Diablo 4 - In-Depth guide to damage stat interactions - Damage Buckets explained - New interactions!
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- This video explains how the multitude of damage stats in Diablo 4 are combined together to determine your damage output. Previously undiscovered interactions are explained, in order to help you fully maximize your damage. The general concept of 'damage buckets' is covered, and an example stat comparison is provided to help illustrate the importance of correct stat distributions.
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I've watched so many people making videos for D4. You are really the only one who does videos like this that I found and I am greatful for that. Not too many people bothers with math like this these days.
One of the better deep dives on damage this far save the global equation(all are global).
Good job! Subbed!
I for one would love to hear the Rant about faulty tooltips 😂
UPDATE: My apologies, but I was wrong about some of the info in this video. It seems that the 'non-global' or 'local' multipliers, although displaying in the UI as I described here, are in fact global multipliers. This makes the whole thing even more confusing, as you first have to manually remove these local multipliers from your displayed stats and then apply them as a global multiplier instead. Although local multipliers fit my data at the time, this was due to multiple huge bugs that completely ruin the damage formula if unknown. My damage (and possibly yours) doesn't come close to what it should with global modifiers, but this is due to OTHER bugs lowering my damage.
Tooltips are very very wrong in game. Effects displayed as additive [+] can be multiplicative, while effects that state 'increases critical hit damage' might not even affect critical hit damage. I detailed the bugs that threw off my math in this video: ua-cam.com/video/Sz0aRhiBcCk/v-deo.html
My spreadsheet is described in this video, with link to the spreadsheet in it's description: ua-cam.com/video/0oEUdENNa3k/v-deo.html
Good grief. You've done an amazing job even trying to work out what D4 is doing. It really is half-baked in so many ways.
hey man, i love the content and was wondering if you had any insight on something ive been researching the past day and a half. how important is core damage on a build like pulverize druid where all your damage comes from core? maxroll has it as the second bis stat after vulnerable for on weapons and im not sure why as from everything ive read it's additive. i thought they had it listed like that because crit isn't real important on the build with grizzly rage ramping crit damage, but then i saw a guy on reddit point out it directly affects pulverize damage, which is multiplicative from what ive seen. do modifiers that directly raise your core skill damage like that matter more? ive done some limited testing by moving paragon points around and cant really tell, and i can find almost nothing online talking about the role this plays.
Regarding core directly affecting skill damage vs. other addtiive stats: the UI is designed to mislead you here. The UI will show the numbers in a skill tooltip change for only some additive stats, and not for others, which implies multiple different categories of additive stats. The actual equation the game uses for dealing damage is different, and uses only a single category for the additive stats. So this is just an example of an incorrect UI tooltip designed to mislead.
Regarding why builds would include core damage on a weapon: there are a few reasons why they would do this. First, a large portion of additive stats are conditional in some way (close/distant, vs. cc, slowed, stunned, while healthy, etc.). Although they are equally important when doing the math for a particular hit, the conditional ones won't always have 100% uptime, which makes the non-conditional ones like core damage better just due to being guaranteed that it will always be active. Bosses (which can't be CC'd) will usually be a big drop in your additive category through loss of conditional additive damage, which makes core damage particularly important on boss fights.
I'll make my stat damage spreadsheet publicly available very soon (as soon as I have time to record a quick walkthrough/instructions for it). It'll help a lot for determining things like whether to choose core dmg vs. crit on gear!
i respect even more that you were willing to update with mistakes and corrections. King
Thank you SO much for all this work. No one (who is actually a human) expects you to perfect this anytime soon, but we are all immensely grateful.
Super excited for the spreadsheet. I’ve tried creating a few and there are just so many unknowns - but you’ve answered so many of them!
Quick question, have you found an area, dungeon, etc., that works well as a testing ground? Trying to find a spot where the mobs don’t buff, kite, etc., is proving to be a bit of a chore.
Thank you again for all your work!
won’t lie - i almost didn’t sub simply because your channel was named after a single game, so i would definitely encourage you to give yourself room to grow by not pigeon-holing yourself into a single game or even genre.
great content, keep it up and good luck!
I will be waddling my way over to watch every video like this. all I want is someone smarter than me breaking down the mechanics instead of just making a tier list of the best ones. GUYS VULNERABLE % IS OP .. ok yes but why, whats happening in the character sheet. ty Mr. Duck
We don't deserve this level of content. Thank you very much again for this and the last video, I hope you have a fantastic weekend, and if you make more I'm sure I speak for the vast majority of your viewers when I say we will watch it and re-watch it while eagerly awaiting more.
You rock I’ve been waiting for some of the finer details people skip so many confusing interactions
Great video, adding my comment for the algorithm gods. Need to get this in front of more people.
Well my head hurts now. Ur out here playing a whole different game. So in depth I loved it. Keep up the great work!!
Immediate subscription. Thank you for being accurate and crunching the numbers instead of regurgitating someone else's material.
its so cool how you have to do a math equation to figure out your damage instead of the game just telling you. Im really glad they made that feature its really epic.
Companies who make educational videos should hire you.
Out of all the videos i’ve seen, this was the most helpful. thank you!
Clear, concise, well organized, without hyperbole….. thanks!
Best video on D4 on youtube. Right here. This totally changes everything about how I thought it worked. Some being locally multiplicative threw me for a loop
Amazing, hoping you can add more content... and more fallowers!
fantastic video. I didn't realize there were locally multiplicative stats, but it does make sense.
Ty so much for this in depth guide and clearing things up, subbed.
My brain melted, but i understood it all the way through i think 😍 very nice insights and thank you for doing the math for us
For all the Barbs out there - your Unbridled Rage Key Passive that gives you 135% increased core damage is both ADDITIVE to your Damage with Core stat, AND MULTIPLICATIVE with your Damage with Core stats on your weapons!
For example, from my gear I have 150.8% Damage with Core. When I equip the passive, the stat in my character sheet goes up to a whopping 489.3%! This is because the passive adds a flat 135% to that stat, but it also multiplies my gear values: 150.8 x 2.35 = 354.3. So the final value is 135 + 354.3 = 489.3%.
That makes Damage with Core Skills the most desirable "additive damage stat" for Barbs who run this passive. Always choose that stat over damage vs close, CC'd, bleeding, etc.
Sweet thanks for the tip.
I was just about to start unspeccing this talent because I thought it would only increase the bonus stat in the additive bucket, where i dont have much increases into core skill... Boy was I wrong... Every multiplier can work differently apperently ... Thanks for your testing.
Someone tried to tell me that this is a display error and doesn't function this way and is just a 135% global multiplier but I have not tested the dmg to verify.
DUDE, THANK YOU! After reading and watching many videos, I was always left with the exact questions that you answered. Furthermore, on my character in-game, I was definitely seeing better improvements with gear with stats that is heavily discussed online as inferior stats (which I get is simply just because the % dmg increase was being added to a under-developed damage category) but for future planning and when deciding how to equip several pieces of gear at once and when considering skill changes, I really needed these answers you provided.
Really appreciate it!
YES THANK YOU
I got a bit tired of explaining non-global multipliers in the comments of every guide on this. You're legit the first video (and I watched a boatload of them) that covers it at all, and properly too.
The best in-depth explanation by FAR, hands down.
I finally get it haha. This was such a well done video. Thank you!!
It's nice to have informative information, presented nicely in a video, thanks mate
I would love to see how you’ve set up your spreadsheet for your character
Good to see some of the stuff I've tested line up here. Didn't do nearly as much as you did, so thanks for your work man
They have made this pretty convoluted but thanks for the detailed explanations. Also leave the rants in!
Thanks for your detailed explanation.
I don't get why this needs to be so convoluted... the stat calculations here are more complex as in poe.
Nice. Now I gotta try to figure out how to apply this to minion damage.
Minions benefit from vulnerable damage in full, that's pretty much all you need to know. Unless you have ring of mendeln, which apparently isn't considered minion damage but your own damage, and therefore scales exactly like every other class.
I think I'm ready to take the certification test for D4 damage calculations, thanks.
You really blow me away with these videos. i hope you get 10k subs soon.
your Diablo 4 videos deserves more views man. simple and concise. hope you get mote subs and views cheers!
Fuck yes actual math and science. Thank you for your service.
any chance for a google doc link to that spreadsheet you teased? :) not having to reverse engineer the formulas would be a real plus.
We've heard a lot about damage buckets but, when will we hear about defense buckets?
Armor, armor, armor
They pretty much work like you'd expect them to work, and due to how limited the amounts of defensive rolls you can get are, you'll just be looking to stack as many defensive rolls as you can get with two notable exceptions, which are: Get as much armor as you can, and as little resistances as you can.
If you have really low resistances, like below 30% in the character sheet, you can consider getting some resistance, but it's generally not worth it past what you're getting from amulet and ring implicits anyways.
The part about crit dmg global multipliers only working on base crit and not all crit subtypes is a great find. Seems unintuitive and silly for blizz to design it that way or maybe it was an oversight.. thanks for clearing that up as I was wondering if the sorc passive "Devouring Blaze" worked with lightning crit dmg, guess not :(
That makes total sense that they wouldn't work together
This was certainly one of the most clear videos regarding damage buckets and I’m sure it’s correct but, I can’t help still feeling confused. Is there a equation that we can follow that you could talk us through? Explaining little chunks was ok but I don’t feel I understand how it all fits together.
It’s made hard with learning all of these new terms and trying to listen and read off the screen all at once and visualise and put it all together.
What are the most valuable stats? Obviously they are all useful but I left not fully understanding what weight you would give to certain stats buckets.
Many thanks for your time. 🤗
He has it at the bottom of the screen most of the time.
@@joelwillis2043 he has some of it, not all, which I was referring to. :)
Your work is awesome. Please cover overpower damage.
11:55 - 11:57 i thought as much thanks for confirming. 👍🏿
Brilliantly explained, thank you so much.
11:38 man, I want that spreadsheet lol. Any chance you might import it in to google docs?
exactly what I was looking for too
Consider that critical damage does not include the "normal damage", say you crit for 200, with 100% critical damage, actually 100 is normal damage and 100 is critical damage. Any crit damage multiplier would affect 100 damage, not 200.
PLEASE keep up the amazing work with this content, wow!
Can you do a video on Attack speed? Idk if theirs break points or what the cap is
Dmg modifiers from uniq items (1h sword for barbs for example) act as an additional multiplier as well. Same goes for elixirs vs humans and such. With regard to +all damage on chest/amulet, it also "feels" like a separate multiplier, although its hard to test it out properly
Loved the pacing and your tone. This was very informative even though I thought I knew generally what I was doing it turns out I made some untrue assumptions. The condition multipliers from skills trees that only impact a conditional stat if you HAVE that stat was a real big eye opener as well. Going to have to do some more theory crafting with this new information for sure! Liked and subbed!
I noticed that the retribution aspect only multiplies “damaged to stunned” by 1.4/1.8(if 2h) on the stat sheet. So I spent millions getting gear with “dmg to stunned”. Some others have said they run no dmg to stunned and still get the bonus based on testing, despite the tooltip showing that it only modifies dmg to stunned. Either the tooltip is wrong or they are getting bonuses elsewhere on stunned enemies. I think there has to be more testing on each specific non-global modifier to confirm whether it actually multiplied everything in the additive bucket, or if it only multiplies that condition. Retribution is the highest damage modifier on an aspect available to barb so this has potentially huge implications.
Hey, would you consider creating a resource/spreadsheet explaining which multipliers are global? This completely changes the value of aspects etc
This would be great for me too. Trying to currently reroll a barely lower dps wand for double crit damage, has vulnerable right now and not sure if it is worth using just yet
Your videos are damn good.
Held short and informative. With examples and really nice graphics.
I know how much work goes into this "compressed but well written" work. Well done.
Great video! Very informative.
Have you tested that things like far damage multipliers actually work that way? The stats UI just follows formulas, i.e. Damage vs Distant is simply "(1+Damage_Bonus_To_Far)*(1+Multiplicative_Damage_Bonus_To_Far)-1", but it doesn't necessarily damage calculations do the same.
Not sure if someone else said it, but Rogue Weapon Mastery has a multiplicitive vulnerable skill if you use bows
This is beautiful. Thank you!
Brother, is there any way I can somehow gain access to your series of calculations and input my own stats and find out how bad I've been robbing my own damage with my previously ignorant speccing decisions. I'm scouring my gear, nodes, skills, etc. to get them as even as possible but man its a headache. Thumbs up, subscribed.
I get one piece of usable gear every few days everything else is either sold or broken down. Most gear has absolutely useless combinations of stats that would make them foolish to equip so the grind for a "god roll" piece is worse than farming gear in Borderlands because at least Borderlands had dedicated drops from named mobs...this game has RNG chaos.
One of the best vids I’ve seen on these topics. Like, comment and sub for you 😊👍🏻 hope your channel blows up. Keep up the great work
Okay, I I'm 100% positive that you know what you're talkin about and I'm 100% positive that this is a better video on damage bucket than anything else out there however it's still confusing as f***. I have some gear saved out for my Barbarian and I'd like to upgrade him a little bit I'm trying to figure out this whole bucket thing find out what is more effective but in order to do that I need to understand this better. Would you be interested in doing a livestream where you showcase your talents in this whole bucket deal in a real life example
Thanks for putting these vids out.
So complicated. I wish they'd just list some sort of bucket value so I could know what I'm deficient in. There are so many specific bonus values it's not all that clear what's going where.
Does anyone have any idea how Ultimate Skill damage works? Like why would you take this stat when all other damage boosts will increase that damage anyway.
Thank you so much! Do you have any gear calcs or spreadsheets available? Love you.
Great video.. well done.. subbed
Something to add for Necromancers. Damage increased when you pick up blood orb is another separate multiplicative bucket. Which means necromancer can do more damage than any other class.
🤔
LOVE the videos, thanks a lot! Would you mind releasing the 5min video you talked about in 3:33 ? Really curious about how inaccurate the dmg display you mention is
Thanks! The ultra-condensed version is this: for each hit, it starts with a roll within the weapon damage range - even a 0% range DoT effect still varies +- 20% (so highs are 50% higher than lows) hit to hit based on this weapon range. Tooltip says 1000, no range. Actually rolls between 800-1200. Once it selects that number, it then does a roll within a skill damage range. Skill tooltip shows damage range of 900-1000 means a skill range of +-10%. Stack that on top of the prior numbers, and now you have a roll between 720-1320, despite the tooltip saying 900-1000. The skill tooltips also incorporate SOME additive bonuses, and some multiplicative bonuses, but not all. To get a semblance of a useful number, you have to remove all of these bonuses, except it doesn't tell you which ones are included, so you have to remove all bonuses. Some can't ever be zeroed out (mainstat can't hit 0), so although you can get close, you can't ever get the tooltip to show actual base damage. So if you literally unequip everything, and unlearn every skill, and unlearn every paragon, you still have to divide the displayed number by your remaining mainstat (INT/STR/etc.) to find the actual base damage of the skill that everything is based on.
I don't mind all these calculations but what really triggers me is that some of the stats don't appear in the sheet, so if i wanted to add all my stuff up i have to find it and do it myself :\ it's so frustrating, stuff like the paragon nodes in druid boards "+10% Critical Strike Damage to Crowd Controlled" does not appear in the sheet.
Same with Necromancer, we don't have "Critical Strike Chance with Bone Skills" on the tooltip, just regular "CSC". But we get +4% CSCw/B from a Paragon Rare node with a conditional of +2% more CSCw/B is met. There are entire categories missing and it's crazy because, for example, a bone necro REALLY needs to know his crit chance with his main school lol.
Good video. At least now I don’t feel I need I pHd in math to understand diablo 4
Would the rogue passive Exploit, which says, "You Deal %[x] increased damage to Healthy and Injured enemies" fall under the non-global multiplier category making it useless? I tried testing it outside of town, but nothing changes in my tooltip.
Absolutely. Just like that example at 6:20, with Necro's Death reach passive [x] increase to distant not being a global modifier. It's a passive, so it's part of "stats/aspects/passives" so your assumption is correct, it falls under the non-global multiplier.
@@qweqwe1324 Based on his example, and the wording, I would say you are correct. But, based on actually trying to test it, my dmg seemed to increase significantly from the passive and it doesn't show a change in the stat sheet like it did for him. Which would be more consistent with global multipliers, which don't show in the stat sheet I believe.
About critical damage, so what are TypeCritAdd and ConditionCritAdd exactly? Can you give example for both?
Is TypeCritAdd any affix/aspect that increase typed stats like "Critical Strike Damage with Bone"? 9:21
Is ConditionCritAdd the same but for state like "Critical Strike Damage vs CC"?
You are too clever for people like me. Please simplify. Just say what stats we should prioritise :D
Make sure you have an attack that makes mobs vulnerable and prioritize vulnerable damage. That is the most straightforward damage boost. Next priority is critical damage and then critical chance. That’s the simplest explanation.
The fact that my crit from my Esu's isnt reflected in town makes it super annoying to min max
Can you do one for defensive one please. Such as armor, reduce damage, vs close etc
Working on the research for this one right now, actually!
So should I stack as much vulnerable dmg as possible? Or is it just gonna drop off past 100% ?
Thanks for making this video, will you be creating a document or so to have the damage formula?
Do you happen to have a spreadsheet that I can use to plug the numbers of two weapons in?
I’m simultaneously less confused and more confused after watching.
Crying in my overpower build. Any chance you'll take a look at it?
Is there some type of site where I can plug in my current stats and play around with the values to get an idea of how each stat will affect my overall dmg?
I don't think that non global multiplier thing is true. Otherwise aspect of control would be pretty useless. I tested this with 28.5% damage vs stunned and a 50% aspect of control. Damage vs stunned with both equipped show 92.7% damage vs stunned. against a stunned target alone i averaged 560 damage per hit (avg over 25 hits). Once I equip control I did 840 damage per hit (avg over 25 hits). This is a direct 1.5x multiplier. If instead i calculated with my additives (65% lightning damage, 24% all damage, 71.3% close, 92.7% stunned) using your theory:
(1+.65+.24+.713+.285)=2.88x additive
(1+.65+.24+.713+.927)=3.53x additive
Again with your theory, going from a 2.88x additive to a 3.53x additive is about a 20% increase in damage which would be around 660 damage per hit which is not the case.
Great explanation, thorough breakdown
Few questions. If I do have an ability or skill, such as your example. 12% distant...
I get nothing unless I have that same modifier on a weapon?
So, it's very niche, I not only have to have the item with the correct rolls I want, now I must fit this modifier onto my gear to get any benefit from the 3 skill points I spent?
Does this also work on defensive skills?
If I have spent points on a skill that gives me 3% damage reduction to enemies that are close, do I also have to have a gear piece with that effect to get any benefit?
Is this why everyone believes resistance is broken? We aren't understanding the base mechanic correctly? Lol
No, you don't need to have that same modifier on a weapon, everything is based on your tooltip total of the specific bucket. Let's take the 12%[x] distant scenario. @ 6:20
If you don't have any items that give +% dmg to distant enemies (which is a ADDITIVE category/bucket/group) , that 12%[x] will simply be xAdditive as if it said "12%[+] dmg to distant"
Love the video, subbed immediately.
Question for you or anyone else here: do different crit damage multipliers multiply with each other?
Example is with barb, we have a passive skill called Heavy Handed which increases crit damage by 15%x (at 3/3 points) and is reflected on the character sheet following your formula. We then have the two handed mace expertise which increases crit damage by 15%x to stunned/vulnerable enemies while berserking.
Would the result here be a 1.3225 multiplier to crit damage or just 1.3?
Are main stats actually fully globally multiplicative? E.g. if I have an item that does damage (you deal x fire damage to those around you while berserking, or hitting chilled enemies with a shadow imbued skill creates an explosion for y damage), does my mainstat multiply that? I had been assuming not since it said skills, but haven't tested. Will see if I can test if you haven't.
goat type shit right here
Hi, thanks for the video, very nicely explained. I have seen that the Control Glyph, which increases damage vs Chilled or Frozen, does not increment the Damage vs Frozen stat in the character tab. Maybe it isn't displayed as the increment is exclusive. (Only frozen or chilled)
Do you think it still applies as a NonGlobal multiplier for Damage vs Frozen??
Can you provide a spread sheet on google sheets maybe. :D
Do you think the Rogue's exploit passive (x damage to healthy / injured enemies) is a non global multiplier, and only multiples your bonus against healthy / injured enemies? Rogue's poison imbuement is another tricky one I think that no one has covered or understand how it really work. It says it adds x% of base damage as additional poisoning damage. Would be good to know what multipliers (if any?) work for the 'base damage' of poison imbuement. Combo point bonus seem to increase the poison imbuement damage (but maybe because that's direct % base damage), but have to do more tests if other multipliers work for poisoning damage.
"Do you think the Rogue's exploit passive (x damage to healthy / injured enemies) is a non global multiplier, and only multiples your bonus against healthy / injured enemies?"
Absolutely. Just like that example at 6:20, with Necro's Death reach passive [x] increase to distant not being a global modifier.
I'm unsure about the other question though.
@@qweqwe1324 i don't see exploit multiplying my damage vs injured in the character sheet, though. I have the exact value that is from my item
@@qweqwe1324exploit could follow the behavior that he goes over at 5:27, really though only way is to test it, which isn't that easy due to damage range, and exploit has a low % increase
Much better to get an item with a +3 for malice , that way it's damage vs vulnerable
Also I've noticed when an enemy becomes injured they lose all their buffs , so I wouldn't use any damage vs Injured personally
Where does "enemies take increased damage..." fall? Is it technically a separate 'bucket' since it modifies the damage the enemy receives rather than modifying the damage you are doing?
Any google sheet available for use or ill have to make one :P? Anywyas you deserve likes and subs, i shared already with all my diablo group. Insane work, also in the other videos
is “Core Skill cost 9%[x] more spirit/essence but deal 15%[x] increased damage a global multiplier? Or is it like the distant multiplier you show in the video?
Can you explain how thorns work in D4 since it is not a skill and cannot crit?
great video! one question i still don't understand: is "damage vs vulnerable" the same as "vulnerable damage"? ie. does "damage vs vulnerable" go to the xAdditive section or the xVulnerable section of the formula?
Good question, but at 9:43 he says, "I could not find any effects that are multiplicative here, but there could be one, and it would likely work the same as with Critical Strike DMG"
You can refer back to the CSD section, but since he couldn't find any, I'd take an educated guess that they're both Xadditive section.
@@qweqwe1324 but there he's talking about the additive subsection from xVulnerable. "Vulnerable dmg" def goes into xVulnerable within its additive part, but I'm not convinced about "dmg vs vulnerable". He mentions something about the language used but doesn't differentiate this specific case, or i can't figure it out at least
Do you mind linking the spreadsheet you showed at the very end? Thanks!
Thank you.
bro you gotta make a list of what skills aren't global modifiers, thanks for the info
Very useful info. So if I understand this correctly, having % increased core skill damage on my weapon will stack additively with the generic % skill damage from my main stat and then multiplicatively by a +%(x) core skill damage.
Your main stat is its own bucket, though mind that it's only 10% efficient so 10 main stat only equals 1% increased damage into the mainstat pool. This will multiply to all other sources globally. Your %[+] increased core skill damage (aka damage with core skills) however WILL add to your %[+] increased damage against slowed enemies and %[+] damage while channeling.
So now you've built the total damage formula of MAIN*(WITHadd+WHILEadd)
Say you get a multiplier to core skill damage so %[x] Increased core skill damage, this will multiply with WITHadd but not with anything else so you get
MAIN*(WITHadd*WITHmult+WHILEadd) and not MAIN*(WITHadd+WHILEadd)*WITHmult which is what a lot of other guides imply through not covering that edge case.
I don't understand the calculation you did in 9:10
If everything remains the same except the crit damage multipliers, if you use the simple formula that you crossed out with a red line in 8:05 you would get:
Damage2 = Damage1 * (1 + CritMult) = Damage1 * (1 + 0.30 + 0.36 + 1.08) = Damage1 * 2.74
I don't know where you get the 3.68 or the 3.16. I cannot calculate the formula you say is the correct one because I don't know what values you had in the critAdds during your test.
So if I got this correct to dumb it down you want every “bucket” stat to be around the same rather than having them drastically far apart like 3,3,3,3 than 0,5,2,3
Yes the 0 would be a big damage loss
@@edvaedan9161 why is this so funny lol
I've heard blizzard tooltips are sometimes not even calculating correctly. Was the non global mult only tested with tooltips or actual numbers from abilities?
solid video !got a sub from me look forward to more
I'm so bad at math.
So death's embrace doesn't mean I do 6% more damage to enemies that happen to be "close"? I have zero damage to close on gear.