One of the biggest problems for me is that there doesn’t seem to be any sense of scale to these things. There’s no “let the punishment fit the crime”. In this case, someone who has done the research, spent time in the culture they’re writing about, and are trying their best to respect that culture, is treated essentially the same as someone who casually throws out slurs. There should be some room for differentiation, and I rarely see it.
This show and conversation were an example of the thing missing with most online discourse, wherher ot be the labels of cancelling or wokeness; a civil approach with a willingness to hear a differing opinion. Its gotten to the point where hot takes have become what people deem as factual. I've grown to be comfortable in assuming I'll never be the most intelligent person in a room. Leaves room for being open to hear new thoughts.
Great episode. Agreed with a lot of your points. My gut says a lot of the current online insanity is fueled by fear, envy and a perverse desire to destroy other people. OH, and Eric is correct. American Fiction is FANTASTIC and I have no idea how it was allowed to be made.
Great episode guys!! Ill keep things light and honest here. Matteo should take that animation job. Lets be real, its a miracle that Matteo has been able to get as much work as he has since Mr.freeze. Everyone in the industry has been throwing him a bone since that book, with cover work and short stories, just to help him feed his family. It cant last forever. Take the animation job and maybe one day youll be able to do comics again. This comment is sponsored by Eric Canete 😊
Hey what's the root of the Mr. Freeze issue by Matteo reference? I keep hearing it brought up but I don't get the joke. Is there an episode you could refer me to? Or summarize?
Not sure why my comments are getting deleted I’m not being disrespectful to anyone. I’m simply responding to someones take I disagreed with and seemingly their defense of cancel culture. Or why anyone would have a problem with it. This topic is very important to me in light of a creator I liked having taken his own life in response to cancel culture. For those defending cancel culture did you actually listen to what was said here? The artist went from receiving 6 figures a year to 9,000. That’s not a small setback. They lost a publisher. Their defense of cancel culture is he didn’t become homeless? That he was able to find a new publisher, but we don’t know if he got the rights to those works back. Will they ever be able to be published again? The poster said that they’re not really canceled because he is still able to be heard on here on this podcast. As in not removed from all platforms. Like they joked that 19 people will hear him on here and maybe a few copies so he’s all good? BTW as they stated the podcasts is recorded 2 months ahead of time. So the current campus censorship had not reached the level it’s at now. But regardless this is a podcast about comics and the craft of comics not world events. I’m not going to get into any political stuff here other then to say it’s not the 80s or 90s anymore and the right is not leading the charge with censorship like they were then. People have been complaining about cancel culture for the past decade because they are the current mob leading the non stop cry for censorship. And it’s insanity has been growing more every year. People actually think actors have to literally be everything the characters they play are to a ridiculous degree now. Or as he was talking about here that creators are attacked if the dare to tell a story, and the characters are of a different race or religion. How are stories ever spouse to be with filled with a diverse set of characters if every creator is made to feel they are mandated and restricted to only create stories based on their race, sex, sexuality, or religion? The best comics are not made by a committees of writers but by solo creators that have a burning passion inside them to get the story they see out. Ed Piskor had previously been attacked for years by a small but vocal group of these cancel culture mentality people for simply being a white artist that made Hip-Hop Family Tree. He was told it wasn’t his story to tell. That he took that opportunity away from others. That’s a bunch of bs. Anyone could have told the story but no one had and as a fan of the music he had a burning passion to get the full story out to the world. And had a vision in mind to combine it with his love of comics too. The Hip-Hop artist themselves seemed to all respect his work. It should be obvious to anyone that’s opened them that it was a passion project. After his death Rob Liefeld stated the Ed had asked for advice about these attacks because he knew Liefeld had survived being attacked online too, but Liefeld’s attacks were not in the same vane. Liefeld even went on to say that after Ed’s passing that he told his kids that he didn’t think he would be able to grow up in this age and survive these kind of attacks. These people never stopped so when they saw a new angle to attack him on, they jumped at it. He was judged and condemned without a chance to respond. He only was able to respond to everything in his final note and he stated how many things were out of context or flat out lies. But he knew how the cancel culture world works particularly in comics and that it would never stop. So with these cancel culture attackers in mind Ed felt like he had no way out. So yeah this bs has gone too far.
I didn't know your posts were being deleted. I'm sorry to hear that. Thanks for taking the time to write all of this. Youre right about Ed. Its such a sad and horrible thing that went down.
matteo broke glass in my house with that sign off....craig thompson is amazing, first i heard of mob mentality tearing him down. look forward to seeing interview and appreciate sean and you guys supporting creators
I think what Craig Thompson is suffering might be because of oversensitivity by pro-palestinian protesters. I say this because I encountered a crazy event myself. I am Turkish and I live in the States. A couple of weeks ago in a friend group setting, I was talking to a close friend of mine who is about to visit a muslim country, and I told him that the oppression might be palpable especially towards women, but to remember that I am from a muslim country and I am sure that there are secular, more open minded people there as well. A couple of hours later, this American lady who never traveled outside of country, who always told me and my wife how much she loves us and that we brighten her day, who is also a pro-palestinian protester lashed onto me in a group chat telling that the muslim women are the most overpowered women she knows and that by saying that I was misrepresenting the muslim population, and she saw that muslim men are always supporting the muslim women etc. I answered her simply by telling her that she only knows the muslim people she interacted here in D.C. in protests, while I grew up, lived with, and travelled around in the muslim world and moreover I know how westerners feel when they walk around. Besides the conversation she got offended by was a conversation between two friends and she just overheard it. Nevertheless, a couple of days later we saw her again and she offered to drive us home also telling that she loves us so much. At the end of the ride, my wife just opened up the subject because she didn't want her to keep having hard feelings and she started yelling that there is already anti-islam sentiment around and that by saying that I was perpetuating the anti-islam sentiment. I just kindly reminded her that she is reacting to a conversation between two friends and in any case I know islam, muslim people, the oppression they face and cause much more than she does. The fact that there is a human tragedy in Gaza doesn't change the facts muslim world lives with. Then she yelled us to leave her car and that we are wasting her gas. If I get this kind of treatment by a person who claims to love me, I cannot imagine what Craig has been going through.
Speaking from personal experience, when you're working on something that involves a people, culture, or history that is not your own, if you come in with good intentions and hold yourself to a standard that requires respect for the subject matter, most people are usually supportive of the work being done. Doing the research and asking questions is a huge part of it, and can take a long time, but by doing so, it helps add genuine authenticity to the work. Where it can get problematic is when someone may generalize or stereotypes because they didn't do enough research. There is also the potential a certain phrase may easily get misinterpreted as being offensive even if it something someone may have actually said. Lastly, as mentioned, doing a piece that puts a mirror up to those who may not realize their actions are problematic may draw out those who don't wish to have their actions or "identity" questioned. It does bother me that some people may suggest that a particular story "isn't their story to tell." Some stories may be incredibly personal, and in those instance one would hope that the person would have talked with these people, especially if the subject matter may be a touchy one. Though if the subject matter is a more public one, if no one has taken the time to tell said story, then who? Denying someone from sharing a story or history simply because they may be seen as an "outsider" is short sighted. There are those who only do things to profit off of a people, culture, etc., but you can usually tell when those people are faking the funk. Like I said before, people are usually more understanding, accepting, and appreciative when someone takes the time to learn about something that isn't their own, and puts a lot of thought and care to put a work into the world that highlights something outside of their own culture or history. It helps give voice to those who may not otherwise have realized it, and the opportunity for others to contribute as well. It can be seen as a conversation started to dig deeper, find more information, learn more about what you didn't previously, and more. Nonetheless, it's incredibly unfortunate that there is such tribalism to appear to be in the right that someone can go so far to end up doing something incredibly wrong. It can get bad enough that any chance for accountability can be completely taken off the table before the situation is properly looked at, discussed, and handled. There have been a number of situations lately where people are more concerned with their "side" than looking at the bigger picture and how it may be effecting everyone in said situation, community, etc. Hopefully those in positions of influence, leadership, and or authority can better educate people on how to thoughtfully approach these kind of situation with a desire to understand for the sake of a peaceful resolution and accountability, rather than simply attack and blame someone because they felt the need to be heard even if they had no intention of providing any suggestion for how the situation could be resolved. I know some people may not feel comfortable doing so, but if your thoughts an opinions can sway people, hopefully that influence is being used responsibly.
The world is changing rapidly and people are more sensitive in ways they weren't before, and I think we as people need to learn to extend more grace to those that offend. Make sure they have a path back, and don't destroy their livelihoods. Listen more, talk less. It's like the advent of social media has us relearning the wisdom that generations of people before us already knew. I can't help but think of Ed Piskor.
You're absolutely right... and on top of that... we need to learn that not everything is our business. People dont owe public explanations when its a private matter.
I would like to see more discussion of the power players, the companies that make things difficult in art and publishing. That and drawing issues discussed. Storytelling or design problems you've encountered that youre happily overcoming or struggling with. You're all very impressive artists, so id rather see you punching up and/or discussing problem solving art
I think there’s a lot of fear about getting swift backlash these days through the internet and social media for cultural appropriation and it’s easier to cut it loose for people than it is to foster understanding. It sounds like Craig immersed himself in the worlds he was depicting in his art.
Accurate representation is ESSENTIAL. Online mobs are a critical issue, however the reviews I've seen from members of the community 'Habibi' claims to represent raise some serious issues in regards to their representation, along side their praise of the work in general. The issue with any outsider creating about any community they are not apart of, they ALWAYS make mistakes. Well meaning has nothing to do with it. Saying 'I don't see what the problem is' when you're not of the community and thus have no idea what they see, it only adds fuel to the fire of those trying to be heard. When you come from a community that is incessantly mischaracterised, stereotyped or outright slandered by endless media and talking heads, these things only make it worse, because even artists as careful as Craig always get it wrong, which continues to sow disinformation, which continues the circle of gaslighting that occurs any time a minority voices their concerns about how they are represented by outsiders. Blankets was the first graphic 'novel' I read, probably on it's original release and loved it. However as someone from the trans community, ACCURATE and EMPATHETIC representation by people OF and BY my community, literally played a part in saving my life. At a time in which my community is being subjected to all kinds of social and legislative cruelty, slander and abuse worldwide, the importance of ACCURATE visibility cannot be understated. it changes hearts and minds. it saves lives. The idea he released this book and it wasn't checked by sensitivity readers, people of the community the book is about, by Craig or the publisher is bizarre to me, especially given the current politician climate. I'm talking about accuracy, not hypersensitive censorship; stuff Craig would probably be mortified about if he knew he'd offended. I'm not Muslim so I can't comment on it's inaccuracies, stereotypes or generalisations and I condemn the mob attacks on him, but I know what it means when others speak for you and always, ALWAYS get it wrong and it ALWAYS leads to gaslighting and abuse of the community it 'represents' by the majority who simply hate being challenged and take their anger out on us.
Thanks for taking the time to write all of this. I hear you! Craig had three muslims friends, some conservative, others liberal, over see the making of the book and NONE of them raised an issue. I also have Muslim friends who have read it and there wasn't a single issue. The thing is, if you dont like it, dont read it. It wasn't created form a space of hate. Theres plenty of stuff out there that i didn't enjoy reading, but I would never condemn the work or its creator, its just not for me. And thats OK.
Absolutely mind blowing what happened to Craig Thompson, I had no idea. The cancelling phenomenon in comics can reek of sheer professional jealousy. I feel some of this was fueling the Ed Piskor pile on. It's horrifying...
I didn't know Craig was targeted! What a shame, he's probably the most talented comics author alive, complete, creative, gentle, heartfelt... I love love love his talent, his writing. This is becoming a clownshow. The sheer ignorance end stupidity revolt my guts. These are the new offended puritans imposing their pov on the rest, the majority of the population. I have Blankets, Carnet de Voyage and Habibi, Space Dumplings and just found out he has more that I'll buy asap.
No fart jokes this episode? Unsubscribe. Jk. great show fellow humans. Ginsing roots was so great. I can believe there was backlash for this book. Craig had every right to write this book. Craig and his family worked on a ginsing farm when he was a kid and the story was about ginsing farming in america and the history of ginsing. He got everything from life experiences, research and interviews he was a part in with experts. I hope he goes to crowd funding because i bet he will get backed so quickly.
Given the intense right-wing backlash happening on campuses, given the expanding right-wing control of media, given the overall right-ward drift of the Overton Window, it is very hard to take these stale complaints about "cancel culture" seriously. Who's been "cancelled" to the point of not being able to support their family? Even Frank Miller is still working & doing just fine. I am sorry that your friend Craig had some backlash to his rape scenes (perhaps meditate on why there was backlash), but he found a publisher for Ginseng. He's gonna be a guest on this very show! He's not locked out of comics by any stretch. What spurred this diatribe? Why was there an urgency to retread the same tired complaints about "cancel culture" that we have been hearing for 10 years?
Their friend Craig specifically for their emphasis of the sensitive reader. Is that not enough? May have also coincided with the tragic end of Ed Piskor.
What a garbage take. Did you actually listen to what was said? He went from receiving 6 figures a year to 9,000. That’s not a small setback. He lost a publisher. Your defense of cancel culture is he didn’t become homeless? That he found a new publisher where he’s making less? That he actually still can be heard because as they said 19 people will hear him on here and might buy a few copies? BTW as they stated the podcasts is recorded 2 months ahead of time. So this current campus censorship had not reached the level it’s at now. But regardless this is a podcast about comics and the craft of comics not world events. I’m not going to get into any political bs here other then to say it’s not the 80s or 90s anymore and the right is not leading the charge with censorship like they were then. And both sides in office are voting to fund that war. People have been complaining about cancel culture for the past decade because they are the current mob leading the non stop cry for censorship. And it’s insanity has been growing more every year. People actually think actors have to literally be everything the characters they play are to a ridiculous degree now. Or as he was talking about here that creators are attacked if they dare to tell a story, and the characters are of a different race or religion. How are stories ever spouse to be with filled with a diverse set of characters if every creator is made to feel they are mandated and restricted to only create stories based on their race, sex, sexuality, or religion? The best comics are not made by a committee of writers but by solo creators that have a burning passion inside them to get the story they see out. Ed Piskor had been previously been attacked for years by a small but vocal group of these cancel culture mentality scumbags for simply being a white artist that made Hip-Hop Family Tree. He was told it wasn’t his story to tell. That he took that opportunity away from others. That’s a bunch of bs. Anyone could have told the story but no one had and as a fan of the music he had a burning passion to get the full story out to the world. And had a vision in mind to combine it with his love of comics too. The Hip-Hop artist themselves seemed to all respect his work. It should be obvious to anyone that’s opened them that it was a passion project. After his death Rob Liefeld stated the Ed had asked for advice in the past about these attacks because he knew Liefeld had survived being attacked online too, but Liefeld’s attacks were not in the same vane. Liefeld even went on to say after Ed’s passing that he told he’s kids he didn’t think he would be able to be growing up in this age either and survive these kind of attacks. These people never stopped so when they saw a new angle to attack Ed on they jumped at it. He was judged and condemned without a chance to respond. He did respond to everything in his final note and he stated how many things were out of context or flat out lies. But he knew how the cancel culture world works particularly in comics and that it would never stop. Hell even you are bring up Frank Miller. I’m guessing for a book he released almost a decade and a half ago now. And if that hadn’t been at the very start of cancel culture yeah he might of been a victim of it too. But people will keep bring it up every once and a while still. So with these deranged cancel culture attackers in mind Ed felt like he had no way out. So yeah this bs has gone too #$&king far.
Did you actually listen to what was said? He went from receiving 6 figures a year to 9,000. That’s not a small setback. He lost a publisher. Your defense of cancel culture is he didn’t become homeless? That he found a new publisher where he’s making less? That he actually still can be heard because as they said 19 people will hear him on here and might buy a few copies? BTW as they stated the podcasts is recorded 2 months ahead of time. So this current campus censorship had not reached the level it’s at now. But regardless this is a podcast about comics and the craft of comics not world events. I’m not going to get into any political stuff here other then to say it’s not the 80s or 90s anymore and the right is not leading the charge with censorship like they were then. People have been complaining about cancel culture for the past decade because they are the current mob leading the non stop cry for censorship. And it’s insanity has been growing more every year. People actually think actors have to literally be everything the characters they play are to a ridiculous degree now. Or as he was talking about here that creators are attacked if the dare to tell a story, and the characters are of a different race or religion. How are stories ever spouse to be with filled with a diverse set of characters if every creator is made to feel they are mandated and restricted to only create stories based on their race, sex, sexuality, or religion? The best comics are not made by a committees of writers but by solo creators that have a burning passion inside them to get the story they see out. Ed Piskor had been previously been attacked for years by a small but vocal group of these cancel culture mentality people for simply being a white artist that made Hip-Hop Family Tree. He was told it wasn’t his story to tell. That he took that opportunity away from others. That’s a bunch of bs. Anyone could have told the story but no one had and as a fan of the music he had a burning passion to get the full story out to the world. And had a vision in mind to combine it with his love of comics too. The Hip-Hop artist themselves seemed to all respect his work. It should be obvious to anyone that’s opened them that it was a passion project. After his death Rob Liefeld stated the Ed had asked for advice about these attacks because he knew Liefeld had survived being attacked online too, but Liefeld’s attacks were not in the same vane. He even went on to say that after Ed’s passing that he told he’s kids he didn’t think he would be able to grow up in this age and survive these kind of attacks. These people never stopped so when they saw a new angle to attack him on they jumped at it. He was judged and condemned without a chance to respond. He did respond to everything in his final note and he stated how many things were out of context or flat out lies. But he knew how the cancel culture world works particularly in comics and that it would never stop. Heck even you are bring up Frank Miller. I’m guessing for a book he released almost a decade and a half ago now. And if that hadn’t been at the very start of cancel culture yeah he might of been a victim of it too. But people will keep bring it up every once and a while still. So with these cancel culture attackers in mind Ed felt like he had no way out. So yeah this bs has gone too far.
One of the biggest problems for me is that there doesn’t seem to be any sense of scale to these things. There’s no “let the punishment fit the crime”. In this case, someone who has done the research, spent time in the culture they’re writing about, and are trying their best to respect that culture, is treated essentially the same as someone who casually throws out slurs. There should be some room for differentiation, and I rarely see it.
Thats exactly the point!
This show and conversation were an example of the thing missing with most online discourse, wherher ot be the labels of cancelling or wokeness; a civil approach with a willingness to hear a differing opinion. Its gotten to the point where hot takes have become what people deem as factual. I've grown to be comfortable in assuming I'll never be the most intelligent person in a room. Leaves room for being open to hear new thoughts.
Very well said! Thank you!
Great episode. Agreed with a lot of your points. My gut says a lot of the current online insanity is fueled by fear, envy and a perverse desire to destroy other people.
OH, and Eric is correct. American Fiction is FANTASTIC and I have no idea how it was allowed to be made.
Thanks Rob! I think you’re right!
Finally a video that discuss some real in depth issues w this industry u got sub btw !
Thanks for the Sub! Welcome aboard!
@@inkpulp blessings to you all
Great episode guys!!
Ill keep things light and honest here. Matteo should take that animation job. Lets be real, its a miracle that Matteo has been able to get as much work as he has since Mr.freeze. Everyone in the industry has been throwing him a bone since that book, with cover work and short stories, just to help him feed his family.
It cant last forever.
Take the animation job and maybe one day youll be able to do comics again.
This comment is sponsored by Eric Canete 😊
AHAHAAHAH! So good! and SO TRUE!
😂😂😂
Hey what's the root of the Mr. Freeze issue by Matteo reference? I keep hearing it brought up but I don't get the joke. Is there an episode you could refer me to? Or summarize?
@@gingerbearhaus I dont remeber whihc episode. But Matteo drew Batmna ONe Bad Day; Mr. Freeze. Eric didnt like it . So it became a thing
Not sure why my comments are getting deleted I’m not being disrespectful to anyone. I’m simply responding to someones take I disagreed with and seemingly their defense of cancel culture. Or why anyone would have a problem with it. This topic is very important to me in light of a creator I liked having taken his own life in response to cancel culture.
For those defending cancel culture did you actually listen to what was said here? The artist went from receiving 6 figures a year to 9,000. That’s not a small setback. They lost a publisher. Their defense of cancel culture is he didn’t become homeless? That he was able to find a new publisher, but we don’t know if he got the rights to those works back. Will they ever be able to be published again? The poster said that they’re not really canceled because he is still able to be heard on here on this podcast. As in not removed from all platforms. Like they joked that 19 people will hear him on here and maybe a few copies so he’s all good?
BTW as they stated the podcasts is recorded 2 months ahead of time. So the current campus censorship had not reached the level it’s at now. But regardless this is a podcast about comics and the craft of comics not world events. I’m not going to get into any political stuff here other then to say it’s not the 80s or 90s anymore and the right is not leading the charge with censorship like they were then.
People have been complaining about cancel culture for the past decade because they are the current mob leading the non stop cry for censorship. And it’s insanity has been growing more every year. People actually think actors have to literally be everything the characters they play are to a ridiculous degree now. Or as he was talking about here that creators are attacked if the dare to tell a story, and the characters are of a different race or religion. How are stories ever spouse to be with filled with a diverse set of characters if every creator is made to feel they are mandated and restricted to only create stories based on their race, sex, sexuality, or religion? The best comics are not made by a committees of writers but by solo creators that have a burning passion inside them to get the story they see out.
Ed Piskor had previously been attacked for years by a small but vocal group of these cancel culture mentality people for simply being a white artist that made Hip-Hop Family Tree. He was told it wasn’t his story to tell. That he took that opportunity away from others. That’s a bunch of bs. Anyone could have told the story but no one had and as a fan of the music he had a burning passion to get the full story out to the world. And had a vision in mind to combine it with his love of comics too. The Hip-Hop artist themselves seemed to all respect his work. It should be obvious to anyone that’s opened them that it was a passion project. After his death Rob Liefeld stated the Ed had asked for advice about these attacks because he knew Liefeld had survived being attacked online too, but Liefeld’s attacks were not in the same vane. Liefeld even went on to say that after Ed’s passing that he told his kids that he didn’t think he would be able to grow up in this age and survive these kind of attacks.
These people never stopped so when they saw a new angle to attack him on, they jumped at it. He was judged and condemned without a chance to respond. He only was able to respond to everything in his final note and he stated how many things were out of context or flat out lies. But he knew how the cancel culture world works particularly in comics and that it would never stop. So with these cancel culture attackers in mind Ed felt like he had no way out. So yeah this bs has gone too far.
I didn't know your posts were being deleted. I'm sorry to hear that. Thanks for taking the time to write all of this. Youre right about Ed. Its such a sad and horrible thing that went down.
It's an endorphin rush to join the angry mob!
31:30 One of the biggest dangers of social media is tricking people into thinking that what they say matters.
matteo broke glass in my house with that sign off....craig thompson is amazing, first i heard of mob mentality tearing him down. look forward to seeing interview and appreciate sean and you guys supporting creators
Ahahahahah!!!! I’ll definitely be making fun of his glass breaking abilities!
I think what Craig Thompson is suffering might be because of oversensitivity by pro-palestinian protesters. I say this because I encountered a crazy event myself.
I am Turkish and I live in the States. A couple of weeks ago in a friend group setting, I was talking to a close friend of mine who is about to visit a muslim country, and I told him that the oppression might be palpable especially towards women, but to remember that I am from a muslim country and I am sure that there are secular, more open minded people there as well. A couple of hours later, this American lady who never traveled outside of country, who always told me and my wife how much she loves us and that we brighten her day, who is also a pro-palestinian protester lashed onto me in a group chat telling that the muslim women are the most overpowered women she knows and that by saying that I was misrepresenting the muslim population, and she saw that muslim men are always supporting the muslim women etc. I answered her simply by telling her that she only knows the muslim people she interacted here in D.C. in protests, while I grew up, lived with, and travelled around in the muslim world and moreover I know how westerners feel when they walk around. Besides the conversation she got offended by was a conversation between two friends and she just overheard it.
Nevertheless, a couple of days later we saw her again and she offered to drive us home also telling that she loves us so much. At the end of the ride, my wife just opened up the subject because she didn't want her to keep having hard feelings and she started yelling that there is already anti-islam sentiment around and that by saying that I was perpetuating the anti-islam sentiment. I just kindly reminded her that she is reacting to a conversation between two friends and in any case I know islam, muslim people, the oppression they face and cause much more than she does. The fact that there is a human tragedy in Gaza doesn't change the facts muslim world lives with. Then she yelled us to leave her car and that we are wasting her gas.
If I get this kind of treatment by a person who claims to love me, I cannot imagine what Craig has been going through.
Thank you for your insight, this happened years ago... i guess its possible.
Speaking from personal experience, when you're working on something that involves a people, culture, or history that is not your own, if you come in with good intentions and hold yourself to a standard that requires respect for the subject matter, most people are usually supportive of the work being done. Doing the research and asking questions is a huge part of it, and can take a long time, but by doing so, it helps add genuine authenticity to the work.
Where it can get problematic is when someone may generalize or stereotypes because they didn't do enough research. There is also the potential a certain phrase may easily get misinterpreted as being offensive even if it something someone may have actually said. Lastly, as mentioned, doing a piece that puts a mirror up to those who may not realize their actions are problematic may draw out those who don't wish to have their actions or "identity" questioned.
It does bother me that some people may suggest that a particular story "isn't their story to tell." Some stories may be incredibly personal, and in those instance one would hope that the person would have talked with these people, especially if the subject matter may be a touchy one. Though if the subject matter is a more public one, if no one has taken the time to tell said story, then who? Denying someone from sharing a story or history simply because they may be seen as an "outsider" is short sighted. There are those who only do things to profit off of a people, culture, etc., but you can usually tell when those people are faking the funk. Like I said before, people are usually more understanding, accepting, and appreciative when someone takes the time to learn about something that isn't their own, and puts a lot of thought and care to put a work into the world that highlights something outside of their own culture or history. It helps give voice to those who may not otherwise have realized it, and the opportunity for others to contribute as well. It can be seen as a conversation started to dig deeper, find more information, learn more about what you didn't previously, and more.
Nonetheless, it's incredibly unfortunate that there is such tribalism to appear to be in the right that someone can go so far to end up doing something incredibly wrong. It can get bad enough that any chance for accountability can be completely taken off the table before the situation is properly looked at, discussed, and handled. There have been a number of situations lately where people are more concerned with their "side" than looking at the bigger picture and how it may be effecting everyone in said situation, community, etc.
Hopefully those in positions of influence, leadership, and or authority can better educate people on how to thoughtfully approach these kind of situation with a desire to understand for the sake of a peaceful resolution and accountability, rather than simply attack and blame someone because they felt the need to be heard even if they had no intention of providing any suggestion for how the situation could be resolved. I know some people may not feel comfortable doing so, but if your thoughts an opinions can sway people, hopefully that influence is being used responsibly.
Thank you for taking the time to wrtie all of this. I agree with you!
The world is changing rapidly and people are more sensitive in ways they weren't before, and I think we as people need to learn to extend more grace to those that offend. Make sure they have a path back, and don't destroy their livelihoods. Listen more, talk less. It's like the advent of social media has us relearning the wisdom that generations of people before us already knew. I can't help but think of Ed Piskor.
You're absolutely right... and on top of that... we need to learn that not everything is our business. People dont owe public explanations when its a private matter.
I would like to see more discussion of the power players, the companies that make things difficult in art and publishing. That and drawing issues discussed. Storytelling or design problems you've encountered that youre happily overcoming or struggling with. You're all very impressive artists, so id rather see you punching up and/or discussing problem solving art
We do discuss all of the above. Thanks for the compliments and thanks for posting!
MATTEO!!! Please print more copies of Dumb Shark!! Its sold out!
Its not sold out, we just need to add it tot he site.
@@inkpulp oooh yay I’ll keep an eye out
@@gingerbearhausyeah, it’s a website problem, we still have copies!! Trying to solve it as we speak 👍
@@matteoscalera Such a tease!! heheh, just kidding, cool man Ill watch out for it when it becomes available, thanks!
@@gingerbearhaussketchbook is now available on the website!!
I think there’s a lot of fear about getting swift backlash these days through the internet and social media for cultural appropriation and it’s easier to cut it loose for people than it is to foster understanding. It sounds like Craig immersed himself in the worlds he was depicting in his art.
Craig and an amazing and unique cartoonist! Thanks for posting!
How can the author of a GN like Blankets be anything but genuine!??? ❤
EXACTLY!
Blankets was/is a great book. This is a true shame. Artists are under attack!
Accurate representation is ESSENTIAL. Online mobs are a critical issue, however the reviews I've seen from members of the community 'Habibi' claims to represent raise some serious issues in regards to their representation, along side their praise of the work in general.
The issue with any outsider creating about any community they are not apart of, they ALWAYS make mistakes. Well meaning has nothing to do with it. Saying 'I don't see what the problem is' when you're not of the community and thus have no idea what they see, it only adds fuel to the fire of those trying to be heard.
When you come from a community that is incessantly mischaracterised, stereotyped or outright slandered by endless media and talking heads, these things only make it worse, because even artists as careful as Craig always get it wrong, which continues to sow disinformation, which continues the circle of gaslighting that occurs any time a minority voices their concerns about how they are represented by outsiders.
Blankets was the first graphic 'novel' I read, probably on it's original release and loved it. However as someone from the trans community, ACCURATE and EMPATHETIC representation by people OF and BY my community, literally played a part in saving my life. At a time in which my community is being subjected to all kinds of social and legislative cruelty, slander and abuse worldwide, the importance of ACCURATE visibility cannot be understated. it changes hearts and minds. it saves lives.
The idea he released this book and it wasn't checked by sensitivity readers, people of the community the book is about, by Craig or the publisher is bizarre to me, especially given the current politician climate. I'm talking about accuracy, not hypersensitive censorship; stuff Craig would probably be mortified about if he knew he'd offended.
I'm not Muslim so I can't comment on it's inaccuracies, stereotypes or generalisations and I condemn the mob attacks on him, but I know what it means when others speak for you and always, ALWAYS get it wrong and it ALWAYS leads to gaslighting and abuse of the community it 'represents' by the majority who simply hate being challenged and take their anger out on us.
Thanks for taking the time to write all of this. I hear you! Craig had three muslims friends, some conservative, others liberal, over see the making of the book and NONE of them raised an issue. I also have Muslim friends who have read it and there wasn't a single issue. The thing is, if you dont like it, dont read it. It wasn't created form a space of hate. Theres plenty of stuff out there that i didn't enjoy reading, but I would never condemn the work or its creator, its just not for me. And thats OK.
@@inkpulp People are just looking for fights to feel a sense of control. I appreciate the discussion. Another great comics show to add to the list!
@@sophia_comicart Thank you for your wisdom! And thanks for listneing! We have a new bot! lol!
I had not heard about the cancellation efforts towards Craig. What a shame. Drawn & Quarterly should be ashamed of themselves.
Absolutely mind blowing what happened to Craig Thompson, I had no idea. The cancelling phenomenon in comics can reek of sheer professional jealousy. I feel some of this was fueling the Ed Piskor pile on. It's horrifying...
It is AWFUL! Thanks for commenting!
I had no idea that happened to Craig. I was thinking Ginseng would be collected but that’s terrible. I have everything else he’s done.
It will be collected, he has a publisher now.
I didn't know Craig was targeted!
What a shame, he's probably the most talented comics author alive, complete, creative, gentle, heartfelt... I love love love his talent, his writing. This is becoming a clownshow. The sheer ignorance end stupidity revolt my guts. These are the new offended puritans imposing their pov on the rest, the majority of the population.
I have Blankets, Carnet de Voyage and Habibi, Space Dumplings and just found out he has more that I'll buy asap.
I completely agree. The is NO ONE making comics like Craig!
Digital struggle sessions. Mao is grinning in his grave.
No fart jokes this episode? Unsubscribe. Jk.
great show fellow humans. Ginsing roots was so great. I can believe there was backlash for this book. Craig had every right to write this book. Craig and his family worked on a ginsing farm when he was a kid and the story was about ginsing farming in america and the history of ginsing. He got everything from life experiences, research and interviews he was a part in with experts. I hope he goes to crowd funding because i bet he will get backed so quickly.
Yes, me too. I hope he comes back stronger than ever!
Given the intense right-wing backlash happening on campuses, given the expanding right-wing control of media, given the overall right-ward drift of the Overton Window, it is very hard to take these stale complaints about "cancel culture" seriously. Who's been "cancelled" to the point of not being able to support their family? Even Frank Miller is still working & doing just fine.
I am sorry that your friend Craig had some backlash to his rape scenes (perhaps meditate on why there was backlash), but he found a publisher for Ginseng. He's gonna be a guest on this very show! He's not locked out of comics by any stretch. What spurred this diatribe? Why was there an urgency to retread the same tired complaints about "cancel culture" that we have been hearing for 10 years?
Their friend Craig specifically for their emphasis of the sensitive reader. Is that not enough? May have also coincided with the tragic end of Ed Piskor.
What a garbage take. Did you actually listen to what was said? He went from receiving 6 figures a year to 9,000. That’s not a small setback. He lost a publisher. Your defense of cancel culture is he didn’t become homeless? That he found a new publisher where he’s making less? That he actually still can be heard because as they said 19 people will hear him on here and might buy a few copies?
BTW as they stated the podcasts is recorded 2 months ahead of time. So this current campus censorship had not reached the level it’s at now. But regardless this is a podcast about comics and the craft of comics not world events. I’m not going to get into any political bs here other then to say it’s not the 80s or 90s anymore and the right is not leading the charge with censorship like they were then. And both sides in office are voting to fund that war.
People have been complaining about cancel culture for the past decade because they are the current mob leading the non stop cry for censorship. And it’s insanity has been growing more every year. People actually think actors have to literally be everything the characters they play are to a ridiculous degree now. Or as he was talking about here that creators are attacked if they dare to tell a story, and the characters are of a different race or religion. How are stories ever spouse to be with filled with a diverse set of characters if every creator is made to feel they are mandated and restricted to only create stories based on their race, sex, sexuality, or religion? The best comics are not made by a committee of writers but by solo creators that have a burning passion inside them to get the story they see out.
Ed Piskor had been previously been attacked for years by a small but vocal group of these cancel culture mentality scumbags for simply being a white artist that made Hip-Hop Family Tree. He was told it wasn’t his story to tell. That he took that opportunity away from others. That’s a bunch of bs. Anyone could have told the story but no one had and as a fan of the music he had a burning passion to get the full story out to the world. And had a vision in mind to combine it with his love of comics too. The Hip-Hop artist themselves seemed to all respect his work. It should be obvious to anyone that’s opened them that it was a passion project. After his death Rob Liefeld stated the Ed had asked for advice in the past about these attacks because he knew Liefeld had survived being attacked online too, but Liefeld’s attacks were not in the same vane. Liefeld even went on to say after Ed’s passing that he told he’s kids he didn’t think he would be able to be growing up in this age either and survive these kind of attacks.
These people never stopped so when they saw a new angle to attack Ed on they jumped at it. He was judged and condemned without a chance to respond. He did respond to everything in his final note and he stated how many things were out of context or flat out lies. But he knew how the cancel culture world works particularly in comics and that it would never stop. Hell even you are bring up Frank Miller. I’m guessing for a book he released almost a decade and a half ago now. And if that hadn’t been at the very start of cancel culture yeah he might of been a victim of it too. But people will keep bring it up every once and a while still. So with these deranged cancel culture attackers in mind Ed felt like he had no way out. So yeah this bs has gone too #$&king far.
Did you actually listen to what was said? He went from receiving 6 figures a year to 9,000. That’s not a small setback. He lost a publisher. Your defense of cancel culture is he didn’t become homeless? That he found a new publisher where he’s making less? That he actually still can be heard because as they said 19 people will hear him on here and might buy a few copies?
BTW as they stated the podcasts is recorded 2 months ahead of time. So this current campus censorship had not reached the level it’s at now. But regardless this is a podcast about comics and the craft of comics not world events. I’m not going to get into any political stuff here other then to say it’s not the 80s or 90s anymore and the right is not leading the charge with censorship like they were then.
People have been complaining about cancel culture for the past decade because they are the current mob leading the non stop cry for censorship. And it’s insanity has been growing more every year. People actually think actors have to literally be everything the characters they play are to a ridiculous degree now. Or as he was talking about here that creators are attacked if the dare to tell a story, and the characters are of a different race or religion. How are stories ever spouse to be with filled with a diverse set of characters if every creator is made to feel they are mandated and restricted to only create stories based on their race, sex, sexuality, or religion? The best comics are not made by a committees of writers but by solo creators that have a burning passion inside them to get the story they see out.
Ed Piskor had been previously been attacked for years by a small but vocal group of these cancel culture mentality people for simply being a white artist that made Hip-Hop Family Tree. He was told it wasn’t his story to tell. That he took that opportunity away from others. That’s a bunch of bs. Anyone could have told the story but no one had and as a fan of the music he had a burning passion to get the full story out to the world. And had a vision in mind to combine it with his love of comics too. The Hip-Hop artist themselves seemed to all respect his work. It should be obvious to anyone that’s opened them that it was a passion project. After his death Rob Liefeld stated the Ed had asked for advice about these attacks because he knew Liefeld had survived being attacked online too, but Liefeld’s attacks were not in the same vane. He even went on to say that after Ed’s passing that he told he’s kids he didn’t think he would be able to grow up in this age and survive these kind of attacks.
These people never stopped so when they saw a new angle to attack him on they jumped at it. He was judged and condemned without a chance to respond. He did respond to everything in his final note and he stated how many things were out of context or flat out lies. But he knew how the cancel culture world works particularly in comics and that it would never stop. Heck even you are bring up Frank Miller. I’m guessing for a book he released almost a decade and a half ago now. And if that hadn’t been at the very start of cancel culture yeah he might of been a victim of it too. But people will keep bring it up every once and a while still. So with these cancel culture attackers in mind Ed felt like he had no way out. So yeah this bs has gone too far.
Oh, look at this wonderful gaslighting! The lights, the colours, so awesome...
Thank you for taking the time to post, and show another point of view. I dont agree at all, but thats why we talk and dont draw lines in the sand.