Buffy The Vampire Slayer 5x10 Into The Woods Reaction | First Time Watching
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- Buffy The Vampire Slayer 5x10 Into The Woods Reaction | First Time Watching
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After Buffy catches Riley in the clutches of a vampire-junkie, Riley makes an important decision regarding their relationship.
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I have mixed feelings about Xander's intervention. On the one hand, someone needed to say those things to Buffy, because they were true, at least about how she had been closed off, and time was of the essence. On the other, Xander greatly admires Riley and has confusing feelings about her and her love life. I disagree with him that Riley IS the guy that comes around once in a lifetime, at least not right now. He's not the man he needs to be yet. What does he have in his life? Does he go to school still? Does he have a job? Any friends? What does he do when Buffy isn't around? Nothing, except maybe cover patrolling or watching Dawn. Instead he's made her his everything and expects her to show a similar level of need for him. Not to mention, she hasn't even turned 20 yet. He's got 'be with you forever and always, don't care about anything else' feelings going and Buffy is still growing up while juggling school, her sister, her mom, the hellmouth, and a legacy she's just starting to uncover. Not to mention Riley and her friends. Neither of them is actually ready to be what Riley wants them to be. He needs his own life before seeing if it's compatible with hers.
Also Riley was really boring, though I thought Marc Blucas had good comedic timing and delivery when they gave him funny stuff.
I felt pretty much the same way. I was conflicted about Xander intervening although he made a few decent points, he was reaching talking about Riley like he was an amazing prize. Riley has been blatantly disrespectful of their relationship IMO and both he and Buffy have a failure to communicate at times. And like Buffy, I also don't like ultimatums and how he tried to make his behavior a reflection of her, like he not a grown man fully capable of opening his mouth and expressing his feelings. l feel like Riley needed a purpose after the initiative, and that purpose can't be "Buffy's Boyfriend"; like I have no clue what this man does when Buffy is busy, how does he make a living (does he still TA or go to school)...where does he live (5:40 have we seen his place since he moved out the initiative house)...does he have a family...does he visit them? I feel like you're bound to feel like you're not getting enough from your relationship when you're expecting it to be your everything in life. To be fair though, Buffy was a bit closed off and didn't allow herself to be vulnerable in front of Riley or lean on him for emotional support during tough times.
And Anya getting funnier and funnier. Willow's face when she says...she bathes you? Love the running joke that Anya reveals way too much to the scoobies for poor Xander to cope with, head in hands.
I think if Xander had made this speech to Buffy right after Riley told him he didn't think Buffy loved him it would have been more useful. Because I do think Buffy needs to hear it, but like, why wait until the very implosion of their relationship to reality check her?
This is where I have to remind myself it's a show made for the drama lol because if one of my best friend's partners said something so alarming to me, it wouldn't take me this long to tell my friend about it. And if I found out that instead of telling my friend how they felt, they started emotionally cheating with random vampire women I probably wouldn't push her back to him 😂 at least not before some serious couples therapy 😂😂
Mmmmmm you are so right! Sometimes it can be important to remind ourselves that this is indeed just a show and it's not real 😅 sometimes, it feels so real... we love these characters and are so very, very invested. But yeah, Joss wants and gives us maximum drama, that's for sure 🥹
The thing about Buffy is that even though the mythological elements are often metaphors for real struggles, they also give us the cushion of a suspended disbelief.
And that means it hits so, so much harder when there's just a regular normal illness, heartbreak, or death.
In the Buffy universe, if someone dies in an apocalypse, that's just Tuesday. If they fall down stairs, it's the end of the world.
If you re-watch the scene from last season's episode 'Fear, Itself' where Buffy is talking to her mom after being dumped by Parker, Buffy says maybe it's better to never let anyone inside. I think she's adopted that attitude ever since, not making herself available emotionally, vulnerable, reliant, needing someone. Riley said earlier that they should take care of each other but Buffy didn't go to him with what she was dealing with, she internalizes and isolates herself because "I'm the Slayer". A poor excuse to shut him out.
She may have loved Riley but was not IN LOVE with him.
I agree, however, I do think that being the slayer IS a legitimate reason for being isolated. It's a realistic side-affect of her position in the world. She's not completely in control of choosing to share everything she is going through. It's a common issue among the characters throughout the remainder of the show. How much she chooses or controls her own isolation, vs how much of it is unavoidable.
also I think by this point, the writers realized that SMG and Marc Blucas didn't have a lot of chemistry. He wasn't a fan favorite because I think most fans at the time were comparing him to Angel, and Angel and Buffy had a lot of chemistry by contrast. So they probably considered writing him out of the show because of it? If indeed he doesn't come back
Buffy also told Riley in "Doomed" that she wasn't ready for a relationship. He insisted that he knew better, after being rejected by her twice. She caved & now he's surprised that Buffy is showing that she hasn't healed enough from her previous relationship trauma to be vulnerable with him (or anyone else for that matter)? Bottom line: Riley's mistake was not taking "no" for an answer & Buffy's was not sticking to her guns when he didn't. Had either happened this whole mess could've been avoided. However, everyone making healthy decisions is not what this show is about. So here we are. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
@@arielcarmona6660Personally, I think the writers purposely wrote Riley the way they did *because* they didn’t want that character to have great chemistry with Buffy. I don’t think it was due to a lack of chemistry between the actors. It’s hard to have great chemistry when you’re given lines like he had in their picnic scene in S4, when he’s talking about driving a car. That was SO awkward.
@@stephaniebarker472 He did the best he could with the role for sure, but they didn't have that screen chemistry for sure and the fans have been complaining or commenting about it since. I am convinced writers were adjusting as they were along
I remember celebrating Gurnenthar's Ascendance when I was in college.
I'm not a Xander-hater (I know there are a lot of them out there) so I'm not going to question his motives in confronting Buffy. I've just never understood his big speech to her. I don't recognize the person and relationship he's describing to her. Riley is 'the one who comes along once in a lifetime'? That's not anything like what I've seen, so I'm just baffled. Then his closing speech to Anya is so beautiful and heartfelt and real that I'm more confused. Is it supposed to show that Xander is wiser about love than we would have suspected, so his words to Buffy must also be believed? I just don't know what to make of it. 😕
Spike is easier to understand. Spike is a complicated individual, but it's always clear what he's doing and why. Of course he's self-serving and a liar, but he doesn't lie to himself. He even knows he doesn't really have a chance ("No, I don't. A fella's gotta try, though.") With Spike, you always know what you're dealing with.
I feel like there's some missing steps leading into Xander's speech because... it operates off the idea that he knows more than he actually does and that he's closer to Riley than he actually is. We also never see him address Riley's concerns about his relationship with Buffy or offer any details, advice, or counter arguments. Xander just sits on that info and never does anything with it... then we get his speech to Buffy that, narratively, puts more weight on her than it should when she was the wronged party in the situation and had JUST discovered what Riley was feeling. It seems misguided, imo.
Riley making everything about himself...
Spike was definitely just helping himself 😂😂😂
Well, he IS a vampire... 😂
@@tinydarkjewel Really?! What gave it away???!!! 😮😮😮
@@robertoglencoco7861 His charisma. 😁😝
@@tinydarkjewel almost every main cast member has charisma without being a vampire 🤣
@@robertoglencoco7861 Not quite like that. It's the same with Dru. Those two are the most vampire vampires. I can't explain it, but no one except maybe Darla has that air about them.
Great episode..I love how polarizing it is, ppl tend to see whatever they want in it, and blame various parties..it’s..complicated, just like real life..
Mmmm yes, so true!
I always struggle with that talk that Xander gives her. I’m big part, if he was going to have this talk with her I wish it had been way sooner and before Riley betrayed her trust like that. But regardless if it was before or after Riley’s betrayal, I think Buffy needed a friend to tell her she was closed off after Angel.
It’s a common thing that happens after your first love. You fall so freely the first time that when you hit the ground (reality) it’s hard not to fear that kind of pain again. Most of us can’t help but put guards up and don’t even realize we do it.
I really don't love the framing of this episode because the end, Xander's intervention and Buffy running after the helicopter really seems to say that Xander and Riley are right and Buffy's the one in the wrong, when Riley has had an issue with the relationship since the start of the season and instead of talking to her or breaking up with her, he started shutting down just as much as she did, talked to Xander and Spike more than her, and of course went to the vampires. Like, Buffy certainly wasn't perfect, but she's been dealing with both finding out her sister kind of isn't and also her mother had a brain tumor and was threatening to die from it or in surgery, and now Riley is upset she is focusing on that instead of devoting all of herself to him? Just, no.
I think I'd have more understanding for Riley if the episode's framing had less
I don't know about that. There was a lot of wrong to go around there. I still chalk it up to them being young and still trying to figure out relationships and boundaries.
Sarah Michelle Gellar is such a great actress. I never cease to be amazed by her during this series.
She's so incredible 💜
Xander has been watching Riley fall apart the whole season, though. I think that's why he's so abrupt with Buffy, but his speech is good. I also think Xander may be seeing some of his own behavior here. That Anya may have started as his rebound from Cordelia and what he messed up there. And maybe he hasn't been treating her exactly right or letting her know how much he cares. Which is why I think he goes and tells her immediately after. That speech is not just an epiphany for Buffy. It's one for Xander, too.
Buffy running after Riley is the reason I will never believe that Buffy doesn't love Riley. People say she doesn't, but this moment and a couple previous moments just really nail that for me. Just because she can't say it out loud, doesn't mean it isn't true, but this moment is the most blatant and obvious display of it. She would never even think of giving him another chance if she didn't.
Much of what Riley says to Buffy in the training room is proof that she was right when she told him in "Doomed" that she wasn't ready for a relationship. Riley should've listened & taken "no" for an answer. I didn't like his "I know what's best for you" attitude in that episode & I don't like his "I know how you feel better than you do" spiel in this episode. Buffy needs time to heal before she can be in a healthy romantic relationship. When it came to dating Riley, she should've stuck to "no".
There's my rant for the day. Lovely reaction, as always! See you for Angel!! ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Ooh Becca, I remember that in Doomed! I didn't like that moment as it seemed very pushy. Well, what's done is done 😔 I think it would be good for Buffy to spend some time just by herself for a bit. No boyfriends. Get to know who she is, by herself 💜
Dusting 7 in 10 seconds....a new record...=))
I have a different take on Xan than most people do. We have to remember these guys are around 20 and Xan can be emotionally stunted at times. He cared but I think he likely wasn't sure what to say or if he should say anything. I believe he was also trying to give her room to figure things out on her own. In the moment, that last, very hectic and critical moment, he realized she was kind of in her own way. At least he tried, all be it a bit later than he probably should have. Outside of the show, Marc Blucas (Riley) was moving on anyway. He was getting a lot of negatives from fans if I recall right, but I do wish they came around to letting Riley go in a better way than all this but in all honesty most relationships do end messy. All things considered at least they did at least talk about it. He could have just left without a word.
In the Anya/Willow arguments, I do tend to side with Anya. Anya has had to learn an entire new identity in the past 2 years, and she has done a fantastic job. Willow has always felt comfortable with these people and is (in comparison) barely contributing to the magic shop. Willow's antagonism toward Anya feels very petty and rooted in old season 1-era jealousies. Willow, you're better than this.
Xander had a point, but I don't think it was the entire time. I think Riley after Buffy had to start focusing on her family and not on him he started changing claiming he loved her. He can very well feel like she did not love him but he never brought really brought it to her attention to fix the problem and in the middle of her mom being sick. I was in a relationship when my mum was diagnosed with terminal cancer and that relationship imploded because I could not give the person I was with what they needed but they could non understand why I did not have the emotional bandwidth to put into it at the moment and if you truly love someone sometimes you have to give them that space and not put your expectations on them when they don't have it to give
Both Xander and Spike's motivations stem from unrequited love for Buffy, not their concern for Buffy and Riley.
This breakup was already manifesting; both knew this would never last, and the outcome was inevitable.
Also, by telling Buffy that Riley was the one, he realized he was also talking about his own relationship with Anya. That's what motivated him to tell Anya he loved her.
Anyway, i hope you had a great weekend!❤
Thank you, Matthew! It was pretty good and I finished my Buffy rewatch up to the start of season 5 so I'm going to pause that for now 😅 I hope you had a good one, too!
Xander's a true friend. He knew Buffy really didn't want to hear what he had to say, but she needed to hear it. That's an emotional strength and courage few people have.
I was so impressed with Xander in that moment. He really opened up MY eyes as well. I'm not sure if that's a controversial moment with the fans or not, but I really liked it!
@@julesreactsit's only controversial with the Spuffies and Xander bashers 😂😂😂
I love Xander, but honestly I think he was just thinking about himself and his feelings for Anya (and maybe for Riley too😂) when he gave that advice to Buffy. Buffy was not in love with Riley. She wanted to be, but she wasn’t. Imagine if he had just been supportive and agreed with Buffy that Riley never should have given her an ultimatum. Or said if he needed to feel needed, then he should have said something sooner rather than gone to that vampire whorehouse. Buffy would have stayed put and never have given Riley a second thought.
@@robertoglencoco7861 Oh I'm a Spuffy, but I do like Xan. I was realizing he was arching around the time the girls were starting collage and he was trying to figure out what he was going to do with himself.
@@stephaniebarker472 I agree for the most part. However we do have to remember that ultimatum was on Riley as much as Buffy. He was also at a crossroad with a very short expiration date. He could have just left but telling her and giving her a chance to decide if she wanted to at least try to work it through was probably the better way (and let's face it, great for the drama). I kind knew from half way through the last season he probably was a rebound guy anyway but sometimes a girl can gain a bit of perspective and work out what she needs and wants, or doesn't, with the rebound/wrong guy. For the record I do love the chemistry with Spike much more than I did with Angel but neither one of them were quite right either in my opinion.
Since season 4, Xander has really been one of the best characters
He never fails to make me laugh, but then sometimes he comes out with the best advice from nowhere 🥰
I disagree.
He truly is. And YES he is deeply flawed… like any human being. He is an ass sometimes. But there’s a reason he’s the heart of the core 4… while Willow was the soul, Giles is the mind… etc. (Which was literally depicted in Restless.)
@@russellward4624 why?
@@McCrispyTaco well where was this big speech weeks ago? Riley tells him Buffy doesn't love him. Does he tell him he's being stupid? No. Does he tell him he should actually communicate with Buffy? Nope. Does he talk to Buffy and tell her what Riley said to him? Nope. He waited until it's over. Theres lots of other stuff he can't get into because of spoilers.
I guess there are observational benefits for being the normal guy... of course, the normal guy is the writer's self-insert, so...
One of Xander's best moments.
Not one of Spike's.
Spike is not trying to help.
He is evil and jealous.
Good act break with Riley and Spike.
Yup I was a big Riley Finn Fan. Finn Fan? Go Humans!!!
Go humans 🤣
A fantastic reaction with superb insights. Many fans don’t like Xander in this episode. Most fans can’t understand Riley and his behavior and think Xander is way out of line. You picked up on the great writing and theme on this episode. Most breakups are not black and white… one good and one person bad. You believed Buffy was 100% correct until… you listened and thought about what Xander was telling Buffy. It’s not if Xander is right, he’s telling what Riley is feeling And there it is. A breakup seen by many both with both right but is being right worth the cost.Thats Buffy in a nutshell. Life, the journey, and the payoffs are the net results. The viewpoint determines what is worth the journey and that emotion is not an absolute. You were exceptional in your analysis. This is a tough episode and appreciate your insights.
I think Xanders speech was quite good. But my issue with him is where was that when Rilley told him Buffy didn't love him? He should have told him he was being stupid and should talk to Buffy instead of being such an insecure doufuss.
Xander is wrong about Buffy and Riley. Spike is right. They don't work as a couple because they're both leaders and he can't accept that she's emotionally and physically stronger than him. He doesn't feel useful unless he's taking care of her. And she doesn't like to be coddled. She's the boss. And she doesn't feel deep passion for him like she did with Angel. Bottom line.
Jules❣ Really loved your insights on this one. I've been wanting to comment how much I like the Buffy/Riley arc, but didn't want to say anything until this episode. When you rewatch the end of Season 4 and 5 up to this point you see how well the writers built up to Xander's speech to Buffy, how much Buffy took Riley for granted and blew him off and how he kept spiraling. I don't think Buffy consciously knew how much Angel and Parker affected her ability to be vulnerable in a relationship. I always felt there were no bad guys in the Buffy/Riley relationship. Both are good people, both had issues and made bad decisions and that's what happens IRL as well.
Well, this had to happen. I feel that people want to blame someone here, but I think neither Riley nor Buffy are to blame. The relationship just couldn't work the way it was. Yes, Riley needed more, and Buffy wasn't willing or able to provide it. But those are things they couldn't change, at least not at this point. Sure, she could have let him in more, but she wasn't ready, and that's not bad. It just is. Sometimes things just don't work.
I think a lot of people get mad at Xander for what he says to Buffy, or they think he shouldn't get involved in someone else's relationship, but wouldn't you say something to your friend if you thought it was important for their happiness? There was no time to wait for Buffy to think it through, so Xander just pointed out her options. It was still her choice to make.
And Spike, well, yeah, obviously he was being jealous, but also, he was being the same as he'd been with Dru: he thinks he has the right to get rid of "the other guy", make a decision for her. Dru left him after that, but he hasn't learnt...
Well, Spike got what he wanted then. At least someone's happy.
I was so suspicious of Xander for a minute there. He brushed Anya off saying he had to go do some mystery thing, then appears out of nowhere after Buffy had staked those vamps and had a really weird vibe about him. False alarm luckily. I do love how he went straight to Anya afterwards and let her know how he really feels about her though.
Seeing the doctor walking towards them after the operation, the anticipation, hoping for the best but expecting the worst... I think we all felt the same feelings that Buffy and the gang experienced when the doctor told them the good news. Not only happiness but it instantly felt like such a weight had been lifted and everyone could finally relax.
Great reaction as always Juliette. Thank you, and have an awesome weekend 💜
Neil 💜
My goodness, there were some good moments in this episode. I was so weirded out by Xander there, too! He just seemed SUS. I loved that moment for him, though. It's probably one of the best deeper Xander moments, followed by that moment with Anya.
At least someone is happy 🤣
Season 5 has just been so good, Neil. I don't want it to ever end 😭
Enjoy the rest of your weekend 💜😊
56 pages left in the book of Buffy and Juliette always sees the good in people and her insights in real time bring back great memories of seeing this series for the first time. Something some reactors have lost sight of (that Jules does not) when this show first aired; we were often not sure if it was going to be picked up for a new season. Cliff hangers literally were just that. Also the budget restrictions were legendary and forced major rewrites due to cast limitations. Juliette sees through all the noise for the brilliant show it was and still is.
The silent order of ducks were slightly hopeful, but again they have been crushed. They don't think they will ever speak again. Of course the alpacas are loving it and fully support their decision. In fact they are down right giddy about it.
Me, I'm rethinking my entire life and debating about going to go live in a cave, or maybe an old mine shaft. But then there are those little green bug things from that X-Files episode that was filmed not far from my home...
Anyways, I hope you and yours are having a wonderful day.
I can see why you might be questioning everything right now 🤣 I'll make you a deal. When I move to a little farm and get my goats, if the ducklings ever get too much for you, they are welcome to come here for a holiday! It's not too far to fly, I hope. And it will give you a break 😅
Have a great weekend, Cat 💜
Loving your reactions, savouring every episode as you go on this most special of journeys.
Warren, thank you!!
As others have said, this has been coming for a while. Buffy is often about underlying themes - this episode explores how relationships can (or cannot) work between people who have serious issues. Riley's explanation to Buffy has all the signs of an addict who is selfish whilst having the illusion of caring. Buffy cannot cope with being vulnerable on any level (partly due to being the Slayer, partly due to the situation with Joyce). Spike wants a relationship with Buffy, but knows he lusts after an "idealised" version, so realises it won't happen. Xander and Anya also have their troubles (Anya having no boundaries etc) but they are willing to accept it and love each other and work it through.
Buffy also has a lot of emotional trauma from the relationship with Angel and experienced how Angelus often manipulated her feelings... then there's the Parker situation.
But also, her strongfront was reasonable considering her family situation and her actual slayer duties. Riley wanted something from her that she wasn't prepared to give at the moment... but he also doesn't know the depth of the things Buffy is dealing with because she never told him (or most of the scoobies as of this episode).
If Xander had wanted to help Buffy, he would've told her a while back that Riley felt like she didn't love him
I don't know why this never occurred to me, but, can Spike feed off of a person willing to let themselves be bit? I guess the assumption is that he knows about this place because he frequents it. Though I'm sure he still gets most of his blood from butchers.
..... Wow!! That's such a great thought! Now I'm so curious 🤣
I'm with you about enjoying feeling emotions during a show. I really appreciate this reaction, in part because watching the show with you has been the first time I even thought much about Riley, and really grew to like him. And this is the first time watching that I've cried about their breakup. Maybe my heart is also starting to open up a little after being burned from being too open-hearted.
When has Spike EVER done anything "just to help"? This was necessary, but Spike had ulterior motives, alas.
That said, I kind of hated the way that they were treating the character of Reilly here.
Finally, Xander had, in my opinion, NO right to provide his "advice" to Buffy. He hasn't been exactly the "best friend" to Buffy, ever since "the Big Lie" in Season 2. Where he told Buffy that Willow said, "kick his ass", regarding Angel. I'm in the minority of fans, I suspect, in this point of view. Xander is not a good friend here, he is intruding into a space he has no business getting into.
Anyway, thank you as always for the reaction. I always enjoy your take.
Yeah, if you watch my thoughts in the outro I talk about Spike and exactly what you said 😸 And yep, it is pretty sad the way that Riley left. It just feels wrong. But what is Buffy without some drama and sadness? We don't get many nice things, here.
Thank you, Ken! Have an awesome weekend!
@@julesreacts I think Xander is the ONLY one here that can say anything. Reilly told him that he knew Buffy didn't love him. Xander watched as Reilly basically had an existential breakdown. In a real person that might be alcohol or drugs or something similarly reckless. In Sunnydale it meant visiting a vamp nest. Xander was the only one with perspective on their relationship that was complete.
Oh and the lie in S2 wouldn't have changed that fight one micron and might have saved the world if he told Buffy what Willow was trying and she hesitated.
@@scottrabie My personal problem with this take is that Xander was aware of Riley's situation and insecurities but never had a discussion with him about it in regards to how Riley was projecting onto Buffy without actually communicating with her. Xander unloaded on Buffy, making it seem like she was solely at fault when he was aware for weeks by that point how Riley was moving. Xander also knows firsthand how Buffy tends to shutdown when she's dealing with a lot, but as far as we know as an audience, he did nothing to soothe Riley's concerns.
Yes Buffy weekend starts now!
I won't lie. I wasn't sad to see Riley go (nothing against the actor). I don't know if he was intended to last on the show. There was a definite lack of communication in their relationship. Joyce is such a warm presence. Spike did the right thing, but for the wrong reason, but he doesn't realize it. The conversation between him and Riley was interesting. Deep down, he knew Spike was right about him not being Buffy's "type".
Xander’s monologue never made sense to me, maybe (probably?) because Buffy/Riley never clicked for me. I just filed the monologue under “he means it, and obvs relationships are on his mind, because witness his monologue to Anya…but he’s just wrong.” Of course, /I/ could be wrong, so there’s that. :)
💯 Buffy doesn't really love Riley. Not like she loved Angel.
20:56 spike absolutely did it to break them up but spike said himself to riley that he did not think he stood a chance. so i don't think he expected it to lead to him and buffy. just wanted to cause mischief as evil human killing vampires do.
Forget about 'stupid Riley' and just notice how adorable Anya did look in her nighr dress - sooo sweet and cute and how she recived the great speech of Xander - best moment of them so far. The last time they have been shown that close with their feelings was in 'Hush'. Really amazing scene and with ease my favorite one of those two.
Nawww 💜 yes, that moment was wonderful! I adore Anya. I cannot believe she went from vengeance demon to this! She's incredible!
The break up, if that's what it really is (no spoilers here), has indeed been a long time coming.
I was never a fan of Riley, but I have to say they did him dirty: In the beginning he was exciting soldier boy and teaching assistant. But once the story had him leave "the military", what was he then? Did they have him go and find another identity? Or do anything interesting? Not really. He was just a wet blanket and a warm body. And that isn't satisfying on so many levels.
I have had relationships where the SO felt like her entire identity was exclusively derived from said relationship. No initiative to do anything outside it at all or maintain her own circle of friends or interests. A person cannot exist 100% in a relationship or not at all. What do you talk about coming home at the end of the day?
And while it may be flattering for a while, ultimately I feel something like that isn't sustainable. And that's pretty much what it felt like unfolded between Buffy and Riley in season five up to that point.
So that was one issue, his lack of personality. But the second one was that she was too preoccupied to love him and him not opening his mouth about it. Something people do find hard to learn; and acquiring that skill defines what it means to be mature.
Nobody likes confrontations, unless you are a sociopath, I suppose. But laying issues out on the table to address whatever is bothering either party in any kind of situation is an essential life skill. And may I add one that took me decades to acquire sufficiently. Life could have been so much easier, had I known how to deal sooner.
If he was a true friend he would have given her a heads up months ago.
I think as a true friend he was trying to keep his nose out of her private life and let her figure it out. I don't think he realized how serious it was on her end until just then.
this one is sad but im glad he left. even if they had worked it out and she had been vulnerable with him its never healthy for your partner to be your whole world. him not having a purpose here outside of her was always going to make things unbalanced. its too bad, but it was never going to work.
Honestly, I agree. It's sad as they did have really good potential :(
I was waiting for this episode, to finally say goodbye to Riley 😂Still, admittedly, the way it ended wasn't as fun to watch as you'd expect. Can't help but feel bad for the guy.
I have a lot of thoughts about this episode. Gonna share some, about the elephant in the room.
While it may seem that way at first, Xander wasn't being a good friend at all. He's good at those pep talks, but sadly this wasn't it. It was completely self-serving. It was the same old Xander who lied to Buffy that Willow told her to kick Angel's ass so she kills him; who ratted out on Buffy after she kissed Angel claiming it's due to the risk that Angel is posing; who pretended he didn't remember SAing Buffy when he was possessed by a hyena. And so on.
Into the Woods is just a more mature version of him, but it's still Xander. He wasn't being a friend. He didn't care about what Buffy really wanted or felt. Or what was really good for her or what problems Buffy and Riley had exactly or why Riley was leaving. He didn't care about the "minor" details. He didn't even care that just a few episodes ago Riley confessed to him that Buffy didn't love him. He couldn't care less that Buffy didn't love the guy. HE wanted her to be with Riley. That's what his speech was really for. Riley, the normal non-vampire (ie not Angel) nice guy Xander saw himself as. It's the same old Xander who wanted Buffy to be with *him.* Riley IS Xander, in Xander's eyes. He represents HIM. Xander is the guy that "comes along once in a lifetime." The nice guy who finishes last... and he'd be damned if he let Riley lose this one.
It wasn't the right call for Buffy to go after Riley. Troubles in paradise aside, the two just didn't fit and that will never change. We've known that for a while now. Even if she ends up loving him one day, he wanted Buffy to be something she can't and never will be. This is her, this is the package. It was never going to work out, and Xander was basically pushing Buffy for a few more days, weeks, or months at best before she and Riley break up anyway. He was pushing her for more agony (which would've ended up getting buried until it all goes ka-boom again, just like in this episode).
Buffy already feels like she will never find a guy to settle down with as it is. Every time her romance tips over she proclaims this is it for her. No more dating. No more guys. The only reason Buffy ran after Riley is because she was afraid that she'd end up alone. That he was her last chance, there wouldn't be another guy. Whether it was purposeful or not, Xander's speech was only playing on Buffy's fear.
To be clear, there's no 100% wrong or 100% right in this. BUT I'm on Buffy's side. Not just because of the ultimatum Riley gave her, which was low of him, but also because Riley has been giving her the impression that everything is fine. In Real Me, he stormed out of the house, Buffy didn't understand what the issue was and Riley wouldn't tell her. He may have been right that she wasn't there for him enough, but it's his fault that he didn't communicate. Buffy missing Riley, painful as it may be, was a good thing.
Just my two cents 😊
To sum up, Riley is not a bad person. He's not. But he needs to find a woman who needs him just as much as he needs her. Buffy is not the one. And Xander, as you said at first, needs to mind his own damn business for a change, especially when it comes to his friends' love life.
A few words about Spike. We have yet another self-serving act here. BUT, if you notice, he didn't feel that satisfied with it either. He did not enjoy seeing Buffy in pain. Other than that, you gotta admit it was a brilliant move of him, the way he got rid of his competition 😆 Also, LOVE that scene between him a Riley lol. And to answer your question, why Riley didn't kill Spike: Buffy wouldn't let him.
I cannot believe how mixed the thoughts are with regards to Riley and Buffy! People are either strongly backing Riley, or backing Buffy. Honestly? Both made mistakes. Both aren't perfect. But who is? I've noticed in the comments with this show, that if someone thinks something other than what some people think, My Goodness, it's dangerous 😅 But this Buffy/Riley situation seems particularly volatile! Might have to skip the comments when this one gets uploaded to youtube as I am not brave enough 😱
Unfortunately, I just don't think they are meant to be together. It's sad. As much as I would like them to work it out, I also think that if Buffy HAD reached Riley in time and he didn't leave, it might just be delaying the inevitable 😥
@@julesreacts That is the sign of good writing! When both sides have strong points and everybody dives into the boxing ring waving their own perspective.
When it comes to this topic in particular, I'd say a lot of it comes from hating Riley as a character and/or Buffy and Riley as a couple and/or Xander as a human being, and then there's the people who want to defend them for that reason. I'm not a fan of any of them, to be honest, so my opinion is definitively muddled by that. But I'm just trying to be as objective as possible no matter what - and I think that's the key here. Listen to all opinions and then make up your own. I've made mine after many many many (x10,726) rewatches for the past 20 years plus and so much analyzing. I can almost guarantee you'll discovered new things and views every time you watch the show, so don't feel like you need to take a side. This show is too good for that!
At the end of the day we're here for your reaction, whatever comes out. It's yours. ❤
Thank you!! I appreciate how open minded you are. This is my first time watching, and I'm already re-watching before having finished the series 😅 You are so right, my thoughts and feelings change upon second viewings, and I bet they will continue to change the more I see and watch. It's just so brilliantly done. I adore it 💜
"Riley IS Xander, in Xander's eyes." never thought of it this way but 🤯🤯🤯
@@moonystic9417 Let's switch the gender roles. Imagine a woman gives everything up for her man, especially her job by choosing him over her career. Then she becomes a stay at home wife while the man neglects her, doesn't allow her to contribute or help out with the "man stuff" because it's "too dangerous" for the "little lady." And the man whom she gave up everything for constantly neglects her and makes her feel as if she is his lowest priority. She tries to talk but he's always too busy. So she falls into a depression and even starts hurting herself. Then, through a friend, the man catches his wife hurting herself, and instead of responding with empathy, he is disgusted by her and gives her the "how could you do this to me" talk. Finally, she gets up the courage to tell him - "Love me or let me go." But all the man can hear is - "You better forgive me tonight, or I'm leaving you." The man hears this as blackmail and as an ultimatum, lashes out in anger, and calls her "unbelievable." So she leaves, hoping that he will stop her and demonstrate his love, despite him never telling her that he loves her, despite her giving up everything for him. He doesn't stop her, so she leaves. Who's side are you on now?
I could've sworn Riley's vampire feeding arc was longer.
This is one of the more painful episodes to watch for me. Because you can see there at the end that she really truly loves Riley, she'd just been afraid to admit it to herself, to him. To let him in. She was afraid of getting hurt again. And then, when she finally realizes, she's just a second too late. And he's gone.
A lot of people don't like Riley. But I think he was her best chance at a solid, healthy, lasting relationship. They had issues, both of them contributed to them, but I feel like if she'd made it in time they could have worked it out and been a permanent thing.
I've always felt that Xander's plea on Riley's behalf was doing some catharsis - he was giving the speech for who he could have been in Buffy's life as well, on behalf of another man. And once that was out of his system he could be truly open with Anya about how he felt about her
Hi Jules!
This was the moment with Xander and Anya I was hinting at a while ago. I hope you have a wonderful weekend.
OOOH nice to know, finally!!
Sometimes, people need to hear what they don’t want to hear, even if it’s hurtful. It’s the only way they can finally truly open their eyes and see what’s been right in front of them all along.
So many people miss it, and by the time they realize it, more often than not, it’s too late. In Buffy’s case, as soon as Riley got on that helicopter, it was over.
Xander has his good and bad moments, he’s only human. In this case, he helped Buffy see what she unfortunately couldn’t, but it was too little too late. A lesson in life, sometimes we need to listen better rather than jumping to what we think we know.
One of my personal favorite episodes 💛👍
Xander plays his roll well, and his role is to see things, to see everything. He see's what the others need, even if they don't. his conversation with Buffy was very confrontational, but with her that's what is sometimes needed. you have to break through her barriers so she can see clearly, and it's not always a pretty process. but even better, after delivering the eye opening to Buffy, he reflected on himself too. realizing he needed to be clear as well. Buffy a nd Riley is a tragic story, if only they had talked honestly sooner, this may have been different, both were in the wrong, and both could've made it right. finally as for Spike, what he did was selfish, even though he admits he didn't think it would win him points with her. but ultimately he did it for her, in a twisted way he tried to help, and if he hadn't, then he and Riley wouldn't have talked, and Riley probably would've left with out telling Buffy anything, which would have crushed her more. so much more is comeing, and the twist and turns arrn't through yet. love your reactions, and I look forward to the next!
I'm sorry, but I don't feel like it is bashing Xander to say that Buffy isn't responsible here. I love Xander, but this isn't the first time he's put his oar in where it didn't belong. As a friend to both Buffy and Riley, he's in a great position to have noticed things, but to dump everything at her door at the last minute is both irresponsible and cruel. Not to mention immature as heck.
It's not Riley's fault that Buffy isn't what he needs in his life. But there were better ways to handle that, too. Instead he "cheats" on her and blames her for it? No. He was hurt and did things he regretted, faire enough. But he is responsible for his own actions. Buffy didn't make him seek out vampires and put himself in an incredibly dangerous position.
Riley's great mistake was expecting to be at the center of Buffy's world. If you've ever known a Buffy (by which I mean someone who not only takes on her own problems, but also all the problems of everyone in her circle: her friends, her family, her job, etc. etc. ), you had to have learned that you were never going to get all her attention. Riley couldn't adjust to that.
I am totally fine with Riley leaving. He really is a good boyfriend(except for the suck jobs) but character wise I just never got attached to him.
Yeah, I can understand that!
I wonder if Riley's new life in the South American jungle chasing demons is like Predator?
It could be!
Riley confiding in Xander had made Xander feel obligated in some way to defend him to Buffy. Plus he remembered being the guy who had to admire Buffy from arm's length, and feels guilty about now being in a relationship with Anya where he feels empowered. Being in a good place while people you admire are floundering will definitely make you feel guilty.
I love Xander's advice and he is really the one who impact the most about events and characters decision. Even if i would like to see more of him this season. It would be better imo if Buffy and Riley werent together and just friends or gave another role to Riley but i think their relationship is very well written and realistic
Xander is a great character, and does seem to have the wisdom when needed!
not all relationships last forever,especially these days , but this one really ended badly. incompatible characters, maybe?
I have heard the crows in your yard. I watched all the "Blue Heelers" episodes and they had Magpies in several shows. Do you have Magpies in your area? We have crows here in Arkansas.
We have magpies here too but I think the crows are the "top bird" and scare the others away! My favourites are the magpie larks, which are small versions of the big magpies 😌😌
I always liked Riley but now that he no longer has a purpose he is lost. He has nothing but Buffy now and he can’t handle that she is stronger than he is.
Bye Captain Cardboard! lol
at the end of the day Buffy and Riley just weren’t compatible. He was fine in season 4, but this season saw him become codependent and worse.
The two good things in this episode were Joyce’s successful operation and Xander’s speech to Anya.
The rest of it was some of the most misguided writing in the series.
I love how they set you up for heartbreak with Joyce, only to reveal that she's fine and it's actually Riley who will be the source of the episode's heartbreak.
I love Riley, but as I've said before, while he's the type of guy you'd want your friend to be with, writers and viewers tend to want more drama to work with. And to be fair, it's always been clear that Buffy herself needs more drama and even danger.
I don't think Spike really expects this to open any doors for him, much like Xander with Angel, I think he was just acting out of pure spite and jealousy.
Speaking of Xander, this episode is a good example of how he's matured into the role which I think he's been tapped for since finishing high school. He's the steadfast friend who has an eye for what's best for his friends, especially Buffy and Willow. He'll deliver hard truths, even when they don't want to hear it. Sure, he'll still make his own bone-headed mistakes, but he can also be surprisingly insightful.
I so agree, Ashley!! I've been rewatching season 4 and Riley is just so lovely. Movie star "All American Boy" vibes, happy, friendly, strong, brave. SO good for Buffy. I just wonder what on earth the actor did wrong for them to write him out so horribly 🤣
And yeah, I loved Xander in this! He's SO different now compared to the early days. Maybe it's Anya's influence.
Have a lovely weekend, Ashley!
Marc Blucas didn't do anything wrong. The WRITERS DID. They made him the worst thing imaginable: boring.
When we 1st meet Riley he's handsome + dorky + edgy (military) but - also a bully to Buffy.
For a psych major, he could see she had "bad stuff" but never once told her to talk to a professional about her issues. NOPE he called her an IDIOT because she didn't want to date him. He's in his 20s gaslighting an 18 yearold because of his crush. Any other person & we'd say "kick his ass" but because we knew he was being set up as the "boyfriend" we let it go.
In s4, he's got school, friends, a job and a purpose. In s5 he's got??? Buffy. The writers didn't even give us a line of dialogue stating hey he's still in college or working at Burger King. Nope he basically doesn't exist unless he's being "uncared for" by Buffy.
An again as a psych major, he's pretty inept at communicating with the "most important person in his life" but has no problem telling her friend. (I also have issues with this "friend" waiting months!! to say anything. He saw the man struggling, knew Buffy closes up when under pressure - like say MOM BEING SICK but doesn't say a word to EITHER of them! Some friend.)
The WRITERS did both SMG & MB dirty in this arc. They made it clear Buffy wasn't ready for a "real" romance and made her wobble on her stance in s4. Then turned Riley into a whiny, cheating turd.
I actually liked Riley & Buffy in s4 but the actors never had that spark of Bangel. That wasn't terrible but I think it made the writers LAZY.
Also, JW stated that s5 the "love story" would be about the sisters. Buffy protecting and loving Dawn was always going to be most important.
In the end, Riley was always going to leave (given the storyline & arc of s5) but they could have done a better job of it. They COULD have kept him in the military (not initiative) and sent him on ops only to come back each time to find Buffy not needing him more & more. They could have had him get promoted & have to leave for a new post (no way Buffy could go). All kinds of ways to make it more dramatic and still get the story across.
Happy Friday Julie hope you have an amazing weekend
You too!!
I am completely on Riley's side here. I agree that he didn't belong on the show, as the scooby gang was just not his vibe. He had to leave sooner or later, as his thinking about the supernatural was definitely not on the same wavelength as Buffy's and the gang's. But, the way Buffy treated him was just terrible. She didn't even call him when her mom went into the hospital. He had to find out from Spike! Buffy thought of Riley as convenient, like an errand boy, or just a friend with benefits. She had no feelings for him beyond friendship, and even that was tenuous. Whereas Riley wanted her to love him the way he loved her. People say he should communicate with her, but he couldn't because she was never around, and every time he tried, she would just push him away.
If the genders were reversed, everyone would be on Riley's side, especially when Riley (the female) would start hurting herself due to her partner never telling her that he loves her. Buffy could have saved her relationship with Riley anytime. All he needed was love and to feel needed. It wasn't about taking care of him while her mom was dying. As he said to her, "It's about me taking care of you. It's about you letting me in." If my mom were in the hospital, my girlfriend would be the first person I'd call. She certainly wouldn't have heard it from a soulless vampire who wants me to cheat on her. Riley was saying "Love me or let me go." But all Buffy could hear was "Forgive me tonight or I'm leaving." So his final plea was interpreted as rude blackmail. The two have fundamentally different personalities and ways of seeing things.
I think dealing with personal matters, especially when a very close loved one is ill, is so very unique from person to person. I know how I would feel and how I would react, as I've been there. But it doesn't mean someone who reacts a different way to me is wrong 💜 I've kind of been dreading the comments on this episode as I know how divided people are!
@@julesreacts The only people who infuriate me are the Riley haters. They also just happen to be Xander haters (Xander is my favorite character). But you are NOT one of them. You're open minded and can see both sides, and you don't hate Riley (or Xander). I can calmly handle any opinion that differs from mine if it is nuanced, like yours is. It's the contemporary "blame the man for everything" mindset that angers me. But, like I said, that's not you. :)
My take is, in _almost_ the worst way possible, Xander actually puts Riley's case to Buffy because he may be being kind of dickish in that moment but he's not wrong (I say "almost" because the _worst_ way is the way Riley himself did it - c'mon dude, ultimatums are _never_ the way to go :).
Buffy was _the Slayer_ in front of Riley - composed, strong, in charge, basically, y'know, a superhero :) - rather than his girlfriend, which is what he wanted and arguably deserved. Nobody's really the bad guy IMO, it just wasn't a good fit.
To be fair the ultimatum wasn't exactly his fault either. I mean he was on a time constraint and he didn't want to stay stuck there if there really wasn't a chance to work things out. He wasn't telling her take it or leave it right now and this second, just to think it over and stop him from going if she thought it was something they could actually work out. It sucks but it was what it was. The break up was coming anyway. This was just a bit on the messy side as break ups typically are.
I'll just comment that....
everything you just said Jules, .... hold that thought.
Well....no more bible studies I guess :( Good news Joyce is going to be alright! Bad news, Spike is going to be even more creepy then before! Don't thing he has a chance but hell, it's going to be funny to watch!!
Great episode thanks so much Juliette! Happy Friday!
Texman! Thank you 💜 you're always so supportive and kind. I appreciate you so much!!
It's Friday here again and time for more Buffy the Vampire Slayer
my favorite character would have to be Giles and have a great weekend my friend Juliette.🇦🇺😸🇦🇺
I love Giles, too! He's been a favourite from the early days for me 🥰
I think it's funny that you of course see things from buffys perspective, whereas i tend to see things from riley and xanders point of view. 😂
Not excusing what riley did, but at the end of the day, buffy just didnt need riley as much as riley NEEDED buffy, which is what i think is the point of being in a relationship. It really sucks being on the receiving end of knowing someone doesnt love you as much as you love them.
Xander really showed how much he has matured since the earlier seasons. Buffy maybe didnt want to hear the truth. But xander loves buffy too much as a friend to let her decieve herself and lose something precious. Sometimes you have to tell people you care about hard truths to get them to see the light. His declaration to anya is also amazing.
Anyway, it seems the riley days have ended!
And joyce pulled through her surgery! So it wasn't all bad at least!
Honestly, the reason why I can understand things from Buffy's side is because I've experienced a similar situation with a loved one. I remember back to my feelings at that time, and the last thing I was interested in was dealing with relationship stuff. I know that the problems with Riley started before Joyce's illness, so it really hasn't helped the situation. But yeah, trauma and illness with a loved one absolutely comes first and it would be the exact same if Riley was dealing with an illness in his family.
But I guess it's all too late now....
@@julesreacts definitely a complicated situation. Misunderstandings definitely abounded between them this season. One thing I will say is that if riley had been more honest about how he felt to buffy earlier, this whole thing could have been avoided. But you're right, the chance has passed.
That's the great thing about season 5 though, there's good and bad throughout the season, but it is always interesting and you're never bored. 🤣 Have a great day!
It's definitely my favourite season so far! SO MUCH is happening!!
I was waiting for that look at 7:50 😂
OMG it really had me!!!
I wonder if anyone else feels like it's up to interpretation if Riley heard Buffy and chose to not look back, or if he truly didn't notice her.
Mmmmmmm!!! It's completely possible 🤯
I think he chose to ignore her. The helicopter had already taken off, even if he'd turned it wouldn't have gone back, so he chose to keep looking toward the future instead of what he was leaving behind.
Clearly, you've never been on a helicopter. There is no way he heard her.
I'm guessing you have never been near a helicopter. It's LOUD. 😄
He couldn't nave heard her.... But if he'd still been looking out for her, he'd have seen her. But once he was in that seat, he stopped looking.
And if he had seen her, what then? Doubtful they'd have landed again, but he'd have known she showed up, and maybe she'd have seen him react and known he knew... Very doubtful it could have saved the relationship, though, and it would instead have just prolonged the agony.
Bye Riley!! *Waves*
He can't see you waving, he's not looking 🤣
👍
17:20 What about Buffy? Do you think that she treated him well? The way she shut him out when Joyce fell ill is not the way to treat your partner in a relationship. Remember what she said to him? "this is a family matter" and then closing the door in his face - it doesn't get any more clear that she didn't consider him to be family. That's not even a red flag anymore, that's a gamma radiation level flag.
17:40 Sometimes confrontations are necessary. Brutal honesty is so much better than beating around the bush or saying dishonest things only to make the other person feel better.
I think what a lot of people don't really think about is how everyone behaves differently in certain situations. Yes, Buffy's treatment of Riley was not ideal at times, but also she was dealing with her mother being terribly ill. Maybe that's how Buffy deals, she shuts down and shuts people out so she can be "strong". Everyone's different, we just need to realise that 💜
I always feel conflicted about this episode - it's great to get good news about Joyce, but Spike telling Buffy about Riley is so self-serving. Also with Xander, because they'd had that conversation where Riley said Buffy didn't love him, Xander has been able to see the implosion coming for a while. I don't particularly like his choice of timing or delivery, but he's right that Buffy took Riley for granted and she needed to hear that from someone other than Riley. She's not been doing it deliberately - she's had a lot on her plate, but that doesn't make Riley's feelings of exclusion any less real. Another hard episode, Jules, but you're doing a great job! :)
Agree..I also tell ppl that like many (most..?) college relationships Riley was great for Buffy, but, we are far more likely to abandon a troubled relationship rather than work on it due to young age, availability of prospects etc. It just..wasn’t meant to be. Riley’s not the bad guy, Buffy’s not the bad girl…
Thank you 💜 it was a hard episode, lots going on, lots to take in. It's great to actually sit down and edit each episode as it gets to really sink in more! I hope you have a lovely weekend 🤗
Riley blames Buffy while claiming he's not. Xander's at his douchiest. After all that Buffy runs after Riley. Hated it.
Yes! 👏
That is a constant character flaw of Buffy’s. When faced with hard personal problems she runs away. I guess she’s like her father in one aspect.
How so? How does she “run away”?
@@johncspine2787 Well there's an entire episode called Anne that might answer your question.
@@johncspine2787 without giving away any spoilers. The big one was after she sent Angel to hell. Buffy literally ran away for months, and was about to do it again shortly after she came back home in 3x2 Dead Man’s Party. When Parker treated her badly she started making up comfortable lies to explain the situation, mentally running away. Then with Riley she is faced with another in or out dilemma and opts to walk away and not deal with it, and is only dragged back kicking and screaming to reality by Xander.
Buffy is physically brave and not afraid of a fight. But emotionally she is just as vulnerable as anyone else. More so perhaps because it is one of the few ways to actually hurt her.
Angelus:”To kill this girl you have to love her.”
@@robertmckenna3994 I would disagree..her mother said “don’t you even think about coming back..” so in one sense she was moving forward as best she could. The other instances were also not carried out as escaping. However, this is why Buffy is great tv..it’s complex, and ppl have their own opinions..
@@Tekkarath and you could also say that her mother said “don’t even think about coming back..” so she had to go elsewhere to heal from her wounds..
According to Xander, If Buffy really loves Riley she's supposed to run after him?
But why, if Riley loves Buffy, isn't he supposed to run after her? Why isn't it only on Buffy?
Riley didn't even look back.
If Riley would use an ultimatum here, he would use it again. Riley _never_ understood Buffy, not from "If you weren't so self-involved, you'd see that." When he had doubts about Buffy's feelings for him, the person he should have been talking to should have been Buffy, not Xander. If Xander really saw it coming, he should have been talking to Buffy.
But: "Oh, this so isn't about me."
Actually, it was. You were projecting harder than a 12 screen IMAX theater.
The argument a lot of people make is that Buffy never said "I love you" to Riley. And, yeah, she's probably a bit "gun shy" about saying the words considering the last time she said those words to a romantic partner was Angel and that went...badly. However, in This Year's Girl she told Riley that Faith would come after the people she loved in a context that made him one of those people. In the Angel episode with Faith she told Angel that she had a new boyfriend that she loved. And in The Yoko Factor, when Riley said "I love you so much I can't think straight" her response "Tell me about it" is an idiom indicating empathetic agreement, that one feels the same way. She did love Riley. She just didn't show it in the ways he wanted her to, and he never talked to her about that except in passive-aggressive "when you decide to let me in..." (when she was dealing with her mother dealing with a brain tumor and her having the issues with her manufactured sister). He gets upset that she doesn't break down with him when she has to be strong for others who depend on her. Her mother is fighting for her life and Riley makes it all about him.
And, yes, his insecurity about her being stronger than him was a factor, more than he wants to admit to himself.
Now, I'm not going to extend too much ire in Riley's direction. He wasn't a bad person in any way. He and Buffy had some time together but, in the end, they just weren't fundamentally compatible. If he _had_ talked to Buffy they probably still would have ended, although perhaps sooner and less painfully. But those fundamental incompatibilities meant they really weren't going to be "end game."
Oh well! At least Riley, unlike Buffy, showed up on time, so now he gets to be cowboy guy!
LMAO!! I just watched that episode on the weekend! I still don't get the cowboy guy thing OR the cheese man 🤣🤣
👋👋💖💖👏👏🙌🙌
There's a couple things I didn't like about this episode - I think the main one is the way they have the conversation about what's wrong with their relationship, but then it's "oh, if we're not giving it a shot, I'm leaving tomorrow with these army guys". And then I don't like the cliched last minute "running to the train station to catch the person who's leaving" ending. (I guess, it's subverted because Buffy is too late to catch him, and Riley doesn't hear her... but I hate that they had to do that ending to this episode anyway, that feels manipulative to me)
I think the answer to the question "why wouldn't Riley kill Spike?" in the situation where he was so angry with him is basically, because Spike was a popular character and Riley was not, and the whole storyline about the vamp-biting addiction thing was really invented as a reason to have Riley leave the show. OTOH, in universe I can kind of head-canon it that Riley instinctively knows that Buffy wouldn't like it if he actually killed Spike, and I do like the scene where post fake-out they actually sit down and talk about their feelings for Buffy - as always, it's fascinating to hear Spike's emotional insights into things.
Not much to say. Later.
Your perspective on their breakup was so mature. Most other reactors are whiny girls who hated him for feeling insecure and aloof with Buffy.
Oh yeah, Spike totally did that out of jealous spite, HOWEVER... he wouldn't have had a chance to if Riley hadn't been going off to get a suck job from the vampire girls. Riley doesn't get to blame anybody but himself. And screw Xander for trying to blame this on her. His pathetic behavior because she never fell in love with him is just disgusting, not to mention pure "Good Guy" incel energy. (Which kind of fits, considering what we've found out about Joss Whedon's real personality, and how he considers Xander the character he most identifies with.)
And before anyone pesters me about why I'm not harsher with Spike, it's because he doesn't have a soul. Him being spiteful and petty out of jealousy is *expected* of him. Riley and Xander are humans, supposedly with souls. What's their excuse?
And uuuuuugh, Riley. "I'm not blaming you, but here's all the reasons it's YOUR FAULT I'm so insecure in my masculinity!"
My comment isn’t about Buffy, but I had a question. Is X-Files like Supernatural with the FBI instead of two brothers or is it actually horror?
An easy way to answer that would be take a 20-30 minute look at one of her X-Files videos.
It kind of is like Supernatural as there is sometimes a Monster of the Week episode, and sometimes a story episode. It's not horror, more like unusual crimes and situations. Some episodes ARE a bit scary, but I'm usually a big wimp so 😅
@@tomswift3482 I would, but I don’t want anything spoiled. That’s why I asked beforehand.
@@julesreacts Supernatural should be the next show you bring to the channel.
@@twiceborn_by_grace The 1st episode then... no spoiling then.
I think with Spike he did what did for himself and for Buffy. Yeah, he's selfish but he really does care about her.
I was gonna click 👍but it's at 69 and I don't wanna ruin it 😅
Haha, go on 🤣
Riley and Xander both suck. Pun intended.
Hello, Jules.💜
Well, I do not disagree with your summation here. I see this segment as open to so many valid interpretations, that almost anyone would come away with mixed emotions over these events, and none could really be said to be wrong.
Firstly - the opening shot, traditional American TV, of the doctor walking up the hall, grim expression intact, is used so often that it has transcended red herring status, and become tradition. It can always go either way, but, until the doctor speaks, in any show here, there is no use in deciding what has happened.
Here is my very own single time seeing opinion on all this... 🧐
I was with you, at - "he's got to get his little vampire thing happening..." - Riley knows Spike has been shadowing. He has his wish requited, Buffy time, but creeps away in the night anyway, so one can easily get the idea that, even if Buffy remained caring and attentive, as she was this evening, he would still slink off into the darkness to the vamp bordelo. What happened after the point where he got up and dressed to leave Buffy was truly and only Riley's own fault Riley doesn't have pure intentions. He wants it both ways.
Spike, is a bad person, yes, but he does, whilst wishing Riley gone, have feelings and dreams which include Buffy. He has, over the course of these episodes developed an, albeit twisted, friendship/rivalry with her - he truly likes her as an opposing force, an equal, and has slowly developed a "crush" on her. So, he too, is without pure intentions, and takes the path he takes. However, regardless of motive, it is something Buffy should be shown, since Riley would certainly never tell her. I also believe that is the answer to why Riley didn't dust Spike... he knew that what Spike had done was very necessary and right.
Riley exposed, and now tries to play the "ignored my neediness" card. There is so much more to a healthy relationship, way beyond "you just don't see me need!" It remains a fact that while feeling sorry for himself, and his ignored need, he has almost completely ignored Buffy's need. She certainly could have used some support, in many different ways, since starting up with Riley, including his total failure with her Joyce situation, and Buffy's additional stress of coping with Dawn's emotions over Joyce as well. He has given measured support for all his whining about his wanting to feel needed.
Even the editing note, at 14:15, feeling conflicted and sad, contains a whole other dimension - being swayed by relationship advice, from Xander!! Yes! That is conflicting , and sad, as well!🫣🤣
And, lastly, Xander - you saying - He has a point. (Me saying, still not as sharp as the one on the top of his head!) - Berating Buffy, about her treatment of Riley, he was out of line, but I also believe, once again, not coming from pure intentions. It seems to me - as the after effect seems to support (in my own view still) that Xander wasn't really talking so much to Buffy, as to himself, about Anya. Buffy called him out, correctly. And, really, even after those words - I think it is the longest string of words I have heard Xander run together, ever - the end result is pretty much what he was demanding of Buffy - clean break! Like you, I don't know if this was the last of Riley - I am sure some "fans" will tell you, in the comments, but, for now, it seems like a pretty clean break, as described by Xander. Done and dusted, as it were.🥲
I too, in case you haven't guessed also believe Buffy and Riley just weren't meant to be. I don't really think he ever saw her as a serious mate for life. He was just selfishly crushing most of the time. Beginning with a fascination of her fighting prowess, and ending with wanting a complete domination of her focus, whilst not fully giving of himself, in return. Maybe owing to his stunted emotional growth from his militia club, but doomed and basically unhealthy, in the long run.🧐
A very eventful episode her. It is, as always, interesting to get your perspective on events, even if, as you say, it's just a TV show. It had several good bits of dialogue, including Anya, taking on lines I could easily hear Cordelia saying, were she still with the show. So drama, humor, tragedy, relief, and some sudden out of character speechifying.😅
A final question. You say that repeat viewing has led to somewhat different opinions on events. Do you feel the re-watching of this series, whilst still engaged in a first view process, is, at the same time, altering your first impression of unseen episodes?
Have a lovely weekend, Jules.💜🤗💜 I hope you have some great things in store for yourself. Relax, eat well, have Good Fun. Me, I had most of that last night so I have to pay the piper - I'm doing Friday Laundro this night... but a 10 oz steak, fries, a side of sauteed mushrooms, cheesecake, covered in cherries, and endless refills of excellent, fresh coffee is worth it.🥰
Ah, one little thing, which may lift your spirits a bit, helping someone in need. If you run into Juliette, let her know, research has shown the word, geyser, is pronounced in both the American and British manner, in Australia - guy-zer, and ghee -za, so, whichever she says, she will always be correct! 😂
Take care! 😊
Ooh Tom 💜😸 I was so interested to hear your thoughts on this one! So reading them has been so delightful. I'm genuinely feeling nervous and worried about the comments for this episode. I've kind of been dreading it leading up to this point, as the Buffy Supporters and Riley Supporters can be so very divided. Both parties made mistakes. Both weren't perfect. I don't feel I'm on anyone in particulars side due to that, though I can understand what Buffy went through with dealing with a sick loved one as I've been there too. I really didn't like how Riley was still so emotionally needy during that time, when Buffy had no more emotions left to give as her situation with her mother is exhausting, physically and mentally.
It sadly seems they were just not meant to be, and the cynic in me has me wondering what Riley's actor did to make Joss annoyed as he really did seem to be in some really bad situations. It's almost like a repeat of poor Oz and what led to him leaving.
I know I tend to get really invested in this show and sometimes I forget that it is just a show. It needs drama, surprises, bad things, to keep it exciting. As much as we might not like something happening, it would be boring if they were all sitting in the Magic Box drinking tea and playing cards for the remaining seasons.
And I've just now finished season 4 (will have to pause the rewatching for a bit as I'm too close now haha) but watching them again doesn't alter how I'm viewing future episodes, but I feel it gives me more understanding of past episodes. So, seeing Riley in season 4 and how things were with Buffy mostly makes me feel sad because they could have been great together and should have been great together. I'm noticing things with Spike that make sense NOW and makes me smile to myself. Anya has been a delight to see again from the beginning, and how she's grown to such a great supporting character. And Tara, too! It was so lovely to see her from the start.
I'm utterly delighted to learn about the geysers. I'm sure my twin Juliette will be thrilled as she is just DREADFUL at pronouncing things in the first place. You should hear how she used to pronounce "profiteroles". What an idiot 🤣
Tom, thank you. Enjoy your weekend and take care. Today I am off to the hardware/gardening store as I want to plant some herbs 💜 I'll be playing some more Supermarket Simulator and practicing my flying in Outer Wilds as I'm a bit of a rough lander 🤣 Your dinner sounded absolutely amazing. I'm not jealous. I'm NOT. Why don't you believe me?! I'm not very convincing, am I 😆 BAH!
🤣No I believe you! 🤣 I should like to hear a stab at "profiteroles" some time 🤣
It's simply appalling 🤣
Herbs have been purchased! Let's see how garden attempt number... well, who knows... works out this time!
Xander is right.
Spike is definitely not trying to help. He's been manipulating Riley from the start to lead to exactly something like what happened. The whole running for the helicopter thing was ridiculous but Xander was speaking some hard truth. What really sucks is that they took all agency away from Buffy in the matter of the breakup.
Yeah, honestly I was thinking about this episode for a while later and I was also rewatching season 4 at the time when things were nice and lovely between them, so it does suck that this happened.
I love and hate this episode. I've thought about it a lot over the years and I can't help but feel that the episode agrees with Riley's nonsense perspective more than Buffy's and I'm not a fan of her running to him, think it's a mistake for a bunch of reasons. He has made a terrible mistake out of his own sense of inferiority and paranoia and he gets what he deserves for acting on it. Buffy handled that situation brilliantly and the episode still acts like it's a debate with valid sides. I also really hate Xander here with him acting like "I the wise man saw it coming, I saw the truth of this when you could not" Riley literally said "she doesn't love me" he was told about this and chose not to say anything and then lord it over her and he completely takes Riley's side without considering his close friends feelings disgusting and I have no idea what they were thinking with that. I have much more to say but a YT comment is not the place for all that.
You said it better and in more detail than I did.
@@haydn60 Thanks
@@alex.9398 A human being in pain as a result of their own feelings of inferiority and insecurity should elicit compassion and empathy from any decent person, not mockery and dismissing his human fears as "nonsense." Yes, this is a debate with valid sides, but your lack of a heart and lack of empathy for human flaws prevents you from appreciating it. Perfectionism is probably the worst cruelty that human beings inflict upon each other. And it was not Xander's place to betray Riley's confidence like that.
@@davidmeadows5627 It's really not perfectionism that he should remember her mother is in the hospital and thus his need for attention and constant validation can take a back seat for a little while. Also as a friend to both of them yes it is his place to do that or at the very least not act so smug and superior when he only had prior knowledge by being directly told it.
I think the writing tries too damn hard to make us feel empathy for riley and their relationship when they CLEARLY weren't a good match. Buffy was dealing with her things, with her mother, and sad needy puppy was going behind her back to satisfy his neediness instead of being sympathetic to everything she was going through and giving her the space she needed. I disagree that what Xander said was true. Xander was completely on the wrong, in my opinion. He is not the one who was that toxic relationship. That was buffy's thing to deal with, he wasn't in the right by trying to enforce his opinion on how she was feeling.
The thing is, he didn't really enforce his opinion. Yes, he did share his opinion, however he did tell her *IF* she didn't think he was the guy then let him go and make it a clean break. But *IF* she thought she could love him, really love him, then go after him. She chose. She ran. She was too late.
I actually hate the speech Xander gives to Buffy. It's my least favorite moment in Season 5. I think he's wrong. I dont think Buffy does or can love Riley that deeply. The real passion just isn't there. I'm always happy when she misses the helicopter. When this first aired, I remember my mom & my sisters and I cheering when he didn't turn around to see her. 😂
By your own comment, Xander is right. Because Xander doesn't make the decision for Buffy, he just lays out the two options in clear contrast. If Buffy doesn't or can't love Riley that deeply, then it is unfair to Riley, and she should just "let him go, make a clean break." It's Buffy who thinks that maybe, just maybe, she can. Sure, once she's made the decision, Xander supports it. (And then the universe, by dint of its timekeeping and distance laws, makes the opposite decision for her.) But it's Buffy that decides to run, not Xander.
@@menachemsalomon No. Because he says that only after telling her repeatedly that Riley is her true love, the guy who only comes along once in a lifetime, think about what you're about to lose, etc. He's gaslighting her into thinking this is all her fault and she's about to lose her soul mate. B.S. She's better off alone than with a dude she's obviously settling for.
Riley is the worst. Hes so imature, selfish and insecure he makes me sick. When Angel came to town he assumes Buffy cheated on him. I mean what kind of person does he think Buffy is? He claimes its not about needing a weaker women but he totaly does. Buffys mom could be dying and he makes it about himself. Hes upset that she doeesnt crybon his shoulder every night.
I wonder about that. What is the appropriate etiquette for meeting an ex, once you're in a new relationship? Did Buffy keep to that etiquette? Does someone not keeping to that etiquette deserve suspicion?
Im sorry but I dont agree with Xander in this.
That's absolutely fine 💜
Xander with the ultimate '''gaslighting''....... yes he was correct that Buffy needed to make a choice, but Xander used his scenario to drive it.....
the ultimate Xander ''NICE GUY'' move. Riley can kick rocks, Buffy needs to hang out with Buffy for a while..... Spike was a dirtbag as well, but he did the right thing, just the wrong way.....
There were no good dudes in this episode..... even Giles thought he was better than me, because he could read and write and stuff.... Giles did nothing wrong, he is just caught up in the wake.....