They want to Ban Machamp...but should they?
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
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Machamp is currently being suspect tested in the DPP OU tier. What do you think? Do you consider Machamp to be uncompetitive? Should it be banned? Let me know down below!
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asfgerthrrth Enjoy!
One minute in and we've already got one of the Agency's strongest soldiers with Howl Typhlosion
DPP low ladder is infamous for a reason. It’s one of the dumbest on the site.
Some ppl cook but this guy had the whole bbq on fire
he forgot to cook meat and just made charcoal instead
@@MintyTea_Ncharcoal would be more beneficial than howl lmao
Maaaaaan I know they don't wanna do complex bans but the fact that we're suspect testing machamp while iron head rachi is allowed to commit war crimes on a daily basis is ridiculous. This small time gambler's dying for the sins of a real monster.
banning machamp on the basis that its hax-incarnate rather than being too strong for OU is the first step to getting rachi iron head or all of rachi banned based on its hax. lets not resort to "what about X stronger mon". both are clearly too infuriating to be expected to deal with
if gen 4 can still get suspect tests to ban shit from OU, it can drop mons from OU too. usage-based tiering may be over, but the world won't end if the gen 4 community gets together already and just says, "okay look, we ALL agree that Dusknoir, Electrivire, etc. are NOT OU material. We're just gonna drop them."
EXACTLY
This would fuck up the perfectly fine dpp uu metagame
Think before opening your big mouth
@jesuisintrinsequementpolar3242 would it fuck it up, or would they be fine in the tier? no way to know without trying
@jesuisintrinsequementpolar3242 Just BL them, then. At this point, the only reason why would you have these mons is because of "Historical Value" and some jokes.
It's not Machamp's fault if in Arceus' plan he made confusion so much stronger than a 'mon
Protect me, for one turn.
Don't let this Pokemon confuse me
Don't let me destroy my own flesh and bone.
Destroy with Explosion
And let opps taste the fires of hell
Or else click X and leave them all alone~
@Necrostevo 🔥🔥✍️
Lord Machamp sir. Jirachi has escaped.
In my opinion jirachi is way more broken then machamp that thing with para is just insane
DPP and their refusal to ban Jirachi strikes another innocent bystander
Para is by far the most OP status. People are just upset about bad luck which almost all Pokémon moves have a luck based factor. Machamp suspect test is crazy
There was an argument people had when sleep was banned that para was worse and sometimes I agree with that. Like yeah sleep is more consistent but para also slows
Also I would argue freeze is worse usually
@@balancemaster55 I feel like freeze is balanced because there is no move that solely freezes the target
I feel like we generally should accept that there is a sometimes annoying amount of RNG in pokémon, since trying to ban every RNG heavy element as non-competitive feels like, at that point play a different game.
I could see an argument that some metagames need a para clause, similar to sleep clause. I don't think that is remotely true in every metagame, since The fact that you can keep using a paralyzed pokémon means that it's harder for just one pokémon to spread para across a whole team. But paraspam is definitely the type of thing that is bringing RNG beyond what we should be okay with as pokémon players. It's annoying in generation 9, I imagine it's even more obnoxious in a generation where electric types aren't immune. Like combine something with T-Wave and a jirachi with body slam and you have nothing that is immune except for clefable (I'm pretty sure I remember hearing that magic guard ignores full para in generation 4, but I might be wrong) and anything with limber
@ are you gonna vote to ban critical hits next ? It’s a luck based game. Most moves have secondary effects. Mind you jirachi exists
Felt like a zoomer getting confused for a sec when dragon pulse hit clef
The hunchback thumbnail is brazy
bro is down bad
Pretty fitting since Notre Dame just reopened lol
Gen4 OU is literally paraflinch + sand spam, what a great metagame 😊
Ur name checks out
tell us ur younger than blunder without telling us ur younger than blunder
i'm glad jirachi doesn't get iron head in gen 3, y'all can have fun dealing with that garbage lol
They stuck in a 15 year old mentality, would be so easy to just disable serene grace on showdown
Ive never played it but this is what comes to mind when I think of gen 4 ou
The moment I saw Machamp was being suspected I knew what tier we were talking about
Jirachi really shamoned the tier for a decade and left Machamp to foot the bill
Hellfire reference in the thumbnail??? Agency artists are cooking
Smogonites just salty that Dynamic Punch places them one turn away from becoming the next Lavos.
Machamp being on the chopping block over the tiers strongest and most used mon is shocking to me.
The only Pokemon who gets DynamicPunch and No Guard, is the Machamp line. I don't understand why DynamicPunch doesn't go the way of Swagger in Gen 4, which Pokemon has any competitive use of that move? Machamp's other ability is Guts and it does get Close Combat. It would still have a niche of No Guard Stone Edge and slightly more power/speed than Hariyama... or just ban No Guard. You get to keep a mon in the tier to some extent and your main issue, one move + one ability, supplemented by paralysis, is gone :/ I hope if there is action taken, it's handled like this
And yeah, Machamp used to be my fav pokemon! My first game was Blue version, I was Machop in Mystery Dungeon Red Rescue Team, and it was my first trade evo ever when I played Platinum with one of my good friends growing up. It's still in my top 3, probably. Let my boy stay and just trim the fat, there's nothing else at stake
they should just ban dynamicpunch and iron head + jirachi tbh
jirachi ban would mean latias gets out of control
@@ddd8828Then just ban Latias again, mon already was Uber for many years anyway.
I definitely disagree with the idea of keeping past generations the same. They are going to change a ton regardless of bans, as people develop the metagame over time. I think a lot of the changes that have happened to DPP since current gen that people dislike are more due to changes in the metagame than due to rule changes. I also firmly think that tiers exist for the people who play them as either they're primary tier, or at least as something they play super regularly. And I would definitely defer to people who are playing in generation 4 OU tournaments over people who hold fondness for the metagame but mainly play current gen.
I don't have opinions on whether or not Machamp should be banned since I don't play the metagame at all. Too many people love stating super strong opinions on tiers they never touch (I'm looking at what I assume to be a pretty large portion of the comments around me lol)
Yeah, ban champ, while ignoring the paraflinching demon.
paraflinch and parafusion are practically the same in terms of odds to break through though, jirachi actually does stuff other than paraflinch while thats literally the only thing machamp does, removing machamp from the metagame doesn't cause a ripple effect anywhere, removing jirachi causes like 6 other things to get banned or to become borderline
@@CharaTF2yeah, and it's still more fun if we dont have to deal with 60% flinch
@@spindash64 ban machamp AND 30% flinch moves, jirachi is fine, the bad aspect of jirachi is ironhead (you also get rid of people swapping from iron head jirachi to togekiss)
@@CharaTF2 Champ needs to go, but so does Jirachi, imo.
Yeah, it may be important to the meta, but its still a cancer upon gen 4.
@@et34t34fdf jirachi without iron head doesn't need to go, thats why i believe iron head is the problem, you get to have jirachi but you lose the stupid rng that iron head adds
5% team usage means you won’t see it in 19/20 games. People really just want to focus on the 1 time it does something and not the overwhelming majority of time where it doesn’t
Lead Machamp is very funny, remember using it to varied success on low level ladder
Yeah I was loving gen 4 before people just started running 4 twave mons and a jirachi on every team. How is machamp uncompetitive but para spam isn’t?
machamps best roll is as a para spam abuser, with para support, its relatively fast when everything else is para'd, (because para reduces speed by 75% prior to gen7), hits like a truck, and the things that beat paraflinch jirachi lose to machamp (and the ghosts lose to machamp too before anyone tries to suggest switching in a ghost into machamp, youre just delaying the inevitable)
Yeah, Heavy Duty Boots was a necessity. Hazards are too punishing and defog/rapid spin can be played around without too much trouble. Wether it is with a Defiant/Competitive mon, a ghost type or more recently Gholdengo.
im only halfway thru but truth be told this machamp is not putting in work. it almost killed like 1 mon in the first game but like that machamp mirror match where u brought bronzong? machamp aint even come out, and the game before that he got maybe 50% of nidoqueen and like 30% off skarm. shit dont need to ban machamp keep it real. at 25:57 it loses you the game. you maybe could clicked something else but even in a prime position to sweep it chokes
It's not my fault,
if in God's plan,
he made parafusion so much stronger than a maaaan.
What is funny to me is, back in the day, I played Gen 4 competitive on Wifi, and naturally gravitated towards No Guard Machamp as a mixup lead. The difference between playing on Showdown and finding people to battle on forums was, that, most players on the actual game, used teams that they personally wanted to build, and players on Showdown use the "Top 20" mons as they are ranked on Showdown, and regularly optimize the team/keep variations, for the purpose of maintaining win streaks.
This is the thing I do not like about competitive ladders. It creates addiction in players, and it generates a lot of toxicity in people.
Gen 4 feels like playing Yugioh with Mystic Mine legal. Usually you're having fun and then the one guy with Mystic Mine shows up and it's agony.
But than if you played Mystic Mine, it'll be reverse.
Instead of banning machamp, para needs to go. It seems way more invasive?
Never thought I would hear "Ban" and "Machamp" in the same sentence
This video is reminding me how much I want there to be an electric and/or fire type with no guard. Using Dynamic Punch as go-to stab option is cool so I'd like to see that with Zap Cannon and Inferno.
nobody noticing that jirachi and clef are on every team and should be banned
There's been so much policy and Discord talk about Jirachi, mon being the most controversial Pokemon in DPP for many years.
I mean I agree that having a competitively viable strat based on denying your opponent the ability to play the game is bad generally. It feels bad to play against, and strategies like this are inherently much better at stealing games they shouldn't which feels much worse. The format would probably feel better without it imo so regardless of old gen or not if it's an improvement it should be done.
Machamp used Dynamic Punch!
Day 31 of requesting Anger Shell Terrakion in AAA!
I never played DPP competitively since I was more invested in rom hacks at the time, but it's always so comfy seeing older gens getting vids without a bunch of crazy mechanics going on.
Christmas present from Joey should be a new DPP OU the movie
my CB dynami punch x metronome machoman did not dominate like it was s'posed to
also, if captivate didnt require the gender check itd be a great move
Love how you said leave old gens alone... Some mons deserve testing at this point but there are so many mons we/Smogon weren't entirely correct about and it's fun to play what it scenarios
Banning Thunder Wave is the smarter way to go that addresses both Machamp and (to a slightly lesser extent) Machamp and is indefensible to keep in a format where paralysis is so overwhelming. They don't even have the excuse like they do with Iron Head or Dynamic Punch that "it's only broken on one Pokemon." Smogon needs to stop being allergic to banning moves.
I feel like this mon IS this tier.
old gen players will ban everything until the game is solvable with 0 rng and under 12 mons. Rachi is next. everything is next. there will be no rng in old gen ever again. At one point they'll just say crits are broken and mod the game for it.
Crit explosion is so satisfying.
Gen 1 mons shouldnt be able to be Banned. But on the other hands specific sets on the pokemon should be banned. Like id hate to see it go but No Guard Dynamic Punch for example.
Jirachi is my favorite Pokemon, but I do not like how strong the combination of 1/4 Speed Para in conjunction with Serene Grace Iron Head in a Gen where base 100 Speed is pretty fast and Sand is permanent. All of that makes playing against Jirachi miserable and playing with Jirachi cookie cutter. I wish it didn’t get Iron Head and instead ran Meteor Mash as its physical Steel move because fishing for Atk boosts would be way more fun. (I know Jirachi gets Meteor Mash in most Gens-not 3-but Iron Head is way too consistent to use Mash over it.)
Day 43 of asking for a Gen 9 Mix and Mega Vid. Todays suggested set is Scizorite Weavile for that Technician Ability
I think banning Dynamic Punch or No Guard is better than banning Machamp since without either one of those, the Parafusion strat Machamp strives for becomes nonexistent. I saw people saying they might try Sash Machoke in Machamp place and it might become another Dugtrio/Diglett scenario.
As far as Jirachi goes, you might have to ban Jirachi sadly. Iron Head ban is more ideal but Zen Headbutt or even regular Headbutt exists as a replacement and a Body Slam ban is just silly and would just be replaced by Thunder Wave or Thunder Punch for para chance. I know people are scared of the repercussions of banning Jirachi, but it’s just too toxic and uncompetitive in the tier at the moment and needs to go. The only way to save it would be to ban Para itself but I know that becomes too complex of a discussion for the council.
the difference in iron Head and Zen/Headbutt is huge though. You sacrifice either power or accuracy, and you have to choose if you want your Rachi to be able to hit Ttar or Rotom.
Machamp is not broken, it has many flaws like being slow and it gets chipped down by all hazards and status.
This suspect isn't about Machamp being OP but playerbase wanting less hax / paraspam and having fun and Jirachi has metagame uses like checking Latias (which would not bother me, ban Latias if it becomes such a problem afterwards) while Machamp is just about clicking buttons, so Machamp at least causes less collateral damage if it were banned.
I mean Machamp also has a click into every one of its checks so if the user just doesn’t get outplayed the mon is nuts into all reliable balance structures. Not to mention forces viability into the complex lead metagame just because 50% is stupid
Is the thumbnail referencing hunchback of notre dame?
the howl typhlosion what a king what a legend
Doing headcalcs in a metagame that is 15 years old is crazy
Don’t ban Machamp just unban Salamence from DPP OU. Fr fr.
Can we suspect test Snorlax in GSC next? lol
Bet it will have 50% winrate during any testing tho; since it's gonna win and lose every single game; since is on every single team
What a hilariously dramatic thumbnail for the topic, wth you thinking Joey.
I don't play this tier, but damn just the idea sounds silly.
Can you change the font and presentation of your music credits? I always think I have UA-cam captions on when I see it.
Def agree with rachi being a bigger issue than champ
Why not just ban Dynamic Punch? Isn't that the real problem?
I mean, No Guard Dynamic Punch but still.
Machoke and anything else with that move will never be broken/unhealthy or whatever, so 0 chance of that happening
@anna_medeia probably
Nice vid mate
Jirachi is a demon. I love these cute Pokémon that are killing machines like Azumarill, Clefable and Ogerpon.
Day 14 of asking for Pressure + Lefties + Sub + Protect Zamazenta on a stall team in AAA.
oh my god paraspam is so degenerate. we need a full throated support of the BKC agenda to ban paralysis, flinch, and machamp; that game 3 (uxie lead) was so painful to watch
the fact that they want to ban machamp rather than jirachi says a lot
This is the most foul ou tier ever lol the paraflinch is ridiculous I love it
day 1 of asking you to use unburden pokemon in trick room and fling iron ball to go from slowest to fastest
Ban Dynamic Punch, drop bad Mons from OU, and APOLOGIZE to Machamp if you're for his ban guys
let’s go i was waiting for this vid
Para is the bigger issue. Isn't fun to lose to bad luck. Even in new gens
ban machamp and do a complex ban for 30% flinch moves (removes 60% paraflinch), jirachi is fine its just paraflinch thats the problem
Will Machoke stocks rise now????
Joey pls use choice band!!
27:32 what about them being Fable-minded
Day 14 of asking for a new mamoswine stempede video with gator
When watch together from last draft league bro
Devious thumbnail
But she will be mine..... OR she will buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurn!
Get this mon out of this tier if DynamicPunch is gonna stay.
I love how I'm getting casino videos recommended under this vid LMAO topical
I came to sing hellfire but I already got beat to it F ill neva complain about old gen content tho🍿
Lmao, all I’ve heard over the years is that Gen 4 is the best gen by far and now I discover the tier has descended into para, flinch and confusion spam??? Actual filth, give me the overstimulating rot of Gen 5, 6, 7 or 9 anyday.
DPP OU evolved into that many years ago, those comments you read/heard are pure nostalgia
@@anna_medeia I was thinking that this was the case, boomer “back in my day” mindset but for mons
Is the thumbnail Hellfire?
Gee i wonder why we cant just ban a move smogon never makrs any sense
give machamp thunder wave and jirachi confuse ray
Cant wait to see gallade get banned next because he synergizes with jirachi better than machamp and counters machamp. how long till we get the whole fighting type banned from ou from these gen 9 hacks? 🤪
the para spam is cancer wow...What made it get so bad?
day 1 of asking for scarf no guard dynamic punch machamp in nat dex OU
I think Machamp is alright
They're at it again
No, they should ban Jirachi, then ban Machamp.
Man I was waiting for gyara to get tpunched by the howl t-diddy game 1
T-diddy is so crazy 😭
I want it banned because I lost because of haxx... Oh please smogon is becoming a group of complaining players about something part of the game, if you don't like it, go play fortnite.
Seriously they are getting ridiculous. slowbro can't get confused by Dynamic Punch. Limber pokemon exist.... There's tools around it.... Rotom burns it and makes it completely useless...
my goodness this tier is miserable
As a DPP OU player, machamp should be absolutely banned
Stall teams abuse dynamic punch by paralyzing teams behind a sub
Basically para confusion while dealing impressive damage and banking on luck
Stall doesn't use Machamp since it has 0 defensive utility, Balance with some offense mons + shit like Blissey/Clefable does.
They should!
poke punches thrown machamp not living here.
Gen 4 OU is healing
gen 4 jirachi is so cancer man
I still don't understand what singles players mean when they say "uncompetitive." Bright powder is banned because it is "uncompetitive," but it is "uncompetitive" in the same way that a little league team would be uncompetitive against MLB teams. If you legalized bright powder in any tier, it's usage rate would be exactly 0% unless people want to meme. I'm assuming Machamp's relatively low usage rate makes this a pretty fair comparison. The singles community just selectively discriminates against RNG, damage rolls, cool, critical hits, fabulous, confusion, go jump off a cliff, bright powder, there is a special place in hell for you. I just don't get it.
i don't either. paraflinch seems to be just as egregious as brightpowder would be, but it's not being touched, why? genuinely trying to understand this.
@@CptChrispy It's to reduce the number of situations where games become only about luck rather than skill/tactic. While you can never fully get rid of luck in Pokemon, you can reduce its prominence.
Brightpowder isn't banned because it's a good item. Brightpowder is banned because it falls under the evasion clause.
Just accept that Pokémon has luck involved. If you don't like it, play another game.
Smogon is getting boring I understand why people play VGC more
@@echogaia1708 go play vgc then lol
Day 90 of asking for Sudowudo special attacker in UU! *laughs in lying*
like fire, hellfireee
WHAT?
Hope not, having machamp give value to psychic moves
Pokeaim please let me out of the basement it’s so cold in here