Bring More WATER!! (No Crank-No Comm after Rainstorm)
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- As my good friend Keith DeFazio says, Euro cars are FISHBOWLS!
This 2007 BMW Wagon had some significant water intrusion in the trunk area, and now refuses to crank over with several modules being OFFLINE.
Where would you start your diagnostic process?
This is a fun one, let's go!
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Ivan
BMW with 50 codes.
Scotty: Endless money pit!
Ivan: It just needs less parts to clear them all.
They all do that when the battery goes dead...Why I said he has a battery issue from the very start. As BMW and Mercedes Benz are notorious for it..Cadillac comes in second. As I seen people toss parts at them. All the while the battery is either shit or the Senor went out.. And you need that Sensor. The alternator relies on it. As the ECM controls the Alternator through the battery sensor...
But there's a You Tube video on how to fix everything! Lol
Diagnostic techs like us don't give up. Dealerships give up and send these cases to us. We can't give up. Where else are they going to go?
I've always wondered how to properly charge for diagnostic work. For one the tech could be spending hours barking up the wrong tree, is the customer liable for that? What's the middle ground here? Should one hour be enough to at least zero in on the issue ? How do you charge for diag?
To the salvage yard to scrap it..lol
@@Usmanthemecano Local shop used to charge $240 to park on their lot. Appointment only. That got customer 1:45hrs. Then they would call customer and explain what WASN"T wrong but needed more time. Most issues were found in the initial time. Had the chance to work there but passed. Too old & blind. Retired April 2020. I'm DONE!
@@Usmanthemecano when its cleanup work from another shop or technicians mistakes i usually go hour for hour or more(depending how bad it is) But if its interesting and I can steal the customer I just buy more time so I can troubleshoot and stay sharp without interfering with normal workflow. Troubleshooting is fun and and should be, but we deserve to be paid for our time.
Junkyard
Excellent diagnosis Ivan, just one issue. Having the battery sensor disconnected will effect the customers charging circuit, note if you run the motor without the IBS (intelligent battery sensor) charge voltage will default to 13.7v as it does not know if battery is empty or fully charged. Current will be around. 10-15amp which is not enough to charge the battery on short trips. If IBS is present and connected, charge voltage will go up to 15.2v and 80amps (for a fully discharged battery) or 12.1v for a fully charged battery. It would pay to replace the dead IBS to save his battery and not have his smart alternator working on limp mode all day. BMW won't throw any faults when IBS is disconnected except that it cannot see the IBS. Possibly something to mention to the customer. Anyways. Excellent work as always Ivan. Nop notch mechanic.
There ya go. That is the drawback of having it disconnected. But he should just replace it. I think they're $190.
13.7 sounds pretty good to me. No BS from the BS.
It's not just the voltage you have to worry about 13.7 may sound good, but your current will be limited. If your battery is at 50% capacity. IBS reports to ecu, ecu will then command alternator to up both voltage and amps. Charging can go up to 60amps and get you charged up quickly. Without IBS and at 10amps charge you will have to drive the car for 12hrs straight before you charge it to full capacity. Meaning you can never recover from a starting event and your battery will forever remain at 50% which lowers the capacity of your battery and destroys it quickly. So to save money on an IBS you will be going through batteries every 6-12 months.
"It's on it's last legs to the junkyard"
Nods approval
*its last legs. No apostrophe.
Halfway expected Keith to casually stroll by and say, "Hey... Did ya think about unplugging that battery current sensor yet?"
(I'm at 20:00 minutes) The CAS Wakeup line is shorted to ground. This is a logic line, it shouldn't be able to light a 1A test light at all. The little spikes you see on the scope is the CAS trying to put voltage on the line, and shutting off after a brief period due to the short.
The sleep timer for these modules is about 30s-1 minute, so you didn't wait for long enough.
Right, he realy simply did not wait long enough. I didnt know about the current that it should be able to draw but it sound plausible.
PS: yeah now min 30, he found the culprit
I have a 2006 530xi wagon. There also are a whole bunch of small modules under the spare tire in a foam carrier in the spare tire well. There was a service bulletin to move all of the modules out of there and into the compartment on the driver's side rear of the car because of potential flooding.The cables are long enough and there is plenty of room in that compartment to move them pretty easily. No modifications to the harness or modules required. I used heavy duty Velcro to mount the modules in the new location.
Typical German design issue: 'this shouldn't happen, therefore we don't need to take it into account'
Japanese philosophy: 'this HAS happened, therefore we MUST design to prevent recurrences'
Yup...actually the foam carrier kept them afloat...kind of like a life preserver HAHAHA
Given BMW's history, they should have considered that flooding was a definite possibility, lol.
It is amazing how many modules are factory installed in death locations in so many cars...
It's like 'orchestrated'.
They build these cars for wet environments. Just amazing they don't test them for it. Battery in the right rear wheel well just inviting owners to drive through the puddles.
I was screaming battery sensor for the entire video, that crap is notorious for failing and pulling down various communication lines depending on the trim of the vehicle. Had the same crap happen to a friend's 530d E61, it was pulling down everything except the ECM and TCM, you can imagine the Christmas tree on the dash (30+ DTCs), lol.
YES!!!!! I was also screaming battery sensor as i just dealt with this same thing on an X5 the other day!!! I doubt Ivan heard me from my front porch 150 miles away though, lol!
Same here, right when I saw the A0BD code I knew that something was pulling 15WUP down and it usually is the IBS.
Wake up to a new video from Ivan,
just watched Eric's video yesterday
you two are the BEST on UA-cam
at diagnosing electrical problems,
what a great start to the weekend!!!!
AND a new Vice Grip Garage Cadillac revival last night... Along with a new Car Trek series this week, it's been a great week to take off work :)
Completely 100% agree with this, Ivan and Eric the two best diagnostic/ repair channels on YT.
I'd also highly recommend Wes's channel (Watch Wes Work), though most often he works on trucks/tractors, he did a good chunk of car diagnostics as well.
I also like scannerdanner.
@@sblagg527 What about ScannerDanner?
Battery sensor WE DON"T NEED NO STINKING SENSOR Skrew that! Great job Ivan!
Sensors will be reconnected (after repair/replace) on next trip to the dealer if that ever occurs. It's the dealer's 2nd line of revenue after profit from sale of vehicle.
This is something like that old DiagnoseDan video - "No start because of a door handle?" ITS BMW AGAIN. Nice one Ivan
I remember that video. Can you imagine going to the customer stating "Your $75,000 dollar BMW wont start due to a defective door handle. The customer would look at you as if you had 10 heads!!!
Look fellas, there are some very talented diagnosticians on the YT here. Diagnose Dan, SMA, Scanner Danner, and many others. If my life depended on getting my ride running in 4 hours or less, you’d be hard pressed not to choose Sd, Ivan, or Diagnose Dan to save your life….and if I’m no where near a shop, IVAN is gonna save my life….probably no parts required even. This man is one of the best. If not the best.
most likely the sunroof drains are clogged, those should be checked and cleaned from debris from time to time.
Another case of needless complexity strikes again. Love the simplicity of the fix, great video as always.
Then look at some of the "will it start" videos of old cars. All the electrical you needed was power to the starter and to the coil. Yes, I love my modern car with its A/C and great radio and power this and that, but, REALLY, BMW??
Good to see that you were able to finally make you way to the cause of the problem.
I was just about ready to throw in the towel but then saw a faint wisp of smoke coming from the battery area after leaving the test light powering up that line for a while haha
Ivan!! Why are you so perfect? I have such a man crush 🤣😂.
I have watched countless videos you’ve produced. I have found myself impressed by everyone! Then I hear you speaking Russian!
May you continue to be blessed with success! Thank you for teaching us viewers so much!
"The sunroof works. That's promising!". With a broken BMW, you take what you can get :-)
I always wondered why you have a russian name and look russian, now it's confirmed.
I am learning alot from you.
Thanks for dedicating your time to making these videos.
Did you drill a drain hole or install a bilge pump?
I like how they put the battery and all those expensive electronics in a nice safe bucket where the water can collect
I already got the Thinktool Pros at that price and I am delighted you use it so much. Advanced Level Auto too. I'd like seeing more of the "programming" jobs it can handle. Thank you Ivan for so much GREAT content over the years.
Pine Hollow/Ivan, you rock!
UPDATE 12-13-21: after listening better I noticed DCM, TCM, etc mentioned... now can follow better.
None of the modules ACRONYMS you mentions are in my GM/Chevrolet dictionary(compiled by me, lol) which speaks in ECM,BCM,TCM, etc...
So I am struggling trying to follow the logic.
...thru your videos, it has become clear to me that the scanners are of great help, but having schematics and the logic behind all the circuitry is very much critical.
My toy (Express 4500) also got annihilated by water due to super sloppy fleet maintenance, that left all distribution blocks without cover, wide open to the elements, + water leaks that were created by added equipment installations.
I am getting the 1B+,16can, and 6can on my new breakout box and a slew of nocom with all the modules except the ECM... and a million errors that make no sense... and I suspect the nocom to the BCM/ECM has a lot to do with my click/IPC blackout?! noengineturn/nocrank situation... and this thing was cranking like a purrin' kitten for the longest time.
The mechs also left dozens of stripped wires dangling all over the place, especially in the upfitter's T-Harness side where 2 extra distribution blocks live... could it be one of the circuits that limit cranking if handicap ramp or bus doors are not stowed is all the issue? ...what a clusterphck! I have to go thru the same steps you describe in a foreign language of ACRONYMS. LOL I am in pain.
Actually, you will need that battery sensor replaced eventually as it will show a battery drain message on the HUD and the charging system won't work properly. But good catch. Those battery sensors are a common problem on BMW's.
Nice work! I would recommend all my friends to take their vehicle to you for diagnostics. You're a great example.
Good diagnosis skills
The sunroof probably drains very close to that side. It would make sure the line is connected and not plug!
I could spend a two week vacation at your place and Eric O’s just observing their diagnostic skills and lean more than I have in the last ten years. Then when you get electrical problem fixed you’ll have to find and repair the water leak.
This happened to my phone once, i put it in a bag of rice for a few hours! Maybe try keeping a big bag of rice around for next time? Lol... I am obviously joking people! Great job as always Ivan! Im a little late to the party but just wanted to commend you on another great diagnosis!
Brilliant :-D, I like the precision pull up resistor lol.
Sometimes you have to try dirty tricks.
I've done some evil things with electronics, but i got the result i wanted :-D
The line between Bodge and Pro Modification can be very difficult to see.
I keep thinking the RAP is involved in 'the troubleshooting I mean, not' the issue.
Well done... a pleasure to watch this!
I like this tool, it is sized right... and presents data in a comfortable way. especially for less than $1K... but if it does not allow reprogramming of used or new modules... the savings in cost will quickly be wiped out.
Sideways rain partially filled my Promaster's front and back plastic lights boxes, break and turn signal light went out, some socket corrosion. Will drill some drain holes in the bottom of all 4 light boxes (inside the vehicle body) to allow the thing to drain if it happens again.
I think you should buy this car Ivan.Just so you can play with it ,in your spare time .lol
NOOOOOOOOOO! 🤣
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics LoL 🤣😆
BMW: Buying Many Woes
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Вот насмешил! Упаси бог!
Amazing Diag. Congrats.
Please do a follow up on the “why” a battery sensor caused this. Also why that sensor is even used. And what could happen without it??? I’ve seen them missing,bypassed and reengineered without a customer complaint. Again, let us know the BMW nonsense behind this sensor. Keep your videos coming👍👍
Very nice sharing
I truly did learn some new tricks today! I am sure they will help me in the future ! I am truly greatful for the videos Ivan!! Have a great day!
30:30 NOW he reveals there was an electrical smell.
As a DIY'er myself, been enjoying your diagnostic videos, with multiple puzzling faults/stuff not working throughout a vehicle, I'm finding there comes a point in your investigation where you say ... this is the fault here on this wire/feed/module .... and once you say that, the whole thing becomes obvious.
Never knew (had no reason to) there was a BMW module to detect a battery was present (like the 12V isn't a big hint anyway), seems to me you need a gigantic checklist to work through of 'Things That Must Work For This Car To Run'
That car needs to be cleaned. Nice job diagnosing.
If you'd known more specifics about BMW's you'd have this diagnosed in 5 minutes. the CAS wake up line fault gave it all away. If the wake up is missing no modules will communicate on PT-CAN like DME, DSC, transmission control. This car has got the old Intelligent Battery Sensor design with a metal body. On the newer cars and on the replacement part for that IBS the whole body of the sensor is moulded plastic to prevent water intrusion. Very very common issue this ;)
It was a good learning experience :) I'm not a BMW specialist, but enjoy a good challenge haha
Get down Ivan 👍 good idea using the different bulb draws.
Aussie guy here ;) Ah Ivan you've done it again great work my friend and thanks for posting..
Hello to Australia! Say "no" to lockdowns!
Wow! Ivan you fixed this drenched mess in 3 hours. For me that would have been 3 years give or take a millennium. It reminds me of a Diagnose Dan that found a defective BMW passenger door latch that kept the whole car from starting. I think to fix these vehicles one has to Be More Wise (or in your case extremely patient).
I remember that video where Dan found out it was a door latch, or maybe I am thinking of the car that would not start because of a shorted out mirror? Either way, these cars are getting way to complex!
@@unclemarksdiyauto There was one with a shorted out mirror too? That is also insane! Like you say these cars are way too complex. I still think deleting the transmission dipstick was a step over the line for auto manufacturing. Deleting the simple for the complex is so bizarre.
@@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176 Many without the dipstick are very complex even for the dealer to check. My 2013 F150 has a dipstick on the transmission but it is about 4 inches long. There is a $200 kit in the aftermarket world to covert it to a normal stick, but $200?
@@unclemarksdiyauto That is insane! To make a $10 dipstick into a aftermarket add on for $200 is an absolute obscenity! I used to think the Ford F series truck was a pickup done right. Still do but with reservations. That is an idea gone crazy Mark! I guess it is better than the BMW's without an engine dipstick.
@@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176 Wow, I didn’t realize the new BMWs don’t have a engine dip stick! Crazy. I guess they figure you will trade it just before the next oil change just to be safe?
First time I heard you speak Russian! Awesome. And I understand you well.
Another awesome job and video thank you!
BMW with 50 codes
We call this a Monday .
You are never rich enough to own a used BMW , MB etc.
Look at that beautiful angle you can see the screen perfectly boy you are getting amazing! All the best in Canada
It's always hard on a sunny day...
Awesome job! I still own a Diesel E60 here in the UK and I've had previous with that sensor before. It's clever how it works but overcomplicates things bearing in mind most of these cars have standard flooded lead acid batteries! I hope you both toast victory with some Russian vodka 😁
You're such a magician! Such surprises every time! Thanks for the great content!
if BMW put the fuse box in the driver footwell thats the only spot water enters, if they put it on the passenger side footwell it only leaks there. Even in the back thats the only place water leaks in!
Volkswagon put the ecu under the carpet in the passenger footwell, then disclaimed responsibility for flooding issues
Good find and great diag!
Well done, great fix.
Good one! Thx! Pays to try and keep it simple.
OMG a BMW and Water!!! Junkyard will not even take it...you will need to fixit Ivan!
That was great Good job.
You are very....VERY,,,GOOD !!
I was gonna say, hook it up to ignition for temporary signal ;) nice find
The code was not listed in the service info... as expected ! YA, THERE'S A F'KING SURPRISE !
They always got everything but what you are looking for
The back area fills up because the sunroof drains get clogged and the water has to go somewhere. It happened to my MB MLxxx - somewhere between 11 and 14 gallons were drained out and insurance paid for a total loss from all the electronics in the back and under the passenger compartments carpets being soaked during a heavy rainstorm, a few days after a dealer maintenance service visit.
One would hope the insurers would then claw it back from the maintainer. It incentivises them to get their shit together
@@miscbits6399 In looking at the itemized service reports, blowing out the drain lines on the MBs with sun roofs is not on the list of service items. If they had done it, it would have been an itemized charge of over $150. I blame MB for designing a crappy, inadequate drain system and not instructing dealers on proper maintenance intervals and procedures. From my service adviser, I gathered it was a common problem in my area - only one customer of that dealership had ever insisted on having his insurance company pay to have his vehicle completely repaired by fixing the drainage lines and replacing everything that was water damaged, well over $40,000 worth of parts and labor on a vehicle with an MSRP of over $65,000, and more for more expensive models. I now drive my old Ford F150, which never leaks or breaks down.
This reminds me of Diagnose Dan's "No start because of doorhandle!" BMWs are as fragile as 1mm thick glass windows.
I just remembered the same diagnose Dan episode too. I think Break My Wallet is a good moniker for the car.
Wow, that was really weird diagnosis!! That's why i don't like BMW lol!! To many modules especially in the rust belt! They fail a lot! But glad there was outcome of the problem, battery sensor!!!
Ivan that was amazing! Well done. I enjoyed this case study.
That's the scary part with water incursion. It'll work fine and then oxidation will recur and the issue will be back. The only way to guarantee a fix to take apart that box and use deox it and a brass brush.
Badass diag and repair sir. Thanks Ivan!
First thing I was going to say was the IBS shorted out. Disconnect the blue connector on it and try starting it. They short out somehow in the rear fender sometimes or just go bad.
@@JayDee-b5u Usually it's the starter after that.
Dam your good. I sure wish I payed attention in school!!!!!!
Nice figuring that one out. When you had the car starting only with CEL on that made me laugh. I guess the moral of that is a BMW with out an illuminated CEL is really broken.
Great job Ivan . well don
Very Nice.
Never Forget. I remember seeing the smoke from the Pentagon from work
The airplane no one ever seen... Yeah ok
Aw crap! We’re getting infected with the loonies.
I realize you all like to keep your wounds open and stinging, but is there anywhere left to avoid these reminders and the inevitable loonies?
And they found the 'arab' passports in the smoldering wreckage...and 2 planes brought down 3 buildings in NYC...and....blah blah blah....now we got the "patriot act"...and even later we got the covid 'vaccine' mandate...yeah sure.
@@aday1637 WTC 7: Pull it.
Very Cool thank u sir👍
Hello ! Personally I don't recomend to go without IBS a very long time. Need to replace it. Try to find piece on FCP Euro. Lack of IBS can make more trouble than you think. Thank you.
Eric O. to the battery sensor - What do you want me to lady, chop it off? Lol
Yes the BMW! The Ultimate Driving machine! But won't work on a Battery sensor bad? What were they thinking? Great video!
Niceeee job Ivan your a Monster👍
My BMW did the same thing, but nothing was wet. The fuel pump control module burnt out and shorted out the fuel pump as well. And The Control module was pulling down the wake up wire to 0v and it was on every module. It took me 4 hours to diagnose, I knew it had to do with something with the power Feed. Last year I replaced the battery and I noticed the sensor for the battery was unhooked I thought it was bad and it was I replaced the sensor as well. No more problems for now lol.
Another great video.
IBS SENSOR CABLE, BLUE DOT PLUG. Price 138.00, or just unplug it, car starts, runs fine. My second one just went bad, not buying another one. 2007 BMW 328 XI.
The sun roof may still work but the sun roof is probably why it got rain in back, worst invention ever is sun roof
most likely the drains are clogged
Sunroofs and skylights, both leaking useless holes above ones head.
Bavarian Manure Wagon.
LMAO
LOL on the way to the junkyard... 5 years later still fixing it. as long as it starts and drives its not heading to any junkyard lol... bigger question is did he fix the leak so it all doesnt get wet again. good job especially staying away from chasing corrosion issues
before watching i make pre determinations here based on experiences. I thought BMW (JWN junk when new) just from the title for some reason! I say drains and corrosion, Kcan dead - look for water edge of floorboards, front cowl and trunk, , isolate the modules til CAN is up, and done! then check and open all drains -benz care auto
Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) The Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) automatically controls braking and engine torque in conjunction with systems such as ABS and TCS to help control side slip when driving on slippery surfaces, or during sudden or evasive maneuvering, enhancing vehicle safety.
Nice information, blessings.
very good
KOMBI is German for an estate car.
Greetings from Ireland!!
Wouldn't isolating the battery sensor effect the charging system (if its a computer controlled charging system)? Good video Ivan.
It just measures the current. Will not affect.
Great job
Does it rain in Germany? I had an otherwise great Jetta years ago that leaked like a sieve. Convinced me to move the family entirely to Toyota. Never looked back.
Likewise we are totally Toyota or Honda would never go back to anything else.
Exelente gracias
I can ordinarily keep up and follow along with a clear understanding of what is going on, but after watching this one a couple of times the only thing I'm sure I understand is that I don't understand German automotive electronic engineering, but nice work Ivan
The lack of good information plus the over-complicated wiring and logic make Euro diagnostics a special experience haha
I've seen enough German engines torn down on I Do Cars' channel to know that they do everything in the most complicated way possible.
The Hindenburg collides with the Statue of Liberty and crushes the Titanic:
- Ivan: "Now this is _really_ cool!"
I hear junkyard bells ringing. Lol!!!
I knew you speak Russian! This is the only video that proves it, I've been wondering for a while lol
I understand most of it. Awesome work. I know, this video is 2 years old now. Haha
Потрясающе! Bravo!
Diagnostics of control wiring systems is, indeed, satisfying when issues are identified and corrected. Sort of like playing chess and winning. I made a living diagnosing wiring controls when they failed. Not very often, but on occasion, I found that rewiring to my own design was more expedient than troubleshooting 'their' design. Sometimes I would leave a note about my changes in a conspicuous place...other times not, depending on whether I wanted to be called back for the next failure. Once changes are made, but not noted, it's rare to find another diagnostician who can adequately troubleshoot and repair an intricate system. Sort of like job security if you will. Of course, that was never my goal...but rather to get the customer's equipment up and running for the least amount of time and money. I also believe the purpose of over-complicating systems on devices, including cars, is to provide job security for the manufacturers agents or dealers.
Great comment ;)
So ... a BMW can run just fine with 1/2 of its sensors and fancy electronics disconnected? Got it.
... kinda sorta
Great job boss please let me know wich wiring diagram you can use boss
Wow! Great diagnostics, Ivan! On some cars, there's just not enough chickenblood and virgins to sacrifice and make it work.
It's an easy fix. Take car to a gravel pit. Distribute a low velocity explosive like ammonium nitrate evenly over the floor and seats about three inches thick. Pour in about thirty gallons of diesel fuel. Next make a BMW logo out of det cord right in the middle of the car. Install a quality blasting cap to the cord. Spool out the wires from the cap to a bunker about one hundred meters away. Attach wires to blasting machine and yell "fire in the hole!" three times. Close the switch. So satisfying!
Awesome 👍