Yeah I really feel like the EDC community has become a bunch of snobs that don't use their tools and just take pictures of them and post them on Facebook or whatever. I mean I went to Ace Hardware the other day and picked up a Spyderco dragonfly 2 and a Spyderco Stretch 2XL both in black FRN and VG-10 for $140.00!!! Everyone was like " it's not a PM2 in Titanium so it sucks and VG-10 sucks!"...really? Vg10 is probably the best working man's stainless steel out there still.. even more so since "super steels" keep popping up every other day. And Since when did having a steel you can't sharpen yourself become cool? I hate the super steel trends. Give me anything from D2 to S35VN and everything in between and I'll be happy.
The only problem I have with this test is how quickly the load is applied. in my experience scales, especially digital scales, are not accurate under shock load. kind of like when you step on your bathroom scale and it takes a second or two to level off and give an accurate reading. In my opinion you should try using a hydraulic system, that is more capable of applying slower, more steady loads. I would definitely love to see more videos just a more accurate rig. Keep making great videos.
Yeah like, kinda cool that they did this video, but why publish it if you know your results are off by a factor of 4 because the winch builds tension much faster than the sampling rate of the scale.
Weight is the force, an object is drawn with to the center of the planet. A scale meassueres force, when you step on it, you briefly apply more force onto the scale. When you stand in a trampoline, the sheet will sink in a little, when you add momentum and jump on it, it will go down much futher. Also, a slow test would be unrepresantative, because i doubt, that anybody is able slowly apply so much force from their wrist, imho.
@@gehtdianschasau8372 I don't know anyone (who isn't an idiot) that uses their pocket knife like a hatchet, applying huge amounts of shock load To the pivot, and locking mechanism. Most cutting situations are slow, consistent, and steady application of force.
@@BryceAWD It's been 4 years, so you might not remember that this test is about the sthrenght of the locking mechanism when the knife is open. I don't know anybody who cuts with the spine of the knife.
@@samlee6240 Nah, a folder has a much weaker spot at the base of the blade, where there's a hole for the pivot and cutaways for the locking mechanism. A fixed blade, especially with a full tang or even integral bolster, has a much more sturdy construction in that area.
dmp762 of course they don’t. Coldsteel and the Tri-ad lock will win every test. Some may dislike coldsteel but they are in total denial if they think anyone else is building better stronger knives. Cold steel 4max 👍👍
Brian's Life Now, if they only gave enough of a crap to clean the grit out of the mechanism before selling it to their customers. That would be awesome.
+Lorenzo Giancristofaro Seems to me the ball bearing lock didn't even fail. The handle did. The screw broke allowing the ball to come up between the liners.
Ze Doktor I was expecting it, a steel ball bearing as insanely hard to brake, the pivot screws hold far less weight. The thing is that since the scales broke there is no way to use the knife ever again
As soon as the cable slips up on the handle, the test becomes illegitimate. Basic physics. Also, a frame lock is aided by hand grip. I know y'all are really trying, but too many problems with this test. Sorry to be negative.
evvignes not to mention the liner lock is the only one that didn't fail. Sure, it can't be closed anymore, but it's the only knife that you still have your fingers as well
evvignes exactly. I don't count a folding knife's lock sticking in place as a fail. If a knife is going to "fail" that is the best way for it to happen. Much better than the blade snapping off.
Rob Kahla The liner locks did fail the test. The knife just got lucky and you could still use them after but with some damage, the lock still failed. The lockback didn’t fail because the blade failed first so the test was inconclusive since delicas have a much thiner blade than all the others.
This is patently ridiculous, and they're all obviously fine for everyday use, but it's quite well done. Your testing is appreciated! That said, I do wish you'd disassembled the knives afterwards, particularly the Ball Bearing and Bolt locks, to give a bit more information about the failure modes. I'd love to see what happened to that poor bolt. Also, perhaps next time you could vice the handle, and thread the wire through the Spydiehole, for more consistency and a more realistic test?
LOL Nick, you are so right! It seems no one is doing any even half baked scientific testing, maybe Benchmade? Here it was not determined when the deformation started and ended and the force profile of deformation. Besides that as you say for every day use these locks are more than good enough.
In what fairy world populated by unicorns and little bearded dwarves wielding giant axes do you live in that a company is obligated to promise that the product will perform when abused and not used as designed? In short you’re a moron.
The testing is flawed whenever you move a load farther from the pivot its going to need less weight to break and the cable kept sliding to a farther point from the pivot
@Joker Toker I guess if you like hanging off your knives against the lock? Which i have no idea what use that would be putting pressure on a folding knife in that direction.
With that setup the lockback would theoretically have infinite strength. The lock would have to press back into the winch cable to open so it simply couldn't open with this set up. It could be fixed by putting the winch cable at the end of the handle.
You both are seriously flawed. The video clearly shows the cable at and slightly above the pivot point of the lock bar. At the pivot point, there is no bar that ever rises above the handle. Above the pivot point, the bar recedes into the handle when pressed.
@@WhiteSandsMbuna no they arent flawed you are flawed xD, the location of the cable means the lock is being forced closed, so the lock cant be opened, its like measuring the force required to open a door inwards while you are pressing it outwards
the Triad lock is probably the strongest but it's a bear to manipulate sometime I don't like it. it can snap shut on your fingers..a Triad lock is really not a one-handed knife.
John Monroe thats not true at all, my spartan is one of the smoothest knives i own, they do take time to breal in but to say theyre not one handed openers means your ability to open it is the problem or your knives arent broken in or oiled
Well it didn't fully succeed, lol. But yes it did protect the hand which is most important. The problem is, all liner locks are so much different and how safe/strong a liner lock is largely depends on the precise specifics of the lockup, concerning materials, friction, % of lockup, angle of liner at lockup, shape of the end of the liner/the part of the tang that accepts it, stiffness of the liner, how well the liner is attached to the scale, how strong the scale material is, how tight the lockup ultimately is, etc etc etc. Some liner locks are complete trash. I like the liner lock on my spyderco military. It is done quite well considering how lightweight it all is. I've never had it fail, but I do prefer my framelock military. It feels more secure, with how tight the lockup is, and the amount of friction keeping it locked in.
The Ace so you use your knives with pressures of 50+ pounds? Lol how do you know how strong they all are without knowing true strength of the blade materials etc....
Frame lock was a bad test. the loop clearly slips up higher on the knife before failure. that extra leverage is skewing results. others were pretty revealing, though. had no idea the bolt lock and the liner lock were so strong.
Not to be a nick picker, but the cable slid on the second test, moving "down" the blade and giving the winch more leverage. Doesn't this skew the results?
8 years late but your exactly right and the nature of a lockback defeats the purpose of the test as well. all other locks fail in the direction they disengage and the wire over the lockback prevents this the way the test is set up completely skewing the strength of the lock. instead you are measuring the weakest point in the materials
I’d love to see you all do another test that includes a button/plunge lock since more knives seem to be coming out with this lock. The general consensus is that they’re weak but I want to know how much weaker they are than, say, a liner lock.
The cable has to fixed at the same distance from each knife’s locking interface to be a fair test. Otherwise the applied moment is not the same between tests. On several of the tests the cable slid up which increased the applied moment. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding the physics here.
Espada Hunter but the test also proved as long as you apply pressure on the lock where your hand or actually your thumb normally will be the lock will hold very well.
@@whatfreedom7 Except the lock is the reason for a blade failure. The rocker puts pressure on the thinnest point of the blade steel, which is a design flaw required for a lockback. I'd rather have a functional blade that had a lock failure than two pieces of scrap.
@@hunterf9768 since this was a test exlusivly of lock strength the Lock back was the strongest the blade used wasn't the best design to use for the test (put a Buck 110 in its place with a bulkier blade profile and the results would differ)
Take away: all locks are more than capable for everything they are intended to do. Even a liner lock is strong and if it fails it more likely fails in a way that you cant close the blade BUT doesnt smack the blade against your hand/ fingers. Good to know!
That is a very good point. the cable in that location would likely prevent the lock bar from raising above the frame which would prevent the lockbar from disengaging from the blade.
gamer on crack! That is a good point. I’d like to see it done with something simulating more of a push and more hand like than a cable. I’d also like to see more test with bigger lock backs.
axis lock is strong! in fact, in the benchmade tests, the liners deform and the d-nut(not "deez" nut) that make uo the blade pivot completely breaks. that lock is too damn tough for the rest of the knife! lol
i think liner locks are one of the safest locks because when it failed it bent in a way that prevents the knife from being closed. Which means it wouldn't close on someones hand.
Well by that theory the delica is by far the safest knife since their is no blade at all to cut you. 😁 unless of course it flies and stabs you in the eye or ball sack.
I'm not a physics expert, but I do think this test is flawed in 2 ways 1) Inconsistent grip You can see in the slow-motion video of the framelock, the loop slides up before the lock gives way, which changes the force's leverage. The further the force is applied from the fulcrum point, the more mechanical advantage it has, less force is required to do the same work. 2) Direction of force I find it weird that you're testing the force from the handle and not from the blade. I'm not sure if it would actually make a difference, but my guess is that would be a difference in lock strength when the force is from blade to lock rather than lock to blade.
And that’s exactly where your thumb would be when your actually using he knife. So it didn’t really fail. It proved as long as heir is pressure there as under normal use that lock will hold till you break he blade. So really it’s impressive. It just depends on how much pressure you can keep there with your thumb and wether you accidentally hit the release or not.
Can do a retest and tighten the cable on liner and frame lock? The cable on the frame lock test moved up the handle, giving the winch more leverage, instead of the constant 1 inch from the pivot of the blade. Im a big fan of your vids! Good job guys! Mabuhay from the land of the balisong!
+KnifeHQ Thank you for this great video! That you attempt to standardize your methodology, and give the caveats you do as to the efficacy and interpretation of your experiment's results are also both encouraging. I wonder whether the sampling used to determine the multiplier can be considered valid because you state that you arrived at it from but one example. I wonder whether it would hold true as considered against both multiple comparisons between the two tests upon the same model and as between the data differences of those tests done upon the other models--you don't state that here. Interesting and entertaining, nevertheless. Lastly, I do wish that you had included all the data you gathered from this experiment--particularly the failure weight of the two lockbacks. That the item didn't behave as you had hoped by no means invalidates the data here, the weakest link remaining the weakest link. While understanding the reasoning behind your not including the actual data, that you place some imagined, hoped for, but not actually arrived at unknown in your final graph undermines your product here a bit and demonstrates the benefits of double-blind studies as well, IMO. Just my "two cents." Thanks again for the video, and for all of your excellent work.
Any company that advertised testing would have emphasized their own specific strong points. I liked the consistency/approach that you take. Plz keep developing your testing methods to relate to real life failures of folders.
Clearly you're not good at interpreting my sentence. Where did I say VG-10 is a "bad steel" huh? Can you extrapolate what I was saying? I'm not going to try and prove myself if this is just a mistake, but for once just use your brain to read what I wrote and correlate it with the video.
+Fappolice steels are steels, no matter how 'high end' one is, it's still all about trade offs and how well they are heat treated. 52100 and AEB-L are low end steels but can do amazing things when properly heat treated. VG-10 is a medium carbide steel and exhibits the traits of being such.
So why do so many manufacturers use the weakest lock, liner lock, for Karambit knives!? The knife is supposed to incorporate the use of the blade in a reverse manner, putting pressure on the spine of the blade wanting to naturally close it. Why is that type of lock used? Makes no sense with so many other designs out there.
Damn! Here I was thinking my Manix 2 lock was merely a cool and convenient innovation that may be weaker than alternatives but it appears to have done quite a lot better than more conventional alternatives!
Great test! Very nice explanations and visuals on how each lock works. Some surprises there for sure! Intense to say the least, now fixed blades come to mind... tested to failure I wonder just exactly where they would fail?
It's cool to see them doing some tests, and credit to them for doing it, but it's also testing the locks under best case scenarios too. Few locks fail under steady pressure middle of the knife like that under any normal use, but sharp impacts, done from less than ideal positions on the handle, and of course not at a straight line to the lock, etc. More realistic failure scenarios would be more telling, but credit to them and addition of the dynamic force much more realistic and telling!
@@BaritoneMonkey Weight is a specific vector of force. No one said anything about mass. From an engineering standpoint, you measure force. The force is applied by weights, but the lock would fail at that force threshold regardless of orientation, which is why it's more useful. Perhaps more accurately, it's the moment about the pivot that is causing the lock to fail.
Don't know about that 1500lbs and all of that, but interesting to see how much of a difference did your test show in regards to Cold steel test... Than you for this vid!
Take the winners from all tests, including the Buck, the Cold Steel, the Tenacious, along with the Bolt lock, Lock Back etc. Run the test on all the winners for a final winner. I'm guessing the Cold Steel and the Buck will still remain among the winners in the final.
what was the lbs for the Delica ? o.k. so the blade broke, but was the pull weight it mangaged when the blade broke ? cause that shows the lock mechanism held up reasonably good, right ?
thats an awsome test but u dont normally bend the knife inward on its shutting point but backwards at its pivot point like the shape a v is the normall way u would actually apply pressure to a knife yall should do the same test again but turn the knifes around
Its obvious there'd be marginal difference in results. At any rate, locking mechanisms for folders should aspire to be fixed blade strength when tested at the fold. Of all, that means lock backs.
Got the sense I was watching a Spyderco catalog demo. I appreciate what you guys set up, and the consistency of your tests though. Interesting results..
well in a lockback design, the rocker arm has to lift up to disengage the lock, so wouldnt the loop strapped around the knife be holding the arm down not allowing it to lift up, therefore pushing the blade to the point of failure rather than the lock?
to explain a little better, im saying the loop that is pulling the rocker arm down is forcing it to stay in the engaged position with just as much force as is being put on it. it basically took the strength of the lock completely out of the equation, turning it into a test to see what else on the delica would break if the lock strength wasnt a factor. lol
This was recorded excellently. Great work, and very detailed. I said to myself "What the hell is a compression lock?" And seconds later you explained it in detail.
I'm glad I found this channel I've been stressed on getting an EDC knife that won't close on my fingers or something or snap on me and yeah I'm that type to assume the worst but you know I'd rather be safe than sorry... Great vid though.... Because most people don't give any info on knives and stuff like this and a lot of people are trying to get info on it like me
I would still trust the frame lock on the Kershaw Cryo 2 from the first video. Even though it technically failed duh to the fact that you couldnt release the frame lock, it was still a safer lock. Most of the other knives closed when the lock failed, but the frame lock on the Cryo did not allow the blade to close. The whole purpose of a lock is to prevent the blade from shutting on your hand. Therefore the frame lock on the Cryo is one of the few that actually stopped the blade from closing, even when it failed. Therefore i trust this knife lock more than the others.
Dude so cool I am always trying to decide what spyderco I have is stronger and I love to see a couple of my carry knifes on this test I love the Delica 4 same model you test I am so excited to see those results thanks for the time and work you put in on this vid
Can you Repeat the Test for the Delica 4 ... And Pls Put the Cable further from the handle... You are Re enforcing the Lock with the cable placement on the Lock Bar
Guys this video was awesome! More content like this makes the world a better place. I would love to see a Triad Lock on that rig just to see! Rock on guys
No consistent experiment setup, bad execution and we didn't even get a look at the measuring device. All in all, this sucks. You should learn something from CS videos.
It is pointless. When will you be using your knife to support ~200lbs of weight? If youre doing that you shouldnt be handling knives as it is not only unsafe, but it hurts us enthusiasts' souls to see these works of art destroyed like that. But regardless, its a fun youtube video for views. Some people like watching things break, thats why channels like HowToBasic and TechRax exists. Do you need to test how long you can boil an iPhone or an S8? No. Its for entertainment. That being said, idgaf what you do to your stuff, just dont be putting 200lbs on my Delica 4 or my Pixel 2 and were good.
I really love these stress tests to failure. Excellent work man! The only thing that I think about with a liner lock is my finger accidentally shifting the liner over, unlocking the blade, during heavy use. I don’t trust it 100% like I do a back lock. I’ve never had it happen but I think about it when using it. The liner locks are fantastic for one handed use though.
guys first off this is total bullshit! not because the locks got manipulated or stuff like that but honestly all know much about these locks already! we need these locks to be tested: Tri-ad and axis! Why wouldnt you guys test the locks that most people want to know about? Did you guys get paid to not do it or what? Sorry for beeing so offensive but i just dont see any sense behind all this....
+Fappolice The Spyderco Ball Bearing Lock works exactly like the Axis lock. The only difference is in the spring that pushes the lock. IMO, Spyderco only made the Ball Bearing Lock to create some competition for the Axis lock. If you look at 6:56, you can see that not only is the design of the lock extremely similar, but even where the blade contacts the lock is the same design as Benchmade (7:03). It is a blatant copy. If you are a Spyderco fanboy, you'll just have to get over this fact.
+Fappolice The way both locks work as detents and how it locks on the blade when deployed are very similar. And both are pushed by a spring. Spyderco just wanted to get into the Axis lock market. End of story.
Great tests by BladeHQ. A few observations: I think Chris Reeve has long said the great advantage of the liner/frame lock is not absolute strength, it is that it tends to fail slowly and tends to prevent the blade from closing even after it has failed. Clearly that Delica blade tang design has some stress riser issues that should be addressed by Spyderco. I’d love to see more tests, not on the lock side, but on the stop side. If you ever needed to overstress a knife in an emergency situation - say batonning it - I’d love to know which designs hold up best. (My bet would be the compression lock would disappoint - the lock undermines the stop pin.)
+Jimmy Kimber I think the poster was probably referring to an unbiased video on them. That said, I'm sure they perform just as well as CS vids. I also hate Cold Steel though, but I acknowledge their designs are good.
Blade HQ should start doing this kind of stuff again. Instead of pocket jewelry infomercials.
yeah ikr
Agreed. And would like to see some working man review some knives.
Everybody on yt has nice pretty pink clean hands.
Not a single callus.
@@butchcassidy3373 100 % agree
Yeah I really feel like the EDC community has become a bunch of snobs that don't use their tools and just take pictures of them and post them on Facebook or whatever. I mean I went to Ace Hardware the other day and picked up a Spyderco dragonfly 2 and a Spyderco Stretch 2XL both in black FRN and VG-10 for $140.00!!! Everyone was like " it's not a PM2 in Titanium so it sucks and VG-10 sucks!"...really? Vg10 is probably the best working man's stainless steel out there still.. even more so since "super steels" keep popping up every other day. And Since when did having a steel you can't sharpen yourself become cool? I hate the super steel trends. Give me anything from D2 to S35VN and everything in between and I'll be happy.
@@butchcassidy3373 only thing they have are cuts from clumsily handling their fidget toys
For sale: set of pocket knives
Condition: lightly used
Mild damage to the lock.
@@alextsukada4013 “needs lube”
Resale : $190
The only problem I have with this test is how quickly the load is applied. in my experience scales, especially digital scales, are not accurate under shock load. kind of like when you step on your bathroom scale and it takes a second or two to level off and give an accurate reading. In my opinion you should try using a hydraulic system, that is more capable of applying slower, more steady loads.
I would definitely love to see more videos just a more accurate rig.
Keep making great videos.
Yeah like, kinda cool that they did this video, but why publish it if you know your results are off by a factor of 4 because the winch builds tension much faster than the sampling rate of the scale.
Weight is the force, an object is drawn with to the center of the planet. A scale meassueres force, when you step on it, you briefly apply more force onto the scale. When you stand in a trampoline, the sheet will sink in a little, when you add momentum and jump on it, it will go down much futher.
Also, a slow test would be unrepresantative, because i doubt, that anybody is able slowly apply so much force from their wrist, imho.
@@gehtdianschasau8372 I don't know anyone (who isn't an idiot) that uses their pocket knife like a hatchet, applying huge amounts of shock load To the pivot, and locking mechanism.
Most cutting situations are slow, consistent, and steady application of force.
@@BryceAWD It's been 4 years, so you might not remember that this test is about the sthrenght of the locking mechanism when the knife is open. I don't know anybody who cuts with the spine of the knife.
@@gehtdianschasau8372 look up sampling rate. I'm not going to wast my time arguing with someone that doesn't understand what they are talking about.
That was a fun watch! Amazing to see the results with that Delica.
+The Late Boy Scout
Yeah super psyched they used all Spyderco
Winner: fixed blade
Shear failure
Depends on how good the metal is.
well actually the lock back only failed when the blade broke. so a fixed blade would have the same weakness.
@@samlee6240 Nah, a folder has a much weaker spot at the base of the blade, where there's a hole for the pivot and cutaways for the locking mechanism. A fixed blade, especially with a full tang or even integral bolster, has a much more sturdy construction in that area.
depends... compare some sog rat tail or mora that are not even full tang, with triad lock
Would love to see a cold steel version of this test.
dmp762 of course they don’t. Coldsteel and the Tri-ad lock will win every test. Some may dislike coldsteel but they are in total denial if they think anyone else is building better stronger knives. Cold steel 4max 👍👍
Cuz we already know
No need. Already proven.
Brian's Life Now, if they only gave enough of a crap to clean the grit out of the mechanism before selling it to their customers. That would be awesome.
Nah, they're afraid to get sued 😂😂😂
i'm actually more impressed with compression and bolt lock since they both held a lot of weight and they are still usable after failure.
+Lorenzo Giancristofaro Seems to me the ball bearing lock didn't even fail. The handle did. The screw broke allowing the ball to come up between the liners.
Ze Doktor I was expecting it, a steel ball bearing as insanely hard to brake, the pivot screws hold far less weight. The thing is that since the scales broke there is no way to use the knife ever again
Your fingers, however, will NOT be usable after such a failure.
I'm surprised the ball bearing lock did so well
Why don't they use that type of lock for karambit knives?
Repeat the test with Cold Steel Tri-Ad locks. I wanna see smoke come out of that machine.
PowerMadHeadBanger
Or the blade will break
They did that in part 1 and the CS maxed out @ 380 lbs.
@@amadeospapa5673 yes but they didnt use the winch
@@josefstalin9678 true
That’s wat I wana see
The liner lock looks like it didn't fail.
Braindead comment
As soon as the cable slips up on the handle, the test becomes illegitimate. Basic physics.
Also, a frame lock is aided by hand grip.
I know y'all are really trying, but too many problems with this test.
Sorry to be negative.
evvignes not to mention the liner lock is the only one that didn't fail. Sure, it can't be closed anymore, but it's the only knife that you still have your fingers as well
evvignes exactly. I don't count a folding knife's lock sticking in place as a fail. If a knife is going to "fail" that is the best way for it to happen. Much better than the blade snapping off.
evvignes they are also testing the opposite direction a folding knife would be used in real world usage. the entire test is flawed.
thank you
Rob Kahla The liner locks did fail the test. The knife just got lucky and you could still use them after but with some damage, the lock still failed. The lockback didn’t fail because the blade failed first so the test was inconclusive since delicas have a much thiner blade than all the others.
should have used all Sages with different lock types.
That would be perfect. Same dimensions and level of quality.
This is patently ridiculous, and they're all obviously fine for everyday use, but it's quite well done. Your testing is appreciated!
That said, I do wish you'd disassembled the knives afterwards, particularly the Ball Bearing and Bolt locks, to give a bit more information about the failure modes. I'd love to see what happened to that poor bolt.
Also, perhaps next time you could vice the handle, and thread the wire through the Spydiehole, for more consistency and a more realistic test?
LOL Nick, you are so right! It seems no one is doing any even half baked scientific testing, maybe Benchmade? Here it was not determined when the deformation started and ended and the force profile of deformation. Besides that as you say for every day use these locks are more than good enough.
In what fairy world populated by unicorns and little bearded dwarves wielding giant axes do you live in that a company is obligated to promise that the product will perform when abused and not used as designed? In short you’re a moron.
The testing is flawed whenever you move a load farther from the pivot its going to need less weight to break and the cable kept sliding to a farther point from the pivot
@Joker Toker I guess if you like hanging off your knives against the lock? Which i have no idea what use that would be putting pressure on a folding knife in that direction.
I read this in your voice. Dunno if I should feel good about that. LOL
With that setup the lockback would theoretically have infinite strength. The lock would have to press back into the winch cable to open so it simply couldn't open with this set up. It could be fixed by putting the winch cable at the end of the handle.
You are correct. The lockback test is seriously flawed.
You both are seriously flawed. The video clearly shows the cable at and slightly above the pivot point of the lock bar. At the pivot point, there is no bar that ever rises above the handle. Above the pivot point, the bar recedes into the handle when pressed.
Good observation!
@@WhiteSandsMbuna no they arent flawed you are flawed xD, the location of the cable means the lock is being forced closed, so the lock cant be opened, its like measuring the force required to open a door inwards while you are pressing it outwards
wonder about a cold steel tri ad lock
Ikr?
the Triad lock is probably the strongest but it's a bear to manipulate sometime I don't like it. it can snap shut on your fingers..a Triad lock is really not a one-handed knife.
John Monroe It totally is a one handed lock. Depress with thumb knuckle, blade drops on finger with choil, close. Can flick it no problem
John Monroe thats not true at all, my spartan is one of the smoothest knives i own, they do take time to breal in but to say theyre not one handed openers means your ability to open it is the problem or your knives arent broken in or oiled
Dustin Bell is their a grove lock? geddit😃
But the liner didn't actually fail...
Exactly.
Well it didn't fully succeed, lol. But yes it did protect the hand which is most important. The problem is, all liner locks are so much different and how safe/strong a liner lock is largely depends on the precise specifics of the lockup, concerning materials, friction, % of lockup, angle of liner at lockup, shape of the end of the liner/the part of the tang that accepts it, stiffness of the liner, how well the liner is attached to the scale, how strong the scale material is, how tight the lockup ultimately is, etc etc etc. Some liner locks are complete trash. I like the liner lock on my spyderco military. It is done quite well considering how lightweight it all is. I've never had it fail, but I do prefer my framelock military. It feels more secure, with how tight the lockup is, and the amount of friction keeping it locked in.
The Ace so you use your knives with pressures of 50+ pounds? Lol how do you know how strong they all are without knowing true strength of the blade materials etc....
Frame lock was a bad test. the loop clearly slips up higher on the knife before failure. that extra leverage is skewing results.
others were pretty revealing, though. had no idea the bolt lock and the liner lock were so strong.
doluseb
Yes!!
There are plenty of other tests showing that frame locks really aren't that strong when compared to something like an axis lock or back lock.
Not to be a nick picker, but the cable slid on the second test, moving "down" the blade and giving the winch more leverage. Doesn't this skew the results?
+MrSottobanco Yes, unfortunately the wire slid up on the frame lock a bit. As stated not perfect.
8 years late but your exactly right and the nature of a lockback defeats the purpose of the test as well. all other locks fail in the direction they disengage and the wire over the lockback prevents this the way the test is set up completely skewing the strength of the lock. instead you are measuring the weakest point in the materials
I’d love to see you all do another test that includes a button/plunge lock since more knives seem to be coming out with this lock. The general consensus is that they’re weak but I want to know how much weaker they are than, say, a liner lock.
I think a properly-made plunge lock might be stronger.
The cable has to fixed at the same distance from each knife’s locking interface to be a fair test. Otherwise the applied moment is not the same between tests. On several of the tests the cable slid up which increased the applied moment.
Please correct me if I am misunderstanding the physics here.
glad to see someone mention this
the lockback couldnt fail because you put the winch cable over the rocker. it wouldnt be able to move up to disengage
Espada Hunter but the test also proved as long as you apply pressure on the lock where your hand or actually your thumb normally will be the lock will hold very well.
@@whatfreedom7 Except the lock is the reason for a blade failure. The rocker puts pressure on the thinnest point of the blade steel, which is a design flaw required for a lockback. I'd rather have a functional blade that had a lock failure than two pieces of scrap.
@@hunterf9768 since this was a test exlusivly of lock strength the Lock back was the strongest the blade used wasn't the best design to use for the test (put a Buck 110 in its place with a bulkier blade profile and the results would differ)
but the cable is behind the pivot point of the rocker, so it doesn't hold it down
Good call
Take away: all locks are more than capable for everything they are intended to do. Even a liner lock is strong and if it fails it more likely fails in a way that you cant close the blade BUT doesnt smack the blade against your hand/ fingers. Good to know!
For shock loads, i sometimes nimoticed the liner lock to slip to the left leading to disengagement. So it has 2 different ways of failing
I just watched a 13 minute Spyderco ad
Watch the start again...
XDDD
After the Delicas failed, it would have been nice to see other lockbacks tested; like Enduras or something else.
+Hiluxtaco yea or other steels like a ZDP, superblue, etc
+ting280 I agree, since it was the steel itself that failed on those Delicas.
The blade failed instead of the lock because the cable was reinforcing the lock bar along the spine of the knife.
That is a very good point. the cable in that location would likely prevent the lock bar from raising above the frame which would prevent the lockbar from disengaging from the blade.
gamer on crack! That is a good point. I’d like to see it done with something simulating more of a push and more hand like than a cable. I’d also like to see more test with bigger lock backs.
Would be amazing and fun to see a benchmade version of this. Good job guys. Keep it up.
No axis lock? Come on guys...
Probably similar to the bolt lock. It's an extremely tough design, and would most likely break the blade before giving up.
axis lock is strong! in fact, in the benchmade tests, the liners deform and the d-nut(not "deez" nut) that make uo the blade pivot completely breaks. that lock is too damn tough for the rest of the knife! lol
Spyderco doesn't use axis lock, come on dude.
Sasquatch78 please tell me that was a sarcastic joke and you weren't actually trying to tell me that spyderco doesn't use the axis lock....
Mike D Nope, they have the bolt lock which is similar to the axis lock, but it's not the axis lock.
I'm slowly getting addicted to watching these LST vids. Informative and enjoyable to watch. Stress relieving in a way.
i think liner locks are one of the safest locks because when it failed it bent in a way that prevents the knife from being closed. Which means it wouldn't close on someones hand.
ANDROID HACKING 101 and the lock back failed in such a way that, well, the blade disconnected from the handle which guarantees safe fingers
I’ve had a CRKT liner lock fail and close on me. Luckily no fingers were lost.
Delica 4 squad where you at?
Well by that theory the delica is by far the safest knife since their is no blade at all to cut you. 😁 unless of course it flies and stabs you in the eye or ball sack.
I had a Kershaw liner lock fail on me. Have a great scare to show its doesn't always happen this way!
I'm not a physics expert, but I do think this test is flawed in 2 ways
1) Inconsistent grip
You can see in the slow-motion video of the framelock, the loop slides up before the lock gives way, which changes the force's leverage. The further the force is applied from the fulcrum point, the more mechanical advantage it has, less force is required to do the same work.
2) Direction of force
I find it weird that you're testing the force from the handle and not from the blade. I'm not sure if it would actually make a difference, but my guess is that would be a difference in lock strength when the force is from blade to lock rather than lock to blade.
Good point on number 1. On your second point, it should not be any difference as long as the grip can hold the blade or handle steady.
All the violent destruction of these beautiful knives... Blasphemy! (Great video)
The pressure of the pulling cable is holding the lockbar in its locked position, causing the blade to fail at the pivot.
Duh! Why didn't we all realize that! Good eye man!
+Logic Bob ironic cause your name bro...
And that’s exactly where your thumb would be when your actually using he knife. So it didn’t really fail. It proved as long as heir is pressure there as under normal use that lock will hold till you break he blade. So really it’s impressive. It just depends on how much pressure you can keep there with your thumb and wether you accidentally hit the release or not.
Can do a retest and tighten the cable on liner and frame lock?
The cable on the frame lock test moved up the handle, giving the winch more leverage, instead of the constant 1 inch from the pivot of the blade.
Im a big fan of your vids! Good job guys!
Mabuhay from the land of the balisong!
Second :p Sorry for the lost comments, had to correct a mistake. That's what happens when you're rushing to meet a deadline. Enjoy!
+KnifeHQ The red media not found?
+clonexili Yep, didn't get rendered before the export and I didn't catch it.
+KnifeHQ Thank you for this great video! That you attempt to standardize your methodology, and give the caveats you do as to the efficacy and interpretation of your experiment's results are also both encouraging. I wonder whether the sampling used to determine the multiplier can be considered valid because you state that you arrived at it from but one example. I wonder whether it would hold true as considered against both multiple comparisons between the two tests upon the same model and as between the data differences of those tests done upon the other models--you don't state that here. Interesting and entertaining, nevertheless. Lastly, I do wish that you had included all the data you gathered from this experiment--particularly the failure weight of the two lockbacks. That the item didn't behave as you had hoped by no means invalidates the data here, the weakest link remaining the weakest link. While understanding the reasoning behind your not including the actual data, that you place some imagined, hoped for, but not actually arrived at unknown in your final graph undermines your product here a bit and demonstrates the benefits of double-blind studies as well, IMO. Just my "two cents." Thanks again for the video, and for all of your excellent work.
+KnifeHQ you should use like liner lock Gayle Bradley
+KnifeHQ : the liner lock didn't fail....you just turned it into a fixed blade.
Would like to see some Cold Steel folders put through this test. The Buck Marksman as well
Any company that advertised testing would have emphasized their own specific strong points. I liked the consistency/approach that you take. Plz keep developing your testing methods to relate to real life failures of folders.
Should've used a different lockback folder since the VG-10 steel seems to be too brittle for the test
Clearly you're not good at interpreting my sentence. Where did I say VG-10 is a "bad steel" huh? Can you extrapolate what I was saying? I'm not going to try and prove myself if this is just a mistake, but for once just use your brain to read what I wrote and correlate it with the video.
+MGladwell
I don't think the VG10 is rust proof. Maybe more resilient to rusting compared to few other steels, but not rust proof.
***** I 100% agree with that! VG-10 will do the job well, but there are better steels with their own drawbacks.
+Fappolice steels are steels, no matter how 'high end' one is, it's still all about trade offs and how well they are heat treated. 52100 and AEB-L are low end steels but can do amazing things when properly heat treated. VG-10 is a medium carbide steel and exhibits the traits of being such.
Well, no, you could say that fine grained steels are better, as far as i know carpenter makes the finest steel
So why do so many manufacturers use the weakest lock, liner lock, for Karambit knives!?
The knife is supposed to incorporate the use of the blade in a reverse manner, putting pressure on the spine of the blade wanting to naturally close it. Why is that type of lock used? Makes no sense with so many other designs out there.
Damn! Here I was thinking my Manix 2 lock was merely a cool and convenient innovation that may be weaker than alternatives but it appears to have done quite a lot better than more conventional alternatives!
Axis lock is stronger
I think if you for the titanium ball cage for the manix it would beat the cross bar lock
@@williams.1130 axis is stronger than both
Awesome. I still really want to see Benchmade Axis vs Cold steel Triad Lock
Great test! Very nice explanations and visuals on how each lock works. Some surprises there for sure! Intense to say the least, now fixed blades come to mind... tested to failure I wonder just exactly where they would fail?
It's cool to see them doing some tests, and credit to them for doing it, but it's also testing the locks under best case scenarios too. Few locks fail under steady pressure middle of the knife like that under any normal use, but sharp impacts, done from less than ideal positions on the handle, and of course not at a straight line to the lock, etc. More realistic failure scenarios would be more telling, but credit to them and addition of the dynamic force much more realistic and telling!
I know it's probably semantics to most people, but you are not applying weight, you are applying force.
Weight IS force though? Which is why when you weight less on the moon or underwater. You're thinking about mass, which doesn't change.
@@BaritoneMonkey Weight is a specific vector of force. No one said anything about mass. From an engineering standpoint, you measure force. The force is applied by weights, but the lock would fail at that force threshold regardless of orientation, which is why it's more useful. Perhaps more accurately, it's the moment about the pivot that is causing the lock to fail.
@@danielhesse8600 got it. No, you're right then - misunderstood your initial comment. Have a good one
So awesome for you to take on board previous comments and apply a significantly better methodology. Really excellent follow up video.
Awesome video. Cool test as well. Very informative. Pretty sure all the thumbs down are guys who's crappy liner locks sucked it up again.
Don't know about that 1500lbs and all of that, but interesting to see how much of a difference did your test show in regards to Cold steel test...
Than you for this vid!
Take the winners from all tests, including the Buck, the Cold Steel, the Tenacious, along with the Bolt lock, Lock Back etc. Run the test on all the winners for a final winner. I'm guessing the Cold Steel and the Buck will still remain among the winners in the final.
This is the best video I've seen you guys make so far very very well done
Where is the axis and triad lock?
I just purchased a Spyderco Paramilitary 2 Blurple S110V from u guys!!! It’ll be here SATURDAY! I can’t wait! I’ll be buying more!
Why isn't the knife positioned in the opposite direction? Like how you would use it to do cuts not press the dull side against things.
what was the lbs for the Delica ? o.k. so the blade broke, but was the pull weight it mangaged when the blade broke ? cause that shows the lock mechanism held up reasonably good, right ?
thats an awsome test but u dont normally bend the knife inward on its shutting point but backwards at its pivot point like the shape a v is the normall way u would actually apply pressure to a knife yall should do the same test again but turn the knifes around
Eli Garcia that’s exactly what I was thinking. Wtf
Its obvious there'd be marginal difference in results. At any rate, locking mechanisms for folders should aspire to be fixed blade strength when tested at the fold. Of all, that means lock backs.
Wow! Love my Spyderco Delica!
Button lock and Tri-ad lock, please.
Got the sense I was watching a Spyderco catalog demo. I appreciate what you guys set up, and the consistency of your tests though. Interesting results..
well in a lockback design, the rocker arm has to lift up to disengage the lock, so wouldnt the loop strapped around the knife be holding the arm down not allowing it to lift up, therefore pushing the blade to the point of failure rather than the lock?
to explain a little better, im saying the loop that is pulling the rocker arm down is forcing it to stay in the engaged position with just as much force as is being put on it. it basically took the strength of the lock completely out of the equation, turning it into a test to see what else on the delica would break if the lock strength wasnt a factor. lol
I think you are right.
This was recorded excellently. Great work, and very detailed. I said to myself "What the hell is a compression lock?" And seconds later you explained it in detail.
would like to see the cold steel triad
I'm glad I found this channel I've been stressed on getting an EDC knife that won't close on my fingers or something or snap on me and yeah I'm that type to assume the worst but you know I'd rather be safe than sorry... Great vid though.... Because most people don't give any info on knives and stuff like this and a lot of people are trying to get info on it like me
please do test with Tri Ad
Solid testing method, glad you pulled 1 inch from the pivot too, solid method
Test all the cold steel models. See which models are stronger.
Man I miss the good days of blade Hq, the newer lost guys were okay. But you guys rocked!
Why not use a buck 110 for the lockback tests? Bet it would burn out the winch lol
We used a Buck in our first test: ua-cam.com/video/4KmHfbG7z7g/v-deo.html
wll1500 it's just a normal lock back its not THAT strong. One word "Triad"
Oh yeah with a Buck 110 that Test would be awesome
Laszlo Leo Kershaw 1050 folding field :)
Buck 110's are nothing special lol.
Oh and thanks for the video! It was really well put together. Under 15 minutes for all that info? Crazy.
The Tenacious held 380 lbs in the hang test but only 200 lbs when tested again? Something weird there.
Rich L
Noticed that too
Yeah I mentioned that also. How did we go from 380 to 200 both tenacious and both on their own channel? Did I miss another test
I would still trust the frame lock on the Kershaw Cryo 2 from the first video.
Even though it technically failed duh to the fact that you couldnt release the frame lock, it was still a safer lock. Most of the other knives closed when the lock failed, but the frame lock on the Cryo did not allow the blade to close. The whole purpose of a lock is to prevent the blade from shutting on your hand. Therefore the frame lock on the Cryo is one of the few that actually stopped the blade from closing, even when it failed. Therefore i trust this knife lock more than the others.
Try Tri-Ad Locks
F
Barbie
Facinating. Thanks for posting this. While not strictly scientific, there is some value in this test.
Destroying my dream blades 💔
Dude so cool I am always trying to decide what spyderco I have is stronger and I love to see a couple of my carry knifes on this test I love the Delica 4 same model you test I am so excited to see those results thanks for the time and work you put in on this vid
The back lock won't fail that test.
Your holding the lock itself down with the cable..
you guys went all scientific with this one. nice.
Can you Repeat the Test for the Delica 4 ... And Pls Put the Cable further from the handle... You are Re enforcing the Lock with the cable placement on the Lock Bar
This!! This is exactly what I was thinking, I just wondered if anyone else had even considered this...
+gamer on crack! Yes I see that too, good spotting!
Brian Smith but If the cable was further down it would have greater leverage against the lock, making it a unfair test...
What a great test. I wish I would have watched this before Shot Show.Keep them coming.
I'm depressed after seeing all of these beautiful spiderco's being injured
Spyderco*
Guys this video was awesome! More content like this makes the world a better place. I would love to see a Triad Lock on that rig just to see! Rock on guys
use cold steel products 😊
Cold Steel's Tri-Ad rules.
For those using normal units of measurement:
Liner lock 47.5 pounds / 21.55kg
Frame lock 87.5 pounds / 39.69kg
Compression lock 108.9 pounds /49.40kg
Ball bearing lock 229.3 pounds / 104kg
Bolt lock 354.5 pounds / 160.8kg
Back lock ??? Pounds. Blade broke before lock failure.
As a European I just divide the lb by 2 and substract a few percent of american patriotism, which gives me the kg. Simple as that.
No consistent experiment setup, bad execution and we didn't even get a look at the measuring device. All in all, this sucks. You should learn something from CS videos.
messerknartz we still learned which of the Spyderco lock systems were stronger except the delica but that’s about all we learned.
so happy you guys used spyderco
Best lock type: Full tang
I would love to see this test done with a ball bearing lock vs an axis lock
You just did, go back and look at the results and you can see how the bearing lock performed
you do realise how pointless this test is
It aint.
It is pointless. When will you be using your knife to support ~200lbs of weight? If youre doing that you shouldnt be handling knives as it is not only unsafe, but it hurts us enthusiasts' souls to see these works of art destroyed like that.
But regardless, its a fun youtube video for views. Some people like watching things break, thats why channels like HowToBasic and TechRax exists. Do you need to test how long you can boil an iPhone or an S8? No. Its for entertainment. That being said, idgaf what you do to your stuff, just dont be putting 200lbs on my Delica 4 or my Pixel 2 and were good.
I really love these stress tests to failure. Excellent work man! The only thing that I think about with a liner lock is my finger accidentally shifting the liner over, unlocking the blade, during heavy use. I don’t trust it 100% like I do a back lock. I’ve never had it happen but I think about it when using it. The liner locks are fantastic for one handed use though.
It breaks my heart to see these beautiful knives abused..
Here's one, how about comparing the axis lock with Ganzo Firebird's G-Lock??
shame about those knives.
Thank you so much for this test!!! God bless you!!!
guys first off this is total bullshit!
not because the locks got manipulated or stuff like that but honestly all know much about these locks already!
we need these locks to be tested: Tri-ad and axis!
Why wouldnt you guys test the locks that most people want to know about? Did you guys get paid to not do it or what?
Sorry for beeing so offensive but i just dont see any sense behind all this....
Burak Yilmaz
Agree
silat why not test it yourself? This vid was still interesting and comments like these make them not want to try new things
I would have like to know how much weight it took to break the lockback...
Now let's see what an Axis lock would do instead of looking at all of these cheap knock-offs!
+Fappolice The Spyderco Ball Bearing Lock works exactly like the Axis lock. The only difference is in the spring that pushes the lock. IMO, Spyderco only made the Ball Bearing Lock to create some competition for the Axis lock. If you look at 6:56, you can see that not only is the design of the lock extremely similar, but even where the blade contacts the lock is the same design as Benchmade (7:03). It is a blatant copy. If you are a Spyderco fanboy, you'll just have to get over this fact.
+Fappolice I'll back you up on that. Axis and ball are very different.
+Fappolice The way both locks work as detents and how it locks on the blade when deployed are very similar. And both are pushed by a spring. Spyderco just wanted to get into the Axis lock market. End of story.
Just search "axis lock test" benchmade has their own testing videos.
Axis is a piece of shit lock on over priced, ageing designs
nicely done. impressed by the attention to details.
I really enjoyed watching spyderco's being destroyed.
It made me a little sad.
Because of this video, Spyderco should have made a s30v delica, stronger steel, better lock retention.
I legit just went and bought the ball bearing lock knife on Amazon because I had never seen one before this video and now I need it in my life
You really need to test Cold Steel's triad lock.
Great tests by BladeHQ. A few observations:
I think Chris Reeve has long said the great advantage of the liner/frame lock is not absolute strength, it is that it tends to fail slowly and tends to prevent the blade from closing even after it has failed.
Clearly that Delica blade tang design has some stress riser issues that should be addressed by Spyderco.
I’d love to see more tests, not on the lock side, but on the stop side. If you ever needed to overstress a knife in an emergency situation - say batonning it - I’d love to know which designs hold up best. (My bet would be the compression lock would disappoint - the lock undermines the stop pin.)
The fact that the compression lock just failed and didn't outright break is surprising. Makes me re-evaluate my opinion on the PM2.
I want to see a cold steel triad lock tested like this.
cold steel has tons of vids on their triad. even one against the pm2
+Jimmy Kimber I think the poster was probably referring to an unbiased video on them. That said, I'm sure they perform just as well as CS vids. I also hate Cold Steel though, but I acknowledge their designs are good.
Excellent guys! Really informative and greatly edited.
Thanks.