Why are so many people complaining about Scott's choice of weapons? The whole point of proving how pyromancy is bad it by comparing it to what is good. It is basically showing the game is unbalanced.
If you're swinging with a big weapon, you poise through a lot - but if you use a light weapon, you can't. Not as good of a system, but its a good compromise if you ask me.
IMO the problem with spells is the lack of options. You touch on it a little bit but with weapons you get so many more options. Lets say you have a strait sword, you get R1, R2, Block, Weapon Art, Roll Attacks, Backstep Attacks, Jump Attacks, and Running Attacks. And all/most of these attacks will combo into at least 1 more hit (assuming hyper armor didn't come into play). Now lets say you have great chaos fireball.. you can just use great chaos fireball. That's it. Sure you are going to most likely have access to more spells but in the same vein the player with the strait sword can potentially switch to any weapon in the game (assuming they have the stats for it) in the middle of the fight with little-no warning. You can't just change your spells in the middle of the fight and your spells don't get different move sets if you press a different button or two-hand the casting catalyst. Your spells don't act differently if you backstep/roll/sprint before casting it and you can't jump attack with spells. You run out of options really early on. If you want to put spells and weapons on equal terms (in my opinion) you have to confine each weapon you use to only being able to do 1 type of attack. If you want to use a different attack you have to switch weapons. But that would be silly and there is no reason someone trying to win would purposefully put themselves at that kind of disadvantage without some ulterior motive. The biggest advantage you get out of using spells is that they can't be parried into a repost. Anyways that's just my opinion on (most) spells for DkS3.
I agree with the "so dumb it's smart" thing. When I'm going against a worthy opponent, better believe I'll be hitting them with my ninth swing and then rolling to safety.
I know you sometimes take suggestions and I've always wanted to see you try a ranged-only build. Not just using a single weapon but, u know, pharis' bow + arbalests + anything else I discovered your videos not long ago and you've quickly become my favorite ds3 youtuber, your videos actually taught me a lot. keep it up man!
Just a note. Scott's not making these videos to dissuade people from using creative or interesting builds. He's not saying, "These suck, only use CCS ever." Instead, he's highlighting the balancing issues at play, and the vast disparity between top tier builds and the other 90% of builds. He's saying, "There are huge balance issues in this game and From Software should put more effort into equalizing the playing field." I think this gets lost a lot of the time because he's very concerned with appeasing haters, which I didn't understand until I read the comments on this video. Scott, correct me if I'm wrong here, but let's pray someone at FS is paying attention.
ive always put the magic into 4 catorfories -Sorceries-can be used with no weapons -Pyro-doesnt need a weapon but it helps -Miracles-Only for Melee casters with high HP for trades Dark Magic-Has a death wish
The thing is that he played again and again and again against the same players. THIS handicaps pyromancers a lot. If he fought them only once, then went against some other randoms, then got to fight the pyromancer again it wouldn't be like this. He would lose much more. The fact that he continued to fight against the same opponents, the same strategy, the same gimmicks, it's a great advantage for Scott here.
My wishlist for dueling pyromancy, as a pyromancer, is as follows: Casting speed increase on many spells, air travel speed increase on many spells, bursting fireball not to do poopy damage (it catches mid rolls decently well even if they wait for the burst to come out, but does less than a flamesurge tick), and for some of the spells to have the same startup animation so you can do mindgames like with Soulmass/Spear and Lighting Spear/Stake. With all that MAYBE pyromancy becomes viable as a glass cannon build. Maybe. What I'd really like, but will never happen, is ANIMATION CANCELS. I'd like to be able to cancel into and/or out of spells within a given frame. If spell can be canceled out of recovery frames after it becomes active, it charges an additional SP cost to do so. This enables feints and more airtight strings. Stuff that's more consistent and more likely to be respected, so is less of a gimmick. It's totally at odds with Dark Souls' wider game though. That, and the speed of attacks being way faster overall, so essentially I want it to be a fighting game rather than an action game dressed up like one. I'd also like rolls to get a nerf, but that'll never happen either. Extra Suggestion: Make some spells very slow, or the lava from chaos effect lasts much longer than 2 seconds. Then spells can be used to passively control space on screen, like slow fireballs in some fighting games.
Miyazaki just doesn't like spells as much as melee, hopefully he gets bored with melee eventually, and then spellcasters will be busted for awhile. Good Video though, its nice seeing spellcasters duel melee meta and actually doing decently well.
I think some of the things that make pyromancy and other spellcasting types are... 1. how slow spells tend to come out in this game 2. how difficult it is to punish rolling 3. hyper armor, because hyper armor 4. few if not none of the fast spells can stagger enough to stop rushing 5. not enough spell variety? - probably the biggest thing that makes spellcasting difficult is just how un-punishable rolls are in DS3, what do you think?
ya know i honestly think its mostly just the lvl 120 meta's fault. Like 120 Meta is shit for literally every build but 40/40/40/40 meta builds. have it either even lower lvl or like higher lvl like 150 I dont think lvl 150 washes the meta out at all... it makes more build viable.
You do realise the point of the lowish Meta that is lvl120 is to make it so that, you had to make a choice of where to put your stats to. You're not suppose to have a perfect build.
and do you realize that the only choice at lvl 120 is a quality build because everything else is shit. This is not fucking DS1. If you want your lvl 120 meta go play DS1... There is a reason no one did 120 in DS2 except 3 elitsts that cant let go. There is no choice if you do 120 in DS3 - if everything is bad except for 1 single build.
GunRunner Well quit complaining, make a new character at a lvl that you think the Meta should be, and go to the PVP area, and see how many people show up. The Meta is only as good a what people are willing to limit themselves to. If the community drifts from 120 to 140 or 160. Fuck it. It's a new Meta then. But prepare for some OP characters that are able to do quite a bit of damage, with little compromises. At least now, when you see somebody with a heavy weapon, and gear, you know that they running low stats somewhere else. Either way, you shouldn't have that much of an issue finding players right now, in PVP area. I was running one that was Lvl274, and still got invaded.
+GunRunner I didn't see any bitching in his comment. You wrote an opinion and he challenged that opinion with some opinions of his own. Why are people such pussies nowadays... You say a few things against someone else opinion and they want to run and hide and call you a bully...
I had a bit higher hopes than this, but you are one of my benchmarks for "good" dueling in DS3, so I suppose 1/5 wins isn't completely terrible against you.
was it a poop Pyromancy build? granted ive been out of the dark souls 3 for some time.... but still, i thought Pyro's had more to offer, especially if you knew how to use them, these guys didnt do a whole lot.... and try hard scott was just poke spamming, which don't get me wrong it works too well half the time....... idk, i was just expecting more out of the pyro's spell wise...... or is that as high tier as it get for pvp pyro? i must of missed some patches
I think the problem here overall is that From just doesn't design magic to be used as a primary, only a secondary. An offhand, in place of a shield, or in place of a bow or crossbow.
I've been using a pryomancer build for most of today, and the only fights I have lost was due to me being impatient and bad parry timings(can't be perfect all the time). I never once felt like I was handicapped, or the match wasn't in my control. If cinder or hallowed had parry options; dmannohtml would of lost a lot more. Because one parry going into a chaos bed vestiges is around 700-1200 damage, for my build at least.
I hear you. I don't see many, I generally destroy all of the ones I meet. However I am a whip pyro (been one for multiple games) and I have to admit, it is much harder to be a good pyro in this game. Swathe nerf and combustion nerf makes it a struggle to force people into choices. That spear you use is pretty much a counterpick to anyone who is a pure pyro because you can stay in the perfect spot to stop everything. I think the struggle to stay pyro is impossible without gimmicks unless you use a weapon to back you up.
The black serpents really have a way bigger role than you think they do. It doesn't matter if they hit or not. The purpose is for the opponent to play by your own rules. After they dodge a serpent, then instinctivly want to punish or go aggressive. This is when you punish with things like black flame or your weapon. There is 0 drawback to spamming black serpent, except minor focus loss. I like having a broadsword instead of the whip. People get a false sense of security when a caster is only casting. Makes them think that the pyromancer is useless up close, and thats when you punish.
something many people don't realize when using magic based builds is how complex the timing really has to be, in order to be viable against really skilled players like damnnohtml. When I say complex I mean using weaker spells as a distraction so they get hit by what you really wanted to hit them with. an example for pyromancies would be using the floating chaos orb to make them move, it does the damage of a throwing knife but people go out of their way to dodge it. kind of like flame surge, but since that one is common most people have realised you can just wall through it and win the trade. another example would be throwing seething chaos at your feet and using it's explosion to mask a vestiges cast. profaned flame can be used as a wake up when timed right. yesterday during a duel I through seething chaos in front of me, then a moment later cast a profaned flame. the spacing and time were perfect and my opponent rolled to dodge the 2nd spell but went straight into the first spells explosion and got rekt. When using any magic heavy build, you *need* to use your mind. Learning to master magic is like trying to master a weapon class you've never used before. you need to relearn spacing, timing, combos, which spell or offhand compliments your other spel orl main hand the best.
I win most of my duels as a pyro build, but I put a lot of effort and math into my build and equipment so it can reach its maximum potential. Most people don't go to such lengths for a build
you didn't ask to fight a pure pyromancer, so why tell him to use his whip less? spells are a form of projectiles, sometimes the objective is not to hit with a projectile but to condition your opponent into making a mistake that you can capitalize on.
I get your point, but the arguement would be made that at that point it's not the pyromancer it's the weapons that are doing work. For example: I am a pyromancer with stats to run a gargoyle flame spear. Against a better player, I will probably never actually hit with my spells, so if I do win it's probably because the spear is that good.
mechamanexe if you solely use the spear then fine you can attribute the win to the spear. However I'll give you another example from actual competitive fighting games, projectiles like falco's in melee are used to set the pace of a fight rather than be the main damage dealer. A falco player uses lasers to condition his opponent into shielding, rolling and consequently punishes the defensive option that his opponent picks. I used a fighting game example because Scott is trying to argue from a competitive stand point.
I think an even better example is Ryu's hadokens in Street Fighter. The goal is to make the opponent move around the fireball in a way that opens them up, not necessarily to hit with the fireball itself. That said, I don't feel pyromancies in DS3 fill that role. They're normally too slow to be a ranged punish, stuff approaches, or be used as a footsies tool, and not slow/lasting enough to passively control space or let you run in behind them. Basically, all but a few spells don't let you condition and then later fool an opponent, because from the startup to the recovery, everything is slow enough to be easily reacted to (Scott's advice about waiting to see the fireball actually come out of the hand before dodging).
IAMUtubeSockPuppet Your absolutely right, they are not as effective as say Ryu's hadoken but they still can be used that way and hollowed shows that several times in the video. What's more interesting though is that he actually does the reverse too, he uses whiffed charged r2s and impact to condition scott to roll in, which is how he lands most of the black flame (ex. 5:28). If scott asks him to not use the whip as much then that hurts this particular setup.
mohammed nabhan I completely agree. I can't believe he told him to use the whip less. He wanted to fight a pyromancer build and he was. Because he couldn't deal with the whip (A pyromancers weapon) he told him to stop. Ridiculous.
There are two things I focus on as a pyromancer when dueling.1 I try not to let the enemy play reactivity and just hanging back not even fighting me waiting to dodge spells like a bitch. To do that I pretend to just be a shitty straightsword user in the beginning and I don't throw fireballs very often like maybe three times in a duel and almost only when there're attacking that way they take a chaos bed to the face mid swing. 2 I try to be as unpredictable as humanly possible with lots of attunment, for more spells to mix things up. It's kind of weird to me that Scott just decides to only every use the best like three spells in game in his caster build and then spam the shit out of them so once the enemy knows how to deal with those spells there's nothing he can do. I find its easier to hit someone with a spell they forgot I even had it
THat strategy still wouldn't work against a good player, Actual GOOD players will suspect something is up. Not from any kind of tell but just from basic strategy which is DON'T underestimate your opponent . Magic in this game is bad.... like really bad and I played curse build in DS 2.
You have to properly combine melee with pyro if you want to do things like that. I suggest using a slower weapon for catching people baiting pyro and pyro for catching people baiting your weapon. Problem with high level play is good player will never attack until you burn alot of FP. So in the end you will lose against people who will never approach you unless you are trying to get your ashen Estus. EDIT: Or like Scott, they will just use the weapon that completely kills pyro because range+speed. AKA any spear.
Nick Costello Yeah bro, I hate it too, but in the world of competitive/high level play, anything is fairgame unless it gets nerfed. And you can't nerf strong defensive play.
I have never considered pyromancy to be a duel strategy. But in invasions, and in the upcoming area, it might be pretty good to blind side someone who is not paying enough attention. And if kills are all that matter, pyro or even faith might be a great kill steal build.
I wonder how a homing soul mass, fire surge, black flame setup would fare. I feel like the soul mass could really throw a wrench in your engagement. Tell me why I'm stupid.
Could having Crystal Hail throw off a pyromancer's spacing? You would only invest enough Int to use the spell, and use it only to interrupt their spacing, so you could close the gap on them as they rolled out of the hail to fight at your preferred spacing.
I can beat most casters I encounter by just throwing firebombs or shooting bolts at them while they're in the middle of a casting animation. It's sad when firebombs and crossbows are more effective than casting spells, lol.
I agree with your opinion on pyromancy. Ultimately, there are way more effective builds. However, I think it is the most fun of all the spellcasting builds. It provides some flexibility with spell options and does decent damage when you land them. One spell that I did not see used in this video was sacred flame. It is difficult to land for sure but it is possible to follow up with it after a parry. I consider it to be the spellcaster's version of a riposte.
So overall Scott, let's say pyromanies get a 50% damage buff or maybe even twice the damage for earlier levels, would they be good then? Because how I see them it's just a lot of trouble for too little, otherwise they are fine
Pyromancy is probably the best casting type for duels, not the worst. It is filled with AOE and time delay attacks which can catch opponents off guard while also being able to control area through status effect clouds (no one is going to stand anywhere near the acid mist). The fact that it even has abilities to power up melee (not just a flame weapon enchantment but Power Within and that Carthus spell which stacks with consecutive hits) essentially makes pyromancy in 3 what hexing was in 2: the most versatile, powerful magic class that is actually usable in duels.
Okay, maybe not as one-shot filled as hexing in 2 was, but namely, my point is that for many things (including duels), pyromancy typically has (haven't played recently, don't know the balancing changes) advantages over Sorcery and Miracles that make it stronger than both, while requiring an investment in both faith and int to use to the full effect.
So, I get pure pyromancy builds have a tough time, however that doesnt mean all pyromancy is bad. You could use Black flame snake at the very least in your "reactive playstyle", for instance, you could pressure people with the snake while you poke at them with your GFS. On paper it doesnt seem like a bad idea, because you'll put pressure on dudes with the BFS and then when they roll or panic roll from it you can get a free poke or a R1 with Yhorms.
Another one of the key things Scott does is READS. Its important in a lot of games where there are 1v1 situations. If you can predict their next move, then you can counter. If you can read all of their attacks before they happen you can potentially flawless them. He says it himself he learns the gimmicks from these fights and now spells are pretty fucking useless against him. The only way (In my personal opinion) to beat scott is not with gimmicks, or op meta weapons, or spells. Its by being reactive to his playstyle. He does a lot of r1s, and 2 of his 3 weapons in this video can be parried. So you just get a spear and a shield and just wait him out, let him do the attacks and read his shit. Once you got the reads down, then you do the mindgames (which scott needs to learn next if he wants to pretty much win 99.999% of the time). At that point you would probobly win at least a few before he gets onto your gameplay style and fucks your shit up.
The best part of chaos fire orb is the ability to free aim and catch rolls. Some people will say it sucks, but once you are good at it, you can pretty easily do about 200 damage just by them rolling through the fire the ground.
Well now that you've had an experience against good pyros, what is your opinion on the best caster-based class in dark souls 3? Sorceries, pyromancies, or miracles? Sorceries include the dark ones too. Now I know they all are objectively worse than physical, but how do they stack up against each other, counting all of their factors. From damage to weapons to equipment to variety.
Pretty sure he prefers sorceries, as he still doesn't like miracles, and only just admitted to pyromancies in this video. He actually has done sorcery type builds before, too.
Sorcery has both the highest damage and a variety of spells that can reliably hit even good players. Pyromancy is a heavy hitter and best used for deception and zoning. Miracles are mostly only good against the overzealous, but is otherwise a supportive spell class. If you want my opinion, the best caster classes is one that utilizes all spell types.
I've not played Dark souls 3 (I don't have a PS4), but it seems like there's no stamina or weight issues whatsoever. Have they lowered stamina consuption in this game?
Honestly, the thing I have the most trouble with when fighting pyros is concentrating on both not getting hit by the super weird hitboxes of spammed black serpents, and not rolling close enough into range that they're gonna catch me with their straight sword running r1. Fire surge is also really annoying. Although, I personally have difficulty fighting ranged/chip damage in general, as I either play too defensively and never land an attack, while I'm occasionally being clipped to death by a bolt or a spell, or I play too aggressively and take something to the face. Basically I need to git gud, bc I die to casters a lot more consistently than I die to melee builds.
stop smoking hey don't feel bad spells are my kryptonite too. There are just far lesser of them that there is less experience fighting them in a comfortable level. The general strat is to be aggressive. When i say that that means don't be a dumbass and spam running r1. What i mean is pressure them and master the roll timing. Eventually you get an opening and they get staggered to death.
As far as the shit pc performance after windoge 10 update, have you tried going into your pc's xbox app and turning off the recording setting? Worked for me
Hi Damn. Yhorm Machete can hyper armor through black serpent. If it's in your left hand, it doesn't do the running attack when you chargen agaisnt the enemy, but instead a normal R1. Look at 9:07 for example, you were running already and the distance between you and him was close. In that case, you can just approach him and hit hard with the machete as you tank the black serpent.
the point of pyromancy, as well as any ranged offensive tools whether they be miracles, crossbows or sorcery, they all serve the same purpose. pyromancy may not be as fast as a crossbow, or as strong as a sorcery, but it has a lot of different options, which keeps an opponent on edge. the problem isn't pyromancy, it's so-called "pyromancers"
i think bows are kinda op anyway ontop if the fact u have better wep scaling vs magic on like any melee wep your also the boss of ranged combat with a bow. when u then vs cast speeds and recovery against that of a bows... bows can hit u in the cast animation and still roll out the way in time, evrey time... the arrow flys faster ... did not cost them mana and proberly less stamina than atleast most spells.... dose not even require skill, theres no way to roll att with any spells lol but sure as hell can fire an arrow on point as u roll with 100% acc. bow roll atts are so crazy u can punish melee swings with it.
You said that every melee build could win a Pyro, and I would say that rather than any build can win, is that every melee build have access to a weapon or a couple of weapons that can have an edge against a Pyromancer. And that's the problem, caster builds cannot be reactive. If a Pyro could switch between all his avaliable spells on the fly, like you do with weapons, you'll have a harder time, if they could adapt like you do. Is like when you switched to the CCS and thought:"That's no good, gotta go with this other meta weapon". Is like one of those players that have like 50 weapons and keeps switching weapons depending of which is facing, does that mean that a straight sword sucks compared a halberd or any weapons that would outspace it? Does that mean that the Yhorn's Machete sucks because a Moaning Shield can absorb all the hits easily?. That's exactly the whole point of everyone and his mother wearing an offhand weapon like you. The thing is, casters can't do that with spells. That's not exactly sucking rather than a limitation of the game systems. And that's why I always focus on one weapon, overcoming the odds of facing weapons that works well against you, mastering it's moveset and trying to overcome it's weaknesses is what makes the PvP that fun, and that's what makes caster builds that fun for me. And that's what makes all those posers using those 2 combo weapons so boring to me.
I think we can all agree that pyromancy may be in a bad spot right now , but we all seem to forget that we play for fun. Dark souls has always encouraged diversity with builds and we seem to forget that. I think we can all agree that killing someone with a pyro is a awesome feeling.
I played against a good pyromancer, he used the new floating chaos spell, placed them around the ring, spammed fire surge upon getting close, and kept harassing and dodging every time I got close. I am pretty sure the only reason I lost is because my Black Knight Greatsword was too slow to punish him for placing floating chaos, but it sure worked on me.
Well i really like to use pyromancies and i think you focused on the spells themself too much. For me the spells are just the edge. You fight with weapons like everyone else (ok mostly weapons which dont have high requirements, but still ..) and you use the spells when you have the feeling, that you can catch someone with it. Its very situational. When i get pressured by someone, so im not able to cast my pyromancies, i like to counter with punishing agressive (careless) play or with parrying. I get your point, that a pure pyromancer is weak, if he relies only on the spells. But a good pyromancer with for example: 5 spells, 2 weapons and a shield/cestus is so versatile. Every duel is different. And thats what i really enjoy.
I played pyro as my first char and ended up with witch locks too with a parry tool and a dark sword for riposte and anti-pressure. Worked pretty well, but I suppose these days most people don't get caught by the whip anymore or get parried easy. Great Chaos Fireball next to your feet was a great tactic I used also, back in DS1. At this point it's useless since everyone knows about it, and it isn't as good as it was in DS1 to begin with.
Serpents/Lox is remarkably effective even if as you say he doesn't land the Serpents, because it keeps you in position to whip the hell out of you. So, the "Pyromancy" makes it possible to beat you with the weapon.
Man I'd love to play with you and get better, but sadly I play on Xbox. You're one of my favorite Dark Souls players and I love your content, keep up the good work.
@DamnNoHtml I wanted to share about being a pyro is that black serpent>black flame>to pyro fist weapon art is a true combo. Black serpent can also combo either / or profand flame or sacred flame. If done correctly
so basically flame thrower and that black serpent flame seemed to keep you at bay while you'r getting chipped away. Then i'd play more aggressive as you roll in to strike to throw massive fireball. I haven't played much of DS but that seems to be the combo to fuck up melee players.
spear. and he barely did r1s more running r1s. Also its an A tier weapon, whats the problem. straight swords are op, curved swords are op, rapiers are op, then people start saying halberds and spears are op. People need to fuck off, just because ultra weapons arent good doesn't mean that everything is fucking op.
You know what is good against Pyromancy though? Vow of Silence. I know, i know, "Duel Charms for casters" and only used for invasions (or high level anyway). But, I still wonder what would happen\how they'd react to it.
Is there a list somewhere with what you can use cheat engine for and not receive a softban? I want to try my hand at making legitimate builds but I don't really want to play through the entire game numerous times.
The fact that pyromancers can trick you into only expecting complex moves doesn't take away the other fact that you can do this with pretty much any other fighting styles. Pyromancers being smart doesn't prevent smart melee players strongly outperforming them in 90% of the cases when at equal skill levels.
dogfish 1800 i think it goes more along the line of relying on a gimmick. Once people figure it out it stops being effective. Scott can literally just push r1 all day long and people would still be hard pressed to beat his melee play. Because as it turns out melee weapons are a more reliable means of attack. More effective too.
dogfish 1800 i think it goes more along the line of relying on a gimmick. Once people figure it out it stops being effective. Scott can literally just push r1 all day long and people would still be hard pressed to beat his melee play. Because as it turns out melee weapons are a more reliable means of attack. More effective too.
If your a mage you NEED a weapon, there is no pure caster build. I recommend dex as dex improves cast speed. And with a weapon and pyromancy is pretty deadly, for example black flame combos into r1 combo of a fast weapon. Backstabs and reposted can be followed by Chaos Storm or Black Serpent. Buffing a refined weapon is normally best option for a mage, when buff runs out switch to an element infusion if your afraid of rebuffing. Forrbidden Sun is great for spacing and punishing. Small fireballs are good for passive players. Iron Flesh is good for quick step weapon art. Carthus Beacon is good for duel wielding weapons. Flash Sweat is good against other pyros or Flame based weapons like Gargoyle Spear. Perfusive Sweat is good against bleed bros. Profaned Flame is good at punishing wiffed charge attacks or weapon arts. Scatter Fireball is good at getting people to panic roll. Flame Thrower is well like a throwing knife of pyro. Flame Whip is great for punishing rolls. I play at lvl 160 where I can use a good variety with a hybrid build. 120 is impossible to be a mage. Also the lack of poise makes casting pyro hard as most pyro is close range, but I heard they are fixing poise soon:)
I'm not a ds3 player or anything, but I'm decent at analyzing and I must say that the meta for pyro seems broken from this video alone(as it's the only one I've seen anyway). What I mean is that black serpent which you say would be good to create distance is a throw away move in that you can just roll past it and looks more like you user should be running right behind it like it was a smoke screen as a mindgame tactic above anything else. The so stupid it works tactic is good with that smaller black fire move from what I saw. There's also the flame thrower as well and impact appears pointless as it's very visible on when it's coming out. From what I see here, is 1 move that may be good, but too predictable to be viable unless to keep distance, a move used to create distance when it should be used for mindgames, one that is for immediate defense and one for close range counters(the flame thrower). Maybe there are other moves, and that lightning move and whip are also too predictable. What I see here is a nice balance of a mixed bag, but used incorrectly, and mostly a one trick pony for each attack. Again, I've never played, but I'd do the serpent, run behind it and use the flamethrower, or the small fire burst, another serpent or whip attack. It looks like pyromancy is mostly for defense so I'd assume going offensive and using the flame thrower or fire burst as defense would be as viable as you can get. Or go from straight defense to offense and stop going for trades unless you can do massive amounts. But don't expect much from this.
tbh spamming black serp into chaosV. combo is not the best way to use it, u can mix it up , anything with decent tracking works even some free aim, u can reverse step off black serp and go in for a demon fists wep art witch is pretty good with decent range as u spin 2 times and roll catching, the tailbone wep art is also decent ish if u can self aim it and there both pretty light along with witch locks.. u have 4 wep slots minus a pyro flame and parry tool :/ just throw out something they must avoid differently than b4 it works, u don't need to b 150 for the extra spell slots to mix up well, coz they will develop a habit when avoiding that sequence of spells/atts , u can mix it up in with some other stuff too and catch em out, u should not have a pattern or 2 u repeat over and over , same thing gets u killed with a melee build too. and rele in like 10 duels, not 1 spell animation into a parry? not even a parry attempt O,o? he might b good at spacing and timings with his pyro but without the ability to parry he is already very limited imo. u did not have to learn to clock on to many of his mix ups simply coz he did not have many, or a parry to throw out when you are too predictable in turn. u can still get decent damage off a parry with just a back pocket dagger and at like no weight with a parry tool . when your opponent has to jump hoops thou rings of fire to get to you the att is often very ez to see coming AKA a simple parry. i cant help but think this guy has something against parry's , to never use one and only using unparryable stuff. coz if u don't have a way to punish some1 being predictable, you are skill capping yourself, and 100% not worth a trade for 30% EQ roll speeds, again imo.
To make it even worse on him you could have used a crossbow to simply cancel his casting animation for free damage, reducing him to mostly melee. Or beat out his black flame with a washing pole. The real problem with all casters in DS3 is that they can easily be countered so hard that their tools become glaringly inconsistent when the melee opponent has any experience vs them. And the caster has no such liberty vs any good melee user.
Pyro/miracle/sorcery work when you put a long sword or a fast swinging weapon in the right hand and a staff/talisman/pyrohand in the left. Basically have to have a respectable threat at close range and have some long/mid range spells and play mind games. GLHF.
Why don't more people use profaned flame? I just use it on people recovering and it knocks it them down then I just go and swing at them while they're getting up
Why are so many people complaining about Scott's choice of weapons? The whole point of proving how pyromancy is bad it by comparing it to what is good. It is basically showing the game is unbalanced.
Other Worldly Gaming ikr he should had been bear neked fists only
Nuts4secret because the truth hurts
Yeah, Pyromancy does suck. But you know what doesn't suck? Using the Dragon's tooth in a cosplay. Get to it, Scott.
Poise gets fixed on Saturday. Don't give up Skeleton.
I've never given up. I was trying to get out of that tower when someone came down and attacked me. Their skull was like a pancake in about 2 seconds.
Poise isnt fixed PS4 patch is already out and so is the DLC on XB1
"Cosplay? Iz dis caempetitiv?" - Scukk.
If you're swinging with a big weapon, you poise through a lot - but if you use a light weapon, you can't. Not as good of a system, but its a good compromise if you ask me.
HEY I KNOW CINDER! He's /u/ItzTayTay He's a really nice guy and amazing caster player
it is him btw I
And everybody's item source ;)
:)
+itztaytay2 IMA need the set and sabre today
Yeah he is!
Daym, still not as good as a smough's hammer. Also do fatorias already you scrub.
u dont give up do u snorlax
what even is fatorias
Artorias armor with smoughs body I think.
artorias helm with winged knight armor set or just body
Artorias. But fat.
Fatorias is a build I envisioned when I made this game. It must be demonstrated. So do fatorias already you scrub.
I hope you get cancer, you filthy hack. You haven't made one good game outside of partnership with SONY Japan.
Miazaki why is the icon for the artorias sword the regular version and the model the abyss version?
IMO the problem with spells is the lack of options. You touch on it a little bit but with weapons you get so many more options. Lets say you have a strait sword, you get R1, R2, Block, Weapon Art, Roll Attacks, Backstep Attacks, Jump Attacks, and Running Attacks. And all/most of these attacks will combo into at least 1 more hit (assuming hyper armor didn't come into play). Now lets say you have great chaos fireball.. you can just use great chaos fireball. That's it.
Sure you are going to most likely have access to more spells but in the same vein the player with the strait sword can potentially switch to any weapon in the game (assuming they have the stats for it) in the middle of the fight with little-no warning. You can't just change your spells in the middle of the fight and your spells don't get different move sets if you press a different button or two-hand the casting catalyst. Your spells don't act differently if you backstep/roll/sprint before casting it and you can't jump attack with spells. You run out of options really early on.
If you want to put spells and weapons on equal terms (in my opinion) you have to confine each weapon you use to only being able to do 1 type of attack. If you want to use a different attack you have to switch weapons. But that would be silly and there is no reason someone trying to win would purposefully put themselves at that kind of disadvantage without some ulterior motive. The biggest advantage you get out of using spells is that they can't be parried into a repost.
Anyways that's just my opinion on (most) spells for DkS3.
This is really cool! Actual meta fights vs. good pyromancers is kind of cool. These guys must be legendary against randoms!
A pro pyro is a sight to see.
You can avoid black snake by running like 1 step to the side and then charge at him. It's really easy to avoid
kill me once shame on me. kill me twice BLAME THE FUCKEN LAG!
kill me three times UNINSTALL!
I agree with the "so dumb it's smart" thing. When I'm going against a worthy opponent, better believe I'll be hitting them with my ninth swing and then rolling to safety.
I know you sometimes take suggestions and I've always wanted to see you try a ranged-only build. Not just using a single weapon but, u know, pharis' bow + arbalests + anything else
I discovered your videos not long ago and you've quickly become my favorite ds3 youtuber, your videos actually taught me a lot. keep it up man!
I definitely appreciate him pulling meta weapons because that's what these need to be stacked up against.
Just a note. Scott's not making these videos to dissuade people from using creative or interesting builds. He's not saying, "These suck, only use CCS ever."
Instead, he's highlighting the balancing issues at play, and the vast disparity between top tier builds and the other 90% of builds. He's saying, "There are huge balance issues in this game and From Software should put more effort into equalizing the playing field."
I think this gets lost a lot of the time because he's very concerned with appeasing haters, which I didn't understand until I read the comments on this video. Scott, correct me if I'm wrong here, but let's pray someone at FS is paying attention.
ive always put the magic into 4 catorfories
-Sorceries-can be used with no weapons
-Pyro-doesnt need a weapon but it helps
-Miracles-Only for Melee casters with high HP for trades
Dark Magic-Has a death wish
i play with pure dark magic
So the conclusion is that pyros are only viable if you're extremely skilled and fighting a less skilled opponent
Or you can surprise them repeatedly
The thing is that he played again and again and again against the same players. THIS handicaps pyromancers a lot. If he fought them only once, then went against some other randoms, then got to fight the pyromancer again it wouldn't be like this. He would lose much more. The fact that he continued to fight against the same opponents, the same strategy, the same gimmicks, it's a great advantage for Scott here.
My wishlist for dueling pyromancy, as a pyromancer, is as follows: Casting speed increase on many spells, air travel speed increase on many spells, bursting fireball not to do poopy damage (it catches mid rolls decently well even if they wait for the burst to come out, but does less than a flamesurge tick), and for some of the spells to have the same startup animation so you can do mindgames like with Soulmass/Spear and Lighting Spear/Stake. With all that MAYBE pyromancy becomes viable as a glass cannon build. Maybe.
What I'd really like, but will never happen, is ANIMATION CANCELS. I'd like to be able to cancel into and/or out of spells within a given frame. If spell can be canceled out of recovery frames after it becomes active, it charges an additional SP cost to do so. This enables feints and more airtight strings. Stuff that's more consistent and more likely to be respected, so is less of a gimmick. It's totally at odds with Dark Souls' wider game though. That, and the speed of attacks being way faster overall, so essentially I want it to be a fighting game rather than an action game dressed up like one.
I'd also like rolls to get a nerf, but that'll never happen either.
Extra Suggestion: Make some spells very slow, or the lava from chaos effect lasts much longer than 2 seconds. Then spells can be used to passively control space on screen, like slow fireballs in some fighting games.
i went outside today and poured gasiline on somebody and threw a match at them and they died thats proof that pyromancies are efficient
no
Miyazaki just doesn't like spells as much as melee, hopefully he gets bored with melee eventually, and then spellcasters will be busted for awhile.
Good Video though, its nice seeing spellcasters duel melee meta and actually doing decently well.
I think some of the things that make pyromancy and other spellcasting types are... 1. how slow spells tend to come out in this game 2. how difficult it is to punish rolling 3. hyper armor, because hyper armor 4. few if not none of the fast spells can stagger enough to stop rushing 5. not enough spell variety? - probably the biggest thing that makes spellcasting difficult is just how un-punishable rolls are in DS3, what do you think?
ya know i honestly think its mostly just the lvl 120 meta's fault. Like 120 Meta is shit for literally every build but 40/40/40/40 meta builds.
have it either even lower lvl or like higher lvl like 150
I dont think lvl 150 washes the meta out at all... it makes more build viable.
You do realise the point of the lowish Meta that is lvl120 is to make it so that, you had to make a choice of where to put your stats to. You're not suppose to have a perfect build.
and do you realize that the only choice at lvl 120 is a quality build because everything else is shit. This is not fucking DS1. If you want your lvl 120 meta go play DS1...
There is a reason no one did 120 in DS2 except 3 elitsts that cant let go.
There is no choice if you do 120 in DS3 - if everything is bad except for 1 single build.
GunRunner Well quit complaining, make a new character at a lvl that you think the Meta should be, and go to the PVP area, and see how many people show up. The Meta is only as good a what people are willing to limit themselves to. If the community drifts from 120 to 140 or 160. Fuck it. It's a new Meta then. But prepare for some OP characters that are able to do quite a bit of damage, with little compromises. At least now, when you see somebody with a heavy weapon, and gear, you know that they running low stats somewhere else.
Either way, you shouldn't have that much of an issue finding players right now, in PVP area. I was running one that was Lvl274, and still got invaded.
who's complaining yer the one's bitching at me for stating my opinion but whatever
+GunRunner I didn't see any bitching in his comment. You wrote an opinion and he challenged that opinion with some opinions of his own. Why are people such pussies nowadays... You say a few things against someone else opinion and they want to run and hide and call you a bully...
I had a bit higher hopes than this, but you are one of my benchmarks for "good" dueling in DS3, so I suppose 1/5 wins isn't completely terrible against you.
Craig Tierney thats actually really good considering it was super try hard scott vs a very good pyromancer with pyromancy being a poop build
was it a poop Pyromancy build? granted ive been out of the dark souls 3 for some time.... but still, i thought Pyro's had more to offer, especially if you knew how to use them, these guys didnt do a whole lot.... and try hard scott was just poke spamming, which don't get me wrong it works too well half the time....... idk, i was just expecting more out of the pyro's spell wise...... or is that as high tier as it get for pvp pyro? i must of missed some patches
RyukLuvApples watch Scott's "Preblem with pyromancy" video where he tries to explain, why pyromancy is bad for 1v1 fights generally.
Алексей Сафронов sounds interesting.... i shall do just that
I think the problem here overall is that From just doesn't design magic to be used as a primary, only a secondary. An offhand, in place of a shield, or in place of a bow or crossbow.
I've been using a pryomancer build for most of today, and the only fights I have lost was due to me being impatient and bad parry timings(can't be perfect all the time). I never once felt like I was handicapped, or the match wasn't in my control. If cinder or hallowed had parry options; dmannohtml would of lost a lot more. Because one parry going into a chaos bed vestiges is around 700-1200 damage, for my build at least.
morne's greathammer is life
I love that hunk of holy iron
I hear you. I don't see many, I generally destroy all of the ones I meet. However I am a whip pyro (been one for multiple games) and I have to admit, it is much harder to be a good pyro in this game. Swathe nerf and combustion nerf makes it a struggle to force people into choices.
That spear you use is pretty much a counterpick to anyone who is a pure pyro because you can stay in the perfect spot to stop everything. I think the struggle to stay pyro is impossible without gimmicks unless you use a weapon to back you up.
The black serpents really have a way bigger role than you think they do. It doesn't matter if they hit or not. The purpose is for the opponent to play by your own rules. After they dodge a serpent, then instinctivly want to punish or go aggressive. This is when you punish with things like black flame or your weapon. There is 0 drawback to spamming black serpent, except minor focus loss. I like having a broadsword instead of the whip. People get a false sense of security when a caster is only casting. Makes them think that the pyromancer is useless up close, and thats when you punish.
something many people don't realize when using magic based builds is how complex the timing really has to be, in order to be viable against really skilled players like damnnohtml. When I say complex I mean using weaker spells as a distraction so they get hit by what you really wanted to hit them with. an example for pyromancies would be using the floating chaos orb to make them move, it does the damage of a throwing knife but people go out of their way to dodge it. kind of like flame surge, but since that one is common most people have realised you can just wall through it and win the trade. another example would be throwing seething chaos at your feet and using it's explosion to mask a vestiges cast. profaned flame can be used as a wake up when timed right. yesterday during a duel I through seething chaos in front of me, then a moment later cast a profaned flame. the spacing and time were perfect and my opponent rolled to dodge the 2nd spell but went straight into the first spells explosion and got rekt. When using any magic heavy build, you *need* to use your mind. Learning to master magic is like trying to master a weapon class you've never used before. you need to relearn spacing, timing, combos, which spell or offhand compliments your other spel orl main hand the best.
I win most of my duels as a pyro build, but I put a lot of effort and math into my build and equipment so it can reach its maximum potential. Most people don't go to such lengths for a build
you didn't ask to fight a pure pyromancer, so why tell him to use his whip less? spells are a form of projectiles, sometimes the objective is not to hit with a projectile but to condition your opponent into making a mistake that you can capitalize on.
I get your point, but the arguement would be made that at that point it's not the pyromancer it's the weapons that are doing work.
For example: I am a pyromancer with stats to run a gargoyle flame spear. Against a better player, I will probably never actually hit with my spells, so if I do win it's probably because the spear is that good.
mechamanexe if you solely use the spear then fine you can attribute the win to the spear. However I'll give you another example from actual competitive fighting games, projectiles like falco's in melee are used to set the pace of a fight rather than be the main damage dealer. A falco player uses lasers to condition his opponent into shielding, rolling and consequently punishes the defensive option that his opponent picks. I used a fighting game example because Scott is trying to argue from a competitive stand point.
I think an even better example is Ryu's hadokens in Street Fighter. The goal is to make the opponent move around the fireball in a way that opens them up, not necessarily to hit with the fireball itself.
That said, I don't feel pyromancies in DS3 fill that role. They're normally too slow to be a ranged punish, stuff approaches, or be used as a footsies tool, and not slow/lasting enough to passively control space or let you run in behind them.
Basically, all but a few spells don't let you condition and then later fool an opponent, because from the startup to the recovery, everything is slow enough to be easily reacted to (Scott's advice about waiting to see the fireball actually come out of the hand before dodging).
IAMUtubeSockPuppet Your absolutely right, they are not as effective as say Ryu's hadoken but they still can be used that way and hollowed shows that several times in the video. What's more interesting though is that he actually does the reverse too, he uses whiffed charged r2s and impact to condition scott to roll in, which is how he lands most of the black flame (ex. 5:28). If scott asks him to not use the whip as much then that hurts this particular setup.
mohammed nabhan I completely agree. I can't believe he told him to use the whip less. He wanted to fight a pyromancer build and he was. Because he couldn't deal with the whip (A pyromancers weapon) he told him to stop. Ridiculous.
There are two things I focus on as a pyromancer when dueling.1 I try not to let the enemy play reactivity and just hanging back not even fighting me waiting to dodge spells like a bitch. To do that I pretend to just be a shitty straightsword user in the beginning and I don't throw fireballs very often like maybe three times in a duel and almost only when there're attacking that way they take a chaos bed to the face mid swing. 2 I try to be as unpredictable as humanly possible with lots of attunment, for more spells to mix things up. It's kind of weird to me that Scott just decides to only every use the best like three spells in game in his caster build and then spam the shit out of them so once the enemy knows how to deal with those spells there's nothing he can do. I find its easier to hit someone with a spell they forgot I even had it
Nick Costello and its still bad :'(
THat strategy still wouldn't work against a good player, Actual GOOD players will suspect something is up. Not from any kind of tell but just from basic strategy which is DON'T underestimate your opponent . Magic in this game is bad.... like really bad and I played curse build in DS 2.
You have to properly combine melee with pyro if you want to do things like that. I suggest using a slower weapon for catching people baiting pyro and pyro for catching people baiting your weapon. Problem with high level play is good player will never attack until you burn alot of FP. So in the end you will lose against people who will never approach you unless you are trying to get your ashen Estus.
EDIT: Or like Scott, they will just use the weapon that completely kills pyro because range+speed. AKA any spear.
ShadovvWolfie ya that's what I meant by playing like a bitch not even really fighting
Nick Costello Yeah bro, I hate it too, but in the world of competitive/high level play, anything is fairgame unless it gets nerfed. And you can't nerf strong defensive play.
I have never considered pyromancy to be a duel strategy. But in invasions, and in the upcoming area, it might be pretty good to blind side someone who is not paying enough attention. And if kills are all that matter, pyro or even faith might be a great kill steal build.
I wonder how a homing soul mass, fire surge, black flame setup would fare. I feel like the soul mass could really throw a wrench in your engagement. Tell me why I'm stupid.
Could having Crystal Hail throw off a pyromancer's spacing? You would only invest enough Int to use the spell, and use it only to interrupt their spacing, so you could close the gap on them as they rolled out of the hail to fight at your preferred spacing.
that gootecks face in the thumbnail though lol
How about duels with an actual good tank build... oh wait, that's impossible in this game. Do Havel cosplay duels!
I can beat most casters I encounter by just throwing firebombs or shooting bolts at them while they're in the middle of a casting animation. It's sad when firebombs and crossbows are more effective than casting spells, lol.
Best counter to any caster build... katana running attacks.
*says only uses melee weapons*
*says spells are bad*
yep definitely not biased
"Duels with an actual good pyromancer"
*"pyromancer" throws lightnings*
Yeah that was one of the 7 people that never beat him, and not the person the title refers to.
I agree with your opinion on pyromancy. Ultimately, there are way more effective builds. However, I think it is the most fun of all the spellcasting builds. It provides some flexibility with spell options and does decent damage when you land them. One spell that I did not see used in this video was sacred flame. It is difficult to land for sure but it is possible to follow up with it after a parry. I consider it to be the spellcaster's version of a riposte.
So overall Scott, let's say pyromanies get a 50% damage buff or maybe even twice the damage for earlier levels, would they be good then? Because how I see them it's just a lot of trouble for too little, otherwise they are fine
Now we need to see good miracle casters.
Pyromancy is probably the best casting type for duels, not the worst. It is filled with AOE and time delay attacks which can catch opponents off guard while also being able to control area through status effect clouds (no one is going to stand anywhere near the acid mist). The fact that it even has abilities to power up melee (not just a flame weapon enchantment but Power Within and that Carthus spell which stacks with consecutive hits) essentially makes pyromancy in 3 what hexing was in 2: the most versatile, powerful magic class that is actually usable in duels.
Okay, maybe not as one-shot filled as hexing in 2 was, but namely, my point is that for many things (including duels), pyromancy typically has (haven't played recently, don't know the balancing changes) advantages over Sorcery and Miracles that make it stronger than both, while requiring an investment in both faith and int to use to the full effect.
So, I get pure pyromancy builds have a tough time, however that doesnt mean all pyromancy is bad. You could use Black flame snake at the very least in your "reactive playstyle", for instance, you could pressure people with the snake while you poke at them with your GFS. On paper it doesnt seem like a bad idea, because you'll put pressure on dudes with the BFS and then when they roll or panic roll from it you can get a free poke or a R1 with Yhorms.
Another one of the key things Scott does is READS. Its important in a lot of games where there are 1v1 situations. If you can predict their next move, then you can counter. If you can read all of their attacks before they happen you can potentially flawless them. He says it himself he learns the gimmicks from these fights and now spells are pretty fucking useless against him. The only way (In my personal opinion) to beat scott is not with gimmicks, or op meta weapons, or spells. Its by being reactive to his playstyle. He does a lot of r1s, and 2 of his 3 weapons in this video can be parried. So you just get a spear and a shield and just wait him out, let him do the attacks and read his shit. Once you got the reads down, then you do the mindgames (which scott needs to learn next if he wants to pretty much win 99.999% of the time). At that point you would probobly win at least a few before he gets onto your gameplay style and fucks your shit up.
Do you think the onyx blade will be the Moonlight greatsword for pyromancers?
most likely will be
It's more likely to be the greatsword of judgement for pyromancers, as it has to be constantly buffed to keep its damage output up.
Mercury Knyght
but dat range thou.
The best part of chaos fire orb is the ability to free aim and catch rolls. Some people will say it sucks, but once you are good at it, you can pretty easily do about 200 damage just by them rolling through the fire the ground.
nice to see u being humble bout this nohtml. u have made urself look really gud I think bro. keep up the gud work m8
Well now that you've had an experience against good pyros, what is your opinion on the best caster-based class in dark souls 3? Sorceries, pyromancies, or miracles? Sorceries include the dark ones too. Now I know they all are objectively worse than physical, but how do they stack up against each other, counting all of their factors. From damage to weapons to equipment to variety.
Pretty sure he prefers sorceries, as he still doesn't like miracles, and only just admitted to pyromancies in this video. He actually has done sorcery type builds before, too.
Sorcery has both the highest damage and a variety of spells that can reliably hit even good players. Pyromancy is a heavy hitter and best used for deception and zoning. Miracles are mostly only good against the overzealous, but is otherwise a supportive spell class.
If you want my opinion, the best caster classes is one that utilizes all spell types.
I've not played Dark souls 3 (I don't have a PS4), but it seems like there's no stamina or weight issues whatsoever. Have they lowered stamina consuption in this game?
Pyromancy/faith builds are really good, but better for invading, not dueling.
Honestly, the thing I have the most trouble with when fighting pyros is concentrating on both not getting hit by the super weird hitboxes of spammed black serpents, and not rolling close enough into range that they're gonna catch me with their straight sword running r1. Fire surge is also really annoying.
Although, I personally have difficulty fighting ranged/chip damage in general, as I either play too defensively and never land an attack, while I'm occasionally being clipped to death by a bolt or a spell, or I play too aggressively and take something to the face. Basically I need to git gud, bc I die to casters a lot more consistently than I die to melee builds.
stop smoking hey don't feel bad spells are my kryptonite too. There are just far lesser of them that there is less experience fighting them in a comfortable level. The general strat is to be aggressive. When i say that that means don't be a dumbass and spam running r1. What i mean is pressure them and master the roll timing. Eventually you get an opening and they get staggered to death.
Is there a reason you can't jam the videos into your video editing program (even if it's just windows movie maker) instead of screen recording videos?
As far as the shit pc performance after windoge 10 update, have you tried going into your pc's xbox app and turning off the recording setting? Worked for me
Hi Damn.
Yhorm Machete can hyper armor through black serpent. If it's in your left hand, it doesn't do the running attack when you chargen agaisnt the enemy, but instead a normal R1. Look at 9:07 for example, you were running already and the distance between you and him was close. In that case, you can just approach him and hit hard with the machete as you tank the black serpent.
Now pyromancers would slaughter you.
Cool of ya to actually make a vid of it ^^
So, should i assume taht both of their builds have 40/40 Int/Fth?
the point of pyromancy, as well as any ranged offensive tools whether they be miracles, crossbows or sorcery, they all serve the same purpose. pyromancy may not be as fast as a crossbow, or as strong as a sorcery, but it has a lot of different options, which keeps an opponent on edge. the problem isn't pyromancy, it's so-called "pyromancers"
Off topic but I haven't seen an episode of cosplay duels ina whil. Do Creighton and go crazy with the war cry.
Ever tried using a crossbow to counter the range and animation of black serpent?
He wanted to do it meelee.
Biscoitinho Makes sense lol
i think bows are kinda op anyway ontop if the fact u have better wep scaling vs magic on like any melee wep your also the boss of ranged combat with a bow.
when u then vs cast speeds and recovery against that of a bows... bows can hit u in the cast animation and still roll out the way in time, evrey time... the arrow flys faster ... did not cost them mana and proberly less stamina than atleast most spells.... dose not even require skill, theres no way to roll att with any spells lol but sure as hell can fire an arrow on point as u roll with 100% acc. bow roll atts are so crazy u can punish melee swings with it.
ST4RF0X17 To be honest, the only time I even use it is when I see shit like what he's using in the video. Or Astora Greatsword users lol
whitch is exactly what i would expect some1 to do when out ranged but quality builds just get the best of both worlds lol
You said that every melee build could win a Pyro, and I would say that rather than any build can win, is that every melee build have access to a weapon or a couple of weapons that can have an edge against a Pyromancer. And that's the problem, caster builds cannot be reactive. If a Pyro could switch between all his avaliable spells on the fly, like you do with weapons, you'll have a harder time, if they could adapt like you do. Is like when you switched to the CCS and thought:"That's no good, gotta go with this other meta weapon". Is like one of those players that have like 50 weapons and keeps switching weapons depending of which is facing, does that mean that a straight sword sucks compared a halberd or any weapons that would outspace it? Does that mean that the Yhorn's Machete sucks because a Moaning Shield can absorb all the hits easily?. That's exactly the whole point of everyone and his mother wearing an offhand weapon like you.
The thing is, casters can't do that with spells. That's not exactly sucking rather than a limitation of the game systems. And that's why I always focus on one weapon, overcoming the odds of facing weapons that works well against you, mastering it's moveset and trying to overcome it's weaknesses is what makes the PvP that fun, and that's what makes caster builds that fun for me. And that's what makes all those posers using those 2 combo weapons so boring to me.
Boulder heave, the perfect embodiment of the «it's so dumb it's good strategy».
do fatorias. smough said so
I think we can all agree that pyromancy may be in a bad spot right now , but we all seem to forget that we play for fun. Dark souls has always encouraged diversity with builds and we seem to forget that. I think we can all agree that killing someone with a pyro is a awesome feeling.
I played against a good pyromancer, he used the new floating chaos spell, placed them around the ring, spammed fire surge upon getting close, and kept harassing and dodging every time I got close. I am pretty sure the only reason I lost is because my Black Knight Greatsword was too slow to punish him for placing floating chaos, but it sure worked on me.
Well i really like to use pyromancies and i think you focused on the spells themself too much. For me the spells are just the edge. You fight with weapons like everyone else (ok mostly weapons which dont have high requirements, but still ..) and you use the spells when you have the feeling, that you can catch someone with it. Its very situational.
When i get pressured by someone, so im not able to cast my pyromancies, i like to counter with punishing agressive (careless) play or with parrying.
I get your point, that a pure pyromancer is weak, if he relies only on the spells. But a good pyromancer with for example: 5 spells, 2 weapons and a shield/cestus is so versatile. Every duel is different. And thats what i really enjoy.
I played pyro as my first char and ended up with witch locks too with a parry tool and a dark sword for riposte and anti-pressure. Worked pretty well, but I suppose these days most people don't get caught by the whip anymore or get parried easy. Great Chaos Fireball next to your feet was a great tactic I used also, back in DS1. At this point it's useless since everyone knows about it, and it isn't as good as it was in DS1 to begin with.
Serpents/Lox is remarkably effective even if as you say he doesn't land the Serpents, because it keeps you in position to whip the hell out of you. So, the "Pyromancy" makes it possible to beat you with the weapon.
Man I'd love to play with you and get better, but sadly I play on Xbox. You're one of my favorite Dark Souls players and I love your content, keep up the good work.
I mean, spells/pyromancy may not be the best thing in the game, but it's so much more fun and versatile compared to swinging swords all the time
@DamnNoHtml I wanted to share about being a pyro is that black serpent>black flame>to pyro fist weapon art is a true combo. Black serpent can also combo either / or profand flame or sacred flame. If done correctly
Man look at those top tier pyros /sarcasm
real 360p hours
so basically flame thrower and that black serpent flame seemed to keep you at bay while you'r getting chipped away. Then i'd play more aggressive as you roll in to strike to throw massive fireball. I haven't played much of DS but that seems to be the combo to fuck up melee players.
You just R1 spammed a lance....
to be fair, that's a spear. you don't r1 spam with pikes/lances, you r2 spam. :^)
+General Backhand it's a lance....
It's not a lance.....
spear. and he barely did r1s more running r1s. Also its an A tier weapon, whats the problem. straight swords are op, curved swords are op, rapiers are op, then people start saying halberds and spears are op. People need to fuck off, just because ultra weapons arent good doesn't mean that everything is fucking op.
E L L I P S E S B O I S
notice how he only uses the same 3 spells, FROM do something us casters are struggling here
You know what is good against Pyromancy though? Vow of Silence. I know, i know, "Duel Charms for casters" and only used for invasions (or high level anyway). But, I still wonder what would happen\how they'd react to it.
How many levels can I go over 120 and still play those players? Trying to make a havel build and need all the stats i can get.
Jordan Lea 132 i think
Good lord, didn't know black flame hit like a decent truck.
Is there a list somewhere with what you can use cheat engine for and not receive a softban? I want to try my hand at making legitimate builds but I don't really want to play through the entire game numerous times.
Can please someone Tello me where's the fun in just running and pressing R1 after every enemy roll?
if you people hadn't butchered magic maybe it should be more fun
The fact that pyromancers can trick you into only expecting complex moves doesn't take away the other fact that you can do this with pretty much any other fighting styles.
Pyromancers being smart doesn't prevent smart melee players strongly outperforming them in 90% of the cases when at equal skill levels.
So you're saying that they are mostly relying on gimmicks while you are spamming spear pokes and carthus curved sword?
dogfish 1800 i think it goes more along the line of relying on a gimmick. Once people figure it out it stops being effective. Scott can literally just push r1 all day long and people would still be hard pressed to beat his melee play. Because as it turns out melee weapons are a more reliable means of attack. More effective too.
dogfish 1800 i think it goes more along the line of relying on a gimmick. Once people figure it out it stops being effective. Scott can literally just push r1 all day long and people would still be hard pressed to beat his melee play. Because as it turns out melee weapons are a more reliable means of attack. More effective too.
11:14 that was so close, and the repeats make it look like you're bouncing Yhorm's machete off his face over and over lol..
You're using two of the best items against mages- good ranged spears and css. You can keep pressure better than other builds.
that is the point pyro cant keep up with the meta
If your a mage you NEED a weapon, there is no pure caster build. I recommend dex as dex improves cast speed. And with a weapon and pyromancy is pretty deadly, for example black flame combos into r1 combo of a fast weapon. Backstabs and reposted can be followed by Chaos Storm or Black Serpent. Buffing a refined weapon is normally best option for a mage, when buff runs out switch to an element infusion if your afraid of rebuffing. Forrbidden Sun is great for spacing and punishing. Small fireballs are good for passive players. Iron Flesh is good for quick step weapon art. Carthus Beacon is good for duel wielding weapons. Flash Sweat is good against other pyros or Flame based weapons like Gargoyle Spear. Perfusive Sweat is good against bleed bros. Profaned Flame is good at punishing wiffed charge attacks or weapon arts. Scatter Fireball is good at getting people to panic roll. Flame Thrower is well like a throwing knife of pyro. Flame Whip is great for punishing rolls.
I play at lvl 160 where I can use a good variety with a hybrid build. 120 is impossible to be a mage. Also the lack of poise makes casting pyro hard as most pyro is close range, but I heard they are fixing poise soon:)
if you use a weapon you aren't a mage you stupid idiot
I'm not a ds3 player or anything, but I'm decent at analyzing and I must say that the meta for pyro seems broken from this video alone(as it's the only one I've seen anyway). What I mean is that black serpent which you say would be good to create distance is a throw away move in that you can just roll past it and looks more like you user should be running right behind it like it was a smoke screen as a mindgame tactic above anything else. The so stupid it works tactic is good with that smaller black fire move from what I saw. There's also the flame thrower as well and impact appears pointless as it's very visible on when it's coming out.
From what I see here, is 1 move that may be good, but too predictable to be viable unless to keep distance, a move used to create distance when it should be used for mindgames, one that is for immediate defense and one for close range counters(the flame thrower). Maybe there are other moves, and that lightning move and whip are also too predictable. What I see here is a nice balance of a mixed bag, but used incorrectly, and mostly a one trick pony for each attack.
Again, I've never played, but I'd do the serpent, run behind it and use the flamethrower, or the small fire burst, another serpent or whip attack. It looks like pyromancy is mostly for defense so I'd assume going offensive and using the flame thrower or fire burst as defense would be as viable as you can get. Or go from straight defense to offense and stop going for trades unless you can do massive amounts.
But don't expect much from this.
I think the fact that you versed the same people multiple times undermines your point a little, but your point still does stand strong.
PYRO OP
NERF PHLOG
demon scar and fan flame made pyromancy viable even further. really lets you mix it up a lot more
tbh spamming black serp into chaosV. combo is not the best way to use it, u can mix it up , anything with decent tracking works even some free aim, u can reverse step off black serp and go in for a demon fists wep art witch is pretty good with decent range as u spin 2 times and roll catching, the tailbone wep art is also decent ish if u can self aim it and there both pretty light along with witch locks.. u have 4 wep slots minus a pyro flame and parry tool :/ just throw out something they must avoid differently than b4 it works, u don't need to b 150 for the extra spell slots to mix up well, coz they will develop a habit when avoiding that sequence of spells/atts , u can mix it up in with some other stuff too and catch em out, u should not have a pattern or 2 u repeat over and over , same thing gets u killed with a melee build too.
and rele in like 10 duels, not 1 spell animation into a parry? not even a parry attempt O,o? he might b good at spacing and timings with his pyro but without the ability to parry he is already very limited imo. u did not have to learn to clock on to many of his mix ups simply coz he did not have many, or a parry to throw out when you are too predictable in turn. u can still get decent damage off a parry with just a back pocket dagger and at like no weight with a parry tool . when your opponent has to jump hoops thou rings of fire to get to you the att is often very ez to see coming AKA a simple parry. i cant help but think this guy has something against parry's , to never use one and only using unparryable stuff. coz if u don't have a way to punish some1 being predictable, you are skill capping yourself, and 100% not worth a trade for 30% EQ roll speeds, again imo.
>people defending pyromancies
To make it even worse on him you could have used a crossbow to simply cancel his casting animation for free damage, reducing him to mostly melee. Or beat out his black flame with a washing pole. The real problem with all casters in DS3 is that they can easily be countered so hard that their tools become glaringly inconsistent when the melee opponent has any experience vs them. And the caster has no such liberty vs any good melee user.
Pyro/miracle/sorcery work when you put a long sword or a fast swinging weapon in the right hand and a staff/talisman/pyrohand in the left. Basically have to have a respectable threat at close range and have some long/mid range spells and play mind games. GLHF.
a balanced game shouldn't require melee to work
At least Cinder didn't use her bow.
and then we got the demon's scar
with fire surge...
The pops are killing me, did you lose your filter? ;_;
Here after demon scar :/
Why don't more people use profaned flame? I just use it on people recovering and it knocks it them down then I just go and swing at them while they're getting up