Uber And Lyft Are Not Being Honest About Upfront Time Estimates
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- Опубліковано 20 лют 2024
- Have you noticed that the time estimates from Uber and Lyft for the pickup and ride itself aren't always correct? Join RSG contributor Jay as he talks about this.
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What have you been noticing on estimated times?
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Its been getting worse. I've noticed between 5-8 and even up to 10 min extra time between pick up and drop off locations. Honestly I thought I was going crazy and rethinking what I was seeing. Its happening to me on both apps.
Jay-You can set up screen captures as a Shortcut on your iPhone, so if you double tap the back of your phone, it takes a screenshot.
@@Dan_Matwij If they lie, I always cancel
😂 Here were still on rate cards so they lie in the opposite direction because they know they have to pay after 10 min towards customer. So they know if they show high pickup times, it means money. The worst I ever had was yesterday promised 18min and instantly on accept went to 13. So this just proves no matter which way the AI needs to lie, it will figure out how to cheat in your area. This is hilarious how evil they are.
Respectfully Jay I disagree this is about competition. IMHO It's about up-front fares remaining opaque.
There is NO REASON the post ride fare breakdown should not include the time and miles which was the basis for Driver acceptance.
I believe Drivers should continue to push for the upfront fare breakdown to include time and miles so we can compare.
They have the information they should stop refusing to divulge it.
That information would give the Algorithm a better chance for improving what Drivers are offered.
The developers know exactly what they are doing. There is no way they can't know.
These rideshare companies will find angles at every turn to manipulate and exploit drivers and passengers. The corporate greed is real.
Business is Business 🙄
Upfront fares has turned us into hourly workers. Cant beat the algorithm.
This isn’t legal. They need to compensate for inaccurate predictions.
Lyft is specially guilty. When the trip pops up it shows the highway, 20 minute ride. When u pick it up takes you local and makes it into a 40 minute ride.
Glad to know I'm not crazy. I've been thinking this as well. It feels like rides always take 3-5 minutes longer than the estimate. It's not much per individual trip, but if you're doing 80 trips a week, it's a lot of money missed.
True I had a pick up of 5 mins then it turned up to be 1 min good for me though
Also add passengers taking their sweet time to meet you at the pickup spot, and lyft now pays under a dollar for waiting the full 5 minutes
It is what it is......
You so called driver's complain and whine about everything.....Go get educated on Business then talk. 🤡🤡🤡
@@josepratts9641 very enlightening comment, Mr Educated
What I have noticed is that rides that were $15-$18 they are paying $10. Rides that were $50-$60 they are paying $35-$38 ripping us off big time!! What else is new with these croocks? I have denied everything and anything under $10, they don’t have consistent rides and when they do they robb you blind, $.50-$.60 a mile, seriously?
Get another job and stop crying
I agree. The 50-60 rides are definitely now 35-less than 40 range. Consistently. No rides ever are above 40 anymore. SF - San Jose. 38 dollars for sure.
@@josepratts9641hopefully you have and your friends and family all have good working vehicles and never need a ride share or black car, cab service. Keep them shoes laced
5:42 is exactly right! It's sad that there's not much we can do about it other than lowering your expectations 😔 Someone got to hold them accountable to being so deceptive to their drivers.
Bs. If 200k drivers don’t drive for three days in major cities, trust me. Both Lyft and Uber will bend backwards because they’ll stand to lose millions
Short trip ends up being long because heavy traffic. Upfront pricing doesn't account for extra time sitting in heavy traffic and that needs to change.
This is not new… Lyft is especially notorious for this… they don’t account for traffic, traffic lights etc… plus they don’t account for the potential to wait on the customer… so yeah not new…
I often cut a few minutes off the estimate by analyzing the map and making a u-turn at the beginning where appropriate.
I cut a few minutes by rolling stop sign and running red light.. speeding helps too
I think we need to start being a little more harsh when we make our comments to either Lyft or Uber or to Rideshare companies in general instead of taking the route of being unnecessarily polite or a little false when we're actually pissed off. So it's not to say that I think we should be rude and I don't believe that being polite is the best way to go I just think that as a group of drivers we've been polite for way too long and they deserve the second tier level of our anger and frustration being vented to them honestly honestly we know that they are playing games and have been the entire time it's time to start throwing a little heat behind our exchanges F lift and F Uber for taking advantage of drivers
I routinely use profanity in my exchanges with their "support" bots
😂😂😂😂😂can't believe this video hasn't been made prior to this. They're constantly 2-10 minutes off and not paying the difference. Had one that took 54 min longer and payed me a whopping $12.53 more
I do iphone screen video capture and go back and review it. If you have enough memory, you can record several hours and fast-forward through your rides.
Great idea
This also seems like manipulation of contractual data. Being that we are contractors, each ride we accept is an individual contract.
Feels like their mileage is off about .5 mile….
And now if you really want to be upset factor in the waiting times and possible loading and unloading times. That's easily pushing those numbers up to 20% and 25%.
Then of course factor in your wait times between rides. All that could equal up to 30% of unpaid dead time an hour. So if you wanted to shoot for $30 an hour you actually have to shoot for $43 an hour. The last time I saw an average of $43 an hour was years before covid when I had more hair.
They want more drivers not because they want the customer to wait less. They want more drivers because it’s not sustainable if you do the math when you drive a vehicle that’s under 150,000 miles. It’s not sustainable for the people I’ve picked up used to be rideshare drivers and they couldn’t afford to keep their vehicles they had broken down. They had worn them out and there wasn’t enough money in the budget, this is the facts has nothing to do with letting the customer wait or not wait
Thanks for all your work on this issue - much appreciated.
If you trying to push me to accept it. Then what is the purpose of this video.
6:10
It's called fraud! Everyone knows they do this.
In Boston it seams like every estimate is 3 minutes off on the pickup and the drop off. So 6 minutes added to every ride on average.
I work a smaller size market and do both Uber and Lyft. Sometimes passengers in my area will try both apps to get a ride. Sometimes I get both of those ride requests back to back (declining both because they underpay). I see different time etas and different mileage estimates for both. Small variance, yes, but clearly either one or both is wrong. It also tells me that customer is a guaranteed no-tip since they're already shopping around for the lowest price possible.
I shop around and always tip unless the ride was garbage.
Uber says they'll get me there faster than Waze, then gives me the exact same route with a 2 minute shorter estimate. Of course they don't tell the truth about time estimates.
7:19 this is called manipulation straightforward they need to be more honest and have more Integrity with their information with their drivers
Exactly!
They are not honest at all. They created manipulation on every step. Uber lyft filled with Lies, and manipulation these days.
Huge class action law suit
It should be. They're committing fraud. Government should take action as well.
Thanks for this experiment! Now we need to compare the ride app estimate, the Waze estimate AND the actual time.
I ran this experiment and found Waze wasn’t as accurate as I believed. It was somewhere in the middle, but you’re right, Uber/Lyft underestimated at a very high frequency.
This has been an ongoing problem, thanx for addressing it.
They do that with miles too. I got a trip that said 1.4 miles to pick up 6.2 miles to drop off for 12 bucks. When I picked them up and started the trip it said 9.5 miles.
Great analysis as always. I use Waze as well. I find both rideshare companies too optimistic on drive time in my city
On longer rides over 20 miles the mileage is usually close but the time frame to drop off can be anywhere from 10-45 minutes longer than advertised. Thats why I only work in one county and never take long rides. One of those long rides can really kill your day, especially if is out of a populated area to a thinly populated area. I try to take rides that are under 10 minutes to pickup and less than 15 minutes to dropoff. That way the time difference might only be 5-7 minutes. You have to be an expert in an area and know the time for trains, schools busses, bad intersections, rush hour problems, construction etc. if you want to be able to still grind out enough money to make ends meet hopefully.
I agree with you. Uber and Lyft are unethical with the time that you see on both Apps when accepting a ride. Times are not accurate. Now is the worst with the upfront pricing because they do not compensate you for the extra time. Lyft at least gives you extra money sometimes if the ride takes longer.
That is exactly right. The actual times that Uber or Lyft sends is not accurate. I don't accept if I don't know the reality of the trip.
That is very accurate! This has been an issue for me as well.
Lyft is practically shorting the estimated time and usually with Waze I get the correct time. Most of the time I get there two minutes later than what Uber and Lyft estimated. And sometimes it’s even the same route Lyft and Uber provided.
In rate card areas like mine, they lie in the opposite direction because they know they have to pay after 10min toward destination. So you guessed it, they promise like 18min, and on accept it drops to 13. It goes up 2% of the time and way down 98% of the time. They will lie in every possible way to steal from you.
I observed this yesterday Google map and waze map with same destination and road, time & miles are displayed different.
This happened to me in a major way yesterday. Upfront fare for a very long trip (130) miles csme it. I was curious because it paid well and would put me where i could get more rides. Same exact trip no change in destination was actually 180 miles. They're just blatantly lying to us and misleading us now.
I knew I was getting ripped but I don't have time to do all the screen shots you mention. All I do is I log the vehicle odometer when I leave the house, and the time. I do the same when I get home. My reality for 2024 so far, is that the time stated in summary on my spreadsheet is roughly 60% less on Lyft and Uber is less than 55% of what I drive. On the mileage for 2024, I see 58% with Lyft and 56% with Uber. My overall spreadsheet for 2024 shows I get collectively around $19.94 an hour on Uber and 18.46 with Uber. I do add in tips to get these figures and subtract tolls from the amount the respectively pay me. I hope this is roughly what yall are seeing if you use similar data points.
I notice that too! I run my phone and apple car play- I see the Uber time vs my gps time… it’s ALWAYS OFF!
Good job.
Something else, and this applies to these types of web sites - Theoretically drivers are running a business - The word "earn" and "earnings" don't come into play until ALL expenses are known - We may have Gross Revenue of $25 to $30 per hour but that does not translate into "earnings" - This is a major fault of every single ride share site I'm personally familiar with - If we're running a business, which we are, please use the correct business-oriented accounting terminology so everyone is on the same page - Drivers that are not familiar with the appropriate terminology need to get up to speed on the appropriate definitions - it's not rocket science and every driver is more than capable of using the correct terminology.
Yes time and Mile shaving on all trips. Especially when it’s busy but now I am seeing it all the time. They have set up the pay system by the hour which 15 dollars an hour gross over the year.
Yep i noticed this months ago. They will also tell you the upfront fare is 15$ and when you finish the ride it'll pay 10$! or less and if you don't screenshot every ride you will not get that money back ESPECIALLY with Lyft
I swear, I thought this. I knew I wasn't going crazy.
Remember lyft also has the preset message that tells the customer you will be there in 2 to 3 mins less than what they say it will take when you accept the ride so if you hit preset button you will actually be 6 minutes or more behind their estimates which makes the drivers look bad
Finally someone see !!I said years ago! Waite is true only when you drive 10% after that speed limit and not stop at sign !
These discrepancies started appearing here in Atlanta in the spring of 2022, precisely when upfront fares began. This has been occurring here on both Uber and Lyft in Atlanta since 2022. I've repeatedly complained into the void of their bot-based "support" teams for no joy.
They use these numbers as it suits them. I used to have huge problems with them on Reserved rides.
On those rides, they tell you when you should leave to get to your destination.
Then they would route the trip right into the middle of expressway traffic. As I was sitting in the gridlock, it would send a warning message saying I need to go to my destination. And this is still 15 minutes before I’m supposed to be there.
Another few minutes would go by and Uber would cancel the trio saying I was not making enough progress to my destination-leaving at the time they told me to leave, on the route they told me to take. And bye bye $25.
If I stayed out of traffic and took side streets which would beat their estimated time by 10 minutes, they would cancel the ride because the app didn’t think I was driving to the destination. 🤷🏻♂️
This is a lawsuit with evidence that upfront pricing is illegal. Why didn’t you said that
Agree
I’ve noticed that the addresses are off by miles also. Example, upfront drop off is on 120th Ave but actuality it’s 165th….so 45 blocks difference!! Definitely cutting us short.
Wadr respect this has been happening for at least the last year. Been shouting it through the roof. Especially as the rush slows down. Its seems to be mainly on long rides. Record your trips and review what you except and you'll see it.
You should be able to screen record 3-4 hrs of trips easily.
This is a very important point. Upfront times are mostly wrong specially during rush hours. I figured adding at least 15-25 minutes before taking that trip. Hey Jay have you tried screenshot quick app? screen tapping instead of side buttons. Pro version Costs $7.
Yea that’s why I don’t drive during rush hours it’s a waste
You don’t need to buy anything extra. Set it up as a Shortcut. Double tap the back of the phone for screen shots.
In my market Lyft underestimates the pickup and dropoff by 2-3 mins on each leg. I factor that in when I accept a ride, if Waze shows me its longer, I cancel. Fuck Lyft and their scam estimates and fares.
They're purposely lying at this point on the time it takes. They're very happy to deduct pay if you drop or pick someone up slightly closer. They refuse to compensate if the trip takes longer than the original time. Well, unless it takes 20+, they "might" compensate 😂
Uber make the fare like 1 or 2 $ and remaining is added like fees so when there is surge only apply to 1-2$ fare
8 year driver here. This whole nobody-knows-how-upfront-pricing-is-established carp is BS! Sacramento driver as well. I accepted a trip to San Jose Monday for a specified amount and time. The trip took an HOUR longer due to weather and traffic. NO adjustment to final pay. I contacted driver "support", and argued that if it was still based on time/distance (you know...straightforward, nd consistent), I would have been compensated for that extra time. I was told, in NO uncertain terms that Lyft is not responsible for "outside factors" like weather and traffic...and that I was, indeed, paid the promised fair. INFURIATING. Not only that, but they did not pay me the toll to cross the Carquinez Bridge to get back to Sacramento. Reason: "You did not have a passenger in the car when you crossed the toll". Pretty sure that's new BS too, as I've always received toll payouts "after the trip completion", even if I had already dropped off the passenger. I HAD to cross the toll to get home after taking YOUR customer to their location. I will no longer be taking any Lyft trips to the Bay. They are FAILING!!!
How do the in app navigation compare to Google Maps?
Ya same here, i thought i was crazy but waze give exactly travel time
I have caught uber bate and switching. Where they promised upfront like 22.00 and when I arrived actual pay was 12.50
Colorado driver here - I see this happening
Hey that is the , true what you saying about the mileage I do DoorDash I do Instacart and I do Uber eats the miles is lying. I called them, and they said the miles was right.
Whatever I see minutes I always add 5mins to it bcoz I know that is not included in whatever uber Lyft shows
They do this a lot. I notice it in my market.
Also the fact that 60 plus percent of riders will take almost a full 5 minutes to come out
Know your areas, the best times to travel back roads and the best to utilize highways to break this algorithm that they're both using to slow you down to control your hourly while they charge the client more for the longer time on the trip. They're slowing you by a minimum of 5-9 minutes per trip
I don't operate my business on CPT.. if a rider makes me wait more than 3 minutes. I cancel the trip and drive off. I have had passengers run after me.
Legislate a rate card with their true take rate prominently listed next to the estimated fare.
That true
Time and mileage
And there is something is even more important that has been happening with me, after I accept the ride , they reduce the price which lead me to cancel with madness
💯 facts
The biggest headline of this is what it does to Dara’s much publicized hourly rates for drivers.
Right out of the blocks, Uber sent me a message saying I could be making $28/hr in Chicago between 10p-5a.
What happened to $32/hr? 🤷🏻♂️ I work 10p-7a, 7 days a week in a place The Handsome Liberal driver says is the most dangerous place in the U.S. to be a rideshare driver. He says nobody should be driving here.
And they send you a message we’ll pay you $28/hr ($5/hr LESS than what the boss says we should make) for working in the most dangerous city at the most dangerous time of night.
And that’s where the time manipulation figures in. They are underestimating the ride times because, in reality, it’s probably not even $28.
Drivers need to face the fact that this is just who these people are. To expect any kind of empathy or understanding for drivers is a fantasy.
Investors saw zero numbers long enough. They brought an enforcer in and said “fix this sh@t now”. Dara was hired to do a job. And he is doing what he is being paid to do.
That’s why we are where we are.
Time pay + mileage pay not upfront but realistically. Forget percentage of fare let them charge the customer what they choose that's not my concern. Pay me for my time and my vehicle for the mileage to pick up and drop off. That is transparency. Clock it and meter it like a old time cab ride. Customers will understand that and drivers will be paid fairly.
I have netted $300 in rides this week so far and have $6 of that in tips. THAT is reality and no one from Uber or some spokesperson for them can tell me it's much different for other people. I have a 4.98 rating over 6 years and never have problems with passengers because I'm an easygoing person. Polite and the car smells nice is clean I do it all and no tips. They want to steal our minutes and base the cut we get from them off of tips? It's insanity
Uber like to manipulate with the address of drop off you get one address on upfront info and when you pick up the rider the address have change
I find the same thing.
One of the factors is how terrible ubers Maps is. To me it looks like the majority of the time they find a middle ground between quiet and busy estimates and use those, unless very busy. So sometimes I do get shorter trips when its quieter than they expect but most of the time its not in our Favour. Eventually you are able to account for these somewhat but its still unacceptable and at the least should be giving us the long end of the stick.
You can see watching the time to arrival over time. Its calculations are basic and inaccurate unlike waze.
Thanks for the analysis!
They do this to passengers at the airport for the pickup time too , it would show 3 minutes away when in reality can be 10 to 15 minutes because of traffic, after you accept that Trip there will no price adjustment they keep getting away with this...
Im tired of having to driver to a busy market. Its either they have something for me near my market or nothing at all.
The distance is estimated from spot to spot "as the bird flies". Your actual trip will be longer.
They've been doing that for awhile. Today I was using an an area filter and was sitting on a $5 surge. I saw a ride to the airport for $24 (which I normally wouldn't do) but for $29, I would have. I took my filter off and the request for that ride came through for $25 (they skimmed $4 and thought I wouldnt notice). I declined it, lost my $5 surge and put my area filter back on. They must think we're all stupid. Well alot of you are, but I'm not one of them. HAHAHA
Not sure why anyone ever goes to the airport, they charge our riders $50 and pay us between $14-18 on average.
Don’t know where you are, but it’s the same in Chicago.
I used to count on Reserved airport trips for most of my money, but now they have throttled me off those, so now I’m lucky to get one a day.
I know it’s being manipulated because it is always just one. Like they’re giving me an allowance.
I like doing airport trips because I’m a night stalker and the wee hours trips out there are guaranteed money for the short time it takes to get there.
I don’t take any ride under $7 under any circumstances and if it’s busy, nothing under $8.
Needless to say, these days I can find myself sitting idle for a while as I reject a trunk load of $3,4,5 rides.
But the fuckery goes beyond that. Reserved trips to the airport are generally $24-$31. But now that they are not giving me those, I need to troll for airport trips in real time.
From downtown to O’Hare is about 21 miles, Midway a little less. And in real time they are consistently posting those trips at $14, sometimes as low as $12.
And like you said, I know what they are burning the passengers for that ride.
7 dollars 2.5 miles total turned in to almost 5 miles. Just happened to me on Uber.
What we need is an app that overlays both Lyft and Uber and translates their data to accurate data, then relays and communicates with the apps to auto-deny or auto-accept based on actual factors. It's nonsense to be doing math all day when we obviously have machines that could be doing this for us.
How do you know Waze isn’t under estimating? Seems like the common denominator here is Waze. Did you calibrated Wazes estimates?
Because he uses Waze faithfully and it’s always correct. You must be paid by Uber or Lyft.
He said in the video several times that Waze is accurate.
@@darob20just because I have a fair question doesn’t mean I’m a shill. It’s a fair question
@@SmartAlxI didn’t hear him say that. Btw Waze has been commented in the past to be inaccurate so it’s a reasonable question. Maybe it is accurate now.
@@GraemeIng he explained it in the video tho
Those who have the gold make the rules and I think the mileage calculation is as the crows fly
Plus waiting 5 minutes for passengers is a rip off after doing so many in a day
I add 10 minutes to every trip. 7 minutes wait time plus a little extra.
I thought it was only happening to me. I know the mileage was changing after I accepted the ride for Uber.
It’s called a scam.
You are 100 % right. Uber is lying on pick up time
Uber/Lyft don't take into consideration traffic or stop lights. This may be a large part of your time delta.
Thats why my pickup is not over 6 minutes and of course im not surprised if these pickup times are manipulated. These crooks know what they are doing.
The developers and the companies trick us. Us the drivers are being in loss wages…
Yup, with very rare exceptions the estimated times are correct but I would say over 90% of the time they are underestimated by at least 20% to 40% and on occasion it's been 100% or twice as long. This seems to be especially true for the distance to pick up although the actual trip ride is usually also underestimated but not usually as bad as the time to the pickup. They are a tech company if waze and Google maps can get it right then Uber/lyft should be able to do it. But it's a way to scam drivers who are trying to figure out if it's profitable or not
Since they are shaving/fudging with time , then everyone needs to change their pay requirements to increase by 3%.. Dont settle and accept that.
How about 45 minutes turning into 1 hour and 47 minutes and Lyft refuses to pay accordingly.
I noticed that that Uber is paying less than 1.00 a mile on some rides
Its as a crow flies
i cancel in a case like that
Which market do you drive in?
@@POLITICALLYRICH Norfolk
It's penny pinching they are doing. Dynamic pricing is based on time and distance, so when pricinf there estimated fares based on there time and distance they are stealing from drivers. I'm.from the UK same is happening here with both Uber and Bolt... they are all thives
They are lying for us to think it's a good job and accept
It's happening a lot at rush hour and I'm always careful now and will cancel if i get one
You had a lawsuit going on during Covid I remember, how did that end up? I’ve been driving for years and I’m thinking about doing a lawsuit too if yours was successful- all the best.