"I'd like to test that theory" was actually my first ever scene from the show. You can imagine I was immediately hooked. Caught it by chance when zapping channels. Next week, I was there for the season finale, and ran after reairings so when Season 7 came out I was caught up. What a show. I luv it.
Thats insane. Watching Willow journey knowing where that was leading was probably pretty fun. I took a looooong time to watch season six cause In my country buffy was on cable tv and by the end of season five I couldnt afford it anymore. And one day at my grandmas house there was a season six finale marathon and my brother and I where shocked to see what was happening
Some friends were watching "Villains" and I was half-paying attention, until Willow flayed Warren. Instant fan right there. I immediately went back and caught up before Season 7 started, and it was my all-time favourite show until Supernatural claimed the title around Season 10.
Dark Willow doesn't actually come out of nowhere. At the end of season two GIles warns Willow that if she casts the soul return spell she might open a door she can't close again. Tara warns us multiple times about the dangers of over using magic. And since the beginning of season six the clues have been there. This show always extracts a price for things and bringing Buffy back demands a huge one. Willow sacrificing the innocent little deer was jarring, but isolated so we forget about it. The addiction stuff, getting Dawn hurt, and the horrible abuse of Tara's mind soon follow, but what really did it for me happened a bit earlier. When I saw her threaten Giles in the kitchen when they were talking alone . . . Giles! That was the first time I thought Willow might end up being the big bad.
My head Canon was Giles was with his ear to the front door waiting for the right moment to make an entrance going "no, not yet, she not set me up for a pun yet" 😂
Were we? I remember “Two to Go” and “Grave” airing and being billed as a 2 hour finale. It was still an awesome reveal especially with the extended opening credits resuming after Tony Head appeared onscreen, but I don’t think the UPN network even bothered to rerun credits when “Grave” started after the top of the hour.
@@matthewwilliams2093 in Brazi we waited for a VERY long time. I took more than a year for every season to premier and the forever for all the episodes to air. :S
And here is Willow, deep down the same insecure girl as shown in "Restless." If she had stopped to think, she'd realize that Tara loved her because there was more to her. And Bufffy is right - being a Slayer is not about killing or the power. It's about service and sacrifice.
It wasn't cruelty adding Amber Benson to the titles. The staff of this show worked HARD, asked for favors and begged the network to get her in the titles for at least her last episode. The creators of the show have to work under budgets but they fought hard and got Amber the recognition she deserved for her last episode. For networks it's all about money and they really don't care about the creative process the creators put in or the hard work of the actors.
Amber Benson seems to have made different comments over the years about why she wasn't a series regular, but I gather that her most frequently repeated one was that it was her choice. She wasn't much interested in doing television, but thought Buffy was a cool show, so made an exception. She was just unsure she wanted to commit to being a series regular and being tied down to it. (Though given how many episodes she ended up doing in comparison to Seth Green and Marc Blucas, she may have had second thoughts after her stint was over. In other interviews she has suggested that as well.) As to the "cruel joke" of her being in the title sequence only when she died, that's been interpreted in multiple ways also. (a) Cruel joke. (b) Tribute she had long deserved, and since no unwanted contractual obligation would now be involved, no strings would be attached to it. (c) Not just a tribute, but a financial recompense-main cast means residuals. (Don't know how that works, but I've seen it claimed.) Ultimately, killing her off seems to have been a long term plan, part of the Dark Willow arc. Some of the show runners have expressed subsequent regrets about using Tara to bring it about. But look, it was clearly made easier-almost too natural a choice, I'd say-by Amber's reluctance/ambivalence or whatever about signing a main cast contract. Not saying I LIKE the direction the show went in Seeing Red. But I think the reasons are complicated, and fits the humans as the worst villains/life is hard theme well, and I'm willing to cut the writers something of a break. I hate Hell's Bells way more. The leaving someone at the altar trope? THAT episode I see as not just manipulative but sloppy.
killing her off was definitely a long term plan considering that it was meant to be Oz and that Joss mentioned it to Seth Green as a way to sway him to stay.
It was absolute genius to put his name in the END credits, too. Everyone who watched the show got to know the actors' names so any time a name like Juliet Landau popped up on screen we immediately knew Dru would show up somewhere in the episode.
I'm glad you managed to push through to this episode. Giles entrance will always be stunning. I think you'll really enjoy the next one. It's very good with some great things happening.
Frankly, I wouldn't care if Willow had killed the Trio. I think this show overstates all that stuff about killing any humans being such an unrecoverable turning point. We've seen both Buffy and Giles kill humans and in Giles' case it wasn't even in self-defense and that's not even mentioning Faith and her redemption arc.
@@DunybrookThis journey for Willow would have broken her more and more the further she went on it. They may have never gotten her back. It's not just about killing humans, it's about who Willow is and what this journey would mean for her. When Giles killed Ben it wasn't an irredeemable direction or line crossed beyond return for him just because it was killing a human. Still very serious, but the context is different for Willow.
@@Dunybrook She wouldn't stop with the Trio, though. Once she had nobody left on her list, she'd start feeling the pain again. She'd need a new vendetta to distract her. If she killed Jonathan and Andrew, she's already crossed the line of condemning those guilty by association. After that, she'd probably start looking for anyone who might have been in a position to do something about Warren in his earlier life: maybe a guidance counselor at school didn't recognize the early warning signs or his parent(s) didn't do a good enough job raising him. So she goes after them, because they helped make Warren into the guy who killed Tara. Of course, as Buffy and the others keep trying to stop her, they find their way onto her list eventually as well.
Giles' entry is so badass, i get chills every time watching this! He never should have left in the first place. And yes agreed, shout out to Alyson playing this role. I really like that you take your time to share and express your thoughts!
The thing is, this is who willow always was, what she says about herself is the wya she always thought of herself. Tara was the only thing keeping WIllow from going this far off the deep end before this. This is the natural evolution of Willow's expiriments with magic, and magic was always the cure not the disease in willows case. The cure to her self loathing. Perhaps that's why Faith and Willow could never stand each other, they were to similar.
The fact that the Big Bad was Willow and not the Trio was pretty smart. What turns Willow into this ? The lost of Tara, of course, but also the fact that the Scooby's are fighting Evil since six years... and are facing that simple humans can be as horrible and disgusting as demons. Also a good approach to deal with the "weapons" subject in the US. Two times, at least, during this season, Buffy throws a gun away and says to its owner "These things? Never useful!". She also says to Riley "I'm not exactly Gun Girl"... Another very interesting point is how Anya suddenly becomes so human and serious. She's no longer the goofy character who seems disconnected from the mortal issues. She turns back to demon... and yet, seems more human than ever. Because she kind of lost her innocence, and knows now too well what a mortal life carries with it.
I very much prefer your hesitant stance towards this story to that of those reactors who celebrate 'dark Willow'. To me it means that you feel what's done to these characters in an empathic way and take them seriously.
I feel like there’s 2 types of fans - those who don’t see it coming at all and those that have been waiting for it since the start of the season. There have been plenty of moments showing willows reliance on magic and her unstable emotional state. There have been plenty of instances showing how dangerous the trio actually are. It was always leading to some form of tragedy.
Great reaction To a great episode from Season 6. Loved especially your face after the return of Giles. Only 1 more episode to go in season 6. And then only 1 more season.
Amber explained in an interview, that she was told during filming of 5x22. And that it was delayed mutiple times and not meant to hurt anybody. When Seth wouldn't have left the show in S4, Oz would be in Taraa place, pushing Willow over the edge. And at least to me, putting Amber and Tara in the intro of that episode is an act to honor both. Amber wasn't in the main credits cause she wanted to be flexible in her schedule but back then - and maybe also today - being in the main credits meant to be paid for every episode, even those where not appearing, but also to be avaiable during the whole filming period of the season.
The cop saying that they would be safe there, to me, was a moment when he was retreating back into his training. Back into a comfy sense of normalcy. While also seeing the wall breaking apart, and not knowing what to do about it. So, he just comforts, and hopes not to die.
Willow making that comment of being the sidekick for years, also puts into perspective what Xander must be feeling inside as well. We've seen glimpses of it over time how he's the only one that doesn't have powers or isn't a supernatural being. In this episode, we see his frustration after Willow messed his car up in the forest and Buffy took off running cuz she has the speed due to being the Slayer. He doesn't. And you see him pound the hood of his vehicle with his fist cuz he feels useless. Heck, we saw a whole episode of him feeling useless and wanting to help and be a part of that help in "The Zeppo". And now he has finally voiced it to Anya because now it's about his best friend Willow who's at risk of being lost to the dark side and become what they've signed up to help stop: the enemy. That scene always makes me tear up. I feel for him and I can relate. It's awful when all you wanna do is help but others think you can't or you're not capable of helping and you just get pushed off to the side. It makes you feel less than. And all you want to do is something, anything and they just say no. And with Willow, we've seen her be ignored since the start. She has been acknowledged as the smart one or "the nerd" but never been given that role of leading. I'm sure that if she were to talk to Xander, he'd tell her that he sees her as someone just as important as the Slayer. To Xander, his besties are these strong leaders. They usually know what to do when he doesn't and he goes to them for help. And we got to see how bothered Willow was when she was referred to as being the sidekick last season when Spike was pitting them against each other as part of Adam's plan. She was already seeing herself like a leader. And I think it could've started way back at the end of Season 2 when she was the key to bringing back Angel and returning his soul. After Buffy left for L.A., that's when she began to get into magic. I'm not sure if it was because Buffy left and they needed someone strong to help patrol at night and stop the bad demons/monsters or she got into magic because her boyfriend is a supernatural being (werewolf) and must match his supernatural strength or she actually liked doing magic and wanted to master it or all of the above. I mean, when Buffy left for L.A., Willow did become a leader for a few months. Same thing happened again when Buffy died. She was basically leading everyone and back at it again with using magic to bring her back. She felt strong and powerful, I guess. You could say, this was a long time coming much like Daenerys going mad and needing to stopped.
Top 3 Buffy quotes the "i like to test that theory". That scene is AMAZING. Giles really had to be out for this season to happen. Its basically unsupercised kids screwing up
Watching this in first run was so shocking, but I always loved Dark Willow and Alison’s acting of this side of her. Oh just wait for the next episode the end will be so powerful
A great title for this episode Willow now in true 'Darkman' mode, revenge is all that is driving her, and the other two, Andrew and Jonathan seem doomed. Anya explaining in a matter of fact way to the Prison Guard what is going to happen is very funny. Her chase is relentless, and the scream she lets out outside the Prison is really chilling. The other part of the story arc is Spike's quest to complete the tasks. Prophetic words indeed when Buffy says is she is running low on magic power, she is gonna need to juice up soon, and we switch to the abominable Rack. Willow of course is now more powerful as him, and takes his strength. The Willow and Dawn conversation is interesting, with Willow's now piercing eyes looking straight onto Dawn's mind. Willow saying to Dawn you weren't always human, and why is she crying as she is just a mystical ball of energy, this is so hurtful to Dawn. Funny too when Jonathan and Andrew are arguing and Anya says ' the annoying Virgin has a point '. Great dramatic and painful conversation in The Magic Box with Xander and Anya. Willow's great scene with Buffy at Rack's where she seems to release all her pent up anger and hurt she has endured over the years of Bullying and being thought of as a nerd, and now feels she has the power to take revenge on all is a very interesting concept from the writers, it seems now as she refers to herself as a 'junkie' but feels the need to get even on everybody. The killer line here is when Willow says to Buffy, 'you hate it here even more than I do'. We switch back to Spike briefly to see he has more tasks to complete, which is interesting as this story is sidelined here as the main event is in the Magic Box, but the Spike storyline even though peripheral here, is probably the most important for the whole Series! The Buffy/Willow showdown was inevitable. It seems so bitter when Willow says to Buffy 'years of being your sideman' there seems to almost actual hate and jealousy towards her here, she is of course just too powerful now, but a brilliant ending scene Willow is thrown across the room, and we see the return of a 'juiced up' Giles, great satisfaction for the viewer here setting up a great Finale.
Everything goes predictably untl the surprise ending, heh... but yeah, Alyson knocked it out of the park. Pretty sure she got an award for it? Or at least her performance throughout the show.
I have watched all your supernatural convention reactions... Nd i loved them.. u should definitely try reacting to Jensen's singing nd continue reacting to convention videos
And Jonathan utters and embodies the ttheme of the season, growing up. Willow has not, as is clear,, been able to grow up rent through as she is by the same self doubts she had in season one, self doubts that have been resurrected thanks to someone also unable to grow up, Warren. And Xander, well he is stuck in arrested development. Etc., etc., etc. Never been passed on the M1 by a semi tractor running rull throttle?
What’s super crazy is I love Willow way more than Dawn. But if she had hurt or eliminated Dawn I don’t think I could have ever forgiven her. I’m so glad she didn’t. I really thought Anya would get it though. With her being so disconnected from the group but close enough to hurt like heck if she bit the dust.
oh, warren was very much the "bad". yes, he was an incompetent bad, and we're seeing the results of his recklessness rather than some master plan, but none of this happens without his malice.
@@sirmoonslosthismind Willow was bad all season she's the female Warren she erased Tara memory to get her way with her Warren did the same to Katrina now Willow like Warren is getting her murder revenge for some reason people don't see it.
I've seen the whole series the first time it was on and without spoiling anything this version of Willow was necessary for season 7 and what they planned for season 8 before the show got canceled
Men c'ant feint the initial response is to be full of adrenalin if there is a problem or smtgh wrong or if we see magic ^^ freek our perhaps but feint is only little girls :)
You started off that you weren’t over Tara yet. There are millions still not over it and probably never will be. Dark Willow has been evolving in front of us since Becoming, Part 2. In the brilliant 2 parter the clues start with Whistlers voice over. Part 1 shows the points that changed the directions of Angel, Darla, Drusilla, and Buffy They were in flashbacks simply because they had already occurred. Part 2 shows the origins of Spikes obsession with Buffy and also Willow allowing and then embracing the darkness/ evil of the dark gypsy magic curse. Willow is warned not to do it but she does and she shows the first hint of Dark Willow. The slow change in Willow has been there and moving forward since then. Tara is often referred to as light and shown has a bearer of light. With the light gone, nothing can stop the darkness. The base of the evil is rooted in vengeance and that is the spark .The Willow of the first 34 episodes has been slowly replaced by Dark Willow. One of the greatest misdirections in entertainment and it takes a close rewatch to grasp and see the story. but when you are watching you can see the changes taking place.
Something I have to ask now. You said you'd rather have Tara than Dark Willow, and I agree. But would you rather have Tara than *Giles*? Because he probably wouldn't have come back without Willow going dark. lol I personally would still choose Tara, hands down, but... lol
I think we would all prefer to have Tara, however i loved this season. And Dark Willow is one of the best characters oftrhe entire series!! This episode is truely amazing and i think all the women in this episode show strength including dawn! And all 4 of the actors Emma, Michelle, Alyson and SMG were phenomenal in this one!
Well... your "numbness" is kinda understandable. 20 years later I still don't know if I would have preferred to have Tara stay alive, or to have that awesome finale (I kinda consider Villains, Two to go and Grave as a 3 parts finale). This episode alone rises the epicness of the whole season from a level or two... Not that it's bad per any mean, but when you compare S6 with previous ones, it definitely lacks of good fight scenes. This one with Buffy vs Willow is up there with the Buffy vs Faith we had in S3 in term of dramatic intensity.
American trucks are not limited to 50-55mph, USA have no such safety laws like the rest of the entire world have, they can go full speed unlimited to what the engine can do
Partially true. While there is no federal law forbidding it, there are state laws and most companies have governors on their trucks that limit their top speeds.
That's just the price we have to pay as fans for watching Whdeon shows. He loves giving us hope and then killing off our beloved characters. He does it in every show. It is what it is but as time passes you learn to accept it even if you don't agree with it.
I honestly wonder why people see that as a cruel joke. When this first aired, i saw that as a tribute. It ws her last episode, and they gave her a credit as a main character...like what?
"I'd like to test that theory." I"m pretty sure I cheered at that moment when I first saw this episode. It was such a relief to see Giles come back. Up to that point, I really had no idea how on earth anyone would be able to stop her. No one was getting through to her. For him to return was perfect. I love Giles so much. I have a lot of issues with the Willow storyline from this season, especially because the whole "magic = drugs" seems so heavy-handed. I get the premise, I get the point, but it feels like an afterschool special (albeit a much darker one, with flayings, lol). I just feel like they're hitting us over the head with that message. Even in this episode, they had to go there with the over-obvious comments like Dawn saying "you're back on the magics" or Willow calling herself a junkie. Those parts make me eyeroll. I think it's more believable and natural of a storyline for Willow to expand her powers, enjoy the power it gives her, and want to do more, without all the need for stating it outright as some sort of drug addiction. It feels a bit insulting to the audience, especially because they've written such subtle and beautiful episodes where they didn't feel the need to hit us over the head like we're stupid. For example, "The Body" showed us the heartbreaking loss of a parent in so many scenes with very few words, just actions that we can all relate to, and the words they did use were powerful and poignant and perfect. I wish they had approached Willow going into dark magic that way. Also, I think the loss of Tara would be enough to send Willow over the edge like this, without the need to hit us over the head repeatedly with the "you're an addict" message. Willow didn't go back to magic because she was craving a fix. She went back to magic because Tara was murdered right in front of her, she's not getting Tara back, and she's completely gutted by that and filled with rage at her love being taken away from her. That's plenty to stir her into taking these kinds of actions.
I totally agree. I think Willow turning to dark magic for reasons like craving admiration, power, revenge and control is so much more interesting than this weird drug analogy they turned it into. Even in these last 3 episodes, whenever they bring Willow's issues into it, it is so much more captivating. Willow's speech about how she was always a loser? How Tara is gone and waste like Warren gets to live? That's what made this storyline at the end great. The thrown in junkie comments are just distracting and irritating.
@@4Tom4lepus4 Yes! Exactly! Well said. Especially you mentioning that comment she made about how Tara's gone and a waste like Warren gets to live... that was dark and true and natural to what she was going through. That kind of stuff is what makes it so powerful as a storyline for Willow.
@@sherrysink3177 I really wonder why they went that route considering Willow's dark turn was foreshadowed quite a while before they ever had that weird drug analogy. Her revenge in season 4, her going after Glory, her raising Buffy... One of my favorite moments of the season was her threatening Giles. Because he made her feel like a bullied high school kid again. I think they should have explored THAT more!
Why tara? Because its the only thing that could make her react that way. As much as people love her, she was always a side character and a tool for narrative development for willow. I get not liking that but was the only thing that made sense to me in terms of how she reacts.
I've come around a bit on S6, but I still find the entire Dark Willow story to be so predictable. It's not even subtle. "You're back on the magicks". Sigh.
I'm more or less with you on this. The Dark Willow arc is amazing, and it injects a whole lot of new energy into characters and dynamics that might otherwise feel a bit too static, and all sorts of other ways in which it's good writing... but I think I'd still rather have Tara. In terms of episodes, The Body was more crushing, but just in terms of the effect of the character being dead, Tara's death is probably the hardest for me in the whole Buffyverse.
I love this episode, but it annoys the hell out of me that Willow is able to fight Buffy. She gives herself super strength like Buffy, but she doesn't have Buffy's skill or martial arts expertise or years of training. With Anya chanting to stop her from using magic firepower, Buffy should have beaten Willow unconcious in 30 seconds. The only logic I can cling to is that Buffy is clearly holding back, trying not to hurt Willow any worse than necessary, whereas Willow is giving it her all and getting off on standing toe to toe with Buffy.
your assumption that willow wasn't magically skillboosted is really strange given that the slayer herself is magically skillboosted. yes, buffy trains, but most of what she does against the forces of evil comes from being the chosen one, not from any training. there's surely other magic that does similar things.
@sirmoonslosthismind No, when Buffy becomes the slayer, she has no martial arts knowledge or fighting skills, just heightened strength & agility, etc. She has to train and learn all those skills. Suddenly, Willow's just doing flips and she's shape-shifted into Faith's literal stunt double, matching Buffy's moves which have taken her 8 years to master. It's just a cheat.
@@nathanielbacon2661 actually no, when slayers are chosen they get the raw abilities and skills from the previous slayers. This further honed through training. We see this multiple times when she's training with Giles in season one and she has weapon accuracy and skill beyond her training thanks to being the Slayer. Willow's unnaturally boosting herself to buffy's level. That's coupled with Buffy holding back allows willow to fight on equal footing.
@latraeosborne3287 Untrue. Slayers have enhanced reflexes and agility, which obviously makes it easier to learn physical skills. But Buffy has already been trained by a different watcher for a year before we even see her meet Giles. It's illogical to assume she didn't have to learn those skills. In the flashbacks from Becoming, we see Buffy fight her first vampire. She not only has no martial arts skills, but misses the vampires heart...because she hadnt trained yet. She wouldn't HAVE to train at all if it worked the way you're suggesting. She's not spending all that time practicing for years if she's naturally got it without trying. Lol.
@@nathanielbacon2661 actually very true. I can go weapon for weapon. Crossbows: Ask Giles to train her but we never see it. She picks it up the first time to fight Angel in season 1 she immediately knows how to use it. Swords. In her flashbacks, first movie and the show, she is never shown training with swords but proficient enough to beat Angelus, someone whose fought with swords for over two hundred years against multiple different opponents. Rocket launcher, immediate know how in aiming and firing. She actually has rudimentary use of her skills in that fight but not honed like I said. She missed the heart because it was the heat of battle and she was scared, not because she wasn't trained enough albeit that play a part as well. I said she has the basics innately down pat. Which is why she trains to hone them to a higher degree. That's how it works.
Yeah, they didn't give the audience any time to process Willow's dark turn. Everything changed in an instant. Tara died, Willow absorbed dark magic, killed Warren, tried to kill the other 2, almost killed Dawn, fought Buffy, all within 3 episodes. This all after she already went through the magic addiction and kicked the habit. Season 6 is my 2nd least favorite season after 4. There was just so many out of character things happening and events that no one wanted to see happen on the show, like Buffy and Spike hate-f'n each other, the magic is a bad drug thing, Spike attempting to rape Buffy, Willow going bad, Xander and Anya falling out, etc. Joss Whedon just hates happiness. He's a great writer but man, sometimes I wish he we would let the audience have some hope and let it stick.
Spike trying to rape buffy was not out of character. I know spike groupies like to claim that, but it's just plain wrong. Remind me how Spike was gonna try to get Dru back on season 3...
@@Square-ow7oq I'm certainly no Spike groupie. In fact, I was never a fan of his coupling with Buffy. And yeah, he was going to cast a love spell on Dru but that was Dru. They never had a stable relationship either, because she was unstable. Buffy was a different story. He always cared for her, even if she didn't return the feeling. Nothing about how he treated her before made the attempted rape make sense.
I never bought into the whole Willow-as-magic-addict plot. It's out of character. This season tore down all our characters and we're supposed to accept these are lessons in becoming adults. And Buffy being bested by 3 nerds while she sleeps with Spike, just not believable. There's plenty of drama but most of it is bad.
To this day I STILL get chills with that entrance made by Giles! Anthony Head's performance is great. So is Alyson's. Really the whole cast.
Amazing that the glorified librarian with a dark past gets what may be the most badass entrance in the entire Buffyverse.
That was good, but I prefer the ending of the next episode.
"I'd like to test that theory" was actually my first ever scene from the show. You can imagine I was immediately hooked. Caught it by chance when zapping channels. Next week, I was there for the season finale, and ran after reairings so when Season 7 came out I was caught up.
What a show. I luv it.
Thats insane. Watching Willow journey knowing where that was leading was probably pretty fun. I took a looooong time to watch season six cause In my country buffy was on cable tv and by the end of season five I couldnt afford it anymore. And one day at my grandmas house there was a season six finale marathon and my brother and I where shocked to see what was happening
Some friends were watching "Villains" and I was half-paying attention, until Willow flayed Warren. Instant fan right there. I immediately went back and caught up before Season 7 started, and it was my all-time favourite show until Supernatural claimed the title around Season 10.
This was actually my first episode too weirdly enough
Dark Willow doesn't actually come out of nowhere. At the end of season two GIles warns Willow that if she casts the soul return spell she might open a door she can't close again. Tara warns us multiple times about the dangers of over using magic. And since the beginning of season six the clues have been there. This show always extracts a price for things and bringing Buffy back demands a huge one. Willow sacrificing the innocent little deer was jarring, but isolated so we forget about it. The addiction stuff, getting Dawn hurt, and the horrible abuse of Tara's mind soon follow, but what really did it for me happened a bit earlier. When I saw her threaten Giles in the kitchen when they were talking alone . . . Giles! That was the first time I thought Willow might end up being the big bad.
This.
Agreed. Also, Tara wasn't even the first loved one to express concern about Willow using magic... Oz did at one point, too.
My head Canon was Giles was with his ear to the front door waiting for the right moment to make an entrance going "no, not yet, she not set me up for a pun yet" 😂
Buffy catching a beat down, Giles like "Come on, say something cool!"
Sorry to be pedantic but that's not a pun. I think it would be accurately described as a "retort."
Giles has entered the chat:
Imagine having to wait a week between episodes, we were dying
Were we? I remember “Two to Go” and “Grave” airing and being billed as a 2 hour finale. It was still an awesome reveal especially with the extended opening credits resuming after Tony Head appeared onscreen, but I don’t think the UPN network even bothered to rerun credits when “Grave” started after the top of the hour.
@@matthewwilliams2093 In England we waited
In Portugal we waited too
@@matthewwilliams2093 in Brazi we waited for a VERY long time. I took more than a year for every season to premier and the forever for all the episodes to air. :S
"I'd like to test that theory." Most bad-ass line of the WHOLE series.
Clem's the best. "Your sister is the slayer. I'm a demon. That's a good incentive to stay on her good side." Lol
That scene between Willow and Dawn gets me every time. And of course Giles' reappearance is iconic.
Giles: BEST. ENTRANCE. EVER 😍
And here is Willow, deep down the same insecure girl as shown in "Restless." If she had stopped to think, she'd realize that Tara loved her because there was more to her. And Bufffy is right - being a Slayer is not about killing or the power. It's about service and sacrifice.
It wasn't cruelty adding Amber Benson to the titles. The staff of this show worked HARD, asked for favors and begged the network to get her in the titles for at least her last episode. The creators of the show have to work under budgets but they fought hard and got Amber the recognition she deserved for her last episode. For networks it's all about money and they really don't care about the creative process the creators put in or the hard work of the actors.
Amber Benson seems to have made different comments over the years about why she wasn't a series regular, but I gather that her most frequently repeated one was that it was her choice. She wasn't much interested in doing television, but thought Buffy was a cool show, so made an exception. She was just unsure she wanted to commit to being a series regular and being tied down to it. (Though given how many episodes she ended up doing in comparison to Seth Green and Marc Blucas, she may have had second thoughts after her stint was over. In other interviews she has suggested that as well.) As to the "cruel joke" of her being in the title sequence only when she died, that's been interpreted in multiple ways also. (a) Cruel joke. (b) Tribute she had long deserved, and since no unwanted contractual obligation would now be involved, no strings would be attached to it. (c) Not just a tribute, but a financial recompense-main cast means residuals. (Don't know how that works, but I've seen it claimed.) Ultimately, killing her off seems to have been a long term plan, part of the Dark Willow arc. Some of the show runners have expressed subsequent regrets about using Tara to bring it about. But look, it was clearly made easier-almost too natural a choice, I'd say-by Amber's reluctance/ambivalence or whatever about signing a main cast contract. Not saying I LIKE the direction the show went in Seeing Red. But I think the reasons are complicated, and fits the humans as the worst villains/life is hard theme well, and I'm willing to cut the writers something of a break. I hate Hell's Bells way more. The leaving someone at the altar trope? THAT episode I see as not just manipulative but sloppy.
killing her off was definitely a long term plan considering that it was meant to be Oz and that Joss mentioned it to Seth Green as a way to sway him to stay.
No one is not shocked at Giles return, that I've ever remember seeing anyway. That's the mark of a well done cliff hanger.
It was absolute genius to put his name in the END credits, too. Everyone who watched the show got to know the actors' names so any time a name like Juliet Landau popped up on screen we immediately knew Dru would show up somewhere in the episode.
When Giles shows up is one of my favorite moments of the show.
I'm glad you managed to push through to this episode. Giles entrance will always be stunning. I think you'll really enjoy the next one. It's very good with some great things happening.
The return of Giles! Jonathan is showing a level of maturity that is unusual for him. He may be growing up. Now if only Andrew could follow suit.
Jonathan is taking responsibility and realising this is the result of their actions. Not easy to do in a life threatening situation.
Frankly, I wouldn't care if Willow had killed the Trio. I think this show overstates all that stuff about killing any humans being such an unrecoverable turning point. We've seen both Buffy and Giles kill humans and in Giles' case it wasn't even in self-defense and that's not even mentioning Faith and her redemption arc.
@@DunybrookThis journey for Willow would have broken her more and more the further she went on it. They may have never gotten her back. It's not just about killing humans, it's about who Willow is and what this journey would mean for her. When Giles killed Ben it wasn't an irredeemable direction or line crossed beyond return for him just because it was killing a human. Still very serious, but the context is different for Willow.
I feel this way beyond this season. Andrew is not a character I like.
@@Dunybrook She wouldn't stop with the Trio, though. Once she had nobody left on her list, she'd start feeling the pain again. She'd need a new vendetta to distract her. If she killed Jonathan and Andrew, she's already crossed the line of condemning those guilty by association. After that, she'd probably start looking for anyone who might have been in a position to do something about Warren in his earlier life: maybe a guidance counselor at school didn't recognize the early warning signs or his parent(s) didn't do a good enough job raising him. So she goes after them, because they helped make Warren into the guy who killed Tara. Of course, as Buffy and the others keep trying to stop her, they find their way onto her list eventually as well.
Giles' entry is so badass, i get chills every time watching this! He never should have left in the first place. And yes agreed, shout out to Alyson playing this role. I really like that you take your time to share and express your thoughts!
When Giles came back. I screamed in excitement.
The thing is, this is who willow always was, what she says about herself is the wya she always thought of herself. Tara was the only thing keeping WIllow from going this far off the deep end before this. This is the natural evolution of Willow's expiriments with magic, and magic was always the cure not the disease in willows case. The cure to her self loathing.
Perhaps that's why Faith and Willow could never stand each other, they were to similar.
The fact that the Big Bad was Willow and not the Trio was pretty smart. What turns Willow into this ? The lost of Tara, of course, but also the fact that the Scooby's are fighting Evil since six years... and are facing that simple humans can be as horrible and disgusting as demons.
Also a good approach to deal with the "weapons" subject in the US. Two times, at least, during this season, Buffy throws a gun away and says to its owner "These things? Never useful!". She also says to Riley "I'm not exactly Gun Girl"...
Another very interesting point is how Anya suddenly becomes so human and serious. She's no longer the goofy character who seems disconnected from the mortal issues. She turns back to demon... and yet, seems more human than ever. Because she kind of lost her innocence, and knows now too well what a mortal life carries with it.
I very much prefer your hesitant stance towards this story to that of those reactors who celebrate 'dark Willow'. To me it means that you feel what's done to these characters in an empathic way and take them seriously.
I feel like there’s 2 types of fans - those who don’t see it coming at all and those that have been waiting for it since the start of the season. There have been plenty of moments showing willows reliance on magic and her unstable emotional state. There have been plenty of instances showing how dangerous the trio actually are. It was always leading to some form of tragedy.
Great reaction To a great episode from Season 6.
Loved especially your face after the return of Giles.
Only 1 more episode to go in season 6. And then only 1 more season.
Amber explained in an interview, that she was told during filming of 5x22. And that it was delayed mutiple times and not meant to hurt anybody. When Seth wouldn't have left the show in S4, Oz would be in Taraa place, pushing Willow over the edge.
And at least to me, putting Amber and Tara in the intro of that episode is an act to honor both. Amber wasn't in the main credits cause she wanted to be flexible in her schedule but back then - and maybe also today - being in the main credits meant to be paid for every episode, even those where not appearing, but also to be avaiable during the whole filming period of the season.
The Giles appearance still knocks me out.
The cop saying that they would be safe there, to me, was a moment when he was retreating back into his training. Back into a comfy sense of normalcy. While also seeing the wall breaking apart, and not knowing what to do about it. So, he just comforts, and hopes not to die.
Willow making that comment of being the sidekick for years, also puts into perspective what Xander must be feeling inside as well. We've seen glimpses of it over time how he's the only one that doesn't have powers or isn't a supernatural being. In this episode, we see his frustration after Willow messed his car up in the forest and Buffy took off running cuz she has the speed due to being the Slayer. He doesn't. And you see him pound the hood of his vehicle with his fist cuz he feels useless. Heck, we saw a whole episode of him feeling useless and wanting to help and be a part of that help in "The Zeppo".
And now he has finally voiced it to Anya because now it's about his best friend Willow who's at risk of being lost to the dark side and become what they've signed up to help stop: the enemy. That scene always makes me tear up. I feel for him and I can relate. It's awful when all you wanna do is help but others think you can't or you're not capable of helping and you just get pushed off to the side. It makes you feel less than. And all you want to do is something, anything and they just say no.
And with Willow, we've seen her be ignored since the start. She has been acknowledged as the smart one or "the nerd" but never been given that role of leading. I'm sure that if she were to talk to Xander, he'd tell her that he sees her as someone just as important as the Slayer. To Xander, his besties are these strong leaders. They usually know what to do when he doesn't and he goes to them for help. And we got to see how bothered Willow was when she was referred to as being the sidekick last season when Spike was pitting them against each other as part of Adam's plan. She was already seeing herself like a leader.
And I think it could've started way back at the end of Season 2 when she was the key to bringing back Angel and returning his soul. After Buffy left for L.A., that's when she began to get into magic. I'm not sure if it was because Buffy left and they needed someone strong to help patrol at night and stop the bad demons/monsters or she got into magic because her boyfriend is a supernatural being (werewolf) and must match his supernatural strength or she actually liked doing magic and wanted to master it or all of the above.
I mean, when Buffy left for L.A., Willow did become a leader for a few months. Same thing happened again when Buffy died. She was basically leading everyone and back at it again with using magic to bring her back. She felt strong and powerful, I guess. You could say, this was a long time coming much like Daenerys going mad and needing to stopped.
Top 3 Buffy quotes the "i like to test that theory". That scene is AMAZING. Giles really had to be out for this season to happen. Its basically unsupercised kids screwing up
Best entrance line ever.
Just curious... what are the other top 3 Buffy quotes for you ..
Uncircumcised
Unsupervised!
@@godmagnus It took me a while to understand this comment LOL
YUP!! This episode happend!!! Onto the final part of the finale, woo!
Watching this in first run was so shocking, but I always loved Dark Willow and Alison’s acting of this side of her. Oh just wait for the next episode the end will be so powerful
I LOOOOVE the end of this episode! You had the same reaction as me when I first watched this!!! :D
"I'd like to test that theory."
I'm hetero, but Giles is HOOOT!🤣🤣
A great title for this episode Willow now in true 'Darkman' mode, revenge is all that is driving her, and the other two, Andrew and Jonathan seem doomed. Anya explaining in a matter of fact way to the Prison Guard what is going to happen is very funny. Her chase is relentless, and the scream she lets out outside the Prison is really chilling. The other part of the story arc is Spike's quest to complete the tasks. Prophetic words indeed when Buffy says is she is running low on magic power, she is gonna need to juice up soon, and we switch to the abominable Rack. Willow of course is now more powerful as him, and takes his strength. The Willow and Dawn conversation is interesting, with Willow's now piercing eyes looking straight onto Dawn's mind. Willow saying to Dawn you weren't always human, and why is she crying as she is just a mystical ball of energy, this is so hurtful to Dawn. Funny too when Jonathan and Andrew are arguing and Anya says ' the annoying Virgin has a point '. Great dramatic and painful conversation in The Magic Box with Xander and Anya. Willow's great scene with Buffy at Rack's where she seems to release all her pent up anger and hurt she has endured over the years of Bullying and being thought of as a nerd, and now feels she has the power to take revenge on all is a very interesting concept from the writers, it seems now as she refers to herself as a 'junkie' but feels the need to get even on everybody. The killer line here is when Willow says to Buffy, 'you hate it here even more than I do'. We switch back to Spike briefly to see he has more tasks to complete, which is interesting as this story is sidelined here as the main event is in the Magic Box, but the Spike storyline even though peripheral here, is probably the most important for the whole Series! The Buffy/Willow showdown was inevitable. It seems so bitter when Willow says to Buffy 'years of being your sideman' there seems to almost actual hate and jealousy towards her here, she is of course just too powerful now, but a brilliant ending scene Willow is thrown across the room, and we see the return of a 'juiced up' Giles, great satisfaction for the viewer here setting up a great Finale.
My 1st thought was AMY's gonna be a good guy and save the day. Was actually quite bummed about that not being a thing.
Everything goes predictably untl the surprise ending, heh... but yeah, Alyson knocked it out of the park. Pretty sure she got an award for it? Or at least her performance throughout the show.
*doublechecks* Won the Saturn Award for best supporting actress, 2002. This season ended in May '02.
That's right, Roy. Shame. DELETION OF SHAAAME. :p
The word "gagged" is thrown around a lot, but miss Dakara actually gagged.
I have watched all your supernatural convention reactions... Nd i loved them.. u should definitely try reacting to Jensen's singing nd continue reacting to convention videos
And Jonathan utters and embodies the ttheme of the season, growing up. Willow has not, as is clear,, been able to grow up rent through as she is by the same self doubts she had in season one, self doubts that have been resurrected thanks to someone also unable to grow up, Warren. And Xander, well he is stuck in arrested development. Etc., etc., etc.
Never been passed on the M1 by a semi tractor running rull throttle?
I always think Spike's test are similar to Angels trial in season 2
Leave it to Warren, a mortal who everyone thought was just a tech geek with a gun to bring out the worst of Willow.
What’s super crazy is I love Willow way more than Dawn. But if she had hurt or eliminated Dawn I don’t think I could have ever forgiven her. I’m so glad she didn’t. I really thought Anya would get it though. With her being so disconnected from the group but close enough to hurt like heck if she bit the dust.
You aren't supposed to have a chance to process... until the end of next episode. You're on an express train that goes to the season's conclusion.
What a switch. It wasn't the nerds that were the big bad, it's Willow.
oh, warren was very much the "bad". yes, he was an incompetent bad, and we're seeing the results of his recklessness rather than some master plan, but none of this happens without his malice.
@@sirmoonslosthismind Willow was bad all season she's the female Warren she erased Tara memory to get her way with her Warren did the same to Katrina now Willow like Warren is getting her murder revenge for some reason people don't see it.
@@lance9249
i'm not here to gloss over willow's crimes, only to say that warren doesn't deserve to get off just because he's incompetent.
I've seen the whole series the first time it was on and without spoiling anything this version of Willow was necessary for season 7 and what they planned for season 8 before the show got canceled
The show wasn’t cancelled. Joss ended it. Was announced as final season before it even began.
Men c'ant feint the initial response is to be full of adrenalin if there is a problem or smtgh wrong or if we see magic ^^
freek our perhaps but feint is only little girls :)
You started off that you weren’t over Tara yet. There are millions still not over it and probably never will be.
Dark Willow has been evolving in front of us since Becoming, Part 2. In the brilliant 2 parter the clues start with Whistlers voice over. Part 1 shows the points that changed the directions of Angel, Darla, Drusilla, and Buffy They were in flashbacks simply because they had already occurred. Part 2 shows the origins of Spikes obsession with Buffy and also Willow allowing and then embracing the darkness/ evil of the dark gypsy magic curse. Willow is warned not to do it but she does and she shows the first hint of Dark Willow. The slow change in Willow has been there and moving forward since then. Tara is often referred to as light and shown has a bearer of light. With the light gone, nothing can stop the darkness. The base of the evil is rooted in vengeance and that is the spark .The Willow of the first 34 episodes has been slowly replaced by Dark Willow. One of the greatest misdirections in entertainment and it takes a close rewatch to grasp and see the story. but when you are watching you can see the changes taking place.
Willow has been the big bad all season, the trio were just a red herring, a really stupid red herring.
Something I have to ask now. You said you'd rather have Tara than Dark Willow, and I agree. But would you rather have Tara than *Giles*? Because he probably wouldn't have come back without Willow going dark. lol I personally would still choose Tara, hands down, but... lol
I think we would all prefer to have Tara, however i loved this season. And Dark Willow is one of the best characters oftrhe entire series!!
This episode is truely amazing and i think all the women in this episode show strength including dawn! And all 4 of the actors Emma, Michelle, Alyson and SMG were phenomenal in this one!
How you like them apples lassie? GMan is back...,
Well... your "numbness" is kinda understandable. 20 years later I still don't know if I would have preferred to have Tara stay alive, or to have that awesome finale (I kinda consider Villains, Two to go and Grave as a 3 parts finale). This episode alone rises the epicness of the whole season from a level or two... Not that it's bad per any mean, but when you compare S6 with previous ones, it definitely lacks of good fight scenes. This one with Buffy vs Willow is up there with the Buffy vs Faith we had in S3 in term of dramatic intensity.
American trucks are not limited to 50-55mph, USA have no such safety laws like the rest of the entire world have, they can go full speed unlimited to what the engine can do
Partially true. While there is no federal law forbidding it, there are state laws and most companies have governors on their trucks that limit their top speeds.
That's just the price we have to pay as fans for watching Whdeon shows. He loves giving us hope and then killing off our beloved characters. He does it in every show.
It is what it is but as time passes you learn to accept it even if you don't agree with it.
Revenge of the Sith before Revenge of the Sith.
I'm pretty sure Amber Benson was in on the joke.
I honestly wonder why people see that as a cruel joke. When this first aired, i saw that as a tribute. It ws her last episode, and they gave her a credit as a main character...like what?
"I'd like to test that theory." I"m pretty sure I cheered at that moment when I first saw this episode. It was such a relief to see Giles come back. Up to that point, I really had no idea how on earth anyone would be able to stop her. No one was getting through to her. For him to return was perfect. I love Giles so much.
I have a lot of issues with the Willow storyline from this season, especially because the whole "magic = drugs" seems so heavy-handed. I get the premise, I get the point, but it feels like an afterschool special (albeit a much darker one, with flayings, lol). I just feel like they're hitting us over the head with that message. Even in this episode, they had to go there with the over-obvious comments like Dawn saying "you're back on the magics" or Willow calling herself a junkie. Those parts make me eyeroll.
I think it's more believable and natural of a storyline for Willow to expand her powers, enjoy the power it gives her, and want to do more, without all the need for stating it outright as some sort of drug addiction. It feels a bit insulting to the audience, especially because they've written such subtle and beautiful episodes where they didn't feel the need to hit us over the head like we're stupid. For example, "The Body" showed us the heartbreaking loss of a parent in so many scenes with very few words, just actions that we can all relate to, and the words they did use were powerful and poignant and perfect. I wish they had approached Willow going into dark magic that way.
Also, I think the loss of Tara would be enough to send Willow over the edge like this, without the need to hit us over the head repeatedly with the "you're an addict" message. Willow didn't go back to magic because she was craving a fix. She went back to magic because Tara was murdered right in front of her, she's not getting Tara back, and she's completely gutted by that and filled with rage at her love being taken away from her. That's plenty to stir her into taking these kinds of actions.
I totally agree. I think Willow turning to dark magic for reasons like craving admiration, power, revenge and control is so much more interesting than this weird drug analogy they turned it into. Even in these last 3 episodes, whenever they bring Willow's issues into it, it is so much more captivating. Willow's speech about how she was always a loser? How Tara is gone and waste like Warren gets to live? That's what made this storyline at the end great. The thrown in junkie comments are just distracting and irritating.
@@4Tom4lepus4 Yes! Exactly! Well said. Especially you mentioning that comment she made about how Tara's gone and a waste like Warren gets to live... that was dark and true and natural to what she was going through. That kind of stuff is what makes it so powerful as a storyline for Willow.
@@sherrysink3177 I really wonder why they went that route considering Willow's dark turn was foreshadowed quite a while before they ever had that weird drug analogy. Her revenge in season 4, her going after Glory, her raising Buffy...
One of my favorite moments of the season was her threatening Giles. Because he made her feel like a bullied high school kid again. I think they should have explored THAT more!
14:03
I have heard that there was an LGBTQ boycott after these originally aired.
Why tara? Because its the only thing that could make her react that way. As much as people love her, she was always a side character and a tool for narrative development for willow. I get not liking that but was the only thing that made sense to me in terms of how she reacts.
I've come around a bit on S6, but I still find the entire Dark Willow story to be so predictable. It's not even subtle. "You're back on the magicks". Sigh.
I'm more or less with you on this. The Dark Willow arc is amazing, and it injects a whole lot of new energy into characters and dynamics that might otherwise feel a bit too static, and all sorts of other ways in which it's good writing... but I think I'd still rather have Tara. In terms of episodes, The Body was more crushing, but just in terms of the effect of the character being dead, Tara's death is probably the hardest for me in the whole Buffyverse.
I love this episode, but it annoys the hell out of me that Willow is able to fight Buffy. She gives herself super strength like Buffy, but she doesn't have Buffy's skill or martial arts expertise or years of training. With Anya chanting to stop her from using magic firepower, Buffy should have beaten Willow unconcious in 30 seconds. The only logic I can cling to is that Buffy is clearly holding back, trying not to hurt Willow any worse than necessary, whereas Willow is giving it her all and getting off on standing toe to toe with Buffy.
your assumption that willow wasn't magically skillboosted is really strange given that the slayer herself is magically skillboosted. yes, buffy trains, but most of what she does against the forces of evil comes from being the chosen one, not from any training. there's surely other magic that does similar things.
@sirmoonslosthismind No, when Buffy becomes the slayer, she has no martial arts knowledge or fighting skills, just heightened strength & agility, etc. She has to train and learn all those skills. Suddenly, Willow's just doing flips and she's shape-shifted into Faith's literal stunt double, matching Buffy's moves which have taken her 8 years to master. It's just a cheat.
@@nathanielbacon2661 actually no, when slayers are chosen they get the raw abilities and skills from the previous slayers. This further honed through training. We see this multiple times when she's training with Giles in season one and she has weapon accuracy and skill beyond her training thanks to being the Slayer. Willow's unnaturally boosting herself to buffy's level. That's coupled with Buffy holding back allows willow to fight on equal footing.
@latraeosborne3287 Untrue. Slayers have enhanced reflexes and agility, which obviously makes it easier to learn physical skills. But Buffy has already been trained by a different watcher for a year before we even see her meet Giles. It's illogical to assume she didn't have to learn those skills. In the flashbacks from Becoming, we see Buffy fight her first vampire. She not only has no martial arts skills, but misses the vampires heart...because she hadnt trained yet. She wouldn't HAVE to train at all if it worked the way you're suggesting. She's not spending all that time practicing for years if she's naturally got it without trying. Lol.
@@nathanielbacon2661 actually very true. I can go weapon for weapon. Crossbows: Ask Giles to train her but we never see it. She picks it up the first time to fight Angel in season 1 she immediately knows how to use it. Swords. In her flashbacks, first movie and the show, she is never shown training with swords but proficient enough to beat Angelus, someone whose fought with swords for over two hundred years against multiple different opponents. Rocket launcher, immediate know how in aiming and firing. She actually has rudimentary use of her skills in that fight but not honed like I said. She missed the heart because it was the heat of battle and she was scared, not because she wasn't trained enough albeit that play a part as well. I said she has the basics innately down pat. Which is why she trains to hone them to a higher degree. That's how it works.
this is hands down the best arch in buffy. u got break a few eggs to make an omelette and tara is one cringe egg.
Yeah, they didn't give the audience any time to process Willow's dark turn. Everything changed in an instant. Tara died, Willow absorbed dark magic, killed Warren, tried to kill the other 2, almost killed Dawn, fought Buffy, all within 3 episodes. This all after she already went through the magic addiction and kicked the habit. Season 6 is my 2nd least favorite season after 4. There was just so many out of character things happening and events that no one wanted to see happen on the show, like Buffy and Spike hate-f'n each other, the magic is a bad drug thing, Spike attempting to rape Buffy, Willow going bad, Xander and Anya falling out, etc. Joss Whedon just hates happiness. He's a great writer but man, sometimes I wish he we would let the audience have some hope and let it stick.
Spike trying to rape buffy was not out of character. I know spike groupies like to claim that, but it's just plain wrong. Remind me how Spike was gonna try to get Dru back on season 3...
@@Square-ow7oq I'm certainly no Spike groupie. In fact, I was never a fan of his coupling with Buffy. And yeah, he was going to cast a love spell on Dru but that was Dru. They never had a stable relationship either, because she was unstable. Buffy was a different story. He always cared for her, even if she didn't return the feeling. Nothing about how he treated her before made the attempted rape make sense.
@Brandonmtlhd i didn't said you were spike groupie. I said how he was gonna tie and torture dru to get her back
people who say the cast is out of character are simply blind to the very real flaws in these characters.
@@sirmoonslosthismind Sure, the characters have flaws. But there were a lot of things happening in this season that were just way out of left field.
I never bought into the whole Willow-as-magic-addict plot. It's out of character. This season tore down all our characters and we're supposed to accept these are lessons in becoming adults. And Buffy being bested by 3 nerds while she sleeps with Spike, just not believable. There's plenty of drama but most of it is bad.
wrong, wrong & wrong
Yes, it's not you. Season 6 is just poorly executed.