The maps for Lord of the Rings were drawn by Christopher Tolkien (the Hobbit map was JRRT). I think the first fantasy novel with a map was William Morris's "The Sundering Flood" (1897). The Oz books had maps, including a separate map of Oz as a promotional item. E.R. Eddison's Zimiamvia books (Mistress of Mistresses, 1935 et seq.) had maps (though there was no official map for the world of The Worm Ouroboros). But of course, Lord of the Rings was hugely influential, and just as every fantasy novel has to hint (at least) of original languages for the world, every fantasy novel now is expected to have a map.
I'm from Australia, living on the Sunshine Coast but have been to Matamata (Hobbiton) five times now - and loved it EVERY time! :) I also enjoy doing the Weta Cave and Weta Workshop tours down in Wellington; and have done the 'Mt Victoria' LOTR tour as well. Loved them all :)
Right there with you regarding the news and social media !! Hobbiton (the Shire) is a wonderful middle earth experiance... it is maintained just like it was shot for the movie, so a real taste of being there - also the good ol Hobbiton pub at the end that is full of atmosphere, breakfasts, 2nd breakfasts, food and drink! Look forward to seeing is this lives up to its billing from previous comments here. Either way great to see - thank you
First of all, very excited seeing you dive into MESBG. I've got stacks of stuff but never played it; but it's a wonderful system and there are so many great minis! And second of all, very much feel you on social media and news these days! Best thing for mental health is minis...
Excited to see you dive into MESBG. It has this reputation for being "the best ruleset GW have ever made" and I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on it. I've always struggled to get enthusiastic about the minis as well but the ones in this box look really nice.
Looking forward to your deep dive into the system. Played it a lot when it originally came out. Sooo good. Much fun was had. Only played a game or two of the last iteration. Missed out during the "The Hobbit" rules era. Preorderd the new set, army books etc. And hope to enjoy it during christmas break. Cheers.
Really excellent video and I salute you for it. Many people, including myself, believe that MESBG is the best gaming system ever produced by GW (probably because they've tended to keep their hands off it over time) and the new edition looks very promising with positive tweaks. LOTR seems to be in your blood from what you've said ..... therefore, I feel really confident that you will really enjoy the experience - I sincerely hope so and look forward to you knocking out a battle report with your mates.
Ha, loved this, candid and to the point, plenty of admitted mistakes and a dive into your past history and connection to the books! I am going to grab it and attack it in the same way sir, looking forward to the next video ❤ Top Man.
Very down to earth review Peter, looking forward to seeing your progression through the box set. I first got into LoTR by listening to an episode of the BBC Radio 4 dramatisation back in 1981. I was hooked and bought the book, the same one you have a copy of. I would sit and read it during my lunch break at work next to river than ran through the centre of the town. There was an animated film made in 1978, which i saw in the 80s. I would love to get the new set as the Rohirim have always been my favourite faction, i do already have a reasonable force of them. However i would love to have the new sculpts.
That must have been a popular edition - or perhaps it's just because most of my viewers are my vintage, for some reason. Ahh, the Ralph Bakshi film, I remember it well - so exciting at the time, but so disappointing when it ended at the charge of the Rohirrim - I couldn't believe it!
This is a great game. I'm in the middle of a narrative campaign called "Quest of the ring bearer" . Basically it's all scenarios that involve Frodo and the ring. Me and my gaming buddy will have to decide wether to stay with the old edition or to switch to the new rule set and maybe have a little imbalance in the scenarios. During gameplay we realized that we do not get as competetive as in other games. It feels more like we are cooperatively telling the stories but are trying to pull it into different directions. But even lossing feels like you have watched a good story... so maybe balance is not that important. Edit: Most of the scenarios in the "Quest of the ring bearer"-Book have a small miniture number count. For us that works great.
I heard they have tweaked all the stats. I love the idea of the games being more cinematic and story-like - just going for objectives gets a bit tedious!
i seem to recall reading in an article that the different scale was a licensing thing. So as not to be confused with warhammer fantasy minis. I think it was even not allowed to use the minis in official warhammer events and vice versa. It's a great game though, one of the best skirmish games i ever played. Also one of the few GW games where both players interact during the turn with the alternating structure of you move all your models and then i move, then you shoot all and i shoot, and then both rolling during combat. With who gets initiative proving crucial during later turns when you are closed in on each other!
@JanusZudnik a quuck google gives this: 'Part of GWs contract with NewLine Cinema obligates GW to take measures to "preserve the integrity of the Tolkien brand." Long story short, no LOTR bits ordering, no published photos of Gold Demon winners that use LOTR bits in non-LOTR models et cetera. They don't want Balrog bits showing up on your demon prince. You can do as you wish with the LOTR models. New Line isn't going to come into your game parlor and take your models from you if you use them for something other than LOTR. They just make it inconvenient/unattractive to do so.'
Fair enough! It seems to make sense that they wanted a more realistic, less heroic style to the minis. I remember a lot of talk when it first came out about how close the minis were to the film characters.
Love the video, appreciate your opinions on this. I was planning on grabbing this box and making it my first real foray into Middle Earth. Unfortunately....they're asking $270 CAD for so that's a big "hell no!" from me.
Boxes are nice; but do people use the boxes for games like this once the minis and terrain are built and painted? I wonder if there might be some way to ship in some kind of disposable packaging that would still look good in a store display?
Oh, I definitely do. I often make inserts with thin stainless steel sheets in them so I can store my magnetised minis. (Obviously the terrain has to go into plastic bins.) The boxes look good on my shelf and I can find everything easily. So I hate flimsy boxes.
I think when LOTR first came out, it wasn't so much that the models were a smaller scale, it's that they were realistically scaled (no big hands, no big heads, no big weapons). Not having such a big head does make them 1 or 2mm shorter than WHFB and 40k miniatures of the day, but more than that they lacked the bulk of the more comically scaled WHFB and 40k models. I actually really loved it back in the day, and seeing properly scaled models made me go off the "hero" scale of GW's other games.
They are in fact, a smaller scale. You're correct that they're not "heroically" portioned and more realistic, but they are 25mm scale rather than the more common 28mm. 25mm was a popular scale for historical models in the 70's and early 80's. There's video interviews with Rick Priestly stating they were intentionally scaled to that older 25mm standard.
@@Lord_Evidar Yeah, they were a slightly smaller scale too, but the main difference was the heroic scale IMO. I have some of the original Rohan models sitting on my display shelf next to some 40k models from the same era, the top of the Rohan head is roughly eye level with the the 40k model, so it, so it's like comparing someone who's 6' tall to someone who's 5'8 or something like that... BUT, the Rohan model is half the bulk, his arms are half the size, his head is tiny, the Rohan legs are slimmer than the 40k model's forearm, lol. That's why they look so different, not because it's 25mm vs 28mm (actually, I just measured, an upright Rohan model is 25mm to the eyes, an upright Guardsman is about 27mm to the eyes).
I can understand that, the mainstream GW stuff can get a bit over the top sometimes. Big bulging muscles and giant weapons would look silly on LOTR minis.
@@EsotericOrderGamers To be fair, 25mm measured to the eyes is roughly 28mm measured to the top of the head, and in the great scale debates there'll always be people arguing for one or the other being "the one true measurement".
Did GW offer you the recently released Warhammer Underworlds Embergard new edition to review? Its more of a smaller boxed hex based game. Less models to put together per warband. Might be worth looking at if you like that style of game.
Yes, and my review is coming VERY soon! Completely different type of game to a classic tabletop miniatures one like this of course, I'd call it a boardgame.
I've been curious about the previous big box set, but the quality of the old sculpts put me off. Now this box is humans vs. humans with a few shacks included... not very exciting. Fingers crossed there will be more range refreshes in the future, the new sculpts seem much nicer!
I also owned that edition of Lord of the Rings, although I have a hardback copy now. Apart from a copy of LotR Risk, that I no longer have, I have never played any of the miniatures games. I don't think that Edoras will draw me in.
Strangely enough I missed that exam at the border. I suppose they just heard about my game collection, made the assumption, and waved me right on in. 🤣
@@EsotericOrderGamers Also just wanted to agree with your point that the movie visuals now replace most of the imagination when reading the books. Glad they did a good job with the design & casting! I really look forward to hearing more of your thoughts on the minis and the game overall once you get to playing it.
@@pagancrew Oh the horror! It was Stuart Townsend originally and they were even just about to start filming with him. Thankfully Viggo took on the role at the last moment and threw his heart and soul into it.
Wait... you've NEVER experienced the MESBG from GW?!?! Oh my god brother... its the best combat system in a tabletop game that's ever been designed! (Well.. it WAS.. dunno about the new edition yet.. but early reviews are raving positives.. so..) I would KILL to be in your shoes right now.. learning the system for the first time and getting my first games in.
But why is it so good then? I'm reading it now and it seems kind of clunky to me, full of special cases and extra rules for particular situations. There's even a cross-indexed table! Feels quite old-school at first glance.
@@EsotericOrderGamers I cant even try to explain it. You just have to experience it for yourself. Trust me. Literally EVERYONE thats ever played the system says its the best they ever did. Every TTWG websites do nothing but rave about it (Spikey Bits, Beasts of War etc etc.) To steal a quote... "It just works." and the most hilarious part is.. I cannot explain it. You just have jump in and do it yourself. :) ... and ask anyone thats played, its worth it. When/IF you DO do a video about this (and I hope that you do, ESPECIALLY as a new player.) I'd love to hear your thoughts after a few games once you've learned the basics!
No idea what the current state of the rules are for this game, but my friends and I bought the Fellowship box back when it first came out because they were talking in White Dwarf about how it was going to be a radical departure from the core Warhammer games. I was thinking something like a d10 or d100 based system, but it turned out to be another d6 cross reference chart game. We played a few games but didn't really like it. Of course being the naïve young adult that I was I still bought the next two boxed sets saying that I would use the minis in my D&D games. Pretty sure they are still in the shrink wrap...I would definitively been better off giving this game a miss. Hope you enjoy it though.
The original models were 1 part (or at most the shield was a separate part), made the models nice and fast to assemble and paint. They've gone the other direction, making them more detailed but more complex to build.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
What a refreshing video... no mention of patrion, just pure and honest game chat, by a Gamer FOR gamers.... LOVE this :-)
Thankyou! After 12 years of doing this stuff, I've realised I'm very bored with the constant spruiking. Oh hold on - but check out my APP!! 🤣🤣🤣
LOL ;-)
The maps for Lord of the Rings were drawn by Christopher Tolkien (the Hobbit map was JRRT). I think the first fantasy novel with a map was William Morris's "The Sundering Flood" (1897). The Oz books had maps, including a separate map of Oz as a promotional item. E.R. Eddison's Zimiamvia books (Mistress of Mistresses, 1935 et seq.) had maps (though there was no official map for the world of The Worm Ouroboros). But of course, Lord of the Rings was hugely influential, and just as every fantasy novel has to hint (at least) of original languages for the world, every fantasy novel now is expected to have a map.
Wonderful information, thankyou, I'll check all those out!
I'm from Australia, living on the Sunshine Coast but have been to Matamata (Hobbiton) five times now - and loved it EVERY time! :)
I also enjoy doing the Weta Cave and Weta Workshop tours down in Wellington; and have done the 'Mt Victoria' LOTR tour as well. Loved them all :)
I've been to Wellington and done the Weta stuff, but you're way ahead of me otherwise - I will get to Hobbiton definitely!
Right there with you regarding the news and social media !! Hobbiton (the Shire) is a wonderful middle earth experiance... it is maintained just like it was shot for the movie, so a real taste of being there - also the good ol Hobbiton pub at the end that is full of atmosphere, breakfasts, 2nd breakfasts, food and drink!
Look forward to seeing is this lives up to its billing from previous comments here. Either way great to see - thank you
I must get to Hobbiton - it's pretty close really!
First of all, very excited seeing you dive into MESBG. I've got stacks of stuff but never played it; but it's a wonderful system and there are so many great minis! And second of all, very much feel you on social media and news these days! Best thing for mental health is minis...
Well, we can discover it together then! I can see myself getting some of the classic characters pretty quickly ...
Love it; I'm VERY much looking forward to seeing more from you!
Just finished painting so more soon!
Thanks for covering MESBG I just started collecting myself! I started a High Elf and Gundabad (Orcs) armies.
Nice! More stuff soon.
Excited to see you dive into MESBG. It has this reputation for being "the best ruleset GW have ever made" and I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on it. I've always struggled to get enthusiastic about the minis as well but the ones in this box look really nice.
Everyone certainly speaks very well of it, I can hardly wait!
Looking forward to your deep dive into the system. Played it a lot when it originally came out. Sooo good. Much fun was had.
Only played a game or two of the last iteration. Missed out during the "The Hobbit" rules era.
Preorderd the new set, army books etc. And hope to enjoy it during christmas break.
Cheers.
Let me know what you think when you've played a few games!
Really excellent video and I salute you for it.
Many people, including myself, believe that MESBG is the best gaming system ever produced by GW (probably because they've tended to keep their hands off it over time) and the new edition looks very promising with positive tweaks.
LOTR seems to be in your blood from what you've said ..... therefore, I feel really confident that you will really enjoy the experience - I sincerely hope so and look forward to you knocking out a battle report with your mates.
Thankyou! From what people are saying I may have missed out a lot by not playing it earlier. I will record my experiences as I go ...
Ha, loved this, candid and to the point, plenty of admitted mistakes and a dive into your past history and connection to the books!
I am going to grab it and attack it in the same way sir, looking forward to the next video ❤
Top Man.
Glad you enjoyed it - and if there's one thing I'm very happy doing, it's admitting to my mistakes! 🤣 Busy painting up this set as we speak.
Very down to earth review Peter, looking forward to seeing your progression through the box set. I first got into LoTR by listening to an episode of the BBC Radio 4 dramatisation back in 1981. I was hooked and bought the book, the same one you have a copy of. I would sit and read it during my lunch break at work next to river than ran through the centre of the town. There was an animated film made in 1978, which i saw in the 80s. I would love to get the new set as the Rohirim have always been my favourite faction, i do already have a reasonable force of them. However i would love to have the new sculpts.
That must have been a popular edition - or perhaps it's just because most of my viewers are my vintage, for some reason. Ahh, the Ralph Bakshi film, I remember it well - so exciting at the time, but so disappointing when it ended at the charge of the Rohirrim - I couldn't believe it!
This is a great game. I'm in the middle of a narrative campaign called "Quest of the ring bearer" . Basically it's all scenarios that involve Frodo and the ring. Me and my gaming buddy will have to decide wether to stay with the old edition or to switch to the new rule set and maybe have a little imbalance in the scenarios.
During gameplay we realized that we do not get as competetive as in other games. It feels more like we are cooperatively telling the stories but are trying to pull it into different directions. But even lossing feels like you have watched a good story... so maybe balance is not that important.
Edit: Most of the scenarios in the "Quest of the ring bearer"-Book have a small miniture number count. For us that works great.
I heard they have tweaked all the stats. I love the idea of the games being more cinematic and story-like - just going for objectives gets a bit tedious!
lovely down to earth video, thank you!
You're most welcome.
That is the same edition of the book that I read over the Summer Holidays in the year I left school, 1981.
I left school 2 years later!
i seem to recall reading in an article that the different scale was a licensing thing. So as not to be confused with warhammer fantasy minis. I think it was even not allowed to use the minis in official warhammer events and vice versa.
It's a great game though, one of the best skirmish games i ever played. Also one of the few GW games where both players interact during the turn with the alternating structure of you move all your models and then i move, then you shoot all and i shoot, and then both rolling during combat. With who gets initiative proving crucial during later turns when you are closed in on each other!
Interesting, I've heard they've made them smaller to compensate for the licencing fees. But this seems more comprehensive
@JanusZudnik a quuck google gives this:
'Part of GWs contract with NewLine Cinema obligates GW to take measures to "preserve the integrity of the Tolkien brand." Long story short, no LOTR bits ordering, no published photos of Gold Demon winners that use LOTR bits in non-LOTR models et cetera. They don't want Balrog bits showing up on your demon prince. You can do as you wish with the LOTR models. New Line isn't going to come into your game parlor and take your models from you if you use them for something other than LOTR. They just make it inconvenient/unattractive to do so.'
Fair enough! It seems to make sense that they wanted a more realistic, less heroic style to the minis. I remember a lot of talk when it first came out about how close the minis were to the film characters.
Good on ya mate. Great DTE video as always. Looking forward to the next one playing the game itself
DTE ... Direct to Edit? Dumber Than Everyone? Distinctive Though Excruciating? 🤣
Love the video, appreciate your opinions on this. I was planning on grabbing this box and making it my first real foray into Middle Earth. Unfortunately....they're asking $270 CAD for so that's a big "hell no!" from me.
Ouch. Then again, just discovered it's NZ$400 (CAD$330) here, which is of course stark raving insane as usual. See, Canada isn't the most expensive!
Boxes are nice; but do people use the boxes for games like this once the minis and terrain are built and painted? I wonder if there might be some way to ship in some kind of disposable packaging that would still look good in a store display?
Oh, I definitely do. I often make inserts with thin stainless steel sheets in them so I can store my magnetised minis. (Obviously the terrain has to go into plastic bins.) The boxes look good on my shelf and I can find everything easily. So I hate flimsy boxes.
I think when LOTR first came out, it wasn't so much that the models were a smaller scale, it's that they were realistically scaled (no big hands, no big heads, no big weapons). Not having such a big head does make them 1 or 2mm shorter than WHFB and 40k miniatures of the day, but more than that they lacked the bulk of the more comically scaled WHFB and 40k models. I actually really loved it back in the day, and seeing properly scaled models made me go off the "hero" scale of GW's other games.
They are in fact, a smaller scale. You're correct that they're not "heroically" portioned and more realistic, but they are 25mm scale rather than the more common 28mm. 25mm was a popular scale for historical models in the 70's and early 80's. There's video interviews with Rick Priestly stating they were intentionally scaled to that older 25mm standard.
@@Lord_Evidar Yeah, they were a slightly smaller scale too, but the main difference was the heroic scale IMO. I have some of the original Rohan models sitting on my display shelf next to some 40k models from the same era, the top of the Rohan head is roughly eye level with the the 40k model, so it, so it's like comparing someone who's 6' tall to someone who's 5'8 or something like that... BUT, the Rohan model is half the bulk, his arms are half the size, his head is tiny, the Rohan legs are slimmer than the 40k model's forearm, lol. That's why they look so different, not because it's 25mm vs 28mm (actually, I just measured, an upright Rohan model is 25mm to the eyes, an upright Guardsman is about 27mm to the eyes).
Whoops, 3mm off! Cheers.
I can understand that, the mainstream GW stuff can get a bit over the top sometimes. Big bulging muscles and giant weapons would look silly on LOTR minis.
@@EsotericOrderGamers To be fair, 25mm measured to the eyes is roughly 28mm measured to the top of the head, and in the great scale debates there'll always be people arguing for one or the other being "the one true measurement".
Did GW offer you the recently released Warhammer Underworlds Embergard new edition to review? Its more of a smaller boxed hex based game. Less models to put together per warband. Might be worth looking at if you like that style of game.
Yes, and my review is coming VERY soon! Completely different type of game to a classic tabletop miniatures one like this of course, I'd call it a boardgame.
@EsotericOrderGamers Awesome, look forward to it.
I feel the same, the films are a really modern take!
Hard to believe you never got into MESBG, it's easily the best tabletop game GW has ever done.
Wow, there's a lot of love for MESBG here!
I've been curious about the previous big box set, but the quality of the old sculpts put me off. Now this box is humans vs. humans with a few shacks included... not very exciting. Fingers crossed there will be more range refreshes in the future, the new sculpts seem much nicer!
Yes, the theme is certainly a bit dry, though of course they're riding (pun!) on the back of the new film. Still, the sculpts are very nice.
I also owned that edition of Lord of the Rings, although I have a hardback copy now. Apart from a copy of LotR Risk, that I no longer have, I have never played any of the miniatures games. I don't think that Edoras will draw me in.
Well, it's a commitment! Getting into a tabletop miniatures game is a big investment in time and money, definitely.
And here I thought proficiency in MESBG was a prerequisite for moving to Aotearoa New Zealand
Strangely enough I missed that exam at the border. I suppose they just heard about my game collection, made the assumption, and waved me right on in. 🤣
@@EsotericOrderGamers Also just wanted to agree with your point that the movie visuals now replace most of the imagination when reading the books. Glad they did a good job with the design & casting!
I really look forward to hearing more of your thoughts on the minis and the game overall once you get to playing it.
I know, imagine if generations of LOTR readers pictured, let's say, Adam Sandler as Gandalf every time they read the books ... 🤣
@@EsotericOrderGamers (Mel Gibson as Aragorn? Wasn't that a thing?)
@@pagancrew Oh the horror! It was Stuart Townsend originally and they were even just about to start filming with him. Thankfully Viggo took on the role at the last moment and threw his heart and soul into it.
Wait... you've NEVER experienced the MESBG from GW?!?! Oh my god brother... its the best combat system in a tabletop game that's ever been designed! (Well.. it WAS.. dunno about the new edition yet.. but early reviews are raving positives.. so..)
I would KILL to be in your shoes right now.. learning the system for the first time and getting my first games in.
But why is it so good then? I'm reading it now and it seems kind of clunky to me, full of special cases and extra rules for particular situations. There's even a cross-indexed table! Feels quite old-school at first glance.
@@EsotericOrderGamers I cant even try to explain it. You just have to experience it for yourself. Trust me. Literally EVERYONE thats ever played the system says its the best they ever did. Every TTWG websites do nothing but rave about it (Spikey Bits, Beasts of War etc etc.)
To steal a quote... "It just works."
and the most hilarious part is.. I cannot explain it. You just have jump in and do it yourself. :) ... and ask anyone thats played, its worth it.
When/IF you DO do a video about this (and I hope that you do, ESPECIALLY as a new player.) I'd love to hear your thoughts after a few games once you've learned the basics!
Wow, high praise indeed! There will be more videos, never fear.
No idea what the current state of the rules are for this game, but my friends and I bought the Fellowship box back when it first came out because they were talking in White Dwarf about how it was going to be a radical departure from the core Warhammer games. I was thinking something like a d10 or d100 based system, but it turned out to be another d6 cross reference chart game. We played a few games but didn't really like it. Of course being the naïve young adult that I was I still bought the next two boxed sets saying that I would use the minis in my D&D games. Pretty sure they are still in the shrink wrap...I would definitively been better off giving this game a miss. Hope you enjoy it though.
I know, my heart sank when I saw the table - but I guess this was 20 years ago. Still, a lot of people seem to love it, so we'll see ...
LOTR HOBBIT 😍😍😍😍😍
Wish the minis pre assembled
The original models were 1 part (or at most the shield was a separate part), made the models nice and fast to assemble and paint. They've gone the other direction, making them more detailed but more complex to build.
They're pretty easy to put together - not as fiddly as normal GW minis.
@EsotericOrderGamers No not my type. They should get these put together and more buyers
@ … what do they know anyway? They only made 140 million last year! 🤣