A Lost War: Victor Davis Hanson and H. R. McMaster on Afghanistan’s Past, Present, and Future
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- Опубліковано 19 вер 2021
- Recorded on September 17, 2021
General H. R. McMaster and military historian Victor Davis Hanson are both senior fellows at the Hoover Institution. In this frank, no-holds-barred conversation, they discuss the United States’ mission in Afghanistan: how it began, how it was conducted, and its ignominious end. McMaster and Hanson debate what worked and what failed, how social issues in the United States may have influenced our mission in Afghanistan and our decision to leave, and whether or not the United States should have continued to maintain a presence instead of leaving in a matter of weeks, abandoning thousands of Afghans loyal to the US mission there (as well as an unknown number of US citizens) after 20 years of military operations in the country.
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Man I have never seen this level of heat in a Goodfellas-type conversation. Fascinating though.
The question was asked, "is the military politicized?"
My question is, "why is General Milley so concerned with the subject of white rage? What are examples of this "white rage" in the military and civil society?
Are these examples prevalent in either the military or in civil society?
HR was quite defensive I think because he still feels a part of the military, Victor was explaining the context of American fatigue vis a vis Afghanistan, not necessarily saying that it was correct or that HR advanced such ideas.
Brilliant move getting Victor Davis Hanson and H.R. McMaster together to talk about Afghanistan.
Victor Davis Hanson is brilliant.
Mr. Hansen is spot on…... To pretend otherwise is negligent.
VDH is an exceptional speaker and intellectual. Hands down. The post modernist progressive movement is liken to a mental illness, and a blight on the West. Unfortunately we have to endure it and prevail.
Victor Davis Hanson is exceptional, leading right wing intelectual
VDH is such an impressive historian.
The invasion in Afganistan was a preventable disaster. Great to see more interviews with Victor Davis Hanson, we hope to get more of Thomas Sowell soon!
PS: In 70 and 71 I was in the Army, trained as a Chinook mechanic but quickly volunteered for the flight platoon...not a stay on the base kind of guy. At that time there were certainly racial tensions among us drafted or as myself volunteers for the draft - two year men.
Among the career soldiers (lifers), I saw not even a hint of racism in my 19 mo served (got the "early out" after my tour in Nam).
I was impressed back then to see the Army, in my observations at least, to be a colorblind organization.
I also saw the racism among the non-career recruits - coming from both sides. I was threatened with being "cut up" by one guy, nothing came of it thankfully. Don't think I could have handled him, pretty rugged black guy.
Drinking moonshine with some N Carolina guys in AIT at Fort Eustis in VA, they got the idea we should go downstairs in the barracks to "beat up on" three black kids I was quite friendly with. These were very nice black kids in bunks adjacent to mine.
So I said, "They are nice guys, you go down to fight them and I'll be on their side." That sunk the idea and basically ended my hanging out with the group, those white guys were all in all a good group themselves - just stuck in their bias.
To conclude: I heartily agree with you all in rejecting this "Woke" S__t going on in today's top notch all volunteer military. An insult to the world's greatest fighting force and guarantor of freedom since the end of WW2.
We must rise up to stop it.
Thanks again Guys and Hoover
This is the best Uncommon Knowledge video yet. As a Vietnam Veteran I would have loved to have been there to ask some question and throw some thoughts out. I'm not a bitter veteran, I just seem to always question where we went wrong. I think I see what our policies should have been in Afghanistan. I'm sure I will watch this video again and maybe again. I only wish our presidents would.
As much as I like HR, Victor is bang on the money!
A passionate conversation. McMaster is impressive but loses his temper a little as he struggles to keep up with the intricacies of Hanson's arguments.
Great discussion. Interesting to see Victor Davis Hanson and H.R. McMaster challenge each other on certain points.
These two need to get together more often. Fantastic discussion.
This was an amazing back and forth. Seeing Hanson and McMaster go at it while still having respect for eachother is refreshing and I do want to see more about the politicization of the military class.
One of the best interviews ever done! Wow!
Brilliant. The best analysis on Afghanistan I’ve seen to date. Peter please never stop interviewing, you’re the best in the game!
McMaster did not expect any historic academic to bring so much unleashed knowledge of the intense history of war to the table. That’s why Hanson is the person that should be in the room when the government thinks they have a big idea.
I worked for a company with about $3 billion in sales, employed about 14,000 people, and provided products to other companies to produce thousands of different kinds of products. So, when I hear $106 billion of US tax payer money (not the government's money, but citizen's money) treated like chump change with 40% of it simply disappearing, I lose faith in our system. I am hardly alone. How much did the US embassy in Kabul cost? About $800 million? Hardly even worth counting, unless you worked for it, which the spenders did not.
Oh, and HR: Victor is correct about the current military brass, particularly Milley Vanilli. Good luck attracting the best and the brightest with clowns like that in charge of the troops. The brass basically told the US middle that they are not wanted. I can see it now. Safe spaces and puppy dogs at West Point. Yessir, Kim, Xi, and Vladimir must be pinching themselves daily. As Pogo said, we have seen the enemy and he is us.
You can hear it in HR's voice, irresolvable frustration at the misuse of the institution he loves and has devoted his life to
Brilliant! I look forward to any interview with VDH. This exceeded my expectations and included free exchange of opinions as a bonus!
This is a year old. McMaster will be thrilled to hear about trans gender parties on base. We gave a 20 yr war enemy the 3rd largest base of military equipment in the world. McMaster needs to stop defending the military I grew up in and recognize the literal trainwreck that happened.
McMasters is quite the company man....Glad Hanson was there to keep hitting the truth over and over again.
Victor is spot on!
I find myself in disagreement with McMaster on so many things.
He has nothing but rose-tinted glasses on the entire military-industrial complex.
Thank God VDH is there.
Another interesting and insightful conversation as always with Uncommon Knowledge.
Being an active duty Marine with friends who were working in U.S. Embassy Kabul, I cannot help but feel like not only this administration, but the long line of military leaders and previous administrations have dropped the ball severely.
I know I can speak from experience that currently in the military, there is a very large distaste for the current administration; not only for some of its recent acting's in regards to race politics in the military, but as well for the way it has handled the withdrawal. Rising distaste I have not seen in military members since I have been in.
The resentment comes from all angles, all races. Black, Asian, White, Hispanic. From the Enlisted Corps to the Officer.
Thank you Peter for your amazing interviewing skills. VDH is an unparalleled historian , excellent!
Great stuff guys, thanks. Never seen Victor or HR get heated before.
Shout out to, quite possibly, the best moderator in the game, Peter Robinson, for asking such poignant and provoking questions so as to rouse these two brilliant minds into a lively debate. Lots of talking over one another, but great content nonetheless. You're greatly appreciated, Peter. Please do a follow-up episode
Where has McMaster been the last 8 months?
H.R. was too quick to anger at some points. It created some needless friction.
Always a pleasure to hear VDH.
Great discussion. I like how Vincent and HR pushed each other.
Victor Davis Hanson is a smart men.
HR, pipe down and hear Victor out!
Greetings from the U.K. I’d very much like to buy you three a beer! Best kind of conversation ever, sharp and blunt without being upset or sulky. You guys know your stuff and form opinions from your understanding of facts and not from a preselected political stance... and really intelligent chairing and that’s a skill in short supply! So thank you so much. I’ll pass this episode on to others, if I can find anyone open to it...
This is a really good back and forth between both men. Greatly appreciate the conversation.
Excellent! I learned more about Afghanistan during this last hour than in the last decade. Thank you.
Love you guys always but this was…awesome, glorious, urgently important, profound…just great. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your passionate, real, and thoroughgoing discussion of these most critical matters. I hope that the multitudes are listening. 🙏
@HR: Perhaps you might want to examine YOUR OWN behavior when you became triggered hearing the term "cannon fodder", while missing Professor Hanson's context. Consider the optics.
Excellent interview.
VDH is the GOAT
Very useful discussion and an inspiring speech by the General to end it off...and I say this as a Canadian
Excellent info! Thanks Peter. The main point i took from the conversation would be - Victor and H.R. agree on the point that the military's job is to "win" - with no doubt left in the mind of the "enemy" about the severity of response (i.e. deterrance). However, H.R. seemed to be too defensive of the military when Victor raised legit Qs on what 1) Milley et al. are doing now, and 2) what Haden & Co. did (said) regarding Trump.
These videos are gold. Thank you for the releases Hoover Institute
H. R. Is making an argument which no person in government was actually making. He's making an argument he wished government had made.
Please have a discussion w/just Victor Davis 🙏🏻 PLEASE!
Great discussion, btw!
Unsurpassed commentary,critique and rational optimism.Bravo VDH and H.R. you have the medicine for the sickness.Wonderful discussion.
Great discussion. Appreciate both Victor & HR. Looking forward to the next one where HR defends his statement that the US military is not politicized. 😊
Dynamic conversation between some of the most admirable men in our nation, imho. A lot to digest, and I want to believe that there is hope for the future of this great nation. Thankyou.
A very heated debate, yet respectful at all times.
Peter Robinson handled this with great skill and kept the topic on point.
A memorable debate; time well spent. 👏👏👏
This was wild. Thanks for taking the time to participate, guys.
Thank you gentlemen for that outstanding debate. Standing ovation, seriously in my tiny living room! Think I will replay this one.
I'm not too sure about McMaster....I think he undermined Trump.
Not even a mention of Pakistan and the aid and safe haven they gave to the Taliban. The ISI and Pakistan in general is surely happy about a successfull policy.
This was the best discussion yet. Hanson wouldn't let up on the military brass and McMaster kept blaming the politicians for putting the military in a difficult spot.
Two great minds contemplating our biggest foreign policy failure of my life time. ✅ Thank you 🙏 for this and wish I can meet VDH some day and talk history:)
Fascinating discussion!)
Wow.....wow.....wow..
That was some serious straight up spirited banter...VDH VS MCMASTER....The best pod I've seen in a long time...The politicization of the military...two very different opinions..Moderator/host nearly calls for help...Victor lays it down...mcmaster comes back swinging...Totally awesome...let's do it again...call it.."HOOVER THROW DOWN II".....THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
PS..
HANSON/MCMASTER for president 2024!!!
LOL. It was great.
Agree.
Totally agree with you Dawn, on all your points!
Near the end, around 1:15:58, General McMaster talks of agency. Yes, in principle we have agency, but my sense is that the present twenty-something generation does not want it, fears it, detests it, and prefers arguments of victimization, relieving them of agency.
RIght on, VDH. They screwed themselves; no doubt about it.
Great interview, finally the adults are talking.
From Greece: thank you for this conversation and a belated and much appreciated introduction to HR McMaster.
Amazing conversation...an actual intelligent discussion on the matter. Thank you!
38:00 “USNA is more post-modern and progressive than Stanford or Berkley.” -VDH
Great discussion.
Thank you very much!
Great work Peter! Scooby snacks for you Gen. McMaster, and Dr. Hanson.
My allegiance is to Liberty, the Republic, and Democracy.
The guests are great. And Peter Robinson is an excellent interviewer.
Great opportunity to incorporate Native people standards.
We can all build a better American life.
Good discussion, but necessitating a follow-up, especially after the Military's comments to Congressional hearings.
Another outstanding interview. Peter hit it out of the park with this one.
Sirs, in the Western world, in the Taiwanese Parliament, British Parliament, etc, we have gotten used, I guess, to seeing people agree heatedly with each other. But could we have some of the late George Schultz' quiet listening and then synthesizing before his questions or other riposte?
Intelligent questions, bright responses. Not usual these days. Thanks for the gift.
An elegant and eloquent conversation. Thank you.
Gold in video form
VDH was right
I need to watch this again, this seems scary alarming. But as much as a hate it I appreciate it. I don’t know why.
Scary to have generals like this.
We are not a serious people now. We are collapsing.
This was a really good watch and great discussion.
looking forward to a follow up convo
A follow up discussion will be appreciated. So much more to cover including Afganistan.
VDH always right.
Another great discussion. Thanks.
I wish there was a question on Afghanistan's future and possible sequence of future events
A magnificent discussion. Thank you.
Spectacular discussion. Peace can only be maintained through robust and credible stregnth.
An intense discourse.
Though they didn't really keep their own personal political tribalism out of the way of a true cost accounting critical analysis this was largely a good discussion. It was disappointing however that there was no mention of the true driver of and goal in USA involvement in Afghanistan, armaments contracts. Long unwinnable wars are exactly what the military industrial complex needs to optimize profits. What a coincidence that conflict after conflict gives the US armaments industry exactly all it could wish for. One doesn't decide on a 'mowing the lawn' strategy in Afghanistan to win a war but to keep the money flowing in steady predictable pulses. Also notice, just when the conflict in Ukraine starts to heat up, we pull out of Afghanistan and then go all in, in Eastern Europe. At every turn the armaments industry gets it's dream come true falling out of the sky. Do you really think the military industrial complex in the USA isn't endlessly maneuvering for long intractable conflicts? We know how to win and fast, but that would be too cheap and stabilizing. By doing just enough to sustain the conflict, the contracts keep flowing and give big business the predictability they desperately crave.
Brilliant discussion…really informative.
Great conversation and with awesome critical thinking
3 words : "Victor-Davis-Hanson"
Loved that finale pep talk by General McMaster. Ptb 83'
You’re right Peter. This is great stuff. And thanks to you, VDH and HR.
Thank you for this conversation
Can't wait for round 2......
Thanks to Peter for a lively discussion with such notable figures. I deeply believe in the greatness of America. I know the conversation is about the military and winning in Afghanistan. However, when I see the pervasive rot spreading in our society, I do not feel a responsibility to set up girls' schools in Afghanistan. Our children cannot read. We have people living in filth here with crime and immorality exploding. I would rather see my tax dollars help our drought-stricken farmers here. If we don't take care of home first and throw out socialism promotion in America, our country will not exist to help anyone else.
great conversation, thank you hoover institute