Cleopatra was Black? New Netflix Documentary Controversy
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Cleopatra was the last ruler of ancient egypt and a figure many try to lay some kind of claim to. This is the latest example
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Most of my problem with this show would go away if it wasn't labeled and advertised as a "documentary."
I believe that is perhaps one of the most egregious details yes
Even is it was still a documentary, is they just said we know she wasn't black or we just really liked this actress or whatever that would be better
Just call it a "Parody", immediately establishes it for what it is and will also make the revisionists seethe about not being taken seriously.
Yep! They would have defused many issues that reasonable have with it.
If I am not mistaken, something being a documentary doesn’t necessarily mean it is true. I think History Channel had a documentary about dragons (showing what one would look like if they were real). As I recall, after the documentary ended, they (the people behind it) talked about it and I do think that they said that a documentary doesn’t necessarily need to be non-fiction.
“I don’t care what they tell you in school, Cleopatra was black”
Imagine hearing that while watching a Historical EDUCATIONAL DOCUMENTARY. Wtf Netflix ?
That line sounded like how conspiracy theorists often talk.
My grandmother was a great source of racism too.
But I grew up and learned to think for myself 😁
Netflix labeled "Ancient Apocalypse" as documentary as well.
I may not know history of cleopatra but I’m pretty sure she’s not black.
That poor woman will now be a meme for the next ten years with that laughable justification. "My grandma said "x" is true, so that is now better than scientific proof!" No evidence the loch ness monster is real? My grandma told it is was! My grandma told me no matter what you hear in school, evolution is bunk! God created everything!!"
The greatest irony of it all is the whole thing of people hearing the word "Africa" and immediately thinking "clearly must be Black" is as offensive to North Africans (people from Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia, Marroco, Egypt and Sudan) as the people that say "If its in asia than it must be chinese" is to for ex cambodians, vietnamese, koreans, japanese etc etc etc.
This whole Idea of Africa=black is like saying the Chinese and Indians are the same race because they share a border and they are both Asians
Not only Chinese, Korean or Japanese, but Iranian or Syrian too
So do ALL the people from Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia, Marroco, Egypt and Sudan identify as white? Because whiteness didn't become a thing before America.
Well the modern North African is from Asia and came over during Islam
As someone from algeria, I find the fact they think Africa is only black insulting. It is the same as saying all asians look chinese.
There are lots of depictions of Cleopatra from the time she lived.
Specially on coins, but also statues and other artwork.
And they clearly show a woman that looked very different from being black.
Some Roman artwork, that many experts think there is a great chance of being of her, even depicts her as having light reddish brown curled hair.
And knowing the Romans back at that time, they would for sure use her blackness or being some sort of bastard in their view against her.
They were extremely quick to use anything like that against someone if that was the case.
There is no way the Romans would not write about that if that was the case and they for sure wrote a lot that was very negative in their mind about her after her death.
And also when you consider how extremely obsessed her family was about keeping the bloodline and not get it mixed with inferior people and inferior races in their mind, it is extremely unlikely that they would accept having a person with black African blood as the ruler.
They might have produced some children during the generations with black concubines, but these children would never been accepted to have any power.
All of this.
The most insulting part of the show is them suggesting she was cremated. As an Egyptian ruler it was her duty to follow the custom of mummification, not doing so is damning her to to roam the earth without any chance of entering the afterlife. It was a punishment, even the utterly poor were mummified.
Hey everyone. Please remember this is not a politics channel. Please do not resort to name calling, actually being racist, or anything of the sort. We can make fun of awful history without being awful ourselves
hi
Cleopatra was Egyptian no? Meaning she's African?
Like the skin color probably wouldn't be brown, but it definitely wouldn't be white
Oh yeah she'd definitely be deformed asf
@@beefynfn She looked like a mix of a contemporary Egyptian and a contemporary Greek. The haven't changed all that much, looks wise.
@@beefynfn I always believed she was of mixed race not purely one or the other. They lost me when they portrayed her as a warrior I'm like no not really.
@TheKeeper look into the fall of the ramses pharoahs and how the macedonian tholemy dynasty took over. She was at most 1/4 Egyptian and Egyptian people arent even that dark skinned let alone someone that is 1/4 Egyptian and 3/4 macedonian
As a black dude I can tell you this has been going on for a WHILE. We as a race have no identity, or rather, we’re not educated enough to know our identity or our history, so to see this is no big surprise, and it’s so sad because there are great stories of real black/ African heroes but no one wants to tell those stories.
They are re-writing history as cultural marxism requires
Exactly. So many other stories of African heroes. Shaka Zulu comes to mind but so many others.
I would love to cover so many of the stories that we do not hear about. If there’s any cool suggestions you or anyone has let me know.
You know what I’d like to see, I’d love to see a comedy movie about the Mali king Mansa Musa starring Eddie Murphy who was so rich that he crashed economies in his travels just giving out gold to everyone.
There are so many good stories for so many genres in African history and folklore and Hollywood is just informing them.
@@historyofeverythingpodcastyaskue, the black samurai is a good start!
8:31 Saying Cleopatra is black is like saying that Jada Pinkett Smith is a faithful loving wife
You go to every video about this garbage show to drop this line? Because if you are, then carry on! 👍
Oh, you mean Will's bald husband?
You could use her big brain as a battering ram
@@abdullahirfan9991 Big ego, not brain.
@@DirtyTurtle67 I was being sarcastic :
Something minor that kinda annoys me about the trailer, is the fact that they used duduk for the music. An Armenian instrument (Turkey has sth similar as well), they could've used an Egyptian instrument like Ney...
The director of this "documentary" has stated in interviews that choosing a black woman to play Cleopatra was "a political act." Which, if that's what you wanna do, fine; but don't dress up your documentary as facts. This was an expressly-stated politically-motivated decision. And it's really sad that we've gotten to this point as a society.
Source: Tina Gharavi, the director of the documentary, wrote an article for variety. So no more weirdos come in calling me a liar, here's the full quote:
"Doing the research, I realized what a political act it would be to see Cleopatra portrayed by a Black actress. For me, the idea that people had gotten it so incredibly wrong before - historically, from Theda Bara to Monica Bellucci, and recently, with Angelina Jolie and Gal Gadot in the running to play her - meant we had to get it even more right," she wrote. "The hunt was on to find the right performer to bring Cleopatra into the 21st century."
Have you seen how controlling and narcissistic she is? Pretty sure Will Smith didn't get up and slap Chris rock on his own accord. If you watch he laughs at first, I think he thought it was going to be fine. Than Jada gives him a death stare and he gets up. She's not a good person. She says crazy racist shit in her podcast with the caveat "no reverse racism" - you are right lady. It's just racism. You don't need the word reverse.
Don't even call it a documentary
@Ect_Levi gotta make it clear because people in teh west have a weird understanding of "not white" complexions and assume anything darker than an Irishman who hasn't seen the sun in over a year is somehow black
She's a loon, simple as.
Lol, she wanted to make Egypt great again.
How ironic.
It’s honestly sad that Jada even acknowledges that there are actual black queens, but dismisses them as being too far out of reach when the information is there, albeit limited…
Yes, she pulled all this crap to uplift her ego after she was unmasked for being a trashy human. She is clearly an oportunistic person rather than a strong woman. Such a joke
Yeah I wonder why they aren't as well known!
@@Kriegter Maybe if the blacks would have had a writing system before the arabs or the europeans arrived. But they didn't and this is why ancient history of blacks and lots more is not recorded anywhere.
With those arguments she might just as well made a documentary about Catherine the Great of Russia as a black woman.
@@Kriegter it's kind of circular. They aren't as well known because Hollywood hasn't bothered to make movies about them. If Jada actually wanted to challenge the status quo she could have done something about that.
I can verify that every black kid in my family was told things like this growing up, because it was intended to be used to say, "This is why we have it so tough now, because we used to be above them". Anyone that has spent any time in the Fertile Crescent would know that the chances of her being black are close to nil.
Great point.
Honestly, that's just sad and does more damage.
No one is ever above anyone. History favors those in power, and there are plenty of civilizations across the world from all forms of heritage that conquered, killed, and oppressed others.
But telling your children "We used to be superior to these people" just creates fragile egos and jerks. Cause those children are gonna grow up with the mindset that they're supposed to be better than a particular group of people and will just be petty pricks who can't handle failure, cause they have this notion they are the greatest thing in society, and that they can't possibly be allowed to fail or fall under anyone of another background, cause "I am superior to all these animals"
Thats just toxic
Close to nile
Wasn't part of the strife in Egypt at the time the disconnect between the Greek rulers and their Egyptian subjects? So it would be a bit odd if the ruler wasn't a different 'race' .
Also I still think of Egypt as Mediterranean and not Africa. Have they done a (movie) documentary about Queen Amanirenas?
The head of the museum in Egypt has filed complaint to have Netflix stop this because of its inaccuracy.
You know your "Documentary" is inaccurate when you get complaints from history boffins that made their job out of knowing history. Unless offcourse it's the English Natural History Museum and you demand your nations treasures back.
Keep trying this is the beginning it will be uncomfortable the Arabs should know the truth
@@wren1718 the truth is that Cleopatra was Greek. No matter what you think, she isn't black
@@edgar7456 are you ok??
@@wren1718 are you?
Jada's definition of History is right up there with her definition of marriage.
Oh, you mean $h!t?
And her definition of being a strong woman, which is to make your husband slap a short guy for making a joke.
@@13tuyuti she did not make her husband do anything.stip telling.lies on the woman.
@@amenajackson8133 if she stops telling lies about Cleopatra I'll stop telling lies about her.
@@amenajackson8133 Oh yes she did! 💯 she's a manipulative and controlling narcissist... Will was actually laughing at the slap-head joke, that is until baldy turned to him and gave him the death stare and he knew he had to act or he'd be the one get slapped around the house! either mentally or physically.
The history as i understand it :
Cleopatra was suffering from heavy inbreeding depression , ruling a state with a failing economy and squaring up against a warrior nation that had conquered a good chunk of the known world deleting nations like carthage in the process ...
How i would write the story for a fiction :
Cleopatra was a tragic heroine that was doomed from the beginning and suffering health problems from the imbreeding but fought hard and with her wits and her means while showing herself as strong to keep egypt free , failing tragically in the end and looking death incarnated in the shape of a cobra in the eyes as it lunged at her .
How netflix wrote it :
Yeah cleopatra was a girlboss who had all the cards in her hands but got cheated from there by mark antony ...
It's also telling netflix had to show her sword fighting , you actually need to be somewhat clever to write an eloquent person ,
What do you need to show two stunt actors hitting dull swords against each other ? Nothing really ...
They really have hard times showing pepole with weak bodies but strong minds ...
Netflix Cleopatra: There is no Rome without Egypt
Octavian and Agrippa: There is no Egypt
Meanwhile in the Eastern Roman empire, where there is neither Rome nor Egypt at one point 💀
@@georgegkoumas5026 technically East Rome still existed but yeah... Caliphates do be tossing sand
@@RenMagnum4057 true but I meant no Rome or Egypt inside the empire
As someone of Greek descent, this is just insulting. That said, the worst part of this isn't even the skin tone, it's going to be the lies. She will be the hero in every moment, because modern writers think heroes have no flaws. Cleopatra had many admirable qualities, her stubbornness and intelligence, but she was also headstrong and slept around for power, not exactly a role model. Teach the facts and let people make up their own minds. This is revisionist history at its worst.
I give you my full and entire support. SCREW REVISIONIST HISTORY.
Gee it’s almost like history is complicated and completely ignoring the facts or worse changing the facts is a bad idea I hate people especially when the person, Cleopatra in this case, is FAR more interesting when you show her flaws just as much as her successes
@@murderofcrows5089 As a Berber of actual Egyptian descent I take much umbrige.
These pretenders are gross.
@@badlaamaurukehu agreed it sucks that people nowadays don’t understand that you can’t just place our morals or beliefs onto people of the past and god forbid either change facts or just make it up just to fit a catchy headline or documentary
@@murderofcrows5089 I think it's more likely that they just don't care. It's not done exactly ignorantly, maybe it's done so in a way that has no awareness of integrity, but the intent isn't to make a good faith argument, it's just to use whatever tools one has at one's disposal for thier ideological ends, and that includes deception.
And here we have an example where it's straight up admitted to being entirely intentional.
The real problem I have with this is, it feels like the black community is ignoring actual Black/African stories, about actual Black individuals. They've decided it's better to insert themselves into non-black stories that resonate better with non-black audiences. Not only does it seem disrespectful to black culture, but it could be said that this is overt cultural appropriation. That being said, Hollywood has done more than it's fair share of white-washing roles over the years, and I find that equally distasteful. If they're going to do historical pieces they should at least make an effort to find someone who is as close the the real thing as possible, to fill the role.
it's also extremely problematic to essentially erase what was ancient European colonization by saying it didn't happen, she was black anyway, yassss proud black queen!!!! Talk about missing the mark...
Honestly, while those old Hollywood movie casts white actors for non white character, they still play like they're the original race (Greek people still greek, Arab still arab) unlike the trend now who swap the races entirely
Well aside from the Ptolemaic rulers the Egyptians of dynastic times from the Old Kingdom to the New Kingdom-from Narmer to end of the Ramessaide dynasty-Egypt's population was to use modern vernacular, "black".
I have no problem seeing the African history in Egypt, because Egyptian history is African history.
Ahmose the son of Ebana is one of my favorites, he helped drive out the pesky Hyksos from the Levant during the reign of Kamose who is another favorite pharaoh of mine besides Thutmose III the Napoleon of Egypt.
Modern Egyptians can't claim a shred of ancient Egyptian history because their ancestors only arrived in Egypt 1400 years ago, and the Copts are mostly descendants of Hellenized Syrians and Byzantine Greeks.
Get it right please.
Worse part is even if they do try to make movies on African characters they fuck it up.
The Women King anyone?
Lol you should check out what afrocentrists say. They claim every historically popular group/figure to be black
Haile Selassie, Sundiata, Mansa Musa, Shaka Zulu... So many powerful, actually African characters that are missing depictions in mainstream cinema that I would love to see. Representing Cleopatra as someone she probably wasn't, is just divisive for no other reason than being divisive.
There is an excellent BBC series on Shaka done back in 1986, there are a few UA-cam videos of the series.
When people think of Cleopatra's familial lineage, they should start hearing dueling lyres.
I wanna see a movie about the African king who was so stupidly rich that as he traveled across the continent and gave out so much gold that he crashed economy after economy. Make it a comedy with Eddie Murphy. I’d watch that.
You know what? I would love that. That would be so much fun
Mansa Musa.
Yes. That would be AMAZING!
Mansa musa but that would end up showing afro-islamic slavery + how regressive the mali empire truly was in order to be historically accurate. They basically had no culture besides the minor islamic influences, had people panning for gold all day... then the king went to Hajj with a bunch of camels and slaves then came back with some spices and trinkets.
If only there really was a historical figure like that... oh _wait_ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansa_Musa
I agree with two things:
1 We need more positive representation of African women in media.
2 Almost all the data we have indicates that Cleopatra wasn't black, and pushing it like this is pretty weird.
I think that instead of explicitly looking for 'positivity' it would be better if things were made a little more true to the story. The King Woman is one such example of how looking for 'positivity' can twist history in some pretty horrifying ways.
@@Dream-ye7ut There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to be "positive" - but you should pick real stories that actually line up with that ideal, instead of changing others to fit it. true stories about positive black female role models are being ignored in favor of this revisionist BS.
@@cxeroannuki2840 Yeah, I was referring more to 'artificial positivity'. There is also the fact of the excessive whitening of characters. What about that woman having an army of slaves? It was another time, another culture and another place, there's no need to be so sensitive about a woman having slaves. Is it strange that a black woman had slaves at that time? Didn't we whites also have white slaves? It reminds me of a little fantasy story where a student says to his teacher: "Master if you are a Half-elf why do you have elf slaves? Why do you treat them like this?" The teacher looks at him very seriously and replies: "So? I also have half of my human blood. Am I expected to give special consideration and pat every human on the shoulder for it?"
@@Dream-ye7ut I watched Woman King and didn't see many historical issues with it. It even mentioned the Dahomey Tribes part in the slave trade. I'm not sure what you mean by excessive whitening of characters?
@@TheCirclekeeper Don't focus on the movie I mentioned in my first comment.
Edit: It would be like looking at a single tree while ignoring the forest.
I have studied ancient Egypt for 50 years now (see my video: "Alex Belfort and the queen of Egypt". Let me present you with some hard facts.
1) There were seven queens of the Ptolemaic dynasty that bore the same "Cleopatra" name. Only the 7th one made a real dent in History.
2) Cleopatra the 7th was not a native Egyptian queen, like for example Nefertiti. She was of Macedonian Greek descent.
3) She was definitely NOT black African. In fact, neither were the ancient Egyptians. There were some black pharaohs during the late dynastic period (Taharqa for example). They came from the kingdom of Kush, way South of Egypt. But the people were Middle Eastern, like the Turks and the Persians.
4) Some people would do better to shut up instead of making foolish statements.
THANK YOU for discussing this controversy without ever flinging the words "woke" or "agenda". "Woke" especially is so overused and misused right now, as it's turned into an insult.
Absolutely. Shows maturity and intelligence to accurately criticize this trailer without using those annoying buzzwords.
Whenever someone uses "Woke" as an insult, they lose credibility and we should stop listening.
Some of the people making anti-woke content about this would be doing the same thing if it were about a real black ruler, they don’t really care about historically accurate representation
Cleopatra can't be a black African figure because she was Greek. Her family, the Ptolemies which ruled Egypt for 300 years originated in the Greek Kingdom of Macedonia (Alexander the Great). Also, it is known that this Greek Dynasty was obsessed with inbreeding, they used to marry their close relatives in order to keep pure the royal bloodline. In simple words, Cleopatra was the last member of a Greek Dynasty who ruled the Egyptian Kingdom. {Greek/Hellenistic period of Asia and North Africa}.
I saw the Ptolemaic family tree a week ago and I nearly died laughing at the absolute deranged inter-family marriages that were just present without much comment.
@@thoughtfulpug1333 One woman married her older brother, had kids by him, divorced him, married her younger brother, had kids by him, divorced him, then faffed off and married a foreign ruler. Her son by one brother and her daughter by the other brother later married.
You'd think her marriage to a foreign ruler got her away from the incestuous mess, but there had been intermarriage between her family and that ruling dynasty, so they were all cousins to one degree or another. However, once you spend enough time reading the Ptolemies' family tree, marriage to cousins who had a partially branching family tree starts to look like a refreshing breath of exogamy.
No, that was the Egyptians, the Ptolemies were just adjusting to the local culture... Which is arguably even worse.
@@K9TheFirst1while being segregationists? Because they had several "Greek only" cities in Egypt.
@@cariopuppetmaster Fine. "local cultural expectations for the ruling class." Happy?
It grinds my gears cuz it's labeled as a documentary and there are people who will watch and absorb the info as all fact.
Just call it a "Parody", immediately establishes it for what it is and will also make the revisionists seethe about not being taken seriously.
@@Terralventhe good idea
In order to classify your film as a documentary you need to fulfill 3 criteria. An obvious host (voice of God counts here too), good imagery and a good story.
Accuracy is not necessary for documentaries. Why not? It's a loophole designed specifically for alternate history documentaries (and for simplicity sake, as we can't know everything).
@@thecommander9137 Yet I am sure such accommodations would not be made if someone made a documentary about Shaka Zulu and cast Rupert Grint in the titular role.
@@Terralventhe sure as anything. but look at criteria 3 again "a good story". this can be translated into a few things, convincing story, educational story and a story that follows a certain idea or philosophy. look to Micheal Moore if you wanna see a master of his craft.
We have both sculpted and painted portraits of Cleopatra, so we do know what she looked like.
If they wanted to focus on an egyptian queen they should have been focusing on Queen Hatshepsut
Meanwhile, no one is telling the story of Queen Amanirenas; a woman who was EVERYTHING that this documentary tries to make Cleopatra into 😢
Exactly!!!!!!
Who? (Genuinely curious, I'm gonna have to look her up!)
@@Rekhan4242 Queen of Kush, fought a winning war against Augustus and kept Rome from expanding down the Nile.
Or queen Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba, an actually black queen who fought the Portuguese
The period between 40 BCE and 50 CE saw three Kushite Queens in succession; Amanirenas, Amanishakheto and Amanitore. Amanirenas was the most prominent Kandake and reigned between 40 and 10 BCE. She is most revered for leading the Kushite armies to victory against the Romans after a five -year war. This would make a superb documentary . During the negotiation between Rome (Emperor Augustus) and the Queen of Kush (Kandake) the Kush presented the Romans with a bundle of golden arrows “This gift is from the Candace (Kandake). If you want peace, this is a token of her warmth and friendship. If you want war, keep the arrows because you are going to need them.” If you want a story of black female empowerment this is the one to present the world. Any one of these three queens who all would have stood more than 2 m in height would make an imposing screen figure. If you delve deep into Cleopatra's history she was a murderous psychopath, specifically of her siblings.
It's kind of sad that Jada Pinkett-Smith had the chance to tell the stories about actual African queens and didn't. Instead of telling the stories about queens that aren't that well known, she went with a big name and created this mess. Really disappointing.
If anyone at Netflix just went to Google And searched "Historical Black Queens", they would have gotten actual black queens
For example, Queen Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba, who fought the Portuguese Colonisers.
Which would have been much better.
" My Grandmother told me. Cleopatra's pronouns were they / them "
On top of all the other garbage, they muffed the costuming. From the moment Alexander the Great rolled into town, Greek culture was the culture of prestige, Greek language was the language of government, and Greekness was the model to aspire to. Any woman of even moderate wealth, never mind the ruler of the country, would have dressed like a Greek. (Which is to say, a lot like the Romans.) Cleopatra might have worn traditional Egyptian court dress for ceremonies, but most of the time she would have worn Greek high fashion.
Plus I'm pretty sure no one ever wore the "Egyptian" garments modeled here. Did they cut them out of paper? WTF?
And what's with the 19th-century Arab warrior fighting with her? Was she under attack by time travelers? I'm going to need to see some sources for that.
I heard Cleopatra wanted to be seen as an Egyptian, specifically to be "one of them". She wanted the public masses to sort of forget she was in fact Greek.
How did she dress, I always thought she would wanted to be seen wearing traditional Egyptian clothes. I could be wrong, but I doubt the "documentary" will explain it
@@michielvoetberg4634 (source: I think Metatron), Cleopatra was the first Greek ruler of Egypt, who even bothered learning Egyptian, and she wore normally Greek hairstyles and Greek clothing in private, but during ceremoniens or in large scale public appearances she would wear Egyptian clothing and hairstyles.
@@michielvoetberg4634 Cleopatra lived in one of the largest cities in the world where the masses were Greek.
Only for some ceremonies would she have worn Egyptian clothes. For other ceremonies Greek clothes were more appropriate.
And yeah, that Arab looking warrior was a whole new level of annoying.
If you do some quick research you’ll find that Jada and her daughter are very racist and Islamophobic. Willow smith wrote a book calling Muslims violent savages
There are some really interesting black and female rulers that great documentaries could actually be made for! Queen regent Amanitore of Meroë, or Queen Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba, to name a couple. We could represent black people while actually learning about real black history.
I was thinking the same thing after seeing that point about wanting more representation. Would love to see Steven do some videos on some of the poeple you've listed there!
I agree but this too much to those intersectional feminist/afrocentric like Jada Pinket Smith. They want to well known historical characters to be black. Example they claim Edward The Black Prince was black and Philippa of Hainault was black etc 🙄🙄.
Do you think they care? they are lazy.
They will never do that
They'll just take the famous one's, forget the really forgotten strong queens
The pictures of modern MACEDONIANS shown are mainly WRONG. Cleopatra was GREEK MACEDONIAN. The pictures showed people from the SLAVIC state of North Macedonia, part of previous Yugoslavia, only recently renamed as “N Macedonia”. Nothing to do with Greece. So to note, as we talk about HISTORICAL ACCURACY.
Cleopatra - A member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, she was a descendant of its founder Ptolemy I Soter, a Macedonian Greek general and companion of Alexander the Great. They were all blond or red haired, white skinned and as the Ptolomys were incestuous and married their brothers, sisters, mothers, and fathers then it would be extremely difficult for her to be black.
People went up in arms to defend the Little Mermaid as a character whose heritage doesn't matter because she's fictional, but those same people, are perfectly fine with an actual historical figure whose heritage is not only important but it's absolutely critical to her story getting race-swapped.
I am a Greek woman, I live in the province of Macedonia in Northern Greece, next to the ancient city of Philipi that was founded by Phillip II the Macedon, father of Alexander the Great. We, as a people, are very proud of our history and heritage, and anyone trying to strip it away from us for political (or any other) reasons is beyond insulting and offensive. *This* is cultural appropriation at its most blatant, and it's not up for discussion. But I guess it's alright because we Greeks are considered white, right? Rules for thee but not for me, innit?
Honestly most people who are not into history would have thought Egypt so Black it’s how this documentary happened
@@lostboy8084 the director stated that it was explicitly political lmfao.
@@weskintime4177 I'm guessing that the director was said that they had to have a black person in order to receive the funding. Because admission that it was a political hire isn't like them. Just waiting for a historical movie say one on Boudicca where the race swap and cast a transgender female in the role.
Yes it is. Afrocentric think that example Edward The Black Prince was black too 🙄🙄. They are obsessed about royalty . Ps. I love Greece.
Little mermaid is based on Ancient Greece folklore. If fictional characters can be define at any race, I can't wait for the uproar of Chinese Fairies that are not Chinese, lol.
If they really want to show and represent black african there are vast amounts of examples Black African women who leaded armies and ruled over vast empires. African history is beautiful and complex and full of multifaceted courageous women who did extraordinary things. Like Yaa Asantewaa or the Dahomey Amazons, or Queen Amanirenas or Queen Nzinga Mbande. These women lead armies and ruled empires. And they deserve our utmost respect.
any modern african history shows africa being destroyed by marxism so in order to preserve far left wing narratives they specifically do not cover it.
I think they did make something about Nzinga but then completely glossed over the fact that she owned a slave army because it didn't fit their narrative.
@@neroblack2704 Fair enough.
Anytime I think of Dahomey, I can only remember the fact that they were the most prominent slavers responsible for the African corner of the Triangle trade and it always puts a bad taste in my mouth. King Ghezo, the king of Dahomey, is quoted saying "The Slave Trade is the ruling principle of my people." when the British put pressure on the nation to end slavery in the 1840s.
@@TheKeksadler again fair enough.
As a Greek, I'm actually furious about how many times other cultures have tried to claim Hellenic historical figures!!! Stop it, please! I'm sure there are other equally intresting historical figures that are ACTUALLY part of your cultures!
She was of Macedonian and Persian ancestry.Stop greek washing her.
@@RU-Aussie Well Macedonia is (and has always been) part of Greece, so don't what you're saying. And about the Persian part, it's just a speculation. She probably was 100% Greek
“Her story resonates with every woman”
Married her brothers and and had one of them killed then marrying 2 romans one after another and then killing herself with a snake. Very resonating huh
And killing her little sister too.
Cool point: some Egyptians and north Africans are quite commonly so fair skinned that they could pass for white or mixed during the colonial and apartheid era, especially in comparison to their south and mid-african compatriots. I think honestly the main thing I'm mad at is just...why not cast an Egyptian actress? Or a Greek or Macedonian to show a nod to her Potemic dynasty?
Also this show casting itself as a documentary whilst seeming to take some liberties kills the historian in my heart, it feels like mistrustful advertising right out the door
With Macedonia i hope you don't mean north Macedonia, they are slavs that have nothing to do with ancient Macedonia, nothing wrong with being slavic, i respect those people and face discrimination for no reason but they are trying to steal greek history
A lot of modern day North Africans are not the decents of Ancient times. The people of Carthage were slaughtered in a genocide by the Romans and the historic Egyptians are largely gone. The current residents are from Arab descent. So we can draw conclusions based on present day inhabitants.
@@Master1Samsung No, the Coptic people of Egypt(about 10%) are the original residents as they stayed with their original religion while the arabs conquered them and immigrated and converted the rest.
@@ballenboy converted means that they are still the same people, they just believe something different
@@chrissmith3587 Yes but they are more indistinguishable from the conquerors who invaded, intermixing within the faith. There were really no arabic invaders who came and then converted to coptic (the losing religion and minority), this is why copts are the purer sample of pre-islamic invasion Egypt (before 700 AD).
What is really sad is that they used a double Uraeus crown, which is from the Nubian Kingdom. Its almost as if they wanted to make it about Amanitore but changed to Cleopatra VII thinking they could get away with it and it would make more money. As a Greek i find it very offensive especially since my family come from Pella, where Alexander the Great and Ptolemy I were from. Even more so as a Historian, who's favorite era of Egyptian History is the Ptolemaic Dynasty.
They shot themselves on the foot.
It's the Americans bro. I'm sub saharan African and I'm disappointed that Netflix didn't instead produce a documentary on the notable sub saharan rulers over history. I guess we're not marketable enough for Netflix
@@awfan221 well duh libs are the current kings of segregation. If you show real black stories it removes the angle of victimhood democrats use to harvest black voters.
I wish I could say it wasn't our fault. America sucks.
@@awfan221 😂 sub Saharan!? What is that?
Finally I see someone call out all the other bs outside of the raceswap.
"He wants to be the king to her queen" he saw her as a puppet in his political game.
I'm Egyptian, A COPTIC CHRISTIAN EGYPTIAN, I shout that out loud because we are the most pure blooded Egyptians out there and that's not only my opinion that's what scientists and historians also agreed on , and I tell you that every word that Bassem Youssef said is right and I totally agree with him.
Yes Egypt had lots of mixed cultures throughout its history like Greeks, Romans and Arabs but the Egyptian blood didn't mix and change that much and that's because for centuries we Egyptians had a golden tradition rule to marry our cousins, and that tradition is still present until now especially in Upper Egypt(From Assiut to Aswan), although that tradition seems silly and bad from a scientific biological point of view, but that doesn't matter, silly or not we kept that tradition of marrying our cousins for centuries and that helped us to preserve our pure Egyptian blood not mixed as long as we could, and the result is what you see now and that is Modern Egyptians looks typical to their Ancient Egyptian ancestors, just look at my skin color and Bassem Youssef's skin color we are almost the same although he is a Muslim who was born and lived in Cairo and I am a Coptic Christian who was born and lived in Luxor and there is almost 1000 km distance between us, doesn't that tell you a thing or two about who Ancient Egyptians were and what they looked like?
With all respect for all the black people and all the other ethnicities out there, but we Egyptians are special very special, WE ARE NOT Black or White or Yellow, Not Europeans or Africans or Asians, Not Assyrians or Persians or Greeks or Romans or Arabs or French or British or Israelites, Not Middle Easterners or Caucasians or Mediterraneans or Amazigh or Berbers or even North Africans.
WE ARE
EGYPTIANS,
WE ARE
VERY UNIQUE!
The irony is, Cleopatra is the most well known Pharaoh in the West because of *Eurocentrism*
Her story is the story of Egyptian-Roman history, the story of Egypt and the West. Other dynasties are not as commonly known because they didn’t have as much to do with Europe
So not only is this the absolutely wrong part of Egyptian history to claim as black, but our actual cultural obsession with the story of Cleopatra probably comes from *1800s British Romaboos*
And some claim the west change thing because not so much history is from africa ... but in the same time most of the people from central africa was a speaking tradition so not so much writing and the other part when europeen and arabic mansge to go there it was already no big civilisation , yea ok dahomey for slave trade but other thing is difficult to say . Europe and arabic cant go there in the past for the same raison europe cant go that far to the east . It was difficult ,mostly fatal because sickness . And we know in africa malaria was a thing even in that time so yea it was not the good interesting place to go XD. Bu it sad to saw africain not trying to go back with there ancestor because europeen and arabic history same for asian was easy because when you have two population very different you can cross source and see what is true and what is not .
Tut...what am I chopped liver?
@@anthonyoer4778 I mean, pretty much?
Tutankhamun was so forgotten and ignored that his tomb was left untouched, while most others had been turned over a scant few centuries later.
King Tut gives her a run for her money, I'd say.
But regardless, you are absolutely right about the second part, it was due to shared history: she was from a famous Greek Macedonian family, the founder of said dynasty was a personal bodyguard to Alexander the Great, Alexander's own historian and also one of his generals; Cleopatra was a lover to Julius Caesar with whom she had a child (Ptolemy XV Caesar, aka Caesarion, last Pharaoh of the Ptolemaic dynasty), and then lover to Marcus Antonius with whom she had three children. So yeah, pretty much intertwined with Greco-Roman history in several point in time, history that is the foundation to European shared history and culture.
I wouldn't call this Eurocentric, this is factual, Eurocentric is naming a period in history "the Age of Discovery" when we discovered jack, we - Europeans - just found out how to reach lands that others had discovered before us. That's eurocentrism.
@@watchm4ker really? Tut is the face of every museum "Egyptian exhibition" otherwise Nefertiti...
I don't care about "controversy" or if people are uncomfortable with something. I care if it is * true *, and then people can suck it up and deal with it.
Political considerations, even admirable ones like black and female representation, do not change facts. Noble causes are not served by revisionism.
This. More of this kind of mindset.
Hear hear
Well the myth of the 'African Cleopatra' has been going on since the early 1970's. I read a book in H.S. library that had chapters on African historical heroes. It stated that Cleopatra as well as Hannibal Barca were of African origin.
If I'm getting this right, the most extraordinary and remarkable thing about Cleopatra is that she managed to turn out an extraordinary and remarkable ruler after all that incest 😅
It's the fact that she didn't die before age 5
Thank you we are arguing over her race while no one is stating that her family bred in the family. They kept it strictly in the family. Think the most fascinating thing is she didn’t have any genetic issues.
It’s also understood she wasn’t all that remarkable looking either. It was her wit and intellect that attracted Julius and Mark. Which given her ancestry is astonishing.
There is evidence to suggest that Cleopatra may have been a sort of legitimized bastard. Being paternally the daughter of the pharaoh, but not the daughter of his sister.
The reasonable thing is to Imagine her mother came from either a Greek mistress from Alexandria (which was a Greek colony and basically had apartheid). Or maybe like a Syrian or something.
The idea that she was just, a sub Saharan black African. Is an insane stretch.
@@zacheryhalbert Well she was raised to be a leader with probably the best teachers mountains of gold and absolute power can get. Of course that does not diminish her sucess since many other leaders with access to similar education in history turned out to be morons.
She knew what her tools were and played them well. She made high stakes gambles and, although she finally lost, she had a realistic chance to make herself the ruler (or co-ruler) of Rome.
Being extremely smart, daring and educated pays well.
I'm less concerned about Cleopatra's skin color and more worried that they're going to completely butcher history and turn her into some romanticised icon of feminism and women power.
You should be concerned about both
Same thing,don't be dumb
Considering how the trailer goes, it seems that's already going to be happening. Stuff like showcasing her as a warrior in combat, or the line of "There is no rome without egypt" already push that they are making the documentary on "What we wish Cleopatra was" rather than what she actually was.
It's really clear in that article/interview Stakuyi brings up near the end. According to the producer "I really wanted to represent black women. We don't often get to see or hear stories about black queens, and that was really important for me. The sad part is we don't have ready access to these historical women who were so powerful and the backbone of African nations." They are attempting to paint over Cleopatra and transform her into the idealized "powerful African queen" that many people dream of as a feminist symbol of rebellion against whatever evil the feminist communities have found lately.
Cleopatra was a damn impressive queen, and no question that she's a great example of a powerful woman in history, but this just ends up looking like they are ironically doing the very thing that they complain about "the patriarchy" doing. Cleopatra isn't good enough or noteworthy enough on her own, so she NEEDS to be black to be worth learning about. They are making her skin color the defining aspect of her character, rather than any of her incredible skills such as being poly-lingual, an excellent scientist skilled in math, astronomy, economics, and even philosophy, as well as a strong contributor to medical knowledge even if many of her works were lost in the burning of Alexandria.
They are saying, even if unintentionally, her being a powerful woman in a world largely dominated by men is secondary to her being black, which is precisely the type of "If you're black, then whatever you actually did doesn't matter as much as what I think you did" mentality that fuels so much of the racism towards black people to this day.
@@Late0NightPC No,the behaviour of black people is what fuels any sentiment against them. And no,Cleopatra is a perfect example of why female rulers are a detriment to a nation. You are correct about the rest.
I'm sure real egyptians would disagree with you and care a lot about the black washing
I don't care what they tell you on Netflix, Cleopatra was NOT black.
The notion that a Ptolemy would name his daughter "the glory of her father" and that she would name herself "the goddess who loves her father" in Greek if they weren't absolutely certain of her Ptolemeic Greek heritage and pedigree is itself laughable. Add to that the fact that literally ALL archeological evidence of her existence, including sculptures commissioned by her and her lovers, absolutely disproves the notion she was anything but caucasian.
The whole idea of an African Cleopatra doesn't even emerge until the mid-20th century. Its so laughably absurd and provably false that no person with a single ounce of integrity would ever utter it. First, because they would verify it with research before saying the thought, and second because even the most cursory research would turn up a bust, painting, or engraving commissioned by her that clearly shows Mediterranean European caucasoid features.
There isn't even a remote possibility that Cleopatra was black. Its as likely as Queen Elizabeth I being secretly asian or King George III being Inuit.
Why do they need to change real people they can make movies/shows about real black historical people that are forgotten and very interesting
Because a small minority of blacks in american are crybaby whiners who never study anything and think "buh egpyt in africa so dey were black!" then they get violent when anyone corrects them. As well as its a well known business strategy to pander to "disparaged" peoples.
Because they dont really care about black people. Its just about pandering to the masses.
Because there is an agenda. And the agenda is not showing historical black figures. Is undermine the racial,cultural and historical perception of caucasians
Cuz they're not as historically relevant and popular.
Also, inferiority complex
@@thfkmnIIItbh (with all respect to Cleopatra) but her biggest contribution to "historical relevancy" was losing Egypt to Rome (which was bound to happen sooner or later anyway), arguably she wasn't even Rome's biggest enemy at the late Republic/early Empire period, King Mithridates of Pontus was (and also lost to them). Not saying I do not understand the fascination with her, I do (I also understand why Mithridates also used to fascinate people, certainly enough to have an opera written about him), but let's not overplay her contribution.
I do agree of course that her popularity nowadays is the reason she's getting the Netflix treatment.
I hate to say it, but between this and Ancient Apocalypse, Netflix is shaping up to be the new History Channel
God help us.
At least this has some factual information 😂
@@_MikeJon_ That's how the History Channel started off.....
@@yoeriw7099 are you saying it no longer does?! 😲
@@_MikeJon_ Well I'm starting to doubt that they don't. The alien stuff seems plausible, the big foot stuff far out but still. the ghost hunting stuff yeah nooo...
But the Log Ness stuff is what made me doubt 🤣🤣🤣 sorry can't keep a straight face
Before 172 AD everyone in the known cosmos was actually black. The whitecalypse happened as a result of oversaturation of pigmentation in the unverse and may have affected all of space. However, people did not see color back then, so they did not have the ability to indentify that Cleo was in fact black, leading to historical errors in the record. My granny told me so.
Netflix has one large oven where they always bake something, but in the end they overexpose the "dish" in the oven and it turns out .. burnt)
Netflix just ran Ancient Archeology by known pseudoarchaeologist Grahm Hancock, so trusting them to be accurate in any biography is insane. Thanks having a look at this. I'll be looking for more from you. :-)
It a patern at this point
They're turning into the History Channel at this point
Atleast it was fun to watch whether the likelihood of what he says isn't very high
Can we point out the fact that Cleopatra had immense respect for Caesar since he showed her genuine respect and admiration. Also that she probably fell in love with Mark Anthony on account of him being incredibly charismatic and and also respecting her like Caesar did.
She didn't love them, they were convenient relationships that secured her position and power, and the kids she had were a good way to get her lovers to give her roman lands for "them to rule"
@@cb41503 It definitely started out that way, but I wouldn't be surprised if something did blossom between the 2. They were both highly intelligent, charming and familiar with the game called 'diplomacy'
I truly believe there is a trend of rage bait hate watching from studios. Velma is another example of taking a story and messing up so bad as to make people hate watch it
The most shameful thing is hearing the push for “telling authentic African stories”, yet nobody seems brave enough to actually tell them. I would love a series about Mansa Musa or Amanitore to tell true and honest stories that finally have genuine equal representation.
If the producers wanted to showcase African queens, then they should do that. There’s plenty of unrepresented stories and history that should be shared and brought to a wider audience. Changing a known figure just leaves the other stories untold and hidden.
I liked this video. I think that people forget that the African continent as we know today is not the same Africa during that time. The hellenistic period started with Ptolemy and ended with Cleopatra.
Additionally, for her to rule as queen, she had to marry her brother and did just that. She ended up marrying two of her brothers.
When civil war broke out, her best way of ensuring power and obtaining the throne was by using caesar’s military strength and as you stated, rome needed egypt’s resources.
Being the first to learn the Egyptian language and using the idea that she was Isis by dressing and playing the role the people loved her for that.
On another note, to all those who provide names in the comments section if african historical figures that should be made into film, thank you! I love history and now I have a few interesting topics/events/people to learn about.
What is also forgotten is the immense diversity of people in Africa with the largest expression of human genes and cultures.
When a documentary about Cleopatra is less accurate than the comic book Asterix and Cleopatra.
That family tree says it all. The Ptolemy family were more Targaryen than the Targaryens..
Netflix need to take 'Documentary' out of the title..
"The sad part is that we don't have access who was so powerful that they become the backbone of african nations"
Nubian Queens who literally fought the Romans after Egypt become a Roman Colony: "the sad part is that you cling to an easy way out rather than try to go over a wooden wall"
The not so sad part is that they have the genetic lineage of Cleopatra VII and shows Zero chance's of Jetta's re-imagined depiction.
This is Just a forgery of Egyptian History, SMH what a low power grab attempt.
If I am not mistaken, also Axum had been ruled by queens in certain periods.
Also there were many Ethiopian Queens who were very powerful. Those would make for some interesting historical documentaries.
@@thenamesianna is not like you have to go that far to see female rulers. You can find it easily in Europe as well no prob. The problem is 1) they are complex human being and not epitome of feminism and their trash ideology. 2) being human they sometimes fail, like Maria of Taranto that went against her own king (Ladislao) because the king tried to take some of her territories after the death of her husband Raimondello Orsini. Turned out the wife was as good as the husband in warfare, or at least she kept the best generals and f***ed over and over the King's armies. However when said king offered her the crown of Naples and to become queen with him as husband, she took the bait hook line and sinker and become "queen" only to discover that in Naples she had no allies in any place and slowly became isolated and powerless. Can't have human beings in documentaries and stories, only girlpower shit
Makes sense they got Jada Pinkett Smith involved in this thing. Nobody can top her skills when it comes to gaslighting and rewriting history, after all.
Facts.
Thank you Egyptians, for helping keep Greek history true. Χαιρετίσματα απ'την Ελλάδα.
P.S. On a side note about the Macedonian part. You goofed and got the Slavic grouping that started calling themselves Macedonians and their country Macedonia, when you googled it. Their old, original name being Vardarska. Those Macedonians are the Southern Branch of the Slavic peoples, related mostly to Bulgarians and some Serbs in the west of their country. The ancient, old Macedonia, of which stemmed Alexander the Great that Cleopatra would end up inheriting part of his empire is a Greek tribe.
"I don't care what they tell you in school, Jesus H Christ was a wyt guy who looks like a member of Alba."
-Clayton Bigsbys grandfather
Spreading false information. Like they're ignoring history
They are re-writing history as cultural marxism requires
1984, the goal is to change history to fit the current narrative and to always change it to always fit the new current narrative, the work never end
@@FrenchLightningJohnYou’re right this is literally 1984
Google what afrocentric try to claim 🙄🙄.Nothing to do with facts.
My mom told me that about the middle east. She said the middle east was in Africa and that I'm being white washed. I tried to argues back but then she yelled at me.
While yes a SMALL part of the middle east is in Africa, such as Egypt and (in some descriptions) Sudan and Libya. The MAJORITY is Asian countries.
Some times black people can be a bit unknowing when it comes to history and stuff.
Your mom needs to go to north Africa to see that white people exist in Africa
😮😮😮 really
The Ptolomaeic Dynasty was extremely good at "keeping it in the family". That tree is a circle
This is possibly the most unbiased take on this so far, and I’m so happy about it. Other reviews I’ve seen haven’t gone nearly in depth about the full history and details you researched. This isn’t a documentary; it’s about female and minority empowerment, and you’ve probably given out more information in both quantity and accuracy about Cleopatra in this review than the entire show.
Isn't it very contraproductive though? Them needing to falsify history for empowerment shows weakness, not strength.
If they wanted to make a movie of a African ruler, why not make one of it. I supposed the lack of information of it might hinder and (Speaking from the view of the investor and not the directors) not been as popular as Cleopatra makes hard to sell, but then that would awesome to make people want to uncover and share story of important rulers of Africa or any black rulers in general.
It's because they're not interested in African History, because Africa is, you know, not important enough I guess?. Cleopatra is an important figure because she plays a role in European History, and Americans view themselves as inheritors of that legacy in a way. Not so with Africa
They tried that with the "Woman King" - and it failed. There are bound to be more and better examples, but for some reason they just keep getting it wrong.
Might have something to do with most African societies being patriarchies and very few matriarchies of note in their history.
Africa does get pretty ignored in history conversations from a western perspective. For my schooling, they mainly come up in terms of the slave trade and the interactions with Mediterranean powers. That being said, extra history has done some good series on Africa, and I would definitely watch a Nzinga movie. I initially thought the Women King was about her, until I actually sat down to read the description.
I feel like the trailer just exudes a "I dont care if I'm blatantly wrong" feeling which is sad because a accurate documentary about her would be great.
There are portraits of her done by Roman artisans. They depict her with white skin & red hair... Yeah, Cleo was a redhead.
Red hair is not common among black africans.
Can’t wait for Jada’s documentary on Queen Victoria, the first black Queen of England.
Coming to soon in 2025: Diana, Black Princess of Wales.
I love when an Afro centric scholar wants to make a claim, it requires "well there is this invisible person who is black I'm going to insert into the background like a fanfiction."
9:53
This part angers me the second most (the first being the lady saying her source is her grandma),
there are access to those history!
One of AoE2's DLCs have a full campaign about Ethiopian Princess Yodit, and how she take over the country.
The AoE2 Forgotten Empire studio could do that, Netfilx and Mrs.Smith with their much much more budget and connection could not?
Seriously, fark these people and their lazy ass, they DON'T CARE about actual black women in history, they just want to black wash well-known historical figure and call it a day, it's insulting to history and lazy.
Haha yeah I remember that game, Mom bought the Microsoft Office bundle for Win95 or 98 and that game was included in it. She told me I could play it if I helped her install the package on her PC. I never installed anything quicker, I can tell you, even at 8 years old. Had an amazing time with that game
No one cares about them as munch as who these afrocentrics are appropriating 🤣
Her grandma doesn’t speak for Netflix. Netflix never said cleopatra was Black
Why didn't Netflix make a documentary about Nefertiti? Not only is she much more interesting as a subject, but there is a much higher likelihood that she was of Kushite or Black African descent.
You also forgot that the Ptolemies were greek supremacists. The likelihood of her grandmother being African is very unlikely. Her grandmother was likely Cleopatra IV, her grandfathers sisters. Cleopatra III made Ptolemy 9's marriage to his sister illegitimate and claimed it to be incestuous as they married before their father died. Their children were made illegitimate. It is far more likely Cleopatra's father came from the 'illegitimate' marriage. Either that or her grandmother was a GREEK concubine. We have busts of Cleopatra and her father. It is evident neither are mixed race.
Cleopatra was white Greek Macedonian
And inbred
Had they made this about Hapshetsut , Nefertari, Nefertiti, Ahhotep I , NeferNeferuaten, Sobeknefru, and literally like almost a dozen other women who ruled Egypt throughout its long history, they would have nailed it. But they picked Cleopatra of all people.... part of me thinks that Netflix might have done this on purpose just to use controversy to market the project. It's been said that any publicity even negative is good publicity... I do want to see african history portrayed more in the mainstream and given serious interest, but seriously, present it accurately!!! There are so many great historical figures to choose from.
I agree, and thank you for naming all.the women who they can choose that I couldn't remember.
And even those queens are not black
@@majidtaha7268 i think some of those you could argue, nefertari am sure ismost schoalars believe is black as an example
Even then many of them would have a Mediterranean skin colour, not subSaharan black.
Egyptian people just are not black.
@@Marveryn no..nefertari had our Egyptian tanned skin colour and features not blk subsaharrans..what scholars are u talking about
I think the point put forward by Egyptians is quite cogent, she was a colonizer of the country, showing her as one of them is going to be weird.... I think this is a very import context that is quite unique to this case of 'black-washing'...
It's sad that they're doing this without really researching Egyptian history. Egypt, at various times was ruled by Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Nubians, etc. There's so much interesting history there as source material, that there's no need to make the history other than what it was to find a dark-skinned ruler of Egypt, over the 7,000 years of its history. There's so much left untold. Do some research and tell us those stories.
Next we are making documentaries of George Washington played by Idris Elba.
Isn't that basically Hamilton
But that would be awesome
@@jordan115v4 agreed my favorite black actor lol
I mean, as long as you don't _pretend_ that G.W. really was black, Idris Elba is one heck of an actor. You could make it like a Kenneth Branagh production, where the colour blind casting adds to the theatrical feeling.
@@sgtmarcusharris4260 Hamilton is at least honest that it's not 100% facts and is an outlet for talented POC performers to retell an interesting event in history rather than an accurate 1:1 recreation. It's not billed as a documentary meant to inform people of facts like this bs is trying to pretend to be.
Looking at that family tree it's a miracle that it produced a ruler capable of playing the three most power-hungry men of the classical world off one another. A tree like that we're lucky her chin didn't split atoms or something.
Thats why I question the statues and drawings of her, look at the rulers of Spain, England and France through time and inbreeding is clear in the portraits.
we are not sure about Cleopatra's mother, we don't have a name. It is possible that she was daugher of a concubine, thus ironically reducing the chance of being born with genetic problems
@@stefanoputignano1555I doubt that would change much after 13 generations of inbreeding
@@cb41503 a small chance is better than no chance, and it would explain her intelligence
@@cb41503I remember seeing a video that explained that generations of inbreeding can be undone with only one non-inbred coupling. It's not a weird thing to misinterpret, as not lot of people are familiar with the science of inbreeding or inbreeding at all basically.
7:00 "no Rome without Egypt" might actually be an out of context quote.
If we take it in the context of a civil war, there were no Rome for either Antonius or Julius. It is not about supplying the Rome itself, it is about supplying one army and not the other.
Caesar wanting to be king of Egypt is like me wanting to rule an independent Nebraska.
I think that there is a story that satisfies the things that the creator wants and is historically accurate. Looking at the story of Nzinga Ana of Ndongo and Matamba who ruled kingdoms in northern Angola during the 17th century and led resistance movements against porugese colonization efforts this is your afrocentric girl boss.
“This whole this is the production of Jadea Pinket-Smith”
That explains it
Caesar definitely wanted to be King of Rome. He dressed in purple (the symbol of royalty) on festival days. He (probably) staged several incidents of people handing him a crown, then he rejects it when the public isn’t enthusiastic. He sat on a golden throne during senate meetings. He definitely wanted to be king.
Well, a bit late to the show. But here's my two cents as an Egyptian I guess, for what it's worth:
One of the main things that really tick me off, personally, is that the show starts with the conclusion. It's not about "let's tell a story about Cleopatra and do our due diligence and research", it starts with the sentiment that can be summarized from the quote you mentioned by Jada Pinkitt-Smith basically saying "I want to tell the story of a black, African woman" and the lady in the trailer quoting her grandmother saying "I don't care what they tell you in school, Cleopatra was black".
There's a lack of incentive to actually tell the story as it was, there's a particular notion that they try to fit the history around.
Which makes calling this a documentary insulting, not just due to the potential misrepresentation of Cleopatra's ethnicity or skin color, but due to the sheer arrogance of the producers. You're trying to make a documentary, but in your very trailer you elect to represent it with "I don't care what they tell you in school", a slap to academia and research altogether. And here I'm left just asking: Why?
I hate it whenever I try and tell my family this because it's met with "yah, mhhm, ok sure" like the answers right there don't act like it hasn't been
If it makes you feel any better, they probably believe all sorts of historical misconceptions you wouldn't even imagine.
If you're not getting mad about those, it's not worth getting mad about this one bro.
@Nachonen17 no I get mad at them all this ones just simple
@@Vinixty78 Oh well, godspeed then XD
@@thaneofwhiterun3562 thanks
Marvel's season 2 of "What If...?" sure looks interesting
If it was labeled as "Marvel what if" instead of "Netflix documentary" I would 120% believe it given Marvel's current state
I remember Gal Gadot getting hate for saying she wanted to play Cleopatra, which is weird because as a Ptolemy she would've been Macedonian, so would've been a close fit.
I would debate whether Cleopatra was about Egypt. She craved power. Egypt was her fatherland. She also identified strongly with her Greek roots. Everything she did was for herself.
It seems to me that we look at history too much from today's perspective. It seems to me that we look at history too much from today's point of view.
You did a good job addressing the historical inaccuracies without turning to racism and misogyny, I respect that greatly.
I find this rather tragically ironic, as it ends up perpetuating the very mentality that caused so much racism in the first place, and continues to fuel it today. Cleopatra was an impressive and powerful woman, even more so considering that she was in a world largely dominated by men. However that apparently isn't enough, and her accomplishments and feats/achievements aren't nearly important as her skin color.
Even if they don't intend to do this at all, it paints the picture that Cleopatra's incredible talents in language, politics, conversation and math/science are secondary when compared to whether or not she was black or not. That's the same sort of mentality used to discriminate against a lot of black people and communities, that idea of "Because you are black, and black people are always criminals, you aren't trustworthy even though I've only just met you, regardless of what accomplishments you claim to have".
It even suggests the fact she was a woman who did all this is not nearly as important as the """fact""" she was black, which just feels like this section of the black-empowerment community is throwing female-empowerment under the bus in order to get more clout for themselves. Which personally I hate seeing that most of all. Social justice communities should not be infighting against each other like this, as a world where everyone is tossing each other under the bus just means no one will get anything done, and those in power can stay safe as any rivals they have will take care of each other for them instead of being a threat to their power and changing things.
It's ironically the exact thing that so many feminists complain about "the patriarchy" doing, defining who someone is based entirely on surface level features and deciding on how noteworthy an accomplishment is based on "are you X, if yes then you deserve recognition, if not, then you don't deserve any" logic. Sort of "Cleopatra was noteworthy because she was """actually""" black the whole time, and if she actually was white, then we wouldn't feel the need to make this documentary."
Perhaps the trailer is just absolutely shite, and when it comes out it will turn out to actually be pretty good all things considered. But the focus the trailer places on "She was actually black", particularly with that old lady's quote from her grandmother, really doesn't give me much faith about that happening.
It's really a pity, the woman so incorrectly "known for her beauty and seduction" rather than her wit and intelligence continues to be defined primarily by her physical features, and not just how damn interesting she would have been to talk to.
a lie is a lie, no matter if the intentions are good or bad.
Why Hollywood thinks african means BLACK? My man that's called racism.
Africa is a whole continent with multiple cultures and ethnicities.
Considering every black person "afro" is considering all the Africans black.
Most of North Africa is not black so it really is just racist to just assume the colour of there skin
So my family is from the village of Variko in Greece, the Western Macedonia region. I can say that, with some sun exposure, some of my family can have some fairly dark complexions (some have even encountered some discrimination for it in their school ages) but it's not like what's shown in the trailer.
Like she would have a darker tone like not pasty white more like southern Italy esque or Spanish
There's a difference between tan Mediterranean person and African.
I've seen some pretty pale Syrians and lybians too.
@@Dracon7601 She was royalty and probably didn't spend too much in the sun, as pale skin was the standard of beauty back in the day.
There's evidence to suggest that ancient Egyptians may have had a paler skin tone more akin to lybians, murals depicting royalty show nobles and people who wouldn't have been out in the field all that as kinda rosy skinned or pale.
It's not far out to assume that, with her being of Greek ancestry, she would have had a light or pale skin tone.
@@thaneofwhiterun3562 Greeks commonly aren't that pale it's relatively uncommon for a pale skin tone, olive skin/light brown being more common.
@@Dracon7601 Yeah, I know.
A distinction I failed to mention, Macedonians were probably paler, as they were of partly Illyrian ancestry Greeks often denounced them as half-barbarian. Maybe because the somewhat reassembled Gauls.
Alexander himself was blonde, with a green eye and brown one.
My more central point however, is that Cleopatra probably cared about being and staying pale. So, if we agree that Macedonians at least were light skinned, probably Cleopatra was too.