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A full race-alignment on the Swift would have been sticking to the "Cash vs. Trash" theme as the cash outlay for extra adjustability is exactly why you would spend more.
Agreed. Setting them up the same hampered the swift. Depends what the experiment was... If it was purely cash Vs trash, then telling the guys to set the swift as best as possible for the track, would have been truest (while getting Marty to do a string and chalk alignment), but if it was about whether money buys bolt on performance then it was fairest the way it was done.
something you didn't mention in the cost breakdown, where I think a large portion of the swift budget went to, is safety. the cage, the seats, the race gear etc. if you were to roll it on one of those corners you're walking away in much better mood than you would after a few flips in the peugeot. enjoyed the series guys! keep up the good work
This video shows that weight reduction can really make a difference since both car were suspension tuned to be almost alike. Also I think that Moog should’ve done a proper suspension adjustment and not trying to match Marty because that’s the whole purpose of buying a higher end suspension. But it helped show that weight is a factor worth considering.
Its not just more adjustment, it's the compliancy of bound/rebound. He was running low/mid set anyway which gave limited adjustment advancement to ebay specials. Cars without alot of power, weight and balance is what makes the difference.
the swift on paper was the better car more expensive = more better even if the settings are the same in one department . remember its not the same car its a new car vs an old one
He did do a proper suspension adjustment. Just because they made both cars the "same" doesnt mean its any worse, it just means the handling manners are similar. beyond the basic principles of a track alignment its all down to tweaking to driver preferences and track conditions, i dont think theyre going to hire an alignment guy to come to the track for this video🤣 Its not like the swift has more to be adjusted outside of damping, both cars only have coilovers, the swifts are just better. they havent done anything extra to adjust with the swift suspension meaningfully yet.
@@GeneralNOH I didn’t say they did a bad adjustment. What I’m saying is to do an adjustment proper to the car in question without trying to match the other car. Use the suspension to its full potential and not handicap it to “be fair”. To begin with both cars are different regarding weight, probably also weight distribution and suspension geometry. If you buy a more expensive suspension it’s because you want the ability to fine tune it to the car so it behaves closer to how you want. This “match tuning” basically negates the purpose of buying that suspension and for us to know if a more expensive suspension is actually worth buying, which is supposed to be the purpose of this series. There’s already enough handicaps given for the competition to be fair, both cars have the same tires and Moogs car has extra weight, there’s no need for more balancing.
I feel like some brake upgrades for both cars could have been a great addition even if just some higher performance pads and fluid. Marty clearly needed them especially.
People sleep on the french hatches dude!! They've made some of the BEST and they still don't get the recognition they deserve. I've had a 106gti, 172 clio cup, 220 clio trophy and I'm now in a Megane RS Trophy. For driving, you can't fault them.
Great series. I think for budget buyers, the 180hp version of the 206 with some good tyres would give better performance for buck than tuning a swift up to match (or a Clio RS II/III). Also the torsion beam probably isn't going to be a limitation when you consider the Megane Trophy R is still torsion beam.
People don't realise that FWD hot hatches have roughly 2/3 of the weight on the front and 1/3 on the rear, so the first thing you need to make it handle well mid corner is to keep two wheels on the ground in the front (2/3 of the weight taken care of) and one wheel on the ground in the back (remaining 1/3 of the weight taken care of, one wheel per one 1/3 of the weight). The grip between front and rear axle is balanced that way. You can laugh about tripodding but it's how you allow the rear to rotate around the front, thus making the car less understeery. Torsion beam rear suspension is perfect for doing that. My friend decided to build a rally NC MX-5, he said that superior weight distribution, suspension and drivetrain will give him an advantage over those french hatches in 2000 class, over a year (and a lot of $$) later, he's right in the middle of the pack between those Peugeots and Renaults he "has an advantage" over 😅
@@shaggings I know the term "rally" is associated with gravel, but rallies in my country are mostly held on tarmac country/rural roads, so looking at a plain data sheet of the MX-5 and comparing it to a 206 or a Clio my friend's assumption should be correct, MX-5 should be the superior handling car. But somehow it's not. I mean, you can't fault the MX-5 here, my friend is not the only person in a technically superior car getting stomped by a french hot hatch, there's a guy in my country with a Megane II RS that wins pretty much every time attack he enters (and he's competing against 400-500HP Evos, STIs, BMWs etc), so it's not just a rally specific thing. If french cars do something right it's definitely the handling.
The peugeot has a complete different torsion beam than what you’ve got in mind. The actual spring is a torsion beam.. A megane has the traditional torsion beam with coil springs.
It depends. The 206 may have some electrical gremlins and suspension issues but one thing that is often underastimated on them is the TU5JP4 1.6 16v engine. That engine is not only very durable (way more than the 8v variant for sure) but it has some really good power (110hp).
@@Rickanroc yeah you can easily get 150 out of that engine,over that it becomes quite a lot more expensive but it is really a great engine to start with.
Great little series, but I'm honestly surprised that proper high temp brake fluid and track pads were not used. That would have not only improved performance and lap times, but is also a huge safety aspect that should not be ignored.
I love the fact that this episode is out while Peugeot is currently leading the LeMans 24 Hours Race! IDK if they actually win of course, there's a couple of hours left, but I thought I would write it as a comment for posterity!
that "knowing that for these 24 seconds we were free" was so lowkey, i loved it ^^ I think it would be interesting if you both drove both car to say which one is actually more pleasant as a track car ? The confortable one with the good equipment, or the rough brutal one ? I've never tried a proper bucket seat, helmet etc. but i tend to like gutted cars for the raw feel they give, which one is the most fun ?
That was totally expected, considering that Suzuki basically gets only few real performance update like wheels and tire, but the rest there were just cosmetic or safety updates, I know it got a better suspension, but in order to make a "fair" competition, they didn't use all the benefits of a better suspension, so basically the suspension didn't do anything, and also, the biggest factor was the weight reduction, basically Swift got fatter and Peugeot Bro got lighter and that, in the world of small engine, that's the biggest factor between winning or losing, I love this series, it really was a good form to know about, expending a lot of cash doesn't mean you will always get better result
The suspension episode was so strange because until then they were saying money wasn't a factor, but then they went out and still got a pretty shit suspension for the swift.
Neither car got driven at 10/10ths so your "That was totally expected" is bit premature don't you think. Get someone with balls to drive the cars, not these two skirts and you'll find both cars where a waste of time and money.
Loved this series, good reminder to spend wisely. Was hoping to see an episode for swaybars, end links, subframe braces etc. JDM fwd street cars dramatically improve handling with these upgrades. Marty could have welded up a scrap bin special subframe brace 🗿 One for the next season perhap?!
Speed cost money how fast do you want to go is always true. But ultimately is the faster car "more fun"? I think being able to have fun in a car at any price tag is more important. It builds skills that when you push to that next level car that will help you be a better driver on the street and on the track.
In reality an approach somewhere in between cash and trash is going to net you the best performance for your money depending on what components you're looking at. This has been a fun series, top work as always guys.
Thanks guys, it's been an entertaining series. Less weight is important on a twisty track seems to be a solid takeaway from this. Oh, and stock brake pads and fluid will probably be a limiting factor that reduces your time on track.
Less weight is important everywhere. You could argue it's less important in a straight line... but somebody, somewhere will argue back and probably make valid points 🤣
This is the best content from MCM outside of the long films. I love the super-budget builds that are an homage to your work from early years, but with access to high quality tracks and equipment. Great work as always.
As a Subaru and Peugeot owner I knew the result since the start. Peugeots are so underrated or even hated in petrolheads world, so nobody really know how good they are. Just out of the box it was faster than Swift, but with proper mods it could be way faster.
I think that comparison wasn't fair. Suzuki got a lot of expensive parts that didn't contribute to making it faster and Peugebro got the best thing for a cheap track car possible which is lightness and for some reason expensive tires (I think tires should be some new economy tires - good brand but cheap to compare them witch expensive ones). But this series was super fun to watch and I hope there will be more seasons!
I took my RSX type S/DC5 Integra to the track last weekend. Mods: bucket seat with rails, Momo steering wheel with quick release, cat back exhaust, big brake kit(brembos), high temp brake fluid, race pads, stainless lines, bigger rear sway bar, sub frame brace and 200TW tires.The car is on A spec factory suspension (1 inch lower than regular RSX) man I had so much fun, was amazing and I am glad I did the mods in this order
I do not understand why Moog didn't take full advantage of his expensive suspension when doing the alignment. Of course you should take full advantage, you bought expensive coilovers with more features?
Thanks for including th Pug! You are the only major car channel I've seen one, or any french cars on, since they really aren't appreciated. The masses expect that you bash them. German and Japan only gets so boring after a while, so many great cars out there if you allow yourself to meet them.
I wonder if Marty will keep the Peugeot, and give it some additional service, stronger brakes, and some additional power adders...I think he was thrilled with what he accomplished, and how he did it.
Wouldn't bother. If he was actually keen on keeping a Peugeot ( doubt it ), you'd buy a GTI or GTI180 minimum. There was a red 206 GTI going for 4k when this series came about.
@@Kristoph109 and how many bigger engines or forced induction have they done to Daihatsu's...? Would be cool to see them go that route with the Peugeot, because it's so different where they are.
Maybe if it didn't have whatever problem is with the engine to make the light come on and the breaks failing. It's a turd, and not a good kind of one so the decision to put more money into it just to make it functioning would have to be rationalized through love, and I don't know if there's much love being felt for that thing haha
Weight and tires will makes huge gains on lower power cars everyone wants high hp numbers for the flex but better handling and grip has the pay-off way higher good series enjoyed this hopefully inspires a few to get on the track in whatever they can get there and can't put a price on the smile you'll have after
Very nice series, great idea. I'd really like to see it with different (affordable) cars but then see the same things done to both cars, i.e. not reducing weight in one, adding some in the other. And both should get proper tuneups after installing intake, exhaust, etc. Maybe also compare stock vs standalone ecu or something. Apart form that, keep it up!
I knew it. I commented in the last video. You can rip in an absolute nugget with only upgraded tires, suspension, and weight reduction. I know because I've done it. I would argue that it might be more practical to rip out the interior because it gives you more space to fit larger items, as I did with mine. Only downside is the road noise at anything over 30 mph is immense, so you will get tinnitus as an added "bonus".
Great little series guys. These type of head to head builds are fantastic and so enjoyable. Look forward to seeing the Swift get it's next batch of mods, brilliant little things :). That 206 did itself more than proud!, You need to give it a good send off :)
One important takeaway for me was that if you plan to track your daily, flush out the old DOT3 brake fluid and replace with DOT4. Relatively cheap and easy but should reduce the likelihood of losing brakes at the worst possible moment. A coolant flush probably would be worth it as well... maybe install an oil cooler and if it's an auto an aftermarket trans fluid cooler.
So mean to the Peuge Bro, I loved my old 206 GTI 180, that lift off oversteer, fitting my triathlon bike in the back without taking off the wheels, was such a nice and fun little car
Thoroughly enjoyed the video! While the Swift lost (by a tiny margin), it is also set up better for future modding. Very cool series and interesting result!
It's worth mentioning that the 206 doesn't have door cards and carpet which in Australia makes it illegal to drive on the road so it technically can't be driven to the track as you stated at the start
Would be interested to see if a proper suspension setup on the Swift had an impact - by matching setup this test kinda negated the spend. But right now you could set it to maximum potential and get another time and it would be an interesting bit of data for a budget build. As for the puegbro, sell it to someone who does love those little nuggets and check back in from time to time :)
How did it negate the spend? You buy better coilovers for better damping features, preload and height adjustment. not alignment. This is the logic of someone who hasnt actually fitted coilovers or aligned a car and has NFI what theyre talking about. They havent gone wild on adjustable arms or anything so theyre still pretty much limited to basic toe adjustment on the swift. They could run more agressive alignement on the pegeot for 0 extra cost so this is a dumb argument, you may as well make them the same. Going for crazier alignments requires better driving too, you trade off driveability.
@@GeneralNOHthe coils and alignment go hand in hand for a few reasons but the caster, camber, and toe settings are affected by the ride height of the car during various stages of suspension travel, so taking that into account during the alignment can get you an edge. Also, adding the drivers weight in the seat during the alignment assures you have the most accurate alignment possible. But the biggest difference is with coil overs, you can do proper corner balancing on the car and that can add seconds to a lap time with a proper car and a decent driver. And as you change the alignment, the corner balance gets thrown off by a significant amount. The coils allow you to do the fine adjustments to get the alignment and the corner balance right on. I used to work in a performance shop building spec Miata’s and did a ton of alignment work on the cars
Judging from Marty n Moogs reactions to the changes in their cars. Seats + Tires seem to be the biggest bang for the buck in track-day performance. Which makes sense, they are what control the two biggest variables. Adhesion to the road, and confidence from the driver.
Marty's Peugebro weight reduction was likely the biggest gain. Weight, tires and suspension makes the greatest difference around a track. Moog will win in the long run though. A good platform for further modding
The Peugeot has a lot more left in it, even on a budget build but you’d need to spend more time on forums and hunting parts. Peugeots are like Lego, a lot of parts from bigger cars will fit. A shorter diff is an easy swap, etc…
I think the cage held back the swift but I know it was necessary for the bride seats so it's forgivable. I don't see why the suspension was not set up to its full potential, I mean that's the whole point of spending the money although I'm not sure it would've affected the outcome. Good series, can't wait to see what happens with the swift.
I am sooooo happy the Peugeot won. Wasn't really a fair shake for either car from the start and I believe the Swift is probably the faster car, but the 206 was such an Underdog and it completely deserves this win. Viva La France! 🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷
Find a 3,0 V6 Peugeot front end, and stick it in the rear of the 206, center engine that are very tunable, fix the gearing with lower tires, and remove all flex bushings from the anti roll bar, making it stiffer, there's so much more to do, for little, or no money, what about side rails out of alu, for the seat, i like the challenge of no or little money, much better than just buying stuff. Build over bought, everyday.
I met these 2 legends in Paris. Nicest guys ever. Their empathy is second to none. They both signed my old moped. Now that moped has to live in my living room!!
Pads and fluids are like the #1 thing to do for a track day. I honestly consider it a safety thing. Some Motul 650 and stoptech sport pads are cheap and easy peace of mind for beginners.
I love the series but you wanted to see which is faster with upgrades but you didn’t use all the adjustability, instead matching the trash suspension. So what’s the point spending more you aren’t going to use it ?
As a former 206 GTi owner I am totally unbiased. That said, when Marty took 90kg out of the Peugeot, I thought that would make a difference! The 206 lift off oversteer compared with the Swifts resolute understeer makes the Peugeot more fun, and gives the driver more options.
Oof. Spending $25k on modding a Suzuki Swift and then getting chopped by the Pugebro... can't deny the style of those sick Bride seats though. Loved the series. Maybe do a cash vs trash on power adds next time?
I hadn't even considered the PeugBro taking this. Well done. Genuinely surprised. Quelle surprise!! Spend a minimal few more and flush the brake fluid with DOT 4. If I remember right, it's compatible with DOT 3 but higher boiling point. To all the PeugBros and other car enthusiasts, do not use DOT 5. Completely different racing stuff.
I called the Peugeot winning from the off!! 😂😂 Would have been an absolute cake walk if a better french hatch was chosen too, or even the 206 GTI... Great videos boys, absolutely loved them as per 👌
@@ferrumignis i just meant they got an absolutely bottom end french hatch as opposed to something more capable out the box from the french offerings... They could have got a 106 gti or saxo VTS which is still a 1.6 litre, 120ish bhp, similar in size etc and it would have SMOKED the swifty if the 206 did 😂
@@VersionOneUK They couldn't have got either of them since they were never imported into Australia. The 206 was the closest equivalent to the Swift they could find for reasonable money. This whole series has been a disappointing half assed mess tbh. Moog spent a bunch of money on mostly pointless crap, added weight and just threw on his new suspension with no setup. The engine tuning segment was an absolute joke.
Beyond safety, maintenance and engine cooling. Brakes(Pads and fluid), Tires, Seat + seat time will make the biggest difference and give you a good baseline as to where your money should go. There's a gentleman that I used to do Autocross with whom had a base model FB RX7 with a carbie 12A (113hp). His money went into tires, suspension, brakes and seats and he would always dominate to the point that even cars with double the power couldn't keep up. The only cars that could, were actual race-cars, but even then he'd only be slightly off their pace. Had he shoved a NA 13B from the later FC's (160hp), he'd have no problems keeping pace with them. Speaking of cheap, said gentleman had a fabrication class at the local Uni weld him up strut tower braces... His only cost was for materials, because those kinds of classes always need real-world projects.
I'm honestly in love with the Banana. I love the swift and am still hoping Suzuki comes back to the States. But im pleasantly surprised with the outcome. I want to see something to showcase what the puegbro is great at, and I would love to see the swift grow. Looking forward to the future episodes!
Excellent series, thankyou! Just seen a Swift Sport for sale down the road for £2400, never considered one as a cheap track car but now it looks like im going to have to convince the wife!
There's definitely something to be done with the Swift. Adding bracing, strutbars and polybushes, would really make for an ultra stif platform. Then obviously a brake upgrade, and power upgrades would take it even further. Imagine what a set if hot cams, better headers and a tune could do. And finally strip it
the 206 is such an underrated car, one of the best budget track hatchbacks to build these days, also stock they are tons of fun! had a 2.0 GTI and now have a 1.6 16V XS, superb little cars
So fun story. My wife and I were on a quick road trip to pick some stuff up a couple of hours away. We decide to grab lunch but it's Sunday in the south so options can be limited. So we go to Chili's... I know. But we "enjoying" our food when I hear, "you're the bullet, I'm the gun" loudly sung over the background music... I freaked out a little. My wife didn't get it. Great job moog.
That was amazing! I would definitely buy the Suzuki first and would not pour 18k into it or anything. The buy good tires and send it is really the best way to improve the biggest factor the driver's skill
Literally started the video, so happy to see a pug on the channel. I have both a 308 and borrowing my stepdads 407 while I try to fix the 308. I plan to do it up as a side project, but it might be due the scrappy
Tires are always the best thing to buy. Not only are they better for grip on the track but something like the michelin PS4/5 are great for daily use aswell. There performance in the wet if amazing. Brakes are a big deal to of course. Depending on your car you might be able to get brakes off a similar OE car. Like putting GTR or Evo brakes onto different cars like people do.
Great to see you using a genuine race seat. If it happens again, come to us. You will understand why we build the best and supply most of the OEM race teams.
You can't drive at the grip limit of really good tires without some kind of decent baffles in the oil pan, especially with transverse cars. You're just oil starving the engine on and off constantly or if it's a big and fast enough sweeper for a long time. An oil/air separator is also a good safety item.
Awesome vid, the seat problem is a easy repair, the system that a allows the seat to move forward for someone to climb in is the problem just remove the little cable underneath that is connected to the side lever.
Peugeot rocks 🎉 Got one 3doors 206 1.1litres because there are no any living 1.4 or 1.6 in my city… there is not so much difference between 1.1 and 1.4 litre engines, but there IS a difference between 1.1 and 1.6) but with our traffic jams there is no difference. Main thing the A/c is working, the car in MINT condition, and got only 65000km and there is much potential in there to go 🎉 have a good roads everyone)
I think, at the end of the day...a good seat, good tires (wheels if needed) and slightly upgraded brakes/fluid would be all you need. Unbolt your rear seats and spare, etc. when you actually hit the track - but that's really all you'd need to bump the performance enough to have fun. I think some of the other stuff is definitely "too much" at this level of car unless you're planning to go full-nuts on it.
Let's go Peugbro!! I told you weeks before the Peugeot would trash the Suzuki trash. You guys should definitly keep the car. Do what you did with the Subaru and make it into an RC with the 2.0L engine and the suspension from that car. I would really love to see that!
Actually Moog, for me, UA-cam inserted an ad exactly before you said what your total money spent was😆 this was an interesting challenge and build series. I like certain cars that have an enthusiast following, but aren't very popular with the masses. It's nice to drive places and you have the only make and model car there.
FYI, brake fluid don’t boil, what happen is that old fluid will absorb water since it’s an hygroscopic fluid and then, the water contained within the fluid will evaporate creating pockets of vapor which is more compressible than brake fluid hence reducing the pascal going into the brakes.
Well done to the peugbro. Marty paid 3k for it but if you buy them where anywhere(country) around france you can easily find them for under 1000. Shouldnt be that difficult to get some extra power as well
Reminds me video what I just seen recently on Facebook where the guy was driving Aston Martin and he couldn't shake off from little 206 😅... Peugeots are absolutely brilliant cars for the money. Even if something goes wrong it's really cheap to fix / replace. So nice one little Peugeot 😃👍
Marty giving in far too early. Get rid of all the glass apart from windscreen. Trim more metal out. Better brakes v6 coupe and better cooling. Get a mapped ecu and stiffer from anti roll bar. Swirl pot for fuel and the pug will be loads more fun. Can do all on the cheap. Would show how much money moog is spending for little more. performance.
206 to this day competes in the motorsport category, it is a beautiful car that has an incredible factory setup, something that I don't think Peugeot does anymore at the moment, 206 is a great car without a doubt
![Peugeot 206 против Suzuki Swift. ФИНАЛЬНАЯ БИТВА! [BMIRussian]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w9XFZ3XlSY8/mqdefault.jpg)
We hope you enjoyed this series as much as we enjoyed making it. What did you think of the result?
We have a small number of FAT MATs left. You can grab one here mightycarmods.com/collections/accessories/products/fat-mat
This was an amazing series boys! really loved it!
LOVED watching this!!
Please do more of these challenge type videos
its 4am Sunday morning - wheres the kebab?
Given me inspiration for my swift. Loved the series, want to see more
Would of been nice to see a brake upgrade in this series! but it was worth the watch.
A full race-alignment on the Swift would have been sticking to the "Cash vs. Trash" theme as the cash outlay for extra adjustability is exactly why you would spend more.
Completely agree, would have been significantly different.
and what about better brake fluid and better pads?
Agreed. Setting them up the same hampered the swift. Depends what the experiment was... If it was purely cash Vs trash, then telling the guys to set the swift as best as possible for the track, would have been truest (while getting Marty to do a string and chalk alignment), but if it was about whether money buys bolt on performance then it was fairest the way it was done.
Suzuki fan & lovers crying hahaha
What would you have adjusted?
something you didn't mention in the cost breakdown, where I think a large portion of the swift budget went to, is safety.
the cage, the seats, the race gear etc. if you were to roll it on one of those corners you're walking away in much better mood than you would after a few flips in the peugeot.
enjoyed the series guys! keep up the good work
THIS ❤
If the peugeot kills you in the process its a win-win
@@tadassmolskas3014 That's a real Peug-bro move
Pug had 4 stars for safety 😅
@@tadassmolskas3014 the best outcome you can expect from a french car
This video shows that weight reduction can really make a difference since both car were suspension tuned to be almost alike. Also I think that Moog should’ve done a proper suspension adjustment and not trying to match Marty because that’s the whole purpose of buying a higher end suspension. But it helped show that weight is a factor worth considering.
Its not just more adjustment, it's the compliancy of bound/rebound. He was running low/mid set anyway which gave limited adjustment advancement to ebay specials. Cars without alot of power, weight and balance is what makes the difference.
Swift didn't look as stable.
the swift on paper was the better car more expensive = more better even if the settings are the same in one department . remember its not the same car its a new car vs an old one
He did do a proper suspension adjustment. Just because they made both cars the "same" doesnt mean its any worse, it just means the handling manners are similar.
beyond the basic principles of a track alignment its all down to tweaking to driver preferences and track conditions, i dont think theyre going to hire an alignment guy to come to the track for this video🤣
Its not like the swift has more to be adjusted outside of damping, both cars only have coilovers, the swifts are just better. they havent done anything extra to adjust with the swift suspension meaningfully yet.
@@GeneralNOH I didn’t say they did a bad adjustment. What I’m saying is to do an adjustment proper to the car in question without trying to match the other car. Use the suspension to its full potential and not handicap it to “be fair”. To begin with both cars are different regarding weight, probably also weight distribution and suspension geometry. If you buy a more expensive suspension it’s because you want the ability to fine tune it to the car so it behaves closer to how you want. This “match tuning” basically negates the purpose of buying that suspension and for us to know if a more expensive suspension is actually worth buying, which is supposed to be the purpose of this series. There’s already enough handicaps given for the competition to be fair, both cars have the same tires and Moogs car has extra weight, there’s no need for more balancing.
I feel like some brake upgrades for both cars could have been a great addition even if just some higher performance pads and fluid. Marty clearly needed them especially.
Was always rooting for the 206, had one as a first car, so it's always got a place in my heart.
I had 307, 407 and a 508…I love the french weirdness😂❤
I was hoping they would continue upgrading the Peugeobro
Me too. I was quite happy how it all turned out
People sleep on the french hatches dude!! They've made some of the BEST and they still don't get the recognition they deserve. I've had a 106gti, 172 clio cup, 220 clio trophy and I'm now in a Megane RS Trophy. For driving, you can't fault them.
@@VersionOneUK the Megane rs line got the fwd nurburgring record everytime it came out with a new model
Great series.
I think for budget buyers, the 180hp version of the 206 with some good tyres would give better performance for buck than tuning a swift up to match (or a Clio RS II/III).
Also the torsion beam probably isn't going to be a limitation when you consider the Megane Trophy R is still torsion beam.
People don't realise that FWD hot hatches have roughly 2/3 of the weight on the front and 1/3 on the rear, so the first thing you need to make it handle well mid corner is to keep two wheels on the ground in the front (2/3 of the weight taken care of) and one wheel on the ground in the back (remaining 1/3 of the weight taken care of, one wheel per one 1/3 of the weight). The grip between front and rear axle is balanced that way. You can laugh about tripodding but it's how you allow the rear to rotate around the front, thus making the car less understeery. Torsion beam rear suspension is perfect for doing that.
My friend decided to build a rally NC MX-5, he said that superior weight distribution, suspension and drivetrain will give him an advantage over those french hatches in 2000 class, over a year (and a lot of $$) later, he's right in the middle of the pack between those Peugeots and Renaults he "has an advantage" over 😅
@@arekb5951 FWD is superior to RWD in lower traction situations like Rally. And AWD doesn't even need to be mentioned.
@@shaggings I know the term "rally" is associated with gravel, but rallies in my country are mostly held on tarmac country/rural roads, so looking at a plain data sheet of the MX-5 and comparing it to a 206 or a Clio my friend's assumption should be correct, MX-5 should be the superior handling car. But somehow it's not.
I mean, you can't fault the MX-5 here, my friend is not the only person in a technically superior car getting stomped by a french hot hatch, there's a guy in my country with a Megane II RS that wins pretty much every time attack he enters (and he's competing against 400-500HP Evos, STIs, BMWs etc), so it's not just a rally specific thing. If french cars do something right it's definitely the handling.
I think the ESP is working against agrassive handling in the peugeot
The peugeot has a complete different torsion beam than what you’ve got in mind. The actual spring is a torsion beam..
A megane has the traditional torsion beam with coil springs.
I think stripping out the interior of Marty's car played a big part in the results.
It depends. The 206 may have some electrical gremlins and suspension issues but one thing that is often underastimated on them is the TU5JP4 1.6 16v engine.
That engine is not only very durable (way more than the 8v variant for sure) but it has some really good power (110hp).
@@Rickanroc yeah you can easily get 150 out of that engine,over that it becomes quite a lot more expensive but it is really a great engine to start with.
The 206 is just better
@@Rickanroc my RZR makes 110 hp and weigha 1200 lbs lol
Peugeot's interior was too clean to be stripped tbh
Great little series, but I'm honestly surprised that proper high temp brake fluid and track pads were not used. That would have not only improved performance and lap times, but is also a huge safety aspect that should not be ignored.
Fr, active safety (tires, brakes, suspensión) is better than passive safety (bucket seat, roll cage)
I love the fact that this episode is out while Peugeot is currently leading the LeMans 24 Hours Race! IDK if they actually win of course, there's a couple of hours left, but I thought I would write it as a comment for posterity!
Ferrari ftw bro!
@@GTiR23 yup!
I love how often MCM uploads. Keep up the good work Marty and Moog!
that "knowing that for these 24 seconds we were free" was so lowkey, i loved it ^^
I think it would be interesting if you both drove both car to say which one is actually more pleasant as a track car ? The confortable one with the good equipment, or the rough brutal one ? I've never tried a proper bucket seat, helmet etc. but i tend to like gutted cars for the raw feel they give, which one is the most fun ?
Moog looks like a Minion in that helmet and flo-yellow suit.
That was totally expected, considering that Suzuki basically gets only few real performance update like wheels and tire, but the rest there were just cosmetic or safety updates, I know it got a better suspension, but in order to make a "fair" competition, they didn't use all the benefits of a better suspension, so basically the suspension didn't do anything, and also, the biggest factor was the weight reduction, basically Swift got fatter and Peugeot Bro got lighter and that, in the world of small engine, that's the biggest factor between winning or losing, I love this series, it really was a good form to know about, expending a lot of cash doesn't mean you will always get better result
agreed
The suspension episode was so strange because until then they were saying money wasn't a factor, but then they went out and still got a pretty shit suspension for the swift.
Neither car got driven at 10/10ths so your "That was totally expected" is bit premature don't you think.
Get someone with balls to drive the cars, not these two skirts and you'll find both cars where a waste of time and money.
@@maisydaisy9970 I thought the same, I feel they were too careful with those budget ricer car
@@maisydaisy9970 get Fred from Clunie Garage to set a time in them. Someone who can maximize any package.💥
This series cash vs trash has been great 👍🏼 love it
Loved this series, good reminder to spend wisely. Was hoping to see an episode for swaybars, end links, subframe braces etc.
JDM fwd street cars dramatically improve handling with these upgrades. Marty could have welded up a scrap bin special subframe brace 🗿 One for the next season perhap?!
Speed cost money how fast do you want to go is always true. But ultimately is the faster car "more fun"? I think being able to have fun in a car at any price tag is more important. It builds skills that when you push to that next level car that will help you be a better driver on the street and on the track.
In reality an approach somewhere in between cash and trash is going to net you the best performance for your money depending on what components you're looking at.
This has been a fun series, top work as always guys.
Moog: “Not sure if I need the whole race suit thing!”
Had me laughing 😂😂
Thanks guys, it's been an entertaining series. Less weight is important on a twisty track seems to be a solid takeaway from this. Oh, and stock brake pads and fluid will probably be a limiting factor that reduces your time on track.
Less weight is important everywhere.
You could argue it's less important in a straight line... but somebody, somewhere will argue back and probably make valid points 🤣
@@starfox_wr-45e93 Ha, true that. Can't help feeling the Swift would have won on a more open track though. Or overheated earlier. 🙂
This is the best content from MCM outside of the long films. I love the super-budget builds that are an homage to your work from early years, but with access to high quality tracks and equipment. Great work as always.
As a Subaru and Peugeot owner I knew the result since the start. Peugeots are so underrated or even hated in petrolheads world, so nobody really know how good they are. Just out of the box it was faster than Swift, but with proper mods it could be way faster.
What Peugeot did you have?
@Space Cowboy you are right about that 💯
@@khajiit5556 1,6 308 2011
Is not even GTI
I think that comparison wasn't fair. Suzuki got a lot of expensive parts that didn't contribute to making it faster and Peugebro got the best thing for a cheap track car possible which is lightness and for some reason expensive tires (I think tires should be some new economy tires - good brand but cheap to compare them witch expensive ones). But this series was super fun to watch and I hope there will be more seasons!
I took my RSX type S/DC5 Integra to the track last weekend.
Mods: bucket seat with rails, Momo steering wheel with quick release, cat back exhaust, big brake kit(brembos), high temp brake fluid, race pads, stainless lines, bigger rear sway bar, sub frame brace and 200TW tires.The car is on A spec factory suspension (1 inch lower than regular RSX) man I had so much fun, was amazing and I am glad I did the mods in this order
I do not understand why Moog didn't take full advantage of his expensive suspension when doing the alignment. Of course you should take full advantage, you bought expensive coilovers with more features?
Hard and soft, that’s hit. The strut tops aren’t adjustable and the back is a beam.
He didn't really go with good coilovers tbh😕
Thanks for including th Pug! You are the only major car channel I've seen one, or any french cars on, since they really aren't appreciated. The masses expect that you bash them. German and Japan only gets so boring after a while, so many great cars out there if you allow yourself to meet them.
I wonder if Marty will keep the Peugeot, and give it some additional service, stronger brakes, and some additional power adders...I think he was thrilled with what he accomplished, and how he did it.
think about the other trash mods he did like exhaust...i think its going in the bin.
Wouldn't bother. If he was actually keen on keeping a Peugeot ( doubt it ), you'd buy a GTI or GTI180 minimum.
There was a red 206 GTI going for 4k when this series came about.
@@Kristoph109 and how many bigger engines or forced induction have they done to Daihatsu's...? Would be cool to see them go that route with the Peugeot, because it's so different where they are.
@@Kristoph1091.6i or 2.0i (non rc) have better tune options than the rc itself
Maybe if it didn't have whatever problem is with the engine to make the light come on and the breaks failing. It's a turd, and not a good kind of one so the decision to put more money into it just to make it functioning would have to be rationalized through love, and I don't know if there's much love being felt for that thing haha
Weight and tires will makes huge gains on lower power cars everyone wants high hp numbers for the flex but better handling and grip has the pay-off way higher good series enjoyed this hopefully inspires a few to get on the track in whatever they can get there and can't put a price on the smile you'll have after
Very nice series, great idea. I'd really like to see it with different (affordable) cars but then see the same things done to both cars, i.e. not reducing weight in one, adding some in the other. And both should get proper tuneups after installing intake, exhaust, etc. Maybe also compare stock vs standalone ecu or something. Apart form that, keep it up!
I knew it. I commented in the last video. You can rip in an absolute nugget with only upgraded tires, suspension, and weight reduction. I know because I've done it. I would argue that it might be more practical to rip out the interior because it gives you more space to fit larger items, as I did with mine. Only downside is the road noise at anything over 30 mph is immense, so you will get tinnitus as an added "bonus".
Well it’s about time Marty gets a win! Seems like Moog usually always does. Great series guys!
As a 206 owner , its not trash, its underrated gold
Great little series guys. These type of head to head builds are fantastic and so enjoyable. Look forward to seeing the Swift get it's next batch of mods, brilliant little things :). That 206 did itself more than proud!, You need to give it a good send off :)
One important takeaway for me was that if you plan to track your daily, flush out the old DOT3 brake fluid and replace with DOT4. Relatively cheap and easy but should reduce the likelihood of losing brakes at the worst possible moment.
A coolant flush probably would be worth it as well... maybe install an oil cooler and if it's an auto an aftermarket trans fluid cooler.
Please do something like this again
Off-road edition 👀
Yesssss Peugeot for the win, my dad’s little 206 was one of the major reasons I became a car enthusiast and I was rooting for her from the start. 🎉🎉🎉
Nice to see some Megane RS's on the track
So mean to the Peuge Bro, I loved my old 206 GTI 180, that lift off oversteer, fitting my triathlon bike in the back without taking off the wheels, was such a nice and fun little car
Thoroughly enjoyed the video! While the Swift lost (by a tiny margin), it is also set up better for future modding. Very cool series and interesting result!
Well done to the Peugbro ❤❤ A fantastic series from start to finish.
You're dropping this as we're up early morning watching LeMans lol wish I was there in person
“Knowing that for those 24 seconds we’re free”…lol!!! Starting off with painfully amusing truths from the very beginning. I love it
This has been my favourite series you guys have done for a while. Hope to see more like this! Also Let's Go Team PeugBro!
It's worth mentioning that the 206 doesn't have door cards and carpet which in Australia makes it illegal to drive on the road so it technically can't be driven to the track as you stated at the start
Would be interested to see if a proper suspension setup on the Swift had an impact - by matching setup this test kinda negated the spend. But right now you could set it to maximum potential and get another time and it would be an interesting bit of data for a budget build.
As for the puegbro, sell it to someone who does love those little nuggets and check back in from time to time :)
How did it negate the spend? You buy better coilovers for better damping features, preload and height adjustment. not alignment.
This is the logic of someone who hasnt actually fitted coilovers or aligned a car and has NFI what theyre talking about.
They havent gone wild on adjustable arms or anything so theyre still pretty much limited to basic toe adjustment on the swift. They could run more agressive alignement on the pegeot for 0 extra cost so this is a dumb argument, you may as well make them the same. Going for crazier alignments requires better driving too, you trade off driveability.
@@GeneralNOHthe coils and alignment go hand in hand for a few reasons but the caster, camber, and toe settings are affected by the ride height of the car during various stages of suspension travel, so taking that into account during the alignment can get you an edge. Also, adding the drivers weight in the seat during the alignment assures you have the most accurate alignment possible. But the biggest difference is with coil overs, you can do proper corner balancing on the car and that can add seconds to a lap time with a proper car and a decent driver. And as you change the alignment, the corner balance gets thrown off by a significant amount. The coils allow you to do the fine adjustments to get the alignment and the corner balance right on. I used to work in a performance shop building spec Miata’s and did a ton of alignment work on the cars
Judging from Marty n Moogs reactions to the changes in their cars.
Seats + Tires seem to be the biggest bang for the buck in track-day performance.
Which makes sense, they are what control the two biggest variables.
Adhesion to the road, and confidence from the driver.
Pug for the win
That little Suzuki is a beauty. I rarely like yellow on a car, but fits perfect on this supermini.
Goes to show what's truly important and you don't need to spend much. Brilliant series guys, keen to see what's next - Gemini?
Marty's Peugebro weight reduction was likely the biggest gain. Weight, tires and suspension makes the greatest difference around a track.
Moog will win in the long run though. A good platform for further modding
The Peugeot has a lot more left in it, even on a budget build but you’d need to spend more time on forums and hunting parts. Peugeots are like Lego, a lot of parts from bigger cars will fit. A shorter diff is an easy swap, etc…
They were in France two days ago (maybe still are), hopefully for some parts hunting !!!
I think the cage held back the swift but I know it was necessary for the bride seats so it's forgivable. I don't see why the suspension was not set up to its full potential, I mean that's the whole point of spending the money although I'm not sure it would've affected the outcome. Good series, can't wait to see what happens with the swift.
Peugbro!!! 🔥👏🏽
I am sooooo happy the Peugeot won. Wasn't really a fair shake for either car from the start and I believe the Swift is probably the faster car, but the 206 was such an Underdog and it completely deserves this win. Viva La France! 🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷
you guy's are amazing great content keep it going people
Find a 3,0 V6 Peugeot front end, and stick it in the rear of the 206, center engine that are very tunable, fix the gearing with lower tires, and remove all flex bushings from the anti roll bar, making it stiffer, there's so much more to do, for little, or no money, what about side rails out of alu, for the seat, i like the challenge of no or little money, much better than just buying stuff. Build over bought, everyday.
Loving this series!
I met these 2 legends in Paris. Nicest guys ever. Their empathy is second to none. They both signed my old moped. Now that moped has to live in my living room!!
Come back from a Macca's run, and there's the Cash Vs Trash finale. I'm Lovin It.
Just not the one where that dude shat his pants at.
Pads and fluids are like the #1 thing to do for a track day. I honestly consider it a safety thing. Some Motul 650 and stoptech sport pads are cheap and easy peace of mind for beginners.
I love the series but you wanted to see which is faster with upgrades but you didn’t use all the adjustability, instead matching the trash suspension. So what’s the point spending more you aren’t going to use it ?
What would we have adjusted?
Cheap car - YES, decent Brake pads and Discks - YES, Oil Cooler - YES, Sticky Tyres and race alignment - YES, Gauges Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, Water Temp - YES, Decent Seat and hardness - YES - Stock Engine and drive Train - YES - Trip interior - YES - Go Racing !! Reliable and Fun !!
try to do a cash build of the peugebro . those cars are a great deal of fun , especially in europe
"delayed parts from La France!"
As a former 206 GTi owner I am totally unbiased. That said, when Marty took 90kg out of the Peugeot, I thought that would make a difference! The 206 lift off oversteer compared with the Swifts resolute understeer makes the Peugeot more fun, and gives the driver more options.
24 seconds of freedom into this episode and I'm already clicking "like" while laughing!
I was so invested to this series and ho my god I was shook. what a result! excited to see the next series you do.
Now imagine with an S16/GTI or even a RC/GTI 180 🤣
Oof. Spending $25k on modding a Suzuki Swift and then getting chopped by the Pugebro... can't deny the style of those sick Bride seats though. Loved the series. Maybe do a cash vs trash on power adds next time?
MCM doing shitboxes is the most fun. Loved this series!
I hadn't even considered the PeugBro taking this. Well done. Genuinely surprised. Quelle surprise!! Spend a minimal few more and flush the brake fluid with DOT 4. If I remember right, it's compatible with DOT 3 but higher boiling point. To all the PeugBros and other car enthusiasts, do not use DOT 5. Completely different racing stuff.
I called the Peugeot winning from the off!! 😂😂 Would have been an absolute cake walk if a better french hatch was chosen too, or even the 206 GTI... Great videos boys, absolutely loved them as per 👌
Bit of a strange thing to say? Would it alsi have been a cakewalk if Moog had bought a more powerful Japanese hatchback?
@@ferrumignis i just meant they got an absolutely bottom end french hatch as opposed to something more capable out the box from the french offerings... They could have got a 106 gti or saxo VTS which is still a 1.6 litre, 120ish bhp, similar in size etc and it would have SMOKED the swifty if the 206 did 😂
@@VersionOneUK They couldn't have got either of them since they were never imported into Australia. The 206 was the closest equivalent to the Swift they could find for reasonable money. This whole series has been a disappointing half assed mess tbh. Moog spent a bunch of money on mostly pointless crap, added weight and just threw on his new suspension with no setup. The engine tuning segment was an absolute joke.
Stripping the Swift like the 206 would've made that difference back. A fiberglass/carbon bonnet would've been in-keeping with the cash theme too.
I love moogs when he looses a battle. His looks like he’s about to cry. I have great respect for Marty restraint in not laughing in Moogs face! 😂❤
Beyond safety, maintenance and engine cooling. Brakes(Pads and fluid), Tires, Seat + seat time will make the biggest difference and give you a good baseline as to where your money should go.
There's a gentleman that I used to do Autocross with whom had a base model FB RX7 with a carbie 12A (113hp). His money went into tires, suspension, brakes and seats and he would always dominate to the point that even cars with double the power couldn't keep up. The only cars that could, were actual race-cars, but even then he'd only be slightly off their pace. Had he shoved a NA 13B from the later FC's (160hp), he'd have no problems keeping pace with them.
Speaking of cheap, said gentleman had a fabrication class at the local Uni weld him up strut tower braces... His only cost was for materials, because those kinds of classes always need real-world projects.
I'm honestly in love with the Banana. I love the swift and am still hoping Suzuki comes back to the States. But im pleasantly surprised with the outcome. I want to see something to showcase what the puegbro is great at, and I would love to see the swift grow. Looking forward to the future episodes!
Excellent series, thankyou! Just seen a Swift Sport for sale down the road for £2400, never considered one as a cheap track car but now it looks like im going to have to convince the wife!
There's definitely something to be done with the Swift.
Adding bracing, strutbars and polybushes, would really make for an ultra stif platform. Then obviously a brake upgrade, and power upgrades would take it even further.
Imagine what a set if hot cams, better headers and a tune could do.
And finally strip it
Loved this series! Though I’m not convinced you found the sheer joy of racing the Kei cars in Japan like you originally set out to find ❤
the 206 is such an underrated car, one of the best budget track hatchbacks to build these days, also stock they are tons of fun! had a 2.0 GTI and now have a 1.6 16V XS, superb little cars
So fun story. My wife and I were on a quick road trip to pick some stuff up a couple of hours away. We decide to grab lunch but it's Sunday in the south so options can be limited. So we go to Chili's... I know. But we "enjoying" our food when I hear, "you're the bullet, I'm the gun" loudly sung over the background music... I freaked out a little. My wife didn't get it. Great job moog.
That was amazing! I would definitely buy the Suzuki first and would not pour 18k into it or anything. The buy good tires and send it is really the best way to improve the biggest factor the driver's skill
Literally started the video, so happy to see a pug on the channel. I have both a 308 and borrowing my stepdads 407 while I try to fix the 308. I plan to do it up as a side project, but it might be due the scrappy
Tires are always the best thing to buy. Not only are they better for grip on the track but something like the michelin PS4/5 are great for daily use aswell. There performance in the wet if amazing. Brakes are a big deal to of course. Depending on your car you might be able to get brakes off a similar OE car. Like putting GTR or Evo brakes onto different cars like people do.
Great to see you using a genuine race seat. If it happens again, come to us. You will understand why we build the best and supply most of the OEM race teams.
You can't drive at the grip limit of really good tires without some kind of decent baffles in the oil pan, especially with transverse cars. You're just oil starving the engine on and off constantly or if it's a big and fast enough sweeper for a long time. An oil/air separator is also a good safety item.
Awesome vid, the seat problem is a easy repair, the system that a allows the seat to move forward for someone to climb in is the problem just remove the little cable underneath that is connected to the side lever.
Peugeot rocks 🎉
Got one 3doors 206 1.1litres because there are no any living 1.4 or 1.6 in my city… there is not so much difference between 1.1 and 1.4 litre engines, but there IS a difference between 1.1 and 1.6) but with our traffic jams there is no difference. Main thing the A/c is working, the car in MINT condition, and got only 65000km and there is much potential in there to go 🎉 have a good roads everyone)
I think, at the end of the day...a good seat, good tires (wheels if needed) and slightly upgraded brakes/fluid would be all you need. Unbolt your rear seats and spare, etc. when you actually hit the track - but that's really all you'd need to bump the performance enough to have fun. I think some of the other stuff is definitely "too much" at this level of car unless you're planning to go full-nuts on it.
Let's go Peugbro!! I told you weeks before the Peugeot would trash the Suzuki trash. You guys should definitly keep the car. Do what you did with the Subaru and make it into an RC with the 2.0L engine and the suspension from that car. I would really love to see that!
Totally loved this series. Well done. Been there since the beginning on the driveway.
Peugeot is screaming for a turbo, cooling and brakes, great series guys!
Actually Moog, for me, UA-cam inserted an ad exactly before you said what your total money spent was😆 this was an interesting challenge and build series. I like certain cars that have an enthusiast following, but aren't very popular with the masses. It's nice to drive places and you have the only make and model car there.
FYI, brake fluid don’t boil, what happen is that old fluid will absorb water since it’s an hygroscopic fluid and then, the water contained within the fluid will evaporate creating pockets of vapor which is more compressible than brake fluid hence reducing the pascal going into the brakes.
Well done to the peugbro. Marty paid 3k for it but if you buy them where anywhere(country) around france you can easily find them for under 1000. Shouldnt be that difficult to get some extra power as well
Also please stick a 2.0gti engine in the 206 😂 easy swap
Reminds me video what I just seen recently on Facebook where the guy was driving Aston Martin and he couldn't shake off from little 206 😅...
Peugeots are absolutely brilliant cars for the money. Even if something goes wrong it's really cheap to fix / replace. So nice one little Peugeot 😃👍
Anytime I hear the OG music in the background, I am so instantly happy. Thank you both for your years of amazing content.
Great video guys, sure wasn't expecting this result!
Marty giving in far too early. Get rid of all the glass apart from windscreen. Trim more metal out. Better brakes v6 coupe and better cooling. Get a mapped ecu and stiffer from anti roll bar. Swirl pot for fuel and the pug will be loads more fun. Can do all on the cheap. Would show how much money moog is spending for little more. performance.
The Peugeot sounds like my first tuned car. Focus mk1 st, completely emptied out, 300euro coilovers. Gives a hell of fun, cheap aswell.
206 to this day competes in the motorsport category, it is a beautiful car that has an incredible factory setup, something that I don't think Peugeot does anymore at the moment, 206 is a great car without a doubt