Final Thoughts on Elijah Craig C923 Consistency Problems
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 лип 2024
- Recorded LIVE. Here is the previous video addressing this topic: • ELIJAH CRAIG C923 - RU...
GLASSES I USE:
*Stolzle Lausitz 6.5oz Whisky Nosing Glass (primary drinker, short stem)
Bennuaine Whisky & Spirits Glass (fancy & expensive, long stem)
Luigi Bormioli 5.75oz Vinoteque Snifter (cost-effective long stem option)
Aged & Ore Neat Glass (for casual drinking, stemless)
*denotes used in this video
Want to support the channel and get access to exclusive behind-the-scenes content? Join the Drums & Drams community on Patreon!
PATREON: / drumsanddrams
I welcome healthy debate and fully appreciate how subjective whisk(e)y review videos are, but please be respectful about any disagreements or strong feelings you might have. I'll delete any rude comments in order to keep this environment friendly. Thanks for watching, and cheers!
If you enjoy my content, please consider giving my videos a "like" and subscribe to show support. You can find Drums & Drams on Instagram and Facebook, and if you're interested in seeing some of my work as a percussion soloist, you can follow the links below for more information. Cheers, and I hope to see you soon!
Music: www.epidemicsound.com
Drop me a line: drumsanddrams@gmail.com
Drums & Drams on IG: / drumsanddrams
Cameron Leach Links:
Facebook: / cleachmusic
Instagram: / cleachmusic
UA-cam: / cameronleach - Розваги
Thank you for bringing this up, and telling us the differences you experienced between the two. This is what it’s all about for us enthusiasts, discussing whiskey. That’s all this is, so thank you.
Enthusiasts like us need to bring up inconsistencies we taste because they may (or may not) lead to a new fact, and these are the type of things you know damn well the distillers will not openly discuss, assuming they even know about it at all. So for that I thank you as well.
I sincerely appreciate you saying this! Cheers and Happy New Year 🥃
I appreciate you being willing to learn new information, and following up/clarifying on previous discussions. It shows maturity and desire to understand what’s actually going on, rather that being fixated on one’s own opinion. Cheers! You got a new fan
I sincerely appreciate you saying that! Cheers and thanks for checking out the channel! 🥃
You like what you like, and you're learning and sharing as you go. It's interesting to try and decipher the "why", but certainly no need to apologize for what is (to you, and many others) a clear difference between bottles of the "same batch". It really shouldn't be surprising to any of us that there is some flavor drift in these larger batch releases. What would we need single barrel releases for...?
Congrats on the bump either way - you've been at this a while and run a good channel.
My husband got a bottle of C923 on a recent US trip for business and we have the bottle you preferred! We love it! It’s a lot more D in Canada but well worth it. For single malt scotch lovers we adore the C923 in the batch you really loved in the comparison. Batch inconsistency is always a concern at least for me. Yup drama sells! lol! I’m a psychologist - trust me! Drama sells! I’m new to your channel and love it! I just forwarded my husband your C923 videos! Cheers!!
I just appreciate the conversation around this- it’s great information and makes us think a little bit more about how we taste. Good conversation!
I knew fb/secondary would take it well! 😂 congrats on the bump bro!
love this video! wish I was here the for live version... I think this is super interesting...
Thanks to your video I have a bottle of each so regardless I’m taking the W. And just glad to have a backup
Very interesting doing a blind taste using two samples from the same bottle. Looking forward to doing this with my son-in-laws an friends. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for bringing this up. I got some back ups but for sure i don’t get any fruit on my A223 bottle. It’s messed up for both to taste totally different and be labeled C923.
Meh, not that I need another whiskeytuber to follow but I appreciate and respect how well spoken and intelligent you seem to be. And I mean that respectfully. Plus I love whiskey and cigars more than the average Joe so im always open to a fresh voice and perspective in the whiskey world. Cheers and Happy 2024 peeps!
Haha I totally get it! Too many folks to keep up with, but I appreciate your kind words and I’m glad you’re along for the ride. Cheers!!
My a22330144 batch has the same flavor profiles as your a23. It's just phenomenal.
Great video, I appreciate your insightful approach. The inconsistency comes from the fact that We can’t know when the various “totes” were dumped, nor what barrels/rickhouse/floors they come from. Unless we know that, we can pinpoint value to codes. Nevertheless, informative video!
Not sure what I had in my first two bottles but loved them. Had two more that were just okay. Checked my just okay bottle. It’s an A22. I have two back ups. Another A22 and an A23. May be getting rid of my A22. Thanks for all the info and details.
I have both batches and i love the A22. I cant wait to pop the A23!
The code I have on my C923 starts with A2233..... and it tastes wonderful to me. I wonder if the bad subbatches are exclusively those that start with A2223....
Recently got two bottles of A221 here in PA. I personally think it’s good, but will be on the lookout for other codes for comparison.
Same here. I was just excited to have found a bottle of C923 a couple weeks ago, and that night I find all the controversy and see that I have a bottle of A221. After getting about 1/3 of the way through the bottle, I consider it one of the better bourbons in my cabinet. But… now I’m looking for an A23X bottling to compare blind.
C923- bottled Aug 21- freaking delicious, only better ECBP is a store pick bottled April 12th
This could explain why I thought my bottle of C923 was fabulous and two of my friends thought it was just ok. They bought bottles in two different states.
What laser code did you have ?
@@anthonyvella2787 no idea, that bottle is long gone.
It was Good !!! Lol
I did a blind of A222 and A230 with my wife, my local liquor store owner, and my brother in law. 3 of us preferred A230 and the liquor store owner preferred A222. Everyone agreed there was a distinct difference between the two. It’s almost like the 8 days it sat in the Vat exposed to air waiting to be bottled softened the edges a bit. It almost seems like they added water to it in order to bring the flavors out, but they deny doing that so the only thing I can think of is more time in contact with air. I have since bought 4 bottle of A234 that I found locally. I haven’t tried that one yet.
Great back to back videos on this! Like you stated this makes it interesting for the Bourbon nerds! I have A22230936 and have the same experience as you on my bottle. I’d love to find another bottle just to see because like you I thought I was crazy! This would be a great topic for past and future batches!
I have A221's from South Carolina and they're very good
223 on my first bottle. It's great. I've had samples from other people that were very underwhelming but not sure what their bottle #s were
A234 here. Super tasty. Good stuff Cam 👊
I just tried a fresh opened A2223226 and then tried a previously opened A23332331, and went in reverse order. The A23332 was much less sharp/astringent, much more refined than the A2223. There may be a neck pour/ age factor that worked against the A2223, but the difference is large.
Let the fresh one sit 2-4 weeks it will open up
A221 for mine. I have it #2 for the year for me behind a 6 year Willett purple top. If it truly gets better, Wow.
I myself have A221, A222, and A223. Only the A222 I’ve popped. I guess I’ll find out eventually
Looks like I've only had A221, but just found one of my backups is A233. So maybe it gets even better. Cool. Or whatever. You guys should worry more about the mountain dew bottling codes we are mixing it with. Y'all are mixing them with Mountain Dew, right?
WTH. How come this is the first I’m hearing about this? If it’s such a large difference this is huge and I hope HH is aware of this...
Which website did you buy your C923 from that came today?
My guess is that HH’s tanks are not large enough to run a full batch of ECBP releases or even close to it. Maybe the A22 code was from barrels that sat in a slightly (or significantly) different spot in the rickhouses(s) and the later A23 run was from barrels higher up?!?
I am in love with this bottle and have only an A22 bottle open. I enjoy it so much that I have chased and bought as much of C923 as I can. About 1/3 of them are A23 coded - if they are actually better, I will be floored and extremely happy.
You need to take it to the next level with a proof hydrometer and see if there is any ABV difference between bottles
Do distillers dump and bottle for A123 happen in August of 2022?
Now I need to open the A223 and compare with my already opened A233, that was my backup, Thanks for the info update, very well done sir, good content
Did you do it?
M10 had the same issue this year. The only difference is we have actual barrel#s from M10 on every bottle to prove our point and theory
You may not want to wade into the drama pool but for me you will stand out and get a lot of views if you approached these topics that most avoid. I would love to see. Drama and Drams weekly episode. There are plenty of topics that the "whiskey influencers" avoid like the plague. Like sourcing such as 13th colony and their epic rise in popularity for their double oak...which looks to be sourced and it seems they are trying to bury that. Anyways good luck with the success of your channel but the Whiskey community desperately needs more transparency and less shills.
Ok so I got home and tried finding the laser coding and couldn’t locate it. Can anyone tell me where the code is usually located?
I wonder if the bourbon gets progressively better as the dates get later? Or, is there a specific date/line where the bourbon suddenly changes?
Great content. There are a few more pieces we need to solve this puzzle but I think you’re on to something. I’d assume this is a large production/release w/40k bottles. That means they would need a tank to hold about 8k gallons of liquid which would translate to a swimming pool that is 18’ long and 52” deep. Seems rather large so maybe they add more barrels to the tank as they bottle. Something like an infinity blend and that’s where the batch variation comes from.
A friend of mine took a tour of HH and they were told they have tanks up to 25k gallons
Well okay then. Let’s send the different code numbers to a lab for analysis.
@@gregyan1012 😂
One thing I wonder about those large tanks is whether or not there could be differences throughout bottling as the batch “marries” together. I have no clue how that works and if there could be inconsistencies on that basis or not. Time to make another video and cause utter chaos 😂
@@DrumsAndDrams yeah a holding tank doesn’t typically have any active mixing, the blend could be very different from first to last bottling. We need that proof meter lol
I have an A221 bottle. I need to revisit it but i wasn't impressed. Ill send you a sample if you want another for comparison.
Russell's 13 has the same inconsistencies. Absolutely a single batch can have inconsistencies. Its just now people are starting to notice.
Totally agree!
I had my first bottle and thought it was phenomenal. Then opened my second bottle and was underwhelmed. I thought it was just me until this video. My second bottle is A22. It is not anything near the same complexity as the A23. A23 much darker, didn’t drink as proofy, just absolutely much much better. Thanks for clearing it up for me personally!
If everybody with a platform approached issues with this level of honesty, truth, and pragmatism, our country would be in a much better place than it is right now.
The whiskey evolved over being opened more than any other bottle ive ever owned i wonder how much of this is coming into play. We bought ours from washington state and everyone of 18 bottles were own away.
My bottle of year regardless
I have 5 bottles of C923 all purchased at NC ABC stores and none of them start with "A". Mine all start with either 1722 or 1723.... not sure what to make of that?
I have no idea on this one, and you’re not the first to say this. I think I need to send an email to Heaven Hill and see what’s up.
I also have a few 17 22 bottles, in addition to A22 and A23
Mine all have 2 laser codes. 17 23 174 and 17 23 176. Those correlate to A222 and A223 respectively. My A123 is 17 22 314 which also has an A354 laser. So who knows! At some point I think it’s probably more random than anything. Although the 174, 176, and 314 (A123) could actually be the bottling days in the year. But 174 would be June.
Well if nothing else, all of you hoarders are demonstrating why others are having a hard time finding any of this
You have 5 bottle?!?!?!?! I can’t find a single one anywhere
What's up with that WT Diamond? Review coming?
Just picked up randomly as a celebratory bottle. Thought I might just taste it in passing on a livestream or something, but if there would be interest in a review I’m happy to do it!
Checked my bottle...I have A223
I have 2 bottles of A23…code. Drinks very hot to me. I prefer EC BP A123 to C923. 🥃
We had a group that blinded all three and no one picked the "C" batch. Most picked "A" but A & B were very close.
You should blind compare 2023 michters 10. A codes vs several others. I did my own comparison and compared 3 different codes. IMO, there was a difference. (Not saying all A codes are good, just that there can be sizeable single barrel variation)
Those are different, they're single barrels, variation is expected.
@@DPTX The context around my comment is that this is another situation where people are hyping up the A codes specifically, saying they're far better than the codes from other months later in the year. A comparison video on this subject would get a lot of views.
The only thing this has caused me to think about is how much I've liked previous releases that were crapped on at the time by people who reviewed those bottles. Case in point, I really enjoyed B522, it was a standout for me so much that I purchased 6 or 7 bottles and recently found a few more in a liquor store in another state and grabbed some of those. Now I wonder, "was my B522 maybe considerably better than what was reviewed online? Did I get lucky and get the good stuff? Or is my palate that different than a lot of people?" I realize taste is subjective and largely has to do with how trained a persons palate is, but it just makes me wonder about other instances where reviewers have had issues with batched product that didn't translate to me (Early Times BiB plastic vs metal cap when we've heard that the metal cap stuff is still the old distillate, A123 batches tasting like sharpie marker, dramatically different experiences with Discovery 10 based 5 separate bottles I tasted). Is batch consistency in "batched" or blended product that consistent? Are our palates just better at catching it because we're tasting more of it, especially in these limited release products?
Mine is A223
I have an a234
I got yelled at for even MENTIONING in a FB group that there COULD be a bottle taste difference between potentially different "in run" batches. So, yeah, that was fun... And in the words of Reacher (Lee Child)... Details matter!
I’ve got an A221 and an A233
Did you try to verify the validity of the pinned comment on your video? The Author of that comment took some redditor's theory and ran with it. Now you've taken the commentor's theory and ran with it. Seems we have an inception of speculation.
I read in a Facebook group someone emailed HH directly and they said the two lasercodes were a result of one day difference in bottlings.
Was anything said in this video based on information found outside of UA-cam/Reddit/Facebook comments?
I haven’t contacted HH directly - I plan to do that. I checked all of my existing ECBP bottles (over 20), and all of the laser codes align with the Xdddyhhmm formula that Nathan A posted. Not a single exception.
The 1 day difference cited from HH I believe came from a TikTok video which references a friend that the guy knows at HH, and I believe that information to be incorrect. Happy to be wrong about that, but it’s not convincing given the multitude of evidence I have from my own ECBP bottlings. I believe many folks now posting that info in FB groups all got it from the same TikTok vid.
Again I want to restate that I’m happy to be wrong. I ran with Nathan A’s comment because it checks out with all of my other bottles.
Sucks for ne i didnt crack mine but i got and a222.
Mine is A2223
Still want to know why 3 of the bottles I got have no laser codes
It seems that there are three anomalies unaccounted for:
1. No laser code at all
2. Laser codes that have no letter to start with, instead starting with something like "17" or others
3. Bottles with laser codes like A358, or A11 to start.. which do not in any way coincide with what we would expect to be a C923 batch bottling date.
I'm not sure what to make of these, and I'm asking folks to send me more info for each occurrence so that I can ask Heaven Hill in a comprehensive email.
@@DrumsAndDrams I couldn’t find the laser code on mine either. Turns out it was on the front at the bottom instead of the back. And there is no “A” in the code. It just starts 23
@@DrumsAndDrams I think for number 2, people are referring to engraved lettering rather than a laser code. one or two of the bottles I'm referring to have that as well, but it's clearly different than the bottle I have with a laser code and doesn't seem like the same type of thing. I wish I could send pictures but yea I don't think those cases are actually laser codes
Might seem like a dumb question but did you check the bottom of the bottle by chance? I had one that the code was on the bottom instead of the back.
@@nfc3po I've checked everywhere besides under labels.
I have A2213224 and A2231141.
I have A234
Mine as well
Do you think it would be worth paying 400-500 for a pirate bottle ?
No chance
In my opinion no. I would rather have multiple A120, C919 or C923.
Yes if batch 11 or 12. Those 2 batches are as good as King of Kentucky, GTS or similarly priced ($1000+) high age cask strength bottles.
It's definitely a tough choice these days, do you buy stocks, crypto, gold or vintage Elijah Craig.
RR13 first release had similar issues
NOT ALL GREAT
The A223 code on c923 bottle I got didn’t seem to live up to the hype. I enjoy my ECBP batch a123 a lot more.
I have a a221, a223 x2
Seeing a few places that there could've been a 4th batch release planned for 2023 but then reverted back and released both as C923
...the plot thickens!
They bottled the bottom of the rick house first and the higher ricks were better
That's a theory but how in the world did they have so much of the same proof and age? I think what should come of it is a better explanation around how they create these massive batches and if it's even possible to label it all as the same product when it's more akin to a single barrel rather than a batch.
If anything, you have given other channels content.
I have a bottle of A221 in my hand
Don't you believe the more probable conclusion based on your sample size and these scattered comments....is that you had a bad bottle? That happens to almost every release?
But what exactly does “bad bottle” mean, especially when there seem to be so many cases?
@DrumsAndDrams well for example wild turkey 101 taste different with almost every bottle I purchase. And you know how big those batches got to be. This hasnt been spoke about till recently. Did all whiskey tubers have 23s and that's why 90 percent of them put this batch in their top 10?
@@maxmedina853 your WT101 example would suggest batch differences, which is totally normal in a core product like that since they truly are comprised of different barrels for every batch. That doesn’t mean there’s a bad bottle necessarily - again, I don’t exactly know what “bad bottle” would mean in this case. As for what others have, I don’t know. While I do believe there are consistency issues, there are also palate differences with preferences, so some may have gotten what I would consider a “lesser” bottling, but may enjoy it enough for their top 10. Who knows!
i just wish these were cheaper in our country, I live in asia and the only one selling this for $100
I'm just frustrated I'm caught chasing laser codes in addition to batches now in 2024. If we're just discovering this now, it's pretty damn likely there was batch variance for ECBP in the past. 😔
Unfortunately there has also been quite a lot of anecdotal evidence of this in past years, but I’m not sure it ever took off as much as this C923 issue did. I suspect that if it really is a widespread issue, that it likely has been to some degree for awhile, but obviously there’s no way of knowing for certain. Interesting nonetheless!
I figured that was probably the case but the older batches weren't as large nor as hyped, so very few people would have even noticed.
Don’t we need fresh cracks to compare. There is such a thing as air time.
Are either of them worth drinking... I think yes... so what's the drama... drink your whiskey and be happy-go-lucky
Drank an A23 today. Seemed smoother, drank lower and tasted better than the two A22’s I’ve tried. Just a fact. There may be no difference in the bottling numbers but sure seemed different to me.
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A22 AND A23 IS 11 DAYS. WTF! AS A RESULT, IN THE BOURBON BUSINESS FIRST IS ALWAYS MORE VALUABLE; Case in point, is Russel's Reserve 13 batch 1 vs batch 2. NOW M FER'S ARE TRYING TO KNOCK ON THE VERY FIRST BATCH. THUS, ELEVATING THE SUBSEQUENT BOTTLES. IT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Are you saying this entire thing is based around manipulation of secondary values?
@@DrumsAndDrams Yes! To this end, it is all about splitting a hair, which translates to getting the most elevated return on initial investment. Hence, the stock market.
Everyone has the right to explore their whiskey however they choose. We’re all whiskey nerds here so why not nerd out all the way down to the laser code? A234 here 🙌
221 here
This taste variation can absolutely happen. Unless all of the C923 single barrels were blended together, there certainly can be a difference in taste. Hopefully a slight difference, but who knows.
ECBP are not single barrels
I have C923 A199.
Really??
Joking
Interesting that “Jason’s”comments are deleted- I hope you received an apology Cam, it was not constructive and appeared to be nothing but trolling.
I think I may have hidden him. I’m pretty tired of reading some of the hurtful crap people are posting. Obviously it comes with the territory but sometimes “out of sight, out of mind” is nice too 😂
The A24 laser codes are horrifically good.
I don’t know if this is trolling or not but either way I love it
As of right now I prefer the C922 A23 over the C923 A22 bottling I have.
Oh no...mines A221! Noooooooo lol
It's similar to Mich10 A barrels being different than E or F. I have all 3 and yes there is a marked difference. I also have 3 bottles of ECBP C923. 2 have A234 laser codes. One has absolutely no laser code whatsoever. Go figure.
If there's no laser code that means someone just put some old crow in the bottle and sold it to you for a nice mark up 😁
@@BigBadJerryRogers nope it's the real deal. It's known to happen sometimes. Or it could be below the label.
What mich10 is supposed to be the better one?
@@mtbflorida8520reported that the A release of the M10 were received as better.
@@mtbflorida8520 A barrel by far!!
A2223xxxx it beat my A123 in a blind but It wasn’t whiskey of the year worthy for me.
My A23 bottle has A358XXXXX on the back. According to that comment, this was made on Christmas Eve, yet I bought it back in November.
Wow. Not sure what to say to that. Would love to see a photo if possible. I’ve checked all of my ECBP bottlings and they all “check out” with the bottle code info given by Nathan A according to their batch release dates etc..
How is it an A23 bottle if it is A35? What are you talking about?
@@daven8905 I read this quickly earlier in passing. Now I think this is an A123 batch with A358xxxxx which checks out. @dontyler_, is this A123 you’re referencing, and what’s the remainder of the laser code?
Yeah, if you’re talking about A123, then according to the supposed system, it was bottled on the 358th day of 2022. That makes sense. When you say you bought it in November, you meant November of 2023?
@@daven8905 It doesn’t make sense for my A123 bottle. It has an A354 code but I bought it 1/2/2023 so there’s no way it was bottled, shipped to OR (OLCC) then distributed to the local liquor store in 10 days. My A123 bottle also has a 17 22 314 code which makes more sense. My C923 bottles have a 17 23 174 and 17 23 176 code in addition to the A222 and A223 codes.
Heaven Hill thinks we are incapable of noticing. The bourbon consumer is smarter than HH thinks.
This exactly. We have to educate ourselves about their products because they sure as hell won’t.
I think this is more part of their process and there wasn't enough hype for people to notice the differences so much before. If it's brought to their attention, they will likely change their blending process.
Dude, you have generated an audience and following (which is good for), you stated an opinion or theory, so either stand by it or retract, and move on.
This video was meant to stand by it, but to be even more accurate in how I discussed it so that there could be less misinterpretations about what I said. If I didn't achieve that, then I failed with my goals of this video, and I apologize.
When did he not stand by his findings?
@@DrumsAndDramsplease don’t apologize for exploring and shedding light on the process and which barrels may be in each batch. Unfortunately all of mine are A222 from VA ABC. Still great 13.5 year juice!
Actually watch the video maybe?
I got the A223 is that supposed to be the better one? Or is the A222
Interesting topic. I’ve actually got two bottles with the same exact code A22330134. It’s the only C923 I’ve been able to source. I’ve found it to be pretty tasty myself.
so this video is you covering for yourself after you got more info and realized you were wrong and it's not an "A22" and "A23" batch.
I never said there were. I made it explicitly clear that it was a prevailing theory/rumor, and that I myself have zero idea if that’s the case and also no information as to how the bottling process works at Heaven Hill. Please don’t misconstrue the original video. This second video was in part to double down on that very fact, but to express it even more clearly because of folks mischaracterizing what I said, and also to point out the additional info that we learned from Nathan A’s pinned comment, which could shed some light on the bottling process but not necessarily pinpoint why there might be discrepancies.