntables to which I've added 78 rpm. Very satisfactory. Btw, I love the British dance orchestra records you played!
Hey Lawrence! Glad you liked the video. Wow a technics with 78rpm! You are very lucky to have those different size stylus. They are very expensive and I am sure they make a difference. I need to treat myself for one of those 3.3mil ellipticals. What type of records do you collect? I will eventually upload those 78s that I featured in the video. Greetings from the uk. Matthew
Good video! I must say as a fellow collector of 78s for about 10 years now, a great introduction to proper 78 rpm playback to those just getting into the hobby--you know your onions!! I didn't know the TTx could do 78 w/ variable pitch, that'll have to be the replacement for my old 3-speed Garrard SynchroLab 65B autochanger with Shure N91ED cartridge (with 3 mil 78 stylus of course)-my current 78-capable turntable. A bit dated and limited (I mostly use it with a .7 mil stylus for listening to my LPs and 45s) , but plays 78s well!
The gramophone company record with the transcribing angel on the center. Was that their label before they obtained the HMV name with the nipper dog looking into the horn? The reason why I'm asking is because I have a Berliner Gramophone made in Canada for European markets. Its a type GT. Gramophone. The T stands for a type G but with a rear mount bracket and taper arm style tonearm. this was Canadas first rear mount model from 1907. ( Even though the states Victor models had them till 1903.). On the bottom it has a faded yellow paper label with the transcribing angel on it. The metal tag is a Berliner HMV with the Serial number on it as well. what year did the Gramophone company obtain the nipper logo?
I don't entirely agree about tracking force as I've gotten good results at 3 grams or less. I also have a record that loops at more than 2 on my turntable but then the ounces on my gramophone don't have that issue. One cartridge that ticks all the boxes of having 3 mils, heavier tracking, and being true mono is the Audio-Technica VM670SP. The Grado 78C/78E is also rated for heavier tracking than standard LP Grado cartridges (2-5 grams) which I am getting so I can have a true mono cartridge since my Nagaoka MP-110/78 combo is a stereo cartridge and highlights more surface noise due to reading verticality. The Audio-Technica AT-MONO3SP is a high-output moving coil cartridge with a recommended 5 grams but it has a 2.5 mil stylus. Someday I might try the Ortofon SPU CG 65 MkII which has a recommended 4 grams, 2.5 mil, and is also incredibly high-mass so it's a good thing I have the auxiliary weights for my SL-1210GR. Different conditions of 78s require a range of styli from 2.5 to 4 mil but 3 mil is a good all-rounder. Of course your opinion is your opinion and I have heard good results on many 2.5 mil styli.
The Shure M78S carts track at 2.0g to 2.5g which is quite adequate for the records, and they're really quite good. Plus, they're wired for monophonic sound, unlike your Stanton. Also, they come standard with a 2.5mil stylus, which is what you should be using on electrically recorded shellac discs. The 3mill stylus really should only be used on acoustically recorded discs and heavily worn electrics. Using a 3mill on an electric isn't going to hurt it, played at the proper force (6g really *is* too much,) but you're not getting all the sound possible with that wide a stylus. I say you should get an M78S, dedicate that to your 78s... and keep the 500 for your good stereo vinyl.
***** Thanks for your comments. I have had experience with the cart you mention. 2.5mil would be best for late 40s 1950s 78s as the groove is smaller than older records. Also, the shure m78 is just bridged with a strap to get mono (this would be the same as pressing a mono button on an amplifier etc) removing the strap on m78 will make it a stereo cartridge. For general playback of normal 78s I have the Stanton in mono. Here is a video of a transfer I have made using this setup, you'll notice surface noise is much quieter than if I had used 2.5mil (note that not one size fits all for 78s, a 2.5mil might work better on certain records than other sizes): ua-cam.com/video/_UEjqApj-Wk/v-deo.html
I would they record stereo, decrackle and declick both channels separately and mix them after. On the other hand, Edison Diamond Discs need stereo to get it's sound by using the difference of both stereo channels
+Rob F great comment. This is the same process you describe that I go through when I am transferring vertical cut recordings. There is a lot of processing that can be done with a raw stereo transfer, and then creating a mono version after
Nice video. The cantilever of the stylus dictates the tracking weight too. To much weight on a 78 stylus will prevent it from performing well if the cantilever is flexed upwards into the cartridge. In severe cases the cartridge may contact the record. Styli come with recommended weight values too.
denbydish very well saidm completely agree. The replacement styli I have taken about 4grans no problem. The few I have for an m44 is much lighter (just over 2 grans). Anymore than that and it would bottom out as you describe
Very cool that turntable has such a wide range of speeds. I want to modify a technics 1200 to play 78's, but I don't know how much range the fader would have for changing speeds.
Andy! Thanks mate. This is a very old video now (was filmed in my kitchen!) I still use the numark turntable and have a Stanton 500 fitted to it. I bet that numark pro TT Is a great one for 78s too. I wanted to look out for a Stanton st150 deck but prices here have gone crazy! Regards Matthew
Thanks for posting this. Very helpful. I have quite a collection of 78's but no method of playing them and was thinking a modern turntable would be great.
Glad it helped in some way any questions feel free to ask. A good modern turntable at the moment is the audio technica atpl 120. It does 78rpm and a very well built unit
Hey there. Is your gtafonola a upright cabinet model! Glad you liked the body's. There is nothing wrong with playing 78s on a acoustic machine. This is a modern alternative. I have many phonograph cylinders of ads jones. Do you have 78s of her? We don't have victor records or see many of her 78s here in the uk, she was born in oldham Lancashire in the uk and moved to us when she was a young girl. Thanks for watching
I can hear a lot of hiss from the record. I am not sure you need to get the needle deep into the grove, as that's where all the debris etc. is. I have Stanton 500 with an after market needle for 78s. I find it sounds better at 2 grams. If you increase the weight i find the cantilever is bending and the cartridge is almost touching the record! Not sure you are correct about tracking heavily for better sound.
denbydish please check out my other uploads of a direct recordings I have made. This was quickly filmed with a mobile phone. The direct recordings will give a much better example.
I found the slower speed was so much better with the materials the disc is made from. It's very noisy at 78, less so at 45, and with some filters, almost silent.
Hi Matthew, very excellent video. I converted a Pioneer PL2 direct drive to play 78s and it's OK but the pitch control only goes +/- 3 or 4% maybe. So I can play old batwing Victors and 80rpm Columbias and they sound pretty good. But I'd be stuck having to do pitch shifting in the PC if I had a Pathe fastie. Oh well, what I really wanted to say was that I agree with you about the Stanton 500. I am running exactly what you are in my Pioneer at 4 grams...sounds beautiful indeed! Take care & thanks for the video!
Hey Michael. It's great to hear what other people use to play 78rpm records. That modification sounds like a brilliant idea. I feel the Stanton cartridge is really rugged and 4g is no problem for 78s. Tracks really well. Regards Matthew
Thanks for the reply Matthew. I should've said my Pioneer TT was a PL4, not a PL2. My mistake! What sort of preamp or amp are you running your Numark into? -MM
Most interesting and infomative video Matthew - a chap after my own heart !.Could you please tell me the title of the Imperial 78 you are playing - possibly by Jack Payne - keep up the good work !
5:34 It is possible when that record was cut the electric motor was geared at 60 Hz and in Europe it's 50 Hz. Doing some calculations like 50 Hz divided by 60 Hz then multiplied by 78 RPM the result is 65 RPM which is close to what you said at 68 RPM.
+bobskie321 That's not the case. These G&T's were recorded at whatever speed the engineer (Fred Gaisberg, in the case of this Caruso disc) happened to set the recorder's speed governor to that day. 78.26rpm wasn't established as any kind of standard until the 1920's, and there are actually very few discs from the first 50 years of records that were indeed intended to be played at 78rpm.
Very interesting an informative video Matthew.A chap after my own heart !.I have been collecting records and the devices that played them it seems all my life.Reproducing 78s on modern equipment has always been dissapointing, which I had always guessed down to the ' unsuitable ' cartridge as indeed the case, a Shure M95ED with 78 stylus and am going to look into finding the Stanton you have demonstrated to great effect.Just proves how good the recordings were in their prime more than 80 years ago .By the way, what is the title of the Imperial record and is it Jack Payne ?.It's been going round in my head for days !.By the way, I think the 8" E-B Radios were actually 80r.p.m.I had an E-B Electron portable and the speed control had an 80 reference mark.Keep up the good work !.
Alright ....how do those old records sound so fantastic? You must have a record cleaning machine, or you are Dorian Grey. All said I never thought of picking up a Stanton DJ table for 78's. However you make a strong case for that idea. This was one of the most fun UA-cam posts ever! thanks!
hey I am glad you enjoyed the video. a Stanton deck would be very good. check out Broadway melody 78rpm on my channel for a direct sound.I clean records by hand (don't have a cleaning machine) thanks for your kind words
On the right Equipment the Bass on 78's can Cave Your Chest In better than any Format can Produce today. Listen to a Dedicated 78 Jukebox and the Pounding bass will be Better than even the Top End Hi-Fi can do. And these were recorded In the 1930's 40's but they Sound like they were Recorded Yesterday. They are also Cheap as Chips to get hold of and there are some Real Gems to be Discovered.
That arm is far to light therefore the bad sound. Try a heavier tone arm, a true mono cartridge that can handle the massive energy and you will discover a new dimension of the 78's. They can sound amazing! They also have surprisingly good low frequency, with correct equipment, that is.
7:38 I thought you were saying Popeye records but then figured out you were saying Pathe because they had weird speeds. They had a giant 20 inch record 120 RPM
That's true. I think I said something like 68rpm some carusos were at, it varies. This piece Aida is in b flat,band when played back at 78rpm it is in c major which is incorrect. So I slowed the speed 10% and got it to b flat (the key Caruso and what the piece should be in)
Wet chips and the more robust nature of the materials used in older records (?) withstanding, won't you damage the groove if you play it at the wrong speed ? Is there a transcription technology that uses lasers i.e. non-contact reading of the record ? That would avoid adding further damage to these old records before asttempting digital transcription.
ua-cam.com/video/YHybrGmj6M0/v-deo.html What I have been saying is that you are almost there but it is slightly off. It is on the right key, but only with modern A=440Hz tuning - the piano used in this session appears to have been tuned at A=435Hz.
transformingArt if only we could be a fly on the wall in the studio. The figure You mention is one drawn up by an opinion on average of the overall g&t recordings,. I'm probably off by 1rpm !:) There was that many variables, nothing is documented in writing on the tuning of the piano, the speed the engineer had set the cutting lathe (it did vary) etc. It's fascinating the different tunings as you mentioned concert pitch, which wasn't standardized until around 1940 (I'm a piano tuner technician by trade and it's a fascinating subject)! We have surviving tuning forks and documentation of a = 452hz! (Which is high!) Of tuning here in the UK. Amazing that there wasn't a standard back then we're so used to the modern system
I shouldn't have said that it is "way too fast" - I am sorry if you felt that I am nitpicking you for this. It still sounds somewhat fast to me, as Caruso's voice sounds a bit too nasal to my ears even at 70rpm, but of course, we will never know it for 100 percent sure, as you described. (And yes, I do know about variable concert pitches from the period) I liked the rest of the video (as well as all the others), and I really wish you will keep up the good work.
After viewing your fine video on 78s I put together the following Numark Pro TT2, Numark Headshell, Stanton 500 Gold cartridge, pfanstiel 3 mill stylus. Got a hum, so removed the ground strap as directed from the left ground/blue pin. Still have the hum... turntable is grounded to the receiver. Hum is on the right channel ...if red input is unplugged from receiver stops as also does if balance is switched to the right. Used turntable and cartridge supposeably never used ...1 of 2 pack. Any ideas? Also cartridge seems to just clear the record when playing. How did you adjust your tone arm height?
Update on hum issue...ended up returning for refund TT2, but at the same time from the same seller (Guitar Center) ordered another from Warwick, RI. Being that these are not that prevalent I considered that good luck. I understand the TT2 preceded the TTX in the video...no TTX units available. Bad thing is the dust cover, that I didn’t know was coming with the unit was shattered at one of the hinges in transit. And when I connected it I still had the hum. However the ground wire in the RCA cluster had been clipped midway and a bit unsheathed....after patching a length of wire from that point to my amplifiers phono ground the hum was eliminated. I thought at first inspection that perhaps the previous owner had soldered the ground internally to the RCA ground as I had seen on another video.
The hum on the returned unit was on the red/right channel whereas the hum I was able to remedy on the replacement was on the white/left channel. The replacement unit was in much better condition than the original as far as aesthetics.
I have been fascinated by your video and have gone to look for your recommended Stanton 500 series cartridges only to find them no longer avilable. I have looked at the Shure M447 range, but they are rather expensive. Before I go ahead and buy one, do you have any other ideas as to what i can use please? I have an Audio Technics ATLP 120 and a spare headshell. The rest is up to you! Please offer me some advice; it will be valued. Looking forward to hearing from you. Many thanks.
There's a zillion of them on the used market. Many DJs used them. The Pickering equivalent (identical cartridge, same company), is the NP-AC. Also a bunch of them on the secondary market.
Hi, nice video. As you explained, pity the recording was was not a little better sound. It’s a bit of a misnomer to call the shelac recordings 78s (yes, I know collectors call them that), when as you stated the Enric Caruso was not a 78! Early records could have a speed of anywhere between 60 and 130 rpm. It was until around the 1930s when all records were standardised to 78rpm. The Caruso record was 1902, does it have the speed written on the label or did you just work out what speed it should be? Keep up the good work.
@@maximilianfischer8899 Cheers, I have been reading up on other forums etc about this. I found it was due to there being no common tolerances across the various recording, manufacturing equipment. I found that early Caruso records were typically 68 to 70 rpm. It's a bit bonkers really, but nonetheless quite interesting. I just don't really have the room for 78s on top of my vinyl collection, otherwise it would be a rabbit hole I would never come out of. Thanks for explaining, I just didn't realise that 78s were recorded with such variable speeds.
The old G&T (Gramophone and Typewriter ) records were mostly recorded at around 68 rpm. But because of the spring driven Turntable, the speed was never exactly right
Check out my other uploads. I can assure you it is the correct equalisation. With the acoustic recorded records there are no rules :). Caruso didn't have a microphone let alone any way to adjust EQ ;)
Hey there. I checked the key and it is b flat the correct key as the Caruso recording. If only we knew at first hand the exact speed the original was recorded at. All. Of what we say now is an assumption
Unlike other tenors, Caruso had lower voice. I would compare it to barito-tenor. I have three of recordings and know how they should sound. Here it sounds like the voice of a young boy not fully developed singer. Listen Celeste Aida on UA-cam and compare it with his other performances. You will see that his voice is much lower than Pavarotti's or Juan Diego Flores.
@@johnfalstaff2270 but how do you know that the playback speed is correct on those uploads? Only way is to e travel I'm afraid now you notice how I say that Aida is in B flat, but what about concert pitch that standardised in 1940 it could have been anything back then Caruso'sid change. If you listen to an example from when he first started recording to the very last you will hear his voice is more darker sounding. It'll be coming up to 100 years soon. Frightening.
How old are you. I collected recordings from Russia on Melodya, from Czech Republic on Supraphon and couple of all records from Italy already in 1960's. If you insist your speed is correct then you do not know Caruso's voice. What you presented here I heard the first time. Caruso never had such high boyish sound. Listen other records and not only Aida. I know, several years ago Berliner, the inventor of flat discs did not established standard rpms. So, specialists and music fans used their staff to transfer old discs to new 33 and some to 45 rpm. This not correct what you think. At the beginning, his voice was higher. I know, but never that high. Recording of Aida he made in 1904, 1905, 1908 and the best is from 1912. The last one is perfect and nobody sang it better. Even Mario del Monaco.
I have not stated that the speed I am playing back this Caruso record is 100% fact. It all boils down to an opinion. I am a classically trained scholar of musicand I'm 30 years old I've been collecting since I was 7 and own many of the g&t carusos including the half a cylinder. the member of staff with transferred these records and I've stated their opinions. We will never know how Mozart or Chopin played. We could even say we'll never know how Caruso fully sounded due to The Acoustic recording system. Those members of staff you mention have their own opinion also. Have you noticed when HMV did those electric Recreation recordings of Caruso in the 1930s? Now some of them in my mind were issued at various speeds?
Hey there the artists on the imperial 78 is 'wandering' by jack Payne and his orchestra. And the 8 inch Edison bell radio record is 'don't be like that' vocal by phill Arnold with Harry Hudson and his band. Glad you liked them. I'll upload full versions of them on my channel
5:59 Your turntable has a pitch that can go 50% which means it can play a 16⅔ RPM records by setting the speed at 33⅓ RPM with pitch -50%.
mine hav 4 speds and a pitch control
@@timsundell9820 bit late but what speeds does your player have?
@@zimtheailen1919 most likely, it’s 16, 33, 45, and 78. Those are the ones most turntables have
yep
@@F59PHI 16 2/3 records are pretty rare so don’t miss the opportunity to buy
What a fantastic video! I’ve got a good sized collection of 78’s some BBC boxed sets bought for pennies and even on a poor setup, they sound amazing...if I were to do what you’ve done, I think they would sound utterly superb! Thanks for sharing
Sounds like the ballroom music from The Shining.
wow i was just thinking that !
“Midnight, the Stars and You” is the Shining song.
First things First, get a 78 needle, not a narrow thin modern needle, otherwise it'll sound all hissy as the tiny needle slides about in the larger 78 groove
Albert Tatlock this is what I am using a .3 mil stylus. Check out my other videos to hear a direct transfer. This was filmed in my kitchen!
I've made transfers using a small stylus and got good results by raising the left side of the turntable 2-3 inches and at 5 grams with a lot of antiskate find the sweet spot on the outside of the groove to make awsum noise reduced transfer form worn 78's.
@@matthewrichards88 It's not a .3 mil it's 3 mil. The microgroove is .7 mil.
All green Stanton are 78s
@@michaelshultz2540 Very interesting. I do it by putting a penny on the left side of the stylus and tying a helium balloon on the right side.
You can find true-mono cartridges and needles pretty easily online, but I can see that your stereo ones with a good enough tracking power and the good shape can be really efficient.
I use a Stanton 500 with three size needle tips! My 3.0 is the VERY Best for My 78`s! Including EDISON! Strangely by accident I found out I get the best play for EDISON DD Records with one of the cartridge wires removed! So I put a switch on My turntable that I turn off when I want to Play a EDISON, Or a Pathe`! I had to make a Needle for Pathe` Records by using a sapphire ball that was on a rusted shank and a needle clip that was poor! Just Super glued the little fella on the needle shank, And it plays these records very well! LOVE This Video!
hi , love your video , as a man in his late eighties with a small collection of 78 s without a way of playing them i'm interested the player you demonstrated , in the old days we used individual needles that had to be changed after you had played six or eight records as the point of the needle would lose it's shape , happy days ,
thought it was only 2 sides
If you want budget, quality, and insane reliability, check out Califone record players. I’ve had mine for a few years now, it has a flip side stylus, one side plays 33 and 45, and the other side plays 78, (it’s a dual .1 mil and a .3 mil) it has speeds 16,33,45,78 and it has a adjustable weight and some form of auto anti skate. The 1130k (mine) has 8’ speakers (I believe, they’re rather big) that are part of the case and detach when ready for use. It has adjustable treble, bass (can be turned off to improve sound of a acoustic recorded 78) and in total weighs about 25 lbs. the buff is the amp and all sound hardware is built in. And it gets extremely loud.
I uploaded record video of my attempt to remaster a record (the quality of the digital was goofed up, but you can get a idea for the sound) I’ll try again soon and not mess with the audio. So far the only downside to the player is the fact that if a phone is brought close, the WiFi makes feedback through the speakers and when idling it emits a soft hum from the speakers (it’s solid state, what do ya expect). Other than that I’d say it tops the player in this video! Granted there are more options for the one in the video (cartridges I mean) the Califone is definitely more bang for he buck. I bought mine for 40 bucks and I got 2000$ sound! I personally believe it is made for 33s. It loves to play them and they sound more than exceptional. And if taken care of, they’ll never break.
i have one of these turntables. you can adjust the pitch from +/- 10% 20% and 50%. on 50% you can adjust the speed from 1] 16.66rpm to 50rpm on the 33.33rpm setting 2] 22.5 rpm to 67.5rpm on 45rpm setting and 3] 39rpm to 117rpm on the 78rpm setting [any speed you like between 16.66rpm and 117rpm]. if you have any 16rpm records you can play them on this.
You can also adjust it +/- 8% by pushing in and holding the pitch button. I keep it at that setting, it's a bit more precise.
Observation: Your cartridge may need to be moved back for correct alignment. Generally, the stylus tip should be directly under the leading edge of the headshell. They design them as such to make it easier for people to get the lateral geometry close to perfect. Not as important with very forgiving 78s, but doesn't hurt to get it right. You'll notice much better anti-skating tendencies.
Cartrodge*
Music starts at 3:25
The hero we need
You ignore the problem of equalization. If you play a 78 through a preamplifier with RIAA equalization, you will get a high end that is severely rolled off and an accentuated low end. This is because LP and 45 RPM records are recorded on lathes that reduce the low end and accentuate the high end. the reduced lows allow more grooves while allowing the stylus to stay in the groove. The highs are accentuated to cover the surface noise that is present in all record materials, even vinyl. The equalization allows the playback to be in proper perspective, 78s were recorded with almost no high boost, and much less low frequency reduction. You ccan buy control units that have the pre RIAA curves, such as AES, NAB and RCA, but they are expensive and hard to find. My quick'n'dirty solution is to use the tone controls to turn down the bass enough to get rid of the "tubby" sound, and increase the trouble until you get back the sizzle on the cymbals and the "bite" in the brass and the shimmer on the violins. You will not find a 78 that has much high frequency content above 5000 Hz, so a little application of tone controls will give you a sound similar to a solid AM radio station, and give you back a proper sonic perspective. By the way, I use a Shure M44, and I track it at 3 grams, and I don't have trouble with groove jumping, even in 78s with cracks in them. This is not intended as criticism, just as additional information. Thanks a lot for a good job of posting. .
I should have mentioned EQ. I bypass the built in phno stage on the turntable. Regards
Excellent video Matthew - how refreshing to hear your advice on cartridges for 78rpm. It stands to reason that the cartridge will reproduce whatever it is presented with - therefore if it is fitted with a stylus designed to play 78rpm you're sorted. There's too much jargon these days about equalisation, elliptical, spherical and the rest. I use Shure cartridges that are 40+ years old fitted with 78rpm stylii. They are fitted to modern day and latter day turntables and wired for mono with the tracking adjusted accordingly - and that's it. The results I achieve are as good as any I have heard elsewhere.
Keep up the good work.!
Great advice finally! thanks for a true 78 lover.
THe Shure M44-7 is a VERY old pickup, and is STILL being made. I play 78's with one, along with an N44-3 stulus. It is colored GREEN, which makes me think they are 2.5 mil tips.
As long as the front of the cartridge is not dragging on the record, you can continue to increase pressure until the surface noise reaches an acceptable level.
hey there. I agree thr m44 7 is another great option and has great sound too
hey there. I agree thr m44 7 is another great option and has great sound too
Yes - thank the still significant market in India for keeping these devices alive.
I'm using a techniques sl 1200g ,AT 95E there are 3 different stylus widths including 3 mil for 78's . There are some newer 78's that use the same groove width as LP's .
I have recently learned that acoustic gramophones track at like 130 grams so 6 is way lighter! Perhaps a bit on the heavy side for vinyl even despite the initial spec listed for vinyl being 6 grams and I have seen 1960s instructions say to track no heavier than 10 grams but for shellac 78s 6 is certainly not too bad. I finally got some 78s myself this weekend as part of Record Store Day after discovering my favorite local record store has a small 78 section so I got 6 78s including a Disney album on 3 records. Now that I have my SL-1210GR and a 3 mil stylus for my Nagaoka MP-110 on the way, I'll be all set!
I love your acent oh my god! 😊 just i could listen to your voice for hours
jeremy lord lol! It's the Britton West Midlands accent coming out :)
Pressing 45 & 33 together gives you 78. . I've never seen that before. Amazing.
Great video. But I just want to point out the two Grado’s you mentioned can track 2 - 5 grams. 78c is conical & the 78e is elliptical. Both are setup as mono internally. I have the 78c. Enjoy your records!
For some reason a lot of sources I see claim both are conical.
I have the exact same turntable (Newmark TTX). It is the perfect turntable for the "78" records and you can play the early 'speed 80' Columbia's and Brunswick's etc. at the exact speed by tweaking the variable speed control to about +2.6%. Also being magnetically driven, you don't transfer noise (rumble) from a synchronous motor as on some other decks.
Hey glad to hear another ttx user for 78 rpm. Very true about the speed control. I transferred a pathe centre start disc using this turntable that was about 90rpm!
I have a newer turntable with a radio and two small loudspeakers (radiogram). It plays all kind of records ok.
The 78rpm are my favourit records. Take it easy and have fun.
Glenn Johnson Wish i had one of these turntables!Brilliant.
What an informative and enjoyable video....gives food for thought :-)
Wow this is fascinating! Did anyone hear a considerable wow and flutter as the pich was lowered on the second recording? I recently started listening to LPs again. Long story!
Or was it the singers vibrato?
Very nice! I recently ordered a 78rpm stylus for my ION Photon LP turntable and I can't wait to play them. I just a whole bunch of 78 from an estate sale and after giving them a good deep cleaning, I was shocked to see that MOST of them are in MINT condition - some of them don't look like they've ever been played!
Tell me you didn't use anything that had alcohol on it
By the way, my turntable is a Garrard 301. My 78 RPM cartridge is mounted in a Thorens TP 13A arm. I wish I had one like yours with the flexible speed adjustment that would allow playing those way old off standard records. I use 2 arms on the Garrard and switch between them depending on what I am playing. Thanks for posting!
My musical taste is pretty diverse as well. It ranges from things like "Mars, Bringer of War", by Gustav Holst, "Do You Believe In Magic" by The Lovin' Spoonful, "Mr. Blue Sky" by Electric Light Orchestra, "Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)" by Journey, "Thriller" by Michael Jackson, "Super Rad!" by The Aquabats, "Blue (Da Ba Dee)" by Eiffel 65, "Zombie" by The Cranberries, "Gangnam Style" by Psy, and of course "Everything Is Awesome!!!" by Tegan and Sara. In fact, my interest in vinyl allows me to branch out with music albums and artists, which is not something I usually do otherwise.
***** That's a fantastic diverse taste. I wish everyone could have a taste in music like that. The best way to be Enjoy it all :)
Sam Wittsell my taste is 1890-1935. Pretty much all of it. From operatic Caruso recordings to Jimmie Rodgers, id say I have quite differing tastes. However I don't care too much for records after 1935. Big band sound isn't one I like too much. Everything after I don't care too much for, however.
3:25 Sounds great even with you recording it on your phone!
It sounds fantastic especially with that imperial record !
you are very kind! :) by the way are you any connection with 78man? I see your channel name :)
No ,and thank you, for your kind words
I modified my Harman Kardon Rabco ST-7 linear tracker for 78 (set it on 45, flip a switch I added). I'm using a Shure M91 Hi-Track with a 2.7 mil stylus for 78s. Works great.
Nice video. As a kid I had an old wind-up phono and playback speed was easily adjustable so an off-speed record could be played very easily.
I did this a week ago on my channel with an old russian 78. It sounded amazing!
You Sound like an awesome lad. Thank you for the video.
Greetings from a brother over North, Denmark
Nice to see you discovered 78's, nice also that you are able to get a sound from that equipment, but! You'l be amazed when you discover the true sound quality hidden between the grooves and how youre sound can come alive instead of that nosy, flat, lack of bass, lack of dynamic if you use the correct equipment. You need a heavyer arm, a heavy proper true mono cartridge and matching compliance between pickup and arm. Then you need a preamp with equalisation curves for old records, there were more than 30 different before RIAA was invented. Old corrections and early "compressors" had components that is phase shifting at the master recording and also that is corrected back in a proper preamp, computer equalisation doesent do that. Correct crossover point between constant velocity and constant amplitude is important. And so on. playing 78 are far more complicated than you first think but they have higer dynamic db range than a CD, over 100 db range and low frequency can be measured down to 10-15 hz...if played with correct equipment. Cost is not an issue, you can find most stuff collecting dust at fleemarkets. Thrust me, a 50 year old Astatic or GE mono cartridge is far better than all new stuff in the market, including all you mention, with some exemption, extremely expensive Ortofon or Japaneese hand made cartridges.
Hey mate. This is an old video. Check out my other uploads of direct transfers with this turntable and cylinders - you'll be amazed at the 1930s filmophone 78s. Leave a cement
Great video - thanks for the advice!
Thanks for making this video. In the past I had dismissed these Numark turntables because they looked rather flimsy in photos (and some of Numark's entry-level turntables are indeed very lightweight)... but a friend told me about his TTX and I was amazed at how heavy and substantial it is. He needed to sell it, so I bought it from him. I've been very pleasantly surprised by it. I think this will prove to be substantially easier than refurbishing a 50 year old turntable, which had been my previous plan for listening to 78s. :)
maineboy1979 the ttx really is a beast. Maybe the best 78 table in some respects - I wish there were a higher end option that not only improved on the build quality but also retained a lot the flexibility and functionality - alas, it really is a one of a kind table. 10 years with mine already
Sounds great. Some old shellac biscuits sound superb.
Very enjoyable video. It helps to see what another collector of 78's has done to get the most out of his records.... A few years ago I found a set of truncated elliptical stylii for the Stanton 500. There was a 1.0 mil for worn lp's and two others for 78's, 3.0 and 3.3 mil. The degree to which these stylii reduce noise and increase frequency response is quite surprising. You might be able to get something similar from Expert Stylus in the U.K. I use them only for copying 78's into my computer. I have Technics direct drive turntables to which I've added 78 rpm. Very satisfactory. Btw, I love the British dance orchestra records you played!
Hey Lawrence! Glad you liked the video. Wow a technics with 78rpm! You are very lucky to have those different size stylus. They are very expensive and I am sure they make a difference. I need to treat myself for one of those 3.3mil ellipticals. What type of records do you collect? I will eventually upload those 78s that I featured in the video. Greetings from the uk.
Matthew
Good video! I must say as a fellow collector of 78s for about 10 years now, a great introduction to proper 78 rpm playback to those just getting into the hobby--you know your onions!! I didn't know the TTx could do 78 w/ variable pitch, that'll have to be the replacement for my old 3-speed Garrard SynchroLab 65B autochanger with Shure N91ED cartridge (with 3 mil 78 stylus of course)-my current 78-capable turntable. A bit dated and limited (I mostly use it with a .7 mil stylus for listening to my LPs and 45s) , but plays 78s well!
Hey Ryan. Glad you liked the video. I am 27 and have been collecting for 15 years now. Great to hear from a fellow collector :)
Matt U.K.
The gramophone company record with the transcribing angel on the center. Was that their label before they obtained the HMV name with the nipper dog looking into the horn? The reason why I'm asking is because I have a Berliner Gramophone made in Canada for European markets. Its a type GT. Gramophone. The T stands for a type G but with a rear mount bracket and taper arm style tonearm. this was Canadas first rear mount model from 1907. ( Even though the states Victor models had them till 1903.). On the bottom it has a faded yellow paper label with the transcribing angel on it. The metal tag is a Berliner HMV with the Serial number on it as well. what year did the Gramophone company obtain the nipper logo?
I don't entirely agree about tracking force as I've gotten good results at 3 grams or less. I also have a record that loops at more than 2 on my turntable but then the ounces on my gramophone don't have that issue. One cartridge that ticks all the boxes of having 3 mils, heavier tracking, and being true mono is the Audio-Technica VM670SP. The Grado 78C/78E is also rated for heavier tracking than standard LP Grado cartridges (2-5 grams) which I am getting so I can have a true mono cartridge since my Nagaoka MP-110/78 combo is a stereo cartridge and highlights more surface noise due to reading verticality. The Audio-Technica AT-MONO3SP is a high-output moving coil cartridge with a recommended 5 grams but it has a 2.5 mil stylus. Someday I might try the Ortofon SPU CG 65 MkII which has a recommended 4 grams, 2.5 mil, and is also incredibly high-mass so it's a good thing I have the auxiliary weights for my SL-1210GR. Different conditions of 78s require a range of styli from 2.5 to 4 mil but 3 mil is a good all-rounder. Of course your opinion is your opinion and I have heard good results on many 2.5 mil styli.
The Shure M78S carts track at 2.0g to 2.5g which is quite adequate for the records, and they're really quite good. Plus, they're wired for monophonic sound, unlike your Stanton. Also, they come standard with a 2.5mil stylus, which is what you should be using on electrically recorded shellac discs. The 3mill stylus really should only be used on acoustically recorded discs and heavily worn electrics. Using a 3mill on an electric isn't going to hurt it, played at the proper force (6g really *is* too much,) but you're not getting all the sound possible with that wide a stylus.
I say you should get an M78S, dedicate that to your 78s... and keep the 500 for your good stereo vinyl.
***** Thanks for your comments. I have had experience with the cart you mention. 2.5mil would be best for late 40s 1950s 78s as the groove is smaller than older records. Also, the shure m78 is just bridged with a strap to get mono (this would be the same as pressing a mono button on an amplifier etc) removing the strap on m78 will make it a stereo cartridge. For general playback of normal 78s I have the Stanton in mono. Here is a video of a transfer I have made using this setup, you'll notice surface noise is much quieter than if I had used 2.5mil (note that not one size fits all for 78s, a 2.5mil might work better on certain records than other sizes):
ua-cam.com/video/_UEjqApj-Wk/v-deo.html
I would they record stereo, decrackle and declick both channels separately and mix them after.
On the other hand, Edison Diamond Discs need stereo to get it's sound by using the difference of both stereo channels
+Rob F great comment. This is the same process you describe that I go through when I am transferring vertical cut recordings. There is a lot of processing that can be done with a raw stereo transfer, and then creating a mono version after
3:48 No it's not and 3:55 yes there is. plenty actually and there is distortion too.
Nice video. The cantilever of the stylus dictates the tracking weight too. To much weight on a 78 stylus will prevent it from performing well if the cantilever is flexed upwards into the cartridge. In severe cases the cartridge may contact the record. Styli come with recommended weight values too.
denbydish very well saidm completely agree. The replacement styli I have taken about 4grans no problem. The few I have for an m44 is much lighter (just over 2 grans). Anymore than that and it would bottom out as you describe
The Head is good calibrate, sound is a pretty, pure!
In the U.S.A. the Audio Technica AT-VM95C dual moving coil cartridge for 78's is $39.00
whats the name of the first song, it sounds epic.
macnerd93 wanderer by jack payne
Fantastic video.
Very cool that turntable has such a wide range of speeds. I want to modify a technics 1200 to play 78's, but I don't know how much range the fader would have for changing speeds.
Song at 8:50? Just think of the people that enjoyed the sound, Maybe even how special of a song it might have been
The title is Don't Be Like That. I don't know the artist.
Great vid Matthew . I use the numark Pro tt2 both very good as you say for 78s
Andy! Thanks mate. This is a very old video now (was filmed in my kitchen!)
I still use the numark turntable and have a Stanton 500 fitted to it. I bet that numark pro TT Is a great one for 78s too. I wanted to look out for a Stanton st150 deck but prices here have gone crazy! Regards Matthew
@@matthewrichards88 yes work well .. thanks
Correction: it's a 3 mil stylus, not .3 mil.
VWestlife just noticed i had said that. I must have been thinking of .7 mil conical in my mind at the time. I'll have to lay off the drink lol! :)
Thanks for posting this. Very helpful. I have quite a collection of 78's but no method of playing them and was thinking a modern turntable would be great.
Glad it helped in some way any questions feel free to ask. A good modern turntable at the moment is the audio technica atpl 120. It does 78rpm and a very well built unit
Sounds very good
I just picked up an Ada Jones album. Cool to here her mentioned here. I play on a 1920 Columbia Grafonola, but I like your method.
Hey there. Is your gtafonola a upright cabinet model! Glad you liked the body's. There is nothing wrong with playing 78s on a acoustic machine. This is a modern alternative. I have many phonograph cylinders of ads jones. Do you have 78s of her? We don't have victor records or see many of her 78s here in the uk, she was born in oldham Lancashire in the uk and moved to us when she was a young girl. Thanks for watching
Matthew Richards yes I have several Ada jones discs, and only 2 cylinders by her.
I can hear a lot of hiss from the record. I am not sure you need to get the needle deep into the grove, as that's where all the debris etc. is. I have Stanton 500 with an after market needle for 78s. I find it sounds better at 2 grams. If you increase the weight i find the cantilever is bending and the cartridge is almost touching the record! Not sure you are correct about tracking heavily for better sound.
denbydish please check out my other uploads of a direct recordings I have made. This was quickly filmed with a mobile phone. The direct recordings will give a much better example.
I've been recording them at 45, then speeding the audio up in re-encoding..
tcpnetworks I've had to do this with an extremely warpped filmophone celoid 78 that has minute warps across the surface
I found the slower speed was so much better with the materials the disc is made from. It's very noisy at 78, less so at 45, and with some filters, almost silent.
The normal lp needle is not made for 78 rpm records
Hi Matthew, very excellent video. I converted a Pioneer PL2 direct drive to play 78s and it's OK but the pitch control only goes +/- 3 or 4% maybe. So I can play old batwing Victors and 80rpm Columbias and they sound pretty good. But I'd be stuck having to do pitch shifting in the PC if I had a Pathe fastie. Oh well, what I really wanted to say was that I agree with you about the Stanton 500. I am running exactly what you are in my Pioneer at 4 grams...sounds beautiful indeed! Take care & thanks for the video!
Hey Michael. It's great to hear what other people use to play 78rpm records. That modification sounds like a brilliant idea. I feel the Stanton cartridge is really rugged and 4g is no problem for 78s. Tracks really well.
Regards
Matthew
Thanks for the reply Matthew. I should've said my Pioneer TT was a PL4, not a PL2. My mistake! What sort of preamp or amp are you running your Numark into? -MM
Most interesting and infomative video Matthew - a chap after my own heart !.Could you please tell me the title of the Imperial 78 you are playing - possibly by Jack Payne - keep up the good work !
The imperial record is called wanderer by Jack payne
5:34 It is possible when that record was cut the electric motor was geared at 60 Hz and in Europe it's 50 Hz. Doing some calculations like 50 Hz divided by 60 Hz then multiplied by 78 RPM the result is 65 RPM which is close to what you said at 68 RPM.
+bobskie321 That's not the case. These G&T's were recorded at whatever speed the engineer (Fred Gaisberg, in the case of this Caruso disc) happened to set the recorder's speed governor to that day. 78.26rpm wasn't established as any kind of standard until the 1920's, and there are actually very few discs from the first 50 years of records that were indeed intended to be played at 78rpm.
Very interesting an informative video Matthew.A chap after my own heart !.I have been collecting records and the devices that played them it seems all my life.Reproducing 78s on modern equipment has always been dissapointing, which I had always guessed down to the ' unsuitable ' cartridge as indeed the case, a Shure M95ED with 78 stylus and am going to look into finding the Stanton you have demonstrated to great effect.Just proves how good the recordings were in their prime more than 80 years ago .By the way, what is the title of the Imperial record and is it Jack Payne ?.It's been going round in my head for days !.By the way, I think the 8" E-B Radios were actually 80r.p.m.I had an E-B Electron portable and the speed control had an 80 reference mark.Keep up the good work !.
Alright ....how do those old records sound so fantastic? You must have a record cleaning machine, or you are Dorian Grey. All said I never thought of picking up a Stanton DJ table for 78's. However you make a strong case for that idea. This was one of the most fun UA-cam posts ever! thanks!
hey I am glad you enjoyed the video. a Stanton deck would be very good. check out Broadway melody 78rpm on my channel for a direct sound.I clean records by hand (don't have a cleaning machine) thanks for your kind words
On the right Equipment the Bass on 78's can Cave Your Chest In better than any Format can Produce today. Listen to a Dedicated 78 Jukebox and the Pounding bass will be Better than even the Top End Hi-Fi can do. And these were recorded In the 1930's 40's but they Sound like they were Recorded Yesterday. They are also Cheap as Chips to get hold of and there are some Real Gems to be Discovered.
That arm is far to light therefore the bad sound. Try a heavier tone arm, a true mono cartridge that can handle the massive energy and you will discover a new dimension of the 78's. They can sound amazing! They also have surprisingly good low frequency, with correct equipment, that is.
Hey mate check out my other uploads for amazing direct scratch free sound!
As for a great 78 cartridge, try the Ortofon Concorde.
Beautiful sound ;) Fantastic deck there going for a lot of money on ebay and that's if you can find one in mint condition.
Superb Turntable, may I know the cost of this turntable
Google search. 20 years into widespread internet access and smart phones and people are still incapable of a simple search.
For anyone wondering the song at 3:20 is ua-cam.com/video/bLRCXIz60Sc/v-deo.html
7:38 I thought you were saying Popeye records but then figured out you were saying Pathe because they had weird speeds. They had a giant 20 inch record 120 RPM
I really like your cartrdoge, but I prefer the newer audio technica 78s.
Great! How do you equalise the sound, as different characteristics were used by different companies.
I use a Stanton cartridge for my kam turntable I got the turntable for only £20 all working
Surely 10% reduction from 78rpm is 78-7.8=70.2 - i.e. 2.2rpm faster than it should be on the Caruso record....?
That's true. I think I said something like 68rpm some carusos were at, it varies. This piece Aida is in b flat,band when played back at 78rpm it is in c major which is incorrect. So I slowed the speed 10% and got it to b flat (the key Caruso and what the piece should be in)
To get the 68 rpm you said is needed, you have to set the pitch adjustment to +/- 20%, then set it to about -13%. -12.83% to be precise.
🎉 Good afternoon. May I know the price or cost of this TT and 78 RPM special cartridge too
Gramophones and American Victrolas from the early part of the 20th Century tracked at 145 grams.
markwasmer they certainly did. Amazing how light tracking the cylinder phonograph reproducers were at the same time
Wet chips and the more robust nature of the materials used in older records (?) withstanding, won't you damage the groove if you play it at the wrong speed ?
Is there a transcription technology that uses lasers i.e. non-contact reading of the record ?
That would avoid adding further damage to these old records before asttempting digital transcription.
The Caruso record is way too fast in this demo - should be played at 67.92rpm, as with all the rest of his November 1902 recordings.
I disagree. If you check this video it is in the key of b flat which is the correct key for the piece
ua-cam.com/video/YHybrGmj6M0/v-deo.html What I have been saying is that you are almost there but it is slightly off. It is on the right key, but only with modern A=440Hz tuning - the piano used in this session appears to have been tuned at A=435Hz.
transformingArt if only we could be a fly on the wall in the studio. The figure You mention is one drawn up by an opinion on average of the overall g&t recordings,. I'm probably off by 1rpm !:) There was that many variables, nothing is documented in writing on the tuning of the piano, the speed the engineer had set the cutting lathe (it did vary) etc. It's fascinating the different tunings as you mentioned concert pitch, which wasn't standardized until around 1940 (I'm a piano tuner technician by trade and it's a fascinating subject)! We have surviving tuning forks and documentation of a = 452hz! (Which is high!) Of tuning here in the UK. Amazing that there wasn't a standard back then we're so used to the modern system
I shouldn't have said that it is "way too fast" - I am sorry if you felt that I am nitpicking you for this. It still sounds somewhat fast to me, as Caruso's voice sounds a bit too nasal to my ears even at 70rpm, but of course, we will never know it for 100 percent sure, as you described. (And yes, I do know about variable concert pitches from the period) I liked the rest of the video (as well as all the others), and I really wish you will keep up the good work.
transformingArt I agree. It sounds way too fast. I have several 1904 Caruso recordings and they seem fast as well at 78.
"FUCKYEAHH!!!"
What are the names of all the songs used?
Shure m78 s will be the best cartridge for 78rpms
After viewing your fine video on 78s I put together the following Numark Pro TT2, Numark Headshell, Stanton 500 Gold cartridge, pfanstiel 3 mill stylus. Got a hum, so removed the ground strap as directed from the left ground/blue pin. Still have the hum... turntable is grounded to the receiver. Hum is on the right channel ...if red input is unplugged from receiver stops as also does if balance is switched to the right. Used turntable and cartridge supposeably never used ...1 of 2 pack. Any ideas? Also cartridge seems to just clear the record when playing. How did you adjust your tone arm height?
Switched to left I meant to say
Switched the Headshell/cartridge from another table...still have the hum so I suppose the Numark may need service.
Update on hum issue...ended up returning for refund TT2, but at the same time from the same seller (Guitar Center) ordered another from Warwick, RI. Being that these are not that prevalent I considered that good luck. I understand the TT2 preceded the TTX in the video...no TTX units available. Bad thing is the dust cover, that I didn’t know was coming with the unit was shattered at one of the hinges in transit. And when I connected it I still had the hum. However the ground wire in the RCA cluster had been clipped midway and a bit unsheathed....after patching a length of wire from that point to my amplifiers phono ground the hum was eliminated. I thought at first inspection that perhaps the previous owner had soldered the ground internally to the RCA ground as I had seen on another video.
The hum on the returned unit was on the red/right channel whereas the hum I was able to remedy on the replacement was on the white/left channel. The replacement unit was in much better condition than the original as far as aesthetics.
What brand is the 78 needle that you use? Is it Columbia? Victor? Neither one? "Victor" in the U.S.A., is probably "His Master's Voice" in the U.K.
Great video! What is the title of the first song?
There may not be any "surface noise" but there is constant hissing.
A.J. Smith check out one of my latest videos. There is no hissing:
ua-cam.com/video/U7vGOWzVsjc/v-deo.html
Hissing is caused by worn out grooves, surface noise is caused by any scratches, scuffs or dirt
Who is the artist on the Imperial 78 and Edison Bell 78? Beautiful songs!
I have been fascinated by your video and have gone to look for your recommended Stanton 500 series cartridges only to find them no longer avilable. I have looked at the Shure M447 range, but they are rather expensive. Before I go ahead and buy one, do you have any other ideas as to what i can use please? I have an Audio Technics ATLP 120 and a spare headshell. The rest is up to you! Please offer me some advice; it will be valued. Looking forward to hearing from you. Many thanks.
There's a zillion of them on the used market. Many DJs used them. The Pickering equivalent (identical cartridge, same company), is the NP-AC. Also a bunch of them on the secondary market.
Hi, nice video. As you explained, pity the recording was was not a little better sound. It’s a bit of a misnomer to call the shelac recordings 78s (yes, I know collectors call them that), when as you stated the Enric Caruso was not a 78! Early records could have a speed of anywhere between 60 and 130 rpm. It was until around the 1930s when all records were standardised to 78rpm. The Caruso record was 1902, does it have the speed written on the label or did you just work out what speed it should be? Keep up the good work.
If you are still interested, the Caruso record as far as I know does not have a speed written on the label, he just tuned it to the pitch of the music
@@maximilianfischer8899
Cheers, I have been reading up on other forums etc about this. I found it was due to there being no common tolerances across the various recording, manufacturing equipment. I found that early Caruso records were typically 68 to 70 rpm. It's a bit bonkers really, but nonetheless quite interesting. I just don't really have the room for 78s on top of my vinyl collection, otherwise it would be a rabbit hole I would never come out of. Thanks for explaining, I just didn't realise that 78s were recorded with such variable speeds.
Cool
I have quite a few Caruso 78 records on Victor one sided labels. They are all true to speed. I wonder if the fault lies with your specific label?
The old G&T (Gramophone and Typewriter ) records were mostly recorded at around 68 rpm. But because of the spring driven Turntable, the speed was never exactly right
this a great record
I can hear a lot of surface noise......And the sound quality is impossible to judge with loudspeakers picked up by a mobile phone!!
Hey my friend. This is an old video. Check out some of my direct uploads. This was filmed in my kitchen on a phone years ago! :)
I have some shellac 78 records from 1902-1910. They all have loud noise that sounds like bacon frying. What causes that? Anything I can do?
next time use correct equalisation network ,it will sound correct
Check out my other uploads. I can assure you it is the correct equalisation. With the acoustic recorded records there are no rules :). Caruso didn't have a microphone let alone any way to adjust EQ ;)
Matthew, all mono prewar recordings had a special very warm acoustic. Caruso is still too fast. Anyway, very interesting video. Thank you.
Hey there. I checked the key and it is b flat the correct key as the Caruso recording. If only we knew at first hand the exact speed the original was recorded at. All. Of what we say now is an assumption
Unlike other tenors, Caruso had lower voice. I would compare it to barito-tenor. I have three of recordings and know how they should sound. Here it sounds like the voice of a young boy not fully developed singer. Listen Celeste Aida on UA-cam and compare it with his other performances. You will see that his voice is much lower than Pavarotti's or Juan Diego Flores.
@@johnfalstaff2270 but how do you know that the playback speed is correct on those uploads? Only way is to e travel I'm afraid now you notice how I say that Aida is in B flat, but what about concert pitch that standardised in 1940 it could have been anything back then Caruso'sid change. If you listen to an example from when he first started recording to the very last you will hear his voice is more darker sounding. It'll be coming up to 100 years soon. Frightening.
How old are you. I collected recordings from Russia on Melodya, from Czech Republic on Supraphon and couple of all records from Italy already in 1960's. If you insist your speed is correct then you do not know Caruso's voice. What you presented here I heard the first time. Caruso never had such high boyish sound. Listen other records and not only Aida. I know, several years ago Berliner, the inventor of flat discs did not established standard rpms. So, specialists and music fans used their staff to transfer old discs to new 33 and some to 45 rpm. This not correct what you think. At the beginning, his voice was higher. I know, but never that high. Recording of Aida he made in 1904, 1905, 1908 and the best is from 1912. The last one is perfect and nobody sang it better. Even Mario del Monaco.
I have not stated that the speed I am playing back this Caruso record is 100% fact. It all boils down to an opinion. I am a classically trained scholar of musicand I'm 30 years old I've been collecting since I was 7 and own many of the g&t carusos including the half a cylinder. the member of staff with transferred these records and I've stated their opinions. We will never know how Mozart or Chopin played. We could even say we'll never know how Caruso fully sounded due to The Acoustic recording system. Those members of staff you mention have their own opinion also. Have you noticed when HMV did those electric Recreation recordings of Caruso in the 1930s? Now some of them in my mind were issued at various speeds?
Had a normal 1970's record player playing 9" records without setting off too early
This player set off, when the arm moved faster in the lead out.
U are fucking awesome!!
Thanks for saving me 4-500$ +
Could You Tell Me Who The Bands Are And The Name Of The Tracks On The Imperial And The Edison Bell Radio Labels. THANKS
This is NOT the American Imperial label that started in the late'40s
Who is the artist on the Imperial 78 and Edison Bell 78? Songs are great!
Hey there the artists on the imperial 78 is 'wandering' by jack Payne and his orchestra. And the 8 inch Edison bell radio record is 'don't be like that' vocal by phill Arnold with Harry Hudson and his band. Glad you liked them. I'll upload full versions of them on my channel