Consider This Before Buying a Tissot PRX
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- Опубліковано 5 січ 2024
- I think it's time for us to have a talk about the Powermatic 80 movement inside of the Tissot PRX. Specifically the plastic parts...
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The Mido Multifort shares the same movement but without the plastic parts. There’s indeed tiers to the Powermatic 80.
Powermatic 80 with 23 jewels has a plastic escapement, Powermatic 80 with 25 jewels, used by Mido, Hamilton, Rado and mostly Certinas has a traditional metal escapement.
.....hamilton as well. the base eta is not plastic. this is all tissot.
The Powermatic 80 is essentially an upgraded version of the ETA 2842 (NOT the 2824 as often reported). The 2842 was modified by ETA for use in Swatch automatics before they came up with the Sistem51. It features a plastic pallet fork and escape wheel, a 50 hour power reserve and 3 hz beat frequency. The only real difference being the lack of free sprung balance found on the P80, and of course the extra 30 hours. It also has been around since 1991. That’s 33 years of service at this point, and they’ve never had an issue with them. You can find videos of watchmakers on UA-cam stripping apart and servicing these “disposable plastic part” movements. So all this to say, no offense, but I trust ETA’s 160+ year expertise in engineering a watch movement more than I trust a UA-camr’s speculation. All fears around this movement can be quelled by a simple google search into the ethos behind the engineering decisions ETA made when designing it
Basically, Swatch doesn't cost more than $600, it's only around $150, no comparison. Next, this man is not blaming it at all, he is just talking about not like to servicing the watch by having to send it back to the company and have it completely replaced.
@@phphphat5080 that was exactly my point though, you do not have to go through tissot to service it. That is a myth. In fact a two second youtube search will reveal many videos of watchmakers taking apart and rebuilding powermatic 80s. It’s an odd myth that will not die despite the mountains of evidence refuting it. Now as far as the cost of the watch vs the cost of the movement, that’s a whole other debate and one that has no real defined end. If a watch’s MSRP to material cost ratio isn’t worth it to you, don’t buy it, but to invent technical reasons why that watch is inferior that are based on myth, is stupid. Which is what people seem to be doing with Powermatic 80 based watches. The fact is they are solid, reliable movements that can trace their lineage back decades and can be easily and cheaply be repaired or replaced as needed, and will likely never give anyone that owns one any type of issue. So I don’t see what all the fuss is about.
I had a Swatch mechanical with 2842. The said plastic escapement parts were colored blue.
Again you missed his point, that plastic is used in the movement. He didn't say the movement was crap lol. He said it has plastic in it, you cant adjust the movement and servicing is tough with most watch places telling you take it Tissot. SMH. Only hearing what you want to here, then making the comment you trust TISSOT over a youtubers speculation, but here you are spouting info as if what you claim is fact. And how is that any different lol. Just your opinion on UA-cam lol .
@@daleyfamily2179 my issue is with the speculative nature of these criticisms when the reality is the “concerning” plastic parts have been used for over 30 years at this point already. It’s just sensationalist at this point, the purpose and effectiveness of the parts has been thoroughly documented already. There isn’t anything to really be concerned about if you do your research and learn about this movements lineage. He also claimed the movement cannot be serviced outside of Tissot. That is also incorrect and sensationalist. Many watchmakers can and have taken apart powermatic 80 movements. I agree the regulation system is annoying and is a worthy point for critical debate, but that was just one small point made in cushion of sensationalist ones. And I said I trust ETA, the movement manufacturer dating back to the 1850s who’s designs set the industry standard across all price points, to make a half decent movement, yes
I would love to see a video comparing various powermatic movements and a breakdown of which ones have plastic and which are all metal. Is this something you could get into?
I would very much like to see that as well.
I have absolutely no doubt that the Swatch group did their homework & these "composite" are not only fit for purpose but incredibly durable. That said, any movement that isn't capable of being repaired (cost effectiveness aside) just goes against my own personal ethos on the longevity of mechanical watches.
But, how do we know it can't be repaired? It's all just UA-camr driven speculation presented as fact. So, two components made from 'plastic' instead of metal means the whole mechanism is not serviceable?? Doesn't make any sense, other that it makes the irrational link in people's brains that plastic=bad, so must be there to make the movement cheaper, which in turn means the whole movement must be cheaply made, which means it is a throwaway item which can't be serviced. I do, however, accept that the cost of the movement is probably such that it will cost more to service it than replace it, but that's just as equally true of your Japanese affordable movements (the clue is in the description 'affordable' !). That, however, doesn't mean that you HAVE to replace it. If you WANT to spend considerably more money servicing the movement that it would cost to replace a Powermatic 80, or Seiko 4R, or many other movenments, then go for it! The inclusion of two plastic components doesn't rob you of that choice.
@@mrbeacham68 agree. It's a real UA-camr thing that assumes lack of serviceability of the P80 movement. Lots of axes to grind for some reason...
Yes I have no idea where this “can’t be serviced” bit came from and why it has been run with as fact. Tissot themselves accept them for service and quote on their website a very fair price with a fresh warranty afterwards to do so. This movement is not unlike the ETA 2842 used in automatic swatches since 1991, there are plenty of those still around and still running, some even having been serviced by independent watchmakers. So I have full faith in ETA’s ability to put a solid movement together, and the swatch groups ability to repair it should anything go wrong. UA-cam watch influencers have created a number of myths that just won’t seem to die
@@mrbeacham68it’s because Swatch designed the Powermatic that way-you take the whole unit off and replace it with a new one.
It’s JUST the Powermatic series though.
The 2021/2022-released Tissot 1938 Heritage for example is equipped with the ETA 2824-2, not a Powermatic, so you can service that watch no worries. As for the other ones, well, you can’t.
The problem is no one knows, even themselves, how this plastic will really age in say 30 years.
My 4R Seiko movement broke under warranty and was replaced by Seiko, it was a plastic gear that had broken related to the change of dates, plastic parts are common
The big difference is that date wheel adjustment works once a day. That pallet fork and escapement wheel does it's thing 21,600 times an hour.
@ChapeauRouge921 Yeah, but what actually matters is the amount of stress the component is loaded with. Hard plastic is not going to fatigue like metal alloys under extremely low force being applied. So I am more okay with the swatch group's use of hard plastic, as it won't be a problem in their application. Especially as it's not exposed to UV radiation, that's one of the big downfalls of the material. I am curious what record the pr80s will have, but Seikos' use of plastic in a part that gets broken like a cracker under the torque applied by a human hand is poor design.
Creep and fatigue that is more of a concern for metal alloys won't be a concern when the force is far below the materials elasticity module.
I've wondered about getting a PRX a few times, it definitely has some attributes. I really like swapping out different straps on watches though, so integrated bracelets aren't for me.
If I was to get one, after watching this video I would go for the quartz version. It's just less hassle!
I know some people really only want mechanical watches though, I totally understand and respect that.
Interesting and informative video, cheers Kieron 👍
It's still a fantastic watch. And I think that it has a lot to offer.
It's just a good talking point with the serviceability. Always something worth considering
But yeah, I'd probably go for the quartz version too. It just has more longevity
After market straps are available.
@@navboi12 I've just locked them up and there's quite a wide variety. I didn't know you could get them! Thanks for the info 👍
Omega also used a couple of plastic parts in their cal 1861 Speedmaster movement, which were metal in the display back 1863 version. I suspect this is more commonplace than we think
While I dont have any problem with the P80 movement, it is one of the things holding me back from getting the PRX. I already have a P80 Seastar 1000 so my curious itch is already scratched. Also, long power reserves do little for me since I almost never wear the same watch twice in one week. If they offered the PRX in a high beat eta I'd probably already have one rather than holding out for a 12.
For me it's an £500 Swiss made watch that looks incredible can be serviced and should last a lifetime. Plastic parts have featured In many even high end watches.
Those high end watches with plastic parts in them are?
I believe Omega have used plastic parts.@@daleyfamily2179
@@daleyfamily2179 Speedmaster 1861 plastic brake for example.
Some metal movements are basically in the same boat…cheaper to replace than service. NH35 comes to mind, among others. I hear you about only being able to send it to Tissot though. It’s definitely cool that it comes with an 80 hour power reserve. I guess you have to weigh the issues.
I know that a movement swap is the generally done thing when it comes to affordable watch servicing. A Seiko watchmaker confirmed this to me when I spoke to them in person at a watch show. But the NH35 can be serviced by basically any watchmaker. So if you grow attached to that watch and want to keep it long term, the possibility is there
Sounds like we're thinking alike...if I have a watch that is sentimental to me, I want the original movement serviced.
Once again, you don't have to send it to Tissot for service.
Thanks man! I agree with you. And perhaps getting a prx at some point, they are pretty cool and not to expensive, but I will definitely get the Quartz version, cheaper and better in my opinion.
Yeah, my pick would be the 35mm (for a wrist size below 7inch). It's true to the original seastar model from the 70s, and it looks more balanced (imo)
Thank you for making me decide that i dont need that fuss in my life and that i should buy a much simpler watch
I have a Seastar 2000 and it also has a Powermatic 80. I completely understand and agree with what you're saying. However, there is a way around this as a Powermatic 80 can be drop-in replaced by a standard ETA 2824 and that can be done by a local watchmaker (or an experienced collector can do it at home). After that, it can be serviced normally and the beat will be increased to 4Hz. Sure, you won't have the 80 hour reserve anymore but I honestly don't care as I only take it off to shower. So, it's a piece of cake if you want to switch to a more conventional movement like the ETA 2824. Even better, the ETA 2824 is about as common and conventional as watch movements come and you can even grab cheap but well-made clones of them in many places.
It's just something to think about.
Is it really a drop-in? It might be worth considering a $30 Chinese clone then. It's a plain version and the assemblers usually leave hairs and fingerprints inside and excessive oil but since you are going to have it serviced all that could be corrected. From Switzerland these movements appear to be $300 and up.
Is this truly a drop in swap? I just grabbed an ice blue prx80 brand new for $580.
@@RolandKoller90 Do you mean a PRX100 Powermatic 80? To answer your question, no one seems to know.
How about the c07.611 and c07.811. Are their parts easy to be found or bought?
I’d like to know if the metal palet fork and escapement can be bought.
Hello, does the Tissot Everytime Swissmatic model have plastic parts? Thanks in advance for your answer
From what I've read it's even worse than the Powermatic 80.
What i understood from someone who works in the industry a while back is when you put your watch for a service they do replace the movement and it is actually faster than servicing, idk what would be the price though. He also said that your movement isnt thrown, its serviced and put back in another watch. idk really what they do but i do own several certina watches with the powermatic 80 and honestly i dont care abt having the same movement inside as long as it runs well.
but really, at this price do anyone really care???
I can understand it with luxury watches but common these are affordable ones. Not that i think these arent as good, most of my collection is affordable.
The key thing with affordable is that if something happens to it, brakes, stolen or whatever. Its not the end of the world..
On the other hand, swatch group released a pisswatch and blancrap soo...
I own the green dial quartz. It is my most complimented watch by far.
I have the same watch. Same experience - I love it. Quartz is the way to go with the PRX. The sunburst dial is beautiful, it’s not pretending to be something else, like the waffle seems to be. I’ve lost interest my more expensive watches now. As to plastic parts or similar, I don’t think it matters at these price points. ETAs are just as mass produced as Quartz, if something breaks, they just replace the movement. Heck, even Rolex service often does that. I don’t see the downside to having all the parts replaced instead of searching for the broken bit. And silicone, per Rolex, is plastic too.
I am the owner of a tissot seastar 2000, featuring the caliber C07.111 with a plastic pallet fork. I have 2 things to say about this watch, the first being that I don’t want plastic for the 1000$ I spent, but this part can be subjective. The incriminated part is hidden, you have to dig yourself to find the difference. I had 2 services made the first year, all taken by the warranty. First time problem with the crown, second time helicopter effect on the rotor. You know what, the second time my repaired watch was…. a brand new one 😅. Forget it, this watch is not easy to repair and the next time I will go only for the powermatic 80 C07.6XX !
Thanks for sharing your story with the movement, great insight!
I have a 5-year-old seastar 1000 and 3-year-old seastar 2000 with 3-4 secs difference / MONTH. When will the armageddon come for me? 😂
Seems likely a weekly event to have a watch UA-camr going on about the plastic components and presumed non-serviceability of the P80 movement in the PRX. It's not like all of the cheap Sekio 4R movements (and Miyotas) on cheap automatics aren't just getting switched out as well. But I guess, everyone's $400 Seiko Presage is a cherished heirloom whose 4R movement will have every component lovingly serviced and replaced at a cost of 90% of the watch every 5 years or so? Some of those movements need regulation as well. Outside of all of that, I've heard mixed things on the serviceability.....I've heard reports that it is actually serviceable by a watch repairer. No one seems to know for sure until one actually fails, and they seem pretty reliable.
You never actually own a Seiko 5 Sports, you merely look after it for the next generation.
Triggered are you. I like the review of the PRX and your opinion on it on your channel. Oh wait there isn't one LOL And yeah Seiko movements from the 60's and 70's still going strong does speak volumes over plastic parts and metal parts.
@@daleyfamily2179 not triggered at all, just sick of UA-cam carry on. The Seiko fan boys really hate this watch... Lol.
Who knows if a vintage Seiko mechanical will keep going, maybe some do. Just like vintage Tissot. I will say that no company seems to be getting more complaints at the moment about QC then Seiko currently. I'll take a Powermatic 80 any day over a 4R movement.
The PM 80 in my Hamilton has been great so far, so I can’t say I’ve had a negative experience. IMO people getting upset about the movement being un-serviceable is a bit overblown. The majority of watches in this affordable tier will just have new movements swapped in anyway, and that’s something that doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Seiko will probably do the same with my SARB035 when I send that in soon, and that’s all good with me
Hamilton use full metal movements, there are no plastic parts in this movement. It is only Tissot that do.
Not all powermatics are the same. There are three:
C07.1** plastic escapement, used by tissot and some certina watches.
C07.6**, regular escapement, used by hamilton, mido and others. Certina also has watches with this movement but they are more expensive than the model with the plastic escapmet.
C07.8**, movement with silicon heaispring.
You can see the type of movement with an eye loop or a microscope above the balance wheel if the watch has a display caseback
Indeed, I cover this at the end of the video.
Indeed you don't, but would have been helpful if you would have instead of every here in the comments speculating that the sky is falling. Not only that you replied to a poster above with a Gentleman that you "believe" it doesn't when you could have simply answered, it has the C07.811 so it does not have plastic parts.
@@arose7215 No it does not have the most expensive powermatic. The rotor in the back says '' high tech escapement'' and it is plastic. Check this video, it's not a PRX but they have the same movement, the C07-111
ua-cam.com/video/0VKoZ_Bdd7M/v-deo.html
I don’t think many people buy watches with the servicing in mind, otherwise I don’t think the lower end affordable watches would sell at all. It’s certainly made me consider things more carefully - am I will to spend £200 servicing a watch that perhaps has a lower resell value. All interesting points re the PRX.
Yea those lower end watches will just get thrown out at that point. Which is why my perspective on the whole topic has changed to me actually preferring quartz at the lower end of the watch spectrum.
Great video, great insight and opinion my friend. Ignore the idiots calling you an idiot!
Does the prx chrono come with plastic parts as well or are they different ?
Does the quartz version have any problems? Thanks for the information.
You have to replace your battery , and possible acid leaks. I lost a nice Seiko to a battery leak.
@@scottr3141 thanks for the information. Im leaning quartz atm.
If you don't let water in or let dead batteries leak then quartz will last considerably longer than mechanicals without service.
Quartz do have geartrains that needs service but the intervals are much higher (simpler gear train, step motor moving once per second instead of 5/6/8/10 at the same force every time) and usually the movements are so cheap it's a no brainer to replace rather than repair.
What about " swiss military hanowa" watch brand ? Are they any good , haven't seen any UA-cam reviews from USA UK about them . Quite popular in the Balkans
So.. what about the silicium parts? Like in the movement of the Gentleman?
I believe the gentleman has a regular fork and wheel, with a silicium hairspring.
I wonder how often a snap on caseback can be refitted? It's a romantic notion to have a "forever watch" but a swatch group budget watch might not be it.
Thank you for taking on this subject. Back in the 70s, we had consumer advocates on TV, newspapers, etc. that went after companies that weren't living up to their claims. Of course, we don't have those anymore because the media is used to keep the people docile and compliant. That's why you are getting so much pushback, these people don't want to wake up and face the facts that are right in front of them. Keep it up!
I totally agree the viewers do not listen and only hear what they want to hear. I get the same comments on my channel Diving into watches. When challenged by a viewer I always ask what I said wasn't factual and please provide you evidence. Its always crickets. I think some people are just never happy and need to take out their anger on people they don't have to look in the eye and say what they say. We seem to live in a world of media were truth is a lie, and the lie is the fact no matter what is said. Its a sad statement when truth is no longer true.
So does the Tissot Gentleman have the same plastic parts as the PRX?
No, you can see it by the total crystal count. The plastic versions have 2 less -> 23 instead of 25.
What is the shop time for a watch repair person? Maybe $125/hr? A Sellita SW200 movement new is $200. If it has a busted mainspring or corroded gear it just makes sense to replace the whole thing. How much will you pay in shop time to have them dismantle, replace parts, and lubricate it versus just replacing it? My guess is repair would be significantly more to repair. Eta should sell the mivement separately.
I have a few high end watches, from Vacheron, to Rolex, Blancpain, Moser and Breguet but I also love to wear my PRX Glacier blue. It’s such a nice watch, regardless of the price. And the movement is wonderful, quite accurate, great power reserve. It’s a phantastic everyday watch that just works great on the wrist. And since I wouldn’t regulate my watch myself (been there done that) or service the watch with an independent watch maker (I stick to the brands service centers) - it’s all dandy for me.
I myself own the certina action diver with the c07. 611 movement I believe loses around 30 s a week one finds that superb at this price level. The servicing one is with you have no intention of fiddling why would one £150every four years why gripe. I do like the look of one's collection I myself have a weakness for the smiths everest of which by the last count one owns over a dozen just cannot help myself. My son has taken a fancy to them and normally wears one of them whilst playing a concert. the certina is one's daily wear one is more than happy with it robust enough to stand upto daily life never misses a beat wonderful.
That's fair enough. This video and talking point in general does not really apply to higher end collectors
@@TopTierTicker one was not making criticism of the video my comment was actually in answer to koolpeps comment.
It's a partiicis a particular plastic, it is not the classic vulgar plastic. Puolyoxymethylene (POM) also known as acetal resin or polyformaldehyde is a crystalline thermoplastic polymer. It is used where excellent dimensional stability, low friction and high resistance are required. The repeating chains are composed of a methylene group and an oxygen atom. The material is very resistant with a relatively low cost. It has a very low friction coefficient and excellent thermal resistance.
We need to keep it real. This watch costs as much as a good leather strap from a premium brand, or a steel buckle from Patek, or a steel Bracelet from Tudor or 8 links of a Rolex oyster steel bracelet. So for an excellent designed and super wearable Swiss watch this is still a steal.
Lots of quartz watches have platic, nylon based parts. It is NOT A PROBLEM!
i have a tissot more than 25 years old, has plastic parts and its fine!
It's fair to say I am no Swiss watch expert. I have bought them as gifts but I wear Japanese - Chinese - micro brand watches. But I must say Tissot have sold the shit out of watches with these movements. And at the end of the day that's what it's all about. Also with a gazillion of them out there (my daughter has one) why don't I hear more people complaining about them stopping? Again - not a Swiss watch expert. The only reason I don't own a PRX is I tend not to wear anything that's really popular.
Because its a really good, reliable movement that is well regulated out of the factory. If their a problems, movements get switched out, just like they do with the cheap 4R Seiko movements. It's only UA-camrs and the net that has an axe to grind with the P80 movement.
I appreciate you, you said what other youtubers don't know or are being silenced
Thanks for the video. I share your concern as along time collector as it seems to make these movements disposable. If this is the case, maybe best to just buy the PRX quartz and save a couple of hundred bucks.
How is it disposable? Get it serviced by an independent watchmaker every 5 years.
The removal of the adjustment lever in favour for a freesprung balance is what high end brands like rolex do. These powermatic movements are recycled for what parts can be used.
removal of adjustment lever will also increase shock resistance
I own a PRX and another Tissot with the P80 movement. I have never had a lick of trouble with either. One is COSC certified and both run plus 2 to 3 seconds a day. Now lets talk about the plastic parts. I would never claim plastic is stronger than steel, but many plastics are far better at resisting wear from friction. Years ago I serviced large conveyor belts where the belts were composed of plastic slats. Picture plastic tank treads but not as thick. These belts ran on nylon guide strips over a stainless steel substrate. Occasionally the guides would come off. When this happened the plastic slats would wear through the stainless steel table and if not repaired would eventually cut large gashes in it. The slats themselves showed significantly less wear. Plastic has great resistence to wear in many applications. Of course it is far inferior in other respects but these do not really come into play in a watch movement.
Who buys a watch for £600 hoping to have it 20 years and wearing it every day. A watch going tits up just means you get the fun of having the excuse to buy another. 😂😂 I’ve just this week bought two Tissot PRX 80s for my son and I. I shall enjoy it and when I get bored I’ll get my ex wife to sit on it and that’ll wreck it so I can go get myself an IWC mmmm 😂
😂
Is plastic parts are not available in the market.
Powermatic 80 with 23 jewels has a plastic escapement, Powermatic 80 with 25 jewels, used by Mido, Hamilton, Rado and mostly Certinas has a traditional metal escapement.
Indeed, thanks for adding the specs
So tissot gentleman doesn’t have plastic parts
Several years ago General Motors (I’m an American) started putting Oldsmobile engines in Cadillacs. Cadillac owners were horrified. Turns out the Oldsmobile engines had self lubricating valves and lasted forever. My point is different is not always bad and can be even better. My Tissot with the Powermatic 80 Silicium is year old and loses about about a minute a month. I am 72 years old and my watch will outlive me. My sons and grandsons wear Apple Watches They see me as old fashioned and eccentric. I paid half price for my Powermatic 80.-high luxury with no guilt when I donate to the food bank.
And that’s why I bought the quartz
One of the BEST vids in watchdom. Thank you. This CONSTANT hype about the PowerMatic 80 is total bs. I will swear AT the PowerMatic 80……never BY it. And, goodbye Swatch. Might get a Speedy one day but I will NEVER buy a watch with this horror done to the gorgeous ETA 2824-2. Really needed vid Sir. Thank you for telling the truth.
Another option is to save your pennies a little longer and go for the christopher ward 12. Imo worth the extra.
You came with reciepts in the first 60 seconds, cant doubt or dispute facts.
Are all powermatic 80 movements this way????? I really need to know, because another watch I want right now only comes with that movement. Specifically, I'm curious about the powermatic 80 in the Certina DS-2.
They are not all the same. Research the movement reference and check on forums whether it does
@@TopTierTicker Thanks man! Love the channel. Would the Certina DS-2 be a watch that you might review in the future? Or possibly the Timex Marlin cushion case?
Great video, I think tissot are doing themselves a disservice here, I personally wouldn't touch them once you start going down that road you may as well just go quartz. I have a 1967 tissot seastar which I just had serviced for a reasonable price and to me this is the beauty of this hobby, throwing movements away and putting in a new one leaves a bad taste in my mouth, thanks for the content.
This comment is exactly why I made this video.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. It's very cool that you got an old seastar serviced. I hope you enjoy it my friend 🙏
The Powermatic 80 C07.111 in the PRX has plastic. The C07.611 (Hamilton Khaki Field)and the C07.811 (Tissot Getleman)doesn’t
Might as well get a Sistem51
The c07. 611 one doesn't believe this version used in many watches does not have plastic parts as for the servicing. The servicing yes it is laser set but it's every 4 years and costs £150 I know for fact my local jewellery store watch servicing charges £200 for a full service on auto movements. My action pro loses 30 seconds in over a week who care if I can't fiddle with it I would not want too accuracy is more important to me and my god this certina is accurate.
The factory uses a laser, but it isn't necessary. It's probably just faster.
Greed is the number 1 cause of the Powermatic 80 being so bad when it comes to servicing. This move that Tissot made is like swatch with their system 51. Making movements "disposable" Even Seiko/citizen group. movements that cost 30-100 bucks are super easy to service by EVERY watchmaker compared to a Powermatic 80. Swiss watches are now losing their high reputation while Japanese watches like Grand Seiko are rising.
Bang on sir, bang on.
At least you have only PRX
I have Seastar, which if it fails, it could be lot worse
i honestly dont mind they use plastic parts but when the time comes they need to replace the movement it shouldnt cost an arm and a leg to replace it because its just opening the watch up and swapping it out, even the janitor at Tissot could probably be taught this job, he could do it during his break or so, not charging us 100 euro for the work, 50 euro for the movement and then probably an additional 25 to ship it to tissot.
this is called designed obsolescence... nothing made today is to last long...
You should never need to replace the movement. Where did you get that idea?
Its been said to me that if the dealer sends it back to Tissot this is what they do instead of fixing it.@@robertbrandywine
What about other models with powermatic 80 movement
there's different "grades" of powermatic 80 movements. My gentleman has the silicium hairspring variant without plastic parts for example
Tissot just swaps the entire movement when you send it in for a service. So what does it matter that it has plastic parts? Swatch says the plastic parts can’t be magnetized and don’t need lubrication. Powermatic 80 are very reliable and accurate (way better than the Seiko 6R35).
Thumbs up !
If a Tissot is Powermatic 80 with 23 jewels, it has plastic parts, 25 jewels and it is full metal.
I was about to buy a Tissot Seastar 2000, but it has 23 jewels and for £1090, I am not paying for untested plastic parts. Thats why I'm going for the Hamilton Frogman instead.
Let's face it, many of these big watch companies simply do not want to allocate resources (watchmakers namely) to support/service the sheer amount of watches they sell - hence why we are moving towards watches with disposable movements.
Thanks for letting us know that. Can't imagine someday will be plastic in movement
Tissot has pioneered that since the 70s and they are still running
There's lots of movements with plastic parts. Even Omega Speedmaster 1861 has plastic.
0ne word....... ICON..... three letters SKX,,,,,,,, check it out. 😂😂
We shouldn’t be surprised that Swatch Group cheaps out with plastic unserviceable movements in quite expensive watches - consider the plastic MoonSwab and Swatchpain official homages. I’d venture that the plastic moving parts will wear faster than steel (lubricated or not) especially if the very hard pallet fork jewels (assuming Tissot uses jewels 😉) are rubbing against plastic escape wheel teeth 21,000 times per hour. A $600 PRX could likely cost $400 (what DO they charge?) to get its movement swapped out in Switzerland, or wherever, by Swatch Group. As you say, there’s no way they’re going to disassemble your movement, just swap it.
The whole point is Swatch Group has built in a level of obsolescence and is trying to force you to send the watch to them for ‘servicing’ as your only option. That’s not fresh, not at all fresh.
They charge 190 swiss franks for a full service. Also plastic can perform really well in high friction settings and i haven't really heard of any prx's failing due to the plastic parts. It's not nearly as bad, as you're making it out to be. It's a good movement that might not be serviceable for any old watchmaker, but ist still reliable and seemingly runs for a decently long time.
Once again, any competent watchmaker should be able to service the watch, you don't have to send it back to Tissot.
@@robertbrandywine Take the back off your and try to regulate it. Oh, that’s right, you can’t. Swatch Group has removed the mechanism to adjust the timing and beat error. Speak to your own ‘competent’ watchmaker and see what they say about that. 🤔
Don’t forget, most of the components of this watch are Made In China, yet they print Swiss Made on the dial
Good point. But same with most 'Swiss' watches really
Both of you are spitting facts
I m happy to have the older Tissot LeLocle with the ETA2824-2 movement and not the newer one with the Powermatic 80…. The PRX is too expensive for the movement it has…
Yes! My Tissot automatics III also has a pre-powermatic ETA movement. 28k beat rate, smooth winding... The older movements are fantastic
What are you people talking about????
The PRX is equipped with the very same Powermatic80 ETA.C07.111-the exact same movement found in almost all the Tissot automatic watches: Le Locle, Chemin-something, Seastar 1000, and even Certina’s dress watches (DS Podium) have this same movement. Heck the previous Certina models PH200 and DS Action Diver-these watches that have the red secondhand, are also equipped with this very movement: C07.111.
This movement is NOT exclusive to the PRX.
So it will cost a lot for repair+ shipping 🤔 if you don't have a local Tissot service ....
An independent watchmaker can service.
Those AWFUL PowerMatic 80’s…… I would GLADLY pay a premium for an old school 2824-2 and pass on the “Regulation” scam and the end of great Swiss Watchmaking, imho. I would LOVE a Willard and at least Seiko does not castrate their 4 hertz movements and the 3 hertz are made to be serviced, not sent back to Japan for some assembler swap out components. Great vid! Thanks
Once again, you don't have to send the Powermatic 80 back to Tissot for repair. If you send a Seiko that has a 7s26 or 4r35 movemnt into Seiko I've read that they also just replace the movement. But again, you don't have to do that.
Some of the newer Panerai watches have snap backs. For many thousands of dollars…..
I prefer the old ETA
The quartz version is a way better deal then.
Thinner as well, I'm an "automatic" enthusiast but I made an exception for this PRX. I also found the automatic overpriced back in time.
No way. The ice blue dial on the auto version is stunning. The quartz dial is just a dial.
The quartz is also overpriced considering the low quality of the one used inside.
If I can't regulate the movement myself, then that watch can GTFO.
PRX Powermatic =💩. As I stated in a previous comment, the only PRX I would proudly own is The PRX digital, now that’s quality.
Yeah, I don't mind the quartz version. It's got more longevity. Same with the digital, although I'm not a fan of the look of the digital tbh! Thanks for sharing your opinion
@@TopTierTickeroh. Definitely. I couldn’t believe they made them
You dont know if the plastic parts have a benefit, because you say you're not a watch maker. Nevertheless, you believe you are correct in asserting that the parts are bad. I am confused.
Exactly. Entire video is based on the prejudice that plastic=bad and metal=good, from someone who probably has zero qualifications to make that judgement and therefore assumes in the absence of any technical knowledge whatsoever that it is done for cost saving. As an engineer I bet that the product cost of every single component in any affordable movement is just pennies and its the cost of assembling them that is significant. Therefore the potential for significant cost saving by changing two out of many hundreds of parts is zero.
Plastic components inside of watch movements is quite a new thing. It's near impossible to actually form a judgement on the long term use of them, because we don't have a many cases to analyse. So, I wouldn't try and claim that I know the outcome, when nearly nobody does.
I believe then to be bad for the reasons I give. Which is serviceability and parts availability.
@@TopTierTicker
A new thing ? Take a look at the movement of an old 1861 Speedmaster.
@@giusepperocchi2979 You're referring to the Derlin brake? a part that Omega stopped using very quickly after production.
You misinterpreted my comment... We don't have a plethora of cases that we can study the long term use of when it comes to plastic parts. A single component, of which isn't the same as the ones mentioned in this video, does not suffice.
@@TopTierTicker
They stopped using it just for aesthetical reasons, and the units using it are still perfectly running with no self destrution issues. Actually there's no technical reasons why teflon or similar should last less than steel which, by the way, is equally cheap. If you need more evidence, Seiko uses plastic parts for the date change mechanism since forever, even in quite expensive watches.
It is pretty funny to see you guys keep a straight face while talking about a $600 Tissot like some kind of heirloom watch. I can just imagine the controversy at Christie's in 30 years when an certified original PRX turns out to have had a replacement movement. Or the heartbreak for little Timmy when he discovers that his cherished hand-me-down isn't as pristine grandpa had claimed.
wow, i've recommended this for years! Not so sure now, Ive recommended as a piece punching its weight well above the £600 price point but the plastic parts I just cannot get over, system51 blancpain x swatch springs to mind, yuk.
It's still a great piece, I've recommended it plenty of times, and will continue to do so. It's an awesome watch for a new enthusiast. But for a serious collector who wants something proper, they'll likely look elsewhere
Different movement, plastic crystal vs sapphire on the prx. Plastic case vs stainless on the prx. I bought a swatch petit second before I bought a prx with the powematic 80. I regret the $300 I spent on the swatch but the $1000 I spent on the prx I consider a bargain. The blancpain x swatch looks like a cheap kids toy vs the prx. I don't care if the prx has a plastic part or two when it's been running within a second a day since I got it. For a workhorse Swiss movement that's pretty decent. I'd buy the quartz version of the prx over the blancpain x swatch for less money.
I hate this movement. I am really interested in several watches that have this movement, like: Tissot LeLocle/ Gentleman. But I don't buy them because of the movement
U believe that the gentleman and le locle have different versions of the powermatic 80. Ones that can actually be serviced locally.
I'd recommend finding the model that you like, finding the exact movement reference and reading into it a bit on the watch forums.
@@TopTierTicker interesting, need to figure that out now haha
Based.
I disassembled my tissot powermatic 80 and parts are all metal
Not all powermatic 80 movements are the same. The one inside of the PRX is the one featuring plastic components
Yeah i dont like the idea of the Powermatic 80 movement at all. It goes against the entire point of getting a mechanical watch. Im wearing a Seiko right now that is 50 years old. To me, that is interesting. Not this new approach of theirs.
I like my Invicta. In 10 years I'll throw it away and buy a new one.
Not surprised, it’s a cheap mechanical watch.
These are not heirloom quality pieces.
Nice job on the video.
I don't see an issue. Plastic parts have their anti magnetic functionality. If ever the time comes that it breaks down and it's cheap to replace the movement... How is that a problem?
It's like taking your car to the shop and instead of repairing it, they just drop a new engine in for the same price... I'll take that kind of service. 😂
Car enthusiasts wouldn't enjoy that. And proper watch nuts don't like replacement movements. It's not an issue for you, but to some, it is
@@TopTierTicker Sure, you're right. To each his own.
I would agree that it would be disappointing on a luxury watch that costs upwards of 5k, but on a mass produced entry level Swiss like the PRX it's perfectly fine for me.
The first obvious place to look when doing research for the video would be the Tissot website which categorically states that movements are serviceable. But obviously this nitwit didn’t bother to check the website for the basic information.
has anyone seen what happens to plastic when it gets old? So yea... ..
it'll hold up for a decent amount of time in a watch movement though. And it's easy enough to replace if you care enough to do so as tissot
just sell your watch 1 month before garantuee ending and buy a new one
😂😂😂 That's funny
Plastic ehhhh? Mate!? Would you say a bit of cheating? Why not metal parts
It's a budget auto watch with a £50 movement FFS , not high end horology
irony, even teh expensive movements need service and cost even more... price does not equate quality, just branding these days
I think the point is that many cheaper automatics use movements that can be easily, quickly, and inexpensively serviced by any watchmaker. IMO a disposable movement defeats the purpose of a mechanical watch at all. If you want a disposable fashion watch, there are many cheaper options…and the cheaper the watch the more ridiculous it seems to ship it halfway around the world for 6-8 weeks just so it can be thrown away and replaced with another one.
Damage control.
When you say that you do not know if plastic have or does not have any interference with magnetism... that's also Factual... but i get it, it wasn't you who made the point and does not go well for your opinion that you need to push, not just share clearly, like your own arguments as you needed to clarify...
If I exclusively wanted to push my own argument I wouldn't of even mentioned it. I simply tried to mention this to give a balanced perspective. I obviously know that plastic is better at being anti-magnetic, but what about the balance wheel and the other parts? Basically, are these two parts going to stop the watch from being magnetised, or is it a fart in the wind? that's why I said I don't know, because I don't know.
The escapement and palette fork being magnetised isn't an issue so it wasn't done for this reason. Its the balance spring you dont want to get magnetised. And yes, you said you dont know so fair play. However, what else you dont know is why this material was actually used or in fact pretty much anything else about watch making. As an engineer, i see this uninformed plastic=bad but metal=good prejudice ingrained in the opinions of people who know about 1% of what they need to know to make a proper judgement all the time. It's not just watches, but all manner of engineered objects. Believe it or not, sometimes engineers choose to use plastic for components because its the best performing solution, not because its cheaper (which itself isnt even always true!). I'm no watch maker myself, but I think it's highly probable that they went this route for one of these two reasons, i.e. either because it performs better in some way or because its cheaper. From my professional experience of mass production, I would bet that the most significant cost in producing affordable movements is in assembling the 100's of tiny components. The cost of making each of those components is going to be pennies at most, and in many cases fractions of pennies. Therefore reducing the cost of just two out of the 100s of components (if it even is cheaper to use 'plastic') is going to have zero effect on the overall cost of producing the watch. So, if two plastic components isn't a feasible cost reduction strategy, that must mean, god forbid, that they actually decided to choose this material to make the movement perform better in some way! Yeah, I know, that must really mess with the heads of all you cynics out there. Anyway, cards on the table, I'm no watch maker myself and my engineering design experience is in aerospace not watches, so this is all just more speculation. It is at least, however, informed speculation rather than the same old lazy, ignorant plasic=bad metal=good BS that is endlessly spewed out on the internet.@@TopTierTicker
Unfortunately, you have also taken the road of assuming that I know nothing about movements and the components inside of them.
I'm obsessed with watches, and have been for a number of years now. I have watches countless videos of movement services, read books about them, and even took some online courses.
I appreciate that you have an engineering background, and this can loosely be related to this subject. But, just like me, you don't know. However you've formed quite the strong stance on the matter, using language that is also, as you described in another comment 'sneering' at someone who potentially has less experience than you.
But you have even come to the conclusion that these parts have potentially been used to cut costs. Which is confirmed by the fact that you'll only find these plastic components inside of the cheapest version of the powermatic 80. All of the other, more expensive versions, come with more traditional, more serviceable parts.
I'm no expert, but I've only dabbled with watch movements as of yet.
So although I am no expert, this video is based ib my opinion, which is in backed by my experience. Not just 5 minutes of reading on a watch forum.
No bro, it was the way you presented the entire thing and your arguments... you should not 'teach' your audience.
@@peristicas3119 I said 'maybe' and 'almost' in pretty much every sentence. My word is not final, it's open to discussion.
I wouldn't feel comfortable buying a mechanical watch without a regulator
It has a regulator! Just not the lever type. The big screw you can clearly see on the balance wheel is the regulator. It moves inboard or outboard and changes the polar moment of inertia of the wheel to regulate the watch, as opposed to the lever type which change the spring length. Both are perfectly valid regulation methods, its just that that the lever type is much easier for UA-camr types who fancy themselves as watchmakers but basically know fuck all. Any real, actual watch maker can regulate both types.
This video has really got under your skin ey bud? Again, I said it can be regulated. Just that it's harder to do than with levers 😂😂😂
Also, you've clearly lost your rag here. Which is no way to have a sensible discussion. You tried to take the high road but unfortunately couldn't keep your cool.
The PRX in general, is an absolutely overrated watch without a doubt. Just bought a yellow dial Tsuyosa for a 1/3 of the price of a PRX and it's arguably a better overall watch 🤷🏽♂️
Do not buy a Tissot PRX. Buy Nivada Grenchen F77 ot Christopher Ward 12 if you want good integrated bracelet, Genta inspired watch.
If it's not Quartz, why bother. ( :
All these guys crying about plastic parts, must be the same group that didn't like plastic bumpers on cars the are 10x safer . lol Have to move up with tech. , much less friction , and they must of saw the benefit, less friction, less maintenance, etc.. Funny how all top firearms are now polymer , folks had issues with that too.
C'mon Tissot fanboys, GET HIM!
everything in 2024 has plastic planes, cars, computer tv, etc, etc, do you know why? because you need plastic to make the thinks work better!
If you're not a watch expert, why do make opinions about watch movements at all for potentially millions of people? Other than the revenue from such views. You mention "plastic" which has a connotation of cheap, granted. However not all plastics are created the same. Technically Glock is a plastic gun. Is it cheap? Is it unreliable? Militaries, police forces, and civilian users from around the world would argue your plastic opinion. Perhaps ETA utilizes similar material science in the parts construction. Before you bash the Swiss are there any British watches that encompass both quality and reasonable affordability like a Tissot? Tell me, as an American I'd like to buy one.
Well, if my opinion isn't good enough for you... I'd recommend checking out a channel called 'chronoglide watchmakers' on the matter. He's an experienced watchmaker, and shares a similar opinion on it to me.