Harman Kardon is really paying attention when they're doing these cars systems, whether other cars sound like dogshit... they literally just have HK badge on them and that's it.
Well I'm not him but I have. It's better than the old 590w Surround Burmester. Better balancing on the bass note than with the old command system. But the Burmester 3D High-End was different.
Not yet, but I just did the CLE. Coming next weekend, but spoiler alert, it's the least expensive S tier I've tested (not as tested, but theoretically configurable).
its called Bang&Olufsen with proper door insulation and decimated speaker cabinets for resonance control and 2k watts. efficiency? what's that. nope. stiff speakers, kevlar mids, carbon woofers, and endless power
I've tested it too in the i4. In my opinion an A+ tier system, S seems a bit of a far reach compared to some other of the category. Especially at louder volumes it lacks behind the other "s tier" rated systems. But everyone has its own preference :) Certainly a lot better than most other h/k bimmers, I'd be satisfied with this, but not with the G80 M3 stereo
I do agree with you. Part of the rating factors in the price and overall usability and tunability of the system. Yeah a Volvo S60 might sound better, but it doesn't have as good of an interface or as many EQ adjustments. So I think BMW and Harman deserve credit. S- tier
If you used acoustic music (particularly drums and guitar) to do these demos we might have half a chance of hearing the soundstage capabilities of these systems.
I have an M340i LCI, the HK is poor. The speakers especially are so harsh, tinny, and tiring to listen to. I changed them out for Morels which improved it a lot, but the amp itself is still weak. The I4 is clearly better as it has the larger speakers in the lower front doors instead of just tweeter and mids, so the lower frequency range is much better catered too. Also having that proper sub in the trunk.
problem with the "regular" bmws is that bmw, since ever, has had the woofers mounted under the seats. In my opinion, it's a dumb way to do sound systems in cars. Human voices can get as low as woofers need to reproduce them, now how will the frequency travel through my butt, lol. It just happens that some of the best factory systems always have had door woofers and an external sub for optimum acoustics
@@v12-s65 Underseat midbass is actually much better than doors. They don't suffer from the common 70 and 150Hz room modes and provide a less resonant mounting...something vital to speaker performance. The issues with previous Harman systems lie with: 1. power 2. tuning 3. speaker choice. The passband of an underseat woofer is low enough to pass through the seat fine, The worse speaker location is the door midrange, which plays frequencies altered by your knees/pants. Also, these past systems did not have a subwoofer, meaning the underseat was expected to handle below 60Hz...that just doesn't work. The speaker will struggle, and distortion will rise. Also, if the speaker is cheap, lacks power, or has significant distortion (itself, or in the processing chain) the system will sound poor. In the past, sound systems were less of a draw for vehicles. As prices increase, and standard brands (Honda, Mazda, Toyota) provide more competitive options, luxury manufacturers are forced to spend more on sound systems. They provide Harman a larger working budget, meaning: - speakers that cost more than a dollar to make, - more input on speaker location (like Mazda with Bose in the latest 3), - better damping materials and absorbers to reduce panel resonance, - and most importantly, more seat time.
@@mouthies3 why does bowers and wilkins do such an amazing job with door woofers? I‘m sorry I just can‘t share the same experience even though they are supposed to be „better“. The speakers are fair enough of quality.. it‘s mainly a tuning issue and it misses a real sub, better placement. My old Meridian in the L405 was a superb sound system with door woofers and the mid ranges were paper cones, not the kevlar ones. The sub was located in the floor, but it had its own box, not integrated into the chassis. With a budget they made it sound very pretty. The woofers from h/k are supposedly capable from as low as 20hz. Same with my burmester surround. Bass still rubbish
@@v12-s65 No worries! We all have different experience and references when it comes to audio. Especially car audio considering the amount of variables involved. To comment on the Bowers and Wilkins, we have to first quantify what "amazing job" means here. To me, an amazing job means the vehicle can compete in EMMA and achieve reasonable scores without modification. To my knowledge, no OEM has been able to do so. There are vehicles that may replace OEM speakers then add their own amplification, tuning, and source which do fairly well. However, these systems tend to come with great factory locations (e.g. Mercedes firewall midbass), and great tuners. Some manufacturers can do doors well, like Audi in the previous a6. They utilized inject molded ported boxes that when damped, significantly reduced door resonance, allowing the sound (vibration) to come from the transducer and not the door internals, shell, and card. Regarding your L405, I'm sure it sounded great, but that is mainly due to system cohesion (perhaps some rose-tinted glasses too). If you mute all other speakers, the doors will reveal all of the uncontrolled sound they tend to always produce. Also, paper or kevlar...some of the best speakers in the world are paper, it really isn't as simple as cone material. Lastly, the woofers do not play to 20Hz. That's either marketing magic, or a fib. In a built SQ system, the underseat woofers (with enough breathing space) should play LR24 60-150Hz and the midranges in the doors must be able to play low enough to blend. With a sub that is in time and phase with those woofers (most important to me), you'd have a system that can blow most if not all OEMs out of the water.
Ouch 17 speaker system that sound so bad? I use expensive headphones and dac. So unless youtube video sound is too compressed this sound system is very average. Even Bose sound as good
Strange that you brag about the sound system in this car, when several hundred who actually own such a car complain about the sound. Especially the lack of deep bass. The door basses only play mid-bass, and the rear case only contains an under-seat bass element. It plays so weakly that if you turn it off, you won't hear any difference.
Not really a comment about music or sound. But that screen. Man, that is one ugly setup. I'm not a fan of all these huge screens anyhow, but some are just better designed than others. This is certainly one of the "others".
@@stealthis What is it that you like about it? Is it because it's in a BMW or do you actually like the screen? In other words, if that exact design was on the dash of a Ford, would you still love it? Personally, I find that it's design doesn't flow well with the rest of the interior. It has sharp ancle corners that look out of place in any vehicle. Lastly, if you look at it from outside the front widndshield, you clearly see a bracket looking part on the back passenger side. It looks like they designed the screen and when the finished product came out, the screen was wobbling and not secure. So someone just made a bracket that looks like an afterthought.
So glad I found a channel that does proper sound systems reviews! Hope that you can get a 2024 facelift Audi A3/S3 to review the new Sonos system :)
❤❤❤
Harman Kardon in most BMWs: "I'm too weak!"
Harman Kardon in the i4:
"UNLIMITED POWER!!!"
It’s like they are trolling us, the Harman in the x7 ore facelift was crazy loud even at 75% volume
Harman Kardon is really paying attention when they're doing these cars systems, whether other cars sound like dogshit... they literally just have HK badge on them and that's it.
HK systems are usually total shit in cars, but occasionally they do a very good job. It’s really weird how all over the place they are.
Have you tested the new E-class yet? Great video as always!
That's the one I'm waiting for.
Well I'm not him but I have.
It's better than the old 590w Surround Burmester. Better balancing on the bass note than with the old command system.
But the Burmester 3D High-End was different.
Not yet, but I just did the CLE. Coming next weekend, but spoiler alert, it's the least expensive S tier I've tested (not as tested, but theoretically configurable).
Can you review the ex30 please.
Nothing like an aftermarket well instaled equipment , with proper doors insonorization .
ohhhh yes there is haha
its called Bang&Olufsen with proper door insulation and decimated speaker cabinets for resonance control and 2k watts. efficiency? what's that. nope. stiff speakers, kevlar mids, carbon woofers, and endless power
@@Skeppyberry I agree, is B&O on the q5 good?
@@shubdh-hz5ul yes, all of the systems are outstanding. But you’ll find the best of the best in the SQ7
@@shubdh-hz5ul and RSQ8
So, compared to the regular Harman 4 or 3 series ICE, this is way better? Or similar?
I've tested it too in the i4. In my opinion an A+ tier system, S seems a bit of a far reach compared to some other of the category. Especially at louder volumes it lacks behind the other "s tier" rated systems. But everyone has its own preference :)
Certainly a lot better than most other h/k bimmers, I'd be satisfied with this, but not with the G80 M3 stereo
I do agree with you. Part of the rating factors in the price and overall usability and tunability of the system. Yeah a Volvo S60 might sound better, but it doesn't have as good of an interface or as many EQ adjustments. So I think BMW and Harman deserve credit. S- tier
@@DailyMotorSound fair enough!
I’m slightly disappointed in the 3400 bowers and Wilkins system in my M850i. This system probably sounds better than my system 😢
If you used acoustic music (particularly drums and guitar) to do these demos we might have half a chance of hearing the soundstage capabilities of these systems.
Thank You for video , I am not sure if there are a mid range sprakers in the front doors !
I wish I could be in cars like this.
Probably one the the best sound systems for the price, this , and the Bose bassmatch of the mazda 3 . Great video as always!! Cheers
I have an M340i LCI, the HK is poor. The speakers especially are so harsh, tinny, and tiring to listen to. I changed them out for Morels which improved it a lot, but the amp itself is still weak. The I4 is clearly better as it has the larger speakers in the lower front doors instead of just tweeter and mids, so the lower frequency range is much better catered too. Also having that proper sub in the trunk.
problem with the "regular" bmws is that bmw, since ever, has had the woofers mounted under the seats. In my opinion, it's a dumb way to do sound systems in cars. Human voices can get as low as woofers need to reproduce them, now how will the frequency travel through my butt, lol.
It just happens that some of the best factory systems always have had door woofers and an external sub for optimum acoustics
@@v12-s65 yeah I did the Bavsound underseat woofers as well, marginal improvement. The HK amp only being 464W doesn’t help either
@@v12-s65 Underseat midbass is actually much better than doors. They don't suffer from the common 70 and 150Hz room modes and provide a less resonant mounting...something vital to speaker performance. The issues with previous Harman systems lie with: 1. power 2. tuning 3. speaker choice.
The passband of an underseat woofer is low enough to pass through the seat fine, The worse speaker location is the door midrange, which plays frequencies altered by your knees/pants. Also, these past systems did not have a subwoofer, meaning the underseat was expected to handle below 60Hz...that just doesn't work. The speaker will struggle, and distortion will rise. Also, if the speaker is cheap, lacks power, or has significant distortion (itself, or in the processing chain) the system will sound poor.
In the past, sound systems were less of a draw for vehicles. As prices increase, and standard brands (Honda, Mazda, Toyota) provide more competitive options, luxury manufacturers are forced to spend more on sound systems. They provide Harman a larger working budget, meaning:
- speakers that cost more than a dollar to make,
- more input on speaker location (like Mazda with Bose in the latest 3),
- better damping materials and absorbers to reduce panel resonance,
- and most importantly, more seat time.
@@mouthies3 why does bowers and wilkins do such an amazing job with door woofers? I‘m sorry I just can‘t share the same experience even though they are supposed to be „better“. The speakers are fair enough of quality.. it‘s mainly a tuning issue and it misses a real sub, better placement.
My old Meridian in the L405 was a superb sound system with door woofers and the mid ranges were paper cones, not the kevlar ones. The sub was located in the floor, but it had its own box, not integrated into the chassis. With a budget they made it sound very pretty.
The woofers from h/k are supposedly capable from as low as 20hz. Same with my burmester surround. Bass still rubbish
@@v12-s65 No worries! We all have different experience and references when it comes to audio. Especially car audio considering the amount of variables involved.
To comment on the Bowers and Wilkins, we have to first quantify what "amazing job" means here. To me, an amazing job means the vehicle can compete in EMMA and achieve reasonable scores without modification. To my knowledge, no OEM has been able to do so. There are vehicles that may replace OEM speakers then add their own amplification, tuning, and source which do fairly well. However, these systems tend to come with great factory locations (e.g. Mercedes firewall midbass), and great tuners.
Some manufacturers can do doors well, like Audi in the previous a6. They utilized inject molded ported boxes that when damped, significantly reduced door resonance, allowing the sound (vibration) to come from the transducer and not the door internals, shell, and card.
Regarding your L405, I'm sure it sounded great, but that is mainly due to system cohesion (perhaps some rose-tinted glasses too). If you mute all other speakers, the doors will reveal all of the uncontrolled sound they tend to always produce. Also, paper or kevlar...some of the best speakers in the world are paper, it really isn't as simple as cone material.
Lastly, the woofers do not play to 20Hz. That's either marketing magic, or a fib. In a built SQ system, the underseat woofers (with enough breathing space) should play LR24 60-150Hz and the midranges in the doors must be able to play low enough to blend. With a sub that is in time and phase with those woofers (most important to me), you'd have a system that can blow most if not all OEMs out of the water.
Can you test the speakers on minivans like the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid ?
Would've requested you to play the whole 14 mins of "The Poet and The Pendulum" in this system 🥹
You had a bmw m4 with a B tier on the harman. The i4 is a harman that is not much different, but it has an S tier？
It was a 2023 model. They completely change the sound system in 2024
@@patatr4943
It has changed so much, hasn't it?
Thanks for letting me know.
@@patatr4943will this sound system be on the new 2025 bmw m4 ?
WE SUPPORT NO UNDERSEAT WOOFERS INSTEAD OF NO MID BASS
spend your money in an aftermarket well installed and balanced equipment
please do the new tesla model 3
Likely to be in the Mini Countryman 2025 as well?
can you test the bmw i7 xdrive60 bowers and wilkons diamond surround system?
he has already
I wonder how the new m440i gran coupe compares to this
I wonder if the i4 being electric gives more power to audio
Can you do the HiFi sound system also?
Will try, but BMW probably doesn't offer this in the media fleet
Ah I didn’t know that’s how it works but thank you! FYI, the HiFi version is also pretty good for base sound system
Ouch 17 speaker system that sound so bad? I use expensive headphones and dac. So unless youtube video sound is too compressed this sound system is very average. Even Bose sound as good
Trust me, this one is great in person
Strange that you brag about the sound system in this car, when several hundred who actually own such a car complain about the sound. Especially the lack of deep bass. The door basses only play mid-bass, and the rear case only contains an under-seat bass element. It plays so weakly that if you turn it off, you won't hear any difference.
Well sound is kind of subjective, If you really want good Midbass and deep Bass response you have to go for an aftermarket system.
Not really a comment about music or sound. But that screen. Man, that is one ugly setup. I'm not a fan of all these huge screens anyhow, but some are just better designed than others. This is certainly one of the "others".
To each their own, I actually love the design! 😊
@@stealthis What is it that you like about it? Is it because it's in a BMW or do you actually like the screen? In other words, if that exact design was on the dash of a Ford, would you still love it?
Personally, I find that it's design doesn't flow well with the rest of the interior. It has sharp ancle corners that look out of place in any vehicle. Lastly, if you look at it from outside the front widndshield, you clearly see a bracket looking part on the back passenger side. It looks like they designed the screen and when the finished product came out, the screen was wobbling and not secure. So someone just made a bracket that looks like an afterthought.