Brad, you should get in contact with SimulaVR - they have an 35.5 PPD standalone x86 Linux headset and it looks like they're apparently looking for review unit testers. Would love to see a video reviewing what they've actually made...
As a millenial who will never be able to afford a house, I like the space saving that these "spatial" computers offer. It will come in handy when I retire in a van down by the river.
I want a simple/affordable/lightweight PCVR HMD with lots of µOLED pixels and Index-like sound and controllers that could optionally be wired to something like an upgraded Steam Deck for "standalone" use.
@@DamienPaulLabonte hell no they don't, do you want a repeat of the switches underpowered hardware but instead of in your hands it's strapped to your head running at 30Hz?
Great points about how the hardware is close but not available in the right combinations! (Though maybe someone is close? CoughValvecough) I have to admit that I’m slightly disappointed that you didn’t duct tape the ROG to the back of the HMD. Or maybe the 2020s version of duct tape is 3D printing a mount?
Hardware is not the limiting factor, its the OS. That's what SimulaVR is also doing, they know they basically need to create and OS for their headset. All we have had so far, is the VR Home. Its kind of a 90s idea what virtual reality would be. While in reality, its about how to use 2D content more efficiently than on your monitor.
Just shows it's the messenger. Media and fanboys will get on their knees for anything Apple. Apple Testicle Torture Device - Marquis Brown says it's "magical".
Glad you brought up the point of the Beyond. Alot of people arent aware that the headset is not native 2560x2560 but upscaled to that resolution at 90hz which is a bummer when you are paying $1k for it. I was going to buy it till i learned about this.
You forgot that currently, Intel SoC burns your skin when underload and consumes a shit ton of power. No headset is gonna be able to run any sort of workload without the user being uncomfortable. This is why Vision Pro is so revolutionary ... a desktop-class SoC with decent battery life (artificially restricted with a small battery) and integrated well into the entire Apple Ecosystem. Intel is years behind Apple on this market segment. Let's keep it real. Linux is notorious for having very poor UI. It cannot compete with the likes of Apple in user experience. ZERO. You need a legitimate competitor who has experience designing good UX
Do you think Humane's approach to a pocket computing device could eventually replace the external battery pack for use with AR glasses? I believe that tech could be a driving force for EDITH-style AR glasses. Xreal is essentially proof of concept. If the cameras and censors can be moved off HMD as well as the computing and battery (like Xreal), then a pair of glasses would need way less weight and parts. IMO that's a huge part of why Apple made that external battery. They are getting users adjusted to having an external device attached to their belt or clothes to prepare us for the AR computer eventually plugged into their glasses. Thoughts????
I've been a professional iOS contract developer since the iPad 1 came out over 10 yrs ago, and I do appreciate the concerns around Apple's closed system. The benefit of it however is as you say, no other company could create something this good. But on top of that, I've been through most of the videos and documentation from this years WWDC, and the professionalism and thought that has gone into creating both the user environment, as well as the development environment, is utterly incredible. The details that they have thought about and factored into their hardware and OS are mind-blowing. I'll be starting development this weekend now that the SDK is out, and incredibly excited to see what is possible.
So you can't use MacOS apps on iPads Pro even though they have the same m1 chips because of professionalism and thought gone into it? Phew! I was scared it's because they are too greedy :-D
@@s4091boat Or maybe it's because apps designed for a mouse-and-keyboard interface do not provide a good user experience on a purely-touch device. I can't believe people are still having difficulty with this concept thirteen *years* after the first iPad came out.
@@s4091boat No, you use iPad apps on MacOS. 🤷🏻♂ The APIs for both operating systems have always been very different, both syntactically and architecturally. It's a legacy thing dating back decades. They're slowly converging though.
@@SadlyItsBradley I think you're right. They know what they want, and they are one of the best at iterating on intent. iOS, iPadOS, MacOS, Swift, SwiftUI, all have gotten better as the years have gone on in both their APIs and UXs, driven in part by their own plans, but also by the developers working on their systems every day. I've absolutely no doubt the same will happen with the Vision. Will it be to everyone's taste? Not necessarily. Is Windows? Is Android? Everyone will hopefully have an opportunity to pick their lane. I just hope when they do they all get to play nice with each other.
i totally agree that it's ALMOST there, it's like so close we can taste it. it's fun when you have a brief moment or glimpse of it working as imagined excited for hardware and software to catch up, and i'm sure apple pushing the bar of quality is going to help everyone
The later generations of AR headsets is when its really gonna take off. Apple needed to announce this product so the whole concept of XR can marinate in people's minds for a few years and then we'll be really curious once they show off a smaller form factor.
It’s gonna be a while, for sure. I think the first gen product from Apple already reaches for the stars with current technology. And I’m happy about that
2:40 I just got chills. I was not expecting that.. *.* *looks over at the Ally that I have set up in a dock connected to a monitor as a $700 "2nd PC"* 5:52 - Just a note here. AL*X*R is just a fork of AL*V*R that can do Passthrough on most headsets...
Bradley???? Should I get a quest pro new 800 USD. Value proposition...Quest pro or quest 3 based on overall quality of image? ( Sharpness or ppd considering latest leaks as quest 3 smaller fov ) Thanks for the hard work an another awesome vid!
That's the thing I don't get about early views of the Apple Vision Pro. Like from what we've seen it's just a bunch of 2d apps on Floating screens and frankly there's no way to really add any locomotion or anything to them sooo... It's a phone that you don't need to hold? I don't see the point there. When meta showed their productivity stuff as just a bunch of floating windows it feels like everyone reacted pretty negatively in a "So you just work more?" way, but when it's Apple people lose their minds? I just don't get it. Like yeah better resolution is cool and all but if you're just looking at screens anyway what does it actually add to the experience?
@@ViridianFlow "from what we've seen it's just a bunch of 2d apps on Floating screens" If you look at the developer materials Apple has provided, you can see that they're pushing the development of 3D content, including fully-immersive 3D content, pretty hard. There's definitely room for both spatially-oriented mostly-2D apps and fully-spatial 3D content on this device.
@@ViridianFlow It's another analogy to using a computer, with its own upsides and downsides. The main advantage to this new analogy is you're not limited by your display size, and you can functionally and metaphorically put your apps anywhere in your environment. It is true that a lot of apps, while having a nice glassy look consistent with the rest of visionOS, will be 2/2.5D windowed apps, especially in the first few years as developers figure out what the best practices for when to use, in Apple's terminology, 'Windows', 'Volumes' and 'Spaces' are, and when the best time is to create an immersive, mixed, or fully immersive environment for their users, but with their developer talks I think Apple has showed that they clearly thought a lot about what shapes and forms apps that will be designed for the Vision Pro might take and when a function of an app can get really enriched by it, they will adopt volumes and spaces over time. I agree in the first few years the apps themselves other than the fact that they can be placed anywhere in your environment might not be in a place that will make people go “Ah, this is why Apple made this headset!”. And I don’t think it was unexpected that it would be this way since I think part of the reason they want to ship now despite even some of their own first party apps not having been fully ported over to visionOS yet and just existing as compatible iPad apps (at least for now in promotional videos several months before the date they will ship the thing), is that they want to ship the hardware with the essentials as quickly as possible so that they themselves figure out along with third party developers what this new form factor is for. But the advantage of having a form factor, sensor suite and a second processor advanced enough to be able to reliably anchor all of your apps anywhere in your environment will always stay for the headset form factor either way.
I'm curious to see how Meta (and Qualcomm) respond to Apple. Currently Meta just uses Qualcomm's phone chips, which are obviously no match for Apple's tablet/laptop chips. Previously Qualcomm didn't really make good laptop chips. But Qualcomm's upcoming 8cx Gen4 seems to be first serious laptop chip with actual desktop class specs like its 8+4 CPU cores instead of the typical 4+4. IMO Meta should continue with Qualcomm's phone chips for the Quest line which targets affordability, but the Quest Pro line should start using Qualcomm's laptop chips
I'm excited for this future; I'm buying a Quest Pro for standalone productivity and as an all around good HMD. I'm just using the browser for all my work but it's so interesting to see all the progress the industry is making, and I someday hope to help further this dream of mine as a career. Typing this on a Quest 2 right now, some of the software can be buggy and has some features missing but it seems really promising!
Can we just rebadge Magic Leap into MagicBerry for historical purposes now? Also, just to say the unpopular thing: In order for us to get a proper 'spacial' metaverse that isn't just gangs of disjointed chatroom apps, we're gonna need Government/Municipal help. Like.....the internet did. An entirely privatized VR web won't happen. Too many capitalisms, too little good faith.
I’m just mind blown by the target it gives people who aren’t users.. that screen they’ll be looking at will be perfect for training their models on others’ gaze
I like the idea separating spatial compute from hardware compute. Having an all in one device may not be ideal since hardware computation will always improve over time. Miniaturizing hardware compute to fit on the vr headset will be costly both money wise and heat wise. Upgradability will be an issue until we see a frameworks like company getting into this sphere. Spatial compute doesn't necessarily need to be upgraded. It is designed to do a certain task. Hardware compute can be upgraded from whatever graphics card/cpu combo you have now to what the future can entail. We could see a vr headset capable of doing 1080p to 8k path tracing depending on the capability of the off compute hardware. I recall that you mentioned that Valve had a wireless vr patent that connects the pc directly to the headset. We may need something like that for wireless. Either that or wired may be the way to go. You can even have steam deck for portability.
I see the manufacturing benefits of doing all in one, but when I see the apples tether to a battery pack, I can’t help but imagine more split compute concepts taking advantage of such a thing Modularity is an open systems superpower. And since no one can compete on a closed platform level compared to Apple, I like separation
"Having an all in one device may not be ideal since hardware computation will always improve over time" But the laws of physics won't, and trying to keep real-time video rendering below the perceptual threshold will necessitate having as much of the compute hardware as possible as close to the displays as possible.
@@SadlyItsBradley I have a friend who’s all in on the Apple eco system. He groaned at the idea of tethering the battery pack for the vision pro. What he likes about Apple is that they give you highly capable devices that is both simplified and integrated with their other devices. He worries the battery pack tether is too complicated for mainstream acceptance. While he does have a point, I have a different opinion in regards to that. The battery is essentially the easiest degradable part of any electric device. Having it separate so you can replace it gives the headset more longevity. Plus you can choose to have a large battery or a more sleek battery depending on your use case. My friend and I are not aligned in the idea of separating hardware compute away from the headset either. He wants the headset to be all in one for a more simplistic usage. Latency wouldn’t be an issue in that instance.
Or literally go with framework, grab a motherboard + battery + nreal and put it all in a mini-backpack you have a modular system you can upgrade as tech gets better. I'm really looking forward to what they do with their modular laptop GPUs later this year.
@@theworddoner I totally see that side of the coin too. Makes a ton of sense. I think one reason my mind goes to the idea of splitting up the compute a bit, is the possibility I can just use something as strong as a desktop pc. But that’s an absolute non factor for the Apple ecosystem, so it makes sense for them to
Because of course, 'Virtual Reality' was just too last decade. We've all been asked to promptly forget about it like an embarrassing middle school yearbook photo. Now we've got 'Spatial Computing.' I'm sure we'll be asked to pretend it's not the same idea in shiny new packaging.
I honestly don't understand how Bradley (and everyone else) can say the Quest Pro isn't recommended for productivity purposes. I use it for this exact purpose and it works awesome. Sure, it's not a "spacial computing" experience, but I am able to sit back comfortably in my lounge chair with my lap desk with keyboard and mouse and work comfortably on my PC for hours on end. It provides a clear enough experience to do this and it's the only affordable headset able to offer that experience right now.
Give me ten mil and ten sets of hands and brains and I'll make an HMD that outcompetes apple. Can't do that? Well, I'm selling my soul to apple and developing expclusively for VisionOS now 🤷♀️
So, I finally got around to messing with the Quest 2 I picked up from Facebook Marketplace. How in the mother flipping heck did they screw up the hand tracking so bad? All the ingredients are there. The hand tracking itself works surprisingly well. How did they not combine that with gaze detection? Even if it isn't perfect eye tracking, gaze detection works really well when done right to determine what someone is probably looking at. Combined with being near where the hand tracking is likely trying to interact and I'm sure Meta could reproduce the UI interactions seen with Apple's demo right now inside the Quest 2. No eye tracking required. I'm sure the magic of perfect eye tracking could only add to the intuitive experience. But as the hand tracking stands right now, it is just a tiny little update away from being a fully game changing way to use the headset.
Brad doesn’t fully understand the relief I feel when I put on my Quest and can be productive on multiple screens than the single screen on my iPad or laptop especially in travel. Is it perfect? No. Does it help? YES, hence why I disagreed with your Quest Pro productivity review. I believe it was salty and didn’t come from a great visionary place.
I thought it was rather amusing how Apple vehemently would NOT use the terms VR and AR, as if they're somehow creating the entire paradigm all on their own. Typical Apple but that's marketing for ya too.
- Now let's see what this 'Spatial Computing' really is... Yet another metaverse?! - And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids!
its still crazy to me that the vision pro needs a brick on a wire but they put all the compute in your face why not have a cpu in a brick and just the bare minimum on your face
I guess because they have to use the ML split design ...where the battery goes in your pocket and the soc with fans hang outside of your pocket for better cooling ....but that design makes it look like a huuuge brick
I actually use an M2 mac and the NReal light glasses regularly when traveling. For software development it helps to have multiple screens, to code on, see the product in a browser, see debug output on their own screens. The FOV could do with being bigger but its already more useful than a single panel laptop screen. I wouldnt bother with an XR2 powered mobile device though, needs a big more compatibility and grunt than that. Which is the problem the new apple vision pro headset seems to have. It wont be able to run macos applications apparently :( I was looking forward to replacing the laptop + glasses with just a headset until i heard that.
It looks to me that the Apple Vision Device will slowly disappear, but what remains will be the eye and hand tracking, which will be integrated into Macbooks, iPhones etc.. until apple can make a more lightweight device. The tracking will give them an edge when it comes to user UI and UX
I mean, a tiny backpack has the potential to be a huge VR system and an insane battery... I don't see why no one has just tried this. Entirely untethered and a backpack really isn't immersion breaking, especially not those slim smaller than your waist ones that look like a sleek water bladder. Honestly that makes the most sense to me. It would be expensive but then it's literally just a gaming laptop with s giant battery that you strap to your back. Give it a quick release from the strap mechanism and you have a powerful small form factor computer that can serve as a regular desktop.
I mean think about it, Framework laptops already have cases for their motherboards that don't even remain laptop form factors. This would be quite easy to prototype, all you do from there is get a short cable from the headset to the backpack-laptop. Then you're only relying on wifi for the internet itself, as nature intended, no insane latency issues etc. No need for annoying stand alone hardware in the actual headset. And unless you're going to travel with it, you've the option to install a really fat battery. I imagine you'd get at least four hours of gaming time if we go by average gaming laptop metrics.
@@SadlyItsBradley I actually got to try one of the ROG VR backpacks at work. The weight of the pack and the sheer heat it kicked out while running was insane.... I think it had dual hotswapping batteries too! Seeing all the new tech come out from Ai, Dedicated positional processing, and Displays... the dream is finally coalescing.
I wonder how you even get away with the fact that you forget to speculate on a deckard design that would make a Steam Deck 2 compatible to a next gen Valve headset though….😂🤭
It truly is a matter of time before we get devices that combine "standalone" with some type of other device to boost it in the consumer space. As I see it, it's just the evolution of the technology, the phone went through MANY iteration or the computer and so will VR.
Brad I've been waiting for a VR upgrade. I've moved from a PSVR1 to a Rift S to a Reverb G2 V2. The valve index has a decent refurbished price atm. The problem is the quest 3 is about the same price do you think I should I continue to wait or pull the trigger on a complete valve index setup? On one hand the Beyond is a potential upgrade option otherwise I feel waiting for valves next iteration.
@@rod4309 Indeed, having something that can "do it all" is what I'm most excited for re: the future. There's no reason we can't have our cake and eat it too.
@@rod4309 not much to solve in the gaming, its mostly about the OS now... its not about hardware, but about a sensible OS for VR use. Thats kinda what apple also tried to solve.
As for the ROG Ally or any handheld I wish somebody made a screen with controller combo that takes a single USB Typc-C for alt display so I can turn my PC into a portable. It doesn't have to be an ARM based system on a chip. Just keep it simple. I mean how people have a PC in the bedroom and wished they could game in bed? There could be a breakout cable so that hdmi would be supported for consoles. Maybe license the built-in controller to be compatible with Xbox or Playstation if need be.
Most people tell me it's a stupid take, but I think that for consumer XR -IN THE MEANTIME- (important distinction), the Magic Leap design is mostly right. Before all else, the headset needs to be thin, light and not-hot as possible. That means leaving that which is truly needed on the head like displays, sensors and a sensor chip and not much more. That way you have something on you head that weighs no more than 250 grams and something akin to bigger swim or sports goggles but with a headstrong. I know Brad has talked a lot with Mr. Guttag and he is very strongly against wires, but I think his perception comes more from industrial use cases and places with hazards where a knocked wire could have serious consequences, and not a 5 second annoyance. Rather than trying to put everything on the head at once and shrink it, start from the other way around. Put things on the head as you can shrink them.
I fully agree with this . However it odd that I know you know why they make these decisions . Ability has not much to do with what willing to do . All these decisions are confusing and frustrating…… unless looked at rationally from perspective of “ you cannot crap out perfect VR “ and mass adoption is the priority across the board . Plain and simple . It kinda like going into a martial arts studio and demanding a 9th degree black belt … told you have years of training and development to go through … but don’t care about all that and just want the 9 th degree black belt . All of this stuff coming strait up , one thing that everyone not putting in context and should not be discussed openly and why I don’t normally is military use . Palmer just had an interview, have always agreed with about 90% of what he says but is missing whatever it takes to put people before progress . This tech has to be controlled every single step of the way because of how dangerous it is … period . Games are fun and everything , but they would NOT be pushing this hard without a endgame they are forcing . Palmer was too “ not irritated” , someone listening to him again , if you smart as I think you are you should know what that means . The decisions about gaming and “ spacial computing “ are all about mass adoption . Apple made a “ perfect first impression “ device , they are not taking chances on the tech being misunderstood or dismissed . They made a device to strait up mesmerize investors so a lot and I mean a lot of money starts flowing into this like a funnel . Meta is so simple is maddening people don’t talk about the games in light of mass adoption because it so obvious . They NOT made for the old crew they are made to get new players , not rocket science . CGI trailers with real people in them is to help convince new players to play and show them how … has nothing to do with us other then play it if you want , we got stuff to do . So when I hear opinions that I understand fully how people got those conclusions IF leaving the elephant in room out of the conversation then YEA all these decisions seem dumb and wrong …. but most are extremely smart and about getting people to ACCEPT VR in mass numbers so they can actually get to all the things people worrying about now … they just ain’t hit the time for cause they are forcing VR down societies throats whether they like it or not Don’t have to go full dark on why , but games will come as a result and that just a given at this point and that the tech will get better then you or I can even imagine in just 20 -30 years which I will be dead for but you be there to see a lot . Lucky is impatient and willing to risk species to progress , all we can hope is enough prior pull the reigns back enough we get a form of this without to much of the dark stuff . Controlling the SPEED of progress is about SAFETY .
Microsoft has a lot of cool documents on spatial computing for their HoloLens platform. The term has been used since 2003 within Human-Computer Interaction research. As far as buzzwords are concerned I prefer the term compared to "metaverse." Brad thank you for your wonderful videos!
@NoX-512 That's true. I think it demonstrates the different directions the two companies are taking in regards to the application of AR/VR. Meta wants to focus on the social experiences and shared spaces with the tech enabling that vision. Apple built a device meant to be a computer on your face. One device wants to transport you, the other wants you to sit on a couch with floating screens. Similar tech, different visions. Apple didn't call their device AR/VR once, but it's still VR. and Meta headsets are still spatial computers. It's how the companies are marketing the terms that's interesting. And I prefer Apple's approach to mixed reality.
@@MixedRealityMusician I agree with your analysis, except I prefer Meta's vision. I'm not into social VR, but VR gaming is much more fun than flatscreen gaming. I'm not wearing a headset all day long, and I never will. This is the problem with Apple's vision. Having to put on a headset every time you want to use a screen. I prefer TV's, laptops and phones for that, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority will feel the same. User retention rate is already very low for social and gaming VR. Not because people don't like it, but because putting on a headset is too big a barrier.
The solution for now will be to use dual DP 1.4a. This is what the Valve Deckard i̶s̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ err will have to use if it includes the rumoured ~4000x3600 per eye + HDR + 120hz
@@decadent. Using two DP connections would be a great solution. I'd be really happy with that. Also, if that's the kind of resolution expected for Deckard, then the level of impatience I have for it just got increased a bit!
What about the idea of a Vision Pro connected to a Mac Book Pro via a TB4 cable or some propietary Apple cable that is USB4/TB4 at one end and has the puck connection at the other. Do you think Apple may have this as an option at some point?
Interestingly... Oculus may have been onto something with their "constellation" tracking when it comes to spatial computing. Think about a laptop, a bigscreen beyond or something that size, a cable, and then just having the headset tracked with 6dof by a webcam/image-sensor on the laptop. This would allow a Beyond-sized headset with full 6dof tracking without needing base stations. Bam, you instantly have a much better version of that glasses-laptop thing, with a top-of-the-line experience
You could even have something like a leapmotion sensor on the laptop for hand tracking, so you could do hand tracking without the headset needing to do any of that heavy lifting
I have them. The resolution isn’t the issue for me - but the FOV is a bit limiting if you are wanting a “multiple monitor” kind of solution. The fact is that just one usable monitor will fit in the view - with a little of the other. The fact that they leave your vision may not seem like a big deal… but functionality this disruption is a bit of a slow down and sort of ruins the use case for me vs just using even just one physical monitor.
It's an amazing world called "Treehouse in the Shade", even though I haven't touched the game since they put garbage anti "cheat" in there, it was still my home world for years.
I'm honestly so sick of the phrase "spatial computing" already and that people are eating it up so quickly. There is nothing to the concept past having windows up in VR. This... is nothing new. I have monitor arms for my computer. I've been doing spatial computing for almost a decade. Apple's pretty damn behind the curve. Was (awkwardly) hopeful that Apple might show off what how their headset is great... and they failed to impress. I feel like enough people aren't getting the point that it is literally an iPad strapped to your face. An iPad with multiple screens. There is a vague potential for more, however aside from the resolution/clarity issues in most all current headsets, expecting developers to jump on trying to sell a program to 100k apple user's vs the quest's 20 million or whatever it is... Whatever else Apple is trying ta do, what they AREN'T doing is actually helping the ecosystem. Choosing to develop on a platform that has no users is just... ya. Not to mention going through the obstacle course that is Apple app approval. Meanwhile a number of headsets that are fit to compete with Apple's resolution/clarity aren't far off while almost certainly providing a larger userbase and more open development with more possibilities. And the potential for those competing headsets will only grow and grow as the Apple headset takes forever to come out. There's also so much talk of productivity.... Exactly how much productivity can you accomplish on an iPad? Nothing related to coding. Nothing with any company that has any real amount of security software they require on their machines. Nowhere that requires the use of any real installable applications. How many people start their day by booting up their iPad to get to work? People just seem to be ignoring this entirely and blindly eating up whatever Apple say about how it's a productivity workhorse. FOR WHO? None of this is likely to change any time in the foreseeable future. It's bad for any paying job. It's bad for VR. It's might be passable for stereotypical entrepreneurs who just need to be able to log on to Amazon website to see how their shop is doing. It's bad for anyone who thinks it's a great idea in invest anywhere from their own personal lives to millions of dollars of development and work teams into making apps. I heard they were experimenting with allowing Mac applications on their headset, but I think we all know that isn't going to happen. Freely allowing mac applications instantly breaks their walled garden and devalues their app store by allowing companies a free route past their app store tax, god forbid allowing other companies to then make their own app stores for the headset. The only way that's likely to happen is if Apple implements the same walled garden approach. Maybe force Mac apps to require a license for installing onto the HMD? Sacrifice enough firstborns to go work an Apple's factories and you get a stamp of approval on your app to allow it to load... a middleground, but one that still appropriately refuses to allow the headset to simply work as a Mac. Meanwhile, however, ever since Microsoft started talking about how they had such grand plans for VR I've been desperately awaiting a proper VR OS.... and it just hasn't come. So that's been frustrating. Apple's phone/tablet ecosystem and even Android's is so aggressively closed or overcomplicated vs the simplicity but freedom of windows. Meanwhile there's a Linux headset... but rarely do simple tasks not take hours/days in linux. Instead MS just continues to fail me.
Though I will add... Apple's announcement also proved that Meta made the wrong choice by not allowing some form of the Android marketplace to load on the Quest. I don't think people really understand how thin than line is, either. So much of an outcry about how expansive the "ecosystem" is and how it's just SO MUCH BETTER because of that and how it's set to trounce the pitiful Quest. The only real difference between Apple's HMD and Meta's as that Meta didn't allow it. If the quest had android support it would have more flat screen apps AND actually have VR experiences vs Apple's flat apps. I would be very disappointed in Meta if they don't finally open those floodgates some time before Apple launches. Just... allow Android apps. That's all it takes.
Why do you think there would no users on the platform? It isn't shipping yet until next year and you are now confident that it will have 0 users. I've already seen developers trying to port their apps on the headsets. Quality and specs, a handful of very expensive match the AVP on that and those cheaper ones have an asterisk or missing things. And also, Da Vinci, FCP X, and LP X are desktop applications that are now on the iPad. Lightroom, Clip StudioPaint, Affinity products(Photo, Designer, and Publisher). There's even someone trying to port a simulator for astronomical objects to the iPad. And also FCP X is rumored to come on AVP. It's a little bit shortsighted to make coding as the base. And also, re security software, they already do deploy it on the iPads. I've already have seen stories of companies publishing their app for iPad on their network. And also, if you watch the dev videos, they try to encourage to go beyond the 2.5D windows they've shown in the keynote. There are multiple ways to make your app on AVP and it depends on the developers. Android doesn't have that rich ecosystem of tablet optimized and professional apps compared to iPadOS. Not surprised because iOS users are more likely to pay for it.
XReal + Ant Crossfire 120 FOV lenses + Mic $ 4k cameras for head tracking and recording + side and front removable covers for full VR + Bluetooth and wifi connect for wireless connection to PC or Puck and/or wired connection. Everything is there. Just needs to come together.
Brad, you should get in contact with SimulaVR - they have an 35.5 PPD standalone x86 Linux headset and it looks like they're apparently looking for review unit testers. Would love to see a video reviewing what they've actually made...
You beat me to it, I'd love to hear Brad's opinion on SimulaVR too
Thanks for letting me know this exists!
That's sounds like software hell and 4 open source developer being the only driving force behind it's usability lmao
As a millenial who will never be able to afford a house, I like the space saving that these "spatial" computers offer. It will come in handy when I retire in a van down by the river.
Best snl skit
retire?
I want a simple/affordable/lightweight PCVR HMD with lots of µOLED pixels and Index-like sound and controllers that could optionally be wired to something like an upgraded Steam Deck for "standalone" use.
A peripheral, instead of a head console.
Unless its Nintendo, they get a pass
@@DamienPaulLabonte hell no they don't, do you want a repeat of the switches underpowered hardware but instead of in your hands it's strapped to your head running at 30Hz?
@@NathanBrownisawesome So much yes
AMEN
Great points about how the hardware is close but not available in the right combinations! (Though maybe someone is close? CoughValvecough) I have to admit that I’m slightly disappointed that you didn’t duct tape the ROG to the back of the HMD. Or maybe the 2020s version of duct tape is 3D printing a mount?
I thought of it way too many times. But chickened out just as many times 😭
Hardware is not the limiting factor, its the OS. That's what SimulaVR is also doing, they know they basically need to create and OS for their headset.
All we have had so far, is the VR Home. Its kind of a 90s idea what virtual reality would be. While in reality, its about how to use 2D content more efficiently than on your monitor.
In the Cyberpunk lore you get one of two options: 3d printing, or garbage picking.
Ask your wallet which you deserve.
Special Computing
Special Computing👍
👏🫨
My mom says im a special computer
Church lady: "Isn't that Spatial"
Special Computing
“Spatial Computing”… because Facebook ruined their shot at defining VR.
Just shows it's the messenger. Media and fanboys will get on their knees for anything Apple. Apple Testicle Torture Device - Marquis Brown says it's "magical".
Really appreciate your videos
Glad you like them!
Glad you brought up the point of the Beyond. Alot of people arent aware that the headset is not native 2560x2560 but upscaled to that resolution at 90hz which is a bummer when you are paying $1k for it. I was going to buy it till i learned about this.
Can you share where you read that? I didn't see anything about that when I tried to search just now.
@@DoubleJumpPunch sure
ua-cam.com/video/sx4Xw0Q0GFA/v-deo.html
Skip to the 19:50 mark.
@@miker230 Thank you!
You forgot that currently, Intel SoC burns your skin when underload and consumes a shit ton of power. No headset is gonna be able to run any sort of workload without the user being uncomfortable.
This is why Vision Pro is so revolutionary ... a desktop-class SoC with decent battery life (artificially restricted with a small battery) and integrated well into the entire Apple Ecosystem.
Intel is years behind Apple on this market segment. Let's keep it real.
Linux is notorious for having very poor UI. It cannot compete with the likes of Apple in user experience. ZERO.
You need a legitimate competitor who has experience designing good UX
mad scientist type of stuff... more like brad scientist
Help. My brain
Great video. Thank you for your thoughts, we appreciate them.
Interesting video.
Just bought me a new QP for 967$. Looking forward to catching up on VR :)
Posted 41 seconds ago, with one view, man am I early. Hello Brad!
Hallo!
Do you think Humane's approach to a pocket computing device could eventually replace the external battery pack for use with AR glasses?
I believe that tech could be a driving force for EDITH-style AR glasses. Xreal is essentially proof of concept. If the cameras and censors can be moved off HMD as well as the computing and battery (like Xreal), then a pair of glasses would need way less weight and parts. IMO that's a huge part of why Apple made that external battery. They are getting users adjusted to having an external device attached to their belt or clothes to prepare us for the AR computer eventually plugged into their glasses. Thoughts????
Why not finally helmets 🤔
I've been a professional iOS contract developer since the iPad 1 came out over 10 yrs ago, and I do appreciate the concerns around Apple's closed system. The benefit of it however is as you say, no other company could create something this good. But on top of that, I've been through most of the videos and documentation from this years WWDC, and the professionalism and thought that has gone into creating both the user environment, as well as the development environment, is utterly incredible. The details that they have thought about and factored into their hardware and OS are mind-blowing. I'll be starting development this weekend now that the SDK is out, and incredibly excited to see what is possible.
I went through a lot of it as well. And it’s given me the same feeling that “they know what they’re doing” when it comes to what they want to do
So you can't use MacOS apps on iPads Pro even though they have the same m1 chips because of professionalism and thought gone into it? Phew! I was scared it's because they are too greedy :-D
@@s4091boat Or maybe it's because apps designed for a mouse-and-keyboard interface do not provide a good user experience on a purely-touch device. I can't believe people are still having difficulty with this concept thirteen *years* after the first iPad came out.
@@s4091boat No, you use iPad apps on MacOS. 🤷🏻♂ The APIs for both operating systems have always been very different, both syntactically and architecturally. It's a legacy thing dating back decades. They're slowly converging though.
@@SadlyItsBradley I think you're right. They know what they want, and they are one of the best at iterating on intent. iOS, iPadOS, MacOS, Swift, SwiftUI, all have gotten better as the years have gone on in both their APIs and UXs, driven in part by their own plans, but also by the developers working on their systems every day. I've absolutely no doubt the same will happen with the Vision. Will it be to everyone's taste? Not necessarily. Is Windows? Is Android? Everyone will hopefully have an opportunity to pick their lane. I just hope when they do they all get to play nice with each other.
eighth!
i totally agree that it's ALMOST there, it's like so close we can taste it. it's fun when you have a brief moment or glimpse of it working as imagined
excited for hardware and software to catch up, and i'm sure apple pushing the bar of quality is going to help everyone
Valve, save us
The later generations of AR headsets is when its really gonna take off. Apple needed to announce this product so the whole concept of XR can marinate in people's minds for a few years and then we'll be really curious once they show off a smaller form factor.
It’s gonna be a while, for sure. I think the first gen product from Apple already reaches for the stars with current technology. And I’m happy about that
2:40 I just got chills. I was not expecting that.. *.* *looks over at the Ally that I have set up in a dock connected to a monitor as a $700 "2nd PC"*
5:52 - Just a note here. AL*X*R is just a fork of AL*V*R that can do Passthrough on most headsets...
VRChat with AR looks amazing!
litterally 39 seconds ago
Bradley???? Should I get a quest pro new 800 USD. Value proposition...Quest pro or quest 3 based on overall quality of image?
( Sharpness or ppd considering latest leaks as quest 3 smaller fov )
Thanks for the hard work an another awesome vid!
I'd been thinking roughly about the same experiment you described (using a quest with a Rog Ally or similar), Im glad you've essentially done it.
hi brad
I've tried so hard to find a video of a person actually doing any 'real' work with a Quest Pro and I couldn't find any. 😂
Windows 11 bluetooth and local connectivity code is a hot steaming pile. Horrible.
Spatial computing is 2d apps
That's the thing I don't get about early views of the Apple Vision Pro. Like from what we've seen it's just a bunch of 2d apps on Floating screens and frankly there's no way to really add any locomotion or anything to them sooo... It's a phone that you don't need to hold?
I don't see the point there. When meta showed their productivity stuff as just a bunch of floating windows it feels like everyone reacted pretty negatively in a "So you just work more?" way, but when it's Apple people lose their minds?
I just don't get it. Like yeah better resolution is cool and all but if you're just looking at screens anyway what does it actually add to the experience?
@@ViridianFlow "from what we've seen it's just a bunch of 2d apps on Floating screens"
If you look at the developer materials Apple has provided, you can see that they're pushing the development of 3D content, including fully-immersive 3D content, pretty hard. There's definitely room for both spatially-oriented mostly-2D apps and fully-spatial 3D content on this device.
@@ViridianFlow It's another analogy to using a computer, with its own upsides and downsides. The main advantage to this new analogy is you're not limited by your display size, and you can functionally and metaphorically put your apps anywhere in your environment. It is true that a lot of apps, while having a nice glassy look consistent with the rest of visionOS, will be 2/2.5D windowed apps, especially in the first few years as developers figure out what the best practices for when to use, in Apple's terminology, 'Windows', 'Volumes' and 'Spaces' are, and when the best time is to create an immersive, mixed, or fully immersive environment for their users, but with their developer talks I think Apple has showed that they clearly thought a lot about what shapes and forms apps that will be designed for the Vision Pro might take and when a function of an app can get really enriched by it, they will adopt volumes and spaces over time. I agree in the first few years the apps themselves other than the fact that they can be placed anywhere in your environment might not be in a place that will make people go “Ah, this is why Apple made this headset!”. And I don’t think it was unexpected that it would be this way since I think part of the reason they want to ship now despite even some of their own first party apps not having been fully ported over to visionOS yet and just existing as compatible iPad apps (at least for now in promotional videos several months before the date they will ship the thing), is that they want to ship the hardware with the essentials as quickly as possible so that they themselves figure out along with third party developers what this new form factor is for. But the advantage of having a form factor, sensor suite and a second processor advanced enough to be able to reliably anchor all of your apps anywhere in your environment will always stay for the headset form factor either way.
I'm curious to see how Meta (and Qualcomm) respond to Apple. Currently Meta just uses Qualcomm's phone chips, which are obviously no match for Apple's tablet/laptop chips. Previously Qualcomm didn't really make good laptop chips. But Qualcomm's upcoming 8cx Gen4 seems to be first serious laptop chip with actual desktop class specs like its 8+4 CPU cores instead of the typical 4+4. IMO Meta should continue with Qualcomm's phone chips for the Quest line which targets affordability, but the Quest Pro line should start using Qualcomm's laptop chips
I fully agree. I would love a real XR setup for productivity but we're just not there yet
The new mini wifi 6e cards have a dual connect feature that can create a hotspot on one band and connect to your internet router on another
I'm excited for this future; I'm buying a Quest Pro for standalone productivity and as an all around good HMD. I'm just using the browser for all my work but it's so interesting to see all the progress the industry is making, and I someday hope to help further this dream of mine as a career. Typing this on a Quest 2 right now, some of the software can be buggy and has some features missing but it seems really promising!
that last part was a big twist, i did not expect that
Dear fellow scholars,
What a time to be alive!
Can we just rebadge Magic Leap into MagicBerry for historical purposes now?
Also, just to say the unpopular thing: In order for us to get a proper 'spacial' metaverse that isn't just gangs of disjointed chatroom apps, we're gonna need Government/Municipal help. Like.....the internet did.
An entirely privatized VR web won't happen. Too many capitalisms, too little good faith.
Hi Brad.
Hi hi ^^7
Facial Computing
I’m just mind blown by the target it gives people who aren’t users.. that screen they’ll be looking at will be perfect for training their models on others’ gaze
Make it comfortable? Make it valuable (data wise)
I like the idea separating spatial compute from hardware compute.
Having an all in one device may not be ideal since hardware computation will always improve over time. Miniaturizing hardware compute to fit on the vr headset will be costly both money wise and heat wise. Upgradability will be an issue until we see a frameworks like company getting into this sphere.
Spatial compute doesn't necessarily need to be upgraded. It is designed to do a certain task. Hardware compute can be upgraded from whatever graphics card/cpu combo you have now to what the future can entail. We could see a vr headset capable of doing 1080p to 8k path tracing depending on the capability of the off compute hardware.
I recall that you mentioned that Valve had a wireless vr patent that connects the pc directly to the headset. We may need something like that for wireless. Either that or wired may be the way to go. You can even have steam deck for portability.
I see the manufacturing benefits of doing all in one, but when I see the apples tether to a battery pack, I can’t help but imagine more split compute concepts taking advantage of such a thing
Modularity is an open systems superpower. And since no one can compete on a closed platform level compared to Apple, I like separation
"Having an all in one device may not be ideal since hardware computation will always improve over time"
But the laws of physics won't, and trying to keep real-time video rendering below the perceptual threshold will necessitate having as much of the compute hardware as possible as close to the displays as possible.
@@SadlyItsBradley I have a friend who’s all in on the Apple eco system. He groaned at the idea of tethering the battery pack for the vision pro.
What he likes about Apple is that they give you highly capable devices that is both simplified and integrated with their other devices. He worries the battery pack tether is too complicated for mainstream acceptance.
While he does have a point, I have a different opinion in regards to that. The battery is essentially the easiest degradable part of any electric device. Having it separate so you can replace it gives the headset more longevity. Plus you can choose to have a large battery or a more sleek battery depending on your use case.
My friend and I are not aligned in the idea of separating hardware compute away from the headset either. He wants the headset to be all in one for a more simplistic usage. Latency wouldn’t be an issue in that instance.
Or literally go with framework, grab a motherboard + battery + nreal and put it all in a mini-backpack you have a modular system you can upgrade as tech gets better. I'm really looking forward to what they do with their modular laptop GPUs later this year.
@@theworddoner I totally see that side of the coin too. Makes a ton of sense. I think one reason my mind goes to the idea of splitting up the compute a bit, is the possibility I can just use something as strong as a desktop pc.
But that’s an absolute non factor for the Apple ecosystem, so it makes sense for them to
Because of course, 'Virtual Reality' was just too last decade. We've all been asked to promptly forget about it like an embarrassing middle school yearbook photo. Now we've got 'Spatial Computing.' I'm sure we'll be asked to pretend it's not the same idea in shiny new packaging.
I honestly don't understand how Bradley (and everyone else) can say the Quest Pro isn't recommended for productivity purposes.
I use it for this exact purpose and it works awesome. Sure, it's not a "spacial computing" experience, but I am able to sit back comfortably in my lounge chair with my lap desk with keyboard and mouse and work comfortably on my PC for hours on end. It provides a clear enough experience to do this and it's the only affordable headset able to offer that experience right now.
Framework 16 modular workstation laptop or Handhelds with the upcoming Strix Halo APUs from AMD next year anyone?
Give me ten mil and ten sets of hands and brains and I'll make an HMD that outcompetes apple.
Can't do that? Well, I'm selling my soul to apple and developing expclusively for VisionOS now 🤷♀️
So, I finally got around to messing with the Quest 2 I picked up from Facebook Marketplace. How in the mother flipping heck did they screw up the hand tracking so bad? All the ingredients are there. The hand tracking itself works surprisingly well. How did they not combine that with gaze detection? Even if it isn't perfect eye tracking, gaze detection works really well when done right to determine what someone is probably looking at. Combined with being near where the hand tracking is likely trying to interact and I'm sure Meta could reproduce the UI interactions seen with Apple's demo right now inside the Quest 2. No eye tracking required. I'm sure the magic of perfect eye tracking could only add to the intuitive experience. But as the hand tracking stands right now, it is just a tiny little update away from being a fully game changing way to use the headset.
Brad doesn’t fully understand the relief I feel when I put on my Quest and can be productive on multiple screens than the single screen on my iPad or laptop especially in travel. Is it perfect? No. Does it help? YES, hence why I disagreed with your Quest Pro productivity review. I believe it was salty and didn’t come from a great visionary place.
I thought it was rather amusing how Apple vehemently would NOT use the terms VR and AR, as if they're somehow creating the entire paradigm all on their own. Typical Apple but that's marketing for ya too.
Bro i thought the thumbail was photoshopped til i saw your ghastly reflection in the Quest Pro lmfaooo
- Now let's see what this 'Spatial Computing' really is... Yet another metaverse?!
- And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids!
its still crazy to me that the vision pro needs a brick on a wire but they put all the compute in your face why not have a cpu in a brick and just the bare minimum on your face
$500 battery headstrap here we come
I guess because they have to use the ML split design ...where the battery goes in your pocket and the soc with fans hang outside of your pocket for better cooling ....but that design makes it look like a huuuge brick
I actually use an M2 mac and the NReal light glasses regularly when traveling. For software development it helps to have multiple screens, to code on, see the product in a browser, see debug output on their own screens. The FOV could do with being bigger but its already more useful than a single panel laptop screen. I wouldnt bother with an XR2 powered mobile device though, needs a big more compatibility and grunt than that. Which is the problem the new apple vision pro headset seems to have. It wont be able to run macos applications apparently :( I was looking forward to replacing the laptop + glasses with just a headset until i heard that.
It looks to me that the Apple Vision Device will slowly disappear, but what remains will be the eye and hand tracking, which will be integrated into Macbooks, iPhones etc.. until apple can make a more lightweight device. The tracking will give them an edge when it comes to user UI and UX
I mean, a tiny backpack has the potential to be a huge VR system and an insane battery... I don't see why no one has just tried this. Entirely untethered and a backpack really isn't immersion breaking, especially not those slim smaller than your waist ones that look like a sleek water bladder.
Honestly that makes the most sense to me. It would be expensive but then it's literally just a gaming laptop with s giant battery that you strap to your back. Give it a quick release from the strap mechanism and you have a powerful small form factor computer that can serve as a regular desktop.
People did this a lot around 2016 with the Vive! But it never caught on. Except for LBE
I mean think about it, Framework laptops already have cases for their motherboards that don't even remain laptop form factors. This would be quite easy to prototype, all you do from there is get a short cable from the headset to the backpack-laptop. Then you're only relying on wifi for the internet itself, as nature intended, no insane latency issues etc. No need for annoying stand alone hardware in the actual headset.
And unless you're going to travel with it, you've the option to install a really fat battery. I imagine you'd get at least four hours of gaming time if we go by average gaming laptop metrics.
@@SadlyItsBradleythat's sad.
@@SadlyItsBradley I actually got to try one of the ROG VR backpacks at work. The weight of the pack and the sheer heat it kicked out while running was insane.... I think it had dual hotswapping batteries too! Seeing all the new tech come out from Ai, Dedicated positional processing, and Displays... the dream is finally coalescing.
I wonder how you even get away with the fact that you forget to speculate on a deckard design that would make a Steam Deck 2 compatible to a next gen Valve headset though….😂🤭
Ah buzzwords...normal people aren't going to care about any of this vr stuff until they don't have to look like an idiot in their living room.
It truly is a matter of time before we get devices that combine "standalone" with some type of other device to boost it in the consumer space. As I see it, it's just the evolution of the technology, the phone went through MANY iteration or the computer and so will VR.
If I don't look like Kusanagi, seeing through your skin with my high tech helmet, I don't want it.
Once we have a high ppd that make screens in vr sharper than actual monitors,and eye tracking and valve like controller, VR will be mainstream
Brad I've been waiting for a VR upgrade. I've moved from a PSVR1 to a Rift S to a Reverb G2 V2. The valve index has a decent refurbished price atm. The problem is the quest 3 is about the same price do you think I should I continue to wait or pull the trigger on a complete valve index setup? On one hand the Beyond is a potential upgrade option otherwise I feel waiting for valves next iteration.
if it reinforces your decision, i just bought an index to then upgrade to beyond later this year.
I would be annoyed at a black menu following me around in VR. Yikes! Lol.
6:15
How did Brad get hand tracking in pcvr VRChat?
Tobey Maguire and Elijah Wood's love child
Wat ar you talking ?about - thrill arleady modded his quest pro into one! 😛
Somehow the steam deck actually performs better than the ally at 15w.
that's sus
Subscribed, awesome content bro.
I wish those standalone vr headset had the option to use displayport for the tethered PC modes
Cloud-hosted apps could bridge the gap (god I hate that I said that).
Glacial Computing
Facial Computing?
Good stuff as always brother
Is Bradley and Jamejamevr the same person?
SimulaVR is doing exactly this, but spatial computing is about productivity.. not gaming & vrchat
I’m aware; but I wanted to show off “stress tests” here to bridge the gap in what’s possible.
@Nobody-Nowhere "spatial computing is about productivity.. not gaming & vrchat"
Why not both, like a PC with a different monitor?
@@rod4309 Indeed, having something that can "do it all" is what I'm most excited for re: the future. There's no reason we can't have our cake and eat it too.
@@rod4309 not much to solve in the gaming, its mostly about the OS now... its not about hardware, but about a sensible OS for VR use. Thats kinda what apple also tried to solve.
As for the ROG Ally or any handheld I wish somebody made a screen with controller combo that takes a single USB Typc-C for alt display so I can turn my PC into a portable. It doesn't have to be an ARM based system on a chip. Just keep it simple. I mean how people have a PC in the bedroom and wished they could game in bed? There could be a breakout cable so that hdmi would be supported for consoles. Maybe license the built-in controller to be compatible with Xbox or Playstation if need be.
Most people tell me it's a stupid take, but I think that for consumer XR -IN THE MEANTIME- (important distinction), the Magic Leap design is mostly right. Before all else, the headset needs to be thin, light and not-hot as possible. That means leaving that which is truly needed on the head like displays, sensors and a sensor chip and not much more. That way you have something on you head that weighs no more than 250 grams and something akin to bigger swim or sports goggles but with a headstrong.
I know Brad has talked a lot with Mr. Guttag and he is very strongly against wires, but I think his perception comes more from industrial use cases and places with hazards where a knocked wire could have serious consequences, and not a 5 second annoyance.
Rather than trying to put everything on the head at once and shrink it, start from the other way around. Put things on the head as you can shrink them.
I fully agree with this . However it odd that I know you know why they make these decisions . Ability has not much to do with what willing to do . All these decisions are confusing and frustrating…… unless looked at rationally from perspective of “ you cannot crap out perfect VR “ and mass adoption is the priority across the board . Plain and simple .
It kinda like going into a martial arts studio and demanding a 9th degree black belt … told you have years of training and development to go through … but don’t care about all that and just want the 9 th degree black belt .
All of this stuff coming strait up , one thing that everyone not putting in context and should not be discussed openly and why I don’t normally is military use .
Palmer just had an interview, have always agreed with about 90% of what he says but is missing whatever it takes to put people before progress .
This tech has to be controlled every single step of the way because of how dangerous it is … period . Games are fun and everything , but they would NOT be pushing this hard without a endgame they are forcing .
Palmer was too “ not irritated” , someone listening to him again , if you smart as I think you are you should know what that means .
The decisions about gaming and “ spacial computing “ are all about mass adoption . Apple made a “ perfect first impression “ device , they are not taking chances on the tech being misunderstood or dismissed . They made a device to strait up mesmerize investors so a lot and I mean a lot of money starts flowing into this like a funnel .
Meta is so simple is maddening people don’t talk about the games in light of mass adoption because it so obvious . They NOT made for the old crew they are made to get new players , not rocket science . CGI trailers with real people in them is to help convince new players to play and show them how … has nothing to do with us other then play it if you want , we got stuff to do .
So when I hear opinions that I understand fully how people got those conclusions IF leaving the elephant in room out of the conversation then YEA all these decisions seem dumb and wrong …. but most are extremely smart and about getting people to ACCEPT VR in mass numbers so they can actually get to all the things people worrying about now … they just ain’t hit the time for cause they are forcing VR down societies throats whether they like it or not
Don’t have to go full dark on why , but games will come as a result and that just a given at this point and that the tech will get better then you or I can even imagine in just 20 -30 years which I will be dead for but you be there to see a lot .
Lucky is impatient and willing to risk species to progress , all we can hope is enough prior pull the reigns back enough we get a form of this without to much of the dark stuff . Controlling the SPEED of progress is about SAFETY .
Microsoft has a lot of cool documents on spatial computing for their HoloLens platform. The term has been used since 2003 within Human-Computer Interaction research. As far as buzzwords are concerned I prefer the term compared to "metaverse."
Brad thank you for your wonderful videos!
Spatial computing and the metaverse are two very different concepts. For starters, the metaverse doesn’t require VR/AR.
@NoX-512 That's true. I think it demonstrates the different directions the two companies are taking in regards to the application of AR/VR. Meta wants to focus on the social experiences and shared spaces with the tech enabling that vision. Apple built a device meant to be a computer on your face. One device wants to transport you, the other wants you to sit on a couch with floating screens. Similar tech, different visions. Apple didn't call their device AR/VR once, but it's still VR. and Meta headsets are still spatial computers. It's how the companies are marketing the terms that's interesting. And I prefer Apple's approach to mixed reality.
@@MixedRealityMusician I agree with your analysis, except I prefer Meta's vision.
I'm not into social VR, but VR gaming is much more fun than flatscreen gaming. I'm not wearing a headset all day long, and I never will.
This is the problem with Apple's vision. Having to put on a headset every time you want to use a screen. I prefer TV's, laptops and phones for that, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority will feel the same.
User retention rate is already very low for social and gaming VR. Not because people don't like it, but because putting on a headset is too big a barrier.
I'm interested to see how the Somnium VR1 can run at 2880x2880 per eye at 120Hz and even 144Hz.
The solution for now will be to use dual DP 1.4a.
This is what the Valve Deckard i̶s̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ err will have to use if it includes the rumoured ~4000x3600 per eye + HDR + 120hz
@@decadent. either that or that dp trick the vive pro2 is using or some other upscale or whatever
@@decadent. Using two DP connections would be a great solution. I'd be really happy with that. Also, if that's the kind of resolution expected for Deckard, then the level of impatience I have for it just got increased a bit!
PLEASEEEEEEE MORE DECKARD INFO! :D
What about the idea of a Vision Pro connected to a Mac Book Pro via a TB4 cable or some propietary Apple cable that is USB4/TB4 at one end and has the puck connection at the other. Do you think Apple may have this as an option at some point?
speaking of the quest pro and vision pro have you messed around with the vision pro test thing thrill seeker did for the quest pro yet
should you reduce the headset to pure additional screens only, for simplicity sake
would like to see how well an rog ally could run a oculus rift s (given that headset is much easier to drive than any other)
Interestingly... Oculus may have been onto something with their "constellation" tracking when it comes to spatial computing. Think about a laptop, a bigscreen beyond or something that size, a cable, and then just having the headset tracked with 6dof by a webcam/image-sensor on the laptop. This would allow a Beyond-sized headset with full 6dof tracking without needing base stations. Bam, you instantly have a much better version of that glasses-laptop thing, with a top-of-the-line experience
You could even have something like a leapmotion sensor on the laptop for hand tracking, so you could do hand tracking without the headset needing to do any of that heavy lifting
Imagine if these hedsets hqd displayport 😢
What do you think of the Xreal Air strictly as a monitor replacement? Do you think the resolution/FOV are good enough?
I have them. The resolution isn’t the issue for me - but the FOV is a bit limiting if you are wanting a “multiple monitor” kind of solution. The fact is that just one usable monitor will fit in the view - with a little of the other. The fact that they leave your vision may not seem like a big deal… but functionality this disruption is a bit of a slow down and sort of ruins the use case for me vs just using even just one physical monitor.
We need tsmc's n3 or smaller, even with n5 the performance per watt isn't there yet
That's awesome I have an rog ally 🎉
What if we can get a modified xg mobile VR hook up? 🤔
Would be interesting, I suppose. It’s annoying that I couldn’t get a normal pcvr headset (DisplayPort) to output with the usbc port
Woof
Good old creepy VR chat 😅
Ok so I am not the only one who thinks it's just digital furries. Thrillseeker and Brad are sus. Not that there's anything wrong with that. 🙄
Does anyone know what is the app @4:24 ?
It's vrchat
@Dawooded VR Chat, is that a room or something in it ?
@@ChrixB it's a world idk which one but i've seen it before
It's an amazing world called "Treehouse in the Shade", even though I haven't touched the game since they put garbage anti "cheat" in there, it was still my home world for years.
@PearuArmasJ omg finally! Thank you so much, is it still there ?
First :)
You tried
I'm honestly so sick of the phrase "spatial computing" already and that people are eating it up so quickly. There is nothing to the concept past having windows up in VR. This... is nothing new. I have monitor arms for my computer. I've been doing spatial computing for almost a decade. Apple's pretty damn behind the curve.
Was (awkwardly) hopeful that Apple might show off what how their headset is great... and they failed to impress. I feel like enough people aren't getting the point that it is literally an iPad strapped to your face. An iPad with multiple screens. There is a vague potential for more, however aside from the resolution/clarity issues in most all current headsets, expecting developers to jump on trying to sell a program to 100k apple user's vs the quest's 20 million or whatever it is... Whatever else Apple is trying ta do, what they AREN'T doing is actually helping the ecosystem. Choosing to develop on a platform that has no users is just... ya. Not to mention going through the obstacle course that is Apple app approval. Meanwhile a number of headsets that are fit to compete with Apple's resolution/clarity aren't far off while almost certainly providing a larger userbase and more open development with more possibilities. And the potential for those competing headsets will only grow and grow as the Apple headset takes forever to come out.
There's also so much talk of productivity.... Exactly how much productivity can you accomplish on an iPad? Nothing related to coding. Nothing with any company that has any real amount of security software they require on their machines. Nowhere that requires the use of any real installable applications. How many people start their day by booting up their iPad to get to work? People just seem to be ignoring this entirely and blindly eating up whatever Apple say about how it's a productivity workhorse. FOR WHO?
None of this is likely to change any time in the foreseeable future. It's bad for any paying job. It's bad for VR. It's might be passable for stereotypical entrepreneurs who just need to be able to log on to Amazon website to see how their shop is doing. It's bad for anyone who thinks it's a great idea in invest anywhere from their own personal lives to millions of dollars of development and work teams into making apps.
I heard they were experimenting with allowing Mac applications on their headset, but I think we all know that isn't going to happen. Freely allowing mac applications instantly breaks their walled garden and devalues their app store by allowing companies a free route past their app store tax, god forbid allowing other companies to then make their own app stores for the headset. The only way that's likely to happen is if Apple implements the same walled garden approach. Maybe force Mac apps to require a license for installing onto the HMD? Sacrifice enough firstborns to go work an Apple's factories and you get a stamp of approval on your app to allow it to load... a middleground, but one that still appropriately refuses to allow the headset to simply work as a Mac.
Meanwhile, however, ever since Microsoft started talking about how they had such grand plans for VR I've been desperately awaiting a proper VR OS.... and it just hasn't come. So that's been frustrating. Apple's phone/tablet ecosystem and even Android's is so aggressively closed or overcomplicated vs the simplicity but freedom of windows. Meanwhile there's a Linux headset... but rarely do simple tasks not take hours/days in linux. Instead MS just continues to fail me.
Though I will add... Apple's announcement also proved that Meta made the wrong choice by not allowing some form of the Android marketplace to load on the Quest. I don't think people really understand how thin than line is, either. So much of an outcry about how expansive the "ecosystem" is and how it's just SO MUCH BETTER because of that and how it's set to trounce the pitiful Quest. The only real difference between Apple's HMD and Meta's as that Meta didn't allow it. If the quest had android support it would have more flat screen apps AND actually have VR experiences vs Apple's flat apps.
I would be very disappointed in Meta if they don't finally open those floodgates some time before Apple launches. Just... allow Android apps. That's all it takes.
Why do you think there would no users on the platform? It isn't shipping yet until next year and you are now confident that it will have 0 users. I've already seen developers trying to port their apps on the headsets.
Quality and specs, a handful of very expensive match the AVP on that and those cheaper ones have an asterisk or missing things.
And also, Da Vinci, FCP X, and LP X are desktop applications that are now on the iPad. Lightroom, Clip StudioPaint, Affinity products(Photo, Designer, and Publisher). There's even someone trying to port a simulator for astronomical objects to the iPad. And also FCP X is rumored to come on AVP.
It's a little bit shortsighted to make coding as the base. And also, re security software, they already do deploy it on the iPads. I've already have seen stories of companies publishing their app for iPad on their network.
And also, if you watch the dev videos, they try to encourage to go beyond the 2.5D windows they've shown in the keynote. There are multiple ways to make your app on AVP and it depends on the developers.
Android doesn't have that rich ecosystem of tablet optimized and professional apps compared to iPadOS. Not surprised because iOS users are more likely to pay for it.
Hey one error of computing is you...keeps showing up in my recommended...like a bug.
I love that you take these cash grabs seriously
XReal + Ant Crossfire 120 FOV lenses + Mic $ 4k cameras for head tracking and recording + side and front removable covers for full VR + Bluetooth and wifi connect for wireless connection to PC or Puck and/or wired connection. Everything is there. Just needs to come together.
absolute banger of a video.
Create listen on my way to work to work on horizon vids lol
All
This appl Var tech is getting me super interred in buying one now lol