Launching without preconditioning feels like an obvious mistake, but honestly I'm surprised at just how well it manages to charge despite being cold gated. 30 mins for 10% to 80% in below freezing weather is pretty impressive, especially considering the lack of preconditioning. I'm excited to see what this thing can do in the cold weather with proper battery preconditioning.
In sync with my experience in the cold but just road tripped our I5 Limited AWD to FL. Awesome advertised charging speeds in 70-75F with a warm battery and ripped off 16-86% in 17 mins on an EA 350. Many similar results also.
I really like how well you went over the charging with the charts. There are several folks doing these type of videos, but they never really get to the nitty gritty as you did in this video.
The consistency of the two charging graphs, superimposed, was impressive. So many times, I’ve watched You-Tubers rag on chargers for not passing high-kW to batteries… maybe the charging control algorithm of the car’s computer is more often the culprit, than the charging station!
Some chargers seem to do a better job than others. I’ve had some in the UK that supposedly give 120kW but gave 20kW. I then moved to another type of charger and got over 80kW.
@@SirHackaL0t. But isn’t the state of the battery changed (“conditioned”), even by a few seconds at 20kW? Upon connection to the second charger, perhaps the car’s software then determines it’s able to accept higher charging kW, and does so? It would seem that a reduced charging rate is the prerogative of the car, and not the charger.
@@carsonassociates3263 A lot seems to depend on how many amps the charger can deliver to the car. Electric Highway seemed to be only capable of 20kW. I did leave it on the charger whilst I used the loo and it still only gave 20kW. Something in the charger was limiting the supply to the car.
Still impressive in cold weather. In my "old" Kia Niro EV 2019, on 50kW charger, in warm temps, to get from 35% to 75% in about an hour. To get me to about 93% is another 30 minutes.
Hyundai Norway and Hyundai Germany have officially stated that there is an update coming that allows preconditioning based on navigation to a charging station. There isn’t a date on this.
Thanks for the video Tom. You may want to try a polarizer filter in front of the camera lens while recording the EA station screens. It will eliminate glare provided that the light is coming from the side.
Tom, awesome video 👍 I would like to see this test in the summer, our 2019 Audi eTron this winter many times 20* and less at times still complete charging from 6% to 80% in 28min .. 10-80% 26min .. the only thing we noticed when charging in the winter is the first 5-6min it does not just instantly to 150kW speed .. but yes at about the 5min mark it’s at 150kW all the way to 80% .. so I am still very impressed with this old 2019 Audi eTron ..
That's if you can find a station without a wait time. Before CCS chargers were almost always empty in my area while the Tesla superchargers were the ones w/ the long wait times. Now that a lot more people are buying EV's, I'm starting to see long lines for the EA stations, sometimes 3-4 cars waiting, now imaging that's 30 mins a vehicle that you have to wait if they're only charging up to 80%. They need to vastly improve charge stations and start adding chargers at gas stations every 4-5 exits.
Fortunately Hyundai belatedly realized the importance of battery preconditioning and it is now standard on all models of the Ioniq5. They also offered updates for all the earlier models that had the required battery warming hardware.
Cool video. Glad I line in the warmth. Yesterday at Burbank Electrify America on a 350, charging speed was 180 to 230 and went from 3% to 80% in 23 minutes.
Appreciate your efforts. Got my new Ioniq 5, SE AWD 1 week ago and am loving it. Of course Hyundai is going to report their 18 minutes in perfect conditions. Maybe would be better to have preconditioning but don't know if that would add expense and am happy my Hyundai was $20k less than a Tesla Y. What concerns me more and I'm surprised you didn't find it troublesome is why are Electrify America 150 kW and 350 kW stations charging at the same speed?
1. There will be an update for preconditioning 2. I applaud Hyundai and Kia for bringing the car out even though not everything was completely worked out. Updates will fix this. 3. 99% of the time most charge at home so it’s real not an issue. It’s way better than my E Niro even now, in the summer it won’t be much of an issue, I am sure before next winter the update will be out.
Great content! If I ever get delivery of my Mach-E (11/9/21 order date), I had planned to do this test with EA 150 and EVGo 100 kW stations. I've also wondered about network differences so I'm planning an EA 150 vs EVGo 200 vs ChargePoint 125 kW stations. I may also do an EA 350 Signet to EVG0 350 Signet. This will also result in some cost comparisons between per minute and per kWh pricing. While per kW seems the fair way to price, it looks on the surface that the current EVGo per minute pricing will actually result in less out of pocket cost.
Thanks for your great explanation for charging at dc charger. My concern is the situation with thermal runaway after a car sits in salt flood waters and owner moves car to garage and does realize thermal runaway has begun to battery bring exposed to corrosive salt water. This situation caused loss of car and home due to extreme temps. We need to talk about safety concerns from salt water rain and flood situations such as the hurricane Idalia in florida and incidents of thermal runaway. This existing problem needs to be talked about by more dealers, manufactures, and ev advocates
Hello Tom. Great video on the comparison of the 150kW and 350kW stations. The big take away is that with the current car setup there's no advantage of using the 350 station in the cold and paying more. One suggestion would be to plug in a OBD dongle during the charge. Ready Steady Charge youtube channel has a video of an Ioniq 5 charging while monitoring the battery voltage. It seems that the Ioniq 5 will allow for jumps in charge rate when the min battery temp reaches 15C then jump again at 20C and again at 25C. Those would explain the jumps on your graph. The main takeaway is that the Ioniq 5 needs to add preconditioning for fast charging. I like the idea of having the option of having a button to start it. This way if you're not using the car's navigation you won't miss on the preconditioning. Looking forward to your summer charge comparison. Hopefully they don't have preconditioning by then so you have an apple to apple comparison. Al
@@_pehash it does need to precondition if coming from highway driving. On InsideEV's podcasts Tom and Kyle have mentioned speeing up then hard regen to increase the battery temp about 10 miles before getting to a station if the vehicle has no preconditioning. If you have an OBD dongle then you can see if your battery is at optimal temperature before getting to the station.
Tom, there’s a bit of a scandal brewing over here in the UK, because for some crazy reason Hyundai UK only fitted battery heaters to certain cars if an option was selected, and that option was inlay available on the top trim level. So most UK Ioniq 5s have no battery heater, and will not even be able to benefit from an OTA update. They are physically missing the hardware. Many owners reporting really poor cold weather charging. I think it may also be the same situation in the US with RWD Ioniq 5s.
Given the conditions when you were conducting these tests, I'm not sure that Hyundai can be held to that 18 minutes from 10% to 80%, which I would only expect to see under ideal conditions. That being said, there's also a good possibility that the EA charger was only operating as a 150 kW, which could be why the charts would match so closing. At this point, the only 350 kW chargers that I would count on for reliably providing full power would be EVgo's "Ultium Ready" units.
As someone who would love to have an electric vehicle but can’t yet, it’s fun to learn about the technologies. I was particularly interested in the pre-conditioning feature that does not exist in this car… Yet. I’m thinking perhaps with the software updated could be? Likely this type of feature will become standard very soon in all electric vehicles. They just keep getting better and better. And the charge times are phenomenal! Thanks for another great video Tom.
The efficiency of the Ioniq 5 isn't good enough, and when it's cold the charging rate is wayyy too slow :( Kind of disappointed in this car tbh. Hopefully they will keep on improving
Most reviewers that condition the battery, get the 10 - 80% in 18 min. I've looked up serveral charging videos for the Ioniq 5 and almost unanimously, everyone has been able to do 10 - 80% in the advertised 18 minutes.
Do you have any links to those videos? I have seen the Alex on Autos video where he claims it did it but honestly I haven’t found many other ones that hit the 18 minute benchmark.
Nice comparison. Thank you. Is it also possible to do a City test instead of Highway to see how much miles it's possible to achieve with the regenerative breaking and lesser speed?
@Tom, I really like how you are charting and explaining these charging sessions. You give enough detail to satisfy geeks like me while delivering super-helpful and well explained info for the many new EV drivers just now getting their first BEV. Just wanted to offer words of encouragement. PS, Just received my Lucid Air GT. Supposedly a different chemistry and slightly lower capacity than the Dream Edition. I hope it charges as well as the one in your test. *EDIT* it did!!
Huh. Yesterday I charged from 7% to 80% in 20 minutes at a 350KW Electrify Canada charger. Didn't track the stats. It was 80 degrees though. Winter will be interesting.
Thanks again Tom. It's interesting that this range was very close to Stan's Bolt range with his new battery in the cold. Charging time on DCFC obviously very different between the two models. Another very useful charging review.
The inimitable Bjorn Nyland has suggested some ways to game the system, by strategically turning the HVAC on and off during DC fast charging sessions, and was able to get substantially faster charging. His strategy alternates between tying up, and freeing up, the HVAC system to focus on battery thermal management to force it to get the temperature into the sweet spot, and to keep it there. He used an OBD adaptor to monitor the temperature and identify both the minimum and maximum ends of the temperature range for maximum charging, and from there was able to design a strategy that keeps the temperature within that sweet spot. Hyundai/Kia can deploy software updates that does something similar to what he did, and I believe Bjorn suggested they confirmed to him they may do so. I believe they also suggested to him that they would implement a software update that turns on battery warming if you're navigating to a fast charger. Fully agreed that they shouldn't need UA-camrs to do this for them, though! :P This might be a factor of most of the design and testing of the E-GMP system being at South Korean temperatures, and as they gather more real world data from lots of different climates we can expect to see updates that improve things.
I have to add that if you have winter mode engaged it will turn on the battery heater while charging from a 240V EVSE or DC charger and that will eventually speed up your overall charge session, It could also potential explain your 2kW discrepancy between your 2 charge sessions.
Yesterday in NC. Mid 70s I went from 9% to 79% in 18 minutes. I had been driving nonstop on the highway for almost 5 hours. As soon as I plugged in, it was charging at 225 kWh. FWIW, I think the highway range yesterday was about 245 miles max (3.4 miles/kWh driving in Eco at about 72 to 78 mph).
Most reviews that condition the battery, get the 10 -80 in 18 min. you can look up charging videos for the Ioniq 5 and almost unanimously, everyone has been able to do 10 - 80% in the advertised 18 minutes.
How does the 100 and 200 miles added compare to competitors? That would be a useful thing to include during these videos since you've tested so many. That or even mentioning a link that has all of the results graphed out against eachother so you wouldn't need to verbally compare a bunch of competitors in every video.
Since it's summer you should redo this test. I'm in Southern California and never gets cold here so I've always gotten the advertised charge speed. But you should redo it so people are aware.
Thanks for all the info on this. My mom (also in NJ) just ordered this car (almost exact specs). She is looking forward to joining the electric car family and appreciates all the info that you and others put out there. I have been sending her a ton of videos as she waits for her car to arrive. Supposed to come in middle of the month. I was wondering if you have filmed/started to plan filming the summer updates for this car?
The difference in dispensed energy is due to different losses. On the "right" session, the car had to heat the battery even more to reach decent speeds. Losses are massive at almost 18%, while time discrepancy towards advertised is as high as 66%! Hyundai really dropped the ball there, creating a battery chemistry that is ultra sensitive and will only perform well if within a very narrow temperature window, while having huge losses in pretty much every conditions, at the same time coupling it with a relatively inefficient drive train, which in summary pretty much eats up all the advantages the fast charging will bring you. Add to that the super weird preconditioning update that still isn't rolled out globally and will only work within a very narrow set of parameters, one of which is that it won't work UNDER 20 % SOC (you can't even just turn it on, you will have to have an active navigation towards a DC fast charger that is not too close, since it won't start preconditioning then to begin with...)...you can't deny that Hyundai fooled their customers pretty good with this car. It still is a nice one though.
Also, once the car goes higher than the 125kW charge rate, the battery is 25*C or warmer. That means you can unplug it and when you plug it back in, it will jump to the 230kW+ rate. IDK why the car doesn’t ramp to this and only caps at 140-150kW, but it’s bad programming on Hyundai’s part. I have an OBD reader and have tested this in many different cold-weather charging situations.
I agree. But I try to replicate what Ioniq 5 owners will experience. I don't expect people to unplug once they see 125 kW and initiate a new charging session.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I completely understand. I just completed a Norfolk, VA to Reno, NV drive in my SEL AWD and it was nice to finally have an EV that kept up with Tesla charge/drive times (except the cold weather in the Rockies).
As long as you can do 10% to 80% in half an hour is good enough. What would be much more important would be if they have canopies over the chargers and that they are located adjacent, or close to a decent coffee shop and/or cafe.
Hyundai have now pushed an update that enables battery preconditioning. Hopefully Tom can do another charging test with an Ionic 5 with the battery preconditioning feature enabled so e can see the difference.
Only the Ionic 5 limited has the warning. 18 minutes is from 20% to 80% charging. This is my understanding. If your car is charging below 20% you won’t get the 18 minute load time.
I live in the southeast in the US, so sub-freezing charging is basically irrelevant to me. I'd really love to see these tests in summer, or in the warmer parts of the country, but the only ppl reviewing and testing these seem to be in cold areas.
Another ultra solid charging test by you Tom, the also so much! It's evident this EV is brilliant on some points but is lacking crucial charging capabilities. I do not understand how Hyundai missed that glaring issue during the development of their platform! Do you agree that a summer charging test would also be necessary to demonstrate the 10-80% in 18 minutes as promised by Hyundai?
Thank you for the detailed information. You mention an "eventual" OTA update.... Hyundai/KIA have already announced that this battery conditioning feature will be added in the near future. Your video would be perfect if you'd scanned the car and given the battery temperatures at the start of the charging session. Can't wait to see the warm weather charging tests!
Here's what happens (roughly) 2 temps monitored. "Battery high" "Battery low". The low temp would be sitting at 10-15°c. (High temp, about 25-30°c) The charge throttles until the low temp hits 20°, first ramp. It holds until 25°, second ramp. It maintains that level until the "high" temp rises to about 40°. Slight dip, recovers. When "high" hits somewhere between 45°- 50°, rapid decline in charge. Numerous testers in Europe have confirmed this. . They need a redesign of either the cooling circuit, or the software controlling it. . Don't be surprised if you see an update "We've improved the ramp! (But you won't get the 240kW maximum any more) (Just my prediction)
Hi Tom the Battery warmer as it is currently is set, only keeps the battery warm when plugged in, so if you are home charging at night it will also do slight condition warming while plugged in.
The results as stated in this video assumes the charging stations are actually capable of what they are advertising and the charging station used for the test IS actually operating as advertised. I’m wondering who tests the capability of the charging stations.
Not in February with 25 F temperatures, I can tell you that! But yeah, in the right temps, it will achieve the manufacturer's advertised charging time. But customers need to understand that the conditions have to be right for that to happen. Many new to EVs don't know that yet, which is why we make these videos.
Isn’t the 30 minutes as good as any other vehicle even at 2 times the price does 10%-80%. I get not the 18 minutes isn’t really achieved, and with how batteries heat up during charging probably not going to get it. Still with or without heating system working 30 minutes is pretty competitive with those overpriced vehicles.
it's still very good, but not quite as good as "any other" vehicle. There are other EVs that deliver more driving range in 30 minutes, and that's more important than what state of charge it reaches.
Great video. I’d like to see the same test in Minnesota winter conditions, especially when temperatures are below zero F. Of course, for in town driving the time for charging isn’t that critical if one has a home charger. My concern is for those who drive 20 or 30 miles to work and then their car sits in the parking lot for 8 to 9 hours and the high temp for the day is -10 F (that’s the real world). Would be interesting to understand how those conditions impact battery temp. It will take time for business to install charging points and it would be very expensive to have a plug-in point for every employee.
Many EVs have a preconditioning feature that allows you to heat up the battery on the way to the fast charging station. That won't solve the slower winter charging entirely, but it will dramatically improve it.
It's a good thing to know the 18 minute figure is the best case number. But it's not misleading, that's what it's capable of doing in the right conditions.
That's what it's capable of in *ABSOLUTELY* "right" conditions. But If it's TOO hot, the car will throttle both the top end charge *and* the drive power when you leave the charger (like accelerating up to speed on a highway? Just make sure there's not a Semi behind you!)
My Model 3 always gets the “best case” because it preconditions before reaching the DC charger. Don’t give Hyundai excuses, they could do the same if they had on-route preconditioning like Tesla does.
Haven't heard it was a problem. Gas pumps can be made to put less in the tank than the counter on the pump indicates, and your gas gauge is not very precise, so they have to check those. But a DC Fast charger will have a screen showing charge data more precisely, and your car should reflect that also, so anyone charging would know instantly if they were ripped off.
Tom - good stuff! If possible, would like for you to do a similar test at 40-45 degrees, trying to answer the question: where does the fast (over 200 kw) charging speed really show up? If your next test is at a summer 70 to 80 degrees, you’ll run into the high speed charge throttling that this car does as a warm battery heats up.
So I live in the area East Brunswick and used both Bridgewater too.. Ive noticed Electrify America units truly underperforming and youll notice this with other cars. Ive spoken with Porsche owners and Kia and Hyundai all say same thing about these locations. They have been having significant problems and I wanted you to know they have service tickets open on them
I have charged there more than 30-40 times with probably 20 different EVs. There have been occasional issues, but overall, it's one of the most reliable EA stations in the area. Quite often when people report issues about slower charging, they don't understand the battery needs to be very warm to accept the full charging rate. I was there last week and a Taycan owner was complaining about this so I showed him how to see his battery temperature (he didn't know how) and his battery was at 60 degrees. The Taycan's battery needs to be at about 92 degrees for it to accept the full charging rate.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney thank you. I’d love to see how I can see my battery temp on the Ioniq 5? Also great job I bought the ChargePoint because of you last week. Best decision ever and also glad we are neighbors. Lol
It would be interesting to see the pack temps on the overlays. I'm guessing the overlay at the 19 minute mark, even though charging started at either 0 or 10%, the pack temp was actually the same or very close. Then the natural heating effect of charging looks like it was contributory to it accepting a higher rate of charge at the same time... clearly, temps matter. Other who have done warm weather charging have been able to achieve 18 minutes with ease. Being in Canada, it's crucial for battery preconditioning on a road trip. Hopefully this is going to be updated.
In Europe, we do not have battery pre-conditioning available yet. It will come this year with software update. Did you have winter mode enabled? You should repeat this test in spring.
Just like YMMV, Hyundai states that you can under certain circumstance charge from 10% to 80%... So we need a new acronym? YCTMV? Your charging time may vary?
I had about 250kW peek the one time I fast charged mine. 30% - 80% in about 14 minutes. I had driven it around town and it was probably 50ish degrees out.
Tom, I didn’t see a summer time follow up. I have a fresh 2023 IONIQ 5 Limited AWD (different on color only). Let me know if I can help out with those tests. 25:22
Great video. One question I have and I'm sorry for asking this, if it's already been answered, but I can't find an answer. I've always heard Tesla supercharging or DC fast charging is bad for batteries, so one should not do it a lot. One review I saw said you can supercharge everyday without issues. It's confusing, if you have a video talking about this issue could you please let me know? Thank you.
Really cold, 0 degrees Celsius, he says. LOL. We up here in Canada deal with -25 very often and down through to -45 at times. How do these cars respond and charge at those temps and how does that effect the range. Running out of power isn't just inconvenient, its life threatening.
I assume the first two ramps are temperature related and the declines are maybe built in ramp downs at defined states of charge. You should use the OBD scanner.
Great test thanks. When you do your next test is it possible to find a 500 amp station I know Kyle has one near him I'd be interested to see how that changes the curve if at all.
The two 350 kW tests I did were on 500-amp units. It's not known for sure if EA has limited tome to 350-amps, but that wouldn't matter - this is an 800-volt battery system with a peak charging ability of about 235 kW, so even 350-amps is more than enough.
I understand that the Hyundai ionic five limited has a heat pump. If there was a software update to precondition the battery would it involve using the heat pump or would it be accomplished in a different way. If so how?
Launching without preconditioning feels like an obvious mistake, but honestly I'm surprised at just how well it manages to charge despite being cold gated. 30 mins for 10% to 80% in below freezing weather is pretty impressive, especially considering the lack of preconditioning. I'm excited to see what this thing can do in the cold weather with proper battery preconditioning.
In sync with my experience in the cold but just road tripped our I5 Limited AWD to FL. Awesome advertised charging speeds in 70-75F with a warm battery and ripped off 16-86% in 17 mins on an EA 350. Many similar results also.
I really like how well you went over the charging with the charts. There are several folks doing these type of videos, but they never really get to the nitty gritty as you did in this video.
Love the graphs! I really appreciate that you show the time for 100/200 miles added
Glad Lucid gives the option to precondition the battery. All manufacturers should offer that option.
The consistency of the two charging graphs, superimposed, was impressive. So many times, I’ve watched You-Tubers rag on chargers for not passing high-kW to batteries… maybe the charging control algorithm of the car’s computer is more often the culprit, than the charging station!
Yeah, quite often the people complaining don't really understand how charging works.
Some chargers seem to do a better job than others. I’ve had some in the UK that supposedly give 120kW but gave 20kW. I then moved to another type of charger and got over 80kW.
@@SirHackaL0t. But isn’t the state of the battery changed (“conditioned”), even by a few seconds at 20kW? Upon connection to the second charger, perhaps the car’s software then determines it’s able to accept higher charging kW, and does so? It would seem that a reduced charging rate is the prerogative of the car, and not the charger.
@@carsonassociates3263 A lot seems to depend on how many amps the charger can deliver to the car. Electric Highway seemed to be only capable of 20kW. I did leave it on the charger whilst I used the loo and it still only gave 20kW. Something in the charger was limiting the supply to the car.
Hey Tom, you may want to attach a circular polarizing filter on your camera to reduce the glare when recording screens.
Still impressive in cold weather. In my "old" Kia Niro EV 2019, on 50kW charger, in warm temps, to get from 35% to 75% in about an hour. To get me to about 93% is another 30 minutes.
Hyundai Norway and Hyundai Germany have officially stated that there is an update coming that allows preconditioning based on navigation to a charging station. There isn’t a date on this.
where are these official statements?
@@bigpasto on Hyundai Norway and Hyundai Germany Twitter accounts. Also in the Ioniq forums.
Wish they would have (also?) a "manual pre-condition battery" button.
@@be236 new nissan ariya will have this button, I hope others will copy the idea.
@@be236 I think in a Kia EV6 GT press drive they mentioned just that.
Thanks for the video Tom. You may want to try a polarizer filter in front of the camera lens while recording the EA station screens. It will eliminate glare provided that the light is coming from the side.
Yeah, I'm going to look into it
28 minutes here in Belgium with 350 kW Ionity chargers and winter conditions, with peak power at 180 kW.
preconditioning is a must have ,I've done both tests on my tesla 3 performance, it really sucks without preconditioning!
Tom, awesome video 👍 I would like to see this test in the summer, our 2019 Audi eTron this winter many times 20* and less at times still complete charging from 6% to 80% in 28min .. 10-80% 26min .. the only thing we noticed when charging in the winter is the first 5-6min it does not just instantly to 150kW speed .. but yes at about the 5min mark it’s at 150kW all the way to 80% .. so I am still very impressed with this old 2019 Audi eTron ..
That's if you can find a station without a wait time. Before CCS chargers were almost always empty in my area while the Tesla superchargers were the ones w/ the long wait times. Now that a lot more people are buying EV's, I'm starting to see long lines for the EA stations, sometimes 3-4 cars waiting, now imaging that's 30 mins a vehicle that you have to wait if they're only charging up to 80%. They need to vastly improve charge stations and start adding chargers at gas stations every 4-5 exits.
Fortunately Hyundai belatedly realized the importance of battery preconditioning and it is now standard on all models of the Ioniq5. They also offered updates for all the earlier models that had the required battery warming hardware.
Cool video. Glad I line in the warmth. Yesterday at Burbank Electrify America on a 350, charging speed was 180 to 230 and went from 3% to 80% in 23 minutes.
Appreciate your efforts. Got my new Ioniq 5, SE AWD 1 week ago and am loving it. Of course Hyundai is going to report their 18 minutes in perfect conditions. Maybe would be better to have preconditioning but don't know if that would add expense and am happy my Hyundai was $20k less than a Tesla Y. What concerns me more and I'm surprised you didn't find it troublesome is why are Electrify America 150 kW and 350 kW stations charging at the same speed?
Love your graphs. This was a very interesting comparison.
1. There will be an update for preconditioning
2. I applaud Hyundai and Kia for bringing the car out even though not everything was completely worked out. Updates will fix this.
3. 99% of the time most charge at home so it’s real not an issue.
It’s way better than my E Niro even now, in the summer it won’t be much of an issue, I am sure before next winter the update will be out.
Great content! If I ever get delivery of my Mach-E (11/9/21 order date), I had planned to do this test with EA 150 and EVGo 100 kW stations. I've also wondered about network differences so I'm planning an EA 150 vs EVGo 200 vs ChargePoint 125 kW stations. I may also do an EA 350 Signet to EVG0 350 Signet. This will also result in some cost comparisons between per minute and per kWh pricing. While per kW seems the fair way to price, it looks on the surface that the current EVGo per minute pricing will actually result in less out of pocket cost.
Thanks for your great explanation for charging at dc charger. My concern is the situation with thermal runaway after a car sits in salt flood waters and owner moves car to garage and does realize thermal runaway has begun to battery bring exposed to corrosive salt water. This situation caused loss of car and home due to extreme temps. We need to talk about safety concerns from salt water rain and flood situations such as the hurricane Idalia in florida and incidents of thermal runaway. This existing problem needs to be talked about by more dealers, manufactures, and ev advocates
Hello Tom.
Great video on the comparison of the 150kW and 350kW stations. The big take away is that with the current car setup there's no advantage of using the 350 station in the cold and paying more.
One suggestion would be to plug in a OBD dongle during the charge. Ready Steady Charge youtube channel has a video of an Ioniq 5 charging while monitoring the battery voltage. It seems that the Ioniq 5 will allow for jumps in charge rate when the min battery temp reaches 15C then jump again at 20C and again at 25C. Those would explain the jumps on your graph.
The main takeaway is that the Ioniq 5 needs to add preconditioning for fast charging. I like the idea of having the option of having a button to start it. This way if you're not using the car's navigation you won't miss on the preconditioning.
Looking forward to your summer charge comparison. Hopefully they don't have preconditioning by then so you have an apple to apple comparison.
Al
I doubt they will add it by then, but even if they do, it probably won' need preconditioning if it's 85 degrees or warmer outside.
Does it really need preconditioning if you've just spend 2-3h driving, to get to less than 10%? I'd expect the battery to be warm already.
@@_pehash it does need to precondition if coming from highway driving. On InsideEV's podcasts Tom and Kyle have mentioned speeing up then hard regen to increase the battery temp about 10 miles before getting to a station if the vehicle has no preconditioning.
If you have an OBD dongle then you can see if your battery is at optimal temperature before getting to the station.
@@_pehash It sucks the battery heat out for cabin heating, so it does not matter how long you drive, unfortunately.
Looking forward for the summer test as well!
It works for me..not all the time but around 18 to 22 minutes for sure in my case
Tom, there’s a bit of a scandal brewing over here in the UK, because for some crazy reason Hyundai UK only fitted battery heaters to certain cars if an option was selected, and that option was inlay available on the top trim level. So most UK Ioniq 5s have no battery heater, and will not even be able to benefit from an OTA update. They are physically missing the hardware. Many owners reporting really poor cold weather charging.
I think it may also be the same situation in the US with RWD Ioniq 5s.
Maybe uk has only 50 kW chargers where it does not really matter, since every uk reviewer mentions HPC in connection with "if you can find one". ;-)
Awesome vid as always Tom
It has never taken 18 minutes. Usually it is about 8-10, I love this car!
Given the conditions when you were conducting these tests, I'm not sure that Hyundai can be held to that 18 minutes from 10% to 80%, which I would only expect to see under ideal conditions.
That being said, there's also a good possibility that the EA charger was only operating as a 150 kW, which could be why the charts would match so closing. At this point, the only 350 kW chargers that I would count on for reliably providing full power would be EVgo's "Ultium Ready" units.
As someone who would love to have an electric vehicle but can’t yet, it’s fun to learn about the technologies. I was particularly interested in the pre-conditioning feature that does not exist in this car… Yet. I’m thinking perhaps with the software updated could be? Likely this type of feature will become standard very soon in all electric vehicles. They just keep getting better and better. And the charge times are phenomenal! Thanks for another great video Tom.
The efficiency of the Ioniq 5 isn't good enough, and when it's cold the charging rate is wayyy too slow :( Kind of disappointed in this car tbh. Hopefully they will keep on improving
Most reviewers that condition the battery, get the 10 - 80% in 18 min. I've looked up serveral charging videos for the Ioniq 5 and almost unanimously, everyone has been able to do 10 - 80% in the advertised 18 minutes.
Do you have any links to those videos? I have seen the Alex on Autos video where he claims it did it but honestly I haven’t found many other ones that hit the 18 minute benchmark.
Nice comparison. Thank you. Is it also possible to do a City test instead of Highway to see how much miles it's possible to achieve with the regenerative breaking and lesser speed?
Thanks for all u do!
@Tom, I really like how you are charting and explaining these charging sessions. You give enough detail to satisfy geeks like me while delivering super-helpful and well explained info for the many new EV drivers just now getting their first BEV. Just wanted to offer words of encouragement.
PS, Just received my Lucid Air GT. Supposedly a different chemistry and slightly lower capacity than the Dream Edition. I hope it charges as well as the one in your test. *EDIT* it did!!
Huh. Yesterday I charged from 7% to 80% in 20 minutes at a 350KW Electrify Canada charger. Didn't track the stats. It was 80 degrees though. Winter will be interesting.
Were you actually sure that the 350 kW charger can and does ACTUALLY deliver 350 kW? What you tell makes me think both were 150 kW chargers.
It is going to be 96 degrees here in NC today. Are you planning on doing the warm weather tests before it gets crazy hot up there this summer?
30 minutes is far better than my 2020 Kia Soul EV limited (64kwh), normally when around 30 deg. F. About 55 minutes 10-80%
Yup. Similar charging time in my Kia Niro EV 2019.
Thanks again Tom. It's interesting that this range was very close to Stan's Bolt range with his new battery in the cold. Charging time on DCFC obviously very different between the two models. Another very useful charging review.
Yes. EPA range is also very similar
Great video, keep up the good work 👍
The inimitable Bjorn Nyland has suggested some ways to game the system, by strategically turning the HVAC on and off during DC fast charging sessions, and was able to get substantially faster charging. His strategy alternates between tying up, and freeing up, the HVAC system to focus on battery thermal management to force it to get the temperature into the sweet spot, and to keep it there. He used an OBD adaptor to monitor the temperature and identify both the minimum and maximum ends of the temperature range for maximum charging, and from there was able to design a strategy that keeps the temperature within that sweet spot.
Hyundai/Kia can deploy software updates that does something similar to what he did, and I believe Bjorn suggested they confirmed to him they may do so. I believe they also suggested to him that they would implement a software update that turns on battery warming if you're navigating to a fast charger.
Fully agreed that they shouldn't need UA-camrs to do this for them, though! :P This might be a factor of most of the design and testing of the E-GMP system being at South Korean temperatures, and as they gather more real world data from lots of different climates we can expect to see updates that improve things.
I have to add that if you have winter mode engaged it will turn on the battery heater while charging from a 240V EVSE or DC charger and that will eventually speed up your overall charge session, It could also potential explain your 2kW discrepancy between your 2 charge sessions.
in 2023 an update was issued to resolve this. The Ioniq 5 now supports pre-conditioning.
Yesterday in NC. Mid 70s I went from 9% to 79% in 18 minutes. I had been driving nonstop on the highway for almost 5 hours. As soon as I plugged in, it was charging at 225 kWh. FWIW, I think the highway range yesterday was about 245 miles max (3.4 miles/kWh driving in Eco at about 72 to 78 mph).
Most reviews that condition the battery, get the 10 -80 in 18 min. you can look up charging videos for the Ioniq 5 and almost unanimously, everyone has been able to do 10 - 80% in the advertised 18 minutes.
How does the 100 and 200 miles added compare to competitors? That would be a useful thing to include during these videos since you've tested so many. That or even mentioning a link that has all of the results graphed out against eachother so you wouldn't need to verbally compare a bunch of competitors in every video.
Thanks, Larry. I am working on putting them together on charts that will be accessible any time.
Since it's summer you should redo this test. I'm in Southern California and never gets cold here so I've always gotten the advertised charge speed. But you should redo it so people are aware.
Thanks for all the info on this. My mom (also in NJ) just ordered this car (almost exact specs). She is looking forward to joining the electric car family and appreciates all the info that you and others put out there. I have been sending her a ton of videos as she waits for her car to arrive. Supposed to come in middle of the month. I was wondering if you have filmed/started to plan filming the summer updates for this car?
The difference in dispensed energy is due to different losses. On the "right" session, the car had to heat the battery even more to reach decent speeds. Losses are massive at almost 18%, while time discrepancy towards advertised is as high as 66%! Hyundai really dropped the ball there, creating a battery chemistry that is ultra sensitive and will only perform well if within a very narrow temperature window, while having huge losses in pretty much every conditions, at the same time coupling it with a relatively inefficient drive train, which in summary pretty much eats up all the advantages the fast charging will bring you. Add to that the super weird preconditioning update that still isn't rolled out globally and will only work within a very narrow set of parameters, one of which is that it won't work UNDER 20 % SOC (you can't even just turn it on, you will have to have an active navigation towards a DC fast charger that is not too close, since it won't start preconditioning then to begin with...)...you can't deny that Hyundai fooled their customers pretty good with this car. It still is a nice one though.
I really wish you had added "Cold Weather" to your video description.
Also, once the car goes higher than the 125kW charge rate, the battery is 25*C or warmer. That means you can unplug it and when you plug it back in, it will jump to the 230kW+ rate. IDK why the car doesn’t ramp to this and only caps at 140-150kW, but it’s bad programming on Hyundai’s part. I have an OBD reader and have tested this in many different cold-weather charging situations.
I agree. But I try to replicate what Ioniq 5 owners will experience. I don't expect people to unplug once they see 125 kW and initiate a new charging session.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I completely understand. I just completed a Norfolk, VA to Reno, NV drive in my SEL AWD and it was nice to finally have an EV that kept up with Tesla charge/drive times (except the cold weather in the Rockies).
Can't wait until you run some tests at optimal temperatures. Perhaps a road trip to warmer weather is in order.
Why is the Standard Range RWD less efficient than the Long Range RWD? Is it a heat pump thing, a worse motor, or something I'm not understanding?
That's a good question.
As long as you can do 10% to 80% in half an hour is good enough.
What would be much more important would be if they have canopies over the chargers and that they are located adjacent, or close to a decent coffee shop and/or cafe.
good enough, until you are told you paid for it to be 40% faster.....
"good enough" is a relative term. Waiting for 30min would dissuade a large percentage of people from owning one.
The curve looks to be what I saw where it seems charging to 85% is pretty efficient charging time wise compared to the traditional 80% recommendation.
Some early charging sessions had it drop to 2 kW for 2 min after 80 %, I wonder if they still do that.
Hyundai have now pushed an update that enables battery preconditioning. Hopefully Tom can do another charging test with an Ionic 5 with the battery preconditioning feature enabled so e can see the difference.
Only the Ionic 5 limited has the warning. 18 minutes is from 20% to 80% charging. This is my understanding. If your car is charging below 20% you won’t get the 18 minute load time.
This is so helpful.
Great video! Thanks! A lot
I live in the southeast in the US, so sub-freezing charging is basically irrelevant to me. I'd really love to see these tests in summer, or in the warmer parts of the country, but the only ppl reviewing and testing these seem to be in cold areas.
Another ultra solid charging test by you Tom, the also so much! It's evident this EV is brilliant on some points but is lacking crucial charging capabilities. I do not understand how Hyundai missed that glaring issue during the development of their platform! Do you agree that a summer charging test would also be necessary to demonstrate the 10-80% in 18 minutes as promised by Hyundai?
Yes, I'll repeat the test in the summer and I'm betting it will charge 10 to 80 in under 20 minutes
Thank you for the detailed information. You mention an "eventual" OTA update.... Hyundai/KIA have already announced that this battery conditioning feature will be added in the near future. Your video would be perfect if you'd scanned the car and given the battery temperatures at the start of the charging session. Can't wait to see the warm weather charging tests!
Here's what happens (roughly)
2 temps monitored.
"Battery high"
"Battery low".
The low temp would be sitting at 10-15°c.
(High temp, about 25-30°c)
The charge throttles until the low temp hits 20°, first ramp.
It holds until 25°, second ramp.
It maintains that level until the "high" temp rises to about 40°.
Slight dip, recovers.
When "high" hits somewhere between 45°- 50°, rapid decline in charge.
Numerous testers in Europe have confirmed this.
.
They need a redesign of either the cooling circuit, or the software controlling it.
.
Don't be surprised if you see an update
"We've improved the ramp! (But you won't get the 240kW maximum any more)
(Just my prediction)
Great video! So one is best off driving it as close to 0 as possible (and never charging over 83%) to maximize peak charging time.
Yes, that's true with just about every EV
Hi Tom the Battery warmer as it is currently is set, only keeps the battery warm when plugged in, so if you are home charging at night it will also do slight condition warming while plugged in.
Ok, didn't know that. Then why does the display show the energy used for "battery care"?
Well of course cold weather is going to slow it down. Marketing stats are for best case scenarios, you know that!
Of course. But the average person that's new to EVs doesn't. That's the point of the video, to explain what to expect in colder weather and why. :)
Polestar 2 has pre conditioning before fastcharging as well.
A short recharge time in weather that cold is very impressive! Where can I buy one?
weird curve, weird thermal mgmt decision, and good to see 400V still produces useful long range charging infrastructure.
Is the standard range Ioniq 5 actually being sold in the US? I couldn’t see a way to configure it on their website.
The results as stated in this video assumes the charging stations are actually capable of what they are advertising and the charging station used for the test IS actually operating as advertised. I’m wondering who tests the capability of the charging stations.
I was just at a BJ's GAS the other day to fill up my wife's car, to save 20 cents we got in line... It took 25 minutes to get a full tank of gas.
manufacturers range tests should be done in cold weather
Our Ioniq 5 charged from 30% to 88% in 19 minutes In 80 degrees and peaked at 225 kW at a 350 kW EA charger
Not in February with 25 F temperatures, I can tell you that! But yeah, in the right temps, it will achieve the manufacturer's advertised charging time. But customers need to understand that the conditions have to be right for that to happen. Many new to EVs don't know that yet, which is why we make these videos.
Since both 150KW and 350KW chargers were the same there is some chance that the 150KW charger could also improve a little in the summer.
It's possible, but I wouldn't expect it to be drastically shorter, time wise
Isn’t the 30 minutes as good as any other vehicle even at 2 times the price does 10%-80%. I get not the 18 minutes isn’t really achieved, and with how batteries heat up during charging probably not going to get it. Still with or without heating system working 30 minutes is pretty competitive with those overpriced vehicles.
it's still very good, but not quite as good as "any other" vehicle. There are other EVs that deliver more driving range in 30 minutes, and that's more important than what state of charge it reaches.
Great video. I’d like to see the same test in Minnesota winter conditions, especially when temperatures are below zero F. Of course, for in town driving the time for charging isn’t that critical if one has a home charger. My concern is for those who drive 20 or 30 miles to work and then their car sits in the parking lot for 8 to 9 hours and the high temp for the day is -10 F (that’s the real world). Would be interesting to understand how those conditions impact battery temp. It will take time for business to install charging points and it would be very expensive to have a plug-in point for every employee.
Many EVs have a preconditioning feature that allows you to heat up the battery on the way to the fast charging station. That won't solve the slower winter charging entirely, but it will dramatically improve it.
It's a good thing to know the 18 minute figure is the best case number. But it's not misleading, that's what it's capable of doing in the right conditions.
That's what it's capable of in *ABSOLUTELY* "right" conditions.
But
If it's TOO hot, the car will throttle both the top end charge *and* the drive power when you leave the charger (like accelerating up to speed on a highway? Just make sure there's not a Semi behind you!)
My Model 3 always gets the “best case” because it preconditions before reaching the DC charger.
Don’t give Hyundai excuses, they could do the same if they had on-route preconditioning like Tesla does.
@@Lynyrd_Evnyrd agreed it's not as good because it's air cooled. Tesla's are some of the best
Gas pumps are audited by the state (in Kentucky). Is anyone auditing electric chargers?
Haven't heard it was a problem. Gas pumps can be made to put less in the tank than the counter on the pump indicates, and your gas gauge is not very precise, so they have to check those. But a DC Fast charger will have a screen showing charge data more precisely, and your car should reflect that also, so anyone charging would know instantly if they were ripped off.
Hye Tom. I would really like to see a chargetest of the Nio ET7. Thanks for lots of good videos 👍😀
As soon as it's possible
this is a helpful video
Tom - good stuff! If possible, would like for you to do a similar test at 40-45 degrees, trying to answer the question: where does the fast (over 200 kw) charging speed really show up? If your next test is at a summer 70 to 80 degrees, you’ll run into the high speed charge throttling that this car does as a warm battery heats up.
It's not always easy to get the vehicles. I'll do the recordings when I can get the cars.
Are you planning on any content on the Ioniq 6 or is that too similar?
So I live in the area East Brunswick and used both Bridgewater too.. Ive noticed Electrify America units truly underperforming and youll notice this with other cars. Ive spoken with Porsche owners and Kia and Hyundai all say same thing about these locations. They have been having significant problems and I wanted you to know they have service tickets open on them
I have charged there more than 30-40 times with probably 20 different EVs. There have been occasional issues, but overall, it's one of the most reliable EA stations in the area. Quite often when people report issues about slower charging, they don't understand the battery needs to be very warm to accept the full charging rate.
I was there last week and a Taycan owner was complaining about this so I showed him how to see his battery temperature (he didn't know how) and his battery was at 60 degrees. The Taycan's battery needs to be at about 92 degrees for it to accept the full charging rate.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney thank you. I’d love to see how I can see my battery temp on the Ioniq 5? Also great job I bought the ChargePoint because of you last week. Best decision ever and also glad we are neighbors. Lol
It would be interesting to see the pack temps on the overlays. I'm guessing the overlay at the 19 minute mark, even though charging started at either 0 or 10%, the pack temp was actually the same or very close. Then the natural heating effect of charging looks like it was contributory to it accepting a higher rate of charge at the same time... clearly, temps matter.
Other who have done warm weather charging have been able to achieve 18 minutes with ease.
Being in Canada, it's crucial for battery preconditioning on a road trip. Hopefully this is going to be updated.
In Europe, we do not have battery pre-conditioning available yet. It will come this year with software update. Did you have winter mode enabled? You should repeat this test in spring.
Tesla Bjorn has more data about cold charging on his channel. He looks at the battery temp as well.
Just like YMMV, Hyundai states that you can under certain circumstance charge from 10% to 80%... So we need a new acronym? YCTMV? Your charging time may vary?
I had about 250kW peek the one time I fast charged mine. 30% - 80% in about 14 minutes. I had driven it around town and it was probably 50ish degrees out.
I haven't seen more than 235 kW on an Ioniq 5, even in warm temps
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney wow you got 235 KW how many EV vehicle can claim that?
since teh AWD versions have heat pumps they can precondition the battery (when the update comes) but i dont think the rwd has one.
It would be amazing to overlay the battery pack temp over the charging rate graph.
Tom, I didn’t see a summer time follow up. I have a fresh 2023 IONIQ 5 Limited AWD (different on color only). Let me know if I can help out with those tests. 25:22
Great video. One question I have and I'm sorry for asking this, if it's already been answered, but I can't find an answer. I've always heard Tesla supercharging or DC fast charging is bad for batteries, so one should not do it a lot. One review I saw said you can supercharge everyday without issues. It's confusing, if you have a video talking about this issue could you please let me know? Thank you.
Seems the 350Kw station was malfunctioning? Strange…
Really cold, 0 degrees Celsius, he says. LOL. We up here in Canada deal with -25 very often and down through to -45 at times. How do these cars respond and charge at those temps and how does that effect the range. Running out of power isn't just inconvenient, its life threatening.
I assume the first two ramps are temperature related and the declines are maybe built in ramp downs at defined states of charge. You should use the OBD scanner.
Hyundai doesn't promise anything, it's what is measured in ideal conditions.
When are you going to start using an OBD adapter to monitor battery temps?
Yes, Car Scanner ELM OBD2 app works great for my Ioniq 5.
When might we see the charging test in warmer, ideal temperatures?
Great test thanks. When you do your next test is it possible to find a 500 amp station I know Kyle has one near him I'd be interested to see how that changes the curve if at all.
The two 350 kW tests I did were on 500-amp units. It's not known for sure if EA has limited tome to 350-amps, but that wouldn't matter - this is an 800-volt battery system with a peak charging ability of about 235 kW, so even 350-amps is more than enough.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney great info thanks for replying.
Your cost difference see seems to due more to i^2r losses. You should be able to see that from your curves.
I understand that the Hyundai ionic five limited has a heat pump. If there was a software update to precondition the battery would it involve using the heat pump or would it be accomplished in a different way. If so how?