All twitch need to do is 18+ category. Dont change the rules, just add the category, supress these streams to those not registered 18+ and double down hard on taking action against creators that dont adhere to the rules. There are creators basically protest streaming the reversal of these changes - actively breaking ToS. If Twitch are going to stick to their guns with the reversal, they need to take action or the goal posts are going to keep getting moved.
But then they can't easily collect that sweet under 18 and lonely boy money. Like Linus said, and amount of friction will send users away. There's no way Booba on the front page is not the most profitable option.
They absolutely whiffed this on purpose. There is no way that they thought for a second the community would correctly police themselves. They knew this would happen and just wanted to be able to say they tried.
I honestly believe it was 100% advertisers freaking out when they saw the effects of the change. When in history has twitch reacted to anything so quickly, if at all.
Ultimately advertisers are the ones who decide what content is on the platform (as they pay the bills) so yeah. Which also means some advertisers were pro this stuff in the first place, but were not the primary advertisers :P
@@asmosisyup2557 Personally, I would say that a lot of the revenue on Twitch isn't from ad revenue anymore, considering the amount of Subscribers. But I might be wrong.
I once left UA-cam on autoplay overnight in my office and when I got back the video that was playing was a woman peeing in public on the sidewalk. Things get weird on UA-cam
I actually came across a full-on 4 hours long sex-ed documentary called "21st Century Sex Documentary" on UA-cam 8-10(this might be wrong) years ago. They even had internal footage. Even if it was very educational, 12~ y/o me shouldn't have been able to see that kind of thing.
21:55 "Your gonna get us in trouble" while not even being logged into twitch. It's almost like twitch's bad policies have knock on effects in other areas of the internet where people cannot rely on that platform to give reliable safe content, and for businesses it represent an actual existential danger. Enjoyed this video's hypothetical arguments in favor of risque content that then gets several very REAL examples of the problems it causes.
If you dont like it, dont watch it. The only problem is that it is literally on the home page even if you aren't logged in. It should 100% be on an entire different section of twitch. similarily to how youtube kids and youtube exists. youtube has videos that are 100% not for kids, yet they have an area which is for under 18s. children will obviously circumvent this, but thats on the parents.
I dont understand why they haven't added an 18+ section yet for anything that evern remotely brushes against the sexual content guidelines I get that it will be addressing the issue rather than pretending that it doesnt exist, which might annoy advertisers, but surely they're annoyed anyway. Get it out of the main part of twitch and supress it from those not logged in or registered as under 18. They half did it when they made the Pools, Hot Tubs and Beaches category & right now theres only 4.6k viewers. Its only just more popular than politics... It's completely died down since Twitch took a firm grasp on it. Create the 18+ categories for those showing a lot of skin, wearing body conforming clothing, highlighting areas of their body, etc and throw them all in there and double down hard on those who break the ToS and/or stream outside of the 18+ categories when they're doing those things. If something else comes up; into the 18+ category it goes. And I get this is a lot of moderation for twich, but people are literally putting 🔞 in their stream titles, surely there is a way to get at least the majority into a cordoned off area of the site. Having those 18+ categories also makes it super easy to monitor those streams and see if they are explicitly break ToS.
It is not on the home page. Anything marked as inappropriate content is precluded from the twitch algorithm and must be specifically located by username.
My biggest issue is that I cant browse with out being exposed to those "visuals over gameplay" streams and I wish there was a way to remove those from the recommended channels. I only have followed channels that I would not have a problem with my wife or kids glancing at my screen. I have not been to the twitch homepage on purpose in over 2 years.
@@Anonymous-sb9rr it sorta was a thing back in the day though when you could make responses with videos, they were called "reply girls" back in the day and its basically sorta the same thing that has been happening to twitch these last 5 years or so (it was just softcore, like at twitch it was just an "excuse" to show skin and get views on a platform that is not for that) but them actually saying "yeah nudity is ok if its artistic" is wild and incredibly out of touch, there is no way they expected something that wasnt straight up korn
To me the issue has been Twitch on one hand wants to match the more mature options of other services while on the other hand wants to act like its pg-13 and thus kids being on the site is a okay. When no way in hell would I allow anyone under 16 at least on to the site, there is nothing preventing a young person from going into a mature rated stream. No age verification, no blocking mature content for an account who is set to being underage for mature content.
I think something nobody is talking about is the fact that Twitch is a global website and there are many jurisidictions around the world where explicitly allowing nudity could be considered as hosting pornographic content which can get their website blocked from such countries, unlike say twitter or youtube who just turn a blind eye to it (well twitter only has a policy against showing it in easily visible places unless you mark your account as sensitive). Yeah it won't be problem in most of North America or Europe or even South America but probably not in like almost all of Asia and Africa. I think twitch execs just think that these markets weren't as valuable as their core markets (well they were willing to even pull out of SK which was by traffic one of their top 5 countries) so having potential future headaches in them would be counteracted by the increased revenue.
Every time this happens it's because some e-girl trying to advertise her OnlyFans pushes the boundaries too far, and instead of just enforcing the rules and punishing them, Twitch has to have a seminar about sex positivity, as if enforcing the rules where women are involved is sexism. All that needs to happen is a temp ban, that's literally it. These people skirt the rules as closely as they possibly can and they're not acting in good faith.
From what I've heard, Twitch is very inconsistent with how they enforce their content restriction rules; it's not that uncommon for innocents to be punished severely and people deliberately breaking the rules to get of lightly.
It's not inconsistent, if you know what rules twitch is following. People who bring in/make lots of money get a free pass. People who do not get made examples of. That's not really a twitch policy but more of a life lesson.
Twitch absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt, this this because content moderation doesn't scale, and shifting it to creators to self tag and move it out of the recommendation algorithms, and advertisers slots so they don't have to deal with as many report tickets, or lost revenue
It’s a continuation of the problem that every company hates the fact that people might spend money somewhere else so they they feel this incessant need to chase after everything that is not their current business. Why does every site need “adult content?” Why can’t some companies focus on that area and other companies focus on other areas?
i think oalot of peoples anger with this situation more stems from the fact that it was initially intended for gaming and now theres just boring ass content of people talking and showing their bodies taking over it
You talked about why Twitch gets so much attention for explicit content, and I think you missed an important reason why. It's gonna sound weird to hear, but in a way, Twitch DOESN'T have THAT much content on it at any one time. HEAR ME OUT. Naturally, there are always going to be millions of obscure, "no-one-watches-this" creators on any platform and a few ultra-popular ones driving a huge portion of traffic. In the numbers game, few creators make most of the traffic. That's important because the difference between Twitch and most other sites is that there isn't a BACKLOG of content to watch, or people don't really go on the site to watch it. For a lot of streamers, they stream on twitch and the content they want to have stick around they edit a bit and put on youtube. But I'd argue that's different content. People don't go on Twitch to see a video that's played live, they go on Twitch to watch AND react to content live (in a community setting) So while on UA-cam, I can spend the next 2 years straight watching every "my kind of LTT video" there is, I CAN'T watch-and-react with every stream Ninja's ever made. So, if I want Ninja watch-and-react content, I can see if he's on (which he might not even be) and even if he is, he could be playing some game I don't like. So, as I said, there's not THAT MUCH content at any one time. And as soon as there's explicit content on Twitch, people will find it a lot faster and more naturally than on all the other platforms. It's not DROWNED in a mega-ocean of content like other sites. So people will care more. That and your "everything's got a nude mod" argument is probably a good part of it too.
It's just so tiring, they should just allow everything already or ban everything, they allowing more mature stuff doesn't solve anything it just moves the goal post, Just chatting streamers are always pushing the boundaries of what's allowed there, allowing just a little more is only going to make them push the content to the new limit, just like it has been happening since before they added the hot tub category.
11:47 I completely disagree. I have seen time and time again that there are entire audiences built around staring at the streamer (girl) inappropriately during game streams because they’re interested in sexualizing that particular individual.
I'm okay with all of this garbage, IF Twitch would add a very verbose thot filter button... I don't want pornstar storefronts when I browse Twitch streams.
I think a problem with the 'Opt In' is people usually just toggle it on the first time they encounter something hidden by it, forget about it, and then complain the option is not there.
Yeah but atleast then twitch can just say, “well you should’ve paid attention” and they would be legally right in doing so, I mean South Park did a whole episode about this with the humancentipad episode cause Kyle didn’t read the terms of service and just agreed.
I am personal friends with a number of people making content on Twitch and the mainstream opinion from that side seems to be that people ignoring TOS ruined it for everyone else. Rampant abuse of the "artistic nudity" clause had some people being banned for streaming half-naked or using explicit avatars and then complaining about it to peers and getting wrecked on discord for being dummies. I feel rescinding this is what is most coherent with Twitch's standing policies regarding nudity, which I don't have any problems with. In-game nudity is disclosed in the ratings and is documented enough that a reasonable person could be assumed to understand what it is they will see. I never agreed with the people who complain about modded nudity as if there's a contradiction there when in fact there's a world of difference. A mod could contain anything, no one can be expected to understand the scope of explicit content in a mod or other unofficial/hobbyist depiction and as such, Twitch will ban these because it's not worth the risk of something really bad slipping through the cracks somewhere. It would have been nice to give artists the freedom to draw more explicit content live but as always, the race to the bottom ruined it for everyone and this is why we can't have nice things.
twitch is very out of touch but i outright REFUSE to believe they didnt know they were gonna flood the site with straight up korn, there is no way they thought "artistic nudity" would bring something akin to david of michelangelo instead of just hentai and more softcore camgirls
It's kind of ironic that the people who typically complain about a nanny state curtailing their freedom are the ones who want Twitch to regulate everything and keep them safe, while the ones who typically want the government to regulate and take care of everything else are the ones that support Twitch streamers and viewers having maximum freedom.
Allowing nudity on the platform does actually remove viewers from gamers because there are legitimately a lot of people who wont visit if the site is known to have that kind of content.
@@CrAzYpotpiesome people are asexual and/or sex repulsed They might not have a problem with people doing it but it still makes them uncomfortable seeing it
@@joost00719 You are missing clarification, I said any platform. I am sorry you feel that you are a loser for being on UA-cam (well, not actually sorry.)
@@Marshallreall So what? Time to grow up, the world is full of things you will see that you might not have wanted to. I don't want to see a lot of things that are everywhere, like advertising. If you are repulsed and flip the channel to two people kissing and get all uncomfortable, that is a you problem, no need to stifle the rest of humanity.
For anyone curious about which music video Linus was referencing, my best guess is “Blurred Lines - Uncensored Version” by Robin Thicke. I think the official upload has since been removed from youtube (though the censored version remains up) but reuploads definitely still exist on the platform.
I think the biggest issue is that it's typically just shameless E-begging. As someone who casually checks out Twitch every month or so, I'll check out the most popular streams, end up rolling my eyes, and switching back to UA-cam.
I remember the late '00s-mid 2010s when advertisers were all lenient about sexual content. Advertisers were phased by sex so little that it made up a good bit of Vice's articles, following it's Wall Street takeover. When did advertisers get puritanical?
i think the only times ive seen anything go above just chatting was when the warframe devs Digital Extremes do their yearly tennocon and half a million people flood into that directory
6:09 "Natural broadening scope" or another term for it: scope creep. Broadening is a nice way to put a very real problem that baseline shifting a business model till it's unrecognizable. And nothing is natural when it's financially motivated.
I'm surprised Twitch doesn't just open a subsidiary or something as a separate streaming service so they can have their cake and eat it too. They already have the infrastructure to just roll out something like that which upstarts generally don't have.
i don't even see Just Chatting" in the list of Twitch categories, though admittedly, i am not logged in, so perhaps it only shows for logged in users, kind of like UA-cam does with nudity.
Spranky on the RiffTrax channel will be happy for the reduction of work, he has to cover all those paintings and statues in the background of movies before the policy change. Twitch in the past has been overzealous in enforcing the "adult" content to the point of banning a user, that continuously tells viewers if they are under 18 to leave her stream and have an 18+ content warning on her channel and in her streaming description, because she ate some chips while on camera and they claimed she was doing ASMR (which is odd since there are channels on Twitch that purposely have ASMR and are not banned). Keep in mind, the banned user, who is now un-banned, only has the age restriction because she drops the f-bomb and frankly talks about sex in relationships. Yes, she is on the lower end of viewership and is not interested in gaming the system for eyes.
17:34 wait... did Luke just suggest what I think he did? That PNC would lead to them ditching the pretty and looking for some shooty bang bang instead?
You cant find any of this without trying on UA-cam. Twitch literally promotes these things on the front page, and just chatting is such a generic category that people doing this share the space with normal irl streamers.
I think one thing that was missed was a big part of Twitch is the Prime stuff which is all gaming related, from free games, to Luna, to in game content. Twitch drops are also geared toward gaming. While just chatting is a thing and legit art is a thing, nothing wrong there, I think the line pushers and the edge pushers who just do what they do to push the boundaries is part of the problem. And while yes, a lot of that stuff is on other platforms you have to go find it 99% of the time. And the content for 18+ on YT is age gated and you have to be logged in to see it.
17:26 In other words: Post-nut clarity would've meant more traffic to gaming channels after people spend about 30 seconds watching a "Just Chatting" topless stream. (Listen, if you're the type of person who could get off on Twitch, you're clearly not a person with sexual stamina lol)
The problem with the you wouldn't have got that viewer anyway counter argument is that it assumes that person came to twitch looking for that type of content. Chances are if your looking for that type of content you wouldn't be looking on twitch.
on twitch - Mainly People Do - Just Chatting (Talk Show/Other Stuff) - "Watch along" (React Content) - Play Popular Game... (until it Dies out then Back to React Content)... and Most people that i at least watch on Twitch are on the Lewder Side of the Spectrum... on the Night its Mainly Art Streams... Since Everyone Else just Sleeps xD....
It sounds like Linus and Luke were unaware of the fact that UA-cam has had an 18+ filter for years and years now, and that it has allowed some pretty racy stuff for almost as long.
I guess one thing people arent saying at the moment is... while youtube, twitter, etc have content with nudity in it, it doesn't come onto the front page UNLESS you specifically search for it regularly enough for the algorithm to decide that's all you want to see. Especially if you are not logged in or you are logged in with an underage account. Although you may accidentally see it occasionally regardless that is OCCASIONALLY whereas during this whole saga NSFW content was showing up on the front page! and that's mainly because it was made "the hot topic of the internet" so obviously everyone was searching for it, pushing that type of content to the top. twitch probably would've had a lot less issues with keeping the same policy up (the one that allowed all the nudity etc) but SUPPRESS that type of content from the homepage for like a month or three to let the internet calm down... then hopefully it becomes a type of content that... yeah it's there but you only see it if you search for it because the algorithm doesn't get this huge spike of people searching for NSFW content.
So they reverted the change based on the concern of drawings but still allow anything related to sexual content and technically "they don't" but due to twitch's incompetence the site doesn't even feel like a game streaming site anymore, i keep thinking i click on the wrong link in my bookmarks ;)
as for "just avoiding it", I'm not sure if that's even feasible. on youtube, I've almost never been recommended lewd or adult content, even though I will find it if I really go out of my way to do so. I don't use twitch much but whenever I do go there, the adult content is always put directly in front of my face. I'd have to completely avoid entire categories (like just chatting) but even then it still can leak onto my front page. this is all just my personal experience, but I think that's why no one sees it as a problem on youtube, but they do for twitch, because twitch is much worse at separating the safe/unsafe content
My attitude towards this is the same as towards certain categories of fanfiction: I'm pro tag-your-shit. As long as the choice is in the viewer's hands as to whether or not they view the content, that's the main thing. And the punishment comes if somebody _doesn't_ tag their shit and thus violates the viewer's consent. Maybe Twitch can learn a thing or two from AO3's tagging system 😛
I’m also going to add that if your stream is tagged 18+ that it should probably be pixelated slightly. I don’t have a problem with a lot of what the women are doing but I wish that twitch could through on a little bit of pixelation.
@@aidantawney4776 100%! And make whatever 18+ option very easy to swap on or off. Since, y'know, Twitch is often second-screen content while people are working and might not want to accidentally have NSFW images on their second screen in such an environment. Or if they're logged into their Twitch account when they open it with their kiddos to watch a Minecraft stream or something!
I think the bigger problem is that we just as a society haven't had the conversation that parents need to be more involved in what their kids do online, so we freak out about what kids might see since they seem to just be given free-range online access from age 5 and up in an unfortunately large number of instances. I'm not a pearl-clutcher at all, I know what I was doing online at 13-14 even when it was still dialup, but even then, I just kinda feel like parents have a hard time with twitch at the best of times. It's a website HEAVILY marketed towards minors, and has a colossal user base of kids. I don't use or know how twitch works, really, but a family mode that simply locks/hides the categories like "just chatting" or other channels that do more risque content and only allows the game streaming ones (which most kids seem to be there for) and just having a ZERO tolerance policy for even PG-13 levels of skin on streamers while they're hosting content in those channels might at least alleviate a lot of this. UA-cam has parental controls, why the fuck doesn't twitch? Twitch streamers could indicate that their channel is kid friendly or not and be banned for violating that filter, just like youtube does. I think the biggest issue seems to be that parents aren't involved enough with their kids online in the first place, which there's kind of no excuse for anymore, since most parents these days did grow up alongside the early internet, and it's made worse by the blatant lack of twitch doing anything to put parental controls on a service that they also want to market heavily towards both kids and adults.
The primary issue here is that twitch was not at all prepared to take this level of a change on this suddenly. Itd be one thing if they changed the policy about this but u dont just inact HUGE policy changes like this in a matter of a couple of days. They needed to be sure that these streams wouldnt be the face of twitch, there was a seperate section in place where the whole thumbnail was blurred unless u choose to turn safe search off, prevent people not logged into an account from viewing that content. The issue here isnt whether twitch allowed it its that they gave it such a nonchalent approach that made it feel like they took no time to think about anything but the money. There was a way of doing this that caused a buzz but didnt cause a full on stir. But what i find most interesting is how many streamers who were against gambling on twitch were just fine with softcore AV. The hypocrisy in that is insane.
I think the main reasoning behind the changes was to silence backlash regarding favorability towards or against female streamers. There's an endless number of controversies of female streamers accusing Twitch of over-enforcing nudity rules for clothing twitch deems as too revealing or sexual, or other general cases of skirting the line. At the same time, I constantly hear male streamers claiming twitch is significantly more lenient towards female streamers especially regarding nudity. It's a never ending debate, and a debate where both sides see twitch in the wrong. Twitch is not being unfairly singled out here, UA-cam explicitly does not allow any nudity and content towing that line isn't as common, definitely not on the homepage. Even in this clip, the Twitch homepage without fail is too close to being nsfw to show on stream in its entirety. Twitch being a predominantly live video streaming service isn't making matters any better either. It's a lot easier to review videos before they're uploaded than moderating thousands of concurrent live feeds in real time. Don't get me wrong, some content that breaks Tos is going to fall through the cracks no matter what. With that said, unlike on Twitch, you probably won't find explicit content on UA-cam even if you're looking for it. UA-cam has the luxury of screening videos before they're posted, rather than taking down a stream or its Vod after the fact. But more than anything else, I think the root cause of Twitch's moderation being so controversial is that most content creators on twitch are individual personalities. In contrast, I'd guess the average UA-cam uploader is an anon reposting a video they saw somewhere else on the internet. This disconnect between the content of the video and the uploader makes UA-cam's moderation based on the content of the video rather than the uploader. In most popular Twitch streams, the streamer literally is the content, so Twitch disapproving of the content of a stream can easily be twisted into them personally disapproving the streamer. The result is an onslaught of community outcry of fans reacting to their favorite streamer getting banned. In the eyes of bitter streamers, Twitch banning them is a personal attack against their conduct and or themselves as a person. It's not difficult to see how this relationship can lead to inconsistent rule enforcement and timidness to take action against violations as to avoid aggravating a streamer's community. This recent controversy is just another permutation of Twitch struggling to find their footing with content moderation while juggling community backlash.
My thought process is if they created an “incognito mode” where you had to open a separate version of twitch to view it that could work. Also there is an argument to be made that if there were people on twitch streaming gaming etc, but in their birthday suit, it may help de sexualise nude bodies. As there is a very binary separation between nude bodies and normal non sexual activity.
i think twitch should allow nudity , then have a setting to block nude streamers to protect children , make it password protected with a password parents can set , and require streamers to use a keyword saying there is nudity in the stream , if they fail to do so instant permanent ban. im a devout Christian, however practical solutions need to be implemented , twitch is a moderation nightmare, i think the measures i suggested above, would go a long way to balance freedom of expression with protecting children and allowing adults to block content they dont want to see .
Isn't this a filtration issue? Even if most platforms have spicy content, they don't usually hit you in the face when you're first hitting the landing page or take up 80% of screen real estate. That sounds like the filtration or content reached stupid levels Twitch couldn't handle & people misidentified. Then again I don't know this stuff nearly that well.
Someone can be looking for a gaming stream to watch, but when that b**by thumbnail shows up, they click on that instead. And then because they've clicked on it, it'll get recommended more, so it seems like that's what people are looking for, while it's not. It's better not to have the s**ual content mixed with regular content. It's okay to have it on the platform, if it's in a separate section.
As a Twitch user I think this is a non issue. Why is no one talking about the real issue Twitch can easily fix. Copyrighted music. Easy fix would be to just allow streamers to play Amazon music during a stream
I'm pretty sure that would violate thousands of rights agreements between Amazon music and different music labels and artists. I think that would work fine for music added to Amazon music that has opted in to letting live streamers use their music royalty free and without permission. By licensing music to be streamed on Amazon music, Amazon isn't being given free rein of distribution of any music on the service unless specifically arranging that with the rights holder.
@@gulapula Amazon could easily fix any issues and concerns with this. All Amazon would have to do is go to the record labels or whoever they are licensing the music from. Tell them we want to make Amazon music available for Twitch streamers to use while streaming. An example of what Twitch/Amazon could do is Amazon music accounts for streamers. Royalties for the use of the music played on Twitch would come from this. In my experience I would have to say this would make Twitch way more money than loosening the rules to allow controversial content ever will
@noway5052 Hi everyone, welcome to my new music streaming radio show channel where you can listen to all your favorite hits for free. Be sure to leave some donations if you want to request anything specific. I just broke your concept in seconds. Your idea is bad. You are wrong. It would be impossible for amazon to negotiate a deal like that anyways. the music companies would NEVER agree.
@@Whatsup_Abroad If record labels are making money off the songs played like I had suggested they wouldn't care about what you are saying. Also currently other than discouraging people from playing copyright music. Twitch doesn't do anything to stop it. Other than they mute VODS where copyright music is played. With what I am suggesting everyone wins. Unlike how things are currently being done. Plus what I suggested makes more money for the record labels or artists. Then what a massive number of people do every day on UA-cam. Listen to those same songs on a free UA-cam account with ads blocked
To be fair luke, some amt of people who are watching half naked tiddy streamers would actually still be on twitch watching actual gaming content if not for them, even if the majority of them would have just been on some random camsite instead
Unironically, the current internet should be hardline 18+ or if a minor uses it, it's only under a supervision of an adult. And there should be another internet, in parallel, can use the same infrastructure but completely separate DNSes, severs, etc. that is only for children, parents, moderators (it should be heavily moderated), education system workers and maybe the governmental offices abd such. Accounts allowing to log on to connect at all created by schools for actual children, parents, etc., all traffic logged and tracked by name of the user. And so on. I see no other way of minimising children's exposure to over sexualisation of everything. Of course the problem would be to get all the countries of the world on board to participate in that.
But advertising dollars are not driven JUST by eyeballs - they're driven by the content categories that relevant, highest paying ads can appear next to. Few reputable businesses want to be seen next to boobs and butts, because it's not the context that is driving relevant clicks and potential purchases for them. You should know as much running your channel on UA-cam which, as tech, attracts more valuable advertisers from the tech space than gardening shows.
It should be banned entirely. It doesnt matter how easily found the content is elsewhere. Twitch is a platform used primarily by teens. It is advertising sexual content to minors.
I think the changes should've stayed, but they probably shouldn't have made it their homepage lol. Why would you put 18+ boob streams on the front-page unless you're literally Pornhub?
Edit: Also. I think there is a general understanding with the initial post I made that seems to be underlying but not addressed. There is a concept in Law that refers to "Intent". For this context, the intent to sell a product to someone under good faith. My initial post recognizes that there is a line between acceptable content. But, does not directly address what that line means. In essence, the issue I have with the changes to Twitch are the fact that the "Actors" do not sell their product in good faith. Yes, an individual my also attach themselves to anyone else. And it should be on them if they spend their life savings to a twitch streamer. But, that intent of the streamer is what matters. Someone who is just trying in earnest to be a health and wholesome streamer is not intentionally trying to form a prosocial relationship. It's not their fault when someone donates all of their money to them, it just happens sometimes. BUT. When a Titty Streamer gets on camera to specifically take advantage of said people who have these problems. That's when the intention is malicious. Sure, the outcome is the same. "If you don't like it, don't watch." But the fundamental problem is that Grey area where these Titty Streamers hide. They fully know what they are doing. And when they are called out on it they hide behind a "Plausible Deniability." It needs to be on Twitch the platform to clearly and explicitly define rules. And when Streams find a loophole to do bad, Twitch needs to patch that loophole. Original post: Allowing sexual content on twitch is a problem because it preys specifically on the psychology of those individuals who cannot distinguish between real life and content. There are real actual mental disorders that cause people to be unable to separate themselves from content creators. Twitch was not allowing explicit content before. Meaning that those who are aware of their disorders would be able to recognize that Twitch was a safe space for them. To suddenly change the terms to allow explicit content. Without also notifying these individuals who expect Twitch to be a safe place is Discriminatory and best and malpractice at worst. OnlyFans was/is new. It was trying to COMPETE against things like Twitch and or Patreon. There was a deliberate expectation if an individual was to go OnlyFans that the rules would not be the same. Twitch suddenly changing the content is actually harmful.
Now replace all that with "violence on TV," "videogames," or any of the other things puritans have inserted into the naughty slot and have a good, long, hard look at yourself. Away from the hand lotion.
Also. I think there is a general understanding with the initial post I made that seems to be underlying but not addressed. There is a concept in Law that refers to "Intent". For this context, the intent to sell a product to someone under good faith. My initial post recognizes that there is a line between acceptable content. But, does not directly address what that line means. In essence, the issue I have with the changes to Twitch are the fact that the "Actors" do not sell their product in good faith. Yes, an individual my also attach themselves to anyone else. And it should be on them if they spend their life savings to a twitch streamer. But, that intent of the streamer is what matters. Someone who is just trying in earnest to be a health and wholesome streamer is not intentionally trying to form a prosocial relationship. It's not their fault when someone donates all of their money to them, it just happens sometimes. BUT. When a Titty Streamer gets on camera to specifically take advantage of said people who have these problems. That's when the intention is malicious. Sure, the outcome is the same. "If you don't like it, don't watch." But the fundamental problem is that Grey area where these Titty Streamers hide. They fully know what they are doing. And when they are called out on it they hide behind a "Plausible Deniability." It needs to be on Twitch the platform to clearly and explicitly define rules. And when Streams find a loophole to do bad, Twitch needs to patch that loophole.
They should allow 18+ content, but enforce verification in some way (like subbing) to see it, and they should also blur that stuff by default unless you change your configs
Bringing the chatters that come to twitch for that type of content, makes the site even more unfriendly to one of half the population, both as viewers and streamers. It was already an issue that on twitch, 99% of the community that you see in chats are dudes, even in streams which should appeal to both(!) genders somewhat equally.
Ehh, I don't follow twitch for the same reason I don't bother with Instagram or TikTok. Too many pick me half naked women on these accounts praying on simps and their money. UA-cam is just barely getting by imho because for the most part I can open the app or web page and not be bombarded with tons of Tikthots or thirst traps when all I want to watch is the new post from Weston Chaplain or something like that. God forbid if I'm scrolling through content I actually follow and watch but accidentally hit one thirst trap video...that's all I'll see for a damn month until the Algorithmic Gods finally determine that I don't give a single F about some "gAmIr GuRl" and her bathwater scented car candles.
I'm grown up, I'd say very grown up 😂 and I strictly watch gaming streams on twitch, yet Twitch is trying to make me click on that nasty content even if I NEVER CLICKED on it, it tries to shove it down my throat, so my issue with that is that there are kids on that platform, IT SHOULD NOT BE THERE! I don't mind such a content but it should be on a different platform. Twitch is big enough to be able to separate their content.
All twitch need to do is 18+ category. Dont change the rules, just add the category, supress these streams to those not registered 18+ and double down hard on taking action against creators that dont adhere to the rules.
There are creators basically protest streaming the reversal of these changes - actively breaking ToS. If Twitch are going to stick to their guns with the reversal, they need to take action or the goal posts are going to keep getting moved.
But then they can't easily collect that sweet under 18 and lonely boy money. Like Linus said, and amount of friction will send users away. There's no way Booba on the front page is not the most profitable option.
I agree. Any streamer that does anything actually 18+ just stream in that category, even if you're gaming. It'll be less attractive to do so
They absolutely whiffed this on purpose. There is no way that they thought for a second the community would correctly police themselves. They knew this would happen and just wanted to be able to say they tried.
Twitch should just buy chaturbate and put the 18+ over there.
@@infragrayscale Because no one has ever lied about their age on the internet, right?
I honestly believe it was 100% advertisers freaking out when they saw the effects of the change. When in history has twitch reacted to anything so quickly, if at all.
Ultimately advertisers are the ones who decide what content is on the platform (as they pay the bills) so yeah. Which also means some advertisers were pro this stuff in the first place, but were not the primary advertisers :P
@@asmosisyup2557 Personally, I would say that a lot of the revenue on Twitch isn't from ad revenue anymore, considering the amount of Subscribers. But I might be wrong.
I once left UA-cam on autoplay overnight in my office and when I got back the video that was playing was a woman peeing in public on the sidewalk. Things get weird on UA-cam
Yeah but it’s hard to find that stuff without randomly coming upon it
I actually came across a full-on 4 hours long sex-ed documentary called "21st Century Sex Documentary" on UA-cam 8-10(this might be wrong) years ago. They even had internal footage. Even if it was very educational, 12~ y/o me shouldn't have been able to see that kind of thing.
21:55 "Your gonna get us in trouble" while not even being logged into twitch.
It's almost like twitch's bad policies have knock on effects in other areas of the internet where people cannot rely on that platform to give reliable safe content, and for businesses it represent an actual existential danger.
Enjoyed this video's hypothetical arguments in favor of risque content that then gets several very REAL examples of the problems it causes.
If you dont like it, dont watch it. The only problem is that it is literally on the home page even if you aren't logged in. It should 100% be on an entire different section of twitch. similarily to how youtube kids and youtube exists. youtube has videos that are 100% not for kids, yet they have an area which is for under 18s. children will obviously circumvent this, but thats on the parents.
I dont understand why they haven't added an 18+ section yet for anything that evern remotely brushes against the sexual content guidelines
I get that it will be addressing the issue rather than pretending that it doesnt exist, which might annoy advertisers, but surely they're annoyed anyway.
Get it out of the main part of twitch and supress it from those not logged in or registered as under 18.
They half did it when they made the Pools, Hot Tubs and Beaches category & right now theres only 4.6k viewers. Its only just more popular than politics...
It's completely died down since Twitch took a firm grasp on it.
Create the 18+ categories for those showing a lot of skin, wearing body conforming clothing, highlighting areas of their body, etc and throw them all in there and double down hard on those who break the ToS and/or stream outside of the 18+ categories when they're doing those things. If something else comes up; into the 18+ category it goes.
And I get this is a lot of moderation for twich, but people are literally putting 🔞 in their stream titles, surely there is a way to get at least the majority into a cordoned off area of the site.
Having those 18+ categories also makes it super easy to monitor those streams and see if they are explicitly break ToS.
It is not on the home page. Anything marked as inappropriate content is precluded from the twitch algorithm and must be specifically located by username.
This was exactly what I was coming to the comments to say.
If I load twitch to see some games and am bombarded with tits it's a really weird vibe.
yeah that first sentence is not an argument.
there is CHILDREN on the website. i doubt exposing them to tittystreamer445 is a good idea
Twitch can just shut down, problem solved
My headcannon is that someone at twitch has a weird kink for this and and convinced the right people that it was a good idea for the platform.
My biggest issue is that I cant browse with out being exposed to those "visuals over gameplay" streams and I wish there was a way to remove those from the recommended channels. I only have followed channels that I would not have a problem with my wife or kids glancing at my screen. I have not been to the twitch homepage on purpose in over 2 years.
I never have this on UA-cam though .
@@Anonymous-sb9rr I RARELY have this on YT. But a few right clicks and/or different searches fixes that post haste.
@@Anonymous-sb9rr it sorta was a thing back in the day though when you could make responses with videos, they were called "reply girls" back in the day and its basically sorta the same thing that has been happening to twitch these last 5 years or so (it was just softcore, like at twitch it was just an "excuse" to show skin and get views on a platform that is not for that) but them actually saying "yeah nudity is ok if its artistic" is wild and incredibly out of touch, there is no way they expected something that wasnt straight up korn
To me the issue has been Twitch on one hand wants to match the more mature options of other services while on the other hand wants to act like its pg-13 and thus kids being on the site is a okay.
When no way in hell would I allow anyone under 16 at least on to the site, there is nothing preventing a young person from going into a mature rated stream. No age verification, no blocking mature content for an account who is set to being underage for mature content.
I think something nobody is talking about is the fact that Twitch is a global website and there are many jurisidictions around the world where explicitly allowing nudity could be considered as hosting pornographic content which can get their website blocked from such countries, unlike say twitter or youtube who just turn a blind eye to it (well twitter only has a policy against showing it in easily visible places unless you mark your account as sensitive). Yeah it won't be problem in most of North America or Europe or even South America but probably not in like almost all of Asia and Africa. I think twitch execs just think that these markets weren't as valuable as their core markets (well they were willing to even pull out of SK which was by traffic one of their top 5 countries) so having potential future headaches in them would be counteracted by the increased revenue.
profitability, not revenue. otherwise you are completely correct
Every time this happens it's because some e-girl trying to advertise her OnlyFans pushes the boundaries too far, and instead of just enforcing the rules and punishing them, Twitch has to have a seminar about sex positivity, as if enforcing the rules where women are involved is sexism. All that needs to happen is a temp ban, that's literally it. These people skirt the rules as closely as they possibly can and they're not acting in good faith.
A temp ban is a web-wide free advertising campaign for them.
From what I've heard, Twitch is very inconsistent with how they enforce their content restriction rules; it's not that uncommon for innocents to be punished severely and people deliberately breaking the rules to get of lightly.
It's not inconsistent, if you know what rules twitch is following. People who bring in/make lots of money get a free pass. People who do not get made examples of. That's not really a twitch policy but more of a life lesson.
Exactly, Boogies ban was proof of this. As much as I hate the guy, there was no need to ban him for showing his fleshy sporran.
Twitch absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt, this this because content moderation doesn't scale, and shifting it to creators to self tag and move it out of the recommendation algorithms, and advertisers slots so they don't have to deal with as many report tickets, or lost revenue
Taking "Twitch" to a whole new meaning 😏
Call the new category: _Spasms_ After Dark
It’s a continuation of the problem that every company hates the fact that people might spend money somewhere else so they they feel this incessant need to chase after everything that is not their current business. Why does every site need “adult content?” Why can’t some companies focus on that area and other companies focus on other areas?
Cuz money 🫰🤑💰
i think oalot of peoples anger with this situation more stems from the fact that it was initially intended for gaming and now theres just boring ass content of people talking and showing their bodies taking over it
If it was boring, people wouldnt be watching it. So many people these days have the mindset "my view is the world view" it's astounding.
You talked about why Twitch gets so much attention for explicit content, and I think you missed an important reason why. It's gonna sound weird to hear, but in a way, Twitch DOESN'T have THAT much content on it at any one time. HEAR ME OUT.
Naturally, there are always going to be millions of obscure, "no-one-watches-this" creators on any platform and a few ultra-popular ones driving a huge portion of traffic. In the numbers game, few creators make most of the traffic.
That's important because the difference between Twitch and most other sites is that there isn't a BACKLOG of content to watch, or people don't really go on the site to watch it. For a lot of streamers, they stream on twitch and the content they want to have stick around they edit a bit and put on youtube. But I'd argue that's different content. People don't go on Twitch to see a video that's played live, they go on Twitch to watch AND react to content live (in a community setting)
So while on UA-cam, I can spend the next 2 years straight watching every "my kind of LTT video" there is, I CAN'T watch-and-react with every stream Ninja's ever made. So, if I want Ninja watch-and-react content, I can see if he's on (which he might not even be) and even if he is, he could be playing some game I don't like. So, as I said, there's not THAT MUCH content at any one time.
And as soon as there's explicit content on Twitch, people will find it a lot faster and more naturally than on all the other platforms. It's not DROWNED in a mega-ocean of content like other sites. So people will care more.
That and your "everything's got a nude mod" argument is probably a good part of it too.
It's just so tiring, they should just allow everything already or ban everything, they allowing more mature stuff doesn't solve anything it just moves the goal post, Just chatting streamers are always pushing the boundaries of what's allowed there, allowing just a little more is only going to make them push the content to the new limit, just like it has been happening since before they added the hot tub category.
good profile pic
@@mybloodyvacuum good Loveless pfp
@@gulapulathank you, it's one of my favourite shoegaze albums
11:47 I completely disagree. I have seen time and time again that there are entire audiences built around staring at the streamer (girl) inappropriately during game streams because they’re interested in sexualizing that particular individual.
You're disagreeing with an argument he didn't make
I'm okay with all of this garbage, IF Twitch would add a very verbose thot filter button... I don't want pornstar storefronts when I browse Twitch streams.
Remember when they banned gambling because of "the kids"? Pettridge Farms remembers.
I think a problem with the 'Opt In' is people usually just toggle it on the first time they encounter something hidden by it, forget about it, and then complain the option is not there.
Then, it's badly designed, it should not even show that something is hidden.
Yeah but atleast then twitch can just say, “well you should’ve paid attention” and they would be legally right in doing so, I mean South Park did a whole episode about this with the humancentipad episode cause Kyle didn’t read the terms of service and just agreed.
I am personal friends with a number of people making content on Twitch and the mainstream opinion from that side seems to be that people ignoring TOS ruined it for everyone else. Rampant abuse of the "artistic nudity" clause had some people being banned for streaming half-naked or using explicit avatars and then complaining about it to peers and getting wrecked on discord for being dummies.
I feel rescinding this is what is most coherent with Twitch's standing policies regarding nudity, which I don't have any problems with. In-game nudity is disclosed in the ratings and is documented enough that a reasonable person could be assumed to understand what it is they will see. I never agreed with the people who complain about modded nudity as if there's a contradiction there when in fact there's a world of difference. A mod could contain anything, no one can be expected to understand the scope of explicit content in a mod or other unofficial/hobbyist depiction and as such, Twitch will ban these because it's not worth the risk of something really bad slipping through the cracks somewhere.
It would have been nice to give artists the freedom to draw more explicit content live but as always, the race to the bottom ruined it for everyone and this is why we can't have nice things.
Twitch is trying anything and everything to stay alive
And rolling down the stairs with drums and a piano and we're all waiting to see what it sounds like.
Are you expecting Twitch to just die quietly and shutter its doors while changing nothing?
in the game "penises, vaginas and ..." I think vaginas should beat penises using the same logic as paper beats rock
twitch is very out of touch but i outright REFUSE to believe they didnt know they were gonna flood the site with straight up korn, there is no way they thought "artistic nudity" would bring something akin to david of michelangelo instead of just hentai and more softcore camgirls
It's kind of ironic that the people who typically complain about a nanny state curtailing their freedom are the ones who want Twitch to regulate everything and keep them safe, while the ones who typically want the government to regulate and take care of everything else are the ones that support Twitch streamers and viewers having maximum freedom.
Allowing nudity on the platform does actually remove viewers from gamers because there are legitimately a lot of people who wont visit if the site is known to have that kind of content.
Sounds like a win-win to me. Less puritanical losers on any platform is a good thing.
@@CrAzYpotpiesome people are asexual and/or sex repulsed
They might not have a problem with people doing it but it still makes them uncomfortable seeing it
@@CrAzYpotpie It's only the losers that stay
@@joost00719 You are missing clarification, I said any platform. I am sorry you feel that you are a loser for being on UA-cam (well, not actually sorry.)
@@Marshallreall So what? Time to grow up, the world is full of things you will see that you might not have wanted to. I don't want to see a lot of things that are everywhere, like advertising.
If you are repulsed and flip the channel to two people kissing and get all uncomfortable, that is a you problem, no need to stifle the rest of humanity.
For anyone curious about which music video Linus was referencing, my best guess is “Blurred Lines - Uncensored Version” by Robin Thicke. I think the official upload has since been removed from youtube (though the censored version remains up) but reuploads definitely still exist on the platform.
The biggest annoyance I have with Twitch is when it's used to livestream of canned content, for example TV shows.
I think the biggest issue is that it's typically just shameless E-begging.
As someone who casually checks out Twitch every month or so, I'll check out the most popular streams, end up rolling my eyes, and switching back to UA-cam.
Or directing you off the site to their "spicy content"
Why are they pretending Twitch reversed this for any other reason than payment processors threatening to pull out of the platform?
Sounds to me like Linus came across Rammstein lmao
Twitch didn't want to lose their advertisers 😂
I remember the late '00s-mid 2010s when advertisers were all lenient about sexual content.
Advertisers were phased by sex so little that it made up a good bit of Vice's articles, following it's Wall Street takeover. When did advertisers get puritanical?
9:29 link?
i think the only times ive seen anything go above just chatting was when the warframe devs Digital Extremes do their yearly tennocon and half a million people flood into that directory
6:09 "Natural broadening scope" or another term for it: scope creep.
Broadening is a nice way to put a very real problem that baseline shifting a business model till it's unrecognizable.
And nothing is natural when it's financially motivated.
9:43 :)
Technically it's part of a combined word, and the music video is no longer on youtube.
there was a separate category on twitch, those which were on the home page were NOT marked correctly and action WAS taken by twitch
I'm surprised Twitch doesn't just open a subsidiary or something as a separate streaming service so they can have their cake and eat it too. They already have the infrastructure to just roll out something like that which upstarts generally don't have.
i don't even see Just Chatting" in the list of Twitch categories, though admittedly, i am not logged in, so perhaps it only shows for logged in users, kind of like UA-cam does with nudity.
Spranky on the RiffTrax channel will be happy for the reduction of work, he has to cover all those paintings and statues in the background of movies before the policy change.
Twitch in the past has been overzealous in enforcing the "adult" content to the point of banning a user, that continuously tells viewers if they are under 18 to leave her stream and have an 18+ content warning on her channel and in her streaming description, because she ate some chips while on camera and they claimed she was doing ASMR (which is odd since there are channels on Twitch that purposely have ASMR and are not banned). Keep in mind, the banned user, who is now un-banned, only has the age restriction because she drops the f-bomb and frankly talks about sex in relationships. Yes, she is on the lower end of viewership and is not interested in gaming the system for eyes.
Those damned gorilla grams... 😅
@2:41 eyeless sebastian
I HAVE A TWITCH ACCOUNT. THAT EVERY TIME I GO TO SIGN IN I HAVE TO CREATER A NEW PASSWORD EVERYTIME
17:34 wait... did Luke just suggest what I think he did? That PNC would lead to them ditching the pretty and looking for some shooty bang bang instead?
You cant find any of this without trying on UA-cam. Twitch literally promotes these things on the front page, and just chatting is such a generic category that people doing this share the space with normal irl streamers.
They for sure can blur, don't show on front page snd only allow that content for logged users like UA-cam but they just don't want to.
I think one thing that was missed was a big part of Twitch is the Prime stuff which is all gaming related, from free games, to Luna, to in game content. Twitch drops are also geared toward gaming.
While just chatting is a thing and legit art is a thing, nothing wrong there, I think the line pushers and the edge pushers who just do what they do to push the boundaries is part of the problem. And while yes, a lot of that stuff is on other platforms you have to go find it 99% of the time. And the content for 18+ on YT is age gated and you have to be logged in to see it.
17:26 In other words: Post-nut clarity would've meant more traffic to gaming channels after people spend about 30 seconds watching a "Just Chatting" topless stream.
(Listen, if you're the type of person who could get off on Twitch, you're clearly not a person with sexual stamina lol)
I dunno man livestreams go on for hours...
The problem with the you wouldn't have got that viewer anyway counter argument is that it assumes that person came to twitch looking for that type of content. Chances are if your looking for that type of content you wouldn't be looking on twitch.
on twitch - Mainly People Do - Just Chatting (Talk Show/Other Stuff) - "Watch along" (React Content) - Play Popular Game... (until it Dies out then Back to React Content)...
and Most people that i at least watch on Twitch are on the Lewder Side of the Spectrum...
on the Night its Mainly Art Streams... Since Everyone Else just Sleeps xD....
in this stream: Luke briefly breaking the Geneva convention
It sounds like Linus and Luke were unaware of the fact that UA-cam has had an 18+ filter for years and years now, and that it has allowed some pretty racy stuff for almost as long.
I guess one thing people arent saying at the moment is... while youtube, twitter, etc have content with nudity in it, it doesn't come onto the front page UNLESS you specifically search for it regularly enough for the algorithm to decide that's all you want to see. Especially if you are not logged in or you are logged in with an underage account. Although you may accidentally see it occasionally regardless that is OCCASIONALLY whereas during this whole saga NSFW content was showing up on the front page! and that's mainly because it was made "the hot topic of the internet" so obviously everyone was searching for it, pushing that type of content to the top. twitch probably would've had a lot less issues with keeping the same policy up (the one that allowed all the nudity etc) but SUPPRESS that type of content from the homepage for like a month or three to let the internet calm down... then hopefully it becomes a type of content that... yeah it's there but you only see it if you search for it because the algorithm doesn't get this huge spike of people searching for NSFW content.
So they reverted the change based on the concern of drawings but still allow anything related to sexual content and technically "they don't" but due to twitch's incompetence the site doesn't even feel like a game streaming site anymore, i keep thinking i click on the wrong link in my bookmarks ;)
"Sticking to one's guns" seems to be a common figure of speech in the broader Commonwealth...
We use it the states too, or at least the part that I'm from
as for "just avoiding it", I'm not sure if that's even feasible. on youtube, I've almost never been recommended lewd or adult content, even though I will find it if I really go out of my way to do so. I don't use twitch much but whenever I do go there, the adult content is always put directly in front of my face. I'd have to completely avoid entire categories (like just chatting) but even then it still can leak onto my front page. this is all just my personal experience, but I think that's why no one sees it as a problem on youtube, but they do for twitch, because twitch is much worse at separating the safe/unsafe content
> googles Morgpie
regret
My attitude towards this is the same as towards certain categories of fanfiction: I'm pro tag-your-shit. As long as the choice is in the viewer's hands as to whether or not they view the content, that's the main thing. And the punishment comes if somebody _doesn't_ tag their shit and thus violates the viewer's consent. Maybe Twitch can learn a thing or two from AO3's tagging system 😛
I’m also going to add that if your stream is tagged 18+ that it should probably be pixelated slightly. I don’t have a problem with a lot of what the women are doing but I wish that twitch could through on a little bit of pixelation.
@@aidantawney4776 100%! And make whatever 18+ option very easy to swap on or off. Since, y'know, Twitch is often second-screen content while people are working and might not want to accidentally have NSFW images on their second screen in such an environment. Or if they're logged into their Twitch account when they open it with their kiddos to watch a Minecraft stream or something!
I think the bigger problem is that we just as a society haven't had the conversation that parents need to be more involved in what their kids do online, so we freak out about what kids might see since they seem to just be given free-range online access from age 5 and up in an unfortunately large number of instances. I'm not a pearl-clutcher at all, I know what I was doing online at 13-14 even when it was still dialup, but even then, I just kinda feel like parents have a hard time with twitch at the best of times. It's a website HEAVILY marketed towards minors, and has a colossal user base of kids. I don't use or know how twitch works, really, but a family mode that simply locks/hides the categories like "just chatting" or other channels that do more risque content and only allows the game streaming ones (which most kids seem to be there for) and just having a ZERO tolerance policy for even PG-13 levels of skin on streamers while they're hosting content in those channels might at least alleviate a lot of this. UA-cam has parental controls, why the fuck doesn't twitch? Twitch streamers could indicate that their channel is kid friendly or not and be banned for violating that filter, just like youtube does.
I think the biggest issue seems to be that parents aren't involved enough with their kids online in the first place, which there's kind of no excuse for anymore, since most parents these days did grow up alongside the early internet, and it's made worse by the blatant lack of twitch doing anything to put parental controls on a service that they also want to market heavily towards both kids and adults.
The primary issue here is that twitch was not at all prepared to take this level of a change on this suddenly.
Itd be one thing if they changed the policy about this but u dont just inact HUGE policy changes like this in a matter of a couple of days.
They needed to be sure that these streams wouldnt be the face of twitch, there was a seperate section in place where the whole thumbnail was blurred unless u choose to turn safe search off, prevent people not logged into an account from viewing that content.
The issue here isnt whether twitch allowed it its that they gave it such a nonchalent approach that made it feel like they took no time to think about anything but the money. There was a way of doing this that caused a buzz but didnt cause a full on stir.
But what i find most interesting is how many streamers who were against gambling on twitch were just fine with softcore AV. The hypocrisy in that is insane.
The only reason Twitch responded is because likely advertisers threatened to pull out because it's on their front page.
0:51 bhahahahahaha ya just couldnt help ya self aye lolz
I think the main reasoning behind the changes was to silence backlash regarding favorability towards or against female streamers. There's an endless number of controversies of female streamers accusing Twitch of over-enforcing nudity rules for clothing twitch deems as too revealing or sexual, or other general cases of skirting the line. At the same time, I constantly hear male streamers claiming twitch is significantly more lenient towards female streamers especially regarding nudity. It's a never ending debate, and a debate where both sides see twitch in the wrong.
Twitch is not being unfairly singled out here, UA-cam explicitly does not allow any nudity and content towing that line isn't as common, definitely not on the homepage. Even in this clip, the Twitch homepage without fail is too close to being nsfw to show on stream in its entirety. Twitch being a predominantly live video streaming service isn't making matters any better either. It's a lot easier to review videos before they're uploaded than moderating thousands of concurrent live feeds in real time. Don't get me wrong, some content that breaks Tos is going to fall through the cracks no matter what. With that said, unlike on Twitch, you probably won't find explicit content on UA-cam even if you're looking for it. UA-cam has the luxury of screening videos before they're posted, rather than taking down a stream or its Vod after the fact.
But more than anything else, I think the root cause of Twitch's moderation being so controversial is that most content creators on twitch are individual personalities. In contrast, I'd guess the average UA-cam uploader is an anon reposting a video they saw somewhere else on the internet. This disconnect between the content of the video and the uploader makes UA-cam's moderation based on the content of the video rather than the uploader. In most popular Twitch streams, the streamer literally is the content, so Twitch disapproving of the content of a stream can easily be twisted into them personally disapproving the streamer. The result is an onslaught of community outcry of fans reacting to their favorite streamer getting banned. In the eyes of bitter streamers, Twitch banning them is a personal attack against their conduct and or themselves as a person. It's not difficult to see how this relationship can lead to inconsistent rule enforcement and timidness to take action against violations as to avoid aggravating a streamer's community. This recent controversy is just another permutation of Twitch struggling to find their footing with content moderation while juggling community backlash.
#TLDR
0:58 "technically true" 😂 it is just true
My thought process is if they created an “incognito mode” where you had to open a separate version of twitch to view it that could work.
Also there is an argument to be made that if there were people on twitch streaming gaming etc, but in their birthday suit, it may help de sexualise nude bodies. As there is a very binary separation between nude bodies and normal non sexual activity.
i think twitch should allow nudity , then have a setting to block nude streamers to protect children , make it password protected with a password parents can set , and require streamers to use a keyword saying there is nudity in the stream , if they fail to do so instant permanent ban. im a devout Christian, however practical solutions need to be implemented , twitch is a moderation nightmare, i think the measures i suggested above, would go a long way to balance freedom of expression with protecting children and allowing adults to block content they dont want to see .
TwitchFans
But in all seriousness Twitch was never a gaming only platform. Time for another company to step up and take that market.
most disappointing part of the whole stream was Linus admitting that he only played 30 min of Witcher 3.
Twitch should just make an 18+porn section at this point. And only verified users can access it.and let people do what they are going to do.
Isn't this a filtration issue? Even if most platforms have spicy content, they don't usually hit you in the face when you're first hitting the landing page or take up 80% of screen real estate. That sounds like the filtration or content reached stupid levels Twitch couldn't handle & people misidentified. Then again I don't know this stuff nearly that well.
Until people learn to be comfortable with each other's bodies there is going to continue to be this absurd objectification of each other happening.
Someone can be looking for a gaming stream to watch, but when that b**by thumbnail shows up, they click on that instead. And then because they've clicked on it, it'll get recommended more, so it seems like that's what people are looking for, while it's not. It's better not to have the s**ual content mixed with regular content. It's okay to have it on the platform, if it's in a separate section.
As a Twitch user I think this is a non issue. Why is no one talking about the real issue Twitch can easily fix. Copyrighted music. Easy fix would be to just allow streamers to play Amazon music during a stream
I'm pretty sure that would violate thousands of rights agreements between Amazon music and different music labels and artists. I think that would work fine for music added to Amazon music that has opted in to letting live streamers use their music royalty free and without permission. By licensing music to be streamed on Amazon music, Amazon isn't being given free rein of distribution of any music on the service unless specifically arranging that with the rights holder.
@@gulapula Amazon could easily fix any issues and concerns with this. All Amazon would have to do is go to the record labels or whoever they are licensing the music from. Tell them we want to make Amazon music available for Twitch streamers to use while streaming. An example of what Twitch/Amazon could do is Amazon music accounts for streamers. Royalties for the use of the music played on Twitch would come from this. In my experience I would have to say this would make Twitch way more money than loosening the rules to allow controversial content ever will
@noway5052 Hi everyone, welcome to my new music streaming radio show channel where you can listen to all your favorite hits for free. Be sure to leave some donations if you want to request anything specific.
I just broke your concept in seconds. Your idea is bad. You are wrong. It would be impossible for amazon to negotiate a deal like that anyways. the music companies would NEVER agree.
@@Whatsup_Abroad If record labels are making money off the songs played like I had suggested they wouldn't care about what you are saying. Also currently other than discouraging people from playing copyright music. Twitch doesn't do anything to stop it. Other than they mute VODS where copyright music is played. With what I am suggesting everyone wins. Unlike how things are currently being done. Plus what I suggested makes more money for the record labels or artists. Then what a massive number of people do every day on UA-cam. Listen to those same songs on a free UA-cam account with ads blocked
A study was done some years ago indicating "music sharing" actually increased sales of music. Sales go up.
To be fair luke, some amt of people who are watching half naked tiddy streamers would actually still be on twitch watching actual gaming content if not for them, even if the majority of them would have just been on some random camsite instead
Unironically, the current internet should be hardline 18+ or if a minor uses it, it's only under a supervision of an adult.
And there should be another internet, in parallel, can use the same infrastructure but completely separate DNSes, severs, etc. that is only for children, parents, moderators (it should be heavily moderated), education system workers and maybe the governmental offices abd such. Accounts allowing to log on to connect at all created by schools for actual children, parents, etc., all traffic logged and tracked by name of the user. And so on. I see no other way of minimising children's exposure to over sexualisation of everything.
Of course the problem would be to get all the countries of the world on board to participate in that.
I was really hoping to see Luke wearing pasties
But advertising dollars are not driven JUST by eyeballs - they're driven by the content categories that relevant, highest paying ads can appear next to. Few reputable businesses want to be seen next to boobs and butts, because it's not the context that is driving relevant clicks and potential purchases for them. You should know as much running your channel on UA-cam which, as tech, attracts more valuable advertisers from the tech space than gardening shows.
linus blindly showing lukes screen was brave😅
It should be banned entirely. It doesnt matter how easily found the content is elsewhere. Twitch is a platform used primarily by teens. It is advertising sexual content to minors.
Twitch is place for 304 to be 304 with a side of games.
I think the changes should've stayed, but they probably shouldn't have made it their homepage lol. Why would you put 18+ boob streams on the front-page unless you're literally Pornhub?
And they changed their mind like the next day
Edit:
Also. I think there is a general understanding with the initial post I made that seems to be underlying but not addressed. There is a concept in Law that refers to "Intent". For this context, the intent to sell a product to someone under good faith. My initial post recognizes that there is a line between acceptable content. But, does not directly address what that line means. In essence, the issue I have with the changes to Twitch are the fact that the "Actors" do not sell their product in good faith. Yes, an individual my also attach themselves to anyone else. And it should be on them if they spend their life savings to a twitch streamer. But, that intent of the streamer is what matters. Someone who is just trying in earnest to be a health and wholesome streamer is not intentionally trying to form a prosocial relationship. It's not their fault when someone donates all of their money to them, it just happens sometimes. BUT. When a Titty Streamer gets on camera to specifically take advantage of said people who have these problems. That's when the intention is malicious. Sure, the outcome is the same. "If you don't like it, don't watch." But the fundamental problem is that Grey area where these Titty Streamers hide. They fully know what they are doing. And when they are called out on it they hide behind a "Plausible Deniability." It needs to be on Twitch the platform to clearly and explicitly define rules. And when Streams find a loophole to do bad, Twitch needs to patch that loophole.
Original post:
Allowing sexual content on twitch is a problem because it preys specifically on the psychology of those individuals who cannot distinguish between real life and content. There are real actual mental disorders that cause people to be unable to separate themselves from content creators. Twitch was not allowing explicit content before. Meaning that those who are aware of their disorders would be able to recognize that Twitch was a safe space for them.
To suddenly change the terms to allow explicit content. Without also notifying these individuals who expect Twitch to be a safe place is Discriminatory and best and malpractice at worst. OnlyFans was/is new. It was trying to COMPETE against things like Twitch and or Patreon. There was a deliberate expectation if an individual was to go OnlyFans that the rules would not be the same. Twitch suddenly changing the content is actually harmful.
Now replace all that with "violence on TV," "videogames," or any of the other things puritans have inserted into the naughty slot and have a good, long, hard look at yourself. Away from the hand lotion.
@@custos3249 I genuinely have no Idea what you mean. I'm sorry.
@@steve_account Ya don't say. Almost like you're ignorant or something.
Also. I think there is a general understanding with the initial post I made that seems to be underlying but not addressed. There is a concept in Law that refers to "Intent". For this context, the intent to sell a product to someone under good faith. My initial post recognizes that there is a line between acceptable content. But, does not directly address what that line means. In essence, the issue I have with the changes to Twitch are the fact that the "Actors" do not sell their product in good faith. Yes, an individual my also attach themselves to anyone else. And it should be on them if they spend their life savings to a twitch streamer. But, that intent of the streamer is what matters. Someone who is just trying in earnest to be a health and wholesome streamer is not intentionally trying to form a prosocial relationship. It's not their fault when someone donates all of their money to them, it just happens sometimes. BUT. When a Titty Streamer gets on camera to specifically take advantage of said people who have these problems. That's when the intention is malicious. Sure, the outcome is the same. "If you don't like it, don't watch." But the fundamental problem is that Grey area where these Titty Streamers hide. They fully know what they are doing. And when they are called out on it they hide behind a "Plausible Deniability." It needs to be on Twitch the platform to clearly and explicitly define rules. And when Streams find a loophole to do bad, Twitch needs to patch that loophole.
I feel bad for 18+ Artists on twitch
They should allow 18+ content, but enforce verification in some way (like subbing) to see it, and they should also blur that stuff by default unless you change your configs
thought the naked truth was on kick . . just about
Bringing the chatters that come to twitch for that type of content, makes the site even more unfriendly to one of half the population, both as viewers and streamers. It was already an issue that on twitch, 99% of the community that you see in chats are dudes, even in streams which should appeal to both(!) genders somewhat equally.
I just wanted to say, remember Billet Labs? I wonder how those guys are doing. Can you make a video Linus?
internet was a mistake
Silicon Lottery!!!!
Ehh, I don't follow twitch for the same reason I don't bother with Instagram or TikTok. Too many pick me half naked women on these accounts praying on simps and their money. UA-cam is just barely getting by imho because for the most part I can open the app or web page and not be bombarded with tons of Tikthots or thirst traps when all I want to watch is the new post from Weston Chaplain or something like that. God forbid if I'm scrolling through content I actually follow and watch but accidentally hit one thirst trap video...that's all I'll see for a damn month until the Algorithmic Gods finally determine that I don't give a single F about some "gAmIr GuRl" and her bathwater scented car candles.
UA-cam doesn't recommend any b***y content to me. Idk if it does to you guys.
Twitch reversed the decision because advertisers
Thots for dollars. Business as usual at twitch then.
Welp.
Sex sells.
eyeless media group
It’s a bit like me watching it only for sarah ahahah
Meaning watching you
I'm grown up, I'd say very grown up 😂 and I strictly watch gaming streams on twitch, yet Twitch is trying to make me click on that nasty content even if I NEVER CLICKED on it, it tries to shove it down my throat, so my issue with that is that there are kids on that platform, IT SHOULD NOT BE THERE! I don't mind such a content but it should be on a different platform. Twitch is big enough to be able to separate their content.
I think Nicky Manasj and Kardi B are the same person.