I agree with what you're saying. I used to play a lot of warhammer fantasy while growing up and I have a large chaos army in a box in the basement. When my children got older I wanted to introduce them to miniature gaming and for a long time I tried to find a game that was simple enough for an eight year old to learn. When AOS was released last summer I quickly realised it was the perfect introduction game for them. Now six months later we are building terrain together and painting miniatures and are having a great time playing the game. So yes I think this was the right move for games workshop.
+Pär Lindström I do not like AoS at all, but I love hearing that you got your children super passionate about miniature wargaming. I guess that I, as a 30 year old, fall outside of GW's target demographic.
+Reb Brown i can understand that AOS doesn't fit everyone. but as a 40+ parent that don't have too much time to spend on this it works really great. also you can play a battle in an hour or two which is about as much time as you can get your children to focus. but I'd love to see that GW maybe released som advanced rules for AOS as well, so it could appeal to more.
+Pär Lindström This story is spectacular, and exactly what I was talking about! I'm so glad that you've been able to get your kids into wargaming with something like this. Good on you, and thanks for watching!
Tabletop Minions well I'm glad too cause now I have a very good excuse to play cause it counts as quality time with my children. The only thing I really think GW does wrong is the lack of female miniatures. This actually nearly put my daughter off the whole thing. Luckily I could buy some female characters that I found on the net. Not from GW though.
+Pär Lindström Too bad that Battle Sisters haven't got a real treat since a long while, and that 40K its far more complex. However, remember that Elvin armies have a good selection of female miniatures. Some of my favourite ones among the whole Fantays range are the Sisters of the Thorn and the Sisters of Avelorn, meanwhile both lines have really detailed eagles and horses; HE have a lion chariot and WE have Glade Riders, which have riders of both genders, and as a whole army have way more female models. It's not uncommon to see that the few female players often tend to be attracted towards Elvin armies, which have some of the more aesthetic miniatures in the whole GW selection.
I definitely appreciate your explanation and clarity! I was the little child you described about 25 years ago- never had the money to get into the hobby. Now, with these sets and having had converted my wife into a RPG player, I feel like I can fulfill a childhood dream! Than you so much for the videos!
The problem lots of people, including myself have, is that AoS is not really a reboot or a change of warhammer fantasy, it is it's destruction and replacement. It just is not the same game, they just turned it into 40k, right down to including space marines. It's just that simple, GW no longer makes Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k, its 40k and the other 40k. I can see you'd be interested if you were a 40k player, if you preferred 40k already then obviously AoS is more up your street.The people who played fantasy over 40k did so because fantasy was a wargame, not a skirmish game, you were actually fielding an army worth the name, and you felt like a general when you played. AoS does not, and never will, scratch that itch. Imagine if your favourite car manufacturer just said ''yeah, the whole car thing, that's done, we're only making monster trucks now. But hey, give our monster trucks a chance, they're really good''. A monster truck cannot satisfy my need for a car, no matter it's merits.
while age of sigma has worse lore than Warhammer fantasy, game wise it's a lot better. it's far easier for new players to learn the rules and jump in than Warhammer fantasy
Luckily you can still play 8th edition all you want my friend! can't buy new models and rules, no, but if you were a player, and needed to scratch a little itch, it's still there ; )
I'm sure there's scope for getting new models, Ian; sure, it's difficult if you're playing Bretonnia or Tomb Kings and want to expand, but you could always invest in Fireforge Games' models for Bretonnians or spruce up/proxy some Vampire Counts units for Tomb Kings, I suppose. As for surviving armies you could put them on third-party square bases or even just rank them up on the round bases as best you can. Not the best solution, I know, but I'd hardly say that WHFB players have been robbed of expansion opportunities.
As a bret player it is a pain in the ass, fortunately I can thank fireforge games, darkzone miniatures and Perry miniatures for their awesome models. There are people out there that have made the 9th age aswell which raises my spirit and hope that humanity isn't completely lost.
+Jack the critic Easier =/= better. Why not have AoS alongside Fantasy so that those who enjoy a complex wargame can play Fantasy, while more casual relaxed people can play AoS.
What I hate most about AoS was that it REPLACED Warhammer Fantasy. Why not have it alongside WF as a way of getting people into the hobby, while leaving regular Warhammer alone for all the fans that were already here?
They very likely just didn't have the resources (since sales were flagging) to start *another* miniature line, so then needed to rip off the band-aid and make the change. When I line is selling poorly, you don't keep it and add another line. Thanks for watching!
Tabletop Minions They still are reselling the old models, so why not just keep the fluff since they're still selling the models under a different name?
I completely agree with everything you said. I was that 12 year old kid, the one with the screw loose that even when they said "yeah this is going to cost you x and you need l,m,n,o,p first" wasn't turned off. But I was always a hobbyist first because everything was so cool I never managed to buy enough stuff to play a game. As an adult I turned to 40k, but to be honest the competitive scene (and complicated rules) meant that I never had fun playing, so back I was to just painting. AoS has brought new life back to miniatures for me, I can buy whatever i like because it's cool, I don't need to have X% troops and whatever, I can then roll some dice and have some fun with other like minded people who don't take it too seriously. IMO 40k is the GW's option for the miniature 'power gamer', AOS is the hobbyist's game for painters and collectors who also want to play a game.
+Mike Latter "40k is the GW's option for the miniature 'power gamer', AOS is the hobbyist's game for painters and collectors who also want to play a game" I think you hit it right on the head, and I'm glad you're getting back into playing with Age of Sigmar. Thanks for watching!
That is unjust and forgetting history, however. In essence, you are saying that it's good that it's easy and silly now because you don't take it too seriously. But, it's a tabletop wargame, it's meant to be quite serious and complicated. Warfare is, and the creator of wargaming (H. G. Wells) made it quite serious and complicated. Fantasy is meant to be Fantasy, not AoS. He would be ashamed to see kids in the 21st-century grumbling about the enterprise we have built, wanting it to be easy and frivolous. I agree, that option should be there for you, of course, it should, but, that shouldn't be the thing itself, thus forcing all of us to play the way you want to play and view it the way you view it. This is one of the biggest problems people have with AoS. It's not as much a tabletop war game now and it has lost some of its strategy.
I don't see how your opinion of it makes it so or can be true. Both Fantasy and 40k are, or were, for the miniature 'power gamer', and painter and collector. They should be on equal footing, more or less, and yet have the flexibility to mould to both player types without casting one aside, they should both be serious whilst remaining a fun game. It is about balance, and it's not rocket science. Well, clearly the players thought so (and GW, or the players and in turn GW). I wonder if the players (some of the players) are to blame for all the changes and not GW itself.
I’m 51. I’ve never gamed. About two weeks ago, I saw your video on painting the Gutrot Spume, and had to find out what it was...when I saw all the Maggotkin of Nurgle, I was astonished! From there, I discovered Nighthaunts...oh, man... So, thanks for passing that bug on to me! Picked up Liekoron The Executioner to mess with, with the group of Blightkings inbound.
Destruction of the old world? Agreed, that was a shitty thing to do. New lore? Subjective, some people like low fantasy some people like off-the-wall fantasy.
I started playing GW core games in 1983 with WFB 1e. Checked out of the core stabled in 1998. AoS has brought me back in. Its a huge step in the right direction for their games.
Just want to say I love your videos! I just started into the miniatures hobby (backing Kingdom Death: Monster started this obsession) and videos like the "wet palette" have been a huge help. Also picked up Age of Sigmar starter set thanks to you. Keep up the awesome work!
This was a great video. I played GW games since the Rogue Trader days, but stopped a long time ago due to the amount of time needed to paint armies. I haven't played for years (other than a few campaigns using Realm of Chaos Warbands rules from the very first ROC books) - Age of Sigmar has really sparked my interest, not only because of the new minis, but also because it gives me an easy way in to re-paint just a few of my miniatures
+Robert Fransgaard Absolutely. I really feel that's what GW was hoping for. Plus, maybe you'll buy some new models because they're cool. And then maybe, eventually you'll start buying 40k models and build an army. But it's totally up to you. Thanks for watching!
I think there is an ever stronger recent theme of GW introducing new entry products to make their games more accessible from a cost perspective. As well as the re-tooling of WFB as AoS there are the "start collecting" boxed sets for WH40K and AoS, Betrayal at Calth (contains a decent sized Marine army for 30K or 40K for £95 or insert preferred local currency here) and now the new Deathwatch game (more specialised but still a good number of miniatures for the cost). Economics suggest this should work as they are trying to build market share, particularly given they seem to have have been more focused on upping the average cost per sale recently (look at all those big plastic superheavies of recent vintage......). Will it work is the next question? Perhaps, they are also investing heavily in free to play mobile gaming to broaden the brand appeal, I'll be reading this year's annual report with interest.
I remember being that 11 year old looking a wall of miniatures and buying a $12 box of Orcs (the small green one with the Arrer Boyz and the others with swords and shields) and a $4 White Dwarf. That magazine had a massive battle between the greenskins and the Empire. There was a lot to read and the narrative of the battle was awesome. My young mind really engaged in the fantasy and my miniatures came to life. Fortunately, there were stats on the back of boxes at the time. So at my local game store there were a couple kids a few years older than me and they were willing to show me how to play. That's right. I played with 10 unprimed and poorly painted Orcs split into two units versus a small unit of High Elf Spearmen from the 4th Edition box set. It was a blast. I didn't need a rulebook, or a $60 box. I borrowed some dice from the store, which had a great community, and engaged in a hobby that grew in complexity and depth as I matured.
If you think the simpler game style of age of sigmar is the correct step for GW you'd only be half right. The real smart move for them would be to simplify the rules into a booklet about the size of a codex (which is totally possible), and take steps to reduce the cost of an army to start. The reason why GW has seen a loss in people joining the game is because the cost to start an army is roughly 300$ including the rules and army books, and they're targeting 12-17 years olds. GW see themselves as the rolex of plastic, and don't understand why customers aren't buying en masse.
For a long time a young would be player it was so difficult to continue playing 40k with a limited budget. I think Sigmar makes our wonderful world so much more accessible! Definitely a step in the right direction.
Forever angry. I don't mind the rules changes or the marketing shift, that's all smart and good and I applaud the business move, but did they *have* to murder the entire goddamn world and invalidate thirty-some years of fluff in one go? It doesn't help that The End Times was a very unsatisfying scenario from a fan's perspective, but the bottom line is they burned away the entire setting and started fresh with something that at its core, isn't Warhammer any more.
Because it was needed to to introduce such a huge change! And DUH, of course this isn't warhammer anymore, to begin with it doesn't even figure in the title, go figure.
Gotchaed on that one, considering our meta unanimously says AoS (unlike the odd case of W40k being mentioned from time to time rather than just 40k.). Still it's not warhammer anymore. That place blew to kingdom come and civilization has bloomed. No it would have not worked in the old setting.. It's not something just about the rules: the setting, the approach, and structure of the new miniatures. But let's go for the rules: do you think that they'd have tolerated those rules with such a strong connection still remaining to the old method? It's called burning the ships or sunken costs: they destroyed the Old World because they wanted to make the change permanent and after this there's no way back (which, make no mistakes, would have happened with the setting still intact).
Not sure we'll ever agree about that, since one of my local GW blokes recommended I should just use the rules to continue playing with what I already had to bulk up my forces before 'properly transitioning', and also apparently bits and pieces of the Old World still exist intact within Sigmar's new nightmare realm of nonsense (who knew the Big Sig was a chaos god?). That sounds awfully like not burning *all* the ships just in case to me, which is even more deplorable. I guess my response here to GW's contempt for their existing Fantasy players is a polite "Well fuck you very nice, I'm taking my money elsewhere" I still have a copy of the old (real) Warhammer and cheap third-party minis/paint aren't hard to come by...
The only piece "intact" is mallus which is a huge ass asteroid made of remnants of the explosion resulting from the old world's death. Sigmar isn't a chaos god, he's the avatar of Azyr and thus he's a god in that "realm" as everything can be shaped to his will there. There's, truth be told, people who have inherited cultures of the Old World but this could be more seen as Sigmar being nostalgic and trying to recreate what was lost. Right now the setting is gone, almost everyone from there is gone, with only a few people and "remnants" (generally souls, 99.9999% of the time) having drifted around. Well, good for you to have real Warhammer... Fantasy Battles. I won't force you to play the real Warhammer Age of Sigmar. Still think it was for the best.
you sold me..my place down the street is running this on Thursday nights..and like you said.if i dont have tons of extra cash but wanna get into a hobby this seems like it would do the trick..thanks for the video..needed something to validate checking it out
My main issues with AoS were the total lack of point balancing. I found the Sudden Death Objectives to be rather broken, if you have the ability to summon stuff. And the loss of Strength vs Toughness for determining wounds. I liked all the things you mentioned in this video. Those were much needed. But they could have done so while keeping the good stuff. They've thrown the Baby out with the Bathwater. The General's Handbook did fix a lot of those issues though. They would have gotten so much less hate from their loyal fans if they started with that.
Well thank you very much because I used to collect warhammer like 15 years ago and I am trhinking of starting again now. Your video has given me some light about this matter.
I think the bluster has only died down because those who were upset aren't talking about it anymore. (myself included) I've played a good amount of 8th since, but I'm just tired of fighting about it. I understand a lot of the reasons to like AoS, but none of those are valuable for me. I'm just playing other games more often now.
And perhaps fighting is the wrong word. My friends who enjoy AoS have been trying to "convert me", talking to me about the games merits ad nauseum. I am just not interested. I've given it a try on multiple occasions, and I'd rather keep on playing 8th. AoS is not the game for me, and it's replaced my game at all my local gaming spots.
+Shao Kahn Is it the difference between a Skirmish game and a Rank-and-File war game that decreases your enjoyment of it? Is AoS thriving at your LGS's?
Paul Kelly It's a contributing factor. I have a wide variety of skirmish games I'd rather play. AoS is still popular at my local GW, but not at the other game stores.
The way you explain situations and ideas is very smart and easy to understand.. your real life example of a couple of young kids/teenagers trying to get into the hobby and then get shut down by the massive entry cost of rules books and the likes is EXCATLY RIGHT! this did and does happen in our hobby/industry.
Thank you for the considerate and well-stated thoughts quite contrary to the Internet zeitgeist but quite in line with a reasonable assessment of the game. Applause for Uncle Atom, one of the most eloquent and thoughtful commentators on the miniatures gaming hobby!
I agree with everything you just said, I'm a 32 yr old tabletop right player who has always been interested, but intimidated to get into war gaming. This past weekend I happened to walk into a warhammer store and the guy running the store got me interested enough into AOS that I made some purchases and am now in the process of learning everything. So far having a blast
My Stages of Immersion into Warhammer Age of Sigmar: 1) I decided to try it because I had a lot of old fantasy sets that I bought for 40k conversions 2) On round bases, this did not contradict my 40k collection. 3) at first I made models that could also be in 40k, but then I realized that there is more freedom in Mortal Realms than 40k - after all, each model can be given a taste of its own Realm. 4) Now I am specifically looking for more old fantasy miniatures to convert them to Age of Sigmar. Think about it: millions of people have old Bretonnia, the same rows of the same model. And very few have Bretonnia on oval/round bases in a new fantastic setting. It's unique - it's better!!!
This is exactly the reason I have liked blood bowl so much - you did need the box but after that, you could get a team by buying a single box and pretty straightforward to play.
As someone who is returning to the hobby and is on a limited budget, and also primarily interested in collecting & painting AoS seems to be created just for me!
I completely agree with you. It made me interested in starting an army. I started Bretonnians because of it. Although they shut down a lot of the old miniature ranges. I sold my minis for almost twice the value!
I buy and paint Age of Sigmar miniatures cause they are cool. The detal level is quite high even if i dont like some styles (like the simil ultra-marine...never liked 40k style). But i can understand the people that played warhammer fantasy for years and now have nothing left. Plus, the prices of miniatures are quite high compared to other companies (Avatars of War,Scibor etc...)
+lucioluciolucio85 They don't have nothing left, they can still play with their friends. It's just that they won't have anything new from now on. A lot of angry gamers forget about the fact that they can still play. Nobody forces them to play Aos if they don't want to. A lot of people always said that GW wants their money and that the hobby is too expensive, now they are free :D.
+taithays I've embraced that as a positive of the move to AOS for warhammer fantasy. Now I can have an end point in sight for my massive horde of warriors of chaos collection! Locally we have a 9th age group starting up & kings of war have army lists for the old warhammer fantasy now.
Great video. 20 year veteran and I agree! I can still play 9thAge which is a community driven rule set for Warhammer Fantasy, with other fans of the big version of the game - now with better, evolving rules - but also can play AoS too, and meet new people and players - and collect any minis I want. The new ones look great... My 10 year old self would explode at the quality of mini's available now!
+Voltan Ignatio Yeah! I just picked up The Glottkin, and that model is amazing. It'll be a huge project to paint, but I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for watching!
I came into the hobby a few months after aos dropped, and it has fit my needs perfectly. I mostly want to paint what I want a maybe play a game sometimes. With the ease of entry, I have over the past 5 months bought books, audio books, just came home from a painting session with a friend and I am getting close to a couple of armies of variable sizes. I enjoy it immensely, and since I buy what I want, not what I need, it makes the painting a playing so fun. It's like different consoles (I come from a video gaming background); some want the ps4, some want a wii u. There are now wrong answers, just the right answer for you personally. If you make the right choice for you, great :)
As someone who just began getting into miniature war gaming, I do find AOS to be an easy and interesting game to play. The other editions seemed very complicated and I never understood the army books concept. Obviously, those who were accustomed to the earlier editions will find AOS to probably be too easy and unchallenging. But I figured that the new game was more for people like me who were just beginning. This was an excellently prepared video! It was Informative and really defended the other side of players. Well done Atom 👍love your videos btw!
+Ryan Gahman Thanks, I really appreciate it! I feel like I rarely actually prepare for these types of videos, so I'm glad it comes across as if I'm a prepared adult. Thanks for watching!
I've been a long time fantasy player also, since the beginning of my fifth edition. This latest roll out for Age of Sigmar has got me painting more than I have in years. There is something about the freedom of it all makes you want to put things together paint it and play. When we would play league games at the store I could see perspective players, or their parents, enthusiasm drain when we would explain what it would take to play. Now I can tell them all the boxes are there, anything they want to play is fine, they can put it together paint it how they like, and best of all the rules are free online and simple to learn. Great video.
+Thelnorn1 I have to admit, I've been painting a ton the last few months (not just for Age of Sigmar) but the Age of Sigmar stuff has been most on my mind. I'd like to bring a bunch of it to Adepticon and hopefully get some games in there. Thanks for watching!
There is one important part that is generally overlooked. New prices, a decent AOS bunch of minis is not that far away from whay 2400 points of fantasy used to be say a year ago (depending on the army of course)
+Lucas Perez Yes but they MINIMUM to get in is much lower. Before your talking BRB, 70, Army book, 50, Hero, 25, and at least two boxes of troops, 35. So your paying a minimum of 220 just to get started. Now the minimum could be you just want to do a 1v1 with someone else starting and they guy you like is 25. So compare 25 to a Minimum of 220, thats a LOT more appealing to others. Also you dont have specific points so while a box of Eternals might cost 50 its not like you have to have 2 of them just to start playing.
I know this is late but I've build a 113 wound army (with I think around 2k points for 8th ed) completely to my liking with £160. I have 40 infantry models (20 swords,10 crossbows, 10 greatswords). 6 single model units (3 wizards, warrior priest, witch hunter, general.) 3 Monster models (Demigryphs) and a character (volkmar on a war altar) and a Helblaster volley cannon. Considering this is a legacy army I'm saving about £120 on not buying the books.
Never had a chance do dive into fantasy before, I tried but never managed to finish a decent 'list' to actually play. So this was amazing news for me. At first I was skeptical about the sudden change. But I couldn't be happier, haven't painted and enjoyed warhammer this much since I was that 12 year old kid.
Because when they are trying to revitalize something that loses them money, having to versions of a game confuses new players. No game or company would do this. People don't quite grasp how much fantasy was tanking. in the end there were reports of it comprising 5%!!!! of their revenue.
when I was 12 in 1992, my parents bought me Hero Quest because I thought it looked super cool. I loved it, barely found anyone who would play it with me, but didn't give a crap. I saw a small brochure inside for games workshop, which talked about WH Fantasy, 40k and Space Hulk which had just come out. I was hooked. Mom bought me Fantasy (don't remember what edition). I painted the entire Elf and Goblin armies. I read the rulebook over and over, and the accompanying "battle bestiary." When we drove to Wichita away from our small town (which had no game shop), I got to go and buy a goblin rider buying a spider, some snotlings and even a catapult. However, in the small KS town where I grew up, there weren't any other 12 year olds who wanted to do this. I never played one game with anyone. The years went by and now all I have left is a goblin archer or two. I would kill just to see the Battle Bestiary again! So I still dig the crap out of the lore, even bought a few space marines to paint for fun, but still never got into it. Too expensive, don't know anyone who plays and not really wild about showing up at the local shop as a total noob. But I still LOVE the fluff. So I found this channel and a bunch of the lore channels and have been watching, and last night I heard about this new edition of Fantasy, if that's what you'd even call it. Hearing your take on it, it almost sounds to me like I can get back into it, and not give up all my discretionary income. I think it's a good thing.
+Me And My Shadow It's a really good thing, and I hope you do get back into it and start painting and playing again. Thanks for your story, and thanks for watching!
For what it is worth, it has been a good move at my local store. Fantasy games were quite rare, but we have played regularly once or twice a week after the new rules came out. At first, it was just me and the store owner, but we have added two more players since then, and interest is growing. What I loved right away was the fact that I could just put down all my models. I had a zombie dragon sitting in my closet for years that I finally dragged out and put together because I could finally field him without having to play a 3,000 point 7-hour game. The same goes for starting new armies and adding units. The new Iron Jawz look amazing, and I love that I can just buy 2-3 boxes of stuff and I'm ready to play with them, either by themselves or as an add-on unit to one of my other armies. I do miss the old lore. I would of rather had the Old World be a post-apocalyptic wasteland rather than just completely blow it up. But, I can still play the old armies in the Old World, nothing is stopping me. I also miss certain elements, like perils of the warp, flaking attacks, routing units, and I still use movement trays! But overall, I love AoS.
I wanted to get into the hobby for years but the cost and rulebook scared me... The AoS starter set came out and I figured: why not? So the last few months I have been painting a lot (the main reason I wanted to get into it really) and having a lot of fun doing that. I have very few friends who play miniature games but a lot who really are into board games. AoS is the perfect way for me to bring a bunch of models (2 reasonably balanced armies) and let my opponent choose his and have a fantastic afternoon of gaming. Same thing with the Betrayal at Calth box, finished painting that, haven't got around to playing it yet but it's a game that is easy enough to explain to a new player and have a blast.
+drappke Getting new players into wargames is great when you can bring models for both sides, which is why smaller skirmish games are so great. Thanks for watching!
I'm writing from Italy. I could be wrong, but I think that Whfb was always more popular in Europe than it was in the US. Back in the days, in your average miniature store, Fantasy and 40k were maybe 50/50, and most of the times Fantasy was the bigger one, with 40K being the niche game. I remember I was very surprised when, on online forums, I discovered that on the other side of the ocean the situation was waay different, and that actually WHFB was a minor percentage of GW sales. We had a urban legend in the community (don't know if it's true) that if you put together all the money GW earned from Fantasy, it would still be lower than what GW earned from Space Marines alone! Anyway, back to my point, what I wanted to say is that the death of WHFB was a HUGE blow for the boardgaming community here. GW handled it extremely poorly, both economically (ah, all those people who spent hundreds of € buying End Times books..) and in a PR way. People were so fed up and angry that many simply abandoned the hobby, or started new games, like X Wings or Kings of War. Ten years ago, if you entered in a (non GW) miniature shop, 99% of the minis were Citadel miniatures, and you could see people playing GW games in every table around you, now GW games have disappeared, or if they still resists, they're the minority. It's either X wing, flames of war, kings of war, there's so much more diversity and that's a good thing for sure (I mean, before it was either Fantasy or 40k,nothing else) but GW totally lost the leadership position they used to have. I hope the Aos strategy is paying in the US, because here, in the Old World, afaik it was a huge "hole in the water" as we say here.
My problem with Age of Sigmar is actually fairly simple. I LOVE the look of the models, especially the new models. I was never into old fantasy because there were no players in my area, although I wish I had been at this point. my biggest gripe is that they bill the game as a beer and pretzels type of game, with a very limited rule set and a pretty flexible format. But here is the big problem. it is NOT a beer and pretzels type of game for the cost. My store offers at 10% discount on all GW products but i still see boxes of 5 models going for 70 dollars. The big monster minis like a big greater demon or Carnosaur can run you easily over 120 dollars for just 1 model. While there is nothing in the rules saying you can't play with just 1 model I have to point out, that is lame. You want to play with a large army, and get some model diversity but that will run you a few hundred dollars. Compare that to Warmachine, where for the same amount of money you could invest in a super solid game, with very well done rules and a very active and competitive environment and with actual support from the parent company. To me it is a no brainer.
An updated "Battlemasters" is the answer. At 10 or 11 that was my unwitting intro into Warhammer Fantasy. You got ~100 GW plastic fantasy dudes on sale for like $20 at ToysR Us (including a bunch of Goat Men) For a while those were the coolest things in my little universe. I was mind blown to discover the same universe on a much grander scale existed in hobby shops, or if you were really lucky, GW stores that dotted the landscape like 7/11's in more refined countries.
Age of sigmar and it's low barrier of entry is why I'm coming to play. New players are popping up everywhere. before it was a couple of grumbly dudes in the back with buckets and boxes of models, but now is fresh and vibrant. My few models go a long way and I can pull out my 5 extra formations of models and drastically change the composition of my army every game. Also, these new simple rules means i'm not constantly getting blind sided by BS rules every turn.. every game. it's fun.
I agree! I was never into fantasy before AoS. I actually used AoS as a jumping on point to start a Lizardmen army. Unfortunately, the AoS and Fantasy scene in my area isn't all that big.
So, I work with a guy who had me play X-wing with him and I enjoyed it. I was always a nonbeliever as an adult but always thought the miniatures looked cool. But, I'm a gamer at heart. I play WoW and love fantasy and need something else to fill my time. I came across Age of Sigmar as I was trying to find the end of the internet and it grabbed me. Fast forward two weeks and I've subscribed to your channel, Miniwargaming and Wargaming Girl. I bought my first stormcast eternal Liberator on ebay and am trying to find cheap paint to see if I like this experience. I pour over the free warscroll app reading up on these cool warriors. I think your salient discussion is exactly what drew me to this genre of gaming. I AM NOT spending $700 on an army. But, I might be able to stomach spending ~100ish (to get it past the sniff test of my wife) to try this hobby. Great show. I look forward to watching more.
+nasty33 I think it's a great hobby, even if you don't play. It's probably even a bit cheaper if you don't play, as you can then pick and choose what you want to paint rather than something you might 'need' for your army. Thanks for watching!
+newhoped So people stopped playing because of Age of Sigmar? Did their 8th Edition rule books suddenly burst into flames or all the words fall off the pages?
Our store ran one league and had to stop since everyone hated it so much. The rules make for a shoddy skirmish game at best, so people just moved on to something else.
+newhoped Same happened in my area. Some of the new sigmar boxes sold, but only because people were using the models for conversions or too have them sit on a shelf. Some people were trying to organize games and possibly a league, but they found the game was completely incapable of balanced play hence killing peoples enthusiasm for anything, but a few one offs every month or so. Fact is Age of Sigmar can't support leagues, tournaments or even campaigns hell it feels more like a board game then a minitures game. A decent board game, but nothing I would waste more then a hour or so on a week.
I am from post soviet Europe. When I was 12, I had a summer job. I worked a lot and I spent what I earned on 3 sets of core units (Silver Helms if I remember correctly). After that GW moved that unit from core to special. I painted them, but I never played any game and I never collected the whole army. I fully agree with your opinion. Now, when I am a bit older, maybe I could effort two Warhammer Fantasy armies to play a casual game with my growing son... instead of going on holiday together. With W:AoS it is much simpler to start and we will do that when he will be in the proper age.
Age of Sigmar positives: - Great models - Nice prices - Good for tabletop and the game Age of Sigmar Negatives: - It killed Fantasy - Mediocre to bad lore? (Is improving)
A great video. As someone who has worked part-time in a GW store in my past, you're describing a problem we encountered frequently. Those youngsters with the one or two boxes they can afford with their combined pocket money. And then you tell them they need paints. And a rule book. And an Army Book. And you see their smile fading because they realize they don't have that money. The same with older costumers who are curious and would like to do a little project just to see if it's for them. Just a small army. But unless they wanted to play High Elves or Skaven no chance. They heard the price and that was it. They calculated what else they could buy for that price. More often than not that potential new wargamer turned around and put the boxes back on the shelves. Both sides disappointed. Because neither got what they wanted. The interesting thing is, Codexes/Army Books/Battle Tomes still sell. No matter if you can download a black&white sheet online. It's the story, the artworks and the feeling of a book in your hand that people are willing to pay for. But for those that can't afford both the book and the miniatures... well, just print them out/take the rules out of the box. But as always, GW has no idea how to treat its costumerbase. The smart move would have been to draw the development out. Update Skaven/Beastmen/Bretonia Army books and give a few models. Then announce End Times. Use ET to merge armies (just as they did): Death, Destruction, Chaos, Order (Eternity Elves, Grand Alliance (Dwarves/Empire/Bretonia), Lizardmen). They could have drastically reduced boxes and partially prices needed for basic games while providing additional upgrade sets to create your army in the old style (making it more expensive overall in that case). If GW had kept WHFB as a general system in combination with AoS and made the pdf for all the rules accessible via their home page there would have been much less of an outcry.
I totally agree! I was completely intigued by the whole idea of painting my own models by hand before using them in tiny battles with other people, but I didn't feel like learning the rules to a complicated game. Then, when I walked into Games Workshop one time just to browse and see what the games looked like etc... I fell in love with Age of Sigmar (I have always been into Fantasy). However, I still did not fancy a heavy book just about the rules. Then, when the man who was working at the store handed me a four-page booklet of rules, I was completely surprised and ended up walking out of the store with all of the essential tools, some models (although only three small goblin-type creatures) and some paint. Therefore, I think that this version of the game is, as you said, the perfect strategy for GW to bring in multiple younger and/or new customers!!
I completely agree. it was actually the rules simplicity that really got me. I love to glue my little dudes together and give them an awesome paint and practice different skills with painting, texturing and weathering. but the rules were always intimidating. I have truck loaded of awesome 40k still in there boxes because I need to find someone to show me those baby steps of rules to get me into the game. as a result my 40k stuff is unpainted. when age of Sigmar came out. 4 pages of rules, boom starter box bought clipped and painted. I know people seam to hate on the SigMarines but I think they are awesome. The added plus, because the models a on the large side they are really easy to paint up and look really cool really quickly. awesome idea of them to attempt to revive an entry point game. my only complaint would go back to GW prices. but I do like what they are doing with the new faction specific starter sets. can't wait to see more :-) happy gaming thanks for the cool and inspirational channel
+David Brian The 'Get Started' boxes aren't very different from their Battalion boxes of old, they've just gotten a bit smarter with their marketing and called them 'Get Started' boxes. It helps to draw in new players, hopefully. Thanks for watching!
At first sorry for my english? its not my native. I think make a mistake. As you said cost to play WhFB(in my country at least) was preaty high, but why destroy old grim FB and create fairy tale of Sigmar? WhFB was about playing armies, they can create free WhFB skirmish rules for 5-10 models based on main rules. So any one can buy box of orks and play with friend who bought box of rats. And there were a lot less problem with comunity. I played wargames earlier(before wh) miniatures was ugly rules are too simple(warrior with sword in fullplate have same stats as warrior in mail with axe) i liked to write some stories about it. When i first came to local miniatures shop i liked both WhFB and 40k worlds and miniatures. I whanted to buy and play High Elves and Eldar, but i was a student at that time. But when i finally got some free money they destroyed WhFB. FB was cool it can be any thing from simple good-evil wars to some grey situations(good vs good). But AoS looks like a fairy tale(yes miniatures is cool not all but cool). I have no interest in AoS lore. If i buy some miniatures from AoS onely to plase it on rack(cabinet i mean). And now i wont buy 40k, im afraid that all ends with another AoS. GW make a mistake.
I like Age of Sigmar as it has allowed me to create a Chaos army filled with pretty much anything I like, lack of a structure might be bad for a game, but for collecting I find it heaven.
So here's the thing, I'm a Warhammer player for the last four editions and I would have jumped on the AoS band wagon without a second thought if it had been the following: a) A Historical Setting (play during the ACTUAL Age of Sigmar - you know before the Empire was formed) b) A full blown skirmish game in the Warhammer World - Mordheim Warbands all grown up c) Still allowed you to rank up those skirmishers into ranks using an alternative system (i.e. modified version of the current rules) But no, the world got blown up and they flipped me the bird and said "we're done with world you've loved for the past 15+ years, accept the new or GTFO."
+Tabletop Minions I feel like this should not be a surprise to anyone. GW has built a business on screwing their customers over. Hey....were going to release an "expansion" to the rules. Please buy everything you will need for this new ruleset....because we are going to cancel the entire game in a few months...
I agree with this. As many said below (I didn't read all 500+ comments), Fantasy was dead in my area for a long time. The local shops mostly stocked 40k and if you wanted any Fantasy beyond a new release they had to order it (we didn't have a GW store until a year ago). I don't play competitively or in pick up games at stores. My friends all have armies and my house is game central because I've got a dedicated game room. Despite that, I don't think we'd played a game of fantasy since sixth edition. However, when Age of Sigmar came out, we drug stuff out to try it and had such a good time we played it again. We made a few common sense tweaks to the rules to make it seem more like the game we remembered (you can't fire missile weapons if you are in close combat) and now play fairly regularly and people are building new armies. By the way, in our games, the Old World is intact. We didn't want to use Bretonnians in space. We are all building small new armies to embrace the new multiverse.
I've gone and bought Storm of Sigmar and the citadel essentials kit. Great only £40 to experience the new rules after 12 years of not playing Fantasy or 40k. And guess what, now I'm hooked again. the shorter rules sure need some more depth, in the form of expansions or at least a better army points system. But besides that huge improvement. Much easier to access and do whilst having a busy work rota. I think a few friends are buying in to it thanks to Sigmar too.
Making the game more accessible? Great. But despite their simplicity some of the rules are bad and they destroyed the fluff for no good reason. That's why the fans are angry.
Thank you so much for this. You may have finished changing my viewpoint. I was never a hardcore collector, I just love painting and never bothered to get into actually playing. But my big issue is the lore changes, but maybe I just need to dig deeper. Maybe I can find a slice in the lore that I like still. The new minis look cool, though the new irks do look like space marine orks to me still. I really wanna try painting a few of em.
I just recently got into the hobby and I'm loving it. Grabbed a start collecting set for Stormcast Eternals for like 80 bucks which came with quite a few guys. Once I played my first game I snagged a starter kit on sale for 90 from my local shop and now I have quite the army and I'm loving it. Found a lot of newer players as well and we are all having a great time.
This is what put me off warhammer as a kid because it was too expensive and always sounded too complicated for me. But with AoS I've been able just to jump straight into it (also helps I'm a grown ass man with my own money now)
I was into Warhammer Fantasy a long time ago, but I was one of those who just didn't manage to stay into it due to no one else near me playing it and just not being able to afford it... Then my wife found some of my old stuff, and she talked me into getting back into it with her. She's got a nice Stormcast army ( Bought her around 300 bucks worth of troops last Christmas ) and I've got myself a small Chaos army. Blood for the blood God! If it weren't for the changes with Age of Sigmar, we probably wouldn't be in it at all.
+Samsaccountwithaname I've heard stuff like this a lot. I need to finish my second army so my wife and I can play. She likes board games and video games, but I think she'd enjoy AoS as well if she didn't have to paint and build. She loves to knit, maybe she can make Glottkin a little sweater. Thanks for watching!
The points you raise are good and i agree with you that it made business sense for GW to do age of sigmar,however i still feel GW could have kept WHFB alive as a separate game within the same world,all GW had to do was make a simple skirmish set of rules in the WHFB old world,and kept WHFB as a scaled up version of the game. But i suppose the suits wanted a complete re-branding of the setting so that why we ended up with age of sigmar.I do miss the Lore and appeal of the old world be nice if GW do something with it again even if its warmaster again id be happy with that.
+Conan the Barbarian Problem is then they are adding to costs and not replacing. If you simply put AoS as an alternative then your still paying to make Fantasy and its only make 17% of your profits. This wasnt a situation of "how can we boost Fantasy sales" it was "Fantasy either has to go or we have to DRASTICALLY increase sales".
I think that this is a great thing. I am relatively new to the warhammer community, and I am building a small Dark Angels army to start. But the only reason I am building Dark Angels is because that is what came in the Dark Vengeance box set, so I could get the rules, models, and other excessories for super cheap. The main thing that keeps me from going into another army is the cost of the rulebooks. If I could have a simple, free pdf for all of the rules, and a free codex sheet I would have built a Blood angels army instead.
+TheMuffinMan328 Several wargaming companies are starting to release a free version of their rules via PDF. If you want all the fluff and hobby stuff, you usually need to buy the physical book, but you can start playing without it. I'm quite sure it's selling more miniatures. Thanks for watching!
They should have simply made a new edition of Warhammer that was simplified much like AoS, but also made an "Apocalypse"-style expansion so that when people amassed enough miniatures they would organize their force into regiments and play just like old Warhammer. Everybody would've won (no silly new background lore).
+James Gordley They seemed set on switching everything to round bases, so I'm not sure how well that would have worked. Interesting idea, though. Thanks for watching!
+Tabletop Minions Well, they did gave us ranks of Uruk-Hai pikemen and whatnot in LotR (which was all on round bases, and covered battles of every size). The biggest problem I can think of is making bigger movement trays for slightly looser formations (due to the width of round bases), and telling the WH vets how spaced out their old square-based models should be if they're playing against a newer player. But how inconvenient is that, in comparison to having the whole thing wiped out? :)
Personally I love Age of Sigmar, it's revitalised Warhammer Fantasy in my area. Not to mention that it's brilliantly designed in that it's perfectly balanced in terms of armies, no one army is more powerful than another because *everyone's* OP. And to paraphrase The Incredibles, when everyone's OP, no one's OP.
+Bainbow That's a good point about everyone being OP. I know a lot of Fantasy players who looked at the warscrolls and said, "Wow, [crappy unit name goes here] doesn't suck any more. That's kinda cool!" I suspect it was part of GW's plan. Thanks for watching!
+Tabletop Minions I'm sure it will something like - Oh Karl Franz, where did you go? - I just came back from somewehrearoundtheoldworld. - Oh! And you are alone? - I have a 3 millions of men behind me. - Oh god...
To me, I think the best move would have been somewhere between what they had with fantasy and what they did with AoS. Having that easily accessed entry point that AoS provides is a brilliant move, but the massive shift away from the ranked up troops and fluff that the fantasy vets had fallen in love with pushed a lot of those players away. Finding a middle ground for that would have likely made the game explode with a new popularity. Vets being able to introduce new people to the game with a lower entry point would have been fantastic, I remember seeing lots of people come up to our tables at the game shop and be fascinated by what they saw, but as soon as that initial sticker shock of just the rule books hit, they walked away with nothing. Scrapping the entire old world for this new setting and totally altered rule set instantly alienated quite a few of those veteran players, and for those of us that loved the game for those blocks of ranked troops and the massive army feel of it all find no interest in the game that was presented to us in place of the one we had loved. This seems to all be par for the course with GW anymore, make one brilliant move while simultaneously shooting itself in the foot. There could have been a great revamp of fantasy that was both new player friendly and veteran friendly, but they decided to risk losing those vets and just focus on the new blood. If this pays off for them in the long run, then good on them, but I think we would have seen an instant boom in popularity for this thing if they had opted to work harder on getting the fantasy player base on board with what they were doing right off the bat.
If you wish to dive into a fantasy setting, you should give Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings a try. It's really great and Para-bellum are producing a ton of minis !
I love this point of view. Its so true. I want as many people playing miniature games as possible and Age of Sigmar is going to so that. People hate change and they fear that 40k is going the same route but it NEVER will
See I got into Fantasy via Mordheim, and I am still into Mordheim, I love that game. The slow death of Mordheim always irked me and though its not a dead game per se, trying to get a game of it is nigh on impossible. I eventually upgraded to a full WFB army and then got a few games in and just as I was getting into it the End Times happened and the Old World got smushed and Age of Sigmar was spawned. What irks me about AOS is the horrible way that GW killed the old world, that NEVER needed to happen. The massive over simplification and mockery of long term players that occured with the "updated" army rules. I also utterly detest the rampant and heavy handed copyrighting/trademarking of everything now i.e, its not a Dragon its a Magmaroth or its not an Orc its and Orruk, it feels like GW saying "if you aren't using our stuff you are against us." I think what I'm saying is that I can be OK with the game itself and GW still make some great minis (though the amount of Zbrush sculpts over traditional sculpted models is starting to push me away but thats another matter.) but I hate, hate, hate how they handled the transition from Old World to the Sigmarverse. Oh and yeah this stuff is still freakishly expensive.... I really need to try Frostgrave.
Yep, everything You said it's true. Im 34 years old, Im father of 6 kids. Our adventure with figure games from gw starts with Blood Bowl. I think about something new from warhammer and Age Of Sigmar is the best point for someone like me.
ok while Your Argument is a Good one I Would like to Counter with this. Why did they have to Kill Fantasy to do it, they could have put some effort into a skirmish version of fantasy or even a bridge game of fantasy into 40K that was skirmish based or even a re-release of Mordheim (skirmish version of Fantasy from 6th ED) where the most models any player Needs to have is 20 and that is only if you play Skaven or Orcs and Goblins (there might be other warbands to idk) but for most the warbands the model cap is 15 but as it stands they completely discontinued and killed off an entire game in their effort
+Isaac Hudzinski "Why did they have to Kill Fantasy to do it" That's absolutely my main point of contention. Make a new game! Make a new IP! Is GW THAT creatively bankrupt?
I totally agree with what you said about the 12 year old going to the local game shop and seeing those awesome figurines sounded like you told the story straight from my childhood
I have played WFB for about 25 years (since 3rd ed.) and honestly although I miss GW's support of the old world I still play it with friends. No one told me I can't still play WFB. I also play AoS with some young relatives of mine who were scared away of WFB's model counts and costs, so to make a short story long you hit the nail on the head! Great video!
hey man, thanks so much for making this video. many great points and I've been enjoying the game this whole time I'm glad other people are at least checking it out.
another nice thing about Age of Sigmar, at least in my experience, is that it really stimulates players to get creative with converting/kit-bashing models. I play savage orcs/orks/orruks and I actually started playing after I had already build a decent army. The only problem was, that I had converted most of my models to dual wield spears, or to make their arms wave around even more etc, which made it a hellish job to fit them into a movement tray. However, now with age of sigmar, I am not restricted to square units (which imho does not make any sense at all for a race that presumably consists of war-monging gorillas who don't even have the patience to care for their weapons properly), and I can freely move my boyz around as much as I want. There are also other people at my local gw who, because of the whole "measure from the model and not the base rule", try to convert their models so that they can e.g. reach more enemies when they pile in, or are harder to reach because of the base. Which in these cases results in awesome looking models.
+Henrik De Wolf Yes, I'm enjoying the fact that my figures don't have to fit into specific blocks anymore, it gives me more modeling freedom. Thanks for watching!
Dear uncle atom,I've recently invested in the small AoS starter kit "storm of sigma" after almost ten years from stopping playing 40k. I was wondering does AoS have the freedom that 40k offered I.e. invented pretty the much what you want chapter/heroes etc. I've spent a lot of time to research (for free admittedly) but everything seems very set in stone. Other than the odd post on instagram I rarely see a stormcast army that isn't ultramarine (my apologises blue and gold). Adding to this the models seem very set, I'm struggling to find a hero who is almost a blank sheet to build on for example a space marine captain (the name may have changed...) was pretty much an open book to build as you saw fit. I've watched many of your videos and heard how you suggest this is a gateway game to 40k.I understand due to the basic game being free its unreasonable of me to expect the depth that 40k offered, however I would like to atleast construct my army/heroes/warscolls as I choose. What are you thoughts? Is there possibility to play storm cast not loyal to sigmar? I apologise if my comment appears stupid, I've be out of the "fluff" of war games a while. I really enjoy your videos, building my enthusiasm enough to make a return!Kind regardsConnor
You can paint them however you want. In fact, the hardcover original Age of Sigmar book shows tons of different paint schemes for the Stormcasts. Thanks for watching!
I agree that AoS is fantastic for new people getting into the hobby. 12 year old me would have loved AoS since he could have started gaming right away. Although, for Warhammer fantasy I just played very small games of warhammer fantasy and had a blast. When Warhammer Skirmish rules came out I used that to get several of my friends into the hobby. I'll probably start looking at AoS again if they ever come out some semblance of warband structure. Where AoS begins to fall short is once you have the beginnings of an army. Soon those friends will start arguing over what is fair or not. AoS is incredibly hard to play pick up games since you have to have an hour pre-conference discussion about the type of game your looking for, comp, comp rule set, etc. I would argue that no average 10-12 year old (anyone without a trust fund) can afford to even get into AoS. GW prices are more aimed at those in their late 20s and up (preferably those without children for more disposable income). The other part that still sucks is the complete destruction of the old world. I could care less for this new one. I'm not drawn in at all, all I see is protecting IP this and protecting IP that.
Age of Sigmar didn't kill Fantasy in my area. Fantasy killed Fantasy. The player base had acquired all they wanted and were only added the occasional purchase to their collection. Fantasy battle was utterly stagnant the price point (thanks to GW) for entry was insane. The lore - despite being a major obsession - was middling at best. Worst of all whole armies were non-viable due to this or that minor tweak to the rules. The cavalry nerf ruined Bretonnia for example. One edition spears were the way to go then it was pole arms. That hurt Fantasy a lot because it was such a transparent way to force people to buy new models. They really needed to redo the rules but they didn't stop there. The setting was the strongest element of the game but they chose to completely destroy it and I think that's what hurt them the most. The second most destructive thing was the presentation of the Sigmar rules. It looked like quick start rules so a lot of people felt cheated. It turned out the war scrolls was were a lot of the rules were. GW didn't convey that to the customer base very well and that lead to a lot of people feeling cheated.
+Dan Morgan Games Workshop is terrible at PR. Has been for years. I'm astounded at how an organization that big can stink at PR and marketing that much. Think of how amazing they'd be right now if they were actually good at PR and marketing. Thanks for watching!
Tabletop Minions I don't directly follow GW as I don't play their games. I do talk with a lot of gamers who do. One little nugget a friend told me about was how GW doesn't do market research. If this is true it means they have no idea what is going on with their customer base or even who really makes up their customer base. That is just asking for trouble.
+Dan Morgan I swear they did a survey a few years back, but generally, no - they don't seem to do market research. They don't interact with their customers much at all. Thanks for watching!
ehhh, the world was generic in the end and writing killed most of the great characters. AoS world is.... weird. But in the end, it's just a fantasy world where instead of a bridge to another country, it's a portal. Simple way to look at it.
Chris Grabenhorst That is true. The setting wasn't great but it was the games best element. The wargame RPG did some interesting things with the setting and some of it had good atmosphere. Compared to the rules themselves the setting was great.
Published by Osprey. They have produced a range of wargames rules books. Good old fashioned wargaming. No supporting ranges of miniatures supplements etc etc just a book. About £12 in the UK.
Let the tide of anger and rage flow in... I must be in that odd minority of "veteran" Fantasy players who actually don't mind these changes. I think the fact that they made it into a system where you can choose what scale of game (i.e. skirmish, full on huge army, etc.) is probably one of the best things they could have done for the system. That old cost prohibitive entry barrier was one of the most cited reasons people wouldn't get into Fantasy and I can't say that I blame them; even the "starter army boxes" were borderline false advertising since it you didn't nearly enough of the unit types and it was highly unlikely you were going to find someone who was willing to play that small of a point count game. If you were lucky enough, those boxes were still ridiculously priced for what little you got in them and you *still* needed that huge rules book to play. The new four page, streamlined rules have just enough complexity in them to make for interesting games even with a small warband. Combine that with the fact that you can download them for free, along with the war scrolls for old models, and what you've got is a move that should have been appealing to players, if most of us weren't so fearful and resentful of any sort of change to a game/system we like. I'm not saying all new editions of games are great (D & D 4th ed. a.k.a. the tabletop mmo) and that gamers are all stubborn curmudgeons, but we do have a track record of being catastrophically resistant to the very idea of changing anything about our favorite franchises.
+TheRunesmythe Yes, the barrier to entry has gotten *much* smaller with Age of Sigmar, and I really think that was their main goal, for once. And true, they had to expect resistance, but it does seem like the hullabaloo has started to die down. Thanks for watching!
this is so true. Just a week ago, I heard some people on the train talking about Warhammer, an dme being bored went and looked it up on my smartphone. And I saw the Age Of Sigmar stuff, and I was just like: I want this. Should be getting my first figures in the mail tomorrow.
All of this is flawed from the one simple fact, that they killed Fantasy to make this joke of a table top war game. Nobody wanted fantasy gone, they wanted it fixed from the "BUY ALL OF THE MODELS" rules that had been introduced in the recent editions. Of course nobody new was going to get into the game when it was twice as expensive as 40K and had become a jumbled mess with its newest rules. All they needed to do was sit and think for a bit rather than have this sudden culling of an entire fantasy world so that they could trade mark some of the most cringe worthy names within any fantasy genre to date. Not to mention how they completely pulled the rug on all the fantasy players who finally thought they were getting support for the game again only to find it being turned into "Fantasy the space marine-ing". Maybe if they had made it into an entirely different line for new comers to try out it wouldnt be so bad but i guess its too late for that.
"Now they're gonna go spend their money on crack" - LOLLLLLL
I'm dead lmao
😂😂😂😂
I died.
I remember when I first tried to get into war gaming. Good thing that the store owner also sold crack, that was a wild Tuesday afternoon.
+KeloseDEC I've never gotten the hang of Tuesdays. Thanks for watching!
Age of Sigmar: lowering crack use in 10 year olds since 2015.
thats what happened to me with the old warhammer, i couldnt fit the rule book in my backpack so me and my friend bought crack instead
It's a sad tale that we hear every day. Sad. Thanks for watching!
Junkies are the lowest cast in our human race. I shame on you.
@@OST1350 Junkies ? nah...Chaos space marine are the lowest.
@@OST1350 dude, have some empathy. Everyone is young at some point.
I know that as well. Couldn't afford that new Bloodthirster. Used the Money for crack and cocaine instead. At least that's affordable.
I agree with what you're saying. I used to play a lot of warhammer fantasy while growing up and I have a large chaos army in a box in the basement. When my children got older I wanted to introduce them to miniature gaming and for a long time I tried to find a game that was simple enough for an eight year old to learn. When AOS was released last summer I quickly realised it was the perfect introduction game for them. Now six months later we are building terrain together and painting miniatures and are having a great time playing the game. So yes I think this was the right move for games workshop.
+Pär Lindström I do not like AoS at all, but I love hearing that you got your children super passionate about miniature wargaming. I guess that I, as a 30 year old, fall outside of GW's target demographic.
+Reb Brown i can understand that AOS doesn't fit everyone. but as a 40+ parent that don't have too much time to spend on this it works really great. also you can play a battle in an hour or two which is about as much time as you can get your children to focus. but I'd love to see that GW maybe released som advanced rules for AOS as well, so it could appeal to more.
+Pär Lindström This story is spectacular, and exactly what I was talking about! I'm so glad that you've been able to get your kids into wargaming with something like this. Good on you, and thanks for watching!
Tabletop Minions well I'm glad too cause now I have a very good excuse to play cause it counts as quality time with my children. The only thing I really think GW does wrong is the lack of female miniatures. This actually nearly put my daughter off the whole thing. Luckily I could buy some female characters that I found on the net. Not from GW though.
+Pär Lindström Too bad that Battle Sisters haven't got a real treat since a long while, and that 40K its far more complex.
However, remember that Elvin armies have a good selection of female miniatures. Some of my favourite ones among the whole Fantays range are the Sisters of the Thorn and the Sisters of Avelorn, meanwhile both lines have really detailed eagles and horses; HE have a lion chariot and WE have Glade Riders, which have riders of both genders, and as a whole army have way more female models.
It's not uncommon to see that the few female players often tend to be attracted towards Elvin armies, which have some of the more aesthetic miniatures in the whole GW selection.
"Spend their money on crack... or whatever kids spend their money on these days" LOL
+Koreldy Or maybe they spend their money on records, or the Pokemons. I don't have any kids. Thanks for watching!
+Tabletop Minions You would've been a good father...
Koreldy this was by far the best part of the video. Perhaps this statement will make it on a shirt one day.
Magic the Gathering?
The fact that he said that with a straight face cracks me up so much.
"Do you have $700?" 😂 My favourite line.
Matthew Bester first comment I found that isn’t related to crack
@@IForgotMyUsername5000 are you sure? crack is expensive too.
I definitely appreciate your explanation and clarity! I was the little child you described about 25 years ago- never had the money to get into the hobby. Now, with these sets and having had converted my wife into a RPG player, I feel like I can fulfill a childhood dream! Than you so much for the videos!
The problem lots of people, including myself have, is that AoS is not really a reboot or a change of warhammer fantasy, it is it's destruction and replacement. It just is not the same game, they just turned it into 40k, right down to including space marines. It's just that simple, GW no longer makes Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k, its 40k and the other 40k. I can see you'd be interested if you were a 40k player, if you preferred 40k already then obviously AoS is more up your street.The people who played fantasy over 40k did so because fantasy was a wargame, not a skirmish game, you were actually fielding an army worth the name, and you felt like a general when you played. AoS does not, and never will, scratch that itch. Imagine if your favourite car manufacturer just said ''yeah, the whole car thing, that's done, we're only making monster trucks now. But hey, give our monster trucks a chance, they're really good''. A monster truck cannot satisfy my need for a car, no matter it's merits.
while age of sigma has worse lore than Warhammer fantasy, game wise it's a lot better. it's far easier for new players to learn the rules and jump in than Warhammer fantasy
Luckily you can still play 8th edition all you want my friend! can't buy new models and rules, no, but if you were a player, and needed to scratch a little itch, it's still there ; )
I'm sure there's scope for getting new models, Ian; sure, it's difficult if you're playing Bretonnia or Tomb Kings and want to expand, but you could always invest in Fireforge Games' models for Bretonnians or spruce up/proxy some Vampire Counts units for Tomb Kings, I suppose. As for surviving armies you could put them on third-party square bases or even just rank them up on the round bases as best you can. Not the best solution, I know, but I'd hardly say that WHFB players have been robbed of expansion opportunities.
As a bret player it is a pain in the ass, fortunately I can thank fireforge games, darkzone miniatures and Perry miniatures for their awesome models.
There are people out there that have made the 9th age aswell which raises my spirit and hope that humanity isn't completely lost.
+Jack the critic Easier =/= better. Why not have AoS alongside Fantasy so that those who enjoy a complex wargame can play Fantasy, while more casual relaxed people can play AoS.
What I hate most about AoS was that it REPLACED Warhammer Fantasy.
Why not have it alongside WF as a way of getting people into the hobby, while leaving regular Warhammer alone for all the fans that were already here?
They very likely just didn't have the resources (since sales were flagging) to start *another* miniature line, so then needed to rip off the band-aid and make the change. When I line is selling poorly, you don't keep it and add another line. Thanks for watching!
Tabletop Minions They still are reselling the old models, so why not just keep the fluff since they're still selling the models under a different name?
this honestly just sold me on Age of Sigmar
I'm glad to help. I hope you have fun. Thanks for watching!
I completely agree with everything you said. I was that 12 year old kid, the one with the screw loose that even when they said "yeah this is going to cost you x and you need l,m,n,o,p first" wasn't turned off. But I was always a hobbyist first because everything was so cool I never managed to buy enough stuff to play a game.
As an adult I turned to 40k, but to be honest the competitive scene (and complicated rules) meant that I never had fun playing, so back I was to just painting.
AoS has brought new life back to miniatures for me, I can buy whatever i like because it's cool, I don't need to have X% troops and whatever, I can then roll some dice and have some fun with other like minded people who don't take it too seriously.
IMO 40k is the GW's option for the miniature 'power gamer', AOS is the hobbyist's game for painters and collectors who also want to play a game.
+Mike Latter "40k is the GW's option for the miniature 'power gamer', AOS is the hobbyist's game for painters and collectors who also want to play a game" I think you hit it right on the head, and I'm glad you're getting back into playing with Age of Sigmar. Thanks for watching!
That is unjust and forgetting history, however. In essence, you are saying that it's good that it's easy and silly now because you don't take it too seriously. But, it's a tabletop wargame, it's meant to be quite serious and complicated. Warfare is, and the creator of wargaming (H. G. Wells) made it quite serious and complicated. Fantasy is meant to be Fantasy, not AoS. He would be ashamed to see kids in the 21st-century grumbling about the enterprise we have built, wanting it to be easy and frivolous. I agree, that option should be there for you, of course, it should, but, that shouldn't be the thing itself, thus forcing all of us to play the way you want to play and view it the way you view it. This is one of the biggest problems people have with AoS. It's not as much a tabletop war game now and it has lost some of its strategy.
I don't see how your opinion of it makes it so or can be true. Both Fantasy and 40k are, or were, for the miniature 'power gamer', and painter and collector. They should be on equal footing, more or less, and yet have the flexibility to mould to both player types without casting one aside, they should both be serious whilst remaining a fun game. It is about balance, and it's not rocket science. Well, clearly the players thought so (and GW, or the players and in turn GW). I wonder if the players (some of the players) are to blame for all the changes and not GW itself.
I’m 51. I’ve never gamed. About two weeks ago, I saw your video on painting the Gutrot Spume, and had to find out what it was...when I saw all the Maggotkin of Nurgle, I was astonished!
From there, I discovered Nighthaunts...oh, man...
So, thanks for passing that bug on to me!
Picked up Liekoron The Executioner to mess with, with the group of Blightkings inbound.
my problem is mainly with the destruction of the old world and the new lore...... which are complete shit
Destruction of the old world? Agreed, that was a shitty thing to do. New lore? Subjective, some people like low fantasy some people like off-the-wall fantasy.
What made Warhammer Fantasy (and still makes 40k great) is the gritty realism of it within the fantasy setting
+Nick Spears Exactly. Replacing Warhammer Fantasy, 30+ years of awesome lore, and replacing it with Asgardian hokeyness just sickens me. Lol
None of the fluff got replaced and 40k is in no way realistic. It's much closer to AoS than fantasy lore wise.
subaveragejoe2 It did, dude. Fantasy got wiped, AoS replaced it. You can't buy or play Warhammer Fantasy from GW anymore.
I started playing GW core games in 1983 with WFB 1e. Checked out of the core stabled in 1998. AoS has brought me back in. Its a huge step in the right direction for their games.
Just want to say I love your videos! I just started into the miniatures hobby (backing Kingdom Death: Monster started this obsession) and videos like the "wet palette" have been a huge help. Also picked up Age of Sigmar starter set thanks to you. Keep up the awesome work!
Glad to hear you're getting into the hobby, and glad to hear the videos are helping. Thanks for watching!
This was a great video. I played GW games since the Rogue Trader days, but stopped a long time ago due to the amount of time needed to paint armies. I haven't played for years (other than a few campaigns using Realm of Chaos Warbands rules from the very first ROC books) - Age of Sigmar has really sparked my interest, not only because of the new minis, but also because it gives me an easy way in to re-paint just a few of my miniatures
+Robert Fransgaard Absolutely. I really feel that's what GW was hoping for. Plus, maybe you'll buy some new models because they're cool. And then maybe, eventually you'll start buying 40k models and build an army. But it's totally up to you. Thanks for watching!
I think there is an ever stronger recent theme of GW introducing new entry products to make their games more accessible from a cost perspective. As well as the re-tooling of WFB as AoS there are the "start collecting" boxed sets for WH40K and AoS, Betrayal at Calth (contains a decent sized Marine army for 30K or 40K for £95 or insert preferred local currency here) and now the new Deathwatch game (more specialised but still a good number of miniatures for the cost). Economics suggest this should work as they are trying to build market share, particularly given they seem to have have been more focused on upping the average cost per sale recently (look at all those big plastic superheavies of recent vintage......). Will it work is the next question? Perhaps, they are also investing heavily in free to play mobile gaming to broaden the brand appeal, I'll be reading this year's annual report with interest.
leakycheese .
I remember being that 11 year old looking a wall of miniatures and buying a $12 box of Orcs (the small green one with the Arrer Boyz and the others with swords and shields) and a $4 White Dwarf. That magazine had a massive battle between the greenskins and the Empire. There was a lot to read and the narrative of the battle was awesome. My young mind really engaged in the fantasy and my miniatures came to life. Fortunately, there were stats on the back of boxes at the time. So at my local game store there were a couple kids a few years older than me and they were willing to show me how to play. That's right. I played with 10 unprimed and poorly painted Orcs split into two units versus a small unit of High Elf Spearmen from the 4th Edition box set. It was a blast. I didn't need a rulebook, or a $60 box. I borrowed some dice from the store, which had a great community, and engaged in a hobby that grew in complexity and depth as I matured.
+Redfield517 That's great! And now, newer players can do that again with Age of Sigmar. Thanks for watching!
If you think the simpler game style of age of sigmar is the correct step for GW you'd only be half right. The real smart move for them would be to simplify the rules into a booklet about the size of a codex (which is totally possible), and take steps to reduce the cost of an army to start. The reason why GW has seen a loss in people joining the game is because the cost to start an army is roughly 300$ including the rules and army books, and they're targeting 12-17 years olds. GW see themselves as the rolex of plastic, and don't understand why customers aren't buying en masse.
I'm assuming you mean 40k because sigmar did all that...
For a long time a young would be player it was so difficult to continue playing 40k with a limited budget. I think Sigmar makes our wonderful world so much more accessible! Definitely a step in the right direction.
I totally agree, and hear from many new players who are getting into the hobby because of Age of Sigmar. Thanks for watching!
Forever angry.
I don't mind the rules changes or the marketing shift, that's all smart and good and I applaud the business move, but did they *have* to murder the entire goddamn world and invalidate thirty-some years of fluff in one go? It doesn't help that The End Times was a very unsatisfying scenario from a fan's perspective, but the bottom line is they burned away the entire setting and started fresh with something that at its core, isn't Warhammer any more.
Because it was needed to to introduce such a huge change! And DUH, of course this isn't warhammer anymore, to begin with it doesn't even figure in the title, go figure.
Really? Those rules wouldn't have worked for the troop choices and existing factions?
Oh, and it's called "Warhammer: Age of Sigmar" Soooooooo...
Gotchaed on that one, considering our meta unanimously says AoS (unlike the odd case of W40k being mentioned from time to time rather than just 40k.). Still it's not warhammer anymore. That place blew to kingdom come and civilization has bloomed.
No it would have not worked in the old setting.. It's not something just about the rules: the setting, the approach, and structure of the new miniatures. But let's go for the rules: do you think that they'd have tolerated those rules with such a strong connection still remaining to the old method? It's called burning the ships or sunken costs: they destroyed the Old World because they wanted to make the change permanent and after this there's no way back (which, make no mistakes, would have happened with the setting still intact).
Not sure we'll ever agree about that, since one of my local GW blokes recommended I should just use the rules to continue playing with what I already had to bulk up my forces before 'properly transitioning', and also apparently bits and pieces of the Old World still exist intact within Sigmar's new nightmare realm of nonsense (who knew the Big Sig was a chaos god?). That sounds awfully like not burning *all* the ships just in case to me, which is even more deplorable.
I guess my response here to GW's contempt for their existing Fantasy players is a polite "Well fuck you very nice, I'm taking my money elsewhere" I still have a copy of the old (real) Warhammer and cheap third-party minis/paint aren't hard to come by...
The only piece "intact" is mallus which is a huge ass asteroid made of remnants of the explosion resulting from the old world's death.
Sigmar isn't a chaos god, he's the avatar of Azyr and thus he's a god in that "realm" as everything can be shaped to his will there.
There's, truth be told, people who have inherited cultures of the Old World but this could be more seen as Sigmar being nostalgic and trying to recreate what was lost. Right now the setting is gone, almost everyone from there is gone, with only a few people and "remnants" (generally souls, 99.9999% of the time) having drifted around.
Well, good for you to have real Warhammer... Fantasy Battles. I won't force you to play the real Warhammer Age of Sigmar. Still think it was for the best.
you sold me..my place down the street is running this on Thursday nights..and like you said.if i dont have tons of extra cash but wanna get into a hobby this seems like it would do the trick..thanks for the video..needed something to validate checking it out
My main issues with AoS were the total lack of point balancing. I found the Sudden Death Objectives to be rather broken, if you have the ability to summon stuff. And the loss of Strength vs Toughness for determining wounds.
I liked all the things you mentioned in this video. Those were much needed. But they could have done so while keeping the good stuff.
They've thrown the Baby out with the Bathwater.
The General's Handbook did fix a lot of those issues though.
They would have gotten so much less hate from their loyal fans if they started with that.
Well thank you very much because I used to collect warhammer like 15 years ago and I am trhinking of starting again now. Your video has given me some light about this matter.
+Javier Dabbah Velázquez It's a very good time to get back in, frankly. Thanks for watching!
I think the bluster has only died down because those who were upset aren't talking about it anymore. (myself included)
I've played a good amount of 8th since, but I'm just tired of fighting about it. I understand a lot of the reasons to like AoS, but none of those are valuable for me. I'm just playing other games more often now.
+Shao Kahn Can you explain why you don't keep on playing WFB ? I genuinely don't understand.... And what are you fighting exactly ?
I do play wfb, I said that in my comment.
And perhaps fighting is the wrong word. My friends who enjoy AoS have been trying to "convert me", talking to me about the games merits ad nauseum. I am just not interested. I've given it a try on multiple occasions, and I'd rather keep on playing 8th. AoS is not the game for me, and it's replaced my game at all my local gaming spots.
+Shao Kahn
Is it the difference between a Skirmish game and a Rank-and-File war game that decreases your enjoyment of it? Is AoS thriving at your LGS's?
Paul Kelly It's a contributing factor. I have a wide variety of skirmish games I'd rather play. AoS is still popular at my local GW, but not at the other game stores.
The way you explain situations and ideas is very smart and easy to understand.. your real life example of a couple of young kids/teenagers trying to get into the hobby and then get shut down by the massive entry cost of rules books and the likes is EXCATLY RIGHT! this did and does happen in our hobby/industry.
I agree, and I think the industry is finally moving to fix it. Thanks for watching!
Thank you for the considerate and well-stated thoughts quite contrary to the Internet zeitgeist but quite in line with a reasonable assessment of the game. Applause for Uncle Atom, one of the most eloquent and thoughtful commentators on the miniatures gaming hobby!
+Ed Grzetich Wow! Thank you so much for your eloquent and thoughtful comment! I really appreciate it, and thanks for watching!
I agree with everything you just said, I'm a 32 yr old tabletop right player who has always been interested, but intimidated to get into war gaming. This past weekend I happened to walk into a warhammer store and the guy running the store got me interested enough into AOS that I made some purchases and am now in the process of learning everything. So far having a blast
My Stages of Immersion into Warhammer Age of Sigmar:
1) I decided to try it because I had a lot of old fantasy sets that I bought for 40k conversions
2) On round bases, this did not contradict my 40k collection.
3) at first I made models that could also be in 40k, but then I realized that there is more freedom in Mortal Realms than 40k - after all, each model can be given a taste of its own Realm.
4) Now I am specifically looking for more old fantasy miniatures to convert them to Age of Sigmar.
Think about it: millions of people have old Bretonnia, the same rows of the same model. And very few have Bretonnia on oval/round bases in a new fantastic setting. It's unique - it's better!!!
This is exactly the reason I have liked blood bowl so much - you did need the box but after that, you could get a team by buying a single box and pretty straightforward to play.
28 years old n just found out i got the weird gene
Welcome
i spent most of my childhood knowing i had the weird gene (sort of) and not being able to act on it till 25. (that was over a decade ago)
As someone who is returning to the hobby and is on a limited budget, and also primarily interested in collecting & painting AoS seems to be created just for me!
+Eoin O'Connell I would say that's exactly what they did. Thanks for watching!
It's not a weird gene, it's an awesome gene!
+Brian Hayne I like to think so, too. Thanks for watching!
I completely agree with you. It made me interested in starting an army. I started Bretonnians because of it.
Although they shut down a lot of the old miniature ranges. I sold my minis for almost twice the value!
Nice, good profit. Thanks for watching!
I buy and paint Age of Sigmar miniatures cause they are cool. The detal level is quite high even if i dont like some styles (like the simil ultra-marine...never liked 40k style). But i can understand the people that played warhammer fantasy for years and now have nothing left. Plus, the prices of miniatures are quite high compared to other companies (Avatars of War,Scibor etc...)
+lucioluciolucio85 They don't have nothing left, they can still play with their friends. It's just that they won't have anything new from now on. A lot of angry gamers forget about the fact that they can still play. Nobody forces them to play Aos if they don't want to. A lot of people always said that GW wants their money and that the hobby is too expensive, now they are free :D.
taithays
Indeed. Not a problem for me, i just collect cool miniatures so...
:)
+taithays I've embraced that as a positive of the move to AOS for warhammer fantasy. Now I can have an end point in sight for my massive horde of warriors of chaos collection! Locally we have a 9th age group starting up & kings of war have army lists for the old warhammer fantasy now.
+lucioluciolucio85 I thought scibor minis are super expensive. like $30 for one person
Blake Piercy
I saw some (like 10 dwarfs) for 30$. But i know that "heroes" are more expensive and the detail-level is amazing.
Great video. 20 year veteran and I agree!
I can still play 9thAge which is a community driven rule set for Warhammer Fantasy, with other fans of the big version of the game - now with better, evolving rules - but also can play AoS too, and meet new people and players - and collect any minis I want. The new ones look great... My 10 year old self would explode at the quality of mini's available now!
+Voltan Ignatio Yeah! I just picked up The Glottkin, and that model is amazing. It'll be a huge project to paint, but I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for watching!
In my area some people didn't like 8th edition , but it seems much more people don't like AOS.
Ture that, the local game store stopped stocking AOS because no wanted to buy it, now it's only 40k
I came into the hobby a few months after aos dropped, and it has fit my needs perfectly. I mostly want to paint what I want a maybe play a game sometimes. With the ease of entry, I have over the past 5 months bought books, audio books, just came home from a painting session with a friend and I am getting close to a couple of armies of variable sizes. I enjoy it immensely, and since I buy what I want, not what I need, it makes the painting a playing so fun. It's like different consoles (I come from a video gaming background); some want the ps4, some want a wii u. There are now wrong answers, just the right answer for you personally. If you make the right choice for you, great :)
+Marius Mikkelsen A completely reasonable response, excellent! Glad to hear you're getting into it, too. Thanks for watching!
As someone who just began getting into miniature war gaming, I do find AOS to be an easy and interesting game to play. The other editions seemed very complicated and I never understood the army books concept. Obviously, those who were accustomed to the earlier editions will find AOS to probably be too easy and unchallenging. But I figured that the new game was more for people like me who were just beginning. This was an excellently prepared video! It was Informative and really defended the other side of players. Well done Atom 👍love your videos btw!
+Ryan Gahman Thanks, I really appreciate it! I feel like I rarely actually prepare for these types of videos, so I'm glad it comes across as if I'm a prepared adult. Thanks for watching!
I've been a long time fantasy player also, since the beginning of my fifth edition. This latest roll out for Age of Sigmar has got me painting more than I have in years. There is something about the freedom of it all makes you want to put things together paint it and play. When we would play league games at the store I could see perspective players, or their parents, enthusiasm drain when we would explain what it would take to play. Now I can tell them all the boxes are there, anything they want to play is fine, they can put it together paint it how they like, and best of all the rules are free online and simple to learn. Great video.
+Thelnorn1 I have to admit, I've been painting a ton the last few months (not just for Age of Sigmar) but the Age of Sigmar stuff has been most on my mind. I'd like to bring a bunch of it to Adepticon and hopefully get some games in there. Thanks for watching!
There is one important part that is generally overlooked. New prices, a decent AOS bunch of minis is not that far away from whay 2400 points of fantasy used to be say a year ago (depending on the army of course)
+Lucas Perez Yes but they MINIMUM to get in is much lower. Before your talking BRB, 70, Army book, 50, Hero, 25, and at least two boxes of troops, 35. So your paying a minimum of 220 just to get started. Now the minimum could be you just want to do a 1v1 with someone else starting and they guy you like is 25. So compare 25 to a Minimum of 220, thats a LOT more appealing to others. Also you dont have specific points so while a box of Eternals might cost 50 its not like you have to have 2 of them just to start playing.
I know this is late but I've build a 113 wound army (with I think around 2k points for 8th ed) completely to my liking with £160. I have 40 infantry models (20 swords,10 crossbows, 10 greatswords). 6 single model units (3 wizards, warrior priest, witch hunter, general.) 3 Monster models (Demigryphs) and a character (volkmar on a war altar) and a Helblaster volley cannon. Considering this is a legacy army I'm saving about £120 on not buying the books.
Never had a chance do dive into fantasy before, I tried but never managed to finish a decent 'list' to actually play. So this was amazing news for me. At first I was skeptical about the sudden change. But I couldn't be happier, haven't painted and enjoyed warhammer this much since I was that 12 year old kid.
I will be brief: Everything you say is true. But if it's 4 pages of inkjet rules and the same models, why did it need to replace the old game?
Because when they are trying to revitalize something that loses them money, having to versions of a game confuses new players. No game or company would do this. People don't quite grasp how much fantasy was tanking. in the end there were reports of it comprising 5%!!!! of their revenue.
There's a lot more rules on the warscrolls and the models.
when I was 12 in 1992, my parents bought me Hero Quest because I thought it looked super cool. I loved it, barely found anyone who would play it with me, but didn't give a crap. I saw a small brochure inside for games workshop, which talked about WH Fantasy, 40k and Space Hulk which had just come out. I was hooked.
Mom bought me Fantasy (don't remember what edition). I painted the entire Elf and Goblin armies. I read the rulebook over and over, and the accompanying "battle bestiary." When we drove to Wichita away from our small town (which had no game shop), I got to go and buy a goblin rider buying a spider, some snotlings and even a catapult.
However, in the small KS town where I grew up, there weren't any other 12 year olds who wanted to do this. I never played one game with anyone. The years went by and now all I have left is a goblin archer or two. I would kill just to see the Battle Bestiary again!
So I still dig the crap out of the lore, even bought a few space marines to paint for fun, but still never got into it. Too expensive, don't know anyone who plays and not really wild about showing up at the local shop as a total noob. But I still LOVE the fluff. So I found this channel and a bunch of the lore channels and have been watching, and last night I heard about this new edition of Fantasy, if that's what you'd even call it. Hearing your take on it, it almost sounds to me like I can get back into it, and not give up all my discretionary income. I think it's a good thing.
+Me And My Shadow It's a really good thing, and I hope you do get back into it and start painting and playing again. Thanks for your story, and thanks for watching!
This video aged well. Watching in 2022 :)
For what it is worth, it has been a good move at my local store. Fantasy games were quite rare, but we have played regularly once or twice a week after the new rules came out. At first, it was just me and the store owner, but we have added two more players since then, and interest is growing.
What I loved right away was the fact that I could just put down all my models. I had a zombie dragon sitting in my closet for years that I finally dragged out and put together because I could finally field him without having to play a 3,000 point 7-hour game. The same goes for starting new armies and adding units. The new Iron Jawz look amazing, and I love that I can just buy 2-3 boxes of stuff and I'm ready to play with them, either by themselves or as an add-on unit to one of my other armies.
I do miss the old lore. I would of rather had the Old World be a post-apocalyptic wasteland rather than just completely blow it up. But, I can still play the old armies in the Old World, nothing is stopping me. I also miss certain elements, like perils of the warp, flaking attacks, routing units, and I still use movement trays! But overall, I love AoS.
+moes80 I kind of consider Age of Sigmar to be post-apocalyptic. Just not in a Mad Max kind of way. Thanks for watching!
I wanted to get into the hobby for years but the cost and rulebook scared me...
The AoS starter set came out and I figured: why not? So the last few months I have been painting a lot (the main reason I wanted to get into it really) and having a lot of fun doing that.
I have very few friends who play miniature games but a lot who really are into board games.
AoS is the perfect way for me to bring a bunch of models (2 reasonably balanced armies) and let my opponent choose his and have a fantastic afternoon of gaming.
Same thing with the Betrayal at Calth box, finished painting that, haven't got around to playing it yet but it's a game that is easy enough to explain to a new player and have a blast.
+drappke Getting new players into wargames is great when you can bring models for both sides, which is why smaller skirmish games are so great. Thanks for watching!
I'm writing from Italy. I could be wrong, but I think that Whfb was always more popular in Europe than it was in the US. Back in the days, in your average miniature store, Fantasy and 40k were maybe 50/50, and most of the times Fantasy was the bigger one, with 40K being the niche game. I remember I was very surprised when, on online forums, I discovered that on the other side of the ocean the situation was waay different, and that actually WHFB was a minor percentage of GW sales. We had a urban legend in the community (don't know if it's true) that if you put together all the money GW earned from Fantasy, it would still be lower than what GW earned from Space Marines alone!
Anyway, back to my point, what I wanted to say is that the death of WHFB was a HUGE blow for the boardgaming community here. GW handled it extremely poorly, both economically (ah, all those people who spent hundreds of € buying End Times books..) and in a PR way. People were so fed up and angry that many simply abandoned the hobby, or started new games, like X Wings or Kings of War. Ten years ago, if you entered in a (non GW) miniature shop, 99% of the minis were Citadel miniatures, and you could see people playing GW games in every table around you, now GW games have disappeared, or if they still resists, they're the minority. It's either X wing, flames of war, kings of war, there's so much more diversity and that's a good thing for sure (I mean, before it was either Fantasy or 40k,nothing else) but GW totally lost the leadership position they used to have. I hope the Aos strategy is paying in the US, because here, in the Old World, afaik it was a huge "hole in the water" as we say here.
My problem with Age of Sigmar is actually fairly simple. I LOVE the look of the models, especially the new models. I was never into old fantasy because there were no players in my area, although I wish I had been at this point. my biggest gripe is that they bill the game as a beer and pretzels type of game, with a very limited rule set and a pretty flexible format. But here is the big problem. it is NOT a beer and pretzels type of game for the cost. My store offers at 10% discount on all GW products but i still see boxes of 5 models going for 70 dollars. The big monster minis like a big greater demon or Carnosaur can run you easily over 120 dollars for just 1 model. While there is nothing in the rules saying you can't play with just 1 model I have to point out, that is lame. You want to play with a large army, and get some model diversity but that will run you a few hundred dollars. Compare that to Warmachine, where for the same amount of money you could invest in a super solid game, with very well done rules and a very active and competitive environment and with actual support from the parent company. To me it is a no brainer.
An updated "Battlemasters" is the answer. At 10 or 11 that was my unwitting intro into Warhammer Fantasy. You got ~100 GW plastic fantasy dudes on sale for like $20 at ToysR Us (including a bunch of Goat Men) For a while those were the coolest things in my little universe. I was mind blown to discover the same universe on a much grander scale existed in hobby shops, or if you were really lucky, GW stores that dotted the landscape like 7/11's in more refined countries.
Age of sigmar and it's low barrier of entry is why I'm coming to play. New players are popping up everywhere. before it was a couple of grumbly dudes in the back with buckets and boxes of models, but now is fresh and vibrant. My few models go a long way and I can pull out my 5 extra formations of models and drastically change the composition of my army every game. Also, these new simple rules means i'm not constantly getting blind sided by BS rules every turn.. every game. it's fun.
I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it. Thanks for watching!
Sounds about right to me, although I don't play Fantacy
I agree! I was never into fantasy before AoS. I actually used AoS as a jumping on point to start a Lizardmen army. Unfortunately, the AoS and Fantasy scene in my area isn't all that big.
So, I work with a guy who had me play X-wing with him and I enjoyed it. I was always a nonbeliever as an adult but always thought the miniatures looked cool. But, I'm a gamer at heart. I play WoW and love fantasy and need something else to fill my time. I came across Age of Sigmar as I was trying to find the end of the internet and it grabbed me. Fast forward two weeks and I've subscribed to your channel, Miniwargaming and Wargaming Girl. I bought my first stormcast eternal Liberator on ebay and am trying to find cheap paint to see if I like this experience. I pour over the free warscroll app reading up on these cool warriors. I think your salient discussion is exactly what drew me to this genre of gaming. I AM NOT spending $700 on an army. But, I might be able to stomach spending ~100ish (to get it past the sniff test of my wife) to try this hobby. Great show. I look forward to watching more.
+nasty33 I think it's a great hobby, even if you don't play. It's probably even a bit cheaper if you don't play, as you can then pick and choose what you want to paint rather than something you might 'need' for your army. Thanks for watching!
Age of sigmar killed fantasy in my area.
+newhoped So people stopped playing because of Age of Sigmar? Did their 8th Edition rule books suddenly burst into flames or all the words fall off the pages?
Banhammer72
No interest in age of sigmar and knowing old style fantasy isn't going to supported anymore, they moved on simple as that.
Or supported by the player who claim to prefer it over AoS it seems!
Our store ran one league and had to stop since everyone hated it so much. The rules make for a shoddy skirmish game at best, so people just moved on to something else.
+newhoped Same happened in my area. Some of the new sigmar boxes sold, but only because people were using the models for conversions or too have them sit on a shelf. Some people were trying to organize games and possibly a league, but they found the game was completely incapable of balanced play hence killing peoples enthusiasm for anything, but a few one offs every month or so. Fact is Age of Sigmar can't support leagues, tournaments or even campaigns hell it feels more like a board game then a minitures game. A decent board game, but nothing I would waste more then a hour or so on a week.
I am from post soviet Europe. When I was 12, I had a summer job. I worked a lot and I spent what I earned on 3 sets of core units (Silver Helms if I remember correctly). After that GW moved that unit from core to special. I painted them, but I never played any game and I never collected the whole army.
I fully agree with your opinion. Now, when I am a bit older, maybe I could effort two Warhammer Fantasy armies to play a casual game with my growing son... instead of going on holiday together. With W:AoS it is much simpler to start and we will do that when he will be in the proper age.
I'm very glad you'll be teaching the next generation. Thanks for watching!
Age of Sigmar positives:
- Great models
- Nice prices
- Good for tabletop and the game
Age of Sigmar Negatives:
- It killed Fantasy
- Mediocre to bad lore? (Is improving)
A great video. As someone who has worked part-time in a GW store in my past, you're describing a problem we encountered frequently. Those youngsters with the one or two boxes they can afford with their combined pocket money. And then you tell them they need paints. And a rule book. And an Army Book. And you see their smile fading because they realize they don't have that money.
The same with older costumers who are curious and would like to do a little project just to see if it's for them. Just a small army. But unless they wanted to play High Elves or Skaven no chance. They heard the price and that was it. They calculated what else they could buy for that price.
More often than not that potential new wargamer turned around and put the boxes back on the shelves. Both sides disappointed. Because neither got what they wanted.
The interesting thing is, Codexes/Army Books/Battle Tomes still sell. No matter if you can download a black&white sheet online. It's the story, the artworks and the feeling of a book in your hand that people are willing to pay for. But for those that can't afford both the book and the miniatures... well, just print them out/take the rules out of the box.
But as always, GW has no idea how to treat its costumerbase. The smart move would have been to draw the development out. Update Skaven/Beastmen/Bretonia Army books and give a few models. Then announce End Times. Use ET to merge armies (just as they did): Death, Destruction, Chaos, Order (Eternity Elves, Grand Alliance (Dwarves/Empire/Bretonia), Lizardmen). They could have drastically reduced boxes and partially prices needed for basic games while providing additional upgrade sets to create your army in the old style (making it more expensive overall in that case).
If GW had kept WHFB as a general system in combination with AoS and made the pdf for all the rules accessible via their home page there would have been much less of an outcry.
I totally agree! I was completely intigued by the whole idea of painting my own models by hand before using them in tiny battles with other people, but I didn't feel like learning the rules to a complicated game. Then, when I walked into Games Workshop one time just to browse and see what the games looked like etc... I fell in love with Age of Sigmar (I have always been into Fantasy). However, I still did not fancy a heavy book just about the rules. Then, when the man who was working at the store handed me a four-page booklet of rules, I was completely surprised and ended up walking out of the store with all of the essential tools, some models (although only three small goblin-type creatures) and some paint. Therefore, I think that this version of the game is, as you said, the perfect strategy for GW to bring in multiple younger and/or new customers!!
It's true, and I'm glad to hear it's working. Thanks for watching!
Thank YOU for making videos that I actually enjoy watching all the way through!
;)
I completely agree.
it was actually the rules simplicity that really got me.
I love to glue my little dudes together and give them an awesome paint and practice different skills with painting, texturing and weathering. but the rules were always intimidating. I have truck loaded of awesome 40k still in there boxes because I need to find someone to show me those baby steps of rules to get me into the game. as a result my 40k stuff is unpainted.
when age of Sigmar came out. 4 pages of rules, boom starter box bought clipped and painted. I know people seam to hate on the SigMarines but I think they are awesome. The added plus, because the models a on the large side they are really easy to paint up and look really cool really quickly.
awesome idea of them to attempt to revive an entry point game.
my only complaint would go back to GW prices. but I do like what they are doing with the new faction specific starter sets. can't wait to see more :-)
happy gaming
thanks for the cool and inspirational channel
+David Brian The 'Get Started' boxes aren't very different from their Battalion boxes of old, they've just gotten a bit smarter with their marketing and called them 'Get Started' boxes. It helps to draw in new players, hopefully. Thanks for watching!
At first sorry for my english? its not my native. I think make a mistake. As you said cost to play WhFB(in my country at least) was preaty high, but why destroy old grim FB and create fairy tale of Sigmar? WhFB was about playing armies, they can create free WhFB skirmish rules for 5-10 models based on main rules. So any one can buy box of orks and play with friend who bought box of rats. And there were a lot less problem with comunity.
I played wargames earlier(before wh) miniatures was ugly rules are too simple(warrior with sword in fullplate have same stats as warrior in mail with axe) i liked to write some stories about it. When i first came to local miniatures shop i liked both WhFB and 40k worlds and miniatures. I whanted to buy and play High Elves and Eldar, but i was a student at that time. But when i finally got some free money they destroyed WhFB. FB was cool it can be any thing from simple good-evil wars to some grey situations(good vs good). But AoS looks like a fairy tale(yes miniatures is cool not all but cool). I have no interest in AoS lore. If i buy some miniatures from AoS onely to plase it on rack(cabinet i mean). And now i wont buy 40k, im afraid that all ends with another AoS.
GW make a mistake.
I like Age of Sigmar as it has allowed me to create a Chaos army filled with pretty much anything I like, lack of a structure might be bad for a game, but for collecting I find it heaven.
+Captain0Rex Same here, and my Warriors of Chaos / Nurgle / Beastmen / Skaven army thinks so, too. Thanks for watching!
So here's the thing, I'm a Warhammer player for the last four editions and I would have jumped on the AoS band wagon without a second thought if it had been the following:
a) A Historical Setting (play during the ACTUAL Age of Sigmar - you know before the Empire was formed)
b) A full blown skirmish game in the Warhammer World - Mordheim Warbands all grown up
c) Still allowed you to rank up those skirmishers into ranks using an alternative system (i.e. modified version of the current rules)
But no, the world got blown up and they flipped me the bird and said "we're done with world you've loved for the past 15+ years, accept the new or GTFO."
It's true: they didn't seem to think much about the PR of the change and how it would effect the current player base. Thanks for watching!
+Tabletop Minions I feel like this should not be a surprise to anyone. GW has built a business on screwing their customers over. Hey....were going to release an "expansion" to the rules. Please buy everything you will need for this new ruleset....because we are going to cancel the entire game in a few months...
I agree with this. As many said below (I didn't read all 500+ comments), Fantasy was dead in my area for a long time. The local shops mostly stocked 40k and if you wanted any Fantasy beyond a new release they had to order it (we didn't have a GW store until a year ago). I don't play competitively or in pick up games at stores. My friends all have armies and my house is game central because I've got a dedicated game room. Despite that, I don't think we'd played a game of fantasy since sixth edition. However, when Age of Sigmar came out, we drug stuff out to try it and had such a good time we played it again. We made a few common sense tweaks to the rules to make it seem more like the game we remembered (you can't fire missile weapons if you are in close combat) and now play fairly regularly and people are building new armies.
By the way, in our games, the Old World is intact. We didn't want to use Bretonnians in space. We are all building small new armies to embrace the new multiverse.
+Clarence Harrison There's nothing wrong with any of that. As long as you're having fun, keep doing it. Thanks for watching!
currently trying to get into wargaming, this convinced me AoS is worth it, especially now with the generals handbook. thanks!
+Trevor Brinkhoff Glad you're getting into it. Have fun, and thanks for watching!
I've gone and bought Storm of Sigmar and the citadel essentials kit. Great only £40 to experience the new rules after 12 years of not playing Fantasy or 40k. And guess what, now I'm hooked again.
the shorter rules sure need some more depth, in the form of expansions or at least a better army points system. But besides that huge improvement. Much easier to access and do whilst having a busy work rota.
I think a few friends are buying in to it thanks to Sigmar too.
Making the game more accessible? Great. But despite their simplicity some of the rules are bad and they destroyed the fluff for no good reason. That's why the fans are angry.
Thank you so much for this. You may have finished changing my viewpoint. I was never a hardcore collector, I just love painting and never bothered to get into actually playing. But my big issue is the lore changes, but maybe I just need to dig deeper. Maybe I can find a slice in the lore that I like still. The new minis look cool, though the new irks do look like space marine orks to me still. I really wanna try painting a few of em.
Some of those new Ork models are really amazing. Thanks for watching!
I just recently got into the hobby and I'm loving it. Grabbed a start collecting set for Stormcast Eternals for like 80 bucks which came with quite a few guys. Once I played my first game I snagged a starter kit on sale for 90 from my local shop and now I have quite the army and I'm loving it. Found a lot of newer players as well and we are all having a great time.
Glad to hear you're getting into the hobby. Thanks for watching!
This is what put me off warhammer as a kid because it was too expensive and always sounded too complicated for me. But with AoS I've been able just to jump straight into it (also helps I'm a grown ass man with my own money now)
Dude, your voice is a smooth as the butter on my morning toast!!!
+PrettyWide I've gotten compliments on my voice many time, but never quite like that. Thanks for watching!
I was into Warhammer Fantasy a long time ago, but I was one of those who just didn't manage to stay into it due to no one else near me playing it and just not being able to afford it...
Then my wife found some of my old stuff, and she talked me into getting back into it with her. She's got a nice Stormcast army ( Bought her around 300 bucks worth of troops last Christmas ) and I've got myself a small Chaos army. Blood for the blood God!
If it weren't for the changes with Age of Sigmar, we probably wouldn't be in it at all.
+Samsaccountwithaname I've heard stuff like this a lot. I need to finish my second army so my wife and I can play. She likes board games and video games, but I think she'd enjoy AoS as well if she didn't have to paint and build. She loves to knit, maybe she can make Glottkin a little sweater. Thanks for watching!
The points you raise are good and i agree with you that it made business sense for GW to do age of sigmar,however i still feel GW could have kept WHFB alive as a separate game within the same world,all GW had to do was make a simple skirmish set of rules in the WHFB old world,and kept WHFB as a scaled up version of the game.
But i suppose the suits wanted a complete re-branding of the setting so that why we ended up with age of sigmar.I do miss the Lore and appeal of the old world be nice if GW do something with it again even if its warmaster again id be happy with that.
+Conan the Barbarian Problem is then they are adding to costs and not replacing. If you simply put AoS as an alternative then your still paying to make Fantasy and its only make 17% of your profits. This wasnt a situation of "how can we boost Fantasy sales" it was "Fantasy either has to go or we have to DRASTICALLY increase sales".
I think that this is a great thing. I am relatively new to the warhammer community, and I am building a small Dark Angels army to start. But the only reason I am building Dark Angels is because that is what came in the Dark Vengeance box set, so I could get the rules, models, and other excessories for super cheap. The main thing that keeps me from going into another army is the cost of the rulebooks. If I could have a simple, free pdf for all of the rules, and a free codex sheet I would have built a Blood angels army instead.
+TheMuffinMan328 Several wargaming companies are starting to release a free version of their rules via PDF. If you want all the fluff and hobby stuff, you usually need to buy the physical book, but you can start playing without it. I'm quite sure it's selling more miniatures. Thanks for watching!
They should have simply made a new edition of Warhammer that was simplified much like AoS, but also made an "Apocalypse"-style expansion so that when people amassed enough miniatures they would organize their force into regiments and play just like old Warhammer. Everybody would've won (no silly new background lore).
+James Gordley They seemed set on switching everything to round bases, so I'm not sure how well that would have worked. Interesting idea, though. Thanks for watching!
+Tabletop Minions
Well, they did gave us ranks of Uruk-Hai pikemen and whatnot in LotR (which was all on round bases, and covered battles of every size). The biggest problem I can think of is making bigger movement trays for slightly looser formations (due to the width of round bases), and telling the WH vets how spaced out their old square-based models should be if they're playing against a newer player. But how inconvenient is that, in comparison to having the whole thing wiped out? :)
Personally I love Age of Sigmar, it's revitalised Warhammer Fantasy in my area. Not to mention that it's brilliantly designed in that it's perfectly balanced in terms of armies, no one army is more powerful than another because *everyone's* OP. And to paraphrase The Incredibles, when everyone's OP, no one's OP.
+Bainbow That's a good point about everyone being OP. I know a lot of Fantasy players who looked at the warscrolls and said, "Wow, [crappy unit name goes here] doesn't suck any more. That's kinda cool!" I suspect it was part of GW's plan. Thanks for watching!
Please, bring back the Empire and Franz or I will cry :'(
Wait, Franz is going to cry? He doesn't seem the type. Thanks for watching!
I have this crazy theory that the Celestant-Prime is Franz.
+Tabletop Minions I'm sure it will something like
- Oh Karl Franz, where did you go?
- I just came back from somewehrearoundtheoldworld.
- Oh! And you are alone?
- I have a 3 millions of men behind me.
- Oh god...
To me, I think the best move would have been somewhere between what they had with fantasy and what they did with AoS. Having that easily accessed entry point that AoS provides is a brilliant move, but the massive shift away from the ranked up troops and fluff that the fantasy vets had fallen in love with pushed a lot of those players away. Finding a middle ground for that would have likely made the game explode with a new popularity. Vets being able to introduce new people to the game with a lower entry point would have been fantastic, I remember seeing lots of people come up to our tables at the game shop and be fascinated by what they saw, but as soon as that initial sticker shock of just the rule books hit, they walked away with nothing. Scrapping the entire old world for this new setting and totally altered rule set instantly alienated quite a few of those veteran players, and for those of us that loved the game for those blocks of ranked troops and the massive army feel of it all find no interest in the game that was presented to us in place of the one we had loved. This seems to all be par for the course with GW anymore, make one brilliant move while simultaneously shooting itself in the foot. There could have been a great revamp of fantasy that was both new player friendly and veteran friendly, but they decided to risk losing those vets and just focus on the new blood. If this pays off for them in the long run, then good on them, but I think we would have seen an instant boom in popularity for this thing if they had opted to work harder on getting the fantasy player base on board with what they were doing right off the bat.
If you wish to dive into a fantasy setting, you should give Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings a try. It's really great and Para-bellum are producing a ton of minis !
I love this point of view. Its so true. I want as many people playing miniature games as possible and Age of Sigmar is going to so that. People hate change and they fear that 40k is going the same route but it NEVER will
+josh mack I agree. I'd be pretty surprised if GW gave 40k the same treatment, no matter how many people online say they will. Thanks for watching!
See I got into Fantasy via Mordheim, and I am still into Mordheim, I love that game. The slow death of Mordheim always irked me and though its not a dead game per se, trying to get a game of it is nigh on impossible. I eventually upgraded to a full WFB army and then got a few games in and just as I was getting into it the End Times happened and the Old World got smushed and Age of Sigmar was spawned.
What irks me about AOS is the horrible way that GW killed the old world, that NEVER needed to happen. The massive over simplification and mockery of long term players that occured with the "updated" army rules. I also utterly detest the rampant and heavy handed copyrighting/trademarking of everything now i.e, its not a Dragon its a Magmaroth or its not an Orc its and Orruk, it feels like GW saying "if you aren't using our stuff you are against us."
I think what I'm saying is that I can be OK with the game itself and GW still make some great minis (though the amount of Zbrush sculpts over traditional sculpted models is starting to push me away but thats another matter.) but I hate, hate, hate how they handled the transition from Old World to the Sigmarverse.
Oh and yeah this stuff is still freakishly expensive.... I really need to try Frostgrave.
Yep, everything You said it's true. Im 34 years old, Im father of 6 kids. Our adventure with figure games from gw starts with Blood Bowl. I think about something new from warhammer and Age Of Sigmar is the best point for someone like me.
Start 'em young. Thanks for watching!
ok while Your Argument is a Good one
I Would like to Counter with this.
Why did they have to Kill Fantasy to do it, they could have put some effort into a skirmish version of fantasy or even a bridge game of fantasy into 40K that was skirmish based
or even a re-release of Mordheim (skirmish version of Fantasy from 6th ED) where the most models any player Needs to have is 20 and that is only if you play Skaven or Orcs and Goblins (there might be other warbands to idk) but for most the warbands the model cap is 15
but as it stands they completely discontinued and killed off an entire game in their effort
+Isaac Hudzinski "Why did they have to Kill Fantasy to do it"
That's absolutely my main point of contention. Make a new game! Make a new IP! Is GW THAT creatively bankrupt?
I totally agree with what you said about the 12 year old going to the local game shop and seeing those awesome figurines sounded like you told the story straight from my childhood
I'm really really pleased with AOS. As a casual, it's the first ruleset I can understand and play smoothly.
It's really a great move for GW as a company, I agree. Thanks for watching!
I have played WFB for about 25 years (since 3rd ed.) and honestly although I miss GW's support of the old world I still play it with friends. No one told me I can't still play WFB. I also play AoS with some young relatives of mine who were scared away of WFB's model counts and costs, so to make a short story long you hit the nail on the head! Great video!
+Dan Van Duyn Thanks, I'm glad to hear you're fighting the good fight and getting the younger generation involved. Thanks for watching!
hey man, thanks so much for making this video. many great points and I've been enjoying the game this whole time I'm glad other people are at least checking it out.
I'm glad you're enjoying it. Thanks for watching!
Thumbed up immediately after opening line. Too good.
Glad to hear it. Thanks for watching!
The 9th AGE
I’m 25 and my gf is 22 and we just started playing AoS because of how easy it was to start. We love it so far
another nice thing about Age of Sigmar, at least in my experience, is that it really stimulates players to get creative with converting/kit-bashing models. I play savage orcs/orks/orruks and I actually started playing after I had already build a decent army. The only problem was, that I had converted most of my models to dual wield spears, or to make their arms wave around even more etc, which made it a hellish job to fit them into a movement tray. However, now with age of sigmar, I am not restricted to square units (which imho does not make any sense at all for a race that presumably consists of war-monging gorillas who don't even have the patience to care for their weapons properly), and I can freely move my boyz around as much as I want. There are also other people at my local gw who, because of the whole "measure from the model and not the base rule", try to convert their models so that they can e.g. reach more enemies when they pile in, or are harder to reach because of the base. Which in these cases results in awesome looking models.
+Henrik De Wolf Yes, I'm enjoying the fact that my figures don't have to fit into specific blocks anymore, it gives me more modeling freedom. Thanks for watching!
Dear uncle atom,I've recently invested in the small AoS starter kit "storm of sigma" after almost ten years from stopping playing 40k. I was wondering does AoS have the freedom that 40k offered I.e. invented pretty the much what you want chapter/heroes etc. I've spent a lot of time to research (for free admittedly) but everything seems very set in stone. Other than the odd post on instagram I rarely see a stormcast army that isn't ultramarine (my apologises blue and gold). Adding to this the models seem very set, I'm struggling to find a hero who is almost a blank sheet to build on for example a space marine captain (the name may have changed...) was pretty much an open book to build as you saw fit. I've watched many of your videos and heard how you suggest this is a gateway game to 40k.I understand due to the basic game being free its unreasonable of me to expect the depth that 40k offered, however I would like to atleast construct my army/heroes/warscolls as I choose. What are you thoughts? Is there possibility to play storm cast not loyal to sigmar? I apologise if my comment appears stupid, I've be out of the "fluff" of war games a while. I really enjoy your videos, building my enthusiasm enough to make a return!Kind regardsConnor
You can paint them however you want. In fact, the hardcover original Age of Sigmar book shows tons of different paint schemes for the Stormcasts. Thanks for watching!
I agree that AoS is fantastic for new people getting into the hobby. 12 year old me would have loved AoS since he could have started gaming right away. Although, for Warhammer fantasy I just played very small games of warhammer fantasy and had a blast. When Warhammer Skirmish rules came out I used that to get several of my friends into the hobby.
I'll probably start looking at AoS again if they ever come out some semblance of warband structure.
Where AoS begins to fall short is once you have the beginnings of an army. Soon those friends will start arguing over what is fair or not. AoS is incredibly hard to play pick up games since you have to have an hour pre-conference discussion about the type of game your looking for, comp, comp rule set, etc.
I would argue that no average 10-12 year old (anyone without a trust fund) can afford to even get into AoS. GW prices are more aimed at those in their late 20s and up (preferably those without children for more disposable income).
The other part that still sucks is the complete destruction of the old world. I could care less for this new one. I'm not drawn in at all, all I see is protecting IP this and protecting IP that.
Age of Sigmar didn't kill Fantasy in my area. Fantasy killed Fantasy. The player base had acquired all they wanted and were only added the occasional purchase to their collection. Fantasy battle was utterly stagnant the price point (thanks to GW) for entry was insane. The lore - despite being a major obsession - was middling at best. Worst of all whole armies were non-viable due to this or that minor tweak to the rules. The cavalry nerf ruined Bretonnia for example. One edition spears were the way to go then it was pole arms. That hurt Fantasy a lot because it was such a transparent way to force people to buy new models.
They really needed to redo the rules but they didn't stop there. The setting was the strongest element of the game but they chose to completely destroy it and I think that's what hurt them the most.
The second most destructive thing was the presentation of the Sigmar rules. It looked like quick start rules so a lot of people felt cheated. It turned out the war scrolls was were a lot of the rules were. GW didn't convey that to the customer base very well and that lead to a lot of people feeling cheated.
+Dan Morgan Games Workshop is terrible at PR. Has been for years. I'm astounded at how an organization that big can stink at PR and marketing that much. Think of how amazing they'd be right now if they were actually good at PR and marketing. Thanks for watching!
Tabletop Minions I don't directly follow GW as I don't play their games. I do talk with a lot of gamers who do. One little nugget a friend told me about was how GW doesn't do market research. If this is true it means they have no idea what is going on with their customer base or even who really makes up their customer base. That is just asking for trouble.
+Dan Morgan I swear they did a survey a few years back, but generally, no - they don't seem to do market research. They don't interact with their customers much at all. Thanks for watching!
ehhh, the world was generic in the end and writing killed most of the great characters. AoS world is.... weird. But in the end, it's just a fantasy world where instead of a bridge to another country, it's a portal. Simple way to look at it.
Chris Grabenhorst That is true. The setting wasn't great but it was the games best element. The wargame RPG did some interesting things with the setting and some of it had good atmosphere. Compared to the rules themselves the setting was great.
Published by Osprey. They have produced a range of wargames rules books. Good old fashioned wargaming. No supporting ranges of miniatures supplements etc etc just a book. About £12 in the UK.
Let the tide of anger and rage flow in...
I must be in that odd minority of "veteran" Fantasy players who actually don't mind these changes. I think the fact that they made it into a system where you can choose what scale of game (i.e. skirmish, full on huge army, etc.) is probably one of the best things they could have done for the system. That old cost prohibitive entry barrier was one of the most cited reasons people wouldn't get into Fantasy and I can't say that I blame them; even the "starter army boxes" were borderline false advertising since it you didn't nearly enough of the unit types and it was highly unlikely you were going to find someone who was willing to play that small of a point count game. If you were lucky enough, those boxes were still ridiculously priced for what little you got in them and you *still* needed that huge rules book to play.
The new four page, streamlined rules have just enough complexity in them to make for interesting games even with a small warband. Combine that with the fact that you can download them for free, along with the war scrolls for old models, and what you've got is a move that should have been appealing to players, if most of us weren't so fearful and resentful of any sort of change to a game/system we like. I'm not saying all new editions of games are great (D & D 4th ed. a.k.a. the tabletop mmo) and that gamers are all stubborn curmudgeons, but we do have a track record of being catastrophically resistant to the very idea of changing anything about our favorite franchises.
+TheRunesmythe Yes, the barrier to entry has gotten *much* smaller with Age of Sigmar, and I really think that was their main goal, for once. And true, they had to expect resistance, but it does seem like the hullabaloo has started to die down. Thanks for watching!
this is so true. Just a week ago, I heard some people on the train talking about Warhammer, an dme being bored went and looked it up on my smartphone. And I saw the Age Of Sigmar stuff, and I was just like: I want this.
Should be getting my first figures in the mail tomorrow.
Nice! I'm glad to hear you're getting involved. Thanks for watching!
All of this is flawed from the one simple fact, that they killed Fantasy to make this joke of a table top war game. Nobody wanted fantasy gone, they wanted it fixed from the "BUY ALL OF THE MODELS" rules that had been introduced in the recent editions. Of course nobody new was going to get into the game when it was twice as expensive as 40K and had become a jumbled mess with its newest rules.
All they needed to do was sit and think for a bit rather than have this sudden culling of an entire fantasy world so that they could trade mark some of the most cringe worthy names within any fantasy genre to date.
Not to mention how they completely pulled the rug on all the fantasy players who finally thought they were getting support for the game again only to find it being turned into "Fantasy the space marine-ing". Maybe if they had made it into an entirely different line for new comers to try out it wouldnt be so bad but i guess its too late for that.