Note: The graphic that listed Richard Ostler as "Bishop Ostler" was created by thoughtful faith. Richard Ostler is a former bishop and the reference to him as "Bishop Ostler" is not meant to mean he currently holds that calling. In the culture of the church members regularly refer to former bishops still as bishop.
I still think you should take that graphic off of your video. I just don't think it's fair to leave it there. I think you're creating confusion and anger unnecessarily. There's enough concerns in the content without doing that. While it's true he holds the office after release, keys are everything, and he no longer holds them at that point. I honestly thought that he was somehow in the presiding bishopric without me knowing when I first saw your video. I think leaving it there undercuts your credibility and causes unnecessary added doubt, which I don't believe you intended to do.
I don't think a video has ever upset me this much. When you read the opening letter to President Oaks, I thought "YES! I feel that so strongly". Then you went on to tell me so many things I didn't know. It makes me feel betrayed, as someone who is always trying to follow the prophet and be a witness of Christ. If all of the things I've been testifying were suddenly undermined by shifting church doctrine to align more with others who have been "advocating for change to the brethren"... It would be a really huge hit to my faith. I prayed after this and my tumultuous heart was calmed. "All will be well" is the answer I got. I'm going to surrender my fears to God, utilize the atonement, continue praying for the leaders and influencers of the church, and continue testifying of things that have been confirmed to me by the Holy Ghost.
8:34 the gathering of Israel is not making people feel more comfortable and included. It is about bringing people to Christ, which often involves you taking up the cross and following him. Not being affirmed in your sinful behavior
We are absolutely commanded to judge sin. Not an individual’s eternal fate or standing before God, but behavior? Absolutely, it is a commandment to do so.
In the very end of the latter days, the wheat and the tares will be allowed to grow together before the final gathering and burning takes place. I think that’s what we’re witnessing right now. it’s sad to see.
Unfortunately I am not at all confused, because I've seen this coming for a while now. I had no idea it was so ingrained in mainstream church activities because my children are grown and I have no grandchildren. My personal belief is that as we come ever closer to the return of Christ, He is stripping away every false idol that stands between us and Him, and that includes church hierarchies that have been useful in the past. Every worldwide church is seeing this. In the end, there should be nothing that stands between us and God, and we may have to face some facts we never thought we'd have to face. I have been a faithful member for most of my life, but while I have not lost my testimony, I no longer believe we are being led in the right direction. I am developing my personal relationship with God with nothing in between us. Also, I have to say that as a woman, I find it deeply offensive that some leaders in my Church are indulging men who engage in cosplaying as women. I've heard some say they just "feel" like a woman. To that I say you couldn't possibly because you are NOT a woman and therefore have no idea how a woman feels. I am never going to call a man in a dress Sister anybody, no matter how well he does his makeup.
My thoughts are this... We have been told to follow the prophet our whole lives and it seems that the prophets are still staying firm. I'm a member in Australia and none of this is going on over here thank goodness but I also know that laws have been passed here that make it illegal to not be in the affirmative for church leaders when they are councilling same sex issues. I think the church will have to be very careful going forward as this will be an issue for leaders everywhere. They will have to be very careful how they publicly address these issues as they could be charged criminally. We know what the fundamentals have always been and bishops and stake leaders DO NOT have the authority to make these decisions but if the general authorities can't address these problems for fear of being criminally charged then this is going be the norm worldwide. It's a sobering thought and I can see the church really becoming a conflicting and contradicting place because while the leadership knows what they should be doing, society and laws will stop them from doing so...
Yes I agree with you I’ve heard leaders in the church say things that didn’t sound quite right such as, if members of the lds church leave the church and join another church that’s not lds they’ll still be okay and can still get to the celestial kingdom I couldn’t believe my ears! We may have to concentrate on our relationship with the Lord and get all our instructions from him because we are in danger of being misled!
This video (and the young woman's letter at the beginning) captures my concerns. In addition to "confused," I also feel betrayed and undermined as I try to uphold the truth on these issues with too little church support.
@jaredralphstanley I believe that the traditional views of marriage, family, gender and sexuality are the best course and best plan for happiness for individuals and for humankind's future. I hold to truth. It's not hate.
I feel betrayed as well. The church expects my loyalty but I do not feel like they are loyal to me. It’s like they are making changes in a local level and hoping we don’t notice.
So I can have sex before marriage, commit adultry after marriage, use pornography and allow promiscuous behavior if I use the words inclusivety and tolerance? These words cancel sin? Those who are tolerant in all things, stand for nothing.
that logic sounds about as retarded as telling yourself that your straight while having a transgender girlfriend who was born as a male, that circular logic makes zero sense in god's eyes. anyway i'm saying this from the perspective of someone who doesn't even go to this church anymore.
I applaud you for your bravery!! I know this was difficult for you but you are asking the right questions and you can see the true emotion that you feel! This is a wonderful video and you’re so right about everything you said!!
Jacob, you have done a fantastic job of faithfully encapsulating what many of us are experiencing. I am a convert of 38 years and, for the first time, I feel the firm foundations beginning to crumble under ideology and seeming subversion. I have always relied on having my feet firmly planted in gospel sod to withstand the failing of hearts. And yet, witnessing this, my heart is failing me. I am tightening my grip on the rod, but the fog is thick.
“Leaders also counsel against social transitioning. A social transition includes changing dress or grooming, or changing a name or pronouns, to present oneself as other than his or her biological sex at birth. Leaders advise that those who socially transition will experience some Church membership restrictions for the duration of this transition. “Restrictions include receiving or exercising the priesthood, receiving or using a temple recommend, and receiving some Church callings. Although some privileges of Church membership are restricted, other Church participation is welcomed.”
Henry Gonzalez, I agree with your comment. Please review 1 Nephi 8 verses 24 and 30. Not the differences between clinging and continually holding fast to the rod. We all want to be the second ones...continually holding fast. We're all in this together. Let us stay the course, partake of the fruit, and remain at the tree, ignoring the mockers and scorners in the Great and Spacious Building which has NO FOUNDATION.
I am a nobody and am not preaching to anyone. Just a voice of warning. I came to the LDS church in 1987 from the RLDS. We saw the same decay over the 25 years preceding 1987 in the RLDS (C of C). Our college was infiltrated. Leadership sought recognition by world and national organizations including the UN. Leadership totally detached from the gospel and sought ecumenical acceptance and embraced more widely accepted standards from the world. The Book of Mormon addresses and predicts this among the churches. The affairs of this world, nation and ultimately this church are wrapping up quickly. Repent and turn to the Lord. Cling to his gospel.
That is so interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience. I saw an interview about a year ago with a female apostle from the Church of Christ. She seemed really confused on what their doctrine even was. I can't remember the exact details but I remember thinking that it was so strange that she really didn't even understand her own church's doctrine. Maybe a better description was that it seemed like the doctrine wasn't clear for the church as a whole, and they could kind of just believe whatever they wanted. I need to go back and watch that again to remember those details. It was very interesting and for me, testimony strengthening. I could see the difference between our churches and I felt that ours was absolutely the correct one. It wasn't even a struggle I was having. I've always believed ours was the correct one. It just increased my faith and testimony to watch this interview.
If I ever leave the church I love, it will be because they have become cowards. These are the first examples I’ve experienced that make that future seem like a possibility.
MY _FIRST_ "PROBLEMS" came with the ABOLISHMENT of Home Teaching , PLUS the OFFICIAL DECLARATION of Church buildings as *SOFT TARGETS* , *_IGNORING_* the realities of what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING in The world. _today_ . To help YOU with your "CONFUSION" - which _SHOULD *NOT* EXISTIST* . *NO* This is EVIL _ENTERING IN_ . Remember *YOUR* Temple covenants . These are NOT "CHURCH TEACHINGS" . These are ABSOLUTELY the "philosophies of MEN ..." . THIS is the sickness of *THE* WORLD , something we are COMMANDED to reject . _My_ "testimony" was first of *God our Eternal Father* and His *Christ* who He SENT , and teaching that Christ is "gay" PREYS on the IGNORANT who REFUSE *SCRIPTURE* , Prophetic REVELATION _and_ *TEMPLE COVENANTS* . THUS _I_ *myself* have absolutely NO *"CONFUSION"* . After _ALL_ , WHY should we accept these worshippers of Baal for what they AREN'T If _they_ won't ACCEPT _THESELVES_ for _WHO THEY _*_ARE_* ?!!?
I'm under the impression that if things get bad enough, we will be able to rely on the Lord through the things laid out by the president of the church. Even if everyone in the church office building and maybe even some of the Quorum of the twelve become corrupted, we can follow the counsel to "follow the prophet" unwaveringly.
I watched a conference session from 2009 the other day and was so surprised by how clear things were back then. I felt like I had come back home in some sense and I nearly cried. I never ever thought I was going to struggle like this with the church. I have worked through all the church history stuff, polygamy, priesthood ban etc etc. I never once anticipated that I would have to deal with this stuff. I have not felt more unsettled ever in my life.
@Zach Though it seems daunting and very troubling and confusing, please recognize that we are in the last days and the devil is running amok leading many astray. Prophesies must be fulfilled. God have warned us that if we are not careful, even the very elect may be deceived. He also told us the gates of hell will not prevail against this church. The wheat and the tares are being separated. God’s wrath is eminent and his timing is not the same as us. Hold on tight to the iron rod (the word of God) and focus on the Tree (Love of God) as we go through this journey. Do not fall into the river - filthy water (depths of hell) and stay focus when the mists of darkness try to overtake us (Temptation of this world). Partake of that glorious fruit. Stand steadfast and immovable and endure well to the end. Stay Prayerful for guidance from God and remember the devil is the Father of All Lies and his job is to steal, kill and destroy and lead many of us astray with his craftiness and cunningness. The Holy Spirit is our guide. Stay Blessed. 🙏🏽❤️
"Doubt what you don't know before you doubt what you know." Stay strong, and focus on the fundamental rather than cultural aspects of the Gospel. The fundamental aspects of the Gospel are those principles and ordinances that pertain to Salvation.
@@TheRegimentalscotI fully intend on doing just that. I’m not even close to thinking of leaving the church or breaking my covenants. I have stayed while so many of my friends and family have left. I’m not going anywhere. I can’t help but think our ancestors were driven from their homes, murdered and then froze and starved to death on the plains. If they can stay faithful in those circumstances me I have no excuse to be wishy washy now.
@@ZachGorham44 💯 percent. My ancestors were pioneers too. Stay the course. Hold fast to the rod. Do not let those from the Great and Spacious Building get to you. It doesn't even have a foundation. It can't stand.
I have had the same feelings for a while. I have never had an issues with priesthood ban(I am black) nor poligamia etc. And I really treasure how clear was general conference back in the 2000's and even 2014. I don't think I can stay in the church with the pathway the leaders are taking.
It’s interesting and sad to see this… when we read in 4 Nephi the reason the people fall is due to Pride but Why did the Church fall? 1. Denial of Parts of the Gospel 2. Did “receive All manner of wickedness” and “administer that which was sacred unto him to whom it had been forbidden because of unworthiness.” The wind could never knock down the tree, but the termites would. "All the water in the world, However hard it tried, Could never sink the smallest ship, Unless it [gets] inside. "And all the evil in the world, The blackest kind of sin, Can never hurt you the least bit, Unless you let it in." President Boyd K. Packer, Nov. 1999
This section in Doctrine and Covenants came very strongly into my mind while watching this. It’s so comforting to know that those who are being deceived will be reclaimed. Section 50 1 Hearken, O ye elders of my church, and give ear to the voice of the living God; and attend to the words of wisdom which shall be given unto you, according as ye have asked and are agreed as touching the church, and the spirits which have gone abroad in the earth. 2 Behold, verily I say unto you, that there are many spirits which are false spirits, which have gone forth in the earth, deceiving the world. 3 And also Satan hath sought to deceive you, that he might overthrow you. 4 Behold, I, the Lord, have looked upon you, and have seen abominations in the church that profess my name. 5 But blessed are they who are faithful and endure, whether in life or in death, for they shall inherit eternal life. 6 But wo unto them that are deceivers and hypocrites, for, thus saith the Lord, I will bring them to judgment. 7 Behold, verily I say unto you, there are hypocrites among you, who have deceived some, which has given the adversary power; but behold such shall be reclaimed; 8 But the hypocrites shall be detected and shall be cut off, either in life or in death, even as I will; and wo unto them who are cut off from my church, for the same are overcome of the world. 9 Wherefore, let every man beware lest he do that which is not in truth and righteousness before me.
LOL if only the BOM was real . Its a nice story made up by yours truly Mr Joseph. Such a wacky religion. Why anyone even stays in .. is the true confusion.
@@jodikephart5895The faithful Latter-day Saints will remain faithful and endure to the end believing in Jesus Christ and following his teachings on faith, repentance, forgiveness and in doing good to all men that we may gain eternal life. We already believe that Satan and his minions are doubling their efforts to deceive because they know their time is running out. You’re proving to me that they really do exist.
@@jimbomanzano4785 Mormons (and I’m one of them) have been “” enduring to the end for YEARS “” Jesus and his teachings are wonderful but the Mormons don’t focus so much on Jesus now do they . It’s all about Joseph Smith and the false BOM and all the other BS that comes from it. The church is nothing more than a well oiled business money machine. But endure to the end and return with honor. SHAMEFUL what they really stand for. I mean no disrespect to you.
@@jimbomanzano4785 The old saying of endure to the end is hilarious, us Mormons have been saying that for way too long . If the church only focused on Jesus and the Bible , I’d be back in a second , but we both know this is not the case. Best wishes to you kind sir.
You mean the section that a pedophile write down? The man who sealed more than 20 women before his "beloved" Emma? who never met the requirements of section 132? to the one who married 11 sets of sisters and a mother and daughter? Without a doubt a holy man, similar to Jesus Christ, right? How disgusting that they compare JS with Jesus Christ
Lol never thought of it that way🤣. I still have my sweet tea made at home using monk fruit or stevia to sweeten. My mom died diabetic but wouldn't touch caffeine. When I was pregnant years ago and had high blood sugar my doctor mentioned using unsweetened caffeine. So I did and I've never had a blood sugar problem since.
It's your choice whether or not to have your sweet tea. If you are missing your old sins, then I suggest praying for help if you really want to stay away.
@@lysanderxx1664if you think trans is morally equivalent to sweet tea you’re nuts. I’ve never drank it before but it is a stumbling block for some where I live. Most give it up when they find the truth.
Hitting the nail on the head. The Church needs to get more strict and bear the rejection of the world. Being nice at the expense of pointing people to Christ and exaltation is cowardly and against everything Jesus stood for.
President Nelson and Elder Oaks get the last word in this. They could not have been more clear. It is going to be very difficult to rein in alternative voices which are often considered spokespeople such as Sharon Eubank et al. BYU professors and even Deseret Book employees.
Former Mormon here. This guy makes sense. He’s seeing things clearly. There seems to be a problem that needs to be acknowledged fast. My still-LDS kids are getting influenced by this confusing LGBT LDS subculture and I fear for them. Sometimes we need to stand together even when the world is against us. The LDS used to understand and embrace being different. Will they still?
I felt like sharing this for those of us who are struggling with our testimonies and confidence in our church and priesthood leaders. I still have worry’s, questions and doubts that need to be resolved. But as I’ve been studying the scriptures, I came to realize that all of what’s happening in the church, was prophesied. And we are privileged to be living in this time, although it is difficult. Isaiah prophesied that there would be a great cleansing, and that cleansing would begin in the Lords Church. And he specifically talks about the leaders at the very top who claimed to know Christ, were liars and didn’t know him. Past prophets have prophesied that the church would be in bondage and as Brigham said “onto the very brink of hell by their leaders” and the servant prophesied in D&C 85 would come and set the house of God in order. Now I’m not saying the apostles or prophet are leading us astray, it’s not for me to judge and I can only sustain them and pray, and any mistakes made will be set right. I personally know President Nelson is a prophet. So when these changes are made it is difficult for me to reconcile what I know to be true, with what is being allowed to happen that goes against the truth. We need to hold fast to the iron rod, and don’t let go or condemn those chosen to lead. We have to pray for them, especially when wrong decisions are made. And protect our families as Fathers/Mothers without condemning or judging a leader that may be making a mistake. Another thing that has helped me, is past prophets such as Benson, j. Reuben Clark, Joseph smith etc., all warned and prophesied that there will be wolves in sheep’s clothing that wear the garments of the holy priesthood. Not just people who are astray, people who are evil, that actually have an agenda to destroy the church. A great story to read about this communist agenda is the “secrets of the Melbourne man” by Marion Albert law. Who as a missionary in Australia, met Melbourne man who said they had infiltrated every government, church and institution but our church was the only one they hadn’t infiltrated in the top 12 apostles and prophet (back then anyway). But Joseph Smith gave us a key, his exact words were “a key that never rusts” and said if things go bad, to follow the majority of the twelve and the records of the church, because God will never let the records fall into evil hands again. I believe there are conspiring men that are even members of the seventy, I feel as though I’ve met one. And a few members of the 12 have fallen away in the past. But God is in charge and we need to have faith, build up our testimony, and be the anchors that stay in the church to help pull people back who fell away because of serious doubts and confusion or those evil leaders. As long as we actually have priesthood power to bless our family, nothing can take those we love away from us. The last thing I’ll say is God has allowed his children to receive bad blessings/cursing if they wanted it bad enough. This didn’t make the prophet of that time untrue. Just like Mormon was told by God to no longer prophesy and that it was too late. So I think there’s a possibility that some of these changes could be because of our wickedness, and that it is causing our prophet/apostles to be told by God to keep their mouth shut and let us have what we want that is wicked, and deal with the consequences. Kind of like the Israelites that wanted a king when God told them not to, and let them have it and told Moses they had rejected him. Heber C Kimball prophesied that there was a severe test coming in the last days and many would not make it unless they had the Holy Ghost. I feel like this would be a serious test, to sustain the brethren even when we disagree. Anyway thanks for reading my rant but I love your videos Jacob, and appreciate your candor. I love that more of us are speaking out and commenting and sharing.
Thank you so much for these insights. Yes, the Lord told Samuel to give the people what they wanted, AND to lovingly warn them about the consequences. THAT is exactly what our leaders are doing. This story is in 1 Samuel 8.
And I just have to add the recent quote by President Nelson, quoted most often by other leaders, “in coming days it will not be possible to SURVIVE SPIRITUALLY without the guiding, directing, comforting and constant companionship of the Holy Ghost”. He didn’t say “without the church”. We need to be close to the spirit! Receiving personal revelation to help guide us through these mists of darkness. Hold to the rod! Hear Him!
I just started coming back to church hoping to raise my son away from this evil so perverse and fraught in this world. If my son isn’t safe from this in church, where is he safe?
The church can’t “keep him safe.” Only living gospel principles keeps oil in our lamps. I trust no one completely in the church anymore with my daughter’s learning, after my trust was betrayed in the last stake we attended. I teach her the principles and commandments myself and we go to church to feel the Holy Ghost confirming those truths. If we hear things even at church that don’t align, we disregard.
@waterboy330 @peanutbutterandjelly2755 @shandrews @breanthorson8910 the Church is still true. why would it be restored just to fall so soon after? i think of it like, the Church is in its adolescence and is going through a period of rebellion. with the help of the members, it may well mature out of this. but the members have to stay and stand their ground, or the Church will collapse altogether. consider this, when Christ came to America and established His Church, it flourished for about two centuries, then declined. Joseph Smith restored the Church two centuries ago, and now it is declining. so, we know what will happen if we let history repeat itself now, we know what we will become, we have been warned. so don't abandon the Church! stay and help save it, please! we still can.
Sometime in the 90s, we had two women join the Church in my ward when I was a teenager. Later, these two women confessed to the Bishop that they were transgender woman. The Bishop had to call Church HQ to get clarification on what to do. The two women had to revert back to men as part of the repentance process. They did so. The two men joined us for Preisthood afterwards. The ward accepted them and were very supportive of them in the repentance process. Its now 30 years later. We now have mixed signals from the Church on transgenderism. This is very confusing and concerning to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Maybe this should be a wake-up call to all LDS members who are serious about following God. Once you open the door to people trusting their personal spiritual senses more than ancient prophets, it shouldn't be surprising people start trusting those senses more than modern prophets. Yes, there are many verses than talk about prayer and many that talk about the Spirit, but none explain how to pray to know the truth through the Spirit. Even if we go with the LDS interpretation of James 1:5, it still doesn't say anything about how to correctly interpret spiritual experiences. When you rely on prayer without any guidance for how to understand the answers to prayer, you get people believing God told them to help their child get transgender hormones. Yes, God revealed the truth about Jesus to Peter, but we're not Peter. Jesus told the Apostles the Spirit would teach them all things, but we're not Apostles. Why should anyone believe the Spirit or God would reveal things the same way to them? The LDS model of truth is a house built on sand. Jacob's Collective Witness Model sounds like a sincere attempt to reinforce the walls of the house, but it doesn't change the foundation.
I think sometimes the line between Policy and Doctrine may seem a.little blurry. Even I am confused by some things like the example you have provided. But I just continue too do everything I can to do the simple things the Lord has asked and I find myself at peace with the things I cannot reconcile and have faith that one day the Lord will reveal and explain (teach) us that we don't understand.
That's so awesome about the men who repented and were also accepted happily by the saints around them. If you focus on the scriptures and the actual leaders of the church in General Conference, you'll be fine. Weird bishops like the one in the video and strange people on social media don't speak on behalf of God for the world, even if they act like it.
If I took a time machine back to 2008 when I was going door to door advocating for Prop 8 and told my past self where we would be in 2024 in the church, I would have never believed it. On a lighter note I would have believed a video of Alex Jones ranting about how they're turning the Mormons gay.
Same here. Canvassed for the church also in riverside. Did not attend my daughter’s gay marriage because I didn’t want to be a hypocrite Now what are we to believe? 😢
@@norynemoss6331 I will tell you what I believe. Lets be like Moses, who when he came down from the mountain and saw the wickedness of the people, he was sad and angry and told the people off for forgetting God so quickly. Moses did what God wanted even though everyone around him was not. Lets do that, keep our Shields high and swords ready.
Gays can get married now, so we deal with is as the law requires it. People who are having gay sex or are gay married aren't going to the temple, so I'm good. Church leaders and The Lord will never announce in conference that gay marriage is good.
I attend BYUI online as a Family and Human Services student, and I can tell you my own experience has been the curriculum backing the Proclamation 100%.
This is OUR CHURCH participating in the evils of Baal worship . MY _FIRST_ "PROBLEMS" came with the ABOLISHMENT of Home Teaching , PLUS the OFFICIAL DECLARATION of Church buildings as *SOFT TARGETS* , *_IGNORING_* the realities of what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING in The world. _today_ . To help YOU with your "CONFUSION" - which _SHOULD *NOT* EXISTIST* . *NO* This is EVIL _ENTERING IN_ . Remember *YOUR* Temple covenants . These are NOT "CHURCH TEACHINGS" . These are ABSOLUTELY the "philosophies of MEN ..." . THIS is the sickness of *THE* WORLD , something we are COMMANDED to reject . _My_ "testimony" was first of *God our Eternal Father* and His *Christ* who He SENT , and teaching that Christ is "gay" PREYS on the IGNORANT who REFUSE *SCRIPTURE* , Prophetic REVELATION _and_ *TEMPLE COVENANTS* . THUS _I_ *myself* have absolutely NO *"CONFUSION"* . After _ALL_ , WHY should we accept these worshippers of Baal for what they AREN'T If _they_ won't ACCEPT _THESELVES_ for _WHO THEY _*_ARE_* ?!!?
I think a charitable way to read that is, not wrong to be loving and inclusive, but it's a big problem when it's clear that firm truths claimed by the church suddenly change to coincide with societal norms and pressures. it begs if God is truly behind these decisions and changes of heart, or just doctrinal changes made by men all along. @andieland0
Thank you for posting this. Many of us are feeling the same way you do. We go around shaking our heads wondering what is going on. We used to be taught repentance and making right choices
I'm afraid that I have to agree with you, Jacob. It seems to me that this sort of thing is in effect saying that God made a mistake and these people think they know better. I don't understand why the leadership allows this to go on.
@@ItsSnagret It feels like the church is trying to to navigate the tretures waters and are trying to hold out to the end. With that said it seems some of the messaging is that something soon is coming to a-head.
I will NEVER give Deseret Book another penny of my money. I will NEVER send my kids to BYU. If the Church ever supports medical transition of kids (or adults)…well, I’m sure you can see where this conversation is going. SHAME on Deseret Books for supporting the idea that a 3 year old can be trans!!! My kids are more important than the feelings of others, and I’ll never submit them to any of this insanity. God is real, and his principles are eternal. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be God.
Church leaders in 1995: “we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.” Church leaders in 2024: “meh”
@@Gsp989 A damned good one. Abraham did it and where one has done it, so can another. One does not need a modern prophet or apostles to be near the savior or study his teachings.
You left out President Oak’s response to that letter. He basically just said “be nice”. If I was the girl who wrote the letter I would’ve been even more confused and demoralized
Yes, the reply was uncharacteristically toothless. The issues the young woman was presenting are structural, and therefore directly under the purview of the Apostleship. If that young girl and the rest of us by extension that feel the same way are to have any hope of relief, then it starts with the Apostles and how they train other leaders. If leadership training amounts to "be nice" about this insanity, then these problems of cognitive dissonance will continue and demoralize our most faithful brothers and sisters.
Very true - I was sort of caught of guard when he said that as well. But perhaps we do need to be more kind and less filled with contempt toward others who are not conforming while we also speak truth.
@@ItsSnagret the problem is they ask us to be kind to the loud minority while simultaneously talking down to the faithful majority. It feels very one sided
Hearing former Bishops and other non-doctrinal sources isn't always helpful and doesn't mean there is general confusion (though specific individuals may be confused, after all many will be deceived and not abide the day, and the wheat and tares parable is of particular relevance too). The official sources remain pretty clear on where to stand and how to act. The General Handbook is very clear, there is nothing to suggest a man becomes a woman or a woman becomes a man, anyone choosing to socially or medically transition (elective) does not receive the Priesthood, does not receive a Temple Recommend, ordination and ordinances are according to biological sex at birth not different identified gender, those who socially transition will experience some membership restrictions for the duration of the transition, those who identify but who do not pursue medica, surgical or social transitioning and who are worthy may receive callings, Temple recommends, ordinances according to their biological birth sex, it seems the only change to what might be expected is that pro-nouns and preferred names may be recorded on membership records and individuals may be addressed as such - but that's it. Apart from that we are, as has always been the case for Christians, to love our neighbour, including those who sin differently to us, to address individual situations with sensitivity and Christlike love. All of this is in the General Handbook. Elder Oaks Worldwide Devotional, May 22, 2023, went into this far more than just the letter shared by a concerned youth. His full explanation of Love and Law is very clear, and not at all confusing. The doctrine of gender and family has not changed and by all statements will not change, I don't expect it to change, those holding out for change will be disappointed. Those who exercise Love and Law correctly should not be confused with those holding out for change, and their living these two principles more fully should not be interpreted as foreshadowing change. Do not hope for that which is contrary or for eternal things to change, but do hope to be loved and treated with sensitivity. “Any abuse or prejudice toward another because of nationality, race, sexual orientation, gender, educational degrees, culture, or other significant identifiers is offensive to our Maker! Such mistreatment causes us to live beneath our stature as His covenant sons and daughters!” (Russell M. Nelson, “Choices for Eternity”, worldwide devotional for young adults, May 15, 2022) “...Are you confused with gender identity or searching for self-esteem?...Whatever other steps you may need to take to resolve these concerns, come first to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Trust in heaven’s promises. In that regard Alma’s testimony is my testimony: “I do know,” he says, “that whosoever shall put their trust in God shall be supported in their trials, and their troubles, and their afflictions.”” (Jeffrey R. Holland, “Broken Things to Mend”, April 2006) “The restored Church’s positions on these fundamentals frequently provoke opposition. We understand that. Our Heavenly Father’s plan allows for “opposition in all things,” and Satan’s most strenuous opposition is directed at whatever is most important to that plan. Consequently, he seeks to oppose progress toward exaltation by distorting marriage, discouraging childbearing, or confusing gender. However, we know that in the long run, the divine purpose and plan of our loving Heavenly Father will not be changed. …” (Dallin H. Oaks, “Divine Love in the Father’s Plan”, April 2022) “In these confusing times, keeping our feet on the gospel path can be difficult. We hear many persuasive voices urging us to turn our backs on revealed truth and embrace the philosophies of the world. …Free and open doctrinal discussion is important in gospel scholarship, but remember that most things have been put into place by God and simply are not subject to change. The doctrines and principles of the Church are established only through revelation, not legislation. This is God’s plan; we do not have the prerogative to alter or tamper with it.” (M. Russell Ballard, “Equality through Diversity”, October 1993) “Gender is eternal. Before we were born on this earth, we all lived as male or female spirits in the presence of God. …Our knowledge of God’s revealed plan of salvation requires us to oppose current social and legal pressures to retreat from traditional marriage and to make changes that confuse or alter gender or homogenize the differences between men and women. We know that the relationships, identities, and functions of men and women are essential to accomplish God’s great plan.” (President Dallin H. Oaks, “Truth and the Plan”, October 2018) “...In this determination we may be misunderstood, and we may incur accusations of bigotry, suffer discrimination, or have to withstand invasions of our free exercise of religion. If so, I think we should remember our first priority-to serve God-and, like our pioneer predecessors, push our personal handcarts forward with the same fortitude they exhibited.” (Dallin H. Oaks, “No Other Gods”, October 2013) And many more references. The Family Proclamation is as valid today as it was when made.
This is some crazy stuff. I hope the Brethren will clarify and denounce the strange occurrences that it seems even some of the leadership is confused about. I am exhausted at attempting to explain these circus acts to conservatives leaving the Church.
@@lysanderxx1664So are we supposed to do as the Church says and not as it’s doing? Or are we supposed to do as the Church does and not as it says? Something has to change, because this is not sustainable.
@@sonlighter01 Matthew chapter 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they amake broad their bphylacteries, and enlarge the cborders of their garments, 6 And love the auppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, aRabbi. 8 But be not ye called aRabbi: for one is your bMaster, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Like the one YW president, I am also queer, if she means by that that she's a lesbian. I am gay. I have been married to a woman for almost 47 years with several children and grandchildren. I chose decades ago to follow the teachings of the prophets and apostles and give up all homosexual behavior and live the life I just described. I have no regrets. I'm thoroughly happy in the path I chose. I can't image any better life than the one I'm living. I used to be a youth leader. I've been a Scoutmaster and a YM President. I was not "out" at the time and had no problems until I decided to "come out". As I expected, I was released. I suffered no disciplinary action because I hadn't done anything other than to be honest about myself. The Boy Scouts of America then had a problem with me. No "avowed homosexual" could be a registered Boy Scout Leader. The courts upheld that. I knew they would and that's why I asked to be released. I never could figure out what "avowed homosexual" meant. I assumed it meant that a person recognized his own predominently homosexual feelings and that it didn't have anything to do with my choice to stay faithful to the teachings of the Church. So, as far as the BSA was concerned, I was not welcome. As far as the Church was concerned, I was. That's not to say I didn't have my struggles with the treatment I received from some members and leaders. I knew that I was as worthy as the next man. I say that I "experience same-sex attraction." I don't really struggle with it. Once I made up my mind to be faithful, I was at peace with it. Still, there were lots of sacrifices and it wasn't easy. While I didn't struggle with my decision, I still struggle with the way people react to me. I have plenty of grace to give for that, because I solidly believe that I don't need anyone else's approval to set my own course. These events confuse me, again, not because I have regrets, but because I based my decisions on what were told to me to be eternal principlies that could not be altered. If I was again at that crossroad now, would I get the same message from the Church? For now, I think that I would. I still hold onto the idea that I made my choices based on unalterable principles of gender, chastity, and marriage.
Thank you for sharing. I have a son who thought that if he was a faithful missionary and married in the temple, his SSA feelings would go away. They did not. He ended up divorcing after several years, leave the Church and marry his current husband. It breaks my heart. I feel his ex wife was sort of to blame. She went inactive and starting doing things that broke my sons heart. I feel like he felt confused and abandoned. This made him, question everything he thought. The grass all of a sudden seemed greener on the other side of the fence for him and he jumped over.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I can assure you that the doctrine has not changed one bit. Just as some members and leaders may have been inappropriately harsh decades ago, some members and leaders will be going too far in the name of showing support today. Then and now, we just need to look past all the noise and keep our eye on the Lord's prophet and give heed unto all his words as he receives them from the Lord walking in all holiness before Him.
Love you all. Thank you Jacob. I talked with my parents and they still think it’s much ado about nothing and these examples are just outliers and will not become problems. I got them to commit to watch this video tomorrow along with Cwic Show’s Greg Madsen video that he put out tonight. Awareness will protect a lot of people. Those members caught off guard by this are going to get hurt. Satan is doing the exact same thing he did in the War in Heaven. Take pure truths and tweak them just slightly in order to take advantage of the inherent decency of people. He’s very very cunning. Many good people are at risk of falling for his plans.
I've been pointing out inconsistencies since 2019, specifically regarding the fact that church policy is no longer in alignment with the Family Proclamation. No one in my family will even acknowledge that there is a problem or that these things are confusing. If anything, they have shunned me and called me an apostate. My family members have more faith in men than in Christ. Such a problem with prophet worship in our religion.
@@Gsp989 keep your head up brotha. I feel ya. Fight on for what you believe in but do so with joy and patience and even humor. I’ve learned without those 3 things, people I love will tune me out because they don’t find it an enjoyable topic to discuss. Let the Lord work on their hearts and pray that He will help them see what you see. Pick your moments and battles wisely and it will all work out. Praying for ya my friend.
Your parents are practicing a level of cognitive dissonance just like my parents are. The hardest step as a member is to admit to yourself the church is corrupt and not at all what it claims
The problem is, if you go to your key holder with your concerns, as you suggest, you could be a candidate to loose your calling, temple recommend, and or status in the church. Many local leaders have been taught that you should never question the Brethren or the Church. From my experience as a bishop twice, a stake president, and a mission president.
Yeah…that’s my concern. Definitely wouldn’t go over too well lol. I already receive enough pushback from my leaders in trying to get more of a focus on covenants in my ward
The brethren encourage asking questions when one is sincerely seeking truth. You don't lose any callings or temple redlines for asking questions...that's absurd. Unfortunately what happens is people are not asking questions with sincerity. They already have preconceived answers or worse don't hear the answers they want to hear and then find a platform...such as UA-cam... And spout off against leaders and as described in the scriptures... Turn and rend...and eventually align themselves with outside groups that fight actively against the church AND then find themselves losing callings temple recommends etc...
It’s true. The general membership, including local leaders, are so asleep… they see your questions as concerning. Im a very committed, temple loving member. But all these incongruent messages… without corrective action from the brethren… has me wanting to just put my head down, honor my covenants and stay close to Jesus… and keep moving forward… with both eyes open. Perhaps all this is the reason the Lords Servant has to come restore things and move us all to a higher level (COTFB). He can’t come soon enough!
Best video you've made so far. Confusion is an understatement. My wife thinks this is a wheat and tares sort of thing and it will eventually reach a threshold of division.
We must be careful writing people off as tares. Alma and his son Alma, the sons of Mosiah, Saul/Paul, Zeezrom, Amulek, to name just a few, we're probably seen as tares to their wards.
No, tares among members. Leaders have to keep the church from being attacked. Plus Oaks’ talk covers the balance of living God and obeying His commandments and loving your neighbor especially those that don’t share same beliefs.
Thank you for posting this! I definitely agree with "Amy" that President Oaks mentions and confusion about it all is a massive understatement. It feels like beyrayal, hypocrisy and a complete lack of integrity all in the name of "love."
I agree completely. I thought we would be running a tighter ship when it came to gospel doctrine. It's so confusing when a school like Hillsdale College is setting a much better example of Christian faithfulness than BYU. What is going on here!
I have been baffled beyond measure these past few weeks. I have friends “waiting” for our doctrine to change. While I’m defending our beliefs, those in the church are literally conforming to these conflicting ideologies. How do I fight for my beliefs when the church is literally fighting against me. I’m beyond heartbroken. Seriously heartbroken. I love this gospel but if feel lost. I know that what they are doing is not God’s will! This is beyond words. This is going to divide us far more than what the world is doing. Our leaders truly need to stand up or the are complicit in this downfall.
I feel you. The thought I had while reading your comment is that we need to take this personally to the Lord. In his temple. We need to go there and seek whatever enlightenment we can get on these matters. I also agree with Jacob that if we don't talk to our leaders, they will all think that everyone in the church is okay with this stuff. If they get no pushback, it means that we all agree with society. We have to go to our bishops and say something. As much as we don't want to. We just have to do it. I have no idea how my bishop would receive it. Maybe I'll lose my calling if I do this. Maybe he'll think I'm terrible. Or maybe he'll agree with me. I don't know. But I think we have to say something. If enough of us do, the stake presidents will hear about it and then the area authorities, and it will go up the chain. And we have to do it the right way. I think Jacob has modeled that right way for us today.
@@crazyaboutcards I agree. I actually wrote a letter to the first presidency which I have never done! When I listen to the prophet and apostles, they are not in alignment with these outliers but….if something is not done, silence is acceptance. Too many are already so confused. In my heart, I know completely that this is wrong. I can discern between truth and error. However, this shakes us all because it makes absolutely no sense. Unfortunately, taking it to our bishops and stake presidents may just confirm this gross error. I can’t believe how many people are jumping on this train. We are specifically told to fight for our beliefs and not advocate or condone this behavior. Read Elder Holland’s talk “The Cost and Blessings of Discipleship.” It spells it out perfectly!
It sucks seeing people go through this. I once was a Member and served a mission but I saw cracks in the church over 2 decades ago. Here is what is going to happen to most members in your boat. First you are going to question if the leadership is called of God. When the conclusion comes back no. Then you're going to question if God is giving anyone revelation. When that answer comes back no. Then when you are going to question the first vision. Then when you realize is not true. Then you question Christianity and realize it is also false. When you realize you just hit bottom and then need to figure out what is now True and build from there. Good luck in is not a fun Journey but it is one you will grow from and find a true peace that I never would have found in the Mormon Church.
The church leadership has made it clear that they govern from the top down. They do not appreciate the members’ advocacy to their bishops, regardless of your position. Church leaders have also made it clear that legally protecting the identity of a child molester is more important than protecting the abused child. That confuses me more than accepting a transgender/lgbtq member.
I understand exactly where you are coming from. I’m struggling with the same things. I hope that those of us who still think and feel this way can support each other in staying faithful to what we know is true. For me that means staying in the church and keeping my covenants in the best way I know how. I think it is very possible to be gravely concerned with what is happening and also staying loyal and faithful to the church. I think it’s not only possible, but necessary. I think at some point the Savior will clear out the money changers from the temple (or church office building) and I want to still be here when that happens. I don’t think he’ll allow the church to fully apostatize before His coming.
In the future, which of the two actions below do you think will be more likely to lead to disciplinary action by leadership? 1) Publishing opinions stating that the Church leaders are erring in caving on “gay marriage” and the “LGBTQIA++” agenda. 2) Publishing opinions stating that the Church leaders are erring in not doing enough to respect all things “LGBTQIA++” Today it seems like someone saying #2 would be likely to get promoted at BYU and elsewhere in the Church.
It's unbelievable how quickly the culture has shifted since Nelson took the reigns. Unless there is mass pushback, I fear that Nelson will be remembered by historians as the Church leader who destroyed the institution. One can look to the Church of England to see the future - we very likely will become a shrinking religious institution. I can't imagine there is much numerical growth at present. And given the feminist emphasis I imagine that the birth rate has decreased substantially as well.
That's just a straight up lie. He's so clearly a man, and everyone knows it. But we're supposed to pretend otherwise for the sake of being "kind" to him. It's not kind to lie to people.
This is tragic! The Scriptures are VERY CLEAR regarding sexuality, and homosexual behavior is ABSOLUTELY unacceptable and COMPLETELY forbidden ! There should be NO confusion regarding this issue . People who support homosexual behavior and the abuse of their physical bodies by "sex- Changing" hormones and surgeries will answer to God for their behavior. That is NOT going to be pretty. If your chromosomes are XX , you are FEMALE. If they are XY or XXY. you are MALE, NOW AND FOREVER!
Local leadership needs to be careful to avoid creating a two tier system of obedience requirements to commandments. Actively celebrating, affirming, or allying with those breaking commandments specifically because they are breaking those commandments is a head scratcher to me.
Well, there is three levels of obedience in the gospel. Celestial which the brethren want us to achieve. Next the terrestrial who believe in Christ and live to be like him. And telestial who live a worldly life. When we strive for the highest we achieve better results. Yet the gospel is inclusive of all levels of redemption. We need to make them choice of where we want to be and live it.
What I would tell this youth is that this is a perfect example of holding to the rod while feeling like we are in the midst of darkness. Not holding onto someone else’s hand “trusting” that they are holding onto the rod. And many people will mock you but trust the rod in your hand and don’t be ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
You certainly hit the nail on the head! I have been a member of this Church for almost 70 years and have always sustained our leaders. I was taught that the persecution of the Saints in my day, would not be physical but would Be a persecution of our beliefs. I never really understood this until now. Even members of my own family are questioning the lack of clarity from our leaders. I believe the day is soon coming when the faithful members of the Church will be but a handful as confusion and doubt take hold. We are told that even the very elite of the Church will be deceived and fall away. I love and sustain and support our dear Prophet and believe all he has taught us. It is up to me, now, to seek the Holy Ghost and do what I am impressed to do through the Holy Spirit. The world is spiraling downward at an ever increasing speed......we really need to tighten our grip on the iron rod and focus on what is right and true and turn a deaf ear and a blind eye to the foolishness of men. I love your podcasts Jacob, and am so thankful for young people like yourself, who stand firm in the faith and the teachings of Christ. May God bless you and your family is my fervent prayer!
I’m not active in the church. I’m a lifelong member but no longer believe in the exclusive truth claims. However, I’m with you totally on this Jacob Hansen. Biological men are always men and biological females are always female. ‘Male and female created he them!’ I agree with President Nelson Gender remains fixed, pre-mortally, mortally and post-mortally. I am bemused by Richard Ostler. If nothing else, this just confirms that the church is slowly losing it. Yes I’m confused.
“And my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they who lead thee cause thee to err and destroy the way of thy paths.” - 2 Nephi 13:12 Great video Jacob, we must have the guiding influence of the Holy Ghost to get through the days ahead, the collective witness model you’ve shared is a good foundation, brothers and sisters, I love you all, hold to the rod, stand firm in what you know to be true 🙏🏼
How many of the married brethren joke in EQ about their wives making the decisions? It's gotten completely out of control and out of sorts. The ordinances have been changed, God's law has been muted and our leadership have been blinded by the world's influence. The gospel is what we need right now and to follow His commandments as close as we can getting back to the source before all this began.
I'm really confused and I'm one of the church leader that Jacob says we should ask about this. Who am I supposed to ask? I have youth that struggle with these messages of the world and now mixed messaging from the church isn't going to make that any easier. What about when my own children come to me and ask. How and what am I to teach them? Does that Family Proclamation posted in my home really mean anything in light of what is happening? What about the Law of Chastity and the serious temple covenant made by faithful saints about this law. The CES letter, Book of Abraham, Seer Stones, troubling statements from Brigham young, polygamy, and all the other stuff the anti mormon/ex mormons bring up doesn't bother me at all but this inconsistency and the confusion it creates bothers me greatly. What do I tell the youth? What do I tell my own children? At this point I can only point to what Apostles and Prophets have said on the subject including our current first presidency. But, if the mixed and confusing messaging continues in the church, at what point will they stop listening to what I say or think that their parents and leaders are just wrong? They may start to think: "If they are wrong on this, why should we listen to them on anything else?" This is dangerous territory and I hope our Prophet and Apostles provide some clarity soon. My calling is hard enough, this kind of confusion and mixed messaging makes it nearly impossible.
Spot on! I teach gospel doctrine, this inconsistency in messaging makes my calling harder. It also makes my kids question what I say vs. what they see.
So when my grandmother who drank coffee her whole life and struggled to give it up, in her 70s that was a good enough reason to deny baptism. But now we allow this?
A total smack in the face to anyone who has struggled with the little things like coffee and been denied baptism. In the hierarchy of sins, I think we all know which sins are more egregious than coffee consumption. The question is why church leaders don't see the hypocrisy of this absurdity?
I'm an exmo and non-believer, but I empathize with Jacob's position here. If, like him, you believe the LDS Church to carry the spark of divine truth and therefore that it should be held to a higher standard, it must be very discouraging to see it reacting to the changing cultural zeitgeist just like any other business-centric man-made institution. When the Church behaves like a corporate entity that appears more concerned with ESG compliance than with promoting clarity and consistency in their Gospel message, it is hard not to conclude that, well, maybe it really is just another corporate entity with a product to sell. I don't agree with Kwaku on a lot of things, but it does appear that the Church is laying down a runway to help facilitate a significant modification to current doctrine and policy - much like how it has been done in other large corporate entities like Disney, Warner Brothers, Apple, etc. (I'm a former director-level executive from the Walt Disney Company. We got our first forced bites of the DEI sandwich way back in 2014 or so when they required all managers to take "Inclusivity Training" and started forcing us to interview unqualified candidates for open positions because they were trying to adjust their employment demographics. You can see how that's worked out for Disney in the dozen or so years hence.)
Well stated. Saw this in government 20 years ago when I was first employed. Hideous reprocussions now hitting the military. All should be warned that in order to fulfill needs , the drafting of women is nigh😢
Alma 47:36 Dissenters will always be our biggest problem. Don’t lose faith. Sometimes the wheat and tares have to grow together but judgement is coming and the “inner vessel will be cleansed.”
@thoughtfulfaith This video is NEEDED! Excellent job. So many members are sick of the church leadership turning a blind eye to this extreme Liberal theology. Theology that has infested the church and its culture.
Hopefully all can realize the truth of mormonism in people like you! Keep up the bigotry and exclusion! It must be so hard to exist in this diverse huge world. Stay in the temple and church to avoid any individual thought and any love for humanity. ❤
I don't always agree with your videos, but this was amazing. Your message was sincere, honest, soul-searching, and real. In 30 minutes you encapsulated what so many members have faced or are facing: how to balance what we've always been taught, with what appear to be changing core doctrines. Thanks for your thoughtful video, and for having the guts to post it. I sincerely, sincerely hope that this doesn't land you in church discipline as it has so many others. God bless us all as we try to find the rod and cling to it.
Part of the problem is that the church keeps changing in response to open criticism/activism. It’s about time that members on this side of things start speaking up!
Wait... Who has been disciplined for speaking this way??? I don't agree with Jacob, but I'm horrified to hear that someone could face church discipline for saying these types of things... Or sharing quotes from President Oakes
@@meganwilliams4588 Sustain was perverted to me "uplift" or "support". However it they are going the wrong direction then I will not sustain them but oppose them.
@@MichaelWalmsleyJr You'd be surprised and I have been surprised. I myself was called into my leader's office for sharing scriptures from the Book of Mormon that raised questions to me about polygamy. I can only imagine that Jacob is getting "loving" messages from his leaders to take down or tone down his questions as we speak. This "other" side of the church leadership - the censorship side - is almost as insidious as the "wishy-washy" side that won't take a firm stand on the issues Jacob is analyzing.
"I will give you a key that will never rust. If you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray." - Joseph Smith
First of all, I don’t believe Joseph ever sad this. Especially because he said if the church were to ever be put in the hands of BY he would lead it straight to hell. This quote you point out goes contrary to the vision of the tree of life in the Book of Mormon. We are to hold to the iron rod. Which is the word of God found in the scriptures. And Christ is The Word. The man in a white robe actually did lead Lehi astray into a dark and dreary waste. It wasn’t until he prayed to God that he was led out of it.
@@BadA_patriot He did say it and it's been quoted by prophets since. The only ones claiming he didn't are that growing apostate sect within the Church who want to believe they can be true to the Restoration while believing the current Church is in apostasy. In reality, they are simply building tabernacles to dead prophets while stoning the living ones, as mankind has done through history. The priesthood line of authority, with it's keys, has been consistent from Joseph, to Brigham, down through to today.
Do you have the original source for this quote? I’ve used it before and got the same pushback … looking into it, I can’t find a credible source of JS actually saying that, as far as I can go it was a boy heard it from JS then wrote it down decades later, so I’m hoping you found something more concrete
@@jamesh8519 The source of that particular quote is member William Goforth Nelson, who lived from 1831-1922. Because he quoted it later in life, those who want to disbelieve the Church has gone astray discount it as untrustworthy. Basically, they don't WANT to believe it. But here's their problem. Others heard the Prophet make similar statements: "Joseph the Prophet...said, "Brethren, remember the majority of this people will never go astray: and as long as you keep with the majority you are sure to enter the Celestial Kingdom." - Orson Hyde ""I heard the Prophet Joseph say that he would give the Saints a key whereby they would never be led away or deceived, and that was: The Lord would never suffer a majority of this people to be led away or deceived by imposters, nor would He allow the records of His Church to fall into the hands of the enemy." - Ezra T. Clark
This is shocking , confusing, and totally disgusting! Thank you for shining a light on these outrageous and insane goings on within the LDS church! Please! Keep up the wonderful work!
The doctrine of the "natural man being an enemy to God" has been tossed aside by many in the name of being nice. The thinking is that if one's inner desires and appetites are strong enough, then the "honorable thing" to do is to embrace them. It's a completely egocentric view of the world, the opposite of what the Savior taught regarding losing oneself in the service of God. What a bizarre world we live in that we identify ourselves primarily by our sexual proclivities and divide into "communities" based on preferences of sexual expression. Fortunately, when I hear the cuts of President Nelson stating eternal truths with clarity I am comforted and know that truth will prevail. And we do strive to love everyone as the Savior counseled, but love does not mean approval.
“Leaders also counsel against social transitioning. A social transition includes changing dress or grooming, or changing a name or pronouns, to present oneself as other than his or her biological sex at birth. Leaders advise that those who socially transition will experience some Church membership restrictions for the duration of this transition.” So that is direct contradiction (amongst others) to what this Bishop is saying.
Well, let me tell you, in my ward there is a young lady that thinks she's a boy and they let her go to the temple and do baptisms. She does them as a female, but still! When I took issue with this and went to the bishop, among other things, he said that he talked to the stake president, and it rests with him as the bishop to make that decision. Basically, he told me to mind my own business he had the final say. At least I spoke up to the bishop about it and feel better that I did. It still is wrong in my mind to let her go. She's changed her dress, hair style, and name. And she told the whole ward about her being a boy during a talk she was giving in Sacrament meeting. We have several young people in our ward who identify as something other than the sex they were born as. It's disturbing.
@@teresalane1004 A Bishop is a judge in Israel and has the responsibility to deal with such things. His failure or success to uphold God’s standards and guide members on the covenant path is all recorded in the Books of Life. All in all it’s a shame to hear that. I can only hope that the Truth reaches them. You did your part though. I think the subject is such a sticky thing.
@igoldenknight2169 Yes, he is, and I'm okay with that. I didn't mention that the bishop said that as a youth, she got a pass because of the lack of maturity (that's not exactly how he said), eluding she might grow out of it. And I said, and if she doesn't when she turns 18, you're going to tell her she can't go to the temple anymore? That doesn't seem fair, I said. He kind of shrugged and said that wouldn't be up to him but the bishop at that time. I'm just waiting and watching and working at keeping my testimony of God's plan for us and Christ's roll as our Savior and Redeemer.
@teresalane1004, read your comment again to yourself, and think about it. Really think about it. I think your bishop had the right idea when he told you to mind your own business. People like you are why other people leave the church.
HELP PLEASE. I met recently with my bishop, I was confused about the two returned missionaries that moved to our ward and got married like almost two years ago, they partake of the sacrament, etc, the stake has knowledge of this and my bishop says, is case by case, meaning to me that one married same sx couple'case can be different than other, he left me more confused.
What???? How can this be case by case? Church discipline is certainly administered case by case by that is a blatant violation of the law of chastity. There is no gray space there. The Savior explicitly commanded the Nephites that they were not to allow anyone unworthy to take the sacrament. I don't know how any bishop or stake president could knowlingly allow that. There's also a limit to what he probably can do. A bishop isn't going to cause a scene in the middle of sacrament to prevent people from taking the sacrament. If he'd counseled people that they should not take it and they choose to do so anyway I'd say they do it to their own condemnation. But to meet with him and just have him say it's case by case blows my mind.
WHAT?!!! You stick to the truth regardless of what you're seeing! You have to hold on to your own testimony in spite of this abhorrent situation in your ward. Goodness.
I am a bishop. The church needs to stand for righteousness and quit cuddling. I have 10 children what am I supposed to tell them? That God is inconsistent, that the "proclamation to the world the family", it's no longer valid or it needs to be amended to comport with the standards of the world? This is insanity!!!
@jessea2871 I'm 63 no faith crisis just concerned for my children and grandchildren. It is their testimony I am worried about not mine. I joined the church when I was 17, I have a firm testimony of the restoration. Thanks for your sincere concern
Being in AZ when I heard about this I was close to being done with the church. I’m trying hard to start attending church and being more faithful but it’s hard when the church itself doesn’t seem to stay faithful to the doctrine.
This echos everything I’ve been saying, thinking and feeling. I know many family and friends in the same boat!! The mixed messages are hurting my heart and very troubling 😭😭.
I could type for days on this. I've been dealing with the LGBTQ+ issue for almost 20 years because I have a gay son who came out at 17. I love my son so very much. I would never do to him what others have told me they would do to their son/daughter had they done the same thing. My son was actually he was very afraid to tell us because his friends had him convinced we would disown him. That's simply not who we are; yet I think the importance of loving the sinner and not the sin has gone to love the sinner and accept the sin. We also have some very dear friends with a transgender son (now daughter) who are the kind of parents thinking the church will eventually change its stance on LGBTQ+ marriage in the temple. I have a real hard time understanding this from a membership perspective; let alone the perspective of the entire church. I have felt for a very long time now that it will be the LGBTQ+ issues that will separate the wheat from the tares in a significant way. We know that a major apostasy within the church will occur before the Lord returns. I'm honestly dealing with a lot of heartaches for many reasons, and this enlarging dilemma makes my heart and spirit ache due to what I see as accepted wickedness. As one who tries to be a critical thinker, you could take this "confusion" as to the proper approach to proclaimed doctrine much further. If an individual felt like his neighbor's wife was supposed to be his wife and started hooking up, then it can be blamed on whatever excuse they can come up with that pacifies wickedness and sin. This Moral relativism could explode into who knows what. My mission president warned about this at our last mission reunion many years ago. He was an Emeritus GA at the time and at one point was Elder Holland's Bishop. He was/is probably the holiest man I ever knew. I so wish I could talk to him now and share this video with him to get his feedback. I have others to send it to. I'm sure their responses will be interesting. Thanks for posting this video though. This is and will continue to be a massive problem in the Church. It needs to be talked about, for sure.
I have a gay son too. You'll lose your relationship with him if you remain in the church. You'll have to choose because the church is hostile towards gay people. Jacob is a good example of cruel, thoughtless loyalty to the church at the expense of people who just want freedom to choose
@@GingerNinja84 the leaders have never agreed with each other. There are still racists and conspiracy theorists in church leadership. They seem united, but their paychecks depend on a good public perception
I too have family that has same gender attraction that I love so much. ❤ Like you, I believe we can love the sinner and not the sin. My love and support could never save anyone not really. Only Christ can save, and even he cannot save us in our sins. There is a way through these mist of darkness its through them holding tight to the iron rod. Thank you so much for your post. My heart aches too. Xx
Hard to imagine how priesthood leaders could be so "kind" and supportive of a lifestyle that blocked them from spiritual progression (can't go to the temple). It also puts the women off relief society in a really tough spot, tacitly implying they should all accept a man as a woman. And what if it were the other way around, and a woman identifies as a man. Is she welcomed in priesthood? Can she be ordained? Pass and bless the sacrament? Hold priesthood callings? Give priesthood blessings? And marry a woman with support from the church?
For now, presenting as a man while not being an XY male, is not sufficient to be ordained to the priesthood. Could that ever change? It is extremely unlikely to ever be official but in some places, weird things can creep in; the closer you get to Zion the more likely it is.
@@aperson_1852 At some level of deception yes, a girl presenting as a man, and succeeding in doing so, and somehow has a church record identifying her as male, and manages to convince the bishop and congregation that she is male, and is worthy, will indeed be ordained to the priesthood BUT whether it is *effective* is less certain; it falls in the "amen to the priesthood of that man" Priesthood isn't really a *power* like magic that YOU or I have and it always works because *I* have it. It is more likely a type of bond by which the angels that DO have actual power, recognize your *authority* to perform blessings and so on; and in Heaven, document the fact of a properly conducted blessing or baptism, and whatever actual power may be needed, provided by the power of the Holy Ghost but not by ME. I'm just the HANDS. If my hands are unworthy, then priesthood is not effective, even though I am ordained.
This is really difficult to navigate. I guess I am still a hard liner when it comes to sex and family. I can welcome a transgender to my ward but I could never, ever, ever, acknowledge the sex change. I'm sorry but the LGBT lifestyle is completely in opposition to the Plan of Salvation. "Lauren" in this video is a man. Yet, the bishop my akes the statement early in the interview that "you are definitely a woman". No, he's not and we better quit pretending that he is anything else. A dear friend of mine was excommunicated because of adultery and yet we want to welcome these people with open arms. I don't get it. President Kimball never would have allowed this into the church. Why are we allowing it now?
34 … I saw the multitudes of the earth, that they were gathered together to fight against the apostles of the Lamb; for thus were the twelve called by the angel of the Lord. 35 … Behold the world and the wisdom thereof; yea, behold the house of Israel hath gathered together to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb… Don’t end up in that mob
I am often criticized by and get pushback from people in my ward and other members online for speaking out against LGBT advocacy in church. Other members get angry at me and accuse me of being hateful, closed-minded, or overzealous if I do not subscribe to the idea that the only quality we ought to have as members is to be "nice." They call me contentious and then point out that the Lord condemns contention. More and more, I cannot have conversations with members where we will agree on doctrine OR practice in the church. I feel very much alone.
As a gay dude, I affirm you in that “LGBT Advocacy” is not the same thing as loving gay individuals in general. We’re not all part of the rainbow activism.
@@alexlindstrom555 I'm curious to know your thoughts as to how you (being gay) reconcile your current situation/lifestyle with the doctrines and principles of eternal celestial marriage, family, and chastity. (Chastity is relevant regardless of orientation). Between yourself and the Gospel, where do you find harmony and compatibility? Where do you find incompatibility and discord?
@@christianthompson9734 I currently believe I’ll have the chance to be married in this life of the next. I keep my covenants and have never been with anyone sexually. I know some people are adamant that I don’t use “gay” unless I’m acting on it that way. I’ve come across members of other faiths who are gay/SSA and who believe the things we do about marriage and chastity. I try to channel my feelings into taking care of myself and also forging friendships. There’s not commandment against me loving men (and women). It’s this world that has conflated “love” with “sex.” So I don’t know my own future. I just think I have a perspective that defends the gospel.
I find the same thing in my ward and even have to tread lightly in my own home for fear that my daughters will stop talking to me due to my stance on what I feel is not only right, but the gospel taught by the Savior. Both of them are enrolled in BYU, either on campus or through the pathways program. And both are return missionaries. I completely agree that there needs to be clarification from the 1st and the 12 immediately. We need to be that shining light on the hill and stop worrying about offending someone. We as a body need to allow what comes from standing for truth and right. And have faith that our Heavenly Father will have our backs when the time comes.
You are not alone. Listen to Elder Holland’s 2014 talk, “The Cost and Blessings of Discipleship.” Hold to what you know. I was told I was “too” black and white. Look, there is truth and there is error. There is right and wrong. There is no “gray” in these. Those who believe so are just plain wrong! Hold tight!
Excellent video. The "chest feeding" part broke my heart for that innocent baby. It made me so sick inside. It was so grotesque to me. I am grateful for Heavenly Father, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, the scriptures, and when apostles do preach strongly on the family proclamation and that it is not ours to change. It is the Lord's doctrine and He is the same yesterday, today and forever. That is a sure foundation. We should not be tossed about with the winds of change of society. I don't understand why stronger stances have not been taken more consistency and why there are so many double messages with different appointments of people that don't embrace the doctrine, and what is allowed at BYU and different church houses and weak, worldly bishops, etc. I try to focus on what I know with all my heart. I know Satan is the master of confusion. This confusion does not belong in the church. We need to stand firmly with God and his precious Word and not fear man or the world. You can't choose both. The worst words I can imagine hearing would be for Christ to say "I never knew you," which I believe means you never knew me. He is the Word. I love and embrace the Word. I reject this world. I believe these truths are woven into my being and if it offends others, then I can't care about that because they have already rejected me to my core being.
It’s only a matter of time. I’m in the process of preparing my family to leave. People keep asking what do we replace the church with. My answer is that we have to build it.
Just went to the funeral of a friend that left the church. He took up alcohol and it took his life. I’ve felt the same many times, only to pray and God to tell me I’m in the right place. Stay the course. I’ve since started to try to make sense of it and what I’ve found is the math supports this church. I could share dozens of stats but we active members will and do suffer far less than the rest of the world. Suffering that is avoided by generations of children outside the church. We benefit from the highest marriage rate, the lowest divorce rate, the lowest drug and alcohol abuse, the lowest violent crime the longest average mortality rate. Etc etc etc. There is one single factor that will and does determine the amount of suffering we have in life and that of our posterity and that is the frequency we pass through those doors at church. Preparing to leave this church is preparing for generations of suffering. The stuff we have to wade through to be members is nothing compared to what those outside the wall have to endure now and into the future. Plz do some research before you pull the trigger on this decision. My brother said it best. At first it feels like having the freedom to eat a dozen Krispy Kreme donuts everyday. It won’t be until years later and maybe even a generation before you will see the results. Doubt your doubts! Give it another week! Talk to someone with faith and if you don’t have anyone you can always email me and I’ll listen and may have some experiences that might help give you some strength to keep moving forward. My email is: scottchilds@gmail.com
rhe Church is still true. why would it be restored just to fall so soon after? i think of it like, the Church is in its adolescence and is going through a period of rebellion. with the help of the members, it may well mature out of this. but the members have to stay and stand their ground, or the Church will collapse altogether. consider this, when Christ came to America and established His Church, it flourished for about two centuries, then declined. Joseph Smith restored the Church two centuries ago, and now it is declining. so, we know what will happen if we let history repeat itself now, we know what we will become, we have been warned. so don't abandon the Church, stay and help save it, please! we still can. maybe some of us who are thinking this can find contact with each other and organize a group of some sort to try and reach the leadership..
Follow Jesus Christ. Read the Bible, which is the Word of God, every day. We become confused because men who claim to be prophets are not following the perfect and sinless Christ, the one and only Holy God, the all powerful Creator of heaven and earth. If these men are not following (and they certainly are not) the Christ, the Savior, the Creator; then to follow them will destroy our souls. When those false prophets stand before Christ he is going to tell them "I never knew you, depart from me ye workers of iniquity" They will not be capable of confusing The Christ for a moment. Read the Bible and follow Christ. Follow Only Christ.
I just had the same conversation this video has said just yesterday with my husband. We are being trained in our temples on how to escort a trans gender member who comes dressed as the opposite sex comes to do a session. What? Wait? 🤔 how can this be? If someone were to be smoking as they walked into the temple then scan a recommend and want to do a session we would most definitely be calling someone from the office to come talk to them. Yet if a man dressed as a woman comes and scans their recommend we are to call staff to walk them to the gender appropriate dressing room make sure they dress in the appropriate ceremonial clothing and if they do they are allowed in the session. How can this be?? In the last days it says the church will be persecuted. Are we being accepting to the world to avoid this persecution at the expense of the doctrine of Jesus Christ. How can we not stand for the doctrine and have faith that the Lord will protect us? I join you in that confusion and would 100% support the in standing and being vocal in support of the doctrine of the church!!
I have thought a lot lately about the wheat and the tares. I believe this is an example of that at its most extreme. I also think about something I heard about Heavenly Father not stepping in to stop someone from committing a sin so that they might be judged righteously. I also remember the 70’s when activism was at a high and the heat the church took for excommunicating apostates. The brethren might be allowing this to go further so that when they glean out the tares there is no question about the activist state of apostasy. I hope it is something along these lines and not that the brethren are struggling with making the correct decision.
“The Lord is letting the wheat and the tares mature before he fully purges the Church. He is also testing you to see if you will be misled. The devil is trying to deceive the very elect.” - Ezra Taft Benson
@@joselito811 By their fruits ye shall know them. This thought of fruit has been on my mind for several weeks now, even before we got to 1 Nephi 8 in the current CFM. While there are confusing things going on in the Church and world right now, the Church itself, the doctrine, the Gospel of Christ, is still the only doctrine recognized. That doctrine is THE ONLY doctrine on Earth that I know of that yields the fruit on the Tree of Life. Regardless of what members are doing, or leaders are allowing, etc, the fruit of the Gospel of Jesus Christ has not changed. So long as that remains true, I will hold out faithful to the harvest. We were warned "in a coming day" that without the gift of the Spirit one could not survive spiritually.
@@gomcse Ironic he'd say that as he presided over a Church propagating the devil's deceit in extending the Priesthood to Blacks. We have a lot of brethren caught up in the tares and events like these are going to force the faithful to re-evaluate past decisions and make a hard decision between God and apostacy.
I joined the church on 1999 and looking back the church organization is nothing what it was, for the last 3 or 4 years I been struggling with my faith because of many topics and how the church leaders are not stepping out to be 100% clear specially LGTBQ talks, bishops and stake presidents going all out to support LGBTQ and I start questioning about if revelation is really working or is God choosing those men to lead us?? Great video.
Yes and no. Many liberal churches embrace the rainbow 100%. The confusion in the LDS Church is the mixed messages. This is what Jacob points out in this video. Statements by Nelson and Oaks affirming biological gender are contradicted by the Sherinian hire as well as many examples concerning lgbtq members.
I personally know of very conservative churches that are not as confused as this. It is something that is going to totally cause a division in the church.
I was an active member of the LGBTQ+ community lifestyle. The cut-off from the temple is very telling and consistent with the eternal family and gender doctrine of the Church, the rest sounds like mercy from the Lord. Homosexual sexual sins are sinful, like straight sexual acts outside of marriage, I know it. I tried every way I could to reconcile God with a homosexual lifestyle and only found emptiness and misery. If leaders want to be kind, I understand that. The Proclamation is true.
Everything the church does is for legal /financial reasons. This woman was LEGALLY identified as a woman by the Govt. Me thinks Kirton McKonkie is just protecting their aSSets. It is ILLEGAL to discriminate in any way based upon someone's race or GENDER. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act prohibits an employer from treating you differently, or less favorably, because of your sex, which is defined to include pregnancy, sexual orientation, and gender identity.
@@velocirapture89 the so-called church has amassed hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars. They are not taking any chances losing their tax-exempt status. At this point they could lose every single DesNat member and it wouldn't affect the bottom line at all.
Anti discrimination law would not apply to the religious functioning of the Church. In that sense, the First Amendment protects us. If it did, homosexuals would already be suing us to gain access to temple marriage.
On time, on target. Thank you Jacob. Has the day come where faithful church members can no longer have one foot in the world and one foot in the gospel? The world's divergent path is moving away at such a rapid pace that members are struggling to transfer their weight to one foot or the other. Decisive Church leadership focusing on consistency between words and actions would greatly inspire the righteous way forward.
The world is a mass of confusion and darkness. If the church and those holding the priesthood keys refuse to provide clarity and guidance, or worse yet, add to the confusion, how should members process that? Further, why does this seem like a case of do as I say, not as I do?
I love the Restored Church for being undiluted and undefiled. A Church that understands the Apostasy. And here we are. I converted ...and three years later I see the church becoming like the mainline, fallen Evangelicals, embracing LGBT rebellion. Such a shame.
The Church culture seems to have become more feminized in recent years. The messages are vaguer and mushier. Just take a look at Church material from a few decades ago, and it’s clear to see how much bolder things were then. How do we get that boldness back?
You are encountering the same challenge to remain faithful to God's moral law and commandments that people in other churches have been for some time. It seems that there is an attempted "long march" of an ideology through all churches. Loyalty to God is required by the faithful in spite of the falling away from God by some or many of the leadership.
We need to remember that we have been warned by the prophet that there will be things in the coming days that test our faith and if we do not have a strong testimony and personal revelation then we will not survive the last days spiritually. Many people have assumed that these test or challenges are all from outside the church influences that we need to be prepared for. Obviously there are those within the ranks that could also test our faith and convictions and dedication to the church and our testimonies. These same types of things happened in the early days of the church with the failing of the church sponsored bank, members of the 12 turning against the prophet, etc. It happened to the Jaredites. It happened to the Nephites. It will happen in our day. There are mixed messages, but those mixed messages are not coming from the prophet nor the Spirit of Christ. They are coming from BYU educators, bishops, stake presidents, auxiliary leaders, influencers, and so forth. We must be careful about who we listen to and follow. Remember Lehi saw a "man" in a white robe who said follow me. It doesn't say he was an angel. Lehi followed him and after many hours he finally stopped following him and prayed for God's guidance. At that moment he saw the tree. Just because someone appears to be in an important position does not mean we should be following them or giving heed to what the say or do. This is a time of separating the wheat from the tares. Spend your time listening to the prophet and reading the scriptures and going to the temple. This is a time that over half the church (10 virgins) may find themselves without oil. Don't be one of the 5 foolish ones. Perhaps there is a reason for the mixed messages....to see if we are wheat or tares, wise or foolish, good ground/soil or stony, sheep or goats, etc. Something to ponder.
Great apostasy occurred when the Savior was on the earth, when Joseph restored the church, and I don't believe we should be surprised that before the Lord comes we see the worst of it!
The disconnect is somewhere between the the prophets and apostles, and all these administrative and local leaders. The brethren are clear on this topic anytime they speak on it. But then you see what’s happening at your local or intermediate levels… and you wonder how our practice seems so far away from what’s taught at the general conference pulpit.
That is what I believe too. Way back in 1996 at a Regional Leadership training meeting one of the RS leaders said Pres. Hinckley's greatest source of discouragement was that the church membership as a whole was so slow to act or move in following the brethren. I've never forgotten that and now see too many of the rank and file members of the church, as well as local leadership, going their own way (the way of the world) rather than following the Savior, and His apostles, the Prophet being the chief apostle. The Brethren, and other general leaders are quite clear about moral issues, but too many don't tune in or study their words because they (the words) conflict with what the member has been indoctrinated with by the world.
@@micmacc2014False, Deseret Book is owned by Deseret Management Corporation. It has it's own management and board. The Brethren do not sit on the board of directors. DMC owns Deseret Book, and it has it's own management. From what I gather, and I've been digging into this a bit, the Brethren are somewhat disconnected from what DMC does since it's mandate is to "keep to owner principles" meaning they need to loosely keep to Church standards, though that definition could be interpreted loosely. Same with the Comms guy that got hired, that was DMC management, not the "Church." A similar structure is how BYU is, though the Brethren have a bit more influence there. Keep in mind parent companies and subsidiaries must maintain certain levels of independence so as to maintain legal and financial protects. I have a feeling the Brethren are mad as all get out but are somewhat limited in what actions they can take at this time.
I have an update from one of the local leaders I contacted about this. He said that a trend in the last few years is that decisions about these issues are increasingly being left to individual stake presidents. Many of you were probably aware that this was the case, so maybe it’s not news. My interpretation is that SLC is wanting to get themselves off the hook here and pass the buck to stake presidents. Top leadership can pay lip service to the issue, while avoiding responsibility for enforcing rules. It’s akin to a federal level politician *saying* he supports this or that issue but is leaving it to the states. It’s like a candidate saying, “I’m for marriage but the Supreme Court ruled so, darn, therefore it just is what it is.” Or when a politician says, “I’m for marriage and overturning the Supreme Court decision, of course, but do I support a nation wide definition and law? Oh no, I think I’d leave it to the states.” But the difference here is that top leaders *COULD* step in and clean house if they wanted to. It’s a convenient cop-out, in my opinion. It seems top leadership doesn’t have the will anymore to enforce uniform standards. Or maybe more people in leadership are nudging for more pro-“LGBTQ+” changes than once thought. And what happens when/if a vast majority of stake presidents favor promotion of “LGBTQ+” relationships and other such things? So much for confronting an issue with civilizational importance. “Out of SLC’s hands and left to individual stake presidents.” And how much longer until The Family Proclamation is deemed as being not in conflict with “LGBTQ+” advocacy? It seems we’ve already arrived at that point. It’s apparently not necessary that The Family Proclamation be rescinded for the Church to officially proceed with “LGBTQ+” advocacy. But who knows what will happen? It’s still possible to turn things around. I would encourage everyone to contact their leaders and make their feelings known. One of the worst things you can do is stay silent. Know that you can contact leaders anonymously if you wish to.
I really don't know what to make of all this. I wish I could speak to President Oaks or President Nelson or Elder Bednar personally one on one to understand all of this and see what they are seeing. I just don't know what causes the Brethren to seem to stay their hand or to seemingly condone certain things with their actions. It just doesn't make sense even on a practical level. The church pulled out of scouting and quite literally leveled the BSA Great Salt Lake Council building where scouting was once done, and all to avoid stuff like this. It's like throwing the baby out and retaining the bath water.
The only explanation is that they are out of touch with God. There is no excuse for their behavior in recent years. I fear for their souls in the afterlife. Hundreds, if not thousands, of young latter-day saints have been lost to the rainbow cult because of their cowardice. Had they taken a stand for God, we would not be in this state of chaos and confusion.
The church promoted the gay culture when they had a chance to get out when they first allowed the kids to be gay. What happened to standing for something?? Hinkley wrote a book with that title, but where is the standing for something? The fact it took them more than a year to leave shows they're support for this evil culture. Why do y'all make void all the scriptures because of one statement from a president of the church? Who by the way was assuming what he said based off of a different matter. And you know what happens when you ass-u-me.
As a devout member of the Church for 55 years who has a firm testimony of the Restoration, I find this troubling. Also, regarding 14:00, none of us are perfect as mortals. We are fallible human beings with natural man tendencies that need to be overcome so that we can become more like Jesus.
The way the church is going now I fear the next thing they will do is let the blacks have the priesthood even after many prophets have repeatedly said no. /s
Twice I endured much fear and dread for weeks (e.g., of a brick breaking through a window of my house, maybe even into one of my children’s bedrooms at night) to support the Church’s efforts to protect marriage and the family, not to mention going door-to-door and standing on street corners holding signs, all of which took much faith and courage. And now the Church hires a man as the new head of public affairs and media relations who, as a sitting bishop, celebrated the Supreme Court’s decision to force same-sex marriage onto every State. Really? In light of all this confusion in the Church, how can we still expect its members to take the law of chastity seriously? After all, men are hardwired “by God” to spread their seed far and wide; it’s the most “natural” thing in the world (while denying oneself, especially when such feelings are all but overwhelming, is the most “unnatural” thing in the world - though we call it “peculiar”). If “God given” same-sex attraction justifies homosexual behavior then why doesn’t good “old-fashioned” heterosexual attraction between “cis-gender” people justify their promiscuity? Fortunately, some modes of sexual expression are still illegal and/or not celebrated, in spite of some individuals’ longings. But for how much longer? All this does not mean I am not compassionate on this subject. My heart breaks for people with same-sex attraction, and other people, who will never experience sexual pleasure and fulfilment in mortality because they are obeying the Lord’s law, in addition to missing out on other common blessings of being married to an opposite-sex partner.
I remember back then when my Dad was a bishop. We had a trans who was a convert and the day of his baptism he came dressed as a women. My Dad told him to dressed back as a male because he will be listed down as a male, but he refuses. So my dad just called off the baptism. But gladly he agreed the following week that he’ll baptise and listed as a male in the church.
One of the best videos I’ve seen…excellent coverage of a very important situation…thanks for your thoughtful and courageous willingness to discuss these matters.
It is a God-send that someone is finally willing to speak openly and honestly about these inconsistencies in a public forum. I have felt alone in my concerns for years.
@@bestill365 Sounds like what my father said about the blacks before 1978. Do you really not see how its the same. Doctrine in the "restored" church as changed multiple times since 1830. Prepare yourself.
Note: The graphic that listed Richard Ostler as "Bishop Ostler" was created by thoughtful faith. Richard Ostler is a former bishop and the reference to him as "Bishop Ostler" is not meant to mean he currently holds that calling. In the culture of the church members regularly refer to former bishops still as bishop.
Thank you for clarifying that Jacob. We appreciate your transparency. Some people try to demonize you, but you're a good guy. Better than many.
Thanks for the clarification. I assumed He was a current bishop...
I still think you should take that graphic off of your video. I just don't think it's fair to leave it there. I think you're creating confusion and anger unnecessarily. There's enough concerns in the content without doing that. While it's true he holds the office after release, keys are everything, and he no longer holds them at that point. I honestly thought that he was somehow in the presiding bishopric without me knowing when I first saw your video. I think leaving it there undercuts your credibility and causes unnecessary added doubt, which I don't believe you intended to do.
@@kendalljacobs7053Jacob wants to make money from his channel. It's important for him to be provocative in order to make money.
Ostler is to Bishop as the Pope is to pooping in the woods!
I don't think a video has ever upset me this much. When you read the opening letter to President Oaks, I thought "YES! I feel that so strongly". Then you went on to tell me so many things I didn't know. It makes me feel betrayed, as someone who is always trying to follow the prophet and be a witness of Christ. If all of the things I've been testifying were suddenly undermined by shifting church doctrine to align more with others who have been "advocating for change to the brethren"... It would be a really huge hit to my faith.
I prayed after this and my tumultuous heart was calmed. "All will be well" is the answer I got. I'm going to surrender my fears to God, utilize the atonement, continue praying for the leaders and influencers of the church, and continue testifying of things that have been confirmed to me by the Holy Ghost.
8:34 the gathering of Israel is not making people feel more comfortable and included. It is about bringing people to Christ, which often involves you taking up the cross and following him. Not being affirmed in your sinful behavior
So walk like Chris did. Don't judge others in their sinful behavior. Love begets love.
We are absolutely commanded to judge sin. Not an individual’s eternal fate or standing before God, but behavior? Absolutely, it is a commandment to do so.
@@davidlloyd227 interesting interpretation. Wishing you the best
@@mattsalter09correct interpretation
In the very end of the latter days, the wheat and the tares will be allowed to grow together before the final gathering and burning takes place. I think that’s what we’re witnessing right now. it’s sad to see.
Unfortunately I am not at all confused, because I've seen this coming for a while now. I had no idea it was so ingrained in mainstream church activities because my children are grown and I have no grandchildren. My personal belief is that as we come ever closer to the return of Christ, He is stripping away every false idol that stands between us and Him, and that includes church hierarchies that have been useful in the past. Every worldwide church is seeing this. In the end, there should be nothing that stands between us and God, and we may have to face some facts we never thought we'd have to face. I have been a faithful member for most of my life, but while I have not lost my testimony, I no longer believe we are being led in the right direction. I am developing my personal relationship with God with nothing in between us.
Also, I have to say that as a woman, I find it deeply offensive that some leaders in my Church are indulging men who engage in cosplaying as women. I've heard some say they just "feel" like a woman. To that I say you couldn't possibly because you are NOT a woman and therefore have no idea how a woman feels. I am never going to call a man in a dress Sister anybody, no matter how well he does his makeup.
Such a well-reasoned comment. Thank you for sharing. I am in agreement.
My thoughts are this... We have been told to follow the prophet our whole lives and it seems that the prophets are still staying firm. I'm a member in Australia and none of this is going on over here thank goodness but I also know that laws have been passed here that make it illegal to not be in the affirmative for church leaders when they are councilling same sex issues. I think the church will have to be very careful going forward as this will be an issue for leaders everywhere. They will have to be very careful how they publicly address these issues as they could be charged criminally. We know what the fundamentals have always been and bishops and stake leaders DO NOT have the authority to make these decisions but if the general authorities can't address these problems for fear of being criminally charged then this is going be the norm worldwide. It's a sobering thought and I can see the church really becoming a conflicting and contradicting place because while the leadership knows what they should be doing, society and laws will stop them from doing so...
Yes I agree with you I’ve heard leaders in the church say things that didn’t sound quite right such as, if members of the lds church leave the church and join another church that’s not lds they’ll still be okay and can still get to the celestial kingdom I couldn’t believe my ears! We may have to concentrate on our relationship with the Lord and get all our instructions from him because we are in danger of being misled!
This video (and the young woman's letter at the beginning) captures my concerns. In addition to "confused," I also feel betrayed and undermined as I try to uphold the truth on these issues with too little church support.
feels like you're focused on the hateful parts of the church.
@jaredralphstanley I believe that the traditional views of marriage, family, gender and sexuality are the best course and best plan for happiness for individuals and for humankind's future. I hold to truth. It's not hate.
@@Jon316-y5u cool sounds great say it however you want, gonna be a confusing next 20yrs for you!
@jaredralphstanley Unfortunately you may be right on that. It's been confusing already.
I feel betrayed as well. The church expects my loyalty but I do not feel like they are loyal to me. It’s like they are making changes in a local level and hoping we don’t notice.
So I can have sex before marriage, commit adultry after marriage, use pornography and allow promiscuous behavior if I use the words inclusivety and tolerance? These words cancel sin?
Those who are tolerant in all things, stand for nothing.
Sooooooo my view!!!!!
Yes, as long as those behaviors involve a homosexual or trans partner you should be fine.
As long as your LGBTQ- that’s the hall pass apparently.
Yep - you got it totally right as a result of this confusion - All sin is now cancelled out -There's no need for a Saviour now So you can all go home!
that logic sounds about as retarded as telling yourself that your straight while having a transgender girlfriend who was born as a male, that circular logic makes zero sense in god's eyes.
anyway i'm saying this from the perspective of someone who doesn't even go to this church anymore.
I applaud you for your bravery!! I know this was difficult for you but you are asking the right questions and you can see the true emotion that you feel! This is a wonderful video and you’re so right about everything you said!!
Jacob, you have done a fantastic job of faithfully encapsulating what many of us are experiencing. I am a convert of 38 years and, for the first time, I feel the firm foundations beginning to crumble under ideology and seeming subversion.
I have always relied on having my feet firmly planted in gospel sod to withstand the failing of hearts. And yet, witnessing this, my heart is failing me. I am tightening my grip on the rod, but the fog is thick.
Stay strong Henry, we are a living Church - meaning we are adapting and figuring things out. When other are weak, we need to stay strong and anchored.
“I am tightening my grip on the rod, but the fog is thick”! I love that!!! Can I use your quote…that is so good!!!
@@ItsSnagret - is correct with this advice to remain faithful even during challenging times.
“Leaders also counsel against social transitioning. A social transition includes changing dress or grooming, or changing a name or pronouns, to present oneself as other than his or her biological sex at birth. Leaders advise that those who socially transition will experience some Church membership restrictions for the duration of this transition.
“Restrictions include receiving or exercising the priesthood, receiving or using a temple recommend, and receiving some Church callings. Although some privileges of Church membership are restricted, other Church participation is welcomed.”
Henry Gonzalez,
I agree with your comment. Please review 1 Nephi 8 verses 24 and 30. Not the differences between clinging and continually holding fast to the rod. We all want to be the second ones...continually holding fast. We're all in this together. Let us stay the course, partake of the fruit, and remain at the tree, ignoring the mockers and scorners in the Great and Spacious Building which has NO FOUNDATION.
I am a nobody and am not preaching to anyone. Just a voice of warning. I came to the LDS church in 1987 from the RLDS. We saw the same decay over the 25 years preceding 1987 in the RLDS (C of C). Our college was infiltrated. Leadership sought recognition by world and national organizations including the UN. Leadership totally detached from the gospel and sought ecumenical acceptance and embraced more widely accepted standards from the world. The Book of Mormon addresses and predicts this among the churches. The affairs of this world, nation and ultimately this church are wrapping up quickly. Repent and turn to the Lord. Cling to his gospel.
It's almost like Satan is eternally tearing down all that is good.
That is so interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience. I saw an interview about a year ago with a female apostle from the Church of Christ. She seemed really confused on what their doctrine even was. I can't remember the exact details but I remember thinking that it was so strange that she really didn't even understand her own church's doctrine. Maybe a better description was that it seemed like the doctrine wasn't clear for the church as a whole, and they could kind of just believe whatever they wanted. I need to go back and watch that again to remember those details. It was very interesting and for me, testimony strengthening. I could see the difference between our churches and I felt that ours was absolutely the correct one. It wasn't even a struggle I was having. I've always believed ours was the correct one. It just increased my faith and testimony to watch this interview.
Now you can transition to FLDS if you're still looking for regressive conservatism.
Ah. Just a typical intolerant "Christian". Nothing to see here.
So true, thank you
If I ever leave the church I love, it will be because they have become cowards. These are the first examples I’ve experienced that make that future seem like a possibility.
MY _FIRST_ "PROBLEMS" came with the ABOLISHMENT of Home Teaching , PLUS the OFFICIAL DECLARATION of Church buildings as *SOFT TARGETS* , *_IGNORING_* the realities of what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING in The world. _today_ .
To help YOU with your "CONFUSION" - which _SHOULD *NOT* EXISTIST* .
*NO*
This is EVIL _ENTERING IN_ .
Remember *YOUR* Temple covenants .
These are NOT "CHURCH TEACHINGS" .
These are ABSOLUTELY the "philosophies of MEN ..." . THIS is the sickness of *THE* WORLD , something we are COMMANDED to reject .
_My_ "testimony" was first of *God our Eternal Father* and His *Christ* who He SENT , and teaching that Christ is "gay" PREYS on the IGNORANT who REFUSE *SCRIPTURE* , Prophetic REVELATION _and_ *TEMPLE COVENANTS* .
THUS _I_ *myself* have absolutely NO *"CONFUSION"* .
After _ALL_ , WHY should we accept these worshippers of Baal for what they AREN'T If _they_ won't ACCEPT _THESELVES_ for
_WHO THEY _*_ARE_* ?!!?
I'm under the impression that if things get bad enough, we will be able to rely on the Lord through the things laid out by the president of the church. Even if everyone in the church office building and maybe even some of the Quorum of the twelve become corrupted, we can follow the counsel to "follow the prophet" unwaveringly.
Another update: "People are Confused .. Follow the Prophet" by Missionary Discussions seems to provide some clarification.
@@GldnClawJust watched it. Excellent response video! Wish more people would watch it.
I watched a conference session from 2009 the other day and was so surprised by how clear things were back then. I felt like I had come back home in some sense and I nearly cried. I never ever thought I was going to struggle like this with the church. I have worked through all the church history stuff, polygamy, priesthood ban etc etc. I never once anticipated that I would have to deal with this stuff. I have not felt more unsettled ever in my life.
@Zach Though it seems daunting and very troubling and confusing, please recognize that we are in the last days and the devil is running amok leading many astray. Prophesies must be fulfilled. God have warned us that if we are not careful, even the very elect may be deceived. He also told us the gates of hell will not prevail against this church. The wheat and the tares are being separated. God’s wrath is eminent and his timing is not the same as us.
Hold on tight to the iron rod (the word of God) and focus on the Tree (Love of God) as we go through this journey. Do not fall into the river - filthy water (depths of hell) and stay focus when the mists of darkness try to overtake us (Temptation of this world). Partake of that glorious fruit. Stand steadfast and immovable and endure well to the end. Stay Prayerful for guidance from God and remember the devil is the Father of All Lies and his job is to steal, kill and destroy and lead many of us astray with his craftiness and cunningness. The Holy Spirit is our guide. Stay Blessed. 🙏🏽❤️
"Doubt what you don't know before you doubt what you know."
Stay strong, and focus on the fundamental rather than cultural aspects of the Gospel.
The fundamental aspects of the Gospel are those principles and ordinances that pertain to Salvation.
@@TheRegimentalscotI fully intend on doing just that. I’m not even close to thinking of leaving the church or breaking my covenants. I have stayed while so many of my friends and family have left. I’m not going anywhere. I can’t help but think our ancestors were driven from their homes, murdered and then froze and starved to death on the plains. If they can stay faithful in those circumstances me I have no excuse to be wishy washy now.
@@ZachGorham44 💯 percent. My ancestors were pioneers too. Stay the course. Hold fast to the rod. Do not let those from the Great and Spacious Building get to you. It doesn't even have a foundation. It can't stand.
I have had the same feelings for a while. I have never had an issues with priesthood ban(I am black) nor poligamia etc. And I really treasure how clear was general conference back in the 2000's and even 2014. I don't think I can stay in the church with the pathway the leaders are taking.
It’s interesting and sad to see this… when we read in 4 Nephi the reason the people fall is due to Pride but Why did the Church fall?
1. Denial of Parts of the Gospel
2. Did “receive All manner of wickedness” and “administer that which was sacred unto him to whom it had been forbidden because of unworthiness.”
The wind could never knock down the tree, but the termites would.
"All the water in the world, However hard it tried,
Could never sink the smallest ship, Unless it [gets] inside.
"And all the evil in the world, The blackest kind of sin,
Can never hurt you the least bit,
Unless you let it in."
President Boyd K. Packer, Nov. 1999
How interesting. The pride cylce this time around calls itself “pride”.
@@fidgetthecrazy HA!! YES. Yes yes.
Can never hurt the church the least bit, unless it lets it in.
This section in Doctrine and Covenants came very strongly into my mind while watching this. It’s so comforting to know that those who are being deceived will be reclaimed.
Section 50
1 Hearken, O ye elders of my church, and give ear to the voice of the living God; and attend to the words of wisdom which shall be given unto you, according as ye have asked and are agreed as touching the church, and the spirits which have gone abroad in the earth.
2 Behold, verily I say unto you, that there are many spirits which are false spirits, which have gone forth in the earth, deceiving the world.
3 And also Satan hath sought to deceive you, that he might overthrow you.
4 Behold, I, the Lord, have looked upon you, and have seen abominations in the church that profess my name.
5 But blessed are they who are faithful and endure, whether in life or in death, for they shall inherit eternal life.
6 But wo unto them that are deceivers and hypocrites, for, thus saith the Lord, I will bring them to judgment.
7 Behold, verily I say unto you, there are hypocrites among you, who have deceived some, which has given the adversary power; but behold such shall be reclaimed;
8 But the hypocrites shall be detected and shall be cut off, either in life or in death, even as I will; and wo unto them who are cut off from my church, for the same are overcome of the world.
9 Wherefore, let every man beware lest he do that which is not in truth and righteousness before me.
LOL if only the BOM was real . Its a nice story made up by yours truly Mr Joseph. Such a wacky religion. Why anyone even stays in .. is the true confusion.
@@jodikephart5895The faithful Latter-day Saints will remain faithful and endure to the end believing in Jesus Christ and following his teachings on faith, repentance, forgiveness and in doing good to all men that we may gain eternal life. We already believe that Satan and his minions are doubling their efforts to deceive because they know their time is running out. You’re proving to me that they really do exist.
@@jimbomanzano4785 Mormons (and I’m one of them) have been “” enduring to the end for YEARS “” Jesus and his teachings are wonderful but the Mormons don’t focus so much on Jesus now do they . It’s all about Joseph Smith and the false BOM and all the other BS that comes from it. The church is nothing more than a well oiled business money machine. But endure to the end and return with honor. SHAMEFUL what they really stand for. I mean no disrespect to you.
@@jimbomanzano4785 The old saying of endure to the end is hilarious, us Mormons have been saying that for way too long . If the church only focused on Jesus and the Bible , I’d be back in a second , but we both know this is not the case. Best wishes to you kind sir.
You mean the section that a pedophile write down? The man who sealed more than 20 women before his "beloved" Emma? who never met the requirements of section 132? to the one who married 11 sets of sisters and a mother and daughter? Without a doubt a holy man, similar to Jesus Christ, right? How disgusting that they compare JS with Jesus Christ
Here is my problem. The church will allow this type of behavior, but I can't have my sweet tea. Things are upside down.
I doubt anyone will bat an eye except your doctor when he sees your blood sugar numbers.
Lol never thought of it that way🤣. I still have my sweet tea made at home using monk fruit or stevia to sweeten. My mom died diabetic but wouldn't touch caffeine. When I was pregnant years ago and had high blood sugar my doctor mentioned using unsweetened caffeine. So I did and I've never had a blood sugar problem since.
So true lol
It's your choice whether or not to have your sweet tea. If you are missing your old sins, then I suggest praying for help if you really want to stay away.
@@lysanderxx1664if you think trans is morally equivalent to sweet tea you’re nuts. I’ve never drank it before but it is a stumbling block for some where I live. Most give it up when they find the truth.
Hitting the nail on the head. The Church needs to get more strict and bear the rejection of the world. Being nice at the expense of pointing people to Christ and exaltation is cowardly and against everything Jesus stood for.
EXACTLY 💯!!!!! Should church attendance & membership drastically drop because of this issue....SO BE IT! ..... GODS PEOPLE ALWAYS WINS!
Totally agree
Friendship with the world is enmity with God
Yeah, let's not forget Jesus' parable of the wheat and the tares
President Nelson and Elder Oaks get the last word in this. They could not have been more clear. It is going to be very difficult to rein in alternative voices which are often considered spokespeople such as Sharon Eubank et al. BYU professors and even Deseret Book employees.
Former Mormon here. This guy makes sense. He’s seeing things clearly. There seems to be a problem that needs to be acknowledged fast. My still-LDS kids are getting influenced by this confusing LGBT LDS subculture and I fear for them. Sometimes we need to stand together even when the world is against us. The LDS used to understand and embrace being different. Will they still?
Dude! You are awesome. A really based take on eternal truths. Why are you former?
I felt like sharing this for those of us who are struggling with our testimonies and confidence in our church and priesthood leaders. I still have worry’s, questions and doubts that need to be resolved. But as I’ve been studying the scriptures, I came to realize that all of what’s happening in the church, was prophesied. And we are privileged to be living in this time, although it is difficult.
Isaiah prophesied that there would be a great cleansing, and that cleansing would begin in the Lords Church. And he specifically talks about the leaders at the very top who claimed to know Christ, were liars and didn’t know him. Past prophets have prophesied that the church would be in bondage and as Brigham said “onto the very brink of hell by their leaders” and the servant prophesied in D&C 85 would come and set the house of God in order. Now I’m not saying the apostles or prophet are leading us astray, it’s not for me to judge and I can only sustain them and pray, and any mistakes made will be set right. I personally know President Nelson is a prophet. So when these changes are made it is difficult for me to reconcile what I know to be true, with what is being allowed to happen that goes against the truth. We need to hold fast to the iron rod, and don’t let go or condemn those chosen to lead. We have to pray for them, especially when wrong decisions are made. And protect our families as Fathers/Mothers without condemning or judging a leader that may be making a mistake.
Another thing that has helped me, is past prophets such as Benson, j. Reuben Clark, Joseph smith etc., all warned and prophesied that there will be wolves in sheep’s clothing that wear the garments of the holy priesthood. Not just people who are astray, people who are evil, that actually have an agenda to destroy the church. A great story to read about this communist agenda is the “secrets of the Melbourne man” by Marion Albert law. Who as a missionary in Australia, met Melbourne man who said they had infiltrated every government, church and institution but our church was the only one they hadn’t infiltrated in the top 12 apostles and prophet (back then anyway).
But Joseph Smith gave us a key, his exact words were “a key that never rusts” and said if things go bad, to follow the majority of the twelve and the records of the church, because God will never let the records fall into evil hands again. I believe there are conspiring men that are even members of the seventy, I feel as though I’ve met one. And a few members of the 12 have fallen away in the past. But God is in charge and we need to have faith, build up our testimony, and be the anchors that stay in the church to help pull people back who fell away because of serious doubts and confusion or those evil leaders. As long as we actually have priesthood power to bless our family, nothing can take those we love away from us.
The last thing I’ll say is God has allowed his children to receive bad blessings/cursing if they wanted it bad enough. This didn’t make the prophet of that time untrue. Just like Mormon was told by God to no longer prophesy and that it was too late. So I think there’s a possibility that some of these changes could be because of our wickedness, and that it is causing our prophet/apostles to be told by God to keep their mouth shut and let us have what we want that is wicked, and deal with the consequences. Kind of like the Israelites that wanted a king when God told them not to, and let them have it and told Moses they had rejected him. Heber C Kimball prophesied that there was a severe test coming in the last days and many would not make it unless they had the Holy Ghost. I feel like this would be a serious test, to sustain the brethren even when we disagree.
Anyway thanks for reading my rant but I love your videos Jacob, and appreciate your candor. I love that more of us are speaking out and commenting and sharing.
Such great insights thank you
Wonderfully said. Thank you
Thank you so much for these insights. Yes, the Lord told Samuel to give the people what they wanted, AND to lovingly warn them about the consequences. THAT is exactly what our leaders are doing.
This story is in 1 Samuel 8.
And I just have to add the recent quote by President Nelson, quoted most often by other leaders, “in coming days it will not be possible to SURVIVE SPIRITUALLY without the guiding, directing, comforting and constant companionship of the Holy Ghost”. He didn’t say “without the church”. We need to be close to the spirit! Receiving personal revelation to help guide us through these mists of darkness. Hold to the rod! Hear Him!
Could I get specific references for Isaiah and the other scriptures mentioned? I would like to read these myself. Thank you.
Jacob, please compile all these comments and send them in to HQ.
I just started coming back to church hoping to raise my son away from this evil so perverse and fraught in this world. If my son isn’t safe from this in church, where is he safe?
I feel your pain. Experiencing similar concerns.
The church can’t “keep him safe.” Only living gospel principles keeps oil in our lamps. I trust no one completely in the church anymore with my daughter’s learning, after my trust was betrayed in the last stake we attended. I teach her the principles and commandments myself and we go to church to feel the Holy Ghost confirming those truths. If we hear things even at church that don’t align, we disregard.
Amen
Homeschool and homechurch!
@waterboy330 @peanutbutterandjelly2755 @shandrews @breanthorson8910
the Church is still true. why would it be restored just to fall so soon after? i think of it like, the Church is in its adolescence and is going through a period of rebellion. with the help of the members, it may well mature out of this. but the members have to stay and stand their ground, or the Church will collapse altogether. consider this, when Christ came to America and established His Church, it flourished for about two centuries, then declined. Joseph Smith restored the Church two centuries ago, and now it is declining. so, we know what will happen if we let history repeat itself now, we know what we will become, we have been warned. so don't abandon the Church! stay and help save it, please! we still can.
Sometime in the 90s, we had two women join the Church in my ward when I was a teenager. Later, these two women confessed to the Bishop that they were transgender woman. The Bishop had to call Church HQ to get clarification on what to do. The two women had to revert back to men as part of the repentance process. They did so. The two men joined us for Preisthood afterwards. The ward accepted them and were very supportive of them in the repentance process. Its now 30 years later. We now have mixed signals from the Church on transgenderism. This is very confusing and concerning to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The same thing happened in my ward a few years ago
Maybe this should be a wake-up call to all LDS members who are serious about following God. Once you open the door to people trusting their personal spiritual senses more than ancient prophets, it shouldn't be surprising people start trusting those senses more than modern prophets.
Yes, there are many verses than talk about prayer and many that talk about the Spirit, but none explain how to pray to know the truth through the Spirit. Even if we go with the LDS interpretation of James 1:5, it still doesn't say anything about how to correctly interpret spiritual experiences. When you rely on prayer without any guidance for how to understand the answers to prayer, you get people believing God told them to help their child get transgender hormones.
Yes, God revealed the truth about Jesus to Peter, but we're not Peter. Jesus told the Apostles the Spirit would teach them all things, but we're not Apostles. Why should anyone believe the Spirit or God would reveal things the same way to them?
The LDS model of truth is a house built on sand. Jacob's Collective Witness Model sounds like a sincere attempt to reinforce the walls of the house, but it doesn't change the foundation.
I think sometimes the line between Policy and Doctrine may seem a.little blurry. Even I am confused by some things like the example you have provided. But I just continue too do everything I can to do the simple things the Lord has asked and I find myself at peace with the things I cannot reconcile and have faith that one day the Lord will reveal and explain (teach) us that we don't understand.
@@Dustin_McNabAnd how do you know what you beleive is right?
That's so awesome about the men who repented and were also accepted happily by the saints around them.
If you focus on the scriptures and the actual leaders of the church in General Conference, you'll be fine. Weird bishops like the one in the video and strange people on social media don't speak on behalf of God for the world, even if they act like it.
If I took a time machine back to 2008 when I was going door to door advocating for Prop 8 and told my past self where we would be in 2024 in the church, I would have never believed it.
On a lighter note I would have believed a video of Alex Jones ranting about how they're turning the Mormons gay.
LOL, I can hear his voice. "They're turning the freaking mormons gay!"
LMFAO. Luv that clip.
Same here. Canvassed for the church also in riverside. Did not attend my daughter’s gay marriage because I didn’t want to be a hypocrite Now what are we to believe? 😢
@@norynemoss6331 I will tell you what I believe. Lets be like Moses, who when he came down from the mountain and saw the wickedness of the people, he was sad and angry and told the people off for forgetting God so quickly. Moses did what God wanted even though everyone around him was not. Lets do that, keep our Shields high and swords ready.
Gays can get married now, so we deal with is as the law requires it. People who are having gay sex or are gay married aren't going to the temple, so I'm good. Church leaders and The Lord will never announce in conference that gay marriage is good.
I am honestly confused about BYU. To me seems like BYU needs to be closed.
Yeah, I think at least dropped from tithing funding
It should not be subsidized by sacred tithing funds. I personally have seen so many young women become feminist activists while attending BYU.
I attend BYUI online as a Family and Human Services student, and I can tell you my own experience has been the curriculum backing the Proclamation 100%.
Jacob, thank you for voicing what many of us are thinking. "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!"
Don't worry, thats just the church gaslighting you as per usual
This is OUR CHURCH participating in the evils of Baal worship .
MY _FIRST_ "PROBLEMS" came with the ABOLISHMENT of Home Teaching , PLUS the OFFICIAL DECLARATION of Church buildings as *SOFT TARGETS* , *_IGNORING_* the realities of what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING in The world. _today_ .
To help YOU with your "CONFUSION" - which _SHOULD *NOT* EXISTIST* .
*NO*
This is EVIL _ENTERING IN_ .
Remember *YOUR* Temple covenants .
These are NOT "CHURCH TEACHINGS" .
These are ABSOLUTELY the "philosophies of MEN ..." . THIS is the sickness of *THE* WORLD , something we are COMMANDED to reject .
_My_ "testimony" was first of *God our Eternal Father* and His *Christ* who He SENT , and teaching that Christ is "gay" PREYS on the IGNORANT who REFUSE *SCRIPTURE* , Prophetic REVELATION _and_ *TEMPLE COVENANTS* .
THUS _I_ *myself* have absolutely NO *"CONFUSION"* .
After _ALL_ , WHY should we accept these worshippers of Baal for what they AREN'T If _they_ won't ACCEPT _THESELVES_ for
_WHO THEY _*_ARE_* ?!!?
This is indeed a big problem. Many are confused. Thank you Jacob.
I think a charitable way to read that is, not wrong to be loving and inclusive, but it's a big problem when it's clear that firm truths claimed by the church suddenly change to coincide with societal norms and pressures. it begs if God is truly behind these decisions and changes of heart, or just doctrinal changes made by men all along. @andieland0
your religion is pulled from a hat, and this is what confuses you?
Thank you for posting this. Many of us are feeling the same way you do. We go around shaking our heads wondering what is going on. We used to be taught repentance and making right choices
We still are
I'm afraid that I have to agree with you, Jacob. It seems to me that this sort of thing is in effect saying that God made a mistake and these people think they know better. I don't understand why the leadership allows this to go on.
I imagine they are facing tough situations either way and are trying to figure out the best way to approach it, which unfortunately takes a while.
Scott and Snagret, I think you are both right.
@@ItsSnagret It feels like the church is trying to to navigate the tretures waters and are trying to hold out to the end. With that said it seems some of the messaging is that something soon is coming to a-head.
I will NEVER give Deseret Book another penny of my money. I will NEVER send my kids to BYU. If the Church ever supports medical transition of kids (or adults)…well, I’m sure you can see where this conversation is going.
SHAME on Deseret Books for supporting the idea that a 3 year old can be trans!!!
My kids are more important than the feelings of others, and I’ll never submit them to any of this insanity. God is real, and his principles are eternal. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be God.
And yet our tithing money subsidizes both BYU and Deseret book…
Amen to that....
there are some good departments... i bring scriptures to my students every week and strive to keep a connection to Christ in our studies
There are a lot of really good students, staff and professors at byu. It's still a great place even though it has some problems
I don’t think good members should give up on BYU. Isn’t it worth saving? Don’t we need as many good people there as possible to help save it?
Church leaders in 1995: “we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.”
Church leaders in 2024: “meh”
Betrayal comes to mind here. If leaders fail to hold the line, what chance do we have of surviving in this Godless culture?
@@Gsp989 A damned good one. Abraham did it and where one has done it, so can another. One does not need a modern prophet or apostles to be near the savior or study his teachings.
You left out President Oak’s response to that letter. He basically just said “be nice”. If I was the girl who wrote the letter I would’ve been even more confused and demoralized
That's heartbreaking.
Yes I noticed that too
Yes, the reply was uncharacteristically toothless. The issues the young woman was presenting are structural, and therefore directly under the purview of the Apostleship. If that young girl and the rest of us by extension that feel the same way are to have any hope of relief, then it starts with the Apostles and how they train other leaders. If leadership training amounts to "be nice" about this insanity, then these problems of cognitive dissonance will continue and demoralize our most faithful brothers and sisters.
Very true - I was sort of caught of guard when he said that as well. But perhaps we do need to be more kind and less filled with contempt toward others who are not conforming while we also speak truth.
@@ItsSnagret the problem is they ask us to be kind to the loud minority while simultaneously talking down to the faithful majority. It feels very one sided
Super affirming and super supportive? How about super creepy?
Absolutely. It is creepy.
Hearing former Bishops and other non-doctrinal sources isn't always helpful and doesn't mean there is general confusion (though specific individuals may be confused, after all many will be deceived and not abide the day, and the wheat and tares parable is of particular relevance too). The official sources remain pretty clear on where to stand and how to act. The General Handbook is very clear, there is nothing to suggest a man becomes a woman or a woman becomes a man, anyone choosing to socially or medically transition (elective) does not receive the Priesthood, does not receive a Temple Recommend, ordination and ordinances are according to biological sex at birth not different identified gender, those who socially transition will experience some membership restrictions for the duration of the transition, those who identify but who do not pursue medica, surgical or social transitioning and who are worthy may receive callings, Temple recommends, ordinances according to their biological birth sex, it seems the only change to what might be expected is that pro-nouns and preferred names may be recorded on membership records and individuals may be addressed as such - but that's it. Apart from that we are, as has always been the case for Christians, to love our neighbour, including those who sin differently to us, to address individual situations with sensitivity and Christlike love. All of this is in the General Handbook.
Elder Oaks Worldwide Devotional, May 22, 2023, went into this far more than just the letter shared by a concerned youth. His full explanation of Love and Law is very clear, and not at all confusing.
The doctrine of gender and family has not changed and by all statements will not change, I don't expect it to change, those holding out for change will be disappointed. Those who exercise Love and Law correctly should not be confused with those holding out for change, and their living these two principles more fully should not be interpreted as foreshadowing change. Do not hope for that which is contrary or for eternal things to change, but do hope to be loved and treated with sensitivity.
“Any abuse or prejudice toward another because of nationality, race, sexual orientation, gender, educational degrees, culture, or other significant identifiers is offensive to our Maker! Such
mistreatment causes us to live beneath our stature as His covenant sons and daughters!” (Russell M. Nelson, “Choices for Eternity”, worldwide devotional for young adults, May 15, 2022)
“...Are you confused with gender identity or searching for self-esteem?...Whatever other steps you may need to take to resolve these concerns, come first to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Trust in heaven’s promises. In that regard Alma’s testimony is my testimony: “I do know,” he says, “that whosoever shall put their trust in God shall be supported in their trials, and their troubles, and
their afflictions.”” (Jeffrey R. Holland, “Broken Things to Mend”, April 2006)
“The restored Church’s positions on these fundamentals frequently provoke opposition. We understand that. Our Heavenly Father’s plan allows for “opposition in all things,” and Satan’s
most strenuous opposition is directed at whatever is most important to that plan. Consequently, he seeks to oppose progress toward exaltation by distorting marriage, discouraging childbearing, or confusing gender. However, we know that in the long run, the divine purpose and plan of our loving Heavenly Father will not be changed. …” (Dallin H. Oaks, “Divine Love in the Father’s Plan”, April 2022)
“In these confusing times, keeping our feet on the gospel path can be difficult. We hear many persuasive voices urging us to turn our backs on revealed truth and embrace the philosophies of
the world. …Free and open doctrinal discussion is important in gospel scholarship, but remember that most things have been put into place by God and simply are not subject to change. The doctrines and principles of the Church are established only through revelation, not legislation. This is God’s plan; we do not have the prerogative to alter or tamper with it.” (M. Russell Ballard, “Equality through Diversity”, October 1993)
“Gender is eternal. Before we were born on this earth, we all lived as male or female spirits in the presence of God. …Our knowledge of God’s revealed plan of salvation requires us to oppose
current social and legal pressures to retreat from traditional marriage and to make changes that confuse or alter gender or homogenize the differences between men and women. We know that the relationships, identities, and functions of men and women are essential to accomplish God’s great plan.” (President Dallin H. Oaks, “Truth and the Plan”, October 2018)
“...In this determination we may be misunderstood, and we may incur accusations of bigotry, suffer discrimination, or have to withstand invasions of our free exercise of religion. If so, I think
we should remember our first priority-to serve God-and, like our pioneer predecessors, push our personal handcarts forward with the same fortitude they exhibited.” (Dallin H. Oaks, “No Other Gods”, October 2013)
And many more references. The Family Proclamation is as valid today as it was when made.
This is some crazy stuff. I hope the Brethren will clarify and denounce the strange occurrences that it seems even some of the leadership is confused about. I am exhausted at attempting to explain these circus acts to conservatives leaving the Church.
I understand I feel like a pretzel also after explaining it to my children
As shown in this video, prophets and apostles have clarified what is good and true.
It seems very shallow... we need clarification... answers to to those within the church that state otherwise
@@lysanderxx1664So are we supposed to do as the Church says and not as it’s doing? Or are we supposed to do as the Church does and not as it says? Something has to change, because this is not sustainable.
@@sonlighter01 Matthew chapter 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they amake broad their bphylacteries, and enlarge the cborders of their garments,
6 And love the auppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, aRabbi.
8 But be not ye called aRabbi: for one is your bMaster, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Like the one YW president, I am also queer, if she means by that that she's a lesbian. I am gay. I have been married to a woman for almost 47 years with several children and grandchildren. I chose decades ago to follow the teachings of the prophets and apostles and give up all homosexual behavior and live the life I just described. I have no regrets. I'm thoroughly happy in the path I chose. I can't image any better life than the one I'm living. I used to be a youth leader. I've been a Scoutmaster and a YM President. I was not "out" at the time and had no problems until I decided to "come out". As I expected, I was released. I suffered no disciplinary action because I hadn't done anything other than to be honest about myself. The Boy Scouts of America then had a problem with me. No "avowed homosexual" could be a registered Boy Scout Leader. The courts upheld that. I knew they would and that's why I asked to be released. I never could figure out what "avowed homosexual" meant. I assumed it meant that a person recognized his own predominently homosexual feelings and that it didn't have anything to do with my choice to stay faithful to the teachings of the Church. So, as far as the BSA was concerned, I was not welcome. As far as the Church was concerned, I was. That's not to say I didn't have my struggles with the treatment I received from some members and leaders. I knew that I was as worthy as the next man.
I say that I "experience same-sex attraction." I don't really struggle with it. Once I made up my mind to be faithful, I was at peace with it. Still, there were lots of sacrifices and it wasn't easy. While I didn't struggle with my decision, I still struggle with the way people react to me. I have plenty of grace to give for that, because I solidly believe that I don't need anyone else's approval to set my own course.
These events confuse me, again, not because I have regrets, but because I based my decisions on what were told to me to be eternal principlies that could not be altered. If I was again at that crossroad now, would I get the same message from the Church? For now, I think that I would. I still hold onto the idea that I made my choices based on unalterable principles of gender, chastity, and marriage.
Thank you for sharing. I have a son who thought that if he was a faithful missionary and married in the temple, his SSA feelings would go away. They did not. He ended up divorcing after several years, leave the Church and marry his current husband. It breaks my heart. I feel his ex wife was sort of to blame. She went inactive and starting doing things that broke my sons heart. I feel like he felt confused and abandoned. This made him, question everything he thought. The grass all of a sudden seemed greener on the other side of the fence for him and he jumped over.
I'm sorry. It sio hard. One of my sons just got divorced. It isn't about same-sex attraction, but it is so important to marry well. I'm glad i did.
I love you, Brother. I know you don’t know me but I see much of you from Ward Radio. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings.
@@ChadSolbergThanks very much.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I can assure you that the doctrine has not changed one bit. Just as some members and leaders may have been inappropriately harsh decades ago, some members and leaders will be going too far in the name of showing support today. Then and now, we just need to look past all the noise and keep our eye on the Lord's prophet and give heed unto all his words as he receives them from the Lord walking in all holiness before Him.
Love you all. Thank you Jacob. I talked with my parents and they still think it’s much ado about nothing and these examples are just outliers and will not become problems. I got them to commit to watch this video tomorrow along with Cwic Show’s Greg Madsen video that he put out tonight.
Awareness will protect a lot of people. Those members caught off guard by this are going to get hurt. Satan is doing the exact same thing he did in the War in Heaven. Take pure truths and tweak them just slightly in order to take advantage of the inherent decency of people. He’s very very cunning. Many good people are at risk of falling for his plans.
I've been pointing out inconsistencies since 2019, specifically regarding the fact that church policy is no longer in alignment with the Family Proclamation.
No one in my family will even acknowledge that there is a problem or that these things are confusing. If anything, they have shunned me and called me an apostate.
My family members have more faith in men than in Christ. Such a problem with prophet worship in our religion.
@@Gsp989 keep your head up brotha. I feel ya. Fight on for what you believe in but do so with joy and patience and even humor. I’ve learned without those 3 things, people I love will tune me out because they don’t find it an enjoyable topic to discuss. Let the Lord work on their hearts and pray that He will help them see what you see. Pick your moments and battles wisely and it will all work out. Praying for ya my friend.
Thank you for the encouragement. So true that humor is a great strategy to help soften up sensitive topics. Will give it a go. Thanks again 🤙
Your parents are practicing a level of cognitive dissonance just like my parents are.
The hardest step as a member is to admit to yourself the church is corrupt and not at all what it claims
I agree. I hope people share this video on Twitter, Facebook contacts and groups, etc.
The problem is, if you go to your key holder with your concerns, as you suggest, you could be a candidate to loose your calling, temple recommend, and or status in the church. Many local leaders have been taught that you should never question the Brethren or the Church. From my experience as a bishop twice, a stake president, and a mission president.
Yeah…that’s my concern. Definitely wouldn’t go over too well lol. I already receive enough pushback from my leaders in trying to get more of a focus on covenants in my ward
REALLY?! Just asking questions can get you out of your calling?! That's all it takes? Wait till Sunday!
@@Ivanalager oh that’s a good one. Made me laugh out loud! Thanks!
The brethren encourage asking questions when one is sincerely seeking truth. You don't lose any callings or temple redlines for asking questions...that's absurd. Unfortunately what happens is people are not asking questions with sincerity. They already have preconceived answers or worse don't hear the answers they want to hear and then find a platform...such as UA-cam... And spout off against leaders and as described in the scriptures... Turn and rend...and eventually align themselves with outside groups that fight actively against the church AND then find themselves losing callings temple recommends etc...
It’s true. The general membership, including local leaders, are so asleep… they see your questions as concerning.
Im a very committed, temple loving member. But all these incongruent messages… without corrective action from the brethren… has me wanting to just put my head down, honor my covenants and stay close to Jesus… and keep moving forward… with both eyes open.
Perhaps all this is the reason the Lords Servant has to come restore things and move us all to a higher level (COTFB).
He can’t come soon enough!
Best video you've made so far. Confusion is an understatement. My wife thinks this is a wheat and tares sort of thing and it will eventually reach a threshold of division.
We must be careful writing people off as tares. Alma and his son Alma, the sons of Mosiah, Saul/Paul, Zeezrom, Amulek, to name just a few, we're probably seen as tares to their wards.
Tares among our top priesthood leaders? Never saw that coming.
No, tares among members. Leaders have to keep the church from being attacked. Plus Oaks’ talk covers the balance of living God and obeying His commandments and loving your neighbor especially those that don’t share same beliefs.
Thank you for posting this! I definitely agree with "Amy" that President Oaks mentions and confusion about it all is a massive understatement. It feels like beyrayal, hypocrisy and a complete lack of integrity all in the name of "love."
I agree completely. I thought we would be running a tighter ship when it came to gospel doctrine.
It's so confusing when a school like Hillsdale College is setting a much better example of Christian faithfulness than BYU.
What is going on here!
FOR REAL. Go Hillsdale!
I have been baffled beyond measure these past few weeks. I have friends “waiting” for our doctrine to change. While I’m defending our beliefs, those in the church are literally conforming to these conflicting ideologies. How do I fight for my beliefs when the church is literally fighting against me. I’m beyond heartbroken. Seriously heartbroken. I love this gospel but if feel lost. I know that what they are doing is not God’s will! This is beyond words. This is going to divide us far more than what the world is doing. Our leaders truly need to stand up or the are complicit in this downfall.
I feel you. The thought I had while reading your comment is that we need to take this personally to the Lord. In his temple. We need to go there and seek whatever enlightenment we can get on these matters. I also agree with Jacob that if we don't talk to our leaders, they will all think that everyone in the church is okay with this stuff. If they get no pushback, it means that we all agree with society. We have to go to our bishops and say something. As much as we don't want to. We just have to do it. I have no idea how my bishop would receive it. Maybe I'll lose my calling if I do this. Maybe he'll think I'm terrible. Or maybe he'll agree with me. I don't know. But I think we have to say something. If enough of us do, the stake presidents will hear about it and then the area authorities, and it will go up the chain. And we have to do it the right way. I think Jacob has modeled that right way for us today.
@@crazyaboutcards I agree. I actually wrote a letter to the first presidency which I have never done! When I listen to the prophet and apostles, they are not in alignment with these outliers but….if something is not done, silence is acceptance. Too many are already so confused. In my heart, I know completely that this is wrong. I can discern between truth and error. However, this shakes us all because it makes absolutely no sense. Unfortunately, taking it to our bishops and stake presidents may just confirm this gross error. I can’t believe how many people are jumping on this train. We are specifically told to fight for our beliefs and not advocate or condone this behavior. Read Elder Holland’s talk “The Cost and Blessings of Discipleship.” It spells it out perfectly!
It sucks seeing people go through this. I once was a Member and served a mission but I saw cracks in the church over 2 decades ago. Here is what is going to happen to most members in your boat. First you are going to question if the leadership is called of God. When the conclusion comes back no. Then you're going to question if God is giving anyone revelation. When that answer comes back no. Then when you are going to question the first vision. Then when you realize is not true. Then you question Christianity and realize it is also false. When you realize you just hit bottom and then need to figure out what is now True and build from there. Good luck in is not a fun Journey but it is one you will grow from and find a true peace that I never would have found in the Mormon Church.
The church leadership has made it clear that they govern from the top down. They do not appreciate the members’ advocacy to their bishops, regardless of your position. Church leaders have also made it clear that legally protecting the identity of a child molester is more important than protecting the abused child. That confuses me more than accepting a transgender/lgbtq member.
I understand exactly where you are coming from. I’m struggling with the same things. I hope that those of us who still think and feel this way can support each other in staying faithful to what we know is true. For me that means staying in the church and keeping my covenants in the best way I know how. I think it is very possible to be gravely concerned with what is happening and also staying loyal and faithful to the church. I think it’s not only possible, but necessary. I think at some point the Savior will clear out the money changers from the temple (or church office building) and I want to still be here when that happens. I don’t think he’ll allow the church to fully apostatize before His coming.
In the future, which of the two actions below do you think will be more likely to lead to disciplinary action by leadership?
1) Publishing opinions stating that the Church leaders are erring in caving on “gay marriage” and the “LGBTQIA++” agenda.
2) Publishing opinions stating that the Church leaders are erring in not doing enough to respect all things “LGBTQIA++”
Today it seems like someone saying #2 would be likely to get promoted at BYU and elsewhere in the Church.
It's unbelievable how quickly the culture has shifted since Nelson took the reigns.
Unless there is mass pushback, I fear that Nelson will be remembered by historians as the Church leader who destroyed the institution.
One can look to the Church of England to see the future - we very likely will become a shrinking religious institution.
I can't imagine there is much numerical growth at present. And given the feminist emphasis I imagine that the birth rate has decreased substantially as well.
Bishop Ostler: "He's obviously a woman..."
I don't know about you, but as a biological man, I've never had someone tell me that "I'm obviously a man"
That's just a straight up lie. He's so clearly a man, and everyone knows it. But we're supposed to pretend otherwise for the sake of being "kind" to him. It's not kind to lie to people.
Some years ago, such words would have been spoken as a silly joke, causing everyone to burst into laughter. These times are over now. 😭
That line from Ostler was such a joke. When the Trans woman started speaking his voice was a mockery of a woman's voice. It was unnatural.
As, fucking, if
This is tragic! The Scriptures are VERY CLEAR regarding sexuality, and homosexual behavior is ABSOLUTELY unacceptable and COMPLETELY forbidden !
There should be NO confusion regarding this issue .
People who support homosexual behavior and the abuse of their physical bodies by "sex-
Changing" hormones and surgeries will answer to God for their behavior. That is NOT going to be pretty.
If your chromosomes are XX , you are FEMALE. If they are XY or XXY. you are MALE, NOW AND FOREVER!
Local leadership needs to be careful to avoid creating a two tier system of obedience requirements to commandments. Actively celebrating, affirming, or allying with those breaking commandments specifically because they are breaking those commandments is a head scratcher to me.
Well, there is three levels of obedience in the gospel. Celestial which the brethren want us to achieve. Next the terrestrial who believe in Christ and live to be like him. And telestial who live a worldly life. When we strive for the highest we achieve better results. Yet the gospel is inclusive of all levels of redemption. We need to make them choice of where we want to be and live it.
@@ChristopherWood-n7q Good point!!
Literally… WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON???
😂😂😂😂😂
What I would tell this youth is that this is a perfect example of holding to the rod while feeling like we are in the midst of darkness. Not holding onto someone else’s hand “trusting” that they are holding onto the rod. And many people will mock you but trust the rod in your hand and don’t be ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
You certainly hit the nail on the head! I have been a member of this Church for almost 70 years and have always sustained our leaders. I was taught that the persecution of the Saints in my day, would not be physical but would Be a persecution of our beliefs. I never really understood this until now. Even members of my own family are questioning the lack of clarity from our leaders. I believe the day is soon coming when the faithful members of the Church will be but a handful as confusion and doubt take hold. We are told that even the very elite of the Church will be deceived and fall away. I love and sustain and support our dear Prophet and believe all he has taught us. It is up to me, now, to seek the Holy Ghost and do what I am impressed to do through the Holy Spirit. The world is spiraling downward at an ever increasing speed......we really need to tighten our grip on the iron rod and focus on what is right and true and turn a deaf ear and a blind eye to the foolishness of men. I love your podcasts Jacob, and am so thankful for young people like yourself, who stand firm in the faith and the teachings of Christ. May God bless you and your family is my fervent prayer!
Hold fast to the rod, don't "cling" to it. Read Nephi 8 again, specifically watching for the difference between the two.❤
The only reasons it's not physical is because elders don't show up to take a hard stand.
@@crazyaboutcardswhat do you think is the difference between "hold fast" and "cling" ?
I’m not active in the church. I’m a lifelong member but no longer believe in the exclusive truth claims.
However, I’m with you totally on this Jacob Hansen. Biological men are always men and biological females are always female. ‘Male and female created he them!’
I agree with President Nelson Gender remains fixed, pre-mortally, mortally and post-mortally.
I am bemused by Richard Ostler. If nothing else, this just confirms that the church is slowly losing it.
Yes I’m confused.
“And my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they who lead thee cause thee to err and destroy the way of thy paths.”
- 2 Nephi 13:12
Great video Jacob, we must have the guiding influence of the Holy Ghost to get through the days ahead, the collective witness model you’ve shared is a good foundation, brothers and sisters, I love you all, hold to the rod, stand firm in what you know to be true 🙏🏼
How many of the married brethren joke in EQ about their wives making the decisions? It's gotten completely out of control and out of sorts. The ordinances have been changed, God's law has been muted and our leadership have been blinded by the world's influence. The gospel is what we need right now and to follow His commandments as close as we can getting back to the source before all this began.
I'm really confused and I'm one of the church leader that Jacob says we should ask about this. Who am I supposed to ask? I have youth that struggle with these messages of the world and now mixed messaging from the church isn't going to make that any easier. What about when my own children come to me and ask. How and what am I to teach them? Does that Family Proclamation posted in my home really mean anything in light of what is happening? What about the Law of Chastity and the serious temple covenant made by faithful saints about this law. The CES letter, Book of Abraham, Seer Stones, troubling statements from Brigham young, polygamy, and all the other stuff the anti mormon/ex mormons bring up doesn't bother me at all but this inconsistency and the confusion it creates bothers me greatly. What do I tell the youth? What do I tell my own children? At this point I can only point to what Apostles and Prophets have said on the subject including our current first presidency. But, if the mixed and confusing messaging continues in the church, at what point will they stop listening to what I say or think that their parents and leaders are just wrong? They may start to think: "If they are wrong on this, why should we listen to them on anything else?" This is dangerous territory and I hope our Prophet and Apostles provide some clarity soon. My calling is hard enough, this kind of confusion and mixed messaging makes it nearly impossible.
Spot on! I teach gospel doctrine, this inconsistency in messaging makes my calling harder. It also makes my kids question what I say vs. what they see.
So when my grandmother who drank coffee her whole life and struggled to give it up, in her 70s that was a good enough reason to deny baptism. But now we allow this?
A total smack in the face to anyone who has struggled with the little things like coffee and been denied baptism. In the hierarchy of sins, I think we all know which sins are more egregious than coffee consumption. The question is why church leaders don't see the hypocrisy of this absurdity?
I'm an exmo and non-believer, but I empathize with Jacob's position here. If, like him, you believe the LDS Church to carry the spark of divine truth and therefore that it should be held to a higher standard, it must be very discouraging to see it reacting to the changing cultural zeitgeist just like any other business-centric man-made institution. When the Church behaves like a corporate entity that appears more concerned with ESG compliance than with promoting clarity and consistency in their Gospel message, it is hard not to conclude that, well, maybe it really is just another corporate entity with a product to sell.
I don't agree with Kwaku on a lot of things, but it does appear that the Church is laying down a runway to help facilitate a significant modification to current doctrine and policy - much like how it has been done in other large corporate entities like Disney, Warner Brothers, Apple, etc.
(I'm a former director-level executive from the Walt Disney Company. We got our first forced bites of the DEI sandwich way back in 2014 or so when they required all managers to take "Inclusivity Training" and started forcing us to interview unqualified candidates for open positions because they were trying to adjust their employment demographics. You can see how that's worked out for Disney in the dozen or so years hence.)
Well stated. Saw this in government 20 years ago when I was first employed. Hideous reprocussions now hitting the military. All should be warned that in order to fulfill needs , the drafting of women is nigh😢
How can anyone not agree with Kwaku on a lot of things?😂
PS. Couldn't help but notice your last name. My mom is a Leavitt.☺️
I’m probably going to follow you in leaving. Just not really sure what to do next.
Alma 47:36 Dissenters will always be our biggest problem. Don’t lose faith. Sometimes the wheat and tares have to grow together but judgement is coming and the “inner vessel will be cleansed.”
Well said
@thoughtfulfaith This video is NEEDED! Excellent job. So many members are sick of the church leadership turning a blind eye to this extreme Liberal theology. Theology that has infested the church and its culture.
Hopefully all can realize the truth of mormonism in people like you! Keep up the bigotry and exclusion! It must be so hard to exist in this diverse huge world. Stay in the temple and church to avoid any individual thought and any love for humanity. ❤
I don't always agree with your videos, but this was amazing. Your message was sincere, honest, soul-searching, and real. In 30 minutes you encapsulated what so many members have faced or are facing: how to balance what we've always been taught, with what appear to be changing core doctrines.
Thanks for your thoughtful video, and for having the guts to post it. I sincerely, sincerely hope that this doesn't land you in church discipline as it has so many others.
God bless us all as we try to find the rod and cling to it.
Once you reach a certain popularity then you are essentially untouchable.
Part of the problem is that the church keeps changing in response to open criticism/activism. It’s about time that members on this side of things start speaking up!
Wait... Who has been disciplined for speaking this way??? I don't agree with Jacob, but I'm horrified to hear that someone could face church discipline for saying these types of things... Or sharing quotes from President Oakes
@@meganwilliams4588 Sustain was perverted to me "uplift" or "support". However it they are going the wrong direction then I will not sustain them but oppose them.
@@MichaelWalmsleyJr You'd be surprised and I have been surprised. I myself was called into my leader's office for sharing scriptures from the Book of Mormon that raised questions to me about polygamy. I can only imagine that Jacob is getting "loving" messages from his leaders to take down or tone down his questions as we speak.
This "other" side of the church leadership - the censorship side - is almost as insidious as the "wishy-washy" side that won't take a firm stand on the issues Jacob is analyzing.
"I will give you a key that will never rust. If you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray." - Joseph Smith
First of all, I don’t believe Joseph ever sad this. Especially because he said if the church were to ever be put in the hands of BY he would lead it straight to hell.
This quote you point out goes contrary to the vision of the tree of life in the Book of Mormon. We are to hold to the iron rod. Which is the word of God found in the scriptures. And Christ is The Word. The man in a white robe actually did lead Lehi astray into a dark and dreary waste. It wasn’t until he prayed to God that he was led out of it.
@@BadA_patriot
"he said if the church were to ever be put in the hands of BY he would lead it straight to hell"
Source on this?
@@BadA_patriot He did say it and it's been quoted by prophets since. The only ones claiming he didn't are that growing apostate sect within the Church who want to believe they can be true to the Restoration while believing the current Church is in apostasy. In reality, they are simply building tabernacles to dead prophets while stoning the living ones, as mankind has done through history. The priesthood line of authority, with it's keys, has been consistent from Joseph, to Brigham, down through to today.
Do you have the original source for this quote?
I’ve used it before and got the same pushback … looking into it, I can’t find a credible source of JS actually saying that, as far as I can go it was a boy heard it from JS then wrote it down decades later, so I’m hoping you found something more concrete
@@jamesh8519 The source of that particular quote is member William Goforth Nelson, who lived from 1831-1922. Because he quoted it later in life, those who want to disbelieve the Church has gone astray discount it as untrustworthy. Basically, they don't WANT to believe it. But here's their problem. Others heard the Prophet make similar statements:
"Joseph the Prophet...said, "Brethren, remember the majority of this people will never go astray: and as long as you keep with the majority you are sure to enter the Celestial Kingdom." - Orson Hyde
""I heard the Prophet Joseph say that he would give the Saints a key whereby they would never be led away or deceived, and that was: The Lord would never suffer a majority of this people to be led away or deceived by imposters, nor would He allow the records of His Church to fall into the hands of the enemy." - Ezra T. Clark
This is shocking , confusing, and totally disgusting! Thank you for shining a light on these outrageous and insane goings on within the LDS church! Please! Keep up the wonderful work!
Calm down lady
The doctrine of the "natural man being an enemy to God" has been tossed aside by many in the name of being nice. The thinking is that if one's inner desires and appetites are strong enough, then the "honorable thing" to do is to embrace them. It's a completely egocentric view of the world, the opposite of what the Savior taught regarding losing oneself in the service of God. What a bizarre world we live in that we identify ourselves primarily by our sexual proclivities and divide into "communities" based on preferences of sexual expression. Fortunately, when I hear the cuts of President Nelson stating eternal truths with clarity I am comforted and know that truth will prevail. And we do strive to love everyone as the Savior counseled, but love does not mean approval.
Best comment
“Leaders also counsel against social transitioning. A social transition includes changing dress or grooming, or changing a name or pronouns, to present oneself as other than his or her biological sex at birth. Leaders advise that those who socially transition will experience some Church membership restrictions for the duration of this transition.”
So that is direct contradiction (amongst others) to what this Bishop is saying.
Well, let me tell you, in my ward there is a young lady that thinks she's a boy and they let her go to the temple and do baptisms. She does them as a female, but still! When I took issue with this and went to the bishop, among other things, he said that he talked to the stake president, and it rests with him as the bishop to make that decision. Basically, he told me to mind my own business he had the final say. At least I spoke up to the bishop about it and feel better that I did. It still is wrong in my mind to let her go. She's changed her dress, hair style, and name. And she told the whole ward about her being a boy during a talk she was giving in Sacrament meeting. We have several young people in our ward who identify as something other than the sex they were born as. It's disturbing.
I even read to him what it says in the handbook.
@@teresalane1004 A Bishop is a judge in Israel and has the responsibility to deal with such things. His failure or success to uphold God’s standards and guide members on the covenant path is all recorded in the Books of Life.
All in all it’s a shame to hear that.
I can only hope that the Truth reaches them.
You did your part though.
I think the subject is such a sticky thing.
@igoldenknight2169 Yes, he is, and I'm okay with that. I didn't mention that the bishop said that as a youth, she got a pass because of the lack of maturity (that's not exactly how he said), eluding she might grow out of it. And I said, and if she doesn't when she turns 18, you're going to tell her she can't go to the temple anymore? That doesn't seem fair, I said. He kind of shrugged and said that wouldn't be up to him but the bishop at that time. I'm just waiting and watching and working at keeping my testimony of God's plan for us and Christ's roll as our Savior and Redeemer.
@teresalane1004, read your comment again to yourself, and think about it. Really think about it. I think your bishop had the right idea when he told you to mind your own business. People like you are why other people leave the church.
HELP PLEASE. I met recently with my bishop, I was confused about the two returned missionaries that moved to our ward and got married like almost two years ago, they partake of the sacrament, etc, the stake has knowledge of this and my bishop says, is case by case, meaning to me that one married same sx couple'case can be different than other, he left me more confused.
What???? How can this be case by case? Church discipline is certainly administered case by case by that is a blatant violation of the law of chastity. There is no gray space there. The Savior explicitly commanded the Nephites that they were not to allow anyone unworthy to take the sacrament. I don't know how any bishop or stake president could knowlingly allow that.
There's also a limit to what he probably can do. A bishop isn't going to cause a scene in the middle of sacrament to prevent people from taking the sacrament. If he'd counseled people that they should not take it and they choose to do so anyway I'd say they do it to their own condemnation. But to meet with him and just have him say it's case by case blows my mind.
WHAT?!!! You stick to the truth regardless of what you're seeing! You have to hold on to your own testimony in spite of this abhorrent situation in your ward. Goodness.
Makes NO sense
Doesn't have the ring of truth
I am a bishop. The church needs to stand for righteousness and quit cuddling. I have 10 children what am I supposed to tell them? That God is inconsistent, that the "proclamation to the world the family", it's no longer valid or it needs to be amended to comport with the standards of the world? This is insanity!!!
I agree.
I agree with you 100%
I have five- so concerned for them!!
Your a faith crisis waiting to happen. Good luck, Bishop.
@jessea2871 I'm 63 no faith crisis just concerned for my children and grandchildren. It is their testimony I am worried about not mine. I joined the church when I was 17, I have a firm testimony of the restoration. Thanks for your sincere concern
Being in AZ when I heard about this I was close to being done with the church. I’m trying hard to start attending church and being more faithful but it’s hard when the church itself doesn’t seem to stay faithful to the doctrine.
Please stay. ❤️ The church is going to need you so much in these next few years!!
Exactly. Honor YOUR covenants
The churches always changes doctrine.
Ironic that you're in AZ and this bothers you more than the church covering up child sex abuse and fighting against the victims in court.
@@christopherrandallnicholson the irony is that you think you know my feelings on that at all.
This echos everything I’ve been saying, thinking and feeling. I know many family and friends in the same boat!! The mixed messages are hurting my heart and very troubling 😭😭.
I could type for days on this. I've been dealing with the LGBTQ+ issue for almost 20 years because I have a gay son who came out at 17. I love my son so very much. I would never do to him what others have told me they would do to their son/daughter had they done the same thing. My son was actually he was very afraid to tell us because his friends had him convinced we would disown him. That's simply not who we are; yet I think the importance of loving the sinner and not the sin has gone to love the sinner and accept the sin.
We also have some very dear friends with a transgender son (now daughter) who are the kind of parents thinking the church will eventually change its stance on LGBTQ+ marriage in the temple. I have a real hard time understanding this from a membership perspective; let alone the perspective of the entire church. I have felt for a very long time now that it will be the LGBTQ+ issues that will separate the wheat from the tares in a significant way. We know that a major apostasy within the church will occur before the Lord returns.
I'm honestly dealing with a lot of heartaches for many reasons, and this enlarging dilemma makes my heart and spirit ache due to what I see as accepted wickedness. As one who tries to be a critical thinker, you could take this "confusion" as to the proper approach to proclaimed doctrine much further. If an individual felt like his neighbor's wife was supposed to be his wife and started hooking up, then it can be blamed on whatever excuse they can come up with that pacifies wickedness and sin. This Moral relativism could explode into who knows what. My mission president warned about this at our last mission reunion many years ago. He was an Emeritus GA at the time and at one point was Elder Holland's Bishop. He was/is probably the holiest man I ever knew. I so wish I could talk to him now and share this video with him to get his feedback. I have others to send it to. I'm sure their responses will be interesting.
Thanks for posting this video though. This is and will continue to be a massive problem in the Church. It needs to be talked about, for sure.
I have a gay son too. You'll lose your relationship with him if you remain in the church. You'll have to choose because the church is hostile towards gay people. Jacob is a good example of cruel, thoughtless loyalty to the church at the expense of people who just want freedom to choose
I haven’t heard about an apostasy IN the church. What does that mean?
@@GingerNinja84 the leaders have never agreed with each other. There are still racists and conspiracy theorists in church leadership. They seem united, but their paychecks depend on a good public perception
I too have family that has same gender attraction that I love so much. ❤ Like you, I believe we can love the sinner and not the sin. My love and support could never save anyone not really. Only Christ can save, and even he cannot save us in our sins. There is a way through these mist of darkness its through them holding tight to the iron rod. Thank you so much for your post. My heart aches too. Xx
Do you have a Scriptural source for an Apostasy happening in our church before the second coming?
Hard to imagine how priesthood leaders could be so "kind" and supportive of a lifestyle that blocked them from spiritual progression (can't go to the temple). It also puts the women off relief society in a really tough spot, tacitly implying they should all accept a man as a woman. And what if it were the other way around, and a woman identifies as a man. Is she welcomed in priesthood? Can she be ordained? Pass and bless the sacrament? Hold priesthood callings? Give priesthood blessings? And marry a woman with support from the church?
Yep. If I’m in relief society and a man who thinks he’s a woman walks in, and the women around me expect me to be cool with it, oh no, I will not be.
For now, presenting as a man while not being an XY male, is not sufficient to be ordained to the priesthood. Could that ever change? It is extremely unlikely to ever be official but in some places, weird things can creep in; the closer you get to Zion the more likely it is.
@@thomasmaughan4798 agreed. I just wonder how hard it will be to deny priesthood ordination if a girl's official church record says male.
@@aperson_1852 At some level of deception yes, a girl presenting as a man, and succeeding in doing so, and somehow has a church record identifying her as male, and manages to convince the bishop and congregation that she is male, and is worthy, will indeed be ordained to the priesthood BUT whether it is *effective* is less certain; it falls in the "amen to the priesthood of that man"
Priesthood isn't really a *power* like magic that YOU or I have and it always works because *I* have it. It is more likely a type of bond by which the angels that DO have actual power, recognize your *authority* to perform blessings and so on; and in Heaven, document the fact of a properly conducted blessing or baptism, and whatever actual power may be needed, provided by the power of the Holy Ghost but not by ME. I'm just the HANDS. If my hands are unworthy, then priesthood is not effective, even though I am ordained.
This is really difficult to navigate. I guess I am still a hard liner when it comes to sex and family. I can welcome a transgender to my ward but I could never, ever, ever, acknowledge the sex change. I'm sorry but the LGBT lifestyle is completely in opposition to the Plan of Salvation. "Lauren" in this video is a man. Yet, the bishop my akes the statement early in the interview that "you are definitely a woman". No, he's not and we better quit pretending that he is anything else. A dear friend of mine was excommunicated because of adultery and yet we want to welcome these people with open arms. I don't get it. President Kimball never would have allowed this into the church. Why are we allowing it now?
I have felt for some time that I am being required to choose between the Gospel and the leaders of the church, and it breaks my heart.
Hmm… You mean the 12?
34 … I saw the multitudes of the earth, that they were gathered together to fight against the apostles of the Lamb; for thus were the twelve called by the angel of the Lord.
35 … Behold the world and the wisdom thereof; yea, behold the house of Israel hath gathered together to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb…
Don’t end up in that mob
Same feelings here.
@@_inveterate That was the New Testament 12 Apostles....
I am often criticized by and get pushback from people in my ward and other members online for speaking out against LGBT advocacy in church. Other members get angry at me and accuse me of being hateful, closed-minded, or overzealous if I do not subscribe to the idea that the only quality we ought to have as members is to be "nice." They call me contentious and then point out that the Lord condemns contention.
More and more, I cannot have conversations with members where we will agree on doctrine OR practice in the church. I feel very much alone.
As a gay dude, I affirm you in that “LGBT Advocacy” is not the same thing as loving gay individuals in general. We’re not all part of the rainbow activism.
@@alexlindstrom555 I'm curious to know your thoughts as to how you (being gay) reconcile your current situation/lifestyle with the doctrines and principles of eternal celestial marriage, family, and chastity. (Chastity is relevant regardless of orientation).
Between yourself and the Gospel, where do you find harmony and compatibility? Where do you find incompatibility and discord?
@@christianthompson9734 I currently believe I’ll have the chance to be married in this life of the next. I keep my covenants and have never been with anyone sexually. I know some people are adamant that I don’t use “gay” unless I’m acting on it that way. I’ve come across members of other faiths who are gay/SSA and who believe the things we do about marriage and chastity. I try to channel my feelings into taking care of myself and also forging friendships. There’s not commandment against me loving men (and women). It’s this world that has conflated “love” with “sex.” So I don’t know my own future. I just think I have a perspective that defends the gospel.
I find the same thing in my ward and even have to tread lightly in my own home for fear that my daughters will stop talking to me due to my stance on what I feel is not only right, but the gospel taught by the Savior. Both of them are enrolled in BYU, either on campus or through the pathways program. And both are return missionaries. I completely agree that there needs to be clarification from the 1st and the 12 immediately. We need to be that shining light on the hill and stop worrying about offending someone. We as a body need to allow what comes from standing for truth and right. And have faith that our Heavenly Father will have our backs when the time comes.
You are not alone. Listen to Elder Holland’s 2014 talk, “The Cost and Blessings of Discipleship.” Hold to what you know. I was told I was “too” black and white. Look, there is truth and there is error. There is right and wrong. There is no “gray” in these. Those who believe so are just plain wrong! Hold tight!
Excellent video. The "chest feeding" part broke my heart for that innocent baby. It made me so sick inside. It was so grotesque to me. I am grateful for Heavenly Father, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, the scriptures, and when apostles do preach strongly on the family proclamation and that it is not ours to change. It is the Lord's doctrine and He is the same yesterday, today and forever. That is a sure foundation. We should not be tossed about with the winds of change of society. I don't understand why stronger stances have not been taken more consistency and why there are so many double messages with different appointments of people that don't embrace the doctrine, and what is allowed at BYU and different church houses and weak, worldly bishops, etc. I try to focus on what I know with all my heart. I know Satan is the master of confusion. This confusion does not belong in the church. We need to stand firmly with God and his precious Word and not fear man or the world. You can't choose both. The worst words I can imagine hearing would be for Christ to say "I never knew you," which I believe means you never knew me. He is the Word. I love and embrace the Word. I reject this world. I believe these truths are woven into my being and if it offends others, then I can't care about that because they have already rejected me to my core being.
Me too. That poor innocent baby 😢
People can talk themselves into anything!!! The scriptures refer to a division in the Church ... we are here💔
I was baptized at 33 more than 40 years ago and I'm more confused by the messages we get from leadership...more confused now.
It’s only a matter of time. I’m in the process of preparing my family to leave. People keep asking what do we replace the church with. My answer is that we have to build it.
Please stay. We need the church even with flaws.
Just went to the funeral of a friend that left the church. He took up alcohol and it took his life. I’ve felt the same many times, only to pray and God to tell me I’m in the right place. Stay the course. I’ve since started to try to make sense of it and what I’ve found is the math supports this church. I could share dozens of stats but we active members will and do suffer far less than the rest of the world. Suffering that is avoided by generations of children outside the church.
We benefit from the highest marriage rate, the lowest divorce rate, the lowest drug and alcohol abuse, the lowest violent crime the longest average mortality rate. Etc etc etc.
There is one single factor that will and does determine the amount of suffering we have in life and that of our posterity and that is the frequency we pass through those doors at church. Preparing to leave this church is preparing for generations of suffering. The stuff we have to wade through to be members is nothing compared to what those outside the wall have to endure now and into the future.
Plz do some research before you pull the trigger on this decision. My brother said it best. At first it feels like having the freedom to eat a dozen Krispy Kreme donuts everyday. It won’t be until years later and maybe even a generation before you will see the results. Doubt your doubts! Give it another week! Talk to someone with faith and if you don’t have anyone you can always email me and I’ll listen and may have some experiences that might help give you some strength to keep moving forward. My email is: scottchilds@gmail.com
If you figure it out, please let me know.
rhe Church is still true. why would it be restored just to fall so soon after? i think of it like, the Church is in its adolescence and is going through a period of rebellion. with the help of the members, it may well mature out of this. but the members have to stay and stand their ground, or the Church will collapse altogether. consider this, when Christ came to America and established His Church, it flourished for about two centuries, then declined. Joseph Smith restored the Church two centuries ago, and now it is declining. so, we know what will happen if we let history repeat itself now, we know what we will become, we have been warned. so don't abandon the Church, stay and help save it, please! we still can.
maybe some of us who are thinking this can find contact with each other and organize a group of some sort to try and reach the leadership..
Follow Jesus Christ. Read the Bible, which is the Word of God, every day. We become confused because men who claim to be prophets are not following the perfect and sinless Christ, the one and only Holy God, the all powerful Creator of heaven and earth. If these men are not following (and they certainly are not) the Christ, the Savior, the Creator; then to follow them will destroy our souls. When those false prophets stand before Christ he is going to tell them "I never knew you, depart from me ye workers of iniquity"
They will not be capable of confusing The Christ for a moment.
Read the Bible and follow Christ. Follow Only Christ.
I just had the same conversation this video has said just yesterday with my husband. We are being trained in our temples on how to escort a trans gender member who comes dressed as the opposite sex comes to do a session. What? Wait? 🤔 how can this be? If someone were to be smoking as they walked into the temple then scan a recommend and want to do a session we would most definitely be calling someone from the office to come talk to them. Yet if a man dressed as a woman comes and scans their recommend we are to call staff to walk them to the gender appropriate dressing room make sure they dress in the appropriate ceremonial clothing and if they do they are allowed in the session. How can this be??
In the last days it says the church will be persecuted. Are we being accepting to the world to avoid this persecution at the expense of the doctrine of Jesus Christ. How can we not stand for the doctrine and have faith that the Lord will protect us?
I join you in that confusion and would 100% support the in standing and being vocal in support of the doctrine of the church!!
I feel disgusted that that is the instruction to temple workers. I don’t get it. Yikes yikes yikes.
What?!? What temple? That is insane.
Is this a Utah temple?
Was this your personal experience?
This is a temple here in Utah. I am a current temple worker and yes this was in our training 2 weeks ago.
I have thought a lot lately about the wheat and the tares. I believe this is an example of that at its most extreme. I also think about something I heard about Heavenly Father not stepping in to stop someone from committing a sin so that they might be judged righteously. I also remember the 70’s when activism was at a high and the heat the church took for excommunicating apostates. The brethren might be allowing this to go further so that when they glean out the tares there is no question about the activist state of apostasy. I hope it is something along these lines and not that the brethren are struggling with making the correct decision.
“The Lord is letting the wheat and the tares mature before he fully purges the Church. He is also testing you to see if you will be misled. The devil is trying to deceive the very elect.”
- Ezra Taft Benson
Why is Babylon being accepted in the church? It's an abomination period.
@@joselito811 By their fruits ye shall know them.
This thought of fruit has been on my mind for several weeks now, even before we got to 1 Nephi 8 in the current CFM. While there are confusing things going on in the Church and world right now, the Church itself, the doctrine, the Gospel of Christ, is still the only doctrine recognized. That doctrine is THE ONLY doctrine on Earth that I know of that yields the fruit on the Tree of Life. Regardless of what members are doing, or leaders are allowing, etc, the fruit of the Gospel of Jesus Christ has not changed. So long as that remains true, I will hold out faithful to the harvest. We were warned "in a coming day" that without the gift of the Spirit one could not survive spiritually.
@@gomcse Ironic he'd say that as he presided over a Church propagating the devil's deceit in extending the Priesthood to Blacks. We have a lot of brethren caught up in the tares and events like these are going to force the faithful to re-evaluate past decisions and make a hard decision between God and apostacy.
I joined the church on 1999 and looking back the church organization is nothing what it was, for the last 3 or 4 years I been struggling with my faith because of many topics and how the church leaders are not stepping out to be 100% clear specially LGTBQ talks, bishops and stake presidents going all out to support LGBTQ and I start questioning about if revelation is really working or is God choosing those men to lead us??
Great video.
The confusion is real. Sadly, it is being experienced in every faith and religion. Stay strong folks!
Yes and no. Many liberal churches embrace the rainbow 100%. The confusion in the LDS Church is the mixed messages. This is what Jacob points out in this video. Statements by Nelson and Oaks affirming biological gender are contradicted by the Sherinian hire as well as many examples concerning lgbtq members.
But it feels like a living church with a prophet should be able to rise above that confusion.
No actually that's not true.
I personally know of very conservative churches that are not as confused as this. It is something that is going to totally cause a division in the church.
Yup!
I was an active member of the LGBTQ+ community lifestyle.
The cut-off from the temple is very telling and consistent with the eternal family and gender doctrine of the Church, the rest sounds like mercy from the Lord.
Homosexual sexual sins are sinful, like straight sexual acts outside of marriage, I know it. I tried every way I could to reconcile God with a homosexual lifestyle and only found emptiness and misery. If leaders want to be kind, I understand that.
The Proclamation is true.
You're not the one that's confused. They are.
Everything the church does is for legal /financial reasons. This woman was LEGALLY identified as a woman by the Govt. Me thinks Kirton McKonkie is just protecting their aSSets. It is ILLEGAL to discriminate in any way based upon someone's race or GENDER. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act prohibits an employer from treating you differently, or less favorably, because of your sex, which is defined to include pregnancy, sexual orientation, and gender identity.
You know, 10 years ago I would have argued against you. Now, I think you may be right.
@@velocirapture89 the so-called church has amassed hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars. They are not taking any chances losing their tax-exempt status. At this point they could lose every single DesNat member and it wouldn't affect the bottom line at all.
Anti discrimination law would not apply to the religious functioning of the Church. In that sense, the First Amendment protects us. If it did, homosexuals would already be suing us to gain access to temple marriage.
On time, on target. Thank you Jacob. Has the day come where faithful church members can no longer have one foot in the world and one foot in the gospel? The world's divergent path is moving away at such a rapid pace that members are struggling to transfer their weight to one foot or the other. Decisive Church leadership focusing on consistency between words and actions would greatly inspire the righteous way forward.
That’s a really good way to say it!
Also, thank you for the full link to President Oaks's talk. You took the words right out of my mouth for this whole video. Thank you!
The world is a mass of confusion and darkness. If the church and those holding the priesthood keys refuse to provide clarity and guidance, or worse yet, add to the confusion, how should members process that? Further, why does this seem like a case of do as I say, not as I do?
I love the Restored Church for being undiluted and undefiled.
A Church that understands the Apostasy.
And here we are.
I converted ...and three years later I see the church becoming like the mainline, fallen Evangelicals, embracing LGBT rebellion.
Such a shame.
I am so sorry that the leaders of our church have failed to defend the faith. I miss the pure vessel of truth I grew up with.
I see an inevitable faith crisis on the horizon.
This should be enough to cause anyone to resign for th sake of Jesus and find a good Bible believing church to attend.
The LDS church has been the expert on marriage since 1830.
The new and Everlasting Covenant of plural marriage changed and most of the members heads exploded in 1890
The Church culture seems to have become more feminized in recent years. The messages are vaguer and mushier. Just take a look at Church material from a few decades ago, and it’s clear to see how much bolder things were then. How do we get that boldness back?
You are encountering the same challenge to remain faithful to God's moral law and commandments that people in other churches have been for some time. It seems that there is an attempted "long march" of an ideology through all churches. Loyalty to God is required by the faithful in spite of the falling away from God by some or many of the leadership.
We need to remember that we have been warned by the prophet that there will be things in the coming days that test our faith and if we do not have a strong testimony and personal revelation then we will not survive the last days spiritually. Many people have assumed that these test or challenges are all from outside the church influences that we need to be prepared for. Obviously there are those within the ranks that could also test our faith and convictions and dedication to the church and our testimonies.
These same types of things happened in the early days of the church with the failing of the church sponsored bank, members of the 12 turning against the prophet, etc. It happened to the Jaredites. It happened to the Nephites. It will happen in our day.
There are mixed messages, but those mixed messages are not coming from the prophet nor the Spirit of Christ. They are coming from BYU educators, bishops, stake presidents, auxiliary leaders, influencers, and so forth. We must be careful about who we listen to and follow. Remember Lehi saw a "man" in a white robe who said follow me. It doesn't say he was an angel. Lehi followed him and after many hours he finally stopped following him and prayed for God's guidance. At that moment he saw the tree. Just because someone appears to be in an important position does not mean we should be following them or giving heed to what the say or do. This is a time of separating the wheat from the tares. Spend your time listening to the prophet and reading the scriptures and going to the temple. This is a time that over half the church (10 virgins) may find themselves without oil. Don't be one of the 5 foolish ones.
Perhaps there is a reason for the mixed messages....to see if we are wheat or tares, wise or foolish, good ground/soil or stony, sheep or goats, etc. Something to ponder.
Great apostasy occurred when the Savior was on the earth, when Joseph restored the church, and I don't believe we should be surprised that before the Lord comes we see the worst of it!
The disconnect is somewhere between the the prophets and apostles, and all these administrative and local leaders.
The brethren are clear on this topic anytime they speak on it. But then you see what’s happening at your local or intermediate levels… and you wonder how our practice seems so far away from what’s taught at the general conference pulpit.
Exactly! And this is so weird to me!
That is what I believe too. Way back in 1996 at a Regional Leadership training meeting one of the RS leaders said Pres. Hinckley's greatest source of discouragement was that the church membership as a whole was so slow to act or move in following the brethren. I've never forgotten that and now see too many of the rank and file members of the church, as well as local leadership, going their own way (the way of the world) rather than following the Savior, and His apostles, the Prophet being the chief apostle. The Brethren, and other general leaders are quite clear about moral issues, but too many don't tune in or study their words because they (the words) conflict with what the member has been indoctrinated with by the world.
This is a form of gaslighting. The Board of Directors at BYU are the Brethren. Also, Deseret Book
Sounds like the Federal government sometimes.
@@micmacc2014False, Deseret Book is owned by Deseret Management Corporation. It has it's own management and board. The Brethren do not sit on the board of directors. DMC owns Deseret Book, and it has it's own management. From what I gather, and I've been digging into this a bit, the Brethren are somewhat disconnected from what DMC does since it's mandate is to "keep to owner principles" meaning they need to loosely keep to Church standards, though that definition could be interpreted loosely. Same with the Comms guy that got hired, that was DMC management, not the "Church." A similar structure is how BYU is, though the Brethren have a bit more influence there. Keep in mind parent companies and subsidiaries must maintain certain levels of independence so as to maintain legal and financial protects. I have a feeling the Brethren are mad as all get out but are somewhat limited in what actions they can take at this time.
I have an update from one of the local leaders I contacted about this. He said that a trend in the last few years is that decisions about these issues are increasingly being left to individual stake presidents. Many of you were probably aware that this was the case, so maybe it’s not news. My interpretation is that SLC is wanting to get themselves off the hook here and pass the buck to stake presidents. Top leadership can pay lip service to the issue, while avoiding responsibility for enforcing rules.
It’s akin to a federal level politician *saying* he supports this or that issue but is leaving it to the states. It’s like a candidate saying, “I’m for marriage but the Supreme Court ruled so, darn, therefore it just is what it is.” Or when a politician says, “I’m for marriage and overturning the Supreme Court decision, of course, but do I support a nation wide definition and law? Oh no, I think I’d leave it to the states.” But the difference here is that top leaders *COULD* step in and clean house if they wanted to. It’s a convenient cop-out, in my opinion.
It seems top leadership doesn’t have the will anymore to enforce uniform standards. Or maybe more people in leadership are nudging for more pro-“LGBTQ+” changes than once thought. And what happens when/if a vast majority of stake presidents favor promotion of “LGBTQ+” relationships and other such things? So much for confronting an issue with civilizational importance. “Out of SLC’s hands and left to individual stake presidents.” And how much longer until The Family Proclamation is deemed as being not in conflict with “LGBTQ+” advocacy? It seems we’ve already arrived at that point. It’s apparently not necessary that The Family Proclamation be rescinded for the Church to officially proceed with “LGBTQ+” advocacy.
But who knows what will happen? It’s still possible to turn things around. I would encourage everyone to contact their leaders and make their feelings known. One of the worst things you can do is stay silent. Know that you can contact leaders anonymously if you wish to.
It does not need to be confusing. The church makes it confusing.
I really don't know what to make of all this. I wish I could speak to President Oaks or President Nelson or Elder Bednar personally one on one to understand all of this and see what they are seeing. I just don't know what causes the Brethren to seem to stay their hand or to seemingly condone certain things with their actions. It just doesn't make sense even on a practical level. The church pulled out of scouting and quite literally leveled the BSA Great Salt Lake Council building where scouting was once done, and all to avoid stuff like this. It's like throwing the baby out and retaining the bath water.
The only explanation is that they are out of touch with God. There is no excuse for their behavior in recent years. I fear for their souls in the afterlife. Hundreds, if not thousands, of young latter-day saints have been lost to the rainbow cult because of their cowardice. Had they taken a stand for God, we would not be in this state of chaos and confusion.
The church promoted the gay culture when they had a chance to get out when they first allowed the kids to be gay. What happened to standing for something?? Hinkley wrote a book with that title, but where is the standing for something? The fact it took them more than a year to leave shows they're support for this evil culture. Why do y'all make void all the scriptures because of one statement from a president of the church? Who by the way was assuming what he said based off of a different matter. And you know what happens when you ass-u-me.
As a devout member of the Church for 55 years who has a firm testimony of the Restoration, I find this troubling. Also, regarding 14:00, none of us are perfect as mortals. We are fallible human beings with natural man tendencies that need to be overcome so that we can become more like Jesus.
This is crazy. I don't understand why the church is caving to this ideology. Wow.
The way the church is going now I fear the next thing they will do is let the blacks have the priesthood even after many prophets have repeatedly said no. /s
Twice I endured much fear and dread for weeks (e.g., of a brick breaking through a window of my house, maybe even into one of my children’s bedrooms at night) to support the Church’s efforts to protect marriage and the family, not to mention going door-to-door and standing on street corners holding signs, all of which took much faith and courage. And now the Church hires a man as the new head of public affairs and media relations who, as a sitting bishop, celebrated the Supreme Court’s decision to force same-sex marriage onto every State. Really?
In light of all this confusion in the Church, how can we still expect its members to take the law of chastity seriously? After all, men are hardwired “by God” to spread their seed far and wide; it’s the most “natural” thing in the world (while denying oneself, especially when such feelings are all but overwhelming, is the most “unnatural” thing in the world - though we call it “peculiar”). If “God given” same-sex attraction justifies homosexual behavior then why doesn’t good “old-fashioned” heterosexual attraction between “cis-gender” people justify their promiscuity?
Fortunately, some modes of sexual expression are still illegal and/or not celebrated, in spite of some individuals’ longings. But for how much longer?
All this does not mean I am not compassionate on this subject. My heart breaks for people with same-sex attraction, and other people, who will never experience sexual pleasure and fulfilment in mortality because they are obeying the Lord’s law, in addition to missing out on other common blessings of being married to an opposite-sex partner.
Yup, what he said.
I know on reddit. It has been said, "we are just waiting on those that signed the family Proclamation to pass away for that to change."
yup we're just counting down the days
I remember back then when my Dad was a bishop. We had a trans who was a convert and the day of his baptism he came dressed as a women. My Dad told him to dressed back as a male because he will be listed down as a male, but he refuses. So my dad just called off the baptism. But gladly he agreed the following week that he’ll baptise and listed as a male in the church.
He should have been blacklisted. He's almost certainly pushing this agenda in the Church now.
We certainly need more light and knowledge on this.
Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.
We don't need more info on this.
One of the best videos I’ve seen…excellent coverage of a very important situation…thanks for your thoughtful and courageous willingness to discuss these matters.
It is a God-send that someone is finally willing to speak openly and honestly about these inconsistencies in a public forum. I have felt alone in my concerns for years.
What will you do when a gay marriage is allowed to take place in the temple?
@@bestill365 don't hold your breath
@@bestill365 Sounds like what my father said about the blacks before 1978. Do you really not see how its the same. Doctrine in the "restored" church as changed multiple times since 1830. Prepare yourself.
I will walk away. Or I’ll probably be gone by then anyway.
@@velocirapture89Weak faith.
You know what is confusing, when you come out with the November exclusion policy and then change it 3 years later.
Especially because Nelson explicitly said it was DOCTRINE.
No kidding.