The First Contactless Only Station (No Oyster)
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- On the London Rail and Tube Map, Brookmans Park has appeared with a 'Contactless' symbol next to it, denoting it can be used for Contactless PAYG travel, but NOT Oyster cards!
You can still use a paper ticket - as always - of course, but there's more of these to come, with nine stations about to appear on the Tube Map which will also be Contactless Only/No Oyster. I went for a ride to Brooksmans Park to investigate.
With thanks to Mike from the 'Oyster Rail' website. For so much information about Oyster/Contacless and your questions answered, have a look at Mike's amazing site: www.oyster-rai...
I'm 16 so use a 16+ Oyster card - a contactless card would charge me the full adult fare, and a paper ticket would also cost me the full adult fare without a 16-25 railcard... not sure I'm a fan of this
Codra The new New York Subway contactless system will charge reduced fares for people who are entitled to them. There’s nothing inherent in contactless payments that prevents that.
Codra You can get railcard discounts on a paper ticket
I'm not a fan of this either.
Well,Here in Italy,16 Years olds Are Using a students card,apparently the students card used to from 11 years until 18,Now i got a card(since im 11)That shows me Under 14 And dont Need to tap in/out,Contactless Here is only supported on the underground,not on the surface
Rory on a Bike but in London that’s not the case. Under 19s have to use a special Oyster card with a photo, or get a paper ticket, to get discounted fares.
"I have been here before..."
Says man known for visiting all the stations....
eddy66t6 😂😂😂😂😂😂
All the stations. All of them.
But he didn’t get off at all of them... 😀
All of them?
MainBlag Banner Apart from those on the Isle Of Wight of course
Year 2020 - The Oxford English Dictionary announce that Oysterable has been added to the dictionary.
If only it had been 😜😛😬😭
I think from a branding point of view it's all a bit messy. Most people will associate that Oyster validator with...well, Oyster! Also, they've gone one step further and wrapped it in London Overground orange and the contactless logo on the map makes me think of free wifi not contactless payments.
But it's an ORANGE (not YELLOW) touch pad, with a big no-Oyster sign attached. :)
Ricardo Wiggett Nope. As Geoff says (and can be seen) “It’s a standard yellow pad, wrapped in orange.”
@@johnwebb4566 I've looked at it again on my Android phone, and in the video it definitely looks like an ORANGE pad, distinct from the normal yellow ones found in the TfL area.
Ricardo Wiggett Will have to disagree. It’s definitely yellow (and has the same icon as is displayed on the back of Oyster cards)
@@johnwebb4566 Looking at it on my laptop also, it definitely still looks orange to me. It's funny how different eyes view the "same" colour wholly differently?
So the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that today, we have issues whereby people are coming to Reading and even stations as far West as Newbury and Didcot with Oyster cards, and even when TfL Rail start their services to Reading on December 15th, these issues will still be present as they will tap in as normal at London and reach Reading to the same issue as currently. This solves nothing.
Only a few more miles more and you'll have the same travel card system as we have in the whole of the netherlands. Imagine oyster but for the entire country (and bikes as well!!)
Man I’d love if you could do all these challenges and testing and history lessons over in NYC with their MTA transit. I’m finding this quite fascinating and I don’t even live in the UK, lol
Am I the only person who heard "Cross Eliz Purp line" and double-checked the upload date of the video?
Geoff, I love your pedantic bit about the symbol placement haha
5:10 there's some great geocaches in Brookmans Park
@@geofftech2 Geoff, what's your caching username!? 😊
@@geofftech2 yup, been up there twice, there's a great piece of path that's right next to the railway
I have a TFL (Underground) Staff Pass, and have been told that we will be able to use it on the Elizabeth Line, the whole Line, but I am waiting for it to open to be sure.
Its all so vague
The staff oyster is valid from zone 1 to zone F. If, as i beleive it does, zone F means the same as zone 15, and if Reading is within zone 15 then the staff oyster should be valid.
Thanks UA-cam. Never been to London and i live on the otherside of the world. Just watched a 13 minute on a train station in North London!
Ditching the tube map and just having the rail/tube one sounds a good plan to me. It's arbitrary at the moment anyway, as key central London arteries such as Thameslink and the Northern City are omitted, even though they could be useful to many.
If trains between Iver and Reading are contactless only, then that would mean that National Railcards cannot be used on this part of the line unless a paper ticket is bought with the Railcard applied!
I wonder about Visitors from countries where contactless card technology is not usual or very minimal, often American cards marked as contactless don't always work on TfL gate readers.
I had problems with my Dutch bank card on First (including the 500 from Glasgow Airport) and Garelochhead buses but not on Citylink. Even Applepay did not work. Never had any problem with contactless in shops.
I'm Australian and the Debit Card I use for travel doesn't work on Contactless. If I were to use my own everyday Debit Card, I'm constantly going to be using my everyday money and my bank will LOVE me with its Foreign Transaction Fees every 5 minutes!
Back in 2014 my US card had no chip, the ticket machines were like, “that’s not a card”. thankfully the ticket office was open and the gentleman working there new how to get it to work. Then again the ticket/metrocard machines want your zip code. If you are a visitor from overseas, you wouldn’t have one!
Joe, do you mean the uk machines ask for a zip code for us cards? If so, that may be our system, which requires a pin code, improvising a pin code.
@@janfluitsma8274 I wonder if the problem might be if your card allows 'offline' transactions or not. Not sure if that's the right term but I mean contactless transactions where they reader doesn't connect to authorise immediately. Certainly when I use Google pay on Glasgow buses, the transaction doesn't always appear until sometimes quite a lot later (especially Stagecoach).
Years ago this was a problem with Visa Electron cards which couldn't be used for loads of things like ticket vending machines as they didn't support this sort of transaction.
Now we just need it for Stansted. It would make sense!
I 100% agree.
Oh, and Southend while we're at it.
Ali365Dash Yes, Southend too! Especially considering Stansted and (somehow) Southend are both considered London airports 😛
This was very informative. Thanks, Geoff! 🤙🏾
Those of us who have synch'ed their rail cards with Oyster need to be careful not to use contactless cards unless we are guaranteed the same discount. Time to update the Oyster system with a proper mobile payment system that recognises discounts.
They could squeeze in another zone by renaming 1 to 0 and pushing all the others by 1.
There is a Platform 0 at Kings Cross so why shouldn't there be a Zone 0?
I wouldn't be suprised if the existing system didn't already use "Zone 0" for some purpose, like if there's a program error and the zone is unknown
The more exciting use would be if there's actually a tube station under MI5 or something and it's zone 0 :P
They can cope with just 15 zones - all that is needed is to adjust the boundaries of the zones to include more stations each zone. Would have to recalculate the fare structure but not impossible.
Zone 0 is flat-fare zone aka single-rated buses. Zone 14 is double-rated buses. Zone 15 is special fares and are divided further by route and stop info.
@@Socken1255 They used to have Aston Martins with machine guns and ejector seats. Now they have Oyster cards 😦
@@andymerrett Maybe Geoff was at a zone 0 station in the vid - anywhere your outside the fare zones 1 to 15? (just spotted Erkin's reply. Though surely you could just add all buses to any single zone and make the fare the same?
It would be great if Oyster could be used anywhere in the UK for any train. It would never do if we had a simple solution though!
It's a good idea in principle; I think a software engineer who can write a bug-free program to do this successfully will be paid a LOT of money. ;)
But imagine the extent of your minus PAYG balance if you forgot to tap out from say, London to Birmingham🤔😯
I used the Dutch version of Oyster for a week last year for work, travelling to places > 100km with no issues. The other thing they do is make the single fare half of the return. It's much easier.
If that means reduced GWR services to Paddington from Wales it's stupid as hell. Last winter we went to London and there were 3 trains worth of people on one GWR that then had to go at half speed because it was snowing. That line is already crowded enough and too often overbooked
I don't think so, GWR has been busting its nuts to focus on upgrading its mainline routes to the west of England, Wales and Cornwall.
The key words you mentioned were "because it was snowing". Snow and the UK never mix well. :)
Shouldn't make any difference to long distance services. The Crossrail services are essentially the existing Reading to Paddington stoppers, extended (eventually) to Abbey Wood. Indeed, as they will no longer be using the main line platforms at Paddington, that may allow more long distance trains to use them. (The reverse of what has happened at Waterloo, where more local trains are to be run, using the former Eurostar platforms)
I just don’t understand why the Tube fare system is so complicated, unlike the Navigo in Paris area. However your trains look much better than the metros and commuter trains here in France. Really hope that some day I could try it.
(Don’t panic Brits, I’ll come by train or by air, not by lorry. Really sorry for what happened, I feel very ashamed although I literally have nothing to do with it)
What happens if you tap in with an oyster then get to the station not knowing it's contactless only and can't tap out? Do you get charged the maximum fare for not tapping out?
2:07 Are there really 15 zones or 20 zones? I checked maximum journey times recently and they said journeys across up to 20 zones so that’s why I’m asking
Extending contactless coverage a few stations at a time give me an idea: Why not have all National Rail, Tube, local rail, etc. stations accept contactless cards, with the same fee system, and travel would be far easier and less confusing? If only we could get all operators to agree (umm... nationalisation?).
Mate it’s where the TFL zone stops, Oyster cards are not valid from that point, only paper tickets or contactless.
I wonder now, would it be cheaper to still get a paper ticket with a railcard to travel from Paddington to Reading then to use contactless? Because i presume it will be the same fare just that there's a more convenient way of getting through the barriers if you're in a rush and haven't bought a ticket
Seems like only a matter of time before Stevenage drops into zonage (possibly 15).
And then Nottingham
@@kdwskdws There is a government policy to make the network contactless.
If they put Stevenage in then you got to put in luton airport and Luton
@@199019852007 And why not.
@@peebee143 Luton has an airport and has a higher level commerce it just a bigger and more important town no disrespect to Stevenage.
Did you check the balance after you got back to zone 5? Was the far capped below the return fare, or at least below two singles (ie. £6.40)?
I wonder if Leeds and Wakefield might one day be in zone 40! 😜
I have 30 tubes maps you must have a lot I will have 33 tube maps tomorrow or Friday I am a big fan of you I think you should do St Albans City cause that Station takes contactless and not oyster
I wonder what will happen to those travelling with Oyster photocards who get discounted fares...
It’s strange how the validator is a TFL one despite not taking oyster. There are many contactless readers around the UK but they tend to be operated by the local company. I wonder why this one isnt
5:07 What's your geocaching username? I was very surprised when you said that you geocache, I haven't known many people who do it.
My question is how things like Zip will be implemented. I have a staff discount / priv rate which is applied to my oyster card, now yes I can use my rail pass for this journey but for tfl only stations how will the zip discount, and other oyster special fares be applied?
What happens for people that don't qualify for a contactless bank card.
Buy a paper ticket with ca$h.
Ricardo Wiggett If the machines are working or the ticket office (if any) is open
I am confused about the new trains on this line. It was my understanding all UK trains must have a certain percentage of yellow on the front for visibility, do you know much about why these trains are allowed to bypass this rule?
There's literally no reason why TfL couldn't put Iver and Langley in the single digital zones, with GWR having a double digit (fare set by TOC, rather than TfL) zone for Slough, which can do Burnham and Taplow. They might rejig zones 12-14 up one to put Slough cheaper. Still the Lilac Liz Line would have three stations outside the zones, but it's better than nothing.
Personally I think they should make contactless nationwide (or at least major commuter lines). It's so annoying buying paper tickets to get into London , which is only twenty miles away.
Daniel Moolman A lot of people do not trust contactless cards
The year is 2035 and Birmingham New Street has been added to the London Tube Map under "Zone 43"...
Great..lets add Alberta too!
After TFL spend eleventy trillion pounds upgrading the Oyster system from 4-bit to 8-bit
Pigs will fly before that happens!
Lest add thurso in 2050
The year is 2035 and we're all dead from global warming/disease/nuclear winter - delete as applicable.
So, would the stations that don't accept contactless be called contactlessless?
Vokabre or just “contact”
Contactful?
I think "useless" is the term you are looking for..
all stations should accept contactless, its not that hard to add a card reader
We can't have contactlessless! We must be contactlesslessless.
"Seek assistance" yet alot of the stations they've removed all the staff. Thats the next thing to do. Go round noting all station where the ticket offices have all been shutdown.
Yeah and brookmans park hasn't had a ticket office for ages! I guess they mean call the help line thing.
Ahhh the paris metro method... Great.
Quite true, is anyone going to bother paying full stop if travelling from somewhere like this to say another station with same set up (no barrier)
i once seeked assistance when it said that, I ended up with a fine.
Chiltern Transport Productions There are no ticket booths at Ruislip but there is always at least 1 member of staff on hand to assist anyone.
Is it just me or do others also think that unoysterable stations are actually not very user friendly?
It's just a massive piss take, I'll probably avoid this station entirely on future trips up to London where I just put everything onto my Oyster and leave it at that
Agreed, especially for children
Not just you, it's confusing and especially user unfriendly to students, children, and the elderly. Hell, the whole oyster system has become way too complicated
Is this level of fare structure complexity really necessary...?
No. overlay NYC on London at the same scale. Voilá, your new zone 1. All other zones should spread out at a similar distance.
Sydney (Australia) was meant to have a smart card public transport ticketing system in place for 2000. After many issues, it took until late 2012 until the Opal card started getting rolled out.
The last issue was that the fare structure with the paper tickets was so complex that they couldn't program the system to accommodate it. They had to simplify the fare structure before they could get the Opal system implemented.
@@magical_catgirl Even the way most PAYG National Rail smartcard systems work is they just fetch the equivalent paper ticket fare at the end of the day and then charge your debit/credit card for it.
@@nelsonricardo3729 NYC MTA looks to have similar operating/total debt to TfL despite its simpler and cheaper fare structure. Zone distance resonates because it's intuitive but not really relevant any more than why calling Cuba costs 100x calling Germany from anywhere. Pricing is an art and there are a lot of things below the surface when you're operating at this scale. TfL has chosen a complex algorithm which is more "fair" per distance but less intuitive.
@@magical_catgirl I'm a big fan of the Opal system. It's simple, and better still, the fares are logical and *reasonable*. TfL fares are none of those things.
So Oyster cards; famously contactless; are no longer "contactless", despite still being contactless? Nope. It's not confusing enough. They need to do better.
It’s so stupid Ireland has terrible public transport but we use leap cards on all public transport except national buses (you pay like normal or buy ticket online)
They do - it's stupid. It should be able to deduct the credit regardless of the zone.
@@techblogger8323 Leap cards 100% need to be added to the Bus Eireann and Expressway buses now
OhLookAWoodenSheep that’s what I thought but with the cost of expressway buses idk is it worth it likei would like if they added it so you could make some journeys cheaper ie. say you got route 64 from Sligo to Galway and then to limerick on the X51-if you took the like next bus it would almost count as a connecting journey and the price wouldn’t be as high as buying two singles, does that make sense even with Irish rail to buses
Just like how with the metro card in NY sometimes a bus that you get after leaving the subway is free because it’s counted as a connection
@@techblogger8323 I feel they should discount the fares slightly like on the city buses as an incentive to use the cards, so instead of paying €10 for return it would be €8.70 or something, would make idle times at bus stops shorter due to more efficient passenger loading and overall make the buses more on time
I am completely against this. The whole point of oyster is to have a simplified system where you can use the card everywhere. If they start having stations that don't allow them then that completely defeats the point
Fair, but they are outside of London. If they keep adding stations it will engulf the nation 😂
@@Garner84 why is that bad it sounds pretty damn good a simple to use system instead of the mess we have now
@@mccobsta Japan has the UK 10 years ahead with its smart cards being interoperable, where you could have a card issued in Tokyo (Pasmo or Suica) for like the Tokyo Metro, and be able to use that in Osaka (ICOCA) or Sapporo (Kitaca), and vice versa.
Imagine you could use your Oyster card in Merseyrail, or the Tyne and Wear Metro, or in the Glasgow Subway.
@@Garner84 good
@@Garner84 and that's a bad thing?
"Mind the gap between the train and the contactless platform."
YOU MAY NOT TOUCH THE CONTACTLESS PLATFORM
It's a big one mate
Mind the drone that will lift you over the contactless platform.
Found ticket deals. Want the link?
This is literally just stupidity.
James Phillips they basically just want more money from it lol
@@Baker.Creative this just gives people the excuse they need to not tap out
They are fulfiling the governments agenda. They know what they are doing.
Really just that?
@@CheapskateMotorsports Not tapping out would probably cost you more as they'd charge you the maximum fare for that line, and besides what about tapping in, you're running the risk of a potential fine, and getting stuck at a barrier if coming into central London.
Can I get my Railcard discount on contactless yet?
No? Then this is a bad move.
Can I put my Railcard and PAYG balance on my SWT Smart/SWR Touch/whatever-the-hell-the-next-incompatible-smartcard-is-called?
No? Then this is a bad move.
_The entire point of Oyster is its simplicity of use._
The thing is, it's a lot easier to manage and maintain having railcards etc. being stored on each card. So it was set up that way.
Much later, contactless came along and is often part of a credit or debit card. Banks are obviously not happy to give potential access to any data in that system. However, the Oyster cards are not set up to have their data on servers. Hence the current situation.
I think the ultimate solution will be to scrap the current Oyster system and place it with a pseudo debit card (think pre-paid card). That will, however, run into issues with banking regulations, especially regarding minors.
That's what I'm thinking!! They'll charge higher fees to our bank cards!!!
@@tams805 Oyster, as it is, already a credit card (due to negative balance thing). Just a specialised one.
@@juliestockmeyer5871 they already do
The silly thing is, in theory, it should be possible for them to link a railcard to a contactless card.
15 zones to match the number of storeys each tube station has.
meerkatologist Why would it be so difficult to just add another bit?
@@QuarioQuario54321 Doubtless the system (either the fixed infrastructure, the Oyster cards or both) has been designed down to a budget and everything would need to be replaced.
In which case you might as well add another 4 bits, and have enough zones to throw them around Greater London like confetti.
Hell, why not go crazy and add another 20 bits (24 total). That should be enough to expand Oyster2 to cover the whole country!
dfross87 How did you calculate you’d need 2^24 zones to cover the entirety of Britain? I feel like 8 bits would be enough. Maybe 16. A zone 2^24 to zone 1 journey would probably cost £1000.
@@QuarioQuario54321 I didn't. I simply added bits until I felt a suitable absurd number had been reached.
Don't mention that😀 they will start charging for elevation travelled as well as longitude and latitude.
The orange colour scheme on the reader would suit London Overground stations better.
Yes
Let's restrict your payment options, yay?
It is so confusing, Geoff even struggles, it feels like it is one step away from random fares in your disadvantage.
Programmer's worst nightmare: "You new assignment is to fix bugs on the legacy system."
Reorganise the zones.. aim for fewer zones in London .. merge zones 2&3 , merge 5&6 ...
I'd actually be up for trying to sort this out, if they'd give me half a chance
Things to discuss!
Could TfL not agree with GWR Oyster Fares/Zones beyond West Drayton? (e.g why isn't Iver Zone 7, Langley Zone 8 and Slough Zone 9, etc..)
Are they really trying to ditch Oyster and get everyone to use Contactless?
Surely when #PurpleTrain fully opens, loads of people will jump on it with Oyster ... and then get unstuck when they go past West Drayton?
How cramped is the new pocket Tube Map going to look in December when they add 9 new TfL stations to it, and how will they denote 'No Oyster - Contactless Only' on it?
Don’t worry, when we finally get Brexit everything will be sorted
@@williamsmith8164 What on earth do oyster cards have to do with Brexit
There might have been some issue with setting fare levels for Slough and Reading; these are both served by GWR's IET trains and so a much higher fare would be asked for by GWR because anyone heading to London Paddington from the latter in particular will just take the 80x services...
@@silenthunteruk Then why aren't Oyster fares for Watford Junction to Euston higher on LNWR than on Overground?
What I want to know is, who's daft idea was it to be restricted to 15 zones?
This was a very informative video.
And I'm still very confused.
As if the map wasn't complicated enough. Good luck on squeezing all the info into the new map TfL.
Maybe the new map will just be a code your phone scans to link to an online map... that’ll be fun when you have no cell service or WiFi in the tube!
If I were TfL, I might not be interested to squeeze the stations beyond West Drayton to the Tube Map at all…
They might just do up to west drayton. Then have the line trailing off a bit with the words "for all stations to reading". Then those oysterless stations would technically not be on the map.
@@joermnyc Further excluding Luddites from the system!
@Chiltern Transport Productions Don't forget the cable car lol
Right. So when Crossrail opens, if someone touches in with their Oyster at TCR (which is a perfectly valid thing to do) and decides to go to Reading, will they not be able to get out at the end? Am I the only one seeing this as a problem?
That's already quite possible now, at any station where you can go through a LU gateline and then get on a train that goes outside the Oyster zone. Moorgate and West Brompton spring to mind, I'm sure there are others. Result I imagine is no different to if you tapped in at a Southern/SWT station in the London suburbs and stayed on the train out to somewhere way out of London - you'll have travelled without a valid ticket and be subject to a penalty fare. There should be warnings on the platforms and in the trains though of course.
If you tapped in with Oyster at TCR, heading towards Reading, then you'd have to jump out at or before West Drayton, tap out, then either tap in with Contactless or buy a paper ticket. And probably then wait for the next train!
@@arpwable SWR do have warnings on the trains via announcments and screen prompts "oyster cards are not valid beyond the next station stop, etc". But it's a bit late, unless you hunt down a guard and ask for an extension.
@@ian9outof10 It's the same on Chilterns Railway trains traveling northbound of Amersham. There is an announcement before you get there saying that Oyster cards are not valid beyond Amersham.
As someone who spent the past year commuting to Ascot from Clapham Junction it's astounding how many people already tap with Oyster at the London stations only to realise it doesn't work past Feltham on SWR. I've seen multiple people have to buy tickets from conductors who have come along the train to ensure people are travelling with valid tickets.
These are all true but this will be a TfL operated route! For TfL not to accept one of their own primary methods of ticketing seems a little crazy to me.
Curious to know how railcards would work with this? If I can't use my 16-25 oyster then I definitely want to use my railcard but as far as I'm aware you can't add these to contactless cards like you can oysters, so ultimately, I'd still use a paper ticket so I can save some money, making the effort futile for me at least. Loving the orange though!
Student/YP/Senior/Disabled railcards will all disappear eventually. People will just tap in and the bank will be contacted to determine if the journey is eligible for free/discounted travel.
They don't want old people in Brookmans Park.
The over 60s Oyster is only valid as far out as Hadley Wood anyway, so the station is outside the region we can use it.
@@digitig Fair point. I still reckon they have a sign "Welcome to Brookmans Park. 60 or over? Bog off".
My cousin lives in BP. It's posh but souless. She's under 60;)
when the 84 had london buses,oyster validators, were oyster/freedom passes accepted up to the Spires or what
@@lorrainewalker6493 Originally on the 84 they were accepted up to Hadley Highstone/Greenacre Close, then they were accepted up to Potters Bar station for a while, then not at all because TfL didn't want to pay the commercial operator. So Hadley Highstone is in London but the only bus serving it doesn't accept Oyster cards, which is kind of ridiculous.
Tom Scott would've done a whole video on the 16 limit. You know, just sayin', Geoff 💅🏻
Sounds like a great idea for a collaboration, maybe in the next series of The Basics... 🤔
Or Matt Parker, i was thinking ... !
I’m immediately intrigued as to what Zone 0 is, if it’s a 4 bit property.
@@EddArmitage hmmmm I'd love to be at the board meeting where they missed that one...
@@EddArmitage I heard a suggestion that Zone 0 was bus and tram, which is probably the case.
My 16-25 railcard is linked to my oyster card. It gives me a 30% discount on rail and oyster fares. This means that i would have to pay with contactless here which is not linked to my railcard thus costing me a full fare. I will likely never travel to this station but never the less it annoys me.
I see why Oyster is going out of date, but I hope they'll still have cards, mostly for tourists, and just call the whole smartcard/contactless ticketing system the "Oyster System" (or similar). It would be sad to see the name go completely.
Geoff how much do you spend on your Oyster card a year?
you keep beating around the bush while there's the big elefant in the room with "WHY?" painted on his belly.
Because someone in the early 2000s decided that a 4-bit number to identify zones was acceptable for a public transport payment system launching in the 21st century.
Was Oyster envisioned to extend so far though?
To force people to use cards. So the gov can track dissenters easier.
@@MaximilianonMars and shut off their ability to move around
whats with the german elefant?
10:08 The camera is overcome with emotion at the outrageous charge of £3.20!
LashLightning 3.20 isn’t even that much, I pay a lot more every day for college
@@lucybrown7396 It's more that it was an extra £3.20 from the previous stop - he has already paid £12(?) to get there, unless I'm not understanding the situation right.
At the time when I worked at London Bridge station, it was cheaper to purchase a ticket from London Bridge to Gatwick in the Peak hours, however it is cheaper to use contactless/oyster in the Off peak.
Peak:
Paper ticket £11.00
Contactless/Oyster £15.00
Off Peak:
Paper ticket £11.00
Contactless/Oyster £8.30
No idea why but that is how it is. I always advised customers to use the cheaper method before entering! Tourists seemingly unaware that they’re paying more than they should on an already overpriced system!
You look like a mix between Jeremy Renner and Daniel Craig
I remember when London was just zones 1️⃣ 2️⃣ & 3️⃣ 😀
Obviously going forward TFL want everyone to use contactless, but how do they square the circle of railcards, discounts etc that currently only work on Oyster?
Michael Leedham That will be so financially dangerous they will never be able to stop people putting devices nearby to skim cards
It's not an oyster zone station at all... it simply charges the adult single fare (or different when returning) to x. Think of it as a paper ticket journey paid by card.
I think it's actually totally solvable -- already you can register your contactless card on TfL and use that account to get refunds, etc. As I understand it, TfL contactless card payments are only withdrawn from the bank account at the end of each day, so you could easily register your card online, register your discount of railcard or whatever, then it would apply the discount automatically each day.
I'd go so far as to say that the fact that the reason TfL *haven't* done this yet is probably because they are incentivised not to give people those discounts.
@@AndrewJJ-0114 one way I can see them doing it is have the website show a card ID number (not the actual card number but a unique ID within the TFL system) which staff at a manned station can type in and link a railcard to.
Contactless only works with UK cards doesn't it - so a real issue for tourists.
Nope Contactless MasterCard, Visa and American Express cards from other countries should work as well.
What if you are a tourist and your card doesn’t work? Or you loose your contactless? How are you gonna travel? There should be multiple options at every station.
So does TfL want to go all contactless and smart cards eventually and phase out Oyster cards on all systems? Because I can see the transition creating massive confusion until then. Agree with the other comments that having 15 zones is way too much.
Of course there is no need to *buy* a paper ticket to test it out whether contactless is cheaper than a paper ticket. Just get a quote from the ticket machine, then cancel the purchase
Maybe maybe not. If you have to pay your bank those scam foreign transaction fees then paper will probably be cheaper
This sound and feels like a train crash in slow motion makes no sense at all and God help anyone trying to understand the tube maps or even using the tube
The way they decide Oyster zones has always confused me. Personally I think they should be based on actual geographical location instead of the higgeldy-piggeldy approach they're utilising now.
(For example. Epping and Cheshunt are roughly on the same latitude. Yet Epping is in Zone 6, while Cheshunt is in Zone 9.
In a latitude/longitude based fare structure they'd both be in Zone 6. Hertford East and Hertford North would be in the same zone as each other, same with Enfield Town and Enfield Chase).
That is an interesting point. I assume that, in the Chinese voodoo that was used to determine zone numbering, supply and demand of transport were taken into consideration along with general geography.
@@nobbynobbynoob It's almost certainly the case that there have been multiple passes on zoning. First pass would be distance based. Subsequent passes are then based on fare yield.
Until January 1997 Debden, Theydon Bois and Epping were all in Zone A (now Zone 7) if memory serves, but moved into Zone 6 following negotiations between Essex County Council and London Underground. At the same time, the boundary on the Metropolitan Line was moved to make Moor Park dual zoned (Zones 6 and A, whereas previously it had just been Zone A).
Why use zones at all? Sydney has its Opalcard which works in a similar way to London's Oystercard - even the ticket gates are often identical to the ones that you see in London. The Opalcard can be used on trains trams, buses and ferries, although with buses, trams and some ferries, it is necessary to touch out.
The chief difference in Sydney is that fares are based according to distance travelled at least on train services. Currently the scales are 0km to 10km, 10km to 20km, 20 to 35km, 35km to 65km, 65km+. This means that the Opalcard doesn't just cover the Sydney area but also a radius of some 150 miles from the city centre too, including the Newcastle area, the hunter Valley and the whole of the Blue Mountains area.
Currently the area is bounded by the following stations, Dungog, Scone, Newcastle, Bathurst, Goulburn and Bomaderry. There are fare caps for daily, weekly and Sunday travel plus separate paek hour fares. The only premium that requires to be paid is the airport access fee for both the Domestic and International airport stations, but these fares are only applied if you touch in or out at these stations - if you are passing straight through, then you are charged nothing extra.
I read something somewhere that the fares on those services had to be higher so as not to undercut the TOCs.
GWR are supposedly launching contactless on local commuter routes , and already have their smartcards. I remember when SWT introduced ticket gates with Oyster style tap and go barriers outside TfL travelcard zone that people thought Oyster was coming further out but as you are aware Geoff it was just to upload season tickets on smartcard ticketing.
I don't think contactless bank cards, but you can use a smartcard with pay as you go credit within Bristol and also in nearby towns and Cities like Bath, Cheltenham, Gloucester and Weston Super Mare and it reaches to Freshford, Chippenham and Ashchurch (for Tewkesbury)
@@grassytramtracks is the GWR Connect card or something issued by Travelwest the local transport partnership.
I have lived in London for 8 years and still don’t understand exactly how the fares and zones work. I bet they do it on purpose to confuse us with how much it costs
I was once on a train that was going from Victoria to ramsgate, and it stops at Bromley south and then into Kent (long field is the first stop in Kent) and a lady thought she could go to somewhere beyond Bromley using her oyster and the guard said “no sorry you have to get off at longfield and head back into London to tap off” she was a bit upset but at least he was nice and didn’t fine her. I think National rail conductors are much nicer than tube inspectors they will always make exceptions on NR but the TFL inspectors will just slap you with £80 Penalty
So let's all discuss: Is 'Oysterable' a new word?
It is now
Once a word has been used, and its meaning understood, then it is a valid word - whether or not it has yet found its way into a dictionary.
If it's a 4-bit system, then they still have zone 0 up their sleeve, which could surely be used to reference an expanded bit range elsewhere in the EEPROM.
@@CliveCooperford Fixable, put all the buses in another zone with the same in zone fare.
The system is just storing taps and then working out the fair afterwards elsewhere. They can create more zones it's all written in C I think
Maybe they can add an oyster symbol with a cross through it on the map. And make an announcement before the station "Oyster Cards are not valid at Brookmans Park. Oyster Passengers for Brookmans Park should alight at Potters Bar or Welham Green."
In a geeky kind of way I can't wait until they update to 8 bit and then have 256 zones , that should probably cover a good deal of the country outside London on the tube map - might as well seeing how everything centres on London ;)
Zone 256 (or 255 I suppose if there's an implicit zone 0) will be somewhere like Pitcairn. Then a moon base will be built and everything will have to be upgraded again to reflect the new fare system. A space elevator will be incorporated rather like Emirates Air Line.
£3.20 is cheaper then the usual £3.60 it is for an normal single for super off peak. Then if you travel peak it is £3.30 while it is £5.10 for a normal peak single. All from Oakleigh Park to Brookmans Park
10:16 Those 'Getting around Central London' leaflets are annoying me. I picked one up today, thinking it was a tube map, and was thoroughly underwhelmed when I realized it only had the very centre of the network.
And then there's The Netherlands, where we have one chip card system for all public transit in the entire country. (This includes, but is not limited to all metro systems, the national train network, busses, ferries and all trams.)
I'm against this as I prefer using oyster for my journeys, and the fact that you can't legally have a contactless until you're 18 so TFL are just forcing under 18s to get a paper ticket, when I know that plenty of under 18s have Oyster Cards. I thought TFL preferred Oyster anyway as they get more money from it? But hey ho, there's always flawed logic anyway
@Nick Lindsey Hmmm, a quick google search says you have to be over 18 but yeah, it really is stupid to benefit people paying less money to TFL (even when they're cost cutting)
You can't have a credit card until you are 18, but many banks allow children to have debit cards. The difference is that a debit card deducts money from an account, whereas money racked up on a credit card is only paid back to the bank later.
@MarcusFootus2 With the new stations out to Reading, all except Reading and possibly Slough will be TFL owned so that'll be no problem. So why they doing it there?
I don't have a contactless bank card - therefore will I be forever trapped in limbo at the station?
Yes.
And Revolut cards do not exist (to get a contactless card).
Is it really so hard to get one?
So, apparently, Oyster cards will not be usable from West Drayton to Reading for te reasons you explain. However, TfL have said that 60+ Freedom Passes will be valid on the route provided TfL services are used.
My 60+ card clearly states Oyster - so is it actually an Oyster card or is is a disguised Contactless? Come 15th December, I will be trying it out to see how well it works (or not).
If you were being cynical, you could suggest that this was being done deliberately to try and confuse passengers to apply penalty fares.
I work on the barriers for greater anglia at liverpool Street. I've been there 6 years. They change all these things without telling us, so when people ask me i haven't got a clue and look like an idiot.
If they can’t add oyster then why bother? Should just not be in the London fare zone and you’ll need to buy paper tickets
so i can use my bank card in place of an oyster card?
I don’t even live in the UK and i find this fascinating. It seems like oyster might be on its way out.
They've wanted to for years but it's hard to untangle.
Nah, how are people supposed to buy Travelcards otherwise?
hotelmario510 back to the paper travelcard days boi
So long as I'll be able to link my railcard to my contactless card (like I can with my Oyster) this shouldn't be too much of an issue. Hopefully.
A fascinating video. I used to commute to Brookman’s Park once a week - with a paper ticket - from the suburban platforms at Kings Cross. I would sit at the front of the dmu and enjoy the smell of the fumes and the bell-ringing as we approached each signal. Times have certainly changed!
Must be eerie for some Londoners when they find their Oyster cards don’t work outside of London
Not to mention people who have freedom passes.
Moggy saying that my parents have Welsh govt all Wales bus passes, and we were in Southampton and they automatically showed them on a local bus but they forgot they don’t work in England bus driver was ok about it though.
Sorry, where is this "outside of London" place?
You'd be surprised (or not) at how common this is. People attempt to travel to "outer" parts of the home counties (a few inner parts are effectively London for public transport purposes already, thus Oyster would be fine) using Oyster or contactless TfL touch in so frequently that no-Oyster warning signs are erected at some stations, including my local one (fat use it is though to the hapless traveller who has ALREADY touched in in London, and now finds themselves in the predicament of holding no valid ticket AND having to grovel to TfL for a refund for the incomplete journey). In the past, when inviting friends over from London, I've explicitly given "no Oyster/contactless, buy a paper ticket, don't attempt to touch in" warning as a reminder.
@@Welshman2008 it's not like your parents stop needing the use of their passes just because they've left Wales. I've just checked and it's the same story with freedom passes issued in England, they're only valid in England. Absolutely crazy.
That's got to be the beginning of the end for Oyster then, doesn't it? This is how TfL talks about Oyster in their press release:
"Pay as you go with Oyster will not be extended to services beyond West Drayton, due to limitations with the system, which is now more than 15 years old. Millions of journeys in and around London are already being made using contactless every day; with 60 per cent of rail pay as you go journeys made using contactless."
Pay as you go journeys mean everyone without a pass of any kind, right? So, likely not most regular commuters in that total
so this is what hawkeye was doing during infinity war..
Interesting video, this is the first time Ive ever heard the zone number spoken for Watford Junction zone 10 and Gatwick zone 14, those zone numbers are still not indicated on network maps.
If you are a visitor from the US who has an Oyster Card and you enter the system at a station that accepts an Oyster Card, but leave at a station that only accepts contactless, what are you supposed to do? Especially at stations like Brookmans Park where there are no humans with which to interact. I am assuming you will have to know in advance that your destination station does not accept Oyster Cards and one will have to buy a paper ticket.In the US, only a couple of credit card companies provide contactless payment on their cards. This will be an issue for visitors from the US until the US gets with the rest of the world and makes their credit cards contactless. And since it took US credit card companies years to adopt chips, we are probably looking at a decade or two for contactless to become widespread.
When I was doing revenue my advice to all tourists was to forget the oyster cards and just use daily paper travel cards. They never know how to touch in and out correctly and always ended up with maximum fares and running out of money on the oysters. It doesn't help that shops were selling oysters topped up with a Zone 1-6 cap preloaded and calling it a travelcard without explaining if they forget to touch in or out the cap is removed.
I haven't had a non-contactless card except my local credit union's for a decade, and even that can be loaded to your phone. It's not rare here. And I'm in an "unimportant" Midwest state, not the coasts.