2 YEARS of Parts Cannon?! (Toyota EVAP - Part 2)
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- Now that we have a good understanding of the EVAP system on this 2010 Toyota Corolla, what is the actual REPAIR to get rid of the P0441 and P0455 codes?
We MUST get the monitors to run before returning the car to the customer!
What is the MORAL OF THE STORY?
THINKTOOL PROS:
www.amazon.com/dp/B08XXWHQVJ?...
Enjoy!
Ivan - Авто та транспорт
I'm of the mind that by the time a car comes to your shop it's no longer about the parts, that's already been tried and it didn't work, charge as you see fit, you're a very fair person and your expertise and time is what people are paying for, if it takes 5 hours so be it, after 2 years I'm sure anyone would be happy to be done with it, great job
yeah I agree. 3 hours is more than fair considering he has to wait for the 5 hour after two drive cycles for the evap self test. Manual testing didn't give any concrete conclusions. I would have wanted to charge more for this myself but seeing as how someone better charges 3 hours, I will be reevaluating how I do my own labor quotes.
sure but this car is worth $1500 on a good day so paying more than half of that to get it running for no one knows how much longer makes no sense
@@user-ee1ki5lz5e what part of the world do these go for $1500?
@@user-ee1ki5lz5e that’s not the mechanics problem
Special thanks to Ivan for helping me fix my car today. His wisdom made me think a lot harder and I was able to find the bad fuse panel on my VW. Thanks so much Ivan
That's the power of inspiration!
@@simontist ll too
Those aftermarket parts are built by 5 year old kids in China. If it’s Friday then for sure those parts are useless. Sad but true. Nice work. I have watched you for years and your integrity is never in question. Not so many of you guys out there now a days. Bravo sir.
Well done Ivan. Your advice on the end should be written in stone. Bonus footage is awesome!
There ought to be a law.
I’m with you Ivan. I haven’t used an aftermarket electrical parts since 1998 and life is been good. Not perfect but good.
The sign in the old mechanic shop reads:
Hourly Labor Rate
$20
$25 if you watch
$30 if you supply parts
$50 if you took it elsewhere first
$75 if you don’t like it
Congrats!
Due to inflation multiply those numbers by about 4x haha
I'll pay the extra $5. I love to watch. 😉😆
😂
I love the Dig at Scotty. Our 04 Corolla had 2 ECMS replaced...under warranty and recall. Was one of two issues. The other was the fuel pump.
I don't think it was a serious dig at Scotty. All working components have a statistical failure rate but a high value doesn't mean that every single one of them will last a "long time", even Toyotas.
Your diagnostic video's with good camera footage are highly appreciated.
Keep them coming Ivan!
One remark about this diagnostic adventure:
Has the Toyota's OEM purge valve a flyback diode build in?
If yes and it's broken or interrupted the purge valve driver in the replacement PCM will probably blow again in the future...
It could have been the cause of the first PCM failure.
The bench test only confirms that the coil is okay, but doesn't confirm the presence of a working flyback diode.
To safely test if the flyback diode inside a valve (or motor) is working, test the valve in series with a test lamp or resistor that draws about the same current as the valve's coil.
Test 1:
Power supply + on the + side of that OEM coil in serie with a test lamp will measure roughly half the voltage over each. Flyback diode not influencing any results.
Current on your power supply will show about 0.25 A; half of your only coil current.
Test 2:
Power supply + on the - side of that OEM coil in serie with lamp will give some low voltage drop over the coil and a brighly lit test lamp. Flyback diode is conducting and okay.
Current on your power supply will now show a bit less than 0.5 A; caused by only the load of the test lamp.
Results:
If test 2 gives the same result as test 1, there is NO working flyback diode present.
If no flyback diode is build in the purge valve:
Hope that the PCM have a protection diode in the driver circuitry.
I also follow the OE parts rule after having being burned by aftermarket electrical parts. Interestingly, some customers get offended when I replace their "new" aftermarket parts with OE parts and fix the problem.
It's something everyone must learn first hand.
The general public is mislead by advertising, into thinking that aftermarket parts are as good as or even better than OEM. It’s hard to blame an ignorant car owner.
@@The_Redkween Certainly there are cases where aftermarket parts are better than OE or are engineered to solve a certain problem. Such as replacing the OE plastic coolant crossover pipes with aluminum, in various Euro cars. You're right though, just as often, aftermarket parts turn out to be much worse than the quality OE. Like replica alloy wheels, "ebay" turbo headers, junk China bearings in timing sets, cheap ball joints or suspension bushings, bottom tier brake pads, junk MAF sensors... the list goes on... Or you may get a fake! Like the fake NGK spark plugs, or fake HKS blow-off valves. Not no-name replicas, but straight knockoffs, label and everything. Sometimes coming from the same factory, sometimes different. These vary from OK-ish to totally useless junk! This is happening in the PC parts world as well, and I imagine everywhere else. Even the medical world, with fake medications. Amazingly though, sometimes the (cheap) automotive aftermarket can make stuff on their own label that's actually decent. It's kind of crazy the huge variations in quality as well as the multitude of options we have today
I have noticed Toyota's are very particular about setting codes for emissions. I wonder if its because Japan was so strict on emissions earlier on compared to elsewhere.
I'm not as sophisticated on diagnostics as Ivan but I've found a good tactic for a little swaptronics testing - go to the scrapyard and find a "fresh kill" and strip whatever part it is you think is suspect. If the car was wrecked chances are it was fine when it went to the scrapyard. You have a better chance than getting into aftermarket parts.
Probably! I bet more than half of 2010 Corollas in Japan have already seen the crusher!
@@rkan2 Either that or they got sent to a middle income or 3rd world country as a grey import. New Zealand is full of Toyotas that got chucked in Japan because they were 5 years old.
I doubt it - Japan pretty much follows the EU standard, which allows much higher emission than the US, esp. California. California has some of the strictest emission in the world, so much so they mandated all manufactures use OBD2 (which California designed/invented). The EU standards allow for 3x more pollutants than US Tier 3, nvm California.
@@ckm-mkc one standard in Japan that Cali doesn’t follow is leaks. In Japan, cars can’t leak anything……at all…..not even a drop.
Most asian cars were over engineered until they figured out they can make them cheaper and they are still better
One thing I'd like to know if different between the two solenoids is the inductive kickback. That can wipe out a driver. Perhaps one had some kind of suppression the other did not.
And maybe the design quality of the plastic parts, there could be a burr or two in the passages messing up the through put of the valve and degrading the performance thus setting the code?
I tell people all the time (mostly Jeep blogs) "DO NOT IF AT ALL POSSIBLE REPLACE ANY ELECTRICAL COMPONENT WITH ANYTHING BUT OEM!" It may not be show an issue right away, but chances are it will eventually. I don't know why, but I have box of aftermarket Jeep TJ parts to prove it! Great work, Ivan! I knew you were onto something when you mentioned he replaced the OEM purge solenoid. 👍
Ivan... You're so worth the drive for one of us knuckleheads ! .... still learning in Idaho
I was going to guess, what new part has failed? Luckily there weren’t many too choose from. Some owners of these older Toyotas just absolutely refuse to throw the towel in, until it really is that time. I understand that way to well. Great job Ivan , and I’m sure the owner is happy.
Absolutely loved the rant on aftermarket electrical parts! I could listen to you talk about the dumb things vehicle owners do for a whole hour if you ever wanted to change it up lol. Good work and amazing patience! Thank you!
I'm surprised for sure. So many variables. I was thinking wiring or some kind of hose routing issue given all of the DIY work done. Great job Ivan!
Been waiting for Part 2 with anticipation, but wasn't expecting this outcome! Great diagnostic, Ivan! And another lesson regarding parts cannon (actually, the same lesson again).
And now that I've finished it (wild that's all it was!), my theory on the failed output:
The car manufacturers, in a quest to save money, are skipping blocking diodes on the driver outputs to coil driven actuators.
*Any* DC coil is going to generate inrush current against the driver. Half an amp at 12v is actually not insignificant.
Any driven outputs (other than one actuated by relay) will eventually fail after getting hit with inrush current over and over.
The pinball industry learned this in the 80s, which is why every solenoid in those things is protected with a diode.
When the diodes fail, become disconnected, etc ... driver failure almost certainly follows.
I concur, I saw those spikes on the scope.
I am not as knowledgable as you, so may I ask a question? If the purge solenoid had a relay installed to operate it, would that protect the driver in the computer?
@@dws2313 likely so, because relays have a much much smaller coil in them. It's why relays control so many things in cars, acting as the interface between CPU and load.
Maybe put a scope on those purge valves ! While the energized current is very similar it would be good to see the V/A curve when changing state. Who knows how the aftermarket valve transitions ( either due to coil or mechanical properties) You'd think the ECM drivers would be pretty robust but everything has a limit . Great video Thanks
What I've learned from boat repairing is the owners don't care about the bill they just want it fixed completely and correctly. I think your bill was a gift to that owner. You take on real challenges. Go Ivan
3 hours was a very fair assessment of the work done. Oem is tailored for the designed operation of the engine. Any item not complying with these tight specs will result in complete failure of the system management. The amount of variables that have to work in harmony , is amazing. Glad the job has a happy result for the patient customer and justified the journey. Good advice about holding on the original parts. The fact that the emissions test was passed is a good testament to a job well done. DIY is ok at a stretch but a time comes when to move up the professional ladder is the best and only option. The wealth of knowledge and experience to achieve this level competence is unattainable for the ordinary diyer. Looking forward to the next adventure on the trail of the unpredictable 4 wheelers.
Its not funny that a new computer was foiled by a brand new [bad] solenoid. Not only is computer I/O sensitive to impedance variables, but not all coils are made the same. Matching system voltage is all that is needed".? Wrong. A coil has two current requirements to work right: latching and holding. It takes more current to initially get a coil to change states than it does to keep it there - the computer output has to be able to handle both or system fails. The mechanical package design of a solenoid or relay is no indication of coil requirements - sometimes a deal like this might make engineers add a pilot relay. .
Great! I was waiting for this video.
Keep up the good work!!
Greetings from Greece!
I have been waiting all afternoon for this
Awesome feedback and work Ivan!!
Great job as usual Ivan!!!!...awesome!!👍👍😎
Been waiting all day for this
Wow that's a crazy set of circumstances.
Reminds me of a trailblazer that had 2 alternators , 3 computers , a used cluster to fix a battery light, Repair of serial data wire was the cure . Original GM parts put back and he is now a loyal customer
Success! Hooray! Not as clean and neat as usual Ivan, but I think your investigation and resolution was sound and you left us with great advice on sticking with OEM parts.
Ivan, great find and approach ur thought process always amazes me and each video I learn some thing thanks for doing what u do. cheeeeers
Very interesting case there Ivan!
Episode packed with a solid lesson to boot.
The fixed process past with flying colors. Great job Ivan.
This took some doing! You stuck with it and located the problem. Good one Ivan.
Great diagnosis as always 👍
Wasn’t expecting that! Wow that’s crazy !!! 😮. Great diag.
I think your videos are so good, should have millions of views.
So you kept referring to vapor pressure rising back toward atmospheric within 10 seconds. That's accurate when the Toyota is doing its own Evap test while the key is off. The purge valve will get commanded 100% on. The same thing happens when you use a scan tool to perform the automatic Evap test. But when you choose to do the manual Evap test, the ecm then pulses the purge valve. Silly, but I've seen amazing techs get tripped up in the difference between the automatic test and manual test.
I've also never seen that driver fail. Not saying that its impossible. But my gut says that someone damaged it with poor testing techniques.
Hey PJ thank you for the insider information! Someone mentioned in Part 1 that there is a TSB on this? I couldn't find it... Car history is questionable for sure. But something had to break in the first place to promote any sort of "testing" right?
Yeah ThinkTool only had "Manual" test available. 100% Purge would definitely vent the canister faster than 30% clicks :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics yeah, there is a TSB for water intrusion in the charcoal canister and there is an updated filler neck for it.
I’d love to know what the first failure actually was. Leak detection pumps are a fairly common failure. Put the parts cannon probably created more problems than it fixed.
@@VoltageDropDiagnostics Coming to Super Saturday next week? I'll be there, and Keith too!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I’m teaching there. I’m actually teaching a class on toyota evap systems haha
@@VoltageDropDiagnostics LOL that's awesome! You could show a clip of this video 🤣
I'm guessing the customer may not have knowledge of this information. On exactly sensitive the ecm circuits are and why the OEM parts are much better than the aftermarket parts getting sold across the counter at the parts store. But this is not the only customer without this knowledge. I luckily experienced it firsthand while going to school for automotive technology 10 years ago. I had a 97 4.0l ford ranger with whatever bank running lean fault code. When I was in advanced diagnostics class, I put the smoker on the intake manifold to check for vacuum leaks. I was searching all around the intake manifold gaskets but found no leaks. The instructor found idle air actuator was leaking more than it should have been allowed that was replaced 6 months earlier. The actuator had worked within the ecm threshold for 6 months then the casing had developed a leak. That experience was invaluable. Great work Ivan!
Great job on Diagnosing on this Toyota. Im still blown away that the Dealer that sold this car didnt buy it back from him..Great Job Sir as usual...And Video.
Great job Ivan , we all can learn so much from you. Sure you are really patient and won't give up easy. I fixed a PO 422 dtc on my Mitsubishi. And bought a oem O 2 sensor . Not cheap but known good , cause you teached me well. Thank Sir ! Greetz John.
I was speculating one of the restrictor orifices was partially blocked, leading to excessive time elapsed to atmospheric pressure, but you proved me wrong. Enjoy your videos, thank you.
So the reman PCM was the fix but the replacement purge valve was setting the codes. IOW, the owner fixed the problem but caused another with the parts cannon. The owners letter said "I have a feeling it will probably be something that will make me feel stupid." Well, the owner shouldn't feel stupid because this is not the first time Ivan found the solution by using the one combination of parts that had not been yet tried. 👍
First time shame on the corporation selling the parts, second time shame on you. These huge corporate auto parts stores on every corner are pushing garbage parts AND are now charging a crazy amount of money for those garbage parts. ITs actually the same price or cheaper driving to a dealer and buying OEM parts over some garbage from Autozone. I looked up parts for one of these stores the other day because I needed parts right now. Front Brake rotors and pads for a 2009 Focus, $260. OEM MSRP is that much. AC compressor, $600.🤣
@@mph5896 I don't know where you get the idea that the dealer is cheaper. I buy some parts from the dealer, but I've bought exactly OEM brand parts for a third the price of the dealer (for Matrix/Vibe). Heck, for the local Mazda dealer, I can't even get those bastards to call me back with a parts quote. I suspect that if you're not a shop, they don't want to sell you parts - bring it in or suck on it.
For a 'performance' front rotor? How about on-sale for 322.25, not including taxes and shipping? Brembo? less than 70. For the 'generic' rotors, Toyota still wants 60 - the various generics don't get that high.
Not to mention that sometimes the OEM parts aren't exactly high quality anyway, so replacing them with aftermarket is OEM quality :) Lastly, some parts aren't even available from the stealers anymore. (the older they get, the more this happens, of course).
Me? I'm still chasing a P0171, and it's been driving me nuts. I'm about to pull the injectors and flow test them. (Been replacing older cooked parts anyway, but the only 'not made for the job' changes I've done is using standard hose rather than molded replacements for vacuum lines. )
@@tbelding I have been buying parts for 30 years. Personal experience is where I got the idea of parts being same price or cheaper from the dealer for some items. 😉Compared to local auto parts stores such as Autozone.
@@mph5896 - in 35 years, I don't think I've found anything other than oil filters cheaper at a dealership. I'll sometimes _pay_ the extra, because of various reasons, but that's all.
Ivan. Great job on the Diag. I myself don’t like dealing with Toyota evap problems.
Have you ever run across a car problem you were not able to diagnose? Love your videos. I don't work on cars but I have learned a lot about modern cars watching your videos.
Wow tough one for sure. Good job !
Nice work!
definitely a tough one, crazy video . at least he shouldn't have more evap problems for a while since everything is new lol
Wow! I totally agree with you Ivan on always stay oem on parts, leave it the way it is before parts cannon!! Unreal how things work lol. Awesome video!! Im amazed how you did it. Lol
Great job ! BTW - I've often had nothing but trouble with aftermarket electrical parts in Toyota's.... they don't seem to play well together. So yes, I would agree that's it's best to always stick with the OEM part.
Great vid!!
Great work!
3 hrs was my number also. That diag was worth every penny I've got 45 years of doing diagnostics when customers get involved in yhe repairs it always makes it more difficult
Great work 👏 👍
Hi Ivan,
Glad you had another successful ending. Stay safe.
Holy crap man. What a challenge!
CEL its the favorites car emoji 😂
Great job Ivan 👌
Bravo Ivan u did it
Ivan after 2 years and at least 4 repair places 3 (6 hours would have been fine) hours of diagnostic would be a bargain. I still don't understand why aftermarketers sell parts they know are not exact and charge near the same price. I did get lucky on my computer module from Autozone under the coils on my 2002 Buick Lesabre lasted 7 years before it died. I am so glad you tried the old solenoid before getting another computer. Too many cooks spoil the broth until they get a Borscht cook.
Exceptionally well done Ivan, and a great deal of work. I think you probably spent a little more than 3 hours, so that is very fair for a labor charge.
For future reference, the Purge VSV should be pulsed at a period of 100mS, with a duty cycle of 90% at idle, after 10 minutes of idle. That leaves a low time of 10mS, or on (low) 10% of the time, every 100mS. This is according to the 2010 Toyota Corolla OEM (Toyota) service manual, Volume 1. I do not know how long this pattern runs.
I cannot tell for sure if the ThinkTool PROS is pulsing the Purge VSV on (low) long enough. It is hard to see the Div (vertical) lines in order to see what the on time is. It should be on (low) at least 10mS every 100mS. The best I can tell, it is on about 6.5mS every 65mS, approximately. If so, this may or may not be long enough to do the proper purge. It is on for a shorter period of time, but turns on more often (roughly 2 times (for 6.5mS) every 130mS versus 1 time (for 10mS) every 100mS). If it works, using this same test on the ThinkTool PROS with the OEM Purge valve, the only explanation I can come up with is the OEM part opens up farther when fully opened than the after market part, or this pattern goes on for a longer period of time. Now, of course this is with the vehicle running at idle, and this could change at higher RPMs, and I don't have any information on that.
A rough calculation is the specification says 10mS every 100mS, the ThinkTool PROS pulses it 6.5mS every 130mS. This works out to the specification has the valve on (open) 100mS every second, and the ThinkTool PROS has the valve on (open) 50mS every second. If these calculations are correct, the ThinkTool PROS would have to run this pattern twice as long to have the valve open for the same amount of time. If it fully purges is greatly dependent on how long this pattern (or any similar pattern) is run.
Please note that this applies to models ZRE142, and AZE141. I do not know what model this is, so cannot say for sure if this specification would apply to this vehicle or not. I think it does, but i don't know for sure.
Again, Ivan, a great job doing what those before you could not. And, thank you for putting in the extra work to film this for everyone.
Omegaman
Hi Ivan, friend of mine over here had a check engine light on, and the code was for the purge pump, that was changed and the problem was cured...think that might have been a Toyota, seems some vehicles have these pumps and some dont....Fred in Uk.
Working through and/or fixing other peoples work is a PIA no doubt about that. I understand the concept of what is a fair amount of time (cost) that something "should" take, however that principle is blown out of the water when dealing with other peoples efforts prior to you looking at it. In these circumstances I am in the "charge what it costs" camp. The amount it cost for you to work on it is far less than replacing the car or the owner spending more money on it without avail. At least this customer had accurate records and kept the parts, though as you indicated, it took you much longer to work through than it would normally have if it came to you untouched. Good work Ivan.
thank youuu. i have the same problem in Hyundai same codes, replaced the purge valve but nothing.. thank youu
Excellent series with some very valuable lessons! The tongue in cheek saying of “$250/hr if you worked on it first” isn’t all that far off from the truth. I also preach OEM only for anything with an electrical connector.
I recently had a similar situation on an ‘09 Yukon where an aftermarket set of 8 brand new Denso injectors (installed by the customer) had wildly mismatched flow rates and kept setting misfire codes. The customer had also replaced the battery, throttle body, plugs, coils, and cats. The original injectors were discarded so a new set of 8 ACDelcos fixed the truck up albeit for a pretty penny.
I'm wondering if OE solenoid might have a failed flyback diode. Would be interesting to measure the aftermarket solenoid for one. A failed clamp might result in enough overshoot to kill driver(s).
I would expect the flyback diode to be in the driver circuit, but who knows.
@@rickwest2818 Yeah if it were in the solenoid that would make the solenoid polarity sensitive and I don't think it is.
probably integral body diode inside the mosfet driver. could be a bad capacitor/leaked/shorted or diode/resistor not pulling the gate low(mosfets love to stay on)
@@John_Ridley: You speak TRUTH, but for sure I do see solenoids with integrated diodes on varius machinery and PINBALL machines.
Fascinating!
I am in complete agreement with original parts for replacement. The mystery to me, which I have asked many sources including my parts store, is why and how companies (like Dorman) can market products that have a high failure rate or flat out don't work.
Because they are just cheap enough (at least compared to oem) that people keep buying them. Auto parts store doesn’t warranty used electrical parts so it doesn’t cost them or Dorman money. If anything it makes them more money when people buy another ‘cheap’ sensor. With the general public, cheapest price by in large wins out over quality.
Wow! That was a tough one!
I always tell my owners of the cars I work on, not to buy Dura NOT Last parts. Especially for electronic/electrical components. Always use OEM and definitely not Dorman. Go to a junkyard and pull the OEM.
Many times these junk parts are more expensive.
Nice diag on this one, sometimes it’s not as simple as a purge solenoid replacement. I’ve noticed on some recent jobs that Honda and Toyota did not have tests for purge valve but did have complete system tests. Would be nice if manufactures standardized evap systems, some are very over engineered.
Ivan, Flag Ship One PCMs are junk yard units. FSone will send the salvage yard paint and stickers, software to change vin,and many times they are shipped right from the salvage yard.
Salvage yard owners have said this. FSone has a business model that takes your money, tells you that they possess the reman unit when they don't. They bank on a few things: 1. You are just guessing that the PCM will fix the issue with your car. 2. you won't go through the hassle of returning and arguing with them. 3. Most oem used PCMs are higher quality than most remans. Sadly they are usually right on all three. In conclusion, I'd like to say that
Salvage PCMs are a good decision, If you are certain what is wrong with your PCM, and can recheck with the salvage unit installed. If you are not a professional Tech, usually a locksmith will come out to your house, correct vin and security for a nominal fee.
Flagship One has actually impressed me lately. They successfully repaired a faulty no comm ECM on a Nissan truck within one week, since they couldn't source the correct replacement. Ended up being cheaper for the customer as well! 👍
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics glad to hear it. Maybe they have changed their business model. I was speaking from experience that myself and two other shops here in Indianapolis have had. It all comes down to this, your business reputation is only as good as your worst employee. Employees are what make or break you in a service industry. Glad you had a good experience.
I haven't done business with Flagship One. BUT I do use used PCM's. I can buy them from a local salvage yard for dirt cheap (like $50), flash them for programming fee and good to go. GM charges $40 per vin, Ford $50 for 2 days. Flash with J2534 interface box and back on the road for about $100.
nothing lasts forever but the toyota seems to have a higher reliability than the others. That's why I drive one. Thanks for sharing.
Toyotas last because they are so de-tuned and don't have much horsepower. The old 90's F150's with a 302 V8's were the same way. I have a 2002 F350 7.3L diesel 6spd manual 4x4.. and these Diesels were de-tuned also, so it's not uncommon to see them with 750k to even a million millions on the same engine. Mine has 340k miles and it's still an awesome truck and going strong. Honda's tend to last well into the 300k miles mark also, just like Toyota's. I just wish the Aftermarket was full of UPGRADES, rather than parts that are junk half the time.. So if a purge valve or fuel pump fails, it would be so sweet to see that the after market has an upgraded fix that will never fail again; But for some reason, they go the other way and build junk parts for as cheap as they can; smh.
Same in construction. Dont toss anything until the job is done and the project is cleaned
Great job
I wouldn't be surprised if the driver in the ECM failed because of it being "checked" inaccurately (maybe shorted/jumped) creating a different problem but another part in the parts cannon fixed the original problem.
The Only problem I have with this video is Ivan did not show the data with OEM vs Duralast (the graph), he took a guess that OEM may solve the problem. The bench test didnt prove a difference, but obviously there is.
When my Toyota Yaris started misfiring on a trip up the mountain one day, and I called the roadside service to check it out, the technician told me, yes Toyotas are reliable but not with the electrics. In my case it was one faulty coil pack out of the four. I bought 4 OEM Nippon Denso coil packs on eBay and 4 OEM NGK spark plugs from a parts store just to be sure and have not had a problem since. And yes, I still have the 3 original good OEM coil packs just in case... Moral of the story, electrical parts are the most vulnerable parts in a modern car, but the good news are that they are cheap and easy to replace. If you have a car with substandard piston rings or some other mechanical part that wears prematurely because the manufacturer just didn't care enough to make sure they got that right, then you have to replace an engine, which is a lot more than just replacing some electrical doodad. Oh, and I saved $500 by doing the job myself. I got the car towed home and let it sit for a few weeks while I ordered the parts which cost $100. I was quoted $600 by some mobile mechanic to come out and do the job. Not a good option for a car that is only worth $3000.
Is it possible the new evap needs this bidirectional test to set reference data on it ? Thank you for your videos
Wow.. All that unnecessary parts $$ $ Excellent work Ivan put these other shops to shame. lol
How much is your rate per hour for diagnosis ?
i try to do oem because now some oem parts are cheaper than aftermarket. but I just ran into a toyota a/c compressor there was sensor that is like $50 and will fix the a/c not working. toyota wants you to replace the $700 compressor. great video
Nice work Ivan, that is the big problem, know-it-all owners screwing with their cars and "guessing" what it needs, SMH.. makes your job all that much tougher. Thanks!
Owner didn't have any other options...
It seems like this owner was dealing with what a previous owner did as well, considering the wiring harness bypasses. Most people also don't think about going back and checking _prior_ repairs after doing further repairs. That's true in a lot of industries. I've been doing the 'parts cannon' on my car for a P0171 issue, but the parts I'm shooting are ones that mostly should have been replaced/checked at least 5 years ago. That is, vacuum hoses, pcv valve, gas cap, etc. The shop I was _going_ to use ended up ticking me off when they worked on my wife's car, so I'm not going to take mine there. (I have a real problem when the mechanic refuses to order from certain suppliers because "they aren't real parts" (roughly). It's one thing when it's a moving specialty part, such as a compressor or alternator, but when it's a cast aluminum oil pan, and they _force_ me to pay them $450 for an oil pan that I could get for $180 - that's greedy scumbags. If they'd ordered what I wanted, and upcharged me an extra $50? Certainly. So they lost my business completely. BTW - the specific company they refused to use because they aren't 'for professionals', just for DIYers? NAPA. Whose big customer base is heavily made up of small mechanics shops. Yeah - poser. )
Okay, this was a good one.
Round and round you went! 3 hours seems reasonable to me. Thanks for the video, Ivan.
U wouldnt b saying reasonable if u had to pay the bill.
Considering had Ivan had done it from the start he'd be out one part and maybe two hours tops. His unhappiness is a learning experience as well as driving the car longer to get his money back.
@@elcomandante9299 LOL other alternative is MORE PARTS CANNON xD
@@elcomandante9299 100% this car is not worth the 3 hour diag fee
@@elcomandante9299 After countless hours and parts at other shops he finally brought the car to Ivan to get it fixed once and for all. You can pay a guy like Ivan (Who's shop rate should be double that of a regular shop) for a proper diagnosis, or keep racking the hours and parts up at your local shop.
Whatever mystery exists in cars it always finds its way to ivan...oem always i dont know why people dont get it.its easy on tech and easy on owner as well..
Hello from New Zealand 🎉
Now the question is if the original ECM is fixable, often the final driver is a discrete MOSFET transistor mounted standalone on the PCB.
It might take BigClive or EEVBlog to fix it, but most people familiar with electronics should be able to figure out if it's possible or not.
Just follow the signal path from the pin in the connector. The wizardry of Dave Jones and Big Clive not needed to troubleshoot and replace a transistor or two. Often the real challenge is identifying the fried component(s).
You are great!!!
I can see the purge valve being a cause of a fault. I saw this before on one of Paul Danners videos. He replaced a purge valve on a Hyundai (I think it was a Hyundai). Apparently the purge valve wasn't electrically built the same way. So the aftermarket purge valve is working. But isn't opening and closing at the right amount. Meaning the coil inside is wound differently and thus changes the open and close time. This effectively changes the flow rate. So in this example it seems like the pcm was bad. But then the replacement of the purge valve caused a new problem. Like you mentioned electrical parts have to be oem. I run into this a lot at work. And I've mentioned it before. Anytime I diagnose an electrical fault. Then install the aftermarket part. And the original fault is still there. My first move is to tell the service writer to either get me another part. Or get me an oem part. If the oem part is installed and the fault is still there then I'll take the hit. And keep diagnosing. But often, very often, it's the former. And I'll chase my tail thinking I did something wrong. So I stopped doing that on account of going through this too many times.
Yup learn by experience for sure :)
Why you trust tank pressure sensor ?
Ivan your videos are great and you are definetly a master when it comes to skills and interpreting the data.
But in this case study i did not see which piece of data led you to condemn the aftermarket purve valve other than the fact that the evap readiness monitor was complete. They both caused the same decay in vacuum when pulsed and consumed similar current. Since the aftermarket purve valve is sealing correctly, why did the gross leak code set?
You may as well aim that parts cannon at your own head. Test, don't guess. Thank you Ivan for your videos!!!!!
On the plus side, Ivan found where the giant ants are hiding...
I think comparing the dc current for the solenoids is not a good comparison since that's not the default operating state, could be failed flyback diode or something that was allowing the voltage spike from the collapsing magnetic field to cook the driver circuit. Best regards,
A good long rip on the full auto parts cannon can be fun sometimes..
But that ammo gets expensive.
The real story is...The power probe blew up the driver in ECM from the OG tech/parts replacer working on it!
Wow I cannot believe the amount of parts that have been thrown at that poor little Toyota interesting to have seen what actually went wrong with the dang computer why would it mess up was one of the wires shorted or something possibly in the old harness very interesting video thank you
When people get really frustrated, they often start trying _anything_ to fix a problem. I see it in IT a lot. I've done that with my own car, but the parts I've been replacing, while "parts cannon", mostly needed to be replaced anyway, as a general maintenance. (intake manifold gasket, vacuum lines, PCV valve, gas cap, etc. With a 2007 car that wasn't heavily maintained in its previous ownerships, it's normal.)
Failed ECM driver could have been due to back EMF from the aftermarket solenoid. Maybe the OEM solenoid has a freewheel diode built-in to protect the ECM and wiring from back EMF when switching off, and the aftermarket one doesn't.
This puzzling problem may have to do with leak on the canister side of aftermarket purge valve. You checked only engine intake side of the purge valve and it held the vacuum and assumed that canister side would hold the vacuum as well. This is where the mistake could be. I have same code on my ES350 and I checked only the intake side and it held vacuum and assumed the purge valve is good. However, based on someone's comment, I checked the canister side of purge valve and it was leaking vacuum badly. In this case, the vacuum test that ECM does will fail since vacuum pump creates vacuum from the canister side. What could be happening in this video may be that the aftermarket purge valve was leaking from the canister side even though intake side was holding vacuum while OEM purge valve was holding vacuum on both sides. This could be what made the difference. It is always good to check both sides of the purge valve instead of only intake side. Most of the UA-cam videos only show checking intake side and, for this reason, most of people fail to check canister side and end up wasting a lot of time looking for problem elsewhere.
You know Ivan, you had me second guessing this too. How was the PCM drawing those 2 codes and yet, everything seems to be working as intended? Doesn't make any sense. A mere .3 millivolt difference between the 2 valves is margin of error as far as I'm concerned. There must have been another factor involved. Anyway, good stuff Ivan.
This is a very interesting scenario. Could the following be somehow related? There is a TSB for 2010 through 2013 Prius that involves the Purge VSV. It says replace the purge VSV AND reprogram the ECM with the latest calibration to address this condition. It also implies that the old ECM programming was causing a vacuum line to the VSV to become unseated.
Wow! what a diagnosis. I'd say 3 hours was a BARGAIN!
I suppose that good diagnostics should/could start with checking over the car to find and refit any OEM electrical component parts found in the car one by one to see if the problem resolves :]
As you say, ivan, in this video - OEM only for electrical components with no 'ifs or buts'.