Higurashi Gou/Sotsu is a Masterpiece in Concept Alone
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2022
- 14 years after the Visual Novel's conclusion, Higurashi makes a return in the form of a direct sequel. Is it a mere money grab, or does it expand upon what the original has established.
- Ігри
Yea when you said the show had excessive gore I was thinking the same thing. It almost felt like I was watching a dark comedy with the fountains of blood coming out of the characters bodies lol
Usually I try to take it seriously whenever media tries to portray the feeling of pain, no matter how unique the writing or presentation is, but this felt too ridiculous.
@@NeNeiSan Ryukishi explained that it was intentional that the deaths are ridiculous (especially the scene of the fork with Rika and Satoko or the scene with Oishi in the corridor who screams while running and hits the wall) A theatrical and delirious comedy with dark themes
@@freezy8461 is there a source on this? i heard via another video (by youtuber Bess) that ryukishi was actually surprised by the amount of blood and gore that was present in gou/sotsu
@@canariawing Yeah I've absorbed pretty much everything Ryukishi has said about the show and I've never heard anything about over the top gore being something Ryukishi intended, except to express how surprised he was at how over the top some scenes were. He did talk about how he wanted tragedy and pain to give way to comedy over time, which I think was expressed by the building sense of how _absurdly_ cruel and tragic things got in the Nekodamashi, and then later during the climax in the juxtaposition of the epic and vicious looping battle with the absolute immaturity of girls' argument. Again, that stuff was meant to be kind of funny and even a but cathartic. I'd say that to a degree that worked for me- that episode 14 of Sotsu was just so _stupid_ that it did relieve some of the emotional suffering I experienced leading up to it.
As for the gore in general, blame the director, Kawaguchi. In interview he talked about how he was aiming for a splatter-horror type genre. He talked about how staff laughed when they first saw the visual concept of the fight between Rena and Keiichi at the end of Onidamashi, and that _that_ was exactly what he was aiming for. It didn't work for me at all.
@@canariawing I swear I commented something super similar to this like 2 hours ago too, quoting things of interviews , etc but I don’t see my comment anywhere lol
There is that thing about Eua literally being The *Deus* Ex Machina of Sotsugo (like, Dlanor being The Ten Knoxes of Umineko) that leads to... Nothing?
The whole witch thing, the name drops on Ciconia and so on, are all things that can be intellectually interesting because they imengage in dealing with a mystery over multiple metanarratives, but it's Umineko stuff.
Higurashi is not Umineko, they are different in everything (especially on how they narrate a mystery).
In Higurashi's Gacha, Ryukishi07 came down from his dump hill to write at that time an interesting Higurashi X Umineko collaboration where they address the theme of tastes and evolutions of literature as it passes through generations or from individual to individual. It is a discourse consistent with the themes of Umineko and it is interesting to do it with the protagonist of Higurashi's gacha who is a later character. But because it was Umineko.
Higurashi can't afford overly elaborate metanarrative games, and especially you can't expect the viewer of Sotsugo to necessarily have to read Ryukishi's whole life for things that are not even consistent with the plot and use different worldbuilding.
It's the exact same problem Fate/Extra Last Encore had, where they didn't warn that it was a sequel to the psp game and without that it lacked all the background of the characters you saw and the themes addressed (which I still find to be a perfect closure to Kinoko Nasu's Cyber Buddhism Trilogy, but with questionable choices of exposure to the target audience on communication level)
That is completely true. Umineko and Higurashi took upwards of 100 hours to establish and bring their themes to fruition. As you said, the two are vastly different, down to their core, though I do think having them connect would be interesting to see and is doable. This was the perfect opportunity to do so, but was too ambitious to be done satisfyingly, especially in only "39" episodes. There is a gap that can be filled, but it needs a loooong bridge to do so.
>It's the exact same problem Fate/Extra Last Encore had, where they didn't warn that it was a sequel to the psp game
I don't think this is a correct assessment. The Umineko/Ciconia references are just teasers; Gou/Sotsu was never meant as a prequel/sequel to them, and reading any of them by no means enriches the anime or fills it's many plotholes.
Not sure if mentioned in the video since I'm gonna watch it right now, but the manga version (Gou and Meguri) seems to be doing pretty well so far.
This video is just about the anime. I do plan to make a separate video on the Manga, which I agree. The most recent chapter was very interesting! Excited to see how Wataakashi is handled!
@@NeNeiSan yeah, not really sure where it's gonna go but Satokowashi and Oniakashi have been pretty good so far.
@@joaocbcneto I'm interested to see what Tatariakashi is like since what happens in the Manga Tataridamashi, contradicts a lot of the anime's answers.
the blood and gore in gou/sotsu was absolutely ridiculous. people gave the original anime shit for how bloody/gorey and violent it was but i personally feel that gou/sotsu is worse. it feels like passione's only experience with higurashi was through the original anime and the actual message and feeling of higurashi completely went over their heads. higurashi isn't "wow look at these crazy anime girls killing each other in brutal ways!", it's about found family, friendship, and fighting against a hopeless situation alongside those you cherish most to persevere in the end
That's one of main notions I had going into it from the small amount of tidbits I had seen beforehand. Though I managed to get rid of it halfway through, that feeling crept up once again as I made it to Satokowashi. I understand what Gou/Sotsu tried to do, but wish it was true to the original while doing so.
@@NeNeiSan i had some hope for gou/sotsu originally based on how the second arc included all of those scenes where mion pretended to be shion as a way to more comfortably convey her feelings, and how they made sure to be explicit that it was 100% mion and not her twin sister like in the sound novels, but that all went down the drain pretty fast T_T
it's even worse when you consider that ryukishi was surprised by how bloody/gorey it was and it wasn't a part of his vision for gou/sotsu at all, but he didn't want to stifle passione's own vision for it so he gave them the OK. but even then i don't think that storyboards could capture just how much blood and gore passione would eventually end up using. i recommend watching youtuber Bess' post-mortem on gou/sotsu if not only to see sourced excerpts of just how surprised ryukishi was by passione's take on higurashi
i still enjoyed my time watching it and i really like the new version of "you" by dai that came with the ending. finding out this you -sotsugyou- was written by ryukishi himself made me cry haha
@@canariawing Watadamashi was probably my favorite for the reasons you mentioned. At that point I started looking at it positively for the most part. R07's involvement is what has confused me the most, because while I can see the vision he given all the ideas that show up, how they come together feels not like him at all. Thank you for the recommendation, I'll give Bess's video a look, it seems really in depth!
Even though I did not like the Gou/Sotsu for the most part, when "You" started playing, it brought tears to my eyes. Hearing play at the end was fitting, and made it all worth it in the end for me.
I really enjoyed this video and the points that you brought up. The very beginning of the video especially nailed what I was feeling when it became apparent that this was a sequel, not a remake. Higurashi managed to do something that very few series do - it managed to stick the landing and wrap itself up in a satisfying manner. I finished reading the story feeling as though I'd just eaten a full course meal and was ready for a long nap. It finished on an amazingly high note and though I was sad that it was over, I was happy with the way it ended.
The material that came afterwards, such as the Saikoroshi 'epilogue', the Miotsukushi alternate ending, and now Gou+Sotsu as proper sequels, have threatened that feeling for me. Any content that removes Hanyuu from the stage is already at negative standing with me, as I feel that immediately undermines the story that was told and the conclusion that was reached. I recently reread the ending to Matsuribayashi and had this feeling reinforced.
So at least for me, the concept of Gou and Sotsu as a sequel was not very welcomed right out the gate. But I was open to watching it and seeing what they would do, and taking what enjoyment I could from it. And to be fair to the new series, I did come away from it having enjoyed it overall. It just doesn't feel like it was worth the retroactive mud it threw onto some of the characters, and the series as a whole. I try not to let it taint my joy for the original series, but I'll admit my opinion of the antagonist in particular has soured somewhat. (On the upside, I came away with even more appreciation for Mion and Hanyuu)
I feel that completely. I was surprised when finding out Gou was a sequel, since the VN had answered all of what needed to be answered. I personally see it as a bridge between the original Higurashi and other WTC titles, as opposed to a pure expansion on Higurashi itself (Even though it did have a few ways of doing so).
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on it!
It's a sequel that most won't understand, and even those who do, may not like it. You have to really look at it through the lens of Umineko to see what's hidden between the lines. And surface knowledge wont be enough either. Even I wouldn't get it if I hadn't red other's opinions and conclusions of the more obscure themes in it. And the funny thing is, once you understand it all you see how perfect it is for the people that don't like it because... none of it may have actually happened at all in the first place, save for the last moments of the last episode. Specially if you consider Rei to be canon.
Overall, I like it a lot. I may be a bit flawed within the boundaries of Higurashi alone, but it's a great way to tie the series as a whole. Still, it needed just one more thing. Had they just touched upon the Logic Error (and maybe even have Rika and the antagonist work together to solve it) it would've been amazing.
That is one of the interpretations I had considering the finale. I feel tying in the unreliable narrator and "interpretation" approach is a thematic way to bridge Higurashi to Umineko. Even though I see it, I still feel there could have been more that could have been done to make it fit in a bit more naturally. Of course that's just how I feel towards it.
I may have missed it, what is the Logic Error that happened in Gou?
@@NeNeiSan It didn't, and that's the problem. Since they were pretty much giving a backstory for Lambdadelta, I was expecting they would touch on the topic, because she did mention a traumatic experience where she and Bernkastel were trapped in a Logic Error caused by Featherine who simply abandoned the game board once it happened, to the point that Lambdadelta often wonder if she is still trapped in it and just deluding herself into thinking she is not. It was the perfect opportunity to bring that up, even if just indirectly to not confuse the people that never red Umineko to that point.
@@VixYW That's right, I remember now! That would have made for a very interesting conflict. That just makes me more intrigued on how events would have played out if the story was handled in the vein of Ryukishi's other major entries.
I still wonder if the Meguri Manga will touch upon the meta-narrative side in detail.
@@NeNeiSan Hopefully so. Tho idk if they will split away the far from the anime. Then again, I had not started reading it yet, maybe they already did.
@@VixYW I think the logic error is something that was only very implicitly implied in the fact that Eua refers to Satoko as the various incarnations that most fans agree as being connected to Lambdadelta in Ciconia (Vier, LD3105, though the former looks more like Takano than Satoko), which kinda feels like some kind of tease toward where Ciconia's remaining phases might go with Lambda's origin story. Notably, Jestress is not mentioned, but instead Eua calls Satoko by "Mitsuyo". I would not be remotely surprised if Mitsuyo was the real name for Jestress, to keep on theme with the 34 naming scheme. When I consider all of this and what role Satoko actually serves to Eua, it leads me to consider that Satoko constantly running around every Hinamizawa fragment and writing her own gameboards while trashing any of the fragments we as audience members were familiar with that she viewed as part of Rika's 100 years of Endless June makes her pretty much a "jester", don't you think? Mei doesn't particularly help with this by giving us a card where Satoko wears a jester's outfit, or having Eua straight up contact her in one of the "good" St. Lucia timelines and instead of giving her the power of a looper she asks her to bring her churros like some kind of "errand girl".
One thing worth noting is that Lambda's "awful Hell" is actually Avicii, the Buddhist realm of interminable suffering (however, it's still seen as impermanent, despite the fact that anyone who is sent to the lowest level of Naraka is forced to be reborn over innumerable eons until they work off their karma, which has been calculated to take 3.4 quintillion years...yes, really) that people are reborn into if they commit one or more of the five Anantarika-karma ("Grave Offenses"):
Intentionally killing one's father.
Intentionally killing one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha (the community of Buddhist monks, nuns, and laypeople who try to attain enlightenment.
Now tell me, which one of these fits Satoko/Lambda? If you answered all of them...you're correct, lol. This means that Lambdadelta did in fact spend 3.4 quintillion years entirely working off her karma in Avicii...which based on this logic and the fact that Ciconia Phase One ends with an invocation of Canto 34 from the Divine Comedy (the moment in Inferno where Satan's corpse is revealed resting within the ice of Cocytus), seems to imply that Ciconia/A3W data fragments IS Avicii. This certainly fits the type of punishment that Satoko's Witch would have had to endure...in the human processing plant that gave us "Anomalous Spinal Cord Specimen LambdaDelta Sa-To-Ko".
Though for me it's even simpler than this. The real Logic Error might actually be the fact that Satoko AND Lambdadelta existed concurrently on separate planes of existence, even when in Umineko Tsubasa's Memoirs of the LambdaDelta, the Witch of Certainty is seen in the 1958 Matsuribayashi fragment where Takano first made her wish as Tanashi Miyoko. This piece of the meta continues to stump A LOT of When They Cry fans to the point where they stop trying to figure out how Lambda could exist in both Higurashi and Umineko altogether, but I find it fairly simple to reconcile this myself actually.
omg yesss when [redacted]'s motives were revealed, i was just groaning "JUST TALK TO EACH OTHER FFS" at my screen multiple times.
I was doing that exact same thing. It was even more infuriating since their entire arc in the original VN & anime was learning to open up!
I mean... she was already under the influence of [redacted] by that point. It would be impossible for her to do so. And all of that happened trough the lens of an unreliable narrator in the first place.
@@VixYW But they didn't meet [redacted] until they visited Hinamizawa again. They were already pretty miserable in St. Lucia before that so my frustration towards them not talking it through with Rika still stands.
@@PsycheTrance65 [Redacted] doesn't need to meet them to influence their actions. [Redacted] can rewrite reality at will (following some rules). The mere fact that that person was guided towards the temple storage after they returned to Hinamizawa proves she was being indirectly manipulated already. I dare to say even, she could be under control ever since she first touched the statue in the flashback in Kai.
@@VixYW The flashback where she touches the statue is Tatarigoroshi, actually.
Unfortunately, there's pretty much infinite guesswork involved in the question of how much she's herself in GouSotsu and how much she's [Redacted's] marionet. It's very much a vague backstage excuse for why people can act out of character, but few understand it and many don't even want to understand it.
There are many who like the straightforward interpretation of the story and claim it's entirely in character. GouSotsu as presented doesn't really leave much to argue against them with. But then there's Ryukishi's own comments outside of the show, like this:
ua-cam.com/video/2FlBfkyTBkA/v-deo.html
where he is very clearly stating that there's unreliable narration, or something along those lines, involved in how the culprit is depicted.
I used to like all this ambiguity in his works, but in his other works I've always found the straightforward interpretation also acceptable. This time I don't, and being left only with ambiguity regarding the 'truth' of something I am heavily emotionally invested in is nothing but frustrating. There is no catharsis.
I saw a lot of people saying "if you play Umineko then you'll get it!!" which, quite frankly, made me not want to play it at all. Not only that, but I found early on in Gou to be just...unenjoyable because of all the murder. It's weird to say, but in the original series every death felt like a true tragedy. It made me feel for the characters. I was invested in the characters and wanted to see them overcome it. But Gou was just disgusting death for no real reason that just made me feel bad.
Also the weird thing with Satoko getting some kind of split personality?? Which is?? Never explained?? And Teppei's redemption was legit the only good thing I found about it. Just a genuinely horrible person realizing they've been horrible, and putting in honest effort to fix their mistakes. Which makes it WORSE when it all goes to shit because!! God!! What was all the previous stuff even for!!
It was a mess. Despite the cool concepts, both these series left me frustrated. Sotsu at least was fun to hate-watch though.
I see where you are coming from. Each arc's climax showed how the one afflicted with Hinamizawa syndrome felt during their big moment, that only grows more depressing as they reflect on their actions in the Answer Arc's. It's very odd to explain how Gou/Sotsu links to Umineko's without divulging the into spoiler territory. The narrative of Umineko is vastly different, connected by a theme that is executed very poorly in this entry. I will say if you ever do read Umineko, which I personally recommend, to go in looking at it as if it's a standalone story. I understand it being difficult to disassociate the two, but they share very little similarities, despite their connection.
Would HIGHLY RECOMMEND watching the og 07 version does a better job in telling the story and has more episodes in developing so many characters that were either non existent or removed in gou and satsu
>I saw a lot of people saying "if you play Umineko then you'll get it!!"
Yeah. Don't pay them any heed. Metafiction fans are so mindbroken they frequently run into this habit of misconstruing garbage writing in the most charitable light possible and ascribing more depth to things than they warrant.
I watched Gou and Sotsu recently. Like you I felt empty watching Gou until around episode 14. It kept me interested for the most part through the end. I enjoyed Sotsu far more. Having completed the main 8 episodes of Umineko, I immediately realized that Gou and Sotsu exist to bridge the gap between Higurashi and Umineko: to explain the origins of Bernkastel and Lambdadelta. At that point I stopped watching it as Higurashi and shifted to watching it as an Umineko prequel. Through that lense I greatly enjoyed it. Perspective is everything.
That's fair. I began to notice that too, but there was still a few things missing for me to truly be satisfied. Like you said, it's all about perspective! Glad that helped you enjoy it!
I very much liked the "traditional cotton drifting" scene in Gou, yes it was over the top, but that sort of event felt like it was missing from the original despite the number of times the old practice had been mentioned.
Man when I watched it back in 2022 I could not help but felt disappointed
Like sure I like the banger op and ed
With the characters felt worse compared to the original series like certain plot points were either brushed off or weren’t there that I felt did a disservice
Like miyo takano or satoshi,certain minor characters that helped gave a pov of rika with her saying her own death and uncovering the substance used seeing that timeline even after rika death it still continue but gave mystery, mion and shion felt different in the og series while new one you would not know the detective who gave a role in the story and played a part in certain arcs
The magical aspect in revealing the time loop in the beginning I did not think was bad but then when I saw the series went on realize while not for me cuz I already knew it ruins the big suprize of rika able to time loop when I first saw it brand knew felt like a crazy plot twists that helped explain the different timelines but here you know but it reveals it so early that it removed one suprize from the story
when I was reading the quote from the director it read somewhere around it’s good for old and new fans
but when you see the arcs they tried putting you would have no clue who certain characters are which I felt had the best development in the og series granted sure it has less episodes but there had to been a better way to tell the story
Two thing while I enjoyed the dads redemption arc if that arc was remove entirely would not make much of a difference cuz all it did sure it showed she was bad but that was obvious that it sorta wasted time
Last thing while aside from butchering many characters with barely any development series made me dislike satako as a character like she wanted to make rika stay cuz she can’t study kinda wack
They sorta resolute the story even though rika was traumatized by satako I just don’t buy it
Hope if they ever bring back the series put the og director who made the 06 or get a good director it did such a disservice which suck cuz when I heard about it I was so hype to watch it but when I came to finish left disappointed that I went to sao and felt more satisfied in watching and finishing s3
If I ever give a recommendation of a horror anime it’s gonna be the 06 it has more episodes either way but the vibe is nice the new art style not bad just the way it told its story ruined it for me
Just remembered they have the dbz fight oh god why was cool when I watched it but didn’t make sense for me or not satisfying as it did not fit the story
I will say that the one good thing that Higurashi SotsuGou did for me was introduce me to the Umineko visual novel series and because of this series, I was able to read and experience all 8 of its episodes. That and a few banger opening and ending themes that SotsuGOu brought to the table...that's about it for the positives unfortunately.
I enjoyed this series for awhile up until it was revealed that Satoko was the mastermind and then it became obnoxiously obvious. Rika was retraumatized for no reason. Sure she should have listened to Satoko's doubts about going to St. Lucia and she did try to help her friend but Satoko turned her down each time. It pains me how this series could have gone so much different and been better and yeah you could have done a villain Satoko and made it work...however, it didn't work here. I won't go on and on but I will say that I am disappointed with Higurashi Sotsugou as a whole. i don't consider them canon. I hated how Rika and Satoko were treated along with the rest of the Hinamizawa game club cast. I feel like they should have had a part to play in the bigger story as well. Overall, this series was very disappointing to me.
That's exactly how I feel. It had potential, but just couldn't land all of it's storybeats in a way that felt natural. The Manga adaptation, Gou/Meguri, does have some improvements when it comes to characterization and the mystery as a whole, but does bring some problems of its own. Nevertheless, I believe it is way better of an experience with interesting twists in the latter half.
Even with the show's constant retreading of material we've been through as an audience already, it was still mildly entertaining, specially since it came out during a time where there were still very few shows like it, and it's cathartic conclusion added up to the experience, but after watching this video, I gotta say that they simply did what the series is known for at a surface level, and tried to conjure something unique that didn't have it's intended result.
All things considered, I still think this is a worthy addition to the series even after the original 2006 show and Kai.
I know what you mean, seeing the club member's chemistry, mixed with the mystery of the reoccuring events made Gou interesting. It was just the answers behind everything that killed it for me personally.
Even though it didn't quite live up for the potential it had, it's good to see that there are people like yourself who enjoy it for what it is!
I feel like if I watch this video my opinion on gou and sotsu will heavily change
I am mostly negative in the video, but it is just a rant. It's not a complete breakdown/analysis type, just my own feelings towards it that you may completely disagree with.
If you don't want to risk harming your perception of it, I fully understand!
Although I am interested in seeing some of Gou/Sotsu's good qualities, so if you have anything to share regarding it, I'd be happy to hear!
I haven't finished gou yet but ive already been spoiled and so far its just been to hard for me to warrant finishing the anime, I love the Visual Novel it means so much to me and I resonate with its themes so much but I have very strong opinions on the anime adaptations I did not for the most part enjoy them it felt so tonally deaf from its source material while delivering what I believed to be a watered down experience so when I heard the negatives that people have been saying about gou/sotsu I hesitated watching it cause I didn't wanna see Rika experience that pain again I didn't wanna see her go through that. But I convinced myself to continue because Higurashi while I think shouldve stayed finished years ago with its og vn and anime does make sense to open its story once more aslong as it stays true to its themes while exploring new boundaries, so I wanted to give it a chance but the first five episodes kicked in and I felt the same mistakes being repeated by the Deen adaptation especially with its gore, it just seems so parodied like its some sick joke. But when I heard the spoilers for the antagonist and what they did, it hurt me like it really did since they were my favorite character in the story with one of my favorite respective arcs so when I heard what they did, idk it just sounded so mischaracterized, in my mind it sounds like something they would never do especially after reading the things they did for rika in the past, I wanna understand why they did it so thats the only reason im gonna finish it but I feel that the answers they're gonna provide me are not suffice enough for me to justify or feel satisfactory that I come out enjoying it, im scared of it and have lost hope for it. I don't think ive ever felt this way for any media ever, im a really optimistic person I hope for the best and love to be surprised by it and take some sort of idea or theme that I could resonate with it when i finish but I won't that I feel like I will be unsurprisingly disappointed long before I finish it.
Sorry for taking a bit to reply!
Yeah... It doesn't get much better and is as you have already said, feels increasingly tone deaf and a parody of itself. I tried to find things I liked about it, but only found it to diminish where the original left off. Everything from character development to even the original morals were trampled upon in a way that feels unnecessary. There is some interesting ideas that are played around with that could have given some worth, but the execution feels so hollow and contradictory to everything before. This is especially for the antagonist whose motives are very shallow and backtracks on their development.
Usually, even if I don't enjoy something will encourage someone else to try it out to see if they enjoy, since you never know. However, this is one of those that I recommend to stay away from especially if you cherish the original. One of the few anime to get me somewhat frustrated as I watched it unfold. If you are still watching it, I do hope you can find something you can take from it. Hopefully it can break your expectations into the positive, even slightly.
@@NeNeiSan After Finishing it, I just couldn't get it, I kept questioning what was the point, its concept had so much potential to be something worth telling but it falls flat from the beginning with its simple mystery structure that parallels the question and answer arcs but it didn't, they was never any question that needed answers as soon as the first season ended you just needed to think for more than one minute to get it, it fails in being a suspenseful mystery it, doesn't have anything to say that wasn't already said in the original story it backtracks on all the characters developments to create a artificial mystery, Satoko's motives are so weak and flat it feels like its trying to rewrite her completely its not satoko it detaches itself from the story its a "witch" thats their excuse for the whole thing, she doesn't get punished at all and everything is just so convenient like why does rika all of sudden conveniently remember satoko shooting ooishi, why does teppei and rina reform so fast over a couple of past memories but the main club seemingly forgets the things they learned from their past fragments, the main club are barely of any importance they just used as a plot device they are characters they are chess piece to torment rika for eua and satokos amusement, none of it makes and sense and it wants to seem so smart, the biggest fuck you for me was the final few episodes especially the big fight between rika and satoko it just turned into a shitty shounen episode without any of the weight, its a fight for characters you dont care, about a conflict you dont care, and a conclusion that feels so fake they didnt earn anything they didnt fight for anything it was all meaningless, the only positive thing i can say is that i liked the artstyle and the actors did an amazing job and that this made me appreciate the source material a whole lot more but I for the life of me cannot stop thinking about this show, ive seen so many bad shows so much garbage, but this tops it. This is the worst anime I have ever watched I hate it, because I care I love higurashi and to see its legacy digged up and trampled on frustrates me this story means so much to me and watching gousotsu was the only show to ever hurt me so much like it did, I wish I never seen it but im thankful I did cause it just reinforced my love for its visual novels, but god was it so much wasted potential
bit of a late comment but the problem with Gou/Sotsu for me is that on top of Sotsu completely failing any bit of narrative sense Gou created, they both filled the stereotype that Higurashi is nothing more than some overly gory series
That's one thing I, and it seems a lot of other people, really disliked about it. Any death that happened in the original series felt tragic and horrowing, but a lot of the time in Gou/Sotsu it really just feels bland.
I actually enjoyed Gou, and found sotsu to be a quite bad after the first arc
the problem they encountered (I think) was that there was a lot of rumour of it being a remaster and not a sequel
in addition, the original project was clearly inferior in terms of animation, lip-sync and was old, therefore the show had to be accessible to person that never watched the original
concerning the gore part, I absolutely agree
while the original had it horror built up with tension and the "you know it's gonna explode, you just don't know when or how", the sequel base their horror on the "it is gonna explode very soon, you don't know how much it will" which is very different
i found the watanagashi on rika scene especially heavy to watch, since it is. along scene showing you every bit of intestine.
yet, Gou ends on the note that rika is now being hunted rather than pushed around by fate, which honestly could've been better explained, and, this is the faillof sotsu
sotsu shows you (apart for the first arc) the same thing gou shows you, meaning you've already seen most of what's shown
and then, there's the climax which to my point of view, ruins the entire sequel.
it is completely breaking the belief of the viewer, since none of what's displayed have been shown possible beforehand, making it look like complete nonsense (even though I would agree it is visually pleasing and holds some good idea)
would they have focused more on new arcs and make the old ones diverge sooner I think the show would've been way better
(still watched both of them and could watch them again)
Kind of irrelevant, but have you played the visual novel White Album 2?
I have net, although White Album 1 & 2 are on my list.
@@NeNeiSan
1 is good. 2 is masterpiece.
UMINEKO SPOILERS
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I believe that Gou and sotsu are a fanfiction of the original events of higurashi written by Featherine. This interpretation has allowed me to greater appreciate the sloppy moments. It feels almost like an uncanny parody of itself. In my opinion, the biggest hint towards this is the fight scene at the end of sotsu. It was out of nowhere and all over the place. At the end of Umineko when LD and Bern are fighting, featherine claims "I've always struggled at writing fight scenes"
That's an interesting theory! It does feel like something Featherine would do, though with Eua being apart of the equation does bring some questions. Really wondering if Ciconia's phase 2 would touch up on this at all.
I really like your interpretation, which I also think makes the story more bearable. The ambiguity of WTC's meta elements does make a lot room for interesting discussion sand interpretations like this!
There's also this aspect that no one's talked about: at the end of Higurashi, Ryukishi07 implored people to write their own ending to Higurashi, since he can't be sure his ending is the best one for everyone.
With that context, it would make sense for Gou/Sotsu to be Ryukishi07 creating a canon "fan ending", by having the in-universe writer be Featherine while the IRL writer are the people who wrote the anime. That's why Ryukishi07 didn't want to be too involved in the anime: he wanted a true canon fan ending, so he couldn't put too much input into it without it just becoming his own work.
I think Ryukishi07 is the type of person to do something like this, and it would definitely explain why he saw the anime go in a completely different direction than he outlined, yet didn't object to it.
@@JohnSmith_. I absolutely agree and share the same opinion!! It's kinda crazy to see someone else put that into writing
>metafiction fan gaslights himself into liking sloppily written cashgrab sequel because (3deep5u) reasons
Lol.
@@alternateperson6600 literally me
The issue with Higurashi Gou and Sotsu are indeed with their execution, and I might get crucified for saying this, but the issue was always that, with everything Ryuukishi makes.
Higurashi often felt like a fluke when compared to everything else that came after it, in terms of both Visual Novels and anime. It worked, but only when stripped of its details. People often forget the boring and the contradictory aspects of a piece of media, but once you are aware of it, there is no going back. Enveloped in that sort of feeling I say that the original Higurashi, while good, it also came short on the execution aspect in many of its arcs. It always could have been tied better together and people's motivations and actions could have been better defined and explained. Heck, reading all the supplementary material makes Mion one of the most complex characters out there, but even that is clogged by weird choices made by the author.
And it often comes to that. The author. Ryuukishi always had his own style, and I don't blame people for liking it, but praising him for it and ignoring his mistakes isn't the way to show your appreciation for him. I started from a position of absolute love for all of his projects only to realize years later that all of them contain the same flaws. While varied, they can all be summed up with this. The idea was extremely good, but the execution subpar. Some of his ideas are even harmful to certain groups of people, but that comes in his other projects, not Higurashi.
And I would like to keep it just to Higurashi for this comment.
I didn't have any issues with the excessive gore, since it can be explained by an unreliable narrator, and the direction of the first few episodes, but since the 4th episode of Gou, I couldn't bring myself to take this show seriously as I did with the previous ones. I always approach these as murder mystery novels, where I try to solve them before the detective. Ryuukishi himself made me look at them this way, but alas, his own teachings worked against him on this one. Here, the mystery here was skin deep, and the characters mere caricatures of their former selves. So much so I immediately thought to myself "Ah, he doesn't understand anymore what made the original great." and then, another, more intrusive one "Perhaps he never did."
The original Higurashi might have been just a fluke. There were plenty of elements that seem to be nothing more than cop-outs from a mystery novel perspective that I became semi-convinced that this man makes his mysteries first, adds as much bullshit to them as possible, and then tries to find convoluted ways to answer them. It felt like an analogy to his Umineko Chiru, Chapter 6, bathroom. A man trapped, his only way of escape nonexistent.
All of this might just be my own imagination. Maybe I just changed and I want to find flaws in the things I once loved. Who knows?
In the end, it all comes down to the perception of flaws. When They Cry contains some of my all time favorites, and though I acknowledge the hiccups in prose, plot progression, characterization, etc. I couldn't see some as flaws as they haven't hampered my experience, even though I can see why they impacted others.
A work being "perfect" is impossible. No matter what it is, there is going to be objective flaws that can be picked off it's bone. There is always going to be better ways plot points could have been explored. Character arcs and motivations that could have been more sensical. It all comes down to what the individual expects and wants, compared to what they get. I personally had no qualms with some of your aforementioned points of the convoluted mysteries, because in a way I enjoyed how even though my own theories weren't even close, I could understand and accept them. Even then, the same "problem" might persist in Gou, but because of the context turned a like into a dislike.
There is no wrong way to experience fiction, but because of that, I feel that's what makes discussing it enjoyable.
I appreciate the in-depth perspective!
can you elaborate on some of the cop-out elements for me. I agree with alot of what you are saying.
Higurashi is great. If you didn't enjoy it that's your own fault not the fault of the creator.
>unreliable narration explains Keiichi surviving 40 stabbings to the chest
The cope...
dont take serious Gou/Sotsu is comedy yandere anime (for me) just laugh in chair for absurdity like some witch... yep laugh many time to some episode....
Some scenes were unintentionally pretty funny, I agree.
Honestly, I feel like Higurashi Gou and Sotsu are sorely misunderstood and, at least to me, explain and expand concepts and characters that we as fans never even realized were left unanswered and open to further interpretation. I also find it highly ironic that a series like Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni that is severely misunderstood by the public gets a sequel series that is sorely misunderstood by the fans. I was very pleased and satisfied with how both Gou and Sotsu tied into the main canon of Higurashi and how it plays around with familiarity and subtle clues to new material in a way that is enticing to both new and old fans alike. I actually stayed away from both Gou and especially Sotsu for a long ass time simply because of what people on the internet had been saying about them sucking or being disappointing and, after taking a risk and trying to see if I could make sense out of all of the criticisms that I'd heard thrown against both of them, I was literally completely baffled at the end of Sotsu at how other people besides myself didn't appreciate Gou and Sotsu for what they succeed in doing with flying colors in my opinion. I found the expansions on all of the characters' that we've all grown to know and love genuinely well thought out as well as gut wrenching at times. I also completely understood how both Gou and Sotsu explained the subtle to more obvious changes in both plot and character elements as being consistent with one of the main themes of Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni in that you never truly understand your friends as well as you think you might and how you may not like what they turn out to be in the end, which is why Gou is literally playing with both new and long time fans expectations of the characters and story beats to lure you into a whole new way to understand just what exactly is truly going on in Hinamizawa and the people in it that you thought you finally understood all of the way through and I found that Sotsu did a commendable job in explaining why these subtle to obvious distortions in both story and characters in a way that totally makes sense if you look hard enough and are fully familiar with all of the lore and plot of Higurashi and are willing to stomach things about these characters that we all thought we knew and makes an insanely ballsy, and I would say completely successful, attempt to make the audience members brave enough to explore further into the subtext of the lore and characters of Higurashi question if they really knew the true feelings and thoughts of these characters and their motivations for doing what they do in the first parts of Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni at all in the first place, which is totally something that Higurashi has always done and challenges both new and long time fans of Higurashi to be able to stomach and understand how even the smallest changes or errors in these characters' words or actions can literally breed misunderstanding and eventually contempt between them. Those who have seen every part of Higurashi and studied it very thoroughly will know what I'm talking about. At the end of the day, Higurashi has always been a tragedy about overcoming misunderstanding and hate and I absolutely love how both Gou and Sotsu completely recontextualize what that means for the overall series and I fully believe that, if you give it a fair chance and look hard enough for yourself, you'll see that too.
Most people just aren't classy and high IQ enough to appreciate Higurashi and Umineko and instead of accepting their flawed inferior personhood, they blame it on the creator saying, "Oh well it just wasn't that good."
Or maybe they're just not as autistic as I am. I watch train videos for like 3 hours a day I think I have autism idk.