I wish there was a visible animation when a parry happens, that would make tanking so much more enjoyable, i often feel the need of visual feedback of what i'm doing but as a tank instead of knowing i'm "tanking" i get the feeling that i'm kinda doing damage because of the skill animations
Great video, but as others already mentioned, you didn't cover frailty, which, if kept up consistently will reduce the damage intake considerably throughout a dungeon run.
Great video! I came back to retail wow recently and I’ve been enjoying the vengeance dh. Your video explanation was right to the point and very easy to understand.
You say that as if you're prideful of it. All tanks are viable. There's always a worst but it's rarely a wide margin. If you've got 3k on a war, you can get 3k on brm and guardian.
@@phugindomas why do you think I used the " ". I know how strong bear tanks are and where they fall behind. But pushing 3k in pugs on a bear is difficult because everyone sees the "meta" and will choose a warrior(or now a paly) to tank in keys. Figured after a video from a person who mailed druid tank for a long time would curve people's thoughts on them. Spoiler, it didnt
Although the guide is quite to the point, I have to disagree on the maths behind Demon Spikes uptime. Disregarding Haste levels, each recharge time is 20 secs for an 8 second effect. For 2 charges you basically have 16 seconds of Demon spike uptime for every 20 second recharge window. Which leaves you with 80% uptime. Accounting for haste that can get up to 100%. Multiple charges mean basically that uses may overlap (not the effect, necessarily), and when one charge is cooling down and you pop the next, the cooldown carries over, it doesn't restart. At moment 0, you use charge No1, 20 sec cd starts. 8-10 seconds later (when the cooldown needs about 12-10 more secs), you pop the 2nd charge for 8 more seconds of uptime. The next time you will have a charge again is at the 20th second which will mean that you had only 4 seconds downtime of DS and this cycle goes on.
Really well explained, thanks. I am playing the right side of the tree build for fiery brand buff to increase damage. I trade demon spikes and fiery brand stacks on pulls. It doesn't have a last resort though.
Very nice vid, since a lot of healers cant really deal with VDH ^^ but you missed the absolute most importamt mitigation: frailty stacks, which give you DR and leech. Also: you shouldnt be really find yourself in a position where you need to kite until you reach like m+25 or 26 or so. Nevertheless, great video. :)
@@Luxumbra69 i'm 100% dure we will be playing frailty in m+ in 10.1. How else would you play it? Oo wanna rely on fiery brand on big pulls? Having 4 or 5 fiery brands in a 15+ mob pull like freehold and nothing else is pretty gg
@@Shagz2149 lol well good luck with that. With the new tier, healing from fire damage done, making shear/frac deal fire, nearly 100% uptime on brand, ect. Frailty will fall by the wayside until 10.2
@@Luxumbra69 FB in ST will be amazing with good uptime. In MT absolutely not. I doesnt spread fast enough. You will ALWAYS play frailty. You will be probably playing the current DIF Build with frailty and down in flames. Or maybe slight changes. But you will definitely not ditch frailty. I can guarantee you that
@@Shagz2149 as someone who's mained VDH for the last 7 content patches I promise you that frailty without soul crush is absolute shit, and we will NOT be able to play soul crush in 10.1
As pug only healer i can say that u NEED to focus on the dh for the first 5-10 sec on a pull. 😅 never saw hp going to 100% to sub 20 so fast (except dk but they are better healer than an actual healer😪). Love watching tank content as an healer great video as always💪
A good DH will be trying to save their Fel Dev near the end of a pull to have it for the next. That combined with demon spikes should be completely fine while they build up frailty and threat.
Probably going to finish up leveling my DH today. It's one of two classes I don't have at Max and one of the last tanks I haven't ran in 15+ to get a feel for.
good video even if I already knew most of this. I feel like you could make an entire video based on Kiting especially for classes with weak active mitigation like Paladin. I also like using Vengeful retreat as I sometimes find myself dead by the time I move my camera, and my cursor for a place to put my infernal strike. "Unlike most tanks the Vengeful Demon Hunter doesn't have a Blanket Damage Reduction Cooldown." What would you classify Metamorphosis as than? "The best time to kite is when you are out of options or as a LAST RESORT" I would be careful about saying Last Resort haha. I would also like to point out there are two popular builds right now, Feed the Demon Build witch has the biggest benefit of having the cdr on demon spikes and dmg reduction after it for more burstt dmg and spreading your dmg down debuff, and how kitting is less useful in the Feed the Demon Build because if you aren't using Fracture or your only abilities to generate souls you aren't generating souls, witch means your losing uptime on spikes, not saying you shouldn't kite with Feed the Demon just something to think about. On another note do you think after getting the 4 peice in season 2 will the damage build become more powerful due to the free Firy Brand or will Feed the Demon just give that much more survivability to consider?
Thanks for taking the time to type this all up! Glad you enjoyed the video. I define a Blanket DR as an ability that directly reduces ALL damage. Shield Wall, Guardian of Ancient Kings, Survival Instincts, Etc. Metamorphosis is slightly different since it interacts with Generation, Health, and Armor. While this is a little more Dynamic, it doesn't necessarily reduce all damage in-take equally. Regarding the new set bonus for season 2, I did a video on it but TLDR it has the potential to do a ton of damage with a Fiery Brand build, but sacrificing things like Last Resort, Feed the Demons, or many of the Soul Bomb traits leaves the DH vulnerable. Until we can get enough Haste from gear, more than like Feed the Demons build will be stronger in Mythic+
Been maining DH since the start of Dragonflight and most times I feel indestructible. The main threats I feel are magic based tank busters since we don't really have blanket dmg reductionn. On high fortified weeks, pulls that have multiple mobs using those frequently (AV Vault Guards, SBG Reanimated Ritual Bones, TJS Minion of Doubt) are scary AF and I usually have to kite kite kite. Honestly I really think they should have kept Blur in the DH class tree. I really don't think it would have been that broken considering everything prot warriors have. While we're at it, buff Soul Barrier by a ton, even at 5 souls the shield feels pitiful.
We do have blanket dmg reduction - fiery brand 40% dmg reduction, use on tank busters. For vaults guards use meta, they won't deal shit to you. SBG skeletons are kited by every tank, not only VDH. Minion of Doubt there is usually 1 - fiery brand. On pack with 2 ask your druid to root one of them or once again - fiery brand on one, CC the other and coordinate with your group. Mark the mob and ask for CCs on it to stop the cast
@@pr3287 Try to that in pug.... Good luck with it if its not with full normal people as should you lucky if you survive tjs last pack, and ofc every run you gonna have a druid....
I missed you mentioning the frailty mitigation. Doesn't it reduce damage taken by 4% per stack? So you kinda can reduce quite a lot if you stack 6-7 stacks before a big hit.
@@objec lol it's not very hard to keep it up on multiple targets. Obviously not 7 stacks but you get them passively by using spirit bomb or soul cleave on every target that got hit. That's why your primary target should be the hardest hitting mob (if there is any) or if there is equally strong pack you should track your stacks and switch targets. Obviously it's all high end gameplay, in your +15-25 keys you just need to blast any mob with soul cleave/spirit bomb and you're good with stacks
@@pr3287 5 stack is 20% dmg decrease is basicly nothing on Forti week. Im fine on Tyra week but forti week is teribble witt last week enrage affix almost impossible to stand still and take every hit with a pug in 22, 23 keys and if i start to kite every mutherf dps crying that they can't cleave.... and if you start kiting ofc the stack will fall so when you go back dmg reduction is nothing. When you tank as warrior you pop Wall and good to go. Prot paladin wog heal as much as a healer, absolutly abnormal (25+ keys without healer....). Every heal cry if they need to heal vdh cause hp bumping up and down like a rollercoster. So i don't think this is good at all. They should add some defense traits so vdh to...., but they buffing the most broken tank that can easily outheal a heal and tank a 25+ keys without healer seems fair.
I watched this video to help me figure out what the heck is going on with trying to heal these guys, its like a DK but with no ability for me to know when i should worry about them
You can overlap demon spikes and when one expires it triggers the calcified spikes. Don’t need to worry about that. So you can press both charges straight away if needed.
@@IDontFacedLol probably meant overlapping the cooldown of each charge. The effect does not stack like iron fur and the duration does not extend beyond 8 secs.
I never expected a clickbaity title that was so wrong, that the video was actually much better for it. Defintely not "by an" idiot, but certainly "for an" idiot. (Me)
I don’t like DH tanks. Not cause of mitigation etc. it’s because they seem to do silly things. Run off from the group. That creates a gap that dps and heals and trying to catch up amd interrupts and stuns are slower getting out and suddenly dps and healer are going splat.
I always wondered how VDH's mitigated damage and TBH, it seems a little boring, the only thing Blizz could think of was spikes growing from the DH? Not very creative IMO
To be fair, he forgot to mention, arguably, the most important part, which is frailty. VDH mitigates/heals a lot by just by going the dmg rotation, which stacks the defensive debuff in the target it is attacking directly and slightly less on the ones nearby. Which is why for single target direct dmg it mitigates/heals a lot but when there are multiple sources of damage it becomes pretty hard.
@@bel17392 frailty basically does everything. Heals back the dh, reduces dmg taken, increases dmg dealt to the target and all these stack and can be applied to multiple targets. The only issue with DH mitigation is that half of its toolkit is applied to the enemy as a debuff and not to the tank as a defensive buff: both Fiery Brand and frailty work on mobs you have hit, while spikes and meta are used regardless of whethere mobs are around.
I wish there was a visible animation when a parry happens, that would make tanking so much more enjoyable, i often feel the need of visual feedback of what i'm doing but as a tank instead of knowing i'm "tanking" i get the feeling that i'm kinda doing damage because of the skill animations
Kind of like how in rpgs like Elden Ring you block and feel it as it pushes you back etc right?
@@gatsuyatsu that's exactly right! That way tanking would feel so much more impactful
There’s a distinctive parry sound at least.
@@endocry never heard it is there a way to raise that effect volume?
Great video, but as others already mentioned, you didn't cover frailty, which, if kept up consistently will reduce the damage intake considerably throughout a dungeon run.
Great video! I came back to retail wow recently and I’ve been enjoying the vengeance dh. Your video explanation was right to the point and very easy to understand.
My biggest complaint is where was this video when i was getting kicked not mitigating /surviving in groups. Really glad i randomly found your channel
Can't wait for one like this for guardian druid. Working on getting 3k rating with the "worst" tank as viewed by Rio and all the tier lists
You say that as if you're prideful of it. All tanks are viable. There's always a worst but it's rarely a wide margin. If you've got 3k on a war, you can get 3k on brm and guardian.
@@phugindomas why do you think I used the " ". I know how strong bear tanks are and where they fall behind. But pushing 3k in pugs on a bear is difficult because everyone sees the "meta" and will choose a warrior(or now a paly) to tank in keys. Figured after a video from a person who mailed druid tank for a long time would curve people's thoughts on them. Spoiler, it didnt
Although the guide is quite to the point, I have to disagree on the maths behind Demon Spikes uptime.
Disregarding Haste levels, each recharge time is 20 secs for an 8 second effect. For 2 charges you basically have 16 seconds of Demon spike uptime for every 20 second recharge window. Which leaves you with 80% uptime. Accounting for haste that can get up to 100%.
Multiple charges mean basically that uses may overlap (not the effect, necessarily), and when one charge is cooling down and you pop the next, the cooldown carries over, it doesn't restart.
At moment 0, you use charge No1, 20 sec cd starts. 8-10 seconds later (when the cooldown needs about 12-10 more secs), you pop the 2nd charge for 8 more seconds of uptime. The next time you will have a charge again is at the 20th second which will mean that you had only 4 seconds downtime of DS and this cycle goes on.
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Awesome video thanks Sha. You have become most eloquent. I love your choice of phrase to describe specifics.
Really well explained, thanks.
I am playing the right side of the tree build for fiery brand buff to increase damage.
I trade demon spikes and fiery brand stacks on pulls. It doesn't have a last resort though.
Very nice vid, since a lot of healers cant really deal with VDH ^^ but you missed the absolute most importamt mitigation: frailty stacks, which give you DR and leech. Also: you shouldnt be really find yourself in a position where you need to kite until you reach like m+25 or 26 or so. Nevertheless, great video. :)
Not quite a useful metric as we won't even be playing frailty in M+ with 10.1 tier.
@@Luxumbra69 i'm 100% dure we will be playing frailty in m+ in 10.1.
How else would you play it? Oo wanna rely on fiery brand on big pulls? Having 4 or 5 fiery brands in a 15+ mob pull like freehold and nothing else is pretty gg
@@Shagz2149 lol well good luck with that. With the new tier, healing from fire damage done, making shear/frac deal fire, nearly 100% uptime on brand, ect. Frailty will fall by the wayside until 10.2
@@Luxumbra69 FB in ST will be amazing with good uptime. In MT absolutely not. I doesnt spread fast enough. You will ALWAYS play frailty. You will be probably playing the current DIF Build with frailty and down in flames. Or maybe slight changes. But you will definitely not ditch frailty. I can guarantee you that
@@Shagz2149 as someone who's mained VDH for the last 7 content patches I promise you that frailty without soul crush is absolute shit, and we will NOT be able to play soul crush in 10.1
As pug only healer i can say that u NEED to focus on the dh for the first 5-10 sec on a pull. 😅 never saw hp going to 100% to sub 20 so fast (except dk but they are better healer than an actual healer😪). Love watching tank content as an healer great video as always💪
A good DH will be trying to save their Fel Dev near the end of a pull to have it for the next. That combined with demon spikes should be completely fine while they build up frailty and threat.
@@romandark9832 maybe all the dh i got wasnt that good either 😅
That's is indeed one of the hardest parts for a VDH. The beginning of the pull is always the scariest part as you enter the packs without frailty.
@@bel17392 and without rage, you can't get fel devastation from the start, unless you chain pull.
I'm a blood dk and I took that personally ;(
Kinda seems like you missed the other half of the video where you explain frailty and soul shatter.....
I tank on all the tanks and im an M+ guy, i have to say i love each video you do even if i know the info there super well done man.
Probably going to finish up leveling my DH today. It's one of two classes I don't have at Max and one of the last tanks I haven't ran in 15+ to get a feel for.
Would love to see a Blood dk video! The one tank I have a hard time with
Decent video and very informative. I don't even play DH but enjoyed it regardless.
good video even if I already knew most of this. I feel like you could make an entire video based on Kiting especially for classes with weak active mitigation like Paladin. I also like using Vengeful retreat as I sometimes find myself dead by the time I move my camera, and my cursor for a place to put my infernal strike.
"Unlike most tanks the Vengeful Demon Hunter doesn't have a Blanket Damage Reduction Cooldown."
What would you classify Metamorphosis as than?
"The best time to kite is when you are out of options or as a LAST RESORT"
I would be careful about saying Last Resort haha.
I would also like to point out there are two popular builds right now, Feed the Demon Build witch has the biggest benefit of having the cdr on demon spikes and dmg reduction after it for more burstt dmg and spreading your dmg down debuff, and how kitting is less useful in the Feed the Demon Build because if you aren't using Fracture or your only abilities to generate souls you aren't generating souls, witch means your losing uptime on spikes, not saying you shouldn't kite with Feed the Demon just something to think about. On another note do you think after getting the 4 peice in season 2 will the damage build become more powerful due to the free Firy Brand or will Feed the Demon just give that much more survivability to consider?
Thanks for taking the time to type this all up! Glad you enjoyed the video.
I define a Blanket DR as an ability that directly reduces ALL damage. Shield Wall, Guardian of Ancient Kings, Survival Instincts, Etc.
Metamorphosis is slightly different since it interacts with Generation, Health, and Armor. While this is a little more Dynamic, it doesn't necessarily reduce all damage in-take equally.
Regarding the new set bonus for season 2, I did a video on it but TLDR it has the potential to do a ton of damage with a Fiery Brand build, but sacrificing things like Last Resort, Feed the Demons, or many of the Soul Bomb traits leaves the DH vulnerable. Until we can get enough Haste from gear, more than like Feed the Demons build will be stronger in Mythic+
Really great breakdown man thanks so much
Been maining DH since the start of Dragonflight and most times I feel indestructible. The main threats I feel are magic based tank busters since we don't really have blanket dmg reductionn. On high fortified weeks, pulls that have multiple mobs using those frequently (AV Vault Guards, SBG Reanimated Ritual Bones, TJS Minion of Doubt) are scary AF and I usually have to kite kite kite. Honestly I really think they should have kept Blur in the DH class tree. I really don't think it would have been that broken considering everything prot warriors have. While we're at it, buff Soul Barrier by a ton, even at 5 souls the shield feels pitiful.
We do have blanket dmg reduction - fiery brand 40% dmg reduction, use on tank busters. For vaults guards use meta, they won't deal shit to you. SBG skeletons are kited by every tank, not only VDH. Minion of Doubt there is usually 1 - fiery brand. On pack with 2 ask your druid to root one of them or once again - fiery brand on one, CC the other and coordinate with your group. Mark the mob and ask for CCs on it to stop the cast
@@pr3287 Try to that in pug.... Good luck with it if its not with full normal people as should you lucky if you survive tjs last pack, and ofc every run you gonna have a druid....
Should be mentioned that the glaive 50% slow on Throw Glaive talent makes it pretty easy to kite 2-3 mobs without screwing melee DPS.
This channel deserves 1mill subs
I missed you mentioning the frailty mitigation. Doesn't it reduce damage taken by 4% per stack? So you kinda can reduce quite a lot if you stack 6-7 stacks before a big hit.
Its very hard to keep up on mutiple target on single target ye you can easily keep 6-7 stacks.
@@objec lol it's not very hard to keep it up on multiple targets. Obviously not 7 stacks but you get them passively by using spirit bomb or soul cleave on every target that got hit. That's why your primary target should be the hardest hitting mob (if there is any) or if there is equally strong pack you should track your stacks and switch targets. Obviously it's all high end gameplay, in your +15-25 keys you just need to blast any mob with soul cleave/spirit bomb and you're good with stacks
@@pr3287 5 stack is 20% dmg decrease is basicly nothing on Forti week. Im fine on Tyra week but forti week is teribble witt last week enrage affix almost impossible to stand still and take every hit with a pug in 22, 23 keys and if i start to kite every mutherf dps crying that they can't cleave.... and if you start kiting ofc the stack will fall so when you go back dmg reduction is nothing. When you tank as warrior you pop Wall and good to go. Prot paladin wog heal as much as a healer, absolutly abnormal (25+ keys without healer....). Every heal cry if they need to heal vdh cause hp bumping up and down like a rollercoster. So i don't think this is good at all. They should add some defense traits so vdh to...., but they buffing the most broken tank that can easily outheal a heal and tank a 25+ keys without healer seems fair.
I watched this video to help me figure out what the heck is going on with trying to heal these guys, its like a DK but with no ability for me to know when i should worry about them
very useful vid! looking forward to more like this
You can overlap demon spikes and when one expires it triggers the calcified spikes. Don’t need to worry about that. So you can press both charges straight away if needed.
Maybe you have an addon? Thats not the way it works
@@IDontFacedLol probably meant overlapping the cooldown of each charge.
The effect does not stack like iron fur and the duration does not extend beyond 8 secs.
@@kostasrh9529 It does extend is my point, you hit it twice it goes to 16 seconds and you never get Calcified Spikes.
u forgot to talk about démon muzzle that reduces a bit the magic dmg taken
I never expected a clickbaity title that was so wrong, that the video was actually much better for it. Defintely not "by an" idiot, but certainly "for an" idiot. (Me)
I don’t like DH tanks. Not cause of mitigation etc. it’s because they seem to do silly things. Run off from the group. That creates a gap that dps and heals and trying to catch up amd interrupts and stuns are slower getting out and suddenly dps and healer are going splat.
I always wondered how VDH's mitigated damage and TBH, it seems a little boring, the only thing Blizz could think of was spikes growing from the DH? Not very creative IMO
To be fair, he forgot to mention, arguably, the most important part, which is frailty. VDH mitigates/heals a lot by just by going the dmg rotation, which stacks the defensive debuff in the target it is attacking directly and slightly less on the ones nearby. Which is why for single target direct dmg it mitigates/heals a lot but when there are multiple sources of damage it becomes pretty hard.
@@bel17392 frailty basically does everything. Heals back the dh, reduces dmg taken, increases dmg dealt to the target and all these stack and can be applied to multiple targets.
The only issue with DH mitigation is that half of its toolkit is applied to the enemy as a debuff and not to the tank as a defensive buff: both Fiery Brand and frailty work on mobs you have hit, while spikes and meta are used regardless of whethere mobs are around.
fuuucking gamer knowledge
Tell us you don’t know vdh without telling us you don’t know vdh
Well, this is an easy sub.
I hate to be that guy, but you’re probably going to get a little flack for Elysian decree and soul monger. Love your content, keep it coming.