Wind-up Gramophones - better than you don’t remember. - HMV 102
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2024
- Acoustic wind-up record players remained on sale longer than you might have thought - this is a video about one of the best and the last portables - the HMV 102. If you want to hear music being played on this machine - here’s a playlist • HMV 102 Demos
More (and better) information available here:
www.graham-ophones.co.uk
forum.talkingmachine.info
HMV 102 Models on eBay UK (Affiliated Link)
ebay.to/35Kq1e1
OC/DC Brand Gramophone needles on eBay UK (Affiliated Link)
ebay.to/35MD0Mp
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I'm sure part of what gives 78s the reputation for having tinny, crackly sound is people digging them out a generation later and playing them on a regular turntable with a standard stereo LP cartridge. The wrong diameter stylus and the stereo cartridge would emphasize the surface noise. I finally got a proper mono, 78 cartridge last year and couldn't believe the difference it made in the sound.
Hi-Fi actually got it's start back in the 78 age, late 40s early 50s. By then records were pressed in "unbreakable" Bakelite or Vinylite resins and played by standard sapphire or diamond styli. You could buy singles or albums, multiple disks in books, and play them on a handsome radio, TV, phonograph combination console, with a characteristics selector to set the sound for the various labels before the RIAA settled on the standard. This was before stereo, so the cartridges used were either moving metal magnetic or piezoelectric crystal monaural, tracking at 10 - 20 grams. Soon, however, the introduction of 45s and LPs would require the introduction of multi-speed phonographs with dual styli (standard and microgroove together) cartridges and auto size indexing to keep up with the innovations.
you can't play a 78 on a modern cartridge, so what the fuck are you even talking about..
@@swunt10 Of course you fuckin' can if you get a 78 contour stylus --Shure have done them for years-- and put amp on mono .. Smartass yeharrr.
The shape of the stylus itself on modern players just isn't ideal for 78s. They do still manufacture styluses made just for 78 records that fit modern players, however. I replaced the factory styluses on two of my modern players with these and the audio quality is much improved.
@@julianhermanubis6800 Just likeI said above to Mars.
I was NOT prepared for how good that second 75 sounded. Hifi mythbusting!
I almost spit out my coffee!
Indeed! That took _ME_ quite by surprise as well. Very interesting thing, that. :)
I agree. Im very surprised how good it sounds.
@@tubester4567 Took me by surprise too!
Same.
*78
I had a very similar gramaphone back in the 70s when I was a teenager. I had to search out 78s as that was the only speed it played. As a result I ended learning about Gershwin and Berlin, Big Band, Classical and Jazz that my friends had never heard of. Quite the musical education and all because I was fascinated by an old gramaphone!
I have my grandparents' Victrola -- a 1923 model they got as a wedding present. While not as good as the later Orthophonic models, I am still surprised by the quality of reproduction and the amazing loudness of the machine, without amplification. But what really gets me is that no electricity is involved. The spring keeps exactly the right tension, and the records play at a consistent speed from start to finish. That's the real miracle here.
"Is this a wind up?" haha I loved that gag!
Yeah that might be the hardest I've laughed in weeks.
Yeah, but I thought the rimshot was gratuitous.
For non-Brits like me: "WIND-UP ...12. (slang Brit) an act or instance of teasing: she just thinks it's a big wind-up." (The Free Dictionary)
@@QunMang Yes, for the confused non-Brits like us, this comment was quite the wind-up!
@@SilasHemmingway Indeed. I was wondering why that rimshot was even in the video- mistake or did I really miss something? When I read @Gadgetonomy's comment and the initial replies I decided to rewatch the segment, then finally looked it up when I still couldn't figure it out.
"In order to play electrically recorded disks, you need an electric player"
"Do you have any?"
"No, they're not invented yet"
Yeah they had electric players from the late 1920s, but many country towns didn't have electricity, some until the 1960s
gramophoneshane
Actually, Edison’s first model of his ’improved cylinder Phonograph’ was driven by an electric motor.
@@HMV101 True enough, but they REALLY mean ELECTRONIC amplification during the RECORDING (and SOMETIMES playback) of the records, not the motive part.
gramophoneshane well there was the electrolas from as early as 1908. But yeah they weren’t fully electric until around 1927
Yeah, I think Brunswick and Victor were amongst the first to offer electrical driven turntables with electric amplification. Edison's first was the C-1 etc range of phono-radio combos.
A portable made in Germany by Dual has a motor that was both spring driven and electrically driven, and 2 reproduces were supplied for accoustic or electrical playback. I've got a HMV 122 from 1939 that has a spring motor and electric pick up designed for use with battery radios, and a Paillard with electric motor and accoustic reproduction, so there was a variety of choices once electrical recording and reproduction came into being.
I'm 70...born in 1949..a d can still remember seeing these "Victrolas" and selling the steel needles in my dad's TV repair shop in the late 50s & early 60s...
Turntables made in the 1960s and '70s still had 78 rpm settings. It's amazing that those were still common enough back then. According to Wikipedia, they were still made in developing markets into the late 1960s. It would be interesting if you could get hold of any early electric gramophones to see how development progressed on the playback side.
Actually, the last shellac records were made in the early 70s in Africa.
I have an old gramophone/ am radio combo from somewhere around the late 30s to early 40s and am currently replacing old components, godda say they are pretty basic electronic wise but very complex to look at…
hell even brand new victrola players have 78
80s too
I remember you could flip the needle over for 78s back in the 70s
ah techmoan. may be weird. but you have legit helped me mentally with your content. you give me a distraction from a depression i have that i can barley control. and your videos along with 8bit guys have helped me find a hobby. i now collect and fix all sorts of tech. and im a complete audiophile thanks to you. used to he fine with dollar store headphones. now im rocking 50$ Hesh 3s cause i cant stand bad audio now.
so thank you. so much. im so glad your channel exists. and im so glad to be here apart of it.
I’m happy to hear that. Depression is a git - glad I could help you kick it’s arse.
So I looked up what an "audiophile" is, and it means "a hi-fi enthusiast".
You coulda just said that, because I thought you meant like you had an ASMR fetish.
@@NunofYerbizness Ya know.
I can see that. But. Now you know. Personally. ASMR is weird and makes me uncomfortable
@@SnabbKassa oh wow. Guess some good can come out of bad things in this world.
@@NunofYerbizness hahaha, god
"Modern-day record players." What's astounding is that term still is a valid reference for equipment playing the 70-yr-old LP.
Modern record players haven't really changed since the late 1980s/early 90s. What they are making today is basically copies of what was available then, with the addition of digitization for user convenience. And the digitization in most of the cheap, Chinese players isn't that good, and the software they come with is often outdated. Most laptop computers can do the job better.
@Deon Denis It doesn't. The CD contains drivers for the digitizer/IO interface and sound editing software, commonly an old version of Audacity.
@SevelRomanov They need the preamp to drive the digital converter anyway, it works much better with a line level input than what the cartridge itself provides.
78's aren't LP's!!!
@@theantiquescollector2199 LPs are 70 years old. (78s are about a hundred years old!)
I actually started out becoming an audiophile, but as I sought more authentic historical recordings I became interested in acoustical technology. It has become a passion of mine for nearly 40 years now! (78’s and wax cylinders!)
audiophile is mad old people that are having Hz issues, LOL
I imagine that listening to records must have been a different type of musical appreciation, since you only get a finite number of plays out of the needles
I have a stand-up unit with a similar hand crank, and it can fill the house with music! It even has volume adjustment via doors that cover the internal horn.
Sounds fantastic. Or I imagine it does. :)
@@kitgar61 It probably still has the older pickup unit. I'm thinking that a new wide-frequency pickup head could make for a good fathers day gift.
Which model?
I love my VV-100
I have a Victor Victrola IX 1913
Is it a Victrola? I have one that sounds like yours.
Non electric mechanical devices are so interesting.
It blows my mind the things humans invented before electricity.
I think Carl Sagan was right, Socrates’ lectures could have been recorded at the time if they knew about this. Also all that music where we only have a few written surviving pieces.
I want one of these that plays 33 rpm LP records.
People ask why I collect mechanical watches, same reason as vinyl loo
YASSS I KNOW
These old phonographs are so cool when you hear one in person it's like going back in time!!!
At the time when vocal music was recorded through an acoustic horn, there wouldn't have been a way to turn the volume up and down to equalise the many different volumes singers use in one song. This was especially true in opera. So, they had to make up for that by singing closer to the horn on quieter, usually lower notes, and further away from the horn on louder, usually higher notes. And because of how quick that change needed to be, the movement from closer to further was often a quick leap. However, some opera singers were well known to be.. quite large, and so were unable to move quickly enough to match the note with how close they needed to be to the horn. So, they devised a system which fixed the problem - wherein larger opera singers stood on specially made trolleys, which could be quickly moved closer to or further away from the horn as required. I know the image this conjures shouldn't be funny... But it is.
You talking about "when I'm gone"
Thats just not gonna do man, we need ya here, I don't wanna hear it ❤
If he avoids the jab, he should be here for a long time more!
@@G-ra-ha-m - What makes you think that?
@@G-ra-ha-m 🤡💩
@@NOWtheband A number of very respected health professionals. In fact all of the ones not receiving money from the Bill and Melinda Foundation. Have a look at Health Impact News.
@@G-ra-ha-m - I see.
Every time I watch Techmoan I discover things I never knew I wanted. If there's a 78 revival in the next few months we know where it started.
There's been stranger events this year.
Honestly 78s are pretty dope in my opinion. Course they have big issues such as the records actually being able to shatter, and degradation but heck they seem fun to mess around with.
There absolutely should be. Many of the players are now a century or older. Amazing to have an interactive antique.
This summer I was listening to a 101 that has been stored in my uncle house for ages. It was still working perfectly and I was surprised on how well it sounded. Amazing things!
This is such a great video of the oldest record player in those earlier years. One can imagine how much time and dedication was put into this marvelous invention . In those days, the craftsmanship was so good and authentic. 👍
Techmoan: plays an 80 year old copyrighted recording...
Legal looking ghost appears: "ahem.. excuse me sir.."
Slimer was a lawyer??? 😉
That's how copyright works? Usually expires 50~100 years after the copyright owners death, however it depends what part of the world the claim is in...
@@Fifury161 Indeed, sadly and mainly thanks to disney that's now the case. It use to be immediately after said death.... then after a few years and now up to 70yrs after death
@@DeanDoom It depends on the jurisdiction...
@@Fifury161 The US will likely increase it, soon. Disney has a lot of lobbying power and a death-grip on that mouse.
Mind you, right now they're maintaining all those huge theme parks with precisely 0 customers coming through the doors, that can't be cheap.
I remember the HMV 102 from my nursery school in 1960 when I was 4 years old. I was fascinated with the ritual of winding and needle changing. The teacher would play us 'Nellie the Elephant' which was the class favourite.
Amazing, thank you for sharing!
Bloody hell did you go to the same school 😂 as me lol
My grandmother bought one of these for my mum some time around 1940, which she used to play "Nellie the Elephant" on to my sister in the early 60s. It is still around somewhere. I will have to look for it. When I was a kid I used to be fascinated by how it worked without electricity. This would have been in the early 50s, and by then my dad who was a bit of a gadget freak already had an electric HMV. I used to love opening the little draw and sorting all the needles!
That takes me back. Being born in 74, I was allowed to play unfettered with one of these. The sight of all the plated fittings took me right back! Jimmy Shand was all I had to play using rose thorns from the garden as a needle! Thanks for a great Trip down Memory lane 👍😀
Wow! Not only do I have one of these, but I also have that exact same record (meaning the Schubert Serenade). Both the gramophone and the records were given to me by my grandmother when I was a small child. The gramophone had a broken spring, but my Father repaired it, and it gave me a lot of pleasure as a kid. I still have it up in my attic, fifty-odd years later.
@zemny1264 Not that I know of, sorry.
I like old things that still do things. My favorite quote.
Yeah, there's just something really impressive about a piece of technology older than I am that still functions properly amongst a world filled with throwaway crap designed to break in a year and be replaced.
I agree, when digital is not available. Even some movie implies the thing, but not so fast.
PUPPETS ARE BACK! Anyone else really miss seeing the puppets? Please, more moar MOAR PUPPETS!
absolutely missed them too
Me too!
Missed them to.
MR TECH I own a portable gramophone which looks like a big box brownie camera when closed up,on seen two before one on repaire shop and the other on antiques road show.Could not believe sound quality from yours.
@@bart.k no
I obtained an HMV wind-up portable many years ago, and recall being amazed at the volume it delivered - ('put a sock in it' as you say), and in fact some of the 1950s 78 rpm discs contained enough energy within the grooves to bounce off the pick-up when played on a modern record deck. Many thanks for an informative and enjoyable video.
I was stunned by how loud the replay can be when I heard one ! - and 10KHz too - remarkable.
Oh yes, the Muppets meet Not the Nine O'clock News sketch was nicely underplayed.
Back in the 1960s our elderly teacher had us learning country dancing by playing records on her original wind-up gramophone player. Great fun!
I was amazed by the sound quality.
Also, love that Not the Nine O'Clock news inspired bit.
I discovered to my surprise that my father owned a very early wind up gramophone with a massive collection of century old records in the cabinet beneath. To my shock when I tried it...it actually worked...& sounded quite good! I had a similar experience when I turned on a large beautiful tube radio from the early 1930's or so & it too sounded absolutely incredible. I could see why ppl would gather around it like a console TV of the 70's with it's deep rich sound & large lit up circular dial possibly listening to WAR OF THE WORLDS. Our assumption that we only recently have had good technology is false! I think ANY device like a gramophone that could play beautiful music with NO electricity required is perhaps the better technology given it's power source is Free & ALWAYS available even in a post apocalyptic world which we seem to be headed toward. U can see y futuristic movies often show the only things left r old technology where everything digital has been destroyed & wiped out. If we really indeed wanted to be "green" & reduce reliance on generated power & foreign oil these old manually powered concepts might be the REAL answer.
I used to restore these as a hobby, along with my teenage son in the '90s. We bought and sold loads of them and kept a couple for ourselves. I had a blue HMV 102 which I used to take out to shows with my 1936 Morris Eight. My son still has an HMV 103, which he learned to french polish on. I was always amazed with the quality - and the volume of some records. Going through auction job lots, we discovered a few great performers that have been long forgotten - Wynnonie Harris singing 'Bloodshot Eyes' is a real standout! The 78 version sounds so much better than the cleaned up version available on CD/download. Great fun!
Yay puppets! Those sketches are always hilarious.
13:18 That "OC/DC" logo looks awfully familiar...
Let there be Rock!
Gimme no! voltage! rock and roll! ;)
It's Metal! Yeah
right? i wonder if thats where they got the idea for thier logo.
Looks like ac/dc
@@jesuschrist711 Nope one of the Young brothers ( I think Malcom) saw AC/DC on a vacuum cleaner.
I am born in the cassette era, and haven't yet owned a record player, still a good learning. Techmoan thanks for your contributions.
I bought what I think is a 102 from a brocante in France. Its great condition (though not quite as mint as this one,) and came with an original tin of gold needles and a load of I guess steel ones, 5 cases of slate records all catalogued so it was clearly somebody's pride and joy from days of old. I absolutely adore putting on a 78, closing my eyes and being transported back in time. I feel quite privelidged to now be the guardian of such a piece of history. Yet another fantastic vid!
Techmoan: today we will watch paint dry
Me: this is going to be a good one!!!
Big discussion on types of paint preparation temperature substrate lead content and so on
High Path ....Me: munching popcorn
Sixty Symbols did it.
I like working antiques too man ive been having fun with this 1950's camera that is to this day my most reliable camera
My dad still has this exact model! Next time I see him I'll have to find out when and where it was made. He always brings it out around Christmas time, so this year I got him a collection of gospel blues 78s ordered from Etsy. All pressed in 1948 I believe. They've clearly been very well looked after - no dust or scratches and hardly any surface noise at all. Much clearer sounding than any others in his collection. As for the gramophone itself, the sheer power on the thing is astonishing!! It fills up a whole house with ease, so easy to forget there's no electric amplification going on at all. We always find ourselves without any tea towels at Christmas because my dad has had to stuff them all into the trough!!
One of the things I really like about gramophones is how loud they can be, there can be a lot o body to the sound. The Columbia 112A was very loud and it played some of the records very well. But then the sound box insulator started to not work properly.
That was fascinating -- I had no idea the different sound-boxes existed, that give you different frequency responses. I just figured they were all AM-radio-like, topping out at 3,000 Hz like an AM radio signal does. But no -- yours is 10 KHz?! Very surprising!
What's even more surprising -- you can still get new needles for these things, apparently? Look at all those needles you have! Wow!
Yes the needles are still being made. There’s something very pleasing about a colourful new tin of needles. The three tins from OC/DC are newly made - links in the video description. Although some of the demos were recorded with NOS vintage medium needles.
@@Techmoan I remember William Gibson mentioning that, in California during the war, they use to use spines from a specific cactus since they couldn't get needles due to the metals shortage.
There were also sold as an upgrade for example the Meltrope range is quite well known
hoilst the cactus or bamboo needles are called „fiber” and they are said to cause less wear to records
Most experts recommend avoiding the fibre needles as they can shed bits in the groove that are very difficult to extract.
1:57 and 2:05 are nice shots. Could sell those as stock footage.
If he did, he’d probably get content matched on this, his own, original video using the footage 😒
It's a beautiful gramophone, but it's in need of a re-cap.
Thank you so much for showing this. There is so much misinformation and lack of knowledge out there and you demonstrated the machine beautifully. It is a mechanical work of art. HMV machines were always high quality. I used to have a cheap generic portable and a large console model from the 1920's (sadly, both sold decades ago) I still have the needles though. I played my 78's with a modern magnetic cartridge. Also nice to see those two jokers making an appearance too :-) Cheers
I'm 22 and I DO remember them being this good. We had(still have) an HMV 102 at my grandparents' house. As a kid I used to spend my time listening to old records as we had no electricity there back then.
I dare must say, it was an unexpected and marvelous thrill to have the surprise visit from the puppets part way through.... but then a tinge disappointing at the end credits, cuz I knew they weren't likely going to show up after having already done their skip during the the main video.
Of course, what am I complaining about? If that's the most of my worries considering everything going on in the world, I guess I must be pretty lucky. Stay safe everyone, and remember to use your heads!
i find this analog technology way more stunning and interesting than all that digital stuff today
haha zwangsläufig. Haben se am Altschauerberg wieder mal den Strom gekappt. 😏
Meddl Loide!
Ja klar, so macht man das doch immer :D @funkjoker
Really depends on the viewpoint
Well, my background is in digital electronics and I personally find both very interesting. You have to look at the mathematics behind all the digital media like CD, DVD, etc. Very stunning indeed 👍
I own an His Masters Voice 101, and the sound quality of it still amazes me! Gramophones are really fun to bring over to friends' houses to show them that Spotify isn't the only way to listen to music😆😆
I used to own a huge 78 rpm classical music collection from the 30's - 40's that was almost unplayed. Some of the albums had even the price tags and discs looked like a mirror, not even a scratch on them. I was surpriesed how bright, beautiful and clear was the sound, when played on a 1910's HMV with a huge brass horn , no cracks, no chips, just the zzzz sound when the needle passes through the groove. Something that you cannot replicate with digital recordings.
Wow the Muppets appearing in prime time
"Hey, turn that volume down!"
"Sorry, one volume setting only!" ;-)
"...Then put a sock in it!" 🧦📣 hehehehe JK 😜
The old uprights and consoles had doors in front of the horn you could close, too!
Or use a bamboo needle instead; softer and quieter tone.
If it's too loud, you're too old.
The volume actually "can" be controlled. The top lid - you see does not have a lock. If you lower it down, the hinge auto stops the lid and does not drop the top flat on the platter. Adjust the lid, and you hear volume going up and down. Try it out....... I am in India and recently got my hands on a green version of an 102C from Amritsar Punjab ---- apparently when we were colonized, allot good stuff was also brought in the country - they still stayed back with people or the Sahib.........its all good.
"Stick a sock in it". I thought it was in the mouth 😃. I'm 56 and remember the RCA dog with the gramophone on my grandmother's (78rpm) records. As a child I used to watch my mother's records (45rpm) revolving around with amazement and was fascinated by it. Today as a DJ I'm amazed with the sonic quality of my (33rpm) records. I still have to watch the tape a DJ places on his records to mix! My Stanton STR8-80 turntables have speed of (33, 45 and 78 rpm) with reverse function and digital out.
Time's have changed!
It was Nipper, the very first mascot of both the Victor Talking Machine Co. and the Gramophone Company where “His Master’s Voice” as the company’s motto and the brand until RCA took over by 1929 and rebranded as the RCA Victor, and the RCA Manufacturing Co.
Really good decks you're rocking! Got the 7000mk2s myself.
Respect, from a younger DJ to an older DJ.
You keep lifting the bar, and the quality of your productions is now extremely high.
Thank you for making this great show - your videos are just an excellent way of showing tech, and having a nice time at the same time.
Stay safe
Christopher
How interesting! My mother have told me that they had gramophones like these when she went to dances in the forties. She told that sometimes they couldn't hear the music properly for the sound of the feet of the dancing couples.
I had no idea that I could get needles on eBay. We only had a few left so I haven't really wanted to use them. I better order a tin.
Hehe you can buy almost _anything_ on ebay; i once heard about a norwegian comedian who put his soul up for sale on auction there, and he actually got quite a high number of bidders before ebay stepped in and closed the auction because you have to have a "substantial" item to be allowed to sell, according to their terms. They are such spoilsports! ;)
People still manufacture steel needles, and even bamboo needles. Steel needles are very cheap, but bamboo needles sound a little better, albeit quieter. Look around for places other than eBay. You can pay a lot less than you would for new old stock needles.
@@BertGrink Yep, you could even buy a whole family. I thought it was hilarious.
@@joonglegamer9898 I don't know if it's the same guy you're referring to, but i also heard about an Australian guy who actually sold his entire life: Home, family, car, job, and even his circle of friends.
@@BertGrink Yeah, that's another Example I heard of as well.
10,000 hz of sound from a gramaphone? That's amazing.
thanks for making these! It's a really great way to see how much better things really were back in the day.
I learn something new every time I watch one of your videos! Thank you for keeping aging audiophiles like myself something to learn every now and again! Cheers from across the pond, near Washington, DC (please don't hold that against me) ;-)
Now you made me want to watch the "Not the nine o'clock news" grammophone sketch.
fritspas - Same here!
3 watts... no, two thousand!
danehb89 - Classic!
Glad to se the puppets again. 😀
That intro immediately made me think he’d go “Are you experienced? Have you ever been experienced? Well, I have.” (One of my favorite Jimi songs.)
5:54 Hey let that run... it's beautiful music
12:23 when you weighed the tracking force I legitimately shouted out loud "oh my GOD!"
Cool 😎 man
With GOOD Needles You can get great sound...i love my Stand up Victrola.. and Its 5am and Im Still Awake.
Same, buddy, same.
This history lesson must go on record as thoroughly entertaining! 💿
I see what you did here.
Fascinating video- really nice to see your explanation of these wonderful old machines, your enthusiasm shines through.
At 7:05 in the foreground a musician is holding a Stroh violin, specifically engineered for acoustic recordings.
I saw a middle-aged street musician using one of those a couple of years ago. I had to stop and ask what he was playing. It took me 10 minutes to get away from him - he was so enthusiastic about it!
I like the Stroh fiddle as an instrument in its own right.
I love watching the lines flow through the needle.
there is a charm to seeing the needle head swaying and dancing around the record as it does.
"I like old things that still do things" you have put the rights words to what i feel. Thats why i'm here. Greetings from Argentina.
on the subject of your legacy living on... if I have my way many times over grandkids will be learning directly from your vids.
1:35 Schubert-Liszt: S.560 No.7 - "Ständchen" (Serenade)
Thank you! I searched nearly an hour to find your comment
I’m trying to find the vinyl or even the same song he plays here but it appears to be all piano versions. If you see the version on UA-cam or anywhere or the vinyl for sale he plays let me know thankyou!
@@brandonreynolds7380 you can kinda zoom in on the record before he spins it. the center label says: Serenade, Schubert, Salon Orchestra, 78RPM, Cat. S2765. also 8-522
@@Mike1614b thank you I will try to find it
Thanks king
Very interesting. We had an old His Master's Voice on the farm when I was a mere boy but never realised that there is so much to these old machines and their records.
Nice presentation too.
You did it and made me buy a worn out Model 101. Repaired it, rebuilt the soundbox as best as I could. A little rough on the high frequencies, but works like a charm otherwise. Had so much fun with the whole project and its outcome. Thank you for introducing me to this kind of device :)
Loved the puppet show. That wind up pun is criminal 🤣🤣🤣
3:27 As well as record age, tone quality is affected by the matching between the width of the needle tip and the width of the groove. Top-quality is achieved if there’s a snug fit of needle and groove producing less “noise”.
In the early days of record manufacture there was no standardisation of groove width between companies so, when playing 78’s today, some experimentation / research is needed before playing into what standard did each individual company have regarding groove width, and then select a needle to play in that width of the particular record / brand otherwise, as you say, the tone can sound thin with lots of pops and crackles.
Also, referring to the example you showed at this time code (made by HMV), HMV as far as I recall made discs with materials in 2 different qualities: (a) "standard" and (b) "best", each differentiated by the label colour. Standard quality, (denoted by the brown label you were holding) was used for everyday songs and descriptive titles to sell to the masses: examples include Jack Hylton Fox-trots and "A day at the Races". Best quality (orange) was reserved for the more serious performances, like classical music and for output from stars who had made it "big time", like Sir Harry Lauder, to attract people with more lined pockets. Standard quality always had more pops and crackles than best.
Very thorough notes! Thanks!
Hi TM. We had this model as a child, over 60 years ago now. There were ‘harder’ needles with a red band where they fitted into the sound head and also ‘thorn’ needles which were gentle on the record but definitely one play only. I regret to say I dismantled it - the wind up clockwork motor was something to behold, absolutely massive. Brings back memories. Stay safe. BobUK
I guessed at '56. we had the posh non-portable version of this ass a child, in a big cabinet with barley-twist legs and a polished wooden top. It had a cupboard under the gramophone part for keeping the 78's together. We had a lot of fantastic classical records, loads of Gilbert and Sullivan, and a random assortment of records from the 20's, 30's and 40's mostly dance music. Also some Disney sound tracks and Peter and the Wolf. I loved standing on tiptoe and watching my mum or dad putting the needle on, and carefully with help choosing a new needle from the little round HMV tin. I was taught how to put the records in their sleeves too. Later when I was older no one used it, and my brother and I played it sometimes. The arm was EXACTLY the same as this. I have not seen one since 1963. After about 1956 we had a square electric portable made by the mullions ours was I think blue and cream. We mainly had EP's for that, if we listened to longer music we turned on the radio. I would give my eye teeth to have the big fancy one again though.
A couple interesting things about this machine (I have 3 of them). The inside is really fun to look at, and to get a full appreciation for how carefully crafted it is. If you unscrew the wooden motorboard and lift it out, it's fascinating to see just how big the horn is, how it's PACKED in there and you realize that what you have in this black box, in essence, is really JUST a horn, with a tiny motor shoehorned into the middle. Also, stick an SM58 into the opening, and witness the amazing frequency capabilities. Bass for days!
Thanks for clarifying the sound quality degrading over time. I always wondered if they sounded better when new. I have quite a number of 78s in my collection that were unplayed when I got them, and I just figured that was as good as it gets.
Only play them on electric turntable to not wear them out
I love when you cover these old formats/machines!
I'm glad I'm here while you're here, mate. Always have awesome top quality videos to look forward to 😁 I have no doubt that they're time consuming to produce, but you keep doing them. So we're forever grateful
The muppets are back 🎉🎶
I'm so glad that they came back. I've missed them for a while.
PassiveDestroyer me too I love that dry british humor!
And better than ever :)
They're not "Muppets" - that's a trademark of Jim Henson. These are puppets.
Shaun Stephens a trademark now owned by Disney... he calls them his muppets him self (in the Patreon odd casts and in some of the descriptions on patreon) maybe he got them in a Disney store where you can make your custom muppets.
Love your channel, Technomoan. Thanks for the informative video.
When I was just a small lad about 50 years ago in the early 70s, my parents answered a classified ad and bought a Columbia Grafonola, a big standing acoustic phonograph with lots of records in storage drawers. It was about 65 years old then. A few years later, we drove by White Horse Antiques in Albany, New York, USA on the way to church. There in the window was a Edison Home Phonograph, a cylinder phonograph that used a small brass horn for amplification. I dreamed about that thing for weeks, even doodling bad renderings of it in my notebooks at school, and I'm sure I made a complete nuisance of myself about it at home, as well.
One Saturday my Dad and I went there. I made a beeline for it. He was doing a bit of haggling with the owner until I walked up (oblivious) and with stars in my eyes said, "Gosh, Dad, it's the greatest thing I've ever seen." Needless to say, he paid the listed price. I, too, like vintage antiques that do something, and I learned a valuable lesson about haggling on the drive home!
My grade school age mates were listening to Three Dog Night at the time; I was hooked on the greatest hits of 1900-1945. I became known for my retro weirdness, but I didn't care.
Now I collect Magnavox tube stereo gear, so for my audio at least, I'm still about 60 years behind the times!
Stay safe, everyone!
Yes, i hear ya, most of the audio in my place is amplified via vacuum tubes.. A Scott amp, for discs, tape and cd'. Radio via a, '37 GE console radio, or a European "lucor" table radio.. I'm also a clock "nut"... It's not a real clock, unless it ticks, you have to wind it...
Yes, i hear ya, most of the audio in my place is amplified via vacuum tubes.. A Scott amp, for discs, tape and cd'. Radio via a, '37 GE console radio, or a European "lucor" table radio.. I'm also a clock "nut"... It's not a real clock, unless it ticks, you have to wind it...happily " behind the times"
Great video. I love Gramophones. I got one for my 9th Christmas in 1984. I used to buy 78s from the War memorial shop in town. I was fascinated by the different sizes and esoterica of the labels from the period.I learned from a friend of my Parents that you could make spare needles from hawthorn bush needles which I used to collect and dry out in front of the coal fire.
I absolutely love this guys videos. Have so for a few years now. Going to be a sad day when they come to an end.
It'd be interesting to see if it'd be possible to use some kind of adapter to enable the use of a modern stylus with the soundbox, and maybe a spring or something to decrease/lessen the amount of tracking force the arm applies, all to allow this unit to use modern records without fear of damaging them (too much).
Back in the day... you *could* buy a counter-weight for your EMG, Victor, or HMV. They _kind of_ worked... but, it's hard to notice a difference.
When you're talking about a "modern stylus," I assume you mean something with a diamond tip. Nope. It would eat up a shellac disc in one play. It's fine when you're using a modern light-weight tone arm with a modern cart, but trying to use one with an antique sound box? Nope.
When I was a kid, we found a working Victrola in a church storeroom, and naturally we needed to find a record to play. We found one, a 33 rpm LP. We put it on the turntable, turned the crank, set the needle down -- and heard the most awful of noises. It was the last time anyone played that record, too.
The arm on an acoustic player needs to apply a lot of force to extract enough energy from the rotating record to make the sound loud enough as there isn't any electronic amplification. Another thing is that modern records usually are lower RPM (33 1/3) and have smaller grooves. This is great for maximizing that amount of music you can pack onto the record, but for an acoustic player without electronic amplification, means less sound as smaller grooves and lower RPM=less energy=less sound and it probably wouldn't be enough sound for a gramophone.
16:03 please don’t go! It aint your time yet😉
he was to young to die:(
Bray33 Sadly, most people are.
That is one of the most pristine looking HMV gramophones I have ever seen. Amazing
This is the first model I ever bought. I was a bit of an odd kid, and spent all my summer holiday money on it, along with a carry-case of mixed records from Tommyfields Market in Oldham. £3 new pounds! Iwas staying with my grandparents (around 1974/5) and I think I drove them a bit mad playing the WIlliam Tell Overture and novelties like 'My Friend the WItchdoctor'. I ended up with a rather large collection which I sold when I went to the Technical College - all but one, and it wasn't this one but the Decca Worlds Patent model from the mid 30's. Still got it. Thanks for the video - vey entertaining.
with the same model, my dad played at weddings in his village, and always tell us as a joke, it was the first dj in greece!!! :)
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@@Darenz-cg9zg 48 (my father 75).
Nice “Not the nine o’clock news” reference, in there ;)
Do you want an amp with that?
In my Nan's loft back when I was a kid I came across one of these without a case. It was an absolute work of art! I remember being fascinated by the governor. A classic whirling ball type. I loved just watching it run!
What a wonderful piece of engineering this gramophone is. Truly inspiring stuff.
Ok what happened? I just stumbled onto your channel yesterday, and now I've watched over a dozen hours of your videos. Love your content! Premium sub added
Wonderful video Techmoan. I just bought a 1906 Edison Cylinder Record Phonograph a month or so ago. The cylinder format lasted to 1928 but disc records, invented by Emile Berliner, were more popular beginning around 1912. You can go back further, and talk about Edison's invention of the Tinfoil player in 1878.
Gramophones are BEAUTIFUL Machines! Thanks for sharing this.
I dug out some old Talking machine records and realized they could be early 1909 on up. Now I am learning about the gramophone player so I can play them.
In this modern era you can simulate "old timey" UA-cam videos by watching in 240p
Or just dont. UA-cam wasn't a thing back then ;)
@SublimeHawk6 no, 144 is a more recent addition than 240. 240 used to be the lowest till they realised there's potato internet that can't even handle that.
@@AnonymousUser77254 144p had been the default option in the early years of UA-cam; “HQ” (ie 240p) picture quality was only offered for select video uploads.
@ then it was removed at some point. I can explicitly remember its introduction.
Fun fact, 144 lines is less than the resolution of both PAL and NTSC VHS and VCD. Yes, you can watch a UA-cam video at a lower-than-VCD resolution.
3:16 reminds me of Spongebob blowing leaves.
😊 yep
I love your videos. So much information and history behind these products. A fascinating way to pass a bit of downtime 👍
Another excellent video. I have an HMV 101 along with a number of home machines. You nailed it with the info about what record one can play on an acoustic machine. Newer 78s have less abrasives mixed in to aid honing the needle. Thanks for the plug of the TMF too!