"You can't legislate morality" is a true statement, it's just come into misuse. What it actually means is that you can't *convince* people of moral truth by passing laws. In other words, it's a different way of phrasing "the government isn't the church." The job of bringing moral truth to people is that of the church, while the job of enforcing proper behavior in accordance with moral truth is that of the government.
Man I love your teaching man. You make doing right so enjoyable. You uave helped me see scripture so clear. I pray for your growth. Your funny too!!lol
It amuses me when people use the Roman's passage to tell people to support the political figure they support, yet the same people never want that to apply to them for people they don't support. Use the verses or don't, but you can't pick and choose.
1. What of Christians pursuing political careers? There's a precedent for continuing in the area you're already in but what if you're not already in politics/the gov't? 2. Sin is inherently morally wrong. How do you draw the distinction between legislation that imposes religion and legislation that stops sin? 3. (Relevant-ish) Galatians 6:10 and nepotism. Could you shed a little light on that? I hope my question makes sense.
He is making a lot of sense. Only if people would study and not wait to be fed like a baby. I read a lot of comments on spiritual things, I study a lot, I try to teach what I know and give books, chapter and verse. There are many verses in the Bible on one particular subject. That's why we are to search the Scriptures. I love his explanation.
If you look at what an "Established church" is you will find the churches in Europe which are funded and "owned" and run by the state, Pastors are state employees and the church buildings are owned by the state, not the local church members, and the buildings are empty most of the time. As a whole Europe is post Christian due to this. In the USA churches are not part of the state and as such either live or die on their own, this means that the pastors and the local members must support the church and most American Churches are alive and if not fully well in today's world they are not dusty empty buildings, that most of Europe's are.
It is true that privatized churches have more butts in the pews... but as you said, that certainly doesn't mean they are 'well'. The USA is post Christian because our churches don't always serve their purpose even if they're well staffed and attended.
Ty. You made it easy to understand. I’ve been conflicted. Daniel, Joseph, the centurions experience! Great teaching brings clear understanding. Thanks for the Bible based perspective. 👊
This is a difficult topic to teach, but I think Mike did as good a job as you can. There are so many exceptions in scripture on the topic of governmental authority. We in America also forget that our current system - a democratic republic - was not the norm during the time the Bible was written. We project our current structure onto the Bible and we therefore wind up in error.
Please Pastor Mike can you make it simple for me. My question is are leaders in politics who are clearly anti God apointed by God? If they are not, do we submit to them?
40:00 The vast majority of laws have little to do with morality. Probably about 99% of laws fall into the nothing to do with morality category. Don't murder, don't steal, don't rape, don't assault, don't defraud. Those are the laws that deal with morality. You can maybe come up with another half dozen possibly. Everything else is nothing to do with morality and is simply "because government says so"
Pastor Mike you are a good person, a good teacher, and a man of God. I do agree that abortion is a bad thing but so was slavery, both are and equally bad. Slavery was also just as bad as the holocaust, God bless you
How do you handle the passage where Paul resists being freed from jail and told to move on? He declared that his rights as a Roman citizen were violated and refused to be released and sent away without accountability.
There are all these exceptions to the rule due to so many other examples in scripture. Would this not mean there is a contradiction in Rom 13? Why did Paul blanket over these exceptions as if there were none?
The government bears the sword to punish evil, but the government doesn't get to define evil. If you understand God's definition of good and evil, then you will know when to resist or submit to the government. Yet, Paul does say if you endure being unjustly punished by the government, you will have great reward. Thus, there is a difference between rights and rewards. Peter told Ananias that he had the right not to give his money to the church, but he would only have heavenly reward if he gave his money (and for good reasons). Jesus says a man has a right to divorce his wife if she commits adultery, but he would only have a reward if he forgives and stays with her (even then, Joseph was considered righteous for sending Mary away quietly and not wanting to shame her, rather than forgiving her and staying with her.) Furthermore, no one had the right to eat the showbread in the temple, yet David did not sin by eating it because his right to live overruled the prohibition, given he was starving and there was nothing else to eat. However, eating from the tree of knowledge was inexcusable because there were plenty of other things to eat and no desperation factor. Thus, once you understand the purpose of the Law, then you will understand when it's acceptable to break it. God commands Jacob to let Him go while wrestling with him, and then rewards Jacob for not listening. Jesus says a slave only does what he is told, and thus, doesn't really know what his master is all about. He called the disciples "friends" because He revealed everything to them and they were willing to question Him.
When it comes down to capital punishment, the government does have that right, but we must also remember that justice without mercy is not real justice. Jesus said: "...be merciful, even as your Father in Heaven is merciful." When you can find a time when killing is truly merciful to everyone involved, then you can call it justice. Until then, the one who uses his authority to punish shall be accountable to God.
Did you allude to the Seven Mountain Mandate? I also disagree with that mandate. Like what you said, the bible says, Christians shouldn't try to control the gov't. Can you do a video on the Seven Mountain Mandate?
A theocracy requires something no human can provide. A God who makes a direct covenant to govern directly. The NT is about changing the heart of the individual who will apply God's principles no matter where he or she is. This is not a Theocracy
Mike, great post. I was wondering if you'd be able to do a video specifically addressing how Christians should be responding to the government imposing restrictions on church gathering during the COVID pandemic? In your video you touched on "not feeling compelled to speak out against non-moral issues", but there has been a lot of 'corruption' regarding the information around COVID which is impacting everyone globally, but also the church in how we gather, and it ripples out and affects how we minister to the world. Therefore, I'm wondering if these restriction are now within the realm of "moral issues"? I understand it's a complicated issue, however, many Christians are saying different things, and I think you can bring a good biblical perspective that can serve many of us who are sincerely seeking what the honourable thing is in view of submission and honour to God. Thanks Mike.
If the restrictions are targeting just the church, the church should speak out and challenge government. If the restrictions include mosques, synagogues, clubs, restaurants,corner stores, etc... to help in curving a virus, there should be no uprising from the church. They should humbly submit and find other means to exhort one another.
Great lecture if you accept God as the only 'true' authority to rule over others. I gather from this that a Hitler did not have 'true' authority because his authority came from "mob rule", intimidation, threats, and power. Christians, as a group, then have no obligation to follow. I have no problem with addressing just American history and values, instead of saying this affects countries worldwide, simply because we are still the only country not based on authority of government, but rather the authority of God as expressed by Christianity. Christians, as a group, believe in the freedom of conscience. This means as long as you accepted certain general precepts of God's Moral Law, (honesty, don't murder innocent people, don't steal) you are in moral agreement with our founding. Atheists are welcome! We don't outlaw atheists because the freedom of conscience comes from God. This is the first freedom, because if is the first gift of God, choice. God wants us to have free will. If you wish to eat the apple, the apple is there for you to eat. If you don't wish to eat the apple, don't. Freedom of conscience, is loving God, to allow others to not believe in God. That freedom came before the first government was ever created by man. It is not dependent on government. Freedom of association, right to life, and the right to prosper through ownership of private property. ( morally building wealth through work) come from God not government. Government only recently discovered these rights from God as mankind has discovered other God's natural laws of the universe, i.e. gravity, motion of planets, shapes create 'lift' to fly like a bird. Great lecture.. love the message.. cool.. sweet... thank you for UA-cam video. I'm including it in the curriculum of a home school course on how the Bible affected our America.. she's still the only country to be based on the Bible.. period. Yea! Thank God..
We are going to be under a theocracy when the governments of man become the governments of God and of his Christ, but until then I wouldn't trust anything man and his so-called wisdom has to offer.
Regarding capital punishment, it has been proven that a percentage of those who were on death row, executed, were later, after the fact, proven innocent. In addition, certain groups are more likely to receive harsher sentences and more like to be sentenced to death than other groups. Also, by all means, if warranted, lock someone up, even for life for they may need a life in prison to think on their crimes and for they Holy Spirit to move them to repent. But the dead cannot repent. If only we were as vigilant in calling out domestic violence, rape culture, child abuse, oppression of the poor and working poor as we are when I comes to abortion, wow, what an impact for justice and the cause of Christ we would make. I'd wager alot of the abortion we see would be prevented if we made concerted to address these other issue of abuse and oppression.
European justice seems to say....20 years is enough for most crimes, and the death penalty is not even considered.....and the treatment seems to be more humane....which may be enough reasons to actually to study this issue, a little closer to see if there system has any merit....
From nearly the very beginning I see a huge hole in this argument of Christianity can’t be a theocracy, because if a theocracy does occur in a nation then surely according to the same logic that God establishes all authority, then that means God has ordained said theocracy in that particular nation and raised whatever governing body over it, even if it’s a Christian one.
1. It seems that every "believer" (Old or New Testament follower of the LORD) who was in the State (the government) was either forced to be there (Joseph, Daniel, etc.) or was already there when they first believed (the Centurion, soldiers, various other people in the New Testament). 2. The State taxes, definitionally, and that's theft, definitionally. 3. Therefore, my best understanding of the Scriptures is similar to the pre-300 AD Christians, that we almost always submit to government, pay our taxes (as we are commanded to), and to not seek the power of the State if we can avoid it. Why? Because if we endorse taxation, then we are personally responsible for the State's theft. In fact, if we endorse any other evil thing the State does, and it will do other evil things, then we are personally responsible for those evils as well. 4. Taxes are a moral issue, in that they are theft. Theft isn't as bad as murder, granted, but it's still a moral issue. 5. Yes, Genesis 9 does bring about government, but not necessarily the State (the thing that taxes and claims a monopoly on the use of force in a certain place). In fact, God's preferred method of governance was commanded in the Torah and seen in the book of Judges up to 1 Samuel 8. There was no taxation as far as we can tell. And, in 1 Samuel 8, the evil of asking for a King (the State in personal form) was explained, including the punishment of taxation and various forms of enslavement. 6. Thank you for noting several exceptions to "obey government"! Most who preach on this include none or only "don't do evil things". But, there are more exceptions: The best example would be Abram's fight against the 4 kings (who were all authorities). They had kidnapped Lot while fighting really bad people from Sodom and Gomorrah. Abram got his men together, attacked them, and defeated them, rescuing Lot. Then Melchizedek blessed Abram in his victory. The 4 kings never required Abram to do anything sinful, and Abram didn't just disobey their authority, he attacked them, and was blessed by God for it! Rahab disobeyed the authorities of Jericho when she hid the spies and allowed them to escape. She was directly blessed by God for this, an ancestor of Jesus! Jehoiada committed treason by hiding Joash from Queen Athaliah and crowned him king. Elijah (I'm assuming) disobeyed Ahab and Jezebel when he slew the prophets of Baal. Ahab called him “the worst troublemaker in Israel”. One might say he was a prophet and doing anything else than what he did would have been sin. 7. Lastly, and this is only for Americans, there's definitely an exception for certain direct rebellions, and that it's right there in the founding document of the country, the Declaration of Independence. If the State becomes bad enough, we can legally rebel. If the State claims otherwise, then it has violated its own chain of authority and it's the thing that's rebelling. I only note this because it's technically true, not because Americans should abuse this. It's almost always the right thing to do to obey the government, regardless of what it looks like or says. 8. The role of government isn't to legislate morality (in general), it's to "punish evildoers" (seek justice). Justice (repayment, an eye for an eye) is a small part of morality, but it's not nearly all of it. It's important to distinguish between justice and morality, because lust is immoral but there's no (human) justice to be sought. Confusion about this point has seen Christians throughout time calling for laws attempting to force unbelievers to act "morally" against their will when no human justice was needed. This makes unbelievers hate us and puts us in the place of judging those outside the Church.
While your pouring through the scriptures to see what may be included in this discussion, you might want NOt to leave out the fact that NO GOOD soldier of Christ Jesus entangles himself/herself in the affairs of man. Man's government including this one is the affairs of man, we are to have NOTHING to do with it. Separate yourselves Holy/completely onto God, and TRUST NOT man, end of the story.
Mike mentioned the examples of Joseph and Daniel in the Old Testament. I would add examples in the New Testament: When Jesus visited Zacchaeus, he didn't tell him to stop working for the government; he rejoiced in Zacchaeus' decision to stop cheating people and to pay back more than what he had cheated. When the Roman centurion came to Jesus, Jesus marveled at his faith, but did not tell him to leave service to Roman government. There must be ways to avoid the entanglement mentioned in scripture and still be involved in government service, it seems.
@@ggrout1086 If we went by the exceptions to the rule, then the rule would loose it's salt. Both Daniel and Joseph were a part of a much bigger plan of God to bring forth salvation / deliverance to the Israelite's and to show his power to the governments of men. Yes, and Zacchaeus as well as those married to unbelievers and or those who were already slaves, were to remain in there marriages and there employment and to serve them even better then they had previously as onto the Lord, but these examples are the exception and not the rule, P&L ( : > ). In the world, but NOT of it, what does it mean to be OF THE WORLD, other then to participate in there pagan holidays, politic's, and voting. I dare say that the more we are in the world the harder it becomes to not be a part of it. Wisdom would dictate less involvement rather then more, but you must decide for yourself, for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ Jesus.
My understanding of it is that now that these people (the centurion included) have realised their wrongful past, they’re free to continue their employment - alas, if the terms of that work continues to demand the aforementioned wrongful actions, then - by their own new insight - they will either (morally) be compelled to leave, or continue in self-contradiction, as a hypocrite (like the Pharisees and Sadducees).
I don't think Mike was suggesting this but the idea of legislating ALL morality would seem to be impractical. Do we pass laws against ALL sins? Everyone's personal vices? How many prisons do you want to build? :)
This is why Jesus told Pilate when he said to Jesus that he had the authority to kill him, Jesus said that Pilate could not have it except it were given him from above.
What exactly is the difference between "Serving in government while calling out immoral behavior in government" and "Transforming government into a Christian institution"? I can't imagine any reason God would not approve of influencing the government to be more in alignment with his Law. ALL legislation is the legislation of morality. There has never been a law in the history of mankind that was not the legislation of someone's morality.
Theonomy - Theocracy - Ecclesiocracy actually based on and only on Gods Civil Judicial (Not Cerimonial) laws that His word says is still obligatory for human governments is FAR FAR superior in every way to the injustice systems we have in America or in any other Nation today. Theonomy means Gods law. All Governments are a Theonomy. The question is who is God? The people - the King - the Emperor? Or actual God? Whose law is law His or ours?
@@aaronjames7266 awesome find brother thank u..now my wife will get even more offended🤣💀👀🤦♂️🙏please pray for her..she reads the book but has not the understanding 🙏 hahaha bless u and ur fams from new zealand ❤
@@aaronjames7266 chur bro.🤙.question then is....would this heavy vaxx push from govt be deemed as tyranny having our God given right to free will taken away? Or would it be classed as we were testing God for healing rather than man made arnt we ment too?
There’s a contradiction, I think: If (true, moral, divine) authority is ‘natural’ (ie, not reliant or based on imposing power by way of threat, or force), and that particular authority (that of God) is singular and exclusive - the only one that truly counts - then how can we submit to ungodly (law, force, worldly) ‘authority’ that is in contravention of such holy law (for example, government that deliberately seek war and invasions resulting in the killing of its own citizens and others, sanctions abortion, legislates racism, whether directly or hidden, etc)? We are not to grant such (false) authority submission since it doesn’t hold real (God-sanctioned) authority (by being in contravention of the Bible laws).
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So how about church being forced to stop non vax people? And how about ordering the church just to close? Don’t you think we as church should protest? Not just desobeing, but protesting?
Picture this: victims of a genocide gather around and pray to a god to save them, while the perpetrators of that same genocide pray to a god to help them commit atrocities in his name, while being funded by a government. How is all of this violence the fault of anything else but religion and government being stitched together?
I’m still in the beginning of the video. Mike states that an atheist’s moral paradigm, when followed to its logical conclusion, does not justify him claiming injustice if his property is stolen. Mike must be confusing atheism with nihilism or anarchism. Atheism is NOT a set of beliefs. It only indicates a a lack of belief in the existence of God, only. In the absence of belief in God, the Atheist has the hard task of determining what his moral paradigm will be without the benefit of God’s word. However he is still able to come up with SOMETHING- and that may or may not support a prohibition against stealing. However, I came here for the info about the Bible, not info on atheism, so I will keep listening.
I think what Mike is getting at is not that an atheist does not have God’s word to help define right and wrong, but that an atheist has no intrinsic right to impose their view of right and wrong on anyone else. Without this intrinsic right, a claim of injustice is simply an individual’s personal opinion or wish. Atheists may say that the corporate good is a higher good than an individual’s good and that is at least one basis for morality, but there is no basis for that statement outside of mankind’s inventing that notion. If another race exists in the universe who believes universal domination is good and therefore enslaving or killing humans is good, there is no higher morality we can claim. Atheists would be on no firm ground to claim injustice, because they have no higher, absolute definer of morality - of right, wrong, justice, and injustice. They could claim that such an act would be evil and unjust according to their definition of morality, but they could not claim that the alien race was being unjust because there is no higher authority to appeal to.
I THINK ABORTION IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE BUT I ALSO THINK WE HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION AS WELL TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST WAR AND THE SUPPORT OF POVERTY! TO MANY CHRISTIANS ARE ONLY FOCUSING ON ABORTION WHEN WE REALLY NEED TO STAND AGAINST ALL MURDER AND DEATH AS WELL AS GREED! WE NEED TO STAY OUT OF POLITICS BUT STILL FIGHT THESE ISSUES AND THIS CAN BE DONE THROUGH MANY DIFFERENT MEANS OF INFLUENCE TODAY! NOT JUST POLITICS!
Most wars are bad, banker led wars, with nothing good coming out. Since 911, evangelical churches have blindly supported wars in the middle east as if it's the crusade, yet really they are senseless wars for Israel.
The members make up the Church, We worship in a building. Doing service ,We are to teach Christ and his word according to the Bible. . Then it's OK after Church service as long as the two are not mixed. We have Biblical Laws and Government Laws. . He is explaining well. He is giving book , chapter and verse, which is good. Always be able to back up what you say.
Divine law Vs Humen made law, off course have big difference; under divine law peoples do pay their responsibility first and than claim their rights BUT Man made law ( Secular Law) peoples claim their rights and not obliged to pay their responsibility, 2x different concepts 2x diffetents outcomes.
When you read the books of the New Testament you have probably asked yourself many times: "Why is it that for 2000 years we have not seen the miracles that accompanied the Church of Christ in the first century as the New Testament describes them? Why is it that so-called preachers of Christ have to prove that Jesus really existed, while atheists have the audacity to deny the historicity or divine origin of Christ? Maybe because the Church of Christ ceased to exist after the first century. There is no Church as it is described in the books of the New Testament, but there are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and other Christian sects, claiming to be the Church, but not having that one thing that distinguishes the divine from the human and is characteristic only for the Church of Christ - the backing of the word with signs, that is, miracles (Mk 16:15-20). That is why part of the researchers doubt the historicity of Christ, and part of them do not mind to declare Him a real person, but an ordinary philosopher, a teacher. But even if Jesus was an ordinary philosopher, His disciples would have been ordinary followers of Jesus. And they would not have dared to write about the miracles that not only Jesus but also His disciples could perform. If in our time there were a Church as described by the authors of the New Testament books, where miracles are performed - healing the sick, prophesying, raising the dead - no one would doubt the historicity of Christ. Then all over the world there would be the same disputes as in the first century - Jesus is the Son of God or a false prophet who seduces the world with miracles. Find on youtube the message *"The Mystery of the Church of Christ"* . It reveals the prophecy of the disappearance and reappearance of the Church of Christ before the End of the World, giving hope to all who are sincerely seeking God and who are not lazy to think freely.
Foundationally speaking God's people were meant to be governed by God's laws as they represented true fairness and justice. That's why there were judges instead of kings..... but then there was rebellion. We don't live under the true government of God today but we will in the millennial reign. "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6 Also, why does no one go to the root words in these first 7 verses? If we did we would see he's talking about the body with regards to the elders and priests.... the ministers of the temple services. g1849 exousia is power/ God’s power g758 archon is assembly of elders g1249 dikanos are deacons, leaders, teachers g3011 leitourgos are the priests, levites...functionary of the temple or gospel Never in this passage was the following used: g2232 hegemon which is governor, ruler g935 basileus is King g1413 dunastes ruler
Virginia is in violation of the Govt. Law. So (as an American) Obey authority untill they break the law. Civil disobeidience is biblical. We would not need guns if everyone was Under The Kingdom Of Jesus and all were changed/Glorified in God's Eterenty, as it will be in the future, but we live in a fallen world ,sinful under sinnful man. So, untill then, uphold and stand on the Constitution and Bill of rights. 1st A was given by God and is our sacred Duty to speak the Gospel. 2nd A is there to guard that and handle/stop evil doers(by default) I love what God did in creating the U.S.A.
@@Cyberfender1 Friend, you make it sound as though the constitution of a single country is some sort of scripture. God didn't tell us to obey our government --while they are not behaving hypocritically or against their stated intentions--, he told us to obey our government.
@@gospelrap11 Yes, with caevotes. God does work with earthly Govt.s down Through history( especially The Begining of The US.). I still think( and historical provable) what was written by Thinkers, framers and Founding Fathers. John Whinthrup and his likening the new colony and the nation that followed, to "A city on a hill" in the Bible. The best, brightest hope an earthly govt can get. Imho. Did(does) God have a plan for The United States of America? I pray and hope He does
@@gospelrap11 This was the very reason we as The United States existed. The Real question is was this God's will? I say yes based on acounts of what history transpired and the faith of Founding Fathers. A good reference is The Light and the Glory, did God have a plan for the US? And others I have read but can't recall. No, the US Constitution should not be equal with Holy Scripture.
a) we dont want a Christian government. We want christian leaders who only do basic governments and nothing else b) separation of church and state was to keep state out of church not church out of state
So basically the church wants to be able to influence the government while keeping the government from policing the church? Sounds a lot like a malevolent cabal with unclear intentions. Makes me hate theists even more.
@@realname5332 Keeping God's commandments and upholding godly virtues like taking care of the destitute sounds malevolent to you? 🤨🤨 Or are you talking about the church system that claims to do these things but makes people destitute?
So the real J esus frightens you? His TRUE followers who cry for others souls frighten you? We live in the times predicted....many false “christs”....people professing as christ “ believers “, but ARE NOT truly G od spirit indwelled. If they are not behaving and being as C hrist J esus would, thats how you tell the fakes which cause the wrong reputation.
If we take the parable of John 8:7, then it becomes clear that no (worldly) ‘authority’ has the (God sanctioned) authority to neither legislate, or judge unless it (that is, the people occupying office) has no sin and committed no similar crime it/them-selves. Something we know is abjectly and decidedly not the case (as they’re often corrupt and the greatest sinners). Hence, we have no obligation to submit. Jesus (the 4 Gospels) stand irrevocably and divinely above all other (OT & NT) texts, as it’s the closest to the real source of authority (Jesus). Paul (like in Corinthians about women’s role, behaviour and dress) speaks to a select group of people within their context (historical period, culture, laws).
I think this is rational beyond the word. A theocracy is representing itself as the government of GOD. We know as fallen men we are incapable of living up to GOD'S standard (try as we may). Therefore, a theocracy would alienate anyone ostracized by the inevitable corruption of the man made government from the faith.
Those Christians also committed genocide on the Native Americans. Christians haven’t really been about humility, servitude, and submitting since Jesus.
The church that I used to go to used to have a Church council and the National flag not too separate as far as I can see? then I live in England which is separate from the United states which is any thing but united is that not so? How many different types of Christians do you have in America?
Romans 13:3 says - For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: That is a very naive worldview. No one was more righteous than Jesus himself and the ruling authorities murdered Him for it. Explain this verse to someone under the rule of Hitler or Stalin or the regime of North Korea. To me when a government steps outside of biblical principles as God intended, then the rest of the passage becomes nullified and we are to take a posture of passive resistance that depends on how evil the government is.
"This is the people that government enjoy", tell that to Peter and Paul and the rest of the apostles who continually against what you consider authority. You start with we need to work out what verse one is and then the rest stems from there. You give your opinion and then preach the opposite. Mat 4:10 Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and SERVE HIM ONLY. What is authority and how does one/government gain authority over you? Answer that and you have the answer to verse one.
Theocracy There are no vacuums when it comes to legislated morality or what's, more often than not, immorality. Consequently, a nation's foundational ethical standard determines its God. Thus, there is likewise no vacuums when it comes to religious-influenced governments, be it even Secular Humanism in its multifaceted forms, and it usually is. When one understands that idolatry is not so much about statues as it is statutes, it becomes clear that all governments are theocratic (god ruled), serving either the true God or some false god, demonstrated by what laws they keep and consider the supreme law of the land. Question: Were the governments in the Old Testament under the god Baal (or any other false god named in the Old Testament) theocracies? Answer: Of course, they were. Question: Was Baal (or any other god named in the Bible) real or were they merely ancient forms of We the People? Answer: Merely ancient forms of We the People. See 1 Corinthians 8:4-6. Consequently: "...There is no escaping theocracy [or theonomy]. A government’s laws reflect its morality, and the source of that morality (or, more often than not, immorality) is its god. It is never a question of theocracy or no theocracy, but whose theocracy. The American people, by way of their elected officials, are the source of the Constitutional Republic’s laws. Therefore, the Constitutional Republic’s god is WE THE PEOPLE. "People recoil at the idea of a theocracy’s morality being forced upon them, but because all governments are theocracies, someone’s morality is always being enforced. This is an inevitability of government. The question is which god, theocracy, laws, and morality will we choose to live under?..." For more, see online Chapter 3 "The Preamble: WE THE PEOPLE vs. YAHWEH" of "Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective." Click on the top entry on our Online Book page and scroll down to Chapter 3.
Nope. Islam has a theocracy of sorts and it is wicked. I value my freedom in and relationship with the Lord too much. @45:45 I completely hear you, when He returns, that will be a Theocracy of the Lord Jesus Christ. And that is what I look forward to. My heart yearns for it. But it will not be brought about as many are seeking to do themselves....like the Catholic church had.
Yeshua told his followers to give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to give to God what belongs to God. Yeshua said his kingdom what not of this world. So called Christians remind yourselves that this is not your kingdom. Do you really know what kingdom Yeshua is talking about?
Interesting sermon. One thing that is on my mind though is that the majority of western countries are democracies, hence there is a slight difference to Biblical times were people lived in autocracies and had no say in the matter as to who is in charge. In a democracy the authority lies with the people and government is elected to represent them as direct democracy on all matters is really difficult to handle. I think it means that every citizen has been given authority to vote and this is something Christians should be encouraged to do. Also, if in a democracy an elected representative changes laws or uses emergencies in order to get more special rights (this is how Rome became an empire, this is how Hitler made himself leader of Germany and this is how in Star Wars Palpatine becomes Emperor) - you might wonder who is the person not submitting to the authorities? Because in that case it would be an individual not respecting the democracy or constitution which in itself carries authority. Also, amusing how much Americans hate taxes. Taxes are good and necessary to finance infrastructure, education, etc. Noone is taking away your money, but the money will be invested for the good of the society. As a social democrat I just have a different view on that.
The tax money doesn't go to that though. Right now our tax money is going to Ukraine, "clean" energy plans that will inevitably fail, and I don't even want to know where else.
If money is taken from someone, what that money is used for doesn't change the fact that it is taken against someone's will though right? I think it's legitimate for ppl to question such things. Rape is forcible, but we don't rationalise it by explaining how it benefited the rapist? Also, democracy is a group having authority over a minority. How does racism fit into this? When the majority of people want to execute you??? The point is: government of nowadays is wrong because it uses force to inculcate morality. Its literally the contradiction that Jesus was trying to get us to see. But interesting comment. Thank you for those thoughts. I agree, the concept of governance is needed, but not in the way we think.
True early Christian didnotparticipate in the matters of politics. and they did not vote and they did not hold office. Check your history of ealry 1st centeury christians
Do you know what the difference is from what you preach and what JW's preach? The the JW's upholds the same God that Jesus upheld, ok? Isaiah 43:10 .You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none.
Great video, but legislation is Not morality. Morality starts first in the heart. The Kingdom of God is within. And then, society attempts to legislate those ideas, via laws. Which I think is less effective than by ideas. JESUS changed hearts with his example, not with a sword (which is what laws do). And I'm against abortion BTW, but disagree with legislating against it. Why? The same reason Jesus accepted his execution; because ideas change hearts, not laws. And by legislating morality, you commit the tyranny you so strongly speak against. No, I'm not okay with ppl murdering babies, but I have faith that by demonstrating a respect for the freedom of others, they will come around like the prodigal son.
If Christians in the USA don't want a theocracy then why is Christmas a national holiday that is forced upon all non-Christians? If Christians in the USA don't want a theocracy then why are the majority of Christians in favor of making Christianity a national religion? If Christians in the USA don't want a theocracy then why did Christians try too overthrow the government? If Christians in the USA don't want a theocracy then why do a lot of Christians, especially the Christians on the Right, vote for presidential candidates based upon who they believe is the most Christian? If Christians in the USA don't want a theocracy then why is conservative Christianity still a thing?
"Christians" (a self reported group, containing all issues all self reported groups) don't necessarily know anything about what God actually said. 1. I didn't know holidays were forced on you. You do know Jews celebrate Christmas too? 2. If true (you give no source), then see my first sentence. 3. When? 1775? Most of the most prominent Founders were Theistic Rationalists, not Christians. 4. They voted for Trump! He never claimed to be Christian, though the Ds he ran against did. 5. I'm not a conservative (I'm an An-Cap), but I can say this, though mistaken and misinformed about several things, they can see that American liberals do lots of evil things, and they think things staying the way they were would be a lot better than change into more evil. Now, to turn your phrase, let me ask this, why were avowed Atheists the largest mass murderers in the last 100 years? In fact, why are Atheists (a relatively new belief system) responsible for more murders in the last 100 years than all religious people and "religious" wars throughout all of history? Do you see why we don't judge the truth of a system of belief by their worst (self reported) adherents?
"You can't legislate morality" is a true statement, it's just come into misuse. What it actually means is that you can't *convince* people of moral truth by passing laws. In other words, it's a different way of phrasing "the government isn't the church." The job of bringing moral truth to people is that of the church, while the job of enforcing proper behavior in accordance with moral truth is that of the government.
But governments legislated morality constantly, throughout history
This teaching is needed right now
Man I love your teaching man. You make doing right so enjoyable. You uave helped me see scripture so clear. I pray for your growth. Your funny too!!lol
2020 and this is so RELEVANT
Praise God for your gift of bible teaching. This is so insightful
Excellent teaching! A+
Thanks Pastor Mike
Excellent teaching on a difficult topic
It amuses me when people use the Roman's passage to tell people to support the political figure they support, yet the same people never want that to apply to them for people they don't support. Use the verses or don't, but you can't pick and choose.
Sad to see that discontinuity... I myself choose to honor both, and encourage my contemporaries to do the same.
I'm only 8 minutes in and have enough to chew on for the day. Authority vs power; what clarity. May the Lord bless you & your family.
Yes, we want that God and His laws is the foundation of the country.
Thank you.
Mike. It would be critical to define Theocracy....whenever having a debate or discussion we must agree to definitions so we understand each other.
This answered so many questions thank you so much
1. What of Christians pursuing political careers? There's a precedent for continuing in the area you're already in but what if you're not already in politics/the gov't?
2. Sin is inherently morally wrong. How do you draw the distinction between legislation that imposes religion and legislation that stops sin?
3. (Relevant-ish) Galatians 6:10 and nepotism. Could you shed a little light on that? I hope my question makes sense.
There will be no theocracy until Christ comes back.
I don't agree with everything, but i love alot of your views and hope more people can see you.
Ty, was looking for a teaching that really included the bible-- so good
If you are not to judge, you are not to abstract your judgement to the authority of government.
He is making a lot of sense. Only if people would study and not wait to be fed like a baby. I read a lot of comments on spiritual things, I study a lot, I try to teach what I know and give books, chapter and verse. There are many verses in the Bible on one particular subject. That's why we are to search the Scriptures. I love his explanation.
Yess!! Well explained on judging.
If you look at what an "Established church" is you will find the churches in Europe which are funded and "owned" and run by the state, Pastors are state employees and the church buildings are owned by the state, not the local church members, and the buildings are empty most of the time. As a whole Europe is post Christian due to this. In the USA churches are not part of the state and as such either live or die on their own, this means that the pastors and the local members must support the church and most American Churches are alive and if not fully well in today's world they are not dusty empty buildings, that most of Europe's are.
@Kimberly York you have an excellent point....please keep promoting it....or proclaiming it.....if that is a better expression....
It is true that privatized churches have more butts in the pews... but as you said, that certainly doesn't mean they are 'well'. The USA is post Christian because our churches don't always serve their purpose even if they're well staffed and attended.
Ty. You made it easy to understand. I’ve been conflicted. Daniel, Joseph, the centurions experience! Great teaching brings clear understanding. Thanks for the Bible based perspective. 👊
This is a difficult topic to teach, but I think Mike did as good a job as you can. There are so many exceptions in scripture on the topic of governmental authority. We in America also forget that our current system - a democratic republic - was not the norm during the time the Bible was written. We project our current structure onto the Bible and we therefore wind up in error.
Please Pastor Mike can you make it simple for me.
My question is are leaders in politics who are clearly anti God apointed by God? If they are not, do we submit to them?
Very interesting
When someone says "You can't legislate morality" they are in effect saying "You can only legislate immorality".
In my perspective from the new testament we (Christians) can't legislate morality at least for now until Jesus comes back to rule.
40:00 The vast majority of laws have little to do with morality. Probably about 99% of laws fall into the nothing to do with morality category.
Don't murder, don't steal, don't rape, don't assault, don't defraud. Those are the laws that deal with morality. You can maybe come up with another half dozen possibly.
Everything else is nothing to do with morality and is simply "because government says so"
@@dorvinion about environmental ones like protected species or safe water? (Corruption is defrauding, meanwhile...)
Pastor Mike you are a good person, a good teacher, and a man of God. I do agree that abortion is a bad thing but so was slavery, both are and equally bad. Slavery was also just as bad as the holocaust, God bless you
Taxation is theft, which makes it a moral issue. Right?
How do you handle the passage where Paul resists being freed from jail and told to move on? He declared that his rights as a Roman citizen were violated and refused to be released and sent away without accountability.
There are all these exceptions to the rule due to so many other examples in scripture. Would this not mean there is a contradiction in Rom 13?
Why did Paul blanket over these exceptions as if there were none?
The government bears the sword to punish evil, but the government doesn't get to define evil. If you understand God's definition of good and evil, then you will know when to resist or submit to the government. Yet, Paul does say if you endure being unjustly punished by the government, you will have great reward. Thus, there is a difference between rights and rewards.
Peter told Ananias that he had the right not to give his money to the church, but he would only have heavenly reward if he gave his money (and for good reasons). Jesus says a man has a right to divorce his wife if she commits adultery, but he would only have a reward if he forgives and stays with her (even then, Joseph was considered righteous for sending Mary away quietly and not wanting to shame her, rather than forgiving her and staying with her.)
Furthermore, no one had the right to eat the showbread in the temple, yet David did not sin by eating it because his right to live overruled the prohibition, given he was starving and there was nothing else to eat. However, eating from the tree of knowledge was inexcusable because there were plenty of other things to eat and no desperation factor. Thus, once you understand the purpose of the Law, then you will understand when it's acceptable to break it.
God commands Jacob to let Him go while wrestling with him, and then rewards Jacob for not listening. Jesus says a slave only does what he is told, and thus, doesn't really know what his master is all about. He called the disciples "friends" because He revealed everything to them and they were willing to question Him.
When it comes down to capital punishment, the government does have that right, but we must also remember that justice without mercy is not real justice. Jesus said: "...be merciful, even as your Father in Heaven is merciful." When you can find a time when killing is truly merciful to everyone involved, then you can call it justice. Until then, the one who uses his authority to punish shall be accountable to God.
Did you allude to the Seven Mountain Mandate? I also disagree with that mandate. Like what you said, the bible says, Christians shouldn't try to control the gov't. Can you do a video on the Seven Mountain Mandate?
Yes! I caught that also. That was a full on NAR description
Not as the Church however as individuals we can be in govt.
A theocracy requires something no human can provide. A God who makes a direct covenant to govern directly. The NT is about changing the heart of the individual who will apply God's principles no matter where he or she is. This is not a Theocracy
excelent thank you
Awesome. Views were edified, rectified and modified.
Thinking of the Chinese government re-writing the Bible. They don’t want to be accountable to God. Very sad.
"But in what situation can I not submit? "
LOL! that's hilarious.
Wonderful teaching!! Agreed, Amen.
PREACH
Mike, great post. I was wondering if you'd be able to do a video specifically addressing how Christians should be responding to the government imposing restrictions on church gathering during the COVID pandemic? In your video you touched on "not feeling compelled to speak out against non-moral issues", but there has been a lot of 'corruption' regarding the information around COVID which is impacting everyone globally, but also the church in how we gather, and it ripples out and affects how we minister to the world. Therefore, I'm wondering if these restriction are now within the realm of "moral issues"? I understand it's a complicated issue, however, many Christians are saying different things, and I think you can bring a good biblical perspective that can serve many of us who are sincerely seeking what the honourable thing is in view of submission and honour to God. Thanks Mike.
If the restrictions are targeting just the church, the church should speak out and challenge government. If the restrictions include mosques, synagogues, clubs, restaurants,corner stores, etc... to help in curving a virus, there should be no uprising from the church. They should humbly submit and find other means to exhort one another.
@@aaronjames7266 100% agree
Great lecture if you accept God as the only 'true' authority to rule over others. I gather from this that a Hitler did not have 'true' authority because his authority came from "mob rule", intimidation, threats, and power. Christians, as a group, then have no obligation to follow. I have no problem with addressing just American history and values, instead of saying this affects countries worldwide, simply because we are still the only country not based on authority of government, but rather the authority of God as expressed by Christianity. Christians, as a group, believe in the freedom of conscience. This means as long as you accepted certain general precepts of God's Moral Law, (honesty, don't murder innocent people, don't steal) you are in moral agreement with our founding. Atheists are welcome! We don't outlaw atheists because the freedom of conscience comes from God.
This is the first freedom, because if is the first gift of God, choice.
God wants us to have free will. If you wish to eat the apple, the apple is there for you to eat. If you don't wish to eat the apple, don't. Freedom of conscience, is loving God, to allow others to not believe in God. That freedom came before the first government was ever created by man. It is not dependent on government. Freedom of association, right to life, and the right to prosper through ownership of private property. ( morally building wealth through work) come from God not government. Government only recently discovered these rights from God as mankind has discovered other God's natural laws of the universe, i.e. gravity, motion of planets, shapes create 'lift' to fly like a bird.
Great lecture.. love the message.. cool.. sweet... thank you for UA-cam video. I'm including it in the curriculum of a home school course on how the Bible affected our America.. she's still the only country to be based on the Bible.. period. Yea! Thank God..
We are going to be under a theocracy when the governments of man become the governments of God and of his Christ, but until then I wouldn't trust anything man and his so-called wisdom has to offer.
Regarding capital punishment, it has been proven that a percentage of those who were on death row, executed, were later, after the fact, proven innocent. In addition, certain groups are more likely to receive harsher sentences and more like to be sentenced to death than other groups.
Also, by all means, if warranted, lock someone up, even for life for they may need a life in prison to think on their crimes and for they Holy Spirit to move them to repent. But the dead cannot repent.
If only we were as vigilant in calling out domestic violence, rape culture, child abuse, oppression of the poor and working poor as we are when I comes to abortion, wow, what an impact for justice and the cause of Christ we would make. I'd wager alot of the abortion we see would be prevented if we made concerted to address these other issue of abuse and oppression.
European justice seems to say....20 years is enough for most crimes, and the death penalty is not even considered.....and the treatment seems to be more humane....which may be enough reasons to actually to study this issue, a little closer to see if there system has any merit....
From nearly the very beginning I see a huge hole in this argument of Christianity can’t be a theocracy, because if a theocracy does occur in a nation then surely according to the same logic that God establishes all authority, then that means God has ordained said theocracy in that particular nation and raised whatever governing body over it, even if it’s a Christian one.
Very good stuff.
1. It seems that every "believer" (Old or New Testament follower of the LORD) who was in the State (the government) was either forced to be there (Joseph, Daniel, etc.) or was already there when they first believed (the Centurion, soldiers, various other people in the New Testament).
2. The State taxes, definitionally, and that's theft, definitionally.
3. Therefore, my best understanding of the Scriptures is similar to the pre-300 AD Christians, that we almost always submit to government, pay our taxes (as we are commanded to), and to not seek the power of the State if we can avoid it. Why? Because if we endorse taxation, then we are personally responsible for the State's theft. In fact, if we endorse any other evil thing the State does, and it will do other evil things, then we are personally responsible for those evils as well.
4. Taxes are a moral issue, in that they are theft. Theft isn't as bad as murder, granted, but it's still a moral issue.
5. Yes, Genesis 9 does bring about government, but not necessarily the State (the thing that taxes and claims a monopoly on the use of force in a certain place). In fact, God's preferred method of governance was commanded in the Torah and seen in the book of Judges up to 1 Samuel 8. There was no taxation as far as we can tell. And, in 1 Samuel 8, the evil of asking for a King (the State in personal form) was explained, including the punishment of taxation and various forms of enslavement.
6. Thank you for noting several exceptions to "obey government"! Most who preach on this include none or only "don't do evil things". But, there are more exceptions:
The best example would be Abram's fight against the 4 kings (who were all authorities). They had kidnapped Lot while fighting really bad people from Sodom and Gomorrah. Abram got his men together, attacked them, and defeated them, rescuing Lot. Then Melchizedek blessed Abram in his victory. The 4 kings never required Abram to do anything sinful, and Abram didn't just disobey their authority, he attacked them, and was blessed by God for it!
Rahab disobeyed the authorities of Jericho when she hid the spies and allowed them to escape. She was directly blessed by God for this, an ancestor of Jesus!
Jehoiada committed treason by hiding Joash from Queen Athaliah and crowned him king.
Elijah (I'm assuming) disobeyed Ahab and Jezebel when he slew the prophets of Baal. Ahab called him “the worst troublemaker in Israel”. One might say he was a prophet and doing anything else than what he did would have been sin.
7. Lastly, and this is only for Americans, there's definitely an exception for certain direct rebellions, and that it's right there in the founding document of the country, the Declaration of Independence. If the State becomes bad enough, we can legally rebel. If the State claims otherwise, then it has violated its own chain of authority and it's the thing that's rebelling. I only note this because it's technically true, not because Americans should abuse this. It's almost always the right thing to do to obey the government, regardless of what it looks like or says.
8. The role of government isn't to legislate morality (in general), it's to "punish evildoers" (seek justice). Justice (repayment, an eye for an eye) is a small part of morality, but it's not nearly all of it. It's important to distinguish between justice and morality, because lust is immoral but there's no (human) justice to be sought. Confusion about this point has seen Christians throughout time calling for laws attempting to force unbelievers to act "morally" against their will when no human justice was needed. This makes unbelievers hate us and puts us in the place of judging those outside the Church.
Excellent points! 👏
While your pouring through the scriptures to see what may be included in this discussion, you might want NOt to leave out the fact that NO GOOD soldier of Christ Jesus entangles himself/herself in the affairs of man. Man's government including this one is the affairs of man, we are to have NOTHING to do with it. Separate yourselves Holy/completely onto God, and TRUST NOT man, end of the story.
Mike mentioned the examples of Joseph and Daniel in the Old Testament. I would add examples in the New Testament: When Jesus visited Zacchaeus, he didn't tell him to stop working for the government; he rejoiced in Zacchaeus' decision to stop cheating people and to pay back more than what he had cheated. When the Roman centurion came to Jesus, Jesus marveled at his faith, but did not tell him to leave service to Roman government. There must be ways to avoid the entanglement mentioned in scripture and still be involved in government service, it seems.
@@ggrout1086 If we went by the exceptions to the rule, then the rule would loose it's salt.
Both Daniel and Joseph were a part of a much bigger plan of God to bring forth salvation / deliverance to the Israelite's and to show his power to the governments of men.
Yes, and Zacchaeus as well as those married to unbelievers and or those who were already slaves, were to remain in there marriages and there employment and to serve them even better then they had previously as onto the Lord, but these examples are the exception and not the rule, P&L ( : > ).
In the world, but NOT of it, what does it mean to be OF THE WORLD, other then to participate in there pagan holidays, politic's, and voting. I dare say that the more we are in the world the harder it becomes to not be a part of it. Wisdom would dictate less involvement rather then more, but you must decide for yourself, for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ Jesus.
Did Jesus say "render unto Caesar" or not?
My understanding of it is that now that these people (the centurion included) have realised their wrongful past, they’re free to continue their employment - alas, if the terms of that work continues to demand the aforementioned wrongful actions, then - by their own new insight - they will either (morally) be compelled to leave, or continue in self-contradiction, as a hypocrite (like the Pharisees and Sadducees).
I don't think Mike was suggesting this but the idea of legislating ALL morality would seem to be impractical. Do we pass laws against ALL sins? Everyone's personal vices? How many prisons do you want to build? :)
Before the KJ bible Roman's 13 never mentioned government. Example the Geneva Bible , Tinder Bible etc....... What was the original Greek
This is why Jesus told Pilate when he said to Jesus that he had the authority to kill him, Jesus said that Pilate could not have it except it were given him from above.
What exactly is the difference between "Serving in government while calling out immoral behavior in government" and "Transforming government into a Christian institution"? I can't imagine any reason God would not approve of influencing the government to be more in alignment with his Law.
ALL legislation is the legislation of morality. There has never been a law in the history of mankind that was not the legislation of someone's morality.
Theonomy - Theocracy - Ecclesiocracy actually based on and only on Gods Civil Judicial (Not Cerimonial) laws that His word says is still obligatory for human governments is FAR FAR superior in every way to the injustice systems we have in America or in any other Nation today.
Theonomy means Gods law.
All Governments are a Theonomy. The question is who is God?
The people - the King - the Emperor? Or actual God? Whose law is law His or ours?
So... Does that mean we must listen.. When govt say GET VAXXED?
Thanks bro appreciate it..I'll have a look at defy tyrants🤙
@@aaronjames7266 awesome find brother thank u..now my wife will get even more offended🤣💀👀🤦♂️🙏please pray for her..she reads the book but has not the understanding 🙏 hahaha bless u and ur fams from new zealand ❤
@@aaronjames7266 chur bro.🤙.question then is....would this heavy vaxx push from govt be deemed as tyranny having our God given right to free will taken away? Or would it be classed as we were testing God for healing rather than man made arnt we ment too?
HEARD IT
Some of these comments…..
🤦🏾♀️
❤❤❤
There’s a contradiction, I think:
If (true, moral, divine) authority is ‘natural’ (ie, not reliant or based on imposing power by way of threat, or force), and that particular authority (that of God) is singular and exclusive - the only one that truly counts - then how can we submit to ungodly (law, force, worldly) ‘authority’ that is in contravention of such holy law (for example, government that deliberately seek war and invasions resulting in the killing of its own citizens and others, sanctions abortion, legislates racism, whether directly or hidden, etc)?
We are not to grant such (false) authority submission since it doesn’t hold real (God-sanctioned) authority (by being in contravention of the Bible laws).
So how about church being forced to stop non vax people?
And how about ordering the church just to close? Don’t you think we as church should protest? Not just desobeing, but protesting?
So submit till my submission would be unbiblical
Picture this: victims of a genocide gather around and pray to a god to save them, while the perpetrators of that same genocide pray to a god to help them commit atrocities in his name, while being funded by a government.
How is all of this violence the fault of anything else but religion and government being stitched together?
I’m still in the beginning of the video.
Mike states that an atheist’s moral paradigm, when followed to its logical conclusion, does not justify him claiming injustice if his property is stolen. Mike must be confusing atheism with nihilism or anarchism. Atheism is NOT a set of beliefs. It only indicates a a lack of belief in the existence of God, only. In the absence of belief in God, the Atheist has the hard task of determining what his moral paradigm will be without the benefit of God’s word. However he is still able to come up with SOMETHING- and that may or may not support a prohibition against stealing. However, I came here for the info about the Bible, not info on atheism, so I will keep listening.
I think what Mike is getting at is not that an atheist does not have God’s word to help define right and wrong, but that an atheist has no intrinsic right to impose their view of right and wrong on anyone else. Without this intrinsic right, a claim of injustice is simply an individual’s personal opinion or wish. Atheists may say that the corporate good is a higher good than an individual’s good and that is at least one basis for morality, but there is no basis for that statement outside of mankind’s inventing that notion. If another race exists in the universe who believes universal domination is good and therefore enslaving or killing humans is good, there is no higher morality we can claim. Atheists would be on no firm ground to claim injustice, because they have no higher, absolute definer of morality - of right, wrong, justice, and injustice. They could claim that such an act would be evil and unjust according to their definition of morality, but they could not claim that the alien race was being unjust because there is no higher authority to appeal to.
Hey
Lex Rex
I THINK ABORTION IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE BUT I ALSO THINK WE HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION AS WELL TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST WAR AND THE SUPPORT OF POVERTY! TO MANY CHRISTIANS ARE ONLY FOCUSING ON ABORTION WHEN WE REALLY NEED TO STAND AGAINST ALL MURDER AND DEATH AS WELL AS GREED! WE NEED TO STAY OUT OF POLITICS BUT STILL FIGHT THESE ISSUES AND THIS CAN BE DONE THROUGH MANY DIFFERENT MEANS OF INFLUENCE TODAY! NOT JUST POLITICS!
Most wars are bad, banker led wars, with nothing good coming out. Since 911, evangelical churches have blindly supported wars in the middle east as if it's the crusade, yet really they are senseless wars for Israel.
I’m a old man and I was taught that you didn’t talk politics in church and don’t talk religion in a bar
The members make up the Church, We worship in a building. Doing service ,We are to teach Christ and his word according to the Bible. . Then it's OK after Church service as long as the two are not mixed. We have Biblical Laws and Government Laws. . He is explaining well. He is giving book , chapter and verse, which is good. Always be able to back up what you say.
Divine law Vs Humen made law, off course have big difference; under divine law peoples do pay their responsibility first and than claim their rights BUT Man made law ( Secular Law) peoples claim their rights and not obliged to pay their responsibility, 2x different concepts 2x diffetents outcomes.
great help thankyou
When you read the books of the New Testament you have probably asked yourself many times: "Why is it that for 2000 years we have not seen the miracles that accompanied the Church of Christ in the first century as the New Testament describes them? Why is it that so-called preachers of Christ have to prove that Jesus really existed, while atheists have the audacity to deny the historicity or divine origin of Christ? Maybe because the Church of Christ ceased to exist after the first century. There is no Church as it is described in the books of the New Testament, but there are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and other Christian sects, claiming to be the Church, but not having that one thing that distinguishes the divine from the human and is characteristic only for the Church of Christ - the backing of the word with signs, that is, miracles (Mk 16:15-20). That is why part of the researchers doubt the historicity of Christ, and part of them do not mind to declare Him a real person, but an ordinary philosopher, a teacher. But even if Jesus was an ordinary philosopher, His disciples would have been ordinary followers of Jesus. And they would not have dared to write about the miracles that not only Jesus but also His disciples could perform. If in our time there were a Church as described by the authors of the New Testament books, where miracles are performed - healing the sick, prophesying, raising the dead - no one would doubt the historicity of Christ. Then all over the world there would be the same disputes as in the first century - Jesus is the Son of God or a false prophet who seduces the world with miracles.
Find on youtube the message *"The Mystery of the Church of Christ"* . It reveals the prophecy of the disappearance and reappearance of the Church of Christ before the End of the World, giving hope to all who are sincerely seeking God and who are not lazy to think freely.
Foundationally speaking God's people were meant to be governed by God's laws as they represented true fairness and justice. That's why there were judges instead of kings..... but then there was rebellion. We don't live under the true government of God today but we will in the millennial reign.
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Isaiah 9:6
Also, why does no one go to the root words in these first 7 verses? If we did we would see he's talking about the body with regards to the elders and priests.... the ministers of the temple services.
g1849 exousia is power/ God’s power
g758 archon is assembly of elders
g1249 dikanos are deacons, leaders, teachers
g3011 leitourgos are the priests, levites...functionary of the temple or gospel
Never in this passage was the following used:
g2232 hegemon which is governor, ruler
g935 basileus is King
g1413 dunastes ruler
To ignore, remove, or omit the seperation of church and state will set up a clear path to the rule of the antichrist, with no restraint in its way.
Question: how would you respond to the people of Virginia who are currently defending their right to bear arms?
Virginia is in violation of the Govt. Law. So (as an American) Obey authority untill they break the law. Civil disobeidience is biblical. We would not need guns if everyone was Under The Kingdom Of Jesus and all were changed/Glorified in God's Eterenty, as it will be in the future, but we live in a fallen world ,sinful under sinnful man. So, untill then, uphold and stand on the Constitution and Bill of rights. 1st A was given by God and is our sacred Duty to speak the Gospel. 2nd A is there to guard that and handle/stop evil doers(by default) I love what God did in creating the U.S.A.
@@Cyberfender1 Friend, you make it sound as though the constitution of a single country is some sort of scripture. God didn't tell us to obey our government --while they are not behaving hypocritically or against their stated intentions--, he told us to obey our government.
@@gospelrap11 Yes, with caevotes. God does work with earthly Govt.s down Through history( especially The Begining of The US.). I still think( and historical provable) what was written by Thinkers, framers and Founding Fathers. John Whinthrup and his likening the new colony and the nation that followed, to "A city on a hill" in the Bible. The best, brightest hope an earthly govt can get. Imho. Did(does) God have a plan for The United States of America? I pray and hope He does
@@gospelrap11 This was the very reason we as The United States existed. The Real question is was this God's will? I say yes based on acounts of what history transpired and the faith of Founding Fathers. A good reference is The Light and the Glory, did God have a plan for the US? And others I have read but can't recall. No, the US Constitution should not be equal with Holy Scripture.
a) we dont want a Christian government. We want christian leaders who only do basic governments and nothing else
b) separation of church and state was to keep state out of church not church out of state
So basically the church wants to be able to influence the government while keeping the government from policing the church? Sounds a lot like a malevolent cabal with unclear intentions.
Makes me hate theists even more.
@@realname5332 Keeping God's commandments and upholding godly virtues like taking care of the destitute sounds malevolent to you? 🤨🤨 Or are you talking about the church system that claims to do these things but makes people destitute?
@@realname5332 I second you, and I am not even an atheist. Christians frighten me more than any group in this country.
So the real J esus frightens you? His TRUE followers who cry for others souls frighten you? We live in the times predicted....many false “christs”....people professing as christ “ believers “, but ARE NOT truly G od spirit indwelled. If they are not behaving and being as C hrist J esus would, thats how you tell the fakes which cause the wrong reputation.
I wonder what position Mike had on masks 😂
If we take the parable of John 8:7, then it becomes clear that no (worldly) ‘authority’ has the (God sanctioned) authority to neither legislate, or judge unless it (that is, the people occupying office) has no sin and committed no similar crime it/them-selves.
Something we know is abjectly and decidedly not the case (as they’re often corrupt and the greatest sinners).
Hence, we have no obligation to submit.
Jesus (the 4 Gospels) stand irrevocably and divinely above all other (OT & NT) texts, as it’s the closest to the real source of authority (Jesus).
Paul (like in Corinthians about women’s role, behaviour and dress) speaks to a select group of people within their context (historical period, culture, laws).
I think this is rational beyond the word. A theocracy is representing itself as the government of GOD. We know as fallen men we are incapable of living up to GOD'S standard (try as we may). Therefore, a theocracy would alienate anyone ostracized by the inevitable corruption of the man made government from the faith.
JESUS says Render to Caesar what is due to Caesar and to God the things due to God.
submitting to God....what about the American Revolution....
Those Christians also committed genocide on the Native Americans. Christians haven’t really been about humility, servitude, and submitting since Jesus.
The church that I used to go to used to have a Church council and the National flag not too separate as far as I can see? then I live in England which is separate from the United states which is any thing but united is that not so? How many different types of Christians do you have in America?
Romans 13:3 says - For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
That is a very naive worldview. No one was more righteous than Jesus himself and the ruling authorities murdered Him for it. Explain this verse to someone under the rule of Hitler or Stalin or the regime of North Korea.
To me when a government steps outside of biblical principles as God intended, then the rest of the passage becomes nullified and we are to take a posture of passive resistance that depends on how evil the government is.
"This is the people that government enjoy", tell that to Peter and Paul and the rest of the apostles who continually against what you consider authority. You start with we need to work out what verse one is and then the rest stems from there. You give your opinion and then preach the opposite. Mat 4:10 Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and SERVE HIM ONLY. What is authority and how does one/government gain authority over you? Answer that and you have the answer to verse one.
Did you watch this? He answers those questions...
Theocracy? See Muenster , 16th century
Theocracy
There are no vacuums when it comes to legislated morality or what's, more often than not, immorality. Consequently, a nation's foundational ethical standard determines its God.
Thus, there is likewise no vacuums when it comes to religious-influenced governments, be it even Secular Humanism in its multifaceted forms, and it usually is.
When one understands that idolatry is not so much about statues as it is statutes, it becomes clear that all governments are theocratic (god ruled), serving either the true God or some false god, demonstrated by what laws they keep and consider the supreme law of the land.
Question: Were the governments in the Old Testament under the god Baal (or any other false god named in the Old Testament) theocracies?
Answer: Of course, they were.
Question: Was Baal (or any other god named in the Bible) real or were they merely ancient forms of We the People?
Answer: Merely ancient forms of We the People. See 1 Corinthians 8:4-6.
Consequently: "...There is no escaping theocracy [or theonomy]. A government’s laws reflect its morality, and the source of that morality (or, more often than not, immorality) is its god. It is never a question of theocracy or no theocracy, but whose theocracy. The American people, by way of their elected officials, are the source of the Constitutional Republic’s laws. Therefore, the Constitutional Republic’s god is WE THE PEOPLE.
"People recoil at the idea of a theocracy’s morality being forced upon them, but because all governments are theocracies, someone’s morality is always being enforced. This is an inevitability of government. The question is which god, theocracy, laws, and morality will we choose to live under?..."
For more, see online Chapter 3 "The Preamble: WE THE PEOPLE vs. YAHWEH" of "Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective." Click on the top entry on our Online Book page and scroll down to Chapter 3.
Our taxes support abortion so.... ???
Nope. Islam has a theocracy of sorts and it is wicked. I value my freedom in and relationship with the Lord too much.
@45:45 I completely hear you, when He returns, that will be a Theocracy of the Lord Jesus Christ. And that is what I look forward to. My heart yearns for it.
But it will not be brought about as many are seeking to do themselves....like the Catholic church had.
❤
if you have the ability to look past the USA.....then you really are impressive....
Yeshua told his followers to give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to give to God what belongs to God. Yeshua said his kingdom what not of this world. So called Christians remind yourselves that this is not your kingdom. Do you really know what kingdom Yeshua is talking about?
If I own a thing, then I have authority over what happens to it by virtue of my ownerships of it. No deity required.
Please @Mikewinger turn on subtitle.
100thCommemt
Don't you think that the so-called Christian church should clean up its own house first before it attempts to correct the errors of others?
Interesting sermon. One thing that is on my mind though is that the majority of western countries are democracies, hence there is a slight difference to Biblical times were people lived in autocracies and had no say in the matter as to who is in charge. In a democracy the authority lies with the people and government is elected to represent them as direct democracy on all matters is really difficult to handle. I think it means that every citizen has been given authority to vote and this is something Christians should be encouraged to do. Also, if in a democracy an elected representative changes laws or uses emergencies in order to get more special rights (this is how Rome became an empire, this is how Hitler made himself leader of Germany and this is how in Star Wars Palpatine becomes Emperor) - you might wonder who is the person not submitting to the authorities? Because in that case it would be an individual not respecting the democracy or constitution which in itself carries authority.
Also, amusing how much Americans hate taxes. Taxes are good and necessary to finance infrastructure, education, etc. Noone is taking away your money, but the money will be invested for the good of the society. As a social democrat I just have a different view on that.
The tax money doesn't go to that though. Right now our tax money is going to Ukraine, "clean" energy plans that will inevitably fail, and I don't even want to know where else.
If money is taken from someone, what that money is used for doesn't change the fact that it is taken against someone's will though right? I think it's legitimate for ppl to question such things. Rape is forcible, but we don't rationalise it by explaining how it benefited the rapist?
Also, democracy is a group having authority over a minority. How does racism fit into this? When the majority of people want to execute you???
The point is: government of nowadays is wrong because it uses force to inculcate morality. Its literally the contradiction that Jesus was trying to get us to see. But interesting comment. Thank you for those thoughts.
I agree, the concept of governance is needed, but not in the way we think.
so what about these Pilgrims....left the UK...and then later, in the Colonies....rebelled...against the UK....
True early Christian didnotparticipate in the matters of politics. and they did not vote and they did not hold office. Check your history of ealry 1st centeury christians
Do you know what the difference is from what you preach and what JW's preach? The the JW's upholds the same God that Jesus upheld, ok?
Isaiah 43:10
.You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none.
Great video, but legislation is Not morality.
Morality starts first in the heart. The Kingdom of God is within. And then, society attempts to legislate those ideas, via laws. Which I think is less effective than by ideas. JESUS changed hearts with his example, not with a sword (which is what laws do).
And I'm against abortion BTW, but disagree with legislating against it. Why? The same reason Jesus accepted his execution; because ideas change hearts, not laws.
And by legislating morality, you commit the tyranny you so strongly speak against. No, I'm not okay with ppl murdering babies, but I have faith that by demonstrating a respect for the freedom of others, they will come around like the prodigal son.
The Bible is a fairytale and Jesus is the ancient equivalent of a fictional superhero.
If you think all that, why are you on this page? Have you listened to any of Mike Winger's apologetic material?
@@matthew8054 lol... He's in denile
Authority and God aren't dependent upon one another. Think this guy would submit to a size 13 to the head?
....I was wondering...wasn't "Jimmy Carter" a very "godly" president (man)...who this nation ended up kicking out of office..???
I want to like this video, but I don't want a christian video to have 616 likes (616 is another version of the number of the beast).
If Christians in the USA don't want a theocracy then why is Christmas a national holiday that is forced upon all non-Christians?
If Christians in the USA don't want a theocracy then why are the majority of Christians in favor of making Christianity a national religion?
If Christians in the USA don't want a theocracy then why did Christians try too overthrow the government?
If Christians in the USA don't want a theocracy then why do a lot of Christians, especially the Christians on the Right, vote for presidential candidates based upon who they believe is the most Christian?
If Christians in the USA don't want a theocracy then why is conservative Christianity still a thing?
"Christians" (a self reported group, containing all issues all self reported groups) don't necessarily know anything about what God actually said.
1. I didn't know holidays were forced on you. You do know Jews celebrate Christmas too?
2. If true (you give no source), then see my first sentence.
3. When? 1775? Most of the most prominent Founders were Theistic Rationalists, not Christians.
4. They voted for Trump! He never claimed to be Christian, though the Ds he ran against did.
5. I'm not a conservative (I'm an An-Cap), but I can say this, though mistaken and misinformed about several things, they can see that American liberals do lots of evil things, and they think things staying the way they were would be a lot better than change into more evil.
Now, to turn your phrase, let me ask this, why were avowed Atheists the largest mass murderers in the last 100 years? In fact, why are Atheists (a relatively new belief system) responsible for more murders in the last 100 years than all religious people and "religious" wars throughout all of history?
Do you see why we don't judge the truth of a system of belief by their worst (self reported) adherents?