Apparently, the best way to defend a fortified position is to take all your personnel outside the fortification so they can be killed more easily by your opposition. It's a recurring theme in pop culture representations of battle. Probably because it looks cool.
are you suggesting that sending seasoned cavalry against an undead army of necromancers instead of holding the Dothraki in reserve for a counter-relief force was insane? D&D will have your head, and between you three, yours will be the only one working
@@Snarflelocker Brilliant comment 😂 Yes I'm still mad about GOT, shows like these are few and far between because they are based on very well done books written by exceptional minds. It's been over 5 years and still no show comes close. And it was only the first 4 seasons that were interesting, such a waste!! Unfortunately, as long as commercial interests prioritise short-term profits over creative talent and respect for the original author's vision, nothing good will last.
@@nicosoftnt Stop moping. There were more interesting well-done stuff in GoT than just first 4 seasons. Also, everyone heard precisely these complaints a million times already.
@@yevgeniyaleshchenko849 As you mention, everyone says the same thing so it is a consensus. And yes there is good stuff in later seasons as well, but to a decreasing extent.
@@F0st3rc This show had more than enough money, stop making excuses. The showrunners were dumb and they did a terrible job with the lighting as well as everything else in this battle.
@@StuartEaston23 Who pissed in your cereal? I was just giving my opinion on why the scene was so dark. Not making any excuses, why would I? This season was hot garbage. I’m not in any way defending it, pal
What visuals? The entire scene is black. If you're talking about the lights going out, it honestly isn't really that impactful, especially when you know that sending Calvary directly towards your enemy that outnumbers you is going to end up that way. The ammo counter draining in Aliens 2 has actual 10/10 has more impactful visuals than cannon fodder being mulched in a terrible defense.
@@DamienDarkside yea I just watched the whole show and nobody talked about this scene and how you pretty much can’t see anything unless you yank up the brightness all the way. The night king was such a waste and so was this battle
This whole episode was basically a battle of who’s more idiotic. The dothraki charge right in and get slaughtered. They put trenches behind their infantry which gets countless soliders killed. They hide in a crypt filled with dead bodies from a being that they know can and will raise the dead. Then the night king tposes and stares at Bran for an eternity. His entire purpose as a character is to apparently kill the living and bran is the embodiment of the living. However. he just stares at him for so long that Arya has time to sprint from the library to him. His army tposes and practically rolls out the red carpet for arya to kill their king. Oh and Arya is screeching at the top of her lungs like an idiot to make herself more easily killable. The night king catches arya and holds her in perfect stabbing distance. He literally stares at her dagger the entire time while she drops it and catches it. He watches her kill him while knowing damn well what she’s doing, and practically helps her do it by holding her so close. Both sides are so stupid that they all deserved to lose.
The Dothraki basically a wild living men and the night king and their armies, event the commanders are the death. one side are uneducation men and one side have no brains. lol
@@rayceriotjust because you see some of them alive does not mean they all lived. A minute after this scene you can see a bunch were fleeing back to the line
Almost everything about this is ridiculous. But the visual of seeing the lights get snuffed out like that was great. The way the war cries turn into fear and die off is also great. Plus I love the fact that you can tell the charge is doomed as soon as the two sides meet. The cavalry makes absolutely no progress. They get pushed to a complete stop. Terrifying.
I was gonna say one I need more night vision goggles to see what is happening. But my thing is if your on defense and you have giant castle walls yes dig trenches the works but you want your army mainly inside the castle to help defend against people coming into it! which with the army size easily done!. Then with the dothraki who prefer horseback keep them hidden and let them hit the undead via pincer move. SEVEN HELLS I WANTED THIS FIGHT TO BEE MORE EPIC I enjoyed but but meh..... it's just not what we deserved!
Totally agree. The episode as a whole was a big let down, but everything about that scene was great and was such a strong set up for such a disappointment of a battle.
Agree. I also like that they have the random horses sprinting back in the darkness. None of the soldiers could see what was coming back, so every noise approaching them is palpable.
charge against humans makes sense, they run away, get killed, etc. But horse charge is pointless against the dead who are already dead and can build a wall of themselves, behave like ants. A living wall that can not be killed, I don't know what the Dothraki officers expected
The writers of this episode wanted spectacle, they didn't care about sense. Stupid people are also easier to justify killing quickly, so they could get to their (aborted) Star Wars movie sooner.
Never forget that Ghost is the SOLE SURVIVOR of this charge, making him a greater warrior than the Dothraki, one of the greatest direwolves to ever live, and the bestest good boi a man could ask for.
D&D said originally there was a plan for Nymeria to show up with a huge pack of dozens of direwolves/wolves to help in the battle for the dawn but later removed it because, and I quote, "we didn't think anyone would want to see that". Like, what??? Everyone would have wanted to see that.
In the end they somehow threw all the best ways for the story to develop and end for what? To subvert expectations? I hate them for what they did to this franchise when they became disinterested/bored/wanted another Disney paycheck.
Literally daenarys’ whole army was intact. They really wanted to get it over with. Now you’ve got HotDragons having the song of ice and fire secret passed on from ruler to ruler, big bad of the world. And then this show, ends the big bad of thousands of years, in one night. Did Danny way wrong. Just innately throws out 7 seasons of character building and merciful breaker of chains and liberator of the weak, to then kill the weak and get stabbed in the gut. Fuck the show writers
I mean, abysmal tactics sending your entire cavalry by themselves down the centre of the battlefield towards an enemy they cannot see. But, that aside, the lights going out harked back to the ingenuity that existed in the early seasons, when they didn't have the budget for large battle scenes, and needed to think smartly about ways to affect the audience. This showed the enormity of the task facing our heroes. Made more enormous by chucking away your mobile units in the opening 2 minutes!
@@chinareds54 My guess is you don't know how artillery is used during an attack. Once the Dethraki engaged, they ceased firing. The other point is the Dethraki fight on horseback, and there wasn't room for them inside the walls of Winterfall. They would have been equally as useless if they had just stood and waited for the dead to charge.
if you notice the army of the dead has a frontline consisting entirely of giants waiting to break the dothraki charge. how terrifying that mustve been, charging into an army u cant see on horseback only to see an undead giant greet u with a huge club the moment u get within eyesight
This would've made a lot more sense if the army of the dead came to Winterfell way earlier than expected leaving the Allies with no time to draw up a decent battle plan, like placing the artillery and archers within the walls, splitting the Dothraki into two units, placing them west and east of the battlefield and having them charge into the army of the dead's sides, actually using Dany's dragons etc
There were no 'sides' to the white walkers to go and hit. No formations, no flanks, nothing. It was a tsunami of death. That was the whole point to the scene. The Dothraki are an army second to none, but they are not fighting an army. They are being crashed upon by a wave. Playing armchair general is missing the point entirely: you can't win this fight because it is not even a fight.
@@ItWasSaucerShapedperhaps that’s true but there’s literally no denying that they would’ve done much better had they employed far better tactics. At this point they were just sacrificing to the white walkers
I hope so because in order to force this idea in the show they basically destroyed any logic in a show that has been EXTREMELY real and smart that far. But if you grow smart viewers and then feed them with stupid ideas 'because they look cool'........................ It's the perfect recipe for a disaster, and a disaster it's exactly what we had.
Yeah, it was terrible how they threw away such a potentially amazing battle for a mediocre shot. I can only imagine how heartbreaking it was for this to open the season, and for it to be the highlight, which just goes to show how terrible it went.
@@MrHurricaneFloyd It also showed this ultra-feared swarm of dothraki horseriders that destroy everything in their path, told about in scary stories all across the land because they were so scary and deadly, now enchanted with the magic of fire gods(!!!).....get wiped out in literally under a minute. A terrifying moment that says to the viewer "They're -that- fucked."
I have this awesome idea.. put everyone outside the walls, charge an enemy you can't see, however, don't forget to make sure you have flaming swords so that they can see you charging from a mile away.. also, tell the night king to leave bran alone and not use his dragon to kill him and to stare at bran for a few minutes when he meets him.
I won't try to justify Dumb and Dumber, but, remember, Winterfell (in the TV series) is small and is not meant to hold that many soldiers. Also, the Dothraki don't fight inside walls, they are raiders, and they fight in open fields. Anyways, the right thing to do here was to keep Dothraki far aside in a position and wait to flank supported by Drogon and Dany on top of them. The unsullied could've stayed behind the fire trenches, maybe make different fire trench paths/openings to hold them there, supported by Rhaegal and Jon. Every man not holding a shield would be better inside walls, the majority equipped with bows and a few to help with the retrieve inside the fortress.
@@yoteexplico5308 Don’t try to justify this battle. It is by far among the worst in any form of media. “Winterfell’s too small”. Really? That’s the excuse? Imagine all the men that could’ve been used to hold any breaches if you didn’t leave them outside the wall with spiked trenches at their backs. Imagine all the artillery that still could be used against the ocean of the undead if they weren’t left outside the walls. Imagine how the Night King wouldn’t resurrect all of your fallen to his side of they weren’t left to slaughter OUTSIDE the walls. 🤣
I like how the Dothraki look scared after running into the army of the dead, they finally found something that frightens them, shows that they are not stupid and have never faced an army like this before, they probably all started panicking and breaking ranks causing a complete slaughter which explains the lights going out so fast, then basically a handful are allowed to retreat to show that these guys are unstoppable, now everyone realizes that they are screwed and nobody is safe, a brilliant scene and shows how dangerous the dead really are, anyone that can route and slaughter an entire army of dothraki is not to be triffled with.
Best strategy against the dead would've honestly been: dig a BIG BIG ditch, fill it with spikes and other obstacles and line it with pikeman and archers with dragon glass tips and have a calvary charge come from the side for mop up
Big big wall worked pretty damn good for several thousand years until they gift wrapped them a dragon. This was a pretty terrible battle sequence top to bottom
It'd have to be the mother of all ditches surrounding the entire circumference which they don't have 100 years to make. Their numbers are that vast that it would probably get filled in less than a minute under normal circumstances and time.
I like that small moment between Mel and Grey Worm. They barely know each other, and yet at their possible end they acknowledge one another with respect.
As annoyingly tactically stupid as this is... the atmosphere and tension in this scene is amazing. Viewed in isolation I honestly think this episode is a fantastic piece of survival horror.
maybe before the next fantasy battle someone make a call to a military historian, in lack of which even a kid who has played Medieval total war will be sufficient.
First time seeing it as it aired it was exciting for sure, only afterwards I went...wait a minute, this is very poor strategy. The dragons could have lit up the zombie horde before the charge so at least the Dothraki did not go into it blind.
This scene was clearly written with a visual in mind and while it is visually stunning/creative when the enormous force of warriors we’ve been told to fear since season one are decimated in seconds, it makes absolutely no sense from a tactical standpoint. This for me beautifully epitomises the writing of season 8. I don’t think it’s as terrible as people have made out, but the writers clearly had story beats/visuals, they wanted to create and they would throw out character arc, common sense and reason in order to assure they happened. We want the twins to die together in the castle, we want Dany to become the villain, we want Arya to kill the night king. They had decided these were the plot points they wanted to create and were trying their hardest to shoe horn motivation in.
They threw away 80 thousand veteran cavalry in a direct suicide charge for no reason. They could have easily gotten the same visuals by putting the dothraki in a position where they were surrounded after performing several flanking charges as they are supposed to, and _then_ in a last effort performing their suicide charge. This kind of writing doesn't lend itself to better TV simply because they created some spooky visuals. It needs to be consistent with the writing that came before
Catapults outside the walls, sending your lightly armored calvary into a never ending horde that you can't see. All they did was send their best fearless warriors to their death and give the night king an extra 300 bodies to fight for him. Makes me mad and ruined GOT for me
I’ve noticed this in other series that had a similar fate with GoT, in that they started well but a change in who was writing the scenario resulted in a fiery disaster. The lack of passion or intelligence put into the scenario, with everything story wise becoming dull, actionless, characters becoming idiotic themselves, somehow influences the technical staff, and the lighting becomes lower! This has happened in many instances I’ve noticed. Probably it’s a reflection of how lifeless the story becomes. The director suffer too, however, when such scripts are given to them to work with.
*Sending 10,000 men into an open field against an army of 100,000 that they can't even see to begin with* "It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if pays off for them"
People will hate, but Jorah leading the Dothraki straight into the teeth of the enemy with ghost at his side was hard as fuck. This moment and fighting to the death to protect his queen made him the goat of this episode.
That was kinda the issue, they sacrificed narrative logic and sense for visuals and even then most people could barely see because they made it so dark visually.
Love the "valar morghulis/valar dohaeris" exchange with Grey Worm and Melisandre. It's the only time they ever interact in the whole series and it's fully badass on both ends
only the idiots in the army agreed to this plan..the smarter ones blew the flame off..mid way through the charge and scooted sideways and came back for the after-party!
they say in literally the next episode that half of the dothraki were killed, along with half the northmen and half the unsullied. sick of these comments from people who apparently weren't even watching the show
Werent they beaten by the insullied? Any way they werent the best warrior in every situation, just in a light cavalry role on favorable terrain. They would lose a naval battle to the ironborns for instance
the season was not good, but this scene, this was great. The sheer fear of seeing the torches of that army just go out and give way to darkness and silence.
The last 3 seasons were incredible The cinematography and special effects was top notch, everyone acted their hearts out, the music was outstanding. Everything was good but the story was so fucking bad
@Xb brightest how? It is 100% stupid. Send in all your cavalry alone against an enemy that outnumbers them and will raise them as undead once they're dead. Here take these 1000 dothraki night King. A gift just in case you needed more zombies.
There's so many ways they could have had the same visual and had it made sense. Instead of putting the Dothraki charge at the start of the battle, they could have kept the Dothraki in reserve and waited for the audience to forget about them. Then, when the walls were breached, the Dothraki could have charged, giving the audience false hope that's snuffed out as their lights go out. Instead they made the characters all seem like idiots.
When you have : 2 Dragons , 40,000+ Dhothraki cavalry (with flaming weapons ) , 8,000 Unsullied (with dragon glass), Army of North (10,000+), 10,000 knights of Vale, Other houses, Night,s Watchers, And 1 direwolf .... But you don't have any strategy and watching the entry of whole dead army just sitting on that shit dragons 🙂
The strategy, that was a key part throughout all the series' battles, was absent right in a crucial opportunity to use it properly, knowing damn too well the strongest points of each army
the way the light got snuffed out was so chilling. as much as people hated s8 and this episode’s ending, this is still one of my top fav got episodes of all time. purely from a cinematic standpoint.
I may hate it, but darn it the image of the fire and the Dothraki had being snuffed out in such a quick and large manner til there is only darkness didnt make me have chills.
To this day I firmly believe Jorah got wounded during that unseen battle and that's why he fought as hard as he did. He knew it would be his last battle as he comes back.
I love this scene but the first thing I though is winter fell was surrounded by trees right? They have 2 dragon and 2 light order member who can cast fire right? Ok so why not just burn the whole forest down? Everybody can see better and those white walker would’ve died before reaching any soldier,to be honest even after the first charge fail they can still use the dragon to burn the whole forest down
For the same reason season 8 is considered awful, bad writing. It's good for a scene but it doesn't make sense especially having a lot of experience commanders leading
@@rickbruner5525 that was different, in the face of eminent death they decided to go out like G's charging the enemy instead of waiting to die. what the dothraki did was just throw away their best weapon with no strategy at all
@@silentbutdeadly654 What the Dethraki were going to dismount and go into Winterfall? There wouldn't have been room for them to do anything once there. You going to send them out to try to flank the horde of undead when they can't see them either? Going to have them circle around and try to hit them from behind? Explain for me and show us all your expertise in cavalry tactics. I suppose you also didn't like the Rohirrim charge in Return of the King or the charge of the Winged Hussars at Vienna?
This epic scene inspired me to begin to write fantasy/military fiction. I might be somewhat illiterate, but even I can easily write a scene that makes more sense than that. :)
They could have actually salvaged this scene. Make the Dothraki lead a successful charge at the front. They’re toppling down scores of walkers with their fire and horses. However, just when things are looking well, they realize it’s a distraction. Under the cover of darkness, the main army circles around and continues towards Winterfell.
Hint: if you have a really strong cavalry force (or even just a weak one) dont charge head fucking long into the enemy ESPECIALLY when you have no intel about their formation/weaponry, loosely scattered wights? sure a cavalry charge by the dothraki could probably tear through them, but a solid mass of dead like we see? dothraki essentially useless, even without killing the night king the good guys had the capability to win, place your infantry behind the trench, as they crawl through 1 by 1 the infantry easily kill them, meanwhile the archers slaughter them with fire arrows, AND then have your cavalry cycle charge the rear which is 1 million percent going to be more loose than the front/centre.
Wights will also never break and flee The cinematography is amazing just makes no sense. The dragons should of been blasting them long before they got close also illuminating the battlefield for the artillary to have a reference where they were. The artillary should of been behind the soldiers with the trences in front of them. Dothraki should of been saved for a flanking charge after the battle had already commenced
@@lukevanderlande2488 The other option would be to meet them on an open field in daylight the day before. It would be easy to provoke them into attacking and then charge when there's an opening. They had basically no archers or artillery. The dragon is the only real issue but at least they would have known about the enemies trump card then.
Now instead Imagine this epic cavalry charge was a perfectly timed flanking attack parallel to the walls. Sprung only when the outer defenses were faltering. This truly could have rivaled Helms Deep if they didn't have two egotistical jackasses write the show into a grave.
I agree that it makes more sense for the characters to try the way you're suggesting, but that tactic also would have failed horrifically. The thing is, the Night King can't be tricked like that so easily because he's a greenseer. Yeah, Arya snuck up on him (probably disguised as a wight) and Bran tricked him (pretended to be accepting death), but an entire army can't sneak up on him. Think about it. He knew Dany would come to rescue Jon, and that Jon would need rescuing in the first place, and that's how he could get a dragon and break the Wall. He was just waiting for it to happen, potentially for hundreds or thousands of years *(when you think about it, it adds more meaning to his taunting of Jon at Hardhome).* He also could have just sent scouts, and attacked the Dothraki separately. He would surprise them before they could ever surprise him. *It would at best play out as a moment of false hope, with a surprise attack getting surprise attacked.* haha. Or it would just be a temporary distraction for the wights. The horde seemed almost unending. *It could be a good moment though - nothing wrong with the loss of hope being more gradual (good for pacing).* The initial charge of the wights would be terrifying either way.
Why would you flank an army that has no morale and is literally ten times larger than your force? The entire point of flanking other than an envelopment on a smaller force is to force them to rout due to morale shock. The undead don't have morale. They don't get scared. They don't run. They don't get tired and they never stop unless commanded. The only advantage you have is possibly surprise so that they are unprepared to blunt the attack and that's a big if. Even if you had it there are so many of them a charge itself is just going to be enveloped.
This could've been like a light version of the charge of the Rohirrim, same result without affecting the rest of the battle, but at least it would've been epic
Still don't understand why the writers didn't have Jaime taking a contingent of Lannisters to head north with Jars of wildfire to ambush or use on catapults against the night kings army instead of throwing 1000s of light cavalry to die head on with an undead army. Cause you know having catapults with air support from drogon and rhegal that could've protected them from the dragon behind the front lines was also a dumb idea to dave and dan
On its own, it's a great piece of cinematic horror. The fire lighting up all the cavalry blades, the hopeful charge, the triumphant music, the bird's eye view from Jon and Dany's position. Then the lights slowly go out and it's back to complete darkness. And we are left with a dreadful eerie wait in suspense.The horror elements are great. BUT, within context, it's all one big idiotic mess of garbage writing with zero sensible battle tactics. It's like D&D just wanted a cool shot of the Dothraki charging with their fire blades, but didn't care how utterly stupid that is when you're battling a whole army of the freaking dead who completely outnumber you tenfold.
To play devil’s advocate, yeah it’s stupid to have them charge the Dead, but the Dothraki are FAR more effective in an open field on horseback than sitting in a besieged castle. I just wish the Dothraki were in reserve and attacked the Dead from their flank after the beginning of the siege, that would have at least made sense and you still get a version of this very striking visual with the fires going out.
Jon gave absolutely 0 fucks about Ghost. Threw him on the front lines and when he survived, just gave him away to Tormund. Shitted on the one being who was the most loyal to him
I think in this scene, the horses got their ''well deserved scene" after 8 years of hard work :) They are all a very nice horses, and probably very expensive ones too. It's like a ''horse tribute video'' saying them: Thank You for 8 years! :) Dothraki have no recon units it seems, they just rushed IceCreamKing's army like headless chickens with some fire led effect on their weapons :)
I’ll admit, it looks cool at first glance: The Dothraki charging off into the black, their high-spirited screams echoing throughout the night, only the light of the blazing catapults revealing this silent enemy barreling down towards them. All of a sudden their valorous cries are replaced with screams of terror as they are overcome by what can only be described as a wall of shadow that grows larger with each fallen warrior. Silence falls upon the ears of those at Winterfell after witnessing the last torch get snuffed out. In the end though, it’s all kinda stupid.
Jon Snow, who barely escaped Hardhome, was OK with sending the Dothraki against the Night King’s army - knowing that the Night King could then add the dead to his legion. What a moron. You can make cool visuals without having your characters look like complete idiots. And why would you let your direwolf run into that? Jon didn’t deserve Ghost. What a dummy.
The loss of moral seeing each of those lights go out would have been soul crushing to witness, the few survivors running back would have just put the final nail in the coffin known as confidence.
Better idea: Dig a trenchline, then another trenchline. And if you have time after that, dig more trenchlines. Fill them with obstacles; spikes, fire, spikes on fire, flamable oil etc. Put your infantry BEHIND the trenches and your artillery assets INSIDE the castle. Archers, archers everywhere. All the millions they spent on this show and they couldn't be bothered to talk to someone who knows the most basic military tactics.
Has me convinced the Dothraki had no idea who they were fighting if they were being sent to charge without a weapon that could actually kill white walkers
Imagine if Summer showed up in this fight as a wight and we got to see a fight between him and Ghost. It would’ve been cool if they decided to make that the way he lost his ear.
D&D said originally there was a plan for Nymeria to show up with a huge pack of dozens of direwolves/wolves to help in the battle for the dawn but later removed it because, and I quote, "we didn't think anyone would want to see that". Like, what??? Everyone would have wanted to see that.
Robert: Only a fool would meet the Dothraki in an open field.
Night King: Yeah, about that.
Night King: “What are you going to do, kill us?”
Yeah, but none of them actually died. They showed up in a later episode.
@@toddjones1480 that was just bad writing. The Dothraki and Unsullied got slaughtered. There should not be anyone left
Njght King: Hold my beer 🍺
@@MrKingYuji they left part of their army on dragonstone
Apparently, the best way to defend a fortified position is to take all your personnel outside the fortification so they can be killed more easily by your opposition. It's a recurring theme in pop culture representations of battle. Probably because it looks cool.
lmao ikr. I guess ill just make my light cavalry that is outnumbered charge a MUCH larger force.
I love how they even state this plan wouldn't work with all them out in the open *proceeds to do it anyway*
It worked for the Genoese mercenaries at Constantinople. They held off the ottomans for 6 weeks anyway.
They are fighting the dead, there is no space to fight the dead inside the castle
@@NeoclassicalRadagastlol this is a horde of dead men with zero fear and with giants amongst them
They blew the chance to make one of the greatest combat scene in the history for a tv show.
I loved how they Alfred Hitchcocked it though.
Battle of the bastards was better
@@maidenaholic agreed , even Stannis attacking KL nd Tyrion defending with wildfire was amazing too
@@DespicableMe007 all great battles.. couldn't believe the one we waited 8 seasons for was a complete failure
@@maidenaholic totally agreed , we all were soo hyped that we could see prolly the "greatest battle in television history" and it turned super flop
“We can’t beat them in a straight fight”
-Proceeds to face them in a straight fight using every tactical error imaginable
are you suggesting that sending seasoned cavalry against an undead army of necromancers instead of holding the Dothraki in reserve for a counter-relief force was insane? D&D will have your head, and between you three, yours will be the only one working
@@Snarflelocker Brilliant comment 😂 Yes I'm still mad about GOT, shows like these are few and far between because they are based on very well done books written by exceptional minds. It's been over 5 years and still no show comes close. And it was only the first 4 seasons that were interesting, such a waste!!
Unfortunately, as long as commercial interests prioritise short-term profits over creative talent and respect for the original author's vision, nothing good will last.
@@nicosoftnt Stop moping. There were more interesting well-done stuff in GoT than just first 4 seasons. Also, everyone heard precisely these complaints a million times already.
@@yevgeniyaleshchenko849 As you mention, everyone says the same thing so it is a consensus.
And yes there is good stuff in later seasons as well, but to a decreasing extent.
Plot twist: White Walkers came this long way just to battle Dothraki and show everyone that their infantry can defeat Dothraki in open field
Years later I’ve realized one thing.... i still cant see what the hell is even going on
Yeah most of this scene was too fucking dark. Really ruined it.
Why it's so dark?
Well to hide the shit$ CGI from the viewers.
They likely didn’t have the budget for such a huge battle. Dark movies, everyone does it. Saves money. Just watch at night in a completely dark room.
@@F0st3rc This show had more than enough money, stop making excuses. The showrunners were dumb and they did a terrible job with the lighting as well as everything else in this battle.
@@StuartEaston23 Who pissed in your cereal? I was just giving my opinion on why the scene was so dark. Not making any excuses, why would I? This season was hot garbage. I’m not in any way defending it, pal
The visuals: 10/10
The music: 10/10
The acting: 10/10
The strategy: lol
What visuals? The entire scene is black. If you're talking about the lights going out, it honestly isn't really that impactful, especially when you know that sending Calvary directly towards your enemy that outnumbers you is going to end up that way.
The ammo counter draining in Aliens 2 has actual 10/10 has more impactful visuals than cannon fodder being mulched in a terrible defense.
The music was boring. If you look up the battle music in lotr you might remember how impactful it can be if chosen correctly.
@@AliasSchmalias I hope that by LOTR you mean the original Peter Jackson trilogy because the new series is absolute garbage.
@@DamienDarkside yea I just watched the whole show and nobody talked about this scene and how you pretty much can’t see anything unless you yank up the brightness all the way. The night king was such a waste and so was this battle
Leroy Jenkins’d it
Sending Dothraki in charge against the night king is like sending him reinforcements 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hahahahaha
Hahahahahah😂
Bro... That was EXACTLY what they did!!!😅😅😅
It begs the question: How come the initial attack against the Winterfell defenders wasn’t several thousand undead Dothraki on undead horses?
Yep!!!!
This whole episode was basically a battle of who’s more idiotic. The dothraki charge right in and get slaughtered. They put trenches behind their infantry which gets countless soliders killed. They hide in a crypt filled with dead bodies from a being that they know can and will raise the dead.
Then the night king tposes and stares at Bran for an eternity. His entire purpose as a character is to apparently kill the living and bran is the embodiment of the living. However. he just stares at him for so long that Arya has time to sprint from the library to him. His army tposes and practically rolls out the red carpet for arya to kill their king. Oh and Arya is screeching at the top of her lungs like an idiot to make herself more easily killable. The night king catches arya and holds her in perfect stabbing distance. He literally stares at her dagger the entire time while she drops it and catches it. He watches her kill him while knowing damn well what she’s doing, and practically helps her do it by holding her so close. Both sides are so stupid that they all deserved to lose.
The Dothraki basically a wild living men and the night king and their armies, event the commanders are the death. one side are uneducation men and one side have no brains. lol
I'll always wonder what was the point of Bran and the Night King just staring at each other for 20 minutes for absolutely no reason 😭
The real stupidest side is the writers.
But don't you realize? Making a logical ending didn't FEEL right to Benioff.
Valar Morghulis
Just imagine the fear in the mind of the other soldiers seeing one of the most deadly army on their continent getting decimated in just a few moments
they simply use light cavalry in the wrong way.
they pulled an AI in total war, all the main characters survive though 🤣
And then they all are alive the next episode somehow
@@Person0fColor4 or 5 main characters died in that battle which is a lot.
@@rayceriotjust because you see some of them alive does not mean they all lived. A minute after this scene you can see a bunch were fleeing back to the line
Almost everything about this is ridiculous. But the visual of seeing the lights get snuffed out like that was great. The way the war cries turn into fear and die off is also great. Plus I love the fact that you can tell the charge is doomed as soon as the two sides meet. The cavalry makes absolutely no progress. They get pushed to a complete stop. Terrifying.
I was gonna say one I need more night vision goggles to see what is happening. But my thing is if your on defense and you have giant castle walls yes dig trenches the works but you want your army mainly inside the castle to help defend against people coming into it! which with the army size easily done!. Then with the dothraki who prefer horseback keep them hidden and let them hit the undead via pincer move. SEVEN HELLS I WANTED THIS FIGHT TO BEE MORE EPIC I enjoyed but but meh..... it's just not what we deserved!
Totally agree. The episode as a whole was a big let down, but everything about that scene was great and was such a strong set up for such a disappointment of a battle.
Agree. I also like that they have the random horses sprinting back in the darkness. None of the soldiers could see what was coming back, so every noise approaching them is palpable.
charge against humans makes sense, they run away, get killed, etc. But horse charge is pointless against the dead who are already dead and can build a wall of themselves, behave like ants. A living wall that can not be killed, I don't know what the Dothraki officers expected
The writers of this episode wanted spectacle, they didn't care about sense. Stupid people are also easier to justify killing quickly, so they could get to their (aborted) Star Wars movie sooner.
Never forget that Ghost is the SOLE SURVIVOR of this charge, making him a greater warrior than the Dothraki, one of the greatest direwolves to ever live, and the bestest good boi a man could ask for.
ser jorah also returned back
@Xb that’s amazing
@@rajaykolhapurkar1412 true
@@rajaykolhapurkar1412 I think what the OP meant is that Ghost is the only one who survived in the end.
Tons of Dothraki survived, hundreds of them actually. Jorah also survived. Love ghost but foolish statement.
D&D said originally there was a plan for Nymeria to show up with a huge pack of dozens of direwolves/wolves to help in the battle for the dawn but later removed it because, and I quote, "we didn't think anyone would want to see that". Like, what??? Everyone would have wanted to see that.
Wow wtf
It would make sense those pack make entrance when Arya strangle by Night King
In the end they somehow threw all the best ways for the story to develop and end for what? To subvert expectations? I hate them for what they did to this franchise when they became disinterested/bored/wanted another Disney paycheck.
I would guess the real reason was budget. The CG elements for those direwolves was extremely expensive because of the fur detail and physics.
at this point anything would have been better then what they actually ended up doing
how to demoralize your entire army 101
Dont worry they respawned at the gates of kings landing some days later
Literally daenarys’ whole army was intact. They really wanted to get it over with. Now you’ve got HotDragons having the song of ice and fire secret passed on from ruler to ruler, big bad of the world. And then this show, ends the big bad of thousands of years, in one night. Did Danny way wrong. Just innately throws out 7 seasons of character building and merciful breaker of chains and liberator of the weak, to then kill the weak and get stabbed in the gut. Fuck the show writers
FR-- I was rewatching that scene and was like "wait aren't they all dead-- ah pshhhh.... must have infinite HP or smthg"
I mean, abysmal tactics sending your entire cavalry by themselves down the centre of the battlefield towards an enemy they cannot see. But, that aside, the lights going out harked back to the ingenuity that existed in the early seasons, when they didn't have the budget for large battle scenes, and needed to think smartly about ways to affect the audience. This showed the enormity of the task facing our heroes. Made more enormous by chucking away your mobile units in the opening 2 minutes!
The fuckers were going to charge with weapons that do nothing too so stupid yet epic
@@jessewright5604 not much else could he done. Jon knew the battle was near impossible.
Not to mention, let's fire our catapults while the riders are charging directly toward the point where the you're launching the fireballs.
@@chinareds54 My guess is you don't know how artillery is used during an attack. Once the Dethraki engaged, they ceased firing. The other point is the Dethraki fight on horseback, and there wasn't room for them inside the walls of Winterfall. They would have been equally as useless if they had just stood and waited for the dead to charge.
Dothraki fight best in an open field. Khaleesi used them to their strength but even Dothraki are no match to the undead.
if you notice the army of the dead has a frontline consisting entirely of giants waiting to break the dothraki charge. how terrifying that mustve been, charging into an army u cant see on horseback only to see an undead giant greet u with a huge club the moment u get within eyesight
Nice never actually noticed that. Mostly because it was too freaking dark lol
That was the one giant Only. At most, might be a handful of others but that’s it
@@shaman8375 there was millions of them
@@silentbutdeadly654 millions? Haha there nearly all but extinct. Handful at most
@@shaman8375 billions
Yet she had enough left to storm King's Landing with 3 episodes later.
No need to spoiler
I know GOT is old i seen it years ago and watched again it again. Im currently on this episode
That one poor guy who still had his sickle sheathed when it lit up: Eeeeehhh!!!
@@IsaiahRichards692 lolwait, timestamp? err- also where's he at in the frame? I never spotted that. lmao
@@MadProphet Of course they didn’t consider that when they made the episode but can you imagine?
This would've made a lot more sense if the army of the dead came to Winterfell way earlier than expected leaving the Allies with no time to draw up a decent battle plan, like placing the artillery and archers within the walls, splitting the Dothraki into two units, placing them west and east of the battlefield and having them charge into the army of the dead's sides, actually using Dany's dragons etc
That's exactly how I said it should go. They were half-prepared.
@@ryanwebb5082 they weren't half prepared. They were written by idiots who need to go back to school
That would have required good writing.
There were no 'sides' to the white walkers to go and hit. No formations, no flanks, nothing. It was a tsunami of death.
That was the whole point to the scene. The Dothraki are an army second to none, but they are not fighting an army. They are being crashed upon by a wave.
Playing armchair general is missing the point entirely: you can't win this fight because it is not even a fight.
@@ItWasSaucerShapedperhaps that’s true but there’s literally no denying that they would’ve done much better had they employed far better tactics. At this point they were just sacrificing to the white walkers
I love that Ghost is a part of the cavalry charge but also wish we saw him come back and got more screen time
The moment you see how the lights of fire swords start to disappear is always sending shivers down my spine
I hope so because in order to force this idea in the show they basically destroyed any logic in a show that has been EXTREMELY real and smart that far.
But if you grow smart viewers and then feed them with stupid ideas 'because they look cool'........................
It's the perfect recipe for a disaster, and a disaster it's exactly what we had.
@@ramboyearone yeah the show was good until season 6 and half or smth, after that it went downhill
This scene honestly broke my heart.
Same. I remember how shocked I was when all of their flames disappeared, but I was happy to see Jorah & Ghost.
Yeah, it was terrible how they threw away such a potentially amazing battle for a mediocre shot. I can only imagine how heartbreaking it was for this to open the season, and for it to be the highlight, which just goes to show how terrible it went.
It broke my brain
@@MrHurricaneFloyd
Nah, it was just gay and retarded.
@@MrHurricaneFloyd It also showed this ultra-feared swarm of dothraki horseriders that destroy everything in their path, told about in scary stories all across the land because they were so scary and deadly, now enchanted with the magic of fire gods(!!!).....get wiped out in literally under a minute. A terrifying moment that says to the viewer "They're -that- fucked."
I have this awesome idea.. put everyone outside the walls, charge an enemy you can't see, however, don't forget to make sure you have flaming swords so that they can see you charging from a mile away.. also, tell the night king to leave bran alone and not use his dragon to kill him and to stare at bran for a few minutes when he meets him.
I won't try to justify Dumb and Dumber, but, remember, Winterfell (in the TV series) is small and is not meant to hold that many soldiers. Also, the Dothraki don't fight inside walls, they are raiders, and they fight in open fields. Anyways, the right thing to do here was to keep Dothraki far aside in a position and wait to flank supported by Drogon and Dany on top of them. The unsullied could've stayed behind the fire trenches, maybe make different fire trench paths/openings to hold them there, supported by Rhaegal and Jon. Every man not holding a shield would be better inside walls, the majority equipped with bows and a few to help with the retrieve inside the fortress.
@@yoteexplico5308 Don’t try to justify this battle. It is by far among the worst in any form of media. “Winterfell’s too small”. Really? That’s the excuse? Imagine all the men that could’ve been used to hold any breaches if you didn’t leave them outside the wall with spiked trenches at their backs. Imagine all the artillery that still could be used against the ocean of the undead if they weren’t left outside the walls. Imagine how the Night King wouldn’t resurrect all of your fallen to his side of they weren’t left to slaughter OUTSIDE the walls. 🤣
4:29 Jorah seeing the script for this battle
I like how the Dothraki look scared after running into the army of the dead, they finally found something that frightens them, shows that they are not stupid and have never faced an army like this before, they probably all started panicking and breaking ranks causing a complete slaughter which explains the lights going out so fast, then basically a handful are allowed to retreat to show that these guys are unstoppable, now everyone realizes that they are screwed and nobody is safe, a brilliant scene and shows how dangerous the dead really are, anyone that can route and slaughter an entire army of dothraki is not to be triffled with.
Best strategy against the dead would've honestly been: dig a BIG BIG ditch, fill it with spikes and other obstacles and line it with pikeman and archers with dragon glass tips and have a calvary charge come from the side for mop up
Big big wall worked pretty damn good for several thousand years until they gift wrapped them a dragon. This was a pretty terrible battle sequence top to bottom
It'd have to be the mother of all ditches surrounding the entire circumference which they don't have 100 years to make. Their numbers are that vast that it would probably get filled in less than a minute under normal circumstances and time.
@@Solihul886 True, but it still would have been better than standing out in front of the walls.
Yeah, that was just silly.
That’s also the best strategy against the living
I like that small moment between Mel and Grey Worm. They barely know each other, and yet at their possible end they acknowledge one another with respect.
King Robert: Only a fool would meet the Dothraki in an open field
Night King: Hold my ice tea
🤣🤣🤣
As annoyingly tactically stupid as this is... the atmosphere and tension in this scene is amazing. Viewed in isolation I honestly think this episode is a fantastic piece of survival horror.
So true
Excellent production value...idiotic writing.
Yep watching it live was an amazing experience, felt the cold in my own house, it’s as you think about it after watching it that you see all the flaws
maybe before the next fantasy battle someone make a call to a military historian, in lack of which even a kid who has played Medieval total war will be sufficient.
First time seeing it as it aired it was exciting for sure, only afterwards I went...wait a minute, this is very poor strategy. The dragons could have lit up the zombie horde before the charge so at least the Dothraki did not go into it blind.
next level writing, sending light cav in the dark, direct attack, genius
and somehow enough of them survived to have been a threat to bran if he didnt banish jon to the north...
Sending light cavalry into the dark makes sense to me, how else would they be able to see?
@@Waywind420 He means light as in lightweight. They're not wearing armor.
@@Waywind420 By not sending them at all against an army of zombies who won't get scared of a cavalry charge.
This scene was clearly written with a visual in mind and while it is visually stunning/creative when the enormous force of warriors we’ve been told to fear since season one are decimated in seconds, it makes absolutely no sense from a tactical standpoint. This for me beautifully epitomises the writing of season 8. I don’t think it’s as terrible as people have made out, but the writers clearly had story beats/visuals, they wanted to create and they would throw out character arc, common sense and reason in order to assure they happened. We want the twins to die together in the castle, we want Dany to become the villain, we want Arya to kill the night king. They had decided these were the plot points they wanted to create and were trying their hardest to shoe horn motivation in.
The dothraki were horse people This was the only way to let them fight with their style.
The scene sent shivers down my spine...
I wanted Jon to kill the night king, or at least have them do it together
They threw away 80 thousand veteran cavalry in a direct suicide charge for no reason. They could have easily gotten the same visuals by putting the dothraki in a position where they were surrounded after performing several flanking charges as they are supposed to, and _then_ in a last effort performing their suicide charge.
This kind of writing doesn't lend itself to better TV simply because they created some spooky visuals. It needs to be consistent with the writing that came before
@@sam23696 even then the same visual could have been achieved with some camera panning from up high on the flankers as the fire goes out.
We wanted Jon to kill the night king ??? They literally hinted at it so many times 😭😩
Using the cavalry in that manner was ridiculous. Most of this defense was ridiculous.
I mean, the entire episode was ridiculous
That whole show was ridiculous
@@PrvnCoke season 7 and 8***
Catapults outside the walls, sending your lightly armored calvary into a never ending horde that you can't see. All they did was send their best fearless warriors to their death and give the night king an extra 300 bodies to fight for him. Makes me mad and ruined GOT for me
@@TateAnakov true
She is lucky to have an army like the Dothraki that can spontaneously regenerate over time.
Loved how they made it so dark you couldn’t see anything 😻😻😻
I’ve noticed this in other series that had a similar fate with GoT, in that they started well but a change in who was writing the scenario resulted in a fiery disaster. The lack of passion or intelligence put into the scenario, with everything story wise becoming dull, actionless, characters becoming idiotic themselves, somehow influences the technical staff, and the lighting becomes lower! This has happened in many instances I’ve noticed. Probably it’s a reflection of how lifeless the story becomes. The director suffer too, however, when such scripts are given to them to work with.
*Sending 10,000 men into an open field against an army of 100,000 that they can't even see to begin with*
"It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if pays off for them"
PEPPER NEEDS NEW SHORTS!
They can't see and have remote chance of killing even in even numbers fight...
People will hate, but Jorah leading the Dothraki straight into the teeth of the enemy with ghost at his side was hard as fuck. This moment and fighting to the death to protect his queen made him the goat of this episode.
Jorah was one of the most mightiest warriors seeing him SO AFRAID would of probably broke me in battle.
Absolutely! Well said mate! 😊
It’s cool but the strategy behind it is so fucking stupid.
Jorah was a simp
That was kinda the issue, they sacrificed narrative logic and sense for visuals and even then most people could barely see because they made it so dark visually.
The army of the dead, the only army to meet the Dothraki in an open field in the dead of night and during a snow storm and basically win
Sun Tzu wrote "The Art of War" in 500 BC.
People in 501 BC:
lool
You meant 499 BC.
@@WatermelonCat-yc4bq no
@@SCP_Foundation_Spokesperson Yes!
@@WatermelonCat-yc4bq What year came after 501 BC?
Don’t worry, they all respawned 3 episodes later 😂😂😂
This was one of the most epic scenes of the show and it meant nothing… classic GOT shit
It more like Bad writing by D&D
What scene? All I see is black.
@@accessdenied5998 ..that's what OP meant.
Love the "valar morghulis/valar dohaeris" exchange with Grey Worm and Melisandre. It's the only time they ever interact in the whole series and it's fully badass on both ends
No it ain’t lmaoooo
2:26 🔥🔥🔥 when ghost appears…..he may not always around but always there when it counts the most. Living up to his name
it's amazing how your whole army of Dothraki can get mauled to death and then respawn just 1 or 2 episodes later....😂
Same lmfao the fact you don't even see a single alive dothraki man fighting against the dead inside the winterfell gates
only the idiots in the army agreed to this plan..the smarter ones blew the flame off..mid way through the charge and scooted sideways and came back for the after-party!
they say in literally the next episode that half of the dothraki were killed, along with half the northmen and half the unsullied. sick of these comments from people who apparently weren't even watching the show
@@comp.lex4it’s just a bunch of people that bandwagon off of others peoples opinions because it’s hard for them to gather an opinion for themselves.
for some reason everybody becomes invincible and the dothraki’s just magically respawned after this 😂
The toughest warriors on the planet decimated within minutes. Gut wrenching scene
Don’t worry they come back two episodes later to attack Kings Landing
@@MrKingYuji 🗿
Yeah the writers are the real enemy
Werent they beaten by the insullied?
Any way they werent the best warrior in every situation, just in a light cavalry role on favorable terrain.
They would lose a naval battle to the ironborns for instance
The toughest Warriors on the planet were the infantry holding the line so others could retreat back.
the season was not good, but this scene, this was great. The sheer fear of seeing the torches of that army just go out and give way to darkness and silence.
@Derek Cassady Haha yeah it was like a fucking tsunami!
The last 3 seasons were incredible
The cinematography and special effects was top notch, everyone acted their hearts out, the music was outstanding. Everything was good but the story was so fucking bad
Yeah but it's dumb how only jorah survives with his dumbass plot armour. Pointless.
this scene gives many good emotions, but there is a fact, cavalry doesn’t charge against the enemys front line
@@Echoplex25 to what could have been the greatest show ever🥲
How Ghost never got ripped apart straight away is bewildering and a blessing all at once
Dumbest tactics ever
@Xb brightest how? It is 100% stupid. Send in all your cavalry alone against an enemy that outnumbers them and will raise them as undead once they're dead.
Here take these 1000 dothraki night King. A gift just in case you needed more zombies.
Bcs stupid jon snow made this strategy.
@@luka-l3m1l Because stupid D&D wrote this strategy.
@Monster12367
They literally won thanks to the power of plot armor
Admit it, you were very nervous when you watched the episode for the first time, in the part where silence begins.
Its a complete Bullshit.
I thought the night king would actually win and without plot armour there’s no way he shouldn’t have won that battle
The starting 10 minutes were truly scary
It still gives me goosebumps. They did a great job visually
And yet a few episodes later, there’s another huge army of Dothraki at Kings Landing 😂
Ghost's little startled hop when the blades lit up was cute
There's so many ways they could have had the same visual and had it made sense. Instead of putting the Dothraki charge at the start of the battle, they could have kept the Dothraki in reserve and waited for the audience to forget about them. Then, when the walls were breached, the Dothraki could have charged, giving the audience false hope that's snuffed out as their lights go out. Instead they made the characters all seem like idiots.
Idk if y’all saw it but Jorah was slowing down his horse . Dude knew that being at the front was a very bad idea .
When you have :
2 Dragons ,
40,000+ Dhothraki cavalry (with flaming weapons ) ,
8,000 Unsullied (with dragon glass),
Army of North (10,000+),
10,000 knights of Vale,
Other houses,
Night,s Watchers,
And 1 direwolf
.... But you don't have any strategy and watching the entry of whole dead army just sitting on that shit dragons 🙂
The strategy, that was a key part throughout all the series' battles, was absent right in a crucial opportunity to use it properly, knowing damn too well the strongest points of each army
the way the light got snuffed out was so chilling. as much as people hated s8 and this episode’s ending, this is still one of my top fav got episodes of all time. purely from a cinematic standpoint.
2:30 the expression in Ghost face still gave me chills!!
I may hate it, but darn it the image of the fire and the Dothraki had being snuffed out in such a quick and large manner til there is only darkness didnt make me have chills.
To this day I firmly believe Jorah got wounded during that unseen battle and that's why he fought as hard as he did. He knew it would be his last battle as he comes back.
Production crew did an excellent job with the lighting..
-No one
This season wasn’t nothing to ride home about, but holy fuck when all those torches just dwindled I damn near shit my pants
That poor First Dothraki guy had to face giant white walker 🤣🤣🤣 lol
Giant Walker not Giant White Walker
giant wight
I love this scene but the first thing I though is winter fell was surrounded by trees right? They have 2 dragon and 2 light order member who can cast fire right? Ok so why not just burn the whole forest down? Everybody can see better and those white walker would’ve died before reaching any soldier,to be honest even after the first charge fail they can still use the dragon to burn the whole forest down
For the same reason season 8 is considered awful, bad writing. It's good for a scene but it doesn't make sense especially having a lot of experience commanders leading
@@jdelgado216 Jorah was the only leader who went with the Dethraki, I guess you hated the charge of the Rohirrim in Lord of the Rings too?
Yea but that’s actually good writing. And this season isn’t capable of that 🤣
@@rickbruner5525 that was different, in the face of eminent death they decided to go out like G's charging the enemy instead of waiting to die. what the dothraki did was just throw away their best weapon with no strategy at all
@@silentbutdeadly654 What the Dethraki were going to dismount and go into Winterfall? There wouldn't have been room for them to do anything once there. You going to send them out to try to flank the horde of undead when they can't see them either? Going to have them circle around and try to hit them from behind? Explain for me and show us all your expertise in cavalry tactics. I suppose you also didn't like the Rohirrim charge in Return of the King or the charge of the Winged Hussars at Vienna?
0:44 tormund be like: “wtf? i want that blazing arakh too!” 😂
How many volley we should fire ?-Once is enough 🤣🤣😅😅
That scene gave me the most uncomfortable chills when I first watched this
This epic scene inspired me to begin to write fantasy/military fiction.
I might be somewhat illiterate, but even I can easily write a scene that makes more sense than that. :)
They could have actually salvaged this scene. Make the Dothraki lead a successful charge at the front. They’re toppling down scores of walkers with their fire and horses. However, just when things are looking well, they realize it’s a distraction. Under the cover of darkness, the main army circles around and continues towards Winterfell.
But then the main army risks getting hit in the back by the dothrak
Hint: if you have a really strong cavalry force (or even just a weak one) dont charge head fucking long into the enemy ESPECIALLY when you have no intel about their formation/weaponry, loosely scattered wights? sure a cavalry charge by the dothraki could probably tear through them, but a solid mass of dead like we see? dothraki essentially useless, even without killing the night king the good guys had the capability to win, place your infantry behind the trench, as they crawl through 1 by 1 the infantry easily kill them, meanwhile the archers slaughter them with fire arrows, AND then have your cavalry cycle charge the rear which is 1 million percent going to be more loose than the front/centre.
Wights will also never break and flee
The cinematography is amazing just makes no sense. The dragons should of been blasting them long before they got close also illuminating the battlefield for the artillary to have a reference where they were. The artillary should of been behind the soldiers with the trences in front of them. Dothraki should of been saved for a flanking charge after the battle had already commenced
@@lukevanderlande2488 The other option would be to meet them on an open field in daylight the day before. It would be easy to provoke them into attacking and then charge when there's an opening. They had basically no archers or artillery. The dragon is the only real issue but at least they would have known about the enemies trump card then.
Now instead Imagine this epic cavalry charge was a perfectly timed flanking attack parallel to the walls. Sprung only when the outer defenses were faltering. This truly could have rivaled Helms Deep if they didn't have two egotistical jackasses write the show into a grave.
I agree that it makes more sense for the characters to try the way you're suggesting, but that tactic also would have failed horrifically.
The thing is, the Night King can't be tricked like that so easily because he's a greenseer. Yeah, Arya snuck up on him (probably disguised as a wight) and Bran tricked him (pretended to be accepting death), but an entire army can't sneak up on him.
Think about it. He knew Dany would come to rescue Jon, and that Jon would need rescuing in the first place, and that's how he could get a dragon and break the Wall. He was just waiting for it to happen, potentially for hundreds or thousands of years *(when you think about it, it adds more meaning to his taunting of Jon at Hardhome).*
He also could have just sent scouts, and attacked the Dothraki separately. He would surprise them before they could ever surprise him.
*It would at best play out as a moment of false hope, with a surprise attack getting surprise attacked.* haha. Or it would just be a temporary distraction for the wights. The horde seemed almost unending. *It could be a good moment though - nothing wrong with the loss of hope being more gradual (good for pacing).* The initial charge of the wights would be terrifying either way.
Why would you flank an army that has no morale and is literally ten times larger than your force? The entire point of flanking other than an envelopment on a smaller force is to force them to rout due to morale shock. The undead don't have morale. They don't get scared. They don't run. They don't get tired and they never stop unless commanded. The only advantage you have is possibly surprise so that they are unprepared to blunt the attack and that's a big if. Even if you had it there are so many of them a charge itself is just going to be enveloped.
I still remember the goosebumps it gave
This could've been like a light version of the charge of the Rohirrim, same result without affecting the rest of the battle, but at least it would've been epic
Still don't understand why the writers didn't have Jaime taking a contingent of Lannisters to head north with Jars of wildfire to ambush or use on catapults against the night kings army instead of throwing 1000s of light cavalry to die head on with an undead army.
Cause you know having catapults with air support from drogon and rhegal that could've protected them from the dragon behind the front lines was also a dumb idea to dave and dan
Jon Snow: We can’t beat them in a straight fight
Dothraki: LEEEERROOOOOYYYYY JEEEENNNKIIIINNNNSSSS
On its own, it's a great piece of cinematic horror. The fire lighting up all the cavalry blades, the hopeful charge, the triumphant music, the bird's eye view from Jon and Dany's position. Then the lights slowly go out and it's back to complete darkness. And we are left with a dreadful eerie wait in suspense.The horror elements are great. BUT, within context, it's all one big idiotic mess of garbage writing with zero sensible battle tactics. It's like D&D just wanted a cool shot of the Dothraki charging with their fire blades, but didn't care how utterly stupid that is when you're battling a whole army of the freaking dead who completely outnumber you tenfold.
The look on their faces at the end as if they expected another outcome!
I remember when this episode came out, and it definitively killed the show overnight.
Dude, the soundstack is LIT! No pun intended.
The torches going out. Such a simple special effect, but here, chillingly effective
Now listen! This was stupid strategic, but also an incredible epic charge with epic music!
the funniest thing about this is how extremely degenerate people will defend this scene, put these people in jail.
what?
To play devil’s advocate, yeah it’s stupid to have them charge the Dead, but the Dothraki are FAR more effective in an open field on horseback than sitting in a besieged castle. I just wish the Dothraki were in reserve and attacked the Dead from their flank after the beginning of the siege, that would have at least made sense and you still get a version of this very striking visual with the fires going out.
Jon gave absolutely 0 fucks about Ghost. Threw him on the front lines and when he survived, just gave him away to Tormund. Shitted on the one being who was the most loyal to him
The Dothraki did: Yallalalalalala !!!
The Night King did: WOLOLO ! 💙
Coldest scene of got . In this scene we realised that even the greatest army dothrakies couldn't do anything against the dead😢
The dothraci Lights going out in seconds was fire and gave you the thrill of fear
I think in this scene, the horses got their ''well deserved scene" after 8 years of hard work :) They are all a very nice horses, and probably very expensive ones too. It's like a ''horse tribute video'' saying them: Thank You for 8 years! :) Dothraki have no recon units it seems, they just rushed IceCreamKing's army like headless chickens with some fire led effect on their weapons :)
I’ll admit, it looks cool at first glance: The Dothraki charging off into the black, their high-spirited screams echoing throughout the night, only the light of the blazing catapults revealing this silent enemy barreling down towards them. All of a sudden their valorous cries are replaced with screams of terror as they are overcome by what can only be described as a wall of shadow that grows larger with each fallen warrior. Silence falls upon the ears of those at Winterfell after witnessing the last torch get snuffed out.
In the end though, it’s all kinda stupid.
Jon Snow, who barely escaped Hardhome, was OK with sending the Dothraki against the Night King’s army - knowing that the Night King could then add the dead to his legion. What a moron. You can make cool visuals without having your characters look like complete idiots.
And why would you let your direwolf run into that? Jon didn’t deserve Ghost. What a dummy.
The loss of moral seeing each of those lights go out would have been soul crushing to witness, the few survivors running back would have just put the final nail in the coffin known as confidence.
“Never meet them on an open battlefield” I guess night king don’t gaf
They couldn’t see anything lol
12,000 Dothraki vs 100,000 undead🤷🏽♂️
Better idea: Dig a trenchline, then another trenchline. And if you have time after that, dig more trenchlines. Fill them with obstacles; spikes, fire, spikes on fire, flamable oil etc.
Put your infantry BEHIND the trenches and your artillery assets INSIDE the castle.
Archers, archers everywhere.
All the millions they spent on this show and they couldn't be bothered to talk to someone who knows the most basic military tactics.
Has me convinced the Dothraki had no idea who they were fighting if they were being sent to charge without a weapon that could actually kill white walkers
I’m sorry but the stress I felt for Ser Jorah and Ghost was too much. Sending them in first 😢😢and then seeing Ser Jorah retreat but Ghost didn’t 😭😭
Me and the boys defending our base from zombies by leaving the base entirely and running straight at them with guns that would be better at a distance
How stupid to kill 15,000 of your best man in seconds
Imagine if Summer showed up in this fight as a wight and we got to see a fight between him and Ghost. It would’ve been cool if they decided to make that the way he lost his ear.
D&D said originally there was a plan for Nymeria to show up with a huge pack of dozens of direwolves/wolves to help in the battle for the dawn but later removed it because, and I quote, "we didn't think anyone would want to see that". Like, what??? Everyone would have wanted to see that.
@@whoknows4379 D&D ARE JUST PLAIN DUMB.
This is the most epic silliest shxt I've ever seen in a movie
2:18 imagine this scene irl
The greatest let-down I've ever witnessed in my years.
When you charge into elite pikemen with light cavalry in Total War...