I'd still prefer if Magik said "On reveal, of it's not turn 6, change this location to Limbo". That way you could at least play her on turn 6, even without the effect.
I’ve had fun with her in lists that play her behind invisible woman, combos into some sneaky 8 cube wins because players overcompensate for a stacked turn 6 not anticipating 7
I think that frequent balance changes ( every month) is ABSOLUTELY necessary in a game with such a limited card pool. Especially when 95% of players don’t have access to pool 4/5 cards. Every new card released outside of the BP does almost nothing to shake the meta up because of this.
This kind of retrospective is really interesting - I'd love to see a video of what the top decks during the beta were, and how they would play today comparatively.
Initial Beta Nova, Carnage, Devil Dino, moon girl was absolutely insane. turn 6 with double devil dino or the flexability with everyone being in pools 1-2 and only some 3 was a really fun meta even zoo worked because so many people didn't own killmonger at the time.
Okoye has been balanced twice! She was a 2/1 and THEN a 1/1 before settling at 2/2. The tweaks are really interesting as an insight into how they think cards like her should play.
I've only been playing since global release, but I'd heard rumors of some of these oppressive decks, in particular the "Nova - Moon Girl" meta. However, my big takeaway is that the balance team knows what they are doing -- lowering the power of cards while still keeping them playable (in most cases) is a tough balancing act! I have high hopes they will continue to thread that needle for the current problem cards, Galactus and Leader.
Here's a good one you forgot, Jeff: Jubilee used to pull the top card of your deck. The way Chavez interacts with your deck and draws meant it nearly always pulled Chavez. When it was changed to a random card a lot of people complained it would be unplayable. Well, here we are. It's the same every change. Some people have no imagination.
Thanks for the history lesson! I can see how some of the cards appeared to be balanced by relative standards, but the powerful synergies break parity. For example Swordmaster at 3/6 discard 1 vs old Hellcow at 2/6 discard 2. Seems like a reasonable tradeoff until the "downside" becomes an upside. Looking forward to some balance changes, Dekkster mentioned changing the Broodlings to be 2-cost and I think that's an elegant nerf to Silver Surfer without breaking Patriot or Cerebro synergies. As someone who hasn't bought season passes, I hope 2nd Dinner isn't too hesitant to nerf cards like Zabu and Surfer.
Closed beta, what a time to play this game! I didn't have the opportunity, but I LOVE busted shit and this video is amazing to showcase said busted things. Mr Negative at 4 power. What the actual fuck?!?!
It was actually a 4 / 4 card, not bad for such an impactful ability, then it got changed to a 4 / 1 and then the current statline. The -1 fits it thematically indeed and you can still flip it with the Peak location or Bast it up to 3 in your hand.
Jeff, I have a question: are you pronouncing Modok incorrectly a meme (kinda like Bynx calling Magneto Magento) or just a mistake? I have seen a bunch of videos of yours mentioning him and it's always called "Mo-DECK" when the correct pronunciation is "Mo-DOCK". Modok's name is an acronym that means [M]ental [O]rganism [D]esigned [O]nly for [K]illing, so there's no [E] in there. Just thought to let you know.
Love this level of analysis and insight. If only the people who make unreasonable claims about card changes were reasonable enough to watch and listen!
I find Snap to be very balanced overall. While there may be some really good cards, there are few game breaking ones and even fewer that have no use whatsoever.
Great video. I have been playing since beta and got to experience those decks. The vast majority of nerfs have been great. I do think that cards like Magik suffer because it's hard to find a middle ground. She went from the GOAT that also dumpstered another problematic card to being fairly niche. It will be interesting to see what they do with Zabu. I think Surfer can be nerfed just fine. But the brokenness of Zabu is why its played.
with what you're saying about Magik, do you think we'll see the same thing with Kang since that's basically his ability to rewind the play after seeing it?
Not likely, since Kang restarts the turn. Part of what made Magik so strong was that she locked in your opponent’s plays, giving you perfect information about where their power will be deployed. Kang will create a lot of 50/50 situations since the opponent is free to redeploy their power to different lanes rather than being committed to where they initially played out
The nova meta made me quit playing for 2 months or so. I missed out on the daredevil and black panther season passes because I couldn't stand the dino/nova meta.
Nakia needs something to make her more playable. If she gave every card in my hand +1 I would be more willing to play her in a deck that needs that extra boost of power like Deadpool or even Human Torch decks. Of course Bast would still be the better option for those decks.
that's exactly her ability before. + 1 to all cards in hand. it was nerfed to what it is today because it was part of a lot of busted combos. zoo, swarm, etc.
seems silly that +2 seems like much when silver surfer comes down and buffs 5+ cards for 3 rather easily and is just stupid with Mr. Negative. Honestly even she did give +2 to the entire hand today it seems tame compared to the stuff that is currently in play.
Am I remembering correctly that Okoye was first a 2/2 that gave +2 to everything in your deck? Then they changed her to the 1-energy/+1 mentioned in the video.
i really appreciate all the developer friendly commentaries, fairly lacking with content creators sometimes. I do hope they manage to balance the current top meta surfer and zabu in a satisfying way
btw I was meaning to ask but what do u think about mission refreshes with gold instead for f2p I find myself looking forward to playing more different decks much more than get more varriants and this way i get credits that become a bottleneck to upgrade cards and could get a varriant or 2 in the reserves anyways
Lol Okoye was too powerful when you drew her on turn 1 and gave + 5 power if you played all the cards? Meanwhile Bast is giving much more than 5 even when you draw it later in the game.
@@HooglandiaSnap Fair, at least its not as wide spread as Okoye probably was. But it does slot easily into the existing archetype of Mr. Negative decks, an already powerful archetype. So, I wouldn't call the deck build requirement that much of a downside.
I’m sure that balancing patches for games will become more common and easier to conceptualize as AI continues to evolve… and that’s gonna get faster with the ChatGPT craze, Second Dinner will almost be able to ask “how can I buff X card withou affecting such and such” and get tons of prompts. Anyway… this comment is way longer than I anticipated, so I’ll just continue writing a bit more I guess. So… em this is awkward. Im gonna go now.
You're giving too much credit to that AI's capabilities. It can only regurgitate what already exists somewhere on the Internet, and then assemble what it found based on probabilities. In other words, it's not able to come up with whole new solutions, especially on a subject as recent and specific as Marvel Snap.
I deleted the game. Just wanted to stop by and say thanks for all the good quality content! Hope Snap gets even better and everyone enjoys it for many years
@@Marvel_Contest_Of_Champions :) :) :) aaand the moment has come for the patronizing infant to lecture the guy who was playing in MtG Grand Prix since Invasions. Thank you for the lecture, sweet 16 year old, but understand the math doesn’t mean a meta is fun.
I'd still prefer if Magik said "On reveal, of it's not turn 6, change this location to Limbo". That way you could at least play her on turn 6, even without the effect.
@@warp3k magik is still an on reveal card
i 100% agree with you
Not sure I'd play a 5-3 card with not effect
@@xoGetCarteRox they’re probably talking about a negative deck top decking a 3/5 magik on turn 6
I’ve had fun with her in lists that play her behind invisible woman, combos into some sneaky 8 cube wins because players overcompensate for a stacked turn 6 not anticipating 7
As someone who has been playing since the start of closed beta this was a wonderful walk down a lane of terrible memories.
I think we know what a 4 energy Devil Dinosaur would look like: Dark Hawk
I think that frequent balance changes ( every month) is ABSOLUTELY necessary in a game with such a limited card pool. Especially when 95% of players don’t have access to pool 4/5 cards. Every new card released outside of the BP does almost nothing to shake the meta up because of this.
This kind of retrospective is really interesting - I'd love to see a video of what the top decks during the beta were, and how they would play today comparatively.
Initial Beta Nova, Carnage, Devil Dino, moon girl was absolutely insane. turn 6 with double devil dino or the flexability with everyone being in pools 1-2 and only some 3 was a really fun meta even zoo worked because so many people didn't own killmonger at the time.
I came here to comment that 3 cost moon girl and 4 cost Dino gave me nightmares during my nap today. Surfer and Zabu need adjustments. 😢
Okoye has been balanced twice! She was a 2/1 and THEN a 1/1 before settling at 2/2. The tweaks are really interesting as an insight into how they think cards like her should play.
@@omerpockard7212 I thought so, but wasn't 100% sure!
I've only been playing since global release, but I'd heard rumors of some of these oppressive decks, in particular the "Nova - Moon Girl" meta. However, my big takeaway is that the balance team knows what they are doing -- lowering the power of cards while still keeping them playable (in most cases) is a tough balancing act! I have high hopes they will continue to thread that needle for the current problem cards, Galactus and Leader.
Here's a good one you forgot, Jeff: Jubilee used to pull the top card of your deck. The way Chavez interacts with your deck and draws meant it nearly always pulled Chavez. When it was changed to a random card a lot of people complained it would be unplayable. Well, here we are.
It's the same every change. Some people have no imagination.
Thanks for the history lesson! I can see how some of the cards appeared to be balanced by relative standards, but the powerful synergies break parity. For example Swordmaster at 3/6 discard 1 vs old Hellcow at 2/6 discard 2. Seems like a reasonable tradeoff until the "downside" becomes an upside.
Looking forward to some balance changes, Dekkster mentioned changing the Broodlings to be 2-cost and I think that's an elegant nerf to Silver Surfer without breaking Patriot or Cerebro synergies. As someone who hasn't bought season passes, I hope 2nd Dinner isn't too hesitant to nerf cards like Zabu and Surfer.
Really enjoyed the insight into past card changes here. I didn't know SNAP existed until the Global release, so this is interesting to see!
Closed beta, what a time to play this game! I didn't have the opportunity, but I LOVE busted shit and this video is amazing to showcase said busted things. Mr Negative at 4 power. What the actual fuck?!?!
And here I thought the -1 for mister negative was just a play on the name
It was actually a 4 / 4 card, not bad for such an impactful ability, then it got changed to a 4 / 1 and then the current statline. The -1 fits it thematically indeed and you can still flip it with the Peak location or Bast it up to 3 in your hand.
Magik was what kang will become lol
I am very engaged with this UA-cam video, dear Algorithm.
Very engaged.
Jeff, I have a question: are you pronouncing Modok incorrectly a meme (kinda like Bynx calling Magneto Magento) or just a mistake? I have seen a bunch of videos of yours mentioning him and it's always called "Mo-DECK" when the correct pronunciation is "Mo-DOCK".
Modok's name is an acronym that means [M]ental [O]rganism [D]esigned [O]nly for [K]illing, so there's no [E] in there.
Just thought to let you know.
Great video, nice to hear about what the game was like before launch.
Love this level of analysis and insight. If only the people who make unreasonable claims about card changes were reasonable enough to watch and listen!
I find Snap to be very balanced overall. While there may be some really good cards, there are few game breaking ones and even fewer that have no use whatsoever.
Now I want a false swipe gaming style video of the marvel snap closed beta meta game
To be fair I am playing lady sif ghost rider on turn 5 today in my zabucula deck.
Would love to see a viable movement archetype. Has so much potential
Move needs buffs or new tools to be playable.
Great video. I have been playing since beta and got to experience those decks.
The vast majority of nerfs have been great. I do think that cards like Magik suffer because it's hard to find a middle ground. She went from the GOAT that also dumpstered another problematic card to being fairly niche.
It will be interesting to see what they do with Zabu. I think Surfer can be nerfed just fine. But the brokenness of Zabu is why its played.
with what you're saying about Magik, do you think we'll see the same thing with Kang since that's basically his ability to rewind the play after seeing it?
Not likely, since Kang restarts the turn. Part of what made Magik so strong was that she locked in your opponent’s plays, giving you perfect information about where their power will be deployed. Kang will create a lot of 50/50 situations since the opponent is free to redeploy their power to different lanes rather than being committed to where they initially played out
Good content. I started at release so this video was pretty entertaining.
I hope they make obtaining cards more easier after this balance changes so we could explore more options to play and to adapt with.
This video was really fun and informative!
All these cards have something in common, none of them are in the goal, one or the other are still playable
The nova meta made me quit playing for 2 months or so. I missed out on the daredevil and black panther season passes because I couldn't stand the dino/nova meta.
Bust-(belch)-ed 😂😂😂
loved this video! thanks for the dive into the past
Nakia needs something to make her more playable. If she gave every card in my hand +1 I would be more willing to play her in a deck that needs that extra boost of power like Deadpool or even Human Torch decks. Of course Bast would still be the better option for those decks.
that's exactly her ability before. + 1 to all cards in hand. it was nerfed to what it is today because it was part of a lot of busted combos. zoo, swarm, etc.
@@HVBRSoF +2 actually.
seems silly that +2 seems like much when silver surfer comes down and buffs 5+ cards for 3 rather easily and is just stupid with Mr. Negative. Honestly even she did give +2 to the entire hand today it seems tame compared to the stuff that is currently in play.
ive been waiting for Shuri to drop to 3000 so i can get her, i really hope they don't nerf her yet lol
Marvel snap video! No way! Engagement!
Am I remembering correctly that Okoye was first a 2/2 that gave +2 to everything in your deck? Then they changed her to the 1-energy/+1 mentioned in the video.
@@omerpockard7212 Good knowledge.
i really appreciate all the developer friendly commentaries, fairly lacking with content creators sometimes. I do hope they manage to balance the current top meta surfer and zabu in a satisfying way
Magiks nerf is exactly what Leader needs. Change Leader so that he cannot be used after turn 5.
Ahh Good old days when jubilee simp for chavez
btw I was meaning to ask but what do u think about mission refreshes with gold instead for f2p
I find myself looking forward to playing more different decks much more than get more varriants and this way i get credits that become a bottleneck to upgrade cards and could get a varriant or 2 in the reserves anyways
It is a fine use of gold.
need my lady sif back to 2 cost
Once MODOK gets released hell cow will become bad card and also nakia should give the next two cards +2 power
Wasn’t Devil Dinosaur also plus 3 power for each card in hand ? Talking about busted cards
You are misremembering Ronan who was +3 per card in opponents hand for a short while.
@@HooglandiaSnap you’re absolutely right, I got it all mixed up. Should have checked before commenting 😩
Kids today will never know the power of closed beta Nova. #SnapBoomer
Lol Okoye was too powerful when you drew her on turn 1 and gave + 5 power if you played all the cards? Meanwhile Bast is giving much more than 5 even when you draw it later in the game.
Bast has a very real and strict deck building requirement.
@@HooglandiaSnap Fair, at least its not as wide spread as Okoye probably was. But it does slot easily into the existing archetype of Mr. Negative decks, an already powerful archetype. So, I wouldn't call the deck build requirement that much of a downside.
This is a great video. It is important to give Second Dinner credit for some truly excellent balance patches in 2022.
I rather give them credit for excellent balance patches in 2023, but yea .. good job :)
I’m sure that balancing patches for games will become more common and easier to conceptualize as AI continues to evolve… and that’s gonna get faster with the ChatGPT craze, Second Dinner will almost be able to ask “how can I buff X card withou affecting such and such” and get tons of prompts. Anyway… this comment is way longer than I anticipated, so I’ll just continue writing a bit more I guess. So… em this is awkward. Im gonna go now.
You're giving too much credit to that AI's capabilities. It can only regurgitate what already exists somewhere on the Internet, and then assemble what it found based on probabilities. In other words, it's not able to come up with whole new solutions, especially on a subject as recent and specific as Marvel Snap.
I deleted the game. Just wanted to stop by and say thanks for all the good quality content! Hope Snap gets even better and everyone enjoys it for many years
@@Marvel_Contest_Of_Champions :) :) :) aaand the moment has come for the patronizing infant to lecture the guy who was playing in MtG Grand Prix since Invasions. Thank you for the lecture, sweet 16 year old, but understand the math doesn’t mean a meta is fun.
@@Marvel_Contest_Of_Champions the game is 90% math? Yeah, right. Try to say that after you have consistent 10~20 games winning with your own deck.