6 8 Westerner vs .270 Win. SM
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- With the new 6.8 Westerner the company and some gun writers would have you think the two are totally different. But are they? Are they close enough to be interchangeable? Randy has some answers and some cautionary warnings.
And, yes, Randy calls it a "Westerner" rather than a Western, as it is so much hype, that is his way of mocking their hype.
God bless!
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Never, Never, Never take advice from supposed gun experts at Bass Pro, Cabela's or Acadamy
They hire millennials at minimum wage who know almost nothing about rifles or pistols. Their job is to stand there and look good and run the cash register. Expecting or asking from them advice you might get the answer from the latest version of Call of War...or Mr. Potatoe Head goes hunting.
They are retail stores and even so there are gun shops that know little more. For me I enjoy learning as much on any firearms I buy before purchasing and one can still come up short at times when we get excited about a new item on the market.
I worked at gander mtn. when I was 24/25, part time for the discounts, I hate to say it but half the people I worked with genuinely didn't know sht about weapons. We had a few people like myself who hunted and shot for fun, but a good amount were pretty clueless. We even had a guy that was anti AR rifles "civilians shouldn't own those"... I'd say normally there's someone working that is knowledgeable, just have to make sure you talk to that person instead of the morons.
I listen to ron spomer an the 6.8 western is superior with faster twist barrel and he took game at 777 yards 1 shot down
@@MrJtin69Ron Spomer makes great content; you don’t have to listen to him at 2× speed........unlike some others ;-)
I really can't blame Winchester. Not when salesmen are giving out such bad advice.
@@craiglacount89 I don't know ... it seems as if Winchester did everything right. They sell rounds headstamped 6.8 Westerner in boxes bearing that label, they don't market it as an alternative to the 270 WSM, the names of the two rounds are completely different, and this isn't to mention the fact that no one should own or fire a gun unless they know that with very few exceptions different rounds are never interchangeable.
@@craiglacount89 how is Winchester to blame? If someone isn’t smart enough to read the stamp on the barrel and then go buy the right ammo that’s their own stupid ass fault!!!
You cant blame Remington, if you throw a 6.5 creedmoor in a 260rem chamber. Its about the same difference in cartridges
@@craiglacount89 if I stuck a .270 winchester in a rifle chambered for .30-06, or vise versa, would that also be Winchester's fault? After all the .270 is derived from the .30-06. Is anyone but myself to blame if I listen to some knucklehead at BassPro who says it's ok because the case dimensions are the same?
This is like blaming a gun for murder and not the person who pulled the trigger, smh.
I'm sorry Randy but, I don't see the connection between the 6.8 Western design engineer & some clown at Basspro giving incorrect advice to some guys dull enough to listen to it. How far do you want to stretch the blame game?
The fact that the incorrect cartridge became jammed in the chamber disabling bolt closure is the way it should be. From what I can see, there are 2 idiots involved in both of those stories, none of which is the design engineer.
I think it's bad enough purchasing differently labelled ammunition than was listed on the barrel of the rifle but, it's worse going around the place telling all & sundry about it. If I were either of those 2 guys, I'd keep my mouth shut & hope nobody found out.
Exactly
Right on brother
Amen!!!! Sounds like both fellers were ate up with dumbassitis.
Exactly
Exactly. I don’t see how this is winchesters fault. Personal responsibility, does that exist anymore. Invention is nothing new. That’s what drives people and always will.
Always match your ammo to what is stamped on the barrel.
This gentleman, respectfully, seems to have had a negative mindset from the get go of the release of the 6.8 Western. I’m not sure if it’s intentional, but he never seemed to have cared enough to learn that it’s name isn’t Westerner. I generally like his videos and advice, and he seems like a very experienced and smart individual, but he has never taken an unbiased look at the 6.8 Western.
Exactly
Oh ! Looks like we are picking ( NITS ) Today !……. Why do some of the gun ( writers ) call it westerner ???….
if someone can not see the difference between such a simple thing as the text on the boxes "6.8westerner" and "270wsm" then maybe shooting is not the right thing to do.
This is the same as 38 and 357, if the sales people are telling them it’s ok then some people are going to believe them. If it’s ok in other situations people are going to think the sales people know what they’re talking about.
Well let’s be real, you’ll never find a box of ammo labeled “6.8 westerner” because it doesn’t exist.
@@chevyon37s 😂 can’t say I’ve seen any yet, and who could justify the increase in cost over the .270 Win?
I beleive anyone purchasing a 6.8 western would have researched what it is .... and anyone already owning a 270wsm should know what the difference is. Isn't the number 1 or 2 rule of firearm safety to make sure you have the right ammunition for said firearm. I don't see how the engineer could be to blame for the stupidity of two bass pro employees and the even stupider person that would try factory ammo with a head stamp other than the one stamped on the barell of said firearm.
I really respect your vast knowledge Randy so I'm asking are these the only 2 chamberings that one could be possibly chambered and fired in the other ??
Did he say that guy was "gun savvy", I strongly disagree; also Bass Pro employees are not sharpest crayons in the box. The 6.8 western is catching up to the 7prc in popularity, that's impressive for the limited firearm manufacturers who chamber it.
I got me a new 6.8 western, freaking love it, never owned a 270 short mag. But I am bright enough to purchase the right ammo
So, why do people depend on some dummy behind the counter at Bass Pro to give gunsmith advice?
People who buy guns at basspro do
@@staciehatten9534 the workers need to be fired then. U don't have to be a gunsmith to read the barrel and match it to the box of ammo
Totally agree! I don't shop big box stores for a reason but as a consumer you should know what you need or you don't need it
Here's a story to your point. About four years ago I asked a guy at the gun counter at Sportsman's Warehouse House in Albuquerque, NM if they had any Browning X-Bolt Rifles in 280 Remington. His reply was the 280 is an obsolete cartridge. I told him he was wrong and he promptly said I didn't know what I was talking about. I then walked over to the ammo area and brought back three different boxes of 280 Remington ammo to prove my point. I told him he shouldn't speak out of turn and owed me an apology. When he didn't apologize I relayed the same story to the manager who was not only highly apologetic, but took the time to find the gun I was looking for at a Utah store, offered free shipping and 10% off the purchase price. Things worked out in the end, but if I hadn't been so persistent they would have lost a sale.
They don’t know any better
Don’t ever take advice from Bass Pro employees.
Yes, most Bass Pro employees couldn't find their ass with both hands. Lol Bass Pro doesn't pay enough for their employees to know very much about anything of the products that they sell.
Yes sir, I do believe that is the true moral of this story
Anyone that knows even the slightest about guns knows that you NEVER try to shoot any ammo in a chamber that is not designated on the gun. 6.8 Western= 6.8 Western ammo. 270wsm= 270wsm ammo, DUH!! Sure hope no one blows themselves, or a innocent bystander up.
When the clerk says.
- Yeah 6.8 and 270 they are the same caliber.
Customer answers...
- Ok gimme som 270 ammo then.
And some 20 gauge for my 12 gauge shotgun, I really like the those yellow shells.
@@Greyzonecompliant Funny as heck, sadly, so 👍 true
So if someone at the gun counter tells you you can shoot 38’s in a gun labeled 357 mag. Should you tell them they’re full of Shxx!
@@craiglacount89 You know there's always an acception to the rule, glad you pointed that out.
@@craiglacount89 Its just important to know de difference between the mening of Caliber and Cartridge.
As you know and pointed out 38 special is not the same cartridge as 357 mag.
But they are the same caliber.
And on top of that it is possible to fire 38 special in a 357 mag chamber.
But not the other way around.
22Lr and 22short
Same thing.
A person not a 100% certain about the definition of caliber and cartridge, should not fire a gun unsupervised.
They should get help from a friend when the go shopping ammo.
But NOT that stupid friend that knows everything. And sales clerks sometimes are that idiot expert.
To blame the Bass Pro situation or someone putting the wrong ammo in a rifle on Winchester is asinine!!!!!
No it’s the same logic as Winchester is responsible for the Cartridge shooting a mass of people.
Theres two kinds of gunsmith. There are the smarts ones... and then this guy.
that's what i was thinking, people do realize the barrels say the caliber right on them right? this is simple gun safety i learned when i was 9.
I don’t feel the issue you explained here is so much winchesters fault as it is the idiots selling guns that don’t know what there talking about. Also anyone that has any sense at all and knows anything at all about gun safety should know to only shoot ammo in a gun that matches the stamp on the barrel. Not only does it say this in the rifles manual and on the box of ammo. This boils down to one thing and that’s stupidity. It’s unfair to blame Winchester for stupidity they can not control. This is no different than you building someone a custom rifle in 308 and they take it hole and shoot 7mm08 ammo in it and got hurt. That wouldn’t be your fault nor would you be responsible for there stupidity.
Well in this case wouldn't the 7-08 just fire form to 308. A smaller diameter bullet in the same case shouldn't affect much
I want to know which Bass Pro it is?...evidently they have ammo in stock and I need some 270 WSM
I was going to ask the same thing. I cannot find any online or anywhere in Az
I’ve got a pile of I’m trying to find another rifle for.
@@DuoBart0n libertytreeguns had one in stock. Winchester 270wsm
I fail to understand how the 6.8 is a failure when you have salesmen and gun magazines telling you to put the wrong ammunition in the rifle
I listened to this video a few times prior to commenting. I am a hand-loader have both a 270 and a 6.8 Western. There is no question the 6.8 out performs the 270 in every way; accuracy, powder efficiency, heavier bullet, more energy at longer distances with a short action cartridge. These fast twist barrels with high BC are the future and here to stay. I am not saying that the 270 is not a wonderful iconic cartridge, but is not in the same league as the 6.8 Western or 6.5 PRC. I don’t understand why so many hunters get so emotional over the 6.8 Western. It is not likely that I will take a 1000 yard deer shot, but is nice to know I can if I had to. We need to take pride in these iconic cartridges, but so emotional as not to see the excellence in these new cartridges shooting high BC bullets.
Good comment. I've seen a few older gun guys shitting on the 6.8, but It's got great ballistics, and in a short action. I know Randy has many mire times the experience than I will likely ever have, but it does seem that many people have trouble accepting new things without bias when they get into their later years in life. He has a ton of practical knowledge but just because something is new doesn't mean it doesn't have a valid reason to exist. And, my next gun will be a 308 because I'm not interested in spending twice as much for ammo to get advantages that won't make enough difference to be worth it given my needs as a hunter in the eastern mountains. Cheers
@ J W I’ll tell you why so many people get in an uproar over “new and improved” hunting cartridges. These companies remove a belt here, change a degree there and tout their “new” design as the next coming of Jesus. It’s marketing 101. Let me let you in on a little secret. If you put a faster twist barrel on a 270 WSM, you magically have a 6.8 Western. Shazam! There I saved you a grand or more.
@@jeffcopenhaver2217 I have both a 6.8 Western and a rebarreled 270 WSM, they have exactly the same accuracy and ballistics. So I totally agree. With that said, a 6.8 Western or a rebarreled 270 WSM is far superior over a 270 without a high twist barrel. I wish these gun makers would give us a choice of barrels instead of coming out with new cartridges. THIS WOULD MAKE ALL OF US SHOOTERS HAPPY! I don’t thing they really care though.
It’s not the round it’s the twist rate. 270wsm and 6.8 western with same twist rate shoot identical. Wsm’s should of had a faster twist
Hi Sir, liked your comment I wanted asked you I was going to get a rifle custom build chamber in the 6.8 western because of other reviews and other comments said the 6.8 western out performed the 7mm rem mag so now I'm stuck on what chamber I should get rifle bulit in now I'm looking at the 7mm-08 rifle built but I just need a right direction to go I would appreciate your opinion where I'm having trouble deciding due to the fact so many negative and positive of the 6.8 western I do respect old school gun smith's but times are changing just need a right direction to go also recoil is no problem to me if that helps you out I appreciate your thoughts on it look forward to your input
The 6.8 Western, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6mm Creedmoor, .350 Legend. Have many benefits and purposes. But the best benefit is lower recoil. And lower recoil is going to help new shooters be more comfortable and accurate with rifles. And therefore build demand for shooting products and facilities.
The primary message of this video is doing things safely! And that is an important message. I gave the video a thumbs up for the safety message. But the 6.8 Western is an excellent round. That must be used safely, like any other caliber!
Thank you James
Its a unnecessary cartridge. Unless you are an expert precision shooter the average to very good shooter won't know the subtle differences between a 6.8 and the cartridges that have already been around for 50 years. Its a novelty and a name that sells. 280AI and 7mm mag, even a 30-06 are far more capable. Heavier bullets, larger wound channel and equal velocity. Nobody's going to ethically shoot game over 3 to 400 yards unless you are bench rested and a phenomenal Marksman. If you're talking about nailing paper at 500 yards there are other rounds that will still do that better than a 6.8. It's an unnecessary cartridge made so that gun nuts will get a craze and start buying. There is not one thing that the 6.8 Western can do better than cartridges that are already around.
@@PeterOldschool Since the US Army is adopting the 6.8x51 cartridge. The 6.8 Western is likely to have the availability off 5.56 NATO. Try and buy 30-06 in most places.
Recoil? Yes, sure seems to be quite a factor today. Also, nothing worse than the pussification of the modern day American male.
6.8 western is what the 270 wsm should have been from the start.
Exactly
Should of been a 7mm western 😂 I like the .284 over the .277. The .284 is a perfect middle of the road size for everything short of brown bear in North America.
@nickb8618 Or just go with 300 wsm which already has plenty of factory loads and more power than either. 277 or .284. Recoil ain't much more and you got them big ole .308 bullets.
I always laugh when they call it engineering when all they do is take another case and adjust it and call it a new cartridge.
With that ideology, an F1 car is obsolete, because the Model A existed.
@@kyleedwards4420 that is not what I am saying nor is that an ideology for me. All I am saying is they took already tested technologies and adapted them into a new case. That does not mean no calculations were made. In this process more went into the marketing then the actual cartridge design. For example, 375 Ruger was developed with Hornady and Ruger. Engineering went into that. However, Hornady then necked down the 375 Ruger to 308 diameter and now call it the 300 PRC great cartridge, but limited engineering. I don't believe reducing me to a single ideology is any value. I am not saying new cartridges can't come from adjustment to other cases. Some of our best cartridges have come that way. But don't mistake engineering as marketing to sell it. 308 win is a shortened 30-06. Simple concept in there world. Marketing was way harder. Both great cartridges. Trust me more work in many of these cartridges is actually the tooling, components, and marketing. They have to hype up engineering to sell it in the marketing. If they just said ya we to this case and changed the diameter bullet. Now it is the greatest that would not sell. They did the same with the 300 PRC (love the round by the way). But realistically all it is, is a 375 Ruger case necked down to support heavy for caliber 308 bullets.
It is engineering. By your standard the 7mm08, 260, 243, 270, 280, 2506 etc should be scoffed at.
That is most cartridges. Most cartridges come from the 30-06 and 375 H&H
@@WilliamKister there is a lot of em
It’s not Winchester’s fault in the least. Some uninformed twit who shouldn’t be allowed to sale guns misinterpreted the fact that the .270wsm grandfathered the idea of the Western.
I’m sure people have been misinformed over the years that you can put .357 Magnums in a .38 Special revolver. It’s certainly not Smith and Wesson’s fault that this happens.
The headspace on the 6.8 Westerner is 0.084" shorter than the 270 Winchester Short Magnum and with its case dimensions, the 6.8 Westerner will fit a 270 WSM chamber with excessive headspace. Worse, the 270 WSM has a case that is 0.08" longer, so if one is mashed into the chamber of a 6.8 Westerner, the neck can pinch the bullet and cause excessive pressure. It is a formula for confusion and potential catastrophic failure.
My son and I just had a short lived discussion about this cartridge. After comparing anything that it's capable of to what our .300 Win. Mags are currently doing using 168 grain Nosler long range Accubond bullets at 3350 fps, we tossed the 6.8 westerner into the fireplace and watched it burn. ;)
Not really a good comparison...one is short action, one is long. The .277 bullet will have a higher sectional density in a relative bullet weight. The 300 win mag is a much larger case capacity yet the 6.8 western is almost matched for muzzle velocity, albeit slightly slower, but at 500 yards the 6.8 western is faster and carrying more energy. I don't shoot a 6.8 western and don't plan to but the fact of the matter is this cartridge is no joke and the "winchester is in trouble" narrative here is simply misplaced blame
@Paul lol thanx for participating ya daft mook
Were you at least wise enough to not have any .270 WSM chambered?
Years ago when S&W came out with the .460 I had to have one. I was having problems with the scope sliding in the rings. After telling my story to a gentleman he said he could get a set of rings that would hold. He was also a gunsmith for Magnum Research so I trusted him. He called me the next day and said he won't touch it because there was a recall on the gun. Brought it back to sportsman wherehouse where I bought it the Moran behind the counter told me just don't shoot the .460 and I'll be fine. After talking to the store manager and had my gun sent in and telling him what his sales person was saying . Went back many times after that that sales person was working in foot wear. Never trust a person in a box store to know what they are talking about most don't.
I don't think it's the ammunition manufacturers fault that any of this happened. I guarantee you there is somewhere in there manual that says do not use any incorrect ammunition in this firearm. The customer should have known better and the only people really responsible will be the Bass Pro Shop employee.
100%! Randy is trying to blame the wrong party here.
You don’t think the explicit warnings against such actions that are stamped onto every rifle barrel, and printed on every box of ammunition would absolve them from any wrongdoing?
My go to caliber is the 6.8 O’Connor
Haha! Amen! Funny thing is, some goobers will be Googling that. Lol!!!
I feel like this guy could have told us this story in 3 min instead of 10..
What happened to basic gun safety rules! Head stamp data stamp, Head stamp data stamp they gotta match!
I've been hearing about new cartridges all of my life "flatter shooting than a 270" "more power than a 30-06". Wow, after all is said and done they still compare them to 100 year old chamberings, barely edging them. Or using vast amounts of gunpowder and/or "trick" bullets. Find a cartridge with adequate power chambered in a rifle that is comfortable to shoot and carry then shoot, shoot, shoot.
But if you’re going to get a new rifle, that 6.8 sure does seem sweet! Come on, you know you’d be stoked if someone gave you one for free!
@@wesleyturner1979 for free yes, but would I go out and buy one with my hard earned cash over a .30-06 or .308? Probably not.
@@guitaristxcore 30-06 you have a point. I don’t much see the point in the 308. It’s too slow for a 30 with modern powder and bullets. There are much better options for a brush gun. I’ve got a 300 wsm I like that only slightly edges out the outstanding 30-06. My wsm is on a Tikka action which I found out was a large action in disguise. Now with a long action bolt stop I load out longer heavier bullets at better speed. However, the 6.8 would make a great lightweight mt rifle as it ticks off a lot of boxes with minimal recoil and way better performance than the 6.5 creed. In shooting the 6.8 I think you would find it more agreeable in a lighter gun than the 30-06 with as good or better terminal performance. This day in age, I don’t see how anyone can afford to shoot anything they don’t hand load for so amo availability, I find to be a moot point.
This guy bags on everything new. If the cartridge isn’t older than he is, he doesn’t like it. No surprise he doesn’t like the 68 Western-er. Could you build a 270 WSM that would do the same thing as the 6.8 western? Well sure you could, but it would be a highly custom chamber that probably would only shoot handloads purpose built for it.
If they would just give a knowledge assessment test to the guys wanting to work behind the gun counter, that would help thin out the ones without enough sense to work in a gun shop.
Should we blame 556 designers if somebody puts them in 223.?
😭😭😭 I bought 280ai instead of 7mm rem mag.
It's winchesters fault!
Many years ago. Was in wally world picking up ammo. And overheard the clerk telling a customer that 300 win mag and 300 Weatherby mag were interchangeable.
Be careful when dealing with a minimum wage gun clerk.
Yeah, I heard a counter gun sales employee at Sportsman Warehouse tell a customer, he could shoot 45 GAP in a 45 ACP. That they were basically the same. The sales guy was hard pressed about it. Those counter guys have a high turn over.
Some people might end up putting a thump in their neck.
You seen that video to. That was nasty bad. He is lucky he is alive.
@@joshradford1989 Was wondering if anyone would pick up on that!
wearing the "just put a thumb in it " shirt now ...LOL
That is a crazy story and the problem I have with the big stores that hire inexperienced staff to sell firearms
There is too much focus on finding a new cartridge so you can have a writer give praise for a new round .
Which Bass Pro Shop was so I don't go there?
Exactly. There the problem
Pretty hard to beat the good old 270 win for what it’s designed to do.
Definitely not an engineer or a manufacturer problem, everyone shoud known to only load the ammo that is intended for that rifle. The rounds are not interchangeable, the 6.8 COAL is longer and wont fit in the 270 wsm mag. it will chamber extremely hard, pushing the bullet into the rifling .
LMAO...a knowledgeable life long hunter who handloads believes a Bass pro Clerk when he tells him a 6.8W and 270wsm is the same...LMAO...
There is a woman that owns a gunshop on tictoc. She was live and stated 260 remingtom could be fired in a 6.5 Creedmoor. I corrected her and was quickly admonished because she runs a shop and knows more than I do.
Winchester was sued over the 270 wsm and lost that's why they created the 6.8 to start with and that's why 270 wsm ammo is so expensive
It was a just law suit as Winchester has a long history of bad business practices in the gun industry I believe the name of the individual who sued Win. and won is gun writer Rick Jamison, a very good gun professional writer. The law suit is worth reading as is learning about the history of Oliver Winchester and his shrewd business practices. Unfortunately Jamison has been black listed by the big money of the gun kabal. The 6.8 Western cartridge has ballistic Merritt but the jaded umbrella of Winchester, along with how bad they are in making this ammo commonplace, the deal to seal is already evident. No other munition producer is picking this round up. There are better rounds than this 6.8 too. Like the 27 Nosler or a fast twist rebarreled 270 Weatherly like I had built years ago.
Randy, I’m curious to see how you think the 6.8 Western compares to the 7mm Remington Magnum. Do you think there’s any advantage to one cartridge or the other? From my looking you can only get good hunting bullets up to 160 grain, for the 6.8 Western. Which cartridge would go with if buying a new rifle? Thank you so much for your videos, they are beyond helpful for aspiring hunters and riflemen.
It's a no brainer. the 7 Rem Mas is by far the best choice. the 6.8 does not have the velocity or energy capability, or the larger case volume of the 7 mag, and neither of them is a 600-800 yard game cartridge.
Thanks for watching.
After around 200 yards the 6.8 is going faster and hitting harder with the same weight bullet. Go plug it into a ballistic calculator online and you will see for yourself. Look at the recoil while you’re at it, and bullet weights, 6.8 goes up to 175 factory ammo at the moment…
Haha a 7 mag shooting a 165 GR bullet 3188 at the muzzle on Entergy and if I go lower or higher on bullet weight it drops the Entergy level below 3100 at the muzzle now the copper impact in 6.8 western is around 3000 Entergy at the muzzle but anything else stars at 3220 muzzle Entergy and higher and after 350 yards the 7mag is in the rearview mirror and losing ground plus a 6.8 western longer case life 12 to 18 grains less of powder less recoil shorter action lighter mountain rifle and hits harder from the muzzle and anything afterwards
Only shoot the ammo stamped on your barrel that's common sense. 6.8 western and 270 wsm doesn't sound simular. The owners manual clearly states only shoot the ammunition stamped on the barrel. This guy just looking for a reason to hate on the 6.8 western.
6.8 western blows 270 and 270 WSM out of the water, it starts hitting harder than 7mm rem mag with similar weight bullets after a couple hundred Yards, overtakes 300 win mag after around 350yds, even with heavier 180 gr bullets in the 300. It has a whole lot less recoil aswell. I’m not saying everyone should go out and buy one. I’m saying if u actually do your research it’s a hot round that packs a hard punch at distance. No need to do mental gymnastics to hate on something new that you would probably be impressed with if you did the research
You bring up real and valid points. If Winchester is putting out documentation stating such that you can interchange cartridges that’s one thing. However, this sounds like people giving information on this, when they clearly don’t know what they are talking about. As others here have stated, match your ammo to what is stamped on the barrel if your rifle.
Common sense would keep this from happening, however, this is lacking in our current society...
I once had a guy ask me. How can you shoot a Winchester bullet out of a Ruger rifle?
Although I think this new cartridge is over hyped. If people can’t read what cartridge is stamped on the side of the barrel and buy the correct ammunition then they shouldn’t be owning a gun or working at a sporting goods store!!
I have seen, on countless instances, a gun counter employee giving false advise. People should understand that these folks arent experts, they are salesman. These people have done their job... Selling guns and ammo. The buyer should always do their homework!!! Thanks for bringing this to light with the new 270s!
I love my 270 WSM. 270 wSM is not the same as 6.8 westerner! I wish people would understand! Why not 270 wsm with faster twist for long range with heavier bullets? Please educate more people in their wrongdoings! Very much love your knowledge! From Manitoba, Canada.
Because the chamber is different! The 270 WSM was not designed to shoot the long high BC bullets if you use them you have to stuff them way down into the case and you take up a bunch of case capacity plus the long bullets are designed for a 1:8 or 1:7.5 twist and the 270 WSM has a much slower twist than that.
That is pretty much what they did. Imagine the confusion if you had two different chamberings of .270 WSM with different twist rates? Might as well give it a different name. Which they did.
The guy at caballas says it works.... I believe him 😂🤣
I came here for ballistics comparison ... stayed for the comments section.
I don’t see any advantage to the 6.8 Westerner over the .270 short mag or even the .270 Win!!
I can see some serious issues happening if you are told incorrect information from the gun store and or dealer!!
It is comparing apples to apples. I can load my 270wsm the exact same as a 6.8 western. ( My barrel is 1-8 twist) .
A guy in my elk camp uses 270 wsm with 165 accubonds i am so jealous. Elk slaying machine
Sounds like a bass pro problem, not a 6.8 western problem.... Bass pro gun counter sucks anyway so don't go there to purchase a firearm
Sherman Shortmag already existed.
Randy: The 6.5 Creedmoor isn't big enough for hunting!
Winchester: Makes 6.8 with 175 grain bullets.
Randy: People need to stop buying new calibers!
Stay off my lawn!
The same could be said for 25-06, 270 Win, 280 Rem & 30-06. Same parent cartridge, different bullet. I am not sure about head spacing as I do not handled. As many have said already, never take advise from the people behind the counter at Cabelas, Bass Pro. Shoot what the gun was designed to shoot. This isn't a Winchester issue, this is a training issue at the store. Those will be the ones getting sued.
When did Christensen arms start making a 6.8 western ? To my knowledge its not in their website
I know a guy that bought one through their pro-form. Its very real indeed.
@@G19Jeeper so you can get a 6.8 but not 7wsm ir saum or stw. Im calling tommorow to see what i have to do. Had 2 dealers try get me a 7prc or wsm. Was a dead end
@@long-range-eliminator honestly, for the money, just do a custom build. The Christensen rifles are so hit or miss, they’re not worth it
@@G19Jeeper they haven’t released a rifle in 6.8 western yet
@@Dave-cf2ng he may have bought a PRC, not a 6.8. I was confusing it with one of my other coworkers who’s waiting for the 6.8 release to place his order
Why would a guy buy ammo for a different gun???? Regardless of what a worker at Bass Pro shop, they should have made the case longer and kept the fat boy and went .285!!! it would have sold out
Well... I think you went a bit far. The design of the cartridge is perfectly fine, it's the marketing and sales issues that have created the problems.
No the design of the cartridge is not fine! It’s too close to the 270 WSM and the situation that Randy described is and will continue to be the result of a poorly thought out “new” cartridge design. Remember if it can be done, it will be done!
@@craiglacount89 I agree totally with what he said, but it completely looks over the potential of the cartridge ballisticly. 270 wsm and 6.8 west. are great ballisticly and are great for longer range hunting, so before we denounce the 6.8, we must also recognize its potential. And for those with actual brains, it will be a great cartridge for them, and they'll be glad they chose it. Especially for reloaders and the type.
You're absolutely right. The owners manual of each and every rifle sold specifically states to use the same ammunition as stamped on the barrel. Anyone that doesn't do it doesn't have any business around guns whatsoever!!!/!!!!!////////
Lots of cartridges will load into gun chambered in different caliber. It's stupidity of the gun owner to do such a thing.
These videos by Randy are great. I don't understand why he blames Winchester though. I don't see where they suggested anywhere that the bullets were interchangeable. Anyone who took that advice from a Bass Pro employee and loaded a 270 WSM into their rifle shouldn't own a firearm.
this new cartridge is gonna die, only browning and winchester will make rifles for it. no ammo company isn’t going to make it, especially Hornady, competes with their PRC calibers.
“6.8 westerner” 😂😂
You don’t even know what it’s called. That tells me the amount of research you’ve done.
Christianson arms doesn’t even make a rifle in 6.8 western. You’re making stuff up, guy.
This is just an example of the old school thought process. The funny thing is that this guy probably experienced the same thing with the introduction of the 308WIN and all the crap that was talked about it replacing the 30-06 and 270.
The cartridge has nothing to do with idiots buying the wrong ammo.
The problem is someone putting the wrong ammunition into the rifle.
At the end of the day people suggesting to use the wrong ammunition in the firearm need to be corrected.
The big advantage of the 6.8 western is the fast twist barrel. I’ll more than likely rebarrel on of my 270 WSM rifles with a fast twist barrel to take advantage of the high bc bullets
Any logical person would know not to use a different cartridge then the gun specifies. 6.8 western is a hell of a cartridge. Companies are constantly modifying calibers. I would be pumped to be the engineer behind the 6.8 Western!
For the life of me I can NOT imagine purchasing a new rifle without having done enough research that I would at the very least know what kind of ammo it took. Also, I live 1 mile from a Cabelas/Bass Pro store and I am in there 2-3 times per month. I have heard some bonehead things said by employees behind the counter. It is the customer's responsibility to educate themselves and when they get ready to buy a firearm do some research beforehand. Lots of good info online, if you know where to look.
Hi I'm just wondering what are your thoughts on the 6.8 hunting wise
Hunt with it! That’s what it was made for!
It would be fine, if you take into account its limitations and keep ethical distances.
Thanks for watching.
elongated projectiles tend to tumble on impact just food for thought
Hunting projectiles intentionally shorten on impact. They do not tumble, except in rare cases.
How is this a tremendous problem? Someone put the wrong bullet in the wrong gun. This is neither of the fault of the gun, the cartridge, or the engineer. I thought I was about to hear information about mechanical inferiority of a rifle or a cartridge. At least I know the gunsmiths who don’t want to learn about this new product cannot find anything actually wrong with it.
My father taught me at a young age only to shoot the ammunition that matches the stamped on the barrel. If the barrel isn’t stamped a qualified gunsmith should be consulted
Exactly!
Am getting the drift that incompetence exists, not that the 6.8 western is a bad cartridge. Matter of fact I like the rather European fact that they seat the longest, heaviest bullets possible. Europeans mostly use a 160-156gr bullets for the 6.5, NOT the American favorite and most used 140gr . Americans go for small bullets very fast, 300wm is a prime example. The 6.5 Swede reflects Europeans hunting with a 160gr 6.5 bullet
Just another rant about how knowbody knows what there talking about. How could you even dream up that this is Winchesters fault. I agree there is an issue but it sounds like it's at bass pro and with the people listening to them. RULE #1 if it's not the correct ammo dont use it.
Have you contacted bass pro about they're issue. Seems like you would have done that first
As if there aren't many other calibers which have had this same issue over the years, and yet people aren't dying in droves? Maybe most people are smart enough to use the ammo for the gun they own? Otherwise they shouldn't be shooting.
Sounds like Darwinism. If you shoot the wrong ammo out of your gun it’s your own fault. Especially if the foundation of your gun knowledge is from bass pro.
There is the reason one is called 270 wsm and the other 6.8 western. Can you imagine if they called it the 270 western how bad that would be.
Are we really in need of all these new cartridges all the time when, usually, there's already one or more that's ballistically similar? Too many guys get too wrapped up in caliber when, in most cases, you can just pick a caliber suitable for the game and terrain in which you hunt and just learn your rifle/load. Bullet selection and placement is way more important, in most cases.
None of my deers ever told me to use the 6.8 or the 6.5.. they were perfectly happy dying by 7mm08 and 270 wsm
If you cant read that the rifle is chambered in 6.8 and you put 270 wsm that guy has no business owning a rifle. Any salesman is not a gunsmith, he's there to sell a product not work nor give advise as a Gunsmith. IMHO it's the Lack of knowledge that people parish. Have a blessed day
Put your playback speed at 1.75x, thank me later.
the problem doesn't seem to be with the folks at Winchester or Browning. it seems to be a problem with an ignoramus or two at Bass Pro Shop. there's no excuse for a sales person falsely claiming cartridges are interchangeable.
What it proves to me is that time hasn't changed. You can put any moron behind a counter. But you can't fake gun knowledge. Reminds me of a accountant behind the counter who thought she knew best about rifles. This was 1980 because her husband had a 7x57 mauser, and a savage rifle marked 7 mm had to be the same. In reality she some how was allowed to sell that rifle chambered 7 mm Remington magnum as a 7x57, but sold the customer 7mm Remington Express ammunition for it. I got a phone call to come as a consultant, and was handed the rifle and ammunition and asked to explain what happened to the rifle and why there customer was suffering from injuries. My answer was out of the gate was( a accountant was allowed behind the counter) than explained the the science to them of any modern day rifle. Was later asked to repeat that science in a court room.
lol.. First, that brass pro employee or employees needs to be fired. Second it's Western, not Westerner. 3rd, it's an optimized 270wsm for long, high bc bullets. Lastly, if you need advice from a gun counter these days and don't know that your rifle should match the ammo, then I'm afraid you're going to have a tough life.
It’s not Winchester’s fault if that happened. There is no problem or unfortunate situation here. Put the right ammo in the right gun. Good lord people.
How in the world is it winchester fault? If you put the wrong round in your rifle that's only your fault. Are you worried about someone putting a .243 into a .308? Or 7mm-08? Or 6.5cm?
I remember a guy local here that years ago shot a 7mm express in a 7 mag gun. Used a hammer to open it.
I believe you have the same issue with a 243 and a 6mm
.243 Winchester is just that. 6mm Remington or the .244 Remington are the same cartridge. The only commonality is the bullet diameter. All 3 rounds use a .243 diameter bullet. Can be confusing.
To me the bass pro guy is not educated I hunt with a 7 mag wby a 7 mag rem can go in my gun the 7 mag wby was created in the 40’s and the rem mag came out in the sixties I recently bought a 6.8 western and got the right ammo people who buy a gun should understand what ammo to buy before they buy a gun I went to Walmart years ago Walmart sales a Weatherby gun that shoots 7 mag rem I asked the guy in the sporting good section if they sale 7 mag wby he said yes but what I tried to sale me were rem mag and argued with me and said it was the same
In yr opinion randy is a 6.8 western a good caliber or not ???
I do not agree with your assessment. No engineer is responsible for telling a gun owner to shoot the incorrect ammo out of a rifle. Barrels are marked for a reason…ammo is marked, if it doesn’t match…Don’t shoot it! I don’t even blame the salesman for selling the wrong ammo! No one, no where has ever stated or written that the 6.8 W and .270 WSM are the same cartridge! If blame is to be placed on someone for using the wrong ammo, it lies fully upon the owner of that rifle.
ive said this before the 6.8 is not meant to replace the .270 it simply gives us a .277 caliber rifle capable of firing bullets weights similar to a 7mm mag while retaining almost identical performance to a .270. some say you could just put a fast twist barrel on a 270 and get the same result. this is not true. those long bullets will eat into a 270s powder capacity, giving you less speed and less velocity. hence why this 6.8 western has a bit more case capacity than the .270.
What gets me is why on earth would you pick the .277" caliber to make a cartridge when its probably got the smallest selection of bullets available? I am not at all shocked that it came from Bass Pro. I have yet to meet someone knowledgeable at Bass Pro.
Just the same as with 6.5mm a few years ago... and look how companies have started making many different bullets for .264/6.5mm. You gotta start somewhere. Options will increase. The cartridge is less than a year old, new offerings will come based on how popular it becomes.
I have been told that a lot of the box stores especially Wal-Mart will not put people behind the gun counter that knows guns.
They don't want employees to really give advice or information about guns/ ammo out.
It cuts down on there liability.
Well military is looking at a 6.8mm round so that will likely change
Buy and hunt with a 270 Win and then you will know why.
its the same with 300 blackout and 223 in an AR, if you have both in an AR, you need to be careful not to grab the wrong mag. You cant be dumb with firearms period.
The difference between 6.8 western and 270 wsm is quite obvious. 6.8 western handles heavier projectiles way better. Please do your research before bullsh**ting! At least, say the name right.
A 5.56 in a 223 could be a problem. Maybe you should rant about that in your next video if you want to prevent gun manufacturers lawsuits.
I’m an old curmudgeon.
They should not make a Diesel engine.
Because you can put GASOLINE in diesel tank and blew up your engine .
Darn it just make gasoline engine .
How hard it is to just stick with gasoline engine
Two situations isn't just two cases. That two cases we know about. So how many more have had this actually happen?
I enjoy your videos Mr Randy.
Anyone that can’t figure 6.8 western and 270wsm is two different cartridges should not own a gun let alone be selling them
It's not the engineer's fault, it is the idiots selling them and the idiots buying them. None of them have any buisiness touching any firearms !!!
I don’t understand how it’s anyone’s fault but the owner of the gun. The cartridge size is literally stamped on the firearm.
How many .30 cal cartridges fit in the same rifle? That is stupid. Operators must be savvy
Wasn't the 7mm WSM shoulder pushed forward to specifically prevent it from chambering in the 270WSM? Also, wasn't the 280 Rem shoulder pushed forward to prevent it's chambering in the 270 Win? These were basic steps taken a decade ago (WSM) and multiple decades ago to prevent this kind of interference? I've never been accused of under-thinking anything but this seems like a huge oversight by the designers as you point out!
So they say it is the reason, but I've not sussed out any other.
Thanks for watching.