Lou Reed - Take a walk on the wild side. In the lyrics when the chorus girls start singing in the back and slowly start moving forward till they sound like they standing few feet infront of you singing in your ears. Anyone else experience that?
Sound can basicly sound like it comes from anywhere in the room. Even beside and behind you. It can sometimes sound like you have surround sound from 2 channels
Hi Paul. I discovered your channel about 2 weeks ago. I just wanted to thank you for sharing your vast knowledge with us. And doing it in such a humble and entertaining way. You are the best. All the way from Cape Town South Africa
Yeah, Radioactivity by Kraftwerk is electronic music but with some vocal sounds that aren't very natural sounding. Personally from that era, I very much prefer Jean Michel Jarre for such music and had some awesome experience in my early teens using my first Stax Electrostatic headphones with his music. Those headphones turned me into an audiophile early on. For electronic music you often have no sense of actual soundstage but rather it's like your head is inside some world of sounds coming from everywhere magically in more of a 3D experience. Even Equinoxe from 1978 can sound amazing on a modern system. Just decided to listen to them on my Magnepan MG30.7 and this old music is seriously not bad. Forget about a clear soundstage in front of you, as it's not intended to have one 🙂
@@ThinkingBetter I still use my Stax SRD 7/MK III earspeakers I bought in '78. Driving them with an SE OTL kit from Transcendent Sound along with a 300B based, Masterpiece, line stage. Still sound amazing so many years later
@@scottwolf8633 Gosh yes, I’ve bought several Stax headphones through the years and love the resolving qualities like nothing else. Some times I look at some extremely expensive system (like UD$200,000 system) in front of me and ask myself, where did all those fine details go? I just decided to listen to that old album Equinoxe of Jean Michel Jarre and wonder how the heck were those sonic details and audio quality even possible in 1978…that album and my Stax headphones probably were main contributors I became excited about audio turning me into audiophile, taking a college master engineering degree in audio and ending up in an audio related career doing R&D. Listen to that old 1978 album on your Stax headphones and tell me what you think…and yes, I also listen to a lot of instrumental music with natural voices.
@@scottwolf8633 SRX Mark IIIs are still my reference headphones (despite having newer Stax and other models). They sound best with a dedicated Stax driver instead of the SRD-7 and standard amp.
@@boblehman1726 Thanks for the heads up, but my SE OTL based on JJ Electronics EL 509 isn't a standard amp. Yet I can't disagree with your premise, that a Stax driver would be optimal. Question: are there any new driver amps from Stax that power the lower voltage of the MK III's?
I have a souped up Schumann Resonance Generator that allows sound to encapsulate around me with the glory of clear holographics. I still need a couple more weeks of break in to really know what this will really do. But, music sounds clean and I can capture incredible amounts of depth, texture and layering. My components are all tubes and all cables are silver. I’m checking that song, Radioactivity, one minute in from the second track. The pshhhh sound seems to be in front of that beat on the right hand side.
Philips dacs are experts in creating a more immersive 3D holographic soundstage, a lot of songs has sounds that go to the listening position but average and crappy dacs only sounds like a 2D representation, so is more than hearing just behind the speakers and make them disapear, there is recordings like sound like Atmos but in a natural way
Tom Watts album, closing time. Track Icecream man. If you have the speakers well away from the wall the sound of the icecream van travels all around the room.
I have experienced this sort of effect with my modest setup and I'd attribute these mostly to wall reflections, especially when dipole speakers play into the room, with aggressive toe-in, while the rear beam bounces of the side wall. But not only with dipoles, speakers that cross fire in front of the listener may cause reflections from the opposite walls, in places where you'd not expect reflections, so they're likely not acoustically treated. Finally, by mixing some signals out of phase across channels, sound engineers achieve unusual spacial effects.
My system is by all accounts room constrained. There isn't any way around it. And since I have had it, the sound stage for virtually everything is slightly out front. The speakers disappear completely. Various sounds appear well outside of the speaker arrangement. Some sound is further out in front. Some is slightly behind the speakers but mostly it sounds in front of the speakers. I find it pleasing. Now, until recently I was not aware that the sound stage is supposed to be behind the speakers and I was perfectly happy with the way it was. But now there is a nagging discontentment that was not there before I learned this. Again, given the room constraints, everything else is optimally set up. So there is nothing else I can do. In this video Paul says he has explained elsewhere why it is important for the sound stage to be behind the speaker and why it should be there. I think, given my constraints, I'm going to put that discontentment aside and _not_ research why the sound stage is supposed to be behind the speakers. 😉
Sometimes you get those effects with phase shifting when the sound is not yet completely erased by opposite phases - and sometimes that's exactly what the creators wanted. Some phaser/flanger effect plugins/pedals can lead to that sound stage perception.
I have my speakers 4 feet from the wall, 9 feet apart and 11 feet from my listening position and the wide sound stage comes from behind my speakers There are some recordings where some of the music comes directly from the speaker I find if you tweak your toe in, it can make it less pronounced, but usually I accept it's the recordings and not my stereo rig
A fireside chat with Paul. Always pleasant even when it drifts far afield. I enjoy well recorded live events where there are unintended ambient sounds. Live at the Jazz Club is full of stuff that makes you feel like you are there. I don't really care for the sanitized studio recordings that much.
Don’t forget that there are also pseudo surround effects available that could be the cause of this. However, that Kraftwerk track is pretty old and I don’t think they were available those days. Your room and setup could also account for this oddity. During my time with this hobby I had to move to quite a few places and each one of them had some of them in stock for me. IMHO, nothing to worry about. Look at it like something very unique that only you can experience 😊
Short Reverb times on your Reverb Plugin /or Hardware will put Performers forward . Set Larger Reverb times/Larger rooms on that effect unit will put the performer back.
100% I have the same situation. Heavy vocal recordings are very forward on my system - it seems like the singer is in front of my speakers and the band is sound staged from behind.
Most of the time that is caused by mismatching, input and output levels properly both Digital and Analog sources can overdrive or under drive the signal in home equipment . When done correctly it will be the truest representation of the recording.
I recently heard an interview with Peter Comeau from IAG (Quad, Wharfedale, Audiolab, and more) where he explained how this works. Speaker designers can play with sound staging in the filter design. Increase the voice frequency spectrum a bit and the voice sounds in front of the speakers, and vice versa.
Paul, This is very good video. FIRST COMMENTS RULE! Aspen FR-30 speakers sound better than anything else I have ever heard. I wish I knew why some of your subscribers are so mean to me and act jealous of my system and my 1970 Superbird. I'm working a building a new set of speakers that are copies of the Aspen FR-30's but made of wood. They won't be as good but they will still be better than what most of your fans have I bet. I'm going to use them in my wood shop and keep the FR-30's in my summer mansion.
@@chuckmaddison2924 Thanks for the tip. I am reading about that "tall poppy syndrome" right now. I think you are right. Every time I leave a first comment they all start attacking me. Then when I leave a really good comment they attack me as well. Then I tell Paul how great the FR-30's are and they do the same thing yet again.
I don't buy this whole "music from the speakers sounds like a live band" idea. First of all, since what we hear is 50% room, the same performers would sound completely different from room to room. The same story with a speakers. So even if the material on a disc is somehow pefectly captured, your audio gear is 100% accurate, then your room will change the whole tonality. Next thing is you don't make a movie by pointing camera on a stage. Reproducing audio from a speakers is the whole art of itself and it can shift experience higher than liveact. And last but not least. Electronic music. How do you want achive liveact quality if there are no musicians, but only a producer and computer acting as a perfomer? Where would you set the "standard" in this case? Also the electronic music pushes audio gear to the extremes in every possible way that any live instrument can't.
In this context, "live band" is referring to a level of imaging, instrument separation, and layering which would allow the listener to close their eyes and truly believe that the separate instruments (acoustic, electronic, effects, whatever) are physically in the the room instead of coming from speakers. This can be done with all genres of music, provided the recording is captured and mixed with that goal in mind. Most commercial recordings and audio systems (including commercial studios) don't fall in that category. And it can be difficult to imagine it's possible, until one hears it for themselves.
This guy obviously *doesn't* know who Kraftwerk are or what kind of music they produce!! Then again, he claims to be vegetarian and proceeds to talk about eating sushi??
Lou Reed - Take a walk on the wild side. In the lyrics when the chorus girls start singing in the back and slowly start moving forward till they sound like they standing few feet infront of you singing in your ears. Anyone else experience that?
Yeah, that's why I bought that recording. Before I knew what most of the lyrics meant.
Sound can basicly sound like it comes from anywhere in the room. Even beside and behind you. It can sometimes sound like you have surround sound from 2 channels
I love how Paul goes off on a totally different subject and then realizing it 😂 I do this all the time
I like your channel. Thank you for taking your time making these videos! No matter the genre, the music needs good sound reproduction.
Reproduction… The keyword. It’s reproduced music. Nothing can ever change that.
Hi Paul. I discovered your channel about 2 weeks ago. I just wanted to thank you for sharing your vast knowledge with us. And doing it in such a humble and entertaining way. You are the best. All the way from Cape Town South Africa
This is kind of off subject, but those are awesome pictures that you have hanging on the wall behind you. Thanks for all the videos Paul.
I’m pretty sure the sound the OP was talking about on the Kraftwrrk record was electronically generated , no microphone was used.
Yeah, Radioactivity by Kraftwerk is electronic music but with some vocal sounds that aren't very natural sounding. Personally from that era, I very much prefer Jean Michel Jarre for such music and had some awesome experience in my early teens using my first Stax Electrostatic headphones with his music. Those headphones turned me into an audiophile early on. For electronic music you often have no sense of actual soundstage but rather it's like your head is inside some world of sounds coming from everywhere magically in more of a 3D experience. Even Equinoxe from 1978 can sound amazing on a modern system. Just decided to listen to them on my Magnepan MG30.7 and this old music is seriously not bad. Forget about a clear soundstage in front of you, as it's not intended to have one 🙂
@@ThinkingBetter I still use my Stax SRD 7/MK III earspeakers I bought in '78. Driving them with an SE OTL kit from Transcendent Sound along with a 300B based, Masterpiece, line stage. Still sound amazing so many years later
@@scottwolf8633 Gosh yes, I’ve bought several Stax headphones through the years and love the resolving qualities like nothing else. Some times I look at some extremely expensive system (like UD$200,000 system) in front of me and ask myself, where did all those fine details go? I just decided to listen to that old album Equinoxe of Jean Michel Jarre and wonder how the heck were those sonic details and audio quality even possible in 1978…that album and my Stax headphones probably were main contributors I became excited about audio turning me into audiophile, taking a college master engineering degree in audio and ending up in an audio related career doing R&D. Listen to that old 1978 album on your Stax headphones and tell me what you think…and yes, I also listen to a lot of instrumental music with natural voices.
@@scottwolf8633 SRX Mark IIIs are still my reference headphones (despite having newer Stax and other models). They sound best with a dedicated Stax driver instead of the SRD-7 and standard amp.
@@boblehman1726 Thanks for the heads up, but my SE OTL based on JJ Electronics EL 509 isn't a standard amp. Yet I can't disagree with your premise, that a Stax driver would be optimal. Question: are there any new driver amps from Stax that power the lower voltage of the MK III's?
I have a souped up Schumann Resonance Generator that allows sound to encapsulate around me with the glory of clear holographics. I still need a couple more weeks of break in to really know what this will really do.
But, music sounds clean and I can capture incredible amounts of depth, texture and layering.
My components are all tubes and all cables are silver.
I’m checking that song, Radioactivity, one minute in from the second track. The pshhhh sound seems to be in front of that beat on the right hand side.
I can feel that pshhhh like a ball being tossed with an arch and all.
Philips dacs are experts in creating a more immersive 3D holographic soundstage, a lot of songs has sounds that go to the listening position but average and crappy dacs only sounds like a 2D representation, so is more than hearing just behind the speakers and make them disapear, there is recordings like sound like Atmos but in a natural way
Tom Watts album, closing time. Track Icecream man. If you have the speakers well away from the wall the sound of the icecream van travels all around the room.
I have experienced this sort of effect with my modest setup and I'd attribute these mostly to wall reflections, especially when dipole speakers play into the room, with aggressive toe-in, while the rear beam bounces of the side wall. But not only with dipoles, speakers that cross fire in front of the listener may cause reflections from the opposite walls, in places where you'd not expect reflections, so they're likely not acoustically treated.
Finally, by mixing some signals out of phase across channels, sound engineers achieve unusual spacial effects.
best video ever, talk more , more often paul !!
🙋♂️PAUL,JUST NOW LISTENING 👂…AND I LOVE 💕 YOUR CHAIR 🪑 AND THE 🌎 GLOBE …I HOPE TERRY WILL LET YOU KEEP THEM 😅💚💚💚
My system is by all accounts room constrained. There isn't any way around it. And since I have had it, the sound stage for virtually everything is slightly out front. The speakers disappear completely. Various sounds appear well outside of the speaker arrangement. Some sound is further out in front. Some is slightly behind the speakers but mostly it sounds in front of the speakers. I find it pleasing.
Now, until recently I was not aware that the sound stage is supposed to be behind the speakers and I was perfectly happy with the way it was. But now there is a nagging discontentment that was not there before I learned this. Again, given the room constraints, everything else is optimally set up. So there is nothing else I can do.
In this video Paul says he has explained elsewhere why it is important for the sound stage to be behind the speaker and why it should be there.
I think, given my constraints, I'm going to put that discontentment aside and _not_ research why the sound stage is supposed to be behind the speakers. 😉
Sometimes you get those effects with phase shifting when the sound is not yet completely erased by opposite phases - and sometimes that's exactly what the creators wanted. Some phaser/flanger effect plugins/pedals can lead to that sound stage perception.
Listen to some of the recordings that the phenomenal guitar player Marcin has put out ! Soundstage and acoustics are mind blowing in my opinion.
I have my speakers 4 feet from the wall, 9 feet apart and 11 feet from my listening position and the wide sound stage comes from behind my speakers There are some recordings where some of the music comes directly from the speaker I find if you tweak your toe in, it can make it less pronounced, but usually I accept it's the recordings and not my stereo rig
Julian sounds like actors when TV first went 4K. Viewers could see actual skin defects. In the end, it just made characters more relatable.
To me the increase in resolution makes it all seem painfully fake.
I prefer 525/30 analog TV because it enhances the 'fantasy effect'.
A fireside chat with Paul. Always pleasant even when it drifts far afield.
I enjoy well recorded live events where there are unintended ambient sounds. Live at the Jazz Club is full of stuff that makes you feel like you are there. I don't really care for the sanitized studio recordings that much.
Don’t forget that there are also pseudo surround effects available that could be the cause of this. However, that Kraftwerk track is pretty old and I don’t think they were available those days. Your room and setup could also account for this oddity. During my time with this hobby I had to move to quite a few places and each one of them had some of them in stock for me. IMHO, nothing to worry about. Look at it like something very unique that only you can experience 😊
Short Reverb times on your Reverb Plugin /or Hardware will put Performers forward . Set Larger Reverb times/Larger rooms on that effect unit will put the performer back.
Just wondering what anybody’s take on 3D sound is. Apparently Queen did a few songs this way
Must be the neighborhood where Octave is located... a few decades ago the most real thing I ever heard come out of a speaker was at Coupe studios...
I have most of the voices in front of the speakers and rest is spread out. On all sides
On my speakers, the vocals lead always out front, and everything else is behind the speakers 🤔
100% I have the same situation. Heavy vocal recordings are very forward on my system - it seems like the singer is in front of my speakers and the band is sound staged from behind.
Most of the time that is caused by mismatching, input and output levels properly both Digital and Analog sources can overdrive or under drive the signal in home equipment .
When done correctly it will be the truest representation of the recording.
I recently heard an interview with Peter Comeau from IAG (Quad, Wharfedale, Audiolab, and more) where he explained how this works. Speaker designers can play with sound staging in the filter design. Increase the voice frequency spectrum a bit and the voice sounds in front of the speakers, and vice versa.
Where are you sitting, Paul ? How come you're not in the office/shop ? 🙂
How about Joe in Cebu Philippines question?
Paul, This is very good video. FIRST COMMENTS RULE! Aspen FR-30 speakers sound better than anything else I have ever heard. I wish I knew why some of your subscribers are so mean to me and act jealous of my system and my 1970 Superbird. I'm working a building a new set of speakers that are copies of the Aspen FR-30's but made of wood. They won't be as good but they will still be better than what most of your fans have I bet. I'm going to use them in my wood shop and keep the FR-30's in my summer mansion.
Low quality bait, nice try though
@@TheChills00 Not sure I understand. I got off on a lot of subjects like Paul did in the video.
Hi , in Australia, we call it " tall poppy syndrome " it is a jealous thing. Best let it go in one ear and out the other.
@@chuckmaddison2924 Thanks for the tip. I am reading about that "tall poppy syndrome" right now. I think you are right. Every time I leave a first comment they all start attacking me. Then when I leave a really good comment they attack me as well. Then I tell Paul how great the FR-30's are and they do the same thing yet again.
yea we weren't born yesterday , everyone can see a troll a mile off, aspen fr-30's lmao please
I don't buy this whole "music from the speakers sounds like a live band" idea. First of all, since what we hear is 50% room, the same performers would sound completely different from room to room. The same story with a speakers. So even if the material on a disc is somehow pefectly captured, your audio gear is 100% accurate, then your room will change the whole tonality. Next thing is you don't make a movie by pointing camera on a stage. Reproducing audio from a speakers is the whole art of itself and it can shift experience higher than liveact. And last but not least. Electronic music. How do you want achive liveact quality if there are no musicians, but only a producer and computer acting as a perfomer? Where would you set the "standard" in this case? Also the electronic music pushes audio gear to the extremes in every possible way that any live instrument can't.
I like what you have to say.
In this context, "live band" is referring to a level of imaging, instrument separation, and layering which would allow the listener to close their eyes and truly believe that the separate instruments (acoustic, electronic, effects, whatever) are physically in the the room instead of coming from speakers. This can be done with all genres of music, provided the recording is captured and mixed with that goal in mind. Most commercial recordings and audio systems (including commercial studios) don't fall in that category. And it can be difficult to imagine it's possible, until one hears it for themselves.
This guy obviously *doesn't* know who Kraftwerk are or what kind of music they produce!!
Then again, he claims to be vegetarian and proceeds to talk about eating sushi??
Many vegetarians eat fish, which aren’t animal meat. Also I pretty much hate all of Kraftwerk’s music, and Sushi, but I do eat meat.