I have been shooting a .270 for over 60 yrs. This caliber has never failed me even on elk. Although I haven’t ever shot much over 200 yds with the belief that it was the effective range. Also, that a person needs to be a good enough hunter to get within good range. So, you have gotten me pretty excited to build a gun with this faster twist barrel.
For the handloader, there are a few powders that get you over 3000 fps with 150 gr bullets in a 270 with a 22" bbl. If you've got a fast-twist 270 with a 25-26" bbl, 3000 fps with a 165 gr ABLR is safely doable. May want to run the drop and drift numbers on a .625 G1 BC at 3000 fps. Or you could shoot the 170 Berger with its. 662 G1 at slightly less than 3000 fps. A faster twist and a slightly longer barrel turns the 270 into a different animal.
Good point a good read is Berger’s loading manual longer throats. It’s why the 6.5 x55 shoots so well all of them I’ve had the throat is endless u run out of seating depth befor u hit the lands -.5 always
Rl 25,26 h1000 not much difference than the 6.5x06 I run 56 ish and 140 Berger vld rl 26 mines a .270 Spec case throat and seating depth so not the Sami
I stumbled across a Ruger American in .270 Win about 8 years at a price I could not pass up. One of the best impulse purchases I have ever made in my life. It has never let me down.
I concur. A faster twist would be a minimal improvement imo over .270 traditional twist. Moreover, faster twists can reduce barrel life and increase the odds of case rupture.
We dearly love our .270's, the Missus' is a 1949 "WCF" in a Fajen Sportsman stock we had fitted to her (she's 4'11") and mine is a 1952 Standard. Nothing beats the feel of an old Model 70 action.
Glad you came back to compare the 150 vs heavier bullets. I was thinking the 270 Winchester just didn’t have enough horsepower to gain any advantage with the heavy bullets. Those belong in the bigger cartridges. I will keep my 10 inch twist 270 and not worry about it. As an added observation, the standard 22 inch barrel very seldom achieves the listed velocity. Mine is usually 100 FPS below rated velocity for both factory ammo and reloads.
It is so nice to see you go in to great detail about the old stuff. It is amazing to see _how much more_ can be gotten from the _OLD STUFF,_ with a few changes.
Nice to see the .270 Winchester can still hold it's own against more modern era cartridges. I saw them work in the late 60s and they were real thumpers on deer and elk. Thank you for sharing your comparison findings!
Yeah it's always great. My Remington is flat and accurate. The only reason I switched to 6.5CM is I like AR10 magazines. .308 drop is alot at distance but nothing impossible. As far as the drift is concerned for all those calibrs I think it's irrelevant because I'll never get it right anyways
ive seen it knock down deer for the last 20 years... my dads rifle idk why these people are saying its old!! 150 grain pills around 3000 fps??? hell ya! . i wish i had that flat shooting 270 VS my 308 honestly lol 270 also has that 556 tumble/break-up at high velocity.... which just makes a mess of lungs/heart
My 22" barrel and 1:10 twist is shooting 160 grain Nosler partitions out the spout at 2832 fps with accuracy. Pretty hard to improve on this in the real world.., Delighted that the skinnier and longer 270 bullets are finally getting respect, but when a bullet hits the meat, a 160 Nosler partition at these velocities and tight 100 yd groups is just fine. 56 grains of IMR 4831, CCI 200 primers. It will hit about 8" low at 300 yds and that is as far as i care to shoot. It will be carrying about 1600 ftlbs so no elk is safe. Remington 700 BDL left hand bolt.
Agreed, but only when it comes to actually being able to stabilize them. I think on a non-magnum like the 270 Win it creates a potential trap for many hunters. Given that most copper bullets need at least need 2300 ft/s to have decent expansion, running heavier copper bullets will further decrease their max effective range.
@@texpatriot8462 - reasonable - is exactly my point. I ran it through a ballistics calculator. With a 24‘ barrel you‘ll be fine up to 300 yards. But no one will buy such a long barrel anymore in the new fast twist offerings. With 22‘ it’s more 250 yards. But then why again am I shooting a long and sleek Long Range bullet?
Great video Ron! I've been considering getting a faster twist barrel for my 270 Tikka but this helped me solidify the confidence that I really don't Need that for my hunting purposes
The thing is, as a handloader, you don't have to shoot book OAL. If you get a barrel with a long throat, you can load that 270 much longer, use a slower powder, and push them heavy bullets fast. I loaded the 308 with a 208 A-MAX to 2650 FPS measured with my magnetospeed using RL-17, which is way too slow for most 308 loads, with amazing accuracy. I was loading at 2.930", which is also well above max OAL in the book, but it fit my rifle perfectly, with about 0.005" jump. Savage makes great rifles... :)
I was thinking this exact thing. I even came up with a name in case the ammo companies want to sell ammo for it…277 Winchester. Long throat, fast twist. If the military does a full adoption of the 277 fury, the public will too. Meaning more great 277 bullets will be coming. It may not getting it up to super billet barrel burning range but you have a nice feeding action with less recoil that the fatter cartridges.
The .270 was the smallest caliber we had in our white tail hunting group for about 40 years. It was considered the teenager round. Obviously, the market is much larger than we had in the cabin. Between the .308 and .270. I believe the .270 is a much better choice. But Than again, I used smaller rounds like the .30-.30 successfully. Iam just a suckered for the 3006. It's my confidence round. If it's not broke, why fix it?
You can still hand load the 160 grain Nosler Partition in the 270 Winchester. Its a semi spitzer so it will stabilize in the standard 1-10 twist barrels.
Loved the Win. 270 sence my grandfather gave me his 1958 Winchester M70. If you know, you know. I now hunt with a Tika t3 lite stainless. Love It. I load a Barnes LRX bullet (California). 129 grain, b.c. .463 at 3000fps. Max PBR is 315yards with a 7 inch target. Numbers at 300yards look like this. Drop -2.03, wind 5.18 @10mph 90*, energy 1780 foot lbs. What more do you need? All I know is, I eat good! Thanks Ron for the great content.
Ron, I’ve shot the same rifle since the mid-1970s: Remington 700 BDL, 270 Winchester. I initially fired 130-grain bullets since that was the most recommended. However, when I learned the advantage of reloading, I found my most accurate load was pushing Nosler 150-grain ballistic tip, using 52 grains IMR 4350. Providing I do my part, I can shoot ½ MOA. I’ve never had a deer walk or run after being shot. They all drop at the spot where they were shot, and as we say in Texas, DRT - Dead Right There! In retirement, I’ve considered hunting something as large as Elk or Moose. I am considering a new caliber if I am fortunate enough to score an Elk hunt. I am looking at the 300 PRC. Big enough to take anything on this continent and still have the reach for the occasional long-range target. Larry from Texas
@harryniedecken5321, I will ask that you grant this ole fart’s need for pontification in his older age. I perfectly understand the point you make about calibers big enough to hunt a T-Rex. However, you do provide me with a platform to diverge into matters that will generate much talk around the campfire while indulging in your favorite adult beverage. You are correct. A 375 H&H is definitely big medicine. A .416 Rigby is, too, but we are not hunting in Africa, and there is a decided penalty in recoil. The 375 has enough juice to take the largest North American Bear. But, then again, the 300 PRC is not a wimpy cartridge. It is my belief that bears can’t read ballistic tables, neither do they care if you can run the 100-yard dash in 9.1 seconds, nor if you have the ability to climb trees like the most agile monkeys. They have you beat in all categories. If you don't have an adequate firearm, your only hope is to outrun the hunting partner next to you. That said, after a quick search, Dr. Google tends to agree that the ft-lb energy needed to bring down a charging bear with attitude problems is around 2000 ft-lbs. Using solid bullets, the 375 can do that at up to 300 yards, the 416 adds another 50 yards (350), but the new kid on the block can accomplish this out to 480 yards. Admittedly, shooting a bear at 480 yards is not something I’ve heard much of, as most bear kills are 200 yards and under. But a charging bear can cover a lot of ground in a short time. If Mr. Bruin takes an unhealthy interest in the flavor of your backside, the additional range of the 300 PRC would be of great comfort. I have a bad habit of arguing with myself, so let's review. Punching a large 400-grain-sized hole into a bear’s tough body would be very satisfying, but as I stated, this comes with excessive recoil. Firing off one or two shots of 416 Rigby might not put you into traction, but to make use of the 416 superior firepower, you must be proficient with firing this canon. You must practice enough that you are accurate but not so much that you flinch every time you so much as look at the rifle hanging in your gun case. At 75 years old, I’m a bit more recoil-sensitive than I was in my twenties. The older I get, the more sensible my brother-in-law's .243 looks. The 375 H&H is probably the most popular caliber carried by those who often go into bear country, and I suspect you will see more professional guides in possession of this weapon. With far less recoil than the 416, the 375 is more manageable than the 416. Also, don’t overlook the fact that you can find ammunition for the 375 easier than the 416 and perhaps even the 300 PRC. Do you need the firepower of the 375 or 416? I suppose that depends on your comfort level with the difference between the two big boys and the much newer 300 PRC. I used the Serria Infinity program to compare the ballistics of the recommended factory loads using heavy, monolith bullets designed for deep penetration of all parts of a bear. The 300 PRC is a flatter-shooting, long-range cartridge that is inherently accurate and can turn out the lights of any bear. With proper bullet placement, hence the importance of being proficient with one’s favorite smoke pole, I don’t believe even the largest and most psychotic bear can tell the difference between the three cartridges. Dead is dead, and any of these three is more than capable of sending the meanest bear to the land of milk and honey. Again, I respect your viewpoint, and it is difficult to argue against you, so I hope we can still be friends should we find ourselves sitting around the same campfire. Larry from Texas … where the men are men, and the women are not, and we don’t need any stinking pronouns.
@@LarryLMelton Just finished enjoying a friendly campfire style beverage and really enjoyed reading your post. Similar to you, not so young anymore. Also have a rebuilt shoulder from a fall in my 30s. I run into the challenge on my end of living in a state that banned hunting with lead bullets, so a few years ago did a deep dive into what this really meant for my .270 , more or less the same as yours. This affected my thinking a lot, but essentially it meant moving up to a bigger hole for the same result. Probably not what they intended. The funny thing is that there is recoil energy which can hurt, but also impulse which is what I really notice, so a .308 hurts me much more than a .270. The bears that I worry about are the ones that show up 30 or 50 yards away, so reaction time is really not much. This happened to me in MN in a hotel parking lot and it is pretty exciting. Fortunately they were busy with the garage dumpster and I decided that taking it out wasn't all that important anymore. If you get a chance, try testing out some moderate loads ( not max out ones ) in that range. You might be impressed with how smooth the push is. Anyway, you are right and I have become biased toward the need to move up in hole size due to the copper requirements. I do fully recognize that various setups in the. 270 - 7mm - .30 cal variety can perform better, but I just can't mentally justify something unless it is "significantly different " vs just 10-25 % different if that makes sense. Have a great weekend and feel free to stop by for a beverage. Harry
@@harryniedecken5321 Harry, I just finished a glass of wine. Not the fancy stuff, which after COVID I no longer have a palette for, but common (read cheap) box wine, which has a reasonable amount of alcohol in it. I'm about to go to bed, but I'm feeling a bit bold (alcohol), so I want to express my all-around favorite close-quarter firearm, which, short of an RPG, has been shown to be an exterminator of all living things, human or animal. I base my opinion on 48 years of carrying a firearm in harm's way. I am a retired police officer, and I have experienced, personally and in death investigations, the power of a Remington Model 870 12 ga. using 1 oz slugs. It is devastating to flesh, engine blocks, and hinges on doors. If I were going into bear country and not hunting bears, it would be my bear medicine. It is a weapon that is accurate out to 100 yards, but specifically close range. I can pump out seven rounds of slug (extended magazine) in short order, and nothing on this continent can withstand that amount of lead downrange. There now, I've managed to bleed my excess testosterone, and I'll sleep well. Larry
Just had a .270 built with 1 and 8 twist on a Husqvarna H5000 action. Haven't got a chance to load for it or shoot it but I can't wait to play with it and see what I can get it to do. Love you videos and info and the way you present it, keep up the good work
One of the best just got more versatile. Your video, "Winchester in 2021" sums it well. Add the new variety to the market and these awesome cartridges are more amazing than EVER!
You nailed it on the heavier-weight bullets compared to the 150-grain loading. The thing people forget is that the job of the hunting rifle is to bring down the quarry as fast as possible. A lighter, faster bullet may be more lethal than a heavier, slower bullet. Drag and wind deflection aren't things that game is concerned about.
I've been nerding out with the ballistics programs for years. The heavy, high bc bullets don't always give you what you think they will until you get past 800 - 1,000 yards. If there's no advantage until you're way past any realistic hunting distance, there is no advantage. I think the advantage with the super long-for-caliber bullets comes in when you're hunting large-for-caliber game at realistic hunting distances. They penetrate really well. But you gotta have a twist that will make them shoot straight, so thank you Browning!
I love the 270 win 140 g hornady superperformance load. 3090 ft/s at muzzle. 2968 muzzle energy. BC is a little low at .495. However, I hunt in CO - elk at about 8000 ft. elevation. Deer at about 4000 ft. Based on Strelock calculations, I still have 1491 ft. lb of energy at 600 yds at my elk hunting altitude. Over 1000 ft lbs of energy at 800 yds at my deer hunting altitude. Both of those distance are well out of my comfort zone. I might take a 400 yr shot if I have ideal conditions and an excellent rest to stabilize the gun.
I also hunt elk in Colorado where I live. The 130 and 140 grain bullets have humanely harvested a lot of elk here. I don't use one but my son uses his to great affect.
@@ronlowney4700 My first aftermarket custom barrels were Shilens. My first every 1 hole caliber size 5 shot grp was from a 7mmRemMag, 24" #4 Shilen barrel, 150 gr Nosler Btips of a healthy dose of IMR4831. I've had excellent success with Shilens. Both of my 280 Rem have 24" #3 contour Shilens. I don't like any one barrel make over the other if it will shoot to my satisfaction. The thing about my Hart barreled 270 is I can't find anything it doesn't like - all sub MOA
Amen brother! You answered a question on this inepisode 77 :) the manufacturers *sometimes* listen. We have the "rise and fall 6.5 CM" to thank for teaching a lesson about group think and herd mentality about the latest and greatest versus the tried and true.
To really take advantage of a fast-twist 270 WSM, it needs to be in a standard action so more of the bullet can be out of the case. In a true short action the ogive will be limited to a max of .76" as opposed to the .935" of the 6.8 Western.
@@jfess1911 does the bullet really need to be out of the case more... I would think you just set them in farther ofcourse the real issues is if the contour of the bullet will tell how far it can set back.
@@timbjork2098 It depends on the bullet, but seating longer gives more powder capacity anyway. The problem is the short ogive in the 270 WSM spec that only allows the bullet to extend 0.76" from the case. That is a pretty short ogive, and even slightly shorter than the 270's 0.8". The easiest way around that is to load long, if the cartridge still fits, that is. Some 6.8 Western bullets, for example can have an ogive of 0.935". The 6.8 Western is just a 270 WSM modified to use longer, heavier bullets. When a 270 WSM is in a long enough action, it could use those bullets too.
🕵️♂️ FYI: "Frontline Rejects" recently did a video on using his 270 wsm and 1 in 10 twist barrel shooting a 165 grain Nosler ABLR bullet accurately (out to 500 yards) with a velocity of 2,980 ft/s! That ought to work for you, right? 🤷♂️
Thanks for the info on the new fast twist. Wondered for a long time about faster twist 270's. Have an older, push feed M70 270 which came to me directly from the head gunsmith at Winchester after some serious safety problems with a special order 300 H&H. Very, very accurate. Gave it to my older son who later returned it to me when he moved out of country and could not own guns (love wins out). After spending numerous hours at our club's sight-in days for deer season, I have concluded very, very few hunters are capable of shooting at anything over a couple of hundred yards, two hundred at the most, regardless of the new and improved equipment they possess. Many brought long range guns with huge scopes and could barely sight them in at 100 yds. Many were overgunned and afraid of the recoil and noise. Most hunted where 100 yds was long but they still had these expensive long range magnum guns. Why? (Live in the U.P. of Mi., most shots are close, but there are still a number of places locally where shots of 200+ yds occur.) Today, there is too much emphasis on equipment which allows hunters to kill at 500+ yds. This seems to be the case with most of the present day gun writers which too many hunters eat up and think the equipment makes them long range competent. Nonsense! Few can use the fast twist 270 effectively. Is good to have it available for those few though. Can see where the heavy bullets can be a better option on larger game at reasonable ranges taking the 270 up a notch in killing power...at reasonable ranges. Still think the standard 270 is a great cartridge for the vast majority of shooters. I like it. Never let me down. I understand your explanation of ballistics at 600 for comparson purposes, but I believe most emphasis should be placed on the shorter ranges, like the 300 you referred to. Thanks for mentioning ranges most hunters use and are capable of shooting. FWIW.
I always wonder why guys think they need a 800 yard rifle for elk hunting when archery elk season is a thing. I’ve concluded that they’re great shooters, and absolutely dreadfully, embarrassingly, laughably bad hunters.
I harvested the two largest elk I ever took with a 139 gr. bullet and a 140 grain bullet from a .275 Rigby. It does not have the velocity of the .270 so I'm sure the .270 with take whatever you want with the smaller bullets. My son sure does. The .275 Rigby is a .284 diameter bullet.
Well it’s about bloody time someone brought out a fast twist 270 Win factory rifle. The bullet manufacturers have been slow to producing bullets suitable for a fast twist 270 Winchester cartridge. It seems like the rifle and bullet manufacturers have been holding off making rifles and bullets until one or the other started producing them before they also got into the act. I have been wanting someone to make a feast twist 270 win and bullets since the early 1990s. It’s been a long wait.
Great information Ron! I especially appreciate the comparisons and data you present in your videos. I think I will continue to be satisfied with my .270 Winchester as is; pretty much the same with my old 30-06. There are a lot of good or even great cartridges out there now, some I have experimented with and shot, but there is no reason to quit on these two "old" calibers.
I have a load for 150 grain 270 win that one of my dad's friends worked up for him years ago. It took them months to customize that load to the gun (Winchester model 70 featherweight), and to this day even when I play with newer powders and bullets for it their load still rains supreme for deer hunting. I can't deny it just has that perfect combo and drops big whitetail on the spot! Sure does kick like a mule in that rifle though, so I would avoid handing it to a first time shooter!
Not sure it made much of a difference, but I always liked that Remington and Howa offered 308 Win as 1:10 and Sako/Tikka as 1:11, but Wincester/Browning stuck with 1:12.
I called this a couple years ago....that the best way to resurrect old cartridges is twist them faster. That doesn't do anything for pushing the shoulder's back but loaders will come up with some magic.
🤷♂️ It just depends upon what species you are hunting as to what weight bullet you would choose! Both work fine and I have almost 1/2 century of experience with using both! 🤑
I load the Sierra 140 grain Tipped Game King. With a claimed BC of near .500 and damn good accuracy, i think, in the words of Vinnie, "...you'll be more than pleased."
🕵️♂️ Hummm...well I prefer the 136 grain Lost River J-36 bullet (B.C. 0.650) with Reloader 26, going 3,150 ft/s! At 500 yards, it is still carrying around 2,000 ft lbs of energy! Run the numbers in the Horneday Ballistics Calculator and see for yourself just how good the performance is with your hunting conditions, as a comparison to what you've suggested! 🤑
Used 270 Winchester since early 80s with PERFECT results on whitetails. With 30-06s, 338s, 45-70, 30-30s etc my 1st choice is my Sako finnlight in 270 win.... Drops deer fast, really fast.... Low recoil for precision shots, flat trajectory and plenty of power... Alot of so called better cartridges have come and gone since the 270 win was introduced in 1925, but I can honestly say at ranges up to 500 yards it gets the job done period....
I thought this was going to be a game changer.. we often talk about how new cartridges are essentially a fast twist option of an old cartridge. But it seems that might not always be the case. Case design and case capacity matters. Great video as always
Nothing is really "changing the game" though. Physics is physics and animals aren't being dropped any quicker now than they were 100 years ago. Hyperbole is fun to read though.
@Jay Dunbar I've tried to find scientific experimentation to demonstrate this to no avail. As would be expected. The case could be a sphere, would make no practical difference and I'm not convinced of even an observable difference.
The advertised BC for the 150 grain bullet looks high. Apparently when Bryan Litz shot the 150 ABLR from a 1:10 twist barrel, he got a significantly lower BC than advertised ( 0.278 G7 BC vs advertised 0.317). It seems the bullet was still wobbling a bit. He got better numbers using a faster twist (0.291 G7), but still well below advertised .
@@ronlowney4700 This is getting entertaining. Read the comments again. Nobody even vaguely implied that these cartridges are bad. They are indeed very good. They both were also designed to be long-range hunting cartridges when 500 yards was considered VERY long range. The actual BC's of the .277" ABLR's are very good, just not as good as advertised, at least not when shot from these cartridges. Numerous measurements from actual shooting tests show this. Do you have doppler radar data showing otherwise? Please stop embarrassing yourself and look up who Litz is (hint: considered one of the top ballistic experts in the world, wrote numerous books on bullets and ballistics and is the Coach and former team member of the US Rifle Team). He has published actual shooting results of hundreds of bullets in his books. It was Litz who published data that showed that some bullets, while accurate, are still wobbling slightly at certain twist rates. Increasing twist lets them fly straighter and with a lower effective BC.
🕵️♂️ Is his trophy room as good as mine? Also, Lost River Bullets made bullets for our military! The 136 grain 0.277 bullet has a B.C. of 0.65 and, using Reloader 26, I can push it out of the Muzzle at 3,150 ft/s! Run the Numbers and see for yourself how "it" performs? 🤑
@@ronlowney4700 Do you have any trophies from international shooting competitions? Have you ever held any US shooting records? Have you designed bullets for Berger (or air-to air missiles for the US Air Force)? Are you considered one of the top in your field internationally with books published in several languages? Hell, Lost River actually uses Litz's information to design their bullets. You are WAY out of your league here and well on your way to being a meme and laughingstock.
🕵️♂️ To show you exactly how "Rediculous" your argument is, what did World Renowned U.S. Sniper Carlos Hathcock hunt with? The answer is a 30-06 and a straight fixed power scope! Was he concerned about using a high B.C. bullets out of his 30-06! Nope! The modern 270 Bullets have much higher B.C.'s than anything he ever used in his 30-06 (either for hunting or sniping)! 😳 He was "Successful", because he could shoot! 😯 Their is no "Substitute" (Short Cut) for Brains and Skills! 🤥 Nope! 🤠
🧐 Put Carlos Hathcock up against Bryan Litz (Or Myself against You) with a "plane Jane 30-06" and a straight power scope (Hathcock used a Straight 8 power scope) and Who Would Win? Without your "Ballistics Drop Compensator" (What are you all "COMPENSATING FOR", besides lack of skill?😂); no range with the distance already marked or lazer range finder (because, unlike me, who was a distance runner and nearly a 4 minute miler, so I can actually judge distances); Larger and Flatter Shooting Calibers with attached Muzzle Breaks (unlike me, who used to bench press nearly 3 times my body weight and can "Handle" The Recoil); or a spotter and a higher powered scope (I am not using any "crutches" or someone else's "knowledge" and "abilities"), Who Would Win? That would be Carlos and Myself, because we don't "Substitute" Gear for Skill! 🎯 The "Truth" is that "You Aren't Man Enough to Be My Woman! 🤣
Great episode. I'm a fan of the .270 Win and the old .30-06 Spfld and walnut stocks, but if I were buying a new rifle today then I'd have a hard time not going with 7mm PRC in a tupperware stock.
What's the point in killing the beauty of the .270 Winchester for getting the performance of a 6.5 Creedmoor? I'd stick to the 130 grain bullets and take advantage of the extended MPBR, which in many situations is more desirable than a slower high BC bullet.
🤣 The 270 Winchester will make that 6.5 "NEEDSMORE" eat it's lunch! 🔥 Their is No comparison in either performance or versatility (a wider range if bullet weights), because the 270 Winchester wins every time! 🥇
MPBR is the most foolproof way of getting clean kills. That's why I'm such a fan of 243 and 270. I've always used 130 for elk. It works reliably with a bonded bullet. I'll take the flat trajectory over increased energy every time
Corrections for you Ron. The highest weight 277 hammer hunter bullet (their high-bc line) that is rated for 1-10” is the 124 gr Hammer Hunter. With 1-7.5” you can go as high as 162 gr. You know how to find the sweet spot by just doing the calculations for the different bullets at different ranges, but I think 450 should be your long range benchmark for a hunting bullet since that’s your espoused maximum shooting range. I think it would be best to look at 150-300-450 for your comparisons. Fast twist 270 may have a sweet spot somewhere in the 130s, but honestly for hammers it could be the 117 gr. You need to pick the range you want to optimize for and compare the offerings. For example, in 7mm for absolute hammers the 140 gr is about optimal from about 400 and in because it’s about the maximum of “functional ballistics” when considering bc and velocity you get from about 280 Rem to 7 PRC. The bc really drops off on the lighter bullets while the velocities are notably lower in the 154-155 offerings. However, for copper I would always skew lighter. I would rather have a bullet that is worse 400 but can still get the job done while requiring far less adjustment hitting considerably harder at 250 and in because it’s leaving the barrel at 200-400 fps faster. We love to fantasize about that long range cross canyon shot, but optimizing for a shot you’ll be taking less than 5% of the time seems like a fool’s errand. Optimize for the 95% while still being able to get the job done for those long shots rather than the other way around.
Ron's analysis of 150 grain 270 bullets versus heavy, high B.C. 270 bullets for hunting applications (focused on energy) at sane distances is spot on. But what if we extend the tale of the tape out a few hundred more yards to see the difference B.C. makes? For my purposes and values, a better comparison to the 270 than new and insanely overbore 27 caliber cartridges is something like the 6.5 Creedmoor. The 165 grain offerings Ron is analyzing for the 270 compare very well in speed and B.C. to 143 grain offerings in the 6.5 Creedmoor. These new 270 bullet bullets paired with fast twist barrels make the 270 Winchester an excellent choice for target applications while taking nothing away from it for hunting applications. What is exciting to me about fast twist 270 barrels and high B.C. 270 bullets is not the difference they can make for the old 270 Win for hunting at sane distances. Ron accurately points out that the difference within 600 yards is negligible. However, it is exciting to consider what the new, high B.C. Bullets can do for 270 Win shooters who want to make really efficient long range target guns out of their old 270s without retooling their reloading set-up. The cost to re-barrel my old 270 Winchester and buy a box of high B.C. 270 bullets is much less than buying a new 6.5 Creedmoor rifle, a new set of dies, new brass, new bullets, and different powders. I submit that a refreshed 270 Winchester is a more versatile tool for a target and hunting rig than a 6.5 Creedmoor. I can now successfully be a one-gun, one-load 270 Winchester man with a bullet like the 165 ABLR. Really exciting! I'm grateful for the 6.8 Western, 277 Sig Fury, and 27 Nosler. I'll never own any of them, but their existence has breathed new life into my dear old 270 Winchester. All things considered, a modernized 270 Winchester sets a higher standard than ever for efficiency and utility. My $.02.
My deer hunting partner once shot a huge porcupine with his 270 Winchester and turned the critter into 5 big separate hunks of former porcupine. That impressed the heck out of me.
Does twist rate really matter? I recently saw a video of a man shooting 55 grain and 72 grain, both in 1in 7 and both in 1in 12. Way out to 500+ yards there was no difference
I load .270 with Nosler 150 balistic tips IMR 4064. very accurate and is a beast on whitetails. sub MOA all day any day. more the riffle than me, she's a good one.
A fast twist 270 , well now the 6.5 crapmore is now obsolete !……. Sorry , the truth is not always pleasant !….. Thanks Ron for all your hard work for us !
@@Lexidezi225 Exactly , these people bought into the hype and that’s why the pond shops and gun shop used racks are full of 6.5 crapmores ! Oh too soon ?………
🕵️♂️ I have talked to several people using the 165 grain Nosler ABLR's and Reloader 26 that are getting 2,900+ ft/s out of their 270 Winchesters! Just thought you might like to know that? 🤷♂️
Got to remember you have more options on newer powders. Not surprised Browning/Winchester introducing the faster twist rates because of what Hornady and others have done by bypassing the 68 Western with they're line of PRC ammo.
@@jmgates09 hornady will as soon as there is sufficient demand for them to make the investment, and thus far Winchester and browning have seemed to stop pushing the push for it so why should hornady do their job for them.
Love the .270 win. Had a tikka t3 in .270 and it loved the 130 gn Nosler BT bulets. Now there are higher BC bullets for the .270 im tginking about purchasing a Browning Western Hunter Long Range rifle. 24 inch barrel with a 7 inch twist 😊 Be nice to try and work some loads with some nosler 170 grain BTs and the 165 grain accubond.
C'mon Ron. The 270 is never going to die. It is a very good cartridge and rifle combination. The current standard twist rates (1:10) match the current max bullet weights of 150gr are fine and nothing needs to be done. Custom barrels of 1:8 or 1:9 have been available for decades and have been used for heavier 175gr + bullets. Their BCs are good, their SDs are good but the velocities are low (ish) and so they are not quite so flat shooting. Change the case from 473 to 512 and the velocity problem goes away, but there is more recoil and you now have a 270 PRC, or a 68 Western or a 7 PRC. All in the same ball-park.
I don't understand the infatuation with having a fast twist barrel. The 270 Winchester case isn't designed for the long high Bc bullets. If that's what someone wants, why not just buy a 6.8 Western that already has a case designed to shoot long sleek heavier bullets. For the average hunter that keeps their shots under 400 yards, shooting high bc bullets and having a fast twist barrel doesn't gain you anything. Now, if you're a long range shooter, then it definitely makes sense. I think the 270 Winchester is perfect the way it is. A 150 grain partition will take any elk or moose with proper shot placement.
🕵️♂️ Why not the 6.8 Western? Because the 6.8 Western isn't performing at the advertised velocities! The 270 Winchester can come within 50 ft/s in velocity, have 1 more round in the magazine, is cheaper to shoot, and does it with about 5 ft lbs of less recoil! That is a Big reason Why the 6.8 Western isn't selling! The other reason is the 7mm prc! The 6.8 Western is essentially dying as we speak! 💀
The 6.8 Western isn't doing well because Winchester's marketing team isn't very good, not because it's not a good cartridge. If you are going to a fast twist 270 Winchester, you're defeating the purpose that it was designed to do which is high velocity for delivering hydrostatic shock and quick kills on game. I'm talking strictly from a hunting perspective. I see no need to have a fast twist 270 to shoot high bc bullets. People are too wrapped up in that nonsense unless of course you shoot past 500 yards on regular basis and practice a lot. Otherwise you aren't gaining anything when it comes to hunting at reasonable distances. The 7mm prc will be a flash in the pan too. The long range crowd will jump on it but I'm sure most people who already have a 7mm rem mag aren't getting rid of it for a cartridge that's harder to find ammo for. The Prc cartridges don't interest me whatsoever. From a hunting perspective, they don't do anything that other cartridges don't do that have been around a lot longer. Out to 400 yards which I'm comfortable shooting at, the 6.5 prc isn't better than my 264 win mag or 270 Winchester. The 7mm prc isn't better than my 7mm wsm and the 300 prc isn't better than my 300 win mag.
🕵️♂️ You "Assumed" incorrectly! I want to shoot the 165 grain Nosler ABLR out of my 270 Winchester at "Reasonable Ranges", at elk, to retire my 30-06 and just use 1 gun! The 150's (Nosler ABLR) is a better "long range bullet", just like Ron said! Be careful what you "Assume", as you were Wrong! 🤪
What exactly am I assuming? You are probably in the minority with wanting to retire your 30-06. Why would you do that anyway? I would want to use every gun I own for something. Explain to me what I'm wrong on since you apparently know everything. I think you are just blowing smoke and are full of a lot of hot air.
Imagine what the 6.8 western could have been if they loaded it for the entire .277 projectile selection. With the lighter 130, 140, and 150gr bullets it would almost duplicate 270wsm. 200ish fps faster than a standard 270 and very flat. Perfect for deer and pronghorn sized game. Then load it up with the big heavy 160, 165, and 170gr bullets and you have you have a great round for elk, bear and other big game. It really could be the one .277 cartridge to do it all.
I used to be a real velocity kind of guy, but then I hunted many animals for many years and have changed the way I think about external ballistics. I agree with GunBlue490 when he says the sweet velocity is from 2700 fps to 2900 fps and a good sectional density in the bullet for the game you are pursuing. I tend to be able to eat more of the meat with the less capillary damage caused at those velocities. I believe if I can't get within an ethical shooting distance then I'm not much of a hunter. In my opinion the advent of the range finder has made almost all rifles long range shooters if you have any idea of the ballistics of your firearm. You know there has been a lot of people taking up the old 45/70 again and they tend to believe that old pumpkin thrower is a long range rifle and it's pretty slow.
I never thought about that but I believe you are right. The 6.8 western if given the whole variety of bullet weights would probably take the biggest range of hunting. Light bullets for even coyotes and the heaviest could probably handle anything that walks in North American. They probably have a home run but only went to first base. I think they are missing the boat.
@@russellkeeling4387yer the ol’ sharps was considered a long range rifle back in the day but even with a range finder the trajectory of 600gn .458 bullet isn’t very forgiving and takes a lot of skill to shoot.
Best sensible comparison I’ve seen. 270 was well designed and effective which is why it’s been so long lived. Best for everything? Nope. Effective on most everything? Yep
I have 2 boxes of .277 160gn Nosler Partition projectiles from the 70s or 80s. I just don't have a reason to reload them now, but I will never part with them. I use the 150gn Nosler Partition now because I can find them from time to time.
🤣Though I Love my 270 Winchester, the only "Thor's Hammer" on game is the "Thor's Hammer"! How do I know? Because I was the one who was the first to have/invented the "Thor's Hammer" Cartridge! 😜
I've never owned a .270, I've always been interested in it as I've got friends who love it. The new 6.8 Western has a lot of appeal. It's one of those "you can't go wrong with it" calibers of with there are several. The .277 Fury is a bit of an enigma. Politically driven comes to mind. Most manufactures could make a bolt gun to handle the 80,000 psi pressures without a lot of modification. i think it was a goofy choice and will be changed. They really, really need to talk to the guys in the field more often. Thanks Ron, you always give us good content.
Wish you had focused more on the comparison between .270 fast twist and the 6.8 Western for long distance shooting. That's a good comparison, because that is often the choice hunters think about.
G. Kim Prince, Retired USMC I watched your program on the new .270 Winchester. I've been shooting the .270 Winchester Copper Impact at the range. Using 130 grain bullet, Velocity is around 3000, at 500 yards about 1970, Energy is about 2590, at 500 yards about 1120. I have very good results- low recoil for me (I'm 88 years young). It is true about the rifle you use, my Vanguard shoots my listing. I've shot a Mossberg and Ruger, very close but a noticable difference, the Vanguard was better (I'm biased).I just thought you'd like this info for your records.
😳 I went to their website and they do have faster 1 in 8 twist barrels, for their 6.5's (like the 6.5 prc), but they aren't chambering anything in the 270 Winchester, from what I could see in any of their model 90's! 😭
I came to a similar conclusion a few years ago when i was thinking of having a custom barrel and saw that a faster twist was available in a .277 bore. At the time i was comparing it to the 6.8 Western and with heavy bullets 270 Win cannot keep up. I ended up loading the Hornady 145 eld-x in my existing 270 and it has been a great compromise of decent BC without giving up all the velocity. Now I would be more likely to do a 7 PRC as it is capable of using high BC bullets at moderately high velocities with reasonable recoil. Its really similar to the 6.8 Western but 7mm bullets offer more options and the pronghorn, deer and elk can't tell a .007 inch difference anyway.
True that wouldn't any game tell the difference 7prc is a great cartridge I have one in the cheap mossberg but I like the 6.8 western better wish all the companies would get off they high horse n make some rifles and ammo in it my buddy has one in a xbolt and it might be my favorite rifle I've ever shot but I'm scared to get one cause it's just not getting any support from anyone I don't even see any ammo from winchester on the shelves for it anymore
Encourage you to license a copy of QuickLoad and run some numbers. A properly chambered, fast-twist 270 Win is within 100 fps of the 6.8 Western in the long-for-caliber bullets. You'd be hard pressed to find a practical situation where you could tell the difference.
let's be honesty the 270 win 308 and 30.06 arnt going anywhere. Every local ammo supplier has these cartridges on the shelves. They have put more venison on the table than the prc cartridges or creedmoor could dream of.
A relative of mine built a .270 AI with a 26 inch 1:7 1/2 twist barrel and a long throat back in the 90's when he blew out his shoulder and couldn't shoot his 7 mag anymore, to this day that is one of the best rifles I've ever shot and hunted with. It fed a little funny until he put a Mauser action on it and I don't remember how fast it was but with a 150 grain Nosler Accubond that thing had a point blank range of about 325 to 330 yards with 200 yard zero and would print clovers at 300 yards consistently so if you missed it was 100% your fault. Since he refused to make another one or part with his I'm kind of excited to see where this goes.
🤠 Yes, Ron, I only want the heavier 270 bullets so that I can hunt Bigger Animals, like Bison and Moose at close range and just retire my 30-06! 👴 I Love the 30-06 performance too, but it really tops out at 168 grains for long range hunting! For that, I would rather use my 270 Winchester and a well constructed 150 grain bullet! As I said in the podcast, the Reloader 26 Website shows that you can get between 3,020 ft/s and 3,040 ft/s with every 150 grain bullet (like the good old Nosler Partition too)! So, you are right, the 150 grain bullet is still the best long range option for the 270 Winchester! 😁👍
I don't really agree the 168 grain bullet is the top for long range shooting in the 30-06 unless your intention is to shoot at animals beyond ethical ranges.
I won't shoot anything over 500 yards! But, Nosler also makes the 190 grain ABLR bullet, which is perfect for elk! You may want to give that a try? 🤷♂️
Long live the .270 Win.!
It is fun to shoot. just got a couple for the family this year.
Amen
I got a 270 Ruger American with a Boyd stock for my first deer/ boy game rifle
It has been around a long time and will be around for a lot longer , way longer than the crapmore cartridges !……
The 270 will never die. Fantastic cartridge
Yeah these new cartridges are "better" but remember the sheer amount of 270s out there.
I agree with you Jeff.
I've used my .270 for 50 years and never felt I needed anything else for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, and wolves.
I have been shooting a .270 for over 60 yrs. This caliber has never failed me even on elk. Although I haven’t ever shot much over 200 yds with the belief that it was the effective range. Also, that a person needs to be a good enough hunter to get within good range. So, you have gotten me pretty excited to build a gun with this faster twist barrel.
up to 200 yards, most any high powered rifle will take elk. We in this industry love hyperbole, ha!
For the handloader, there are a few powders that get you over 3000 fps with 150 gr bullets in a 270 with a 22" bbl. If you've got a fast-twist 270 with a 25-26" bbl, 3000 fps with a 165 gr ABLR is safely doable. May want to run the drop and drift numbers on a .625 G1 BC at 3000 fps. Or you could shoot the 170 Berger with its. 662 G1 at slightly less than 3000 fps. A faster twist and a slightly longer barrel turns the 270 into a different animal.
Same w the .06. 26” barrel would give it 200 fps faster
Good point a good read is Berger’s loading manual longer throats. It’s why the 6.5 x55 shoots so well all of them I’ve had the throat is endless u run out of seating depth befor u hit the lands -.5 always
Rl 25,26 h1000 not much difference than the 6.5x06 I run 56 ish and 140 Berger vld rl 26 mines a .270
Spec case throat and seating depth so not the Sami
I stumbled across a Ruger American in .270 Win about 8 years at a price I could not pass up. One of the best impulse purchases I have ever made in my life. It has never let me down.
I am a .270 win fan two different rifles over the years I didn't think we could improve on perfection but there you go.
I concur. A faster twist would be a minimal improvement imo over .270 traditional twist. Moreover, faster twists can reduce barrel life and increase the odds of case rupture.
We dearly love our .270's, the Missus' is a 1949 "WCF" in a Fajen Sportsman stock we had fitted to her (she's 4'11") and mine is a 1952 Standard. Nothing beats the feel of an old Model 70 action.
I like the 1970-1980 era model rem 700 better I got a 1972 BDL 308 with jeweled bolt smooth as butter
Got a Fajen stock on my grandads old Rem 721. Favorite rifle hands down.
Glad you came back to compare the 150 vs heavier bullets. I was thinking the 270 Winchester just didn’t have enough horsepower to gain any advantage with the heavy bullets. Those belong in the bigger cartridges. I will keep my 10 inch twist 270 and not worry about it. As an added observation, the standard 22 inch barrel very seldom achieves the listed velocity. Mine is usually 100 FPS below rated velocity for both factory ammo and reloads.
Agreed
It is so nice to see you go in to great detail about the old stuff. It is amazing to see _how much more_ can be gotten from the _OLD STUFF,_ with a few changes.
Handloaders can extract a bit more out of those “obsolete” cartridges too.
Well said
Nice to see the .270 Winchester can still hold it's own against more modern era cartridges. I saw them work in the late 60s and they were real thumpers on deer and elk. Thank you for sharing your comparison findings!
I won't be around in twenty years but it would be interesting to see how many of these new fast twist rifles are still around then.
Yeah it's always great. My Remington is flat and accurate. The only reason I switched to 6.5CM is I like AR10 magazines. .308 drop is alot at distance but nothing impossible. As far as the drift is concerned for all those calibrs I think it's irrelevant because I'll never get it right anyways
ive seen it knock down deer for the last 20 years... my dads rifle
idk why these people are saying its old!! 150 grain pills around 3000 fps??? hell ya!
.
i wish i had that flat shooting 270 VS my 308 honestly lol
270 also has that 556 tumble/break-up at high velocity.... which just makes a mess of lungs/heart
@@kainhall Wondering where you get 150 grain 270 ammo with 3000 fps.
@@mikemegame1 For hunting, the drop isn't even a real true difference worth noting.
My 22" barrel and 1:10 twist is shooting 160 grain Nosler partitions out the spout at 2832 fps with accuracy. Pretty hard to improve on this in the real world.., Delighted that the skinnier and longer 270 bullets are finally getting respect, but when a bullet hits the meat, a 160 Nosler partition at these velocities and tight 100 yd groups is just fine. 56 grains of IMR 4831, CCI 200 primers. It will hit about 8" low at 300 yds and that is as far as i care to shoot. It will be carrying about 1600 ftlbs so no elk is safe. Remington 700
BDL left hand bolt.
The faster twist will be excellent for the new copper bullets. Seems to be negligible when comparing lead. Great video as always Ron.
Not true at all
Thank you
Agreed, but only when it comes to actually being able to stabilize them.
I think on a non-magnum like the 270 Win it creates a potential trap for many hunters.
Given that most copper bullets need at least need 2300 ft/s to have decent expansion, running heavier copper bullets will further decrease their max effective range.
@@nikos6220 except they are still traveling like a bat out of hell to reasonable distances.
@@texpatriot8462 - reasonable - is exactly my point. I ran it through a ballistics calculator. With a 24‘ barrel you‘ll be fine up to 300 yards. But no one will buy such a long barrel anymore in the new fast twist offerings. With 22‘ it’s more 250 yards.
But then why again am I shooting a long and sleek Long Range bullet?
Great video Ron! I've been considering getting a faster twist barrel for my 270 Tikka but this helped me solidify the confidence that I really don't Need that for my hunting purposes
Get the 270 wsm
The thing is, as a handloader, you don't have to shoot book OAL. If you get a barrel with a long throat, you can load that 270 much longer, use a slower powder, and push them heavy bullets fast. I loaded the 308 with a 208 A-MAX to 2650 FPS measured with my magnetospeed using RL-17, which is way too slow for most 308 loads, with amazing accuracy. I was loading at 2.930", which is also well above max OAL in the book, but it fit my rifle perfectly, with about 0.005" jump. Savage makes great rifles... :)
I was thinking this exact thing. I even came up with a name in case the ammo companies want to sell ammo for it…277 Winchester. Long throat, fast twist.
If the military does a full adoption of the 277 fury, the public will too. Meaning more great 277 bullets will be coming.
It may not getting it up to super billet barrel burning range but you have a nice feeding action with less recoil that the fatter cartridges.
Thank you!! Someone who knows what they’re talking about. I’ve heard these new browning rifles have longer throats and magazines to handle longer oal.
The .270 was the smallest caliber we had in our white tail hunting group for about 40 years. It was considered the teenager round. Obviously, the market is much larger than we had in the cabin. Between the .308 and .270. I believe the .270 is a much better choice. But Than again, I used smaller rounds like the .30-.30 successfully. Iam just a suckered for the 3006. It's my confidence round. If it's not broke, why fix it?
You can still hand load the 160 grain Nosler Partition in the 270 Winchester. Its a semi spitzer so it will stabilize in the standard 1-10 twist barrels.
Loved the Win. 270 sence my grandfather gave me his 1958 Winchester M70. If you know, you know. I now hunt with a Tika t3 lite stainless. Love It. I load a Barnes LRX bullet (California). 129 grain, b.c. .463 at 3000fps. Max PBR is 315yards with a 7 inch target. Numbers at 300yards look like this. Drop -2.03, wind 5.18 @10mph 90*, energy 1780 foot lbs. What more do you need? All I know is, I eat good! Thanks Ron for the great content.
yeah. never sell it. it is a heirloom.
I have a 270 wsm but i always go to my 270 just love that round. Great show as always thank you
Ron,
I’ve shot the same rifle since the mid-1970s: Remington 700 BDL, 270 Winchester. I initially fired 130-grain bullets since that was the most recommended. However, when I learned the advantage of reloading, I found my most accurate load was pushing Nosler 150-grain ballistic tip, using 52 grains IMR 4350. Providing I do my part, I can shoot ½ MOA. I’ve never had a deer walk or run after being shot. They all drop at the spot where they were shot, and as we say in Texas, DRT - Dead Right There!
In retirement, I’ve considered hunting something as large as Elk or Moose. I am considering a new caliber if I am fortunate enough to score an Elk hunt. I am looking at the 300 PRC. Big enough to take anything on this continent and still have the reach for the occasional long-range target.
Larry from Texas
Or something closer to 375 or 416 perhaps. There are big bears in those places.
@harryniedecken5321, I will ask that you grant this ole fart’s need for pontification in his older age. I perfectly understand the point you make about calibers big enough to hunt a T-Rex. However, you do provide me with a platform to diverge into matters that will generate much talk around the campfire while indulging in your favorite adult beverage.
You are correct. A 375 H&H is definitely big medicine. A .416 Rigby is, too, but we are not hunting in Africa, and there is a decided penalty in recoil. The 375 has enough juice to take the largest North American Bear. But, then again, the 300 PRC is not a wimpy cartridge. It is my belief that bears can’t read ballistic tables, neither do they care if you can run the 100-yard dash in 9.1 seconds, nor if you have the ability to climb trees like the most agile monkeys. They have you beat in all categories. If you don't have an adequate firearm, your only hope is to outrun the hunting partner next to you. That said, after a quick search, Dr. Google tends to agree that the ft-lb energy needed to bring down a charging bear with attitude problems is around 2000 ft-lbs.
Using solid bullets, the 375 can do that at up to 300 yards, the 416 adds another 50 yards (350), but the new kid on the block can accomplish this out to 480 yards. Admittedly, shooting a bear at 480 yards is not something I’ve heard much of, as most bear kills are 200 yards and under. But a charging bear can cover a lot of ground in a short time. If Mr. Bruin takes an unhealthy interest in the flavor of your backside, the additional range of the 300 PRC would be of great comfort.
I have a bad habit of arguing with myself, so let's review. Punching a large 400-grain-sized hole into a bear’s tough body would be very satisfying, but as I stated, this comes with excessive recoil. Firing off one or two shots of 416 Rigby might not put you into traction, but to make use of the 416 superior firepower, you must be proficient with firing this canon. You must practice enough that you are accurate but not so much that you flinch every time you so much as look at the rifle hanging in your gun case. At 75 years old, I’m a bit more recoil-sensitive than I was in my twenties. The older I get, the more sensible my brother-in-law's .243 looks.
The 375 H&H is probably the most popular caliber carried by those who often go into bear country, and I suspect you will see more professional guides in possession of this weapon. With far less recoil than the 416, the 375 is more manageable than the 416. Also, don’t overlook the fact that you can find ammunition for the 375 easier than the 416 and perhaps even the 300 PRC.
Do you need the firepower of the 375 or 416? I suppose that depends on your comfort level with the difference between the two big boys and the much newer 300 PRC. I used the Serria Infinity program to compare the ballistics of the recommended factory loads using heavy, monolith bullets designed for deep penetration of all parts of a bear. The 300 PRC is a flatter-shooting, long-range cartridge that is inherently accurate and can turn out the lights of any bear.
With proper bullet placement, hence the importance of being proficient with one’s favorite smoke pole, I don’t believe even the largest and most psychotic bear can tell the difference between the three cartridges. Dead is dead, and any of these three is more than capable of sending the meanest bear to the land of milk and honey.
Again, I respect your viewpoint, and it is difficult to argue against you, so I hope we can still be friends should we find ourselves sitting around the same campfire.
Larry from Texas … where the men are men, and the women are not, and we don’t need any stinking pronouns.
@@LarryLMelton Just finished enjoying a friendly campfire style beverage and really enjoyed reading your post. Similar to you, not so young anymore. Also have a rebuilt shoulder from a fall in my 30s.
I run into the challenge on my end of living in a state that banned hunting with lead bullets, so a few years ago did a deep dive into what this really meant for my .270 , more or less the same as yours.
This affected my thinking a lot, but essentially it meant moving up to a bigger hole for the same result. Probably not what they intended.
The funny thing is that there is recoil energy which can hurt, but also impulse which is what I really notice, so a .308 hurts me much more than a .270.
The bears that I worry about are the ones that show up 30 or 50 yards away, so reaction time is really not much. This happened to me in MN in a hotel parking lot and it is pretty exciting. Fortunately they were busy with the garage dumpster and I decided that taking it out wasn't all that important anymore.
If you get a chance, try testing out some moderate loads ( not max out ones ) in that range. You might be impressed with how smooth the push is.
Anyway, you are right and I have become biased toward the need to move up in hole size due to the copper requirements. I do fully recognize that various setups in the. 270 - 7mm - .30 cal variety can perform better, but I just can't mentally justify something unless it is "significantly different " vs just 10-25 % different if that makes sense.
Have a great weekend and feel free to stop by for a beverage. Harry
@@harryniedecken5321 Harry, I just finished a glass of wine. Not the fancy stuff, which after COVID I no longer have a palette for, but common (read cheap) box wine, which has a reasonable amount of alcohol in it. I'm about to go to bed, but I'm feeling a bit bold (alcohol), so I want to express my all-around favorite close-quarter firearm, which, short of an RPG, has been shown to be an exterminator of all living things, human or animal. I base my opinion on 48 years of carrying a firearm in harm's way. I am a retired police officer, and I have experienced, personally and in death investigations, the power of a Remington Model 870 12 ga. using 1 oz slugs. It is devastating to flesh, engine blocks, and hinges on doors. If I were going into bear country and not hunting bears, it would be my bear medicine. It is a weapon that is accurate out to 100 yards, but specifically close range. I can pump out seven rounds of slug (extended magazine) in short order, and nothing on this continent can withstand that amount of lead downrange.
There now, I've managed to bleed my excess testosterone, and I'll sleep well.
Larry
Cracking cartridge the 270 win had one for a number of years does the job well great video once again thank you Ron 👍👍
I built a custom 6.8 Western last year running 175's at 2810fps and it's an absolute hammer!
Great Show. Been calling them on this , wonderful news.
Bonded ballistic tip? Seen elk stopped cold with a 270 just fine
Just had a .270 built with 1 and 8 twist on a Husqvarna H5000 action. Haven't got a chance to load for it or shoot it but I can't wait to play with it and see what I can get it to do. Love you videos and info and the way you present it, keep up the good work
nice. been thinking of 1:9 but doing AI for some extra capacity with 165gr
I have a Husqvarna rebarreled in 270 with a 1 in 9 twist. Accurate!
Update?!
One of the best just got more versatile. Your video, "Winchester in 2021" sums it well. Add the new variety to the market and these awesome cartridges are more amazing than EVER!
You nailed it on the heavier-weight bullets compared to the 150-grain loading. The thing people forget is that the job of the hunting rifle is to bring down the quarry as fast as possible. A lighter, faster bullet may be more lethal than a heavier, slower bullet. Drag and wind deflection aren't things that game is concerned about.
Thank you for continuing to teach that lower weight copper bullets can perform as equivalent to heavier traditional lead bullets.
I've been nerding out with the ballistics programs for years. The heavy, high bc bullets don't always give you what you think they will until you get past 800 - 1,000 yards. If there's no advantage until you're way past any realistic hunting distance, there is no advantage. I think the advantage with the super long-for-caliber bullets comes in when you're hunting large-for-caliber game at realistic hunting distances. They penetrate really well. But you gotta have a twist that will make them shoot straight, so thank you Browning!
Will never replace my 1925 model 54, best 270 ever made. Nothing but one shot kills on every type of game I hunt.
I love the 270 win 140 g hornady superperformance load. 3090 ft/s at muzzle. 2968 muzzle energy. BC is a little low at .495. However, I hunt in CO - elk at about 8000 ft. elevation. Deer at about 4000 ft. Based on Strelock calculations, I still have 1491 ft. lb of energy at 600 yds at my elk hunting altitude. Over 1000 ft lbs of energy at 800 yds at my deer hunting altitude. Both of those distance are well out of my comfort zone. I might take a 400 yr shot if I have ideal conditions and an excellent rest to stabilize the gun.
I also hunt elk in Colorado where I live. The 130 and 140 grain bullets have humanely harvested a lot of elk here. I don't use one but my son uses his to great affect.
My 270wby and 270win are of my favorite rifles
270 Win, 25.5" Hart barrel, nearly 60 gr Superformance powder, 130 Barnes TTSX, 3380fps
😁👍🔥
So, is it the Lilija or Hart barrel that you like best? Have you tried Schilen barrels yet? 🤷♂️
@@ronlowney4700 My first aftermarket custom barrels were Shilens. My first every 1 hole caliber size 5 shot grp was from a 7mmRemMag, 24" #4 Shilen barrel, 150 gr Nosler Btips of a healthy dose of IMR4831. I've had excellent success with Shilens. Both of my 280 Rem have 24" #3 contour Shilens. I don't like any one barrel make over the other if it will shoot to my satisfaction. The thing about my Hart barreled 270 is I can't find anything it doesn't like - all sub MOA
👍 Schilen used to work for Hart barrels, so that is why I asked! 😯
I'll never be without a 270
Suppressed Remington Model 700 chambered in .270 is my EDC.
Agree. There shall always be a .270Win in my hunting setup.
Amen brother! You answered a question on this inepisode 77 :) the manufacturers *sometimes* listen. We have the "rise and fall 6.5 CM" to thank for teaching a lesson about group think and herd mentality about the latest and greatest versus the tried and true.
It's time to fast twist the the 270 WSM and 270 Weatherby.
To really take advantage of a fast-twist 270 WSM, it needs to be in a standard action so more of the bullet can be out of the case. In a true short action the ogive will be limited to a max of .76" as opposed to the .935" of the 6.8 Western.
@@jfess1911 does the bullet really need to be out of the case more... I would think you just set them in farther ofcourse the real issues is if the contour of the bullet will tell how far it can set back.
@@timbjork2098 It depends on the bullet, but seating longer gives more powder capacity anyway. The problem is the short ogive in the 270 WSM spec that only allows the bullet to extend 0.76" from the case. That is a pretty short ogive, and even slightly shorter than the 270's 0.8". The easiest way around that is to load long, if the cartridge still fits, that is.
Some 6.8 Western bullets, for example can have an ogive of 0.935". The 6.8 Western is just a 270 WSM modified to use longer, heavier bullets. When a 270 WSM is in a long enough action, it could use those bullets too.
🕵️♂️ FYI: "Frontline Rejects" recently did a video on using his 270 wsm and 1 in 10 twist barrel shooting a 165 grain Nosler ABLR bullet accurately (out to 500 yards) with a velocity of 2,980 ft/s! That ought to work for you, right? 🤷♂️
Boy that Nosler is a damn hammer. I also like that Western.
Thanks for the info on the new fast twist. Wondered for a long time about faster twist 270's.
Have an older, push feed M70 270 which came to me directly from the head gunsmith at Winchester after some serious safety problems with a special order 300 H&H. Very, very accurate. Gave it to my older son who later returned it to me when he moved out of country and could not own guns (love wins out).
After spending numerous hours at our club's sight-in days for deer season, I have concluded very, very few hunters are capable of shooting at anything over a couple of hundred yards, two hundred at the most, regardless of the new and improved equipment they possess. Many brought long range guns with huge scopes and could barely sight them in at 100 yds. Many were overgunned and afraid of the recoil and noise. Most hunted where 100 yds was long but they still had these expensive long range magnum guns. Why? (Live in the U.P. of Mi., most shots are close, but there are still a number of places locally where shots of 200+ yds occur.)
Today, there is too much emphasis on equipment which allows hunters to kill at 500+ yds. This seems to be the case with most of the present day gun writers which too many hunters eat up and think the equipment makes them long range competent. Nonsense!
Few can use the fast twist 270 effectively. Is good to have it available for those few though. Can see where the heavy bullets can be a better option on larger game at reasonable ranges taking the 270 up a notch in killing power...at reasonable ranges. Still think the standard 270 is a great cartridge for the vast majority of shooters. I like it. Never let me down.
I understand your explanation of ballistics at 600 for comparson purposes, but I believe most emphasis should be placed on the shorter ranges, like the 300 you referred to. Thanks for mentioning ranges most hunters use and are capable of shooting.
FWIW.
I always wonder why guys think they need a 800 yard rifle for elk hunting when archery elk season is a thing. I’ve concluded that they’re great shooters, and absolutely dreadfully, embarrassingly, laughably bad hunters.
Wow good info. Always wished i could shoot the heavier bullets . Makes me feel alot better about my 145 grains. They got it right along time ago.
I harvested the two largest elk I ever took with a 139 gr. bullet and a 140 grain bullet from a .275 Rigby. It does not have the velocity of the .270 so I'm sure the .270 with take whatever you want with the smaller bullets. My son sure does. The .275 Rigby is a .284 diameter bullet.
Love my 270
Magnificent video, great reasoning, and you are showing us an important depth of wisdom. Thanks.
This would apply to your fast twist 25-06 with 134 grain as well.
Well it’s about bloody time someone brought out a fast twist 270 Win factory rifle. The bullet manufacturers have been slow to producing bullets suitable for a fast twist 270 Winchester cartridge. It seems like the rifle and bullet manufacturers have been holding off making rifles and bullets until one or the other started producing them before they also got into the act. I have been wanting someone to make a feast twist 270 win and bullets since the early 1990s. It’s been a long wait.
Great information Ron! I especially appreciate the comparisons and data you present in your videos. I think I will continue to be satisfied with my .270 Winchester as is; pretty much the same with my old 30-06. There are a lot of good or even great cartridges out there now, some I have experimented with and shot, but there is no reason to quit on these two "old" calibers.
270 will be around long after we're all gone
Might be a great option loading the tighter twist rate .270 with the longer projectiles made for the 6.8 Western
Thanks Ron, one of my favorite cartridges. I appreciate the info.
I have a load for 150 grain 270 win that one of my dad's friends worked up for him years ago. It took them months to customize that load to the gun (Winchester model 70 featherweight), and to this day even when I play with newer powders and bullets for it their load still rains supreme for deer hunting. I can't deny it just has that perfect combo and drops big whitetail on the spot! Sure does kick like a mule in that rifle though, so I would avoid handing it to a first time shooter!
Not sure it made much of a difference, but I always liked that Remington and Howa offered 308 Win as 1:10 and Sako/Tikka as 1:11, but Wincester/Browning stuck with 1:12.
About time Ron would be sad to see it left behind have used it for a long time great round..
Yes!
I called this a couple years ago....that the best way to resurrect old cartridges is twist them faster. That doesn't do anything for pushing the shoulder's back but loaders will come up with some magic.
From my experience, the 150 gr also had an inflated BC. Still, it’s perhaps the best bullet for a .270 Winchester.
Best is 130, no competition. It’s what it was made for and it shows.
🤷♂️ It just depends upon what species you are hunting as to what weight bullet you would choose! Both work fine and I have almost 1/2 century of experience with using both! 🤑
I load the Sierra 140 grain Tipped Game King.
With a claimed BC of near .500 and damn good accuracy, i think, in the words of Vinnie, "...you'll be more than pleased."
🕵️♂️ Hummm...well I prefer the 136 grain Lost River J-36 bullet (B.C. 0.650) with Reloader 26, going 3,150 ft/s! At 500 yards, it is still carrying around 2,000 ft lbs of energy! Run the numbers in the Horneday Ballistics Calculator and see for yourself just how good the performance is with your hunting conditions, as a comparison to what you've suggested! 🤑
Yeppers I will just stick with my good old 270's
Used 270 Winchester since early 80s with PERFECT results on whitetails. With 30-06s, 338s, 45-70, 30-30s etc my 1st choice is my Sako finnlight in 270 win.... Drops deer fast, really fast.... Low recoil for precision shots, flat trajectory and plenty of power... Alot of so called better cartridges have come and gone since the 270 win was introduced in 1925, but I can honestly say at ranges up to 500 yards it gets the job done period....
I thought this was going to be a game changer.. we often talk about how new cartridges are essentially a fast twist option of an old cartridge. But it seems that might not always be the case. Case design and case capacity matters.
Great video as always
The game changers are the slow powders and the improved ballistics of lighter bullets, best of both worlds.
Case design absolutely matters, we understand how powder burns much better now. Getting a more efficient case gets more velocity from less powder.
Nothing is really "changing the game" though. Physics is physics and animals aren't being dropped any quicker now than they were 100 years ago. Hyperbole is fun to read though.
@Jay Dunbar I've tried to find scientific experimentation to demonstrate this to no avail. As would be expected. The case could be a sphere, would make no practical difference and I'm not convinced of even an observable difference.
@@Simon-talks they are being dropped by smaller bullets and lower capacity cartridges. Over 100 years, the 30-06 150 grain has gained 3-400 fps.
It is obvious as soon as you explain it, but I never thought about the rifle affecting Ballistic coefficient. Thanks.
The advertised BC for the 150 grain bullet looks high. Apparently when Bryan Litz shot the 150 ABLR from a 1:10 twist barrel, he got a significantly lower BC than advertised ( 0.278 G7 BC vs advertised 0.317). It seems the bullet was still wobbling a bit. He got better numbers using a faster twist (0.291 G7), but still well below advertised .
@@ronlowney4700 This is getting entertaining. Read the comments again. Nobody even vaguely implied that these cartridges are bad. They are indeed very good. They both were also designed to be long-range hunting cartridges when 500 yards was considered VERY long range.
The actual BC's of the .277" ABLR's are very good, just not as good as advertised, at least not when shot from these cartridges. Numerous measurements from actual shooting tests show this. Do you have doppler radar data showing otherwise?
Please stop embarrassing yourself and look up who Litz is (hint: considered one of the top ballistic experts in the world, wrote numerous books on bullets and ballistics and is the Coach and former team member of the US Rifle Team). He has published actual shooting results of hundreds of bullets in his books. It was Litz who published data that showed that some bullets, while accurate, are still wobbling slightly at certain twist rates. Increasing twist lets them fly straighter and with a lower effective BC.
🕵️♂️ Is his trophy room as good as mine? Also, Lost River Bullets made bullets for our military! The 136 grain 0.277 bullet has a B.C. of 0.65 and, using Reloader 26, I can push it out of the Muzzle at 3,150 ft/s! Run the Numbers and see for yourself how "it" performs? 🤑
@@ronlowney4700 Do you have any trophies from international shooting competitions? Have you ever held any US shooting records? Have you designed bullets for Berger (or air-to air missiles for the US Air Force)? Are you considered one of the top in your field internationally with books published in several languages? Hell, Lost River actually uses Litz's information to design their bullets.
You are WAY out of your league here and well on your way to being a meme and laughingstock.
🕵️♂️ To show you exactly how "Rediculous" your argument is, what did World Renowned U.S. Sniper Carlos Hathcock hunt with? The answer is a 30-06 and a straight fixed power scope! Was he concerned about using a high B.C. bullets out of his 30-06! Nope! The modern 270 Bullets have much higher B.C.'s than anything he ever used in his 30-06 (either for hunting or sniping)! 😳 He was "Successful", because he could shoot! 😯 Their is no "Substitute" (Short Cut) for Brains and Skills! 🤥 Nope! 🤠
🧐 Put Carlos Hathcock up against Bryan Litz (Or Myself against You) with a "plane Jane 30-06" and a straight power scope (Hathcock used a Straight 8 power scope) and Who Would Win? Without your "Ballistics Drop Compensator" (What are you all "COMPENSATING FOR", besides lack of skill?😂); no range with the distance already marked or lazer range finder (because, unlike me, who was a distance runner and nearly a 4 minute miler, so I can actually judge distances); Larger and Flatter Shooting Calibers with attached Muzzle Breaks (unlike me, who used to bench press nearly 3 times my body weight and can "Handle" The Recoil); or a spotter and a higher powered scope (I am not using any "crutches" or someone else's "knowledge" and "abilities"), Who Would Win? That would be Carlos and Myself, because we don't "Substitute" Gear for Skill! 🎯 The "Truth" is that "You Aren't Man Enough to Be My Woman! 🤣
Good Ol' Browning Best there is Best there was Best there will ever be. Jack was right about the 270 Winchester.
Great episode.
I'm a fan of the .270 Win and the old .30-06 Spfld and walnut stocks, but if I were buying a new rifle today then I'd have a hard time not going with 7mm PRC in a tupperware stock.
Love your content Ron. Your the man.
What's the point in killing the beauty of the .270 Winchester for getting the performance of a 6.5 Creedmoor? I'd stick to the 130 grain bullets and take advantage of the extended MPBR, which in many situations is more desirable than a slower high BC bullet.
🤣 The 270 Winchester will make that 6.5 "NEEDSMORE" eat it's lunch! 🔥 Their is No comparison in either performance or versatility (a wider range if bullet weights), because the 270 Winchester wins every time! 🥇
Exactly the 270 is a hunting cartridge and works excellent for real world applications. The creedmoor is a target cartridge
MPBR is the most foolproof way of getting clean kills. That's why I'm such a fan of 243 and 270.
I've always used 130 for elk. It works reliably with a bonded bullet. I'll take the flat trajectory over increased energy every time
Corrections for you Ron. The highest weight 277 hammer hunter bullet (their high-bc line) that is rated for 1-10” is the 124 gr Hammer Hunter. With 1-7.5” you can go as high as 162 gr. You know how to find the sweet spot by just doing the calculations for the different bullets at different ranges, but I think 450 should be your long range benchmark for a hunting bullet since that’s your espoused maximum shooting range. I think it would be best to look at 150-300-450 for your comparisons. Fast twist 270 may have a sweet spot somewhere in the 130s, but honestly for hammers it could be the 117 gr. You need to pick the range you want to optimize for and compare the offerings. For example, in 7mm for absolute hammers the 140 gr is about optimal from about 400 and in because it’s about the maximum of “functional ballistics” when considering bc and velocity you get from about 280 Rem to 7 PRC. The bc really drops off on the lighter bullets while the velocities are notably lower in the 154-155 offerings. However, for copper I would always skew lighter. I would rather have a bullet that is worse 400 but can still get the job done while requiring far less adjustment hitting considerably harder at 250 and in because it’s leaving the barrel at 200-400 fps faster. We love to fantasize about that long range cross canyon shot, but optimizing for a shot you’ll be taking less than 5% of the time seems like a fool’s errand. Optimize for the 95% while still being able to get the job done for those long shots rather than the other way around.
Ron's analysis of 150 grain 270 bullets versus heavy, high B.C. 270 bullets for hunting applications (focused on energy) at sane distances is spot on. But what if we extend the tale of the tape out a few hundred more yards to see the difference B.C. makes? For my purposes and values, a better comparison to the 270 than new and insanely overbore 27 caliber cartridges is something like the 6.5 Creedmoor. The 165 grain offerings Ron is analyzing for the 270 compare very well in speed and B.C. to 143 grain offerings in the 6.5 Creedmoor. These new 270 bullet bullets paired with fast twist barrels make the 270 Winchester an excellent choice for target applications while taking nothing away from it for hunting applications. What is exciting to me about fast twist 270 barrels and high B.C. 270 bullets is not the difference they can make for the old 270 Win for hunting at sane distances. Ron accurately points out that the difference within 600 yards is negligible. However, it is exciting to consider what the new, high B.C. Bullets can do for 270 Win shooters who want to make really efficient long range target guns out of their old 270s without retooling their reloading set-up. The cost to re-barrel my old 270 Winchester and buy a box of high B.C. 270 bullets is much less than buying a new 6.5 Creedmoor rifle, a new set of dies, new brass, new bullets, and different powders. I submit that a refreshed 270 Winchester is a more versatile tool for a target and hunting rig than a 6.5 Creedmoor. I can now successfully be a one-gun, one-load 270 Winchester man with a bullet like the 165 ABLR. Really exciting! I'm grateful for the 6.8 Western, 277 Sig Fury, and 27 Nosler. I'll never own any of them, but their existence has breathed new life into my dear old 270 Winchester. All things considered, a modernized 270 Winchester sets a higher standard than ever for efficiency and utility. My $.02.
My deer hunting partner once shot a huge porcupine with his 270 Winchester and turned the critter into 5 big separate hunks of former porcupine. That impressed the heck out of me.
Does twist rate really matter? I recently saw a video of a man shooting 55 grain and 72 grain, both in 1in 7 and both in 1in 12. Way out to 500+ yards there was no difference
I load .270 with Nosler 150 balistic tips IMR 4064. very accurate and is a beast on whitetails. sub MOA all day any day. more the riffle than me, she's a good one.
Thanks Ron 😀😊😀👍🏼
Fast twist, with a long enough through, will allow heavy for caliber slugs with a high BC. Make it a good mild recoil alternative to the 6.8 Western.
🤠 Even if our hunting conditions and numbers are a little different Ron, the conclusion was the same! 👨⚖ Good Job! 👍
A fast twist 270 , well now the 6.5 crapmore is now obsolete !……. Sorry , the truth is not always pleasant !….. Thanks Ron for all your hard work for us !
6.5 needsmore is a pos weak ass cartridge. I know plenty of people trying to hunt elk with them
@@Lexidezi225 Exactly , these people bought into the hype and that’s why the pond shops and gun shop used racks are full of 6.5 crapmores ! Oh too soon ?………
*_6.8 Western_*
[Full Stop]
Stay classy my friends.
12:29 Berger has load data over 2800 fps for a few powders most are between 2725 and 2750 for 170 grain in 270 win.
🕵️♂️ I have talked to several people using the 165 grain Nosler ABLR's and Reloader 26 that are getting 2,900+ ft/s out of their 270 Winchesters! Just thought you might like to know that? 🤷♂️
Thanks Ron , the figures tell the story ! I feel sorry for the people who sold their 270 and bought a 6.5 crapmore !……
Got to remember you have more options on newer powders.
Not surprised Browning/Winchester introducing the faster twist rates because of what Hornady and others have done by bypassing the 68 Western with they're line of PRC ammo.
Hornady needs to get off they high horse and make a 170 or 175 eldx for the 6.8 western that would be a bad bad boy
@@jmgates09 hornady will as soon as there is sufficient demand for them to make the investment, and thus far Winchester and browning have seemed to stop pushing the push for it so why should hornady do their job for them.
Love the .270 win. Had a tikka t3 in .270 and it loved the 130 gn Nosler BT bulets. Now there are higher BC bullets for the .270 im tginking about purchasing a Browning Western Hunter Long Range rifle. 24 inch barrel with a 7 inch twist 😊 Be nice to try and work some loads with some nosler 170 grain BTs and the 165 grain accubond.
C'mon Ron. The 270 is never going to die. It is a very good cartridge and rifle combination. The current standard twist rates (1:10) match the current max bullet weights of 150gr are fine and nothing needs to be done. Custom barrels of 1:8 or 1:9 have been available for decades and have been used for heavier 175gr + bullets. Their BCs are good, their SDs are good but the velocities are low (ish) and so they are not quite so flat shooting. Change the case from 473 to 512 and the velocity problem goes away, but there is more recoil and you now have a 270 PRC, or a 68 Western or a 7 PRC. All in the same ball-park.
The .270 is a tried and true caliber.
If a high rate of twist was the key to Q's new 8.6 blackout it should work well here. I still love my .270 bargain Weatherby/ Howa..
When looking at the numbers @11:47 I can't see why someone would want the 165 grain bullet over the 150 grain bullet.
I don't understand the infatuation with having a fast twist barrel. The 270 Winchester case isn't designed for the long high Bc bullets. If that's what someone wants, why not just buy a 6.8 Western that already has a case designed to shoot long sleek heavier bullets. For the average hunter that keeps their shots under 400 yards, shooting high bc bullets and having a fast twist barrel doesn't gain you anything. Now, if you're a long range shooter, then it definitely makes sense. I think the 270 Winchester is perfect the way it is. A 150 grain partition will take any elk or moose with proper shot placement.
🕵️♂️ Why not the 6.8 Western? Because the 6.8 Western isn't performing at the advertised velocities! The 270 Winchester can come within 50 ft/s in velocity, have 1 more round in the magazine, is cheaper to shoot, and does it with about 5 ft lbs of less recoil! That is a Big reason Why the 6.8 Western isn't selling! The other reason is the 7mm prc! The 6.8 Western is essentially dying as we speak! 💀
The 6.8 Western isn't doing well because Winchester's marketing team isn't very good, not because it's not a good cartridge. If you are going to a fast twist 270 Winchester, you're defeating the purpose that it was designed to do which is high velocity for delivering hydrostatic shock and quick kills on game. I'm talking strictly from a hunting perspective. I see no need to have a fast twist 270 to shoot high bc bullets. People are too wrapped up in that nonsense unless of course you shoot past 500 yards on regular basis and practice a lot. Otherwise you aren't gaining anything when it comes to hunting at reasonable distances. The 7mm prc will be a flash in the pan too. The long range crowd will jump on it but I'm sure most people who already have a 7mm rem mag aren't getting rid of it for a cartridge that's harder to find ammo for. The Prc cartridges don't interest me whatsoever. From a hunting perspective, they don't do anything that other cartridges don't do that have been around a lot longer. Out to 400 yards which I'm comfortable shooting at, the 6.5 prc isn't better than my 264 win mag or 270 Winchester. The 7mm prc isn't better than my 7mm wsm and the 300 prc isn't better than my 300 win mag.
🕵️♂️ You "Assumed" incorrectly! I want to shoot the 165 grain Nosler ABLR out of my 270 Winchester at "Reasonable Ranges", at elk, to retire my 30-06 and just use 1 gun! The 150's (Nosler ABLR) is a better "long range bullet", just like Ron said! Be careful what you "Assume", as you were Wrong! 🤪
Also, as far a the "Death of the 6.8 Western", besides not performing as advertised, is the popularity of the 7mm prc! ☠
What exactly am I assuming? You are probably in the minority with wanting to retire your 30-06. Why would you do that anyway? I would want to use every gun I own for something. Explain to me what I'm wrong on since you apparently know everything. I think you are just blowing smoke and are full of a lot of hot air.
Imagine what the 6.8 western could have been if they loaded it for the entire .277 projectile selection. With the lighter 130, 140, and 150gr bullets it would almost duplicate 270wsm. 200ish fps faster than a standard 270 and very flat. Perfect for deer and pronghorn sized game. Then load it up with the big heavy 160, 165, and 170gr bullets and you have you have a great round for elk, bear and other big game. It really could be the one .277 cartridge to do it all.
I used to be a real velocity kind of guy, but then I hunted many animals for many years and have changed the way I think about external ballistics. I agree with GunBlue490 when he says the sweet velocity is from 2700 fps to 2900 fps and a good sectional density in the bullet for the game you are pursuing. I tend to be able to eat more of the meat with the less capillary damage caused at those velocities. I believe if I can't get within an ethical shooting distance then I'm not much of a hunter. In my opinion the advent of the range finder has made almost all rifles long range shooters if you have any idea of the ballistics of your firearm. You know there has been a lot of people taking up the old 45/70 again and they tend to believe that old pumpkin thrower is a long range rifle and it's pretty slow.
I never thought about that but I believe you are right. The 6.8 western if given the whole variety of bullet weights would probably take the biggest range of hunting. Light bullets for even coyotes and the heaviest could probably handle anything that walks in North American. They probably have a home run but only went to first base. I think they are missing the boat.
@@russellkeeling4387yer the ol’ sharps was considered a long range rifle back in the day but even with a range finder the trajectory of 600gn .458 bullet isn’t very forgiving and takes a lot of skill to shoot.
Excellent video Ron! Great comparisons.
Best sensible comparison I’ve seen. 270 was well designed and effective which is why it’s been so long lived. Best for everything? Nope. Effective on most everything? Yep
I have 2 boxes of .277 160gn Nosler Partition projectiles from the 70s or 80s. I just don't have a reason to reload them now, but I will never part with them. I use the 150gn Nosler Partition now because I can find them from time to time.
Great vids, I've never owned a 270. I'm a 30 cal guy. But great vids!! Much respect learn a lot
This is what I have been wanting!!! Please tell me it’s detachable box Magazine fed…
To the best of my knowledge, it is.
I don’t know but I’ll watch to find out. Looks like my browning x bolt in the thumbnail picture
270 win shooting the 140 SST is Thors Hammer on game!
🤣Though I Love my 270 Winchester, the only "Thor's Hammer" on game is the "Thor's Hammer"! How do I know? Because I was the one who was the first to have/invented the "Thor's Hammer" Cartridge! 😜
🤠 If it makes you feel any better, I still prefer the "good old" 270 Winchester for hunting though! 🤑
I've never owned a .270, I've always been interested in it as I've got friends who love it. The new 6.8 Western has a lot of appeal. It's one of those "you can't go wrong with it" calibers of with there are several. The .277 Fury is a bit of an enigma. Politically driven comes to mind. Most manufactures could make a bolt gun to handle the 80,000 psi pressures without a lot of modification. i think it was a goofy choice and will be changed. They really, really need to talk to the guys in the field more often. Thanks Ron, you always give us good content.
Wish you had focused more on the comparison between .270 fast twist and the 6.8 Western for long distance shooting. That's a good comparison, because that is often the choice hunters think about.
Was gonna pick up a 6.5prc but opted for the 270win. Its very comparable to the prc actually modernized
G. Kim Prince, Retired USMC
I watched your program on the new .270 Winchester. I've been shooting the .270 Winchester Copper Impact at the range. Using 130 grain bullet, Velocity is around 3000, at 500 yards about 1970, Energy is about 2590, at 500 yards about 1120. I have very good results- low recoil for me (I'm 88 years young). It is true about the rifle you use, my Vanguard shoots my listing. I've shot a Mossberg and Ruger, very close but a noticable difference, the Vanguard was better (I'm biased).I just thought you'd like this info for your records.
Thanks for your service have you took any game with the copper impact yet??
@@jmgates09 No
🤠 The Sako 90 also has a new angled bolt throw and pikitinni rail too! 😯
😳 I went to their website and they do have faster 1 in 8 twist barrels, for their 6.5's (like the 6.5 prc), but they aren't chambering anything in the 270 Winchester, from what I could see in any of their model 90's! 😭
I came to a similar conclusion a few years ago when i was thinking of having a custom barrel and saw that a faster twist was available in a .277 bore. At the time i was comparing it to the 6.8 Western and with heavy bullets 270 Win cannot keep up. I ended up loading the Hornady 145 eld-x in my existing 270 and it has been a great compromise of decent BC without giving up all the velocity. Now I would be more likely to do a 7 PRC as it is capable of using high BC bullets at moderately high velocities with reasonable recoil. Its really similar to the 6.8 Western but 7mm bullets offer more options and the pronghorn, deer and elk can't tell a .007 inch difference anyway.
True that wouldn't any game tell the difference 7prc is a great cartridge I have one in the cheap mossberg but I like the 6.8 western better wish all the companies would get off they high horse n make some rifles and ammo in it my buddy has one in a xbolt and it might be my favorite rifle I've ever shot but I'm scared to get one cause it's just not getting any support from anyone I don't even see any ammo from winchester on the shelves for it anymore
Encourage you to license a copy of QuickLoad and run some numbers. A properly chambered, fast-twist 270 Win is within 100 fps of the 6.8 Western in the long-for-caliber bullets. You'd be hard pressed to find a practical situation where you could tell the difference.
let's be honesty the 270 win 308 and 30.06 arnt going anywhere. Every local ammo supplier has these cartridges on the shelves. They have put more venison on the table than the prc cartridges or creedmoor could dream of.
A relative of mine built a .270 AI with a 26 inch 1:7 1/2 twist barrel and a long throat back in the 90's when he blew out his shoulder and couldn't shoot his 7 mag anymore, to this day that is one of the best rifles I've ever shot and hunted with. It fed a little funny until he put a Mauser action on it and I don't remember how fast it was but with a 150 grain Nosler Accubond that thing had a point blank range of about 325 to 330 yards with 200 yard zero and would print clovers at 300 yards consistently so if you missed it was 100% your fault. Since he refused to make another one or part with his I'm kind of excited to see where this goes.
How is a 270AI have never heard much about it but for a custom rifle it really interests me
Hey Ron. Can you do some discussion on the .325 WSM? It's my go to hunting rifle.
The original 270win was not on its way out and its not going anywhere same as the 30-06 to many are out there and people love them
Love my old rem700 270
🤠 Yes, Ron, I only want the heavier 270 bullets so that I can hunt Bigger Animals, like Bison and Moose at close range and just retire my 30-06! 👴 I Love the 30-06 performance too, but it really tops out at 168 grains for long range hunting! For that, I would rather use my 270 Winchester and a well constructed 150 grain bullet! As I said in the podcast, the Reloader 26 Website shows that you can get between 3,020 ft/s and 3,040 ft/s with every 150 grain bullet (like the good old Nosler Partition too)! So, you are right, the 150 grain bullet is still the best long range option for the 270 Winchester! 😁👍
I don't really agree the 168 grain bullet is the top for long range shooting in the 30-06 unless your intention is to shoot at animals beyond ethical ranges.
I won't shoot anything over 500 yards! But, Nosler also makes the 190 grain ABLR bullet, which is perfect for elk! You may want to give that a try? 🤷♂️