When I watched this film with my mother I was floored how parallel the film was to our lives. I even grew up in bay area, hated California and moved to NYC. Fought with my family - fought with friends, and generally felt disconnection until my late 20s where I too called home to thank my family for all their hard love and hard work.
I think love actually is thoughtfulness- not just attention. It’s easy to pay attention to things that bother you, like a fly in your room. But thoughtfulness is even when in an argument you still treat that person with respect and try to see things from their pov. The mother should’ve given her advice, while also acknowledging her daughter’s autonomy. I don’t like when people say things like “your mother screams and controls you bc she cares.” Or “if they bully you they like you.” Not all attention is good attention.
I wonder if this movie was somewhat inspired by Joan Didion, who was from Sacremento and moved to New York to start her career as a writer and journalist. In her essay, "Notes from a Native Daughter" she describes Sacramento and California in the 60s with such precision, such attention.
I saw another video which quotes Gerwig saying that when she read Didion she felt like she understood Sacramento for the first time, after having lived there for so long. So I think you’re right.
I noticed the parallels between Lady Bird, her connections with her mom, and related it in a way to my relationship with my parents, including my late mother. Mom and I never really got the chance to talk about this. At the time it didnt feel like it mattered. She got sick, our relationship got better. She moved from being my worst enemy, to my greatest love and my best friend. My dad and I were the same way. But dad and I had the chance to fix things. We are so much better now. It took distance and time, but we worked it through. Seeing how things played out in this movie, and in my life, makes me realize that growth can sometimes be ugly, and tiring, but I'm lucky to have the opportunities to make things better.
Attention to what? If we are paying attention to someone’s flaws we don’t notice what makes them special and wonderful. Attention as a whole is not love, that idea is not acceptable because it doesn’t “pay attention” to the nuance. Like another comment said abusers pay attention to their victims not out of love. Marion may believe she is doing the best things for her daughter but really, she is just emotional immature. The child is allowed to be immature, they’re children. Children are allowed to test limits, explore who they are, make mistakes, change their minds. Lady Bird wants nothing more than her mother to understand and accept her for who she is. There are several examples in this movie where Lady Bird tries to impress her mother, with her boyfriend, joining the school play, having the goal to attend a notable school, etc. Marion does not pay attention to how hard Lady Bird tries to live up to her expectations. Marion wants what’s best for Lady Bird, but not from whats’s best FOR Lady Bird but what Marion deems best. Of course, parents jobs are to steer their children’s lives for a good amount of time, but as they get older they have to be given more and more control and parents need to pay attention to their own issues getting in the way of this. Marion pays attention to the things that aren’t important. Take the prom dress scene. Lady Bird is excited and joyful when she finds the dress. Marion doesn’t pay attention to her joy, she pays attention to how the dress isn’t what she would pick by asking “is it too pink?” Marion centers herself when it comes to anything that concerns Lady Bird. Marion doesn’t pay attention to the truth of why Lady Bird threw herself out of the car. Not as a stunt to torture her mother, but to escape the torture she feels of not being seen and heard and the relentless abuse by Marion. Someone throwing themselves out of a car to get away from you should be a big enough signal to ask yourself “Is there something I’m doing wrong?” The worse offense for me is when Marion stonewalls her. That is incredibly traumatic for children in families. That is such an extreme form of rejection and Marion did this to punish Lady Bird. That’s not love. All in all, this video is with good intention but Marion also has good intentions…. This video seems to unknowingly perpetuate the lie that any attention is better than none and we should accept people’s abuse as love.
I would challenge your statement, because as you are forgiving ladybird for her behavior I believe Marion also has a lot of weight on her back. I do believe some of the things she says to ladybird are terrible, but ladybird must really be driving her crazy. Even to me, lady bird wasn’t a likeable character throughout the film. What the film did was to get the viewer to understand where she was coming from and to develop her as a character. Obviously, Marion being a side character doesn’t get this same effect. I think we have to understand her role properly. Because she works double shifts, has all the economic pressure, while still having to raise ladybird basically by herself. Yes, she has a father but remember he has depression and also he doesn’t want to stand up against ladybird. With this said she has so much pressure on her back and although sometimes it might seem like she does ladybird wrong, I believe she’s trying her best. I feel like, following the statement that love is attention, she does love her because she does attend her needs. Also, we see how the mom really wants a relationship with ladybird but finds it hard to understand her and connect with her. (This isn’t by any means trying to start anything negative, I just want to say my opinion and continue the conversation. sorry if it’s too long, I got inspired😂)
@@anarolon6998 mm, i think a detail that lots of people just roll over is that Marion was raised by an abusive alcoholic, so maybe there's a hint of that generational trauma flavour in Marion, which is the main focus of alot of lots of these harsh critics of her. However, most of them try to pick her issues apart from the perspective of a vacuum, without really considering Ladybird's influence, her push-pull effect on her. Ladybird is in no way perfect; she's angsty, pampered, selfish, ungrateful at times, basically a rather messy and unlikeable character in her youth. The most hurtful part in the movie to me was when she just received her Davis' acceptance and unnecessarily (and unfairly) called out on her brother for getting into Berkeley based on his race. There were also a bunch more actions of hers, like abandoning her best friend Julie (temporarily) for another stupid boy crush, that are also rather questionable, but I won't list them because we've all watched the movie. Whether these adolescent impulsive actions should be normalised and accepted is another topic for discussion, I suppose. Back to Marion. It's true that Marion doesn't necessarily respect her completely. There are multiple times when she refuses to accept the Ladybird name given to herself, and some of her comments are just plain rude and scathing for a teenager still figuring things out. Yet, there are also those few quiet and peaceful scenes that really stood out to me, that really showed me how much Marion truly cared and loved her (maybe not liked?), like after her disappointing sex with Kyle, Marion came over and brought her along for their favourite activity: window house shopping. Moreover, she does come over in the end and refer to her by her preferred name, and respecting her more as a person. In my opinion, I simply think the instances of tough love is because she just doesn't know what to do with Ladybird's strong personality; someone has to play the bad guy and confront her, and that's certainly not the dad. It would likely be irresponsible for Marion to ignore all the unthinking actions that Ladybird does at times. So yes. While Marion is flawed in her parenting and in person- in agreement with the original comment, her most immature being when she stonewalled Ladybird - I don't think it's entirely fair to label her as "abusive" as a whole. Unless you think there's a certain threshold to the "abusive actions" that Marion has crossed that vindicates your opinion if her, which I personally dont think she has (where do we draw the line, right?). She could be more supportive, definitely, but she doesn't entirely invalidate Ladybird's character. Anyways, during the stonewall/fight/betrayal period, Marion does still end up writing a few letters for Ladybird, and clearly does show regret for her actions in the end, unlike SOME other more emotionally immature parents out there. Yup so in summary I dont think Marion is entirely abusive as others paint her to be.
@@anarolon6998 I hear what you’re saying in your comment. I form my perspective as a MFT that specializes in childhood relational trauma. It is true that Marion is supporting this family and there is so much pressure on her to keep the ship afloat. That part is not purposely ignored by my comment. However what I hear in your reply is trying to justify Marion, which is different from identifying explanations for her behavior. We have to remember that while played by an adult, which can trick our minds as viewers, lady bird is supposed to be 17/18 over the course of the movie. This conflict has been going on years before we see them. It’s not a fair fight with a 40/50 something against a child/teen. You mentioned how ladybird was not easy on Marion, but this comment is trying to equalize them in some way and they are not equals. Sure, children/teens can lack the awareness of their behaviors and parents can point this out to them, however, again, children and teens are expected to not have this awareness and maturity because they are still in the extreme developmental stage of their lives. Human brains are not matured until about age 25. Many people use this argument “they did the best they could”. That really isn’t 100% true. People do the best they can with the tools they have at a given time. However we can always learn more tools. We can always involve other resources, other people that can teach us the skills we are lacking as parents or areas we are just so lost in. As a parent, that is your job. Parenting is not just making sure they are fed, clothed and surviving. Parenting is modeling every aspect of life and developing a person. If one is not willing to work on themselves as a parent the child will be a reflection in many ways of these deficits. Many parents become parents because they desire a family, likely to have a family they didn’t have. However your children are not there to fulfill your dreams and make things easier for you.
@@ElliotAlderson-bs2rf Good points. I think it’s also helpful to remember that this is a movie. We can write characters into moments of redemption or give them needed awareness at the right time. So what Marion does toward the end is somewhat convenient for the story and ultimately for us to form opinions. In real life, it’s not as common to see that reflection and action happen to quickly. Abuse is a spectrum. Nothing is black and white. So I do consider the act of stonewalling a form of abuse as many others would as well. Speaking on black or white. People are nuanced. Of course Marion isn’t entirely an abusive person. No one is. People can do behave in ways that are abuse and neglectful as well as be loving and caring. There is no one or the other, however I think historically we haven’t been holding parents accountable well enough for those behaviors and trying to soften it with when they are loving and caring. Accountability is not the same as shaming. It’s about taking ownership.
As the Child of a Narcissistic, abusive parent, much like Marion, you are completely right. "Attention" alone, does not inherently equate to love. Like my parent, her Mom is so obsessed with appearance, and Lady Bird being "ideal" to fit within what SHE wants for her. She puts her values over Lady Bird's and then abuses Lady Bird when her values don't align. She's constantly trying to downplay Lady Bird's concerns and elevate her own over them. Lady Bird isn't allowed to be her own person because her Mom's values and concerns are more important. The fact alone that she often refuses to call her by her chosen name shows this directly. And when she says, "I want you to be the best version of yourself that you can be.", it shows that she feels she isn't. And to me it seems to imply that "the best version" is whatever Marion approves of. The scene after Lady Bird gets suspended really got to me. Lady Bird messed up at school, she said something inappropriate and got suspended. But the way her Mom speaks to her felt just like my parent. She asks her, "do you think I like x things I do for you?", in that way that narcissistic abusers ask a question where you can only respond with "No", they aren't real questions. They only ask them to make you feel bad for THEM, and make it seem like you're the source of the problems. It's particularly telling, and bad, because she also asks in that scene, "Do you have any idea how much it costs to raise you?", which to me is just a ridiculous point to make to YOUR child. Lady Bird, like everyone ever, never asked to exist. Children do not owe their parents for the financial cost they have, that's the parent's responsibility, it isn't a burden to be held against the Child, it isn't her fault she exists. Also, when Marion tells Lady Bird, "My mother was an abusive alcoholic." It's an abusive justification for her treatment, and it's her way of saying "I had it worse than you do, you're lucky I am the way I am." Marion's own experience with abuse does NOT justify her treatment of Lady Bird and if anything, it makes it worse. She failed to learn from her own experiences and is continuing the abuse on her own Daughter. She, like many abusive and neglectful parents, seems like she wasn't prepared to be a parent. The scene where she gives her the silent treatment was so well done, and so harrowing. I agree that it's the worst thing she does in the whole movie. The immaturity, and just how abusive it is to treat your child that way. She's begging and pleading for forgiveness, apologizing for things she doesn't need to apologize for. Her Mother is so selfish and stubborn that she completely ignores her crying for forgiveness in her face. Her continuing it at the Airport also is awful. Her having a "change of heart" and trying to go see her off doesn't make it any better, either, too little, too late. I think that the end of the movie is the worst part, because I think that Lady Bird doesn't owe her mother forgiveness. However, I'm OKAY with it because I understand that as a character, someone like Lady Bird could exist. It's possible that she, herself, has found a way to legitimately forgive her mother. It doesn't condone how she acted, and it doesn't mean her Mother's actions were out of love, or even if they were, that they were appropriate actions. But it is possible that Lady Bird came to some level of acceptance, and that's OKAY. I don't think I'll ever forgive my parent, because they've never given me a reason to, and I don't think they ever can.
this made me cry and rethink, analyse, and understand a little bit more about so many things I am alway so confused about and searching answers to. Thank you
Their relationship has love and disdain, both. I hope people don’t confuse the two. Yelling, insults and arguments are disdain, not love. “Paying attention” to someone by yelling at or insulting them is not love. You can pay attention without it being love. What makes the difference is the kind of attention you pay. Please understand 🙏🏽
I watched Lady Bird for the first time last night and can’t stop replaying the scenes in my mind- your video is one of the best I have found about the film, keep up the good work!
Their relationship has love and disdain, both. I hope people don’t confuse the two. Yelling, insults and arguments are disdain, not love. “Paying attention” to someone by yelling at or insulting them is not love. You can pay attention without it being love. What makes the difference is the kind of attention you pay. Please understand 🙏🏽
I still think mere attention isn't enough. It should also come with appreciation, respect, and support so the other person actually feels loved. Those times that her mom was scrutinizing her, Lady Bird didn't feel as appreciated and supported as she hoped to be (hence "what if this is the best version?"). Her mom also felt unappreciated when Lady Bird didn't listen to her advice regarding college. They might have been paying attention to each other but they often feel criticized and unappreciated. ): Their attention isn't translating as love to each other. You also said something about them understanding each other, but I think if they really did understand each other, they would not be as hostile to each other as they have been. There could be constructive criticism being given, but they were not listening to each other. Why else would they keep shouting? The understanding and appreciation (of that attention) only came at the end, when Lady Bird finally said "thank you". (Would have liked it better though if we also saw Marion reciprocated that appreciation and understanding to her Lady Bird at the end)
I really love this movie.... And never realised her love for sacremento that much but now I really do see the parallels btw her relationship with her mother and sacremento.. Great vid!!
Their relationship has love and disdain, both. I hope people don’t confuse the two. Yelling, insults and arguments are disdain, not love. “Paying attention” to someone by yelling at or insulting them is not love. You can pay attention without it being love. What makes the difference is the kind of attention you pay. Please understand 🙏🏽
Their relationship has love and disdain, both. I hope people don’t confuse the two. Yelling, insults and arguments are disdain, not love. “Paying attention” to someone by yelling at or insulting them is not love. You can pay attention without it being love. What makes the difference is the kind of attention you pay. Please understand 🙏🏽
I am still baffled how so many people chose to ignore all the many red flags of narcissistic abuse in this movie. As the child of a similarly dismissive, devaluing, guilt tripping, silent treatment using, condescending vulnerable narcissistic mother I absolutely LOATHED the sappy, unearned forgiveness ending that just keeps Lady Bird in a toxic relationship where she basicly self-gaslights herself to even thank her mother. It is a gut punch of hopelessness seeing how this poor girl is staying in the abusive relationship and still considering it her own task to fix it, just because of the conditional love breadcrumbing her abuser used. I mean she didn't even care to finish nor send any of those letters so they count for shit. And when she turned back to the airport that was just about her and her own self-pity. How are people still so blind to this form of abuse in 2023?
@@memento81As a victim of a similar toxic mother, I can't agree more. The amount of anger i felt when the ending gave no solutions for those who suffer from mommy issues. All it showed was the poor girl feeling helpless about her attachment to the abusive relationship she had with her mother. Very unhelpful movie.
@@memento81 it's not. Theres no such thing as a perfect relationship at all within a family or within a relationship with one or another. U also need to understand the perspective of the mother as well, not only on ladybirds. Having an open mind in both situation will understand that Lady bird understood her growth from her mother and that her attention from her is love. So youd rather have toxic positivity be a thing, and when a person loves you, checks all the boxes of the perfect person, then does something wrong to u, is fine compare to what the mom is doing?
@@memento81 or are u just going to keep running away from the world where no person will ever do anything bad to you, because right now waht ur saying is childish.
I love the fast pace, scenes are going so fast and then suddenly some scenes that may mean a bit more important to ladybug are slow, detailed, gentle. the pace is a mess, like youth, like Christine who swings between her given name and the name Ladybug.
When I watched this film with my mother I was floored how parallel the film was to our lives. I even grew up in bay area, hated California and moved to NYC. Fought with my family - fought with friends, and generally felt disconnection until my late 20s where I too called home to thank my family for all their hard love and hard work.
I think love actually is thoughtfulness- not just attention. It’s easy to pay attention to things that bother you, like a fly in your room. But thoughtfulness is even when in an argument you still treat that person with respect and try to see things from their pov. The mother should’ve given her advice, while also acknowledging her daughter’s autonomy. I don’t like when people say things like “your mother screams and controls you bc she cares.” Or “if they bully you they like you.” Not all attention is good attention.
I wonder if this movie was somewhat inspired by Joan Didion, who was from Sacremento and moved to New York to start her career as a writer and journalist. In her essay, "Notes from a Native Daughter" she describes Sacramento and California in the 60s with such precision, such attention.
I saw another video which quotes Gerwig saying that when she read Didion she felt like she understood Sacramento for the first time, after having lived there for so long. So I think you’re right.
doesn't it open with a Didion quote?
I noticed the parallels between Lady Bird, her connections with her mom, and related it in a way to my relationship with my parents, including my late mother. Mom and I never really got the chance to talk about this. At the time it didnt feel like it mattered. She got sick, our relationship got better. She moved from being my worst enemy, to my greatest love and my best friend. My dad and I were the same way. But dad and I had the chance to fix things. We are so much better now. It took distance and time, but we worked it through. Seeing how things played out in this movie, and in my life, makes me realize that growth can sometimes be ugly, and tiring, but I'm lucky to have the opportunities to make things better.
I’m in the same place as you are, I’m sorry for your loss and I’m so proud of you. ❤
@@OAMLLMAO you too.
this reminds me of a quote from the hunger games: "it's the things that we love most that destroy us"
Attention to what? If we are paying attention to someone’s flaws we don’t notice what makes them special and wonderful. Attention as a whole is not love, that idea is not acceptable because it doesn’t “pay attention” to the nuance. Like another comment said abusers pay attention to their victims not out of love. Marion may believe she is doing the best things for her daughter but really, she is just emotional immature. The child is allowed to be immature, they’re children. Children are allowed to test limits, explore who they are, make mistakes, change their minds. Lady Bird wants nothing more than her mother to understand and accept her for who she is. There are several examples in this movie where Lady Bird tries to impress her mother, with her boyfriend, joining the school play, having the goal to attend a notable school, etc. Marion does not pay attention to how hard Lady Bird tries to live up to her expectations. Marion wants what’s best for Lady Bird, but not from whats’s best FOR Lady Bird but what Marion deems best. Of course, parents jobs are to steer their children’s lives for a good amount of time, but as they get older they have to be given more and more control and parents need to pay attention to their own issues getting in the way of this. Marion pays attention to the things that aren’t important. Take the prom dress scene. Lady Bird is excited and joyful when she finds the dress. Marion doesn’t pay attention to her joy, she pays attention to how the dress isn’t what she would pick by asking “is it too pink?” Marion centers herself when it comes to anything that concerns Lady Bird. Marion doesn’t pay attention to the truth of why Lady Bird threw herself out of the car. Not as a stunt to torture her mother, but to escape the torture she feels of not being seen and heard and the relentless abuse by Marion. Someone throwing themselves out of a car to get away from you should be a big enough signal to ask yourself “Is there something I’m doing wrong?” The worse offense for me is when Marion stonewalls her. That is incredibly traumatic for children in families. That is such an extreme form of rejection and Marion did this to punish Lady Bird. That’s not love. All in all, this video is with good intention but Marion also has good intentions…. This video seems to unknowingly perpetuate the lie that any attention is better than none and we should accept people’s abuse as love.
I would challenge your statement, because as you are forgiving ladybird for her behavior I believe Marion also has a lot of weight on her back. I do believe some of the things she says to ladybird are terrible, but ladybird must really be driving her crazy. Even to me, lady bird wasn’t a likeable character throughout the film. What the film did was to get the viewer to understand where she was coming from and to develop her as a character. Obviously, Marion being a side character doesn’t get this same effect. I think we have to understand her role properly. Because she works double shifts, has all the economic pressure, while still having to raise ladybird basically by herself. Yes, she has a father but remember he has depression and also he doesn’t want to stand up against ladybird. With this said she has so much pressure on her back and although sometimes it might seem like she does ladybird wrong, I believe she’s trying her best. I feel like, following the statement that love is attention, she does love her because she does attend her needs. Also, we see how the mom really wants a relationship with ladybird but finds it hard to understand her and connect with her.
(This isn’t by any means trying to start anything negative, I just want to say my opinion and continue the conversation. sorry if it’s too long, I got inspired😂)
@@anarolon6998 mm, i think a detail that lots of people just roll over is that Marion was raised by an abusive alcoholic, so maybe there's a hint of that generational trauma flavour in Marion, which is the main focus of alot of lots of these harsh critics of her.
However, most of them try to pick her issues apart from the perspective of a vacuum, without really considering Ladybird's influence, her push-pull effect on her. Ladybird is in no way perfect; she's angsty, pampered, selfish, ungrateful at times, basically a rather messy and unlikeable character in her youth. The most hurtful part in the movie to me was when she just received her Davis' acceptance and unnecessarily (and unfairly) called out on her brother for getting into Berkeley based on his race. There were also a bunch more actions of hers, like abandoning her best friend Julie (temporarily) for another stupid boy crush, that are also rather questionable, but I won't list them because we've all watched the movie. Whether these adolescent impulsive actions should be normalised and accepted is another topic for discussion, I suppose.
Back to Marion. It's true that Marion doesn't necessarily respect her completely. There are multiple times when she refuses to accept the Ladybird name given to herself, and some of her comments are just plain rude and scathing for a teenager still figuring things out. Yet, there are also those few quiet and peaceful scenes that really stood out to me, that really showed me how much Marion truly cared and loved her (maybe not liked?), like after her disappointing sex with Kyle, Marion came over and brought her along for their favourite activity: window house shopping. Moreover, she does come over in the end and refer to her by her preferred name, and respecting her more as a person. In my opinion, I simply think the instances of tough love is because she just doesn't know what to do with Ladybird's strong personality; someone has to play the bad guy and confront her, and that's certainly not the dad. It would likely be irresponsible for Marion to ignore all the unthinking actions that Ladybird does at times.
So yes. While Marion is flawed in her parenting and in person- in agreement with the original comment, her most immature being when she stonewalled Ladybird - I don't think it's entirely fair to label her as "abusive" as a whole. Unless you think there's a certain threshold to the "abusive actions" that Marion has crossed that vindicates your opinion if her, which I personally dont think she has (where do we draw the line, right?). She could be more supportive, definitely, but she doesn't entirely invalidate Ladybird's character. Anyways, during the stonewall/fight/betrayal period, Marion does still end up writing a few letters for Ladybird, and clearly does show regret for her actions in the end, unlike SOME other more emotionally immature parents out there.
Yup so in summary I dont think Marion is entirely abusive as others paint her to be.
@@anarolon6998 I hear what you’re saying in your comment. I form my perspective as a MFT that specializes in childhood relational trauma. It is true that Marion is supporting this family and there is so much pressure on her to keep the ship afloat. That part is not purposely ignored by my comment. However what I hear in your reply is trying to justify Marion, which is different from identifying explanations for her behavior. We have to remember that while played by an adult, which can trick our minds as viewers, lady bird is supposed to be 17/18 over the course of the movie. This conflict has been going on years before we see them. It’s not a fair fight with a 40/50 something against a child/teen. You mentioned how ladybird was not easy on Marion, but this comment is trying to equalize them in some way and they are not equals. Sure, children/teens can lack the awareness of their behaviors and parents can point this out to them, however, again, children and teens are expected to not have this awareness and maturity because they are still in the extreme developmental stage of their lives. Human brains are not matured until about age 25. Many people use this argument “they did the best they could”. That really isn’t 100% true. People do the best they can with the tools they have at a given time. However we can always learn more tools. We can always involve other resources, other people that can teach us the skills we are lacking as parents or areas we are just so lost in. As a parent, that is your job. Parenting is not just making sure they are fed, clothed and surviving. Parenting is modeling every aspect of life and developing a person. If one is not willing to work on themselves as a parent the child will be a reflection in many ways of these deficits. Many parents become parents because they desire a family, likely to have a family they didn’t have. However your children are not there to fulfill your dreams and make things easier for you.
@@ElliotAlderson-bs2rf Good points. I think it’s also helpful to remember that this is a movie. We can write characters into moments of redemption or give them needed awareness at the right time. So what Marion does toward the end is somewhat convenient for the story and ultimately for us to form opinions. In real life, it’s not as common to see that reflection and action happen to quickly. Abuse is a spectrum. Nothing is black and white. So I do consider the act of stonewalling a form of abuse as many others would as well. Speaking on black or white. People are nuanced. Of course Marion isn’t entirely an abusive person. No one is. People can do behave in ways that are abuse and neglectful as well as be loving and caring. There is no one or the other, however I think historically we haven’t been holding parents accountable well enough for those behaviors and trying to soften it with when they are loving and caring. Accountability is not the same as shaming. It’s about taking ownership.
As the Child of a Narcissistic, abusive parent, much like Marion, you are completely right. "Attention" alone, does not inherently equate to love. Like my parent, her Mom is so obsessed with appearance, and Lady Bird being "ideal" to fit within what SHE wants for her. She puts her values over Lady Bird's and then abuses Lady Bird when her values don't align. She's constantly trying to downplay Lady Bird's concerns and elevate her own over them. Lady Bird isn't allowed to be her own person because her Mom's values and concerns are more important. The fact alone that she often refuses to call her by her chosen name shows this directly. And when she says, "I want you to be the best version of yourself that you can be.", it shows that she feels she isn't. And to me it seems to imply that "the best version" is whatever Marion approves of.
The scene after Lady Bird gets suspended really got to me. Lady Bird messed up at school, she said something inappropriate and got suspended. But the way her Mom speaks to her felt just like my parent. She asks her, "do you think I like x things I do for you?", in that way that narcissistic abusers ask a question where you can only respond with "No", they aren't real questions. They only ask them to make you feel bad for THEM, and make it seem like you're the source of the problems. It's particularly telling, and bad, because she also asks in that scene, "Do you have any idea how much it costs to raise you?", which to me is just a ridiculous point to make to YOUR child. Lady Bird, like everyone ever, never asked to exist. Children do not owe their parents for the financial cost they have, that's the parent's responsibility, it isn't a burden to be held against the Child, it isn't her fault she exists. Also, when Marion tells Lady Bird, "My mother was an abusive alcoholic." It's an abusive justification for her treatment, and it's her way of saying "I had it worse than you do, you're lucky I am the way I am." Marion's own experience with abuse does NOT justify her treatment of Lady Bird and if anything, it makes it worse. She failed to learn from her own experiences and is continuing the abuse on her own Daughter. She, like many abusive and neglectful parents, seems like she wasn't prepared to be a parent.
The scene where she gives her the silent treatment was so well done, and so harrowing. I agree that it's the worst thing she does in the whole movie. The immaturity, and just how abusive it is to treat your child that way. She's begging and pleading for forgiveness, apologizing for things she doesn't need to apologize for. Her Mother is so selfish and stubborn that she completely ignores her crying for forgiveness in her face. Her continuing it at the Airport also is awful. Her having a "change of heart" and trying to go see her off doesn't make it any better, either, too little, too late.
I think that the end of the movie is the worst part, because I think that Lady Bird doesn't owe her mother forgiveness. However, I'm OKAY with it because I understand that as a character, someone like Lady Bird could exist. It's possible that she, herself, has found a way to legitimately forgive her mother. It doesn't condone how she acted, and it doesn't mean her Mother's actions were out of love, or even if they were, that they were appropriate actions. But it is possible that Lady Bird came to some level of acceptance, and that's OKAY. I don't think I'll ever forgive my parent, because they've never given me a reason to, and I don't think they ever can.
this made me cry and rethink, analyse, and understand a little bit more about so many things I am alway so confused about and searching answers to. Thank you
Their relationship has love and disdain, both. I hope people don’t confuse the two. Yelling, insults and arguments are disdain, not love. “Paying attention” to someone by yelling at or insulting them is not love. You can pay attention without it being love.
What makes the difference is the kind of attention you pay.
Please understand 🙏🏽
I watched Lady Bird for the first time last night and can’t stop replaying the scenes in my mind- your video is one of the best I have found about the film, keep up the good work!
Their relationship has love and disdain, both. I hope people don’t confuse the two. Yelling, insults and arguments are disdain, not love. “Paying attention” to someone by yelling at or insulting them is not love. You can pay attention without it being love.
What makes the difference is the kind of attention you pay.
Please understand 🙏🏽
I still think mere attention isn't enough. It should also come with appreciation, respect, and support so the other person actually feels loved.
Those times that her mom was scrutinizing her, Lady Bird didn't feel as appreciated and supported as she hoped to be (hence "what if this is the best version?"). Her mom also felt unappreciated when Lady Bird didn't listen to her advice regarding college. They might have been paying attention to each other but they often feel criticized and unappreciated. ): Their attention isn't translating as love to each other.
You also said something about them understanding each other, but I think if they really did understand each other, they would not be as hostile to each other as they have been. There could be constructive criticism being given, but they were not listening to each other. Why else would they keep shouting?
The understanding and appreciation (of that attention) only came at the end, when Lady Bird finally said "thank you".
(Would have liked it better though if we also saw Marion reciprocated that appreciation and understanding to her Lady Bird at the end)
I really love this movie....
And never realised her love for sacremento that much but now I really do see the parallels btw her relationship with her mother and sacremento..
Great vid!!
Their relationship has love and disdain, both. I hope people don’t confuse the two. Yelling, insults and arguments are disdain, not love. “Paying attention” to someone by yelling at or insulting them is not love. You can pay attention without it being love.
What makes the difference is the kind of attention you pay.
Please understand 🙏🏽
Their relationship has love and disdain, both. I hope people don’t confuse the two. Yelling, insults and arguments are disdain, not love. “Paying attention” to someone by yelling at or insulting them is not love. You can pay attention without it being love.
What makes the difference is the kind of attention you pay.
Please understand 🙏🏽
this made me cry. beautifully written and extensive analysis.
the way i would love to be your friend bc i just KNOW our book conversations would be hilarious lmfao
Marion is emotionally abusive, regardless of her love
Definitely a good discussion to be had there! For sure the movie doesn’t shy away from either character’s flaws.
I am still baffled how so many people chose to ignore all the many red flags of narcissistic abuse in this movie. As the child of a similarly dismissive, devaluing, guilt tripping, silent treatment using, condescending vulnerable narcissistic mother I absolutely LOATHED the sappy, unearned forgiveness ending that just keeps Lady Bird in a toxic relationship where she basicly self-gaslights herself to even thank her mother. It is a gut punch of hopelessness seeing how this poor girl is staying in the abusive relationship and still considering it her own task to fix it, just because of the conditional love breadcrumbing her abuser used. I mean she didn't even care to finish nor send any of those letters so they count for shit. And when she turned back to the airport that was just about her and her own self-pity. How are people still so blind to this form of abuse in 2023?
@@memento81As a victim of a similar toxic mother, I can't agree more. The amount of anger i felt when the ending gave no solutions for those who suffer from mommy issues. All it showed was the poor girl feeling helpless about her attachment to the abusive relationship she had with her mother. Very unhelpful movie.
@@memento81 it's not. Theres no such thing as a perfect relationship at all within a family or within a relationship with one or another. U also need to understand the perspective of the mother as well, not only on ladybirds. Having an open mind in both situation will understand that Lady bird understood her growth from her mother and that her attention from her is love. So youd rather have toxic positivity be a thing, and when a person loves you, checks all the boxes of the perfect person, then does something wrong to u, is fine compare to what the mom is doing?
@@memento81 or are u just going to keep running away from the world where no person will ever do anything bad to you, because right now waht ur saying is childish.
I love the fast pace, scenes are going so fast and then suddenly some scenes that may mean a bit more important to ladybug are slow, detailed, gentle. the pace is a mess, like youth, like Christine who swings between her given name and the name Ladybug.
bullies often pay an exceptional amount of attention to their victims
this is so beautiful and spot on, thank you jacob!
I knew there was something about this movie that really hit me the wrong way.....2 way relationships require two-way attention.....
this is amazing
I'm not crying, you're crying 😭
Lady Bird's mother is thoughtfully cruel.
Name of the piano song at the end?
reconcile - jon brion
@@kayraaliza thank you