DOES YOUR PROPERTY NEED AN ELECTRICAL REWIRE? - THE MAIN SIGNS TO LOOK FOR!
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- DOES YOUR PROPERTY NEED AN ELECTRICAL REWIRE? - THE MAIN SIGNS TO LOOK FOR!
Have you recently moved, or have you ever thought, does my property need a rewire? Rewiring a property can be a time consuming and expensive process so you want to know you're making the right decision. This episode of Artisan Electrics will go over some of the most obvious and telltale signs that you may need a rewire. It's always best practice to consult a qualified electrician on anything you're not sure about when checking property electrics.
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⏱️Timestamps
00:00 How Do You Know?
00:32 Consumer Unit
03:22 What To Check?
05:13 Light Fittings
06:53 Another Sign
08:08 Green Goo
09:05 Rewire?
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Do you think your property could need rewiring?
Yes, very likely and because of the nature of your work & that you are UA-cam Creators I was planning on asking you for a quote. Or do you only work for people who lose the boat race? 😭😭😭
Its on the cards 10 or 20 years down the line, but at our age that'll be someone else's problem. As it's a late 70s build and nobody has "messed" with the basic wiring since it was put in I'm pretty confident in the lifetime of the materials. I would have my garage rewired, though.
Definitely after watching this! Also I’ve just noticed that I only have one socket per room and after removing covers they are single back boxes with a single to double socket. Also in the joists there is a lot of twisted metal cable soldered together, assuming that’s the earth. Council house from mid to late 60s.
our house was built in 79 and the wiring in the wall sockets is the same as in this video...we have new switches though and light fixtures, also the grey coloured stufff over the wires and earthed.
can i ask can you tell by some pictures if our main electric switch board etc is ok, outside beside the front door we have a tall cupboard inside is a newer electric smart meter (its looped as it has 2 thick pipes at the bottom) and new gas meter. the elctric one is linked inside to our original metal faceplate which is a metal drop down flap behind this are a row of black switches which turns part of the house off.
does this sound all ok, i presume they would have fitted a new consumer switch unit at the time we had the smart meter fitted if we needed one?
My house will burn down before it gets rewired for sure...
Asking an electrician if your house needs re-wiring is like asking a barber if you need a hair cut 😂
🤑
I was going to say it's like going to KwikFit and saying do my shockers, brakes and exhaust look ok?
I would agree with this statement. I have an electrical qualification. I only got one sensible answer from 3 different electricians. The killer on the ring ccts. Is junction boxes. As older 1960's houses never had enough sockets. So they were often spurred of the ring with a junction box.
As an electrician I would disagree with this comment from my own personal experience. Due to the amount of work we all have as there is a huge shortage of qualified sparks. If I can get away with doing a test and it passes then great, but if I think it needs a rewire I will tell you, honesty is always the best policy and as an electrician we are obligated to be as honest as possible. Remember there is no such thing as a good electrician you are either an electrician or a bad electrician. Weird statement I know but if your a qualified spark and you take pride in what you do then you are an electrician
We had an inspection when we bought our 1979-built house. It was mentioned by the electrician that some 1970s/80s installations were done better than some new builds of today.
I once nearly felt bad tearing out an old and really well made consumer unit, that had stood untouched for the past 70 years. It was utterly prestine and an absolute work of art with every wire parralell and without a single kink. The unit looked like a modern pcb. But that doesn't help at all when its all crusty and falling apart as you touch it, and the diffuse code it followed back then was a nicely written note of "Don't accedently kill people"
100000000% agree as a 25 year experienced electrician
Did it come with RCD protection on each circuit?
Manufacturers recommended life span of PVC cable is 25 years. But in reality modern cable (and that from the 80s) if it’s not exposed to UV can last 40 - 70 years without issue.
Environmentally there was a discussion a few years ago as the cable was being thrown away but did not decompose very well or all.
If it’s unsafe then I get it, but there’s no need to replace it just for the sake of it.
Generally most older installations were wired really really well even back to the 1960s and late 50s when PVC cable first came out. They can be absolutely fine, generally The lash ups are the extra sockets extra lights extra points changes done by the homeowner or the ex-BT guy down the road. I would never rewire a property just because it’s red and black.
Those light switches were known as MK Ivory range. My flat in an old Victorian house was rewired in the 1970’s and had them too. Mainly rewired now.
Your explanation is ok as long as you explain to the customer that there's no safety issue, but if they want sockets moved they could do it now whilst empty. If the client was happy with the layout then you have no grounds to suggest any need to do it, unless there turned out to be IR issues.
Facts
Depends. Let say you have purchased a house that you intend to live in for a long time, and the wiring is from the 1970's. Doing a rewire now while it is empty before you move even though it strictly doesn't need one may well be the sensible/pragmatic option, over getting one done in 15 years time when it is a massive upheaval.
@@jonathanbuzzard1376 PVC wiring lasts forever no need
@@jonathaneastwood2927 except PVC wiring does not last forever often over ti e the plasticiser leaks out, it goes brittle you name it. Sure it lasts longer than rubber coated fire but forever it does not.. Further what was considered adequate 50 years ago in terms of sockets etc. is not sufficient today and you get to a point where you might as well just rewire.
Those 60's and 70's MK sockets were good products and will outlast all of this 'made in china' stuff you get now. The wiring / cabling that always bothers me is the fabric and lead sheathed where the insulation rots inside the lead all ready for a shock! if you grab hold of a live one! Whilstsafety has improved over the years I still feel that some of these old instalations were fitted well and the test of time proves that.
Very well said buddy 👍🏼
I completely agree with you
Mk 25 year guarantee was in fact many more years
@@timhall4355 they don’t make them like that anymore
@@timhall4355 I have some that where fitted in 1962 and still worked fine up until the house was re wired a few months ago
having watched a few electricians open up a consumer unit to look in to see what's what, that's the tidiest on arrival consumer unit I remember seeing, normally they are much more like the "rewired by a chimp" vid.
A rewire is fine if you are fully renovating anyway so having walls skimmed, carpets replaced etc but if not, it’s a fair upheaval to do if you are living there. The mess from chasing in plaster walls, pulling floorboards. It’s really something to be done while the owners are not living in the property. Often people buy somewhere and move in on completion day, having to rip up floorboards and chase into plaster walls while they are trying to live there is going to be difficult.
Some info to help others to date their electrics.
Green sleeving - pre 1977
Imperial sized t/e - changed early 1970s
PVC t/e with 1mm CPC, 1970 to 1980
No CPC in cable - pre 1966
No MPBCs - pre 1966
Twin core PVC no CPC - 1960s and back
Imperial sized conduit - early 1970s
BS3036 fuses - ceramic 1970s-1980s (seen some in early 1990s though?)
BS3036 fuses - porcelain - 1960 earlier
White switch wires - 1960s
VIR cable - twin core - early 1960s and earlier, singles with rubber cloth cover - 1950s-1960s
Double pole fusing - ended 1955
Lead covered, rubber insulated -1940s and earlier
No sockets in entire first floor 1930s
Brown round light switches - mid 1950s
Round pin sockets 1950s or earlier
Wooden pattresses etc - 1960 or earlier
Very useful. You didn't mention 'wiring in cavity' which my 1962 house had. Not sure when that became 'not allowed' - presumably sometime later in the 60s?
(I also had no CPC in the lighting circuits _and_ metal wall lamp fittings in the front room, which even I think is a bit dodgy!)
Also, is tinned+stranded wire an age clue? They presumably stopped tinning it at some point as it's been bare copper for ages. But perhaps that is a product choice and thus not an accurate ageing method?
Is there anyway of telling that your still running nineteenth & eighteenth century wiring??
@@xxwookey Seem to recall being told at college that copper was tinned in rubber insulated cables to stop the sulphur in the rubber attacking the copper. Could be wrong, 40+ years ago 🙂
Very interesting, thanks. Any idea when 3ph red white blue became red yellow blue? I've seen red white blue in old DB's, but not for a long long time. (I started my apprenticeship in 1977)
@@stephenmason8566 And why was white changed to yellow, anyway?
I can’t say I agree that an old fuse box means it needs a rewire. Just that it needs a new consumer unit. Our house had a crusty old box, and mostly red/black wire. We had the house tested no issues of note, so we just got a new modern consumer unit fitted.
I loved those original MK cooker outlet switches - they not only looked stylish, they sat almost flush with the wall and were really easy to clean.
I loved them too. I wanted to fit one in our first house back in the 70s, The house was built in the 30s and I spent hours chiselling what turned out to be engineering brick to install it! I certainly didn't want one of those newer ones that were the same size as a twin gang socket.
We now live in France where there is no requirement for a local isolator switch.
Dont be fooled by the cooker switch you can still buy them brand new from wholesalers!! i fitted one a few months back to replace one with no shutters
yes agree in your case with a empty property that's going to be gutted,in another scenario where a property is lived in and nicely decorated and has the same aged wiring as long as it tests up ok,then by all means fit a new board if needed and any remedial work,not forgetting when installed it was covered by the regs at that time .
It was always on the list as i have an old rewireable fuseboard from the orginal late 60's install. We have no where near enough sockets in the rooms and only 6 circuits for the entire house.
Having seen this and various other videos its being done once we get the garage ceiling tested for Asbestos
"If they changed the cover (of the switch) they would've changed the wiring" you must be getting some seriously clean jobs lol who the hell replaces wiring to change out a switch? Unless the wiring burned out or something nobody would change it, the client would probably accuse you of trying to scam them for more money if they caught you doing that lol
I was thinking surely he’s worded that wrong and means if the switch hasn’t been changed you know the wiring hasn’t been changed but if it’s a new switch then they may have changed wiring as you wouldn’t leave the old switch in. I’ve done 4 house renovations, in none of them has I changed the wiring when changing the switch haha.
Yeah he got that the wrong way round. What he should've said, was if they haven't upgraded the switch, they wouldn't have changed the wiring.
@@tobysherring1369 I've rewired rooms and put the retro switches back myself, even the 70s ceiling light. The room looked exactly the same as before when I was done, at least once the chases were painted over. Just minus the VIR singles in the walls (back in the 20s and early they didn't necessarily bother using conduit in Austria).
Edit: I did replace most of the sockets because the old ones were well past their prime, the contacts completely worn out and bent out of shape. Some were Siemens and perfectly fine.
@@Ragnar8504 the contacts in the old MK 13A outlets are very strong and reliable and everything seems much more solid - more and thicker brass, switch action is solid and probably copes way above 13A.
If they've not changed the fascias then there's a high chance the wiring has also not been changed either, as the switches would usually have been replaced at the same time.
None of this is prescriptive, these are indicators. Being clever with semantics doesn't help get the message across. People giving all the other possible 'scenarios' really aren't contributing as much as they think they are.
They won’t be your friends after you give them the price 🤣 love you jord love the channel
Extremely useful video. Just purchased a house and was struggling to decide whether to rewire or not. Thank you
Something to look out for in 70's housing is wall lights, the type where the bulb is contained in a shade along with the wiring coming out of the wall. The high temperature cooks the PVC and turns it brittle. If you're really lucky you can find two bare copper wires coming out of the wall and going into a connector block where all the insulation has fallen off.
Ooh thanks for this!! We live in just such a seventies house!
4:06 If they change the facia they changed the wiring, it is very easy to change sockets & light switches. But a pain in the ass to change all the wiring.
Modern PVC cables can last up to 70 years, provided that they were installed well and have not been altered and abused over the years. In general though the average life expectancy of house wiring is somewhere between 25 and 40 years. Good video thank you.
A very good walkthrough Jordan 👍
When my loval council contractors rewired my house, it supposedly passed the inspection.
Strange how my boiler installer a few years later discovered that the main earth cable wasn't connected to anything 🤔 did explain the random electrical shocks though.
There was one good thing about the large cooker units, you had space to work, now, it seems it is all about space saving, which would preclude me now from being a sparky as I have big fingers. Although I got out of house electrics early on because I developed claustrophobia working under very low floors, like, had to back out to turn my head, low.
I didn't like it when they changed the colours as they are nondescript. Now with LED technology it isn't a problem but when they first came out we didn't have LED torches and on some inspections you couldn't tell the phases apart, as in low light they all looked the same. That and cost was the reason SSE told them where to go as far as the Grid was concerned.
Bit misleading ...firstly the old MK range had lifetime guarantees unlike most if the cheap junk fitted today. Just because its original red black does not mean it needs replaced..that's what a megger determines on a test. If you truly want to know if the house needs rewired you pay for a full inspection. This is NOT a requirement on a vendor under current law. Its up to the buyer to get this done. As for skts at height..that will depend on what purpose the property was wired. I personally have wired countless homes for housing Associations and councils to confirm with disabled access. Lowered switches raised sockets. It's not a reason for a rewire. The only reasons for rewire are safety or circuit integrity..defo not aesthetics.
A pub i frequent in the main bar and lounge areas has the same type 1970-80s mk sockets with rounded surface boxes and surface pvc cable with the metal buckle clips The light switches are a mixture of the brown round dolly switches and the white plate switch like in your video.
The pubs been owned by the same family for a few generations It's like stepping back in time.
It is not a requirement to rewire a property when there’s green sludge.
When I bought my house, I found light connected with bell wire into the back of a socket. The electrician said that was the least of the issues he found when retiring it.
Nice job. I love this type of job electrician.
Nothing wrong at all with higher level sockets, that's a personal choice and maybe dependent upon the mobility of the occupant. One doesn't rewire based upon styles or fashion unless it suggests that the age of the installation is pre - pvc cabling with other issues associated. The green goo issue is obviously a problem and I believe happens with early PVC cables 1966-71 sort of time whereby there is a chemical reaction between the plasticisers and the copper cable.
Good info my friend 👍
We live in a 1970s house rented from a housing association, I went to change a socket front, and noticed we had 'PVC cancer' (Green Goo) I immediately put the socket face plate back on, and called our landlord to send a sparky, to whom I told about it when he turned up, he then condemned the whole house wiring (except for the kitchen, which had been rewired when the Air source water and central heating was installed about 2 years previous) So then the rest of the house was rewired. We got 3 extra twin sockets in each room of the house, as the original 1970s only had 1 or 2 singles in each room, and we had every sparky's worst nightmare....extension trailing leads EVERYWHERE!
My house was built in the 50s with VIR singles.
It was then rewired at some point in the late 00s (it's 17th edition post ammendment 2 bit pre ammendment 3)
But whoever did it then did it very much to a price.
Stuff has been added in surface mount boxes all over the place
Hence I'm planning to get it done in the not too distant future when I need to do some re-plastering anyway as I eventually want a solar system (when I can afford it) and my feel for the current system is that it will need doing for that
We bought a new house last year. It came with an EICR which passed.
Yet every plug and switch in the house had loose connections and my favourite was the exposed lighting connections in the loft on insulation in plain sight.
I guess not all EICR's are the same 😓
That house looks like a carbon copy of mine. I have the exact same switches, fuse board (the old style you showed) and sockets.
I'm more than likely going to put a heat pump, solar panels, batteries and (wet) underfloor heating in after the rewire is done. Is there anything you'd recommend doing/changing with these technologies in mind?
Technically it's fine but it needs a full rewire, what a surprise!
No doubt a plumber would say the house needed all new pipework. A roofer would say the roof needed a lot of work done. A kitchen and bathroom fitter would say the old kitchen and bathroom needed ripping out and a nice 'modern' kitchen and bathroom installing. Etc, Etc......
When the wires behind the fuse panel have lost all their insulation is usually a good sign. That’s what my house was like before being redone. Also still have fuses is probably another good sign haha. My house didn’t even have an earth anymore.
Socket heights on all builds coming under the Building Regulations now need to be at least 450mm above the floor level, all electricians should know this. the sockets as shown therefore comply with the latest regs
Electricians only ever consider their own trade requirements. To rewire any property with concealed cabling there will be a need to remove the redundant outlets and the sheathing/conduit and install new sheathing/conduit, both operations will involve taking plaster down back to the bare wall. Fishing new cables through old sheathing or through existing stud walls is not recommended. That then leaves the job of plaster making good, which in my experience for 90% of the time the repair looks like a patched up job. Invariably, to get an acceptable finish the whole wall will require a skim coat and thereafter new skirtings, architraves and the like and then redecoration. A re-wire is not to be taken lightly and the making good can get expensive.
That's bullshit. In an old victoriana house you don't need to rewire new sockets to 45cm. Do you lecture people about wheelchair accessibility as well? 😂😂😂
@@barnabybot I just stated what was in the Building Regs, which are the minimum standards for all new installations. The height requirement is to assist all those that can't bend to disconnect a plug that is no small number. If you can bend to pull out a plug enjoy it because there will be a time when you can't. As regards wheelchair access, apart from not disadvantaging those that have to use them, the able bodied benefit from the space that it generates since we have accepted the rabbit hutches that are now built, being generally 7/8ths of the proper size.
PS. I you are considering the electrics in an old Victorian house and you want to be traditional then leave the electrics out because they didn't have them and install gas lighting as an upgrade from the candles they would have used.
Lowering the outlets would probably drive a retire as in most places in wall splicing is not allowed. So the old boxes would have to stay with new ones below.
Hi there, thanks for this video. I think it should be standard that buyers get an electrical report for the property they intend to buy - what if the seller doesn't agree to pass on the report you mentioned at the beginning of the video, or no longer has it? How much would it cost to have someone like yourself inspect the electrics for a home buyer before deciding to purchase the house? thanks again!
There was probably an old rewireable board in there originally and it has been upgraded with the Hager dual RCD unit. Most of the installation is probably original as you said. Those sockets at 4.34 were made late 60s early 70s and there are still a lot of them around. They may be old but Mk were fantastic quality .Still good now but not like they were .Interesting video thanks for uploading it.
Yeah I've still got one of those sockets and a couple of the light switches left. Still working and testing fine.
@@xxwookey They were built to last definitely.
Good video as usual, but one comment, old colours does not mean it dates from the 1970s, old colours were only phased out in 2006 ish so could suggest the install was only 16~17 years old, well with the service life, if correctly installed. A better telltail here is to look at earth sleeving. If it's solid green like yours, then it is 1970's era, if it's green/yellow it's a bit newer.
Another one is looking for the snipped cpc's at the lights/switch's......never understood why they did that.
Harmonised colours came in on 1 April 2004. There was a two year overlap between old and new colours.
You could use either old or new colours until 31 March 2006, but you couldn't mix them.
After 1 April 2006, the use of the old colours was not permitted in new installations or when making changes.
The 14th Ed. was reprinted in metric in 1970. Green earth sleeving was compliant until 31 December 1977, after which green/ yellow was to be used. The sockets are not really at a ridiculous height - think of the modern day Part M!
No earthing in lighting indicates pre 14th Ed. I believe this edition was published October 1966. While I'm talking about the 14th Edition, when the 15th was introduced in 1981, there was great consternation because electricians could not get to grips with the new format. So it was agreed that the 14th Ed. could continue to be used until 31 December1984, with the 15th Ed. kicking in the next day.
To be honest some of the work done in the 70/80s is better than some of the work I see today ..but your right about the rewire , house is empty , decorating to be done , best get wiring and plumbing checked also …before you add your personal touch to it .. plus another point a new kitchen? Would need more sockets etc …
It’s not as important in a bungalow, but in normal row houses, being able to do all the infrastructure (be it electric, gas, water, hot water, central heating, or what have you) at once, while there is nothing glued over the floorboards, is *absolutely* an opportunity you should grab with both hands.
It's a good time to dump the gas too if it's got it. And indeed do a general retrofit to at least AECB standard. At the very least deal with the floors whilst it's empty as they are to painful (suspended) or messy (concrete) to do later.
What about the combi boiler in close proximity to the fuse board and all in a small cupboard. Thermal issues?
My house could do with a rewire, early 70's and hasn't really been touched since, got cartridge fuses, 3 for the whole house, no RCD apart from the electric shower which is on its own mini distribution board. Main issue is the one socket per room apart from kitchen and lounge, which have two each.
That said I doubt anything installed today will last the 50 years that the early 70's stuff mostly has.
That property doesn't need rewiring unless it has IR issues, however like you say if it's being majorly altered I'd also recommend.
If it’s empty now and they’re planning to stay there for decades, the time to do it is definitely now. If they’re definitely planning to move on to a different house in a couple of years, it will still work as is for that period - unless major alterations are required anyway.
I know from experience that the very very last thing you want is to do a rewire while you are living somewhere.
I am with most ot the commentors, yes rewire it if you going to do a full renovation. Otherwise, its a waste of money. you could extend the sockets down if needed. Otherwsie, no re-wire required here. Just swap of the sockets and switches out to make sure the conacts are frsh and you'll have some nice looking bakelite.
Have often wondered about that green "goo" but at least I know now.
I work for the council and the spec for bungalows is 1000mm off the floor for all switches and sockets
Ooh thank you, is there any good ways of hiding or disguising sockets??
Technically safe and no need to rewire, but like you say it's an empty property and it's also a bungalow so you may as well just rewire. I don't think the new homeowners would want extension leads everywhere due to lack of sockets!
Just because the property was originally wired in the 70s and and has old sockets and switches doesn't mean it needs rewiring,if the cable has not been tampered with and has been in the same position and hasn't had any overloads on the cables then after a couple of tests it will prove that it is still in good order.
Jordan, watch out for that screwdriver close to your eye! Keep safe!
This house as you say does not need rewiring. Yes it is not new but equally it is compliant. It is so easy to use the expression old, old fashioned etc. The real question is are there signs of degradation of the conductors from the results of the insulation testing. Reality is the rewire for me would be justified by the massive task of relocation of wires, sockets etc. You get to a points where it just makes sense. Old fashioned doesn’t mean beyond serviceable life. Those terms would put me of .
I'd be interested to know our of curiosity what are the oldest original sockets, lamp fittings and associated wiring still in use that electricitions have come across in recent years?
What about the supply head /DNO fuse, type of supply and metering ??
I always ask how many previous-owners, if it’s had 6 owners then you have x 6 DIY bodgerds installing joint boxes buried in the walls and under floors this comes to light during the rewire.
Secondly if your putting new kitchens bathrooms and tiled or wooden floor down you must remove the old wiring otherwise it will come back to bite you in the future.
Always get your roof gutters electrical plumbing and drains spot on.
Price wise for medium 3 bed semi and garage consisting of DB cooker shower and a mix of 42 skt and lights, garage sub main DB. £5,400 I estimate 140 hours at £30ph plus materials.
Far to cheap - but fair play if you can do the spec for this price ! I’d have to sub it out - just wouldn’t be worth my time .
Unless the customer is fitting downlights in the bedroom , I would still recommend keeping pendant lights in their near window position for modesty .
The socket height from the floor must surely be dictated on whether the customer is able bodied in has an impairment .
Same consideration also must apply to switch plates and other signal or control outlets .
Love the posts . Keep up the good work .
It seems like a bad idea to let the current resident’s current ability status be the determining factor for things like that. Much better to make it all accessible, because a) visitors exist b) the current resident won’t be the resident for the life of the electrical installation c) the current resident’s ability status will change over time as well.
@@JasperJanssen very good points. Is there any useful ways of hiding sockets behind panels etc?
Existing wiring 10 years left in it? As best I could see, it was all pvc t&e, and there isn't a specified lifespan on that ? Replacing sockets/switches, they are tired yes, but wiring, no.
Is there a situation where you would recommend _against_ rewiring a property? When I eventually jump onto the property ladder I want wired ethernet in my house so would be inclined to rip all thee electrical wiring out and re-do it while the Cat6 gets chased in too) regardless of its actual age (unless it was done a few months before moving in, maybe).
Its a question of cost, a rewire is an expensive expedition. Can be £4k upwards to have an electrician do the whole job (Vs a labourer and have an electrician just do the cable work - some sparks wont do this), plus the cost of making good the plaster and redecoration. Most of the time there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with old cable, all tests are within tolerance. Similar to your roof, its 50 years old but lets in no water - a roofer recommends it replaced (he would) but does it need it.... no. As this guy says there is a common sense point in time to rewire, if you are gutting the place then you are investing for the next 50 years so you avoid ripping out all the renovations you are doing in a decades time. And you get the plug sockets in the exact place you want and need them.
Personally i would route data cables in "replaceable" locations such as voids, underfloor, or in capping. The cable is not as durable as twin and earth (thinner cable) and needs replacing more often. Cat 7 is on its way. If doing a rewire then of course routing the data at the same time (as well as audio cable) is sensible.
According to all this, my house needs rewiring.
Fuse box is 1950's Wylex, old VIR replaced 20 years ago but some lights have no earth, silver multistrand T&E for sockets, 1970's cooker socket with dodgy earth, conservatory sockets on 1mm T&E and a messy junction box under the stairs, all the above is working as of 2022!
hehe
How do wires "have life in them" ? Arent they basically forever lasting ? (Except for that plasticizer failure)
Of course there is damage from bending the wires many times, but not to an extent of removing them.
Pretty much mirrors my council house i even have the green goo but obviously the council wont bother rewiring. It does have a brand new board with the independent afdd/rcbos with the fault lights. Im guessing yhey tested everything when they replaced the biard last year so even though some green goo its probably not the end of the world. If ive seen it ill clean up the connection with a new socket.
Interesting theory about green goo. I have seen it here in Australia and the industry has many theories about it. Some claim its moisture breaking down the copper, others that its rodent inhibitor that was present in the cables leaching out, some claim its the result of electrolysis caused by a poor earthing system. Your theory of insulation reacting with the copper is a new one.
The green from the oxidation of the copper makes sense & that it must come from the insulation breaking down in some way.
The green goo is degraded di-isoctyl phthalate, and is considered to result from a chemical reaction between the pvc plasticiser and the copper conductor. The temperature performance of pvc was uprated by including an anti oxidant into the pvc compound, this encouraged the unwanted production of green goo.
@@GretatheEvilGremlin cool thanks that makes perfect sense! Goes off to duckduck di-isoctyl phthalate...
If it wasn’t for the extensive wiring modifications then it would definitely not require a re wire. This pvc wiring could have decades left in it. Yes the cables plasticity may degrade and the cable becomes stiffer with time but providing the IR tests are good the cables are perfectly OK and are likely to remain so.
Depends, if there is over 100mm loft installation covering the existing cables in the loft then technical it could. Look at ref method 101, also ring final circuits have to carry 20amps per leg if protected by a 32 amp mcb.
I would probably recommend a rewire too in this circumstance. Especially as there are full renovations taking place. That way the wiring will last their life time and something you don’t have to worry about
Exactly! IR test will provide the answer in under 5 mins
Love the prodding with a screwdriver - even if most of the shaft is insulated........
Have watched 29 seconds almost certainly you will say it needs a re wire. Looking after your industry.
good shout
So, has Artisan Electric had any situations where their house or apt. wiring was inadequate for charging their on its way EV / PHEV vehicle ? = upgrades while installing the charger unit.
No need, as in a few years only millionaires will be able to afford electricity _(or gas)._
Curious to know if the quality of copper in older cable from the 70's is better than todays?
Usually it’s the wiring accessories, like those old MK sockets and switches. Proper brass contacts unlike some of the crap plated metal contacts today.
I doubt it, cable quality is something that has definately improved. Still have no idea why the UK is installing solid core cabling and not isulating earting conductors the whole length of the cable.
Had a rewire done last year, the stuff that was in there was original 1920's wiring with a lovely three wire fuses bakelite box, though only one fuse was actually used. Mind you, technically there was nothing wrong with it, just the home insurance company refused to insure us :-)
Blimey. It had a good innings though!
@@ItzD3fW1sH I strongly suspect some of the wiring in the place I live in is still original from 1914. VIR singles in conduit. The really old bits only supply a few lights so I haven't bothered rewiring them. We do rewire bits every time we redecorate a room. IR tested at >1000 MΩ.
@@Ragnar8504 fascinating stuff. Bet the original installers didn't anticipate it to still be in use over a century later!
Good point about house insurance & fire risk
@@ItzD3fW1sH Probably not! Landlord EICRs became a legal requirement in 2008 so slowly really old wiring is being replaced as places go on the market but there's still a lot of ancient stuff left in Austria. Back in the 90s you could still see plenty of non-earthed sockets (i.e. pre-1960 installations).
i guess it depend what you want to do with the property , if you just need to make sure its safe for now so thy can give it a lick of paint and new carpets then to save up for a complete revamp after you saved up to do it then thy need a rewire then
Philip Smith ...
"A lick of paint"... good grief people should be using qualified, professional interior designers. DIY interior design should be banned as a major mental health _(and taste)_ hazard.
If that was an old person and the ir was ok would you still recommend a rewire? With or without R
I think he made it pretty clear he wouldn't recommend a rewire if the house was occupied and no major changes planned. And I whole-heartedly agree with that.
My 150w sun lamp in the bathroom caused the VIR singles in my timber framed 3036 board to melt. Do I need a rewire?
🤣🤣🤣
It might need upgraded to 90C wire. Only the segment by the light needs updated so could add junction box if rest of wiring is ok.
@@gordonn4915 okay great. I think it needs an earth. The nearest earth I can take is off the lead cable that supplies the sockets. So I'm guessing I just solder a 1.5mm earth onto the lead sheathing and take it to the light.
Now I know why lights are lined up like that. That's how the one is in the bedroom of my 1970s flat.
Worth pointing out, cable from the 70s can be perfectly sound and test out perfectly. Pvc metric cable without green goo is a pass from me. Even pvc imperial cable can test perfectly. A lot of 60s tower blocks are still on original imperial conduit wiring. Tested every 5 years, no issues.
These old cables will last a lot longer than the modern stuff with some new being chinese! Cables that haven't see the light of day are probably in good nick except for rubber and cloth insulation types.
There is still live terminals behind a pendant depending on how it’s been wired , so I wouldn’t say it’s safe to unscrew ?
He did say to turn off the circuit at the consumer unit
9:49 do you also have a wall-chaser, like Tomo does?
Swap the pendant. Test the circuit impedances etc. If ok no re wire !!!
Assuming the wiring isn’t damaged does the wiring deteriorate ? If it doesn’t does it have a shelf life !
As an electrician, i can't stress how many times people has "Renovated" their new house. Only to get electrical issues and having to tear it all down cause the wiring is even as old as pre-war, pre-plastic era. With crusty and dried out woven fabric insulation, inside grounded steel conduits. (How they did it back in the day here)
And when the wires get that old and crusty, they wont bend easily so trying to get new wires through those old rusted out conduits? nah the whole place has to be torn down.
Looking at switches and sockets doesn't necessarily give you any idea about the wiring. I've changed all of them in my house but of course left the wiring alone.
same here...
I have an exceptionally old fuse board.. house yes most likely needs a rewire and consumer unit.. room for negotiation help me i help u?
How much would you typically be looking at to re wire an average 2 bed house? Ballpark figure?
Totally depends on your location and spec you require
Also what the situation would be,
Ie lived in or empty
But you’d be looking at 3k +
@@gc2electricalsolutions973 thanks for that. Unfortunately that would put it out of the question for me. I know that’s only a ballpark but realistically I couldn’t afford anything in that region. Appreciate the answer though!
How can you say it needs rewiring without doing a single test?
The WIRE only needs changing if it's not fit for purpose. It being old colours or whatever is irrelevant.
Do you agree that a HOME REPORT which is needed to sell a property should include a EICR ? after all the electrical system is a major part of the build and just as important as all other aspects. Esp as we see more solar/GSHP/battery walls etc
I certainly agree when I discovered that our energy report that gave this place a very high score was in fact self-certified with no test data whatsoever!
No. Because replying on someone else's mate/brother/father who happens to do electrics to issue an EICR to rely on to pay several hundred thousands of pounds on a property is a recipe for disaster. Get your own survey, and own EICR with your own trusted electrician who works for you.
No needless and will just cause more problems than it solves.
As you say it's easy to run all the wiring through the loft, but unless you gasket all the wiring penetrations you will add a great deal of air leakage. Do you gasket wiring penetrations of the airtightness layer (normally the ceiling into the loft) as a matter of course? You really should if you don't already.
However if they were instead thermally & air isolate the loft but fit a hepa heat exchanging air handler, it would improve the internal air quality massively & improve heat loss without needing to worry about penetration of the external air barrier.
Do you watch Matt Risinger channel on UA-cam?
@@annakissed3226 I do watch Mr Risinger and he's very interesting, (but I don't always agree with him). I'm not sure I follow the logic of your suggestion. IMHO you _always_ need to worry about random holes in the airtightness layer so that you can have designed ventilation through holes you actually know about. Ideally just two of them for the MVHR unit (which may be what you mean by 'hepa heat exchanging air handler', which is probably what Americans call them. (I'm British). Even if the MVHR unit is in the loft (which it often is in UK retrofits) you still need to avoid random air leaks to/from the loft, and seal all penetrations. The airtightness layer can be at roof level instead in which case holes into the loft are not through the airtightness boundary, and indeed that's generally a better design, but less common as it's more expensive.
@@xxwookey Sorry for my poor use of the Queens English, your are completely correct in all these things, I was just explaining things poorly. For example the MVHR is what I think. I was trying to describe: something that interleaves the input & output pipes so that the heat is retained in the building by the heat in the exit pipe transfering to the colder input pipe having first been drawn into the building by an electric pump though a HEPA filter??
@@annakissed3226 Exactly - that is indeed what is usually called an MVHR (and sometimes MHRV) Mechanical Ventilation and Heat Recovery. But they only work when the building airtightness is reasonably good (ie. builders plumbers and electricians haven't left/made loads of holes everywhere). Better than 3 air-changes-per-hour (at 50 pascals) is the typical rule of thumb.
UK building regs are terrible on this front and still only require 10 (m3/hour.m2@50pa) in brand new building, which is hopelessly leaky. Passivehouse is 0.6ach.
I was expecting to see an Insulation resistance test
Lmao did they just chuck the old stove on the roadside and expect someone to pick it for scrap?
Is it a thing in the UK?
Yeah about 2billion scrap men in the uk, one of them will be round to collect it in no time.
Yep works round here. In fact if you leave metal stuff out front without a sign it's pretty likely to disappear in a few days even if you didn't want it to (mutter).
They can smell it. You put it out in the evening, it's gone next day. You obviously don't appreciate the value of scap metal but just keep digging for your fresh iron ore deposits... 'lmao'
In the UK you can typically request the local council to do two bulky item pickups a year. We had a drainage overflow causing flooding of our garage with sewage & the local city council emptied out our garage for us & took it all away for free. It was the county council who was responsible for the poor maintenance that lead to the flooding
Gypos
did the 2 in the background vanish into this air at 15 seconds
Insulation reacting with copper?
Had no idea polymers can react with metals...
I cannot disagree with you more: waist-height sockets are an absolute boon. I grew up in a house (built just after my birth) with all sockets at wait height and it was wonderful. I think this is a matter of taste and in your position, I would not disparage such placement. My father managed the building of the house and was on a wiring standards committee.
at 7:30 whats the reason for both sets of colours in that socket - red and black aswell as blue. Not an electrician, just curious. Cheers
It's very common for cables with more than 2 live cores to come in three-phase colours. The old three-phase colours were red/yellow/blue, with black as neutral. They are now brown/black/grey, with blue as neutral. So a 3-core (plus CPC) cable would have been red/yellow/blue, and a 4-core (plus CPC) cable would have been red/yellow/blue/black.
The accessory shown at 7:30 is a lightswitch not a socket and appears to be part of a 2 way switching setup. So you have a "twin and earth" cable coming from the light, and a "three and earth cable" going to the other switch.
"three and earth" cable uses the three-phase colours (even though it would be unusual for it to actually be used for three phase). The old 3 phase colours were red, yellow and blue.
The cores, particularly the black one should ideally be marked with tape/sleeving but on older installations it's common to find lighting wiring without such marking.
That said, while this particular video doesn't show it, it's very common to find a mix of old and new colours where wiring has been extended/modified.
In Australia there is no 5 year or so required inspection of a domestic or I assume commercial property. Is that because Australian electricians do such a good job first off there is no need for any future inspection :) I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter of compulsory inspection.
This next law/legislation had to be masterminded by some electricians association. It varies by state. In Victoria the only legal electrical work a non electrician, basically the home owner is permitted to do is change a light bulb. The penalty for doing other electrical work ranges from a series of fines to a gaol sentence.
However, with complete in difference the big hardware, Home Depot type stores have aisles of electrical components, cables etc., and one can often see the weekend warrior filling up their cart with junction boxes, wall switches, cabling, capping and so on. Somehow I think the law is a toothless tiger in regard to the legislation.
In the electrician programs on UA-cam from the UK and the US there is often DIY advice on electrical work or commenting "this is a DIY job". Does that mean people can undertake electrical work in England without repercussion from the law?
For a Domestic setting we have Part P of the building regs. It covers certain notifiable works to building control which has to be done by a competent electrician, these are: New circuit installation, works within a special location (bathrooms wet rooms) and a Distribution board change. Any other works such as additions to circuits, replacing accessories etc comes under non notifiable work so can be done by the homeowner, but it is recommended to be done by an electrician so a minor works cert can be issued.
Usually domestic installations are given 10 years on an EICR report, however it may be reduced if when testing recommendations are found, maybe a lowish insulation resistance is found not enough to fail but nearing the limit.
This would probably have been a private rental. Regulation was introduced from April 1st 2021, that all private lets need to achieve a satisfactory EICR, and every 5 years thereafter.
Only for rentals, as a landlord we are required to have electrical safety every 5 years (some exceptions) and gas every year and hold the issue certificates. No such regulation for houses that you own and live in yourself.
Yeah Australia is an uptight nanny state at times.
You forgot to mention lead sheafed cabling.
Hope you guys put in all new network cabling and many more outlets and EV charger or two. Combo AFDD/RCBOs/SPD etc. Maybe a sponsor or two to help offset costs.
Does good 70s/80s PVC cable actually have a life-time issue? Has anyone study this? I don't see why it's going to start failing in the next 10 years? Where I see green-goo its always just affecting a particular batch of cable, the rest is fine.
Yes, I believe it’s 25 years
@@paullyons4624 But quite a lot clearly lasts much longer than 25 years. Some of my 60-year old 1962 wiring is fine (but some is not - the inner insulation has embrittled so anything you touch needs replacing). I suspect most 1970-onward PVC wiring is good for 50 years or so, but there will no doubt be dodgy batches that don't make it that long. Some people here presumably have quite good data on how long wiring actually lasts in practice.
@@xxwookey 1970 plus 50 years equals...
@@richardgregory4640 Indeed. From what we could see the stuff in this house still seems to be OK. Mr Artisan reckon another 10 years (not sure where he picked that number from). Like I say, what I'd like is data from people with known examples of longevity success or failure.
Wiring is usual guaranteed by the manufacturer for 20 years, however I just tested a property with wiring 52 years old & it’s absolutely fine. But there are lots of factors that you may consider a rewire. The property Jordan is looking at, I would say yes rewire as it is to be renovated. Lack of sockets, how much are the repairs, does it need upgraded bonds, does it need a new consumer unit, new accessories are there any faults. It may prudent to rewire especially if the property is empty. Also on a property from the 70’s, you’ll never know what DIYers have done over the years hidden in the fabric of the building.
I had this recently where an electrician looked at house and told the people it was going TO BURN DOWN, he said it was dangerous , the lady could not sleep after she heard this , i went to look and test it wasent up to date but no way way dangerous ,FRIGHT TACTICS TO RIP THE PEOPLE OFF, what the guy didnt know the ladys daughter was a soliciter WRONG THING TO DO , easy to convince people and worry them with a bit of scare mongering , do your job properly !!!
Green sleeving in the CPC dates the wiring as pre 1977. Green / Yellow was then introduced.
Usually goes along with the old 2.5 T&E with the 1.0mm cpc ring final. I’ve always noted it but not coded it unless protected by a 3036 fuse then C2.
Note to self during eicr. If green sleeving present, estimated age of installation is 50 years.
@@davey6024 Heavily painted wood chip wall paper is another clue 🕵️♀️ 😅
@@davey6024 Heavily painted wood chip wall paper is another clue 🕵️♀️ 😅
@@davey6024 Heavily painted wood chip wall paper is another clue 🕵️♀️ 😅
5:55 Nevermind the electric wiring - this looks like damp walls to me... Will be expensive to refurbish that house