Tyr | Norse God of War or Original Sky Father?
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- Опубліковано 16 січ 2024
- In this next episode of 'Deity Tracker' we explore the Norse god Tyr and ask if there was once more to the god in a theorised Proto-Germanic Pantheon?
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/ thestorycrow
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In this video we will look at what the One Handed God represents; his attributes as a War God, his association with the Wolf Fenrir and the events of Ragnarok. His role as the 'sword champion' and totem of Justice, Honour, Courage and Victory.
We will look at related deities in other Mythologies, such as Anglo Saxon Tiw, the Roman Mars, and the Celtic Taranis, Nodens and Nuada.
Finally we will look at the associations with the Tiwaz rune, the so called 'Victory Rune' in the Icelandic, Norwegian and Old English rune poems.
Everyones favourite one handed god! (Sorry Noodles)
For a T-Shirt or other merchandise with the 'Wolf God' emblem from the Sutton Hoo Ship Burial check out here:
www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/157...
To support my work as a folklorist, mythologist and storyteller, please consider making a small donation on Patreon:
/ thestorycrow
Apparently the link is sad. Could be operator error, but I'll double check my end.
The link isn't working to me either, says 404
I love your content! It's always so much fun!
should work now www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/157254875?asc=u@@Biiku_
thanks! @@bomaracev
He walks hand in hand with Odin the all-father
He is the son of Odin the all-father
And Odin has granted him eternal life
And in return his son loves him and want to do everything for him
Be the bow and arrow and let his father shoot him into what ever destinations he should so require
An heroic ideal maby, like Thor, Hercules, Alexander and Bjørn Ironside
Through this
A man will appear
He will shape earth and everything with it
He will now be known by a man
Who stood with God, who was God
Who became a myth a legend a hero
A God
I am a fan of Tiwes, whom I think was the original king of the gods before being replaced by Wotan. I also think thematically the god Odin/Wotan works better when he isn’t the chief deity.
Odin to me is the god of the fringe and the inbetween. He is the god of the forests edge and the space between the waking and dream worlds.
Tyr is to me the god of justice and courage and virtue. The god that stands at the center and leads.
Yes I would agree with all of that. Thanks for the input 🙏 🗡️ 🤚 🐺
I think Wotan became the Supreme God because he discovered language and the means of sharing information through writing (the runes). In discovering the runes, he paved the way for "advanced" civilizations to begin. Before this Tyr was the Supreme God of a more war like people who existed in smaller groups. They weren't bound by knowledge but by honor. Both are amazing and mighty Gods and I love them so much.
My 5yr old daughter and I really enjoy your stories. Thank you! 😊
Glad you like them!
Anglo-Saxon heathenry was certainly in an earlier state than the later Scandinavian version(s). For them, the goddess Frige hadn't yet been split into two goddesses Freyja and Frigga as the Scandinavians did, for example. Our sources for Anglo-Saxon heathenry, scant as they are, tend to be about 400-500 years older than the Scandinavian ones from what I recall.
I agree, it’s just frustrating how little record of it there is!
Some people think the Anglo-Saxon Freya was Ostara
A lot of Indo European sky gods are also gods of oaths . Jupiter is a god of oaths , this is why oaths were made in the open air or temples had an opening in the roof , so that the god would witness oaths .
Very true. Thanks for watching 🤚
This is absolutely my favourite channel right now. I really hope you get the recognition you deserve!
Wow, thank you! 🙏✨🐺
And mine.
I subscribed yesterday, looked through your videos hoping to find one about Tyr. And behold here it is!
BEHOLD and Praise the gods of chance! 🤣
Only joking.
No such thing as chance.
Welcome! 🙏✨🐺
Thanks so much for this video, Olly! Definitely helped me in my understanding of this often-overlooked god (I think he should be given more "light of day" in general, wink wink). I've never thought of the gods as "processes" before, definitely something I'll be stewing over. With all the complexities of myth, you always find a way to present it in a way I can understand. Cheers and a heartfelt thanks for taking the time to include my questions.
Absolute pleasure Jack!
And your Tiwaz / duir stave will be posted tomorrow. 👍✨
Cheers for the Celtic music suggestion too ☘️ ☘️ ☘️
This was excellent brother; the setting was amazing, quiet, relaxing. Your verbal delivery is on point. At face value, one can tell you’re a great story/history/myth teller.
I’ve always liked Tyr and felt he was a more prominent position in the hearts and minds of the native believers.
Great work, you have a awesome platform and delivery. Keep it up brother.
Appreciate that mate, thank you 🐺🙏✨
Cant believe i missed this video when it came out. You did such a great job. You never fail to deliver great, well-informed videos. Skål my friend.
I appreciate that my friend. Skål 🙏🐺✨
Thank you so much for all your hard work x
You are so welcome 🐺✨🙏
You must be so cold sitting there all that time so much appreciated love listening to you x
A good take on a complex pantheon going through societal changes partly due to the expansion of the Roman Empire. We do see more evidence showing Wodanaz as the chief god around 1900 years ago, rather than the most popular, and evidence of sky gods such as Zeus taking on the role of Storm God (eg: there are inscriptions calling Zeus "Zeus-Perkunas"). Like you, I feel either Tiwaz or Ingvi Freyr may have held the chief god position nearer the start of the iron age, their attributes align as you state, and if it wasn't for Tactius we would probably still think they held that position even 1900 years ago. As an aside Liberman's "Prayer and Laughter" is worth a read if you want to lean on etymology to help understand some of the Germanic and Nordic mythological evolution. Feel free to reach out if you ever want a chat about this or myth, I support many story tellers.
Hi Jon! Ahh, that’s some nice caveats there, thanks for the input. You make some cracking content by the way; always well researched and with great attention to detail. Not like me. I just wing it 😂
I’ll check out Prayer and Laughter, I hadn’t heard of it. Cheers. I do love disappearing down an etymological rabbit hole, but it’s mainly of interest when it’s informing mythology.
Thanks also for the offer mate, and likewise the same to you. I’m always open to collaboration. Storytellers, mythologists and historians necessarily tread a lot of common ground.
Keep up the great work 🙏👍
I grew up in the "listen with mother " era - really happy i found your channel. Thank you
Thanks for listening my friend ☺️🙏
Really really interesting stuff
🙏🐺✨
this post. there are many very smart, thoughtful and key insights in this. very well done.
Appreciated my friend 🙏🐺
subcribed, looking forward to more@@TheStoryCrow
Very good video, you make some excellent points, very informative and well presented. I hadn't seen your channel previously, but I'll certainly be checking it out after watching this. Keep up the good work, it's nice to see someone who knows what he's talking about!
Thank you my friend! I don’t always know what I’m talking about but that’s ok too 😂🤔 cheers for stopping by 🙏
I'll be stopping by again! @@TheStoryCrow
I’m obsessed with the potential of Lugh and Loki being connected.
Tantalising isn’t it? 😅
Lugh is such an interesting character, he could've been so many different dieties before reaching his form that we know today. I really liked how he was interpreted in the American Gods series and his relationship to Odin, it was kind of this dreamlike subconcious flow that is characteristic to myths (sadly the series deteriorated plot-wise and was cancelled)
American Gods was based off the book by Neil Gaiman and frankly they ended the series before getting to the best part of the novel. That really upset me @@_.stargazer._
In Astrology, Mercury travels closest to the Sun at all times.
Mercury rules Gemini & Virgo... communication & commerce.
The trickster, magician, joker & Aide.
Absolutely love ur presentations. Keep warm.
Of course! Cheers 🙏✨🐺
excelent video as always! it's so fascinating to find out how gods change and get absorbed or divided, makes you wonder how much is lost to history
also you have green grass already in England?! :0 we're knee deep in snow here in eastern Poland
Thank you. Yeah grass green all year. Except very hot summers. Heavy snow is pretty rare in southern England but it’s way below freezing and the ground is solid. Grass still green and crunchy though 😂
Story Crow i love your content. You have genuinely kindled a love for mythology ive never held before. You blend history and myth in a way that ive never seen. I adore it. Do you have any plans on covering indo-european languistics and similarities in deities?
That’s very kind of you I’m so glad. Yeah I think you need a bit of history to understand mythology and vice versa. Too much specialisation these days! I love etymology, when it informs mythology, but I’ll be honest linguistics isn’t my area. I will be covering Indian deities in the future though. I’m working on the Ramayana for a storytelling live show, but it won’t be ready for a while …
@@TheStoryCrow that's totally understandable. I appreciate and look forward to your every upload. I try to spread your channel around as often as this topic comes up. Please keep up the great work. 😁
Really appreciate that thank you man 🙏
Thou truly art an astonishingly powerful conveyor of knowledge, I stand awestruck by your radiance, truly. May your voice grow to unrivaled prominance that all that enthusiasm and excellence lent therein might shed its light across the great greyness.
Aye. In other words, superb stuff, dear fellow.
Well that is some effusive praise my good sir!
Cheers pal 🙏🐺✨
@@TheStoryCrow Tis my honest opinion, believe it or not. ...But don't let it go to your head. 😉
Promise I won’t. Just tell me I’m a bit of a muppet once in a while to balance it out 😂
@@TheStoryCrow Muppet.
The etymology always seems so curious to me. How, Tyr and Tor are not cognate, but Tyr and Zues are. And even then, it’s not simply from the last syllable of Zeus Pater. It’s this long and convoluted trail that goes from Dyaus to Zues to Tiwaz? 😂 I would lose my mind if I were an etymologist trying to follow this stuff. I do love to see it when it’s all mapped out though. It’s so fascinating the way language and story are like cultural DNA. I think it’s beautiful how these ancient stories seem to unify humanity, the way they do.
Proto Indo-European: deiwós
Proto-Germanic: ti:waz
Latin: deus
Proto-Indo-Iranian: daywás (Sansrkit Daivá, modern Persian Di:v. It now means demon in Persian and was so before Islam even, during the Zoroastrian era)
Proto-Celtic: de:wos (modern Irish Dia, a generic word for God like Deus and Daivá)
Proto-Balto-Slavic : Deiwás. Survives in the Baltic languages as Dievas in Lithuanian and Diews in Latvian. Also means 'god' here.
Yes, I don’t envy the etymologist, fascinated as I am when I see their work all mapped out. It’s a labyrinth! Cultural DNA... That’s good. I like that 👍
@@TheSwordofStorms ah thank you! This is awesome. It makes more sense to see that Deiwós was first and the rest came from that. I know that we eventually get our words for”Deity”, from this, but is it also where the word “Day” comes from? Since these are daylight sky gods?
I believe that is the case, yes
The Luwians also called their sun god Tiwaz. They called him Assu Tiwaz meaning “the good god”. This is cognate with Vasu Deva which is a name for Vishnu. I’m waiting for etymologists to point out that Shiva is just another version of Deva, Zues, Tiwaz etc. it’s clear the sky-father was a sun god prior to being associated with Jupiter (or Mars in Tyr’s case). Dyaus Pater was the day-time sun in the Vedas. People think he’s not worshipped without noticing HE IS THE ADITYA and the Aditya’s are just his 12 faces as he passes through the zodiac, hence why you see Vishnu with Garuda, like Zeus and his eagle and also Vishnu sleeping on Vasuki like how Zeus has his cthonic serpent form. Not to mention Vishnu as Narasimha the lion headed god while Zeus is god of the sign of Leo. Vishnu is also called Hari while the Lion of the tribe of Judah (connected with Leo) is named Aryeh. Jehovah is another way of saying Shiva, Deva, Dievas, Dyaus etc. if you say Shiva slowly like a mantra you can’t help but subtly say an O between the i and V making it Shi-o-va. Sound familiar??!
I was born on a Tuesday, have Germanic roots, have a problem with dogs and more often than not, have a propensity to play the role of peace maker, also end disputes sometimes good sometimes not so good.
Cheers Mate. 🍺🍻🏳🌈
I am a Tuesday child too.. of Irish/Cornish ancestry. Love dogs & horses, got bit by a dog as a young child & broke my wrist & nearly lost an eye on a horse lol
Greets from Glastonbury UK
Cheers for watching. I assume you’re a libra 🤔😂🐺✨
@@TheStoryCrow no I'm a cancer with moon in Taurus and Jupiter ascending.
@@ChristopherDimitriousPhanara Pisces sun, Virgo rising, Leo moon xx
Thank you.
You're welcome Frankie, thanks for watching, as always 🙏✨🐺
It's interesting that Odin was missing an eye and that Tyr was missing a hand, gods with missing parts, and how that compares to Celtic myth where you had Nuada abdicate the throne because he lost his hand making him imperfect and unfit to be king. Maybe the Celts would have thought the Germans weird for worship imperfect gods with blemishes.
I know it’s interesting isn’t it. Two different aspects of sacrifice, perhaps. Hand for honour and eye for wisdom.
I always wonder what stars were prominent in the night sky during the times of these wonderful tales. Tyr makes me think of Sirius the Dog Star. How it’s prominent and viewed as a bright therefore a strong star. After Ragnarok that star would have its death, Tyr will have his death slayed by the hound with his light going out. Thanks for another great video. Will you be possibly doing a folklore booklist in the future? I would love to know your favorite recommendations. Hope you & your gran had a lovely lunch!😊
Tiw is indeed connected with the Dog Star. Interesting eh? 🐺✨
A book list. That’s a great shout. Thank you. I’ll get on that. You guys have the best ideas 🙏
@@TheStoryCrow great! Looking forward to it :)
"Romans with their, nyaaahhhh" 😂😂😂
Look I couldn’t remember the word for testudo ok? 😂😂😂 🐢
This is one of my favorite topics to think about. How and why did Odin get elevated to chief god? I had never heard about the pre existing local god theory before. I think I have some good ideas of my own, about how it happened, but why it happened is a whole other mystery. What happened in their culture that changed them to place more value on a magical and “frenzied” Wild Hunt psychopomp like Odin? We need to be friends in real life so I can pick your brain about this stuff.
Yeah the wild hunt, that’s an enigma wrapped in a mystery, sautéed in a riddle. 😂😂😂
Sounds like you know your stuff man, great to hear. Perhaps we will meet at a random festival some time and can blabber about old gods 👍
He is also known as Ti here in Sweden.
Lot of places and landmarks in my home region of Närke, are named after Ti.
2 forts both named Tisareborg or Ti's Fort.
A lake called Tisaren or The Ti or just Ti.
And across the border between Närke and Östergötland, stretches one of the largest forests in Sweden: Tiveden or Ti's Wood.
Yeah the old gods pop up so much in place names once you actually start looking. In England Thunor and woden seem to be most popular based to place names, but tiw too.
@@TheStoryCrow Correction: there is one fort called Tistaborg, which still is named after Ti.
gonna have to watch this again! and stop drinking. or start
Try to do both at the same time!
Rather than the two deities being "eaten" by wolves, what if they turned into wolves themselves?
What if instead of two separate deities, it's a 2-Fold God -- and what if this transformation represents the Fall?
The theme of the King/Man turning into Beast/Animal appears in many places, even Abrahamic (Nebuchadnezzar).
I believe this to be the case. I also wouldn't take Snori's word as writ because the 4-legged Beast rises again, stronger.
I would posit the missing arm to be a crossroads allegory, where a choice was made. It seems the Beast trope is the LHP.
Tantalising thoughts my friend, thanks for sharing 🐺 🖐️ 🩸
Fab.
Hemidal would hit closer to a sky father since he does basically guard the skys, since he's in charge of Bifröst, and fathers the social classes of mankind. in Rígsþula that would make a bit more since, than Týr he more stands for bravery, strength, due to his sacrifice, germanic stories more speak of him as a war god and one of justice.
Asgard and the bifrost aren't necessarily in the sky. It actually seems in some sources that they're simply in an elevated location, like at the top of a mountain
Could be! There’s so much we don’t know. Thanks for sharing 🙏
@@draugadrottin so elevate someone through the skys to the next, and hemidal has control of that elevator, thanks for clearing that up with another perspective, if we are getting super technical the Christian source we all use, could be a mix of other stuff like the Bible.
In short summary, you need to read the poetic edda again.
it's my own UPG Tiwaz is a god of order and balance. i know there's a lot of historical theories about him that dispute this but i'd like to think i have a pretty good relationship with him and he's pretty chill tbh, very much oriented in ensuring that balance is maintained for the good of the community. i think a lot of that 'god of war' stuff is based in toxic masculinity misinterpreting history but again that's just my opinion. anyway, great video thanks a lot, love you bro 💖💖💖
Well, he’s been associated with war gods for a long time; at least 1000 years, before any ‘toxic masculinity’ stuff (although how people interpret him today may have a bit of that hey) however - I agree with you actually, I think you’re bang on. Order and balance is closer to the mark - reading between the lines. Gods are complex and change through time 😅 thanks for commenting and sharing your personal experience ✨🙏🐺🤚🌙
@@TheStoryCrow 💖💖💖
Re: Mercury (and Hermes etc) I was wondering the other day whether conceptually he is a bit like Karma? Something like a phenomenon of cosmic corrective actions that will raise the downtrodden as well as bring about the downfall of the overly wealthy.
I mean, God of thieves. Theft is not particularly moral is it? But in a Robin Hood way it could be interpreted as an effect of hoarding; someone’s going to want to steal it. A type of redistribution.
Fun Fact: The Rune of Tyr is also the Broad Arrow symbol used on ''Crown Property'' by the UK MOD to this day. Who can say how far back go its origins? Pre-Christian Saxons would be my guess, but I was never there, then.
Did not know that. Will have to look out for that one! Would have thought the othala rune would have been more appropriate but hey 😂
@@TheStoryCrow Othala Rune? I'll have to do some homework. I have not hanged my self from the Tree of Yggdrasyl so my Rune Knowledge is incomplete.
😂😂😂
It’s the inheritance , land, property, titles, aristocracy etc rune - according to some …..
But I’m no hanged man either
@@TheStoryCrow Perhaps there's a corellation between the concept of the Divine Right of Kings [to rule] and the King's War Materiel being Crown Property and under the aegis of the God of War?
Odin is a God of power he doubts that creation is fallen to earth to be the doubter of God.
🧙♂️🐺🩸✨🙏
Along with Tyr, I am a bigger admirer (follower? Worshipper?) Of Vor. I don't remember where or when I was introduced to her, but she seems to be the pragmatic goddess of wisdom that the others go to for sound council. I want to learn more about her but don't even know where to look.
I "percieve" her in trance and dreams as a person I talk to. If I made a video describing my experiences with her, would you be interested in seeing it?
I Would be
I Would be
I Would be
Absolutely! Please post it as a new comment here so I actually see it. I don’t see the replies always cos UA-cam doesn’t tell me.
Nuada Silverhand!
He’s the boy! 🤚🌙🗡️✨☘️
Do you know about the bock saga?
I do now. Interesting sounding chap.
The wolf represents greed
How it’s all devouring
🐺
Is the Narrator Jeff Stelling?
Yes. Yes he is.
Could not it be this theory in my head? I see Odin being the same as the Dagda, clearly having displaced the original norse pantheon as he would have done as the head of the Tuatha De Dannan displacing the proto Irish, therefore creating the basis for the mythology that we know now today as the Nordic one? I feel the evidence is in the correlation between him and the Migration Period.
Anything is possible. Interesting theory, thanks for sharing 🙏
I guess I’ll have to do a dagda video now 😂
@@TheStoryCrowsorry for commenting basically the same thing on two separate videos 🤣
Hey, I like reading people’s comments 🙏👍☺️
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Tuw sounds very similar to the Welsh for God: Duw
I ask “Pam fi duw” daily 😂
Oherwydd eich bod chi'n fachgen drwg iawn! 🏴🙏😇
@@TheStoryCrow 😂😂😂 ai you got me there!
I’m watching your video on the lady of the lake now and Im pretty sure I remember seeing your van parked up on the road between Abercrave/Ystradgynlais and Brecon!
In fact I’ve spotted it a few times around Wales (was a van driver), unless I’m mistaken
If your ever in the area again your more than welcome to use one of our houses to stay/clean/cook if needs be!
Ystradgynlais, best liberty caps about too 😉🫡
That’s very kind. Yes I do sally into wales quite a lot as I’m only the other side of the water. Love that country. And I agree with you about the libs. Only Dartmoor has em better 😂
T are the old fut for t.
The second stav Y used in the old fut are a big R,and in the new fut a small m,and has nothing to do with the letter Y.
The last stav R,are a small r in both the futhark. In western Norway atleast.
Reclaim otan from the warmongers. No to nota😢
I generally go with what’s most understood by most people today, however right or wrong it is. But I appreciate how much variation there is in space and time. Thanks for the western Norwegian perspective! And I agree too. Too much warmongering! (Is that a word?) 🐺🙏✨
Tyr's karma was dog maw.
True dat 🐺🐺🐺🐺😅
@@TheStoryCrow I hate to say it but I am ridiculously proud of that pun.
😂😂😂😂
You do a good pun it must be said.
@@TheStoryCrow thank you very much.
Sreng cut off Nuada's hand
That’s the Badger. Cheers for that 🤘
Can’t listen due to the lip smacking 20 seconds into the video
Oh well 🤣😅
Tell you what it’s a shame.
Because it’s a cracker of an episode ✌️🤷♂️
Imagine how much you might be missing out on my love, discomfort is an ally believe it or not.
(Except when it happens to me 😂)