British home wiring. The incredibly simple lighting circuits.
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- Very early on in the British electrical industry it was decided to standardise and simplify everything as much as possible for uniformity and safety.
The "ceiling rose" is a clever little junction box that we probably take for granted here, but it makes the lighting wiring very straightforward and versatile. Even if it's removed and replaced with a junction box above the ceiling it still results in a standard wiring arrangement to work with.
It's not just a junction box though. It also acts as a decorative and accessible base for a fixed or hanging pendant lampholder and can accommodate quite heavy light fittings like tiffany glass shades. The screw-on cover can also be painted to match the room decor if desired.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:-
www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of UA-cam's advertising algorithms allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty. - Наука та технологія
The great thing about "standards" is you have so many to choose from.
The British standards on wiring are the best, don't use any others. The 3 pin plug is a perfect example.
@@sensibledriver933 You wouldn't think the three pin plug was so perfect if you stood on one at 3AM.
@@chaosnexxus9255 In that instance it's the standards of your optician that you should question LOL.
Hahahah @110:35 "Plasterer comes along and plasters up to the surface of the box" - every one I have ever met fills the box full of plaster like it is a challenge!
I have a word for plasterers; it's c...s except the one who did my living room, cleaned the socket box! First one ever.
Indeed, we had one plaster right over the box, then skim the wall afterwards and nobody but us knew the damn box was there. The homeowner was not impressed that we had to smash off 4 brand new tiles (it was bang in the middle of the corners). But we did it with their permission. "oh don't worry, plasterer will be paying"
@@paulvale2985 in front of c...s, you could write "expensive, arrogant". However, they do give other builders an excuse for shitey work: leave the plasterers a key!
many newer boxes have a cheap installation help covers in the carton… and people throw them away… filling the boxes with plaster…
i've had to use a hammer to find the wall boxes before
I thought this was going to be boring but you made it very watchable thanks to your presentation.
Ran into these while living in the UK. My flat had some stupid proprietary three pin bayonet socket that wouldn't accept standard bayonets. Due to some silly deprecated energy efficiency law.
When I asked the letting agent if I could swap them up for sensible ones they sent in an electrician and I found out these existed. And the job was even simpler than I expected.
One of the cases where the UK has done something really quite sensible. 👍
my flat was also 3 pin to force u to buy overrpriced energy saving bulbs ( at the time already outdated CFL ) 2 pin lampholders cost 99p each and takes 1 min to change, so i changed all mine and bought 2 pin LED bulbs
*Really works well and Easy to instal **Fastly.Cool*
That pin @ 17:27 is called a detent. That's the first time I've ever had something useful to add but nobody will care one bit I imagine 😁.
I care 😎
@@BrendonGreenNZL Thanks 👍
Thank you, Big Clive, for bringing me back to this planet. In my flat, in Spain, there is no earth whatsoever. The sockets get pulled off the walls at the slightest tug, and the light bulbs actually unscrew themselves with time. One fuse for the whole house. The cable for the light in my bathroom is stapled to the ceiling, being tapped into a junction in the wall, and the bulb just hangs off it, no rose. Previous to that "installation" the bathroom lighting was from within a steel wall cabinet which went live when the condensation from a bath/shower got into it (=always) and I always got frizzy hair on opening its doors. I could go on...
That sounds safe… not lol
Are you still with us or have the laws of probabilities claimed yet another :P
I love the British electrical industry series.
Please continue with your rambles :)
Let's ready to RAMBLE!
I now have the Ant and Dec song stuck as an earworm. Thanks... >
@@dkevans No worries :)
I am an irish electrician. The sheathed earth in the twin and earth cable is in full swing. Its actually not as hard to strip as you might think. Its made the overall cable considerably bigger
This is really interesting.
I graduated industrial electricity class in 1982 here in 'Merica.
To see the way electricity is handled in other countries is really interesting.
Can't really say one is better than the other, but it really is cool seeing the way light boxes are designed across the pond.
Across the Pond here really only covers the British Isles or just the UK, with their ring circuit wiring. Aside from same voltage and frequency, the rest of Europe may have still some variation between each other, but all does it very different to the UK.
Nah the US is probably worse than most other developed countries. I mean proper RCD/RCB/RCBO circuits are still neither standard or enforced, and the only earth leakage protection you'll get is from bathroom outlets.
Also non insulated plug blades, not having switches on outlets etc.
:D running 120V also
@@PBMS123 Sorry but Earth leakage protection is also required on all outlets in kitchens Garages and outdoors also our new ones are required to be tamper resistant like the ones in the UK and I don't see how having switches on outlets is any safer
@@jadon-sc1zj it switches off both poles meaning you can shove something in the socket and won’t get a belt
@@blueboy4life who's shoving stuff into receptacles? You can easily wire the outlet to a switch it's just not practical. I have a couple wired to outlets because I can control those lights via a mechanical switch or wireless switch. They usually stayed on when nothing is plugged in, anyways
I'm helping a homeowner retrofit their electrics on a 110 year old house in the US. The original wiring (some still active) is fabric covered wire strung between ceramic posts. In the '30's, it was expanded, and in the 50's a new panel with circuit breakers was added. The walls and ceiling are plaster over lathe. It's a real challenge, especially with the 1970's tech we have available in our local stores. I wish I could get and use those Waygo boxes in the US.
Two way switches still blow my mind when wiring them up, and I'm the kind of person who will turn my hand to anything electrical.
Is it weird that I use your videos (in addition to being interesting and educational) as a mellowing out device? Sort of like how we enjoy Bob Ross?
Happy.little LEDs
@@comm744 I don't know if "There are no mistakes, just happy accidents" applies at 240V.
@@chaos.corner If so I assume chances are high a one time occurence...
Same with me,such a soporific voice,if only he was a detestable liar, he'd have a job for life on mainstream media, and BBC in particular.
As a german electrician this looks completely crazy to me. Id love to see a "reaction" Video about our standards and what you like / dislike / think about it.
As someone who lives in America, the color scheme is what keeps throwing me.
@@kuhljager2429 I remember back in the 90s, an American Electrician working on a site I was working on. Poor guy was new to the UK colour scheme, I think we were still on Black N Red L at that time, and he wired a distribution board all back to front, Black on the MCBs, red as Neutral, because he was used to Black being live back home. It was so neat too, and he had to rip it all out. Lots of swearing to be had that day. Felt sorry for him, you'd think someone would have told him early on.
they should be professional enough to inform about codes before, it’s not only coloring (in fact are they actually allowed to do electrical work without a local certificate?)
@@lesleymunro4964 He should have known what he was doing before he started.
Any German keywords for searching videos of your system? Would love to see too.
You.never Rambling mate! You are a natural speaker And Teacher.and have a nice calm voice.
Over in N America we call that lighting circuit configuration "Power into light", and is fairly common, although the reason it's done is purely to save copper runs, and you will see it mixed with "Power into switch" much like a receptacle (socket) circuit. Also because our domestic light circuits are often shared with sockets, they are all at least 15A circuits. (Yeah, we love to use as much copper as possible).
No rambling. Just the usual enthusiasm and knowledge. Clive have a omnipod you may want to tear down (insulin pump) let me know where to send x
Sweden uses mostly round boxes. There are very easy to use attachments to make holes for them. Hole saws =)
UK electrician here in Merry olde England~we electricians have a joke about the new brown,blue,colours and the old colours red and black. The way I heard it “ Red to Red,Black to Black, Blue (blew)to bits”
because so many DIY enthusiasts like to install their own new light fittings,usually on Saturday afternoons...writing It down doesn’t quite have the same impact as when saying it!
Here in NZ, we use red, black (and green for the earth wire, which has been insulated for a very long time), so whenever I've had to change a plug for an appliance with blue & brown wires, I say "black and blue, that will do" as a way of remembering which way they go.
new wire colours!? They are some 40 years+ brown, blue and green/yellow.
Here we had grey for N , black for L and red for earth it was changed 1967 to the what you called "the new colours.
Okay, time is relativ. I was surprised that my jet cleaner refused his job several day ago , bugger. I was angry about because I can´t finished my work . Those damned thing was 30 years old and was just over the warranty , shit.
One thing which bother me most ist the grey wire which was N is now an L . In some elderly installations there are lots of grey wires to be found. Even red earth wires.
For the flat cable in the US its called Romex, kinda like R12 is called Freon. There is a cheap tool called a Romex stripper. It looks like its made from a flat piece of sheet metal about a inch wide and about 5 inches long with a half inch hole in the center then looks like its folded around a half inch pipe. On one half its has like 1/8 inch "V" pressed then folded down like knife pointed down. So would slide the Romex cable through it out the hole in the center then you squeeze it so the "V" presses into the cable ,then pull the cable out with a slit now in the center of the cable.
Their 'twin and earth' appears somewhat similar to our UF cable. I was taught to strip UF using the method Clive showed at 8:40.
Would be handy if you could upload pictures so I could see what your describing
In the USA it's pretty common practice to take the power feed with the live and neutral to the switch box first, and then the neutral gets tied through in the switch box, and then just the switched feed and neutral goes to the light. Although taking the power feed to the light first and then only having one wire going down to the switch (commonly refered to as a "switch loop") is common too. The company I work for always tries to take the feed to the switch box first if we can. It makes trouble shooting easier IMO.
Jake Higgins Code (in the US) now requires a neutral in the switch box (presumably for smart switches and non-electromechanical timers) so switch loops are now forbidden as I understand it.
@@Cubik303 Makes sense, as a lot of dimmer switches and timers require it.
In eastern Canada, the "switch loop" is a "switch leg". Probably elsewhere too. It's the only time you get to wire an always hot black or red wire to a white (normally neutral) wire on the switch leg. This presents the light fixture with a black wire for the hot and a white wire for the neutral. So when the homeowner replaces his light fixture he simply connects black to black and white to white.
@@Cubik303 Or use an extra wire to carry the neutral to the switch.
@@Cubik303 There's actually 4-core cable made for that (amongst other uses). In this case you'd use it as L1/L2/N/E
Tell people the blanking plates are touch sensitive. Very entertaining to watch with a cup of tea ;)
Clive, I want to thank you for this most recent series about Mann's home wiring and street wires and the like. It's been so much more practical than the pink lights and endless USB powerbanks. I haven't seen any one say it so I wanted to say this series really goes above & beyond. Thank you.
Those pendant lights have been outlawed in the US for decades because one could slice through the flexible insulation. It must have a hard cover of some sort.
wow - and you guys call Australia a nanny state
and i believe Manx is the word for 'belonging to the isle of Mann'
@@mycosys We still have them. Usually for laundry machines hanging from the ceiling. Most of those would probably have been put in during the 60s-70s and are grandfathered in.
@@johnpossum556 very weird - here in Aus the normal fitting is a bayonet directly to the ceiling and hanging a pendant like that from it is pretty normal, they are available everywhere.
Such a relaxing video. You have such a lovely voice. I could listen to you for hours. Very interesting and helpful and funny in places too. Thanks a lot xox
That ceiling rose is interesting. Some old construction had those types of fixtures stateside from apartments I've lived in in the past. Its almost always junction boxes and a hanging light will be a chain type with lamp cord interlaced with the lamp chain, or a solid/surface mount fixture now.
I've seen those in the UK with a chandelier type light...
The sleeving on the ground is... interesting. In the US, we use a very similar type of cable for residential stuff (NM-B/"Romex"). The Romex comes with ground wrapped in kraft paper. I would usually strip the cable by pulling it taught, then slicing the top down the center, since you can feel where the ground conductor is. The ground wires are kept bare, bonded together with a wire nut or terminal, and also to the fixture/receptacle via a pig-tail. As others have mentioned, our lighting circuits for residential are normally done on a per-room basis (eg. 15A circuit per bedroom using 12/2). I believe the only times I've seen "lighting circuits" in a home, it was done to save cost and use 14/2 wire instead.
In our house, the circuits are grouped by common walls. This results in all of the smaller bedrooms having outlets and switches on at least two different circuits. The largest, non-Master bedroom has three circuits, IIRC. One it shares with the outside short wall with another bedroom. One it shares with the upstairs bath and stairwell. And one it shares with the inside wall of the small bedroom that it shares the short outside wall circuit with and the exterior wall of the back center bedroom and the hallway. That center back bedroom has one rogue outlet that shares a circuit with the master bedroom's closet and bath.
Makes no sense until you realize it minimized the length of wiring.
@@JamesTK It's really confusing when you go to the breaker box, though.
When we used to do rewires in the 80's, we'd take a feed from the hall light switch across to the common for the landing light (2 gang switch). Then a twin red up to the landing switch, from there to the landing ceiling rose & a nuetral to the nearest upstairs ceiling rose. Your voice is so interesting, you should do talking books.
Mixing/crossing neutral from different fuse branches is a safety problem as the crossed nuetral could be passing all the amps it's rated for, plus all the amps from the crossover.
@@WorBlux It will also trip RCD/RCBOs
The British wiring systems are probably the best in the world (cue patriotic music) but I do wish that we could get rid of bayonet fittings and standardise on Edison screw, which is far superior. The two gang or three gang light switches can be risky where upstairs and ground floor circuits come into the same switch plate-unfortunately, that was how my house was built but I would not have done it that way. As regards sharp edges on knock-outs, a round file sorts that out, but like you I prefer the ceiling roses with the large holes. Very interesting videos, Big Clive. Keep them coming.
If they were to standardise on a new lamp cap I'd suggest something like a GU10 that was finger proof.
I much prefer B22 bayonet to ES Edison screw. I have found the centre contacts on some ES type holders break contact with the lamp cap contact as they warm up. Resulting in a flashing light! On the quality B22 bayonet holders with sprung contacts, I have never experienced such a fault.
Also in critical applications where the correct focus and optical alignment are required, B22 bayonet holders are used (often with three locating pins rather than just two).
@@Mark1024MAK My main criticism of the bayonet cap design is that after a time, the sprung contacts can make a depression in the bulb's contacts, making it extremely difficult to remove. This I have found has happened quite a few times. Indeed, at one large power station at which I worked, every tungsten lamp fitting was changed from BC to ES. At my last power station, I had all the tungsten lamps in the reactor buildings replaced by Fluorescent lighting anyway. I was interested in your mention of 3-pin BC bulbs as the only ones that I have seen were fitted to coal effect electric fires in order that customers could only fit expensive replacement bulb!
Mervyn Partin - The type that I talked about are actually 12V expensive focused types used for long range visual signalling applications. Because of the relatively high currents, sometimes the lamp contacts cause similar problems to what you describe. However the root cause is too much solder being used on them. Given the large number that were in use, even so, we had only the occasional problem.
@@Mark1024MAK Ah, I see. Thanks for the update
Most walls in America are of the wooden-framed drywall type with lots of space between the two layers (whether they are interior walls or face the outside). So, our narrower, deeper boxes make a lot of sense in that context.
Do you run your cable in conduit inside the hallow walls?
@@mrsillywalk in most areas that is not required in standard residential walls. We use NM cable that looks like the cable Clive is handling in this video, except NM has 14 gauge wires and they are black, bare, and white.
@@Skyhawk1998 Also called Romex generically nowadays.
@@stewartcaldwell5299 yeah, you'll hear it called Romex most of the time. That was actually a brand name. But it does sound better than NM.
@@Skyhawk1998 Yup, I was an apprentice when romex was the only option. (not for long, though)
The shallowest box you will usually see wall mounted in an American home is 3.5 inches deep. In standard procedure here the homeruns (runs from the panel/consumer unit to their first junction) usually attach at the switch box nowadays. You will still see some older school electricians doing everything out of the fixture box occasionally. This almost makes me want to make my own video about box/wire standards here but I imagine that punch has been beaten.
I think a lot of it is new work vs rework. On new work all the wall cavities are exposed and at a decent working level, and you don't want to spend time on a ladder. Vs rework where the chase down the wall is the hard part, vs old work where the wire was expensive.
As WorBlux mentions, in the US, there are differences in new versus old work. "New work" usually has the switch, receptacle or ceiling box nailed to a stud or joist before the wall finish layer (plaster or gypsum board, typically) is applied. The idea is that the code inspector has all the wiring visible before the sheetrock crew or plasterers arrive. Wiring is typically "Romex", a brand of non-metallic sheathed cable, although my parents' home constructed in the 1950s used EMT conduit (that's where the electrician earned his beer). Boxes are typically ABS, although non-metallic older ones were phenolic. Runs are attached to studs using wire staples, with horizontal runs through studs being facilitated by a right-angle "hole hawg" drill.
Recessed fixtures typically have their own junction boxes attached and, on new work, are attached to ceiling joists with metal "stretcher" arrangements that allows for precise placement. Hanging fixtures, particularly heavy ones, are required to have a steel safety cable as part of the installation, one end attached at the box and the other to the fixture.
"Old work" is generally more forgiving--boxes are inserted into a hole cut into the wall or ceiling, with "ears" being expanded out to secure the inside of the wall, very similar to what Clive shows in the UK.
Wiring can vary quite a bit--supply->switch->fixture or supply->fixture->switch. Multigang switch boxes are not uncommon and can often be crammed pretty full with wiring. Recall that most residential wiring is AWG14 or AWG12 3 or 4-wire cable, with the bare ground run being one of the wires, so a box fills up pretty quickly.
Surface wiring is available, but not common; search on "Wiremold" for examples.
@@JamesTK I have some of those for US size sockets but they are not supposed to be used for high-voltage applications and, in my experience, they tend to let draughts through.
We have boxes in the U.S. that are shallower than 3.5" deep.
Doing the junction wiring in the switchbox is becoming more common over here. Arguably easier to inspect, maintain and alter in the future.
Those boxes for plasterboard are fantastic. I fell in love with them when retrofitting my house with Cat 6 data points.
Those lovely brittle white boxes are just perfect for smashing with the hoover😂
True, that. One reason to raise them above hoover height. :)
9:10 I have one of those tools that grabs the insulation in two places and rips it off. Best tool I ever bought.
British wiring is so strange, in germany you could never do this.. love your channel!
why can't you do that in germany?
Just asking, I live in germany too.
I know that we don't have the ceilling roses but they actually seem nicer than just a clamp. The switches seemed quite normal just another form factor.
But for me it seemse like it should be just fine to be used in germany.
@@racitup4114 I know nothing about this ... but having (permanent) Live at Switch presumably enables replacing switch with some fancy HA gadget (and without having to include non-Eco battery) ...
@@racitup4114 The extra wiring that you described makes sense. UK wiring has fuses in each plug, because the UK wired homes when copper was expensive. They'd run an entire house as a single circuit and expect the plugs and/or outlet switches to interrupt.
In the US, we have no expectation of low-power lighting circuits. I've spent too many hours sorting out ancient wires coming directly from ceilings without even a box to isolate. A constant sense of fear pervades such home rework: even when you cut at the breaker box and even disconnect inside the wall switch, you could still find out the neutral is from some other circuit. You can even find the occasional Carter System (hot-swapped 3-way lighting systems) that should never have survived the 1950s.
I like the idea of these low-power lighting circuits. However I'm more scared that the wiring is load-bearing: the electrical copper is holding the weight of the lighting fixture. That's not Code in the US, and for a good reason. I see those pendulae in Ikea but I always pass on them for ceiling work. Copper wire should be holding the juice, not the newtons.
pseydtonne Not quite sure what you mean by "low power lighting circuit". In the UK our lighting circuits are rated 6 Amps at 240 volts, so each lighting circuit can deliver almost 1.5 Kw if required. It's typical to have one serving the upstairs of a property, one downstairs, and possibly a separate one for the kitchen. Larger homes will obviously have more. These deliver more than enough power for incandescent lighting, and since almost everyone uses LED now they are arguably massively over specified!
In terms of the weight carrying capacity of those plastic ceiling roses, they are designed for simple and lightweight fabric shades, or the spun aluminium "school" type shades. If you're hanging anything heavier, such as a chandelier, we use a different ceiling fitting, made of metal, with a built in hook. The light will be suspended from that hook by a chain, and the wire run alongside purely to d liver the power.
My living room light went out one night and it was the old dangly wire which had burnt out. Replacing it in the dark on a rickety ladder with a torch in my mouth and a curious cat trying to get inviolved was quite an experience.
This is the type of thing i examine when on foreign holidays! Old town Dutch give me the shivers!
We've had a sleeved earth here in New Zealand my entire electrical career and for probably 25 years before I started. Ou do see it in much older houses, but it's rare to see these days
I remember finding a roundish one as a little boy, I coloured it in camo colours and made it as an army hat for my teddy bear 😂
Me too.
Me three
Great series of videos! I’ve always been curious about UK electrical wiring.
Thanks Clive!
I don't understand but your voice is relaxing and you make me feel smart, so thank you
I have to say that I like EU standard cabling and electrical installation much more than UK standard. To me those boxes and switches what you've shown look like those are from the 80's or 90's. What I've used to is made by ABB or Schneider and those are much much higher quality and designed much better aswell.
Wago connectors in the other hand are amazing.
@@andrew_koala2974 1980 and 1990 is 1930 years ago? Wow, in that case I am thousands of years old. What calendar do YOU use? :P
In case you didn't know, that is the common way to write those years btw ^^
@@andrew_koala2974 Yeah, google it and learn the common way to shorten years. You are contributing nothing in your efforts to troll ^^
@@andrew_koala2974, there's an 'eighties' every -decade- _Edit:_ century. Just like there's an April every year.
@@andrew_koala2974 If you are an english teacher, you should really learn to spell correctly. You are a disgrace to the educational system :D
@@watchling rly '80, '70 '60... Everyone know we talk about 19xx...
Making comments about this show your stupidity.
Wow.This all points to the stone house approach.
The electrical system is obviously geared towards the house being of stone and one has to route out stuff.
Electrical boxes in Norway is mostly made to fasten to the inside wall joists (wooden beams) before adding insulation and sheetrock or panelling.
They are all made to connect with either straight or spiro piping and even have the locking/gripping systems for these pipes built in.
Also, any fixture for hanging a light will have to secure the cable separately from the termination.
The metal boxes can be secured to the sides of wooden straps.
1kreature - Yep, we have a lot of buildings constructed from limestone blocks, bricks, concrete blocks etc. Wood frame homes are not common here in the U.K.
In older homes, all the original internal ground floor walls are solid (often brick). On the first floor, the internal walls can be either solid or a wood frame with plaster board.
So if installing new circuits, there is a lot of work required to cut out routes for the wiring and to cut holes for the metal back boxes.
Clive, nice video! Here in Australia our TPS cable has PVC on all three conductors. We find the best way to strip our cable is to grab either one of the side conductors at the end of the cable (Live or neutral) with pliers, then pull downwards along the cable. This tears the outer insulation allowing for access to the cables inside. It also means all we really need to terminate any cables is just a pair of pliers and a screwdriver.
It’s also no longer solid core though I have still seen it available at a certain large hardware chain store😜
I managed to screw up a 2 way switching lighting circuit because one of the feed wires was loose and flickered the light (not good for led's) and got the common and feed wires messed up. I almost got an electrition to sort it out but thanks to the dry but excellent John Ward Video on lighting circuits I worked it out.
John's videos are quite dry and functional. He should try having a large glass of wine before making one to see how it affects it.
@@bigclivedotcom One vid he did showed an array of empties that suggested he might already be doing that. :)
That's so weird. In Australia (which at first guess I would've thought is the same as UK) we run the live supply to all primary switches. Switched legs then are wired to each primary luminaire. The reason is one of safety; It means when a switch is off - there are no live wires within the vicinity of the lighting receptacle. Handy when people are sticking hands into ceiling cavities etc.. I would have to go read the wiring rules to see if it was permissible to wire it like the UK, but I can't see anything fundamentally wrong with the idea.
It's the same in Germany. There is no live wire on the ceiling if the switch is off (or at least there shouldn't be, I still always check). Those ceiling roses prevent you from having to handle live wires when changing a lamp though - this makes it slightly safer. In Germany we only get loose wires dangling from the ceiling.
Malte Sartor That sounds awful. A ceiling rose is so simple and cheap and looks very tidy.
@@donaloflynn It is illegal to have active (or as you folks call it live) going to the light fixture instead of the switch for new installs.
All new builds are wired live to switches now, it's easier to change the pendant for a more modern fixture which I guess is more user friendly. However running new cables in a roof its a lot easier to drop a cable to a rose and run it to a room and have just one cable to the switch. If running say two way lighting or two way and intermediate switching its just less congested. When I helped rewire my parents bungalow I just pulled the old wire out the conduit in the wall and put a new cable Down. Gutted a room and just clipped a new cable from 1 rose round and dropped it into the other rose. Having multiple gang switches it saved trying to cram more wires into a switch. Knowbody should be messing with circuits live anyway so I have never considered it unsafe as it's all terminated neatly in a rose with finger safe terminals.
In the uk houses used to be wired in conduit or single insulated wiring, using shallow flush back boxes, and the conduit or channel going to the switch was only big enough for the live conductors. When the current twin and earth cable was bought in, and houses were rewired, there was only room for one cable down to the switch in a lot of cases, so thats why the 3- plate system was introduced and neutrals were sent straight to the light fittings.
On a new house build, electricians mostly now install deeper back boxes and it is more common to take the live and neutral loop in and out of the switch box, with just the one twin and earth cable up to the light fitting. This method became more popular when downlighters and fancy light fittings came into fashon, with their tiny termination boxes.
30 yrs working on electrics & electronics and I still have brain-fade on opening up a 3 gang light switch & seeing a multitude of mixed new T+E new blue/brown, old T+E red/black and yellows for good measure.
is brain fade another word for stiff drink?
Hi Clive .great video, the wago junction box is a maintenance free JB but it is only classed as maintenance free when you sill the lid with a cable tie , also wago connectors are only classed as maintenance free connection’s when used in conjunction with the correct wago junction box. Personally I think wago are a godsend they have proven tobe a game changer. Also the cable to the switch I was tort it is termed as Red / brown switch line / feed black/blue is the switch return. Now it is termed as brown is line blue is switching line . The biggest problem DIYers have is they don’t realise that on a three plate lighting circuit there is no natural at the switch. Unless you take the feed to the switch and that is only used for two plates circuit and is becoming more common with the use of LED downlights.
Here in Austria I have learned the multiple switches schematic as two wires only. One goes from L to the common on the changeover switch, then two wiresfrom L1 and L2 go to the second switch respectively and the common from that one goes to the lamp. Each lamp is earthed, fed neutral and live separately. And if you want to have more than 2 switches, you just get a double changeover and wire the commons of it together and that L1 and L2 from switch one in the one side of the changeover and from the other side you just do the same to the 3rd switch. Adding more switches in the circuit you just do double changeover thing again.
Try doing that with a 5 wire cable while not using blue as anything else than neutral and brown as phase. You wire it as they did the last century. The more modern way is how Clive describes it. Also uses less wires and is easier to follow. Especially if you have your junctions in the ceiling.
@@arneanka4633 They were actually teaching it the way I described it 7 years ago as I was in school. And around here you don't typically use 'n' conductor cable, but single wires pulled in the walls, how many wires you actually need. Except wet/humid/outside areas where you run an 'n' cundoctor cablebecause of the ruggedness and extra protection and "waterproofness".
(The variable n is the number of how many single wires you would need for that specific run.)
@@MrHardCore2Quad So you run H07Z1-R in your walls without pipes? I'm talking about places where you must have cables like N07XA5EZ1-U. It may be a garage, a shed or in the ground.
Come in the game and upgrade to the next generation of wiring. They did that in UK years ago and we in Sweden has done it since many ears. Ever since the day some got too lazy to run two cables to the switch-socket combo. Be lazy and save copper.
@@arneanka4633 Oh hell no. 🤣 We run pipes. Or better said plastic conduit. I just thought that would be a no brainer that we run the cables in conduit. :) In a garage (industrial building) or so we run an equivalent of the N07XA5EZ1, mostly on rails, depends on vintage of the building. In the garage of a house we would still run the single copper in multiples of how many you need (in the wall in conduit). If it is an 'aftertought' so to said then we would run it outside the wall in another form of conduit if there is no way of pulling it inside the wall.
26:20 I think adding the cable tie means that it's classed as "inaccessible without tools" which helps with some ratings
In high school I was taught how to make a combination connection a little different, you connect 1A to 1B, 2A to 2B, live to common A and the lamp to common B.
I'm pretty sure I've got both setups in my house, with at least one (original wiring) done the way you describe and another (new wiring done with three-core-and-earth between three switches, the kitchen has three doorways so it's got an intermediate switch - which swaps A and B - as well).
Dear Clive. Absolutely love your vids, I learn a lot.
Yes, and I also carried a Stanley flick type safety knife with me once in the Westfield Shopping Centre. A security guard, out of pure jealousy, ratted(grassed me up)insurance
The Scolmore Click/Status switches which you can unscrew are actually compatible with their grid modules too. They do a whole bunch of different ones, including retractive. Love them.
Most of the solutions shown are much different than those used in Poland (and likely in many more European countries). British switches nor sockets won't fit our (round) boxes. And even the toggle switches (called "staircase switches") are connected in a different way. I like the concept of a ceiling-mounted lighting junction boxes, haven't seen this before.
I'm British but have used euro boxes extensively in my past. I found them quite good due to the modular design. I prefer the self tapping screws to our tapped ones. Just seemed to make the job quicker.
@@ollylewin I suppose 3.5 mm sheet-metal screws would work fine in UK boxes, just going back to the metric screws supplied with new switches would be impossible. I've done that with Italian boxes that use machine screws with an obscure thread (I suspect they may be American) and I couldn't find longer ones.
Fun fact, in the US, we actually refer to two-way switching as three-way switching, but it's wired in a very similar way...so I'm not sure why we call it three-way.
I can help here. Unusually. in the UK, it's named after the number of light switches up to 3....In the US, it's the number of terminals on the switch. So one with 2 positions in the US, it's 3 way , and UK 2 way...) if it has, 4terminals, and crosses the (travellers/strappers) it's [en UK 3way] and [en US...4 way] In the UK, we (southern England) tend to refer to anything with more than 3 positions as 'intermediate' circuits)... as many 4 terminal/intermediate switches as necessary can be added. This can become ridiculous in buildings with 7 storeys.
Maybe it's because the switches have 3 terminals? Your guess is as good as mine lol
Well it could also be the wiring because in the US, it would be return (neutral), hot in (live in), and hot out (live out)
@@eagerestwolf The US "Three way" is indeed because of the wiring. It was very early on called a "three wire" switch. I have some old "electrical world" publications which were the digests of standards and available products (quite useful prior to the internet) from the late 1800s ~ early 1900s in which it is called a "three wire" switch. Somewhere along the way terminology became corrupted.
3 wires, usually from top to bottom of stairs.
it certainly is interesting seeing how other countries tackle the same tasks. bare earths were banned about 50 years ago in australia. insulated earth wires don't corrode over time therefore are safer. the double insulated flat cables have a slight groove along them to aid in tearing them open. 20 years ago the boss was given some plastic wall boxes (for brick etc. walls). he asked me what i thought. i told him to never ever get the metal boxes ever ever again. the plastic ones just slid in to the holes i cut and had saw-toothed tabs to keep them in place. usually no need to cement them in. hole not square? don't worry, just hammer them in. they'll flex to fit. in australia, both metal and plastic boxes have nuts in slots to allow for adjustments when screwing the cover on. plenty of knock-outs and no sharp conductive metal surfaces to damage insulation. and they come with a thin polyethylene cover for the convenience of plasterers. really worthwhile checking them out and possibly consider importing them to uk if they come in sizes suitable to uk equipment. i also kind of think the low-tech australian junction boxes and screw connectors have some advantages over the high-tech boxes on this clip.
You say ramble, I say I learn. Thanks for sharing you knowledge. Cheers.
If the earth isn't sleeved it also means its easier to trip the circuit breaker in case of a fault like drilling a cable.
That makes sense!
Bare grounds have caused more deaths than electrical problems ever have
@@davewolf8869 It's not a conductor. 😳
@@m101ist How the fuck is it not a conductor?
Please tell us the story about the fault with the TT supply.
It might be like the fault I saw recently where the shallow metal box was making occasional contact and tripping the lights. If the user pressed slightly harder in one area it made the wire touch the box and trip the breaker.
Not easy to diagnose because the fault only happens when pressed. To look at the wiring and test it, it all passes.
I've also had that "why does the earth have live current?" problem as well.
Here in North America the standard box is about 2" deep I think. Standard box takes electrical switches, sockets etc. They also take your rj11, rj45, and coaxial cables... just different faceplates with the same screw pattern. Makes things easier.
I just love those Waygo connectors. Never got to use them much, my contractor was a tightwad on materials. But the few times I got to use them, I found them so much nicer than wire nuts.
Yes, but when working inside heater-type appliances or halogen lights, the joys of solid ceramic wire nuts cannot be overstated. Of course, that's with appropriate high temp wire, such as Hypalon, Teflon, silicone or silicone w/ glass braid.
In Czech republic, we use round plastic boxes in walls. Cables have always all conductors sleeved. We use round and flat cables as well. Screw terminals are quite obsolete, we're switching to Wago style terminals. Most light fixtures have terminals inside and you are supposed to connect a cable to it. I think the practices in my country are similar to other European countries.
Same in Poland: Round, plastic "cans", 60 mm diameter for switches and outlets, 70-80 mm for interconnections, available in various depths. Earth wire always sleeved (green-yellow). In recent past screw connectors were common. You got like 20-way strip of dual-sided screw terminals made of soft plastic that you cut to length. Switches and outlets use 2 methods of fixing: First is set of metal teeth that spread out and bite into plactic can as you turn the screws, pulling socket towards the wall. Additionally there are screw holes to further secure the socket to the can. On top of that goes insulating bezel held usually with a screw. In terms of switches you can often buy identically looking 1-way switch with one on-off terminal, "stairs" switch that switches between common or "cross switch" that is used when you want more than 2 switches. Our light points are usually furnished with bare wire and a hook. Switches with more than 2 buttons are very rare. When you want more buttons or sockets you can buy multiple length cans (multiplies of 60 mm) later covered with single decorative bezel, the longest bezel I've seen is for 6 switch or socket modules
You probably adopted the German standard with 73 mm for switches and sockets and 83 mm as junctions. But did you get double boxes for stacking and 1½ boxes for 2-way sockets? Or the big-box with half a box under a standard box where you can put a z-wave or any other active device?
www.elko.se/bigbox/category1646.html
@@arneanka4633 It looks similar, but different, dimensions are different and we have 4 screw holes 90 degree apart. See how our cans for stone walls look like (60mm in-wall can)
www.google.pl/search?tbm=isch&sa=1&q=puszka+podtynkowa+60
We do have a variant very similar to what you've shown, with a chamber for putting electronics in. Or for massive bunch of interconnections next to a socket :)
@@arneanka4633 Yes, we have stackable boxes. These are used for multiple devices next to each other. The two way socket fits in a single box.
Also all devices have removable covers. The internal part is installed in the box first.
Number of times I've said, "This electrical box is just too deep!": 0
Sometimes they are too deep, or the wall has been built out, say, adding a tile backsplash in a kitchen or something where the original junction box depth is no longer sufficient.
:0
Blaine Bugaski then the box itself isn’t too deep, it’s just set too deep in the wall.
@@JasperJanssen Well, yes, I thought you were talking about recessed depth rather than box size.
Michael Litscher: I always I could do with it being deeper and have a bit more room to work and not have the wires all crushed together. I also hate it when they connect a wire at the switch or a socket and then pull the wires back to the meter box giving no room to disconnect the wires again at the socket.
Here in the US, the two way switch is called the 3 way switch due to the 3 terminals it has. We typically bring the live feed from the fuse board/ circuit breaker mains panel to the "common" terminal on the first switch. The light fixture is connected to the "common" terminal on the second switch. Two wires called "travellers" connect the switches together. The neutral line is fed straight through the switch boxes to the light fixture.
We call the travelers between the three way, two switches strapper here in the UK.😳
SO many more options as compared to the US designs. Also since you're dealing with 240vac instead of 120vac, you can get away with a bit lighter guage of wire. Good info. as always!! 👍
Wow, I did not know the lighting circuit in the uk is that much different to our german version .
It was introduced to stop people running irons and other high wattage appliances off light pendants. A lot of people once worked in factories where vertically hung power or air tools were common, people copied it. Caused a lot of fires back in the days of fuse wire.
Number of times I've said, "I wish this electrical box were deeper.": too may to count.
...... Not when you are the guy knocking holes into the brickwork (or concrete)!
Meh, knocking holes in bricks or concrete is quick and easy. Just messy.
@@ColtaineCrows... unless it is you that is doing it ... in someone’s home!
Yeah... cutting conductors a lot shorter than you really want to just so you can shove the socket/switch in... been there a few times mate!
@@totherarf Agreed, to be honest. Praying the neighbours don't see any cracks in the plaster! Especially when it's an house built for the poor folks many years ago where the inner courses are all brickbats and mortar! When I rewired my bedroom many years ago as training, I was very ginger with that bolster! :D
Was watching your PCB developing an building videos.. when I got notification for this video.. really like the PCB videos.. wish you can do more.. love all your videos though
There's no point anymore. You can have them made for very cheap, multi layer, stuck turn around.
I love these rambly explanatory demonstraty videos :)
Note on the Wagobox, that tab for "zip tie" could also be used with a tamper-evident device.
Or 'circuit under repair' sign.
or used to secure it to something?
All good answers. Could just be that they had an actual sparky helping design this stuff and he asked, "What if I want to attach somethin' to it?"
It's for a cable tie you are supposed to have to use a tool to open a junction box. So some tool does not open it
@Indosarnia Agreed
2:30 holy ****, I've never seen this in use here, but I thought it might be good idea, so I started wiring house that way. Now I learned it's quite common in UK O.O Also I decided to do it that way because I expect dimmable lights to be more common in future and this way you just slap potentiometer instead of light switch and can simply control it. Or you can use it as communication lines for DALI lights that might be more common in future too :)
Of course light fixtures here aren't prepared for this, so I hope there will be enough room to fit one extra wago terminal in here :/
If you're interested how is it done here - you have light connected with cyky-j 3x1.5mm^2, light switch with cyky-o 3x1.5mm^2 and it's both connected together in small box usually just under ceiling, directly above light switch, where is also cable from distribution box (again cyky-j 3x1.5mm^2) that continues to box in other room. Real terminal hell happens here sometimes.
9:00 but when you have all three wires insulated, then it makes sense to get round cable, which can be easily stripped with special knife - ua-cam.com/video/AWgl_pUSVes/v-deo.html
Sounds interesting, but *where* exactly is "here" at?
Also, could you explain those wire designations to a Yank, please?
Thank you for explaining switching! I have always wondered how that worked 🤯
Fascinating! US wiring is VASTLY different. No in-wall connections without an accessible junction box, wire nuts instead of screw terminals, HEAVY plastic or metal boxes. You could hit a plastic box with a hammer several times and do almost no damage.
I love your screw terminals - those are cool.
To connect multiple wires to a single screw here, you wire nut them all together with a pigtail wire that you screw down. Some morons put multiple wires on the same screw, with a loose connection and arcing as the result. Your wiring is fascinating to me.
Oh, and our cables have a nylon thread in them that you can pull on to cut the sheathing, and our ground/earth is always left bare copper. I rewired much of a house built in 1901. Many ancient outlets, with no ground wires.
My electrical supervisor friend said when he's interviewing a new hire, he always makes them draw the circuit for 3-way switching (that's what we in the US call controlling a light from two locations).
In industrial maint I have them draw a simple motor control circuit , start, stop, and Estop with coil, contacts, and pilot light.
If you're interested I can send you some boxes and switches from the US, so you can do a comparison.
Stop trying to embarrass our country. :-)
I was thinking the same thing. Completely different.
This would be interesting for all us UK folk, I've used most of what Clive showed here so not overly interesting, but seeing someone elses would be good - plus with Clive guessing at certain bits
@@Roger_Gustafsson - Never heard of 3 phase in a house here in the US. That is industrial usage. Bigger appliances in homes get 240V instead of 120V. It was interesting seeing some of the UK fittings.
Ten 4 American Homes get a split single phase off of a center-tapped transformer. For example: my breaker box at home. The two hot wires come in and pass through a 350 amp main breaker. There are two “hot” or “live” bus bars which breakers can attach to. Each breaker for standard outlets or lights or small appliances is usually a 15, 20, or 30 amp breaker with the circuit linked between one of the busbars and neutral. The standard 3 prong outlets are designed so an appliance with a 15 amp plug can be plugged into a 15, or 20 amp outlet, but the 20 amp devices cannot plug into a 15 amp outlet. For devices that need large currents, say, electric stoves, clothes dryers, heaters, central air conditioners (most window units are 20 amp 120v), etc. are wired with a breaker across both “hot” busbars, which are essentially 2 120v 60hz phases 180 degrees apart from each other. This gives an effective 240v RMS which can be hardwired or plugged with a very large 4 prong plug (rated for up to 40 amps I believe) Quite a few American homes have large amounts of breakers, our panel has 60 breaker spots and all of them are full. American homes don’t usually have central RCDs, (GFCIs in the USA) instead opting for outlets with built in RCDs within 5-10 feet of any water source or outdoors, but there are some RCBOs used (GFCI-Breaker is a term I’ve seen in the US, but i don’t think they have an official name) Our hot tub, for example, is switched with a 240v 75 amp breaker with a 30 milliampere RCD/GFCI built in to the breaker.
These videos are nerdy. Fun to watch, thanks.
In New Zealand we call this 3 plating. It is mostly unused in housing here these days. What we generally do is take the live feed to the light switch and then there's a "switch wire' running to the light. It's quite different, thought the two way is basically the same with some very minor differences.
(mains) 'loop at switch' (with switched going to the fixture) vs 'loop at fixture'
I wired a small box when I was 6. When I plugged in the power, the fuse popped. I looked at my dad, who was laughing and said, well I guess you learned not to wire it that way. Actually I did see what I’d done wrong and haven’t wired a short again. That was 59 years ago. Talk about life long lessons...
Tom Jopling I used to do that sort of thing at about the same age at about the same timeframe! That’s also when I discovered that plasticine is quite conductive...
That reminds me of one time I just got an audio amplifier from a fleamarket. The metal chassis appeared to be hot. Unfortunately by the time I figured out the problem was in the outlet wiring, I had already taken the amplifier to pieces because I thought it was unsafe.
I've done that with a friend at his house and that tripped the electric protection of the house. We were 10-11 and no adult present. By the time they came back and put the electricity back on, all the tropical fish of my friend's sister were dead (cold water killed them).
Weird watching how you do it in other countries. Electrician in Norway here.
New Zealand and Australia have an insulated earth in their TPS cables. Stripping them is dead easy, you make a small cut with you side cutters into the end, grab the separated cable with your side cutters and just pull out sideways with tears the TPS down the rib. Because we have battery holders where the light fitting is screwed direct to the ceiling the more common practice is to "Loop at switch" rather than "loop at light". This makes the job of fitting light fittings quicker and easier as there are fewer cables and connections to be held in the fitting . It also means that you only need 1 type of cable for lighting, 1mm twin and earth. Fault finding is simpler with "loop at switch" as there is no need for a ladder, 90% can be done at floor level.
Why in the UK do we have plugs with so many features to stop you getting zapped by poking things in a plug socket - the long earth pin, the shuttering, the screening on L and N - yet the bayonet light sockets expose mains voltage in a nice fat finger size opening?
Old "grandfathered" standards. Lamp holders like the GU10 units are designed to embrace that issue.
I recently did an initial inspection on a friends new wiring to his house when it dawned on me that, despite a Regs. book as thick as a Littlewoods catalogue, P certs and technilogical advancements we (the UK) still wire houses exactly as we did 40+ years ago :/
In the US we have multiple circuits serving each room with as many as 20 breakers; if a light in one room is shorted the whole house doesn’t go dark.
Something Clive didn't really mention (he hinted) was that 2 (or more) storey houses in the UK have at least a lighting circuit per floor (most "normal" houses have 2 circuits), with the light at the top of the stairs fed from the ground floor (in the case of one circuit tripping, it should then be possible to have lighting on the stairs at least via another room and open door).
We also have a tendancy for plug in lamps that are powered through the ring circuits rather than the lighting circuits, so are fused seperately again (via the ring), so we tend only to be left with no lighting in the case of complete power failure.
If the US does it the same was as up here in Canada (Where I'm from. Not my fault) the wall outlets are on the same circuit as the lights, all protected by a standard 15A breaker/fuse, with one circuit supplying one or two rooms.
I've been getting the impression that in the UK lights and outlets are on separate circuits, protected by breakers of varying amperage.
@@jamesbrown4092 The lights and outlets in the UK are indeed on seperate circuits, using different cable sizes and different breakers to suit.
Lighting tends to use around 1 sqmm cable, with a 6A breaker (though both can be increased if required) and outlets use 2.5 sqmm (with a 20A breaker for a radial circuit, or 32A breaker for a ring circuit).
@@jamesbrown4092
In general, outlets in the UK form a large loop or ring (as opposed to the hub and spoke model in North America) with something like a 100 amp breaker. As a result, legal UK appliances come with an appropriately sized fuse built-in to the appliance's plug itself.
@@dbernat32 a 220V/100A breaker!?!? What?
I love these videos .. learned so much from this channel along the years !
Hi Clive,
Great video, I think the loop in system is in its final days now. Even on a rewire I hardly ever use that system, unless switch drops are partially difficult.
I always feed switches where possible and now if I remember rightly the 18th edition requires a neutral conductor at switch positions.
I'll have to check that. They could achieve it with the standard rose by running a three core and earth wire down. It's odd to think that in a previous version of the regulations they didn't allow a neutral at a switch at all to prevent people from looping a socket from it and "upgrading" the fuse.
I'll try and find the reg number for you when I get a minute.
But yes your right, a 3core from the rose to the switch would solve it in a loop in environment.
Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad system and for say rewiring a bungalow and re using the existing switch drops it's ideal.
@@Josh__Stevens it's not required, it states it should be considered.
559.5.1.208 Consideration shall be given to the provision of the neutral conductor, at each switch position, to
facilitate the installation of electronic switching devices.
I'm curious though to a neutral not being allowed at switches in previous editions. Was that really the case?
Thank you
I'm in Canada (USA is pretty much the same), and the boxes have a volume rating in cubic inches, as do any depth extensions added to the front. The device (switch/outlet), individual conductors, and wire nuts all have deemed volume that they occupy, and the total of these cannot exceed the total volume of the box.
Switching may be either on the end of the circuit (as you showed) or before the switched device, whichever is most convenient.
I must admit I've never seen 3-way switches connected that way. Here they are generally wired with the line going to the common on one switch, the L1 and L2 (actually, the two brass screws) connected to the corresponding terminals on the second switch, and the switched power taken from the common of the second switch. If the circuit continues to the switched device, there is also a neutral (and ground) running between the switches. If the switches are beyond the switched device, the switched power (and ground) also run between the switches, so either way you need 3-conductor+ground between the switches, and the arrangement uses the same amount of wire as that you showed. If you want a third switch, the switch has 6 terminals (full DPDT) and you have to wire the crossovers yourself.
This 3-conductor cable is usually white-black-red (neutral-hot-another_hot) (plus ground) but when the white carries hot (switched or not) each end must be "permanently marked" to something other than white (or green). I usually do this with a permanent felt tip marker on the full length of the exposed wire, although common practice is just to put a bit of electrical tape around part of the wire.
The ground wire is bare in the cable and bare (not sleeved) in the box.
Super interesting how different they are, and honestly they look better than ours. Ours in the US look like they were designed in the like 30s, and have barely been updated.
British ones are pretty old design, the ceiling rose standard is still much the same as in 1929 (BS 67:1929). The one for wall sockets is from 1947 (BS 1363).
In NZ/AUS, we use TPS cable (twin and earth equivalant) and its 3 wires each insulated. The outer sheathing shows the indentations created by the inner cables so you can tell where they are, just run the knife down between two wires and you can break it apart easily.
Very similar practice in Australia (these days). Though my house, wired in the early 1920s, neutral is looped at ceiling roses/ bayonets and active at is looped at the wall or ceiling switch, so any one fitting has a maximum three wires going to it. Must have taken a lot of planning to correctly feed the conduits
...At first I was baffled by a loop for the lights. Due to lights and outlets being in the same circuits here. Okay, no big deal. Just a tad different.
Then I saw you start to draw the two way switch, everything fine, no big deal going- aaand I had to realize that yes, your switches are exactly the same ones as ehre. But they are used in pretty much exactly the opposite way.
Never really seen a rose like you've shown. the only ones we use are essentially just a cover if you don't plan to use the light there. I've seen a Bajonet fixture only once in my 8 years doing electrical stuff as well.
And yet baffled again by seeing a bare earth.
Here's how we strip cable ends with all insulated wires: Lightly cut around it, bend the cable so it tears open and then you can just pull off the insulation. Or you can use a cable knife.
To the switch boxes, yeah. really different once again. Switches too.
Surprised to see just how far yours jump out of the wall.
I'm honestly kinda tempted to collect a bunch of things and post a summary of how we do it in Switzerland now.
My house here in the US have both the switch as a spur and the wires going to the switch first. I believe the current standard is to go to the switch first as this is needed for some fancy kinds of switch. I have a PIR switch in the back room and I had to run a neutral to it especially as it's the spurred-switch kind.
The problem with stripping all-insulated cable like that is it's very easy to cut too deep and nick the insulation on the wires inside, in a way that is not obvious at the time but potentially dangerous or could randomly short out later. I really like being able to strip twin&earth from the end as Clive showed, as it's much less likely to nick the inner insulation.
Those metal boxes Clive showed are made to be sunk into the wall leaving s surface switch plate or socket about 10mm (less than 1/2") deep.
There is an alternative method for stripping T+E cables ..... You cut into the cable from the end parallel with the cores. Open the Grey (or white) sheath and expose the bare earth. Grip the earth with your snips and pull at right angles to the cable. This will pull the bare earth through the sheath splitting it down its length (if you are in a socket or switch it will only strip to the exact length you need. You then pull the exposed cores out of the sheath and cut the excess sheath off! Much quicker and used by nearly all sparks I have rubbed shoulders with!
Dave W - I use the banana skin technique. Cut about an inch (25mm) into the end either with snips / side cutters or a knife (scoring towards the cut end from a point an inch in with the cable flat). Then pulling the brown and the blue wires apart so that the outer sheath splits. Keep going until the required amount is stripped.
Clive, Would you be interested in receiving a number of US 110v switches and other items for comparison?
haha no such thing as a "2 way switch" - we call that a 3 way
@@thedavesofourlives1
In the US, a "2 way" would be the normal on/off switch. It is a term that is not often used.
3 way is the one for the 2 "stations" of switching.
4 way is when you have 3 or more "stations"
Having sent things from the US to the UK, you'd (or Clive) would probably be better off ordering them directly from China to his address.
@@chaos.corner agreed, its ferkin dears to ship stuff from USA
I'm guessing they must sell American style switches and sockets from China on eBay.
Very interesting to see the differences, because it confirms what I always say: "Just because it's code, standard, or deemed normal, doesn't necessarily mean that it's best." I wouldn't want to wire under British code, but I also wouldn't want to be lineman for the power company here in the states. It's ridiculous what is allowed in one scenario, but not in another!
the function of any code is for a SAFE install. if one strictly followed this it's safe... but NOT practical, efficient, pretty, etc. only that needed for safe. and at least minimal. and the Inspector may require "upward mitigation" as necessary to meet the standard.
You are a Neat System, Clive! ;-) Thanks again for putting yourself in harms way so we can learn. Those screwdrivers can stab you somethin' fierce. I love switches.
If you need a neutral connection in the switch, you can do the switch drop in 3core + earth, that way you can have permanent live, neutral and switched live on the same cable.
I've never seen such a lighting junction box here in germany, makes me wonder why? Looks like a very good idea!
Maybe Germany uses the loop through rather than three plate wiring method.
This involves bringing a cable with both the line and neutral down to the switch box and connecting to a cable going back up to feed the next lighting circuit. The luminaire cable would be the third cable that is fed right to the switch box.
The neutral would be connected directly through to the luminaire cable but the line wire would go through the switch. There are three cables in the switch box rather than just one in the three plate (ceiling rose) method unless it's the end of line.
Using the three plate method cuts down on the wiring needed. This was probably implemented due to post WWII shortages (just like the descision to use ring circuits rather than having radial circuits).
The two plate method is gaining ground in new installations in the UK as it enables "smart switches" to have the permanent power they require to work.
@@wwsxa39 there is brands out there that do not require a neutral at the switch for smart switching
@@wwsxa39 No, our junction boxes just look different.
Interesting how you do two way switches compared to the US and Canada. There, the commons aren't attached to each other. The line-in goes to one, and the switched line for the fixture is the other one. You still need three wire cable between them. Either to carry the neutral to the other end, or to get the switched hot back (line and load at opposite or same ends). I've never seen a rose (rosette) like this, you always have to use a J-box attached to the ceiling and you use wirenuts to connect wire-to-wire. Jboxes usually need t be metal, and attached firmly enough to support at least 25 pounds. Things like ceiling fans or heavy chandeliers are rated much higher and have eye-bolts for extra support. Terminal strips are rarely used outside of electrical panels. Electrical cable hung fixtures are extremely rare (except for bare sockets usually used as temporary lighting (termed "pigtail sockets"). The J box is usually covered with a bezel that either has a ring for a chain support, (the power cable is weaved through) or is actually part of the fixture base. Until the advent of LEDs (and some more late model halogen recessed pot/track fixtures) virtually all bulbs were edison screw base. None of this spring-loaded twist bi-pin stuff.
When you have two switches controlling a single light, we normally call those in the US a 3-way switch. The conductor that goes between the switch is usually called a traveler. It's interesting to see how you guys buy your switches with the wall plate as an integral part, where as we buy the switches and cover plates individually, which allows us to build a lot of different combinations, including having a receptacle, if wanted.
Several manufacturers produce modular wall plates with various inserts available. Using this system, you can have countless combinations...
No rambling at all... very enlightening of the differences of electrical installation hardware in the UK vs. North America.
Those Wago connectors would be a huge time and space saver vs. the spin on wire nuts / Marrettes used here in Canada.
It surprises me the amount of plastic electrical boxes used in the UK. Almost everything here, unless for a wet location would be galvanized steel.
The lighting circuits here would involve bringing the 14/2 (copper) or 12/2 (aluminum) power from a 120 Volt, 15 Amp fuse/breaker panel to the switch, and then carry on to the light, with the live (black) switched, and the neutrals (white) joined at the switch box.
The cables themselves are similar, with a bare earth wire in the center between the black and white wires, and can be stripped of the jacket in the same manner along the earth wire.
Ceiling light junction boxes are just a galvanized steel octagon, with earthing screws, but no terminals at all... cables would be joined with wire nuts / Marrettes.
when they installed my AC they used too big of a Marrette turns out that can cause the wire to heat up and burn ...a good 6 inches of wire to the motor was burnt to the point most of the plastic on the wire was melted off and other bits were charred , scary stuff since I live in the desert and the AC is on the roof. the AC company fixed it for free then a week later the motor died on us :( 500 later I asked if the AC being improperly installed could have caused the motor to die and they never got back to me.
Wire nuts are horrible ugly bodgy things. Wago connectors or standard terminal blocks are much neater.
@@ardoporkkropodra2474 Were the wires for the AC aluminum? This is a common problem with aluminum wire connections in Marrette wire nuts if the coil in the Marrette is copper and causes galvanic corrosion (and heating), or a copper wire is joined to aluminum in a Marrette. Both are bad news and cause HOT connections and charred insulation just like you describe.
Wago type connectors are rare in North America, though likely becoming more common. That type of connection has a rather bad reputation due to having a tendency to burn open under high load - at least as manifested on the push-in style terminations on the cheaper switches and outlets.
In Portugal we don't use ceiling roses at all, all loop connections are from one light switch box to the next one and so on. Also we wire the two way switches differently, on one switch we feed the live on the common connector and on the other switch the common connector to the light socket, the L1 of one switch links to L1 of the other and L2 to L2.
Canada does it more like Portugal, but we call it 3-way switching and the switches involved "3-way switches" and "4-way switches", referring to the part type
@@trucksoner same in the USA.
Same here in Spain
Which means you have to run a 3 conductor wire between the switches (L1, L2 and Neutral). If one switch is closer to the light and the other the the panel it makes sense. Usually less wire is need the UK way. (And a lot of UK code was standardized at a time when copper was very expensive)
Yeah, there are two "flavours" of two-way switch wiring, I think Clive went over them in another video. Either is acceptable here in AU.
One uses three cores as he described in this video.
The other works as you describe with a twin active connecting the L1/L2 terminals of the switches, active on the common of one and switched active on the common of the other.
Three-wire is a bit easier if you've decided to add two-way switching to an existing light circuit, and I personally think it's a bit neater since you can run a single twin-active down from the light fixture to one switch rather than having to run individual single cores to each switch separately. But electrically they're equivalent.
Over here is New Zealand our wall switch boxes are mainly made of plastic and is 45mm deep so on a 90mm frame stud can go back to back. we used to do it like you Clive but now its so easy we have like 15 lights on one circuit and the feed from the switchboard(fuses) goes to each wall switch in the same vicinity like bedroom(s) and bathroom and kitchen if they are all in the same area and another circuit for lounge hall entry and so forth, and each light or group of lights go to the wall switch. for 2ways over here the is so many ways on doing a 2way using a 3core or 2cores. lighting circuits are same run in 1mm^2 2core+E maximum 10A c-curve breaker 230v, our outer is cream or white and the inner conductors its red for phase black for neutral and insulated green/yellow for earth we had bare earth but not anymore its a pain working on old cables with bare earths. we cant sleeve the earth red or black only yellow/green.
I find these British wiring videos very interesting. I love seeing the difference between British and American wiring devices. I've been a subscriber for years. I'm just a handy homeowner and know how to do a few things the right way. I learned a lot about the 220v system by you. I thought it was "stupid" based purely on ignorance until you explained it in an older video. My opinion on the devices kinda remind me of Fisher-Price (an old American children's toy brand) but not in a bad way. It's a little hard to explain what I mean but like the modular part of it. Looking closely it all seems well thought out (not including the safety, training, and licensing feelings you have). Like how you just have all-in-one outlet and switch plates instead of outlets with separate wall plates like us here. Even like the more thought out "giant" plugs. It makes sense when you explained it in another video. I even love how they include the screws on the back. How are the design choices for fixtures? I get the sense its more limited than we have here in America if the majority of homes have that rose medallion. Any chance of you making a video in your local big box hardware store electrical aisle? I'd really love to see that. Are you interested in any American electrical products? I'd be happy to send you a few things. Keep up the great work! There is nothing you can do that would be too boring. I could listen to you ramble about anything. Haha.