Who have the Faceless Men Killed?
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2023
- In Deep Geek - Insight and intelligent discussion on Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, The Witcher and more.
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“Whom.” - Stannis Baratheon.
For me it's felt like all the juice had been squeezed out of ASOIAF theory videos for a long time and we needed Winds before I cared again, but you keep coming up with interesting topics. Good work 🙂
Robert does good work.
I agree completely, great analogy!
Not only that, but the guy has an incredible voice. I would listen to his audiobooks for hours.
We have squeezed our the juice, we are now making new sauces, and experimenting with the skin of the fruit. But this will only last us for another 5 years at best if new books arent released.
@@virtuerseI completely agree
I think it's very possible the woman screaming from the tent was a faceless man, not all the assassinations were made to look like random accidents, some seemed related to a situation at hand.
For example, if having it look like a woman killed him and fled then onlookers might assume it was personal between them but if he died accidentally then they might think assassination was the cause and whomever purchased his death might not want it to look like he was assassinated by faceless men.
You forgot the most tragic of all the assassinations: the death of the GoT TV show.
You might blame natural causes. The low of ratings. The lack of source material. The inability of the show writers David and Dan. The staff at HBO throwing more money to CGI than lighting.
Whatever the assumption, it is all wrong. It was Fox News who paid the Faceless Men to bring down the entire medieval fantasy genre. GoT was just one of many including Legend of the Seeker, Wheel of Time and in the future, Rings of Power.
Since when did GOT have low ratings
I propose that Martin hired the Faceless Men to end GoT.
They are filming season 3 of WOT as we speak😊q
@@davidwells4903 Rafe the Darkfriend killed that series years ago.
Faceless men are assassins but not all assassins are faceless men
mmmmmmmmm read that on google lol
I have alot of Assassin's Creed vibes watching all those faceless men images
Well, that's because some of the images *ARE* Assassin's Creed.
Like the image at 0:39, that's AC 1 and 2.
@@allthatisherelol🤣🤣🤣
Sounds familiar, looks familiar
Only that AC are edgy wannabe assassins 🤡
@@dummbobqqqqq geez have a nice Saturday
I'm glad you're still making videos about the Song. Many have stopped, including Alt Shift X. There's just not much more that can be explored when GRRM still won't write Winds or Dream
He did not stop. Also he is doing livestreams about it.
I love this series, Wonderful work as always, Robert. Thank you! 🙂
I always found it possible that the Faceless Men did in Maegor the Cruel. There are other explanations, certainly. But I think plenty of people wanted him dead badly enough to see it done, not just other Targaryens either. And the death felt like the right level of suspicious.
I'm enjoying this series. I'm not sure what their endgame will be, but i think the spy/information gatherer part of their group will be just as important - if not more so - than the assassination part.
I'd also love a reveal of some side character as a faceless man - there have to be more than just Jaqen running around, but I'm not sure what the best use for that would be
Hot Pie deep undercover waiting for the right people to pass through his inn
The Name of the Wind/Wise Man’s Fear would be an excellent source of material for Robert.
The Faceless allowing Arya to kill those in ger list couldn't be them answering her prayer?
"No more subtle assassins were known to exist".
That alone rules them out for one of the Rogare deaths, there is nothing subtle at all about sinking a whole whip and killing all those on board.
And the Faceless Men have made pains in other places that only the target should be killed, no one else.
Its insane how many details are hidden in Martin books for the faceless men, how they operate, for how many deaths they may had a hand in and how many more individuals Arya met in the house of black and white and in her journeys. Sad we merely got a small part of that, during the tv series. And tbh in the series, it was not even evident that faceless men commonly make kills look like accidents.
I really wonder how much they charge. I feel like it must be an incredible, bankrupting amount due to how rarely they are used for high profile targets.
often than not they wont ask for money in return but they can also ask for the life of your beloved
It’s not necessarily money
I would really love to see one of these exchanges written out, where they buyer is willing to pay any amount money but the price is not what they think
Well the only clue I have, from the book, season 1. One of the richest men in westeros, lord littlefinger who is so good with finances that he is the master of coin for the king. During a small council meeting, the king and council are currently planning a huge tourney to celebrate the new hand.
It is revealed the tourney going to cost a fortune, and that the crown is broke and in debt. They are fretting over word coming that a Targarian is premiers with another future claimant to the thrown. It is asked why not simply hire faceless men to deal with her and littlefinger scoffs as if the idea is insane. He immediately squashes the idea saying cost is out of their reach (while not batting an eye at spending 80,000 in gold for a party
Just wanna say thanks for your vids man. They are one of the few bright spots in my life these days. Your voice and the ASoIaF world are amazing. I feel right when I’m listening to these lord videos. Keep up the good work man and again thanks. Wish he would hurry up with the rest of the books before he or I expire.
Great video!
A great video. Thankyou.
I don't think the Faceless Men killed the Rogares. The Kindly Man gives Arya specific instructions when she performs her first assassination: kill her target, and him ALONE. The pleasure barge sinking is sure to have killed the target, but it also would have caused huge collateral damage. I think it is probable that the brother who choked on bacon could have been a hit, but his brother? Absolutely not. It goes against one of the few restrictions Faceless Men place upon themselves. So there may have been a hit in process or something, but fate got to the other Rogare brother first.
There's no reason to assume sinking the royal barge would have caused other casualties. Lysandro may have been travelling alone apart from the boatmen who could doubtless all swim. A Faceless Man might well have been present to ensure that Lysandro drowned while everyone else swam to safety.
@@Mathemagical55 That is just absurd; wtf kind of rationalization is this?
@@pyropulseIXXI I was thinking the same thing.
@@Mathemagical55how far would they have to swim?
It probably depends on the exact mission or training exercise in Arya's case , i don't think there is a strict / definitive one kill per mission rule with the FM. For the right price i am sure they are willing to do multiple kills and assume collateral damage. More / excess death I am not sure would be something they would be massively against given the FM's central beliefs. Plus the Doom for example , if they were hired to cause that (which very likely seems the case) was a mass casualty , mass collateral damage event. With Arya i think was more about testing her discipline and obedience following orders and instruction(s) in that instance. Also, not looking like foul play at work or that the FM were responsible is pretty much exactly how they operate.
I LOVE IT. Thank you, Robert.
Engagement comment for the algorithm 😁 Thank you for the video. It was fun.
Great vid as always IDG. The FM kill count is quite high , the Doom the most numerous and emphatic by seemingly a very long way. But between those who come to the House of B&W wanting death and all their hired missions / assassinations ; many of which so skillfully done not usually obviously detectable the FM were responsible or any foul play at all for that matter. The FM have quite the kill count as a result. And due to the exorbitant cost to hire them their assassinations are often quite influential. As we've seen in the main series with the likes of Balon & others and even certain prior acts attributed to them like the Doom etc. We get our closest glimpses of the FM in action mostly from Arya's pov and by her own hand with likely much more to come in that respect. Will be interesting to see which influential killings will be the FM's work in the remaining ASoIaF books or at least our best guesses if they were or not.
Also, with these many hired assassinations (with more to come) i think its a point of confusion that some conflate what the FM are hired to do vs their own plans or being more keen or complicit beyond simply being hired. Very much not the case imo and think their own overarching plans / M.O. are vastly different than what they are hired to do.
the Doom cause isn't confirmed
@@a.a677 not confirmed but heavily implied the FM were involved / likely hired to do so. Most prevalent Doom theories include the FM involvement. More dispute about exactly who hired them. But yes not 100% confirmed cause , involvement etc ; which may or may not ever be totally clarified.
I just love your videos Robert! Thank you for posting.
This was a great series on my favourite religion in asoiaf thank you
Great series of videos drawing out one of the strands of GofT. Not sure how much of it is going to match the final draft but it’s going to be fun finding out.
love your videos. where do you get your still pictures. The artwork is fantastic
I've finished a Game of Thrones and am about to finish reading a clash of Kings, so it's so great seeing you upload these types of videos.
Enjoy storm of swords, incredible high point of the series
I had assumed the Ironborn was killed by his successor.
That's the show. I'm assuming that the narrator is drawing only on the books. And he reads more closely than I do (or did). If the new book ever comes out, I'll need to re-read.
I see all your got videos. and forever will! ❤
I Appreciate your channel 👍 Thank you for continuing to post ASOIAF content. Some people like myself never really became interested until the GOT series ended, so your channel has become essential for me to understand the universe and get updated. GREAT WORK
Stunning.
It is plausible that Raff the Sweetling’s assassination was actually an assignment and not Arya going rogue.
If somebody wanted to ruffle some feathers with Cersei’s hand visit to Braavos and the Iron Bank, one guard disappearing with a (disturbingly) young girl and a lot of blood found later in her room would certainly cause it.
Needless to say, if Arya’s assignment was to mud the waters with such a ruse, she would have jumped with glee at the opportunity to scratch one name of her list, but the chapter is not conclusive that she did it all only on her own volition. She may have been following orders and have the good luck to find the most suitable victim in the Westerosi entourage.
Or Arya did do it out of her own volition without foreknowledge, but the House of Black & White knew the circumstances and set it up to happen. It's putting a wild animal in an a tense situation: it's going to bite.
@@dirrdevil mayyyyybe...? I think it would be unnecessarily complicated and against their own rules. Faceless men are supposed to not take jobs relating people they know (hence why everybody insist they know their names, to make sure they won’t come after them later!). If the FM knew about her personal animosity towards him, wouldn’t they assign the job to literally any other FM?
Besides, would the FM know that one random guard in the Hand’s enourage and Arya have crossed paths before and she harbors such hatred for him? They know much but are not omniscient. If they just staged the encounter in the hopes she would snap at the precise time and in the precise way they wanted it to happen, why not simply make the assignment and the way it should happen clear?
It's not about who they killed - it is all about who they might have killed.
That's how they can get their prices.
“ I deamt of a man without a face , waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung” shit gave me the chills , the faceless men are a scary lot
Little tangent, but _why_ wouldn't Euron do the deed himself? He certainly doesn't appear to have any heart or conscience left, so it probably isn't that.
How he paid doesn't seem to be much of an issue; the FM always struck me as being less concerned about the fee, than they are about the fee actually being a sacrifice for the one paying it. If we were talking US currency, they'd probably take $100 from somebody who's struggling to make ends meet, but not settle for less than 3/4 of a billionare's total net worth and future worth.
Unrelated question, but, Robert, would you ever cover the Dune saga?
I would love that! I'm new to the Dune Series, but would love some in-depth looks into the world.
What the f@#%'s a Lomy...? 😂 Great video as always Robert
dam i really miss those years of watching GOT and it being the talk of the town. Wish I could go back to 2011 and experience the entire journey again.
The only acceptable answer is : no one.
this was a cool series.
I think they killed Maegor as well.
10:58 Whoa that just made sense! I bet he did pay the Faceless men with a dragon egg, that's why he said he threw it into the sea; because he had his brother thrown off the bridge for it
Imagine if Arya's final test is killing a resurrected Jon snow, since resurrection is blasphemy to the God of many faces.💀
She would fail with flying colours ..
Honestly, if those books end without arya and jon embracing at least once, i'll go see george!!!
(Maybe they both live out their lives inside their direwolves and restart a pack...)
What if she has to deal with Lady Stoneheart though? I think that might be even more interesting.
Dear in Deep Geek. You probably don't know, but thanks to you my daughter sleeps. Since she was 3 years of age (she's now 5) you're voice is the only thing that will calm her at night and send her to sleep. She calls them Gandalf stories but she loves your videos. She even says at the start of the video "Hello everyone im Robert and welcome to in deep geek."
And she even asked me about the blue wizards the other day. So yeah, thank you, for sending my kid to sleep and for all the knowledge you have given us both. 🤟
To be fair, drinking from the waters of Blackpool could kill you
@indeepgeek your mention to have addressed the letter written from dorne to Aegon in another video. Can you please mention which video?
Can you make a video on edrick storm i think hes got a big part to play in the ASOIF
What about Prince Baelor in the Hedge Knight? I've wondered if his helm was deliberately set up to kill him. There are also some reasons in the story he might have been got out of the way. The mention of Pate always hit me.
Interesting 🤔
I think it’s unlikely the helm would have been deliberately set up to kill him. Remember, it wasn’t his own helm, as he had not planned to fight. So nobody would have been planning to sabotage his armor. He was inspired by Dunk’s cause, and so he borrowed his sons armor to fight. Part of the issue was likely that the armor was just not truly fit to him
@@mattmorales4320 All the Knights own their own arms and armor, horses, in GoT lore, as at tournaments they ransom it as collateral, losers in bouts have to buy it back from winners.
@@Z0mb3hHunt3r But prince baelor was using his sons armor. A faceless man killing him is interesting, i think its more likely someone messing with maekars mind.
@@renanlima4083 Maekar's mind was protecting him from trauma. That's what i mean, Why would they tamper with His son's helm? Only Baelor and his squire(s) would know if he brought armor, too little time to plot. It was tight fitting armor with Maekar's Mace?/Morning star? that killed Baelor, the helm fit so tight it kept him alive/intact for a short time. Maekar was in shock/disbelief which is a real common reaction to abnormal becoming reality, like accidents, etc. He even is quoted to have consciously attacked Baelor, circumstance was just he thought it wasn't fatal, as he held firm till Dunk awoke and removed his protective gear that held him together. Remember that GRRM likes inserting reality.
If an assassin did what we expected they wouldn’t be much of an assassin
Seems like the Faceless men and the Iron bank are one in the same. Almost like different departments of the same company. They are to secretive to have clients without a go between. Also the fact that the Iron bank doesn’t seem to worry about collecting debts
I've come to the same conclusion, and don't see it brought up often enough. When I do see it discussed it's usually dismissed by many. There is gobs of evidence. More than I can post in a youtube comment.
Dude I love your terrifying voice , its like watching cold case files for asoiaf
Hmm - I never saw a video 20 sec after upload :O
What about Maegor?
Bit sloppy for faceless men standarts..
On the other hand some ppl did blame the throne, so maybe still fine ..
Why can't I read comments that go beyond four lines of text anymore?
It could be that The Faceless Men will end up just being the sword of the Iron Bank. Might be that they just use the religion as a front. But who knows?
2:43 the Faceless Men would play out the actions of the person they have become. The woman running out and screaming could have been one, playing the role out in full.
Where is the vid about the letter to Aegon that made peace with Dorne? :o
Shout out to Assassin's Creed.
They need to make a "Song of Ice and Fire" game that plays like Mortal Kombat 😂
Just imagine playing as Jaime vs Ned, or Rheagar vs Robbert B, or even John Snow vs Robb Stark?
Who wouldn't want to see Joffrey get beat down? Arya vs Brienne? Theon vs Ramsey or Sir Barristan vs Grey Worm, or Euron vs Daario Naharis?
The possibilities are endless!
I guess you don't buy the Hardhome as trial run for Valyria theory.
"Whom"!
Responsible for the doom of Valyria it’s self? Interesting theory. Very interesting indeed
Surprised there wasn't even a mention of Maegor the Cruel, even if only to say you disagree.
If Euron really did pay using a dragon egg, is it possible that, since the return of the dragons, they are trying to collect the dragon eggs to prevent the dragons full return?
the most tragic thing here is the use of ai art
I'd like to see what their opinion of Euron???
“Histories may not listen to mushroom but what does a fool have to hide”
It wouldn't be good tradecraft for Jacen to infiltrate the Iron Islands wearing The Alchemist's face and then go to Old Town. Indeed, he would have journeyed from the Riverlands to Pyke, and then Old Town. Sure, his movements are unlikely to be tracked, but his character would be more paranoid than that, and he took a risk changing in front of Arya.
No one said he can't have changed back again for his trip to the iron islands..
And yeah, it was a risk to change in front of Arya, but he wanted to recruit her, so a bit of bragging was helpful..
I wonder if Lyanna or Rhaegar were secretly killed by faceless men. Probably not, but anyone could be.
I doubt it. Robert was going to face Rhaegar in battle sooner or later anyway, so why would someone pay an exorbitant price to assassinate him? (Apart from that Robert killed him in the Battle of the Trident, not some assassin.)
And who would have an interest in killing Lyanna?
Wasn't the doom more of a natural disaster, I thought the explanations inclined to a huge tectonic event that resulted in earthquakes and volcanic eruptions 😅
We work in the dark to serve the light -faceless men probably
Are you using Assassin Creed screen grabs in this vid bro?
I am sure this theory is already out there somewhere; does the example of Pate mean that the FM have likely killed many other people who were not targets but helped them get close to a target? What other killings do you think that could that have meant?
Difficult to say, since those ppl would not been registered as dead...
I mean, they continue their lives as the person, then probably leave in unsuspicious ways..
Plus, those would probably usually be "small folk" people..servants, novices, slaves, whores...people who no one will miss if they leave..
In the histories and lore animations that were extras on the blu-rays, Euron admits to purposefully losing to Stannis during the Greyjoy Rebellion. I believe those videos are show canon, and include book canon, but is everything in them book canon? And does that tie into this thing with Euron killing his brother?
That's def not canon....Euron wasn't in charge of any battles. He planned one attack and that was it. Victarion is the brother that lost the battle to Stannis....
This is why I don’t understand why (on the show) the Waif would have tried to kill Arya by stabbing her in the gut in the street and chasing her thru the street… 😂 it was just way too ridiculous. Also how do they change their height? Their hand color? How was Arya as tall as Walder Frey lol she’s like two feet tall.
I know the answer to most of these, the show didn’t know what to do once they got past the books but still man, people got paid to write that for HBO.
Shame. Shame. 🛎️
Height and girth: magic!
I guess faceless magic is a mix of bloodmagic and glamour!
As for the chase scene: i guess it has to with mediums.
In a book, the paranoia of suspecting everyone can be thrilling, but on the tv, that would be boring as f...
So they thought of something more "action heavy" without considering how it fits into the lore..
That happens quite a lot in tv adaptations..
Luthor tyrell is said to die in a horse accident, but why or who would beneffit? Idk, it just seems suspicious
Lady Olenna. She got rid of the clod, and got to run the House.
@@michaelbayer5094he was an oaf anyway, I suspect she was helping run it since being married to him.
In the show specifically…. Euron did definitely kill Balon personally right? Or am I dumb
Lol... Euron. Sounds like Urine. This whole series feels like such a knock-off LOTR/fantasy world.
@@majorpwner241 you should go read lotr again then :) I don’t think this is for you
I like the use of assassins creed posters :P "Nothing is true. Everything is permitted :P"
You're talking of the show because in the books, Jon's lineage is still a mystery
The Faceless Men are a Deus Ex Machina. They are there whenever Martin needs them
The entire story is there when he needs it to be there. Also, that isn't what a deus ex machina is
@@pyropulseIXXI yes it is. He can use the faceless men at anytime to kill anyone
@@jimboslice6367 That isn't what a deus ex machina is. A deus ex machina literally comes out of nowhere to 'save the day.' There is no prior establishment
The faceless men are an in-universe established 'cult' that can change faces and specializes in assassination and infiltration. He also has rules for how they work, such as paying a high price, relative to the 'client,' in order for a job to be taken on. Balon was assassinated, and it cost Euron a 'dragon egg'.'
That is in no way a 'deus ex machina.'
Your definition fits for literally anything to be a dues ex machina, because an author can make anything happen since they are the ones writing the story
Do you think the alchemist that killed Pate the pig boy was a faceless man? I'm not sure if they would kill someone merely as a means to an ends.
They killed people as means to an end when recruiting Arya.
And Jaqen, while working for the lannisters probably killed people to keep his cover..
So, i guess it is quite possible.
Also if you look at the faces they have in their posession don't all seem to be targets or suicide victims (who would kill a beggar girl, and if she were to have died due to the pool, why would her last memory be fear?)
Can you do The Hobbit from Bilbo's perspective?
That's the book...
Hmmm. If 'they' had hired the Faceless Men to kill the Danny and her brother, then GoT would have been a very different world ...
Why dey destroy Valyria?
Faceless men do kind of remind me of assassin’s creed
I D G !!!!!
They killed Maegor
👍🏾👌🏾
I love the Faceless Men; they are so badass.
Imagine what they are doing these days 😮
In so deep I’m about to geek 🥵
👍
If I have to guess the reason they’re so popular is because they have killed men with faces, and then they borrowed it
7:17 What the fuck's a lommie?
😂😂
Hopefully the shows writers?
If only.
🖤💚🖤
They also killed Ned Stark, but we’ll never know.
Jaquen was likely supposed to kill Ned stark.
Bird hunting?
Joffrey killed Ned
Illin Payne, grandmaster of the faceless men, of course.
the sons of jaehaerys 1, killed by faceless man, maybe,
*Whom
One I just thought about that could potentially of been a victim of the faceless men is Luthor Tyrell, Mace’s father.
It’s said he rode off a cliff while hawking, which seems odd even for an “oath” as Olenna remarks to him as.
I propose the idea that either Luthor wasn’t giving her the free reign she wanted over the reach or that she decided he was a lost cause becoming a detriment to the house and that Mace might be a slight improvement, so she hired a faceless man.
While I’m not sure obviously, it could be possible. Olenna certainly had the funds to do it being from the already wealthy Redwyne’s and then becoming the Lady of the Reach. And she can be quite ruthless as shown with the assassination of Joffrey where she murdered a child and let an innocent man take the blame.
Plus we’ve seen before the faceless men can use animals to some degree and make it look like an accident with the man Jaqen had killed by his own dogs. So maybe a faceless man had managed to lure Luthor’s horse over a cliff?
Regardless it’s an interesting one to think about.
Oaf, not oath.
Faceless men are the real opponents of Valyria.