Excellent video! The subject sorely needed covering. But I want more… I’d like to see you do a video where you integrate an analog console like SSL’s BiG SiX with Luna. Specifically show the routing required to use the hardware channel strip on BiG Six as a hardware channel strip in the DAW. Or just the EQ or compressor on the strip, the LMC or the Bus Compressor the way you’d use a plugin. I’d also like to see the way you’d patch the Apollo interface outputs to the Big Six to do hardware summing on the BiG Six. Then do a side to side comparison of the BiG SiX summing to the API or Neve summing available on the Apollo. Of course, the video would be useful if the analog mixer was another brand and model. I am just looking at upgrading my Mackie Onyx 1640 with a BiG SiX. I currently have a Twin X, and will be getting an X6 soon. So you could show how you’d integrate the analog mixer if you have 8 channels of I/O.
Would be sick to do a video like that... I don't have a big six, and can't spend $3,000 to make this video.. YT hasn't even monetized me, so I'm still just kind of doing all of this at my own expense.. If someone would send me a loaner, or get SSL or a distributer to send me one - I'd be more than happy to make a video like this. I think it's a super cool unit! All the very best! -Steve
I was/am a weirdo mate ha I quit college. Started working. Took better jobs about every year or so. I had a job that could support a family by the time all my friends were graduating and getting entry level stuff. Then I crashed hard. Hit burnout. Sold the house. Payed off debts. Met my now wife, she showed me that I could just work for myself. Super supportive. Now I work harder than I ever have - but it’s for my own good. Not the ceo or president who’s already made it LOL Life is crazy. Cheers mate!
Hey, thanks for the vid! I just set it up Logic and it worked! I did it with just my Apollo Twin X Duo interface. If I bought a patchbay, can I use that with my Twin or would I need an interface with more inputs and outputs? If I can, how do I set a patchbay up to record and mix with my outboard gear without having to reconnect them all the time? I have a Cranborne EC2, Wes Audio NG76, and Audioscape Opto. I only used my outboard gear for tracking but I wanna use it for mixing sometimes as well
You have to first blow up UAD’s inbox to add “hardware inserts” to Luna. While you CAN still send audio out of the box, if you start having large mixes, the latency it induces causes problems with realtime mixing. Setting up a patchbay however, is easy. Just need a patchbay, and connect all inputs and outputs to the back of the bay - label everything on the front and then use the top and bottom rows to complete the circuits. You COULD use a patch bay with your twin, but your I/o will still be the same.
great video, very sympatic. but when you mute and unmute the plugin i can clearly hear that you have a phase align problem with the round about latency. I have the same issue with my pipeline plugin in studio one. i have an offset of 214 samples. only with the plugin. when i dont use the plugin and route it straight out from my DAW , then my offset is 1 Sample with my rme ufx3. is there a possibillity to solve this ?
Luna is doesn’t have a dual buffer yet. And because of this - there really is no way around it unfortunately. I’m hoping that they give us hardware inserts at some point in the near future.
Greetings Steve..do you have a video showing us how the I/O setup works in logic? Steps to printing the track with effects on them? It’s a step I’ve been missing after mixing. My mixes are clean and well balanced but,not knocking after bouncing. Thanks sooo much!
Totally! One thing to keep in mind with I/o plugin is that when you go to export and bounce - it doesn’t do real-time mix down. So whatever you have on I/o - needs to be printed before you hit export. I can do a video on this but simply put - whatever the return input is on the I/o plugin .. add a new audio track and as the input - choose the same input as the return input on the I/o plugin and then hit record and play through the song. Then mute the previous track that had I/o on it. Now you’d be ready for export. 😎
Just found your channel and very happy I did! I’m just getting into hybrid mixing myself. Where would you start as far as buying hardware? I have a apollox4 but my thought was to start with my vocal chain and I also do a lot of acoustic guitars. So I was thinking a 1073 and la2a, like the WA versions of. Can you throw some suggestions? Thanks
Well first, Andres - thanks for the support!! To answer your question - what I do - and what I’d recommend is, find out what plugins you aim to have, and then use the hardware to fill in the gaps. For me - the hardware that I have and I get is typically stuff that there isn’t really a plugin for. Some of it is stuff that I simply had before hand. So I didn’t get the plugin version of that. Like the “bus comp” by Warm Audio. That’s the SSL g bus. I also already had TLA-50’s which are basically la2a’s. After that I picked up a ton of plugins. And was scratching my head - cause I basically had everything I’d ever need digitally. Except - a really cool stereo enhancer, and these badass things called Dolby 361a’s. So I found those pieces to fill in the gaps. I’m sure at some point I might find something kinda neat to get into another rack unit on the side. The second part would be more of a question - how big of a session will you end up be doing? For example - I make really big productions and I’m usually recalling a lot of patches. But if this is just for like a typical tracking of your own stuff - that’s a bit different. If it’s for your own sound - find stuff you like! Have fun with it. Pre’s are always cool. I’d get a patch bay - never know if you will expand in the future. And it always makes things easier as far as routing and mixing in real-time. Real hardware comps are definitely a good tool to have when your digital one just isn’t quite cutting it. Hopefully this helps clarify! Best, Steve
@@TheSteveKinney thanks for the detailed response bro, much appreciated! Definitely going to start with looking for hardware to round out my current needs. Thanks ✌🏽
Same here. I started with a LA2A clone and a Warm Audio 273EQ. One thing that is something everyone overlooks is impedance mismatches as well as line levels. Looping line outs through the 273EQ is cool, but you’re doing that via TRS and you’re losing the benefit of the input transformer and only using the 273 output transformer. While it helps..the real mojo comes from combination of both transformers via mic in….unfortunately you can’t just go line level into the xlr input… impedance is off and the level is about 50db too hot… Stuff like that can be “interesting” to overcome… same goes with using guitar pedals… there are workarounds, but it’s good to know about them prior to going down these roads.. Good luck!
Thanks man! I’m using the old KRK’s great clean high end. Confusing low end. Haven’t really enjoyed them for that - but super helpful to hear midrange and vocals. Not trustworthy for mixing/mastering in my experience but decent overall for editing.
@@RoseCityBBQ totally! Unfortunately for my situation - just not a lot I can do at the moment. saving for a house and making do! I agree though, cheers!
I am really curious about Luna and sample rate. I assume the max sample rate is 192? Do any of the UA plugins do oversampling? I am kind of an oversampling freak. I have researched oversampling and FX processing for a long time now there is pretty much nothing I don't know about it. I refuse to use plugins that are not addressing the advantages of oversampling. I am finding sooo many free plugins that are far superior to paid plugins from top names like Slate just to name one and these free plugins that offer more oversampling options like Chow Tape Model or Gsat+ are just so great there is no going back for me. So I am just curious. I notices that UA API channel strip only supported 96khz and thats just not gonna do it for me.
Hey mate! Thanks so much for the question here... from what I've seen in the manual there are a lot of UAD plugins that do Oversampling... to name a few Neve 1073, 1084, Ampex ATR 102... its definitely in the manual if you're curious,.. what I haven't found is specifically what internal rate they run at, so I'd be curious myself... Truthfully, that said how UA handles it for all other plugins that don't upsample is best IMO... there are anti-aliasing filters.. this makes a lot of sense. There is no one.. and I mean literally no one. That would hear anything above 26k. If they claim they do, I don't believe them. lol What they are more likely hearing is speaker distortion and/harmonics harmonics... .. to even have speakers and a system with fidelity that WOULD recreate those frequencies accurately, would indicate a few things already.... So going above 96khz is kind of a flex, unless for some reason there is a specific need. ESPECIALLY since once you master, you have to dither down, down sample etc. for Spotify & Apple Music to even accept it.. now I can totally get why someone would want that fidelity for aliasing reasons, but again.. anti-aliasing filters fix this problem in a big way. No, it's not perfect... perfection would be using analogue gear though... soooo..... lol additionally, aliasing becomes a big problem at 44.1 or 48k.. Safe to say, does the plugin sound good? In no way is a plugin better just because it upsamples.. nope. We would disagree there every time. That would be like saying a Tascam 1608 is better than an Apollo twin because it has more mic pres... It's just a feature. Doesn't necessarily indicate sound quality.. catch my drift brotha? .... totally important. Just don't wanna see ya get sucked into a "technical" rabbit hole. It's all about great music, and getting cool sounds... if you have a method to your madness, that's cool! but don't get bogged down... upsampled plugins aren't the missing link into being a great engineer or producer! Thanks for the amazing question, and hopefully I gave some interesting perspective and insight. Cheers bro!
@@TheSteveKinney I agree with much of what you have said. U have misinterpreted some of what I said but that's expected in this format. I am glad to hear there is some oversampling available and I will download and read that manual ASAP for sure. Thanks for responding to my comment.
@@mentalprogram5256 oh no! Ha ha sometimes I read fast. I do my best. all good mate! If you find out how they configure the internal sample rate, lemme know. Cheers mate!
Grab your presets here: thestevekinney.com/
@Ernie Stepro thanks so much for the support!!!🙏🏻
Great video. This is a bit over my head. But so proud of you and these videos!
Thanks babe
Very good instructions on your part,Sir. Thank you.
Thank you so much for the support and for watching!
Excellent video! The subject sorely needed covering.
But I want more…
I’d like to see you do a video where you integrate an analog console like SSL’s BiG SiX with Luna. Specifically show the routing required to use the hardware channel strip on BiG Six as a hardware channel strip in the DAW. Or just the EQ or compressor on the strip, the LMC or the Bus Compressor the way you’d use a plugin. I’d also like to see the way you’d patch the Apollo interface outputs to the Big Six to do hardware summing on the BiG Six. Then do a side to side comparison of the BiG SiX summing to the API or Neve summing available on the Apollo. Of course, the video would be useful if the analog mixer was another brand and model. I am just looking at upgrading my Mackie Onyx 1640 with a BiG SiX.
I currently have a Twin X, and will be getting an X6 soon. So you could show how you’d integrate the analog mixer if you have 8 channels of I/O.
Would be sick to do a video like that... I don't have a big six, and can't spend $3,000 to make this video.. YT hasn't even monetized me, so I'm still just kind of doing all of this at my own expense.. If someone would send me a loaner, or get SSL or a distributer to send me one - I'd be more than happy to make a video like this.
I think it's a super cool unit!
All the very best!
-Steve
Who buys a house when they’re 20? Lol. Good for you, man!
I was/am a weirdo mate ha
I quit college. Started working. Took better jobs about every year or so.
I had a job that could support a family by the time all my friends were graduating and getting entry level stuff.
Then I crashed hard. Hit burnout. Sold the house. Payed off debts.
Met my now wife, she showed me that I could just work for myself. Super supportive.
Now I work harder than I ever have - but it’s for my own good. Not the ceo or president who’s already made it LOL
Life is crazy.
Cheers mate!
always very informative!! great stuff!
Thanks so much David! The support is so appreciated!! 🙏🏻
Hey, thanks for the vid! I just set it up Logic and it worked! I did it with just my Apollo Twin X Duo interface. If I bought a patchbay, can I use that with my Twin or would I need an interface with more inputs and outputs? If I can, how do I set a patchbay up to record and mix with my outboard gear without having to reconnect them all the time? I have a Cranborne EC2, Wes Audio NG76, and Audioscape Opto. I only used my outboard gear for tracking but I wanna use it for mixing sometimes as well
You have to first blow up UAD’s inbox to add “hardware inserts” to Luna.
While you CAN still send audio out of the box, if you start having large mixes, the latency it induces causes problems with realtime mixing.
Setting up a patchbay however, is easy. Just need a patchbay, and connect all inputs and outputs to the back of the bay - label everything on the front and then use the top and bottom rows to complete the circuits.
You COULD use a patch bay with your twin, but your I/o will still be the same.
great video, very sympatic. but when you mute and unmute the plugin i can clearly hear that you have a phase align problem with the round about latency. I have the same issue with my pipeline plugin in studio one. i have an offset of 214 samples. only with the plugin. when i dont use the plugin and route it straight out from my DAW , then my offset is 1 Sample with my rme ufx3. is there a possibillity to solve this ?
Luna is doesn’t have a dual buffer yet. And because of this - there really is no way around it unfortunately.
I’m hoping that they give us hardware inserts at some point in the near future.
Greetings Steve..do you have a video showing us how the I/O setup works in logic? Steps to printing the track with effects on them? It’s a step I’ve been missing after mixing. My mixes are clean and well balanced but,not knocking after bouncing. Thanks sooo much!
Totally!
One thing to keep in mind with I/o plugin is that when you go to export and bounce - it doesn’t do real-time mix down. So whatever you have on I/o - needs to be printed before you hit export.
I can do a video on this but simply put - whatever the return input is on the I/o plugin .. add a new audio track and as the input - choose the same input as the return input on the I/o plugin and then hit record and play through the song.
Then mute the previous track that had I/o on it. Now you’d be ready for export. 😎
@@TheSteveKinney I appreciate your time,Boss. Thanks again!
how would you route the IO plugin with an Apollo twin though?
You’d go line out 3/4 and then line in 1&2
Sweet
Cheers Wayne!
Nice👍🏾👍🏾
Thanks mate!
Just found your channel and very happy I did! I’m just getting into hybrid mixing myself. Where would you start as far as buying hardware? I have a apollox4 but my thought was to start with my vocal chain and I also do a lot of acoustic guitars. So I was thinking a 1073 and la2a, like the WA versions of. Can you throw some suggestions? Thanks
Well first, Andres - thanks for the support!!
To answer your question - what I do - and what I’d recommend is, find out what plugins you aim to have, and then use the hardware to fill in the gaps.
For me - the hardware that I have and I get is typically stuff that there isn’t really a plugin for. Some of it is stuff that I simply had before hand.
So I didn’t get the plugin version of that. Like the “bus comp” by Warm Audio. That’s the SSL g bus.
I also already had TLA-50’s which are basically la2a’s.
After that I picked up a ton of plugins. And was scratching my head - cause I basically had everything I’d ever need digitally.
Except - a really cool stereo enhancer, and these badass things called Dolby 361a’s.
So I found those pieces to fill in the gaps.
I’m sure at some point I might find something kinda neat to get into another rack unit on the side.
The second part would be more of a question - how big of a session will you end up be doing?
For example - I make really big productions and I’m usually recalling a lot of patches. But if this is just for like a typical tracking of your own stuff - that’s a bit different.
If it’s for your own sound - find stuff you like! Have fun with it.
Pre’s are always cool.
I’d get a patch bay - never know if you will expand in the future. And it always makes things easier as far as routing and mixing in real-time.
Real hardware comps are definitely a good tool to have when your digital one just isn’t quite cutting it.
Hopefully this helps clarify!
Best,
Steve
@@TheSteveKinney thanks for the detailed response bro, much appreciated! Definitely going to start with looking for hardware to round out my current needs.
Thanks ✌🏽
Same here. I started with a LA2A clone and a Warm Audio 273EQ. One thing that is something everyone overlooks is impedance mismatches as well as line levels. Looping line outs through the 273EQ is cool, but you’re doing that via TRS and you’re losing the benefit of the input transformer and only using the 273 output transformer. While it helps..the real mojo comes from combination of both transformers via mic in….unfortunately you can’t just go line level into the xlr input… impedance is off and the level is about 50db too hot…
Stuff like that can be “interesting” to overcome… same goes with using guitar pedals… there are workarounds, but it’s good to know about them prior to going down these roads.. Good luck!
Hey Steve my second track is not picking a signal in Luna. However, I do I have signal in logic. Do you have any recommendations?
Double check all of the routing. And then cue mix.
Make sure your inputs and outputs are correct.
@@TheSteveKinney Thanks. I fixed it.
I like your studio. What monitors are you using?
Thanks man! I’m using the old KRK’s great clean high end. Confusing low end. Haven’t really enjoyed them for that - but super helpful to hear midrange and vocals. Not trustworthy for mixing/mastering in my experience but decent overall for editing.
Eh well backed up against the wall like that of course the low end is going to be... Interesting
@@RoseCityBBQ totally!
Unfortunately for my situation - just not a lot I can do at the moment. saving for a house and making do!
I agree though, cheers!
Your new videos show Event 20/20 monitors. I have a pair myself and was thinking of adding a pair of ADAM Audio T5Vs. What made you choose the 2020s?
I am really curious about Luna and sample rate. I assume the max sample rate is 192? Do any of the UA plugins do oversampling? I am kind of an oversampling freak. I have researched oversampling and FX processing for a long time now there is pretty much nothing I don't know about it. I refuse to use plugins that are not addressing the advantages of oversampling. I am finding sooo many free plugins that are far superior to paid plugins from top names like Slate just to name one and these free plugins that offer more oversampling options like Chow Tape Model or Gsat+ are just so great there is no going back for me. So I am just curious. I notices that UA API channel strip only supported 96khz and thats just not gonna do it for me.
Hey mate!
Thanks so much for the question here... from what I've seen in the manual there are a lot of UAD plugins that do Oversampling... to name a few Neve 1073, 1084, Ampex ATR 102... its definitely in the manual if you're curious,.. what I haven't found is specifically what internal rate they run at, so I'd be curious myself...
Truthfully, that said how UA handles it for all other plugins that don't upsample is best IMO... there are anti-aliasing filters.. this makes a lot of sense.
There is no one.. and I mean literally no one. That would hear anything above 26k. If they claim they do, I don't believe them. lol What they are more likely hearing is speaker distortion and/harmonics harmonics... .. to even have speakers and a system with fidelity that WOULD recreate those frequencies accurately, would indicate a few things already....
So going above 96khz is kind of a flex, unless for some reason there is a specific need. ESPECIALLY since once you master, you have to dither down, down sample etc. for Spotify & Apple Music to even accept it..
now I can totally get why someone would want that fidelity for aliasing reasons, but again.. anti-aliasing filters fix this problem in a big way. No, it's not perfect... perfection would be using analogue gear though... soooo..... lol
additionally, aliasing becomes a big problem at 44.1 or 48k..
Safe to say, does the plugin sound good? In no way is a plugin better just because it upsamples.. nope. We would disagree there every time. That would be like saying a Tascam 1608 is better than an Apollo twin because it has more mic pres...
It's just a feature. Doesn't necessarily indicate sound quality.. catch my drift brotha? .... totally important. Just don't wanna see ya get sucked into a "technical" rabbit hole. It's all about great music, and getting cool sounds... if you have a method to your madness, that's cool! but don't get bogged down... upsampled plugins aren't the missing link into being a great engineer or producer!
Thanks for the amazing question, and hopefully I gave some interesting perspective and insight.
Cheers bro!
@@TheSteveKinney I agree with much of what you have said. U have misinterpreted some of what I said but that's expected in this format. I am glad to hear there is some oversampling available and I will download and read that manual ASAP for sure. Thanks for responding to my comment.
@@mentalprogram5256 oh no! Ha ha sometimes I read fast. I do my best. all good mate! If you find out how they configure the internal sample rate, lemme know. Cheers mate!
@@TheSteveKinney it's all good and I will do.