My use case is simple, I'd love to move to flat burrs for more consistent espresso but hate putting my Niche Zero out to pasture when it still works. Seems wasteful. The plus of having the flexibility of switching between burrs is nice.
I see some Necessity Coffee on your shelf!! John is such an awesome dude! I used to hang out with him occasionally when he still lived here in AZ. I'm heading to San Diego in a couple weeks and I'm excited to stop bye and see his new shop. Also nice comparison on these!!
Thanks Aaron, and yeah John and Kurt at Necessity are solid folks and you won't be disappointed when you visit them. They are doing some of the most unique coffee stuff in San Diego currently.
It was on mind of many folks, and I think it sort of is exactly how many would assume, though it’s good to get it out there for those looking for answers.
Thank you for the video: very clear as usual. I am in the Polished camp at this stage of my life. I just want things that work well for their purpose and price point. Over 90% of my coffees are espresso and I can live with the Niche Zero for Aeropress brews (or breakout a hand grinder). Now, a Niche sourced conical kit ana flat burr set for longer coffee would be interesting. Thanks again !
You’re welcome Alan, and thanks for watching. I get that for a lot of folks a polished finish product is going to always win out. And yeah, I’m sure a lot will also be more comfortable with a Niche approved option, I’m sure they’ve looked at it. And I don’t think creating a conical option for the Duo would be that hard, and there are 83mm conicals out there from Mazzer.
I'm pretty sure that modding the Zero for flat burrs will shorten the life span of the motor that is intended for conical burrs. Although Niche do sell replacement motors at a reasonable price so it might be a price worth paying for some.
Sworks also sells a replacement motor with a higher speed and lifespan if it comes to that. I’ve been using the flat burrs now for about 6 months on it and haven’t noticed any issues so far, but considering the time it takes to grind in some cases there has to be some increased stress.
I have a Niche Zero and I just discovered that Gorilla Gear has a 63mm Kony burr replacement. I heard that it would improve the performance of the lighter roasts removing some harshness adding some clarity. Have you considered testing them out?
Thanks for this video I bought the mod and I very happy with. I was wondering if I was since the Duo come out. Anxiety event averted, I may purchase the Duo in future, thanks again for this.
Happy to help! And thank you for the Super Thanks tip, much appreciated. Even though the differences are relatively simple, and the big takeaway is a polished product vs a beta version, it’s worth saying. I think a lot of folks go down the bigger the burrs the better the coffee pipeline and I want to always push back on that narrative.
I haven’t tried that out yet, but I did chat with him about it when I mentioned my dial in difficulties with the mod and it sounds like it gives you a broader range.
@@Sprometheus of course, you have to be the modder type as you say, but I'm very happy with mine. I had to do the same sanding to get tolerances to work, did the motor replacement, and the new hopper means you have to override the lid-switch.
Great video! How would you compare the taste and texture of espresso between the nich duo and the DF83 in stock form - espresso Mazzer burrs vs ItalMil burrs - 530 rpms vs 1400 rpms. I'm currently undecided between the two grinders and since I'm based in the UK the price is very similar for both, so your feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks
Between these two grinders the main difference in the cup would be clarity and texture and that’s due to the burr speed. The slower and more accurately machined Mazzers in the Duo will produce more clarity and medium body due to a more consistent grind distribution. The DF83 with the italmils will produce more texture and complexity due to its higher speed which creates more fines.
@@Sprometheus If you want more fines, just use a Niche Zero. That comes with the price of narrowing the grind setting, extraction ratio, and extraction time, making getting a nice extraction a higher skill level with some beans.
The mod is for those like me who own a NZ and don't feel like going through the hassle of selling it to replace it with the ND but still want to try some flat burrs. I've enjoyed it, but agree the range is tight. I purchased the 54mm burrs from Malkhonig for their X54 hoping they would be better, but for some reason they don't grind at all in the flat burr mod.
I think some burrs are designed to spin on the opposite direction, the Mahlkonigs may be in that boat. If you email Sheldon and ask he may be able to clear that up, and if it is the case he can tell you how to reverse the polarity on your grinder. I think it’s a simple swap of wire placement on the grinder.
the biggest drawback for the flat burr mod for the niche zero is the fact that it spins in the opposite direction of the ditting steel burrs used in the Baratza grinders since those are among the best 54mm burrs out there and I think they'd do great in the niche zero platform
Yeah, that is an issue, but a smaller issue than you may imagine. From what I understand you can open up the niche and change the spinning direction by swapping a couple wires. I could be wrong, but I feel like Sheldon at Sworks mentioned this to me when I was looking at other burr options.
I'm more of a polished, finisher product fan.. I don't have the experience to intuit my way through a bunch of SNAFUs. That said, it makes me happy that there are multiple solutions available just because that's the planet I want to live on.
100% there’s room for lots of options and solutions out there. And I get your take too. I was never all that handy myself but after years of playing with grinders I’ve become a little more familiar with how to approach those SNAFUs as you put it.
I feel like the Niche Duo is easily one of the biggest flops in awhile for the equipment game. I feel like the way they rolled this out was so weird and it’s not a very impressive grinder considering the abundance of flat burrs that have already released before the Duo. I feel like it doesn’t help it looking almost identical to the NZ making it feel like such a lazy release.
I agree with all of that. It just didn’t hit the same way as the original in so many ways. I mean, it’s still a solid grinder, and. I’m with the single burr option it’s better, but it’s not in the top 10 of the flat burr grinders that have come out in the last couple of years and didn’t really bring anything new to the table, since any flat burr grinder can swap burrs.
For someone who ONLY makes filter coffee, the Duo is EXACTLY what we always wanted. A flat burr designed specially for filter only. Niche nailed it! There is NO reason for "innovation". They nailed it the first time. Love the design, love the workflow. It's simple and reliable. It just works. Many people love that.
I have the mod, but i have not been able to brew espresso with it. I have to go way pass the zero point a the burrs touch. Do you have any recommendations??
It really depends on your burrs. Los too the options I tested weren't really espresso capable, th only ones that worked consistently for espresso was the Faema 54s
I'm a few weeks into my new Duo and have a NZ as well. I expected that I would prefer the espresso from the Duo over The NZ and that is the case. I also like the pour over as well but its early days yet. If the Duo filter burrs eventually push me towards flats for pour overs, I'd be interested in a set for the NZ. My NZ is a 4 year old machine and using it for pour over coarse grinds should be kinder to its motor & gearbox. Lovin your work as always Spro👍
Thank you. Does the nich duo espresso taste like or better than the zero. I want to get it for espresso- milk based drinks mainly and espresso occasionally.
@@Sprometheus there are 83mm mazzer conicals... of course there's the matter of the hole in the middle but niche may already have this on this roadmap.
@@andrewwdouglas You can’t really make it work on something without variable RPM, conical RPM is truly to slow for flats and flat RPM is to high for conical, the Robur run at 420rpm and that is already on the high end, it notice improve running it considerably slower. On this it would probably be 500ish RPM that’s way to high for those burrs. Also grinders are designed with certain torque so putting vastly different burrs in is not that easy
That’s definitely one of the main selling points of the mod as well. And is quite a bit less expensive than buying the Duo, even now with the single burr option.
Bigger burrs do not grind faster because the chamber is bigger and you can fit more beans into it. It grinds faster because the cutting surface is bigger.
@@Sprometheus Ok maybe I understood it wrong. I thought you were not talking about the cutting area but about the hole in the middle of the burr. My bad :)
My use case is simple, I'd love to move to flat burrs for more consistent espresso but hate putting my Niche Zero out to pasture when it still works. Seems wasteful. The plus of having the flexibility of switching between burrs is nice.
I see some Necessity Coffee on your shelf!! John is such an awesome dude! I used to hang out with him occasionally when he still lived here in AZ. I'm heading to San Diego in a couple weeks and I'm excited to stop bye and see his new shop. Also nice comparison on these!!
Thanks Aaron, and yeah John and Kurt at Necessity are solid folks and you won't be disappointed when you visit them. They are doing some of the most unique coffee stuff in San Diego currently.
I thought I was the only one wondering about this comparison. Thanks!
It was on mind of many folks, and I think it sort of is exactly how many would assume, though it’s good to get it out there for those looking for answers.
Thank you for the video: very clear as usual. I am in the Polished camp at this stage of my life. I just want things that work well for their purpose and price point. Over 90% of my coffees are espresso and I can live with the Niche Zero for Aeropress brews (or breakout a hand grinder). Now, a Niche sourced conical kit ana flat burr set for longer coffee would be interesting. Thanks again !
You’re welcome Alan, and thanks for watching. I get that for a lot of folks a polished finish product is going to always win out. And yeah, I’m sure a lot will also be more comfortable with a Niche approved option, I’m sure they’ve looked at it. And I don’t think creating a conical option for the Duo would be that hard, and there are 83mm conicals out there from Mazzer.
I'm pretty sure that modding the Zero for flat burrs will shorten the life span of the motor that is intended for conical burrs. Although Niche do sell replacement motors at a reasonable price so it might be a price worth paying for some.
Sworks also sells a replacement motor with a higher speed and lifespan if it comes to that. I’ve been using the flat burrs now for about 6 months on it and haven’t noticed any issues so far, but considering the time it takes to grind in some cases there has to be some increased stress.
interesting, thoughtful topic and review as usual thanks
Thank you, I appreciate that, cheers!
I have a Niche Zero and I just discovered that Gorilla Gear has a 63mm Kony burr replacement. I heard that it would improve the performance of the lighter roasts removing some harshness adding some clarity. Have you considered testing them out?
Can't wait for a conical mod on the Duo to come out
That makes two of us!
Babe wake up, Spro just made another banger
Haha I hope you both enjoyed it! Have a great weekend.
Thanks for this video I bought the mod and I very happy with. I was wondering if I was since the Duo come out. Anxiety event averted, I may purchase the Duo in future, thanks again for this.
Happy to help! And thank you for the Super Thanks tip, much appreciated.
Even though the differences are relatively simple, and the big takeaway is a polished product vs a beta version, it’s worth saying. I think a lot of folks go down the bigger the burrs the better the coffee pipeline and I want to always push back on that narrative.
SWorks' precision hopper is a game changer for dialing in espresso with the flat burr kit.
I haven’t tried that out yet, but I did chat with him about it when I mentioned my dial in difficulties with the mod and it sounds like it gives you a broader range.
@@Sprometheus of course, you have to be the modder type as you say, but I'm very happy with mine. I had to do the same sanding to get tolerances to work, did the motor replacement, and the new hopper means you have to override the lid-switch.
Great video!
How would you compare the taste and texture of espresso between the nich duo and the DF83 in stock form - espresso Mazzer burrs vs ItalMil burrs - 530 rpms vs 1400 rpms.
I'm currently undecided between the two grinders and since I'm based in the UK the price is very similar for both, so your feedback would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Between these two grinders the main difference in the cup would be clarity and texture and that’s due to the burr speed.
The slower and more accurately machined Mazzers in the Duo will produce more clarity and medium body due to a more consistent grind distribution.
The DF83 with the italmils will produce more texture and complexity due to its higher speed which creates more fines.
Thanks @@Sprometheus
I have made my decision!
@@Sprometheus If you want more fines, just use a Niche Zero. That comes with the price of narrowing the grind setting, extraction ratio, and extraction time, making getting a nice extraction a higher skill level with some beans.
The mod is for those like me who own a NZ and don't feel like going through the hassle of selling it to replace it with the ND but still want to try some flat burrs. I've enjoyed it, but agree the range is tight. I purchased the 54mm burrs from Malkhonig for their X54 hoping they would be better, but for some reason they don't grind at all in the flat burr mod.
I think some burrs are designed to spin on the opposite direction, the Mahlkonigs may be in that boat. If you email Sheldon and ask he may be able to clear that up, and if it is the case he can tell you how to reverse the polarity on your grinder. I think it’s a simple swap of wire placement on the grinder.
the biggest drawback for the flat burr mod for the niche zero is the fact that it spins in the opposite direction of the ditting steel burrs used in the Baratza grinders since those are among the best 54mm burrs out there and I think they'd do great in the niche zero platform
Yeah, that is an issue, but a smaller issue than you may imagine. From what I understand you can open up the niche and change the spinning direction by swapping a couple wires. I could be wrong, but I feel like Sheldon at Sworks mentioned this to me when I was looking at other burr options.
Thank you my friend.
Of course! Thanks for watching, have a great weekend.
@@Sprometheus - You too. 👊🏻
I'm more of a polished, finisher product fan.. I don't have the experience to intuit my way through a bunch of SNAFUs. That said, it makes me happy that there are multiple solutions available just because that's the planet I want to live on.
100% there’s room for lots of options and solutions out there. And I get your take too. I was never all that handy myself but after years of playing with grinders I’ve become a little more familiar with how to approach those SNAFUs as you put it.
Thanks!
I feel like the Niche Duo is easily one of the biggest flops in awhile for the equipment game. I feel like the way they rolled this out was so weird and it’s not a very impressive grinder considering the abundance of flat burrs that have already released before the Duo. I feel like it doesn’t help it looking almost identical to the NZ making it feel like such a lazy release.
I agree with all of that. It just didn’t hit the same way as the original in so many ways. I mean, it’s still a solid grinder, and. I’m with the single burr option it’s better, but it’s not in the top 10 of the flat burr grinders that have come out in the last couple of years and didn’t really bring anything new to the table, since any flat burr grinder can swap burrs.
@@Sprometheuswould you advise to get DF83 v2 over Duo?
For someone who ONLY makes filter coffee, the Duo is EXACTLY what we always wanted. A flat burr designed specially for filter only. Niche nailed it! There is NO reason for "innovation". They nailed it the first time. Love the design, love the workflow. It's simple and reliable. It just works. Many people love that.
All that wants the niche zero is a new unimodal conical burrs, and it will transform it totally
I wonder if Niche got the idea from sWorks mod.
The Wug2 can swap between conical and flat. It doesn't get as much press though
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of it. I’ll have to look into it.
Any experience with SSP Burrs on the niche duo?
Who's got a Duo to loan out? Let's get a conical kit in there!
I’ll happily send you mine. I’ve got a box headed to you soon anyway. Haha
@@Sprometheus Let's do it! 😁
@@sworksdesign I send you a message when they are on their way, probably will be early next week.
@@Sprometheus Awesome. I hope to see this reverse mod materialize.
I have the mod, but i have not been able to brew espresso with it. I have to go way pass the zero point a the burrs touch. Do you have any recommendations??
It really depends on your burrs. Los too the options I tested weren't really espresso capable, th only ones that worked consistently for espresso was the Faema 54s
@@Sprometheus i have the faema, maybe it is just my luck. Will try again with different coffees
I'm a few weeks into my new Duo and have a NZ as well. I expected that I would prefer the espresso from the Duo over The NZ and that is the case. I also like the pour over as well but its early days yet.
If the Duo filter burrs eventually push me towards flats for pour overs, I'd be interested in a set for the NZ. My NZ is a 4 year old machine and using it for pour over coarse grinds should be kinder to its motor & gearbox.
Lovin your work as always Spro👍
Thank you. Does the nich duo espresso taste like or better than the zero. I want to get it for espresso- milk based drinks mainly and espresso occasionally.
1+ vote for a conical kit for the duo
I don’t think it would be too hard to do to be honest.
Would require burr run in same direction
@@Sprometheus there are 83mm mazzer conicals... of course there's the matter of the hole in the middle but niche may already have this on this roadmap.
Yup this would be cool
@@andrewwdouglas You can’t really make it work on something without variable RPM, conical RPM is truly to slow for flats and flat RPM is to high for conical, the Robur run at 420rpm and that is already on the high end, it notice improve running it considerably slower.
On this it would probably be 500ish RPM that’s way to high for those burrs.
Also grinders are designed with certain torque so putting vastly different burrs in is not that easy
the main issue is I have the old i dont want to buy a new one for have a flat
That’s definitely one of the main selling points of the mod as well. And is quite a bit less expensive than buying the Duo, even now with the single burr option.
☕☕☕
Love Is Important 💖 ❤💓
Indeed! Cheers my friend.
Bigger burrs do not grind faster because the chamber is bigger and you can fit more beans into it. It grinds faster because the cutting surface is bigger.
That’s literally just another way of saying exactly what I said. More area inside the burrs means more cutting area.
@@Sprometheus Ok maybe I understood it wrong. I thought you were not talking about the cutting area but about the hole in the middle of the burr. My bad :)
@@lucask4865 no worries, thanks for watching
every sentence the same intonation
It’s interesting you point that out, because every comment you’ve made on my channel has been the same as well.
@@Sprometheus lol, I like your intonation and style compared to some others.