The four variant civs feel like entirely different takes on how to make a "variant" of a civ. I suspect they tried out a different design philosophy with each one and are using this DLC as a sort of experiment to see which variant design will appeal to the playerbase the most.
Which isn't a bad way to go. What better way to get information on how people will end up using one than by throwing out what you got and seeing what sticks?
It’s not a bad idea, although I can understand why some people are upset. They’re essentially paying the devs to test something _for_ them. Doesn’t exactly show confidence for a game that already had a rough start.
I understand the idea behind the variation civs and I think it’s a good one. But I don’t get the choices at all. At least make it sensible. For France do something like the Angevine Empire. Or if you really want that gunpowder focus make it Burgundy. But a Joan of Arc civ? And for the HRE it could have been the Teutonic Order, or a specific duchy instead of a knightly order that barely did anything other than having a catchy name. And don’t get me started on the possibilities with the Chinese
I do wonder if with the Chinese Civ's having the various different dynasties as part of their core mechanics shot them in the foot regarding potential variants. Since if it wasn't for that each of these dynasties themselves would make a fairly good variant option.
I think it has an audience (15k players is nothing to sneeze at), but "The next great RTS" people were hoping it would be AoE4 was not. I'm not talking about the Age community, but the RTS group that seemingly flocks to every new RTS thinking it'll be the "esport" SC2 was has ruined every future RTS since. I enjoyed it, I loved the attention the campaign gave out (which is about all I play RTS for these days) so I hope this does well and I might give it a look in a few weeks. Heck I even reinstalled it to play the rest of the campaign but than I just played Return to Rome (which is better than AoE2 imo, but we won't see more DLC like that)
@@HistoricalWeapons your "historically accurate" went through the window the moment when Jeanne ride her steed with a bazooka killing hundreds of innocent villagers with holy wrath
Yeah, I'm getting the DLC. $242 MXN is very descent and AOE4 has become one of my stapple games to play and chill on my Xbox while I listen to music or a podcast...
The new mechanics experienced with these new civilisation looks nice ! I love how asymetrical civilisation allows for more creativity/diversity than AOE2 for exemple !
They look nice indeed, the asymetrical civilization design however does not necessarely allow for more creativity or diversity. Its just a different design approach, aom did it many many years ago and all games in the franchise are highly diverse and creative at the top level.
@@DukePegasusIF you are avarege joe playing video games aoe 2 civs comper to aoe 4 are just the same shit all over again look i have 700h on aoe 2 i was 1400 that isnt a lot but I know a bit and i can say aoe 4 civs are like rocket ships comper to aoe 2, by my humble opinion civs are GREAT why beacouse you have so many thiferent ways to play it compere to original and it isnt a just a upgrade you have a shit ton of down sides aswell
@@malylibi Im having a hard time trying to understand your response. But I suppose that I agree that for a new player these civs look a lot different than aoe2 civs, that's a result of the different design approach both developers used. I disagree on the other hand about the aoe4 civs allowing for more ways of playing, in fact I feel like having very unqiue civs with certain pros and cons often make for only a few ways of optimal play.
Abbasids have a bigger focus on infantry supported by cavalry, while ayyubids have it the other way around. Ayyubids don't have the infantry bonuses from Abbasids (boot camp, composite bows) that make Abbasids infantry stand out, or any of Abbasids house of wisdom techs for that matter, making their boom also substantially weaker (no fertile crescent and fresh foodstuffs)
@@nightraven2975 yes, when the femenis protagonist is a God with magical powers, JeannDarc was never a warrior, never carry a weapon, she inspired troops only.
It really feels like they couldn’t decide on a single approach for variant civs, so went for four completely different ones:- strict upgrade (Ayyubids) easy mode (Order of the Dragon) civ redesign (Zhu Xi) something radically different (Jeanne)
Seems like having more variety between civs is a core design philosophy for AOE4. These variants are a compromise with player demands for more civs, but they still tried to keep them as varied as possible.
ayyubids are not a strict upgrade, they are lacking like 2 thirds of the abbasid tech tree, their Eco is WAAAAAAY worse and so its their infantry, they got better siege and their cavalry is more flexible but it's also worse in some circustances
I feel like it's less "couldn't decide" and more "Want to test them all". This gives them a chance to see how each approach is received and how balancing them worked out.
The civ variants is a fantastic way to cheaply do "alternate civs", AoE4 has a way higher production cost than AoE2, completely different voice lines per civ per age, new models for each unit each age, buildings, music, everything. Civ Variants lets them make more "civs" without having to create entirely new asset sets
All this higher production value helps no one as it takes them longer to create content for and in the end does anyone really care that units speak differently each age? I'd much rather have less voice lines, no unique music in favor of a generic, very long soundtrack than all of this.
@@marcelo8405 And that's why you play AoE2, the beauty of the two games being so popular is that AoE2 is far more traditional as an RTS and AoE4 is more modern. Different people like different things, I for one love the immersion in brings and feel that AoE4 has a far less repetitive feel simply due to the artistic side of the experience. But of course, different strokes for different folks.
So modern, so modern that the units are ugly with modeling clay, so modern that the devs can't maintain coherence in the direction of the game: "we want aoe4 to be real so campaign will be more like a documentary", [the same devs ] "so take this joan d'arc Sub Civ that has a sword because she never used a sword in battle and she has magic too"
@@kraftyevan Nah, he's right. The development focus is placed in the wrong things with AoE4. I don't even find AoE4 more immersive. The UI is incredibly bland, the units and buildings have kitsch art, the details are missing.
This variants idea reminds me a lot of C&C Generals: Zero Hour. The base C&C Generals just had the 3 main factions (USA, China and Global Liberation Army), but the expansion added three 'Generals' to each faction which changed their tech trees, enhancing some existing units and adding new techs while removing others. For example, one GLA general was a stealth expert and could even make his buildings invisible unless an enemy was right next to it, but lost access to the faction's heavy tanks as they were slow and noisy. I think it's a good way to approach games like this where the factions are already very mechanically distinct. AoE 2 can support 45 civs because they all play the same way fundamentally, but AoE 4 would quickly run into a 'burden of knowledge' issue for players if it continued to release civs that were entirely unique from the ones we have already.
It's weird they try to make a rpg style gameplay for Jeanne but forgot to give her a banner. It's like creating a Musashi Miyamoto character in gmae but only give him one sword.
Ayyubids chage a lot from base abbasids, Abbasids are a civ focused on Eco booming with multiple TCs and a military focused on infantry while the Ayyubids are a more aggresive civ focused on cavalry and siege Ayyubids compared to abbasid are lacking: -Fresh Foodstuff: so no cheaper vills making their Multi TC Boom less viable -Fertile Cresent: so no cheaper farms, tc or resource dropp off building, again losing a lot of booming potential -military campus: no infantry with 15% more hp, their Ghulams are weaker than abbasids -preservation of knoledge: so no cheaper age ups and not cheaper tech -Grand Bazaar: so their traders generate 25% less resources -aggriculture: so worse farms -Composite Bows: so they Archers not only have less hp but way less attack speed -field hospital: no regeneration under keeps -spice trade: so 30% less gold from traders -improve prossesing: so their vills are in general worse at everything than the abbasid vills -cammel support: so all their infantry have less armor -prozelytization: so no convertions without relics -armored caravans: so their traders are weaker -free traders or free military units upon completing the Trade or Military Wing -Cammel Barding so their cammels are slower -cammel shields so their cammels are way weaker to melee attacks -cammel armor so their cammels are also weaker without infantry support (exclusive tech of the ayyubids) and their Golden Age is capped at 10% faster working vills instead of 20% like the abbasids
Not disagreeing with your overall point, but did your source for that info also give you the effect of all of their age up bonuses? Several of the things you mention are still present in a slightly different form. As a couple of examples, one of the culture wings lets advancing take 40% less time and costs 250 fewer resources, so the cheaper advancing is still there in a way, the economic growth wing going up to Age 3 gives you 8 free villagers, at least sort of comparable to fresh foodstuff, the trade wing gives you a unit called the atabeg that you can garrison in a building to increase trained unit HP by 20%, and they have a trade wing that works a little different than Abbasid trade bonuses but you end up in a similar spot as spice trade. Obviously you can't pick up every single wing in one game, but you also don't have to pay for any techs.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw yeah, i'm aware of the new age up options, but even when some effect are similar, they don't fully translate in a real game, beacuse Abbasid give you techs that last for all the game while Ayyubids are more of a one use effect, so Ayyubids get stronger power spikes than Abbasid and get them faster, while Abbasid Slowly ramp up throught the game for example, Abbasids have "Preservation of Knowledge" while Ayyubids have "Advancement". Preservation of Knorledge makes so once they research it for the rest of the game All techs and Age ups are 20% cheaper; while "Advancement" give you a Discount just for one of your Age ups and make you to age up faster, so is more of a one use thing that also block you of using the other Culture Wing Age up while Preservation of Knowledge just ramp up across the game and still allow you to benefit from the other Culture wing bonuses. similar thing with Economic Growth, on a vacuum the free 3/8/10 free vills is a very powerfull eco bonus, but you have to chose when to use it, because if you use it before imperial age then you don't get the extra 10% faster gather bonus, and anyway, in the short term 8 free vills will be outscaled by all the other eco beneffit that abbasid gets, it's not only the discount of fresh foodstuff but the cheaper TCs, the faster working farmers and the resources laster longer of improved proccesing. similar thing with the Atabeg when advancing with Advisors with the Ayyubids, they may grant 20% extra HP to the units trained on the building they are garrisoned, but you have a limited number of atabeg while military campus will affect all your infantry, and also you will get the extra attack speed for your arcers because you don't have to choose between one or the other Ayyubids feel like a more Agresive civ than Abbasid with bonuses that give you an instant effect at no cost but all of them have an oportunity cost attached to them; going Economic Growth in Feudal will give me 3 extra vills instantly, but that will be outscaled in the long term by the abbasid bonuses and also remove the ability to use industry later, while going eco wing with the abbasid in feudal allow me to have Fertile Cresent Now but i will also get the other tech later. the filosofy of being a faster civ also is reflected on their Army, with Ayyubids having better Cavalry options thanks to the versatility of the Desert Ridder, while abbasid focus more on a slower army of infantry units with more HP, armor and faster attacking archers
For somebody who plays regularly or have a bit of experience with aoe4 it's clear that these 2 civs are totally different. Let's accept SpiritofTheLaw opinion too... He is from a game that doesn't have that amount of uniqueness like aoe4... For him ayubbids=abba and for aoe4 players are different civs
Jeanne is a really cool idea. I like the concept of really focusing on a single focal point for the whole civ. Plays into a very devotional play style and has lotsof opportunities. You still have to play a full game of aoe4, so calling it an rpg for comparing it to a moba as somepeople have is way off base, she doesn't remove any strategy. She just shifts focus
Order of the Dragon sounds great for me, I love having a few elite units instead of a large army. I just wish tehy had removed the "super relic" mechanic for the HRE, because in teamgames its allways a point of conflict.
@JWonn in this dlc example the abyuid desert raider is a goblin spider rider. Joan plays like a bfme hero but is more accurate to say is a wc3 hero. Banner dudes in idea are there too but banner guys in bfme respawn lost squad members than provide buffs to an army.
@zonetropper Being able to switch between melee and ranged mode is something that was originally planned for Samurai in AoE2 but was scrapped, though the feature would return when Ratha were introduced. In AoE3 all gunpowder infantry & gunpowder cavalry can switch between ranged and melee modes. Gascenya (sp?) Also have this ability. As for Japanese Banner Units, the most obvious inspiration for this would be Indian Mansabdar Units in AoE3, which function exactly the same way.
@@tjember_ren1729 well, arrows shooting above target, then going 90 degrees downward looks like laziness to me. Even if they were guided, it looks like not enough effort.
@@tjember_ren1729 Well it wasn't by mistake lol. But the design choice had the following reason: subpar engine with no physics (thank Relic) and cheaper to develop. Show me a single person who doesn't love seeing the spears and arrows miss and stick into the ground? That's immersive af! This is a big downgrade.
Joan of Arc in real life: A pacifist who never directly engaged in combat herself, nor did she kill anyone. Joan of Arc in media: An over-the-top badass super warrior who can take on an army.
@@Vince120Dfgo didnt have much to do with the historical prototypes of badass half naked battle spirits that play key part in the story well, movies protagonists do neither, but fate kinda tell you straight about this. Human perception shifting appearance and abilities of the summoned dude and all that shit
If they makes an entirely new game worth of content, you can expect the game will come out in like 3-4 years from now or more. 😅 2 years from now would be 3 years in development and I don’t think they have a huge team for AOM.
The four variant civs seems like the variants in C&C: Zero Hour for each factions. Same unit & buildings with slight changes here and there and more specialize in something.
$15 is pretty good for all of that, although it does kinda sound like from other comments that you’re paying _them_ to test which types of variants are best. Still, you can’t go wrong with the Byzantines and Japanese to gain some popularity.
I mean, you're paying them for Byzantines, Japnese and maybe Ayyubids and Zhu Xi's, 15$ is a fair price for the quality delivered there. Order of the dragon seems like a nice feature for beginners/people who struggle with RTS, as you need less micromanagement for them. Not for everyone butnothing wrong with that. Only Jeanne-D'arc seems trluy expeirmental but I mean... No one's forcing you to play it. They already gave you your money's worth the the other four.
That's a weird way of looking at it. These civ variants are incredibly unique and will be great for single player. The French one is almost like playing a Moba. The HRE one with few but powerful units feeds a different type of player fantasy. The Chinese one is like playing Zerg with the flexibility Imperial Officials give you. Not to mention variants making it easier to main multiple civs by having very similar mechanics as compared to the main civs that are all very different. So you're not paying them to test anything, you're getting a lot of varied and interesting play styles for very cheap.
This was awesome man, thanks. I watch pro AoE2 but play AoE4. This video summarized everything nicely and gave me a better understanding of what’s coming (because man there’s a lot.)
@@stancastan5926 Ai impresia ca daca sunt din Romania amandoi vorbim pakistaneza? Uita-te la videoclip, si cauta in DEX definitia cuvantului "sarcasm".
They've took this concept directly from 2008's Command and Conquer 3 - Kane's Wrath expansion. The expansion pack has introduced two subfactions for each existing faction, adding more variety to the game.
Nice point. And perhaps that derived from C&C Generals: Zero Hour - a system weirdly missing from the base game, despite the naming. Really makes you question probable pressure from EA to hit a release date. It would explain the vapid feeling campaigns.
Rare and authentic Byzantine olive oil produced nowhere else in those times... I don't know how the swords-for-hire used olive oil besides adding flavour to their salads, sautéing and frying foods, mixing it in cauldrons of defensive boiling oil, having masseurs apply it on their bodies...
Its a luxury product. Basically shitton of money in a portable form. Its not really easy to bring your salary home when you are high payed mercenary and this is pretty heavy amount of gold, while barrel of oil can worth the same yet weight less. Althrough mercenary must be sure that he can sell that oil for a good price at home, so no Conans-Barbarians for oil
I can't wait to play the french Jeanne of arc , byzantin and japanese. They look super fun to play with a lot of replayability. Also, i'm pleasantly surprised that the DLC really make AOE4 a really distinct game from AOE2 . Now you really can feel the difference and i hope will attract different (and more) kind of players.
ChillyEmpire, Age of Noob, Drongo, BeastqtSC2, etc. giving the Relic Ent-made game attention and publicity, and perhaps you should have the same initiative as them
@@royasturias1784 How am i gonna help the game with 0 people that know about me, watch me, or want to watch me. I am mediocre at the game, analysts like Spirit of the Law or Age Of Noob take more than good enough care of that stuff.
I love your videos and I've watched all of them for *years* now - so I was super happy to see you cover AoE4 for a change. It's really underrated and for me it's incredibly fun to play some 2v2 matches after I get home from work each day. For me AoE4 hits just the right mix of being easy to play but with tons and tons of depth. However, you make it abundantly clear that you really *REALLY* just don't like the game, which is a bummer but I guess it can't be helped. The funny part is that the marketing people who gave you access probably thought "SotL is a great guy and he loves AoE - surely he'll be excited by all of the varied new content! He might just comment on how much we steadily improved the game in the past years. This will be great!" ... and then the *actual* review ends up being: "Meh, maybe some weirdos will like it. Anyways, off to play some AoE 2 custom games *drops mic*". XD
He gave it a B+, I think that was pretty fair. Maybe it ended on a bit of a sour note but I think that the overall preview was positive and he said this is exactly what AoE4 needs.
We must not have watched the same video. This video was well researched and well produced, super informative with some thoughtful opinions. On par for SotL. A bit summarized, but we can look forward to more in depth content from Age of Noob and others.
Spirit made quite possibly the most objective review one can make, there was no bias, he's simply pointing out areas that could use some improvement where it makes sense to, praises what is decent and comments on more devisive parts of the dlc, all other creators i checked on are really biased one way or another, or downright neglecting certain things while overemphasising others
@@Mythic1560 I agree that SotL was fair. All I said is that he obviously isn't into it. AoE4 was a buggy mess the last time he did any video about it. Now it's freaking good (and the version he got to play has even more improvements that the public hasnÄ't played with yet, like the improved wall system. A fair review doesn't have to mention any of this, but if he liked the game, there would be no reason not to.
Very historically accurate Byzantines especially during their later period where the Empire relied more and more on mercenaries. Cant wait to play as them. Japanese looks cool as hell too with the samurai.
I think the reason why the variants wernt the templars/hospitalers/Teutonics/Turks/Ayuubids was becuase some executive was like 'nah we can't be Eurocentric, gotta be half western and half eastern, which is why they didn't go all in on the crusader theme
Not sure why we call these unique units "themed reskins"? They're just as unique as any other unique units in AoE2 or 4. Why would a Cataphract here be a "themed reskin" when it's more unique than it's AoE2 equivalent which we call a unique unit?
AoE 2's unique units work different as they don't replace regular units but instead are supposed to be.. unique which is why they're often locked behind a castle.
@@camroth89 I get what you say. I said often, not always :p I'm aware that we've got a few UUs outside the castle such as Shrivamsha, Longboat, Missionary etc. but most of the time, they're made in the castle
Seeing the knights templar and knights hospitaller in the campaign but not used for a civ seems like a waste of unique unit designs someone spent time on that your only going to see in certain missions. It hurts especially when the whole theme the dlc was supposed to revolve around the crusades with the byzantines and ayyubids atleast making sense.
Damn, I wanted my Teutonic Knights. Although, Order of the Dragon does run a theme and style that I like; Black steel, super quality force! Jeanne d'arc is kinda weird.....Cannon master/civil construction engineer/ mongol archer knight/she doesn't die when she is killed, seems like something I'd expect from the Fate series version of her. Hopefully everything works out, as I like the direction they are going. ....and if I'm lucky, maybe I can get my Teutonic Knights.....on horses!
It reminds me of Czech translation of Canons of the Holy Sepulchre into Artillerymen of t. H.S. M2TW. Missing those knightly orders is imo massive, yet game equipment looks like mostly 16th century.
This is like Generals from C&C! Good addition to the series. Or as Commanders from coop mode of Starcraft 2, particularly reminded me because SC 2 also have Commanders that turn game into rpg instead of rts 😂
Okay, I think the "olive oil buys mercenaries" thing is a way to show how valuable oil was, but still, it kind of looks ridiculous. Imagine some two metres tall landsknecht just refusing a pile of gold and instead demanding a barrel of oil.
8:50 Jeanne d’Arc as an archer??? I guess Age of Empires goes full fiction again, although presenting itself as "historical". Though remembered as a fearless warrior and considered a heroine of the Hundred Years' War between France and England, *Jeanne never actually fought in battle or killed anybody* . Instead, she would accompany her men as a sort of inspirational mascot, brandishing her banner in place of a weapon.
@@PurpleWarlockOh bullshit. It's set in the real world, in a real time frame, using real nations, real unit names, real technologies. It has campaigns which are about real people and conflicts, using documentary style cutscenes. They advertise it as having "historical battles", they constantly refer to the real life achievements of civilizations. "The past is prologue as you are immersed in a rich historical setting..." - straight from steam. Sorry, I'm really tired of people pretending that games that are showcasing history don't need to be realistic. If you don't want to make a realistic game, don't market it as real history, or better yet, don't set it in the real world.
Man I wish instead of Jeanne D Arc we would have got Baldwin IV with the civ being called Kingdom of Jerusalem it would've fit so much better with the theme of the campaign the dlc is going for. Hell the aesthetic alone would be way more badass his bodyguards being templars or hospitallers whether on foot or horse and his final level him being carried around on his bed doing his best to lead and support his army. Miss opportunities for a very unique looking variant civ with a combination of European and Middle Eastern architecture. It hurts especially since I just found out the campaign has templars and hospitallers unit models that are only in the new campaign and didn't use them for a variant civ.
@@AaronRohan while it sounds unrealistic it's true that in he had to be carried around as his leprosy had gotten too severe but continued to lead until his death. If he was in the game as a civ I would imagine he would be leaning more towards a strictly support role.
The jeanne d'arc civ looks really cool. I started playing RTS games with starcraft and age of empires, but kinda missed the whole warcraft series. That civ looks almost like what I understand warcraft to be, like a age of empires game but with a hero you have to level with special abilities. I like that aoe4 seems to be aiming for more distinct civ identities than in aoe2 (at least as aoe2 was before some of the recent dlcs).
I've played a looot of command and conquer red alert 3 back in the days, and many of these features remind me of that game. Units disguising themselves and heroes. Area of effect bonuses units and so on. I'm curious if the game developers got inspired by the franchise
Why are AoE2 and AoE4 fan bases so divided? Can't we just live in peace and harmony with each other and accept that each game has its unique strengths and weaknesses?
Short summary: - At AoE 4's release, some AoE 2 fans acted needlessly stupid and aggresive towards AoE 4 and its players - Meanwhile, things have flipped a bit and AoE 4 fans are acting in the same stupid way and there's a common theme of justifying AoE 4's existence by saying it's "more unique" than AoE 2 (and no, I don't mean that negative, that's just an observation I made)
@@FloosWorld_AoE I agree. The arguments that I hear are also all the same. Arguments of AoE4 players are always Aoe2 has old graphics, cis are all too similar, not that historically accurate. On the other hand AoE2 fans always say about AoE4 that the campaigns are neglected, too cartoonish graphics, too little civs. (Any other arguments I forgot?) So it seems to me that every game has its own niche attracting its own niche players. No reason to act like a child and hate on the other game. We are all one big AoE family after all ;)
@@andreicristian9575 Well, they didn't switch at all because they were still playing AoE 2 at that time. They're also Content Creators so they want to check out the new thing. I assume Viper playing some AoM as well once Retold is out.
@@FloosWorld_AoE yeah, I played Aoe 2 a lot, esp since the Definitive Edition. Even if new DLC keeps coming, I feel the mechanics of the game have been “solved”. The interests are still there but not exciting anymore (for me). Aoe4 fills this gap and I think sky is the limit to experiment with this game.
If they reintroduce melee weapons for archers when they get hit by melee weapon, that would be quite something. Before AoE4 release it was there, I think campaign had it still.
I think they should focus on new factions not like adding variatio. factions for existing ones. It’s strange crusaders don’t get a faction but I guess that would be France anyway. They could have added Spain, Venice, Papal States, Poland, Scotland, Portugal etc…. Im glad Japan and Byzantines were added as well as ottomans recently.
Yeah they should have kept some of the civs for later, Order of the Dragon works with the crusade Campaigns but France could have gotten the Knights Hospitaller or the Knights Templar and HRE could have gotten the Teutonic Order, since they were baltic you could have given Russia the Jomsvikings, it could also fit to the HRE as they were mercenaries that fought for anyone regardless of faith if they payed good money. The Russians could also get the Kievan Rus or if you want to stretch a bit, make them Varangians.
Novgorod. Rus must receive Novgorod as alt civ, with focus on trade, sea and maybe some raider/outlaw units. Maybe bounty busting gold production instead of food. Maybe ability to refund some pricey upgrades/change between several global buffs, as mechanic based on fact that Novgorod Veche (meeting of people to vote about important questions) and Boyars are called and expelled Princes as they like, based on their performance as rulers and military leaders, which is pretty unique for that time
The editor is really unfortunate because I was trying to see if I could find anything formula related to trade, but a lot of the interesting variables and formulas are just outright locked out of the editor, or left in uninitialized hook states where the game engine is clearly able to utilize them but its just a zero on the user end. Like cool, I can see trader gold is a floating point variable, but I did for a day or two and couldn't see where or how it was getting assigned.
Hmm, still think that Age of Mythologies did a better job in making interesting variants of the same faction... and also having variation while in the game itself. Well, AgE III also had its different options when going up an age and the hometown skill card system as well.
@@Anttown123 It's probably a question of what someone personally imagine a "variant" should be. Should they feel totally different? Or just slightly nick a notch? I feel like AoM meet the sweet spot of being different to play around different strategies, but not too different to make me learn something totally new and different. For AoE4, it seems to me it goes overboard or feels flat? Maybe over time when more Civs have variants with similar mechanics and gives more freedom of choice I feel different about it.
I really dont understand the whole concept of adding civs that we would like to see in game in the campaign, as mentioned at the end of the video. If they were going the variant civs route, i wouldve loved to see the teutons as the variant civ for hre, and the norse as the variant civ for either English or Rus.
Byzantines and Japanese are very good picks for new civs, probably most requested. But the variant civs... I like the idea but they have been chosen very poorly. For France it could have been Burgundy or the knight's templar. For the HRE it should have been the Teutonic order, which would tie into that crusader theme as well. For China it could have involved a dynasty that was not against shaolin monks.
If only this game didn't have weird input lag/stutter. I can't imagine how good it would be if it's crisp like sc2 or aoe2. Even cursor moves like a grandpa.
If there's lag or stutter it's on your end. Or you may just be referring to and exaggerating the effect of the tick rate, which is lower in AoE4, so definitely not as snappy as SC or AoE2 (although pathing is 100 times better than AoE2).
@@camroth89 i don't really know how to explain it. Maybe it's not called input lag but i feel weird non fluid movement in whole game. I've played it on quite a few different devices and locations. I don't think it's related to these.
@@dr.ozanoztavli Yeah I get what you mean. All units in AoE 4 seem to have a noticable input delay which can be especially seen when you spam right click.
So far I like how everything is besides the French variant. It feels like just an upgrade to France . Faster villagers is pretty much the only bonus France has which I’ve noticed . Oh and keep influence but Joan’s ability is just a better version so
Villager advantage vs Hero unit make you play a completely different style. When you play with the hero unit you have to focus on leveling it, instead of focusing on macro play. It's a completely different play style.
I was hyped when this game was released in 2021, then i got dissapointed :/ HOWEVER, NOW, i came back and It really looks like DEVS have put more love into it :3 Im playing again learning civs, i hope to jump soon to ranked games, pls try to give it a chance now SOTL, regards.
I really like most of the expansions additions tbh, and I think I like Joan of Arc *if* this doesn't become the standard template for all variant civs going forward. In a year or two, 3 "Hero" focused variants amidst a sea of "Normal" civilizations would be a fun balance to maintain.
8:20 isnt it the attack increase 20% so 1.2 instead of 1.25? And in other news, i'm a bit disappointed on the order of the dragon, you gave some example of stats in early game i believe, i hope in imperial age it's better, since the fact that they cost twice as much population means they need to have twice the hp AND twice the attack (rather damage, but similar), of normal units, if they were the same pop they would only need to have twice hp OR twice attack (damage), (or a combination of both, like x1.4142 HP and atk) because they already cost twice, so in early game would underperform but in late game would be the same, or better if the cuadratic product would be more than twice (as it should be). PD: Seems like in this game Japanese would not longer be your fav as you said byzantines were your fav 😢
You pulled alot of punches on that joan review lol. But the subtle cut at the end calling it more of an rpg with some aoe happening in the background was a powerful blow despite it's subtlety
There is a subtle passive-aggressiveness in his review of this DLC, right down to the B+ rating for a DLC that's 2x or 3x richer than any AoE2 DLC at the same price.
@@andreicristian9575 I play both, but when it comes to Sultans or Mountain Royals for the same price point, I know which I'll be getting, as I feel I'm getting more bang for my buck.
Seems like a load of content, and the civs are both really interesting and unique. The variants for the most part seem pretty cool too (albeit in dire need of some nerfing), with the exception of Jeanne D'Arc which seems like a pretty big misstep, but 5/6 ain't bad. Honestly a great DLC.
I actually like the sounds of the Jeanne D'Arc mechanic more than I thought. Also I think they didn't go with a strict crusader theme as it would otherwise feel too similar
Spirit of the Law: B+ Sales Figures: The best-selling expansion in Age franchise history Reality: The Byzantine civ alone has more interesting mechanics than all of the AOE2 expansions combined.
The four variant civs feel like entirely different takes on how to make a "variant" of a civ. I suspect they tried out a different design philosophy with each one and are using this DLC as a sort of experiment to see which variant design will appeal to the playerbase the most.
Which isn't a bad way to go. What better way to get information on how people will end up using one than by throwing out what you got and seeing what sticks?
The great thing is, even though they are "only variant" civs, they are so different they are more than aoe2 civs in how much they are different.
It’s not a bad idea, although I can understand why some people are upset. They’re essentially paying the devs to test something _for_ them.
Doesn’t exactly show confidence for a game that already had a rough start.
@@Davtwan this dlc has 2+4 civs. And is only 15 dollars with campaign. This argument has no weight
I hope AoE 4 even gets another DLC
Age of empires 4 is a really good game - i would love to see more coverage of that game too.
It's an embarrasement actually.
Former embarrassment, basically all issues at launch are gone and the competitive scene is bigger than ever@@HorseshitDetectionAgency
@@HorseshitDetectionAgency how?
@@HorseshitDetectionAgency how?
did you push your glasses onto your nose when you said that? @@HorseshitDetectionAgency
I understand the idea behind the variation civs and I think it’s a good one. But I don’t get the choices at all. At least make it sensible. For France do something like the Angevine Empire. Or if you really want that gunpowder focus make it Burgundy. But a Joan of Arc civ? And for the HRE it could have been the Teutonic Order, or a specific duchy instead of a knightly order that barely did anything other than having a catchy name. And don’t get me started on the possibilities with the Chinese
yeah the joan of arc thing seemed like a crackpot idea that was just made into it
The concept of landmarks and variation civs is the best compromise of aoe3 and c&c mechanics for some spice
I do wonder if with the Chinese Civ's having the various different dynasties as part of their core mechanics shot them in the foot regarding potential variants. Since if it wasn't for that each of these dynasties themselves would make a fairly good variant option.
@zaleost They could have done a variant civ based on, Koxinga, the Chinese Pirate-King responsible for founding Taiwan.
Shoulda just use all the crusade factions and problem solved
the shinobi works exactly how i expected them to work, which is exactly like spies work in the red alert games, i love that.
This mechanic is borrowed from Stronghold 2 Where the Thief there looks like a villager for the opponent and can steal money from the Treasury.
I mean they are master ninjas. They are good at this
I wonder how sniping of landmarks with them will be viable, they are stealthy and have anti building ability, sounds like hard to stop.
They are more like a combination of spies and Tanya.
Now we need kennels and dogs!
Thanks for covering this, Spirit. I'm looking forward to this DLC.
Aoe4 is underrated
How?
It's not underrated. AoE 2 is just 100 times better, that's all.
@@Hovezipwn aoe4 is more historically accurate
I think it has an audience (15k players is nothing to sneeze at), but "The next great RTS" people were hoping it would be AoE4 was not. I'm not talking about the Age community, but the RTS group that seemingly flocks to every new RTS thinking it'll be the "esport" SC2 was has ruined every future RTS since. I enjoyed it, I loved the attention the campaign gave out (which is about all I play RTS for these days) so I hope this does well and I might give it a look in a few weeks.
Heck I even reinstalled it to play the rest of the campaign but than I just played Return to Rome (which is better than AoE2 imo, but we won't see more DLC like that)
@@HistoricalWeapons your "historically accurate" went through the window the moment when Jeanne ride her steed with a bazooka killing hundreds of innocent villagers with holy wrath
I actually love both games, cool to see you covering it.
the Biz and Japanese were more different than i had expected.
Yeah, I'm getting the DLC. $242 MXN is very descent and AOE4 has become one of my stapple games to play and chill on my Xbox while I listen to music or a podcast...
The new mechanics experienced with these new civilisation looks nice !
I love how asymetrical civilisation allows for more creativity/diversity than AOE2 for exemple !
They look nice indeed, the asymetrical civilization design however does not necessarely allow for more creativity or diversity. Its just a different design approach, aom did it many many years ago and all games in the franchise are highly diverse and creative at the top level.
@@DukePegasusIF you are avarege joe playing video games aoe 2 civs comper to aoe 4 are just the same shit all over again look i have 700h on aoe 2 i was 1400 that isnt a lot but I know a bit and i can say aoe 4 civs are like rocket ships comper to aoe 2, by my humble opinion civs are GREAT why beacouse you have so many thiferent ways to play it compere to original and it isnt a just a upgrade you have a shit ton of down sides aswell
@@malylibi Im having a hard time trying to understand your response.
But I suppose that I agree that for a new player these civs look a lot different than aoe2 civs, that's a result of the different design approach both developers used.
I disagree on the other hand about the aoe4 civs allowing for more ways of playing, in fact I feel like having very unqiue civs with certain pros and cons often make for only a few ways of optimal play.
Chess VS Checkers. One has a greater variety of tools and the other one has mostly the same tools between all civs.
@@franciscomelendeze I guess thats a simplified but valid and good comparison :)
Abbasids have a bigger focus on infantry supported by cavalry, while ayyubids have it the other way around. Ayyubids don't have the infantry bonuses from Abbasids (boot camp, composite bows) that make Abbasids infantry stand out, or any of Abbasids house of wisdom techs for that matter, making their boom also substantially weaker (no fertile crescent and fresh foodstuffs)
The support of the game is really good. Hyped for the new civs!
Jeanne d'Arc civ feels so weird, to be honest, but I LOVE Japanese and Byzantines, also Zhu Xi's Legacy and Order of the Dragon seems pretty fun
Jeanne is so overtuned that it looks more and more like playing DOTA.
@@Shoord No it's more like playing Warcraft 3. Which, despite the hero mechanics, is still classified as an RTS.
Jean D'Arc is trash, I am not sure if I will get the expansion, looking. At that MOBA hero is cancer, is a feminism push
@@diego2817including a historically accurate/real female character is a feminism push?
@@nightraven2975 yes, when the femenis protagonist is a God with magical powers, JeannDarc was never a warrior, never carry a weapon, she inspired troops only.
It really feels like they couldn’t decide on a single approach for variant civs, so went for four completely different ones:-
strict upgrade (Ayyubids)
easy mode (Order of the Dragon)
civ redesign (Zhu Xi)
something radically different (Jeanne)
Seems like having more variety between civs is a core design philosophy for AOE4. These variants are a compromise with player demands for more civs, but they still tried to keep them as varied as possible.
ayyubids are not a strict upgrade, they are lacking like 2 thirds of the abbasid tech tree, their Eco is WAAAAAAY worse and so its their infantry, they got better siege and their cavalry is more flexible but it's also worse in some circustances
I feel like it's less "couldn't decide" and more "Want to test them all". This gives them a chance to see how each approach is received and how balancing them worked out.
ORRRR, they wanted to fulfill different player fantasies with each civ and reach as many different player types as possible. Shocking I know.
Frankly, I am okay with whatever you wanna cover, Spirit!
The civ variants is a fantastic way to cheaply do "alternate civs", AoE4 has a way higher production cost than AoE2, completely different voice lines per civ per age, new models for each unit each age, buildings, music, everything. Civ Variants lets them make more "civs" without having to create entirely new asset sets
All this higher production value helps no one as it takes them longer to create content for and in the end does anyone really care that units speak differently each age? I'd much rather have less voice lines, no unique music in favor of a generic, very long soundtrack than all of this.
@@marcelo8405 And that's why you play AoE2, the beauty of the two games being so popular is that AoE2 is far more traditional as an RTS and AoE4 is more modern. Different people like different things, I for one love the immersion in brings and feel that AoE4 has a far less repetitive feel simply due to the artistic side of the experience. But of course, different strokes for different folks.
So modern, so modern that the units are ugly with modeling clay, so modern that the devs can't maintain coherence in the direction of the game: "we want aoe4 to be real so campaign will be more like a documentary", [the same devs ] "so take this joan d'arc Sub Civ that has a sword because she never used a sword in battle and she has magic too"
@kraftyevan not that modern considering AoE4 looks, sounds and plays worse than AoE3 which was released almost 2 decades ago
@@kraftyevan Nah, he's right. The development focus is placed in the wrong things with AoE4. I don't even find AoE4 more immersive. The UI is incredibly bland, the units and buildings have kitsch art, the details are missing.
I'm sorry, what was that? You kind of just glossed over the Japanese Town Center upgrades because WAS THAT A +75% BONUS FARMING RATE?
Japanese macro is really wild
This variants idea reminds me a lot of C&C Generals: Zero Hour. The base C&C Generals just had the 3 main factions (USA, China and Global Liberation Army), but the expansion added three 'Generals' to each faction which changed their tech trees, enhancing some existing units and adding new techs while removing others. For example, one GLA general was a stealth expert and could even make his buildings invisible unless an enemy was right next to it, but lost access to the faction's heavy tanks as they were slow and noisy.
I think it's a good way to approach games like this where the factions are already very mechanically distinct. AoE 2 can support 45 civs because they all play the same way fundamentally, but AoE 4 would quickly run into a 'burden of knowledge' issue for players if it continued to release civs that were entirely unique from the ones we have already.
I would like to be able to play C&C Generals again
@@VdWck Afaik EA still sells the *The First Decade* collection on EA App (formerly known as Origin) which should include Generals
It's weird they try to make a rpg style gameplay for Jeanne but forgot to give her a banner. It's like creating a Musashi Miyamoto character in gmae but only give him one sword.
Ayyubids chage a lot from base abbasids, Abbasids are a civ focused on Eco booming with multiple TCs and a military focused on infantry while the Ayyubids are a more aggresive civ focused on cavalry and siege
Ayyubids compared to abbasid are lacking:
-Fresh Foodstuff: so no cheaper vills making their Multi TC Boom less viable
-Fertile Cresent: so no cheaper farms, tc or resource dropp off building, again losing a lot of booming potential
-military campus: no infantry with 15% more hp, their Ghulams are weaker than abbasids
-preservation of knoledge: so no cheaper age ups and not cheaper tech
-Grand Bazaar: so their traders generate 25% less resources
-aggriculture: so worse farms
-Composite Bows: so they Archers not only have less hp but way less attack speed
-field hospital: no regeneration under keeps
-spice trade: so 30% less gold from traders
-improve prossesing: so their vills are in general worse at everything than the abbasid vills
-cammel support: so all their infantry have less armor
-prozelytization: so no convertions without relics
-armored caravans: so their traders are weaker
-free traders or free military units upon completing the Trade or Military Wing
-Cammel Barding so their cammels are slower
-cammel shields so their cammels are way weaker to melee attacks
-cammel armor so their cammels are also weaker without infantry support (exclusive tech of the ayyubids)
and their Golden Age is capped at 10% faster working vills instead of 20% like the abbasids
Not disagreeing with your overall point, but did your source for that info also give you the effect of all of their age up bonuses? Several of the things you mention are still present in a slightly different form. As a couple of examples, one of the culture wings lets advancing take 40% less time and costs 250 fewer resources, so the cheaper advancing is still there in a way, the economic growth wing going up to Age 3 gives you 8 free villagers, at least sort of comparable to fresh foodstuff, the trade wing gives you a unit called the atabeg that you can garrison in a building to increase trained unit HP by 20%, and they have a trade wing that works a little different than Abbasid trade bonuses but you end up in a similar spot as spice trade. Obviously you can't pick up every single wing in one game, but you also don't have to pay for any techs.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw yeah, i'm aware of the new age up options, but even when some effect are similar, they don't fully translate in a real game, beacuse Abbasid give you techs that last for all the game while Ayyubids are more of a one use effect, so Ayyubids get stronger power spikes than Abbasid and get them faster, while Abbasid Slowly ramp up throught the game
for example, Abbasids have "Preservation of Knowledge" while Ayyubids have "Advancement". Preservation of Knorledge makes so once they research it for the rest of the game All techs and Age ups are 20% cheaper; while "Advancement" give you a Discount just for one of your Age ups and make you to age up faster, so is more of a one use thing that also block you of using the other Culture Wing Age up while Preservation of Knowledge just ramp up across the game and still allow you to benefit from the other Culture wing bonuses.
similar thing with Economic Growth, on a vacuum the free 3/8/10 free vills is a very powerfull eco bonus, but you have to chose when to use it, because if you use it before imperial age then you don't get the extra 10% faster gather bonus, and anyway, in the short term 8 free vills will be outscaled by all the other eco beneffit that abbasid gets, it's not only the discount of fresh foodstuff but the cheaper TCs, the faster working farmers and the resources laster longer of improved proccesing.
similar thing with the Atabeg when advancing with Advisors with the Ayyubids, they may grant 20% extra HP to the units trained on the building they are garrisoned, but you have a limited number of atabeg while military campus will affect all your infantry, and also you will get the extra attack speed for your arcers because you don't have to choose between one or the other
Ayyubids feel like a more Agresive civ than Abbasid with bonuses that give you an instant effect at no cost but all of them have an oportunity cost attached to them; going Economic Growth in Feudal will give me 3 extra vills instantly, but that will be outscaled in the long term by the abbasid bonuses and also remove the ability to use industry later, while going eco wing with the abbasid in feudal allow me to have Fertile Cresent Now but i will also get the other tech later.
the filosofy of being a faster civ also is reflected on their Army, with Ayyubids having better Cavalry options thanks to the versatility of the Desert Ridder, while abbasid focus more on a slower army of infantry units with more HP, armor and faster attacking archers
For somebody who plays regularly or have a bit of experience with aoe4 it's clear that these 2 civs are totally different. Let's accept SpiritofTheLaw opinion too... He is from a game that doesn't have that amount of uniqueness like aoe4... For him ayubbids=abba and for aoe4 players are different civs
@@norbertcsiszer8612It's just funny because Abbasids and Ayyubids are probably more different than any 2 AoE2 civs are from each other ha.
@@camroth89 That's all I can ever think.
Honestly, AoE4 is shaping up nicely.
Jeanne is a really cool idea. I like the concept of really focusing on a single focal point for the whole civ. Plays into a very devotional play style and has lotsof opportunities. You still have to play a full game of aoe4, so calling it an rpg for comparing it to a moba as somepeople have is way off base, she doesn't remove any strategy. She just shifts focus
It sounds fun to try, if anything it reminds me of Warcraft 3 heroes rather than something like heroes of might and magic or something
Need a light.- Byzantines
Order of the Dragon sounds great for me, I love having a few elite units instead of a large army.
I just wish tehy had removed the "super relic" mechanic for the HRE, because in teamgames its allways a point of conflict.
For those who don't know this character : Johan of Arc was a French Sultan during the crusades. She was also the inventor of gunpowder.
Lol
The amount of ideas AOE4 took from the LOTR the Rise of the Witch King is crazy. The devs must be fans of the game.
Like what? I never played it.
Подскажи пожалуйста какие? Я играл только в оригинальный lotr 2.
@JWonn in this dlc example the abyuid desert raider is a goblin spider rider. Joan plays like a bfme hero but is more accurate to say is a wc3 hero. Banner dudes in idea are there too but banner guys in bfme respawn lost squad members than provide buffs to an army.
Joan reminds me of the AoE 3 explorer
@zonetropper Being able to switch between melee and ranged mode is something that was originally planned for Samurai in AoE2 but was scrapped, though the feature would return when Ratha were introduced. In AoE3 all gunpowder infantry & gunpowder cavalry can switch between ranged and melee modes. Gascenya (sp?) Also have this ability.
As for Japanese Banner Units, the most obvious inspiration for this would be Indian Mansabdar Units in AoE3, which function exactly the same way.
Didnt care about AO4 till they announced Japanese, will be playing when DLC comes out.
The most overrated one probably
I actually prefer AOE4 to AOE2 I wish the ranged units used a physics system like 2 but I think 4 has more creative civs and a better meta.
AoE 4 devs were extra lazy with at least knowing how real trajectories look.
@@cdgncgn Its a design choice
@@tjember_ren1729 well, arrows shooting above target, then going 90 degrees downward looks like laziness to me. Even if they were guided, it looks like not enough effort.
@@tjember_ren1729 Well it wasn't by mistake lol. But the design choice had the following reason: subpar engine with no physics (thank Relic) and cheaper to develop. Show me a single person who doesn't love seeing the spears and arrows miss and stick into the ground? That's immersive af! This is a big downgrade.
@@cdgncgn it's literally a "stat" setting you can turn off with the mod editor by setting the field to a %
im waiting for AOE4 to have a couple heavy dlc to really get into it. so right now im checking my wallet and thorwing money at the screen
Joan of Arc in real life: A pacifist who never directly engaged in combat herself, nor did she kill anyone.
Joan of Arc in media: An over-the-top badass super warrior who can take on an army.
i saw the Jean D'arc movie and played the FGO one pretty sure u just describe her in the latter (in media)
@@Vince120Dfgo didnt have much to do with the historical prototypes of badass half naked battle spirits that play key part in the story
well, movies protagonists do neither, but fate kinda tell you straight about this. Human perception shifting appearance and abilities of the summoned dude and all that shit
Joan of Arc is honestly the most interesting to me. As someone who plays a lot of solo RPGs, there's a lot of appeal to it.
Do you know what happened with Age of Mythology Definitive Edition?
You mean Retold, right? They didn't announce AoM DE and I missed it or something?
As far we know it's in development. No date in sight or how the process is going.
But no doubt it's gonna be on Game Pass.
Still in development as far as i know. It's called "AoM Retold" though not DE. 🙂
@@WikiHL Yes. Retold.
If they makes an entirely new game worth of content, you can expect the game will come out in like 3-4 years from now or more. 😅 2 years from now would be 3 years in development and I don’t think they have a huge team for AOM.
I love the asymmetry in this game, gives it a lot of variety - at least for casual.
The four variant civs seems like the variants in C&C: Zero Hour for each factions. Same unit & buildings with slight changes here and there and more specialize in something.
$15 is pretty good for all of that, although it does kinda sound like from other comments that you’re paying _them_ to test which types of variants are best.
Still, you can’t go wrong with the Byzantines and Japanese to gain some popularity.
I mean, you're paying them for Byzantines, Japnese and maybe Ayyubids and Zhu Xi's, 15$ is a fair price for the quality delivered there.
Order of the dragon seems like a nice feature for beginners/people who struggle with RTS, as you need less micromanagement for them. Not for everyone butnothing wrong with that. Only Jeanne-D'arc seems trluy expeirmental but I mean... No one's forcing you to play it. They already gave you your money's worth the the other four.
That's a weird way of looking at it. These civ variants are incredibly unique and will be great for single player. The French one is almost like playing a Moba. The HRE one with few but powerful units feeds a different type of player fantasy. The Chinese one is like playing Zerg with the flexibility Imperial Officials give you. Not to mention variants making it easier to main multiple civs by having very similar mechanics as compared to the main civs that are all very different. So you're not paying them to test anything, you're getting a lot of varied and interesting play styles for very cheap.
This was awesome man, thanks. I watch pro AoE2 but play AoE4. This video summarized everything nicely and gave me a better understanding of what’s coming (because man there’s a lot.)
Don't get too excited, it's only a B+.
@@andreicristian9575 ce b+ visezi boss ?
@@stancastan5926 Ai impresia ca daca sunt din Romania amandoi vorbim pakistaneza? Uita-te la videoclip, si cauta in DEX definitia cuvantului "sarcasm".
They've took this concept directly from 2008's Command and Conquer 3 - Kane's Wrath expansion.
The expansion pack has introduced two subfactions for each existing faction, adding more variety to the game.
Nice point.
And perhaps that derived from C&C Generals: Zero Hour - a system weirdly missing from the base game, despite the naming.
Really makes you question probable pressure from EA to hit a release date.
It would explain the vapid feeling campaigns.
Great overview and review, thanks! I am very excited to play this expansion, even if I’m still not sure we needed the variant civs.
They make it easier to main multiple civs, are faster to develop, and similar to AoE2 civs in a way, with "unit reskins" as unique units.
Byzantines look amazing
Looks neat, but why are mercenaries willing to be paid in olive oil?
Rare and authentic Byzantine olive oil produced nowhere else in those times... I don't know how the swords-for-hire used olive oil besides adding flavour to their salads, sautéing and frying foods, mixing it in cauldrons of defensive boiling oil, having masseurs apply it on their bodies...
Because it's to die for!
Its a luxury product. Basically shitton of money in a portable form. Its not really easy to bring your salary home when you are high payed mercenary and this is pretty heavy amount of gold, while barrel of oil can worth the same yet weight less.
Althrough mercenary must be sure that he can sell that oil for a good price at home, so no Conans-Barbarians for oil
I can't wait to play the french Jeanne of arc , byzantin and japanese. They look super fun to play with a lot of replayability.
Also, i'm pleasantly surprised that the DLC really make AOE4 a really distinct game from AOE2 . Now you really can feel the difference and i hope will attract different (and more) kind of players.
happy to see SPTL back to aoe4
Stoked to play this expansion
I’ve never even played aoe4 but I just need a sotl video right now
the jeanne d'arc sounds interesting, as a wc3 fan that sounds just up my alley.
Pretty hyped to play with the new civs and variants, all of them look pretty fun to pilot.
This game doesnt get enough attention it deserves.
ChillyEmpire, Age of Noob, Drongo, BeastqtSC2, etc. giving the Relic Ent-made game attention and publicity, and perhaps you should have the same initiative as them
@@royasturias1784 How am i gonna help the game with 0 people that know about me, watch me, or want to watch me. I am mediocre at the game, analysts like Spirit of the Law or Age Of Noob take more than good enough care of that stuff.
I love your videos and I've watched all of them for *years* now - so I was super happy to see you cover AoE4 for a change. It's really underrated and for me it's incredibly fun to play some 2v2 matches after I get home from work each day. For me AoE4 hits just the right mix of being easy to play but with tons and tons of depth.
However, you make it abundantly clear that you really *REALLY* just don't like the game, which is a bummer but I guess it can't be helped.
The funny part is that the marketing people who gave you access probably thought "SotL is a great guy and he loves AoE - surely he'll be excited by all of the varied new content! He might just comment on how much we steadily improved the game in the past years. This will be great!"
... and then the *actual* review ends up being: "Meh, maybe some weirdos will like it. Anyways, off to play some AoE 2 custom games *drops mic*". XD
He gave it a B+, I think that was pretty fair. Maybe it ended on a bit of a sour note but I think that the overall preview was positive and he said this is exactly what AoE4 needs.
We must not have watched the same video. This video was well researched and well produced, super informative with some thoughtful opinions. On par for SotL. A bit summarized, but we can look forward to more in depth content from Age of Noob and others.
Spirit made quite possibly the most objective review one can make, there was no bias, he's simply pointing out areas that could use some improvement where it makes sense to, praises what is decent and comments on more devisive parts of the dlc, all other creators i checked on are really biased one way or another, or downright neglecting certain things while overemphasising others
@@Mythic1560 I agree that SotL was fair. All I said is that he obviously isn't into it.
AoE4 was a buggy mess the last time he did any video about it. Now it's freaking good (and the version he got to play has even more improvements that the public hasnÄ't played with yet, like the improved wall system. A fair review doesn't have to mention any of this, but if he liked the game, there would be no reason not to.
@@mariomcp Giving it B+ is fair? What does he give AoE2 DLC with 2 reskins and a scenario mission for the same price point?
Love new content for AoE4 and also your coverage of it. Lets get those player numbers up!
Very historically accurate Byzantines especially during their later period where the Empire relied more and more on mercenaries. Cant wait to play as them. Japanese looks cool as hell too with the samurai.
Great video Spirit of the law ! :D thank u, Age 4 is a brilliant game
I think the reason why the variants wernt the templars/hospitalers/Teutonics/Turks/Ayuubids was becuase some executive was like 'nah we can't be Eurocentric, gotta be half western and half eastern, which is why they didn't go all in on the crusader theme
I have strong Warcraft 3 vibes with Jeanne 11
Not sure why we call these unique units "themed reskins"? They're just as unique as any other unique units in AoE2 or 4.
Why would a Cataphract here be a "themed reskin" when it's more unique than it's AoE2 equivalent which we call a unique unit?
AoE 2's unique units work different as they don't replace regular units but instead are supposed to be.. unique which is why they're often locked behind a castle.
@@FloosWorld_AoEYou're missing the point.
Besides: Savar, Legionnary
@@camroth89 I get what you say.
I said often, not always :p I'm aware that we've got a few UUs outside the castle such as Shrivamsha, Longboat, Missionary etc. but most of the time, they're made in the castle
@@FloosWorld_AoEOk, which has no bearing at all on my original comment.
@@camroth89 It's because he doesn't like the game. A subtle way of calling it cheap.
OK the Byzantines look amazing I,m getting this DLC
I would've loved to have a crusader-themed civilization with templars and holy hand grenadiers and such, would've been so cool.
Abbasid main here, Ayybids are an aggro civ while abbasids are the hardest boom civ in the game.
They're clearly taking some AOE3 mechanics, as you mentioned, since India has their Mansabdar units that work similarily in that game.
so Jeanne D'arc is warcraft 3 in aoe. sounds like one of the most fun civs tbh
Joan becoming mounted archer (or even canoneer?) sounds dumb and fun 😂
i'm interested
That Knight has steering, not input lag. It looks like a turn speed cap akin to Dota.
Seeing the knights templar and knights hospitaller in the campaign but not used for a civ seems like a waste of unique unit designs someone spent time on that your only going to see in certain missions. It hurts especially when the whole theme the dlc was supposed to revolve around the crusades with the byzantines and ayyubids atleast making sense.
I guess they add them later, they just didn't managed to finish them yet
I can bet on Crusader variant civ
Damn, I wanted my Teutonic Knights.
Although, Order of the Dragon does run a theme and style that I like; Black steel, super quality force!
Jeanne d'arc is kinda weird.....Cannon master/civil construction engineer/ mongol archer knight/she doesn't die when she is killed, seems like something I'd expect from the Fate series version of her.
Hopefully everything works out, as I like the direction they are going.
....and if I'm lucky, maybe I can get my Teutonic Knights.....on horses!
It reminds me of Czech translation of Canons of the Holy Sepulchre into Artillerymen of t. H.S. M2TW.
Missing those knightly orders is imo massive, yet game equipment looks like mostly 16th century.
This is like Generals from C&C! Good addition to the series. Or as Commanders from coop mode of Starcraft 2, particularly reminded me because SC 2 also have Commanders that turn game into rpg instead of rts 😂
Joan of Arc sounds like AOE trying to do War Craft
End version with the cannpn looks ... epic. In both ways.
AoE3 explorers and treasure camps with guardians sounds like AoE doing Warcraft.
Okay, I think the "olive oil buys mercenaries" thing is a way to show how valuable oil was, but still, it kind of looks ridiculous. Imagine some two metres tall landsknecht just refusing a pile of gold and instead demanding a barrel of oil.
You'd be surprised how many things were more valuable than gold in the past. Tea being one of them.
8:50 Jeanne d’Arc as an archer??? I guess Age of Empires goes full fiction again, although presenting itself as "historical".
Though remembered as a fearless warrior and considered a heroine of the Hundred Years' War between France and England, *Jeanne never actually fought in battle or killed anybody* . Instead, she would accompany her men as a sort of inspirational mascot, brandishing her banner in place of a weapon.
Dude. It's not a realistic game.
@@PurpleWarlockOh bullshit.
It's set in the real world, in a real time frame, using real nations, real unit names, real technologies. It has campaigns which are about real people and conflicts, using documentary style cutscenes. They advertise it as having "historical battles", they constantly refer to the real life achievements of civilizations. "The past is prologue as you are immersed in a rich historical setting..." - straight from steam.
Sorry, I'm really tired of people pretending that games that are showcasing history don't need to be realistic. If you don't want to make a realistic game, don't market it as real history, or better yet, don't set it in the real world.
@@PurpleWarlock Just imagine they would do that with Mahatma Gandhi or Mother Teresa instead. It is immersion breaking stuff and totally not OK.
@@thomasdemetz6145 I'm catholic. What do you want me to do? Tell the Pope or the King of France what's happening?
@@simpsondr12 They turned into a explorer from AoE 3. Maybe more Warcraft 3 super unit.
They just take some liberties.
Man I wish instead of Jeanne D Arc we would have got Baldwin IV with the civ being called Kingdom of Jerusalem it would've fit so much better with the theme of the campaign the dlc is going for. Hell the aesthetic alone would be way more badass his bodyguards being templars or hospitallers whether on foot or horse and his final level him being carried around on his bed doing his best to lead and support his army. Miss opportunities for a very unique looking variant civ with a combination of European and Middle Eastern architecture. It hurts especially since I just found out the campaign has templars and hospitallers unit models that are only in the new campaign and didn't use them for a variant civ.
@@AaronRohan while it sounds unrealistic it's true that in he had to be carried around as his leprosy had gotten too severe but continued to lead until his death. If he was in the game as a civ I would imagine he would be leaning more towards a strictly support role.
Okay the expansion packs have some seriously wacky new stuff, and I'm all for it.
Me: Builds strong walls around my heart forever protecting me from emotional damage although locking myself up.
Her: Lol! Tripple Sultan Tower
I'm going to say it AoE4 dlc >>>>>>>> AoE2 dlc
Depends on the AoE 2 DLC/Expansion ;) Sultans Ascent might have more content than Mountain Royals but it still needs to beat Conquerors and Forgotten
The jeanne d'arc civ looks really cool. I started playing RTS games with starcraft and age of empires, but kinda missed the whole warcraft series. That civ looks almost like what I understand warcraft to be, like a age of empires game but with a hero you have to level with special abilities. I like that aoe4 seems to be aiming for more distinct civ identities than in aoe2 (at least as aoe2 was before some of the recent dlcs).
To be fair ONLY WC3 did this all the way as a class system that also functioned in skirmish
I've played a looot of command and conquer red alert 3 back in the days, and many of these features remind me of that game. Units disguising themselves and heroes. Area of effect bonuses units and so on. I'm curious if the game developers got inspired by the franchise
Modern game design. You just look at what others did and add it to your own game, hope for the best.
Why are AoE2 and AoE4 fan bases so divided? Can't we just live in peace and harmony with each other and accept that each game has its unique strengths and weaknesses?
Short summary:
- At AoE 4's release, some AoE 2 fans acted needlessly stupid and aggresive towards AoE 4 and its players
- Meanwhile, things have flipped a bit and AoE 4 fans are acting in the same stupid way and there's a common theme of justifying AoE 4's existence by saying it's "more unique" than AoE 2 (and no, I don't mean that negative, that's just an observation I made)
@@FloosWorld_AoE I agree. The arguments that I hear are also all the same.
Arguments of AoE4 players are always Aoe2 has old graphics, cis are all too similar, not that historically accurate.
On the other hand AoE2 fans always say about AoE4 that the campaigns are neglected, too cartoonish graphics, too little civs. (Any other arguments I forgot?)
So it seems to me that every game has its own niche attracting its own niche players. No reason to act like a child and hate on the other game. We are all one big AoE family after all ;)
@@baronaoe4 Yup, pretty much.
I think AoE 2 and 4 players also often controversially discuss arrow dodging as projectiles in AoE 4 are homing.
@@FloosWorld_AoE But can you blame them when their favorite players were switching camps?
@@andreicristian9575 Well, they didn't switch at all because they were still playing AoE 2 at that time. They're also Content Creators so they want to check out the new thing. I assume Viper playing some AoM as well once Retold is out.
SOTL should focus on Aoe4 more! It’s the future of the franchise. So many new content and new mechanics to share. What else to explain on Aoe2 haha :P
You'd be surprised how deep some mechanics in AoE 2 are.
@@FloosWorld_AoE yeah, I played Aoe 2 a lot, esp since the Definitive Edition. Even if new DLC keeps coming, I feel the mechanics of the game have been “solved”. The interests are still there but not exciting anymore (for me). Aoe4 fills this gap and I think sky is the limit to experiment with this game.
He will focus on the game that gives him more views, as the AoE2 scene is larger than the AoE4 scene.
If they reintroduce melee weapons for archers when they get hit by melee weapon, that would be quite something. Before AoE4 release it was there, I think campaign had it still.
@@rishisharma959 right now yes and that makes sense.
good thing we get a flavor of cannon or cannon for jean... cuz thats what she is all know about after all - excessive violence.
To me Joan looks the most interesting
Some time passed since Byzantines and Japanese could be referred as 'brand new civs 😂'
I think they should focus on new factions not like adding variatio. factions for existing ones. It’s strange crusaders don’t get a faction but I guess that would be France anyway. They could have added Spain, Venice, Papal States, Poland, Scotland, Portugal etc…. Im glad Japan and Byzantines were added as well as ottomans recently.
Hey SOTL if you’re making age 4 content do you plan on making any AOM:R content when it comes out? Just wondering.
He covered every Age game so far, so doesn't seem too unlikely
Yeah they should have kept some of the civs for later, Order of the Dragon works with the crusade Campaigns but France could have gotten the Knights Hospitaller or the Knights Templar and HRE could have gotten the Teutonic Order, since they were baltic you could have given Russia the Jomsvikings, it could also fit to the HRE as they were mercenaries that fought for anyone regardless of faith if they payed good money. The Russians could also get the Kievan Rus or if you want to stretch a bit, make them Varangians.
Novgorod. Rus must receive Novgorod as alt civ, with focus on trade, sea and maybe some raider/outlaw units. Maybe bounty busting gold production instead of food. Maybe ability to refund some pricey upgrades/change between several global buffs, as mechanic based on fact that Novgorod Veche (meeting of people to vote about important questions) and Boyars are called and expelled Princes as they like, based on their performance as rulers and military leaders, which is pretty unique for that time
I look forward to playing this... eventually.
A Joan of Arc "civ" is uh, regrettable, but other than that it definitely looks worth the money.
It could be interesting for AoE4 to lean more on heroes, could make it more distinct from 3 and 2.
The editor is really unfortunate because I was trying to see if I could find anything formula related to trade, but a lot of the interesting variables and formulas are just outright locked out of the editor, or left in uninitialized hook states where the game engine is clearly able to utilize them but its just a zero on the user end.
Like cool, I can see trader gold is a floating point variable, but I did for a day or two and couldn't see where or how it was getting assigned.
Honestly I'd love if all the civs had an "hero" with an upgrade path. Similar to AoE III's Explorer, but also Dragonshard's Champion
this DLC looks fireee!
Hmm, still think that Age of Mythologies did a better job in making interesting variants of the same faction... and also having variation while in the game itself. Well, AgE III also had its different options when going up an age and the hometown skill card system as well.
Dont really agree on that, myth gods are so similar to eachother it feels almost like the name is the biggest change.
@@Anttown123 It's probably a question of what someone personally imagine a "variant" should be.
Should they feel totally different? Or just slightly nick a notch? I feel like AoM meet the sweet spot of being different to play around different strategies, but not too different to make me learn something totally new and different.
For AoE4, it seems to me it goes overboard or feels flat? Maybe over time when more Civs have variants with similar mechanics and gives more freedom of choice I feel different about it.
@@KaneCold to me even aoe2 feels more diffrent than aom but yeah idk i get what You mean. I hope the myth remake Will be amazing tho.
I really dont understand the whole concept of adding civs that we would like to see in game in the campaign, as mentioned at the end of the video. If they were going the variant civs route, i wouldve loved to see the teutons as the variant civ for hre, and the norse as the variant civ for either English or Rus.
The Age series is sadly no stranger to campaign only civs. They already went that route in AoE 3's campaigns.
Byzantines and Japanese are very good picks for new civs, probably most requested. But the variant civs... I like the idea but they have been chosen very poorly.
For France it could have been Burgundy or the knight's templar.
For the HRE it should have been the Teutonic order, which would tie into that crusader theme as well.
For China it could have involved a dynasty that was not against shaolin monks.
If only this game didn't have weird input lag/stutter. I can't imagine how good it would be if it's crisp like sc2 or aoe2. Even cursor moves like a grandpa.
If there's lag or stutter it's on your end.
Or you may just be referring to and exaggerating the effect of the tick rate, which is lower in AoE4, so definitely not as snappy as SC or AoE2 (although pathing is 100 times better than AoE2).
@@camroth89 i don't really know how to explain it. Maybe it's not called input lag but i feel weird non fluid movement in whole game. I've played it on quite a few different devices and locations. I don't think it's related to these.
@@dr.ozanoztavlibuy a new computer lol, how can there be competitve tournaments if the game being what you said.
@@dr.ozanoztavli Yeah I get what you mean. All units in AoE 4 seem to have a noticable input delay which can be especially seen when you spam right click.
So far I like how everything is besides the French variant. It feels like just an upgrade to France . Faster villagers is pretty much the only bonus France has which I’ve noticed . Oh and keep influence but Joan’s ability is just a better version so
Villager advantage vs Hero unit make you play a completely different style. When you play with the hero unit you have to focus on leveling it, instead of focusing on macro play. It's a completely different play style.
I was hyped when this game was released in 2021, then i got dissapointed :/ HOWEVER, NOW, i came back and It really looks like DEVS have put more love into it :3 Im playing again learning civs, i hope to jump soon to ranked games, pls try to give it a chance now SOTL, regards.
Ah yes, we all remember the great civilization of Jeanne D'arc.
I really like most of the expansions additions tbh, and I think I like Joan of Arc *if* this doesn't become the standard template for all variant civs going forward. In a year or two, 3 "Hero" focused variants amidst a sea of "Normal" civilizations would be a fun balance to maintain.
8:20 isnt it the attack increase 20% so 1.2 instead of 1.25?
And in other news, i'm a bit disappointed on the order of the dragon, you gave some example of stats in early game i believe, i hope in imperial age it's better, since the fact that they cost twice as much population means they need to have twice the hp AND twice the attack (rather damage, but similar), of normal units, if they were the same pop they would only need to have twice hp OR twice attack (damage), (or a combination of both, like x1.4142 HP and atk) because they already cost twice, so in early game would underperform but in late game would be the same, or better if the cuadratic product would be more than twice (as it should be).
PD: Seems like in this game Japanese would not longer be your fav as you said byzantines were your fav 😢
You pulled alot of punches on that joan review lol. But the subtle cut at the end calling it more of an rpg with some aoe happening in the background was a powerful blow despite it's subtlety
he did not show RPG joan, hand cannon Joan I mean.
There is a subtle passive-aggressiveness in his review of this DLC, right down to the B+ rating for a DLC that's 2x or 3x richer than any AoE2 DLC at the same price.
@@andreicristian9575 I play both, but when it comes to Sultans or Mountain Royals for the same price point, I know which I'll be getting, as I feel I'm getting more bang for my buck.
Seems like a load of content, and the civs are both really interesting and unique. The variants for the most part seem pretty cool too (albeit in dire need of some nerfing), with the exception of Jeanne D'Arc which seems like a pretty big misstep, but 5/6 ain't bad. Honestly a great DLC.
Looks like the spy and shinobe from red alert 3 had a kid and joined the AOE franchise
I actually like the sounds of the Jeanne D'Arc mechanic more than I thought. Also I think they didn't go with a strict crusader theme as it would otherwise feel too similar
Spirit of the Law: B+
Sales Figures: The best-selling expansion in Age franchise history
Reality: The Byzantine civ alone has more interesting mechanics than all of the AOE2 expansions combined.