It's insane how far computers have come. I am excited to see how powerful they can make sub 20watt computers in the next years since I use solar panels
@@bulletpunch9317 That's really nice until you get cloudy weather for multiple weeks straight, then even 20W starts to become too much when also accounting for a screen...
@@dzamija7827 For me I live in Sub-Saharan Africa. We have no winters. Just scorching hot seasons punctuated by really cold, cloudy/rainy seasons. Solar panels are a dream out here. Funny I don't have them though, I live in a rented apartment. I can, however, imagine how cool it would be having my own home and using free power from pv solar and some batteries for the evenings. Could definitely work!
@@dzamija7827 Even though I hate solar panel idea, which is on its development stage, coz it can delever less than 20% efficiency. on an average 15% , if there is dust accumulated it become below that. But many dumbb arsses like u think the world revolves around US. and its winter every where.
I can also wait for 8000/rdna4... Or maybe I'll wait for 9000/rdna5. Or maybe even...wait for it... 10k/rdna6!!!!! Amazing right???? Says no one in the tech industry... Ever.
@@KingVulpes you are quite wrong. Nvidia ARM APUs are used in automobiles, businesses, AI, small form computers etc... They don't make x86 APUs because they don't have an x86 license. The switch? That's an Nvidia apu. Jetson Orin devices? Nvidia.
Very impressive! I've been saying this since the days of the FM2+ A10-7850k, one day, APU's will be the way to go. If I had to build a new PC, I would probably end up doing something like this just to save space. Full desktops are nice, but huge.
Well, you still can get them in small form factor. There are some awesome cases like Fractal Design Ridge, it can fit AND cool latest cpus and GPUs, maybe at the expense of noise and temps, but whatever. Still thousands of miles ahead of any Apu on the market
@@vinylSummer A gaming rig build is better you say? No fucking shit Sherlock! I'm just saying, its nice that APU's have come so far. Not everyone lives in a country where an RTX 4090 and 2 dozen core CPU's are viable to buy or even power due to infrastructural issues. I'm sure the people in Europe struggling to heat their homes would love to game on an APU based system that sips a few watts....
@@johndoe7270 my point was that gaming rigs don't need to be huge, not that they're better than Apu builds (ofc they are).I just mentioned that even though in some scenarios a sff build MIGHT throttle, it will still be much more powerful than apus in a similar form factor. Also, points you made in your second comment are far from truth. Now that GPU market isn't insane anymore, you can get a very decent rig for around 500$ or even less. For the GPU it'll include a new rx6600 that easily plays latest AAA titles at 1080p high and sips power, for the CPU maybe smth like Ryzen 5500 that uses fckin 30w at full load. Those components are cheap everywhere and if you care about power consumption a lot, you can tune them to use smth around 120W COMBINED. Let's say other components will use 50W. That's almost three times the power consumption of a powerful Apu build, but you get 10x the performance or more. If you actually do the math on what's the difference in money between a 65W rig and a 170w rig even in countries where power is the most expensive.. it's still negligible. It's nice that we have apus, they are nice for some use cases. But for gamers.. Not the way to go.
This got me pretty hyped for if they release desktop apu's for am5 if you look up igpu gaming on 7000 chips the 2 cu that come standard with them pack a punch, imagine 8 or 11 like they did with the 2400g it'd be crazy
I've got an RX 680M on my Ryzen 9 6900HS in my laptop, and it's about the same performance as he shows here, using DDR5-4800. I'd love to see an RDNA3 iGPU with 12 CUs
This is dope. I love seeing how capable these small machines are becoming. I wish I had a need for a lot of graphical power on a PC (I do my AAA gaming on a PS5 and in the future a PS5 Pro while my design + dev work is more impacted by RAM than anything).
Excellent video as always! I’ve read that the RDNA 3, Zen 4 (Phoenix) APUs will have performance comparable to an RTX 3060M at 60w. Here’s to the future 🎉
Instead of dropping the resolution to 720p, would a basic upscaler like FSR or NIS work? There are tools like Lossless Scaling on Steam that basically upscale any window. The question is - would that give you better image quality than 720, at an acceptable performance level or would the overhead of running the upscaler reduce the performance level such that it offsets the visual gains?
You don't even need to install anything extra. Radeon Super Resolution works out of the box with the 680M 🙂 In my experience its overhead is negligible.
@@daniel.flassak just because this mini pc showed this much performance means you will get it all 680m. it will related to ram speed and cooling and the power. mini pc will give you best performance from 680m while laptops will have limitation since a laptop won't have same room of cooling as mini pc that has very good cooling ( even if laptop has 2 fans and mini pc has q. mini pc will should be giving better cooling🤷 )
The key to making one of these systems competitive is that DDR5 with the APUs reliance on system memory for graphics. I bet if you really dialed in the clocks and timings on the RAM you could squeeze even more oomph out of it.
Just bought one of these on Amazon Germany... I went for 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD. Can't wait to get it - like you ETA Prime, I'll be getting some faster RAM a little later and seeing what that does. I may even try linking it with an external GPU down the line. Would never have been able to make a decision without your reviews which are honestly the best I've found...so, thank you! 👍👍
A hypothetical desktop "6700G" would probably hit another 10-20% on top. With access to faster/tighter timings RAM and overclocking/undervolting of the iGPU. Alas, "7700G" for AM5 is only coming in H2 next year allegedly, but it will be Zen4/RDNA3/4nm based. So +50% over this is probably lowballing it.
You forget that, unlike Mobile APU's like 6900HX, a Desktop variant won't be power limited. So, the performance boost probably won't be just 10-20%, but probably higher (plus regular DIMM are much better than SODIMM).
My main point was that Rembrandt isn't coming to AM5 desktop (doesn't make sense for now, A620 mobos are not out yet and DDR5 is still expensive). But it's successor is coming in H2 of 2023. For now only OEM is confirmed tho, no retail.
I've moved away from using discrete video cards for a while now. Ironically the last video card I did use was a GTX 1060. To think I could have a tiny PC with that level of power that sips power (instead of guzzles) is amazeballs. I have one of these PC's 1tb/32gb on order (first batch). Really appreciate the memory review as I was thinking perhaps moving to an e-gpu down the line, but now I realise I can just wait a year and update the ram to whatever the fastest SODIMM is around at the time and call it a day.
Love the little plants. Where did you get them? BTW waiting for my UM690 fully loaded since Nov 12th. Hopefully get it before Xmas. I'll be looking out for that Hynix 6400MHz RAM.
My UM690 will arrive next week. I did order the higher speed RAM as ETA showed. Team Group is actually shipping it, Crucial just released a SKU for this same speed and some retailers are showing on their sites, so it looks like it will be out from them by EOY.
As noted in another post....the UM690 is unstable when running at a higher power and the DDR5-5600. Also Windows 11 seems to be more tolerant and stable on the UM690 than Linux is. Different kernel levels and different flavors have been having issues with this device and the higher speed RAM.
Would love to see what AMD can do with desktop class apu's imagine if they made a desktop class rdna 3 apu that was rated for, say, 200w. Imagine the performance. I for one am very interested in building a low power, quiet and cool APU based setup for my next PC. My current setup is an air cooled 7700k + gtx1080 in a mini ITX setup, I have a 750w power supply and the thing is insanely loud, hot and not very performant.
i wish amd would make a gpu cpu type socket you could have a motherboard with a amd cpu socket and next to it a gpu socket to stick a socketed gpu in it and be future proof and slots for memory just for the gpu would be so cool a double socket board , instead of whacking it on a cpu die separate them be awesome .
costs. the cost would make it uneconomical. how much are people going to pay for that? both amd and nvidia are already robbing people for gpu lower than 6 series if you understand what I mean. LTT just released a clip talking about it on their podcast. if you don't understand the costs, look at MXM3 cards. I haven't kept up with laptop gpu cards but they've been running out of spec for awhile unless there's an MXM4 that's been released in the last 5 years. those cards are expensive as hell when they're the latest and greatest but think about the costs for a mid grade card and cut the price in half and you're paying a lot.
I've had the same idea a long time ago. Costs. Think about your idea on ARM architecture even. Even if you don't have to worry about batteries and power, costs. They're trying to solder everything and you're asking for more costly sockets. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Parade pissed on. 💩😂😂
Silicon ain't cheap. But you know what else ain't cheap? Designing a socket for the GPU is not a bad idea. Designing takes lot of manpower. A lot. And even though it's not a 1:1 comparison all your traces have to talk to CPU and other things. And be the same lengths. And power. And heat. Yep. It ain't cheap. Did you tell AMD to put a GPU on a 2230?
i would like to see you address the claims of poor quality control from minisforum pc's, specifically teardowns that show either no liquid metal or thermal paste used on the cpu and/or spattering of liquid metal on the main board.
You should test GTFO/ ready or not/ elite dangerous/ elden ring / escape from tarkov .. not sure which others tbh but great video. I'm wondering if I should get something like this for it being under $800-900 and I'm moving away from a laptop setup .. will be plugging this up with some 4K Tvs for work n gaming
Hello ETA PRIME I been watching your videos for a while, subscribed & amazing job. But I really thank you for actually sharing and showing us in the Bios how to overclock ram. As a TIP, anything you do in the Bios from now on please demonstrate and show us how, we wanna learn. Thank you God Bless your the BEST.
These mini PC'S are really cool. I'm not a gamer but I want good graphics. This small form factor will fit into my home audio setup and give me a good 4k experience. Thanks for the review.
Amazing results! Right now trying to find affordable SO-DIMM DDR5 @ 5600 mhz here in Portugal is like trying to find an unicorn. The best I've found are some G.SKILL Ripjaws 16gb @ 5200 mhz at €100 a pop. I might get 2 and OC them to 5600.
I expect this year's top iGPU RDNA3 to reach 1060 rasterization perfromance And when u enable RSR and all that AI stuff, maybe reach 1660Ti levels. Good enough for any AAA 1080p60fps gaming.
The only thing that could possibly make an APU like that better outside even more radeon cores would be a 4GB or 8GB of on-package HBM buffer... Kinda like what they're doing with some of their server chips. that would alleviate the memory bandwidth issues that these chips have from running DDR memory as a framebuffer.
That is not the only thing that could possibly make an APU like that better. It would be way cheaper to include some 'infinity cache'. Or even better- to make it possible for iGPU and CPU to have access to the same big (32MB or more) cache. That would barely increase the APU size, but CPU could perform better in heavy CPU tasks, and in games IC would make iGPU happy.
@@tomkocur hence why you wouldn't have a metric tonne of it. 8GB would probably even be somewhat overkill in most existing cases so if you did a 4GB config that could trim back some expense, then have the DDR take on data that's queued for fetch but not actively needed in the current operations. It would obviously be a more expensive part to buy but considering it technically gives the chip its own on-board RAM it's not that dumb a move to try to implement...
@@NeblogaiLT or even 3D vCache since that isn't as heavily space constrained as regular on-die cache due to its stacked nature. Should be pretty damn fast as well if the 5800X3D is anything to go by
I love what amd has been able to do for graphics with less watts. Am curious to see what can be done with rdna3 architecture a small form factor graphics card like the 6400.
I've been hoping for a few years now that dGPUs would get to the point that 1080p 60FPS would be realistic. Honestly with how expensive dGPUs have become, and how meager the budget offerings have been, it's greatly welcome. Basically the new budget builds simply won't need GPUs
Is this improvement as insane as I think it is or am.I old and time seems to progressi so fast that it I don't realize this is the norm of tech. I just bought a used outdated 1060 like 3 to 4 yrs ago thought it was fantastic ,but have barely used it and now were here. What a time to be alive
Man , I can’t wait for IGPU to start getting 60-100FPS on 1080p on most games. Can you add some Apex legends, Overwatch and some warzone to your bench marks on the IGPU? Would love to see what they can do.
Its quite good. But a Mini ITX with 5600G (locked at 40W) and a RX 6400 needs not much more energy and its not much larger. But you got a much better cooling and even better performance. (+50%)
@@brohvakiindova4452 Yes really promising specially for handhelds and laptops ! But I think we might need more that 5 years to get as powerful as the x86 processors. But yes one day it might happen !
I'm currently using a GTX 1050 and it's very impressive to see how much technology improved in just a few years so that now even an integrated graphics can be better.
An interesting test would be running God of War at 1080p original. Can it lock to 30 fps? At what resolution can it not? (1080p30 Original is the PS4 equivalent). 2022 iGPU vs 2013 console
Crazy idea. Could you make a diy portable gaming hand held with it? I'm not sure if it was taki udon that did a tethered one but it would be pretty cool to just haul this little beaut around for "gaming on the go"
I like these smal form factor pc and I recently bought an NZXT H1 V2 and transfered my old PC components into the case. Much better case in the living room, my old Cosair 5000 was too big.
Thanks for another great video. Any chance you could show fighting games on this setup, MK, SF, Tekken, MvsC, DBFZ, GGear ect. I'm just curious to see how close we are to fight cabs @ 1080p with iGPUs.
honestly I would like to see what you can do with an HDPlex case and power supply. they have a new case with massive passive heatsinks for the cpu and gpu. and those GAn power supplys are just impressive.
Really looking at this for my racing rig. Wanting something small that can mount on the TV. Good timing on the vid 👌. Ppl underestimate how important a lot of fast ram is for igpu.
Even though the dGPU is not necessary *now*, it'd still be nice to see what a dGPU could do (even if this USB4.0 doesn't have the spec) since new PCs can now hotswap them without Thunderbolt. You could even use VR and strap this on your person for decent graphics, and when that's not enough, just use the dock when the graphics matter.
Incredible performance, and I was impressed by the bump in performance by just upgrading the RAM. Makes you wonder what's on the horizon when for example 8000 MT RAM drops. The most impressive thing is how little power this sips for its performance.
Have you tried messing around with UniversalAMDFormBrowser to try and access hidden BIOS settings and maybe overclock the iGP even? 2.4GHz is a bit low by RDNA2 standards, I'm betting you could easily push it to 2.7GHz+ if you can overclock it.
These are the BEST LAN PC’s. Especially for cyber cafes where people play esports titles. I haven’t seen the price as the video started but that’s impressive. To be clear, even if the price is incredibly high, as a business owner, let’s say a month or two of regular service at a gaming cafe and they’ll be paid off. Best part, you mount them to the back of a monitor and lock each of them in a box with enough ventilation and bam you have a super secure fleet of gaming PC’s to let your customers have a great time. Now sell bubble tea, snacks and other food items and you’ve got it made.
I love these videos, ETA. Keep up this awesome work, the community genuinely appreciates what you are doing here. I cant wait to see the desktop variant of this iGPU plugged into an affordable ITX. Holding out for that one. The 5700g was a great little chip....but became unfairly priced for performance with the massive GPU shortages from the last few years.
I'm curious not only on DDR5 speeds but also in memory timings in the gaming benchmarks when it comes to APUs. Maybe one day, if you are inclined to, you could do that? I don't know if it would help or hurt your UA-cam engagement algorithm thingie. Just seems like something worth pursuing when it comes to squeeze the maximum out of a DDR dependent GPU, instead of just throwing money at it with faster but still loose timings RAM.
From an emulation perspective, do we have enough power here for the limiting factor to be squarely on the individual emulators? I found that, for the most part, emulation up to WIIU at least was limited MOSTLY by anything less than a GTX 1050 at 1080p or less. Considering this is a modern CPU and you were suggesting this loosely matches the gtx 1050, I was curious if you found that the hardware meets the mark. I find that the sweet spot for emulation is the point where the limitation is the emulator and not the hardware at a given resolution (either console native, 720p or 1080p).
Still want see zen 3 / 8c & 16 T with proper dedicated 16 GB GDDR6 RDNA2 or newer. (256bit bus) system. Hopefully somebody will build system with proper dedicated vram that 4k/60 capable. Maybe Valve will or somebody else. We know hardware is out there. Ps5/XSX is proof AMD could build system with GDDR6 memory.
I mean, waiting for a proper gaming APU is still what I’m looking forward to, but if this is a sign of things to come then the future for APU gamers will be bright.
Great review, as usual👍 quick one: I couldn't find @Amazon the faster RAM you were referring to in this review? Any help/link will be deeply appreciated. Great review again
Excellent Video. Thanks for this. I've sort of been thinking about a new PC for gaming, you know to replace the frankenstein small form factor Dell with a cabled out PCIe bus extender and the AMD Radeon GPU I have literally taped up to the side to give me kickass graphics. It all works great but looks like hell.. Heh... What a mess. Anyway, I checked out the awesome Minisforum UM690 and compared to the also awesome (Intel Core i9 12900 based) NAD9. After pricing out the two alternatives (barebone), and then adding in cost of 32Gb RAM and 1TB PCIe 4.0 NVME SSD the two options are within $4 of each other (the Intel option costs $4 more). I'm going to probably buy one of these awesome high end mini systems but having trouble deciding which one... What would you or the tech-minded viewers here do? Which way to go? Both options would probably be great...
As of a few weeks ago via an AMD engineer updating the AMDGPU drivers for the linux kernel, RDNA3 is more or less confirmed for the upcoming Dragon Range APUs, no word on Phoenix as far as I know, but I don't see why Phoenix would be running Zen4 with RDNA2 while DR runs Zen4 with RDNA3, it makes more sense for both to run on RDNA3 with varying GPU specs; plus it makes sense for the handheld market for Phoenix to have RDNA3, the market is growing and I don't think AMD would throw away this opportunity to ship more RDNA3 units while they're ahead of Intel within this market segment. Though, I'm curious if DR will give us the first R9 U-spec APU, this would be massive news if it did, the handheld market could get a significant boost from this, especially if a docked handheld could boost the TDP from 15w-25w up to 35w-45w; this would be even better if the next batch of handhelds had USB4 with PCIe tunneling for eGPU docks, but I honestly don't expect this to be a feature as PCIe tunneling is optional in the USB4 spec, like many of the other alt-modes and tunneling, which hopefully USB5 will come along and fix this by making tunneling a requirement in the spec. 2023 is going to be an interesting year, I wonder if Valve has a Deck2 planned given that Aerith was a custom cobbled together APU that is going on two generations old, on paper handhelds released this year would be outperforming the deck if they also had a hyper-optimized OS like what Steam OS 3 is for the Deck, along with properly specced memory, and now the upgrade to Zen4 and RDNA3 is going to push that performance disparity even farther; it'd be a smart business move to do it anyways, why fall behind in hardware when the off-year plus updates don't actually do much for mobile hardware, updating alongside the big architectural changes is smart, especially when more companies are joining the market with more devices, I just hope Valve doesn't sit on their ass and miss an important hardware cycle that'll inevitably lead to the death of yet another Valve hardware product.
That is some amazing performance from a miniPC format! I'm kinda new this style.....would this upgraded setup play DCS (Digital Combat Sim)? Even at lower settings? I've heard it's not that optimized though. I'm just trying to get into DCS as inexpensive as possible.
What would be more useful in your tests (imho of) would be to lock frame rate at 60 (or even 40) and see how high you can tweak the graphical settings. I think most people would be more interested in that sort of real world tweaking than if you can increase the fps from say 90 to 110 by dropping the resolution to 720p. Kinda like DF do without the super in depth technical analysis. Just a thought.
I think about the graphics on Series X and playstation 5 and it makes me wonder if AMD could realistically make APUs that similarly match them in performance. By comparison these chips seem a decent way off graphic-wise. I get consoles use more power and probably have a bigger die but it makes me wonder if AMD should allocate more space to the IGPU
Is the power draw as seen on the stats accurate? So around 100w ish when gaming? Or would it draw more if measured by a kill-a-watt meter? I've always been interested on trying to game around 60w max on these mini PC's with hopefully 60fps 1080p medium to low settings.
00:1 WHY IS THE RESOLUTION NEVER ON THE DATA OR LABELED IN THE EDIT??? Is it 4K or 720... have to keep scrubbing through parts where it isn't labeled in these types of videos just to find out. The FPS for one is impressive but not the other. With all those numbers on screen you'd think the resolution would be one of them.
Nice mini PC and video! But a Windows 11 Pro OEM CD key for under $25 USD? How is that legit? And it looks like I could even use it to upgrade my Windows 11 Home system? Is that right? Or do I have to start with Windows 10 Pro in order to upgrade to Windows 11 Pro?
Should we go back and test Steam OS 3 with this faster ram?
What about e-gpu on it? Does it make sense?
Would it be possible for you to also hook it up on a kill-a-watt meter to get an accurate power consumption?
yes! 1000%
And some emulator testing too!! Please
absolutely:)
It's insane how far computers have come. I am excited to see how powerful they can make sub 20watt computers in the next years since I use solar panels
idk if its common sense or im dumb how does solar panels work when its winter?
@@bulletpunch9317 That's really nice until you get cloudy weather for multiple weeks straight, then even 20W starts to become too much when also accounting for a screen...
@@dzamija7827 For me I live in Sub-Saharan Africa. We have no winters. Just scorching hot seasons punctuated by really cold, cloudy/rainy seasons. Solar panels are a dream out here. Funny I don't have them though, I live in a rented apartment. I can, however, imagine how cool it would be having my own home and using free power from pv solar and some batteries for the evenings. Could definitely work!
@@Coprium most solar panels are still around 70% efficent on cloudly days
@@dzamija7827 Even though I hate solar panel idea, which is on its development stage, coz it can delever less than 20% efficiency. on an average 15% , if there is dust accumulated it become below that. But many dumbb arsses like u think the world revolves around US. and its winter every where.
If that's what the 6000/RDNA2 can do, then the 7000/RDNA3 will be unstoppable.
AMD told us gtx 1060 performance. It will be amazing on handled.
You might want to wait till the 8000 Ryzen. The 7000 ryzens with RDNA3 will put out a ton of heat and may not be able to hit the clocks it needs.
@The Quiver that future would exclude Nvidia because they could never make a decent apu
I can also wait for 8000/rdna4... Or maybe I'll wait for 9000/rdna5. Or maybe even...wait for it... 10k/rdna6!!!!!
Amazing right???? Says no one in the tech industry... Ever.
@@KingVulpes you are quite wrong. Nvidia ARM APUs are used in automobiles, businesses, AI, small form computers etc... They don't make x86 APUs because they don't have an x86 license.
The switch? That's an Nvidia apu. Jetson Orin devices? Nvidia.
Very impressive! I've been saying this since the days of the FM2+ A10-7850k, one day, APU's will be the way to go. If I had to build a new PC, I would probably end up doing something like this just to save space. Full desktops are nice, but huge.
Well, you still can get them in small form factor. There are some awesome cases like Fractal Design Ridge, it can fit AND cool latest cpus and GPUs, maybe at the expense of noise and temps, but whatever. Still thousands of miles ahead of any Apu on the market
@@vinylSummer A gaming rig build is better you say? No fucking shit Sherlock! I'm just saying, its nice that APU's have come so far. Not everyone lives in a country where an RTX 4090 and 2 dozen core CPU's are viable to buy or even power due to infrastructural issues. I'm sure the people in Europe struggling to heat their homes would love to game on an APU based system that sips a few watts....
@@johndoe7270 my point was that gaming rigs don't need to be huge, not that they're better than Apu builds (ofc they are).I just mentioned that even though in some scenarios a sff build MIGHT throttle, it will still be much more powerful than apus in a similar form factor.
Also, points you made in your second comment are far from truth. Now that GPU market isn't insane anymore, you can get a very decent rig for around 500$ or even less. For the GPU it'll include a new rx6600 that easily plays latest AAA titles at 1080p high and sips power, for the CPU maybe smth like Ryzen 5500 that uses fckin 30w at full load. Those components are cheap everywhere and if you care about power consumption a lot, you can tune them to use smth around 120W COMBINED. Let's say other components will use 50W. That's almost three times the power consumption of a powerful Apu build, but you get 10x the performance or more. If you actually do the math on what's the difference in money between a 65W rig and a 170w rig even in countries where power is the most expensive.. it's still negligible. It's nice that we have apus, they are nice for some use cases. But for gamers.. Not the way to go.
@@vinylSummer I completely agree. Good analysis!
Bruh....Video game consoles exist already?
This got me pretty hyped for if they release desktop apu's for am5 if you look up igpu gaming on 7000 chips the 2 cu that come standard with them pack a punch, imagine 8 or 11 like they did with the 2400g it'd be crazy
I've got an RX 680M on my Ryzen 9 6900HS in my laptop, and it's about the same performance as he shows here, using DDR5-4800.
I'd love to see an RDNA3 iGPU with 12 CUs
@@FluffyPuppyKasey yay, zephyrus g14, right?
7000g must have 12 cus rdna3
@@sownlengoc you must remember.
AMD never featured the 7000G series on its release list.
enjoy that 2 cores .
or use laptop ~
@@penonton4260 that 2×rdna2 gpu on ryzen 7x20u also called rx610m, it's slightly faster than raven vega3
This is dope. I love seeing how capable these small machines are becoming. I wish I had a need for a lot of graphical power on a PC (I do my AAA gaming on a PS5 and in the future a PS5 Pro while my design + dev work is more impacted by RAM than anything).
All I want is my Ghost Recon Breakpoint to run and I am still up the creek without a paddle.
Excellent video as always! I’ve read that the RDNA 3, Zen 4 (Phoenix) APUs will have performance comparable to an RTX 3060M at 60w. Here’s to the future 🎉
Can't wait to see emulation in this one!
How does it run SteamOS? I'm addicted to your vids; the best SteamOS youtuber by far.
Instead of dropping the resolution to 720p, would a basic upscaler like FSR or NIS work? There are tools like Lossless Scaling on Steam that basically upscale any window. The question is - would that give you better image quality than 720, at an acceptable performance level or would the overhead of running the upscaler reduce the performance level such that it offsets the visual gains?
You don't even need to install anything extra. Radeon Super Resolution works out of the box with the 680M 🙂 In my experience its overhead is negligible.
It would give better image quality, but this is comparing to his other videos, so you can see the difference.
@@daniel.flassak just because this mini pc showed this much performance means you will get it all 680m. it will related to ram speed and cooling and the power. mini pc will give you best performance from 680m while laptops will have limitation since a laptop won't have same room of cooling as mini pc that has very good cooling ( even if laptop has 2 fans and mini pc has q. mini pc will should be giving better cooling🤷 )
I really want the upcoming handhelds to beat my gtx1060 .
2023 amd phoenix point
3050 mobile specs and handheld devices come 2024
@@tomaspavka2014 let's see . Anything is possible .
Great review - I would love to see how this mini PC handles Plex Server and how many simultaneous 1080p hardware transcodes it can handle
That's a good question. Seems like a more likely use case for the hardware than a mini gaming PC.
The key to making one of these systems competitive is that DDR5 with the APUs reliance on system memory for graphics. I bet if you really dialed in the clocks and timings on the RAM you could squeeze even more oomph out of it.
Theoretically in any game of your choosing how much fps uplift could you get with a higher clocked ddr5
Just bought one of these on Amazon Germany... I went for 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD. Can't wait to get it - like you ETA Prime, I'll be getting some faster RAM a little later and seeing what that does. I may even try linking it with an external GPU down the line. Would never have been able to make a decision without your reviews which are honestly the best I've found...so, thank you! 👍👍
A hypothetical desktop "6700G" would probably hit another 10-20% on top. With access to faster/tighter timings RAM and overclocking/undervolting of the iGPU.
Alas, "7700G" for AM5 is only coming in H2 next year allegedly, but it will be Zen4/RDNA3/4nm based. So +50% over this is probably lowballing it.
You forget that, unlike Mobile APU's like 6900HX, a Desktop variant won't be power limited.
So, the performance boost probably won't be just 10-20%, but probably higher (plus regular DIMM are much better than SODIMM).
It'l be a beast for sure!
“+50% over this”… Yeah, dream on kid.
My main point was that Rembrandt isn't coming to AM5 desktop (doesn't make sense for now, A620 mobos are not out yet and DDR5 is still expensive).
But it's successor is coming in H2 of 2023. For now only OEM is confirmed tho, no retail.
@@supersanic3446 bro these people on this channel blow my mind. They throw around these big numbers like it's nothing😂😂
Impressive for integrated graphics. I can't believe the CPU is only pulling 53W... 1/10th of the RTX4090!
Sure, but how many watts would the 4090 pull if it was only producing 70 fps at 1080p?
Sure... But can your iGPU give you 3 digit fps on maxxed out settings in video games?
@@WilReid Dude you can downclock it to high heaven and the 4090 will STILL eat 25W on fucking idle.
I've moved away from using discrete video cards for a while now. Ironically the last video card I did use was a GTX 1060. To think I could have a tiny PC with that level of power that sips power (instead of guzzles) is amazeballs.
I have one of these PC's 1tb/32gb on order (first batch). Really appreciate the memory review as I was thinking perhaps moving to an e-gpu down the line, but now I realise I can just wait a year and update the ram to whatever the fastest SODIMM is around at the time and call it a day.
Yeah got the 16GB model on order too definitely plan on just upping to faster 32 GB RAM and 2TB m.2 down the road and saying yep I'm good
Love the little plants. Where did you get them? BTW waiting for my UM690 fully loaded since Nov 12th. Hopefully get it before Xmas.
I'll be looking out for that Hynix 6400MHz RAM.
My UM690 will arrive next week. I did order the higher speed RAM as ETA showed. Team Group is actually shipping it, Crucial just released a SKU for this same speed and some retailers are showing on their sites, so it looks like it will be out from them by EOY.
As noted in another post....the UM690 is unstable when running at a higher power and the DDR5-5600. Also Windows 11 seems to be more tolerant and stable on the UM690 than Linux is. Different kernel levels and different flavors have been having issues with this device and the higher speed RAM.
Would love to see what AMD can do with desktop class apu's imagine if they made a desktop class rdna 3 apu that was rated for, say, 200w. Imagine the performance.
I for one am very interested in building a low power, quiet and cool APU based setup for my next PC. My current setup is an air cooled 7700k + gtx1080 in a mini ITX setup, I have a 750w power supply and the thing is insanely loud, hot and not very performant.
All of the Ryzen 7000 chips are technically APU's. They all have integrated graphics.
i wish amd would make a gpu cpu type socket you could have a motherboard with a amd cpu socket and next to it a gpu socket to stick a socketed gpu in it and be future proof and slots for memory just for the gpu would be so cool a double socket board , instead of whacking it on a cpu die separate them be awesome .
costs. the cost would make it uneconomical. how much are people going to pay for that? both amd and nvidia are already robbing people for gpu lower than 6 series if you understand what I mean. LTT just released a clip talking about it on their podcast. if you don't understand the costs, look at MXM3 cards. I haven't kept up with laptop gpu cards but they've been running out of spec for awhile unless there's an MXM4 that's been released in the last 5 years. those cards are expensive as hell when they're the latest and greatest but think about the costs for a mid grade card and cut the price in half and you're paying a lot.
I've had the same idea a long time ago. Costs. Think about your idea on ARM architecture even. Even if you don't have to worry about batteries and power, costs. They're trying to solder everything and you're asking for more costly sockets. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Parade pissed on. 💩😂😂
Silicon ain't cheap. But you know what else ain't cheap? Designing a socket for the GPU is not a bad idea. Designing takes lot of manpower. A lot. And even though it's not a 1:1 comparison all your traces have to talk to CPU and other things. And be the same lengths. And power. And heat. Yep. It ain't cheap.
Did you tell AMD to put a GPU on a 2230?
i would like to see you address the claims of poor quality control from minisforum pc's, specifically teardowns that show either no liquid metal or thermal paste used on the cpu and/or spattering of liquid metal on the main board.
You should test GTFO/ ready or not/ elite dangerous/ elden ring / escape from tarkov .. not sure which others tbh but great video. I'm wondering if I should get something like this for it being under $800-900 and I'm moving away from a laptop setup .. will be plugging this up with some 4K Tvs for work n gaming
Would love to see how this performs at 1080p Medium. If it can hit 30fps for those that'd suit me fine :)
Hello ETA PRIME I been watching your videos for a while, subscribed & amazing job. But I really thank you for actually sharing and showing us in the Bios how to overclock ram. As a TIP, anything you do in the Bios from now on please demonstrate and show us how, we wanna learn. Thank you God Bless your the BEST.
6:08 that's like 15% gains! That's more than a "little bump"!
Heck! This little thing can beat games almost like my 2016 config. That is something. What a long journey in so few years!
These mini PC'S are really cool. I'm not a gamer but I want good graphics. This small form factor will fit into my home audio setup and give me a good 4k experience. Thanks for the review.
I think it might be interesting to compare this to a GTX 1630. I guess you can pair it with a Zen 3 CPU.
It would be nice if you can make a graph of all your tested mini PC (their wattage, temp, or fps about certain games)
Amazing results!
Right now trying to find affordable SO-DIMM DDR5 @ 5600 mhz here in Portugal is like trying to find an unicorn. The best I've found are some G.SKILL Ripjaws 16gb @ 5200 mhz at €100 a pop. I might get 2 and OC them to 5600.
Great video as always, I would like to see what you can do with an eGPU using the usb4 port.
Honestly that's my goal is small form factor like this device in the video and have everything be playable at 1080p locked at 60 fps
My favorite new channel of 2022! Great Content!
I expect this year's top iGPU RDNA3 to reach 1060 rasterization perfromance
And when u enable RSR and all that AI stuff, maybe reach 1660Ti levels.
Good enough for any AAA 1080p60fps gaming.
Thanks for the very timely review since it appears many will be seeing their UM690s very soon.
The only thing that could possibly make an APU like that better outside even more radeon cores would be a 4GB or 8GB of on-package HBM buffer... Kinda like what they're doing with some of their server chips. that would alleviate the memory bandwidth issues that these chips have from running DDR memory as a framebuffer.
Radeon™ RX Vega M GH Graphics
Look for it .
Its thare .
HBM is expensive though, which kinda beats the main reason why people use iGPUs instead of dGPUs.
That is not the only thing that could possibly make an APU like that better. It would be way cheaper to include some 'infinity cache'. Or even better- to make it possible for iGPU and CPU to have access to the same big (32MB or more) cache. That would barely increase the APU size, but CPU could perform better in heavy CPU tasks, and in games IC would make iGPU happy.
@@tomkocur hence why you wouldn't have a metric tonne of it. 8GB would probably even be somewhat overkill in most existing cases so if you did a 4GB config that could trim back some expense, then have the DDR take on data that's queued for fetch but not actively needed in the current operations.
It would obviously be a more expensive part to buy but considering it technically gives the chip its own on-board RAM it's not that dumb a move to try to implement...
@@NeblogaiLT or even 3D vCache since that isn't as heavily space constrained as regular on-die cache due to its stacked nature. Should be pretty damn fast as well if the 5800X3D is anything to go by
I love what amd has been able to do for graphics with less watts. Am curious to see what can be done with rdna3 architecture a small form factor graphics card like the 6400.
I've been hoping for a few years now that dGPUs would get to the point that 1080p 60FPS would be realistic. Honestly with how expensive dGPUs have become, and how meager the budget offerings have been, it's greatly welcome. Basically the new budget builds simply won't need GPUs
I love your reviews!!! I wanna buy mine soon
Can't wait till 7000 series mobile show up.
Is this improvement as insane as I think it is or am.I old and time seems to progressi so fast that it I don't realize this is the norm of tech. I just bought a used outdated 1060 like 3 to 4 yrs ago thought it was fantastic ,but have barely used it and now were here. What a time to be alive
Nope. Kind of slow. Back in 1986-2013 we were nearly doubling every two years. But between 2013 and 2023 tech has roughly only doubled twice.
Man , I can’t wait for IGPU to start getting 60-100FPS on 1080p on most games.
Can you add some Apex legends, Overwatch and some warzone to your bench marks on the IGPU? Would love to see what they can do.
Won't really happen. New games become more demanding also.
PayPal should NEVER be used after their stance on fining people for whatever reason they choose…
Need that OXP 2 video. We know you got one.
Its quite good. But a Mini ITX with 5600G (locked at 40W) and a RX 6400 needs not much more energy and its not much larger. But you got a much better cooling and even better performance. (+50%)
Very nice performance. Good hands on review 👍
Can't wait to see how this will go in 2 or 5 years that will be crazy. It's already impressive but in the future !
I say in 2 - 5 years the SoC solutions will start to outpace conventional PC architecture in regards of APUs.
@@brohvakiindova4452 By SoC solutions du you mean arm architecture ?
@@Pircla Yes, at least it sounds promising imo.
@@brohvakiindova4452 Yes really promising specially for handhelds and laptops ! But I think we might need more that 5 years to get as powerful as the x86 processors. But yes one day it might happen !
I'm currently using a GTX 1050 and it's very impressive to see how much technology improved in just a few years so that now even an integrated graphics can be better.
Umm.... Comparing it to the latest and greatest GPUs out there, it's really not THAT impressive.
@@muhammedraashid3667 I said that it's impressive how much technology improved over the years, GTX 1050 is definitely not that good anymore.
@@MarkoVuckovic32 Uhh.... GPUs are also technology that improved?
If you are comparing gtx1050 with an modern iGPU, How is that supposed to be fair?
They did it! an APU has surpassed a still relevant GPU! Can't wait to see how far they can take it!
Still nothing to replace my Hades Canyon NUC. But it's also much cheaper than the NUC was back in the day
An interesting test would be running God of War at 1080p original. Can it lock to 30 fps? At what resolution can it not?
(1080p30 Original is the PS4 equivalent).
2022 iGPU vs 2013 console
Crazy idea. Could you make a diy portable gaming hand held with it? I'm not sure if it was taki udon that did a tethered one but it would be pretty cool to just haul this little beaut around for "gaming on the go"
STEAM DECK
I like these smal form factor pc and I recently bought an NZXT H1 V2 and transfered my old PC components into the case. Much better case in the living room, my old Cosair 5000 was too big.
the date on yr screen cap when your activating windows says 3/01/2022 but you uploaded today !!!!! LMMFAO
Thanks for another great video. Any chance you could show fighting games on this setup, MK, SF, Tekken, MvsC, DBFZ, GGear ect. I'm just curious to see how close we are to fight cabs @ 1080p with iGPUs.
honestly I would like to see what you can do with an HDPlex case and power supply. they have a new case with massive passive heatsinks for the cpu and gpu. and those GAn power supplys are just impressive.
It's not even listed on Amazon or Best Buy.
Can’t wait to see to next GEN APUs
Really looking at this for my racing rig. Wanting something small that can mount on the TV. Good timing on the vid 👌. Ppl underestimate how important a lot of fast ram is for igpu.
Even though the dGPU is not necessary *now*, it'd still be nice to see what a dGPU could do (even if this USB4.0 doesn't have the spec) since new PCs can now hotswap them without Thunderbolt. You could even use VR and strap this on your person for decent graphics, and when that's not enough, just use the dock when the graphics matter.
Incredible performance, and I was impressed by the bump in performance by just upgrading the RAM. Makes you wonder what's on the horizon when for example 8000 MT RAM drops.
The most impressive thing is how little power this sips for its performance.
Knew good things were to come after the 5700G.
Kaby Lake G back in 2017 had a Vega 24 which was more powerful than a GTX 1050, so it's about time...
Love your work. Great vid. That’s incredible performance for an iGP
My Vega 3 be like:I'm proud of you brother.
Have you tried messing around with UniversalAMDFormBrowser to try and access hidden BIOS settings and maybe overclock the iGP even? 2.4GHz is a bit low by RDNA2 standards, I'm betting you could easily push it to 2.7GHz+ if you can overclock it.
These are the BEST LAN PC’s. Especially for cyber cafes where people play esports titles. I haven’t seen the price as the video started but that’s impressive.
To be clear, even if the price is incredibly high, as a business owner, let’s say a month or two of regular service at a gaming cafe and they’ll be paid off.
Best part, you mount them to the back of a monitor and lock each of them in a box with enough ventilation and bam you have a super secure fleet of gaming PC’s to let your customers have a great time.
Now sell bubble tea, snacks and other food items and you’ve got it made.
So I'm guessing its only appropriate to start salivating for the Ryzen 8000 series of APUs with RDNA3.
I would have loved to see the Ram usage for each game.
I love these videos, ETA. Keep up this awesome work, the community genuinely appreciates what you are doing here.
I cant wait to see the desktop variant of this iGPU plugged into an affordable ITX. Holding out for that one. The 5700g was a great little chip....but became unfairly priced for performance with the massive GPU shortages from the last few years.
Hi! Great video! The only settings that you tweeked were the ones shown in the video? or did you also change something on amd adrenaline soft?
I'm curious not only on DDR5 speeds but also in memory timings in the gaming benchmarks when it comes to APUs. Maybe one day, if you are inclined to, you could do that? I don't know if it would help or hurt your UA-cam engagement algorithm thingie. Just seems like something worth pursuing when it comes to squeeze the maximum out of a DDR dependent GPU, instead of just throwing money at it with faster but still loose timings RAM.
Now imagine how well it'll be for 7000 series (some of them) with rdna 3 igpu!
Finally!!
something i can fit in the fridge
From an emulation perspective, do we have enough power here for the limiting factor to be squarely on the individual emulators? I found that, for the most part, emulation up to WIIU at least was limited MOSTLY by anything less than a GTX 1050 at 1080p or less. Considering this is a modern CPU and you were suggesting this loosely matches the gtx 1050, I was curious if you found that the hardware meets the mark. I find that the sweet spot for emulation is the point where the limitation is the emulator and not the hardware at a given resolution (either console native, 720p or 1080p).
Still want see zen 3 / 8c & 16 T with proper dedicated 16 GB GDDR6 RDNA2 or newer. (256bit bus) system. Hopefully somebody will build system with proper dedicated vram that 4k/60 capable.
Maybe Valve will or somebody else. We know hardware is out there. Ps5/XSX is proof AMD could build system with GDDR6 memory.
I mean, waiting for a proper gaming APU is still what I’m looking forward to, but if this is a sign of things to come then the future for APU gamers will be bright.
Great review, as usual👍 quick one: I couldn't find @Amazon the faster RAM you were referring to in this review? Any help/link will be deeply appreciated. Great review again
please test different ram speeds to see if theres is a hard fall off anywhere
Awesome Video as always! Keep it up Boss!
a higher end gpu paired w this working together would be an amazing combo for getting high fps no matter the situation
Excellent Video. Thanks for this.
I've sort of been thinking about a new PC for gaming, you know to replace the frankenstein small form factor Dell with a cabled out PCIe bus extender and the AMD Radeon GPU I have literally taped up to the side to give me kickass graphics. It all works great but looks like hell.. Heh... What a mess.
Anyway, I checked out the awesome Minisforum UM690 and compared to the also awesome (Intel Core i9 12900 based) NAD9. After pricing out the two alternatives (barebone), and then adding in cost of 32Gb RAM and 1TB PCIe 4.0 NVME SSD the two options are within $4 of each other (the Intel option costs $4 more). I'm going to probably buy one of these awesome high end mini systems but having trouble deciding which one...
What would you or the tech-minded viewers here do? Which way to go? Both options would probably be great...
As of a few weeks ago via an AMD engineer updating the AMDGPU drivers for the linux kernel, RDNA3 is more or less confirmed for the upcoming Dragon Range APUs, no word on Phoenix as far as I know, but I don't see why Phoenix would be running Zen4 with RDNA2 while DR runs Zen4 with RDNA3, it makes more sense for both to run on RDNA3 with varying GPU specs; plus it makes sense for the handheld market for Phoenix to have RDNA3, the market is growing and I don't think AMD would throw away this opportunity to ship more RDNA3 units while they're ahead of Intel within this market segment. Though, I'm curious if DR will give us the first R9 U-spec APU, this would be massive news if it did, the handheld market could get a significant boost from this, especially if a docked handheld could boost the TDP from 15w-25w up to 35w-45w; this would be even better if the next batch of handhelds had USB4 with PCIe tunneling for eGPU docks, but I honestly don't expect this to be a feature as PCIe tunneling is optional in the USB4 spec, like many of the other alt-modes and tunneling, which hopefully USB5 will come along and fix this by making tunneling a requirement in the spec. 2023 is going to be an interesting year, I wonder if Valve has a Deck2 planned given that Aerith was a custom cobbled together APU that is going on two generations old, on paper handhelds released this year would be outperforming the deck if they also had a hyper-optimized OS like what Steam OS 3 is for the Deck, along with properly specced memory, and now the upgrade to Zen4 and RDNA3 is going to push that performance disparity even farther; it'd be a smart business move to do it anyways, why fall behind in hardware when the off-year plus updates don't actually do much for mobile hardware, updating alongside the big architectural changes is smart, especially when more companies are joining the market with more devices, I just hope Valve doesn't sit on their ass and miss an important hardware cycle that'll inevitably lead to the death of yet another Valve hardware product.
I want to see a Ryzen SBC with an open ended PCIE X4/X8 slot on it. Mount it to the back of a small GPU...
very good this channel, congratulations! Is it also possible to do this type of upgrade on other DDR5 SFF PCs? How beelink gtr6?
What is the best mini pc setup in your opinion today (Jan 2023)? And between the HX90X and the UM690 with 32GB 5600Mhz, what's the best?
nice video as always now am curies about the emulation test
That is some amazing performance from a miniPC format!
I'm kinda new this style.....would this upgraded setup play DCS (Digital Combat Sim)? Even at lower settings?
I've heard it's not that optimized though.
I'm just trying to get into DCS as inexpensive as possible.
What would be more useful in your tests (imho of) would be to lock frame rate at 60 (or even 40) and see how high you can tweak the graphical settings. I think most people would be more interested in that sort of real world tweaking than if you can increase the fps from say 90 to 110 by dropping the resolution to 720p. Kinda like DF do without the super in depth technical analysis. Just a thought.
I think about the graphics on Series X and playstation 5 and it makes me wonder if AMD could realistically make APUs that similarly match them in performance. By comparison these chips seem a decent way off graphic-wise.
I get consoles use more power and probably have a bigger die but it makes me wonder if AMD should allocate more space to the IGPU
I was thinking similarly. There’s even the Apple M1 chip runs Resident Evil 8 at 1080 60fps on a Mac Mini with 8GB of ram, but it’s still just a Mac.
Is the power draw as seen on the stats accurate? So around 100w ish when gaming?
Or would it draw more if measured by a kill-a-watt meter?
I've always been interested on trying to game around 60w max on these mini PC's with hopefully 60fps 1080p medium to low settings.
720p low? C’mon, crank the settings up a bit. Let’s see what this iGPU can really do.
I wish you would just test these Ryzen 6000 APU's at 1080p, I think the majority of people would rather do 1080p 30fps rather that 720p 60fps.
Nice video & review , I have a question can we put 4tb SSd card on it or there will be a limitation ?
These little mini pc's are great. Would love a tutorial vid on how to up the tdp on the um series.
00:1 WHY IS THE RESOLUTION NEVER ON THE DATA OR LABELED IN THE EDIT??? Is it 4K or 720... have to keep scrubbing through parts where it isn't labeled in these types of videos just to find out. The FPS for one is impressive but not the other. With all those numbers on screen you'd think the resolution would be one of them.
0:25 smooth camera
Nice mini PC and video! But a Windows 11 Pro OEM CD key for under $25 USD? How is that legit? And it looks like I could even use it to upgrade my Windows 11 Home system? Is that right? Or do I have to start with Windows 10 Pro in order to upgrade to Windows 11 Pro?
Do a hotrod mini pc with a massive cooler poping out
Maybe in 2030s, GPUs could problably be a defunct product now with how powerful the iGPUs are nowadays.