Think you've gone in the wrong direction. It sounds like you think that you have to have super modern devices with streamers and active speakers, which is completely wrong. What you should start with is an ordinary, simple, high-quality integrated integrated or separate preamplifier. And perfectly normal good speakers and not active. If something is popular and many people buy it, that does not mean good, high quality, unfortunately. I think the problem is the Speakers you have. in most cases, the weakness is the speakers. Speakers are often not as good as you think. Have seen far too many cases where you start to wonder if the factory is trying to scam you out of money
@@davidkclaytonActive speakers can be as good as they are designed to be and can easily beat passive speakers due to better more precise cross-over filtering and direct amp per driver. My KEF LS60 do really well, for example.
That is Presuming that Paul has the time and inclination for that. A more realistic scenario would be to plan a nice vacation in Colorado and visit PS Audio.
Especially with speakers! I got some B&W 706 speaker as reference for my speaker building. They are excellent for basic woofer level etc. But they suck in enjoyment and I like my built speakers way more. They sound nearly the same except mine have a bit more throatiness in the voice sound ( but makes a way better soundstage). And the upper bass/lower med sounds really foofy on the B&Ws. But the 100 grand B&W Nautilus demo on YT sounds like my made speakers (more throaty than the 706s). 😅 They make the $2,000 B&W speakers sound bad on purpose, so they can sell their 100 grand Nautilus. 😢 Or (for some reason) I'm so gifted that I can make my $500 made speaker completely flog $2,000 speakers and sound nearly as good as 100 grand speakers. More like the former I reckon). I heard that a lot of home built speakers flogging bought speakers! GR Research (onYT) pulls apart bought speakers and is disappointed every time. It cost him $300 to fix $500 speakers and also $300 to fix 5 grand speakers (and originally the expensive speakers didn't sound much different to the $500 ones). 😅 Both needed fixing badly. Look him up. 😅
Room Treatment is the culprit. An untreated Room is better than a badly treated Room. I think Paul has given an excellent clue, when he pointed out that in a 'properly' acoustically treated room, when people speak, the sound is 'clearer', more 'live'.
I think many people build an unrealistic expectation in their head about how they’re going to feel about something and get let down by reality. This is often compounded with a little buyers remorse.
I have a high-end system in Zack's price range and some days and nights it blows me away and others I think "that's a nice hifi, okay." It's certainly not the same as "live," though sometimes the illusion of "live" is much stronger than others. It's normal to sometimes feel let down by a good sound system, but if it's consistent, it's either the system or system/room interaction itself, one's expectations, or both.
@@Canadian_Eh_I If it is all about the pleasure of listening to music, rather than owning and boasting about your system, I would recommend spending a tenth of what you have lost (and you have lost it) on your $50K hifi. Learn to love music. This is very sad, I feel.
$200 Pioneer SX-780 recapped, $50 Advent/1 recapped/re-foamed, $50 Sony SA-WM40 subwoofer, $100 Technics SL-1900 all tuned up, minimal damp/diffuse treatment in the room, all under $500 and I absolutely love it!
You people act as if you have to prove low cost audio equipment is enjoyable. Settle down, some people shove ear buds in their ears and crank the Mp3 (bottom of the barrel digital.) and enjoy the living hell out of it. There's no one out there that disapproves of low cost audio systems. Just like John Lennon wrote... ..."whatever gets you through the night"...
The truth about being an "Audiophile" is that one will simply never be satisfied even if they find the Ultimate Holy Grail, because their thirst for trying something new will always kick in.
That's why I bought an integrated valve amp, once my system is capable of doing valves justice I no longer care because my thirst for experimentation will be limited to valves. With the help of my RME ADI 2 that will do everything but make tea. Though my Focal Arias are wonderful chosen as they where not to influence the sound of my valves , they are the only part of my system I might change and that is because of an expensive South Corian speaker that I think would score 100% on my characteristics wish list.
I think one crucial distinction is between "great sound" or "great great sound" and "the Absolute Sound." TAS would be too expensive, time-consuming, subjective, and inconsistent/uncertain for me- and no equipment does absolutely everything better than any other. I just try to get really good sound out of my system on the budget/time/focus I can afford for it. Thus I'm an audiophile who's usually satisfied with my system, despite knowing its relatively weaker points.
well not exactly. expensive stuff can sound awful, sure, but on the other hand cheap stuff very rarely, if at all, can compete with true quality gear which is - well - expensive to manufacture thus expensive to purchase.
Having taken choirs on tour, the room made all the difference. Sometimes we were in a room with a low ceiling and accoustical tiles on the ceiling and it was like singing inside a sponge. Companies that accoustically treat rooms usually are hired to deaden a room for speaking. That's a killer for musical events.
I'm going to offer the Barry Schwartz counterpoint that the customer is a 'maximiser', going to painstaking lengths to ensure all the purchases are the best ones. Maximisers tend to have the least satisfaction with their purchases because their enjoyment from the purchase is not proportionate to the huge amount of time and effort that went into their final decision.
This was one of my thoughts too. His system may never match his expectations because he expects his carefully orchestrated expenditures to lead to 'nirvana'.
He didn't actually want a good sound, just the opportunity to boast, even if in an inverted manner, of how much he has spent on his hifi.His letter to Paul helps him in this way. He will never be satisfied, and needs to take a long look at himself.
I have to wonder that having the ability to spend so much money on audio gets in the way of expectations. 15 years ago before I retired I started conceiving would make my ears happy. So, you can scoff, but I listen all near field, in my basement, at my computer desk near the work bench. I've built all my own equipment, tube amps, except for the DAC, a cheap one. So all I can say is that I am thrilled to hear things in music that were not there 15 years ago as I learned in building my own equipment. It is a progressive thing, so I guess everyone has to find their own magic bullet as our ears are all different!
i think it's not about the systems , it's just that the present day recording industry and any sorts of listening productions , is not just up to par .
I think the biggest potential problem is that, when buying speakers, nobody else’s opinion matters but your own. There are some absolutely incredible speakers I have heard reaching well into the 5 figure range that I don’t find enjoyable in the least, despite being exceptionally revealing. You need to make sure first and foremost, that you enjoy the sound and look of your speakers, and ignore what anyone else says. You can have the flattest frequency response, with the most expensive speakers in the world, but if YOU don’t love their sound and get excited to listen, you should definitely find other speakers. AT a certain price point, every speaker does a good job, but you have to find one that makes you excited to listen to your favorite music again.
I agree with Paul here. I would also say it is the Room and the speakers and I am sure the speakers are good but everyone's hearing is not the same. This just proves the point that just because you spent a huge amount of money for a stereo system does not mean you will enjoy the best sound. Everyone's hearing is not the same and while a certain Stereo setup may sound awesome to you, someone else will say it is lacking to their ears, and the hard part is finding that stereo setup that blows your mind when you hear it
Paul has stated speakers being the most important factor in one’s system many times. I was never really on that camp until I experienced it myself. I have a pair of, I won’t mention the brand that is voiced so specifically, that when I went from a $450.00 amp to a 10k front end, it basically sounded damn near the same. The speakers never scaled up and it was crazy. It goes to show you, you have to experience it yourself to really understand it. As usual, Paul is pretty much dead on.
He bought what he could spend a lot of money on instead of what he liked the sound of, thinking he would like the sound of it just because he spent a lot of money on it.
Once you reach a certain level of fidelity it should be about finding the sound you love. I've recently moved to a hybrid tube/solidstate Mcintosh amp, which is cheaper than other amps I've used and definitely not a pure recreation of the studio sound, simply because it has the musical sweetness and warmth that makes me love my music. I came to the realisation late that I had surpassed the point where I wanted ultimate 'truth' and should be simply looking for what makes me happy
Trying out different speakers is worth a shot,but as active speakers are being used,the poster will need to add some new amps too,unless he looks at some other active alternatives.
One other thing that might reduce the excitement in a system is the wrong power conditioner. Some of them remove a lot of noise, but at the cost of dynamics. They can rip the soul out of a system.
I think Paul hit the nail on the head. Also, great sounding speakers can often overcome "average" electronics, but if the speakers don't match your room acoustics and/or your listening preferences, the highest-end electronics can never fully compensate. Three years ago, I bought a set of speakers that cost about $1500. They are driven by a very inexpensive integrated amp. However, the sound is glorious! Three years later, I still marvel at the detail and nuance they bring out in old recordings that I have been listening to for decades.
I've had cheap but well-balanced speakers sound glorious with high-end gear behind them, though obviously better speakers provide more dramatic improvement.
Agree with Paul. First thing I thought of was too much damping. On a personal note, I had a similar experience and got too caught up overthinking and being critical of every note, instrument placement in the recording, layering, height, depth, soundstage and the list goes on. As soon as I recognized I was analyzing and not listening, I just sat back, relaxed and began to enjoy the music.
My first thought as well. The acoustic treatments. I used to have heavy carpet and the sound was dull. Replaced it with hard flooring and some additional comfy chairs and it’s all singing and dancing.
Paul, I couldn't have said it better myself. The one thing I would add regarding the choice of speakers is that taste matters. Speaker reviews are like food reviews. Unless you eat it for yourself, you won't really know how much, if at all, you will actually enjoy it.
I don't think he mentions if he has a preamp. If he is going straight from the streamer/DAC to the active speakers(amp) he could be missing something there. When I connect my DAC directly to my amp it sounds incredibly detailed but thin. When I add my Naim 72 preamp things improve dramatically. Paul has discussed preamps before.
I'm with Paul on this. A Studio room is nothing like a listening room should be. You are probably suffering from a "sterile" environment, that is getting too close to an anechoic chamber. This will make the music sound lifeless. If you want to get technical, you need to aim for an average RT60 measurement around 600ms. This will keep a bit of liveliness. I managed to achieve this by covering the ceiling with 8mm (3/8") polystyrene panels/tiles and only a couple of diffusers in the room, nothing more. I can no longer "hear" my speakers, the soundstage is wide, deep and spacious and it didn't cost a lot to achieve! TIP: Start with no treatment and gradually add. Don't fill the room then start removing stuff. You may be surprised how little you often need to get it right.
It could be his ears as well. Maybe he can't hear some frequencys anymore or one ear hears different from the other. I would first go and find a System setup that I realy enjoy and try to mimic what I heared there. By compqring that to your own system you can find out what it is that you are missing in your setup.
Great tip there for quickly checking if the room treatment is the main culprit. I would add that his ' using flac files that have been ripped from CD' is a little vague. We all love flac files, but it's not always mentioned how they can differ depending on the settings used when ripping.
I'd warn against assigning a monetary value to excitement and pleasure. There seems to be an assumption that the more something costs, the better it must be. Worse, that your happiness is to be measured against the happiness of others in their systems. When is a system good enough? When it's good enough - FOR YOU. When I was younger, I loved my system and how it made music sound, yet is cost virtually nothing. Today I've got a modest system only. Don't endlessly chase an ideal, love the music.
I’m finding that a lack of warmth in one’s system can be huge. If the presentation lacks body and weight, it can sound great, but too clinical and thin.
I'm with you on that. He needs to identify what's bothering him before he can fix it,or he'll just be on a merry go round. I used to work in hifi retail and it would be a little frustrating when a customer would say "I don't like this,or that",but without being able to express why. You'd end up guessing what they might prefer rather than identifying some more specific areas like poor bass control, lack of dynamics etc. It can be difficult for some to pinpoint what they feel they need more or less of sometimes .
Room size and treatment for sure. I bought my system by listening to it first in a demo room where it blew my mind, it sounded unbelievable. Brought it home and sounded like crap. Ended up selling it. Big systems need big space.
I have spent silly amounts of money on so called high end gear and never liked any of it. I believe the reason is that I placed such high expectations on it that it could never live up to it. Every time I listened I was listening for flaws and it made me anxious all the time. For example, I bought a gyro-dec with an RB-300 and a Denon DL-110 cartridge and every time I heard the smallest pop or click I was annoyed as I expected perfection. I then found a Trio turntable in a skip, one of those stone plinthed ones. I took it out, cleaned it up, gave it a new stylus, just a basic eliptical, and fired it up and was smiling all the way. It cost me nothing, I had no expectations for it, although I could see it was a good model. So that became the basis for my belief in my hi-fi and it has served me well ever since. I now have a Technics SL-100C that has a Techincs EPC-207C cartridge on with a Tonar eliptical stylus on it, plugged into a Pioneer A-449 which is bi-wiring a pair of TDL Studio 1M speakers. I could not be happier :D
I would say that the problem is "lack of education". We need to learn to listen BEFORE we start picking gear. We need to take advantage of home try out schemes.
I've got a very, very basic and cheap system at work to listen to the radio or Spotify, and I'm often surprised at how good is sounds - no I'm not saying it's anything like a high end system (I've never, and never will hear high end anyway) but it seems to be much more than the sum of it's parts. I often thing that I probably get more joy from it than someone who's bought a system to show off how much money that they've spent.
Exactly. He doesn't want good sound, just an opportunity to tell everyone how much he has spent. The money would have been better spent on therapy, and charity. What a dickhead.
I think the reason is you’re too anxious about your equipment so that you can’t enjoy the music. Mood affects enjoyment of music than everything else. Go and listen to a much less costly music system in your best mood and you feel it’s sound better than your expensive system. You can throw more money to get what you want but you might not going to enjoy music, because you’re still searching for better experience and finding faults in the existing system. It’s psychological and thats how audio manufacturers and expensive audio accessory companies make money.
Great point. I also think that after the initial impact of an upgrade wears off, it’s easy to start finding faults with a system. Familiarity can result in the listener forgetting how their system sounded before the last upgrade so I think your advice of listening to familiar music on a less capable system makes sense. One alternative is to listen to an album that has not been played since the last upgrade as this will hopefully reveal how much better the system sounds, assuming that’s an option. I also agree that mood can have an effect. It can sometimes be a case of listening to the system rather the music, which I will admit to have been guilty of.
The Dutch & Dutch 8C’s do sound amazing in terms of tone, coherence, accuracy. They are standmounts. Therefore what you might be missing is the fun and “oomph” of a floorstanding speaker or a subwoofer. Try adding an inexpensive subwoofer or two (to test) if you wish to keep the Dutch & Dutches.
The Dutch & Dutch 8C have surprisingly good low end. They are designed to couple with the head wall to reinforce the bass response. The owner probably won’t see my response buried down here, but he should set his speakers up in a near field presentation, eliminating the room, and see how he feels about their sound. If this improves what he hears, it is the room. I own a pair of D& D 8C.
It's so simple, and I don't understand why people don't get this: there's no guarantee that something costly is going to be better, in any branch of life! The expectation alone is naïve. What's mostly true, if not always, is that higher quality is going to come at a price. In a nutshell: while there is such a thing as quality/price ratio, best think of it as a one-way.
The equipment doesn’t do nearly as much for me as the music performance (and maybe the recording) itself. I’ve repeatedly heard great music on near failing grade equipment. As for my rooms, I just have carpeting on the floor and that’s all I need for “sound absorption.”
Paul, would you please answer yesterday's question again but as-if they meant digital coax from the CD player to their power amp? You can explain the difference between how a properly constructed 75 ohm cable carries data and how cheap RCA cables can compromise their ability to carry that same data stream. 👍😎🇦🇺
I used to have this debate with people all the time. Digital is Digital and it really shouldn't matter which RCA cable you use. As long as they get the signal to the device. There is no sound to a digital signal
@@musicman8270 I understand this. I'm referring to the spaghetti-mess of cables many people have behind their setups. Power noise (hence dropped bits) on cheap unshielded RCA's happens. I've seen it myself, albeit sending extremely high frequency PCM from a PC using a very long, cheap, and old RCA cable as a coax and comparing it with an equally long high quality coax cable I had terminated myself at both ends. I know digital is definitely digital and cables don't 'flavour' that but I still recommend high quality shielded cables to anyone intending to transmit any high bitrate audio over any distance within a regular home. Especially if their cable management requires the extra shielding. I wouldn't go so far to recommend people get gold-tipped cables or anything like that. Just each terminal end has a good 'bite' on the connection, with a good shielded cable in between. In the case where Paul's answer referred to the ANALOGUE-OUTS of a CD player, shielded cables are even MORE important if you don't want to introduce cable hiss (which only gets amplified). That's why I always use the DAC in my amp. I transport everything digitally, except my phono deck, and the analogue-outs from my Laserdisc player and Minidisc deck. I should have been clearer in my original comment. 👍😎
@@musicman8270 Under normal circumstances, neither have I. - but I'm not going to recommend that anyone use cheap unshielded cables, _especially_ if they're just starting out in audio.
@@subliminalvibes At the turn of the century I bought about a thousand dollars (2;000 now) worth of Monster cables. They seemed well constructed. Most of them I still have. They were a great investment. A great system Depends on details. Good luck. Surprized you have a Laserdisc player that still works. My second one died 25 years ago
I third/fourth/tenth what Paul is saying. I remember going to a high-end manufacturer whose electronics I've bought and enjoyed over the years, fronting speakers I knew and liked, and being fairly underwhelmed hearing them with music I knew and loved- and in retrospect realized that the listening room had been over-damped. In general, I think an under-damped room is better than an over-damped one. Otherwise, maybe the speakers- and remember- the sound you like is what's important, not the "Absolute Sound" or anyone's impression of it.
My setup is about 7K and my pre&power amp is 30yrs old. I had them "upgraded" with an upgrade kit about 8 yrs ago. I stopped long ago believing what Audiophiles wrote. I took my daughter a few years ago to buy a new set of speakers. We listened to a number of them. We both preferred the less expensive speaker over the more expensive. When at home they sounded as good as in the listening room at the HiFi shop. And we have no "modified" room. And lets not forget this. It is about the music. If you are just listening to your sound system, you are missing the point.
I know that I'm not the final word, but... My thought is that the more likely culprit is the room. As Paul notes, our listening spaces are not the same as professional acoustic spaces. While the speakers may not match the PS Audio Aspen series, I feel that it is likely that they could do a very good job - given a properly treated audio listening room. As Paul noted, one easy test for this is to listen to the room with people as the sound source. If your friends and family don't sound right in the room, then music NEVER will. If it sounds dead (likely) then it needs to be redone. Fortunately, it should be relatively easy to undo at least some of the "professional" acoustic treatment and see if that helps or hinders the experience.
The listener and what music they listen to is key. What really would make the listener satisfied, excited and enjoy their system is based on their prior listening experiences, both live and recorded. I'm an audiophile but it is such a slippery slope. Not enough is said and explained as to the limitations of replicating an artificial musical experience. The pros such as Paul McGowan (yes, I own PSAudio equipment), might want to explore this topic of a very subjective experience. Thanks, Paul for all that you bring forth.
Yup. I saw once dude commenting on a forum. He has cheap yamaha and he spent 5000 usd on a higher end gear. Few days layer he wrote that his cheaper yamaha had sounded better than 5k usd gear
@@pioneernut7487it may be that he was on the older side, and started to loose the hearing (as we all do) in the higher frequencies. Maybe his Yamaha system was brighter? :)
As he's in Ireland like myself HI Fi is very expensive in Ireland. He's probably talking in euros. A ten thousand dollar system in the States would cost about 20 thousand euros over here.
@@PatKennedydon Isn't that depending on the specific brands? I don't know the Irish scene but I live in Sweden and have seen some prices in other European countries and some things are more expensive here than in the US, but at other times it's the opposite. Obviously US made gear is cheaper there and vice versa for European gear, but I've also seen some high end Japanese gear be significantly cheaper here than in the US. US prices is also always listed without VAT, which can skew perception.
I think that these speakers are designed primarily for studio use in near to mid field monitoring applications. This could be the issue here and they also have room correction built into them. If this is not configured correctly the combination with the room treatments could make them sound wrong.
A common failure of all audiophiles: purchasing based on what a technical spec sheet reads. "Look at these numbers! According to the specs this piece of equipment is incredibly accurate at reproducing (insert whatever seems important). I gotta buy it!" I've heard a number of fantastic low budget systems (e.g., less than $4K). The science is listening with your ears and piecing a system together, not reading from a spec sheet. Once you get over the spec sheet hurdle, you'll be on your way to creating a great system.
And on the other side of the spectrum, most of my equipment was given to me for free, or used and costs a few hundred dollars here and there, and some of it needed a little work. But it puts a smile from ear to ear every time. But money is relative and the law of diminished returns is always at play. I hope this gentlemen can figure out why his system is not engaging like mine is to me. Paul's explanation is probably right, fix the room, change the speakers and he should be good to go. Also lose any power conditioners in series with the equipment as these can hinder current, and use a quality hardwired parallel surge protector, like MCG, at the panel that feeds the audio equipment. Cheers, and good luck.
Wrong choice of speakers. That pair of speakers is monitor type. More than half of audiophiles will regret after acquiring this type of speakers after a while.
I don’t get this: audiophiles that go separate everything (source, DAC, power conditioners, uber-expensive cables and interconects) and then use powered speakers! Just get a good integrated amp (or a pre &power) and try as many speakers as you can! Where I’m from, the law requires full refund for anything you bought online in a 30-days window.
Eq'ing your speaker might help get them how you like. Buying different speakers is often about the particular EQ. They might not be to your taste. But an EQ could be your saving grace.
Technical question : knowing the DAC accepts zeros and ones, in the case of a DSD file flowing toward the DAC, what does the high-frequency modulation from the zeros and ones on the file, the DAC or the computer ?
Zake, take your speakers to a friend's (who has a roughly similar quality system) place where you like the sound. swap yours in & see if they sound better to you there. if there is a notable improvement, then see if you can remove as much damping material as possible from your room. note an improvement? this kinda approach (take 'em to multiple friends listening rooms / have those folk listen in your room / drag 'em to a "bright" room & see if you like that sound more, etc. - what fun!) is time & labor rich. however, you aren't buying more hardware, you are isolating the issue(s) that disturb your listening pleasure.
Maybe it's connected incorrectly. The other month in Montreal the ps audio speakers, think fr10s, sounded horrendous. Day 1 and everyone was walking out unimpressed, room didn't have than many people listening. Day 2 people said they fixed the problem but i didn't go back, such a rookie mistake. I wish your speakers at least sounded "meh" but oh boy so bad.
Suspect "over damped" room? Take the system to another room. Friend's home. Most "Live" rooms in my house are the garage/carport and bathroom. Clap your hands in there and it pings back at you. I recall Sonab had tweeters pointed in all different directions. It liked if not needed reflections. A dead room would absolutely kill it.
Try some different music, on top of what Paul says. Duke Ellington's Blues in Orbit and Jazz Party (in Stereo) are great, lively recordings. If they sound dull, you've got a really over damped room or speaker compensation. Then the album John Coltrane and Johnny Hartmann for quiet vocals in a small group. I'm so glad that my $2000 system responds to pulling my position another 6" away from the nearest wall. The tonal balance is already good but moving my ears puts space into the sound stage.
Hi Zack! I think before selling the speakers and "de-treating" the room you should buy a quality SUBWOOFER! That will change EVERYTHING ;) get the crossover correct and go from there ;)
I find that the type of music and quality of the recording makes all the difference in the world. For my money, jazz recordings from ECM and Gondwana labels are some of the best out there. Most other genres of music sound too compressed to excite me, i.e. there's no space around the instruments/notes like you get from a carefully engineered jazz recording.
Build the gear yourself. My second pair of speakers, made up of the Raal 140-15D, Lowther DX 65, (2) Jordan 150 NG's/channel, the moving coils all loaded into 12 foot long waveguides, cost 4500 bucks, for the drivers. My two OTLs, monobloc, Class AB, 60Watts into 16 Ohms and a single ended Minibeast at 7 Watts, also into 16 Ohms, maybe 3+ grand. My Audio Note kit DAC a couple of grand. If you pay others to build your gear, you're paying what the market will demand. And the prices commanded today, are completely insane.
The key is when he says speakers that “everyone raves about”. He bought them because he felt he was supposed to like them
Yes, How many times I've heard (read) people and reviewer's rave on about a product and then buy it and not been happy.
Think you've gone in the wrong direction. It sounds like you think that you have to have super modern devices with streamers and active speakers, which is completely wrong.
What you should start with is an ordinary, simple, high-quality integrated integrated or separate preamplifier.
And perfectly normal good speakers and not active.
If something is popular and many people buy it, that does not mean good, high quality, unfortunately.
I think the problem is the Speakers you have. in most cases, the weakness is the speakers.
Speakers are often not as good as you think. Have seen far too many cases where you start to wonder if the factory is trying to scam you out of money
@@ford1546 Yes, I would agree on active speakers. They are better suited for background music
I dont all for catch phrases, espcially everybody loves these blablabla
@@davidkclaytonActive speakers can be as good as they are designed to be and can easily beat passive speakers due to better more precise cross-over filtering and direct amp per driver. My KEF LS60 do really well, for example.
If you can afford all that… fly Paul in to see & hear your system!
That is Presuming that Paul has the time and inclination for that. A more realistic scenario would be to plan a nice vacation in Colorado and visit PS Audio.
@@hugobloemers4425 Yep do that 💪
"I don't enjoy the sound of my system as much as I think I should." This is the cornerstone upon which the audiophile industry is built.
Especially with speakers! I got some B&W 706 speaker as reference for my speaker building. They are excellent for basic woofer level etc. But they suck in enjoyment and I like my built speakers way more. They sound nearly the same except mine have a bit more throatiness in the voice sound ( but makes a way better soundstage). And the upper bass/lower med sounds really foofy on the B&Ws. But the 100 grand B&W Nautilus demo on YT sounds like my made speakers (more throaty than the 706s). 😅 They make the $2,000 B&W speakers sound bad on purpose, so they can sell their 100 grand Nautilus. 😢 Or (for some reason) I'm so gifted that I can make my $500 made speaker completely flog $2,000 speakers and sound nearly as good as 100 grand speakers. More like the former I reckon). I heard that a lot of home built speakers flogging bought speakers! GR Research (onYT) pulls apart bought speakers and is disappointed every time. It cost him $300 to fix $500 speakers and also $300 to fix 5 grand speakers (and originally the expensive speakers didn't sound much different to the $500 ones). 😅 Both needed fixing badly. Look him up. 😅
Room Treatment is the culprit.
An untreated Room is better than a badly treated Room.
I think Paul has given an excellent clue, when he pointed out that in a 'properly' acoustically treated room, when people speak, the sound is 'clearer', more 'live'.
I think many people build an unrealistic expectation in their head about how they’re going to feel about something and get let down by reality. This is often compounded with a little buyers remorse.
I'm definitely guilty of that!
Yes, this is why I build my own speakers. Its the enjoyment of the process along with the music. Much more gratifying than just buying it
I have a high-end system in Zack's price range and some days and nights it blows me away and others I think "that's a nice hifi, okay." It's certainly not the same as "live," though sometimes the illusion of "live" is much stronger than others. It's normal to sometimes feel let down by a good sound system, but if it's consistent, it's either the system or system/room interaction itself, one's expectations, or both.
@@Canadian_Eh_I If it is all about the pleasure of listening to music, rather than owning and boasting about your system, I would recommend spending a tenth of what you have lost (and you have lost it) on your $50K hifi. Learn to love music. This is very sad, I feel.
@@barlow2976 Were you trying to reply to someone else? I havent spent nearly that much money on hifi. I build my own stuff for fun.
My foot taps when I listen to my $5000 stereo. Mission accomplished. No room treatments, no crazy cabling. Very old pair Mirage M3's.
$300 sansui 4000, $125 minty large advents, $25 estate sale Pioneer pl-518... dancing around the room for under $500
$200 Pioneer SX-780 recapped, $50 Advent/1 recapped/re-foamed, $50 Sony SA-WM40 subwoofer, $100 Technics SL-1900 all tuned up, minimal damp/diffuse treatment in the room, all under $500 and I absolutely love it!
You people act as if you have to prove low cost audio equipment is enjoyable. Settle down, some people shove ear buds in their ears and crank the Mp3 (bottom of the barrel digital.) and enjoy the living hell out of it. There's no one out there that disapproves of low cost audio systems.
Just like John Lennon wrote... ..."whatever gets you through the night"...
Mirage M3s are fun speakers. I worked for a Mirage dealer back in the '90s and loved the whole bipolar aesthetic...so did my cats!
@@Mark-lq3sb show me on the doll where the budget audio file hurt you
The truth about being an "Audiophile" is that one will simply never be satisfied even if they find the Ultimate Holy Grail, because their thirst for trying something new will always kick in.
That's why I bought an integrated valve amp, once my system is capable of doing valves justice I no longer care because my thirst for experimentation will be limited to valves.
With the help of my RME ADI 2 that will do everything but make tea. Though my Focal Arias are wonderful chosen as they where not to influence the sound of my valves , they are the only part of my system I might change and that is because of an expensive South Corian speaker that I think would score 100% on my characteristics wish list.
I agree. I bought the Hegel 390 and it’s great, but I have a Chinese Cayin tubes amp, costing four times less and that’s the one I listen to the most!
@@notenote2004 Interesting you should say that because before I took the 'risk' of buying a valve amp I had considered the Hagle (190) as my safe bet.
I think one crucial distinction is between "great sound" or "great great sound" and "the Absolute Sound." TAS would be too expensive, time-consuming, subjective, and inconsistent/uncertain for me- and no equipment does absolutely everything better than any other. I just try to get really good sound out of my system on the budget/time/focus I can afford for it. Thus I'm an audiophile who's usually satisfied with my system, despite knowing its relatively weaker points.
@@johnh539 Cayin CS55 A, just try to listen to one..!
*Because it is obvious that the price, especially of audio equipment, DOES NOT DETERMINE its quality in any way!*
well not exactly. expensive stuff can sound awful, sure, but on the other hand cheap stuff very rarely, if at all, can compete with true quality gear which is - well - expensive to manufacture thus expensive to purchase.
Sounds likes like the time to demo a pair of FR 30’s
50 grand on a home system. Certifiable.
Having taken choirs on tour, the room made all the difference. Sometimes we were in a room with a low ceiling and accoustical tiles on the ceiling and it was like singing inside a sponge. Companies that accoustically treat rooms usually are hired to deaden a room for speaking. That's a killer for musical events.
Sometimes it’s also the listener chasing something unobtainable.
I'm going to offer the Barry Schwartz counterpoint that the customer is a 'maximiser', going to painstaking lengths to ensure all the purchases are the best ones. Maximisers tend to have the least satisfaction with their purchases because their enjoyment from the purchase is not proportionate to the huge amount of time and effort that went into their final decision.
This was one of my thoughts too. His system may never match his expectations because he expects his carefully orchestrated expenditures to lead to 'nirvana'.
He didn't actually want a good sound, just the opportunity to boast, even if in an inverted manner, of how much he has spent on his hifi.His letter to Paul helps him in this way. He will never be satisfied, and needs to take a long look at himself.
I have to wonder that having the ability to spend so much money on audio gets in the way of expectations. 15 years ago before I retired I started conceiving would make my ears happy. So, you can scoff, but I listen all near field, in my basement, at my computer desk near the work bench. I've built all my own equipment, tube amps, except for the DAC, a cheap one. So all I can say is that I am thrilled to hear things in music that were not there 15 years ago as I learned in building my own equipment. It is a progressive thing, so I guess everyone has to find their own magic bullet as our ears are all different!
I would agree with Paul. I over damped my own room, and the sound was just dead. Not all reflections are bad🤔
i think it's not about the systems , it's just that the present day recording industry and any sorts of listening productions , is not just up to par .
Goes to show spending lots of money on a system does not always buy great sound.
I think the biggest potential problem is that, when buying speakers, nobody else’s opinion matters but your own. There are some absolutely incredible speakers I have heard reaching well into the 5 figure range that I don’t find enjoyable in the least, despite being exceptionally revealing.
You need to make sure first and foremost, that you enjoy the sound and look of your speakers, and ignore what anyone else says. You can have the flattest frequency response, with the most expensive speakers in the world, but if YOU don’t love their sound and get excited to listen, you should definitely find other speakers. AT a certain price point, every speaker does a good job, but you have to find one that makes you excited to listen to your favorite music again.
I agree with Paul here. I would also say it is the Room and the speakers and I am sure the speakers are good but everyone's hearing is not the same. This just proves the point that just because you spent a huge amount of money for a stereo system does not mean you will enjoy the best sound. Everyone's hearing is not the same and while a certain Stereo setup may sound awesome to you, someone else will say it is lacking to their ears, and the hard part is finding that stereo setup that blows your mind when you hear it
I take long breaks from my main rig. Sometimes months. When you come back, it’s epic sounding again.
In my case the system sounds bad when I had listened to crappy airpods pro before… It’s psychoaccoustics (ears can be tuned to that crap)
Paul has stated speakers being the most important factor in one’s system many times. I was never really on that camp until I experienced it myself. I have a pair of, I won’t mention the brand that is voiced so specifically, that when I went from a $450.00 amp to a 10k front end, it basically sounded damn near the same. The speakers never scaled up and it was crazy. It goes to show you, you have to experience it yourself to really understand it. As usual, Paul is pretty much dead on.
Speakers don't "scale up" (say wah?) lol. Paul is full of it and gullible people buy his outrageously priced gear because they believe in magic.
I've heard sources and electronics of mine scale up as I got better ger, though certainly not on the same scale as with speakers
Spent some money on the ear doctor.
50 grand is nothing.... Quadruple it, so you can call yourself an apprentice of a junior audiofile! Just kidding, go with Paul's advice 😂
And that right there is the main problem!
Synergy between components ...or rinse youre sinus 😊..
My 5000 dollar set sounds awesome..everyday i enjoy it.
What does that say?
Great video Paul. Now go change that light bulb!😁
He bought what he could spend a lot of money on instead of what he liked the sound of, thinking he would like the sound of it just because he spent a lot of money on it.
Once you reach a certain level of fidelity it should be about finding the sound you love.
I've recently moved to a hybrid tube/solidstate Mcintosh amp, which is cheaper than other amps I've used and definitely not a pure recreation of the studio sound, simply because it has the musical sweetness and warmth that makes me love my music. I came to the realisation late that I had surpassed the point where I wanted ultimate 'truth' and should be simply looking for what makes me happy
Trying out different speakers is worth a shot,but as active speakers are being used,the poster will need to add some new amps too,unless he looks at some other active alternatives.
The infinite pit of insatiable desire is a terrible place to be.
One other thing that might reduce the excitement in a system is the wrong power conditioner. Some of them remove a lot of noise, but at the cost of dynamics. They can rip the soul out of a system.
I think Paul hit the nail on the head. Also, great sounding speakers can often overcome "average" electronics, but if the speakers don't match your room acoustics and/or your listening preferences, the highest-end electronics can never fully compensate. Three years ago, I bought a set of speakers that cost about $1500. They are driven by a very inexpensive integrated amp. However, the sound is glorious! Three years later, I still marvel at the detail and nuance they bring out in old recordings that I have been listening to for decades.
I've had cheap but well-balanced speakers sound glorious with high-end gear behind them, though obviously better speakers provide more dramatic improvement.
Agree with Paul. First thing I thought of was too much damping. On a personal note, I had a similar experience and got too caught up overthinking and being critical of every note, instrument placement in the recording, layering, height, depth, soundstage and the list goes on. As soon as I recognized I was analyzing and not listening, I just sat back, relaxed and began to enjoy the music.
My first thought as well. The acoustic treatments. I used to have heavy carpet and the sound was dull. Replaced it with hard flooring and some additional comfy chairs and it’s all singing and dancing.
New Record Day
👉Mastering Room Acoustics: Your Complete Guide To Perfect Sound!
ua-cam.com/video/M_Kck6RmXEc/v-deo.html
Paul, I couldn't have said it better myself. The one thing I would add regarding the choice of speakers is that taste matters. Speaker reviews are like food reviews. Unless you eat it for yourself, you won't really know how much, if at all, you will actually enjoy it.
I don't think he mentions if he has a preamp. If he is going straight from the streamer/DAC to the active speakers(amp) he could be missing something there. When I connect my DAC directly to my amp it sounds incredibly detailed but thin. When I add my Naim 72 preamp things improve dramatically. Paul has discussed preamps before.
I'm with Paul on this. A Studio room is nothing like a listening room should be. You are probably suffering from a "sterile" environment, that is getting too close to an anechoic chamber. This will make the music sound lifeless. If you want to get technical, you need to aim for an average RT60 measurement around 600ms. This will keep a bit of liveliness.
I managed to achieve this by covering the ceiling with 8mm (3/8") polystyrene panels/tiles and only a couple of diffusers in the room, nothing more. I can no longer "hear" my speakers, the soundstage is wide, deep and spacious and it didn't cost a lot to achieve!
TIP: Start with no treatment and gradually add. Don't fill the room then start removing stuff. You may be surprised how little you often need to get it right.
It could be his ears as well. Maybe he can't hear some frequencys anymore or one ear hears different from the other. I would first go and find a System setup that I realy enjoy and try to mimic what I heared there. By compqring that to your own system you can find out what it is that you are missing in your setup.
Very good advice for a difficult situation Paul.
Great tip there for quickly checking if the room treatment is the main culprit.
I would add that his ' using flac files that have been ripped from CD' is a little vague. We all love flac files, but it's not always mentioned how they can differ depending on the settings used when ripping.
I'd warn against assigning a monetary value to excitement and pleasure. There seems to be an assumption that the more something costs, the better it must be. Worse, that your happiness is to be measured against the happiness of others in their systems. When is a system good enough? When it's good enough - FOR YOU. When I was younger, I loved my system and how it made music sound, yet is cost virtually nothing. Today I've got a modest system only. Don't endlessly chase an ideal, love the music.
He doesn't love the music, he loves owning, wanting, and boasting about over-priced hifi.
What does he mean by “don’t like”; lack of clarity, soundstage, realism, too Bhoomi, not enough bass?
Don't like can be just as simple as "it does not make me happy", or "not getting my dopamine fix".
I’m finding that a lack of warmth in one’s system can be huge. If the presentation lacks body and weight, it can sound great, but too clinical and thin.
I'm with you on that. He needs to identify what's bothering him before he can fix it,or he'll just be on a merry go round. I used to work in hifi retail and it would be a little frustrating when a customer would say "I don't like this,or that",but without being able to express why. You'd end up guessing what they might prefer rather than identifying some more specific areas like poor bass control, lack of dynamics etc. It can be difficult for some to pinpoint what they feel they need more or less of sometimes .
Room size and treatment for sure. I bought my system by listening to it first in a demo room where it blew my mind, it sounded unbelievable. Brought it home and sounded like crap. Ended up selling it. Big systems need big space.
And also bring the speakers far away from the walls.
I have spent silly amounts of money on so called high end gear and never liked any of it. I believe the reason is that I placed such high expectations on it that it could never live up to it. Every time I listened I was listening for flaws and it made me anxious all the time. For example, I bought a gyro-dec with an RB-300 and a Denon DL-110 cartridge and every time I heard the smallest pop or click I was annoyed as I expected perfection. I then found a Trio turntable in a skip, one of those stone plinthed ones. I took it out, cleaned it up, gave it a new stylus, just a basic eliptical, and fired it up and was smiling all the way. It cost me nothing, I had no expectations for it, although I could see it was a good model. So that became the basis for my belief in my hi-fi and it has served me well ever since. I now have a Technics SL-100C that has a Techincs EPC-207C cartridge on with a Tonar eliptical stylus on it, plugged into a Pioneer A-449 which is bi-wiring a pair of TDL Studio 1M speakers. I could not be happier :D
Paul is right again and tells it wonderful! 😊 I love his style.
He forgot to turn off the Normalize loudness button in his streamer.
As usual from paul some very keen insights as to how to solve a problem without dumping further unnecessary money into it
I would say that the problem is "lack of education". We need to learn to listen BEFORE we start picking gear. We need to take advantage of home try out schemes.
Many times I had the same problem. For me now, medium and high ribbons work very well.
Oh I've been there before over the years.
Sounds familiar.
I think it might be either his ears or expectations.
Wrong speakers maybe but…. Room is dead … over damped room ..
And yet the room is arguably the most important component in an audio system.
I've got a very, very basic and cheap system at work to listen to the radio or Spotify, and I'm often surprised at how good is sounds - no I'm not saying it's anything like a high end system (I've never, and never will hear high end anyway) but it seems to be much more than the sum of it's parts. I often thing that I probably get more joy from it than someone who's bought a system to show off how much money that they've spent.
Exactly. He doesn't want good sound, just an opportunity to tell everyone how much he has spent. The money would have been better spent on therapy, and charity. What a dickhead.
perhaps he should spend some money hiring a music sound adjustment Specialists to treat his room & calibrate his system
Man that is brutal to hear!
Would be really nice to know more information.
I think the reason is you’re too anxious about your equipment so that you can’t enjoy the music. Mood affects enjoyment of music than everything else. Go and listen to a much less costly music system in your best mood and you feel it’s sound better than your expensive system. You can throw more money to get what you want but you might not going to enjoy music, because you’re still searching for better experience and finding faults in the existing system. It’s psychological and thats how audio manufacturers and expensive audio accessory companies make money.
Great point. I also think that after the initial impact of an upgrade wears off, it’s easy to start finding faults with a system. Familiarity can result in the listener forgetting how their system sounded before the last upgrade so I think your advice of listening to familiar music on a less capable system makes sense. One alternative is to listen to an album that has not been played since the last upgrade as this will hopefully reveal how much better the system sounds, assuming that’s an option. I also agree that mood can have an effect. It can sometimes be a case of listening to the system rather the music, which I will admit to have been guilty of.
I wish I knew you intimately so you could inject wisdom into all the loved ones in my life! Thank you
The Dutch & Dutch 8C’s do sound amazing in terms of tone, coherence, accuracy. They are standmounts. Therefore what you might be missing is the fun and “oomph” of a floorstanding speaker or a subwoofer. Try adding an inexpensive subwoofer or two (to test) if you wish to keep the Dutch & Dutches.
The Dutch & Dutch 8C have surprisingly good low end. They are designed to couple with the head wall to reinforce the bass response. The owner probably won’t see my response buried down here, but he should set his speakers up in a near field presentation, eliminating the room, and see how he feels about their sound. If this improves what he hears, it is the room. I own a pair of D& D 8C.
Expectations is the key. Bought these new analytic speakers, and they gave me just a overwhelming feeling of fatigue and frustration
It's so simple, and I don't understand why people don't get this: there's no guarantee that something costly is going to be better, in any branch of life! The expectation alone is naïve. What's mostly true, if not always, is that higher quality is going to come at a price. In a nutshell: while there is such a thing as quality/price ratio, best think of it as a one-way.
I would start by trying passive speakers and a separate amp. which could work well in the existing room setup.
The equipment doesn’t do nearly as much for me as the music performance (and maybe the recording) itself. I’ve repeatedly heard great music on near failing grade equipment. As for my rooms, I just have carpeting on the floor and that’s all I need for “sound absorption.”
Paul, would you please answer yesterday's question again but as-if they meant digital coax from the CD player to their power amp? You can explain the difference between how a properly constructed 75 ohm cable carries data and how cheap RCA cables can compromise their ability to carry that same data stream. 👍😎🇦🇺
I used to have this debate with people all the time.
Digital is Digital and it really shouldn't matter which RCA cable you use. As long as they get the signal to the device. There is no sound to a digital signal
@@musicman8270 I understand this. I'm referring to the spaghetti-mess of cables many people have behind their setups. Power noise (hence dropped bits) on cheap unshielded RCA's happens. I've seen it myself, albeit sending extremely high frequency PCM from a PC using a very long, cheap, and old RCA cable as a coax and comparing it with an equally long high quality coax cable I had terminated myself at both ends.
I know digital is definitely digital and cables don't 'flavour' that but I still recommend high quality shielded cables to anyone intending to transmit any high bitrate audio over any distance within a regular home. Especially if their cable management requires the extra shielding. I wouldn't go so far to recommend people get gold-tipped cables or anything like that. Just each terminal end has a good 'bite' on the connection, with a good shielded cable in between.
In the case where Paul's answer referred to the ANALOGUE-OUTS of a CD player, shielded cables are even MORE important if you don't want to introduce cable hiss (which only gets amplified). That's why I always use the DAC in my amp. I transport everything digitally, except my phono deck, and the analogue-outs from my Laserdisc player and Minidisc deck.
I should have been clearer in my original comment. 👍😎
@@subliminalvibes I've never had power interfere with a digital signal. Error correction should fix any minor diviations.
Anyway, good luck.
@@musicman8270 Under normal circumstances, neither have I. - but I'm not going to recommend that anyone use cheap unshielded cables, _especially_ if they're just starting out in audio.
@@subliminalvibes At the turn of the century I bought about a thousand dollars (2;000 now) worth of Monster cables. They seemed well constructed. Most of them I still have. They were a great investment. A great system
Depends on details. Good luck.
Surprized you have a Laserdisc player that still works. My second one died 25 years ago
The problem is two fold. Listening to others opinions instead of actually listening. Assuming spending more always gets you more.
I third/fourth/tenth what Paul is saying. I remember going to a high-end manufacturer whose electronics I've bought and enjoyed over the years, fronting speakers I knew and liked, and being fairly underwhelmed hearing them with music I knew and loved- and in retrospect realized that the listening room had been over-damped. In general, I think an under-damped room is better than an over-damped one. Otherwise, maybe the speakers- and remember- the sound you like is what's important, not the "Absolute Sound" or anyone's impression of it.
The first thing everyone should do is make sure their hearing is as it should be. If your hearing is diminished.....
My setup is about 7K and my pre&power amp is 30yrs old. I had them "upgraded" with an upgrade kit about 8 yrs ago. I stopped long ago believing what Audiophiles wrote. I took my daughter a few years ago to buy a new set of speakers. We listened to a number of them. We both preferred the less expensive speaker over the more expensive. When at home they sounded as good as in the listening room at the HiFi shop. And we have no "modified" room. And lets not forget this. It is about the music. If you are just listening to your sound system, you are missing the point.
I know that I'm not the final word, but... My thought is that the more likely culprit is the room. As Paul notes, our listening spaces are not the same as professional acoustic spaces. While the speakers may not match the PS Audio Aspen series, I feel that it is likely that they could do a very good job - given a properly treated audio listening room. As Paul noted, one easy test for this is to listen to the room with people as the sound source. If your friends and family don't sound right in the room, then music NEVER will. If it sounds dead (likely) then it needs to be redone. Fortunately, it should be relatively easy to undo at least some of the "professional" acoustic treatment and see if that helps or hinders the experience.
Some great advice here!
The listener and what music they listen to is key. What really would make the listener satisfied, excited and enjoy their system is based on their prior listening experiences, both live and recorded. I'm an audiophile but it is such a slippery slope. Not enough is said and explained as to the limitations of replicating an artificial musical experience. The pros such as Paul McGowan (yes, I own PSAudio equipment), might want to explore this topic of a very subjective experience. Thanks, Paul for all that you bring forth.
Yep - the room damping was also my 1st guess.
Get a vintage amp and speakers from the 70s for cheap and try that
I would bet “room treatment”.
I have about a grand into my system. I cannot count how many jaws I’ve dropped in peoples own laps!!!!!!
..... Because he spent all that money and it doesn't sound any better than a $10,000 system.
Yup. I saw once dude commenting on a forum. He has cheap yamaha and he spent 5000 usd on a higher end gear. Few days layer he wrote that his cheaper yamaha had sounded better than 5k usd gear
@@pioneernut7487it may be that he was on the older side, and started to loose the hearing (as we all do) in the higher frequencies. Maybe his Yamaha system was brighter? :)
As he's in Ireland like myself HI Fi is very expensive in Ireland. He's probably talking in euros. A ten thousand dollar system in the States would cost about 20 thousand euros over here.
How do you know? Have you heart the system?
@@PatKennedydon Isn't that depending on the specific brands? I don't know the Irish scene but I live in Sweden and have seen some prices in other European countries and some things are more expensive here than in the US, but at other times it's the opposite. Obviously US made gear is cheaper there and vice versa for European gear, but I've also seen some high end Japanese gear be significantly cheaper here than in the US.
US prices is also always listed without VAT, which can skew perception.
I think that these speakers are designed primarily for studio use in near to mid field monitoring applications. This could be the issue here and they also have room correction built into them. If this is not configured correctly the combination with the room treatments could make them sound wrong.
A common failure of all audiophiles: purchasing based on what a technical spec sheet reads. "Look at these numbers! According to the specs this piece of equipment is incredibly accurate at reproducing (insert whatever seems important). I gotta buy it!" I've heard a number of fantastic low budget systems (e.g., less than $4K). The science is listening with your ears and piecing a system together, not reading from a spec sheet. Once you get over the spec sheet hurdle, you'll be on your way to creating a great system.
Speakers are key from my experience also. I changed my speakers and it was game changer.
And on the other side of the spectrum, most of my equipment was given to me for free, or used and costs a few hundred dollars here and there, and some of it needed a little work. But it puts a smile from ear to ear every time. But money is relative and the law of diminished returns is always at play.
I hope this gentlemen can figure out why his system is not engaging like mine is to me. Paul's explanation is probably right, fix the room, change the speakers and he should be good to go. Also lose any power conditioners in series with the equipment as these can hinder current, and use a quality hardwired parallel surge protector, like MCG, at the panel that feeds the audio equipment. Cheers, and good luck.
The guy should have sent Paul a picture of his room. If I were asked the same question, I would have no clue.
Have you re recorded your outro music? Sounds cleaner today.
Wrong choice of speakers. That pair of speakers is monitor type. More than half of audiophiles will regret after acquiring this type of speakers after a while.
Paul is right, an overdamped 'neutral' sounding room, although correct can sometimes sound boring and dead. Flat beer.
Room or speakers... possibly, could also be the music he's selected.
speakers.....when you buy something based on what others like, dont be surprised when you dont!
I don’t get this: audiophiles that go separate everything (source, DAC, power conditioners, uber-expensive cables and interconects) and then use powered speakers! Just get a good integrated amp (or a pre &power) and try as many speakers as you can! Where I’m from, the law requires full refund for anything you bought online in a 30-days window.
Eq'ing your speaker might help get them how you like. Buying different speakers is often about the particular EQ. They might not be to your taste. But an EQ could be your saving grace.
This! My JBLs have exaggerated 250Hz so i cut that and got the sound i needed. I'll never part with them.
What is missing is the addition of a few well places Shakti Stones. Shakti Stone is a subtle game changer. Add Shatki Stone into your system.
Technical question : knowing the DAC accepts zeros and ones, in the case of a DSD file flowing toward the DAC, what does the high-frequency modulation from the zeros and ones on the file, the DAC or the computer ?
I agree with Paul. I’d start with the room then consider… ATC active or swap to Naim and Focal.
Zake, take your speakers to a friend's (who has a roughly similar quality system) place where you like the sound. swap yours in & see if they sound better to you there. if there is a notable improvement, then see if you can remove as much damping material as possible from your room. note an improvement? this kinda approach (take 'em to multiple friends listening rooms / have those folk listen in your room / drag 'em to a "bright" room & see if you like that sound more, etc. - what fun!) is time & labor rich. however, you aren't buying more hardware, you are isolating the issue(s) that disturb your listening pleasure.
Maybe it's connected incorrectly. The other month in Montreal the ps audio speakers, think fr10s, sounded horrendous. Day 1 and everyone was walking out unimpressed, room didn't have than many people listening. Day 2 people said they fixed the problem but i didn't go back, such a rookie mistake. I wish your speakers at least sounded "meh" but oh boy so bad.
Suspect "over damped" room? Take the system to another room. Friend's home. Most "Live" rooms in my house are the garage/carport and bathroom. Clap your hands in there and it pings back at you. I recall Sonab had tweeters pointed in all different directions. It liked if not needed reflections. A dead room would absolutely kill it.
Try some different music, on top of what Paul says. Duke Ellington's Blues in Orbit and Jazz Party (in Stereo) are great, lively recordings. If they sound dull, you've got a really over damped room or speaker compensation. Then the album John Coltrane and Johnny Hartmann for quiet vocals in a small group.
I'm so glad that my $2000 system responds to pulling my position another 6" away from the nearest wall. The tonal balance is already good but moving my ears puts space into the sound stage.
Hi Zack! I think before selling the speakers and "de-treating" the room you should buy a quality SUBWOOFER! That will change EVERYTHING ;) get the crossover correct and go from there ;)
I find that the type of music and quality of the recording makes all the difference in the world. For my money, jazz recordings from ECM and Gondwana labels are some of the best out there. Most other genres of music sound too compressed to excite me, i.e. there's no space around the instruments/notes like you get from a carefully engineered jazz recording.
Too much $, not enough brain and common sense.
And here I am happy with my $30 bluetooth speakers. :)
Okay didn't realise that.
Build the gear yourself. My second pair of speakers, made up of the Raal 140-15D, Lowther DX 65, (2) Jordan 150 NG's/channel, the moving coils all loaded into 12 foot long waveguides, cost 4500 bucks, for the drivers. My two OTLs, monobloc, Class AB, 60Watts into 16 Ohms and a single ended Minibeast at 7 Watts, also into 16 Ohms, maybe 3+ grand. My Audio Note kit DAC a couple of grand. If you pay others to build your gear, you're paying what the market will demand. And the prices commanded today, are completely insane.
Paul... Have you had the opportunity to listen to Bang Olufsen’s “Beolab 90”? If so, what are your impressions?