My favorite touch in the Mark/Vanessa dynamic is her Alice In Chains shirt in the scene where she’s painting the baby room. Either it’s his shirt and she thinks so little of it that she paints in it, or it’s her old shirt that she now uses as a chore shirt. She’s evolved either way. And there’s literally a baby yellow streak right across it, showing how much that takes priority over the band she may have once bonded with him over.
And if it IS her shirt, it shows that she is a real person with interests and a personality, too, but her dynamic with her husband and desire to have a full life with a participating partner has turned her into the mean mommy shrew wife in everyone's eyes. That's also why I like the scene in the mall, because she isn't with her husband there, and Juno realizes how little she actually knows her out of context.
I personally interpreted it as Juno truly seeing Mark as a friend (in her odd ways) and never understanding the depth of how weird it actually was. She was young and because she wanted Mark and Vanessa to be deeply in love for the baby's sake, she never thought he'd like her as she liked him..because she thought he was devoted to his wife. I think that's why the second he makes his move saying he wants to leave Vanessa, Juno is disgusted and angry. The movie is far more complex then most give/gave it credit for. I'm glad you pointed that out. Surprisingly it still kinda holds up today! Page and Cara had perfect chemistry imo
Exactly. Women who have been through it. Understand that this is how grooming works. And what Mark was doing is how many older men get too close to young women. Thats why its called GROOMING. It's a process of normalizing behaviors bit by bit until a line is crossed But because you are eased into that point slowly and over time by normalizing one thing after the other. You don't necessarily realize how messed up it is. It wasn't put in just for a misdirect and it didn't develop that way just for a misdirect. I remember watching this when I was in high school and Feeling that tension of wondering, if mark was going to be a good normal guy or if something was weird. And not being able to put my finger on it. They absolutely nailed that experience as a young girl.
Yes. I had this happen to me when I was in my late teens. It's so devastating when it happens, and I've always found it interesting that most women always picked up on this when seeing the film, but most men seem blindsided.
@@lauralouwhoooAlso the experience as a young boy or maybe young nonbinary or whatever they see themselves at the time. Since they are still discovering themselves.
@@moxxibekkNo no no it’s not most men but there are definitely some men and some women, and honestly some People who are blindsided by it which is either concerning in a “Hopefully you aren’t a victim” or a concerning “I hope you’re not doing this” it could be a number of things to be honest. Much like how many people thought killing stalking was romantic…and honestly a lot of those “romance” books/movies/shows. That they think is romantic. Some thinking they want a relationship like that others only liking it in fiction (thank goodness) and or for a different reason. Nowadays though more people are well more aware how unhealthy and or predatory those relationships are.
These tricks were not seen as impressive. It was considered a brilliant movie when it came out because of the subject matter for about a month until we all realized it's really just an after school special with cussing.
I thought it was cute Vanessa was in an Alice in Chains tee shirt when they did the nursery because they had a common interest, but now I realize how clever this costuming choice was. She's wearing one of his tee shirts for painting because it's NOT important to her. Interesting.
I always felt like it was hers. The things that still define mark, who refuses to grow up, used to define Vanessa too. She just made the decision to move forward with her life and be a responsible adult. I painted my kids' nursery while wearing a high school drama production tshirt from when I thought I'd be the next Idina Menzel. I, like Vanessa, grew up. Luckily, so did my husband.
@@Lucy-vx2lsI agree I think it's her shirt from earlier on in the relationship. I always assumed that they've been together for a while; They're married, they have a nice house and they've been through fertility struggles and at least one prior adoption that fell through. They probably started out quite similar with a lot of shared interests. As they grew older Vanessa matured and grew as a person and Mark didn't. Which caused her to have to be the serious one who seemed boring and "not fun" to Juno.
Something I appreciate a lot about this movie is the way it makes you see Vanessa as the "bad guy" until you realise that actually Mark is. Watching it with a 2007 perspective, or the perspective of a teen/tween, you really think it's cool to be like Mark and that Vanessa is just being too uptight and she needs to find her chill.... honestly I think Juno was the beginning of my generation pushing against the caretaker woman and the childish husband trope.
It was beautiful when you saw Vanessa get the baby, because you knew she was very capable, what you read as uptight in the beginning was responsibility and you knew 100 she was going to be a good mom. Fun is nice, but you want someone you can count on, and that means someone who isn’t only out for themselves like Mark.
I don't agree that anyone was the "bad guy", I think it was just trying to show that they had different priorities, and what would complete Vanessa as a person isn't what would complete Mark.
Each time Juno presses a limit with Bateman she believes it's a line he won't cross. Because in her mind the married couple have been ingrained to be a strong family for her baby, he doesn't rings alarm bells for her. I remember occasions in my teens while babysitting and talking to somewhat non-lame dads who would let me flip through their records, borrow books I liked, take too much time driving me home. These coupled with grown adults reminding you about your old soul and being wise beyond your years- can all really be a confusing recipe for disaster. And an adult knows what they're doing, the teen is emotionally twisted. In the end the adult is with that minor and they have to work on those boundaries that can prevent a curious kid from getting hurt
This isnt insightful but your comment reminded me of one time where I was babysitting and the dad came home while the kids were eating at the table and i was sitting with them. Normally his wife came first and bustled in, asked about their homework and paid me. He just sat at the table with us and commented that we were 'like a family' and he'd swapped his wife for a 'ypunger model'. He was already a good bit older than wife and said that right in front of his kids.
@@is-yn6jf Jesus that's so messed up. I'd say these comments have opened my eyes to messed up babysitter dynamics, but then again I used to babysit a kid whose older sister had a crush on me, so I guess I kinda knew that already!
This makes me so glad I have more self awareness then most men. I think this movie shows how men can get caught up in thinking a young girl is more then she is, and foolishly believe that there is nothing wrong with dating a younger girl. Some men target young girls intentionally because their easy to manipulate, but a lot of men aren't trying to be creeps. They instead use denial and fool themselves into believing that they are doing nothing wrong, or even something good. This can be even more dangeious, because I think it happens far more often. Even good men can become immoral and dangerous, if they lack self awareness.
Marc's outfit choices in the scenes are a perfect mirror of his changing attitude towards Juno and another subtle way we are being manipulated into thinking that they are getting closer. First, he's like a male version of Vanessa, only slightly removed from the dressed-in-all-white- framed couple pictures on the wall of the staircase. When they meet next he's still wearing a shirt but it's more casual and checkered- just as Juno's often are. In the last scene he's wearing some sort of band-shirt which makes him look significantly younger.
This is great video, but I think you should have mentioned that audience expectations played a huge part, due to established tropes. This is most significant in the Vanessa/Mark storyline. Sitcoms and movies have been based around the premise of "gorgeous, responsible woman puts up with her slovenly man-child of a husband" for so long that not only does it feel completely normal to see it in a movie, it's considered incredibly normal in real-life relationships. We didn't see their divorce coming, because that's never it ends.
I think this is because people get married way too young, men just don't learn to take care of themselves before getting "a new mom". Plus the fact that getting a divorce is annoying and complicated and you're used to it so you put it off. Marriage is kind of a cultural trap.
@@nabis2424 all of society is set up to let them remain children, emotionally stunted children. And when mature women with careers just don't need that anymore to survive and can afford to set a higher standard, they (collectively) freak out. There's articles now about the crisis for young men, because young women require someone who can hold a conversation and has emotional intelligence, will do equal chores. Basic things! Basic Adulting.
I watched Juno in middle school when it was released. I rewatched it as an adult a few years ago and the perspective change was UNREAL. I went from seeing it as a naive but grown feeling teenaged girl to an actually grown adult woman. And the movie held up!
@@lydiademarek when I was watching this movie for the first time I was 13. I wanted her to be with Jason Bateman’s character because I was naive and didn’t know any better. I thought Juno was mature and cool. As an adult who’s been in a marriage and has children, I watch and see Juno’s immaturity and that she’s still learning who she is. Certain lines, like when she’s talking about music before she was born as if she was there, are cringy in a realistic way you’d get talking to a teen. You can see the strain in the adopted couple’s marriage immediately with the meeting from the lawyer and aren’t as blindsided as a 13 year old girl seeing them split. It’s all about perspective.
This film came out right after I turned 13 and rewatching it throughout the years as I’ve grown and matured REALLY shines a light on Mark’s grooming tendencies and how munch of a loser he actually is. Teenagers love seeing adults that have the same “cool” interests as them and think adults that “sell out” for stability are lame, so it’s no wonder Juno gravitates towards Mark. However, that really powerful argument scene with Mark and Vanessa which really tackles the core of their dysfunctional marriage is something most teenagers aren’t mature enough to fully understand (Juno even says to her dad, “I’ve just been out dealing with things way beyond my maturity level”). I also love that Juno recognizes that just because you like cool shit doesn’t mean you’re a good, responsible adult, and that she can see that Vanessa is truly fit to be a mother, so she continues through with the plan to give Vanessa the child she’s always wanted. God, I love this movie.
I don't know how old you were when you first saw it but I was a teenager. Hearing that mischievous kind of thing from a friend or from a trusted adult as a joke comes off a different way to you when you are naive/innocent. It went right over my head too. Like juno I thought this guy might be cool and maybe a little lazy but never that he was a gd creep. But he was. Ew.
Any adult man wanting to be a teenager is a huge red flag. I always felt bad for his wife as she was basically already his mother. I'm glad she got her baby in the end, she'll be a good mom, she just didn't have an equal as a partner.
YES! I mean, people can live the lives they want, but when anybody is living a lie in their relationship, they need to really fix it up or pack it up. I would have more sympathy for him hypothetically if he came clean to her months ago and said “I’m not going to give you the life you want, and I’m not living the life I want. It’s not your fault”, and then bounced. But this guy is just coasting while trying to relive the past. Real people do have to suck it up and take the paycheck, and bloom into the next stage. It’s the hard truth of adulting
another clever thing about the mark/juno thing is that teenage girls being into older men gets brought up several times earlier in the movie, in particular with the popular girls being into their teacher
I also feel like an important part in the divorce surprise is not knowing when it’s going to happen. Yes, you can see that these people aren’t meant to be, but are they going to figure that out before they adopt a child? Knowing that there’s a bomb but it never seeming to go off is unnerving and the thought that they may figure it out after the point of no return is scary.
I’m late but anyone else mentioned that the reason Juno tries not to get close to Michael Cera is because of his parents divorce. It’s also why she was so mad at mark at the end, because to her they seemed to be perfect and would be together forever. And it shattered her illusion of what she subconsciously wished. She doesn’t want to get attached because someone she loved already abandoned her aka her mom.
I studied this film for the equivalent of my final year high school English exam in Ireland. At the time I thought it was because whoever sets the curriculum was trying to be relevant and cool, but as I studied it, I came to realise what a fantastic story and movie it was. I've really enjoyed re-watching it over the years, it never gets old. Not to mention, watching it as a teenager, then a college student, then as an adult in a relationship, it's been so rewarding. Not to mention, the soundtrack is absolutely perfect. Great video!
When I first watched the movie I didn't pick up on the "romance" aspect of their relationship at all. Maybe I need to watch it again, but I think this video is off on that point. The would-be adoptive father is starved of contact with anyone who shares his interests. He's just a nerd who found another nerd. If Juno had been a boy nobody would have seen their relationship as romantic.
@@98Zai But for the sake of the film, Page was playing a girl. And lots of women do pick up on the subtext that Mark has an interest in Juno. It's not "romance." It's creepy. Juno doesn't see what's happening from that angle because the primary concern is that these two adults are a stable and loving home for the child Juno will be giving them. Mark will be a "cool dad" to that baby from Juno's perspective. From Mark's perspective.. I guess it's okay to groom teens? Idk, I can't put myself in the mindset of a pedo.
Something i trally love about Juno, in the aspect of misdirection, is that there have been time and aain storylines of people who in the end decide to keep the baby and somehoe mature 20+ gears in the matter of a few weeks. Not Juno, they didnt hold back that Juno was not ready to be a mom and she made no inclination that she wanted to keep the child except birth/post birth crying in her bed but that was her true growing up moment. Juno keeping the baby would honestly be the worst outcome
It might be the worst outcome storywise but when I first watched the movie it was really puzzling to me why she wouldn’t just keep her child, especially under her circumstances. I understand she’s young and immature, but she gets to a really good and loving place with the baby’s father and has a solid safety net (her dad and stepmom - how could they just give away their grandson?) I’m a mum of three and would take care of any of my children’s babies in a heartbeat if a pregnancy occurred before they felt ready. Whenever possible, I think children should be brought up within their own family (an aunt/uncle, grandmother…). These stories often center around the mother-to-be and the family wishing to adopt, but in real life we must also think of the child who never gets to meet his/her family and know his/her roots until already grown-up? If Juno had lived in a toxic environment I would totally get it, but the context the movie provides makes the outcome feel so strange to me? I wonder how this story would’ve played out narrating it from the baby’s point of view. “Yeah, my mum gave me up for adoption, then got together with my dad, they got married and had two kids, so I have two siblings that I only met when I was 20 and was able to get in touch with them. Meanwhile I was raised by a divorced single mum." 😅
In addition to subverting the audience's expectations through the perspective of Juno, I think the movie also manages to use the audiences expectations of a movie to misdirect. Most movie viewers expect drastic changes and twists because that is what we are used to through the lens of film. "Juno" reminds us of the mundane predictability of real life that we forget about while watching a movie.
I got a lot out of this movie as a kid, even though I was about 10 years old when I first saw it. It taught me the consequences of unprotected (and poorly planned) sex, that it isn’t always the end of the world if you do get pregnant, and it also taught me to be wary of “mature” men like Mark and not to overlook “losers” like Paulie just because they aren’t the perfect image of your dream man. But most importantly, when Juno chooses to side with Vanessa over Mark, it showed me that you CAN prioritize the happiness of people other than a romantic prospect, and the power there is in doing so. Her decision to keep her promise to Vanessa was the first instance of true female solidarity that I had ever seen in media, and it was portrayed so well and with such care. I haven’t seen the film in almost a decade, but I remember the moment when Vanessa gets to hold her baby for the first time . How, after all of the grief she’d suffered throughout the film, she came out happier than she’d dreamed she could be thanks to Juno’s strength of character.
This was one of my favorite movies in middle school but something i never noticed until i was an adult: the hint that Mark has done this before. When Juno comes back upstairs crying, and then Mark follows behind her, the very first thing Vanessa does is look at Mark and say “What did you do?”. Like she already knew. Juno is told early on that Mark and Vanessa had an arrangement for adoption some time before Juno contacted them, but that the mom got “cold feet”. Good chance Mark sabotaged that too
I always thought Juno saw on Mark a cool dad for her kid. She couldn’t relate to Vanessa but respected her, with Mark she was excited of the idea of him as a father for her child.
I was pretty close to the character of Juno's age when the film actually came out, and this analysis tracks. A teenager wouldn't pick up on all of those clues right away or wouldn't be aware that taking something for granted would not work out in the long run.
I'm not artistic, I miss so much. When you explain it... I want to say 'rationally' or even 'scientifically', it helps me so much... thank you. When he agreed he wanted to be a father at around 11:00, I was amazed that his acting even incorporated the unconscious human reaction to shake one's head at the same time they are agreeing (and lying)... our bodies do not want to lie.
When I watched the movie for the first time we attribute someone who is knocked up at a young age to be a bit stupid. But why I liked Juno was how mature she was with what she wanted in life and how she was able to identify someone who is good. I struggle to identify people who are good and I am in my thirties. So I felt this movie challenged a lot of existing tropes in movies.
I’m glad I decided to rewatch the movie before I continued this vid. It still holds up, killer soundtrack, and a great snapshot taken from a time right before cellphones and personal computers. As many others have said, to experience this movie again now as an adult and no longer a teen, our perspective changes so much. I was just as naive as Juno was about Mark, as an adult you see the situations so differently. So thanks for making me watch Juno again, it was a nostalgic trip down memory lane.
everyone was perfectly cast in this movie. jason bateman though was so perfect for mark because he’s brilliant at the fake passion 😭 after seeing the film once then everytime i watched it after i just died at him saying “yeahhh..,you betcha.” about wanting to be a dad lmao. ugh i love this movie, such a good comfort film taking me back to my old 70s style house as a tween in 2007 on my green couch. watching this was one of my versions of “dealing with things way beyond my maturity level” as juno says!
My parents were both educators so I feel like I saw this from a different lenses than most. I remember going to see this in theaters with my mom in high school and being immediately so icked out by Mark. We had some teachers in our school district that acted that way, and it always rubbed me the wrong way when my friends would talk about wanting to flirt with them/enjoying the personal attention. Turns out the main teacher I always had a weird feeling about was sexting the softball team girls he COACHED. He was married and has a two year old. Idk, the scenes with Mark in Juno always hit close to home for me. Communities love to overlook men like Mark and pretend they are not predators because they’re charming and educated.
I've worked with teens, and as a guy it is a balancing act between being friendly and inappropriate, but it's really not that hard to do it properly if your intentions are good. If a teacher gives you a weird feeling, he's probably enjoying it a little too much.
I got the ick from Mark as well the first time I watched it. I think the writer and actor managed to keep it just about on the right side, but definitely uncomfortable to watch.
To reinforce the clothing frame, when Vanessa is painting, she's wearing an Alice In Chains shirt. I took it as a not-so-subtle nod to how she feels about his love for music, as a dirty work shirt she's not unwilling to get paint on.
I always thought it was HER shirt she’d outgrown. I couldn’t see Mark being cool with her trashing one of his band t shirts. I think it’s a nod to how they ended up together, they used to be similar people. But now she’s evolved and he hasn’t.
Hot take, but I felt what happened was pretty obvious? Like I saw it coming and I was IMMEDIATELY super suspicious of Mark. The thing is, it’s all in the cinematography. The camera gives a lot away, and if you come at it from the perspective of “the director chose to do it this way.. why?” It really makes things clear. None of that, however, stopped me from bawling my eyes out at the end of the movie. 😓👏🏻
It's definitely weird that the dude didn't mention that Mark is super creepy and the core facet of the "building relationship" is the horror of this man-child exploiting a vulnerable teenager.
@@seigeengineThis is the first time I've even heard of this movie, and I'm only about two minutes in. Even I could tell that the guy was shady as hell from just the line about him (and only him, not both him and his wife) getting close to the pregnant sixteen year old.
I wouldn't say it's about the cinematography. The "good man" slot had already been filled by JK Simmons' character so the rest must be inefectual or villainous
@SizzlingVibe By any chance, are you a woman? I'm a woman and it was obvious to me, but it caught my husband off guard. I'm wondering if that comes down to the difference between how men and women read words and body language.
Something I noticed in the movie I watch again just a couple days ago. How smart and reasonable for her age while still being incredibly immature. She often jokes about the baby like its no big deal, or how things will go back to normal "like nothing ever happened." When shes told the seriousness of hanging out with an adult married man alone she has no understanding of it and just thinks her step mom doesn't trust her or he wouldn’t want to "hang out" with a teenager. Even when Juno notices little looks and flirts she either blows them off or it makes her feel special instead of weary because an older cool guy is "into" her. Its why she ends up confiding in him and coming to him more often, it especially shows how incredibly vaunerble she is. She takes his praise probably even more than she would another time because she states herself that most people stare at her and avoid her like the plauge at school so to still feel attracted to must feel nice. This leaves her in a postion to basically say and do whatever he wants. He shows her a very sexualized comic of a teenage super hero and says its "his favorite". And openly tells her doubts about Vanessa. The thing that made me realize more than anything the damage he already done. Is when shes walking out crying before Juno can talk he keep insisting "its nothing RIGHT Juno?" And she can't even look at him because she now feels in a postion that its her fault.
Well told stories don't need to be mysterious. They just need to be well told, which Juno is. Inevitability is just a place holder for feeling realistic, given the constraints of the world as it was presented to us. The tools for giving us those constraints are story telling: foreshadowing, theme, language, perspective.
One character I never really hear people talk about is Juno's stepmother. It was my father who pointed out to me, that at first, they kind of present her as a character that isn't all that great, until the sonogram scene happens, and she defends her so hard. (It has been many years since I've seen it, so forgive me that I don't remember the details of how they originally presented the stepmom.)
I feel like none of these are surprises unless your a man who's never had to deal with predatory men a day in your life. I dunno, but your reading of Juno and Mark's relationship feels like a gross misunderstanding of the intent behind their relationship. And that's not an insult to you, that's just me saying your personal experience created a blinder where for others (mainly AFAB people) those experiences made the ending obvious shortly after meeting Mark. The things we know about Mark from the first meeting are that they've had one adoption fall through and they're both really adamant about keeping this one and her not backing out. Already my alarm bells went up. What a strange detail to harp so much on. I mean I know adoption processes aren't reliable but narratively it's so emphasized. And then he shows Juno his guitars and they play songs and hang out without his wife. His wife's reaction is the first sign we have that Mark being alone with their adoptees is maybe riskier than we think. My first thought was that he had already tried to come onto the last candidate and she knew and was trying to prevent that, which would've made Vanessa an unlikeable character so I'm glad she was unaware. And we never get told that's why their last adoption fell through but part of me still believes Mark is why the last one fell through too. Then Mark and Juno end up alone. This is where my brain went "yup he's a pedo, he's gonna pull a move on Juno at some point and ruin everything for everyone." So from my perspective we were supposed to be increasingly more uncomfortable with Juno and Mark getting close. This shouldn't feel like it's crashing towards a romance, it feels like it's crashing towards assault. Juno cannot consent under any circumstances to Mark. She is underage and she's relying on them to take her kid. If something goes wrong it's her who ends up with all the consequences. That and Mark is cheating on his wife everytime he flirts with Juno. We are never at any point supposed to actually view this relationship as viable, it's always meant to be predatory. And that slow build is them showing you little by little just how gross of a person Mark is and how much Juno shouldn't let her kid be raised by HIM when at first she was pumped to have such a cool guy be the parent of her kid, for her kids sake. Its also her slowly realizing maybe he isn't the greatest coz it is from her perspective. Did she like some of the attention and support? Probably, coz most teenagers do, but he sees her leaning into his grooming and asks her to lean harder until inevitably, shocker, he's a pedo who's ruined his marriage and the adoption by trying to relive his glory days by screwing around with underage girls in a misguided mid life crisis. This movie does not feel surprising in the least to me when I watched it. Everything was always there and as an Afab person who's been in bad scenarios and has been taught my whole life how not to get assaulted, Mark was one big walking red flag from the moment she realized he wasn't a polo wearing suburban guy. Maybe it's cause I personally was groomed and assaulted in my life time. But Juno has no surprises, it wears all it's plot points on it's sleeve and hides it just about as well as Juno hides her feelings. She can try and convince us and herself she's not head over heels for Paulie and they won't inevitably be end game, but she slips so many times coz she's a kid and she can't keep up the charade forever. This movie works like Juno does and maybe the predictability depends on how well you can relate to Juno as a character, but none of this felt surprising on my first watch. So maybe it's me and maybe it's just that, as a man, you can't really put yourself in Juno's shoes as easily to realize just how dangerous the scenario is everytime shes alone with Mark.
Thanks for sharing. I don't want to bash the UA-camr, as it's just his opinion and I thought the video was good (outside of the Mark part). To me, the subtle change in Mark's clothing, becoming more and more informal throughout the movie, shows that he's trying to look younger to attract Juno instead of just being "himself" (ewww).
it's so crazy coming back to juno as an adult because you see every tiny little redflag from mark straight away, but when i watched it for the first time ( i was a bit younger than juno herself ) i didn't pick up on anything. i think that helped me appreciate the character a lot more since that naivety is so realistic.
The adoption failing is not ment to show that Mark tried to get with the previous mother (there is nothing to suggests this) but that he sabbotaged it because he does not want to be a dad but at the same time he does not want to confront Vanessa about this directly, similiar how it goes with Juno. The birth comes closer and closer and Mark still tries to pretend like nothing is going to happen and that all options are still open. He is not will to committ to it but at that stage was also not willing to break up with Vanessa. The interpretation that Mark had an inappropriate relationship with the previous mother also does not work because she probably was not underaged / there is nothing to suggests that she was. I agree that the Juno and Mark relation gets more inappropriate over time and that we are ment to notice it (same with Vanessa and Mark breaking up, even Juno and Beeker coming together is not some sort of supirse) but I do not think there is any basis of the previous adoption failing because of it.
Juno is my favorite movie of all time, I’ve watched it hundreds of times, and yet I never put together the nuance of Juno and Mark falling toward each other bc they’re what they thought they wanted and then realizing they’re wrong. This was excellent!
Maybe because i was very innocent while watching the movie i was around the same age as Juno but i mostly went through it through her perspective as a kid who just would want good parents for her baby and live my life since i could see her intentions were good since i was the same age and thought the same way not every girl thinks how you think we would but thats just me
I found your channel because of your Killing Eve analysis. I thoroughly enjoy your videos. PS: I have ADHD, and not once did I feel the need to speed up your videos to 1.5 like I normally would. I hope your channel blows up. I'm subbing
I watched Juno when I was a kid and I didn't realize how predatory Mark is til I rewatched the film as an adult. It seems so obvious now, but when I was a kid I was just as naive as Juno, and like her wanted to believe Mark and Vanessa were a perfect couple. Juno was just looking for a mentor figure in her life and only saw Mark as a friend. Thats why its so blindsiding to her when Mark starts to make a move on her and says he's leaving Vanessa.
I think that was a perfect move to make. We can easily tell early on if not immediately that Mark was not ready in the slightest, then when he and Juno have something in common he realizes that he doesn't want to grow up and wants someone more like Juno: Similar interests and understanding of what Mark wants . Juno was a kid, she had a little stupid crush on the "older cool guy," but knew it was wrong for him to feel that way about her and thought he just saw her as a friend. Then when Mark says he's leaving Vanessa, all his actions fit into place as having more sinister intentions. Which rightfully, grosses her out.
Oh! One other thing I wanted to mention is that I think a possibly under-discussed factor in Juno's mis-perception of Vanessa and Mark is socioeconomic class. Juno's family is blue collar, while Vanessa and Mark are obviously white collar. Mark even jokingly refers to them as "paranoid Yuppies," but that is literally how Juno views Vanessa at first. And for Juno, from a less privileged background, Mark and Vanessa's life is *aspirational*. Part of it is her own parents' divorce making her project a happy marriage onto Mark and Vanessa where there is none, but another part is her being dazzled by their wealth. You see that in the scene where she's wandering around in their house upstairs, marveling at their beautiful possessions. I think it's also part of what draws her to visit them over and over. She likes the idea of her child growing up in that kind of environment. But part of why she misses the cracks in their marriage is because she struggles to perceive the imperfections behind what she has culturally been led to believe is a "perfect" life.
While seeing this video, I must confess my constant reaction was "who the fuck ever thought Mark and Juno might've been together?!". I have always seen it as a fatherly relationship more than anything, or something like a brotherly relationship. They bonded, in a clash of generations that share interests but regards them differently. I always saw as Juno thinking that Mark could carry something of hers by their similarity to the baby, and she treasured that, in her teenage perspective of what makes a good parent. Still, it's been probably over a decade that I have seen the movie and I reminded myself that people interpret things very differently. It was nice to watch your analysis and it got me curious as to seeing this movie as an adult, rather than the teen I was when I saw it.
i loved that movie, i should watch it again. this is a great video, not just because all 4 points are really well explained without feeling dumbed down, but also you showed just enough clips to remind someone who hasn't seen the movie in years of what was happening. well done
10:23 it’s kinda made out like Vanessa is the bad guy who is mean to him- won’t let him do anything fun, is uptight and shoves all his interests in the closet. Doesn’t let him be himself… but then we kind of learn that it’s not just a her thing… he’s really not pulling his weight and he is immature and also… they are really not a good match.
I feel like at one point they were you see Vanessa wearing an Alice In Chains shirt to paint which shows a prior interest in rock that she doesn't have anymore. It seems like she grew up and he didnt
I fucking love Juno and I'm glad to see it get some love on youtube. For some reason it's been hip to hate on for years (I honestly don't understand why).
I thought the movie was in part a tragedy, ancient Greek-style - the breakup of Mark and Vanessa was inevitable, and obviously so, from the beginning. Kind of surprised that people found it surprising.
i watched this for the first time last night and the whole time from the guitar playing scene to the dancing scene i had my suspicions about mark and that he was going to be a creep. so when i he said “i’m leaving vanessa”, subconsciously i had a feeling something like that was going to happen (i think i was more expecting a kiss or something, thank god that didn’t happen) but it still took me by surprise. i think bc i didn’t want it to be true.
One thing I like about this story that probably influenced me a bit is how supportive Juno‘s family and especially her dad are. Family dysfunction is almost expected in movies and irl it‘s unfortunately common as well. As a result, it‘s something we almost expect, especially given she is a divorce child with an „intruding“ step-parent (often not great for kids. But here, too, „Juno“, subverts our expectations in a good way. And one that feels important: even though we know family can be not-so-great, Juno shows us that it isn’t always, without delegitimizing our own lived experiences. You don‘t have to become like your own parents; if you want to, you can become like Juno‘s dad.
I think Diablo also relies a lot on like, our cultural understanding of heterosexual marriage to make Vanessa and Mark’s divorce inveitable and surprising at the same time. We see it on tv and in real life all the time, disengaged childish husbands and wives who dont understand that their husband isn’t going to grow up. It’s the ‘old ball and chain’ and you’re so used to seeing couples like that stay together even though they shouldn’t, that is both surprising and inevitable when they break up.
We watched this movie in our religion class, and our teacher pointed out lots of things that were true, but he missed almost all the things you said in this video. I guess that’s because he wanted us to get a certain message. But it actually lead to me not liking the movie at all. Watching your video made me think again and look at it a different way.
The story about the fake necklace and the comparison that the element of surprise is what makes it good seems disingenuous. Because this is assuming that if the necklace was known to be fake from the start (thus removing the surprise),the writer didn’t make ANY changes to make it a good story. You might argue that the story would be less entertaining without the element of surprise, but it could still be written with dramatic irony as we watch her struggle, building up to the *inevitable* realization that the necklace is fake. This story still has merit. It’s not my problem that these are being portrayed as good story telling rules, but that they are necessary for eachother to function. I mean, this is the entire basis for dramatic irony and the numerous famous stories that have been written with it. Probably the most famous example is Romeo and Juliet. We basically know from the start that they’re both going to die, but we watch as it unfolds and a very elaborate series of events leads to their inevitable demise. Their death isn’t surprising but still feels rewarding, and I would be hard pressed to call Romeo and Juliet predictable (or, a not good story!) Please interpret this not as a critique of the video, as admittedly I haven’t finished it yet, but as a response to the quote and idea that was being introduced. That quote and diamond necklace comparison undermines what makes a good story.
I fucking love this level of discourse. honestly we can't put ourselves into the author's mind, but honestly this is still fucking great. literary theory at its finest.
I just discovered your channel on my recommended and I subscribed because I love your analysis, especially of one of my favorite movies of all time :))
I always liked reading the last pages of a book first, and then went to read from the start. I never quite knew why, but it's definitely a "predictable/inevitable" decision on if a book is worth a read. If the ending is good, the journey to get there. A 600 page romance novel ends in a break up. Wild, why tf did that take 600 pages? What did these characters have to go through to reach that situation? How many times did this happen before it ended their story? A spoiled ending shouldn't spoil a story
I do this too!!! Have you ever wondered that this might be because we want the comfort of knowing that the movie will end in a predictable way and that is a reflection of our own struggle for control?
Watching this movie as an adult, i dont understand the “vanessa seems like the bad guy until surprise mark!” Because the whole time i was just like “ugh mark what? Why would you say ‘we’re safe’” or just like generally thinking he was irresponsible and not treating his wife right
Honestly I found all of this painfully obvious, except the final "Im still in if you are". I didn't even notice there was an attempt at misdirection. I thought I was supposed to know what would happen from the beginning. Specially with Nark, it was so in your face, i really cant believe we weren't supposed to see it comint
I dug up this movie once when I had covid, it was a scratched DVD and didn't play. Really cool to see that it has layers of nuance though. I like that the title easily wraps up not only the movie's themes, but the thesis of the video. June is a good movie not because it is linear but because it upholds inevitability and surprise. Cool.
Fuckin love Juno. It was never your typical "teenager gets pregnant from unprotected sex and gives it away for adoption" type shi. I wanted to try explaining this in one of my film classes but I didn't manage to quite put it so articulately as this video!
I loved this analysis! I saw this movie when it first came out, and I was twenty-two. I was old enough to hear alarm bells ringing in my head over how Mark was treating Juno but young enough that I still liked his "cool, laid-back" attitude better than Vanessa's "uptight" one. And then there was that scene in the mall where Vanessa wants to feel the baby, and it just clicked in my head that, like, this woman LOVES this child without ever having met it. I loved the way that scene felt, especially from Juno's point of view as the person carrying the child who knew she couldn't raise it herself but still wanted the best possible life for it. It was brilliant acted, on both Jennifer Garner and Elliot Page's parts, and I think that's the moment I as an audience member started really rooting for Vanessa to get what she wanted and for Mark to go f*** himself. XD
Interesting point about inevitable + surprising, particularly in short stories. They don't have a lot of time to play with, so i think they often become predictable. I remember reading Arthur C. Clarke's 9 Billion Names of God in college, and telling my professor it was predictable. Of course it was, there was literally no other way for it to go, there were no other moving parts to the story, no way to do anything surprising. But i told him that, and his response was "no it's not"???? IDK what he was so insecure about, but watching this video has reminded me of it and how definitely right i was 😂 That being said, i feel like your characterization of Vanessa as an individual is not fully fleshed out, because she on her own fits the pattern too: Juno doesn't see her as the perfect mother for most of the movie, she sees her as a stuck-up, rigid, WASPy, killjoy. She's practically the enemy through the whole movie. I'd argue that the only reason Juno wants them to have the baby is because she thinks Mark is cool. The two of them even bond over disliking Vanessa! That "no, we're safe" line is a HUGE red flag about the way he thinks of his wife. That's why he thinks Juno would be cool about him leaving her. But the Vanessa story still fits in to the inevitable/surprising framework, because of course Vanessa was always going to be the baby's mother, but over time Juno's dislike of Vanessa makes us think that if Mark's not around, that's the end of the adoption. She's not giving the baby to someone boring who she doesn't like!!! Except, the baby doesn't need someone cool and fun if he's a coward who runs at the first sign of trouble; the baby needs someone responsible who's going to stick around no matter what.
So true, inevitability or rather the *_feeling_** of inevitability* can hit hard. Not many film analyses seem to talk about that? Examples that come to mind that feel inevitable are the endings of _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_ and of Nabokov's _Mary._
me watching as a teenager/young adult - oh mark and her are just friends, this is totally fine with context. me as an adult - "that man should NOT be befriending a young girl like that". I also didnt like Vanessa when I was young, and as an adult I feel so sorry for her.
I just came here after watching Juno for the first time at 22. I think this analysis is great but I felt from the first time we meet the couple that Mark is a mid life crisis weird dude that will eventually hit on Juno ( a teen, ew) and Vanessa is a mature woman who couldn't wait to be a mother. Everything in Vanessa's life needs to be perfect because she wishes to have a picture perfect environment for her and her family. The only thing I didn't expect in the movie was for Vanessa to adopt the kid anyways. I didn't know who Juno was gonna give the child to but I'm glad it was her. Everyone is happy in the end except Mark who is gonna soon get hit by a big reality check and he deserves it. I hate the guy.
always been in my top fav films. i was thinking of jennifer’s body for a moment too with some of these factors then remembered it was also written by diablo cody. :-) the surprising but inevitable thing reminds me of the end of dexter new blood. i’m sure the existence of that sequel had plenty of mixed feelings but it ended precisely as it should’ve, yet i didn’t predict it at the beginning. just another thing that hits for me
I just love this movie so much. It's strange, because I have pretty extreme tokophobia (fear of pregnancy), that means that I usually avoid movies with pregnancy as a core topic like the plague, but this movie is just so unique and so human.
I’ve played guitar my whole life, my dad played since he was like 5th grade (1964). The first time I watch this movie, I was in college & the Les Paul scene comes up & they talk about how the neck broke off of it & my dad said “THAT HAPPENED TO MY 1970 Gibson Les Paul Recording Model!!” And the 1970 Les Paul Recording Model was LES PAUL’s Les Paul…it was designed to be plugged directly into a Studio Board, and the electronics on it were crazy; low impedance pickups, more switches than a Fender Jaguar & Fender Mustang put together _(not to be confused with the Fender JagStang; Kurt Cobain’s creation, which _*_LITERALLY_*_ put the Jaguar & Mustang together)_
I’m not sure if this changes the way people see the plot, but being a woman watching the film, Mark was always a huge red flag. It still manages to misdirect the viewer, but there were seeds planted throughout
I was in middle school when this movie came out and I always saw Mark as a horribly skeevy creep from very early in the film. The fact so many other comments here are people in my age range who didn't see anything off about Mark and Juno's relationship until they got older, or knew there was something off but didn't know why, is truly a shining example of why we desperately need more comprehensive sex ed starting in elementary school.
My favorite touch in the Mark/Vanessa dynamic is her Alice In Chains shirt in the scene where she’s painting the baby room. Either it’s his shirt and she thinks so little of it that she paints in it, or it’s her old shirt that she now uses as a chore shirt. She’s evolved either way. And there’s literally a baby yellow streak right across it, showing how much that takes priority over the band she may have once bonded with him over.
And if it IS her shirt, it shows that she is a real person with interests and a personality, too, but her dynamic with her husband and desire to have a full life with a participating partner has turned her into the mean mommy shrew wife in everyone's eyes. That's also why I like the scene in the mall, because she isn't with her husband there, and Juno realizes how little she actually knows her out of context.
THIS. I always noticed that, from the first time I watched Juno. I couldn’t have summed up the genius symbolism any better.
Ooooh you're good!
What a cool analysis, I've never noticed that!
Wow, I never noticed that! I'm shook!
I personally interpreted it as Juno truly seeing Mark as a friend (in her odd ways) and never understanding the depth of how weird it actually was. She was young and because she wanted Mark and Vanessa to be deeply in love for the baby's sake, she never thought he'd like her as she liked him..because she thought he was devoted to his wife. I think that's why the second he makes his move saying he wants to leave Vanessa, Juno is disgusted and angry.
The movie is far more complex then most give/gave it credit for. I'm glad you pointed that out. Surprisingly it still kinda holds up today! Page and Cara had perfect chemistry imo
exactly! this is precisely how i interpreted it, too
Exactly. Women who have been through it. Understand that this is how grooming works. And what Mark was doing is how many older men get too close to young women. Thats why its called GROOMING. It's a process of normalizing behaviors bit by bit until a line is crossed But because you are eased into that point slowly and over time by normalizing one thing after the other. You don't necessarily realize how messed up it is.
It wasn't put in just for a misdirect and it didn't develop that way just for a misdirect. I remember watching this when I was in high school and Feeling that tension of wondering, if mark was going to be a good normal guy or if something was weird. And not being able to put my finger on it.
They absolutely nailed that experience as a young girl.
Yes. I had this happen to me when I was in my late teens. It's so devastating when it happens, and I've always found it interesting that most women always picked up on this when seeing the film, but most men seem blindsided.
@@lauralouwhoooAlso the experience as a young boy or maybe young nonbinary or whatever they see themselves at the time. Since they are still discovering themselves.
@@moxxibekkNo no no it’s not most men but there are definitely some men and some women, and honestly some People who are blindsided by it which is either concerning in a “Hopefully you aren’t a victim” or a concerning “I hope you’re not doing this” it could be a number of things to be honest. Much like how many people thought killing stalking was romantic…and honestly a lot of those “romance” books/movies/shows. That they think is romantic. Some thinking they want a relationship like that others only liking it in fiction (thank goodness) and or for a different reason. Nowadays though more people are well more aware how unhealthy and or predatory those relationships are.
This is when you truly realize the brilliance of a film, when it can be broken down and analyzed and come out MORE brilliant than you remember.
These tricks were not seen as impressive. It was considered a brilliant movie when it came out because of the subject matter for about a month until we all realized it's really just an after school special with cussing.
@@theprecipiceofreason Sorry? "An after-school special with cussing?"
I thought it was cute Vanessa was in an Alice in Chains tee shirt when they did the nursery because they had a common interest, but now I realize how clever this costuming choice was. She's wearing one of his tee shirts for painting because it's NOT important to her. Interesting.
That is very interesting
nice catch, fr.
I always felt like it was hers. The things that still define mark, who refuses to grow up, used to define Vanessa too. She just made the decision to move forward with her life and be a responsible adult. I painted my kids' nursery while wearing a high school drama production tshirt from when I thought I'd be the next Idina Menzel. I, like Vanessa, grew up. Luckily, so did my husband.
@@Lucy-vx2lsI agree I think it's her shirt from earlier on in the relationship. I always assumed that they've been together for a while; They're married, they have a nice house and they've been through fertility struggles and at least one prior adoption that fell through. They probably started out quite similar with a lot of shared interests. As they grew older Vanessa matured and grew as a person and Mark didn't. Which caused her to have to be the serious one who seemed boring and "not fun" to Juno.
Its a woman's size its her shirt
Something I appreciate a lot about this movie is the way it makes you see Vanessa as the "bad guy" until you realise that actually Mark is. Watching it with a 2007 perspective, or the perspective of a teen/tween, you really think it's cool to be like Mark and that Vanessa is just being too uptight and she needs to find her chill.... honestly I think Juno was the beginning of my generation pushing against the caretaker woman and the childish husband trope.
It was beautiful when you saw Vanessa get the baby, because you knew she was very capable, what you read as uptight in the beginning was responsibility and you knew 100 she was going to be a good mom. Fun is nice, but you want someone you can count on, and that means someone who isn’t only out for themselves like Mark.
I don't agree that anyone was the "bad guy", I think it was just trying to show that they had different priorities, and what would complete Vanessa as a person isn't what would complete Mark.
I mean, Mark was literally grooming Juno, a child, so I think it’s pretty safe to say he was a bad guy :/
I had this revelation watching it again with 'adult eyes'
Juno was the bad guy.
Each time Juno presses a limit with Bateman she believes it's a line he won't cross. Because in her mind the married couple have been ingrained to be a strong family for her baby, he doesn't rings alarm bells for her. I remember occasions in my teens while babysitting and talking to somewhat non-lame dads who would let me flip through their records, borrow books I liked, take too much time driving me home. These coupled with grown adults reminding you about your old soul and being wise beyond your years- can all really be a confusing recipe for disaster. And an adult knows what they're doing, the teen is emotionally twisted. In the end the adult is with that minor and they have to work on those boundaries that can prevent a curious kid from getting hurt
How about just don't date and talk to your kids honestly.
This isnt insightful but your comment reminded me of one time where I was babysitting and the dad came home while the kids were eating at the table and i was sitting with them. Normally his wife came first and bustled in, asked about their homework and paid me. He just sat at the table with us and commented that we were 'like a family' and he'd swapped his wife for a 'ypunger model'. He was already a good bit older than wife and said that right in front of his kids.
@@is-yn6jf Jesus that's so messed up. I'd say these comments have opened my eyes to messed up babysitter dynamics, but then again I used to babysit a kid whose older sister had a crush on me, so I guess I kinda knew that already!
This makes me so glad I have more self awareness then most men. I think this movie shows how men can get caught up in thinking a young girl is more then she is, and foolishly believe that there is nothing wrong with dating a younger girl. Some men target young girls intentionally because their easy to manipulate, but a lot of men aren't trying to be creeps. They instead use denial and fool themselves into believing that they are doing nothing wrong, or even something good. This can be even more dangeious, because I think it happens far more often. Even good men can become immoral and dangerous, if they lack self awareness.
Marc's outfit choices in the scenes are a perfect mirror of his changing attitude towards Juno and another subtle way we are being manipulated into thinking that they are getting closer. First, he's like a male version of Vanessa, only slightly removed from the dressed-in-all-white- framed couple pictures on the wall of the staircase. When they meet next he's still wearing a shirt but it's more casual and checkered- just as Juno's often are. In the last scene he's wearing some sort of band-shirt which makes him look significantly younger.
This is great video, but I think you should have mentioned that audience expectations played a huge part, due to established tropes. This is most significant in the Vanessa/Mark storyline. Sitcoms and movies have been based around the premise of "gorgeous, responsible woman puts up with her slovenly man-child of a husband" for so long that not only does it feel completely normal to see it in a movie, it's considered incredibly normal in real-life relationships. We didn't see their divorce coming, because that's never it ends.
I love this point SO MUCH.
Great take!
I think this is because people get married way too young, men just don't learn to take care of themselves before getting "a new mom". Plus the fact that getting a divorce is annoying and complicated and you're used to it so you put it off. Marriage is kind of a cultural trap.
@@nabis2424 all of society is set up to let them remain children, emotionally stunted children. And when mature women with careers just don't need that anymore to survive and can afford to set a higher standard, they (collectively) freak out. There's articles now about the crisis for young men, because young women require someone who can hold a conversation and has emotional intelligence, will do equal chores. Basic things! Basic Adulting.
so true, this is such a romcom standard!
I watched Juno in middle school when it was released. I rewatched it as an adult a few years ago and the perspective change was UNREAL. I went from seeing it as a naive but grown feeling teenaged girl to an actually grown adult woman. And the movie held up!
What was your perspective of the movie as a teenager? Or how did your view of our change?
@@lydiademarek when I was watching this movie for the first time I was 13. I wanted her to be with Jason Bateman’s character because I was naive and didn’t know any better. I thought Juno was mature and cool. As an adult who’s been in a marriage and has children, I watch and see Juno’s immaturity and that she’s still learning who she is. Certain lines, like when she’s talking about music before she was born as if she was there, are cringy in a realistic way you’d get talking to a teen. You can see the strain in the adopted couple’s marriage immediately with the meeting from the lawyer and aren’t as blindsided as a 13 year old girl seeing them split. It’s all about perspective.
felt the same way for 500 days of summer.
This film came out right after I turned 13 and rewatching it throughout the years as I’ve grown and matured REALLY shines a light on Mark’s grooming tendencies and how munch of a loser he actually is. Teenagers love seeing adults that have the same “cool” interests as them and think adults that “sell out” for stability are lame, so it’s no wonder Juno gravitates towards Mark. However, that really powerful argument scene with Mark and Vanessa which really tackles the core of their dysfunctional marriage is something most teenagers aren’t mature enough to fully understand (Juno even says to her dad, “I’ve just been out dealing with things way beyond my maturity level”). I also love that Juno recognizes that just because you like cool shit doesn’t mean you’re a good, responsible adult, and that she can see that Vanessa is truly fit to be a mother, so she continues through with the plan to give Vanessa the child she’s always wanted.
God, I love this movie.
Is wife home
No we're safe OMG WHY DIDNT I HEAR THAT BEFORE
I don't know how old you were when you first saw it but I was a teenager. Hearing that mischievous kind of thing from a friend or from a trusted adult as a joke comes off a different way to you when you are naive/innocent.
It went right over my head too. Like juno I thought this guy might be cool and maybe a little lazy but never that he was a gd creep. But he was. Ew.
Yeppp. Such clever and subtle writing in two little words. @@lauralouwhooo
Any adult man wanting to be a teenager is a huge red flag. I always felt bad for his wife as she was basically already his mother. I'm glad she got her baby in the end, she'll be a good mom, she just didn't have an equal as a partner.
YES! I mean, people can live the lives they want, but when anybody is living a lie in their relationship, they need to really fix it up or pack it up.
I would have more sympathy for him hypothetically if he came clean to her months ago and said “I’m not going to give you the life you want, and I’m not living the life I want. It’s not your fault”, and then bounced.
But this guy is just coasting while trying to relive the past. Real people do have to suck it up and take the paycheck, and bloom into the next stage. It’s the hard truth of adulting
in the end she exchanged one child for another
@@rayesafan9628 0:46 💛
@@reflectingPastChoices yeah but a newborn has at least the potential to grow up, other than this man baby ;-)
@vyhozshu lol speak for yourself
🥺🥺 I'd completely forgot about Pauly holding Juno in the hospital bed. It's very sweet.
I usually hate movies about pregnancy, but this is one of my favorite movies ever. Diablo Cody is a genius.
The Snapper is also a good one
another clever thing about the mark/juno thing is that teenage girls being into older men gets brought up several times earlier in the movie, in particular with the popular girls being into their teacher
I think the stepmother narrative is played on really well too.
I also feel like an important part in the divorce surprise is not knowing when it’s going to happen. Yes, you can see that these people aren’t meant to be, but are they going to figure that out before they adopt a child? Knowing that there’s a bomb but it never seeming to go off is unnerving and the thought that they may figure it out after the point of no return is scary.
I’m late but anyone else mentioned that the reason Juno tries not to get close to Michael Cera is because of his parents divorce. It’s also why she was so mad at mark at the end, because to her they seemed to be perfect and would be together forever. And it shattered her illusion of what she subconsciously wished. She doesn’t want to get attached because someone she loved already abandoned her aka her mom.
Wow I never even considered that but great point.
I studied this film for the equivalent of my final year high school English exam in Ireland. At the time I thought it was because whoever sets the curriculum was trying to be relevant and cool, but as I studied it, I came to realise what a fantastic story and movie it was. I've really enjoyed re-watching it over the years, it never gets old. Not to mention, watching it as a teenager, then a college student, then as an adult in a relationship, it's been so rewarding.
Not to mention, the soundtrack is absolutely perfect.
Great video!
Juno just wanted a mentor, not a boyfriend.
You mean from Mark, right?
And she wanted to think he’d be a good and fun dad, but that was turned on its head when he showed the wrong kind of interest.
When I first watched the movie I didn't pick up on the "romance" aspect of their relationship at all. Maybe I need to watch it again, but I think this video is off on that point. The would-be adoptive father is starved of contact with anyone who shares his interests. He's just a nerd who found another nerd. If Juno had been a boy nobody would have seen their relationship as romantic.
@@98Zai But for the sake of the film, Page was playing a girl. And lots of women do pick up on the subtext that Mark has an interest in Juno. It's not "romance." It's creepy. Juno doesn't see what's happening from that angle because the primary concern is that these two adults are a stable and loving home for the child Juno will be giving them. Mark will be a "cool dad" to that baby from Juno's perspective. From Mark's perspective.. I guess it's okay to groom teens? Idk, I can't put myself in the mindset of a pedo.
@@fckoff321 Like I said, I don't see that at all. Maybe you have some bad experiences that makes you think that?
Something i trally love about Juno, in the aspect of misdirection, is that there have been time and aain storylines of people who in the end decide to keep the baby and somehoe mature 20+ gears in the matter of a few weeks. Not Juno, they didnt hold back that Juno was not ready to be a mom and she made no inclination that she wanted to keep the child except birth/post birth crying in her bed but that was her true growing up moment. Juno keeping the baby would honestly be the worst outcome
It might be the worst outcome storywise but when I first watched the movie it was really puzzling to me why she wouldn’t just keep her child, especially under her circumstances. I understand she’s young and immature, but she gets to a really good and loving place with the baby’s father and has a solid safety net (her dad and stepmom - how could they just give away their grandson?) I’m a mum of three and would take care of any of my children’s babies in a heartbeat if a pregnancy occurred before they felt ready. Whenever possible, I think children should be brought up within their own family (an aunt/uncle, grandmother…). These stories often center around the mother-to-be and the family wishing to adopt, but in real life we must also think of the child who never gets to meet his/her family and know his/her roots until already grown-up? If Juno had lived in a toxic environment I would totally get it, but the context the movie provides makes the outcome feel so strange to me? I wonder how this story would’ve played out narrating it from the baby’s point of view. “Yeah, my mum gave me up for adoption, then got together with my dad, they got married and had two kids, so I have two siblings that I only met when I was 20 and was able to get in touch with them. Meanwhile I was raised by a divorced single mum." 😅
In addition to subverting the audience's expectations through the perspective of Juno, I think the movie also manages to use the audiences expectations of a movie to misdirect. Most movie viewers expect drastic changes and twists because that is what we are used to through the lens of film. "Juno" reminds us of the mundane predictability of real life that we forget about while watching a movie.
love this reply, this is great summary of what the film does
I got a lot out of this movie as a kid, even though I was about 10 years old when I first saw it. It taught me the consequences of unprotected (and poorly planned) sex, that it isn’t always the end of the world if you do get pregnant, and it also taught me to be wary of “mature” men like Mark and not to overlook “losers” like Paulie just because they aren’t the perfect image of your dream man. But most importantly, when Juno chooses to side with Vanessa over Mark, it showed me that you CAN prioritize the happiness of people other than a romantic prospect, and the power there is in doing so. Her decision to keep her promise to Vanessa was the first instance of true female solidarity that I had ever seen in media, and it was portrayed so well and with such care. I haven’t seen the film in almost a decade, but I remember the moment when Vanessa gets to hold her baby for the first time . How, after all of the grief she’d suffered throughout the film, she came out happier than she’d dreamed she could be thanks to Juno’s strength of character.
This was one of my favorite movies in middle school but something i never noticed until i was an adult: the hint that Mark has done this before. When Juno comes back upstairs crying, and then Mark follows behind her, the very first thing Vanessa does is look at Mark and say “What did you do?”. Like she already knew. Juno is told early on that Mark and Vanessa had an arrangement for adoption some time before Juno contacted them, but that the mom got “cold feet”. Good chance Mark sabotaged that too
You're totally right!
I always thought Juno saw on Mark a cool dad for her kid. She couldn’t relate to Vanessa but respected her, with Mark she was excited of the idea of him as a father for her child.
I was pretty close to the character of Juno's age when the film actually came out, and this analysis tracks. A teenager wouldn't pick up on all of those clues right away or wouldn't be aware that taking something for granted would not work out in the long run.
I'm not artistic, I miss so much. When you explain it... I want to say 'rationally' or even 'scientifically', it helps me so much... thank you. When he agreed he wanted to be a father at around 11:00, I was amazed that his acting even incorporated the unconscious human reaction to shake one's head at the same time they are agreeing (and lying)... our bodies do not want to lie.
I never realized how deep this movie was, Diablo Cody really is a genius.
When I watched the movie for the first time we attribute someone who is knocked up at a young age to be a bit stupid. But why I liked Juno was how mature she was with what she wanted in life and how she was able to identify someone who is good. I struggle to identify people who are good and I am in my thirties. So I felt this movie challenged a lot of existing tropes in movies.
I’m glad I decided to rewatch the movie before I continued this vid. It still holds up, killer soundtrack, and a great snapshot taken from a time right before cellphones and personal computers.
As many others have said, to experience this movie again now as an adult and no longer a teen, our perspective changes so much. I was just as naive as Juno was about Mark, as an adult you see the situations so differently.
So thanks for making me watch Juno again, it was a nostalgic trip down memory lane.
everyone was perfectly cast in this movie. jason bateman though was so perfect for mark because he’s brilliant at the fake passion 😭 after seeing the film once then everytime i watched it after i just died at him saying “yeahhh..,you betcha.” about wanting to be a dad lmao. ugh i love this movie, such a good comfort film taking me back to my old 70s style house as a tween in 2007 on my green couch. watching this was one of my versions of “dealing with things way beyond my maturity level” as juno says!
My parents were both educators so I feel like I saw this from a different lenses than most. I remember going to see this in theaters with my mom in high school and being immediately so icked out by Mark. We had some teachers in our school district that acted that way, and it always rubbed me the wrong way when my friends would talk about wanting to flirt with them/enjoying the personal attention. Turns out the main teacher I always had a weird feeling about was sexting the softball team girls he COACHED. He was married and has a two year old. Idk, the scenes with Mark in Juno always hit close to home for me. Communities love to overlook men like Mark and pretend they are not predators because they’re charming and educated.
I've worked with teens, and as a guy it is a balancing act between being friendly and inappropriate, but it's really not that hard to do it properly if your intentions are good. If a teacher gives you a weird feeling, he's probably enjoying it a little too much.
I got the ick from Mark as well the first time I watched it. I think the writer and actor managed to keep it just about on the right side, but definitely uncomfortable to watch.
This video deserves FAR, FAR more views. Fabulous work
To reinforce the clothing frame, when Vanessa is painting, she's wearing an Alice In Chains shirt.
I took it as a not-so-subtle nod to how she feels about his love for music, as a dirty work shirt she's not unwilling to get paint on.
I always thought it was HER shirt she’d outgrown. I couldn’t see Mark being cool with her trashing one of his band t shirts.
I think it’s a nod to how they ended up together, they used to be similar people. But now she’s evolved and he hasn’t.
I love how much effort you put into your videos! Your analyses are always so in depth its amazing!
THX!! 🙏
Hot take, but I felt what happened was pretty obvious? Like I saw it coming and I was IMMEDIATELY super suspicious of Mark.
The thing is, it’s all in the cinematography. The camera gives a lot away, and if you come at it from the perspective of “the director chose to do it this way.. why?” It really makes things clear.
None of that, however, stopped me from bawling my eyes out at the end of the movie. 😓👏🏻
It's definitely weird that the dude didn't mention that Mark is super creepy and the core facet of the "building relationship" is the horror of this man-child exploiting a vulnerable teenager.
@@seigeengineThis is the first time I've even heard of this movie, and I'm only about two minutes in.
Even I could tell that the guy was shady as hell from just the line about him (and only him, not both him and his wife) getting close to the pregnant sixteen year old.
I wouldn't say it's about the cinematography. The "good man" slot had already been filled by JK Simmons' character so the rest must be inefectual or villainous
@@mattwayne9128 I too love having opinions about things I don't actually watch.
@SizzlingVibe By any chance, are you a woman? I'm a woman and it was obvious to me, but it caught my husband off guard. I'm wondering if that comes down to the difference between how men and women read words and body language.
Something I noticed in the movie I watch again just a couple days ago. How smart and reasonable for her age while still being incredibly immature. She often jokes about the baby like its no big deal, or how things will go back to normal "like nothing ever happened." When shes told the seriousness of hanging out with an adult married man alone she has no understanding of it and just thinks her step mom doesn't trust her or he wouldn’t want to "hang out" with a teenager. Even when Juno notices little looks and flirts she either blows them off or it makes her feel special instead of weary because an older cool guy is "into" her. Its why she ends up confiding in him and coming to him more often, it especially shows how incredibly vaunerble she is. She takes his praise probably even more than she would another time because she states herself that most people stare at her and avoid her like the plauge at school so to still feel attracted to must feel nice. This leaves her in a postion to basically say and do whatever he wants. He shows her a very sexualized comic of a teenage super hero and says its "his favorite". And openly tells her doubts about Vanessa. The thing that made me realize more than anything the damage he already done. Is when shes walking out crying before Juno can talk he keep insisting "its nothing RIGHT Juno?" And she can't even look at him because she now feels in a postion that its her fault.
K, so I've actually watched the video now, and I'm glad to see everyone's favorite short story making it back into another one of your videos
I didn't know it was everyone's favorite short story :-) Go Mathilde!
juno deserves so much credit, one of my favourite movies. this video is great!
Well told stories don't need to be mysterious. They just need to be well told, which Juno is. Inevitability is just a place holder for feeling realistic, given the constraints of the world as it was presented to us. The tools for giving us those constraints are story telling: foreshadowing, theme, language, perspective.
One character I never really hear people talk about is Juno's stepmother. It was my father who pointed out to me, that at first, they kind of present her as a character that isn't all that great, until the sonogram scene happens, and she defends her so hard. (It has been many years since I've seen it, so forgive me that I don't remember the details of how they originally presented the stepmom.)
You're right. She doesn't get a lot of attention. But she knows what's up. She also tells Juno to stay away from Mark.
Been wanting to watch Juno for a while now. I guess this is a sign. Cool video 👍
I feel like none of these are surprises unless your a man who's never had to deal with predatory men a day in your life. I dunno, but your reading of Juno and Mark's relationship feels like a gross misunderstanding of the intent behind their relationship. And that's not an insult to you, that's just me saying your personal experience created a blinder where for others (mainly AFAB people) those experiences made the ending obvious shortly after meeting Mark.
The things we know about Mark from the first meeting are that they've had one adoption fall through and they're both really adamant about keeping this one and her not backing out. Already my alarm bells went up. What a strange detail to harp so much on. I mean I know adoption processes aren't reliable but narratively it's so emphasized. And then he shows Juno his guitars and they play songs and hang out without his wife. His wife's reaction is the first sign we have that Mark being alone with their adoptees is maybe riskier than we think. My first thought was that he had already tried to come onto the last candidate and she knew and was trying to prevent that, which would've made Vanessa an unlikeable character so I'm glad she was unaware. And we never get told that's why their last adoption fell through but part of me still believes Mark is why the last one fell through too.
Then Mark and Juno end up alone. This is where my brain went "yup he's a pedo, he's gonna pull a move on Juno at some point and ruin everything for everyone."
So from my perspective we were supposed to be increasingly more uncomfortable with Juno and Mark getting close. This shouldn't feel like it's crashing towards a romance, it feels like it's crashing towards assault. Juno cannot consent under any circumstances to Mark. She is underage and she's relying on them to take her kid. If something goes wrong it's her who ends up with all the consequences. That and Mark is cheating on his wife everytime he flirts with Juno. We are never at any point supposed to actually view this relationship as viable, it's always meant to be predatory. And that slow build is them showing you little by little just how gross of a person Mark is and how much Juno shouldn't let her kid be raised by HIM when at first she was pumped to have such a cool guy be the parent of her kid, for her kids sake. Its also her slowly realizing maybe he isn't the greatest coz it is from her perspective. Did she like some of the attention and support? Probably, coz most teenagers do, but he sees her leaning into his grooming and asks her to lean harder until inevitably, shocker, he's a pedo who's ruined his marriage and the adoption by trying to relive his glory days by screwing around with underage girls in a misguided mid life crisis.
This movie does not feel surprising in the least to me when I watched it. Everything was always there and as an Afab person who's been in bad scenarios and has been taught my whole life how not to get assaulted, Mark was one big walking red flag from the moment she realized he wasn't a polo wearing suburban guy.
Maybe it's cause I personally was groomed and assaulted in my life time. But Juno has no surprises, it wears all it's plot points on it's sleeve and hides it just about as well as Juno hides her feelings. She can try and convince us and herself she's not head over heels for Paulie and they won't inevitably be end game, but she slips so many times coz she's a kid and she can't keep up the charade forever.
This movie works like Juno does and maybe the predictability depends on how well you can relate to Juno as a character, but none of this felt surprising on my first watch. So maybe it's me and maybe it's just that, as a man, you can't really put yourself in Juno's shoes as easily to realize just how dangerous the scenario is everytime shes alone with Mark.
Thanks for sharing. I don't want to bash the UA-camr, as it's just his opinion and I thought the video was good (outside of the Mark part). To me, the subtle change in Mark's clothing, becoming more and more informal throughout the movie, shows that he's trying to look younger to attract Juno instead of just being "himself" (ewww).
EXACTLYYYY
I was thinking the exact same thing!!!
it's so crazy coming back to juno as an adult because you see every tiny little redflag from mark straight away, but when i watched it for the first time ( i was a bit younger than juno herself ) i didn't pick up on anything. i think that helped me appreciate the character a lot more since that naivety is so realistic.
The adoption failing is not ment to show that Mark tried to get with the previous mother (there is nothing to suggests this) but that he sabbotaged it because he does not want to be a dad but at the same time he does not want to confront Vanessa about this directly, similiar how it goes with Juno. The birth comes closer and closer and Mark still tries to pretend like nothing is going to happen and that all options are still open. He is not will to committ to it but at that stage was also not willing to break up with Vanessa.
The interpretation that Mark had an inappropriate relationship with the previous mother also does not work because she probably was not underaged / there is nothing to suggests that she was. I agree that the Juno and Mark relation gets more inappropriate over time and that we are ment to notice it (same with Vanessa and Mark breaking up, even Juno and Beeker coming together is not some sort of supirse) but I do not think there is any basis of the previous adoption failing because of it.
Juno is my favorite movie of all time, I’ve watched it hundreds of times, and yet I never put together the nuance of Juno and Mark falling toward each other bc they’re what they thought they wanted and then realizing they’re wrong. This was excellent!
Maybe because i was very innocent while watching the movie i was around the same age as Juno but i mostly went through it through her perspective as a kid who just would want good parents for her baby and live my life since i could see her intentions were good since i was the same age and thought the same way not every girl thinks how you think we would but thats just me
I found your channel because of your Killing Eve analysis. I thoroughly enjoy your videos.
PS: I have ADHD, and not once did I feel the need to speed up your videos to 1.5 like I normally would. I hope your channel blows up. I'm subbing
As a fellow ADHDer I take that as a massive complement. TY!
Is that an ADHD thing? I watch loads of videos on 2x 😅
@@loocyfer-8098 it's an ADHD thing - can concur
This is how you get a subscriber, not by asking for it but by making great content. i'd want to know what you come up with next
🙏!!!
Here I am again Dave! Back at it again with the great video I see! You always make your topics so interesting!
well done , I love this analysis. I truly didn't understand why I didn't see the ending coming.
I watched Juno when I was a kid and I didn't realize how predatory Mark is til I rewatched the film as an adult. It seems so obvious now, but when I was a kid I was just as naive as Juno, and like her wanted to believe Mark and Vanessa were a perfect couple. Juno was just looking for a mentor figure in her life and only saw Mark as a friend. Thats why its so blindsiding to her when Mark starts to make a move on her and says he's leaving Vanessa.
I think that was a perfect move to make. We can easily tell early on if not immediately that Mark was not ready in the slightest, then when he and Juno have something in common he realizes that he doesn't want to grow up and wants someone more like Juno: Similar interests and understanding of what Mark wants
. Juno was a kid, she had a little stupid crush on the "older cool guy," but knew it was wrong for him to feel that way about her and thought he just saw her as a friend. Then when Mark says he's leaving Vanessa, all his actions fit into place as having more sinister intentions. Which rightfully, grosses her out.
did people watch this movie and not immediately pick up on how weird mark was? the entire time he had me totally icked out.
When I first saw it I was 15/16 and didn't really notice but when I rewatched it as an adult it was a totally different experience
How old were you when you first saw it? A lot of kids and teens are scarily oblivious and naive when it comes to these things.
Oh! One other thing I wanted to mention is that I think a possibly under-discussed factor in Juno's mis-perception of Vanessa and Mark is socioeconomic class. Juno's family is blue collar, while Vanessa and Mark are obviously white collar. Mark even jokingly refers to them as "paranoid Yuppies," but that is literally how Juno views Vanessa at first. And for Juno, from a less privileged background, Mark and Vanessa's life is *aspirational*. Part of it is her own parents' divorce making her project a happy marriage onto Mark and Vanessa where there is none, but another part is her being dazzled by their wealth. You see that in the scene where she's wandering around in their house upstairs, marveling at their beautiful possessions. I think it's also part of what draws her to visit them over and over. She likes the idea of her child growing up in that kind of environment. But part of why she misses the cracks in their marriage is because she struggles to perceive the imperfections behind what she has culturally been led to believe is a "perfect" life.
While seeing this video, I must confess my constant reaction was "who the fuck ever thought Mark and Juno might've been together?!". I have always seen it as a fatherly relationship more than anything, or something like a brotherly relationship. They bonded, in a clash of generations that share interests but regards them differently. I always saw as Juno thinking that Mark could carry something of hers by their similarity to the baby, and she treasured that, in her teenage perspective of what makes a good parent.
Still, it's been probably over a decade that I have seen the movie and I reminded myself that people interpret things very differently. It was nice to watch your analysis and it got me curious as to seeing this movie as an adult, rather than the teen I was when I saw it.
i loved that movie, i should watch it again. this is a great video, not just because all 4 points are really well explained without feeling dumbed down, but also you showed just enough clips to remind someone who hasn't seen the movie in years of what was happening.
well done
10:23 it’s kinda made out like Vanessa is the bad guy who is mean to him- won’t let him do anything fun, is uptight and shoves all his interests in the closet. Doesn’t let him be himself… but then we kind of learn that it’s not just a her thing… he’s really not pulling his weight and he is immature and also… they are really not a good match.
I feel like at one point they were you see Vanessa wearing an Alice In Chains shirt to paint which shows a prior interest in rock that she doesn't have anymore. It seems like she grew up and he didnt
I fucking love Juno and I'm glad to see it get some love on youtube. For some reason it's been hip to hate on for years (I honestly don't understand why).
I never got that either.
Most movies that receive any attention will also have their detractors. If only the people who are doing it to get their own attention.
I thought the movie was in part a tragedy, ancient Greek-style - the breakup of Mark and Vanessa was inevitable, and obviously so, from the beginning. Kind of surprised that people found it surprising.
I was distracted by wanting that grown man to get away from that child and thinking he should get hard candy treatment
People in media very rarely get divorced, no matter how bad their relationship is. Basically nobody would expect them to.
@@bookshelfhoney Can you pedo-lovers stop spamming everything? Thanks.
Every comment doesn't need fifteen of you jerking it in the corner.
@@bookshelfhoney lmao same
You slayed this my good sir, I really enjoyed getting a different perspective. Keep doing your thing!!!!
🙏
i watched this for the first time last night and the whole time from the guitar playing scene to the dancing scene i had my suspicions about mark and that he was going to be a creep. so when i he said “i’m leaving vanessa”, subconsciously i had a feeling something like that was going to happen (i think i was more expecting a kiss or something, thank god that didn’t happen) but it still took me by surprise. i think bc i didn’t want it to be true.
One thing I like about this story that probably influenced me a bit is how supportive Juno‘s family and especially her dad are.
Family dysfunction is almost expected in movies and irl it‘s unfortunately common as well. As a result, it‘s something we almost expect, especially given she is a divorce child with an „intruding“ step-parent (often not great for kids. But here, too, „Juno“, subverts our expectations in a good way. And one that feels important: even though we know family can be not-so-great, Juno shows us that it isn’t always, without delegitimizing our own lived experiences.
You don‘t have to become like your own parents; if you want to, you can become like Juno‘s dad.
Juno has always been my favorite movie, i can watch it like every month and not get bored of it. Really happy toi have stumble into your video!
Something I have yet to see someone comment on , is that it is implied that Mark had the mother before Juno change her mind
I think Diablo also relies a lot on like, our cultural understanding of heterosexual marriage to make Vanessa and Mark’s divorce inveitable and surprising at the same time. We see it on tv and in real life all the time, disengaged childish husbands and wives who dont understand that their husband isn’t going to grow up. It’s the ‘old ball and chain’ and you’re so used to seeing couples like that stay together even though they shouldn’t, that is both surprising and inevitable when they break up.
We watched this movie in our religion class, and our teacher pointed out lots of things that were true, but he missed almost all the things you said in this video. I guess that’s because he wanted us to get a certain message. But it actually lead to me not liking the movie at all. Watching your video made me think again and look at it a different way.
Wow I wouldn't have thought of this as movie to watch in religion class. That's interesting. THX
@@davescripted3796
It's one of the best pro life movies ever made, particularly since most if not all the people involved with it were pro abortion
@@Qwerty-jy9mj Why I didn't like it, though, it's her choice, which is the pro-abortion side.
@@Qwerty-jy9mj Pro-CHOICE
@@arawilsonyes exactly, she should have a choice.
Wow! I usually multitasking when I am watching UA-cam but I couldn't look away! Great vid!
The story about the fake necklace and the comparison that the element of surprise is what makes it good seems disingenuous. Because this is assuming that if the necklace was known to be fake from the start (thus removing the surprise),the writer didn’t make ANY changes to make it a good story. You might argue that the story would be less entertaining without the element of surprise, but it could still be written with dramatic irony as we watch her struggle, building up to the *inevitable* realization that the necklace is fake. This story still has merit.
It’s not my problem that these are being portrayed as good story telling rules, but that they are necessary for eachother to function.
I mean, this is the entire basis for dramatic irony and the numerous famous stories that have been written with it. Probably the most famous example is Romeo and Juliet. We basically know from the start that they’re both going to die, but we watch as it unfolds and a very elaborate series of events leads to their inevitable demise. Their death isn’t surprising but still feels rewarding, and I would be hard pressed to call Romeo and Juliet predictable (or, a not good story!)
Please interpret this not as a critique of the video, as admittedly I haven’t finished it yet, but as a response to the quote and idea that was being introduced. That quote and diamond necklace comparison undermines what makes a good story.
I love this video and the way you broke down the film! I would love to see you post more videos about films being deconstructed in this way!
I fucking love this level of discourse. honestly we can't put ourselves into the author's mind, but honestly this is still fucking great. literary theory at its finest.
if I could like this twice I would. Incredibly well said and thorough
I love these videos! I watch them and take notes to become a better writer. 🥰
I just discovered your channel on my recommended and I subscribed because I love your analysis, especially of one of my favorite movies of all time :))
I never realized how much thought goes into writing and directing a movie
I always liked reading the last pages of a book first, and then went to read from the start. I never quite knew why, but it's definitely a "predictable/inevitable" decision on if a book is worth a read. If the ending is good, the journey to get there. A 600 page romance novel ends in a break up. Wild, why tf did that take 600 pages? What did these characters have to go through to reach that situation? How many times did this happen before it ended their story? A spoiled ending shouldn't spoil a story
I do this too!!! Have you ever wondered that this might be because we want the comfort of knowing that the movie will end in a predictable way and that is a reflection of our own struggle for control?
Watching this movie as an adult, i dont understand the “vanessa seems like the bad guy until surprise mark!” Because the whole time i was just like “ugh mark what? Why would you say ‘we’re safe’” or just like generally thinking he was irresponsible and not treating his wife right
Honestly I found all of this painfully obvious, except the final "Im still in if you are". I didn't even notice there was an attempt at misdirection. I thought I was supposed to know what would happen from the beginning. Specially with Nark, it was so in your face, i really cant believe we weren't supposed to see it comint
I dug up this movie once when I had covid, it was a scratched DVD and didn't play. Really cool to see that it has layers of nuance though. I like that the title easily wraps up not only the movie's themes, but the thesis of the video. June is a good movie not because it is linear but because it upholds inevitability and surprise. Cool.
She didn’t experience breast pain though, which is when the breasts become engorged with milk after giving birth. Her nonchalance was BS.
Fuckin love Juno. It was never your typical "teenager gets pregnant from unprotected sex and gives it away for adoption" type shi. I wanted to try explaining this in one of my film classes but I didn't manage to quite put it so articulately as this video!
Love movie breakdowns.
Never watched nor heard of this before butI think I might try it! Cheers
I loved this analysis! I saw this movie when it first came out, and I was twenty-two. I was old enough to hear alarm bells ringing in my head over how Mark was treating Juno but young enough that I still liked his "cool, laid-back" attitude better than Vanessa's "uptight" one. And then there was that scene in the mall where Vanessa wants to feel the baby, and it just clicked in my head that, like, this woman LOVES this child without ever having met it. I loved the way that scene felt, especially from Juno's point of view as the person carrying the child who knew she couldn't raise it herself but still wanted the best possible life for it. It was brilliant acted, on both Jennifer Garner and Elliot Page's parts, and I think that's the moment I as an audience member started really rooting for Vanessa to get what she wanted and for Mark to go f*** himself. XD
it's gotta be weird being a guy. Jennifer's Body would probably make your head explode
Lol fr
It's gotta be weird having your brain dripping out of your skull, but here we are.
I don't get it lol
Interesting point about inevitable + surprising, particularly in short stories. They don't have a lot of time to play with, so i think they often become predictable. I remember reading Arthur C. Clarke's 9 Billion Names of God in college, and telling my professor it was predictable. Of course it was, there was literally no other way for it to go, there were no other moving parts to the story, no way to do anything surprising. But i told him that, and his response was "no it's not"???? IDK what he was so insecure about, but watching this video has reminded me of it and how definitely right i was 😂
That being said, i feel like your characterization of Vanessa as an individual is not fully fleshed out, because she on her own fits the pattern too: Juno doesn't see her as the perfect mother for most of the movie, she sees her as a stuck-up, rigid, WASPy, killjoy. She's practically the enemy through the whole movie. I'd argue that the only reason Juno wants them to have the baby is because she thinks Mark is cool. The two of them even bond over disliking Vanessa! That "no, we're safe" line is a HUGE red flag about the way he thinks of his wife. That's why he thinks Juno would be cool about him leaving her.
But the Vanessa story still fits in to the inevitable/surprising framework, because of course Vanessa was always going to be the baby's mother, but over time Juno's dislike of Vanessa makes us think that if Mark's not around, that's the end of the adoption. She's not giving the baby to someone boring who she doesn't like!!! Except, the baby doesn't need someone cool and fun if he's a coward who runs at the first sign of trouble; the baby needs someone responsible who's going to stick around no matter what.
I must be weird because I’m pretty sure I had a few alarm bells going off in my subconscious when Juno started hanging out with Mark all the time.
So true, inevitability or rather the *_feeling_** of inevitability* can hit hard. Not many film analyses seem to talk about that? Examples that come to mind that feel inevitable are the endings of _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_ and of Nabokov's _Mary._
Juno is Diablo Cody’s magnum opus (I haven’t seen her other work)
you should definitely watch Jennifer's Body
me watching as a teenager/young adult - oh mark and her are just friends, this is totally fine with context. me as an adult - "that man should NOT be befriending a young girl like that". I also didnt like Vanessa when I was young, and as an adult I feel so sorry for her.
Not sure how you are getting so little viewage. Keep up the great work.
Yeah, what's wrong with people ;-) lol THanks!
I just came here after watching Juno for the first time at 22. I think this analysis is great but I felt from the first time we meet the couple that Mark is a mid life crisis weird dude that will eventually hit on Juno ( a teen, ew) and Vanessa is a mature woman who couldn't wait to be a mother. Everything in Vanessa's life needs to be perfect because she wishes to have a picture perfect environment for her and her family. The only thing I didn't expect in the movie was for Vanessa to adopt the kid anyways. I didn't know who Juno was gonna give the child to but I'm glad it was her. Everyone is happy in the end except Mark who is gonna soon get hit by a big reality check and he deserves it. I hate the guy.
always been in my top fav films.
i was thinking of jennifer’s body for a moment too with some of these factors then remembered it was also written by diablo cody. :-)
the surprising but inevitable thing reminds me of the end of dexter new blood. i’m sure the existence of that sequel had plenty of mixed feelings but it ended precisely as it should’ve, yet i didn’t predict it at the beginning. just another thing that hits for me
13:28 I think it’s more about who they want to *be* rather than who they would want to be *with*
I just love this movie so much. It's strange, because I have pretty extreme tokophobia (fear of pregnancy), that means that I usually avoid movies with pregnancy as a core topic like the plague, but this movie is just so unique and so human.
Amazing breakdown thanks so much for making this!
I’ve played guitar my whole life, my dad played since he was like 5th grade (1964). The first time I watch this movie, I was in college & the Les Paul scene comes up & they talk about how the neck broke off of it & my dad said “THAT HAPPENED TO MY 1970 Gibson Les Paul Recording Model!!” And the 1970 Les Paul Recording Model was LES PAUL’s Les Paul…it was designed to be plugged directly into a Studio Board, and the electronics on it were crazy; low impedance pickups, more switches than a Fender Jaguar & Fender Mustang put together _(not to be confused with the Fender JagStang; Kurt Cobain’s creation, which _*_LITERALLY_*_ put the Jaguar & Mustang together)_
As a previous teenage girl, I expected Mark to try something with Juno, but thats just from my experience. I didn't like Mark at all.
This is so interesting! Any chance of an upload without the continous music track? Hard to focus on the actual content and that's a shame (I think).
Sorry about that. I always wonder about the music in videos, if it's distracting or not. So thanks for the feedback.
Such an insightful video, loved each second of it! 👌
This was such an amazing video essay! I definitely learned something as a story writer :D
9:50 ...not only dressed as she wants, but dressed as she IS. Wardrobe analog... Sweater over shirt. 😳 Wow that's some enmeshment.
I’m not sure if this changes the way people see the plot, but being a woman watching the film, Mark was always a huge red flag. It still manages to misdirect the viewer, but there were seeds planted throughout
I was in middle school when this movie came out and I always saw Mark as a horribly skeevy creep from very early in the film. The fact so many other comments here are people in my age range who didn't see anything off about Mark and Juno's relationship until they got older, or knew there was something off but didn't know why, is truly a shining example of why we desperately need more comprehensive sex ed starting in elementary school.
When i saw this as a kid, Vanessa felt like the villain. After watching this as an adult, its clear that Mark is the bad guy here.